subtlety

[shrewd lantern]

and a swirlie spawns

[swift tinsel]

partially why I refuse to bonus roll AA

[twilit orbit]

you havent noticed a pause and disrupt in gameplay as melee pressing box? wild

lmao

[shrewd lantern]

that or i try to box on dragons and someone walks on me during orb spawns

[shrewd lantern]

yes the pause that prevents you from pressing backstab

insane 2k damage global

insane

[grim wasp]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[swift tinsel]

forced pause prevents you from getting into cds faster

vs not having any pause

[shrewd lantern]

so does guidon

[swift tinsel]

which is another failing

[grim wasp]

we never use secret technique outside of shadow dance?

[swift tinsel]

nope

[shrewd lantern]

yeah we have 2 wank trinkets

[swift tinsel]

its bc its haste not main stat

[shrewd lantern]

unless its bel

[swift tinsel]

if it were just an agi on-use it wouldn't be as notable

or crit etc

[shrewd lantern]

then you can time box cast to finish

as the egg spawns

[swift tinsel]

but bc deepening is poop

and its a haste on-use

cucked

[shrewd lantern]

i like how i explain why pi isnt good for sub

despite the spec runs haste

”your class is stupid”

[swift tinsel]

have them submit feedback on the official forum

[vale pine]

haste integration is meh

thats why

[shrewd lantern]

its forced haste tax

[swift tinsel]

I dislike it for deepening and sectech cdr

[shrewd lantern]

same they did for outlaw

[swift tinsel]

swift slasher is fine

[shrewd lantern]

the best versions of sub

have been when you played vers mast

to no ones surprise

[swift tinsel]

idk I won't be surprised if this is what we're stuck with for the xpac and it causes friction the whole time

and they have to bandaid it with tier sets

bc they're def gonna when we lose this set

[shrewd lantern]

ngl

[swift tinsel]

no more +4sec blades and guidon

[shrewd lantern]

sin is 1-2 aura buffs

from being the best

[swift tinsel]

blades/dances feel weird

[shrewd lantern]

imo

its the only spec that feels not half assed

[swift tinsel]

well yeah that's how buffs work

[shrewd lantern]

sub and outlaw somehow they feel a need

to redesign

every expac

[swift tinsel]

well they never finish them in the first place

[shrewd lantern]

yeah sin is the only one

that feels done

[swift tinsel]

Introduce new things -> get feedback -> iterate on maybe 1-2 things from feedback (if at all, sry outlaw) -> repeat

[shrewd lantern]

outlaw also has weird spam

from combat boomers

i feel

[swift tinsel]

bc they want a spec where your brain is off more than assassination

combat was so boring and dull

[shrewd lantern]

”back in my day it was called combat”

back cracks

[swift tinsel]

yeah and you just used all the spells sub used to have but no dance

sinister strike -> finish with snd, rupture, eviscerate

the literal entire gameplay

maybe throw in Revealing Strike

[shrewd lantern]

lmfao when i played this shit pre legion

[swift tinsel]

depending on which version

[shrewd lantern]

most boring spec

felt less engaging than warrior

[nocturne tendon]

bandit's guile had potential

[shrewd lantern]

not really

spam sinister strike

for ramping buff

[nocturne tendon]

lining up a good window was fun on some bosses

[heady garden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[nocturne tendon]

not really special compared to now obv

[shrewd lantern]

doesnt change the fact you basically pressed the same button repeatedly

[nocturne tendon]

yeah ig, a lot of specs were like that back then

[shrewd lantern]

pre legion i didnt even understand

why rogue had 3 specs

they all felt the same

[nocturne tendon]

tbh mop/wod sub was its own flavor

[shrewd lantern]

wod sub was cool

[plush roost]

All this variation of sub could use is an extra button tbh, whether its maintenance like rupture or a short cd like a blade dance

[shrewd lantern]

you wiped the raid if you didnt get double soulcap opener

[plush roost]

Im not a huge fan of evis and strike being all my damage

[shrewd lantern]

call it an accident

[swift tinsel]

having a blade dance-like ability would go very very hard

short hasted cd

[vale pine]

every iteration of subtlety has its own benefits and downsides

[shrewd lantern]

im not a fan of my damage on aoe being

[plush roost]

Rn we have sec tec which is like that but not quite

[shrewd lantern]

45-50% black powder

[vale pine]

i prefere the ones with more gameplay depth and good damage spread/niches

[nocturne tendon]

sub is kinda missing a plate to spin esp on ST

[swift tinsel]

yeah the cd is too long to feel as good

[plush roost]

Yerrr

[shrewd lantern]

what were the downsides to dfa

[plush roost]

Make goremaws 3 target cleave 8 sec cd button tyty

[swift tinsel]

blade dance/death sweep is one of my all-time favorite and most satisfying button presses

[shrewd lantern]

in your opinion

[vale pine]

you had frequent burst, but not high burst

[shrewd lantern]

i guess the aoe was not the best if you didnt have cloak

[swift tinsel]

looks cool, does good damage, has neat kit/talent interactions

[vale pine]

it was also hard to play compared to what we have now

[hazy breach]

Like a 45 second cooldown

[vale pine]

everything that makes the spec currently hard is bug related

[shrewd lantern]

i didnt think it was complex?

or did people struggle with sd on landing

[vale pine]

it had everything thats hard

[swift tinsel]

still like the idea of sectech being a stored dmg finisher in dance

[vale pine]

short, spefici timings

energy management

cooldown reduction

dot management

cooldown management

[shrewd lantern]

You had to prep nightblade for each one

since it was like a 15s dot

max

[swift tinsel]

but like an 8-10sec hasted cd finisher would feel amazing

[vale pine]

ye

you had a propper preperation and burst phase

now you still have it kinda

[swift tinsel]

scales with bloodlust

which they want

[vale pine]

but you don't have much to prepear compared

[shrewd lantern]

you had a dfa roughly every 30

which lined up with sod

tbh

[vale pine]

we don't scale with bloodlust

and % haste modifier still don't rly do much for us

which means, the haste rework was a dissaster

in terms of meeting goals

[swift tinsel]

I mean we do but getting such an overflow of sht stacks is a miss design-wise

[vale pine]

haste was integrated for subtlety

[swift tinsel]

bc we get crazy attack speed during lust

[vale pine]

to feel a diffrence in bloodlust

and on fights with haste buffs

[shrewd lantern]

idk to me dfa was the peak design for the spec

until they removed the artifact

[vale pine]

dfa was great

[swift tinsel]

watch your dagger durability evaporate before your eyes

[timid rose]

Need something like what WW got for FoF

[shrewd lantern]

then the spec’s energy was

lol

[vale pine]

but dfa was tricky

[nocturne tendon]

the fact that you pool for sht stacks outside of dance while doing nothing, only to then shit out sht stacks like crazy during dance, is kinda Uhhhh

[shrewd lantern]

it probably would have been way less bursty

[swift tinsel]

dance kinda flips your sht to be your cp

[vale pine]

i mean it goes with the design cahnge

[shrewd lantern]

without mantle

[swift tinsel]

which is interesting but also not great

[vale pine]

midnight did try to put all decision making outside of gameplay

[nocturne tendon]

yeah and energy is just a bar that moves up and down 4fun

[vale pine]

which means, talent and gear is what is impactful

[swift tinsel]

yep

[vale pine]

e.g. haste breakpoints

[shrewd lantern]

also the fact we can go into dances

[vale pine]

you feel (bad) if you don't have them

[shrewd lantern]

with practically 0 energy

[swift tinsel]

idk I've been trying to enjoy sub and giving it an honest go in raid and m+ but its just not quite there for me

[vale pine]

its not a "win more" situation

[shrewd lantern]

since dance shits out resources

[grim wasp]

if i get 2X pit dagger should i just use those 2 and not the crafted one?

[swift tinsel]

cloud cover returning burst is nice, but the rest of the spec just falls kinda flat

[shrewd lantern]

fundamentally it feels wrong imo

that i can dance at 30 energy

[vale pine]

you want the embellishment on weapon

[shrewd lantern]

and not see an issue

during

[vale pine]

so would use 1x the crafted

i think its fine

[swift tinsel]

well it was one thing to be resource flooded during dance and doing really big damage

[vale pine]

pooling isn't inherently a fun mechanic

[swift tinsel]

now its resource flooded during dance and doing pretty good damage

[raw wadi]

Is there something wrong with daggers? they wearout so fast... im paying rep money like crazy

[vale pine]

especially in design spaces like on subtlety

[hollow spear]

I notice a difference between outlaw and sub

[vale pine]

where your reward is fairly low for good play most of the time

[shrewd lantern]

rahter have pooling than gloomblade spam

[hollow spear]

My weapon melts like butter in the sun on sub

[swift tinsel]

pooling is odd though like Gods said feels funny

[shrewd lantern]

are you guys playing warning signs

[vale pine]

spec pe instead of warning sign

[swift tinsel]

since as soon as you're in cds you dont really notice that you pooled all that much bc sectech gives you 4 stacks off the rip

[meager coyote]

boys girls and others, on mythic bird, how long do I not press dance before egg?

[shrewd lantern]

that shit ruins your weps fast

[swift tinsel]

and as soon as the autos roll in during dance you're overloaded in sht stacks

[hollow spear]

Yeah, I did after 12.0.5

[vale pine]

you want 2 charges for egg

so w/e ac hives that

[rain swift]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[shrewd lantern]

i go into egg with 5 sc

[meager coyote]

aight sweet

[shrewd lantern]

full blast

[swift tinsel]

depends on how fast your guild is killing bird

[vale pine]

^

[shrewd lantern]

i need to pr above 305k

[vale pine]

bird intermission is very individual

[swift tinsel]

if they're slow, you have more time to prep dances/sc

[shrewd lantern]

for egg

[meager coyote]

ye ofc, the "need 2 sd for egg" is the answer I needed even if I did't know how to word it, cheers

[shrewd lantern]

Uhh

i basically dont spend during dances

except for coup and st

before egg

[vale pine]

you can prepear

[shrewd lantern]

[vale pine]

supercharger

[shrewd lantern]

yeah

[vale pine]

disoriented

for egg

(also sht obv.)

[swift tinsel]

sc, sht, coup, disorienting

all the fun bits

[shrewd lantern]

im shadowstriking 4x in sb

peak gameplay

[nocturne tendon]

and run puzzle box pog

[shrewd lantern]

i have a champ pb

aint running that

💀

[nocturne tendon]

dont you feel like a champ

[shrewd lantern]

*chump

[nocturne tendon]

master egg cracker

a refined tool with one purpose

[shrewd lantern]

i lose to the ele with PI sometimes

[hollow spear]

Chump indeed

[nocturne tendon]

get their PI

[meager coyote]

wait how would I do that

I'd use sectech and then not use any builders or spenders until egg?

[vale pine]

secret tech

[meager coyote]

yeah like secretech 18 sec ahead or w.e and go afK?=

[grim wasp]

what is this iterations thing?

[vale pine]

tells you how many combinations you can run

[swift tinsel]

potential combinations

[grim wasp]

why it oges red?

[swift tinsel]

can only do so many without a sub

because that's above how many you can sim at one time

[vale pine]

because you want to run more than the free limit

[grim wasp]

its trying to scam me for checking 2 gems T_T

[limber folio]

https://tenor.com/view/chiikawa-run-running-run-away-gif-11523384820060869343

3rd day of lura still gigawiping p1

[alpine wraith]

it is not an easy boss

[swift tinsel]

it shouldn't go red if you're just swapping 2 gems

[warm marlin]

its prob better ngl

[shrewd lantern]

cursed

[limber folio]

no fucking shit, but people keep trolling on glaives like its unreal

with seeds

[grim wasp]

it goes red as soon as i click a gem

[half loom]

Tick always use on the primary stat gem should reduce it by like half or a third

[silent sphinx]

how do i decide where to use my bonus rolls ? is it set dungeons

[alpine wraith]

ah that one is the classic

[swift tinsel]

what else are you trying to sim

additional gear slots, etc

[half loom]

Make sure U aren't comparing gear etc as well, you can't have that many gem slots to make that many different combinations I swear

[meager coyote]

well I can't go into phase with 2 stacks of unbalanced blades

[warm marlin]

you dont need disorienting

you open with blades/dance/sectec which would overwrite it anyway

[meager coyote]

ah yeah true

so it's only worth

farming a coup

and supercharger stacks

[warm marlin]

sht good too

[meager coyote]

since I'm holding dmg anyway

[meager coyote]

sht?

[vale pine]

shadow techniques

[meager coyote]

ah yeahh I always go with 14 stored cp

[vale pine]

but ye, you probably don't need to optimize disoriented

[meager coyote]

just trying to do more than 230k

so far best burst

oook new best

[grim wasp]

is assasination doing better damage this week?

[strong shoal]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aoFn6KLKXEVaxQL96hgSsM It's hard to actually sim sub

i guess i'll just keep sending bonus rolls in pit

(i do not want PB)

[swift tinsel]

raising dongers for a myth dagger for ya

[lilac stag]

you basically are looking for crit master or crit haste and getting a calculator out to see what’s worth catalyst and what’s not to make haste break

[strong shoal]

i have the haste part figured atm

[swift tinsel]

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ raise your dongers

[strong shoal]

without oilds

[lilac stag]

until you get a new item

[strong shoal]

yea

getting pit pants would help in that department

[swift tinsel]

I'll donate mine, tryna get spire pants lol

then I can drop haste from crafted items

[earnest prairie]

Do you guys sim ST with bloodlust/weapon oils off? Raidbots keeps telling me to drop under 700 haste rating and it's driving me crazy

[lilac stag]

I’ve given three daggers away to SV hunters

[swift tinsel]

spire is a minefield for shitty rolls

4 garbo trinkets, neck, etc

[lilac stag]

subtlety do low damage (“精妙”专精的伤害较低) get 700 haste from stats (通过属性面板获取 700 点急速) percent does not matter (百分比数值并不重要) robot needs less haste than dad with 3 kids (机器人所需的急速比那位带着三个孩子的“老爸”要少)
enjoy bench (“老爸”要少)

[shrewd lantern]

idk what im going to do with later coins

since i got both npx rings this reset

[lost rampart]

From the Sub FAQ:

Why does my sim seem to stop at like 600-650 haste instead of 650-700 like the guides say?
Because you are (hopefully) a human playing the game on a server you are likely to have a few milliseconds of delay here and there, whereas the sim does not. Therefore its better to have some additional leeway that the robot does not need.

[grim wasp]

Sim is bad then thats why i ask here

[shrewd lantern]

well i mean the sim can run under 700

because the sim doesnt miss globals

like the sim can play outlaw global perfect

[vale pine]

the sim has some slight delays

but they don't case the haste requirement to go up enough

means human error is higher than that usually

i rly hope blizz re-designs things

so we get full 1 sec extensions

[grim wasp]

How is there human error im pressing only 3 buttons

[vale pine]

instead of small intervalls

[vale pine]

it is not about button count

but about latency

and reaction times

input lag

[grim wasp]

I have 10ms used to play on 250

[vale pine]

idk why you mentiomn 3 buttons?

[shrewd lantern]

the sim can hit a 0.1s gcd

[vale pine]

it can't

or well it can barely

but ye

[grim wasp]

Not as if its a game where you press so many things

[vale pine]

i am not understanding the corellation

i am in raid, so maybe something got lost in the conevrsation

[grim wasp]

Human error is less a factor than if you had 30 buttons i mean vs 3 to 5

[hushed roost]

so for crown opener you're kind of just waiting for the first few blobs to die right

before blades

[grim wasp]

When the blob gets damage debuff i pop cds

[hushed roost]

ah okie so immediately after first pool

makes sense

[grim wasp]

Dont know when i see the debuff i press all to pad

[vale pine]

button count is not a factor at all

you can have 20 buttons

and be able to just macro the sequence in 1 button

or press them in a fixed order

[shrewd lantern]

People will say sub 2 button spec

then proceed to parse green

[vale pine]

human error is a big impact factor in design spaces with high limitations

[shrewd lantern]

absolute cinema

[vale pine]

think of it like in speedrunning

the button count of jump and run games is low

so its rly 2 buttons

[half comet]

in tww didnt they say theyre going to remove the 1.2 coup thing or did for som e time?

[swift tinsel]

likely here to stay

which is annoying

[vale pine]

but these 2 buttons need to be pressed frame perfect

and because of that

onyl few people can do so

if you want to try that, super mario 64 is a very good game with many tricks with varying difficulty of execution

[shrewd lantern]

speedrunners literally just about everyone knows the script

but not everyone gets the execution

often

[vale pine]

it is all about human error

[swift tinsel]

luck and aggregate consistency

[vale pine]

and how well you can recover

[swift tinsel]

^^

really execution-heavy speedruns are really really entertaining

[vale pine]

speedrunning is difficult

keep in mind people speedrun not only deterministic games

e.g. minecraft is a very popular speedrun game

[swift tinsel]

Wind Waker speedruns were some of the first streams I ever watched on twitch/justin.tv

[vale pine]

and minecraft speedruns have way more to do with good randomness

than with actual player skill

[swift tinsel]

yeah those are a bit less entertaining for me

seeing them luck into the perfect run can be cool, but less exciting than hitting frame-perfect skips

[vale pine]

oh absolutely

the best games to speedrun have mechanical difficulty but also a good pacing

[swift tinsel]

Zelda games in general can be quite crazy to watch as far as execution goes

[vale pine]

thats why super mario 64 is so popular

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah we had a few people in guild get into that

and another is a soulsborne runner

[vale pine]

zelda has a bit of a problem of absurdity

[swift tinsel]

yeahhhh lol

[vale pine]

because speedunning means overwriting memory

to trigger the end scene

[swift tinsel]

the one that really did my head in was Wind Waker extremespeed swimming

think they call it superswim now

but you'd storage glitch, then park yourself in the sea and hold the stick at specific angles that would cause the camera to build speed and flicker extremely quickly then release and legitimately explode through the ocean across the map

[peak ice]

How close do you normally get to your Simmed damage

Feel like I’m always like 80%

[swift tinsel]

within a few %

[peak ice]

Oh true

[summer mason]

my tank friend doesn't see the smoke bomb, can you tell me why?

[swift tinsel]

no one but you sees it now

they changed it a few days ago

[peak ice]

They changed it in an update

[vale pine]

80%-90% is a good starting point

[vale osprey]

First coins last week - Gaze
First coin this week - Pit ring
Second coin this week - Crit haste xenas ring

[timid rose]

Smoke cloud doesn't even matter anymore

[vale osprey]

#blessed

[vale pine]

they changed it

[abstract cosmos]

does shadow blade line up with dreamrift adds on mythic ?

[meager coyote]

I just send the shadow dance in bird intermission after my cds right? like I dont wait for sectech

[shrewd lantern]

now get the other npx ring

[vale osprey]

Sims worse for me than this combo

[shrewd lantern]

wild

sims higher for me

i have the salhadaar neck though

[swift tinsel]

this is the set I'm hunting atm

[vale pine]

i am not sure what rings i want to roll for

-.-#

[swift tinsel]

got the wedding ring just need occlusion

[peak ice]

I’m still rocking psb

[swift tinsel]

I'm preferring a crit-heavy set bc I'm playing more outlaw now so it works well for me

[vale osprey]

I'll swap occlusion for Belo ring when 1) I get belo ring on myth and 2) I get alleria neck

[swift tinsel]

so I'm aiming for any crit/haste or crit/mastery pieces I can get to maintain the haste breakpoint

and banking some extra haste for outlaw set

so like wedding ring/occlusion, choker, lingering legacies pants, pit bracers

[native zodiac]

gg im free

[swift tinsel]

got beetle dagger

[swift tinsel]

huge gratz!

[shrewd lantern]

i do have a hero wedding ring

to play outlaw though

[swift tinsel]

I think my outlaw set is close to 23-24% haste

got a hero march sword and mace from I think paladins

[shrewd lantern]

got the npx mace

[swift tinsel]

might craft 1h once I get through upgrades

I'm rolling npx as outlaw so I don't get the shit dagger plus the mace is good

[peak ice]

Pit seems rough for using the reroll orbs in

[shrewd lantern]

pretty much what i did

[swift tinsel]

pit is really good to reroll

lots of good sub gear there

[fossil forge]

pit made me rich

[peak ice]

Neck and ring?

[swift tinsel]

pit/npx/skyreach probs the top options for most folks

[fossil forge]

on my alt

[swift tinsel]

if you don't have crafted, you can get neck, ring, dagger, belt, bracers, legs

from pit

high key huge

[shrewd lantern]

bracers lowkey w/e

since we can cata

[swift tinsel]

they're crit/haste

which is basically free haste

[vale pine]

nicuuu!!

[white nova]

Powerful wizard

[swift tinsel]

so not really a point to cata bracers if you're already rolling there anyways and get them

[native zodiac]

lura is so scuffed with cd timers

now with the % buff and extra gear

[shrewd lantern]

where have i heard this before...

[tepid trellis]

how is your lura timers scuffed?

she doesent phase on %

afaik

[native zodiac]

p3 you could send before going into p4

and get it back in p4

but you just dont now

[tepid trellis]

well start of p3 you should no?

[native zodiac]

well yeah you send in lust

then p4 after

it doesnt realy matter as if you reach p4 with 20 ppl the boss dies

just a bit aids

[alpine wraith]

did you miss last blades because it died too fast?

exile said that is happening now

in p3

[serene notch]

You guys ever use bloodmallet to look at trinket sims real quick?

[alpine wraith]

nope

[cunning comet]

Hello guys, first post here. quick question. From my vault I got Myth Track Edge of the burning Sun and Emberwing Feather... I tried simming but Emberwing Feather marks a loss of dps (using Hero Light Company and Crucibe). My hear tells me that the weapon is the best upgrade since I have a hero track wep. But Bloodmallet threw me off since it is the 3rd best trinket listed there. Thoughts?

[hazy breach]

Well you have guidon

Which is just a strictly better feather

[cunning comet]

Ok ok, yea I am using Farstrider's Mercy as MH and Edge of the Burning Hero track

[hazy breach]

High ilvl in mainhand is the highest priority

[cunning comet]

thx

[vivid spindle]

Did logging 95+ get easier on HC, due to player that dont clear hc anymore or dropped the season? I got 2 97er today

I consider seeing my self up there as quite weird

[shrewd lantern]

Well alot of the higher end people stop doing hc.

No reason to

[vivid spindle]

Ye thats what i thought

[shrewd lantern]

It's also longer a season goes more kill

so top 5% of 10,000 kills much different from top 5% of 20

[vivid spindle]

I thought it might "resets" on 12.0.5. Or do we compare still to the whole season?

[shrewd lantern]

depends what you look at

[alpine wraith]

it has each bracket

but it defaults to only 0.5 patch

[zinc hull]

Is my understanding of apex conditions correct, that if i have supercharged combo points i want to spend them only when teh finisher will reload CP?

So if im at 7cp but no apex proc i want to build

[lilac stag]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[west tide]

guys i spent 3 rolls in pit to get the weapon

for beloren kill but i forgot to change my loot spec

i got bis ring tho

[alpine wraith]

ayy

[west tide]

ima keep rollin on it next week

need pants 👖

[ashen granite]

Is there a point where crit DRs, and would therefore be better spent in mastery? There are a fair few raid fights which seem to make sense keeping a nice bit of mastery so just wondering if there's a reasonable crit limit

[regal glacier]

Guys I am lost, idk what im doing wrong here, ilvl 275 and on single target i cant seem to get higher than 60k, doing rotation any help would be greatly appreciated (pls dont judge abysmal dps)

[stoic anchor]

at the last boss in maisara caverns. do u get pulled by a specific totem towards it or is a random totem pulling you?

[lilac stag]

Use !log and post a log

[serene notch]

Maybe if you post a log of the fight someone can review it.

[lilac stag]

If you’re speccing into PP you toss on mastery. That is few and far between in the raid.

[void ocean]

Can someone explain how the "bug" between premed and apex actually works

Cause i keep gettin aa procs after i fire the dance

[vale osprey]

I'm at like 1.1k crit, approx 550 mastery or something like that, JUST ran a sim to see if it wants me to recraft my belt + dagger from crit/haste to mast/haste and it's a loss even at 1100 crit

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vMj7qH1udAA6WXBfqXzBCs - for reference

[nocturne tendon]

you press dance -> premed buff is active until your first shadowstrike/shuriken storm

so your sectech does not interact with apex~~, and neither does that first shadowstrike/shuriken storm~~

once you've done strike/storm, it's back to normal again~~, also why you generally strike twice to proc apex immediately after dance/sectech~~

[void ocean]

I would have situations where, if i pop second dance during blades while full on cp, id strike again and proc apex, not sure if any other interaction is expected

[nocturne tendon]

do you perhaps open that 2nd dance with a shuriken storm

[void ocean]

No

I go full cp and dance into strike

If i dont have apex

If i do i go dance into evis

[nocturne tendon]

well same deal really, you open with a builder

[nocturne tendon]

so, here, if you meant "i'd strike again" as in you dance+builder THEN strike again, it would be consistent with the current premed interaction

[void ocean]

Ye my bad expression, i meant strike once to proc aa

[grim wasp]

just got an outlaw rogue in my keys while tanking

[nocturne tendon]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[grim wasp]

meme spec

[void ocean]

So full cp -> dance -> strike for aa -> evis

[grim wasp]

wrong channel mb

[trail rover]

dk if you put it in or it doesnt like tooo much crit but the sim is using mastery flask

[shrewd lantern]

its unironically more dps

[icy helm]

sorry if it has been asked, i see alot of sub rogues getting out of mastery and emphasizing crit, what caused that shift unless i was wrong to begin with ?

[grim wasp]

patch 12.05 bro

[icy helm]

ty

[shrewd lantern]

only change was you like crit more than mastery typically

as opposed to the other way around

[nocturne tendon]

don't think I've noticed getting AA procs on the first shadowstrike after 2nd dance, then again I haven't played premed much lately and I generally try to avoid dance -> strike. so could be wrong but it's not what should be happening based on how premed works atm

maybe you're proccing AA right before 2nd dance since you're basically chaining at that point?

[void ocean]

I did delves today and preys and i could swear i was having procs, i might try making a video

I took premed for that content cause cbb

[hazy breach]

The bug with premed is that if you have the AA buff up and then press dance and sectech you will not spawn a clone and not get refunded

The thing that makes premed a dps loss is unrelated to the buff you get with ancient arts, its that since you just get full cp with premed strikes you can never expend any shadow techniques, thus you can never proc the shadow clone

[void ocean]

Oh alright

[nocturne tendon]

yeah the clone is the damage loss part, but since you aren't expending shadow technique stacks, doesn't that mean you basically can't proc AA until premed buff is gone?

i.e. striking/storming once

or am i just giga confused

[hazy breach]

If you mean the refund ancient art buff

[void ocean]

I think aa procs just when u have left 5 sht doesnt matter how

[hazy breach]

You can, as long as you have 5 or more sht stacks left after the strike

[vale osprey]

Good spot, I'll try it with both if I remember and see what it likes more

[trail rover]

ok idk why your sim used mastery flask but i reran and it says crit flask is better (109326dps) but only by ~390

[vale osprey]

It still just defaults to crit for some reason, thanks for rerunning 😊

[tidal solstice]

for ST yeah thats how it be, for AoE mastery is still king I thought

[nocturne tendon]

what I'm asking is basically if the above scenario is true, assume premed and 5+ sht stacks

[trail rover]

npnp

[vale osprey]

So using crit flask, did it prefer recrafting my shit to mastery? @trail rover

[hazy breach]

Yes

[vale osprey]

I'll check tomorrow, office day into belo prog

[hazy breach]

You can have 0 cp before it anyway

[tidal solstice]

so we can just get around the premed bug by SS after dance

[hazy breach]

5 sht stacks and any cp > press dance > press strike > get AA proc

[trail rover]

no but dagger reracft is only a 100dps loss

[hazy breach]

Idk theres nothing to play around with the premed bug

[tidal solstice]

oh it still eats a rotten stack

[trail rover]

still likes crit better but I guess you are getting close to sweetspot

[hazy breach]

what

Why would it not

[nocturne tendon]

nah it's more me apparently not understanding this basic concept after hours on dummies lul

[strong shoal]

thanks

[vale osprey]

Fair, yeah so it's just splitting hairs at that point, crit big and you can pivot law in keys easier with it.

Also getting 200k shadowstrike crits on Belo egg is cracked

[tidal solstice]

why not just make premed give us 5 sht

[hazy breach]

They should do that yes

But it does not

[vale osprey]

Then get on the phone to John blizzard eleem

[hazy breach]

Idk ive been suggesting this since the 10.2 remake

[vale osprey]

Less time reacting to messages with check pins, more time on a Skype call with John D Blizzard smh

[void ocean]

Skype call 😂

So he has to go back in time for when the skype was working 😝

Still easier task than talking rogue designers to some sense

[heady garden]

is it common that sims want less than 700 haste?

[vale osprey]

Depends

Are you a robot that plays at 0 latency?

[heady garden]

ofc not but it's annoying that I can't trust what sims say

[nocturne tendon]

@void ocean okay yeah I just tried a bit on a dummy and Eleem is 100% right, I was completely wrong about the whole premed + proccing AA thing, my bad disregard 🙃 ty Eleem for clarifying

[heady garden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[void ocean]

Btw is it rly impossible to add some "human-like" delay to robot actions?

[native zodiac]

yep

you pretty much miss p4 blades or 1 p3 blades

you choose

[void ocean]

Like add a text box in sims "write your ltc and age:" and based on that add some delay to sim robot 😂

[native zodiac]

i still send p3 bc p4 is a joke but i got like half a use in p3

and half a use in p4

on farm ill hold for p4 prob

[alpine wraith]

next time kill someone in an intermission so you miss some dps

whoops

[cyan saddle]

1k crit 900 mastery enough?

[native zodiac]

[subtle aspen]

!loot

what's the command to see loot table on keys

[alpine wraith]

wat

if you meant the decent loot there is a pin eleem made

[subtle aspen]

i mean the crests

[alpine wraith]

pit/xenas/skyreach are the decent ones most of the time

[subtle aspen]

how much crests

[alpine wraith]

oh

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[subtle aspen]

im making a alt so i need to farm some hero

[alpine wraith]

so spam 8s i guess

[void ocean]

U easily cap hero crests with preys and delves

Well, nightmare preys

[alpine wraith]

depends if he is freshly leveled

farming delves for 600 crests

is kinda

end me

[placid coral]

we are starting m paladins tonight any advice?

[plain quest]

sit

[placid coral]

i tried lol i wasnt supposed to prog paladins

callouts

[native crag]

best sim profile for simming midnight falls fight? light movement?

[hazy breach]

Just ST

Light movement is ass

[void ocean]

Considering boss theme, its void movement

[hazy breach]

It does not represent light movement well at all

[void ocean]

I always tho movement is more for caster sims

[native crag]

thanks fam.

[coarse olive]

hey guys, once u get puzzle box do u use shadowblades like a 2 min CD?

[rain swift]

i use puzzlebox like a 3 min CD

[surreal orbit]

WERGHKNSDRFGYHKNSDHSDBNahksdhn

[rain swift]

wnice

i got this and a pair of shoulders I catalyzed from my rerolls this week

[surreal orbit]

wait is hungering > kricks?

or its just sim dependent

[rain swift]

prob depends, krick is good if u dont have haste cap i suppose

[peak ice]

Hungering has vers doesn’t it

[rain swift]

yeah

[peak ice]

Prefer krick or edge personally

[rain swift]

Yeah, just sim it and see what will be best for u

[rain swift]

just simmed krick for me compared to hungering victory, same ilvl and enchant, and for me krick is a DPS loss on around 100 dps

[surreal orbit]

I have crafted belt, would you guys send crests asap on mythic weaopn or hold to craft another piece

[rain swift]

sim it, see what will benefit u more

[surreal orbit]

word

[warm marlin]

if youre like 260 the ritual sites give 20 hero for like 6mins of gaming

[latent kindle]

how much haste do we want before weapon enchants

700?

[warm marlin]

well it did last week

maybe new site is hard

[random mason]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[random mason]

Oh

After consumes you want 700

[latent kindle]

ty Wobble

yea I knew it was 700 ish didnt know if that INCLUDED consumes but thanks for clarifying

[dusky yacht]

My first windrunner roll was ember cringe

But my vault was pretty good I guess

[void jungle]

Hey everyone, how's it going?
I was reading the Subtlety rotation guide and I have a question, could you help me please?

As Trickster on all target counts: Try to ensure that you always have ancient arts active for your supercharged non-Secret Technique Finisher during ShadowDance.

Does this mean I should never use my Secret Technique with the Apex Talent procked? Doesn't it benefit from the 50% damage replication? Wouldn't it be better to prioritize Secret Technique when Ancient Arts is available?

[dusky yacht]

No no no

If possible you supercharge Sectec, for example with guidon + BL you can naturally supercharge second sectec, if you use sectec+dance macro, which you should, you will also for example always supercharge that sectec

This optimisation simply means that you make sure AA is procced if you have a supercharged combopoint and sectec is offcooldown for evis or coup

I'll give you an example of how this plays out even without guidon

You use shadowdance sectec macro, first supercharge goes into sectec, you have one supercharge left, you SS twice to get AA up and then evis or coup

[warm marlin]

its bugged, the clones dont benefit from aa

[void jungle]

Right now I'm following that guideline where, on the first burst, I use the second Shadow Dance when there are 8 seconds left on Shadow Blades, and then I end up using only 1 SecTec outside of the Supercharger. But im always focusing in spend SecTec with supercharge proc.

[void jungle]

Ohhh

so i should never use then

[warm marlin]

its about equal to evis

[dusky yacht]

[void jungle]

i'm like this right now, with guidon

Mastery
Haste
Crit

[dusky yacht]

Without bloodlust you shouldn't supercharge the second sectec

With bloodlust it will happen just naturally and you should still sectec ASAP regardless of the supercharge

[void jungle]

So in the end, without BL, it turns out to be one SecTec with supercharger and one without?
And with BL, the second sectec will be supercharged naturally but if dont happen i can spend withtout superchage?
Right?

[hazy breach]

yes

[dusky yacht]

Yep

[void jungle]

Great! Thank you guys ❤️
You're awesome

[dusky yacht]

[cyan saddle]

so dargons we just send cds when they come up?

what it looks like from lorrgs at least

[tribal blade]

if you want to parse you need to hold dances for orbs

[vernal drum]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[buoyant shale]

Is there a log review channel here? I'm grey parsing and don't know logs well enough to know why

[short radish]

do a !log

and then pray someone looks at it

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[buoyant shale]

!log

[short radish]

chances are youre doing something fundamentally wrong

so i'd advise reading guide

and looking at your opener

and then looking at what youre doingf

[sick arrow]

is there a reason the double dragons talent tree on Wowhead doesnt have cloud cover or has it not been updated on the preview tree?

[copper siren]

think they will buff sub now? been watching data from archon and Sub was doing the best to start (which I love cuz subs my fav), then they buffed Sin and Sin pulled ahead with the numbers, and now with recent buffs Outlaw is rocketed up and subs been left down in the bottom end. Seems like the "strongest spec" changes every week or so lol.

[short radish]

no

[hidden shadow]

how do you guys keep track of coup over black powder in fights like vanguard? or is there a way to macro it?

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[short radish]

sub also just got buffed

[hidden shadow]

knew it it was way to hard

thx

[short radish]

np

[copper siren]

I know. current numbers for keys for example shows outlaw doing 180k, sin 170k and sub is down at 152k after the buffs only 9k above devastation evoker, lowest damage dps spec currently. A pretty big shift for outlaw and barely much for sub after the buffs.

[short radish]

sub is arguably "fine"

it's ST damage is average

its aoe is also average

[dry surge]

is premed still broken

[short radish]

and average is "fine"

the problem is that our cleave sucks and our prio sucks

which is a spec design issue

enhance is going to see buffs before sub ever sees buffs

that spec is down so bad

like don't get me wrong i'm a doomer over the state of sub/rogue in general

but i wouldnt expect any buffs anytime soon

and if we get buffs

i'll be pleasantly surprised

[tribal blade]

yeah it's not happening

rogue is way too low on the totem pole

[frail kindle]

ive heard interesting tales about enhance

apparently its very good at sniping low health adds

[short radish]

i still have some minor c opium

about a rogue rework next patch

or the 12.1.5

[tribal blade]

yo wtf is wrong with this guy

[tribal blade]

ME TOO

btw https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/liquids-max-talks-rogue-raid-buff-situation/2296187 my post is starting to pick up some traction

my new post

[warm marlin]

I wonder if he knows that a 3% damage aura will always make you take a rogue no matter the situation

[tribal blade]

lol yup exactly

like wtf is he even on about

+3% crit or haste

is an unsittable raid buff

[swift tinsel]

He’s just like that

[tribal blade]

mafic 2.0

[swift tinsel]

Just constantly malding at all times, gets banned from here whenever he makes a new account after getting banned from here

[tribal blade]

lol nice

[short radish]

the reverse mafic

[swift tinsel]

One of those “I tell it like it is no filter but really it’s just me being a jackass” types

[tribal blade]

my argument for the simple raid buff is so blizz can just slap it on with 0 thought

because they clearly want to use their attention on other classes

i just want the basic thing to make us playable

[swift tinsel]

His takes aren’t usually grounded in reality

[tribal blade]

WHAT A G

A+

[short radish]

or...

we could just delete rogue

and be free from this prison

[brisk onyx]

No

I won’t play wow if there is no rogue

[short radish]

same

[brisk onyx]

[short radish]

free us from this prison

[gilded thistle]

fucking kill me now

killed on the pull where i fuck everything up

[tribal blade]

you know every day you make more and more sense

1 day you'll ascend to the ultimate philosopher

[tribal blade]

sucks when that happens 🙁 next time

[short radish]

everyone just misunderstands me

one day they'll understand

[copper siren]

I don't, I'm just hopeful. I love sub the most but trying to push into 17 keys and its getting harder to get into groups as sub. My guildies who run keys suggested going to outlaw and i'm like "i'd rather not if I don't have to" lol

[gilded thistle]

praying

[short radish]

yeah it's a rough life. I have hit the acceptance stage of state of sub rogue

where we are entirely dependent on tuning on whether we get brought

at the very least "rogue' as a class does good damage in m+

so you still have the option of playing the game

[tribal blade]

it's still tough for rogues in M+

[short radish]

i highly advise that you learn how to play either assi/outlaw though

all pure dps specs should be able to play 1.5 of the classes

[tribal blade]

oh this is about sub specifically

[short radish]

like even mages have to swap between whatever is busted each season

[frail kindle]

wow my game just froze middle of cooldowns middle of p3 lura woohoo

good timing awesome

[tribal blade]

sin is pretty chill in keys, the hardest part is surviving

[buoyant shale]

!macroi

[buoyant shale]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[short radish]

no the hardest part is saying awake

[tribal blade]

fackin blue people m8

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

TRUE

actually i stay awake playing sin

because my energy bricks in some way

[short radish]

yeah because youre a sin main

[tribal blade]

and then i'm wide awake

[tribal blade]

NAUUURRRWWWW

[short radish]

idk it's really weird

i know both sub and sin have equalish amounts of downtime

but sin downtime feels like fake downtime

[tribal blade]

i think i'm just conditioned to sub downtime now

and it's significantly better than TWW

[gilded thistle]

im so fucking depress now...

i need to go outside

[tribal blade]

but sin went backwards in downtime

[gilded thistle]

bad parse ruin night

i would had a 90+ but we had a bad callout to try and cheese boss from 30%

[short radish]

yeah like sin downtime

[gilded thistle]

so we wiped

[short radish]

youre still watching bleeds

youre still thinking about how you need to maintain your stuff when you go agian

sub is just

oh

okay i can press bu ttons in 8 seconds

cool

#makedowntimeactualdowntime

[tribal blade]

yeah would be cool if they worked something into sub's downtime

that built up to a bigger dance

rupture did that before kinda

[short radish]

nah

i like sub the way it is

just tune the damage

and give us back nimble

[tribal blade]

i miss old nimble

[short radish]

i miss old sub

[tribal blade]

it's still crazy to me they fixed sub's cleave problem with nimble then took it away

and now we're the worst cleave spec in the game again

WHO COULD HAVE FORSEEN THIS HAPPENING

[short radish]

lmao ikr

someone in blizz has a hard on for black powder

you will spam the black powder, and you will enjoy it

[tribal blade]

lol trueee

i'm actually kinda happy my latest forum post is picking up traction

[ripe flame]

finally killed the bird managed to do decent on the burn by being a cringe boi

still gray parsed

[brisk onyx]

My opinion is that since they've decided to only apply nimble for some damage instead of all, they should increase the target cap (similar to caustic)

[short radish]

based

grey parsing birb are the true 100% parsers

[tribal blade]

that and it should do more dmg

[ripe flame]

only lost to the smurfs

[tribal blade]

like make the autos and UB cleave for like double the dmg as coup

[tribal blade]

i think parses on beloren are irrelevant

i saw 1 log with 2 subs

1 sub got like rank 2 or 3 and did less egg dmg than another sub who got like a 80% parse

[spice matrix]

Alnseer has some really cringe variance for me tonight

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ripe flame]

yeah p1 damage atp is kinda fake

idk about the weeks before but we were stopping a lot

[copper siren]

yeah I struggle managing energy on sin. It feels slow compared to sub which is why I don't enjoy it as much for keys. I don't mind it as much in raid though. Outlaw I just don't really like the feel personally. The whole pirate vibe is meh. When sub is the "meta" rogue spec for keys i'm a very happy boy. When its not and i'm trying to push into high keys I feel i'm constantly being pressured into playing whatever spec is doing more damage. We don't have lust, or brez and our other utility often isn't sought after so if your not playing the spec that does the most damage overall you just get discarded.

[tribal blade]

yeah it's 100% fake

depending on your raid's dmg

that's how much dmg you can do in P1

[short radish]

i'm losing to the disc priest from 50 seconds till burn phase

[tribal blade]

that's just how doing high keys works though

there's always pressure to play whatever is meta

unless you're a baller on your spec

[tribal blade]

LOL

btw what are you doing to prep for egg phase

[short radish]

how degenerate do you want to be?

wait i'm losing to the MW as well

[tribal blade]

hahaaaa

[copper siren]

so true. Why i'm kind of considering just trying to finish off resiliant 16 then just do 10's for vault and if I can get a couple pieces to build out my stats for outlaw then maybe i'll make the switch and try to push a little more but i'm not going to try very hard. Doesn't feel like theres much point if you don't get invites because we are not "meta"

[short radish]

not getting invites because we're not meta

is just part and parcel of the rogue experience

[tribal blade]

i'm doing a bunch of immune bullshit anyways

[short radish]

. We don't have lust, or brez and our other utility often isn't sought after so if your not playing the spec that does the most damage overall you just get discarded.

you said it yourself mate

if all we bring is damage

then we have to bring damage

[tribal blade]

this

[short radish]

{time:00:02.8} - Fimbulvtr {spell:185313} {time:00:22.5} - Fimbulvtr {spell:121471} {time:00:22.5} - Fimbulvtr {spell:185313} {time:00:33.5} - Fimbulvtr {spell:185313} {time:00:45.5} - Fimbulvtr DONT PRESS FINISHER {time:00:50.5} - Fimbulvtr DONT PRESS FINISHER {time:00:55.5} - Fimbulvtr DONT PRESS FINISHER {time:01:01.5} - Fimbulvtr {spell:280719} {time:01:02.5} - Fimbulvtr {spell:185313} {time:01:18.1} - Fimbulvtr {spell:5171} {time:01:33.1} - Fimbulvtr {spell:185313}

these are my notes for birb p1

[tribal blade]

that's a lot of numbers

[copper siren]

yep. honestly every season thats like this (which is most) I push as high as I can before it gets near impossible then I just go play other games until next season.

[short radish]

basically opener - naked sdance because i need to soak orbies

do sblade burst
reminder to not press finisher to save my coup proc
press sectech into sdance so i can save supercharger
press snd at 1:20ish so it's up for burn
press sdance at 1:33 again so i go into burn with 2 more (4 total) charges of SC + rotten buff will be up

[ripe flame]

same basically

[tribal blade]

that's the difference between people who make title and those who don't

the people who make title never give up

[ripe flame]

after that I just send one sectech on eggs so I get to egg with 5 sp instead of 6

[tribal blade]

ofc there's also the skill part

[ripe flame]

so I dont eat one

[tribal blade]

but a big part is never giving up

[short radish]

though i dont think the 1:30 matters since it doesn stack

[short radish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

[tribal blade]

TRUEEE

like take me, i'm not a great player

barely above average

[short radish]

i unironically watch this guy whenever i need a boost

[tribal blade]

but i can smash my face against the M+ wall

[copper siren]

true but I can spend 3 hours trying to get into keys, or listing my own and having people leave (literally happens), and get no where or I can go play another game to make progress in and actually enjoy my evening.

[short radish]

really gets the neurons going

[copper siren]

titles are not all that important to me tbh, I just like the challenge of pushing higher and higher.

[tribal blade]

haha yeah i get that

[short radish]

congratulations you're getting to the acceptance stage

[tribal blade]

that's literally what happened during S2 DF when they dropped aug

and anyone who wasn't god comp was sitting in lfg for 3 hours at a time for an invite

and i still made it to title that season

by just never accepting defeat

it was REALLY hard

but i did it

and so can you 😉

[frank wolf]

lads... im thinking of making the move to #outlaw

[copper siren]

yeah but I wanna have fun, not sit bored all night. I have fun by pushing my ability as a gamer, so pushing high keys. If i'm not in a key and sitting in queue for 3 hours, i'm not having fun or I can go play another game that has a ranked mode that I can queue into and get a game in 5 minutes. The titles don't matter to me really.

[tribal blade]

i would highly recommend swapping to something in the current meta like dev or udk

because this is just rogue life and it's been this way for years now

[copper siren]

yeah i've been playing my rogue since Dec 2004. I could play a meta class but I love rogue too much.

i'm old I don't like change 😛

[short radish]

same

[frail kindle]

1% lura p4

omg

14m hp

[frail kindle]

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I GOT THE MOUNT

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOO

[warm marlin]

grats gamer

[frail kindle]

ty

[cloud barn]

are sims trustable right now?

[maiden oar]

[tribal blade]

all the sub rogues sending blades ~20 secs into beloren is because they're doing cloak soaks on pull correct?

[frail kindle]

prolly

[shrewd lantern]

also lets you hit the birds with sectech coup cleave

and since your next use is on burn anyway

[tribal blade]

mm gotcha

[shrewd lantern]

you dont really lose a cast

[tribal blade]

yeah makes sense

[shrewd lantern]

technically you can take the soak with just feint if topped

[tribal blade]

ok cool i'm doing 1st orb soaks ~15 secs in

[shrewd lantern]

though it drops you to like

[tribal blade]

so i just send a solo dance then blades after

[shrewd lantern]

under 100k

[shrewd lantern]

yeah

[tribal blade]

sorry i should have been more clear, i'm doing orb soaks

[shrewd lantern]

i do first soak yeah

i send one dance st

[tribal blade]

cool cool

[shrewd lantern]

then cds when birds get near boss

[tribal blade]

ok tight

so long as you send before 30 secs you're gucci

[shrewd lantern]

though i do scuffed shit where

i only send st with that first dance

to hold the other sc point

[tribal blade]

LOL

holy that's some cursed tech

[shrewd lantern]

if you want max egg damag

you gotta do some degen shit

[tribal blade]

yeah i hear that

we have a big ele

so we'll prob be good

[shrewd lantern]

i only send finishers

[tribal blade]

and stacking raid buff

[shrewd lantern]

on st and coup

xddd

yah im just playing it safe

[tribal blade]

i might just play normally

[shrewd lantern]

even if our ele is doing more than 300k

[tribal blade]

and see what happens on egg

[shrewd lantern]

i think ryldd had some super cursed tech

[tribal blade]

if we're lacking egg dmg i'll tell my RL i can do degen bs

[shrewd lantern]

i mean he was playing pb and orc

[tribal blade]

oh shit hit me

[foggy estuary]

Is stacking dances for egg phase a degen thing?

[tribal blade]

stacking SC

supercharger

which means not sending any dmg finishers

[tribal blade]

ew

[foggy estuary]

I think you can fit an extra supercharge or two in intermission prio to egg burn no?

[shrewd lantern]

oh yeah

[tribal blade]

holy lol

[shrewd lantern]

i mean the safe strat i found

was send only st with first dance of fight

then st+coup only finishers the next few and last one dont finish at all

[tribal blade]

is there a reason why he doesn't use snd after hitting 7 CP

[shrewd lantern]

no idea

im just here praying for strike crits

during cloudcover

xddd

had a great 12% strike crit egg burn attempt

....

[tribal blade]

oof ouch

[faint hemlock]

Casualaddict posted his kill where you can see his casts. Basically when last birds dies and turn into mini eggs before egg phase you dont use spenders and just build stacks

[tribal blade]

@warm marlin is there a reason why you don't use snd more in the screenshot posted above

[warm marlin]

lazy

[shrewd lantern]

yeah this works but

you dont have max sc doing this

[warm marlin]

or maybe i have energy

idk

[shrewd lantern]

generally speaking

[tribal blade]

haha fair enough

[wheat edge]

Disgusting spec

[warm marlin]

ok i was mid key

you only snd there to get energy back to cast more builders

if you have energy to cast builders you just hit

usually i had energy to press more builders

[tribal blade]

ahh ok

[shrewd lantern]

does snd give relentless strikes

lmao

[warm marlin]

ye

and benefits from SC but doesnt consume it

[shrewd lantern]

i will be in pirate land soon

maybe

[warm marlin]

it costs 25 energy and gives 50 energy at 7cp with sc

[shrewd lantern]

depending if im feeling it to do reps on new pirate

[wheat edge]

Even worse

[shrewd lantern]

someone told me

it kind of plays like df s1

[ripe flame]

I was doing exactly the same too my pb was like 318k on first burn but on kill only did like 297k iirc 🥀

[shrewd lantern]

i had a sub 250k pull

then check i have 10% strike crit

ok blizz

strike critting harder than a supercharged st is funny

[ripe flame]

Insanely cursed

Is insanely funny how hard shadowstrike hits

[shrewd lantern]

yeah im not spending on finishers on first sb use

so my dps there often swings based on strike crits