subtlety

[vale pine]

the easiest solution to premed would be to rework it

to just give sht stacks

[grizzled hornet]

Premed: first buid you do max points + full sht stacks and we win

[fiery fog]

Or just dont give us a better apex talent

Thats not reliant on something like that

[vale pine]

the problem is the bug

the buff prevents apex from working correctly

so the easiest solution would be to remove the buff

and replace the function with something else

[grizzled hornet]

yeah i know i am just day dreaming of changes that would give us dmg

[vale pine]

we just got a 6% buff

its just too bad that most other classes did get buffs too

[fiery fog]

Wait

What if we use a cancelaura

Would that work

[grizzled hornet]

did you check devourer ?

[vale pine]

and our cleave isn't solved

[vale pine]

haha ye

they have a bug which makes them do more

its a new class

hero class problematic

*spec

[grizzled hornet]

yeah i get it, but it was already dominating

[vale pine]

for what its worth, dev is such a big outliner now

[fiery fog]

Can you cancelaura premed?
Like you have it for the opener and vanish strikes
And cancel it for dance

[vale pine]

that things seem somewhat balanced else

[vale pine]

i think the application is delayed

so doubt you can just macro cancleaura in your dance

but let me quick check

[alpine wraith]

they changed it and now you cant cancelaura it

used to be able to

[fiery fog]

Why does blizzard hate us

[void ocean]

but then ud be taking a talent just for the opener, no

if u gonna cancel it for the dance

[alpine wraith]

yea but it does not work

so whatever

tbh the talent itself only on the opener and on vanish strikes would already be a gain

vs no talent

but blizz decided NO

i mean they saw us cancelling the apex and though

these fuckers

[fiery fog]

Next thing they cancel us and remove rogue from the game

All bugs solved

[obsidian crag]

Taht would make them loose 600 subs

[fiery fog]

All 18 rogue players would be mad

[foggy estuary]

Isnt there a communication channel with blizzard through CC like you guys who write articles in wowhead and your saying has justification? I mean its not much when x players whine about buffs, but there are reported bugs that impair the spec by people who have data about. Isnt there a comm line between you and blizz?

Public github or jira board or smth?

[fiery fog]

I think blizzard dont care and just sees what gets most attention
Unless they see the bugs themselves somehow

[void ocean]

we wish

[vale pine]

they care, but they also have a lot of feedback

[foggy estuary]

Yeah but its not just “feedback”

[void ocean]

yea fuu, wheres ur red phone

[foggy estuary]

Its from people who write artifles

Clearly they know better than me or any x player

[vale pine]

i would always assume no ill intention from them, rather a lack of man power or problems which are not easy to fix

[obsidian crag]

Yes
But depends on how many Microsoft shares u own

[void ocean]

we used to have dev here

[fiery fog]

It would be nice to have some feedback from blizzard as to where the priorities are about bugfixes

[void ocean]

but the outlaw ppl happened

[vale pine]

XD

[vale osprey]

Guys Fuu is actually just a sadist, he loves rogue being bad, he can call John Blizzard RIGHT NOW if he wanted to but he CHOOSES not to

[vale pine]

bugs end up as part of the game for years

[obsidian crag]

What happened to outlaw?

[vale pine]

its just people are more upset now

because patches are even less stable than usual

[foggy estuary]

Sub is stockholme syndrome bis🥲

[void ocean]

nothing , but afaik some folks in outlaw channel were rly rude to the dev

[keen dome]

Just post the thoughts.

Poison toggle, rogue tank spec. Someday they'll see it and do it.

[foggy estuary]

Other classes are more petted. Dk gets instafix on bug two days ago for example

And they fix our stealth sound!!!!

[void ocean]

eh yea but like 5 more bug remained

[keen dome]

I think it's far more likely they just have a prioity list and the 30 blade energy cost isn't a critical bug

[vale pine]

think its just about severity

not all bugs are equally important

like

[void ocean]

and even this fix is questionable

[vale pine]

flagellation did show the wrong tooltip for years

during blades

[fiery fog]

Rogue code is using stealth 24/7 and cant be detected because blizzard employees have no true sight

[vale pine]

was a funny thing to show to people

but did not effect gameplay, so also never fixed

the fix was easy, you just change one reference in the tooltip

[foggy estuary]

A tooltip isnt the same as cost on a freebie though. I get the severity/priority, but this feels like gameplay instrusive prio thing

[vale pine]

but due to how it did not matter at all

[void ocean]

how long were we having that nightstalker bug

[vale pine]

it probably had low enough priority to never get attention

subtlety

for 2 seasons could lose damage by not standing near enough to the boss

[fiery fog]

Acrobatic strikes outranging sectec clones

[vale pine]

then we had a bug where logs would show us as rly bad, due to aug log hook stuff breaking things for us

[fiery fog]

Good times

[vale pine]

which took 1 month to fix, introduced at the start of a patch

[keen dome]

that was such a funny bug

[tepid trellis]

all of DF until it got yeeted

[summer peak]

are we expecting big fixes today.. 😮 so annoying

[foggy estuary]

Is this related to sectec logging and the 100yard thing?

[vale pine]

so for one month, we looked like dead last

[scarlet wolf]

Hey, sorry if this was already answered, but with the changes do we really have to backstab so much in the opener now to build cp before pressing our cooldowns?

[fleet wharf]

this is still a thing though

[vale pine]

then we had a gameplay bug with replicating shadows

took a year to fix

[alpine wraith]

yea they decided to delete the skills that were bugged

[vale pine]

many bugs are either hard to fix

[keen dome]

Only if you want, the dif isn't massive so you can run premed.

[vale pine]

or just not high enough impact to get attention quickly

[scarlet wolf]

Ok thanks !

[fleet wharf]

I mean by that logic we never get changes cuz we're a low pop class

[vale pine]

the 100 yard thing exists since the spell was introduced i assume

[fiery fog]

You can do
Strike - guidon dance - strike - sectec i think

[vale pine]

its nothing new

[fleet wharf]

I kind of get the argument but I feel just saying it's low impact/low prio doesn't really help

[vale pine]

but its also not rly making a diffrence

e.g. warcraftlogs could very easy

just attribute everything akaaris soul to sub rogues

if there is only 1 sub rogue in the raid

however, they also decided to not do that

and shift the responsibility on blizz

[keen dome]

There's only so many hours in the day with a laundry list of bugs. You absolutely identify the high priority and fix them first

[fiery fog]

They dont always work on the most severe first

[fleet wharf]

I mean yes, but is the solution for us to all just migrate to bigger pop classes so we don't get neglected forever? Like I feel that is the only natural conclusion

[fiery fog]

Its also a matter of how complicated it is to fix

[vale pine]

also ye, premed can't be cancled

[keen dome]

We don't know if they are / aren't working on a fix and how long it takes, either.

[vale pine]

so F

[vast scarab]

funny bug not resetting combat on dummy in silvermoon, ported to raid and after 3hrs hearthstone back to silvermoon with insta in-combat state 🙂

[keen dome]

I mean, or just play rogue? None of the bugs are critical or super impactful.

[foggy estuary]

Maybe im tilted because i only play 3 classes. Rogue since vanilla dk since wrath and dh since legion. But rogue is bis its my main main😍
Are other specs as buggy? I know vdh has some bugs in apex as well.

[fiery fog]

I have found a bug for rogue
Im not top damage!!!

[fleet wharf]

I don't have too much gripes about the current state of the bugs and whatnot, just having some doubts now though about what the future of this spec/class looks like

[vale pine]

any spec will have bugs

its not just rogue

[fleet wharf]

it's not comforting knowing we're always at the bottom of the prio list though

[fiery fog]

Also
Though sub plays a little weird atm
Damage wise we are totally fine besides on vanguard

[foggy estuary]

This

[fiery fog]

Just dont compare rogue to devourer

[keen dome]

I dn't think we're at the bottom of the prio list.

Because that wall in the garrison STILL hasne't been fixed

[fiery fog]

I think this isnt on the list anymore chief

[fleet wharf]

look guys we're better than content that's been abandoned, ring the bell of celebration now

oh you guys got rid of the dust hater role, so sad...

[green torrent]

WoW is the biggest mmorpg the market has ever seen. Its parent company is valued at $3.1 trillion. There is no excuse for bugs in the end product.

[keen dome]

That's not how it works but k

[fiery fog]

Money doesnt fix bugs

[keen dome]

If money resulted in progress we'd not have potholes in roads.

But alas, it's never how it works

[green torrent]

it would fix bugs if they knew how to manage their business

[keen dome]

lol

[fiery fog]

People fix bugs
People need time
But what happens is
People need too much time but dont get it

[keen dome]

lmao

[keen dome]

ye

[foggy estuary]

I will always main rogue, i just wish there was a better way to communicate stuff from peopl that actually have skin in the game to blizzard AI dev team because at the end of the day the high end user and theorycrafters know better

[keen dome]

Also, not every developer is a bug fixing dev.

[brave moth]

I doubt Microsoft care or do anything about WoW specifically. There are so many levels of corporate management...

[fiery fog]

Some steal some kind of milk in the office

[keen dome]

Like, I think it's really worthwhile learning how development goes, how stuff is done. Because people have so little perspective on this stuff and it results in dehumanisation of people just doing their job

[balmy gate]

Ofc we are bottom of the bottom 😉 guilds will Bench rogues thats why i dont Touch him until Meta

[fiery fog]

Im lucky enough to not be benched at any boss

My rl loves atrophic

[keen dome]

Damn, but the bench is comfy

[keen yew]

especially vanguard's bench

[fiery fog]

I hope we kill beloren this id so we dont have to do vanguard for 6 vault slots

[keen dome]

I believe in you making an omlette

[fiery fog]

That boss is so ass

Worst boss this season by a long shot

[keen dome]

I agree even though it's from a heroic perspective

heroic pug perspective

[haughty mural]

is it purple though ?

[keen dome]

hah

I was in a pug last night that kept wiping on the egg at 30% trying to do the burn strat. And it was non-stop "GET A DH. GET A MONK"

yeah man those two are gonna make people push their buttons better.

[fleet blaze]

I ran a sim after matching my stats to an Assassination Rogue build, and it keeps telling me to drop Mastery and stack Crit. Is it actually realistic to drop Mastery all the way down to 500 and push Crit to 1200?

Considering the practical side of things, would it be enough to just stick with my current gear and use a Crit Phial instead?

on sing target

single

[haughty mural]

💯

[haughty mural]

classic

[fiery fog]

Before nerf WW was the goat for beloren though

[keen dome]

Yes but it is going to make people do 30% more DPS on the egg

[fiery fog]

The monk is doing that

[keen dome]

Haha

Monk doing 30% of the egg HP in a 2/2/22 would be funny

[tulip light]

are all re crafting issues resolved? like items just straight up disappearing

[keen dome]

I've heard people have recrafted fine and nobody I know who has, has had the issue so

maybe?

[mighty citrus]

how can i see how much haste this sim has, without counting for myself? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9Go5V1PRNTWhsnhEK3t2eC

[fiery fog]

Man my gear is so ass when looking at some sims

Im still at like 106/107k

[mighty citrus]

yeah but this sims lie as

they use 590 haste

so

[fiery fog]

Well true
But still

[mighty citrus]

jsut want to see what the stats are within this sim

if its possible

[fiery fog]

We recleared yesterday up to dragons and chim before progging beloren again

No leather tokens

Still have hero hands and shoulders

Pit bonus rolls gave me the 2 items that are useless

[naive steppe]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[fiery fog]

Btw bonus rolls
People who used them before the bugfix get the rolls back

But keep the items

[mighty citrus]

sounds worse than it actually is

you are still capped due to crests

[fleet wharf]

yea, the whole pool resets too

[keen dome]

Still capped on crests, and the loot pool isn't set so you'll be about the same relative gain

[mighty citrus]

exactly

[fiery fog]

But

Lets say

[keen dome]

only a very very tiny minority will have benefited

[fleet wharf]

surely i'll high roll this time around

[keen dome]

Since you can't rekill bosses, if you didn't get the best item right away, you are a week behind on that without the refund

[fiery fog]

Youve gotten the item you wanted, then you are just further ahead

[keen dome]

Yes

But I imagine that's an exceptionally tiny minority

[mighty citrus]

"ahead" i mean what are we talking about. with no crests there is no difference as its the same ilvl

[keen dome]

It's not ideal but I think it's a fine solution.

[mighty citrus]

vs hc

[keen dome]

I will suffer double belt but I will also still be gear neutral

[mighty citrus]

i get that it feels unfair, but if you think about it twice you should come to iGestalts conclusion as well

[keen dome]

The only way it wouldn't be fair is if I could go rekill Myth Chim I guess but eh

[fleet wharf]

Don't worry king, the alnseer gaze will surely be in your vault this week

[keen dome]

we pray

[celest spruce]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[vale osprey]

Anyone know if recrafting is fixed?

[grizzled hornet]

i recrafted day 1 of patch on both rogues (4 items) had no issues

[vestal escarp]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[sharp seal]

recrafted neck yesterday, no issues

[vale pine]

think the majority had no problems

did not see anyone in our guild mention a problem

[tulip light]

if we used bonus rolls before the bug fix and get them refunden - are any items we got still ticked off the loot pool?

[vale pine]

no

if you got an item

you get an refund of the bonusroll, because the list would not include it

[velvet jay]

Do Mythic raid bonus rolls also get refunded?

[vale pine]

you get an refund if you rolled before the bug was fixed

from what i understand

the problem with mythic is, you only have one lockout

so if you only need one specific item, you can't roll again this week

[velvet jay]

True

[vale pine]

if you need multiple, its whatever

so worse case is

you only need lets say gaze

and you did not get it in your first roll this week

because next week, you can get a dublicate of the item you got this week

[velvet jay]

yeah that would be shitty xD

[vale pine]

as the bool did not shrink

[velvet jay]

Not for me though cause I got my mythic gaze 😎

[vale pine]

but everyone else just got free extra loot

ye, if you got gaze

[velvet jay]

Ez free loot I guess xD

[vale pine]

you essentially got a free roll

which is why people would have liked for everyone to just get extra rolls ^^

the majority will benefit from the refunds

[velvet jay]

True

[vale pine]

tho we are also mostly crest limited

soo

(unless you are like me, and haven't seen gaze drop since week 1 normal)

[modern sentinel]

Just get it to drop

[vale pine]

haha

i even pugged heroic yesterday

but we got 3 loot pieces in a over 20 man raid

(because people pug for bonusrolls with lockout)

[modern sentinel]

Should drop more loot

[vale pine]

i mean, it makes sense for the system

less players = less loot, and everyone with lockout gets removed from the loot pool

however having 3 vs. 6 items drop

dramatically changes the chance of getting one specific item

[warped prairie]

what do i do here? Do i just send Dance+sectec but i wont have second dance in shadowblades

[thick gyro]

Hello, I hope everyone is doing well. I’ve been having some trouble getting good parses as a sub rogue, and I’m struggling to figure out what I’m doing wrong. It actually feels like my parses have been getting worse week after week, which is really frustrating, especially since I finally got my BiS trinket this Wednesday. If anyone could offer some help, I’d really appreciate it.

[vale pine]

do a !log with a warcraft logs record

or ask specific questions

it is rly hard to answer "what did i do wrong", without context

is it a specific boss

e.g. first boss mythic

if thats the case, how much did you pad on adds?

how efficient did you use your cooldowns, maybe you did hold them too much

[obsidian crag]

Are the refunds out already?

[vale pine]

think its later today

but unsure

[thick gyro]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aJFCptMQAKzBbXYy?fight=12&type=damage-done&source=23

[obsidian crag]

Hold

[vale pine]

ye

okay one thing for sure

you need to unbind your trinket from dance

the haste buff applies later

can take up to 1 sec

so by doing this

you lose a lot of your trinkets effect

you also might want to macro dance + secret

so you don't have this big gap between shadow dance use

and your first cast

this is secounds you lose, which easily can cost you a cast in sahdow dance

oh, i forgot to post in the thread

[thick gyro]

Ok thanks a lot, I should cast the trinket before if I want to maximize it's effect if I understand correctly what you say?

[vale pine]

mb

[upper haven]

How is this spec right now for M+ and Raid?

[vale pine]

!opener

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[torn frigate]

this opener is nutz

[final agate]

Hmm

[fiery fog]

Can you update that command to include opener you were talking about earlier?

[steep raven]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[hollow laurel]

okay idk if im doing something wrong, im talented into Airborne Irritant yet when doing the affix it only hits 1 orb. came back to rogue after a MULTI expansion break from the class

[steep raven]

@vale pine Have you simmed AA optimization outside Supercharge in Dance?

[obsidian crag]

Good. Even meta classes can fail in the wrong hands

[steep raven]

Was looking at my log and AA Evis is doing more than Evis (During BL under Blades)

[karmic harbor]

blizz refunding the people who rolled while it was bugged

hmmst

[hollow laurel]

wondering if its only those who used it in the same dungeon i used both mine but seperate dungeons

[tame stratus]

if you cast blind on the orb it doesnt aoe

[karmic harbor]

well your table didnt update so you'll probably get refunded for both

[tame stratus]

need to hit an actual mob

[karmic harbor]

just weird that people got free loot

[hollow laurel]

RIP

[somber sun]

Like see, why wouldn't it work ? They are just doing it on purpose

[tepid trellis]

you can send a natty sectech and bank up on the dances

[tepid trellis]

short answer is that it spreads from the initial target but the orbs insta dissapear so it doesent spread

its a funny lil thing

[next pulsar]

Guys, is sub still better for raid?

[vale pine]

does not seem to be that impactful

[next pulsar]

My boys wanna respec me to outlaw(

[sly shore]

how comes taking premed over silent storm is a dps loss in ST when the sim doesn't even cast sstorm

[next pulsar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steep raven]

ty! Still kinda crazy Evis dmg distribution (full fight)

[hazy breach]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[vale pine]

strike does some rly good damage

[sly shore]

makes sense

[tepid trellis]

its why taking a util heal talent is better than premed xD

[sly shore]

It's just this 30 energy bug is so dog shit

[hollow spear]

No premed feels bad tho

[steep raven]

Nah

[tepid trellis]

yes

[vale pine]

+1 this

[tepid trellis]

actual diabolical

[sly shore]

idk how the fuck it's not fixed yet

[hollow spear]

It's 3% dps worth of mental damage

[sly shore]

but they instantly fix the stealth sound

[tepid trellis]

its 100% just some left over distact code

[vale pine]

probably because we have enough ressouces

[steep raven]

I love this opener! Easy, comfy, repeatable and always the same

[vale pine]

i assume the distract spell clone still has the 30 energy cost

but hard to know

[grizzled hornet]

havent tried it but what if we put distract on cd and use blades?

[tepid trellis]

only have 3 non myth track items left now chest+wrist+1ring

[sly shore]

that's 60 energy

[hollow spear]

Shiv?

[vale pine]

shiv -.-

[keen dome]

nothing, it still uses 30 energy

[hazy breach]

Doesn't change anything

[steep raven]

shush, ez global for 15 energy

[potent frigate]

Why is there Shiv used?

[steep raven]

I don't want to "manually" wait a second

[hollow spear]

You're some lazy mf 💀

[tepid trellis]

he does it based on vibes which is honestly based

cant even flame him for it

[keen dome]

That rules

[tepid trellis]

vibe playing is goated

[hollow spear]

I guess Blizz used vibes to code the cloud

[vale pine]

is that like vibe coding, but for games?

[steep raven]

It works and I wasn't even padding

[keen dome]

No it's good

whereas vibe coding is bad

[sly shore]

it lost you 12k dps

[keen dome]

Because people are good

[sly shore]

can see right there

[keen dome]

and robots are bad

[sly shore]

[tepid trellis]

bonus rolled one of the nexus point rings today

[hollow spear]

I either vibe code or I don't code

[sly shore]

huge

[vale pine]

nice

[steep raven]

Nah, that guy blading the adds at 5.30

[tepid trellis]

nah shiv diff

ong

trust

xD

[sly shore]

real

[hollow spear]

Tru

[steep raven]

Join the shiv church

[tepid trellis]

1 more coup in blades each blade

[sly shore]

premed real bad

I love bugs!!!

[keen dome]

I'll never give up premed

you can't make me

[vale pine]

joining the churge of shiv

[hollow spear]

I don't have enough crit to make it that bad

It's only 0.3% for me

[tepid trellis]

i just wont check

[hollow laurel]

question: is their anything as sub we do pre-key insert

[tepid trellis]

cant get mad at something i dont know

[vale pine]

its almost neutral for me

[keen dome]

blessed choices

[hollow spear]

Ignorance is bliss

[keen dome]

ignorance is bliss and I choose to be blissful too

[hollow spear]

These extra words cost you dearly iGestalt

[grizzled hornet]

u can pre-dance

[keen dome]

they did

beaten in posting, a shameful thing

[hollow spear]

Wouldn't show my face around here for a while if I were you

[tepid trellis]

worse things to get beaten too

[keen dome]

are there

[hollow spear]

The punch?

[tepid trellis]

like the pizza table in 2nd grade

[keen dome]

damn, that's true

[tepid trellis]

so you get the tiny ass slice

[hollow spear]

Stop talking about pizza man

[keen dome]

We need a tier list of things to get beaten too. I think that might be number 1? Posting number 2.

the punch can be number 3

[tepid trellis]

lmao i can play premed

get fcked

[vale pine]

wait, what is a pizza table

and why was it not part of my education class

[hollow spear]

It's like a lookup table

[tepid trellis]

when the teacher bought pizza for the entire class

[keen dome]

the little table that comes with your pizza, so you can put the dip on it

[autumn flame]

Same I'm just sticking to premed on luura

[tepid trellis]

which means you get 1 tiny slice of pizza but if you arent fast you get the worst one

[keen dome]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Pizza_saver.JPG

this is a pizza table

[vale pine]

we never got pizza ::/

[autumn flame]

Better timing with premed anyways in p1

[hollow spear]

Fuu only got beaten, and not to the punch

[vale pine]

in was ripped off, childhood trauma created

[hollow spear]

Austrian education

[vale pine]

(i am joking, if thats not obviouse)

[keen dome]

I once got popcorn during a university lecutre because the lecturer made us watch a documentary

that was a pretty good day

[vale pine]

nicu

[frank wolf]

Assuming you’re german this is the most german thing ive ever heard. Bro had nutrition day instead of pizza day

[tepid trellis]

austrian

so close

[frank wolf]

[hollow spear]

German with a strange accent

[sharp pawn]

any ideas how to spend restored bonus rolls this week? I got guidon from first roll but already killed chimearus so no raid rolls droptimizer says NP rings but I still have hc legs and chest

[hollow spear]

He regularly gets to da choppa though

[keen dome]

nexus has a chest piece to catalyst

So NP is probably good value

[obsidian crag]

using premed for me is 0.5% more dmg

[tame stratus]

[vale pine]

thats swiss

[obsidian crag]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oMbM4JJ1rcf4AnV6YYNEqn

[sharp pawn]

chimaerus also has chest and I will roll it next reset anyway 😄

[keen dome]

hell yeah buddy

[vale pine]

already have mythic chest

[steep raven]

Hell yeah, I can continue to justify using shiv for that sweet 1 combo point for only 15 energy

[upper haven]

Does it have a lot of downtime?

[tepid trellis]

there do be a chest in nexus point

so not a bad place to spend them

[obsidian crag]

not really, u are always pressing btns

[keen dome]

cool as heck rings, catalyst chest, a cloak that exists, a bad dagger, and gloves.

not the worst dungo

[upper haven]

Thanks imma give it a go

[obsidian crag]

i got 15 resi, but getting invites for 16 is impossible

[keen dome]

Have you tried applying with a funny note

[obsidian crag]

i havent, ideas?

[keen dome]

Put half a joke

A good, positive joke

they get the other half if they invite you

One that lives rent free in my head is:

Why do rogues like daggers?
They're a fan of knives.

[obsidian crag]

hahaha

[keen dome]

Someone applied with it to a heroic undermine pug and it's stuck with me since

Having a good, positive and funny note goes so far to letting people take a gamble on you

[sharp seal]

I've had premed +500 vs no premed before changing crucible to gaze

[obsidian crag]

i noticed ppl getting fking outlaws twice instead of me, wtf is happening in this game

[worthy timber]

Premed bug fixed?

[vale pine]

nope

[worthy timber]

ofcourse, and no news on the cloud cover energy cost assuming

[fiery fog]

Queue as outlaw
Change to sub before key starts

[steep raven]

Is shadow part of Shadowstrike Apex rank 1 clone?

[obsidian crag]

i dont understand how general perspective changes from "sin is meta" to "outlaw is meta", like, what are those ppl reading?

[mighty citrus]

being a rogue, does anybody care about meta? 😄

[steep raven]

Prob looking at this

[mighty citrus]

10k runs vs 800? 😄

[void ocean]

so mages aint meta

like none of em?

[obsidian crag]

fucking zac

[worthy timber]

wheres this from?

[steep raven]

mythicstats

[native hawk]

premed

[brisk onyx]

Have you guys noticed that sometimes we can't use dance continuously? especially when pick tfd

[steep raven]

Dam, Shadowstrike is so strong PV is simming over Veiltouched. Prob worse on any fight with adds

[upbeat sorrel]

Very squishy hard to play without premade group/healer at higher levels

Burst damage not great either

[alpine wraith]

ye arcane got the double trouble

30% nerf into 40% nerf

and who knows what fire is

and frost does not have cheat death and all defensives are reactive

so they flop like fish

[graceful portal]

does the reroll refund has happened yet ?

[vale pine]

mage does good damage tho

[brisk thunder]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[brave moth]

Is Ancient Arts not procing from premed a but of a feature ?

[vale pine]

ancient arts is not proccing when premed is up

thats the problem

[brave moth]

Oke so is a bug

[vale pine]

yes

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[brave moth]

Is this bug since this patch ?

[alpine wraith]

you also dont get the copies from the premed cps on strike

that one also helps make no premed better

[vale pine]

was already a bug before

[alpine wraith]

as you didnt spend sht

that is why we wanted premed to just give 5 sht

[vale pine]

but we now play cloud cover

which makes he bug more impactful

[alpine wraith]

but seems like something giving sht breaks the game

apart from tier set

[small rose]

so in the opener after getting 7 cps, using CDs and secret tech, the next SS grants you half your cp bar

[alpine wraith]

and they already had to work on it

[brave moth]

At this point this is a "feature"

[obsidian crag]

what is the new battle res item to buy from AH?

[small rose]

im not sure how to utilize our first art in the opener after secret tech

or we cast SS 3 times consecutively

[brave moth]

Emergency Soul Link

[novel spire]

guys what are the stat prios for sub can anyone tell pls 700 is the haste break but for the others ?

[brave moth]

first pin

[light finch]

soooooooo, blizzard just apologized on twitter for the state of the patch 12.0.5 launch, they are working around the clock to fix things, just days after telling everyone that they abolished crunchtimes.

this for sure means rogue bugs will be fixed in a couple of days ? right guys ? /s

[short radish]

no

[vale osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[brave moth]

Claude API tokes are getting expensive and they are getting people to fix shit kekw

[lilac stag]

@vale pine at this point the faster opener is strike, vanish + strike, shiv

[vale osprey]

Thought shiv didn't generate on bosses?

[brave moth]

That is 5 cp no ?

[void ocean]

at what point do we include shuriken toss

[vale pine]

XD

[lilac stag]

usually 6. I honestly don’t recall if raid boss won’t generate.

[brave moth]

How to fix rogue bugs

[vale pine]

fastest opener

[vale osprey]

Someone tried to cook it yesterday and said when they tested it on boss dummy it didn't work

[lilac stag]

Training dummies don’t always act normal

[vale osprey]

Is this what we're gonna start doing?

[brave moth]

Listen now. You go far, 2 Shuriken toss 1 sec before pull + sprint to get close to boss, vanish Strike and normal opener kekw

[lilac stag]

Untill clones miss if not in lust.

[brave moth]

Boomy opener

[vale pine]

i did test that opener, and it felt fine

[vale pine]

XD

[void ocean]

this reminds me of hacha cooking DM stacks maxing in DF preseason 😄

[vale pine]

!opener

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[alpine wraith]

should be fine you just need 1 sht

[vale pine]

is the most consistent and easiest to execute

[vale osprey]

You ever tested the opener where you take this niche talent called "premeditation" and you press strike and then you payphone while pressing your buttons without a care in the world?

[lilac stag]

I do think in raid that’s likely more than fine and we’re just back to the whole strike dance shit

[alpine wraith]

and you never see the cool wm+clone big crits from strike

[lilac stag]

which server tick did you hit

[alpine wraith]

well getting a lil extra haste

worth

[light finch]

fastes opener ist -> Logout -> Delete Character -> Create Character -> DH -> Specc -> Devourer

[vale pine]

oh ye, thats fine too

[vale pine]

my delays usually ended up not too high in testing, so fine with me

[random mason]

And then you dont find a group cause everyone already has a devourer in their group or is playing devourer themselves

[fiery fog]

My alt devourer gets into groups so easily

Its criminal

281 main rogue doesnt get shit

274 dev dh gets insta invited

[lilac stag]

Remember when people complained this was a 2 button spec?

[vale osprey]

People in my guild still talk mad shit that sub is boring and easy as fuck now

I've seen no other class with optimisations like rogue still

[vale pine]

i mean

now people will say the spec is easy

or plays itself

while many still struggle

[random mason]

Tbh 2 button can still have complexity

Also ppl say dev dh is easy as fuck but the dmg spread on statistics says otherwize

[still quartz]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[west bluff]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

yea actually even with 650 i can hit all the globals most of the time so 700 can check out with that one

[dusky verge]

I think that is people only looking at devs rotation and ignoring completely how it plays in reality with movement optimsation and stuff in an environment with any mechanics

[alpine wraith]

well it is the same as surrender to madness priest

in a way

some did double the dmg of everyone in 2 mins

others died in 1 min

while doing mechanics

[vale pine]

one of the things i probably need to be a game designer to understand is

how can subtlety always get stuff reduced

to then get it added back in a worse form

[alpine wraith]

ahahah we talked about this the other day

[summer peak]

Is this macro-able?

[vale pine]

e.g. we started off doing rly good aoe

• BOOM -> AoE nerf

[random mason]

We had a log review where my 2 dev dh friends checked their dmg on first boss mythic and the difference was that one waited 10s to pop meta and did giga dmg bc of that, otherwise same amounts of casts and everything

[vale pine]

our cleave was decent with nimble flurry

• Nimble flurry reworked -> now our cleave is within if not the worse in game

[alpine wraith]

buffed bp

then nerfed it again

[upbeat yarrow]

look like i have to come back to sub im too slow to play outlaw 😭

[alpine wraith]

oh and also nerfed talents that buffed bp

also another one

[vale pine]

our burst and flexibility was good

• Nerf Burst hard, remove Flagellation (which was in part why our burst was so good)
• Remove flexibility

[alpine wraith]

deleted all dance amps

then put them back again

[vale pine]

Then now 12.0.5

• re-add a worse flagellation

[random mason]

Im so tempted to fish for outlaw weapon, but ill want to throw myself off a bridge in raid i think

[alpine wraith]

clones are just worse legion WM too

[west bluff]

rogue dev might be a salty pvp priest, probably

[vale pine]

so bottom line, we still have:

• Less flexibility
• Less burst
• No cleave
• good aoe but not outstanding

[mighty citrus]

would be a shame if nimble would work again with strike and maybe on top with storm ( 😄 )

[sage ivy]

Maybe they consider sub to be a design failure they refuse to fix, so they keep it relatively weak. People outside this disc doesnt seem to enjoy the spec when theyre "forced" to play it

[grizzled hornet]

so can we go back to what it was? please? pretty please?

[vale pine]

haha

you mean people struggeling all the time

[grizzled hornet]

hahaha

yeah that

lets all suffer

[random mason]

If everyone suffers equally no one suffers?

[vale pine]

to be fair, we are not terrible

[upbeat yarrow]

for me it just soo many thing to track i tried it and i feel sub is still better for me

[vale pine]

its just difficult to understand why changes happen, if they don't improve the general

[grizzled hornet]

we are not, dmg is fine i just dont enjoy the current playstyle mostly because i was used to something else

also i hate haste

[west bluff]

you get used to outlaw with muscle memory

[vale pine]

haste is weird

because we now have breakpoints

and we still don't benefit from lust

[random mason]

Yeah outlaw is a spec where you just gotta figure out the like 4 things to look at and the rest is muscle memory

[grizzled hornet]

yeah can we go versa/mastery and be tanks again?

[west bluff]

it's fun but too much button pressing can get tiresome

[vale pine]

i don't mind the pacing

of subtlety

[alpine wraith]

nope vers is weak

[vale pine]

it is a common complaint from people testing it

"why no eneryg"

*energy

[random mason]

I really enjoy the feeling of playing it rn tbh

[dusky verge]

wonder what those people say when they test assassination

[grizzled hornet]

i mean like we used to have before the midnight changes, remove haste etc

[random mason]

I dont like the cloud bc ppl just start moving away from it every time

But the cloud itself is cool

[vale pine]

2000iq spec because you need to track bleeds

[west bluff]

i just realized that other people can see the cloud and it annoys the hell out of them

[vale pine]

hardest spec in wow

[uneven rampart]

I have noticed since this last patch, that when I pop shadow dance, and shadowstrike twice to get ancient arts to proc, and usually after that I have enough secret technique stacks to continuously spam shadow strike →evic→evic, For some reason its not procing ancient arts anymore. (as often)

Also, it seems that shadowstrike from stealth is not or most of the time not giving me a full stack of combo points?

Has something changed?

[graceful osprey]

Ideally, I would love for them to build upon things rather than redesigning things.

[vale pine]

(i am joking, but dot management is within one of the things people struggle with)

[grizzled hornet]

they cant, did they fuck this up like today?

[vale pine]

(even if its rly easy to do)

[west bluff]

i'm not entirely sure in raids but in dungeons they 100% can see it

[grizzled hornet]

LMAO

[random mason]

When i tried it very briefly the DoT management feels a lot weirder than before

In TWW it felt better idk

[vale pine]

there is an irony

[maiden oar]

yea itd be nice if they built on twws3 sub (while making it more accessible) but it is what it is

[vale pine]

that the most positive feedback for assassiantion i saw in channels ended up at the end of bfa

[west bluff]

Yeah ppl were complaining that you cannot see shit in the ground like swirlies lmao

[grizzled hornet]

join key > firsts pull>tank gathers big pack> smokebomb cus cds> tank runs cus cant see

[vale pine]

at the time where people actually had so much haste, you would overflow on energy constantly

so people liked assassiantion the most if it played the least like assassiantion

[grizzled hornet]

yeah i was asking cus yday in raid i was the only one not seeing things in cds and was wondering how can they see it in dungeons

[random mason]

I think theres a case to be made that those ppl just wanted to play outlaw

[vale pine]

i think its just that a lot of these who gave feedback

[random mason]

But didnt like pirate

[vale pine]

are not assassiantion mains

they probably played other classes and rogue as an alt

or diffrent specs of rogue primarely

its the same as for subtlety

[west bluff]

probably some graphicsd settings might hide it for performance, or raids in general

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/sorry-bro-hand-on-shoulder-gif-11963500747147243380

[vale pine]

where outlaw palyers often give feedback that the new version is the best they ever played

[west bluff]

at least we got some visuals!

[vale pine]

while subtlety mains will point out the many flaws and shortcommings it has

[grizzled hornet]

and the whole community as enemies

[vale pine]

because the flexibility in design, was part of the appeal of the spec

still, i would not say its bad

subtlety is fun

just simple and buggy

[west bluff]

really? capped blade flurry and RTB rework were ass IMO

[random mason]

I mean it's the same on outlaw players new-ish to the spec think its amazing, the mains think it's too stripped down now

[vale pine]

for subtlety not outlaw

[west bluff]

OP confirmed it's dungeon only, might be very fun in big pulls

[vale pine]

basically outlaw palyers who talk subtlety

are more likely to say the new iteration is good

[alpine wraith]

funnily enough we went back to WoD sub in a way but just 5x less bursty

[vale pine]

at least those i saw typing in here

[alpine wraith]

where finishers and builders hit kinda hard

but just the numbers are not there

because we have dance so often

and blades is not a super cd

[light finch]

Some Guildmate of mine was like, hey you got Smokebomb back and then i got sad 🙁

[random mason]

It's only good bc i was too stupid to figure out the TWW one

[alpine wraith]

i liked dust quite a bit

[vale pine]

i don't know the exact reasons

[alpine wraith]

let me think about what i want to do

[vale pine]

i think the simplicity is def. part of it

[alpine wraith]

instead of just following a paved way

[vale pine]

development always works forward

so best case is to improve on the current version

[light finch]

fucking DH took our Smokebomb in Legion, never forgotten, never forgiven.

[alpine wraith]

who wants to bet nightstalker is back some day

[vale pine]

as thats the most likely thing blizz is willing to do

i don't think they would revert changes

[alpine wraith]

as long as they dont fix the DS bugs or buff it a lot

we are good

[vale pine]

or re-design things, unless they are severely broken

[red flame]

Is that why they removed Smoke Bomb so they could make Darkness?

[west bluff]

sub kit was definitely bloated before, to me it feels bland how it plays now, like you have zero to no agency on the damage profile or decision making

[red flame]

😭

[vale pine]

exactly

the dynamic and burst was unique

[light finch]

That’s what I’ve been telling myself for years, smokebomb would be so fucking nice for rogues and the raids.

[random mason]

Wdym you can delay sec tecs by a total of 10s every 90 seconds so cool

[vale pine]

but it makes sense that they removed it, if the goal of midnigth was to cut down and homagionize the game

[alpine wraith]

you can still move things around

but now you will do quite a bit less dmg

overall

[vale pine]

well yes

[alpine wraith]

before you had more wiggle room

[red flame]

Insanity, tbh Darkness fits Rogue moreso than DH anyways

I mean. In what way did Darkness fit DH class theme u til Devourer lol. Their whole thing is Fel & Chaos not shadows + darkness

[vale pine]

you can still not use spells for x amount of time

but you are limited by secret technique

[alpine wraith]

you can still get chargers and use sec tech outside dance to get unseens etc

but you will nuke your dmg overall

[vale pine]

becuase you line up thinks to secret

[light finch]

https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/spell=76577/smoke-bomb MOP Smokebomb

[alpine wraith]

it is a funny thing we can do on belo ren

[vale pine]

and not using secret is a punishing option

[west bluff]

it's fun when there's only one add in the pack remaining and no one wants to pop short CDs

[alpine wraith]

we can completely nuke it with full chargers plus unseens

[red flame]

Yea we should get it back idk wtf they were thinking

[west bluff]

if i don't pop dance it'll live for 10 seconds lmao

[vale pine]

like don't get me wrong hacha

[red flame]

Just delete darkness & give us smoke bomb back, ez clap

[vale pine]

but every class in the game can

delay spells

[red flame]

Or just yeet darkness from dh to rogue

[vale pine]

and sacrafice a lot of damage

[red flame]

& still give us smoke bomb back

[vale pine]

for very specific cases

the problem is, the trade off is high

[alpine wraith]

tbh not many can get chargers or unseens like us but still our dmg is clown sometimes

[vale pine]

so its not flexibiltiy by design

[alpine wraith]

belo ren is just a special boss

unlike many others

where you can literally afk for 40 secs

to get resources to blast egg

[vale pine]

where before, you could very much decide more, especially with dust

[alpine wraith]

i wish we got prep instead of outlaw

and it reset blades+2dances

[west bluff]

tbh one of the only fights that felt really good popping cooldowns is L'ura on crystals

[alpine wraith]

even if it had a 10 min cd

[left ledge]

It’s joe for sub ngl

[west bluff]

the other fights are sort of whatever

[left ledge]

This iteration is almost at the level of DF s1/2

[alpine wraith]

we are not even mid on lura crystals

at least we can snipe a bit with sec tech etc

[graceful osprey]

I thought it was odd how outlaw got prep but sub didn’t get prep like huh??? Blizzard???

[west bluff]

• me waiting for the slow DKs to grip all of them *

[alpine wraith]

it is just the weird thing about sub

[west bluff]

so i can pop sectech

[alpine wraith]

we kinda stole dreadblades

then now it is different again

but we lost prep and dance for a while too

[vale pine]

i actually miss nimble in keys

it feels so weird spamming aoe

even on 2/3 targets

[alpine wraith]

nimble with last seasons TWW set was very good

[vale pine]

its one thing i probably heavily disagree with others in here

it felt more natural to start using aoe spells, especially finishers with 5 or more targets

[west bluff]

tbh the kit is so small now that i wouldn't mind having rupture back or something similar for prio/2-3 targets

[light finch]

old nimble would give us back a good niche, even if it would be only 50% instead of the 70%

[sick jackal]

I agree with this tbh

[grizzled hornet]

wdym disagree? dont we all like doing eviscerates that cleave on 2-4 ?

[lilac stag]

That niche being good at everything?

[raw ridge]

could someone help me check my logs why I'm doing so bad :(? Just parsed a 7 on Imperator in Mythic

[wet robin]

Agreed fuu. I’ve been running for ST in dungeons for prio dam. When I’m straight AoE it just feels wrong now

[vale pine]

the nimble change was a big discussion topic

[wet robin]

Old nimble back would be so nice

[vale pine]

because it was basically a middle path

the new bp on 2+ made aoe super simple

[wet robin]

Really like the funnel niche

[grizzled hornet]

oh i missed that ig

[vale pine]

because you just used bp and storm on 2

[lilac stag]

Funnel hasn’t been a niche since bfa

[vale pine]

and the trade off initially did not exist

because BP and nimble ended up tuned higher

[wet robin]

I guess I don’t mean niche, just I enjoy the play style

[vale pine]

so your prio and cleave damage with BP/storm was good enough to make some people happy

[lilac stag]

So they’ve backed themselves into a corner. Strong ST finisher. strong AoE finisher. Zero cleave.

[vale pine]

its prio not funnel

[hollow spear]

Cleave =! funnel

[vale pine]

prio just means, you keep doing good damage to one target

so there is a diffrent trade off

[grizzled hornet]

we also had flag funnel in shadowlands, but yeah shuriken combo was the goat

[vale pine]

the benefit of funnel just went down, it was never zero

[hollow spear]

Funnel means increasing your prio damage by utilising additional adds (to gain stats/resources...)

[vale pine]

exactly

[lilac stag]

they could nerf BP & do a choice node that adds Evis Cleave or increases BP to current values.

[light finch]

Another problem is that the Rogue community has somehow come to accept that you can't excel at everything, while some other classes have had no weaknesses whatsoever for years.

[vale pine]

funnel is when you can get benefits for your single target output from more targets

[lilac stag]

Again. We haven’t had funnel since shuriken combo.

Flag gave you some priority damage. That’s it

[hollow spear]

Saying other classes had no weaknesses is disingenuous at best

[lilac stag]

That’s flat out wrong

[green torrent]

is there a bug atm where something with rogue will pull more in m+

[vale pine]

flag is kinda funnel

as the lashes end up doing damage to the main target

[tribal blade]

that would be locks

[lilac stag]

A lot of People in here are really good at only remembering 1-2 outliers and ignoring all the other areas.

[vale pine]

its just 2 things:

• the lashes did not a lot of damage
• the combo point economy changed, so you didn't rly get benefits from aoe over st during cooldowns

[lilac stag]

it was just a prio target. You wanted it to live long enough anyways

[vale pine]

this is true

people often talk in trade offs and justify/agree with nerfs

[tribal blade]

sub arguable has funnel now because you can choose to build with storm in aoe and spend with evis

but it's not good funnel

[vale pine]

when it makes rogue as a whole worse

[tribal blade]

you lose a shitton of damage doing it

[lilac stag]

A lot of folks wouldn’t know what to do if they got to play zul and see real funnel, and at the same time played keys with tanks that had no idea how to pull for a sub rogue.

[vale pine]

zul was one fight

[tribal blade]

yeah zul funnel was bonkers

[vale pine]

and funnily enough orgozoa

which was a similar fight

did not see subtlety played

besides funnel

[lilac stag]

I still remember muscle losing his shit in here on the daily with how fucked the spec was because it did no aoe and you needed tanks to pull adds to boss

[vale pine]

also funnel implementations diffrer

e.g. assassiantions funnel

did not trade off damage in aoe

while subtlety had a hefty cost

[lilac stag]

they traded off all their ST

[green torrent]

did our build change?

in m+

[vale pine]

depends on what iterations we talk

but ye

funnel is a nice benefit, if you are tuned well

[lilac stag]

mmhm

[grizzled hornet]

AoE/Mythic+
CUQAphyM11FofNMFa1K3vFEDUCgx2MAAAAAwsMGLTYbZMmZMjxDMzMzsNmthZstNzMzMzMGMmZZAAAAYwYAjZxwADMLahWshZAzMYGDA

check pins

[vale pine]

but if other parts of the spec are missing

[tribal blade]

when a spec is tuned well enough and does funnel

[lilac stag]

I’d like them to give us a choice node. Add cleave or buff BP. Tune current BP accordingly

[tribal blade]

it becomes very powerful in keys

[vale pine]

yep

but unlike subtlety

these funnel specs where allowed to exist for quite some time

before nerfed/changed

subtlety had one fight in the first tier

[lilac stag]

Tuning has changed since bfa

[tribal blade]

it's hypocritical of blizz

[vale pine]

and was immidiatly nerfed to the ground

[tepid trellis]

sub aint ded it does fine

[tribal blade]

sub is honestly not bad in raid except for paladins

[pallid jackal]

Is there like a more optimised AOE rotation? I am running the one in the guides and got like 500-600k sometimes on pulls, but other classes seem to have much higher

[tribal blade]

that 1 fight is dragging the spec down on overall metrics

[somber sun]

true true, how come ?

I literally did 0 damage to them

[sonic quail]

It’s mid

[tribal blade]

don't think so no

sub is the spec for beloren

and it's good on lura

[tepid trellis]

overall stats means nothing for actual progress

[vale pine]

exactly

[tepid trellis]

sub is the best spec on the last two

[tribal blade]

sub is also the prog spec for alleria

[vale pine]

outliners are allowed to exist now

[solemn patrol]

What's the actual %breakdown for sub damage of phys/magic

[tight fjord]

i'm still doing my keys as sub bc i dont have the puzzlebox, and climbing consistently. i think the added protection during shadowblades is huge

[tepid trellis]

Lura is the only fight that matters

[tight fjord]

but im only 3469

[tribal blade]

lol those are the most important fights

[tepid trellis]

rest are some mickey mouse shit

[vale pine]

it is not bad

[tribal blade]

see sub during TWW S3

[vale pine]

the content is also easy enough

[tribal blade]

sub was dogshit on the ST fights

[vale pine]

to make it not matter much

[tribal blade]

but on the important fights

it was really really good

[vale pine]

the diffrence in tww was

we could point with burst and flexibility

which would make us rly good if we still had it this tier

[tribal blade]

i see the point regarding overall metrics

[vale pine]

overall has problems

[tribal blade]

but you could use any spec to kill the first 4-5 bosses

[vale pine]

because wcl does not filter out certain damage

[pallid jackal]

What I miss is the fact that it was good to hold your coup de grace for like 10s

Was good for those burst moments

[tepid trellis]

sub is one of the better specs in the game as a whole

on Lura

one of the few classes that has dmg for all crystal sets in p1

and does really good boss dmg while doing so

[tribal blade]

i was topping our heroic clear and this was before cloud cover buff

[pallid jackal]

What's the cloud cover buff?

[tribal blade]

+6%

[tribal blade]

to our dmg

also i feel like a lot of people are gonna have a tough time playing outlaw and doing memory game

[tight fjord]

6% overall, and moved more of our dmg into sblades

[tribal blade]

unless you have really good muscle memory on the spec

[tepid trellis]

why?

you just look at a picture

[tribal blade]

i guess addon makes it easy

[tepid trellis]

and move

[tribal blade]

we haven't used an addon yet

[tepid trellis]

its tanks and healers doing the inputs

[tribal blade]

because our guild couldn't figure out how to set it up

[tepid trellis]

you just a passenger princess cuh

[native zodiac]

The memory game is just solved by an addon if you are doing mythic literally payphone

[tribal blade]

so we're literally listnening to RL call and doing it from there lol

[tepid trellis]

you legit enable it in Northern sky raid tools

[tribal blade]

it's omega scuffed

[tepid trellis]

download the github images

and ball

[tribal blade]

i dunno why they couldn't figure it out

[fleet acorn]

on chimera do i need to log myself? i heard rogues saying if leader is not in same grp as u going down ur log is fucked and secret technique is not on your dmg

[lilac stag]

The outliers, even current dev, aren’t as egregious as zul sub was. None the less I think overall they’ve done a better job with tuning up until MN and well, they’re doing very little right with all the bugs.

[tribal blade]

if they're still doing that i'll tell them

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/46?boss=3182&class=Rogue

public beloren parses

literally only sub rogues

not a single sin or law

looks like public lura parses only 3 sub rogues

[lilac stag]

sub is still really strong when it matters. Also tanky as hell, even more so dropping premed

[tribal blade]

yeah sub is good

[alpine wraith]

i mean it is the same as people saying we have burst they never lived the cata or wod or even bfa sub rogue

rn we are a 20 sec spec

[lyric valley]

can I actually go premed rn or is straight int?

[alpine wraith]

that sometimes has more cps

[tribal blade]

alleria you also have to go to 19th place to find a non sub parse

[snow birch]

Am I the only one going crazy over the second shadow dance not activating ??????

[lilac stag]

We’re fury warriors with cds

[alpine wraith]

you cant use dance while dance is active

[snow birch]

...

[reef walrus]

you say that you just do this, but then you have multiple people posting this image in your guild discord

[snow birch]

I know

[alpine wraith]

OH BOI

[snow birch]

I have to spend point

Get them back up and then it's used

[alpine wraith]

we had some funny stories

of pc illeterate people

that could not follow the simple guide

of reloe

[tepid trellis]

downloading stuff from github can be hard

[reef walrus]

we definitely didn't have to get people to screenshare on discord

[tepid trellis]

or so ive heard

[alpine wraith]

he even did a VIDEO

we had to anydesk

to some people's pc

[reef walrus]

oof

[sweet moss]

lura addon shit works on my alt but not main

wtf did i do wrong

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade night one of paladins. Almost always last to die. Above tank dmg.

[tribal blade]

HUGE

i hate that fight so much

[red flame]

Fr pallies is ass

[lilac stag]

No skyfury is meh. May have to play assa idk

[tribal blade]

oh damn that's tough

[red flame]

Call the raid atp, no skyfury is insane

[sharp seal]

I'm logging on to my arms alt for vanguard
mainly to destroy Senn's shields

[lilac stag]

the TTS being in the effect audio channel is fucking with me.

[tribal blade]

the only issue is sin feels like complete paper on that fight

[lilac stag]

my audio cues to make up for my eyesight are now fucked

I hate blizzard rn

More than DKs do

[tribal blade]

i tried setting up the in game audio cue stuff

but it was kinda wonky

couldn't figure out how to only have some thing enabled and not others

so just ditched it

[lilac stag]

It was on the master channel. And you could turn effects channel down. Now there’s no way to get just the TTS louder

[tribal blade]

yeah it seemed half cooked

[lilac stag]

terrorists with their black box shit

[tribal blade]

there are some cool things on there i would have liked to have enabled

like there's one TTS to announce when targets hit a certain hp threshold

[lilac stag]

I have to see if MRT has more control over the audio thank NS

[tribal blade]

which is fire for sin

[tribal blade]

might have yeah

[lilac stag]

I can set the abilities to dumb sounds, but not being able to hear the raid warnings is

[tribal blade]

hope they can figure out how to properly show coup on CDM

and give it a sound alert

[ornate island]

hey what rogue spec is currently the best spec for 13-15keys?

[lilac stag]

they can’t figure out how to deploy a patch. I think they gave up on the cdm

[tribal blade]

for that key range sub/outlaw

[lilac stag]

Whatever you’re best at. Likely sub or outlaw.

[tribal blade]

sin is mega depression when stuff dies in 10 seconds

[ornate island]

thanks

[tribal blade]

i did a 16 or 17 seat today where in 1st pull everyone focused the same mob

and then it died when i still had like half my DM+KB left on it

i was extremely sad

[lilac stag]

get fucked prio dmg

[tribal blade]

should be ending that pull ~500k to being like 250-300k

[tribal blade]

yeah it sucks

on lower keys

[ornate island]

reviewing ones own gameplay is probably the best way to improve, no?

[tribal blade]

that and watching what rank 1 players do

and looking at their logs