subtlety

[abstract cosmos]

i love assa

[cyan crystal]

A mage in rogue's clothing

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/getout-gif-16327023334064302194

[swift tinsel]

I just dislike their apex a lot

[twin quartz]

Look at the cheese build sin is running to parse sin and go nuts lol

[swift tinsel]

The kb stabbing spree is cool but that’s it

[twin quartz]

SDmaxxing

[abstract cosmos]

for raid ?

[swift tinsel]

I have many issues with how implacable works with the kit esp in keys

[twin quartz]

On dragons, sorry

[hexed wave]

whats the cheese build lol, def need to learn assa for raid/m+

[abstract cosmos]

i had a assa on mythic pug hes was blasting then i looked and he was cheesing sudden demise the lucky dog

its like a nuke

[swift tinsel]

I’d really like to play outlaw on Lura

With how I have my ui set up for opportunity stacks it’d probably be pretty easy

[tulip viper]

if sectec is 18 sec cd, and we blades for 20, why do we hold until 8 sec left for 2nd dance?

[twin quartz]

To fit in your second sectech

[tulip viper]

do we not just fire dance/sectec when both are off cd at 18 seconds in or an i sleepy and brain lagged

[hazy breach]

You want dance during blades

[tulip viper]

so 2nd sectec is not paired with dance, its just as soon as its up during 2nd dance in blade window

[twin quartz]

Yup, it’s better in that instance and helps alignment later on

[tulip viper]

so every blade cd is a paired dance sectec, and then a 2nd dance at 8 sec remain, then a 2nd sectec 2 sec remaining soon as its up, then resynch them back outsdie blade cd?

[swift tinsel]

yep

the only time you're not pressing them together is the 2nd dance in blades

otherwise you're hitting dance+sectech

[tulip viper]

which we can only do with 800 haste, (700 with guidon)

got it

apprecaite the time guys!

[hollow compass]

it's still necessary to guidon like .5 sec before your blades right? i'm just still seeing ppl macro-ing them together in logs

[hazy breach]

Before dance

[cyan crystal]

Deepening Shadows could potentially not update for up to a second to my understanding

Even 0.5 is hedging, no?

[hexed wave]

so guidon > sb > sd+sectec macro> then that second sectec 8sec when sb falls but after that we dont use that sb+sectec macro right

i guess u wont be able to if either one isnt up ha

[cyan crystal]

Macroing shadow blades/shadow dance/sectech implies you're going to be at max combo points before pressing the macro. You'd guidon up to a second before that as well.

You should be fine to use it on your next blades windows

Outside of disorienting strikes pre pull cheese, is there any way to guarantee a coup during your first blades/shadow dance window? Maybe it's a red herring/too feelycraft, but having a coup in your first window on burst moments/add spawns feels really important

[hazy breach]

Besides that no

You get 3 procs always, and have a decent chance for them to proc twice, as well as a fairly high chance of having your passive autos reset the cd

But yeah with pre disorienting you can even get 2x coups during your first blades sometimes

Which is big bonk

[cyan crystal]

Yep, that aligns with my understanding as well, but it feels shitty when you are sitting on 3 escalating blades stacks and the burst moment passes by the second dance/sec tech window

[hazy breach]

Just dont get unlucky ig

[west vessel]

is there a list of which dungeons you should take numbing/atrophic

[scenic relic]

Someone smarter than me tell me why my black powder damage is so low

[somber sun]

we dont have info on your stats, situation you were in

also its not supposed to do that much damage

[scenic relic]

I thought it was supposed to be higher than ST?

[swift tinsel]

we have no context

[scenic relic]

thats a full skyreach dungeon

[somber sun]

numbing always

expect in maisara

where you take anti heal one

give me a sec

[hazy breach]

Wound competes with instant

Not with numbing

[swift tinsel]

idk if pulls were really small

or you weren't pressing bp in favor of evisc

[hazy breach]

So you can have wound+numbing up at the same time

But yes generally id say use numbing for keys

[steel zinc]

How much is premed again % wise? On lura premed feels great playing for timings etc.

[hazy breach]

~0.5% or something

depends a bit

[steel zinc]

Like on Lura just feels better to get up to speed fast and into cds

But maybe thats just me your progging it too eleem or (or got it down)?

[lucid jackal]

It shouldnt matter on lura

Just do slow opener, its fine

CDs on that fight are shit with or without premed

and premed is just a dps loss

[steel zinc]

but with premed I got the 3 sec better timings

[stoic anchor]

Guys how can we make sub great again in keys. We're getting surpaced by filthy assa players and pirates

[lucid jackal]

3 sec better timings doesn't split the difference

[steel zinc]

like for the crystal pad xD

[lucid jackal]

U do 0 damage to crystals

even with perfect CDs

[steel zinc]

mhh ok

Forever your still doing the video for it?

ty

[hexed wave]

thanks for all the tips today, was practicing the new macros and its cool

new change

[lucid jackal]

Yes proba will pload on sunday..?

Or monday

Been playing D4 so

[stoic anchor]

[hexed wave]

omg a youtube video on openings or anyhing sub would be clutch now. everything is so dry

[steel zinc]

ok ty

[stoic anchor]

Sanctuary does need to be saved

In all fairness

I put the difficulty lvl4 , no xp, died on 1st boss, quit the game

Ez 80 euros down the drain

I'll lower the difficulty when i give it another shot

Yo, let's talk 18+ keys as sub

I feel like outlaw>assa>sub in 18+ keys. Frick. Can u even compete as sub? I mean can you time a 20 key?

[lucid jackal]

????/

[somber sun]

just pray for a buff bro

[sterile mango]

Simple yes or no because I know it's probably asked to death. But is the Premed DPS loss a bug or just intended mechanics.

[stoic anchor]

When u make a character u have 4 lvls of difficulty available to u, the rest are locked. I went 4/4 available and died at the first hatred hidra or smtg on that boat

[somber sun]

its a bug

[stoic anchor]

It's literally 1st boss with Lorath on the boat 💀

[lucid jackal]

bro thats ur own damn fault then tf

[somber sun]

I know it might sound crazy but a dev was playing the game and got jumped by a rogue and directly nerfed that sht

explains the state of the class rn

[sterile mango]

Thanks. I can never tell what's me not understanding a mechanic vs. blizzard fucking something up

[lucid jackal]

Intended

Its just an unfortunate interaction between premed, the apex, and the rotten

The rotten wants your generators to be boosted by the apex

[somber sun]

cant be intended if its an unfortunate interaction

[lucid jackal]

A premed generator doesn't "expend shadow technique stacks"

It just gives you max

Its not bugged, it's just the wording, working exactly as intended

However, that does end up causing it to be a loss

and hopefully it gets fixed in the next patch

[hazy breach]

There 0% chance that its going to get fixed unless its in a decently sized patch

[lucid jackal]

^

It might get changed in a .7 or a .1

[echo tiger]

am i doing something wrong or is the raid starter really slow for sub rogue till he gets full cp?

[lucid jackal]

Its slow yeah

[valid ocean]

🐌

[echo tiger]

are there any tips to get full cp faster?

[hazy breach]

!opener

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[echo tiger]

okay ty

[somber sun]

yeah expect 2-3 sec opener

[swift tinsel]

doesn't the fuu opener lose you a dance global bc you're hitting dance strike sectech

or rather, make fitting 2nd sectech a lil spicier without lust

[tidal solstice]

should rogues be on first downstairs or 2nd for chim?

feel like being on first down misses a few seconds of blades

[random mason]

on hc 2nd group felt better

on mythic I'm always G1

🙁

[tidal solstice]

yeh my first log had me get two dispels that healers didnt clear so i just sat there twiddling my thumbs twice

also wtf is cloak not clearing the dispel

seems it works like, half the damn time

[random mason]

you could hold blades to obliterate adds but i don't think it's worth

[tidal solstice]

no its not im like 240k then get sent down and waste 2-3 sec of buffs its maddening

think i was 300k+ on last pull

[random mason]

but with being G1 i did 7m horror dmg(bc i went down twice)

[tidal solstice]

we have 3 hunters but all surv. 3 mages and 2 dks but somehow interrupts were a huge problem. 🤷‍♂️

[cold citrus]

always 2nd, CDs should line up perfectly

[hard trellis]

why is dance not going off when i press it

some fking bug or what

[somber sun]

[drifting ether]

2nd with no premed, I’m pretty if you go premed and go 1st, you’ll get rank 1 parse
I normally go 2nd tho

[surreal orbit]

boys

im learning

!log Heroic Chimaerus - 72 parse - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jCMRGbKJ23TvZBXd?fight=3&type=damage-done&source=50 im getting better, fight time probably not ideal? any glaring mistakes?

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts clone cannot proc while Premeditation is up, as you are not expending any Shadow Technique stacks. Which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[surreal orbit]

Is this fixed?

[sullen hare]

nope lol

[surreal orbit]

premed is outright a dps loss?

im seeing people use it on high parses

[west tide]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[sullen hare]

very minor but yes a dps loss

[manic glen]

Oh we fucken love being the only dagger user on m vorasius

[vale sphinx]

can u track super charger stacks? I assume not

[alpine wraith]

yea it is the blue combopoints on your bar

[lilac stag]

Depending on your UI you won’t see them until you have CPs

[vale sphinx]

👍 I was still trying to track the buff like last expac >.> , trying Sub for prog as an Outlaw main kek

[lilac stag]

it’s the same

[shell vector]

So this might be stupid, on mythic dragons are you guys using BP as your main finisher pretty much the whole time to cleave dragons?

[clever garden]

i just had a warlock tell me there's a bug with lock+sub in keys regarding pulling mobs 40 yards or less away, can someone verify

[strange chasm]

what macro are you guys using for lura for kicks if ur boss3

[somber sun]

not really your job

to kick the adds, just prepare for the aoe burst window after

[lilac stag]

Yes. #subtlety-faq for builder spenders

[alpine wraith]

everyone kinda has to kick on mythic

[somber sun]

his kick is useless compared to what other classes provide during that interrupt phase

like sure he can kick one time and maybe aoe blind ( not sure if it works ) and that's all

better to focus his attention on prepping next rotation

but maybe im wrong

[alpine wraith]

yea you are you need to kick in an order dont worry it is not explained that well

he is likely 3 or 4 kick on third star

[somber sun]

dude its fine, I was just saying

[tribal blade]

this guy trying to argue classic is harder than progging dimmy because LFR exists

is actually hurting my brain

[exotic steeple]

They are ragebaiting

If they really believe what theyre typing, its pointless to argue with them, you will get mentally ill

How likely is it, that sub rogue will receive another buff this season? Im about to let my sub run out

[short radish]

wouldnt hold your sub

[spice island]

I'm thinking about rolling another toon for fun, I am new to the game and was curious what other classes fellow sub players enjoy

[exotic steeple]

Yes thought so lol

[jade oasis]

classic players live in a fantasy land

[somber sun]

im this close to go play tank

[exotic steeple]

No spec such as sub rogue, go transmog/mount farming this season

[peak ice]

Demon hunter has similar flavour imo

[somber sun]

mhm

if you cant beat it join it ?

id better go farm SL stuff

than play dh

[peak ice]

Devourer is pretty boring though ngl

[somber sun]

ofc it is

dh frostbolts spam

" its fun bro trust "

[exotic steeple]

If you can play outlaw, play it or u might wanna learn the spec, ur more likely to get into keys than you are with sub

[alpine wraith]

hardest part of classic was maintaining the 200 player guild

we had 8 raid teams

and shuffled people around often

there were always people in 1 step or another of some attunement

[somber sun]

was thinking of making a toon just for the sake of learning it

[alpine wraith]

and well even then playing at 15 fps was a luxury

[somber sun]

then like swap back to main with the gear

[exotic steeple]

Ah yes the gear grind, forget what i said, just go devourer instead lmao

[spice island]

I was kinda curious about arms warrior, seems like it might be fun to always have something to press but idk

[alpine wraith]

arms is fun

[somber sun]

nah man I will swap xd

sht is too hard when you swap like that instantly

for me at least

[peak ice]

I don’t think sub is in that bad of a place tbh, kinda middle of the pack

[exotic steeple]

Bottom 6 middle for u?

We are bad in both raid and m+

[spice island]

I'm not even unhappy with sub I was just kinda interested to see what other rogues play as alts

[somber sun]

just wait until people in your runs are geared and know what buttons to ACTUALLY press

and you will come back

yeah sub kinda sucks

[exotic steeple]

I never had this much fun with a spec, i really like what blizz did there to sub rogue. But we are not in a good spot, i got my 3,4k this season and rhats it for me, not going 0,1%

[tribal blade]

i feel like sub is better in raid than the charts show, paladins fight and people degening to do max egg dmg sacrificing overall dam on beloren kills our postition

[exotic steeple]

We are definietly playable, but why take sub over outlaw e.g on any boss

[peak ice]

Is this wrong?

[spice island]

Why is outlaw better?

[tribal blade]

nah no way

like on birb sub is way better than outlaw

and on crown

[somber sun]

sustained damage

I think

[exotic steeple]

Only bird and saladbar no?

[spice island]

Gotcha

[exotic steeple]

Crown?

Really

[tribal blade]

sub is one of the best specs on crown

best melee on crown

[exotic steeple]

Oh damn, okay ill take that back tho

[vagrant sinew]

uh dk

[bleak night]

he said melee

[tribal blade]

chart says otherwise

not by much

but still

[peak ice]

People dooming about this class

[bleak night]

always

it is tradition

[vagrant sinew]

yeah sub does more dmg in p1 LOL

[tribal blade]

well overall sub is not in a stellar position, but it's better than the charts show in raid

in M+ sub needs help

they could literally just buff nimble and BP and then fix sub for both raid and keys

[peak ice]

Yea defo needs a little help

Not unplayable though

[spice island]

I think the Cloud Cover story arc was... Interesting

[exotic steeple]

Atleast we got a playable spec tho for m+, im not playing it tho

[vagrant sinew]

unlucky were not mage which means youre more than likely gonna see 0 sub changes this season

[spice island]

It might as well just be an extra buff at this point, considering you don't even need to be in the cloud anymore

[tribal blade]

yeah and that consistency to make the dps check in P1 is not trivial

[somber sun]

something tells me that all devs play casters

sickening to find rogue in every fkin game so weak

[warm marlin]

udk best melee on crown

sub close second tho

[tribal blade]

fair enough

[peak ice]

Gross unplayable only 2nd best melee yuck

[tribal blade]

i think the place you can say sub is kinda unplayable is high keys

[warm marlin]

sub is good in raid

[tribal blade]

definitely still doable with sub, but compared to the other 2

[warm marlin]

strong even

doesnt feel great in keys though

[tribal blade]

yeah it's def strong in raid

ironically we would be in a perfect spot if they hadn't have nerfed nimble and BP

literally just revert that nerf

and sub is chilling

[alpine wraith]

pp nerf hit super hard

apart from bp and nimble yea we got krangled up

[tribal blade]

oh i forgot PP got nerfed too yeah

[blazing yew]

ok, the cloud cover smoke kind of sucks on cosmo, hard to see puddles on the ground from adds. anything i can do to help?

[subtle gazelle]

would love to also know this

completely obscuring all the void droplet puddles is super fun extra mechanic

[lucid jackal]

Lower particle density

[subtle gazelle]

does it have to be on low? and particle density is only our own spells/random environment stuff?

[west tide]

guys im kinda scared and want to play sub on lura

[wispy star]

Since when you dont have to be in the cloud anymore?

[azure mauve]

@lucid jackal does feint affect star daamge in intermission?

like the 5 lines around you

[lucid jackal]

It does not

[azure mauve]

well thats a rip

[lucid jackal]

without elus anyway ofc

Just use vial

And leech enchants

[spice island]

You can just drop the cloud, walk out, and once the buff expires it refreshes on its own

[alpine wraith]

you can drop cover far away and step to boss we have a funny bug

[wispy star]

Crazy, that's new to me, i was always standing in the cloud to maintain fazed. So basically once in the cloud, i can walk out and still apply fazed for 10 seconds?

[alpine wraith]

yea but it is because they kinda krangled it

in a good way

[spice island]

Yeah basically the buff will just refresh on its own regardless of what you do/where you are when the cloud dies

At least as far as I can tell, I've been futzing around and yeah you can dip in and out, leave at the last second, right now it's just a buff with an annoying aoe effect lol

[spice island]

Wasn't sure if it was intended behavior or not lol

[tribal blade]

we pray it's intended

[dreamy wedge]

My droptimizer seems to think Vers is way better then haste : /
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iwPS4xjQv9r93qWnupQp42

Any idea why?

[mystic juniper]

If I pop my cloud cover and we move the boss. DO I have to dip back into the cloud to restart my 10 seconds of the buff before it goes away? Or am I understanding the ability wrong?

[strange chasm]

i thought blizzard fixed this

[short radish]

why would you think that

is it because they said "No corners cut, no compromises in terms of what we're delivering and no sacrifices to quality."

[golden thunder]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sullen hare]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[cedar sapphire]

is the approx 700 haste with oils applied or completely unbuffed

[tribal blade]

fully buffed

[odd sandal]

So sick of tanks not moving last boss of AA to the doorway

[dreamy wedge]

It still likes Vers 😭
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6CZP8xrNhwWx8VrbH4kXTD

[tribal blade]

no idea tbh

not necessarily a bad thing

[dreamy wedge]

Makes no sense when I look at this tho:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q475mvn9nA3H2VkQd7WV2U
(I only checked this because of the droptimizer)

[plush roost]

It can like a lil bit of versa if youre completely 0

[foggy estuary]

Yo any gamers have tips for myth chim? Im sadly group 1 so i have the option to eithrr blades on pull or wait to blow on big add. This is huge dps loss and uptime because i lose lust, no? Any tips when to save blades for that fight?

[short radish]

send on pull

do not hold

[plush roost]

Being group 1 is good because u can actually use your second blades on the boss

And not lose half of it traveling back when adds die insta

Just send on pull dont try to add pad

Kill boss

Pmuch able to press on cd, only argument is to hold until after intermission since that blades can be low value

Depends on raids dps and whatnot

[tribal blade]

more and more it feels like sending blades on adds on chim is a waste

[foggy estuary]

Yes but the soak makes me miss half the uptime on cloud bomb:/

Ok ill try sending it from the get go

The pulls we did and i didnt send on the big add, my RL noticed add dying super slow tho

And charge combo points on intermission or no need to min max?

[plush roost]

No just dance and kill caster adds

[plush roost]

Strike vanish strike backstab cds is a 3 second opener and shouldnt lose uptime

[foggy estuary]

Thanks bros appreciated ❤️😶‍🌫️🥷

[plush roost]

If u have a warlock gate, use that to get on adds quicker

Can cancel knockup with step or gate

[foggy estuary]

I shadowstep on boss then run to big add and tricks the small with a shuristorm on small adds

[foggy estuary]

Shadowstep as well

And normally it lines up with a final full combo evis or coup on chimp as soon as i shadowstep 😆

[lilac stag]

You don’t lose uptime. Just cast it and you get all 20 seconds

[foggy estuary]

Dont i have to step in even last minute to refresh?

Bruh lol i was so ticked by that kek thanks for clarifying this

[lilac stag]

Go test it. Cast it and immediately mice out. Watch your buffs

[foggy estuary]

Now i can do this

Mawnifest guidon (龍花山海風)
Parse powerfully (電火空星月)
Bring pride to raidleader (虎雲雷川森)
Spread genetic information (夢雪天光石)

[jade oasis]

simming feels so bad on this spec

my sim says having 480 haste is best

xd

[foggy estuary]

Its because dad with 3 kids slower than robot😂

[tribal blade]

mine doesn't seem to do this

[jade oasis]

ik why

but

it sucks not having more accurate sims

[foggy estuary]

How come this is an issue btw? Isnt this just a matter of updating a threshold value in backend?

Somewhere there is a function to calc haste, and there is an optimal max value preset, no?

[tribal blade]

does it only happen in actual content because it's 100% not working like that for me on the dummies in silvermoon

i leave the cloud insta and immediately get the buff counting down

[warm marlin]

it refreshes right at the last second

as the cloud expires

[tribal blade]

OH ok

leme see

[foggy estuary]

So i member correctly about the refresh

[tribal blade]

LOL holy shit

fire

ok that's actually amazing

[foggy estuary]

Because i read its better to run back to cloud and refresh than do a hit

Bigger dam for bigger pp

[tribal blade]

i've been trying to big brain my cloud usage this whole time

when i can literally just rip it whenever

the way it should be

[foggy estuary]

Yes smell the farty cloud for bigger dam 😆

Blizz really hates rogues 🙃

[tribal blade]

making a melee stand in 1 spot for 10 secs is a long ass time

[foggy estuary]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

i hope it's intended to work that way

[foggy estuary]

The boss will often change position due to tank swaps

[tribal blade]

not even that

[foggy estuary]

And on m+ good luck 🙃

[tribal blade]

some fights require a shitton of movement, esp in keys

[foggy estuary]

Yep

Anything less than 14 feels cancer now because tanks dont plant or chainpull without consideration of group kek

[dusky yacht]

14 feels like cancer to me too tbh

[tribal blade]

w/e the name of the ability mages had where they had to stand in a rune to do dmg

blizz took that out of the game

because it's toxic af

[foggy estuary]

But all these, and sub rogue still best spec to play fuck you bliz rogue bis

The way they designed the cds made rogue very tank dependant to any high end content

Like if the tank is not considerate u not parsing end of

[tribal blade]

a lot of specs are tank dependent to do dmg

only spec that isn't really would be outlaw

unless the tank does a lot of small pulls

[dusky yacht]

I’m fine with if the tank is moving, but it depends on the movement itself

[tribal blade]

forgot outlaw doesn't do good cleave anymore

[dire ravine]

Does the buff duration not last for 10 seconds as well when you leave the cloud?

[tribal blade]

yeah it extends at the last second regardless of being in the cloud or not

[dusky yacht]

If he moves into a position on the exact opposite side of aoe circle and then not further back so I can’t shadowstep to target, it’s legit so annoying

[foggy estuary]

No brother i dont think that. I have unholy dk and dh and thats not the case for those classes at least not as much impactful as for rogue.

[tribal blade]

i meant more so if the tank is doing bad pulls everyone will be doing lower dmg

[foggy estuary]

You said it, you need to stay in a relative small area for a very long time, and the game simply is not much allowing that due to pacing. Its logical that we ate dependent on tank planting

[foggy estuary]

Tabk can move and not make bad pulls, one doesnt equal the other, although planting is basic tanking. But given that there is timer, this is variable

[silver heath]

Myth Pbox or Guidon for keys?

[foggy estuary]

Ok i reviewed some pulls and maybe i can time my shadowstep to chimairus once we get the group1 soak and land on boss right before cloud expires to refresh. I have to delay blades on pull for a couple seconds tho. Maybe this is good tech? 👀

Unless due to realm phasing cloud will not be syncd and not give me the damage refresh.

[foggy estuary]

I recentlly swapped to pbox and is much better for me but sim it/try it.

[tribal blade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh-vqsBm-FQ @short radish mages not giga meta for 1 season and it's the end of the world

[tribal blade]

i think you're missing the fact that we've been talking about cloud cover is refreshing itself regardless of being in the cloud or not

so you get full uptime of cloud cover no matter what

[foggy estuary]

Im not on pc to confirm but im very interested in this

[upper narwhal]

When they fixed the energy cost for cloud cover they also made it refresh automatically and just never mentioned it

[foggy estuary]

^

Ok amazing

This is prolly bug but its actually a feature

[tribal blade]

i'm hoping it's intentional

[brisk onyx]

This has been the case ever since the energy cost bug was fixed, and many people have confirmed this

[tribal blade]

so cloud cover isn't a super toxic talent to play

[brisk onyx]

Have you noticed that TFD's refresh mechanism is experiencing a strange delay again? I'm fairly certain that in 11.2 or sometime before, TFD would correctly start refreshing after leaving combat, but now it's starting to have a random delay again

[desert whale]

Soon fresh lvl 90, what is best way to gear up, still delves and weekly ?

[tribal blade]

yeah it's always been like that

[foggy estuary]

I think rit sites are faster

More hc drops if im correct

[tribal blade]

at least i've noticed TFD for me has always been very unreliable on when it starts the countdown

[desert whale]

Oh didnt even know about ritual sites

[brisk onyx]

ok I've decided to discard it

[tribal blade]

yeah i do too

because it tilts the f out of me lol

also not getting a refresh by like 1 second

because of either getting pulled in combat or the timer starting super late

yeah i'm not dealing with it

[vale pine]

poor mages, rly seeing no play (15+ keys, ranged dps)

[tribal blade]

LOL TRUEEE

[vale pine]

to put it in contrast

melee dps

same metrics

or general

mage is the more or less 5th most played

with 5 mythic+ slots

meanwhile, priest, warrior and rogue are in a bad place

[tribal blade]

the good thing is rogue is at least capable of doing rank 1 keys

[vale pine]

the problem might be that mage is not meta

[tribal blade]

right now zac is on the front page of timed keys

[vale pine]

mage is part of the top 100 keys

[tribal blade]

but yeah i'm sure frost is capable 100%

[vale pine]

rogue is also only zac

[tribal blade]

LOL yup

he's bucking the curve

[vale pine]

if we look at key level 20

you see how mage, hunter, priest and rogue is not present

its a balancing and design issue

DK is absurdly broken, to the point i rly question how this keeps happening every season

[tribal blade]

yeah

[vale pine]

DH is the hero class, which i could explain

[tribal blade]

4th season in a row where DK is irreplacable

[vale pine]

and tank wise only 2 tanks are actually played

paladin tank is a pain to play in keys because it can't handle the damage income well

[tribal blade]

i'm happy for brew though

[vale pine]

from what i hear

[tribal blade]

they're finally meta

last time brew was meta for keys was S2 SL

[vale pine]

and warrier might fall into the same problem

blood dk will be back s2

[short radish]

DK is also a hero class 🙂

[vale pine]

so i am not worried about these

[short radish]

average mage 🤡

[vale pine]

DK is absurdly broken for 2 xpacs now

[tribal blade]

YESSIR

[desert whale]

Thats normal since we have seassonal format where you can play new class every few months, so ppl just go what is good

[vale pine]

which seems like a shortcomming in the tuning department

its similar to what i am somewhat loud about

[tribal blade]

DK survivability needs to be looked into

it's too much

[vale pine]

how subtlety gets constantly pushed down when its good at one thing

and niches moved off to other specs or classes

[tribal blade]

they could get significantly nerfed defensive wise and still be the tankiest dps

[vale pine]

highlights to me a certain bias in game development

[vale pine]

its not only that

[short radish]

i dont understand how its still this strong

from s1 tww

until now

[vale pine]

one of our tanks played dk dps first time

[tribal blade]

someone at blizz loves DK must be

[vale pine]

and after doing so poorly in 2 keys, finally decided to only surface level read up what he needs to do

suddenly performing competitive to a dps main

[tribal blade]

lol damn

[desert whale]

They should be tanky cuz plate gear, class fantasy and kit

[vale pine]

he did not min/max or had any long learning curve

neither was his gear optimized

so ye

DK is def. something the design team keeps pushing

[tribal blade]

nah

not to the extent they are currently

it's absolutely insane

[vale pine]

it is funny

[vale pine]

because we have people in here justifying how subtlety needed the nerfs to cleave/aoe

[tribal blade]

IDIOTS

we've reached the point in the tier where we can now see sub didn't need those nerfs

we'd be in a perfect spot had those nerfs not gone through to PP/BP and nimble

[vale pine]

i mean, we had the discussion

its just perspective

[tribal blade]

tuning on M0s was wild

[median steppe]

Imagine tuning on M0s LMAO.

[woeful wren]

We got an 8% nerf in pre patch for zero

[median steppe]

Rogue never had good credit since a LONG time.

[vale pine]

e.g. there was a discussion in assassiantion around BF

i did not follow up on the discussion further, but the main point was

that assassiantion absolutely needs BF, while subtlety does not need it

[tribal blade]

that's a crazy statement

because nimble was literally designed to fix sub's cleave issue

and now that we've lost it

we've gone back to horrible cleave again

[vale pine]

exactly

its just common to have diffrent points of view

[tribal blade]

i think people forget how bad sub was at cleave before nimble was introduced

[vale pine]

e.g. the nimble flurry change was argued as a "everything better" initially, while i had concerns about tuning

and i understand why

the pre nerfed version did simplify the rotation while keeping prio damage similar

[woeful wren]

Issue with nimble flurry is it takes power from our ST value

U can't have both rly

[vale pine]

gowever, i had to wait till now to confirm my theory

that this might lead to aoe nerfs

which cripples our aoe and cleave ability

[tribal blade]

but then blizz didn't give anything to compensate for losing it

[vale pine]

which is exactly what happened

[tribal blade]

this is kinda like losing combo all over again

[vale pine]

the process also reduced much of our prio damage

and made the rotation functionally worse

i am not saying "i was correct" (i don't care, i want subtlety to be good)

rather, i had this concern when i saw the change

[tribal blade]

i understand them wanting to make builder/finisher use clearer to understand

but they went about it the wrong way

[woeful wren]

I had hope they were fixing DS for us. But even then they want us pressing powder to cleave with mark

[vale pine]

I understand the intention about changes

but i like to argue around them rather than stating them, and justifying them without any critique/discussion

to be fair, if tuning was high

we probably wouldn't have this discussion

[nocturne tendon]

give shuriken combo back

[tribal blade]

my belief is if sub is gonna have this bad cleave we should be topping aoe and st

[vale pine]

we are in a sense in the situation assassiantion was

which did lead to a massive rework, with a lot of talent updates for it

i somehow don't think this will happen for subtlety

just going from intuition

for what its worth, due to having burst

we still stay relevant in lower keys

[tribal blade]

good thing performance in low keys is important smile

[vale pine]

performance in trivial content ye

something most people rly care about

[nocturne tendon]

having actual funnel in higher keys would be nice

if the cleave ship has sailed

[vale pine]

especially when doing keys, which are absolutely not impacted by high key metas

[steel zinc]

I think it's funny they nerfed us 8% before the patch went live just to buff us then over these 8%

[vale pine]

It seems the nerfs ended up based on pre raid performance

in m0

[tribal blade]

wonder if they'll realize yet again that having terrible cleave is a massive problem in this game

[spare oar]

So next Expansion we do a secret Deal: no one is allowed to blast in m0?

[dusky yacht]

WE ARE SO BACK

[spare oar]

Or whats the Solution

[vale pine]

if we, even in this community have very diffrent opinions on it

^^

hard to say

[nocturne tendon]

surely with this elaborate talent system there's a way to switch between damage profiles based on the content you're doing

[dusky yacht]

I mean should be like this

If we don't have cleave: then our ST is top tier

That's a kind of balance

[vale pine]

hot take maybe

but having a deficit was always a problem

especially if its not a narrow niche but something you need often

e.g. if subtlety cleave should be bad

it should whipe the floor in prio damage

and aoe

yet, assassiantion seems to do that, while doing similar in st and better in cleave

[alpine wraith]

i wonder even if they fix all DS bugs

if sub would have decent prio

[dusky yacht]

I mean how do they even get themselves into these impossible situations

[alpine wraith]

idk if sec tech and other things are enough with singular

i mean you just needed to see what happened to MM

or arcane

arcane got nerfed by 60%

into another 40%

just in case

[dusky yacht]

I saw a Dev DH's damage in a high key on a video and I was thinking to myself what the hell is this and how is it balanced when I'm barely above them in ST without cleave

[alpine wraith]

someone though about playing it

also dev dh is supposed to be hard to kinda go hard and get the several collapsing stars

but if you see the gameplay

[nocturne tendon]

lack of vision really, doesn't take long to figure out sub rn is way undercooked cause no one put any thought into how it's supposed to play

[alpine wraith]

it does not seem like 1/7 of what surrender was

[tribal blade]

it's purposeful

they're a new spec

[alpine wraith]

as someone who had to play that abomination

[tribal blade]

so they need to be busted

[dusky yacht]

I disagree with that approach completely, it just leads to fotm rerolling and endless cycles of disappointment for other classes

DKs got introduced in wotlk, they were busted then, they are busted now

So it's also just not true

[peak ice]

Gotta sell the dlc bruh

[tribal blade]

DKs went through a period of being not great

[dusky yacht]

Hasn't the wow playerbase only gone down since the old days? This is 100% part of the reason

[nocturne tendon]

pattern has been the same with DH when it came out in legion, then the different flavors of evoker, DK just went full circle

[tribal blade]

also every single new spec/class that's ever been introduced to wow has been busted except dev evoker

[peak ice]

I remember running from blue geared dks in PvP

[dusky yacht]

I got carpal tunnel from fighting holydin/DKs in 2v2 as arms warrior/resto druid, we would play them even though we knew it would be a 45 min draw, out of sheer spite

They were the worst players with the most boosted ratings

[nocturne tendon]

tbh i just want sub to get an extra button, or some kind of mechanic to play around

[dusky yacht]

I just want SS to hit one additional target and for premed to get changed or fixed or both

Or we get a raid buff or something idk

[nocturne tendon]

premed has no business being as janky as it is right now yeah

[tribal blade]

raid buff is the biggest thing by far

[vale pine]

they need to design over 30 specs, but want certain to stand out

[peak ice]

I just don’t see how .5% damage is like anything

[nocturne tendon]

im not even sure if sub qualifies as "designed" atm

[dusky yacht]

That's what I don't get, why? You know, like what is the purpose behind this

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/liquids-max-talks-rogue-raid-buff-situation/2296187 while we're on the topic of raid buffs hit my latest forum post with a like if you can

[short radish]

this is why whenever someone is like "man i really want xyz new class/spec"

why? blizzard can't even balance what they currently have

[blissful ivy]

Ss double targets... that sounds so good

[nocturne tendon]

do we even have a class dev

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[nocturne tendon]

i remember people saying we don't

[tribal blade]

iirc there is no dedicated devs for any class

[vale pine]

well, as stupid as it sounds

but the new dh spec is very similar to subtlety design wise (burst damage heavy)

and also has with void/shadow a similar theme

[short radish]

nice

fuck blizzard

[nocturne tendon]

we just cosplay as shadowy assassins, our main damage comes from naruto and france

[vale pine]

i mean its not new

[mental kettle]

hey guys, quick q, how do you sim differnt dps pots

in midnight

[vale pine]

e.g. warlock pre legion had a very similar transform mechanic to DH, which was just removed when they introduced dh

[nocturne tendon]

go to raidbots and pick different pots

[vale pine]

smoke bomb was also removed as raid utility from rogue, while darkness was added, which was very similar to it

same time

shifting niches and fantasies around can happen, and we see it on rogue too

[peak ice]

Rip combat rogue

[vale pine]

e.g. subtlety was the mobile rogues spec, which made sense theme wise

[peak ice]

You are missed

[nocturne tendon]

this has always perplexed me, like in what world was smoke bomb such an insane/cheesable raid cd that they had to nuke it from pve

[tribal blade]

rogue has had a lot of stuff taken away in general

[vale pine]

now all 3 rogue specs are equally mobile

subtlety was the burst spec

now sin and subtlety are somewhat similar, and burst isn't even that insane

stealth related mechanics ended up core design on subtlety

now its part of all 3 rogue specs

funnel was a subtlety niche

now its kind of an assassiantion one

[nocturne tendon]

it's only an assassination niche because sub's funnel is practically non-existent

[vale pine]

a lot of things are just designed that way

e.g. aoe on subtlety could very well also scale up with more targets

yet it does not

[tribal blade]

could be cool if storm had some secondary thing

[vale pine]

and its not only between rogue specs

[nocturne tendon]

kinda what happens when stuff isn't looked at individually

[vale pine]

e.g. subtlety was the first to have 90 sec cooldown windows

[nocturne tendon]

but then you'd imagine there wouldn't be such insane gaps

[tribal blade]

where if you hit more than max CP with storm you generate something else

[vale pine]

which dk's and others now also have

rogue used to be able to cheese things

[nocturne tendon]

i don't really undestand why sub funnel shouldn't exist rn tbh

[vale pine]

which was removed on many parts

while other classes still can or even got new tools to do so

a very simple thing is skyreach

unless i missremember

you could vanish the grap on the last boss

[nocturne tendon]

still can

[vale pine]

ohh

maybe i timed it badly

[nocturne tendon]

plenty of cheesy stuff you can do as rogue in skyreach still

[vale pine]

but it seemed to not work last time i did a key

[nocturne tendon]

cloak/evasion quills, cheese rays on 2nd boss with feint, cloak a whole tornado phase on 1st boss etc

[tribal blade]

the funny thing is rogue combat drop is supposed to be our thing and it's not even the best

hunter can feign death far more frequently

i guess hunter feign has been a thing for a long time too

[vale pine]

one thing i rly like in skyreach

[nocturne tendon]

feign death is basically vanish as far as targeted spells go

[vale pine]

is shroud speed for the "run" section

it is harder to execute than other skips/cheeses

[tight fjord]

Where is everybody

[nocturne tendon]

you mean the eagles after 3rd boss?

[tribal blade]

playing sin/outlaw

[nocturne tendon]

inb4 30 sin parses and 20 outlaw

[tribal blade]

prob yeah lol

rogue is super low play rate

[vale pine]

vanish is very unreliable as a boss reset now

[tribal blade]

rogue is just very unpopular

[tribal blade]

yeah i've been banned by my raid team resetting bosses in raid

[tight fjord]

Only 104 total all rogue specs finish that key

[vale pine]

subtlety isn't played that much in high keys because of the aoe/cleave tuning

[nocturne tendon]

i've mained rogue since a wee lad, it's too late for low popularity and questionable design choices to stop me

[tribal blade]

basically anyone maining rogue right now is a die hard rogue

that's the only way you can stay on the class

when it's been treated this badly

[nocturne tendon]

welp at least no meta chasers sullying the discord

[vale pine]

think the main problem rn is that neither of the rogue spec is performing exceptionally

outlaw might be closest to that currently

[tribal blade]

sub is arguably very decent in raid if you ignore metrics

but not exceptional

this wouldn't be such a problem if we had a real raid buff

[nocturne tendon]

honestly i don't even care about exceptional, just slightly more fun would be nice

or useful yeah

[tribal blade]

all i want right now is a real raid buff

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[spice island]

Where my Ranid/Croak players at?

[earnest crane]

i m not sure if its good overall for AA 16 or not

[radiant swift]

lol saw u on a log randomly from a guild that was recruiting

[earnest crane]

😄

[radiant swift]

the name is actualy fitting ngl

[earnest crane]

yeap

i m gonna start the marine part

want change to outlaw but dont have proper gear

[abstract cosmos]

is 679 haste okay ? with guidon trinket

[earnest crane]

actually i haave 600 haste without guidon

and it feels ok

[empty bobcat]

what ilvl? doing similar on 273

[earnest crane]

280

[empty bobcat]

but not +16

[earnest crane]

nah i m doing 18s currently

done 2 18s and all 17s

[empty bobcat]

our group not good enough

how much did it log for, just curious

bc I am getting way lower log dps

[earnest crane]

my best log is better

153

[empty bobcat]

it logs more than it shows in dmg meter?

when I do 150 in details its probably around 125 on warcraftlogs

[earnest crane]

nah mostly it loged for me lower

[empty bobcat]

yeah ok

[earnest crane]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/66798092?zone=47

u can check them here

AA is 153k best log

[empty bobcat]

thats gotta be 180k then in details?

[earnest crane]

some tiimes i do 160k and in logs it shows 130k

thats weired

i dont know the reason

[empty bobcat]

ppl told me its because logs take whole key time

and details only combat time

[earnest crane]

Ah i see

[empty bobcat]

so if you chain pull your details should be closer to what u log for

[earnest crane]

ok ok got it u must be in combat whole time to get better log

[empty bobcat]

yeah just no downtime in dps

pulling mobs that are almost dead to next packs and taking them to bosses etc

[earnest crane]

i dropped mastry from crafted gear and went on cirit haste i feel the dps is lot better now

[empty bobcat]

really? mastery should be better in keys

[earnest crane]

i have 63 with mastery flask

[empty bobcat]

I keep pushing crit/mastery now and maintain 700 haste

[earnest crane]

but i have 35% cirit

my burst is arround 800k now with BL at the big pulls

it was arround 600 before

[empty bobcat]

puzzle box?

[earnest crane]

yea

[empty bobcat]

ah ok

I play guidon

[desert whale]

To be competitive in wow you have to sacrifice class you love sometimes😆

[earnest crane]

i m not gonna play a demon femboy or an undead paladin

[empty bobcat]

probably thats why crit/haste is ahead for you I guess

[earnest crane]

i have 664 haste and 35 cirit 63% mastery with mastery flask

[empty bobcat]

let me check

[earnest crane]

i mostly play with shamy that gives me a bit mastery

[empty bobcat]

yeah we have sham heal too

[earnest crane]

my overall feels better with crafted gear on cirit haste

and i can reroll to other specs too with this stats

cuz kinda all 3 rogues want cirit haste

[empty bobcat]

29% crit 20% haste 55% mastery

[earnest crane]

i asume u r item lvl is low

[empty bobcat]

yeah 272 🙂

char is only 2 weeks old

[earnest crane]

u can craft

[empty bobcat]

yeah got belt and wrist in the pipeline xD

[earnest crane]

i guess u can craft 5 items

[empty bobcat]

I have 3 already

[earnest crane]

and 2 weapon

[empty bobcat]

2 weapons plus back

[earnest crane]

i lost my 2 first week vault on bad choices and sacreficed hero and myth crest for crafting on same slot

did many things wrong

i could be 285 now

[dusky yacht]

Probably not

[earnest crane]

in best case i could but i could be 283 atleast

[empty bobcat]

ok its 63 mast with flask

[dusky yacht]

I really don't think so, I'm 282 and didn't make any of those mistakes

[earnest crane]

and u took all of ur vault with myth track ?

[dusky yacht]

Pretty much yeah

Could've gotten luckier here and there admittedly but that won't make 3 ilvls diff

[outer sentinel]

why 20% haste? what is your char siming??

[vale pine]

raid buff, cleave damage and improved gameplay

haste breakpoints arn't that great

and other shenanigans

[shut jay]

they'll reveal about 12 changes to udk and at best give us 2% BP damage

[abstract cosmos]

@vale pine is 679 haste with guidon ok ?

[vale pine]

yes#

[abstract cosmos]

thx

:0

[vale pine]

might be on the lower side

but ~680 is where you should be able to get the extra attack in

[dusky yacht]

Somebody here said 684 bare minimum and I'd prefer going from 687 to about 700 for comfort

[vale pine]

its just more error prone

you could just socket haste

[abstract cosmos]

i tried changing gear recrafted dagger using a haste weapon i just dont know what else to do to get around 700

wait my

cloak is mastery

could change that

[vale osprey]

Really helpful to know what flat number you're at rather than % btw

Chonky character sheet really good for that

[abstract cosmos]

im sitting on 679 haste but if i get cape ill be on 700

[vale osprey]

Is that with weapon oils on?

[abstract cosmos]

yes

with crit pot

[spare oar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale osprey]

Yeah then cloak is a good shout

[steady sail]

Is there a difference between the first and second supercharge point? Is the first finisher used when you have 2 points more powerful than the second one when you have 1 point left?

[sweet moss]

guys is double 289 dagger better and then getting another arcaniweave lining ?

[vale osprey]

Ask mr robot but you just want to use hunt + 1 arcano

offhand kinda stinker

[steel zinc]

offhand is w/e dmg

[abstract cosmos]

dont craft offhand its ur lowest dps

[steel zinc]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[vale osprey]

?? We literally do craft OH

[steel zinc]

no

mainhand is everything

[vale osprey]

Read his question

is DOUBLE 289 dagger, I'm assuming that means he has a 289 mainhand already

[sweet moss]

yeah i do

i have 289 main hand and 285 hunt off hand

was just wondering if i got 289 drop if that’s better than hunt off hand and use a different embelish

[steel zinc]

yes and still offhand does not matter

[sweet moss]

kk

[steel zinc]

you put offhand emb on it thats it

the only thing that it improves are stats

[sweet moss]

so the embelish is big?

[vale pine]

embellishments in general are low impact

[steel zinc]

yes

[vale pine]

but you want to have 2 of them

[vale osprey]

It's decent, but offhand just sucks

[sweet moss]

yeah fuu can u answer my question instead

[vale osprey]

So the extra 4 ilvl in OH isn't going to outweigh the embelish dam

[steel zinc]

lol

[vale pine]

mainhand weapon is your highest damage slot, this is why its usually used early in the season

while then moved to offhand as its one of the weakest slots

[sweet moss]

yeah ofc i understand this

[vale pine]

you want embellishments on weak slots later in a tier

because crafted gear has lowe item level

but embellishment in general isn't "huge" in terms of impact

[sweet moss]

so offhand is even weaker than wrist/belt/cloak ect

[vale pine]

e.g. if you look for weapon upgrades

[vale osprey]

Not necessarily "weaker", if you're really curious just run a sim with the various options

[vale pine]

weapon/trinkets

you see offhand slot is the worse in terms of impact

mainhand comes out as a 1.5% gain

while offhand has a small 0.3-0.4% one

it is not nothing, but comparably low

the stat budget is just low on many slots

back, bracers, belt, feet are some of the typically worse ones

offhand slot isn't that good either

but offhand weapon also does reduced damage due to dual wielding

[sweet moss]

yeah, i’m basically asking if you have 289 every slot, which 2 slots are best for craft

is off hand in that

[vale pine]

which is why its so low in impact

(also isn't used in damage calculations for spells for us)

[azure thicket]

i got dc'd on our salhadaar kill

im now the proud owner of a 0 parse

[vale pine]

congratulations

[vale pine]

but understandable

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/venture-brothers-dr-henry-kilinger-proud-papa-gif-19046994

[abstract cosmos]

for dragons hc no point going aoe right ?

[vale pine]

a salad bar is not as exciting, you wanted something with more protein, should have been a grill party instead of a salad bar

[vale pine]

you can usually pad decently well on adds if you are fast

so can go with a little aoe

[abstract cosmos]

i mean i have 2 boomies in group xd

[vale pine]

but depends on your group

haha

[vale osprey]

If only there were a bis list somewhere

[azure thicket]

at least my chimaerus looks cute and im not gonna get womped as a boost purchaser

[abstract cosmos]

ppl are weird if they call u that if u do bad

[vale pine]

midnight introduced diffrent insults

could ask people if they use the obr

[abstract cosmos]

LOL

[azure thicket]

the wuh

[abstract cosmos]

i mean rogue compared to other specs is such a big diff in dmg

its unreal

[earnest crane]

they even call this bad too

[vale pine]

F

[earnest crane]

just Give Sub Rogue Stiletto Staccato

Atleast

i want it back right now

or flag

thats better

[abstract cosmos]

fix premed

ez

[azure thicket]

yeh i could see tho theres 10 orbs and you have blades up

[abstract cosmos]

how broken is dev is that my friend is 270 and he nearly out dps the whole guild with 279 gear

[earnest crane]

Collapsing Star enjoyer

[abstract cosmos]

nah there rlly bad in dps ovs so i think they need another buff

ofc

[earnest crane]

yea maybe give them Nuclear Bombs

or supernova

or smt like that

femboys power

[abstract cosmos]

its deffo a femboy class

[stoic anchor]

18 leys feel doable but 19 uf, I feel sub starts to lack dmg

Pure raw dmg

so sad. A tale as old as the world. Be good for 1 week, get nerfed into the ground:(

[azure thicket]

yeah outlaw's right there though

[stoic anchor]

Pure, unfiltered, darth maul hatred flowing through my veins. But sure outlaw is right there buddy

How can you sistematically, do the same thing for my beloved spec over and over again across multiple patches

[azure thicket]

oh come on it's pirate cousin

oh oh yeah true

[stoic anchor]

it's aight matey argh. I just wish sub didnt have the same fate and road over and over again

[abstract cosmos]

if they buff assa the same as sub id probs switch

[stoic anchor]

Member literally week1 when sub was MDI material, up there with unholy dk? Yeah, that lasted about 1 week

[azure thicket]

sub's not even down that bad though

tanks don't wanna get folded like lawnchairs and brick a 19

[abstract cosmos]

quick question is 0.4% increase make a diff or nah

[wraith sphinx]

It's about a 0.4% difference, I think

[abstract cosmos]

400 dps increase

[stoic anchor]

Between what? Assa and sub?

[abstract cosmos]

nah my rings

for sub

[azure thicket]

oh yeah it's not much

that's also pretty close to sim margin of error afaik

so it might be even less than that

[abstract cosmos]

thank u

[earnest crane]

how can i sim my diffrent specs and compare them ?

[grave wyvern]

is the sim really reliable regarding hast need ?
the sim told me that crafted neck with hast/crit is better than crit/mast by nearly 1% but that would put me at 800+ hast and the breakpoint should be 700(and i have guidon) :/

[earnest crane]

try cirit mastry one time in sim

[grave wyvern]

still seem to be same result

[earnest crane]

are u simming dungeon slice or Singel targer?

[grave wyvern]

default one never changed them

[earnest crane]

put it on dungeon slice

[tribal blade]

i'm guessing the sim wants more haste for 3 target

[stable maple]

so im simmin an puzzle box vs a prism the puzzle box is hero and prism is myth its saying that the prism is 900 dps increase

idk how acurate these sims are

[hazy breach]

Is your other trinket guidon

[stable maple]

gaze

[lilac stag]

Welcome to last week

[hazy breach]

Try putting them in the other slots

[tribal blade]

lol nice

[lilac stag]

Too much for you

[tribal vortex]

why are you simming 3 bosses 7 minutes

[stable maple]

like swap em around

[tribal blade]

nah i never go in that channel

it scares me

[earnest crane]

i dont know but cirit is simming higher for me

and i m at 670 haste

[tribal blade]

should be yeah

[earnest crane]

without guideon

[tribal blade]

oh

[lilac stag]

Minor detail

[tribal blade]

big thing is we don't really pay attention to the sims when it comes to haste

[grave wyvern]

well it was like this by default, i never changed it

[earnest crane]

and i really do better dmg in keys with cirit

[lilac stag]

I need to update the 3 kids pasta

[grave wyvern]

crit is better with dungeon slice

[earnest crane]

yea i had this problem before

looks like u do better with cirit in dungeon

[grave wyvern]

and if i want to sim for ST/raid what should i use for sim option

[earnest crane]

the one u did before this

[grave wyvern]

okay

thx !

[hollow spear]

Hectic Add Cleave with 6 targets for 2 minutes and 14 seconds, trust me bro

[lilac stag]

8 target patchwerk 20 seconds with lust

this is the way. just ask fuu

[tribal vortex]

1 target not 3

1 target 5 mins is ok

[dusky yacht]

The noobs always think it's 13

[drowsy plume]

my shadowdance duration is less than intended sometimes even when i used guidon before cds anyone knows the issue ?

[hollow spear]

Asking fuu ❌
Pinging Whispyr ✅

[abstract cosmos]

i find it hard to get good logs on palas any tips ?

[gritty crow]

guys which is better for M+

without oil, flask and food

[tidal marsh]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/933386399279878154/991343673419763753/caption.gif

[keen dome]

the one with almost 700 haste

[gritty crow]

and if go to ST the left one is better?

[keen dome]

no

it's also the one with almost 700 haste

because you want 700 haste (I.e., the first breakpoint, or 674 without oils)

Sub statting is get the haste breakpoint then get mastery/crit or crit/mastery

[gritty crow]

i see i see

and in this case, is it crit potion or mastery

as M+

[tribal vortex]

But he has no oils and flask so you can pick either one just get to 700 haste

[gritty crow]

with oils it goes up to 700 so no issues here

[tribal blade]

can we rename the sub channel to optimal stats channel or something

or can blizz rework haste for sub

[thin sinew]

This is us for the next 6 years

haste balance crew

[tribal blade]

lol i think so

[thin sinew]

Like got the crit/haste ring from nexus somehow 1/7 now gotta spend the next 16 hours working out what bits of gear to recraft/regem or whatever else .....

[graceful osprey]

At least we don’t have to deal with expertise and hit rating

[thin sinew]

it's great gameplay really

[tribal blade]

this is like 1 tier below that it feels like

[thin sinew]

Well they got rid of hit and expertise because they were breakpoints and well here we are with a breakpoint

DPS loss if below or above a very small margin.

new shiny thing????? nope dps loss because breakpoint

[graceful osprey]

I didn’t mind it from an RPG standpoint

[thin sinew]

well that and the insane crest caps >.<

oh no i liked hit,expertise,ARP but everyone had to deal with it so it sort of all leveled out

breakpoints sorta worked with reforging around also. Does just seem like they moved the compexity of the spec from actually playing it into gearing it