subtlety

[tribal blade]

and watching their vods

[ornate island]

arent most of them playing either outlaw or sin now?

[tribal blade]

i mean rank 1 as in top tier players

there are a bunch of very high level sub players out there

https://raider.io/characters/eu/howling-fjord/Салатисос?season=season-mn-1 can check out this guy

he's rank 1 sub right now and he's die hard sub

ever since i've been following him he never switches off sub

[alpine wraith]

the big russian power

gotta love the guy

[tribal blade]

i think someone corrected me he's not russian or something

but i have no idea haha

but yeah he's cool

[alpine wraith]

well many languages can use those kinda letters but sadly i only know russian

[tribal blade]

ME TOO

[naive tapir]

he is ru, trust me

[tribal blade]

oh he is? ok

[naive tapir]

nash slavyanin

[tribal blade]

someone got upset at me one time over that in here before

as if i'm supposed to be able to pick all those languages apart

[final copper]

his name means Salad dressing in serbian

but his guild name is definitely russian

[ornate island]

hes at least speaking russian 😄

[naive tapir]

he just changing his nick with cute russian enders of salad

[lyric valley]

does sec tech macro'd with blades not work anymore? I always have to use it again because of cloud cover(?)

[swift tinsel]

!cc

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Blades / Cloud Cover bug:
Talenting into cloud cover gives Shadow Blades a 30 energy cost; this is not intentional and seems to come from the implementation of the talent. It seems to just cast Distract, which costs 30 energy. Make sure to have enough energy before using Shadow Blades.

[naive tapir]

work, just prepare 60 energy

[maiden oar]

i like the cat pfp

[wild vine]

Dark iron dwarf

[swift tinsel]

All credit to @keen dome

[tribal blade]

lol yeah

[maiden oar]

[tribal blade]

as the kids say, he has the rizz

[wild vine]

Also why is he playing Guidon

In m+

[tribal blade]

he's been running guidon this whole time

i would do the same

[golden thunder]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[wild vine]

Maybe he's going for that Boss damage

[tribal blade]

that kinda feels like sub's strong point in keys is having really good ST

[wild vine]

Idk the aoe is kinda alright too ig

[golden thunder]

Do we use this apex optimisation also in aoe/m+?

[tribal blade]

it's not bad

but it's not great

i dunno i see what real specs are doing in dungeons like AA

and i'm like nah

also just casually started playing sin in keys now and did this in a 16 MT

[naive tapir]

but sub still universaly good

u can pump adds y

[wild vine]

Cloud Cover also kinda doesnt help with messy pulls like academy 1st

[naive tapir]

but u will pump boss 10 mins

[tribal blade]

where you lack in aoe dam

you make up for in ST

[wild vine]

Ye sin is really good rn

[naive tapir]

• sub is so "good tank" addict

[tribal blade]

yeah i think sin the play in most dungeons

[naive tapir]

if your tank alltime chain pull etc

[tribal blade]

i can see sub being good in a few

like pit

[naive tapir]

u will be the worst

[wild vine]

Sin is also good in pit tho

[tribal blade]

but i legit started playing sin because trying to use cloud cover with pug tanks is a nightmare

[golden thunder]

What about Outlaw? Is it worth to gamble for 1h or we still hate the pirate thing?

[wild vine]

I kinda felt like I had to cloak on saladhar aswell

[tribal blade]

outlaw is very good

[wild vine]

With the beams

[wild vine]

Still hate

[golden thunder]

Haha

[tribal blade]

but yeah i'm not gonna play outlaw

[obsidian crag]

outlaw has too many tracks for me atm

[wild vine]

Outlaw is just boring

Smashing buttons with a flat profile is eh

[golden thunder]

I played so much sub m+ now that my muscle memory fks up the sin rotation-.-

[tribal blade]

the last time i mained outlaw i would have constant pain in my left arm

from button mashing

[upbeat yarrow]

taht what im stuggling right now

[latent remnant]

I've tried a bit of sin last week and while in big pulls I did okay damage I just felt so useless on bosses

[golden thunder]

But from sub my thumb also hurts from stretching it out while smashing e and 3 haha

[crystal bone]

i cant be fucked playin with my cdm to add their extra 5 buttons

[wild vine]

Sin dmg isnt low on bosses tbf

[crystal bone]

[tribal blade]

sin is going beyond okay dmg in big pulls

[wild vine]

Gotta step up your health game fam

[tribal blade]

and the ST is not that bad tbh

[latent remnant]

(I hadn't played it ever before so I really just played it horribly)

[tribal blade]

haha i have a special physical issue

had lots of reconstructive surgery

[wild vine]

Sorry to hear, but atleast you got a real excuse to not play outlaw then

Which is a plus

[tribal blade]

HAHA true i actually never thought about it that way

[wild vine]

Maybe one day if they finally rework it to duelist

[haughty drum]

Since discord is popping. Can someone answer this.
Blades not on pull or lust
20 seconds
Sectec dance.
Do you still use second dance at 8 seconds to line up ? Even with the next sectec coming around 2 seconds left in blades?

And if so do you send the sectec then because next dance is 10 seconds away

[maiden oar]

its already de pirated

highwayman kind of guy now

[uneven rampart]

What does the new opener look like since we aren't taking premed anymore? backstab until full combo points and then start the normal opener?

[wild vine]

Yes, as per guide and the faq

[wild vine]

Still weird somehow

[golden thunder]

I feel like it is better to dance immediately to spend more time in the cloud ... but it's just my feeling

[tiny blaze]

Maybe Shadowstrike - Vanish - Shadowstrike instead of just backstabbing?

[haughty drum]

Well that sounds like your talking about the opener. The opener lines up great to me usually because most lust on pull

[uneven rampart]

that sounds like a good idea, ill have to test on a dummy and see

[tribal blade]

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[placid crown]

With all the items I have in my bags, my best sim for single target is to be at 628 haste, 1200 crit, 700 mastery, 78 vers

(with crit flask, simming better than mastery flask)

[uneven rampart]

Didn't know this was a thing thank you! I actually just ran a sim and see this was what it did also.

[hazy breach]

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[placid crown]

shadowstrike > vanish > shadowstrike > NE vanish > shadowstrike > boom

[haughty drum]

Yea I checked that. Opener works great. But sectec at like 2 seconds remaining didn’t make sense at the subsequent blades after first (no lust)

But I guess it means send it anyway with 2 seconds left

[uneven rampart]

Is vanish not on the gcd? Could I macro shadowstrike to it? On sim it shows they are both used at the same exact time

[placid crown]

nah does not work

[uneven rampart]

I didnt think so, but wasnt sure

[placid crown]

it will make you do a backstab instead of strike if you press it too fast after vanish

[craggy fractal]

I was wondering :
If I send sectech with like 1 sec left on dance, will the 2nd hit of sectech be boosted by the dance that just ended ? Like is the boost applying when you press the sectech button or does dance need to be active for every hit of sectech ?

[swift tinsel]

You need to cast Sectech before dance duration is at 1.2sec

So if you cast at 1.0 sec the 2nd clone hit is not buffed

[placid crown]

Sectec is in 2 parts or 3 parts nowadays ?

[swift tinsel]

Bc clone hits are at 0.6 and 1.2 sec after phys hit

3

One phys two clones

[craggy fractal]

ok thats what I was expecting even tho it sucks

[shell vector]

Is there a way to force raidbots to sim me at a specific haste floor? It keeps telling me to drop to like 500 haste which afaik is not the move

[swift tinsel]

I’m on team Make Sectech One Big Shadow Hit

Can have the same animation just for frills

If they so choose

[short radish]

@tribal blade do you know if wound poison works on shrieking mini boss in WR?

[karmic harbor]

what's the highest people are simming these days?

[short radish]

WS*

[karmic harbor]

im at 110k

[tribal blade]

not sure sorry

i'm a filthy casual key pusher now 😉

[fossil forge]

wthelly

[somber sun]

kinda normal nah ?

[white nova]

Apologies for potentially stupid question. In opener, why do we shadow dance before shadow blades?

[boreal cargo]

Pretty sure we dont

[quaint breach]

Does sectec clones "move" with us or are they stuck where cast. Unless it's just a debuff thingy

[white nova]

That’s why I was really confused

[timid rose]

I think since they are off gcd you are really pressing them at the same time

Along with the sectec

[white nova]

Ah. Also, no premed takes a lot of getting used to

Thanks for clarity

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter which order theyre put in

As long as both dance+blades are before secret technique youre good

[hazy breach]

Why wouldnt sectech at the end make any sense? Ye sure its not supercharged but if you wait and send a dance afterwards you have to send a sectech without dance later as theyre desynced

During the opener with lust you'd want to supercharge the sectech as its cooldown is like 12s or so, but the timing is pretty much the same as other blades windows

[haughty drum]

Ty

[haughty drum]

Well someone else pointed it out that sectec is still boosted by blades.

I was just under the impression you wanted dance and sectec to be lined up perfectly to get the most out of them. I reckon with blades it doesn’t matter as much

[fast dome]

are we super bugged? I just watched a video claiming that rogues are the most bugged class this patch

[hazy breach]

We didnt get many new bugs with this patch unlike some other specs (like DKs ) but theres plenty of bugs from before yes

However most of them do not impact the rotation much and is just "x does slightly less damage because its not boosted by Y"

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[timid rose]

Or blades now costs 30 energy because the game thinks you are distracting:(

[haughty drum]

@hazy breach thinking about it. Maybe ive been wrong for a while.

Outside of dance, do secret techniques have to be lined up with shadow dance at start of dance, or just need to be done in the dance window at some point

[hazy breach]

Well supercharger is only on the first 2 finishers

[wintry heart]

I got Pit legs last night from my extra roll. Marked safe from getting another belt for right now

[hazy breach]

So it should be in one of those 2 (ideally the first one) all the time. The second dance during blades is the exception to the rule

[outer rivet]

do we have any log divers that can help me out?

[lone spear]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[lone spear]

is it fine to say it's only true while blood lust ?

[hazy breach]

If it was only true during bloodlust it would say so

[lone spear]

so even without bloodlust with guidon u can fit a second sec tech in the blades ?

[hazy breach]

Because during bloodlust your sectech naturally lines up so you can supercharge it anyway

[hazy breach]

Yes

[haughty drum]

Well my new question now is talking about completely outside of blades. Does sectec have to be on the dot with dance cast or just sometime within it

Outside of blade

[hazy breach]

So it should be in one of those 2 (ideally the first one) all the time.

[haughty drum]

Ty

[short radish]

i've got a group now

good comp as well

but im probably going to have to do assi sooner or later

our prio sucks

[exotic steeple]

just let the dk prio

go for dmg meter

fuck prio

[lone spear]

well when i paire my second shadow dance in the blades + guidon section

my second sec tech is throwed when there only 1 sec of shadow dance and blades , that's correct ?

[vestal escarp]

Is going sub for keys purely by preference or is there a strategic choice ?

[fast dome]

ok thanks!

[left ledge]

its most likely preference as sub is not great in keys

[brisk onyx]

anyone knows how to decrease memory game frame size from nsrt ?

[fast dome]

I'm assuming this varies by key level

[vestal escarp]

Well done then

[brisk onyx]

its so big

[fast dome]

if stuff dies quickly, sub is better I suspect, higher burst than assa

[left ledge]

idk if it varies by key levels tbh

sub is just not great in keys

[crystal bone]

that's what she said!

[left ledge]

your aoe is mid and your cleave is ass

[brisk onyx]

[left ledge]

your ST is ok

[hazy breach]

Should be like 2s but yes

[left ledge]

assa def benefits at higher key levels though

though honestly if you dont like assa just play outlaw

[fast dome]

outlaw is super annoying to play. way more crap to keep track of.

[crystal bone]

luckily to swap from sub to sin u only need 1 item

and that is box

stats are basically the same

[left ledge]

i mean

its the same from sub to outlaw basically

or from sin to outlaw

they're all crit > haste

[meager coyote]

Several classes got bugfixed, but nothinf for us again? Lol

[fast dome]

I get some people really like complex rotations/lots of stuff to track, but I dont. Sub is nice cause I just zug zug

[fast dome]

I played shaman for years, I'm used to it.

[left ledge]

i find outlaw to be less aggravating in tracking than sin purely because of implacable

[hushed roost]

outlaw the sleeper that spec is actually nice to play rn

[hazy breach]

Sub is still giga mastery stacking in aoe

[left ledge]

oh yeah true i guess

[hazy breach]

Its only pure ST where crit is good

[fast dome]

I'm probably not micromanaging some stuff for sub. I just dislike that Outlaw has a lot more stuff I have to track when to use (prep, AR, RTB, Keep it rolling, etc) whereas I dont have to do that with sub or assa.

[left ledge]

well crit is still good in aoe at least according to my sims

though im running PE in the aoe sims

[hazy breach]

Well yeah its still good, i meant that mastery is just insano with PP

[left ledge]

yeah for sure i shouldve mentioned that

but eh since you're hitting 700 haste and we're in early expac

we really dont have much stats to play with ngl

[hazy breach]

Gotta make sure you get mastery from your pot though

[left ledge]

are you using reckless?

[hazy breach]

For aoe ye

[left ledge]

im still just using light's potential on everything

ye when i need to play sub aoe i just recraft my stuff to mastery lmao

ring/belt/wep call it gg

thats basically ~300 mastery

some gem swaps

flask

call it a day

sim doesnt even agree to more than that, picks a crit/haste ring over crit/mastery at that point

thats the one nice thing about rogue right now i guess though

can swap between all 3 specs quite easily

[lone spear]

well something's wrong cuz my second sech tech comeback on cd when there's less than 1s on the timer for blades

[left ledge]

unless you're in some demon full mastery haste build on sub

[left ledge]

are you using guidon

and do you have ~700 haste

[lone spear]

yes

750 haste

[hazy breach]

Then you either dont have ~700 haste or you are not pressing your buttons fast enough

[left ledge]

yeah idk then like eleem said

[lone spear]

lemme throw a vid of my openner

[left ledge]

if you guidon ~1 sec before cds then just go into your cds with sectec being pressed instantly it should work

ye vid will help

[graceful portal]

is a macro with blade/guidon problematic ?

[hazy breach]

Log would prob help more, but vid works

[left ledge]

yes

you want to guidon 1 sec before cds

[lone spear]

wait , i throw the guidon 1s before my cds ?

[left ledge]

because of how our dance duration updates

yes

[lone spear]

mh

[left ledge]

dance duration scales with your haste stat (the flat number) and it takes like a sec to update

[lone spear]

cuz in the sim raidbot he throw it a the same time than other cds

[left ledge]

so you guidon, then 1 sec later press your cd macro

[graceful portal]

Oh so even if guidon is with blades (and so before danceà it still sucks ?

[left ledge]

the sim is not realistic

[graceful portal]

Ohhhh

[lone spear]

mhhh

lemme try that way then

[final copper]

are they the same? I thought assa wanted more crit and haste? I was looking at items and I thought I'd have to recraft my items to crit/haste stats

[left ledge]

well... you barely have time to squeeze everything in blades

[graceful portal]

Felt like something was wrong with py burst setup that was it

[left ledge]

so using blades before dance is quite bad

[hazy breach]

The bug isnt implemented in simc because it does not have any impact on the sim besides making all the logic a lot more complicated and annoying

[left ledge]

is it a bug though

[hazy breach]

And numerically it does not matter

[lone spear]

Yeah

[hexed wave]

yea pika mentioned that in his latest videos he pops guid then waits a second then cooldowns

[lone spear]

throwing guidon 1s before CDS help me a lot for the second sech tec

Lmao

[graceful portal]

sorry i might have misunderstood something so the opener should be guidon and 1 sec later blande > dance > sectech ?

[lone spear]

now i got those 2s

[hexed wave]

I don’t even feel like swapping to the other specs, sub seems so good

[left ledge]

yes

if you guidon with cds, dance wont be updated in duration

[graceful portal]

so guidon open to get to the max cb for burst is the thing ?

[left ledge]

no

you strike and stab until full cp

then guidon, 1 sec later cds

[hazy breach]

!opener

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[graceful portal]

Okok i see now

[lone spear]

well my burst phase is fixed , ty boiz

[graceful portal]

thanks a lot man

[left ledge]

oh also WAIT UNTIL 60 ENERGY

that needs to be in the opener fr

[hexed wave]

also guys, after first SD, when you hit Shadow strike, and you don’t proc black bars, you SS again right, how often do we need to SS at full combos to get black bars, sometimes I catch myself doing it and black bars don’t activate

i’m sure i’m missing something small

LOVE sub btw im casual

[hazy breach]

Well you shouldnt strike again if you are not gonna proc the bars

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[left ledge]

never

ye this optimization mostly plays itself

if you pool sht

unless you're deathstalker in which case good luck

[hazy breach]

Not as much without premed, but yes

[left ledge]

o yea i guess maybe i overpool then

kinda nothing to do outside dance

[hexed wave]

oh I guess I gotta know if I won’t proc the bars

guess that’s my issue not knowing if ima proc, ok cool

[left ledge]

you proc them if you have 5 or more sht AFTER you use a builder

[hazy breach]

Only do it if ALL of the things in the bot message above is true

Otherwise dont

[hexed wave]

ty guys

i’ll need to have my stacks to show then

appreciate guys!

[ornate lake]

Don't just blindly ss twice to proc apex. Look at the shadow technique stacks. If it's more than 5, then strike twice, else finish

[hexed wave]

perfect!!

[graceful portal]

sorry english is not my first language but when it says "is dance up" it means like activated ? or just "not on cd"

[ornate lake]

Yes

[left ledge]

activated

[ashen granite]

When coming up to a dance+sectec (not in Blades) how long is a reasonable time before sectec is ready to stop casting and charge up Shadow Techniques? I've been stopping at around 5 seconds but find myself capping energy

[vale pine]

you usually stop using finishers for a few secounds before secret comes up

roughly 3, but 5 should be fine too

[ashen granite]

Ok cool thanks, was a bit unsure what a "few" meant 😄

[lilac stag]

Few means 3

[graceful portal]

For the 2nd sectec in dance quick question : when I use my second dance right after tthe first one, I manage to cast sectec in blades but i'm no longer in dance : should i delay a bit my 2nd dance ?

[vale pine]

yes

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[vale pine]

(assuming you use guidon)

[graceful portal]

Thanks mate

yeah I do

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[honest meteor]

You have Coup de Grace, and Sec Tec cd is 6 seconds, do you dance at that timing to consume Coup de Grace, or consume Coup as it is, and then Dance Sec Tec

[hazy breach]

Do nothing. Save shadow technique stacks and then dance when sectech is ready and get an apex proc on coup

[honest meteor]

so even if im full CP, i just spam backstab for 6 seconds?

[undone cliff]

Blizz needs to fix the bug of premed not giving full cp. opener feels terrible now

[hazy breach]

Just swap back to premed if it bothers you

[exotic steeple]

premed is bugged? lol

[hazy breach]

Not really

[undone cliff]

Isn’t it suppose to give full points out of stealth?

[hollow spear]

it does

[exotic steeple]

u imported new talents

[hazy breach]

Premed does do that

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[undone cliff]

It didn’t last night in raid for me. I’ll go back and look at my stuff to make sure I didn’t do something stupid and swap out believing I still had it.

[golden totem]

Idk if spamming bs is better than capping energy, cause you might lose coup stacks doing so. Probably doesn't matter either way but feels bad to cap energy

[exotic steeple]

just take a point of ephermal bond and skill premed, i did that too

[undone cliff]

I did

[exotic steeple]

yea the new opener is without premed

[undone cliff]

I thought I swapped but will look

[exotic steeple]

but u can take premed like many people did because it feels bad without it

very little % dmg loss but very comfy

[vagrant fossil]

Yo, Eleem, just wanted to say big up and thank you for the sub pins etc

[hollow spear]

Eleem is my favourite pin-up

[undone cliff]

Alright, I’m stupid. Disregard previous complaint lol

Guess I changed then imported over the change

[serene notch]

Stats are still Haste until breakpoint (700) > Fill the rest with Crit/Mastery. Crit is worth slightly more than before but that does not mean mastery is garbage, especially once theres more than 1 target. Can start using Crit Flask instead of Mastery.

is that break point wit/without guidon

[hazy breach]

With,

and as trickster

Nothing changed about breakpoints

[graceful rock]

Do I do the AA thing if I’m pooling 5 super chargers for egg?

I’d assume yes but I’m not sure if any of the rotten/premed stuff change that

[teal plaza]

Do you guys save shadowblades until first egg phase on beloren?

[summer mason]

If the breakpoint is 700–800 haste without Guidon, why do all the logs I see from +19 keys (april 23-24) in Mythic+ show Sub Rogues using mastery flasks and going full mastery/crit with only 400–500 haste? Why is that?

[lilac stag]

because they’re sacrificing a strength of the spec to go more aoe and people copy paste instead of thinking for themselves

[young path]

I probably should have read the previous post…

[alpine wraith]

yea you get more overall but at what cost(big st rip)

although maybe that is what their team needs

so dont try to copy blindly

[timid rose]

Yeah just like you could run rotten in m+ over finality if your group needs more prio dmg

[placid blade]

Why doesn't shadow blades say it has an energy cost on it?

[still gazelle]

I always forget to pre charge combo points before fights.

[vale pine]

!cc

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Blades / Cloud Cover bug:
Talenting into cloud cover gives Shadow Blades a 30 energy cost; this is not intentional and seems to come from the implementation of the talent. It seems to just cast Distract, which costs 30 energy. Make sure to have enough energy before using Shadow Blades.

[vale pine]

because its a bug

not intentional

[placid blade]

hah ty

was going crazy why my macro to autocast ST wasn't working anymore

[alpine wraith]

now with blades+sectech you need 60 energy

entering dance

[ionic flint]

Does it feel like you have to press SD more than once for it to take a effect from server lag? Especially in macros

[alpine wraith]

if you are on eu there is a little big of a clown situation rn

with routing

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/high-latency/611011/5

basically MS decided to introduce AI routing

making your packets do a worldwide tour

you can use a vpn or route yourself through something open like openvpn if you know some networking

[modern sentinel]

fuckin ai

[alpine wraith]

just make some traceroutes with a free one or a limited subscription

then use those and maybe get some backup for the telia ones as they go rabid sometimes

so that jump does not kill the connections

[loud wharf]

The other classes can get bug fixed though.

We got out stealth sound bug fixed 💪

[vale pine]

yes

[fossil forge]

swapping to the darkside

[loud wharf]

Outlaw has been much fun. Trickster has been wonky and awkward.

[ember hull]

Have they fixed our shadow blades energy to cast fart gas thing yet

[brisk onyx]

no

[jade urchin]

imagine rogue bugs getting fixes

lmao

[ember hull]

I swear im wiping my team in m+ cause my fart gas covers the ground

And no one can see shit

[verbal idol]

Why the heck does this not work on the M+ orbs that needs to be interrupted?

[jade urchin]

it works when u have a non orb in target

just not when u target orb

[vale osprey]

What's been wonky about trickster? Especially in terms of OL?

[finite hedge]

Don't target an orb. It kills the orb before it can spread

[loud wharf]

You land on 5cp alot.

But dont spend on 5

So hit another builder

It's also energy starved. But that's a problem for the outlaw channel.

[verbal idol]

That is so god damn dumb.

[desert dock]

i go the prem way i guess xD just chill

[lilac stag]

Ask how those bug fixes are going for DKs

[meager canopy]

How high should I increase my crit rating to avoid over-capping?

[fading whale]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Get your haste to the appropriate level specific to the on use trinket you have then just start adding crit/mastery gear. More mastery for keys / fights you use potent powder on. More crit for most raid fights.

[brisk onyx]

they fixed a goooood bug(almost 10% increase) and hold 6 bad bugs

[young path]

Maybe it’s out there somewhere… But could Blizzard just formally acknowledge the bugs they are tracking for each class? It would be a little less frustrating as a player to atleast have them confirm they are aware…

[left ledge]

they're fixing them

and have tweeted about it

so pretty well id say

https://x.com/BlizzardCSEU_EN/status/2047688305399971941

Blizzard CS EU (@BlizzardCSEU_EN)

@Litendave Hello Litendave,

I can confirm we have several fixes for Unholy DK issues currently in the works.

Please keep an eye on the hotfix blog over here for more details in the near future:
https://t.co/A2fc7bakEC

Thanks!

X · Apr 24, 2026, 2:45 PM

[lilac stag]

yeah class not playable for 2 days

Amazing

Not giving them a pat on the back recognizing shit is wrong.

[left ledge]

ye i was just saying

they're gonna get their bug fixes

[lilac stag]

They’ll just call cloud cover intended and move on

[left ledge]

what about cdm

can they fix our cdm

[lilac stag]

nope

[left ledge]

i guess sub doesnt have problems with it but

assa and outlaw

holy shit

literal aids

[lilac stag]

They were ahead of schedule an expansion

[thorn stream]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[verbal idol]

I feel it on sub

[lilac stag]

Now they let it rot

[left ledge]

W schedule

peak expansion

[lilac stag]

can I get my gdamn tts back to main channel so I can actually hear it? Being blind was bad enough. Now 1/2 deaf.

[flat beacon]

Hey guys, I need some advise on gearing. This week I got mythic Edge of the Bruning Sun and I am not sure if I should take it, since most high level rogues I looked up on raider.io are using different daggers. But then again, I guess the only diffrence are secondary stats and I could chose other items accordingly. Or am I missing something?

[lilac stag]

You want a max level dagger main hand. Stats are not as important as the extra ilvl

stop copying others gear choices

They’re using what they got

which is what you should be doing as well

[brisk onyx]

They're now very tight-lipped about somethings, afraid to admit certain those, like the recraft bug

[timid rose]

Yup. Does it sim higher than what you have?

[fossil forge]

guys can you will to survive in pit

when the guy takes u into the sky

[frail bone]

doesnt vanish work to drop?

[fossil forge]

vanish works

wondering if the racial works though

[fathom adder]

is that skyreach "tech" with running between two beams at second boss a real thing or a meme?

vanish and meld works both (for the circles in triumvirate too)

[rain swift]

most necessery bug they fixed on rogue kekw (from the recent patch notes for 22th april)

[keen dome]

I should know this since human but I don't because I forget to push it

[keen dome]

Probably a very easy and quick fix

[brisk onyx]

really work

[vale pine]

audio related bugs are very noticable, so nice to have that fixed

many players rely on audio queues

[keen dome]

I imagine it was a very very quick fix too

[sharp sapphire]

tbh I felt weird without the stealth sound... like something was not working properly

[vale pine]

i play without sound

soo for me, it was not noticable

[keen dome]

I play with sound and it made me question my sanity

[sharp shell]

it was the first thing I noticed

[final agate]

Agree it needed to be fixed (the audio cue) but when compared to other bugs, low prio.

[summer mason]

warning sign or planned execution?

[swift tinsel]

I have music or dnd on and game sound usually interferes with the mood lol

[prisma ibex]

sub is viable on 19+ keys?

[hollow quest]

I mean at least nothing

[final agate]

Execution

[prisma ibex]

did a 18 yesterday, but didn't see any sub going +19 higher

[glacial stag]

saw some early 19s as sub

but yeah that was like 2 weeks ago

with the changes i would assume its 100% viable

it already was and it should be even more now

[shadow snow]

I think we can def do a 19 with the right comp

[frail path]

Issue would probably be finding a group unless you run with people

[spice island]

I need them to fix premed this shit feels so awful to play rn

[glacial stag]

oh regarding that for sure lmao

you wont find pug groups

But at least its the same for sin and outlaw lmao

[glacial stag]

yeah its garbage without it

but what can we do

been trying outlaw since wednesday

they have huge energy issues

i'm happy at least this isnt the case with sub

[prisma ibex]

tryed sin and outlaw, but SUB feels better tbh

[glacial stag]

to play yeah definitively

although sin is rlly funny too imo

[swift tinsel]

I found not vanishing instantly after opening strike and getting a few autos off granted a sht stack often enough to make no-premed opener feel pretty fine

[glacial stag]

when ur not on a boss lol

[edgy imp]

which is the true bis gear list ?

[glacial stag]

yeah at least we can get unseen blades more quickly

[swift tinsel]

tried strike->bs->vanish+strike-> bs (if needed) into guidon was decent

[glacial stag]

raid opening without coup de grace was so lame

[spice island]

I've been trying to avoid switching spec but tbh after seeing that the stat prio went from mastery to crit with that patch, I'm just like... Man I don't even know I was really loving sub before the patch

[swift tinsel]

pre-disorient helps

find 2 critters if you can't sectech before death

[dusky yacht]

I think it depends on what you've gotten so far, better to optimise for your personal stats

[north garnet]

Its reccomended not to look at the BiS lists

[glacial stag]

both are within 0.1% difference i believe

just need to sim urself to see which item feats more with the rest of ur gear

[edgy imp]

so treat it as alternative bis options but always sim

[north garnet]

Sim your self and go with what makes sense

Obviously there are certain trinkets you will want regardless

[keen dome]

neither because BiS isn't real and it requires every single piece at that iLevel.

[edgy imp]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vhzKZYjdTRWWAmutjUV1Tf https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3wESgeBet3qqMN6ujP8TC1

[tame stratus]

just sim even with bonus rolls now getting the perfect setup is just pure luck

[edgy imp]

slice and patch

[glacial stag]

yeah seems legit

[vale pine]

should be fairly identical

[dusky yacht]

Where'd you get this second list btw? The blue one

It's almost exactly my gear I'm flattered

[glacial stag]

its from icy veins

i believe

[lilac stag]

You realized nothing really changed right? Crit was better before in low target. Mastery better as soon as you take pp

[dusky yacht]

ty

[twilit gorge]

Is there a line I can add to my Sims that keeps a min haste? Trying to figure out what gear to go for but it keeps wanting me to go below 700

[lilac stag]

nope. You can take off weapon oils and that should help. Big swing items like the neck from crown you have to do some maths

[fossil forge]

i didnt even notice

no stealth sound

:D

perma blasting techno

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-jam-jam12323-gif-19133853

[dusky yacht]

I was losing my mind when I first got Gaze

The procs made me think an addon was tripping

[spice island]

No, been playing for like 6 weeks, following the wowhead guide and now all my gear is "wrong" and my skills got fucked up

[lilac stag]

Lawls did I get in a filtered message?

[edgy imp]

i looked at beloren loot drops and everything is bis so i might roll that instead of light co. guidon or nah

[keen dome]

You don't really need to swap the stat priority. Crit is better ST, mastery is better AoE. More crit more damage, etc. Just naturally gear to 700 haste then get mast/crit gear.

[keen dome]

It's not really worth rolling on a heroic raid boss, if you are also able to do mythic raid bosses. And if you aren't, M+ is going to be vastly better value.

[lilac stag]

I wish the “there is no wrong gear” was in big caution tape.

This spec is quite easy to gear. Get Mythic MH dagger. get guidon, get 700 haste. Everything else is near frivolous.

[keen dome]

[final agate]

Pretty much.

[keen dome]

Don't just follow a BiS list. That's not what they are for. You can eyeball most gearing choices outside of trinkets.

[final agate]

Either way you'll be fine. Raid or M+

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

I'm pretty frivolous myself

[vale pine]

^ these sims should have the highest simming combinations

[lilac stag]

imagine all the outlaw players Seli trolled with his outlaw guide that had ranger general trinket as BiS.

[vale pine]

so if you want a "bis" to aim for, thats probably the closest you get

[keen dome]

yeah

[vale pine]

(wowhead should have the same items as the single target sim)

[keen dome]

I assume the caveat is it requires ever piece so it's still just, like. Kinda whatever? (I value the sim work though, it's great)

[vale pine]

yes

its also

stats are not all or nothing

[lilac stag]

How can it be BiS when Eleem has a different BiS on IV?

[keen dome]

yeah

[vale pine]

so you can shift pieces around and it will be still within margins or low %

[keen dome]

Absolutely

[lilac stag]

[keen dome]

I think the real question is what's the BiS speed build

what's the mathmatically optimal and maximum amount of speed I can gain

[warm marlin]

ranger general is really good tho

[dusky yacht]

812 crit, 687 haste, 831 mastery

https://giphy.com/gifs/yHKOzZnHZyjkY

(no flask)

[lilac stag]

Did you know it dropped from Chim?

[warm marlin]

hmm

well that may be an issue

[lilac stag]

Gaze better as well

I let him know. Haha

[prime mortar]

Can somebody explain to me like i'm 5 and possibly with an IQ below average how upgrading weapon work...

I have a dagger crafted 285, got a Myth track dagger from vault, why do i have to pay again to upgrade?
Will i have to pay AGAIN for outlaw MH?

[lilac stag]

@warm marlin outlaw and prog on paladins was an emotional rollercoaster. Roll 3/4 buffs. We call wipe 30 seconds in. Roll 1/2 buffs. We make it 3+ minutes.

[hazy breach]

You need 2 weapons upgraded before you get free upgrades

[warm marlin]

ye

[hazy breach]

Just like rings and trinkets

[warm marlin]

my rng on lura adds is insane

sometimes im full jackpot ar just coming up

bte reset

and i do half a devourer dh's damage

sometimes i dont proc have no ar

and i do 5% of a dev dh damage

[lilac stag]

I couldn’t find AR timings to go when all three stacked. Holding felt awful

[warm marlin]

idk you cant really hold on that spec

it lines up or it doesnt

[lilac stag]

I went and farmed a puzzle box for assa. Maybe give that a go. Even with my dmg, we still were ahead of check so it doesn’t matter until healers sort it out.

[warm marlin]

dropping smoke bomb on paladins can also suck

[lilac stag]

Yeah I was just firing shit off

[warm marlin]

if its timed poorly

[lilac stag]

we have 3 melee total.

no skyfury didn’t add to my outlaw fun

something something no resto shaman

[gilded fog]

is crit flask the play now with the new build?

[hollow spear]

if you get to 700 haste without haste flask, it should be

in m+ maybe still mastery flask

[lilac stag]

Do you have potent powder? Yes = mastery. No = crit.

[last horizon]

what is the options without guidon ? 800 haste ?

[obsidian crag]

idk what is happening, but mplus is harder now, im glad i got 15 resi before patch 12.0.5

[vale pine]

neither of the lists is bis, somehow none of the pieces have avoidence on it

true bis = every piece with avoidence

[keen dome]

what is this speed slander

[lusty relic]

ur new hero talent is killing everyone

😛

[vale pine]

haha true

we need a fight club to decide which is better, speed, leech or avoidence

[fossil forge]

Since i started using ephe

I leech like crazy

Like 2 extra healthbars on a big pull type crazy

[keen dome]

Agreed

this would go hard

[ripe flame]

zoomies is bis

[kind edge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[livid cape]

And got nerfed

[final agate]

Indeed

[lost rampart]

Hey, quick question.

I was reviewing a log from an EU player named Shadowdager and it appears they used SecTec at 5.5s and 18.7s; only a 13.2s gap. I thought it had a 19s CD so how does that happen, or am I reading it wrong?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RJAdnVajD9b6fqgH?fight=5&type=damage-done&source=55&view=events

[dusky yacht]

Deepening Shadows

Wait nvm I'm stupid

[obsidian crag]

what do u mean?

[warm marlin]

bloodlust and lots of haste

from guidon presumably

its around 13s

[dusky yacht]

Yeah guidon reduces mine to 17s

So with bloodlust etc sure why not

[lost rampart]

Ahhh okay

Thank you guys!

[lilac stag]

Indestructible Dagger and Blacksmith as a profession.

True BiS

[vale pine]

true

i need indestructible daggers

[keen dome]

I had one for a while

it was great

[edgy imp]

leech is my fave makes me want to pump harder when im dying

[lucid jackal]

Leech is best for rogue and its not close

[deft dock]

During Shadow Dance, is it worth spamming Shadowstrike to proc Black Bars before casting Secret Technique with Supercharger, or is it a DPS loss compared to just Eviscerating and using Secret Technique without the proc?

[dusky yacht]

Indestructible is bis for rogue and it's not close

[edgy imp]

i feel like feint is avoidance enough and we can use evasion if we really need

[dusky yacht]

I'm jking obviously

[young path]

Leech all the way… midnight s1 is the season of bleeds and dots… help your healer out 🙂

[edgy imp]

pumpthrough damage , use cds as defensives and pumpppp

imagine if cloud cover healed teammates lol

[warm marlin]

ive gone a bit back on leech this tier

at least for sub

u already have EE and fade

u need more healing in cds?

what if it was speed all along..

[karmic harbor]

guys is there a fix for the apex not showing in cd manager bug?

[swift tinsel]

speed on top of dance/stealth speedyboots

[warm marlin]

i am the fast

[halcyon roost]

Isnt avoidance way better than leech

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

not for rogue

what do u need avoidance for

feint that aoe cuh

ive been playing leech since start of lou

[dusky yacht]

I mean does it even matter not like you'll have much of a choice

[warm marlin]

i have speed for lura now though since my goat exile did it

i am fast

[tidal solstice]

it makes it easier for my healers during raidwide dmg phases so i use avoidance

[warm marlin]

leech also gives like twice as much % as avoidance does after the nerfs in tww1

you just get more value

[shy ferry]

is cloud cover costing 30 energy also making it use a GCD? I've had a few times where my macro doesnt cast ST but a global is still triggered

[fleet acorn]

guys no premed is bait - all top logs are with premed

[lucid jackal]

Rogue has so much speed baseline it's pointless

[lusty relic]

it was a joke, everyone on the wow forums is complaining that cloud cover obscures swirlies and everyone who brings a rogue is trolling/killing their group

[subtle aspen]

yo, someone tried these build on dungeons? simulated better for me

[dusky yacht]

"all"

I'm not seeing it

[halcyon roost]

We already have leech

[warm marlin]

?? i am slow

get mechanic no step target

gg

[swift tinsel]

shadowrunner my beloved

between that fleet footed and fade I'm a blur

[fossil forge]

No step + sprint on cd ? Gg

My autocorrect is buggin

[gilded thistle]

THEY FIXED CROWN PARSES

YAY

[subtle aspen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gilded thistle]

NO MORE GREEN, I'M SAVED

[sullen spruce]

!TALENTS

[real panther]

guys, show me your tmog please, i need inspiration

dont be shy

[real panther]

a little pinch of old schoolness i like it

[sage pond]

When is blizz fixing premed and cloud cover energy… it’s been a few days already for what should be a 1 minute code review…

[tidal solstice]

old school you say

[lilac stag]

Take a peek at wangs video in #outlaw

[warm marlin]

not surprising

probably also true for us

[west bluff]

lmao first guy cooking with other trinket

[dusky yacht]

Yeah the logs can be really funny sometimes

Especially the chinese guys

[west bluff]

which fight is that?

found it vorasius. Zero PIs as well what a beast

[void ocean]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/unholy-death-knight-dealing-less-damage-than-intended-due-to-bugs-in-patch-12-0-381380?utm_source=discord-webhook

woah they rly not lettin this go

[west bluff]

Whenever i think i parsed huge i get baited by blizzard's damage meter

[frank canopy]

Uhm so im completely new to rogue and am confused on on thing. Leveling sub rn and as far as i could see there are a few talents interacting with slice and dice. If im not completely mistaken you actually dont press it though. So do we have a few talentpoints we just dumb in there but actually dont use it or am i missing something entirely

[west bluff]

any way to check in logs total/avg CP per finisher?

[west bluff]

yup you don't even bind slice and dice later on

[icy helm]

!cc

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Blades / Cloud Cover bug:
Talenting into cloud cover gives Shadow Blades a 30 energy cost; this is not intentional and seems to come from the implementation of the talent. It seems to just cast Distract, which costs 30 energy. Make sure to have enough energy before using Shadow Blades.

[frank canopy]

so i have the swift slasher talent and the one from trickster but its not worth pressing still

[somber sun]

dude they need to rework the daggers sheath on sides

it feels so off

[vale pine]

i like it, outside of the daggers

[gilded thistle]

are those not in your hands?

oh daggers

[somber sun]

mb mb had a stroke

[gilded thistle]

the SNEAKY EDIT

[somber sun]

dude I was reading what I wrote and was like wtf is this sht

[gilded thistle]

i was also reading what you worte

[sand torrent]

Yo why’d you ask for xmog while I’m at work, I’m so fuckin proud of my rogue xmog

[somber sun]

[gilded thistle]

[grave girder]

I'm a highmountain tauren.. I'll spare you the screenshot

[gilded thistle]

tauren rogue is still insane to me

[vale osprey]

Link your armoury then

[gilded thistle]

whyd they do that lmao

[gilded thistle]

armory doesn't show xmog rn

shit's still broken

[somber sun]

you go on talents ui and see you can only play outlaw

[somber sun]

in woltk there was a tauren pirate in the woltk leveling content

pretty valid

[gilded thistle]

[somber sun]

but yeah, tauren sub or assa is weird

[sand torrent]

I’ll post it a couple hrs from now when I’m home and everyone has forgotten about this conversation.

[grave parcel]

Any known sub rogues who are streaming 18's+ for mythics?

[misty compass]

Did 12.0.5 changes make DS playable?

[lilac stag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1496539571876528211/image.png?ex=69ece396&is=69eb9216&hm=0ae590db9ca2d988a9202d5c664c8b88dfa36917217d73f6bccc70a90c5ababa&

nothing fancy. Just a vibe.

[lucid jackal]

Trickster got mongo buffed so probably not

[quaint lodge]

Casual will play it sometimes, and then theres the russian sub rogue player, but I forget his twitch

[quaint lodge]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/504020355661299722

Can check thru this channel though

[grave parcel]

preesh bro

[wintry heart]

The 285->289 dps increase is very minimal right?

[lilac stag]

define minimal

On MH it’s big

[wintry heart]

I’m manifesting a pit dagger from my next extra roll drop and I only have enough myth crests for one more full upgrade this week

[lilac stag]

Well how much are you playing now til reset?

[wintry heart]

My OH is also only 263 so I’m wondering if it’s ideal to full send a myth dagger or save

[lilac stag]

Myth Dagger is 99% of the time your main focus, especially if you have haste / guidon

[wintry heart]

I have hero track guidon and gaze and my path to a mythic one is non existent

[lilac stag]

then yes my mythic is your priority

[sonic depot]

has anyone been refunded a bonus roll yet

[tawny peak]

Not me, though a photoshoped patch not was circulated as ragebait.

That was fun, it implied Blizzard was going to take your rolled items and only then refund bonus rolls.

[sonic depot]

that would be nice (for me)

[tawny peak]

they will just refund the bonus rolls and let players keep whatever they rolled.

I got boots from skyreach--or whatever it's called--and now I may get them again. Or not. I probably will since everything but shoulders (which I rolled after patch) is good for me except the boots (which are not scratched off).

[wanton mantle]

which is stupid cuz if you didnt roll you get nothing. I can tell u alot more people got items they wanted then didnt, If id known we were getting refudned id a burned all 3 rolls

[tawny peak]

sure.

Hard to make the whole thing fair, but again--I might get 3 rolls but I will probably end up getting 2 pairs of boots before I clean out skyreach.

[sonic depot]

i rolled waist (embellishment) and a cloak (meh). worst part is that they were from pit and i would like to roll there again next week so i may get those items again

[wanton mantle]

Theres no way to be PERFECTLY fair, but allowing some people 6 rolls in a single week is obnoxious to people that actually read the post in the first few hours n sat on their rolls like good little boys n girls

[half loom]

Complaining about free myth gear is wild ngl you'll get refunded

I wish I abused it, I rolled 4 times this week on my main. Could've gotten 8 myth pieces 😂

[lucid jackal]

we do have a #transmog channel as well where the mega roleplayers hangout

[half loom]

And ofc my 4 rolls were garbage no puzzlebox in sight

[wanton mantle]

thats what im saying! just give everyone 2-3 rolls n call it a day dont make it just a refund

[sonic depot]

how you roll times

[bleak night]

then the people who got bugged duplicates are just as behind as they were before

[half loom]

But they're atleast removed from the pool so it's 100% next week

[wanton mantle]

are they behind? cuz if you got the items u wanted your actually ahead

[half loom]

I took tokens the week before and didn't spend them

Then tokens this week

[bleak night]

most will still be behind

[half loom]

So 2x extra plus the 2 you get

[bleak night]

only people who got the item they wanted and dont need to roll in that smae place again will be ahead

[keen dome]

https://bsky.app/profile/support.blizzard.com/post/3mkb77h2lbc2x About the 30 energy Shadowblade cost.

BlizzardCS (@support.blizzard.com)

-# ↩ iGestalt (@igestalt.bsky.social)
Greetings! We are aware of this bug and it is being worked on. Thanks for the report. ^JH

Bluesky · Apr 24, 2026, 6:54 PM

[wanton mantle]

u think the 8 people in my raid group that got gaze are going to REROLL chimarus again for what? shits and giggles?

[bleak night]

a very small amount of people actually get ahead from this

[bleak night]

and for every one of those people, 3-4 didnt get that and have to roll again

and can just roll the same shit item

[tawny peak]

no doubt by "top men."

[strong ore]

Have they said how we are getting the cores back?

[wanton mantle]

your right but thats a risk you take when you dont wait for an OBVIOUSLY buggy patch to be fleshed out and all the people that spent AFTER tuesday when it was fairly known there was an issue they did it anyway.

[bleak night]

terrible argument

[wanton mantle]

Like if they said hey anyone that spent on tuesday will be refunded ok fairly fair, but its just if you spent in general

most people didnt spend cuz blizzards typical fashion is sucks to suck we wont intervene but of course they decide to now.

[lilac stag]

@left ledge we’re DKs now

[vale pine]

nicuu

you also need to use fixvx.com

oh its bluesky

[lucid jackal]

They likely cant differenciate that fact

[vale pine]

not twitter

[lucid jackal]

I think everybody should just be given another 2

[keen dome]

It was pretty obvious they did know about it and were working on it, but on the off chance, I wanted to ask anyway so I can link it to people being annoying about it.

[lucid jackal]

The fact that people who "got fucked" are now ahead is kinda..... not right

[keen dome]

Yeah, I agree. Just give everyone 2 extra.

[vale pine]

+1 this

[bleak night]

the people who actually got fucked are not ahead

[wanton mantle]

EXACLTY this is no different than sparks last expansion instead of pulling them away they just gave everyone an extra done done

[bleak night]

its only the people who didnt actually get fucked and got what they wanted

[warm marlin]

some of them are ahead, some are not!

[bleak night]

that will be ahead from this

[lucid jackal]

Getting any item would be an advantage

[keen dome]

I got fucked and am now behind. I still think everyone should get 2 regardless.

[lucid jackal]

But yeah

[lilac stag]

And those people ahead will smile and say crest capped.

[lucid jackal]

Like the issue is

[bleak night]

and the people who actually got fucked dont get an item

[lucid jackal]

If you spent you are either

Neutral, or ahead

People who didn't spend are now
behind

[bleak night]

no

because if you spent you can be just as "behind" as people who didnt spend

[lucid jackal]

How so?

[vale pine]

well there is one exception

if you spend in mythic

and only need 1 specific mythic piece

then you are behind

[bleak night]

literally every single person who spent in a spot, got the same dupe, then has to go back to that spot

can still get that same dupe

[warm marlin]

guys who spent in mythic raid and missed are behind

[bleak night]

and be the exact same as you

[wanton mantle]

the ONLY way the people that spent end up behind is if they end up pulling ANOTHER duplicate if they dont and move on, there not bheind.

[lilac stag]

Our DK had 2 items as upgrades from Chim. Got the one item he couldn’t use. Now he’s back to 0/3 off the drop table.

[keen dome]

Meeee

[mortal arch]

in guy's framing the people who didn't spend should also be "neutral"

[warm marlin]

guys who spent in mythic raid and hit are giga ahead

[lucid jackal]

hmmmmm

[vale pine]

but ye

the solution is in general bad for everyone who waited for it to be fixed

[keen dome]

I rolled Myth belt on Chimmy M. It did not get logged onto the thing, so I can roll it again. I am still 1/4 after a week of it, instead of 1/3.

[bleak night]

the way they are doing it ends up with the most parity between the playerbase overall

it does suck

but the entire situation sucks

[warm marlin]

also most people who spent in mythic raid will have missed

[keen dome]

I also cannot roll again on the boss this week, so I am now forever a week behind on getting gaze at a maximum potential rolls

[warm marlin]

so most are behind

[wanton mantle]

neutral at best or behind, cuz if you managed even 1 item from your rolls, and then u get refunded your ahead, if you didnt spend ur misisng out on pontentially 3 rolls

[keen dome]

Instead of it being 4 weeks max, it's now 5 weeks max

[lilac stag]

clearly Blizzard needs to cross reference all of the BIS lists on wowhead and adjust according. Let the rest of the game burn instead of just giving everyone another 2.

[mortal arch]

if you spent, got a refund, and get a new item with the refund: ahead
if you spent, got a refund, get the same item: neutral
if you spent on a mythic boss, didn't get what you wanted, and can't roll again this week: behind
if you didn't spend: neutral

[warm marlin]

and again like idk what other people's situations look like

[bleak night]

also yes, every person who rolled and got a refund are now just a week behind rolling in raids

[warm marlin]

i spent on mythic raid and got ahead

but i dont have crests to spend on items these new tokens will give me

wayyy too many crests

[bleak night]

literally only people who got the one thing they wanted from a boss and dont have to go back there are ahead

[warm marlin]

i dont even have crests to spend on the items i already have

[keen dome]

I plan to spend in Nexus with my refund but I won't have crests for anything I get for potentially 2 weeks.

[warm marlin]

let alone new items

[vale pine]

you forgot, spend and got something you want for mythic

[ashen warren]

the rolled item(s) during the bug are not in blizz database, so they can still be rolled with new rolls, but only once

[keen dome]

I still think they should just give it to everyone because fuck it.

[lucid jackal]

Oh I see

[wanton mantle]

+1

[lilac stag]

Clearly the solution is to just roll gaze in vault.

[keen dome]

The best way to solve this system is to have a time machine and fix it before it happens. No other option will make everybody happy so just make the most people happy.

[warm marlin]

not around these parts pal

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/delorean-time-travel-back-to-the-future-marty-mc-fly-gif-11295533

[warm marlin]

wouldnt have happened

[vale pine]

the best fix is to give everyone a roll, so everyone gets a benefit

[keen dome]

Yeah

[bleak night]

we already pointed out how that doesnt benefit everyone

[warm marlin]

then the people who didnt roll are giga ahead though

[vale pine]

the 2nd best is to give only those who got duplicates the roll back

[warm marlin]

like every single one will be ahead

[bleak night]

that just puts the people who actually got bugged behind even more

[wanton mantle]

Thats the thing it actually is simple! Just give out 3 extra rolls n GG it. People who spent get their rolls back, people who didnt spend dont feel absolutely cheated by blizz.

[tawny peak]

Yes, if you gave everybody 2 extra rolls, the ones most punished would be the original people who didn't get something since they would have only 2 tiems scratched off while everyone else got 4.

[ashen warren]

there are no "real" fair solution to this situation

[keen dome]

why would it be 3?

[vale pine]

the 3rd best is to give everyone who did roll before the fix a refund

[bleak night]

that doesnt work though

say i rolled once on a boss and got an item

[wanton mantle]

cuz i think at the highest % other than 2 people could of spent 3 unless uw ere saving extra coins

[ashen warren]

well it depends where you rolled and if you get lucky

[timid rose]

Should give out one to everyone. The worst case is you got a single dupe

[bleak night]

but its not the item i needed so i go to that boss next week

and now i roll that same item again bc it wasnt properly removed during the bug

[keen dome]

this is going to be me on reset

[warm marlin]

anyone who rolled in raid can roll that same item next week

[bleak night]

i didnt get a dupe, so i wasnt refunded under your solution

but i still get fucked

[bitter cliff]

Hey all are the rogue bugs fixed already or is cloud cover still better?

[keen dome]

cloud cover is still better it is very strong

Blizz now about the energy bug and are working on a fix

[wanton mantle]

if you rolled raid your fucked regardless so its a sum 0

[warm marlin]

fancy a second undreaming god's oozing vestige by chance 🍷

[keen dome]

nah, it's going to give me another belt

I'm going to become an FF character

[bleak night]

well except you're less fucked the way they did it than any other way thats being suggested

its just people the bug didnt effect mad that a very small number of people will benefit

while for most people its just helping them not be fucked

[lilac stag]

I didn’t roll raid since we’re gonna start extending. I rolled on pit and got 2 useless items.

Give me more rolls blizz

[keen dome]

I'm gonna use both my refund runs in Nexus and get both rings and be winning

[lilac stag]

kthx

[wanton mantle]

if you got your rolls back or everyone got 2 rolls back IT DOESNT matter you still got your rolls, but half the people get extra rolls while the other half dont get any extra

[warm marlin]

imagine you rolled raid and missed, then they gave everyone 2 tokens, you watched other people who rolled after the fix go into dungeons and get new items since their dupe pool is filled, then you go into raid next week and get the same shit item again with your 2 refunded tokens

[bleak night]

you understand

that if you get everyone 2

the people who are currently -2

are still -2

[keen dome]

2 + 2 = 4, -2 + 2 = 0

[wanton mantle]

thats only in the Specific scenari if they manage a DUPLICATE item again

[lilac stag]

2 + 2 = potato

[vale pine]

ye, they would need to add everyone to the list retroactively

its just not feasable

thats why they used the 3rd

[wanton mantle]

how does that even make sense if you spent 2 rolls and got 2 rolls back and spend 4 your still up 2 on the week and had 4 chances at loot.

[keen dome]

Well, I'm currently -2 so if I roll another belt do I become -4. Because I would've lost a 25% chance twice.

[lilac stag]

Which is highly likely based on duplicate loot issues already plaguing this season

[wanton mantle]

the only way this doesnt play out is if you SPECIFICALLY spent in raid which in that case you are screwed anyway gg

[keen dome]

Chim has 4 items. I have a 25% chance to get an identical item on my roll on reset.

[bleak night]

you understand this will be most people correct

like

and this is just raid

not even including people who rolled keys

[wanton mantle]

in keys you have an even LESS chance to get a dupe since most keys have several items

[bleak night]

you're also using more rolls in that key

i already got a dupe from my key

i rolled twice while it was bugged, got shoulders both times

rolled again after it was fixed, got shoulders again

[lilac stag]

Did you actually get the refund or use vault currency?

[bleak night]

vault

[lilac stag]

[bleak night]

i had tokens i hadnt spent on a socket yet

[warm marlin]

triple shoulders roll is devious

[keen dome]

That's awful

[swift tinsel]

I love hearing fatality before clearing the login screen

[wanton mantle]

so you had 3 attempts at loot, now you'll get another loot and if you hit on all 3 or even 2 you basicly ahead. i could use all 3 of mine and get nohting but i dont get the added benefit of 3 more rolls

[tawny peak]

A few lucky people will be up; most will end up gtting an item they rolled earlier because it wasn't crossed off.

[bleak night]

i literally cant be ahead

[keen dome]

Did you see my reply from CS.

[bleak night]

if i get two unique items on both of my next rolls

[swift tinsel]

no, what happened?

[bleak night]

im 3/3

[lilac stag]

That’s like shadow priest azerite shoulders bfa diabolical

[bleak night]

without the bug

i would be 3/3

[wanton mantle]

your specific situation isnt everyone im talking about an entire population of people you arent even a sample

[bleak night]

you quite literally said "you"

[lilac stag]

The other you

[keen dome]

the royal you

[lilac stag]

Keep up

[keen dome]

But that legit sucks, Bel. Absolutely bullshit rng

[bleak night]

you just want the solution that benefits you

which is fair

[vale pine]

its like this:

• If you spend your bonus roll on a mythic boss, and won't be able to spend another roll ❌ You are behind
  ✅ Everyone else is getting extra loot from the bonus roll resets!
  ofc if you only need 1 item in mythic, you are behind 1 week because of the missing database entry.

[bleak night]

but its just not the one that helps the most people

[wanton mantle]

no i want a solution that benefits the MOST people

[bleak night]

its the one that helps you

[wanton mantle]

giving everyone MORE rolls benefits EVERYONE. Refunding rolls only benefits the people that spent!

[bleak night]

giving everyone rolls doesnt benefit the people who actually need to benefit

its just you wanting to profit off the situation lmao

[keen dome]

Arguably the solution that benefits the most people is impossible, so the next best solution is the one that remedies the impacted parties the best. Which would be what Blizz are doing.

[wanton mantle]

what do you think is actually higher? people who spent in the first 3 hours or people who heard there was a problem and havent spent their tokens?

[warm marlin]

it was a bug for like a full 24hrs

[bleak night]

it was bugged an entire day

not 3 hours

[warm marlin]

also not all of us had a choice

my guild reclears on reset day

if i dont roll in mythic raid then i dont get the chance

[keen dome]

I spent mine the morning on Wednesday btw, in the EU. It was fixed, uh.. 8PM UK time or something I think?

[swift tinsel]

ye it wasn't fixed until almost 30 hours later

[vale pine]

the solution benefits everyone that spend it early

[keen dome]

it was around for ages

[vale pine]

kinda

[wanton mantle]

but the info on the bugged rolls was out well before 24s we knew about it DURING raid and we raid 30m after servers come up

[lilac stag]

We forced 16 people to roll on Chim. 1 g o t gaze

[tawny peak]

I spent one right away and didn't find another m+ group so I saved the other then found out about the bug.

[warm marlin]

ok but like are you just going to skip a week on rolls because it's bugged?

[swift tinsel]

servers came up 5pm tuesday my time, bug was fixed by 10pm wednesday my time

[warm marlin]

you still delay yourself a week on getting gaze

[keen dome]

I only had time to do ChimM on Wednesday so I guess I should just not raid at all

[warm marlin]

we aren't going to hold our chimaerus reclear until after the bug is fixed

[wanton mantle]

so you spend it elsewhere?

[keen dome]

But I want Gaze?

So I'm going to spend it on Gaze

[lilac stag]

When did Blizzard acknowledge the bug?

[warm marlin]

gaze is by far the biggest upgrade i could have gotten

like miles ahead

[swift tinsel]

thursday lol

[wanton mantle]

cool you spent it knowing there was a bug sounds like its on you

[lilac stag]

Thank you.

[keen dome]

Actually it's on Blizzard, not me.

[warm marlin]

ah I see

you are intentionally arguing in bad faith

ok

[wanton mantle]

There was literally reddit most within the first 2 hours of server launch saying there was problems we heard about it during raid and advised nayone not rolling in raid to not spend