subtlety

[ornate lake]

Yes

[broken saffron]

I feel like im doing ZERO damage since the update. Is the new talents played differently?

[ornate lake]

Keybinds? Action bars?

[split garden]

what do I drop for it from the pinned raid and m+ builds?

[meager coyote]

the healing node next to it

[broken saffron]

What do you mean? 😭

[vale arch]

thanks - felt like crap playing without it

also grabbing it again

[broken saffron]

Perhaps everyone else got buffed or something

[dusky yacht]

!optimisation

shit

uhh

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[grim wasp]

who is the best rogue player that streams i need some visuals

cant understand much reading guides

[vale pine]

we swap off premeditation due to cloud cover

thats why

[lilac stag]

It’s fine playing without it. Overreacting is a thing due to 6 seconds of the opener.

!opener

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[grim wasp]

Rotation after?

[sturdy mortar]

I ain't trying to start no drama, but its the big fish. 1000% headcannon

wait actually idk if they stream lmao

[grim wasp]

Cant see anyone by this name

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[kind edge]

!fuu

[grim wasp]

Used to have visual guides back in my days now its some ai slop articles

[placid blade]

Do skyfury procs have a chance to proc sht?

[sturdy mortar]

scratch what I said, idk who streams in here. I think Charrend streams because I remember watching a couple times, but Char doesn't just play sub, still cracked though. But idk if Ryldd (big fish headcannon) streams.

[sullen hare]

Erm? It's not ai slop we have the people that handwrite the guides in here and they chat all the time

Unless you're talking about a certain website that was obviously just ai slop

[grim wasp]

Im speaking on general when checking on websites not here

[sullen hare]

I'm talking about the wowhead, icyveins, and method website guides

[grim wasp]

Yeah exactly

[sullen hare]

Fuu, Eleem, and Stealthi are all chatters here

[grim wasp]

I know all very helpful

[vale pine]

all 3 guides are written by hand, no ai

[grim wasp]

I think i will list all questions i got maybe i will get some clarity

[sullen hare]

I don't report all the typos because I think they're quaint

[vale pine]

you can dm me any typo

i am happy to fix ^^

[grim wasp]

Let me read through everything and get a list of question im confused im lacking like 20k dps

[sullen hare]

Maybe I think the imperfection has charm

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[sullen hare]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[sullen hare]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[sullen hare]

That ought to get like HALF of them

[finite lynx]

!log

[winged blaze]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700) > Critical Strike = Mastery > Versatility`

[ornate lake]

Drop the utility nodes next to it? Ephermeral bond i guess

[meager coyote]

God I love you right now

[half comet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

big fish

im not sure any of the sub gamers are both playing sub and streaming it atm

there's the russian guy for keys for sure

charrend has some vods for sub in raid actually

[half loom]

Is it 18% haste we want? or 700 value. thought it was 18% but keep seeing 700 here

[swift tinsel]

700 value

[glass copper]

https://tenor.com/view/the-interview-james-franco-david-skylark-same-but-different-but-still-same-gif-4956158

[swift tinsel]

any haste granted by flat % does not contribute to Deepening

just haste rating (the actual stat number)

[keen dome]

Which is why the raw value is so important to any kind of discussion around it.

[swift tinsel]

^

[keen dome]

'Cos you could be a Night Elf and have 1% bonus that doesn't count

[swift tinsel]

or Power Infusion/Lust granting haste % doesn't count as well

[ashen warren]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusty quartz]

How do you recraft for only 20 crests?

[timid rose]

going from a 285 crafted to 6/6 myth piece in the same slot only costs 20 myth crests

or to take a 1/6 myth, because you get discount up to 5/6

[dusty quartz]

ah

[spice matrix]

I stream raid Tuesday’s and Wednesday US

[bitter halo]

Is raidbots reflecting the proper breakpoint for haste now?

[vale pine]

serialos asked for detials a few days ago, i don't know if raidbots implemented a solution

[haughty heart]

did they really fix the 30 energy bug?? omg

WTFFFF

[final agate]

Yes, from what we can tell they have.

[keen dome]

They also said they have in a blue post

[vale pine]

they did

[solar glen]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[prime mortar]

Coming back on this, that mean a full gcd?
I can't macro Guideon with SB and press my SD macro right away?
I'm in my early 30s, it'll prolly take one second anyway

[vale pine]

es

yes

i mean a full sec earlier

let me explain why

deepening shadows updates in a set interval

[prime mortar]

Cause it is bugged on deepening shadow no?

[vale pine]

depending on this interval you will get or not get the extended duration

[prime mortar]

yeah read the bug list... What a shame

[vale pine]

so if you use the trinket and dance very shortly after

you hope that the update happened before you casted dance

but you gamble

this interval can take up to one sec

so ideally you just use guidon 1 sec before

your luck is

guidon is off gcd

so you can use it with the spell just before

[prime mortar]

I've been maining outlaw since BFA. I'm already a gambling addict, so don't worry

[vale pine]

haha ^^

[final agate]

Hopefully they fix this

[prime mortar]

For how long this bug exist?

[peak ice]

Isn’t it just the delay from you pressing the button to the server updating your stats

[final agate]

Because if that's "working as intended" your design is crap.

[prime mortar]

Btw, if you type Light's potential in a macro, how does it work? use the highest rank first?

i'll use my 4 lines macro, it does the trick.

[night sparrow]

Pretty sure it's a bag thingy, depending on where u position your consumables it will use one or another. If anyone can confirm

[shrewd lantern]

I got the outlaw mace from xenas bonus

[vale pine]

it isn't a bug

it is how its implemented

[sharp bolt]

also don't forget to put the conjured version before, so if those are in your bags, it will always prioritise them first.
/use Fleeting Light's Potential
/use Light's Potential

[vale pine]

they would need to change the implementation

[peak ice]

Just put guidon on a seperate macro with pre?

[vale pine]

yes

[peak ice]

Ez

[vale pine]

you put it on a seperate bind

and just use it one sec before you go into your big cooldowns

[sharp bolt]

ive had luck using them as fast as possible as long as the trinket is in the first key press. then again, I have very low latency, so I'm sure thats a factor

[prime mortar]

ngl i raw dogged it way more

[peak ice]

It breaking shroud is kinda unfortunate

[prime mortar]

/use item:245898
/use item:245897
/use item:241308
/use item:241309

[prime mortar]

So it's a feature, not a bug then :p

[vale pine]

its a consequence of a design decision

which can be as impactful as a bug

let me explain what i mean with a diffrent example

deepening also extends your shadow dance time

it does so in small increments

so you can get 8.1 or 8.2 sec of shadow dance for example

but this 0.1 or 0.2 sec is super short

and it is short enough to not be able to fit another spell into it

so, in order to fix this problem

we start to use a macro, thats why we use dance + secret as a macro basically

this makes sure we have the best chance to hit the last spell

if its a low-ish .x number

BUT why is it designed this way?

instead of giving 0.1 and 0.2

why not just give full 1 sec increments

so you would just round it up every time

[final agate]

My thoughts exactly.

[vale pine]

instead of 8.2 sec you would have 9 sec

and this would change the dynamic

instead of hoping to fit the last spell

[final agate]

But that approach would make sense. It always boggles my mind when a dev/design team does that.

[vale pine]

you actually have a buffer that allows you to have a bit of wiggle room

[final agate]

.5-1 easy.

[vale pine]

its just one example

and many design decisions fallow this pattern

like, we do like cloud cover, right?

think its generally accepted as a good addition

because it increases our burst damage, so more damage and burst is nice

but if we just look back a few months

[peak ice]

sorry for another question, but Are you still running premed after the changes or did you swap to bond?

[vale pine]

we had a spell that did the same thing

[vale pine]

we run without premed

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[vale pine]

the reason we don't use it are these bugs

[vale pine]

^ flagellation did the same thing cloud cover does now

but okay, it was a additional button

[prime mortar]

Abd a bit of a pain to use

[vale pine]

just like distract was 🤔

[prime mortar]

Like, here it's just press get free damage

[vale pine]

so, we can maybe agree here

you could just merge the effect to blades?

what would change then?

[void ocean]

many classes have small cd and a big cd, assa e.g, fdk, unh dk

flag could've been small cd

[vale pine]

well you would not have the two things this change introduced

• A ground aoe and particle effect that obfuscates your sight

[void ocean]

flag could've been 45 sec cd

[limber folio]

feels like im kind of falling off somewhere, 17 mt

[vale pine]

• A positional requirement to stand in the zone shortly before it expires

so what blizz did was

they took out flagellation

[void ocean]

kudos to that brother fdk

[vale pine]

and then gave us back a shittier version

[limber folio]

btw fuu

[void ocean]

dunno from where he pulled that dps

[limber folio]

the cloud

you reset it as long as youre standing in it?

[vale pine]

yes

[limber folio]

i thought i read you had to run out and in

alr

[vale pine]

no

[limber folio]

i mean then im just gonna sit in it anyways

[vale pine]

you can stand in it

[peak ice]

Feel like keeping up with devourer and dk is pretty solid

[limber folio]

nah they were pretty lukewarm

[dry flame]

I think im qutting outlaw... i just can't do it. I average 20-40k less than either sub or assa :/

[peak ice]

Ah

[vale pine]

thats what i wrote on wowhead for the explenation

[limber folio]

i mean so am i

tbf

[sonic quail]

Smh my head

[vale pine]

i need to remove the last part

or re-write

just notice

[peak ice]

Is there a rough value for the damage loss caused by premed?

[vale pine]

*noticed

now only you see it (fixed)

XD

[void ocean]

.5%

[sharp bolt]

So the cloud cover effects last for 10 seconds after exiting the cloud. Does this reset if we reenter the cloud before it expires?

[peak ice]

Oh really

[void ocean]

dunno bout u guys but so many things feel crangled about sub

so far i played assa, sub, fdk and unh and only sub rotation feels weird and sweaty

[peak ice]

I think it feels pretty good most of the time

Does feel like I’m working harder for my damage than like the dh though idk

[void ocean]

just the fact u gotta use trinket ~1 sec prior to ur burst is a bad start

[lilac stag]

so normal sub gameplay.

[void ocean]

then using ss on full cp to trigger apex

then trying to fit that 2nd sec tech then managing haste and cut offs

[vale pine]

subtlety has some nouances

[peak ice]

I find it more engaging that assa tbh

Going back to it feels like I’m just watching dots

[vale pine]

but most of them come from design issues or bugs

haha

[void ocean]

id take old nimble over this cloud any day of the week and twice on Sunday

[final agate]

The core kit for Sub makes sense. How the implemented the interactions/bugs make it so we gotta work harder.

[peak ice]

I kinda miss combat rogue from frozen but like rose tinted glasses etc

[fading whale]

having both wouldnt put us near demo or dh still

[void ocean]

dunno bout fixed dh

they r still bugged afaik

[compact pollen]

I very much enjoy sub in midnight, by its core. I do not like the cloud because it does make certain things hard to see in m+ like fire tornados in spire

[void ocean]

positively

[peak ice]

Didn’t it get fixed last patch?

[void ocean]

i didnt see it in blue post but then again i might havent even check for it

[final agate]

Dh got fixed, pretty sure.

[peak ice]

I thought that was why they got the like 8% buff because they fixed that interaction

[void ocean]

i mean they r new spec thats understandable

every time new class/spec was added it was op

[final agate]

Yup

[void ocean]

and warlocks are warlocks

[final agate]

Gotta pad the numbers.

[pure cloud]

My udk is doing more damage now which is nice and was needed

[fading whale]

sub rogue feels miserable in 18 and higher

[peak ice]

Wouldn’t say no to a buff to atrophic poison though

[void ocean]

yea, i tried fdk for a few days while udk was bugged and just couldnt pull the numbers

boss dmg great but large pulls just not the same feel

[final agate]

An even 5% Dr would be nice. To start

[void ocean]

and im fdk player more than im unh

[limber folio]

does anyone know where the standalone warcraftlogs uploader is

[peak ice]

Just make it work more than half the time

[limber folio]

archon or the overwolf version just wants to sell my data to like 800 different companies

[fading whale]

its builtin into artchon now

[limber folio]

no i asked for standalone

[fading whale]

i dont think theres wlogs app now

[limber folio]

😠

[fading whale]

may be wrong

but i couldnt find it myself either

[tidal marsh]

You can get this thing at the bottom of the Archon App page

[sullen hare]

I probably have the binary downloaded because mine is up to date ish

Oh nvm peters is probably good

[tidal solstice]

ok first of all wow WW pumps when geared and 2nd.
how the f did the tnak do more than the dev

[sullen hare]

Maybe the vore dh was just ass

[tidal solstice]

yeh they were lol

[sullen hare]

Tank damage looks about where it should be

[upper narwhal]

Nah bro they just needed to ramp bro just a little more ramp and they will pump

[tidal solstice]

the monk and tank were guildies and in nearly full mythic gear

[oak sorrel]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[tidal solstice]

mine was low cause this tank kept doing insane pulls off route and then we timed pit in 17 minutes lol

[oak sorrel]

okay so im actually a fucking idiot

[tidal solstice]

kept sweerving me hard

[oak sorrel]

this whole time ive been shadowstriking on full cp to get ancient arts up the entire time during every dance

[burnt tide]

WW is padding a lot tho

[finite lynx]

i should never be using shadow dance without sec tech, right?

[sullen hare]

Who knows maybe that'll be a cook later in the expansion because of a bug

[oak sorrel]

lmfao

[sullen hare]

But for now only super charged ones please

[oak sorrel]

i noticed that when i looked at the sim API for one of my topgear runs it double-eviscing sometimes

so i was confused because i thought you were supposed to always evis with aa during dance/opener

[empty bobcat]

you should never use sectec without dance

[oak sorrel]

i stopped doing that and my opener dmg went up a lot lmao

[finite lynx]

can i use dance without sectec tho?

[oak sorrel]

you shouldn't ever need to

[empty bobcat]

depends I do in M+

[finite lynx]

im thinking m+ scenarios on a large aoe pull

is it worth to send shadow dance without sectec?

[oak sorrel]

if you can't get 2nd sectec in blades it's fine to dance without it

[tidal solstice]

every so often i do if the pack is gonna be dead in 5-6 seconds, ive got a dance up but sectech still has 9 seconds and then there is some RP or somethin, ill blast the dance to fnish the pack faster

[oak sorrel]

ye

[finite lynx]

i see

[sullen hare]

When the boss is at 2% and sectec is 5 seconds away?? Yeah absolutely

[tidal solstice]

otherwise i hold dance for sec tec

[oak sorrel]

just like

make sure there's always gonna be a dance available for the next pack so ur not sitting with sectec up for 5+ seconds not being used

and pls dont sectec without dance lmao

[finite lynx]

the situation im thinking of specifically is on big pulls in m+ after you've sent shadow blades, puzzle box, and 2 sec tecs

like for the sake of dmg would you delay a sec tec a few seconds until the next shadow dance is up so that you can keep blasting

[void ocean]

what puzzle box

[peak ice]

Aa puzzle

[void ocean]

is it even possible to send 2 sec techs with puzzle box

[tidal solstice]

THE puzzle box?

[void ocean]

id say only with lust?

[peak ice]

Probably depends on your gate no?

Haste

[void ocean]

well how big can the gate be without any haste trinket

[peak ice]

Isn’t that why it’s 800 haste without trink

[void ocean]

i dont think 800 haste is enough for 2nd sec tech

i have 735 haste and when i use hc feather which is 600+ haste i get 2nd sec tech at the end of 2nd dance

with lust i have it supercharged

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sullen glen]

Is it bad to macro blades/SD/SecT together? I know to pop guideon prior to that but just wondering if I should separate blades on its own

[earnest crane]

i just dont know which spec i should play outlaw sub and ass are the same in overall and ppl say outlaw is the best option which feels the worst

[sullen hare]

Yes

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[sullen glen]

Gotcha thanks

[sullen hare]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[vale pine]

probably should remove trinkets from the cooldowns macro

[sullen hare]

Probs bobs

[mental saddle]

is sub ok for dragons mytthic? or swap to outlaw/assa?

[vale pine]

hmm

i mean its only blades

so you could technically use it before dance

but still sounds inefficient

[sullen hare]

Pretty sure either is fine. Don't know if outlaw likes that fight

[hexed wave]

love this spec

[shrewd lantern]

you have st on most orb spawns

[sweet meteor]

What is the exact haste breakpoint? Is it 700 on the dot?

[shrewd lantern]

684

[dusky yacht]

[sweet meteor]

Ok. Then if I use haste flask I'll be 10 over and can use the M star band that I just got

[dusky yacht]

Should be fine, I'm at 687 and alright for now

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah you can i just dont

[dusky yacht]

It's a tight fit but we do our best

[shrewd lantern]

because i never flask for vault keys

[jade oasis]

i go DS on vorasius and salad bar?

[shrewd lantern]

not with cloudcover change

[jade oasis]

oh

kk

was reading through pins was getting lost

so how come we’re no longer macroing blades and dance

[shrewd lantern]

you can have one?

i have two binds

I have sd st, sb sd st macros

and seperate sd/sb binds

[final agate]

Same.

[bitter halo]

Exact haste breakpoint is 684?

[shadow urchin]

breakpoint is when you get extra global

depends on how human you are

[sullen hare]

Inshallah DS is dead again

[vale pine]

oh no, you now play trickster everywhere

[jade oasis]

god bless

[chilly tree]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[grim wasp]

Used another core gonna keep the 5th one i think 4 is enough for a week

[earnest crane]

question of the day this is NXP 17s overall tell me who is the tank 😄

[upbeat cradle]

It was Competing for sure

And Annihilation was a devourer that always meta'd at the end of pack

[earnest crane]

nah it was vengence 😄

132k tank overall

[half comet]

can someone post their sim anyone around like 280ilvl

just want to compare something

[earnest crane]

i m 279 if its ok with u

[half comet]

ya thats fine

[earnest crane]

dungeon or raid

[half comet]

raid 1T

[quaint lodge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fz2evTmW5A4K1F8ABBsFbR

[earnest crane]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9fRQ6GMxcuQKe3gQYpoQi4

[unkempt pasture]

what setting do we need to change to make the cloud cover talent not as visible for us

[hazy breach]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1465400109041713224/1493270537026273560/image.png?ex=69ee2e0f&is=69ecdc8f&hm=2196c4c3b3cc771911a0c215fb95352270ecc989a3900aab2d9d4d1d729779f5&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=258&height=156

[jade oasis]

he’s thanos wtf

[hazy breach]

Save this one instead, it turns out deepening does not care about diminishing returns

[earnest crane]

nerftank him self

never had 5 min extra on Npx

[eternal light]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[lapis ridge]

Do we still have to delay using everything for 1 second after using guidons or can it be sent instantaneously?

[vale pine]

you can send guidon off gcd, so don't need to delay anything

just plan right

[crimson thorn]

Is the premed bug solved? I m seeing lot of people using it again

[hazy breach]

Its not a bug

But no, people just prefer using it

[crimson thorn]

Oh ok

[brittle imp]

its NOT a bug???

[quaint lodge]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[brittle imp]

[hazy breach]

You dont expend any shadow technique stacks

So you cannot proc the first ancient arts

[brittle imp]

I read that as "its a bug" in its entiredy...

[brittle imp]

makes sense if you think about it... it... still plays strange without premed 🙁

[stable maple]

I have a question for puzzle box since it doesnt line up with shadowblades all the time how do i go about using it with out feeling like im wasting it or holding

[hazy breach]

You treat it like a 3 minute trinket, holding it for shadowblades

[stable maple]

so hold it till it line sup

[ancient leaf]

whats the best bonus roll for sub? in m+ i had a 3rd coin 2 coins I used for first boss myth voidspire

[tribal blade]

did you get guidon yet?

oh i suppose it's fine to send your 3rd coin

depends on your gear

[ancient leaf]

nope

[tribal blade]

i'm bonus rolling nexus point for the ring set

some people are doing iirc skyreach/pit

[ancient leaf]

is the ring set even worth it

[tribal blade]

it's free damage

and the stats are good for sub

if you adjust your gear/crafts to play around the ring set

you get a free ~0.5% dmg

the big crit small haste ring is also good for sin

prob good for outlaw too

[ancient leaf]

im sub otp

[kind edge]

If i 800 haste, i can fit 2 sectech inside blades?

[swift tinsel]

well I can check pit bracers off the list too

fully upgraded myth are within margin of hc vora bracers with socket lol

[jade oasis]

so theres nothing wrong with using

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique
/use Light's Potential

right?

[ancient leaf]

if i have leftover coins do they reset next week?

[tribal blade]

no

[dreamy stump]

hello guys
are there ppl here that are pushing 17/18 ? if yes how do you sim ? for st or for dslice

[tribal blade]

dslice

[astral axle]

hmm sometimes I've had this odd bug happen where my CDM says that my dance has ended. It looks like I'm not able to press strike. But I also can't start a new dance

Has anyone else experienced this?

[dreamy stump]

aight thanks

[astral axle]

maybe im a moron

[scarlet latch]

My rogue friend is doing a lot less dmg after the patch but allegedly updated his talents, are rogues downbad or is only a certain rogue downbad

[somber sun]

only a certain

[scarlet latch]

🫡

[plush roost]

I cant confirm it but i think the cdm has like a slight inconsistency to it where it can be early or late

Ive striked .2 after dance "ends" and missed .2 before it "ends"

[astral axle]

sorry clacky noise forgot to mute mic

like at about 15 sec in

Im not able to dance (im spamming it not macro'd to anything) and strike is also grey on action bars

i wonder if it is me pressing trinket -> dance too quickly or something and the game thinks the duration of my dance is longer than it is?

[pastel geyser]

did people stop playing sub in keys

[coral canyon]

Confused about sim. Telling me to get more crit, at the expense of reaching 650+ Haste. Do I listen to sim or get haste first?

[astral axle]

here it is again w/o clacky keyboard noise :] any ideas what might be going on here? weird "dead zone" of like 2-3 seconds where I can't enter dance, despite not being in dance.

[astral axle]

haste around 700 is more comfy, the sim will say lower because of computer stuff

[pine viper]

703 haste with oils

im boutta coom

[jade oasis]

parsing on

imperator

is impossible

unethical boss

[somber sun]

he is fine

I hate the fkin 3 paladins

[tender heron]

Hey chat, I've been playing rogue for a little bit and this is my first time playing rogue, first time raiding, first time m+'ing, sounds funny but could I get a mentor or something to hop in vc with me and make sure im doing my rotation and stats right and stuff? If not I understand, tysm 😄

(Tomorrow some time cause it's 3am rn xD)

[jade oasis]

black powder shadowstrike

[somber sun]

xddd

because they will be perma stacked right ?

[ripe kestrel]

Going from Sub to OL rough, went from tracking 3 abilities to 9 lol

[outer orchid]

i think OL is going to be my "for fun" spec

i don't see myself using it during prog unfortunately

[somber sun]

yeah, kind of spec you gotta start from level 1 with

ngl

[outer orchid]

easier to manage sin and sub while learning/worrying about killing the boss rather than having fun

it was my main spec for a long time until my long break

this xpac i've been almost fully sub

awkward to go back but it already sims almost 10% better but thats with perfect uptime

which during prog

i will NOT have

reclear i'll probably send it

[thorn sundial]

does this always happen?

i mean if u use trink 1 sec before and that fixes it, i would just get uses to that. otherwise is it still there if no macro?

[hazy breach]

I think whats happening is that the check for when dance ends includes the haste from guidon but because you danced before deepening updated the actual duration of the dance did not benefit

Ive seen people mention it since the patch and i guess its an attempt at fixing the "cant macro" issue that didnt quite pan out

[outer orchid]

its habit for me now to wait almost 1s after pressing guidon

strictly because of that garbage

[thorn sundial]

ye i just use it like 1-2 gcds before

[outer orchid]

feels bad to do in practice but i'd take it over losing blades damage

[thorn sundial]

yep really stupid bug

[astral axle]

thanks this is helpful

yeah it doesnt happen every time

so must be something with the update thing

weird. ill just be slower

[astral axle]

ty yeah spot on like eleem was sayin

[jade oasis]

guys im parsing tonight

i almost have

90% avg in myth

im so excited

[thorn sundial]

nice gj

[trail bison]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[hoary orchid]

how much Haste should i aim for in M Plus since im with no guidon?

[rain swift]

[jade oasis]

no guidon i think 800

[hoary orchid]

alright ty, was thinking if it would be different from ST

[jade oasis]

get that guidon

[hoary orchid]

oh i have it, but kinda sucks in MPlus

running radiant plume and gaze

[half comet]

if shadowblades has any more than 10 seconds on its cooldown youd send dance plus sectec and just sit on blades till sectec is up again

right

[jade oasis]

thats what i do

[somber sun]

second dance within the last 8sec of blades

[bitter halo]

Apologies for the silly question but I just want to make sure. You only use shadow dance when sectec is ready? If on CD just use out of stealth rotation and only use a second dance in SB?

[tribal blade]

ok practicing no premed+PE in heroic

this isn't so bad

more annoying than premed+WS

but not as bad as 1st day i tried it

[shrewd lantern]

its really not that bad

just opener is slower

[tribal blade]

i don't prefer it

for sure

but i can live playing it if i have to

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i mean

i'd rather not miss out on clone strikes

especially on rotten ones

[somber sun]

the sim opener is insanely good ngl

works everytime somehow

[naive creek]

The ss --> vanish --> ss?

[somber sun]

yeah

better than the backstab spam at least

[left ledge]

yo

what is up sub rogues

were we aware that cloud cover refreshes itself when the smoke runs out

[final agate]

Yup.

[left ledge]

that should absolutely stay

[shrewd lantern]

hasnt it always

or something im missing

it was 10s in the cloud+10 after no?

[final agate]

Mhmm.

Each time you leave and reenter it will also refresh, so if you gotta move for mechs and shit.

[graceful rock]

Yeah is that not design?

[shrewd lantern]

im pretty sure thats the intended design

[final agate]

Yup, makes sense..

Pretty sure they have no plans to remove it.

[tribal blade]

i still think the cloud should be on your character

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/peanuts-pig-pen-dirty-charlie-brown-dance-gif-4602316

[final agate]

Rogues do be grungy.

[somber sun]

and make it be seen by the tank

[random mason]

I really missed out on griefing keys with it

Kinda sad about that

[final agate]

So what's the issue in groups? I have used it and haven't heard a thing.

[random mason]

Used to be seen by everyone

Which could make ground effects very hard to see

[shrewd lantern]

which was a pvp op thing

making healers think its los

[random mason]

It could also kill your group in m+ if u popped it right when some AoE spam started

Maisara toad rain or whatever its called for example

[final agate]

Interesting

[shrewd lantern]

i have run maisara

a grand total of 2x

this season

[random mason]

I still need to run it to get a hero track belt

[shrewd lantern]

once for portal

other gave me a hero socket helm

[random mason]

So i can save 20 myth crests on the belt i got from first vault

[shrewd lantern]

this is why i hate taking m+ vaults

when raid is 1-2 tracks higher

[random mason]

Think ill reclear hc on main tomorrow so i can get a belt finally

[shrewd lantern]

i need over 300 myth crests

to upgrade all the gear i own rn

[random mason]

I was hoping the new vendor would give us items by socket, but its literally just random hero item

Im not farming 500 token for that

[shrewd lantern]

gonna feel bad for loot council

if i pull a socket belt from vault

[random mason]

I dont feel bad for them

They should give me more loot

[shrewd lantern]

prob low value since most leather crafted a belt this ssn

alot of leather are haste mast rn

[random mason]

Resto druid in my guild got the only leather belt we dropped so far

Chimaerus one on hero

[shrewd lantern]

i've seen the chim belt on myth in vault

like 3-4x

passed them all since better option

[random mason]

I got pit belt with socket

So i just crafted wrists instead

[shrewd lantern]

better belt technically

since its more even statted

[random mason]

But its still fucking 272

[shrewd lantern]

also socket mean its going to last a long time

[random mason]

Socket means im most likely not taking it off

[shrewd lantern]

i pulled a socket belt from my hero delve map

week 1

it still hasnt come off

[random mason]

I mean its myth track

My belt

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i got a myth belt in my bags but it has no hole

so its just worse at 6/6 hero level

than a hero socket

[left ledge]

It did not refresh itself after the smoke bomb ended before while you were outside of it

Currently, if you blades, then just walk out of the bomb, you will start the timer, but once the smoke bomb ends, whether or not you have re-entered, it will refresh the buff

You pretty much always have 20 sec of the buff uptime

[shrewd lantern]

oh

i thought you'd have it regardless if you were in at the end

[left ledge]

Nope, I have a log that can show it wasn't like that

the buff shouldn't have been removed until 24.736

(if it functioned like it is currently)

[shrewd lantern]

was that tuesday

[left ledge]

yes

[shrewd lantern]

hmm maybe then

[left ledge]

the energy hotfix brought this in

not sure how

[shrewd lantern]

probably some coding thing

lowkey i feel pvp complaints accelerated the visual being disabled

[left ledge]

distract was in there like a mfer huh

[shrewd lantern]

for other people

because making a healer spend 1-2 gcds running into it often mattered

[tribal blade]

can anyone TLDR how to set up northern sky lura memory game

we're in heroic

and our RL isn't here

and they still ahven't set it up

[sturdy mortar]

there is a github link in NS

[tribal blade]

oh is this actually gonna be complicated to set up

F

[sturdy mortar]

Go to the github link, grab the zip file in the "code" drop down bar (green button) and then put it in your interface/Icons folder. (I am pretty sure there is a vid link on the NS add on too, but not entirely sure)

relaunch game and use the "create macros" button under the encounter alert

just checked there is a youtube vid link under encounter alerts to explain what to do, but I wrote it out, it is a bit complicated since the macros have to be pressed in the order they get assigned, it might not be the play to try and set it up during raid @tribal blade

[analog hearth]

Any workarounds for the shadow dance bug where it just does not activate even when spammed?

[tribal blade]

yeah there's no way we're getting that set up right now

i'm still confused how my guild hasn't set this up yet

[sturdy mortar]

ima be honest, I think everyone has to do it, at least that's what the video recommended. It just changes the icons to the right ones, otherwise they just look like pants and belts

[warm marlin]

everyone needs icons

only 5 need macros

usually mt and 4 healers

[white nova]

Any tips on chimaerus? Do we have a good time to use our stuff that does not overlap with some sort of add phase? I am dumb

[somber sun]

just get assigned to the second group

[white nova]

lol

[somber sun]

you dump all your stuff on the boss while the other group deals with adds

and by then you should have shadowdance and sectec up to finish them

after that shadow blades should be up for another rotation on chim

[white nova]

ty

[lilac stag]

Have one person just shot call and 5 people put down markers.

[tribal blade]

omfg i forgot to swap back to WM and rotten for crown heroic

still parsed 98

with PP and finality talented

[tribal blade]

we just call out the order

in disc

[lilac stag]

Yea

[tribal blade]

kinda cancer

[lilac stag]

I got h plume for outlaw setup tonight

Still chasing neck

[tribal blade]

NICE

imagine this crown parse if i remembered to talent back into rotten and WM

[lilac stag]

I swear outlaw bugs out at times. Not sure on what. At one point was hitting cleave dummies for 56k dps with jackpot rolling.

Reload and back to 200k +

[tribal blade]

oh weird

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

I got griefed. MW forgot they were melee and didn’t run out in p3

someone lusted on pull for scrambled eggs

[sullen shell]

!Premeditation

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[stray oyster]

Vanguard makes rogue feel so bad, great job to blizz

[lilac stag]

It makes melee feel bad.

[short radish]

rogue not me but yeah

[lilac stag]

I’m one of 3 melee in for our prog.

[short radish]

good fight

good balance

[tribal blade]

how do you specifically check egg dmg on beloren

on logs

[rugged condor]

P2

[lucid jackal]

Just stage 2 damage

[tribal blade]

AH ool

[short radish]

ah ah ah ook ook

[short radish]

good fight

good balance

[jade oasis]

wait wait wait

[jade oasis]

100k less

[lilac stag]

Have you thought about getting (a) better (class to play)?

[jade oasis]

i did want to play dk this patch

i really did

but atrophic matters bro

its huge!!!!

[lilac stag]

the one fight it matters on now is so shit for melee.

I’m very disappointed my outlaw bros are letting assa dominate vanguard.

[quaint lodge]

whyd i catch a stray

i was raid leading man

[short radish]

i didn't name names

[topaz crown]

yo how bad is it to have 2 on use trinkets? i have both feather and puzzle box

and no gaze or light company trinket

[short radish]

bad

use pbox and crucible (renown) trinket

[topaz crown]

damn

is it bad because its too much hassle?

with cd line ups

[short radish]

kinda yeah

[topaz crown]

i've been following my sims

[short radish]

like you still do damage out of cooldowns

in dance

and having 2 half trinkets vs 1trinket + half trinket

is kinda bad

[topaz crown]

this what i get

[short radish]

yeah because heart of the wind is also bad

[vagrant fulcrum]

It’s bad because you’re using half a trinket every cd set

A second on use can’t ever use it’s on use with dm

[short radish]

sim this

[vagrant fulcrum]

A passive trinket can still proc

[topaz crown]

damn did i really just waste my crests on this feather then

😭

[vagrant fulcrum]

So you’re comparing 3/4 trinket benefit

[short radish]

yes and no

[vagrant fulcrum]

Nah not at all

[short radish]

mostly no

[vagrant fulcrum]

You can just upgrade your next passive trink for free

[shrewd lantern]

double on use has rarely been good

[topaz crown]

damn :D

[short radish]

yeah

[topaz crown]

i didnt do the tree though

fuck me

[short radish]

tree?

[topaz crown]

voidlust buffs

[short radish]

go do them

you can max out that trinket in 2 weeks anyway

[shrewd lantern]

101 not a terrible patchwerk sim

[topaz crown]

what u all get usually?

[alpine wraith]

think im at 109k

[tribal blade]

i got rng'd on heroic lura kill

25% crit on strikes

should be at 40%

i knew i should have just played WS on her

[wicked bear]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[onyx trail]

is premed still busted?

[shrewd lantern]

been busted the entire expac

[alpine wraith]

since they introduced shadowcraft

so uhb

[topaz crown]

are we using light potential prepot? i read somewhre about the potion of recklessness idk if its still bugged

[final agate]

Potential is currently the pot, but sim as usual.

[alpine wraith]

you can try and use the pot that gives extra main stat depending on the fight

[final agate]

Abandon? Yeah, that is also a suggestion as long as the fight is not too mech intensive as you'll be moving to avoid the pools

[woeful gyro]

how is premed busted?

[alpine wraith]

bugged

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[plain karma]

hey maybe a silly question but can sub rogue use any weapon in the oiffhand? like if i craft a second weapon that outlaw can use

[lucid jackal]

Has to be a dagger

[plain karma]

is it an attack speed thing?

[lucid jackal]

Yes

[plain karma]

ok thankyou

[onyx trail]

So if not taking premed only matters with the rotten. Should I take it in M+ as I dont run rotten in AOE?

[shrewd lantern]

it barely matters in aoe

storm gives full

[lucid jackal]

Premed legit only matters in the opener

[alpine wraith]

you also need to pool a bit more sht than usual on normal dances

o try to not proc apex on sec tech

so you have the sht for the second supercharged finisher

but that one is whatever

[gritty crow]

how do i trigger this? is it random with spells

[idle bone]

it got reworked its shadow blades now

[gritty crow]

so as of now, which class is the strongest? outlaw?

[shrewd lantern]

devourer

[gritty crow]

no shit sherlock.

[shrewd lantern]

you said class

:)

[gritty crow]

Yeah, i have to specify you are right, the 2 digits iq aint helping you xd

[shrewd lantern]

I mean that's rich for someone relying on murlok.

But yk

[lucid jackal]

All 3 specs are kinda good rn

Id say sub and outlaw are the best

[shrewd lantern]

the shills will say assa is better

well at certain things it is

[gritty crow]

bruh, whatever site it is, doesnt change anything... the 2 digits again..

[tribal blade]

are you really giving him shit when you asked a question about cloud cover and this is literally in the tooltip

[gritty crow]

i think so to be honest.

[shrewd lantern]

reading is hard

[final agate]

Beat me to it.

[gritty crow]

got alot of shit to give ^ donations are for free

[uncut monolith]

Maxed Crucible vs champ beloren trink guys? Trying sim but trust you more...

[tribal blade]

i'm realizing now the thing you linked said this as well

[shrewd lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/wazowski-mike-mike-sulivan-meme-monster-inc-gif-19634164

i mean ngl if you have to ask what spec to play

you likely dont do above vault keys

so likely sub for instant burst aoe

not like you have to hard commit to any spec in 26

[final agate]

Side note, I get playing the flavor of the month, sure... Why not just play what you find fun? Let's be real, unless you're pushing high keys or mythic raiding... It's viable.

[shrewd lantern]

even mythic raiding you can at ce level

if you're doing high enough prog where spec matters you likely bench rogue entirely

[dusky yacht]

Hey calm down now, maybe he just got distracted

[tribal blade]

iseewhatyoudidthere

[dusky yacht]

I did a funny

[final agate]

Yoru... You get a 🍪

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/TikTokFrance-faim-raccon-jaifaim-UUsuKW0xWRqt8NghfS

[shrewd lantern]

personally i find murlok super stupid for pve content

since its mostly solved

pvpers do some jank shit so its a bit more.....

[gritty crow]

i am not a hardcore player, i dont really know much about specs, started this game in war within S3

[shrewd lantern]

"hardcore player"

cope

[gritty crow]

its just good to always know where i should put my efforts on, specially if my specialization is bad, then i would rather reset and learn something new.

[shrewd lantern]

Calling failing to do basic research hardcore

lmfao

[gritty crow]

Bruh you are still butthurt from the first msg? come on now..

XD

thats not what i call a hardcore, i sent this pic, to point out, that i do something about vault key
But not a hardcore push

[shrewd lantern]

Imagine trying to flex 16s on a piss season

on a fotm spec

holy

[gritty crow]

LOL he is boiling XD

[keen dome]

🤔

[tribal blade]

this 0-100 over nothing is crazy to me

[shrewd lantern]

There's something crazy called playing what you find fun

[tribal blade]

calling him double digit IQ

[gritty crow]

are you his atorney?

[tribal blade]

i don't like bullies

[gritty crow]

Do you find yourself in need to lend him a hand?

i aint bullying no one,i literally tried to speak calmly to him XD

but i guess its hard to read XD

[tribal blade]

CALM

[shrewd lantern]

if performance is all that matters then yeah play what is overtuned

[gritty crow]

Thanks for reapeating my messages ❤️

i love it

[keen dome]

Rogue, hell yeah

[final agate]

Sub rogue specifically

[gritty crow]

tbh i am considering DH at the moment

[final agate]

Then go DH.

It'll probably be overtuned all season

[vestal relic]

you want performance go dh

you want the best rogue

[final agate]

As it's the "face" of the xpac

[vestal relic]

go outlaw

[gritty crow]

Yeah, exactly my thought

[keen dome]

that's not how you spell Subtlety.......

[gritty crow]

how DH is over powered now, makes me believe it will be tuned somehow

[shrewd lantern]

lmao

funny meme

FUNNY

[final agate]

Beat me to it.

[shrewd lantern]

or just play mage

that class is always s tier

[keen dome]

I should get an Outlaw weapon soon.

[gritty crow]

Yo make it a soundboard HAHA

[keen dome]

I wanna play gun gamble mage

[tribal blade]

for the first time in a long time mage is actually not great in keys

[tribal blade]

LOL amazing

[shrewd lantern]

how long will that last

[tribal blade]

TRUE good point

[shrewd lantern]

i already have to listen to mage players bitch in raid

that they dont have 20 defensives

to cycle

[gritty crow]

Mages are solid in raids tho

[vestal relic]

are we in the same guild?

[keen dome]

tell them to build a new dalaran

[vestal relic]

not according to any data in raid

[final agate]

Or get their boy out of that wheelchair

[shrewd lantern]

well they actually have to plan their defensives somewhat

they got kicked off the dk perch of taking a bong rip

and immuning every mechanic

[keen dome]

he's old, he's allowed to be in a cool pinkpurple wheel chair.

[gritty crow]

Bruh, waaat????

[final agate]

Nah. That shit don't even float.

[gritty crow]

na you are trolling at this poin

[shrewd lantern]

the only slack i give dks is they have to grip things almost every boss

[final agate]

As a DK main, yes.

[keen dome]

they wanted this

[shrewd lantern]

i mean true

tweet grip is not a raid buff

blizz makes you have to grip over dps

on every boss

xddd

[vestal relic]

just look at who dies in raid and come back, mage fall over in the majority of the pull (probably because they dont know how to plan defensive but still according to data they suck the floot hard)

[final agate]

They do.

They really do.

[shrewd lantern]

if enhance was fotm

[gritty crow]

Mate, dying is a thing. We are talking about dps

[shrewd lantern]

they'd be too

[gritty crow]

Their DPS is solid.

[shrewd lantern]

but enhance is kinda ehh rn

[final agate]

Can't dps when you're floor tanking bud.

[keen dome]

If you die then you don't do dps so they are inherently linked.

[vestal relic]

dps is pointless when you die 50 % of the pull

[gritty crow]

Na they be cleaning the floor abit but it means nothing

[vestal relic]

damn

now whos 2 digit iq

[shrewd lantern]

the point was mage went from liek having

7 defensives

to a normal human amount

[keen dome]

Normal Human Mage is a funny phrase

[gritty crow]

i mean you are saying Mages are not solid in any data, that speaks volume

[final agate]

Just means they gotta pay more attention instead of ignoring shit. Welcome to the club.

[vestal relic]

well its true

solid means reliable

[alpine wraith]

it is funny because mages have things

[gritty crow]

when in raids, for the most part, a frost mage has a bigger overall DPS than any rogue spec

[alpine wraith]

but have to press them

[vestal relic]

dying 50% of the pull

if not reliable

wdym

[gritty crow]

you are just racist XD if we can use this word here haha

[tribal blade]

it's probably mostly the whole having to plan defensives thing

before they had a button for every single dmg event

[shrewd lantern]

exactly

[final agate]

Now they gotta think

[shrewd lantern]

ngl could you imagine

enh in s1 tww

if aug wasnt meta

mfs would be eating floorpov

so often

[tribal blade]

lol true

[final agate]

Facts

[tribal blade]

it's the entire reason why you couldn't run x2 enhance

even though they were hard gapping everyone by a huge amount

[gritty crow]

yeah now link the dmg meter

[keen dome]

what

[shrewd lantern]

i remember in sv bomba season hunters got asked to link avoidance

[tribal blade]

lol fuck that season holy shit

[shrewd lantern]

real

[tribal blade]

was so hard to push as non destro/sv

most groups would just run double destro 1 sv or the other way around anyways

[shrewd lantern]

but yeah like enhance as crazy as the damage got

you could not stand in shit or else

rip your ankh

[gritty crow]

and for what i know, all rogues specs have the same def mechs, the variation really depends on Who really is counted in this,
If alot of NOOBS playing a spec, this % is not to be considered.

[alpine wraith]

wait no

sub has like 2 more drs than assa

and 1 more than outlaw

there is a reason assa is floor pov

[tribal blade]

sub is way tankier than sin

[final agate]

Yup.

[gritty crow]

in this expansion?

[tribal blade]

yes

[alpine wraith]

yea

[keen dome]

Yes

[shrewd lantern]

always

[tribal blade]

fade to nothing 10% DR has like 30% uptime

if not more

[gritty crow]

na in war within, versa was also focused on

[alpine wraith]

fazed dr too

[gritty crow]

now its neglected so i dont understand ?

[tribal blade]

yeah fazed too

[keen dome]

You should read your talents.

[alpine wraith]

that gets amplified on blades

[short radish]

that's too hardcore

imagine reading talents

absolute sweatlord

[keen dome]

Because while we did lose Versa stacking, we've retained a lot of our actual DR and defensive layering.

[tribal blade]

and then exhilirating execution

[final agate]

Couldn't be me.

[shrewd lantern]

theres a reason sin's leeching poison is stronger

[alpine wraith]

tbh if you read shadowcraft you will understand same

[keen dome]

Sub is weak to rot damage, but our DR is wildly strong.

[alpine wraith]

as the blizz intern that posted the description

[gritty crow]

Hmph, i stand corrected, that does make sense.

[tribal blade]

if we were still able to stack vers

we would be one of the tankiest melee in the game

[gritty crow]

Wait

[shrewd lantern]

vers isnt even bad

lol....

[tribal blade]

i should sim vers

[gritty crow]

attorney.

[tribal blade]

huh

[shrewd lantern]

we're still one of the tankier melee

if the damage isnt rot

[keen dome]

Yeah

[final agate]

Yup.

[keen dome]

Rot is about the only major concern and then it's extremely dangerous

[shrewd lantern]

which is funny because dh

was polar opposite

[keen dome]

also I've gone insane. Oils, Flask, HP pot, damage pot, food.. What am I missing.. I thought there was another item.

[shrewd lantern]

very good with rot but

[short radish]

aug rune

[shrewd lantern]

lmao blur vs giant hit

[short radish]

vantus

[keen dome]

nah fuck that. Not vantus either..

[short radish]

[gritty crow]

Diddy oil.

you are missing that.

gives the weapon agility.

[keen dome]

Look, they're 400 gold a go. That's too much money for 25 agility!

[shrewd lantern]

use the old perma

[short radish]

half a chest enchant

they kinda decent tbh

[keen dome]

They are but eh.

Oh, it was auto-hammers.

[short radish]

????????

[shrewd lantern]

i find it funny how

bubbling wax

is still holding up

[keen dome]

I was trying to recall the consumable I was missing in my raid consumable slot, and was certain it was an actual raid consumable.. but it was not, it was auto-hammers.

[keen dome]

someday they'll stop it scaling with iLevel on the weapon. That day is not the last titan.

[shrewd lantern]

it did more than my instant poison

[uncut juniper]

Feint is the most op defensive in the game

[keen dome]

Feint is cool and good