#subtlety

1 messages Ā· Page 835 of 1

shrewd lantern
#

or whatever the meme trinket is called

lucid jackal
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Its good for law

stoic anchor
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If you wanna roll dungeons what are the bis rolls ? Bis dungeons most gear

lucid jackal
lucid jackal
shrewd lantern
#

law always likes green text

lucid jackal
#

The entire loot table is crit haste

shrewd lantern
#

let's be real

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hey the cloak is crit vers

stoic anchor
#

More like pit of poggers

shrewd lantern
#

and the pants are haste mast

stoic anchor
#

U get them ib mythic right? So 2 of them are pretty good

#

Yo can I show u smtg

shrewd lantern
#

i mean im rolling on xenas

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for the rings

stoic anchor
#

I can show you my pain

lucid jackal
#

xenas for rings is also good

stoic anchor
#

Over 16 by +2s

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You wanna see it?

shrewd lantern
#

my only dead rolls on xenas are gloves really

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since i can outlaw loot and get a wep

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for that spec at least

short radish
#

don't you only get one bonus roll from vault?

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well one m+ one, half a raid one

stoic anchor
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Btw, this is top tier UI

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Here it goes +2 16 pit of saron peepoCry

shrewd lantern
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7 deaths

stoic anchor
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2 dk 2 shaman 2 mage 1 me

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Dk has resi 16 btw

shrewd lantern
#

this looks like a classic ui

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ima be fr

brisk thunder
#

!premed

wicked joltBOT
#

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

swift tinsel
#

13" monitor type shi

#

steam deck UI

stoic anchor
lucid jackal
#

Still crazy strong

stoic anchor
#

I have bad eyesight. -4 and -2 left right eye

#

Watch the timer go down and my dreams fading away

short radish
#

but yeah it's really fucking good either way

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a true BLP almost

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since even if you get cucked on vault

tribal blade
short radish
#

you can use it to target something

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ngl if this is a thing going forward

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taking sockets early

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is kind of a good play

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(next season)

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acutal investment

thorny ridge
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
fair phoenix
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what dg u guys think would be worth to roll

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saron or algethar?

lucid jackal
#

algethar or nexus point probs

fair phoenix
#

nexus?

short radish
#

nexus rings strong

lucid jackal
#

Nexus point or saron I mean

fair phoenix
lucid jackal
#

ALgethar doesnt drop anything lol

short radish
fair phoenix
lucid jackal
short radish
#

depends on enviroment

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it's like 0.4% gain in ST?

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and a rounding error in aoe

lucid jackal
#

That sounds like always better to me

short radish
#

in raid yeah

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but also idk what stats look like in 6 weeks when we have all full 286 myth track gear

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and have "too much" haste

fair phoenix
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if we dont get biss vault, think can get one extra roll to try to aim for puzzle, ring seems ok, wrists is good, hands we can make tier back too

8076CB03-9546-4B80-B44C-2086350DD402.png
#

saying for keys

radiant swift
#

you guys are bonus rolling instead of upgrading mythic items?

vast echo
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the ring is on fuu's bislist right...

fair phoenix
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
lucid jackal
#

Is Pbox actually good in keys or is this just aoe build larp shit

fair phoenix
fair phoenix
vast echo
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oh it was, has been updated i think

fair phoenix
#

but my mind is, if we have stronger burst windows, we can maxim with puzzle

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burst is 25% increase, i think puzzle box can get more in demand packs

short radish
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maybe that changes next week though

bleak night
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i was just ahead of the times

short radish
#

dude's been investing

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time to reap dividends

shrewd lantern
#

people talking bis lists

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in 2026

plush crescent
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Can we upgrade items straight away to 298 or is that a later thing?

ripe flame
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any cool addon or way to remind myself to supercharge prepull? garf

fair phoenix
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126k st

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xD

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lol

icy mulch
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@lucid jackal deathstalker on lura next week king?

lucid jackal
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DS is dead on reset

icy mulch
#

F

lucid jackal
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so, NOMEGALUL

icy mulch
fair phoenix
shrewd lantern
#

outlaw next week

azure thicket
#

by the way do we take crit buff in aa?

fair phoenix
azure thicket
#

crippling for goo tanks gonna try mind numbing

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in aa

lucid jackal
vast echo
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is there a certain number or % where we prio crit over mastery, i think i've been out of the loop/ignorant recently and need to catch up

shrewd lantern
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whenever raidbots says to

short radish
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tbh i've been taking vers buff in AA

fair phoenix
#

no way

short radish
#

something something diminishing returns

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something something DR

fair phoenix
#

no no versa

short radish
#

maybe im a bit outdated though

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because it used to be flat stat or something

pearl swan
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
short radish
#

now it's acutally %

fair phoenix
#

the dr are hard to it on this season

shrewd lantern
#

it was 5%

#

in df

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pre sure

fair phoenix
#

if u use true stats value u can see

short radish
#

i swear there was a time when one of the stats gave flat stat

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which didnt scale

shrewd lantern
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i dont even look at my stat numbers

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except if my haste tax is paid

rancid sierra
#

Do you guys use black power basically the entirety of mythic dragons?

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cuz 2 target?

sullen hare
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black powder is only better than eviscerating at 4+ targets, I believe

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so if the tank is only pulling 3-4 mobs at a time you're going to do similar damage no matter which

lucid jackal
short radish
sullen hare
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sorry it's 4/20 I misread it

short radish
#

np king, happens to the best of us

modest lily
#

do we have any ideas how much crit we might want to reach with the new talent changes tomorrow?

short radish
#

more than today probably

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hope this helps

modest lily
#

it did, answered all of my questions and then some

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awesome job bro

short radish
#

šŸ‘

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there's a bit more details in the pins

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but yeah

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honestly it really is just

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more than you want now

indigo thistle
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hey guys, so my parse at vaelgor & ezzorak/lightblinded vanguard is utterly dog water. anyone have any tips for those fights?

lilac stag
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Donā€™t play rogue.

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kneecap your hunters and boomkin

lucid jackal
#

Ur parse is gonna depend on how little damage ur guild does on dragons

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On paladins idk, follow the finisher rules

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Ur gonna do no dmage no matter what, but if ur parsing bad ur playing bad on that fight specifically

indigo thistle
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what does my guilds damage have to do with it?

shrewd lantern
#

pad on orbs more

lilac stag
#

Assuming itā€™s mythic. Thereā€™s 64 total parses public for sub on vanguard. The range of parsing good and bad is very tiny.

indigo thistle
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we're only doing heroic rn

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my name is adamslays if you want to check for yourself

lucid jackal
#

If ur guild does less damage on orbs, you get to deal more damage on orbs

lilac stag
#

Good luck with heroic parsing assuming 2-3 of you range players know what theyā€™re doing with cd timings

shrewd lantern
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heroic paladins is cool

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you can get a 99 and still be like 13th

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on dps

lilac stag
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Did you beat the tanks? āœ…
You did amazing!

shrewd lantern
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and the extra bodies for more loot

fair phoenix
#

is worth to get hast cap for dgs?

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i mean the 800 one

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since we use puzzle box

lilac stag
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ā€œWeā€ donā€™t use it. You can choose to if groups pulling big enough. Guidon better for most people kicking around in LFG.

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the rules for getting second Sectech in blades doesnā€™t change. No guidon, get 800 haste.

fair phoenix
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asking if is big deal to have it or we can send on crit + mastery

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like maisara

lucid jackal
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Not hitting the 800 haste is sacking yoru ST a lot

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which if you want, you can do

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But its an opportunity cost u need to make

lilac stag
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You can play the spec any which way you want. Forgoing the 800 haste is killing your st dmg

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still 3-4 bosses every dungeon that need to die

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work it out with your group

fair phoenix
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i gotcha

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i will run hast 800 if i need some aoe ( i think no ) i will switch with group

paper siren
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So we are changing the stat prio?

lilac stag
fair phoenix
#

crit for st seems better

paper siren
#

So it only changes slightly for Raid, I only really play M+ so i shouldnt have to change my gear?

fair phoenix
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
toxic igloo
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Does Cold Blooded Killer stack multiple times?

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Nm, guess not

astral mountain
#

I ran a pug heroic void and I got a heroic Light Company
Letā€™s go šŸ™‚

tidal solstice
#

orbs need to die. make them die from you

kind edge
#

good morning guys.

we switch to crit flask, but we need to guarantee the haste around 700. If not, stills haste, right ?

shrewd lantern
#

nothing wrong

tidal solstice
stray talon
#

Havenā€™t seen it confirmed anywhere but Iā€™m assuming ascendant voidcore will be +9 ilvl equally to both myth and crafted items right

shrewd lantern
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isnt it only to weps and trinkets

tidal solstice
#

weps and trinks only

shrewd lantern
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so upgrade mh then gaze then guidon

#

ig

stray talon
#

Yeh so crafted wep only goes up to 294 right

shrewd lantern
#

ig

#

mythic goes to 298

tidal solstice
#

damn feels like christmas eve night. gonna come home to sub buffs and a mythic guidon in my vault.

shrewd lantern
tidal solstice
lilac stag
tidal solstice
west tide
#

are the bonus roll items from vault warbound

tidal solstice
#

w-why would they be warbound?

lilac stag
#

Do you really need to ask with blizzard?

tidal solstice
#

touche

west tide
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ok i ws thinking some heinous alt things

lilac stag
#

Would it make sense that the currency is warbound? peepono

Is that the perfect reason for us seeing it happen during NA beta test? peepoyes

west tide
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idk what to roll for

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i kinda wanna do the alleria neck..

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but i have no m weapon still.. hmm

tidal solstice
#

pit of saron lookin mighty fine

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if you were still using hero pvp neck, get that choker from pit and drop some mastery for crit like the new weights want

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also legs+finger+waist+dagger

west tide
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i have the heroic pit nexk

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and goddam bad rings but what can i do i need the goddam haste

tidal solstice
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yeh bonus rolls are mythic

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whne done at 10+

west tide
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i think ima go for weapon on vorasius

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i just been unlucky

shrewd lantern
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nah kill bel

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and get his wep

west tide
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yeah maybe in 2 weeks

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we just killed alleria no pulls on bel

shrewd lantern
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get vora wep natty this week

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x2

tidal solstice
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yep im not using bonus rolls on raid. mythic plus until im full mythic, then hope for vault+drops from raid.

ornate heron
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whats the best dagger from m+ for sub?

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is it from skyreach?

tidal solstice
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depends on your stats but pit or skyreach

placid pivot
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guys if i killed beloren and chim for my both bis trinkets should i do the other bosses of voidspire to get more chances of vault loot or keep it as beloren and chimaerus

tidal solstice
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HODL

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you gotta game the system

placid pivot
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fuhh that mean

shrewd lantern
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unless the game counts bel as a later boss

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then get fucked

placid pivot
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oh you mean hold chim and belo

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im down

tidal solstice
#

yeh

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dont dilute your drop pool

shrewd lantern
#

the game might have

placid pivot
#

W

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gamers think alike

shrewd lantern
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if it considers bel later

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since drops gilded

placid pivot
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nah i tested it march loot and voidspire loot is seperate

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at least on my paladin

tidal solstice
shrewd lantern
#

looking at this

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with my mythic gaze like

still quartz
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!up

wicked joltBOT
ornate lake
#

Gamers are we ready to be super giga meta now

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Tell me there are hot belfs waiting to invite me to their 17s

timid rose
#

If sub goes meta I need to swap. Pressure is too high then

vale pine
# kind edge good morning guys. we switch to crit flask, but we need to guarantee the haste ...

12.0.5 tl;dr:

  • Trickster everywhere
    • Opener change: Strike-backstab to 7-cooldowns (rotation as usual)
    • Talent switches: Premeditation to a utility node and Finality to Rotten (on single target), Cloud cover.
  • Other changes: Crit instead of Mastery flask, can (if you want) adjust gear slightly towards more crit.
  • Upgrades: Weapon first (only mainhand)
  • Bonus Rolls: Find what you are missing and roll for it.
outer orchid
ornate lake
outer orchid
#

for m+ i think outlaw will still pull ahead but only with coordinated groups
pugs sub is for sure the move

vale pine
#

saw this last week on twitter

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i think i going to install it

outer orchid
#

i've already got it installed and ready to disappoint me

vale pine
#

šŸ¤£

ornate lake
#

Worst vault ever

vale pine
#

haha but the greatest anticipation

queen rain
ornate lake
#

Imagine hypemaxxing and getting all waists and cloaks.

Just get done with the humiliation ritual bruhdead

vale pine
#

everything stays as is

queen rain
vital flax
#

bit confused how can a myth guidon only be a 0.6? dps increase over a 272 puzzlebox if i only have 672 haste? im no where close to being able to fit a second sectec into blades unless i got lust

vale pine
#

oh no, can use crit too

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one change that is relevant too

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is

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blind is aoe again

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which does not effect gameplay, but is a nice qol

queen rain
#

Ye love that

ornate lake
vale pine
#

1% dps

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and its rather irrelevant in m+

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because you fill your bar with storm w/e

outer orchid
#

you WILL backstab to 7CP and you WILL like it

analog hearth
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
ornate lake
#

Me looking at the damage meters of everyone by the time i press blades

analog hearth
outer orchid
#

me after seeing top dps after 5 seconds of shadow blades

vale pine
#

bigger burst is fun

ornate lake
#

I don't remember when was the last time we used backstab as builder in the opener lol. Maybe the older dance into backstab thing from dragonflight or shadowlands, but it was just one global.

analog hearth
#

@vale pine is it expected pbox 2 sim higher than guidon

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i have 795 haste on gear is that why?

tribal blade
#

guidon wants 700

vale pine
#

guidon likes lower haste

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ye

analog hearth
#

but like its nothing

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i guess i use reroll on gaze

vale pine
#

thats a cursed setup

image.png
fleet acorn
#

My sim tells me to have 612 haste unbuffed xd

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Max damn patchwerk 108k st

half comet
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
analog hearth
fleet acorn
#

Idk where all These 700 come from when every sim says best is below 650 with guidon of course

native zodiac
#

Which you most likely will

fleet acorn
#

Wdym?

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I have no Problems pulling rota of in Lust

dreamy root
shadow snow
vital flax
#

how do i sim for the ptr stuff?

tidal solstice
golden thunder
#

!aa

wicked joltBOT
#

Apex talent optimization:

  • Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
    Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
weary tree
golden thunder
#

Does this optimisation also apply for aoe in m+?

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The 12.0.5 buffs sound strong... smells like nerf inc?

ornate lake
#

jesus the patch isn't even live in EU and we talking about nerfs

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Just enjoy the moment bro

tidal solstice
#

for real. "oh no we might hit top 10 and theyll nerf us"

lucid jackal
weary tree
tidal solstice
#

i dont think mafic is allowed here

tribal blade
west arch
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
#

asking for a friend

dusky yacht
vale pine
#

haha ye

#

@keen dome

image.png
keen dome
#

Damn

#

They heard us talking yesterday

dusky yacht
#

I been meaning to ask, what kind of crit % or rating are we looking for next patch? Just going full crit max seems a bit off to me considering coup etc

vale pine
#

true

dusky yacht
#

Someone said like 900-1000

marble comet
#

hi can someine check my log and flame me?

lucid jackal
#

dont think about crit like that

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Just go for 700 haste

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Get crit/mastery the rest

keen dome
#

Yeeee

fickle tiger
#

Do we know if the new Hero talent will be used this upcoming tuesday?

dusky yacht
fossil forge
lucid jackal
#

Check pins for details

keen dome
#

Crit/Mast will naturally happen as you gear for critmast gear. You could swap your gems to crit/mast if you g over 700 enough

fickle tiger
fossil forge
#

Its a banger game though

vale pine
#

not sure if i going to play, but having the oppotunity is good

fossil forge
#

Its deffo worth a try if u fw movement shooters

#

Its like apex on crack

dusky yacht
# lucid jackal Get crit/mastery the rest

Hmm just feels weird like that, altho I already got 25% crit with 687 haste and no crit flask, I'm just pondering if it's better to recraft some gear on top of that

vale pine
fossil forge
lucid jackal
vale pine
keen dome
#

same, fuu, same.

fossil forge
#

This is how i feel in this chat as a youngin

vale pine
#

ye, took a while

image.png
dusky yacht
#

Yeah I guess I can just chill for now with it, use crit flask in raid, mastery flask in m+ (got both already anyway, I'm alch flasks), and then try and sim after patch to see if there's anything I can switch up

lucid jackal
dusky yacht
#

Thanks bro

fossil forge
#

I wish i didnt need a hasteflask

vale pine
#

hastemaxxing

dusky yacht
#

Yeah honestly try and get near 700 asap (if you got guidon)

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It feels so good

keen dome
#

Just get more haste. It's that easy! (it's not that easy)

fossil forge
#

i got 787 for raid and 670 for m+

keen dome
#

Damn, too much and not enough. The worst situation to be in.

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Is it 670 with oils?

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'cos if it pre-oils then it's probably w/e.

fossil forge
#

Oils And flaskHOLY

tidal solstice
#

we cant even link our legendary daggers to our guilds anymore.

keen dome
fossil forge
#

I cba changing gear id just downgrade myself

keen dome
#

It'll probably solve itself.

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ye

tidal solstice
#

"why is rogue representation so low"
"idk buff DKs" - dev

keen dome
#

I mean 670 is probably fine if just a bit more fiddly

fossil forge
#

I still fit 2 techs with both setups in lust

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Cant complain

keen dome
#

Ye, sounds fine then

fossil forge
#

unless double coup

vale pine
#

i am happy they buff a certain spec thats def. not top on this chart

image.png
keen dome
#

I'm happy devourer is going to rip aggro from the tank in every M+ pull and explode.

dusky yacht
#

They're buffing dev?

#

I think they're looking at the wrong statistics or something lmao

vale pine
#

also, how do i know what to meta chase now :/

image.png
fossil forge
#

Pls we need to get rid of aug

stoic anchor
vale pine
#

overall isn't that relevant usually tho

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its still funny how a talent rework ends up buffing specs which already perform exceptionally well

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and i don't mean rogue, we kinda suck

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so buffs are good

keen dome
vale pine
#

like, subtlety niche is supposed to be single target?

image.png
#

vorasius

keen dome
#

Our niche is purple

vale pine
#

haha

#

6% buff is nice tho

#

outlaw stonks go up

fossil forge
#

Outlaw stocks went up hella

keen dome
#

I'm just happy the burst is back

fossil forge
short radish
#

thank goodness sub niche of burst damage really shines through on the damage amp boss omegakekW

image.png
keen dome
#

I know it doesn't solve everyhing but this is a better solution than damage knob turning. It's a good change that carries forward into the future of the spec

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now just give us a raid buff

short radish
#

sure is a shame that the outlaw niche of flat damage profile really doesn't have a chance to shine on this boss

vale pine
#

aoe blind

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is another good change

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so we get some benefits

keen dome
#

Yeah

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It's good it's come back.

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That was a strange removal, even as it was in until.. the season start or close to it?

short radish
#

i still want to know what blizzards thought process on that was

chrome palm
#

they really thought rogue could coast on kidney shot alone in m+

short radish
#

like did they honestly believe that rogue CC in m+ is too strong?

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and if so what fucking metrics are they using to track that

chrome palm
#

nah it was some stupid directive "prune something from every class"

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i imagine

tidal solstice
#

it was based on exactly how you see the story playing out

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feels

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blizzard couldnt balance a plate on the floor so yeah

keen dome
#

It's very much a "I'm very glad you listened to feedback and re-added it, but I would like to know why it was removed in the first place and done in such a weird, slapdash way where it wasn't actually removed for ages?"

short radish
#

thanks

keen dome
#

Because they changed the tooltip but the functionality remained for weeks

short radish
tidal solstice
keen dome
short radish
#

like why they thought it's fine to sit on for 6 weeks

#

i dont think th ats true

keen dome
#

I imagine it's (i think Whispyr suggested this and it's def the best theory for it) a pipeline thing

pale fog
#

Do we get Any % dmg increase on the cloud cover change? Abit out of the loop, Only Saw that its giga for outlaw

short radish
#

but i'd be making stuff up

short radish
reef walrus
keen dome
#

Where they most likely don't want to push talent changes or additions outside of incramental patches. It's like the DS change, too.

tidal solstice
#

yeh that balance philosophy only applies to reogues. see unholy 20% revert that still left htem above all rogues for 4+ weeks

short radish
#

yeah exactly

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if they can rebuff UHDK mid week

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the whole not wanting to p*sh things through

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is kinda wack

tidal solstice
#

its easy once you realize they have quadruple standards

fossil forge
#

What are best dungeons to bonusroll?

#

Pit probs

pale fog
#

Thanks both. Seems sub will still be the play for most raid encounters weā€™ll see

keen dome
#

Nexus for me

short radish
rancid oriole
#

How does the speccs fair against each other now? Are we looking at outlaw dominating or?

tidal solstice
#

i hate that if i want to play outlaw i need an entirely new set of gear.

keen dome
eager latch
fossil forge
short radish
tidal solstice
#

outlaws mastery is trash, alwasy has been, and blizz should feel nothing but absolute shame for leaving it as a friggin mid spectalent from cata for over a decade now.

rancid oriole
#

Ive played all the speccs, assa i didnt like. Outlaw and sub is fun

eager latch
#

you don't like mean gooch?

short radish
#

even switch it up every now and then

#

sometimes play sub

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sometimes play outlaw

eager latch
#

gonna have to put down the poisons after tomorrow

#

it's sub+law season I guess

rancid oriole
#

Yeah, was mostly just wondering with both sub and outlaw getting pretty big buffs

tidal solstice
#

the next time i play outlaw it will be a tank spec to actually make sense of it valuing vers gear over mastery.

fallow ingot
#

Do we get 700 haste with the bis list ? i'm not sure tbh

fossil forge
#

Looking at all the options im bonusrolling Gaze if it doesnt drop on reset kill

#

Biggest%

short radish
#

yeah good to remember in general you play for at most 1 week in advance

#

not 2 months in advance when you can maybe get it for free in raid since everyone else has it

empty bobcat
#

whats our best trinket for M+ ?

#

Ranger?

short radish
#

gaze + guidon/pbox

#

generally pbox

fossil forge
short radish
#

dw i am also in pbox jail

fossil forge
#

I always see the other fuckass trinket

#

Im rocking the guidon x heart of wind

short radish
#

i got baited by that trinket on my paladin w1

#

and i took it from vault

empty bobcat
short radish
#

yes i do work as a clown part time

#

why do you ask

short radish
outer orchid
#

i think i'm sticking sub unless myth 1h shows up in VS drops
as bad as i want to ride the outlaw meta train i'm not sure my currrent available gear would agree with me since i'm so mastery heavy

short radish
#

just play whatever you enjoy

#

because also

fossil forge
#

Onionsoup pirate when?

#

Yarrr

short radish
#

playing sub optimally > playing outlaw suboptimally

outer orchid
#

i have no problems with outlaw
i played almost exclusively outlaw in BFA and DF

short radish
outer orchid
#

i've just been playing sub as a change

short radish
#

oh

#

then play outlaw then

#

fuck sub

fossil forge
shadow snow
#

blizz is crazy, if they see outlaw performing even slightly as good as unholy or other meta specs they will nerf it 100%

#

so riding the hype train is really dangerous

outer orchid
#

guess its time to look into trinkets

vale osprey
echo tiger
#

okay guys why was it mastery is main stat now its crit on wowhead pls tell me guys

fossil forge
short radish
#

we do even biggerer damage with crit on urst

shadow snow
#

dks are good for 4 seasons now

fossil forge
#

I would prefer frost over unholy though

echo tiger
#

okay so i recraft every item now?

short radish
#

sure

echo tiger
#

ill sim it when i have more time

vale osprey
#

Fim when is aussieman reset? Are you guys Tues like NA?

cosmic owl
#

What stats am I looking for? Or does it not matter?

image.png
short radish
empty bobcat
#

haste until you can fit a 2nd sectec into your blades or so

short radish
#

would be haste/crit now

#

but as always sim

#

generally haste/X is a safe bet

empty bobcat
#

will crit push alleria trinket in value?

violet palm
#

Probably. But guidon+gaze seems too op

keen dome
chrome palm
#

Am I the only DS believer left

fallow ingot
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
fossil forge
#

I believe i just dont have the haste

chrome palm
#

join me copium

fallow ingot
#

we still need 700 haste right ?

sullen hare
chrome palm
#

If cloud cover is only 6% st for trickster

empty bobcat
#

when are sims to be expected?

chrome palm
#

theyre out

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
empty bobcat
#

nice

chrome palm
#

ta da

manic glen
#

when we're looking at the pinned and new stat weights for ST, how much more are we inclined for crit versus mastery, like is it worth recrafting boots from mastery to crit? any breakpoints? @vale pine

vale pine
#

you can keep your gear as is and change flask to crit and its fine

#

if you want to go more, can invest more in crit

#

flask change is the biggest gain

dreamy wedge
#

Hey Fuu, since you are here - Is your spreadsheet dungeon slice is updated yet? it use premed and 25% attack speed on dance.

manic glen
vale pine
#

haha

vale pine
vale pine
manic glen
#

oooh

fossil forge
#

What

#

This is so confusing

vale pine
#

its "amount of stats relative to highest stat"

#

the profile (which simmed highest) has a lot of crit, even tho its only some small item adjustments

#

more crit is good with cloud cover it seems

fossil forge
#

i cant with this stat distribution

#

The illusion of choice

manic glen
#

works from me coming from sin haha

dreamy wedge
#

At least it's easy to switch sin/sub

queen rain
fossil forge
#

I only play sub religiously

velvet jay
#

is raidbots already updated?

tribal blade
sullen hare
keen dome
#

the only time I will stop being a Sub main is when they add a rogue tank

#

Unless it's shit

sullen hare
#

The way it plays now is simple enough to be a tank spec TBH

tribal blade
#

i would love sub to lean into the ninja/banshee theme and have a ranged attack possibly

#

reintroduce DFA back that doesn't break mechanics or break certain fights

#

imagine if we had a finisher that was a bow attack

#

firing a shadow arrow or something

median nacelle
#

prophet wants to be sylvanas confirmed

fossil forge
#

Okay unc time to take the pills

#

Too far

median nacelle
tribal blade
sullen hare
#

So purple survival hunter?

tribal blade
median nacelle
#

not hating the idea, aslong as they keep goremaw's bite šŸ„°

lucid jackal
#

Sectec is just DFA but cooler

keen dome
#

I wish it didn't have the pet part of it though.

#

Someday..

vale osprey
#

Give us shuriken as a rogue only ranged weapon drop

keen dome
#

nooo, tank

tribal blade
thin sinew
#

Bros explaining marksman hunter dark ranger HOLY

soft summit
#

Whatā€™s everyoneā€™s plans for the voidcores? Iā€™m thinking of just doing pit as most of the gear has crit and haste and crit is looking like the top stat right now

fleet acorn
#

1.) gaze
2.) Plume or guidon
3.) weapon

hoary bloom
#

Should damage breakdown look something like this in m+ ?

image.png
dreamy wedge
#

if you run potent powder I would expect black powder to be much higer

steel zinc
#

Always weapon

gentle temple
#

Rotation in .5 is still the same then?

dreamy wedge
#

No you are in backstab prison without premed

fossil forge
#

We missed a lil setup

#

now stabby stab

fleet acorn
#

u can get mythic weapon so easy not gonna waste these voidcores on something so easy

karmic harbor
#

i need to read up on how voidcore works

#

is max item level 299 or something?

keen dome
#

298

#

Weapon and Trinkets (once fully upgraded, and this includes crafted) can be taken to 298 (295 crafted)

#

On myth track, that is.

#

No real point using it on a hero track item

vale pine
#

offhand weapon is not

#

if you don't have a mythic MH, it might be fine to upgrade crafted first

keen dome
#

Yeah

hollow forum
#

Damn we rly simming 15k higher this reset

keen dome
#

MH Weapon -> Trinkets -> OH for upgrading. For bonus rolls, I imagine Trinket (Gaze -> Guidon) -> M+ dungeon with weapon and other useful items is the preference.

vale pine
#

all of it makes the number go up

velvet jay
#

is raidbots already updated to sim with the new changes?

weary tree
#

Can we sim it today without ptr=1 or gotta wait for tomorrow until it's pushed to the apl?

frigid cloud
#

gaze of alnseer still best trinket after patch? any chance for umbral plume due to the crit?

vale pine
#

so depending on your time zone, today or not

weary tree
#

ah right

velvet jay
#

Thanks

keen dome
vale pine
#

plume isn't too far off gaze

#

so still a good trinket

frigid cloud
#

yeah i have to sim myself but was wondering plume myth would beat the gaze

vale pine
#

and the boss has a weapon too

#

sooo

#

(tho its also significantly harder to kill)

keen dome
#

298 Gaze is gonna be a lot easier to get for most people

vale pine
#

ye

keen dome
#

In an ideal world though I'd def go for Plume

vale pine
#

i hope for gaze

#

or maybe i just go m+ gear farming

keen dome
#

Because the dagger has good statting, too.

vale pine
#

vault is kinda funny now

keen dome
#

Yeah, it is

vale pine
#

because, if you get nothing

keen dome
#

Not picking an item has gained a lot of value

vale pine
#

you can add a bonusroll

#

can go all in on the gamba

keen dome
#

Potentially get 3 myth items a week with some good rng haha

#

Which I guess does balance out

vale pine
#

mythic+ dungeons only have 5 items

#

so you can get all of them in 2 weeks if you skip a vault (skip = not take a piece but coins)

keen dome
#

Nexus has 7!

vale pine
#

true

velvet jay
#

and forraids you need 2 of the thingies right?

keen dome
#

I think it's the outlier 'cos of the rings though.

keen dome
velvet jay
#

So if you're lucky enough to already have Gaze and Guidon you can go ham on Mythic+ gear

#

damn

keen dome
#

Yep

#

It's another layer of acquisiton that is also adding a maximum amount of time to get an item you want.

tulip light
#

if we roll a dungeon are we guaranteed to get an item?

bleak night
#

every roll gets an item yes

#

its not like old bonus rolls where you could get gold

karmic harbor
#

wait, is this ilvl increase only for the item you roll or everything?

tulip light
#

uh nice

velvet jay
karmic harbor
#

or is it just the rolled item

keen dome
#

The roll item, and the upgrade item are two different sytems

#

You can upgrade any max'd out (normal or crafted) Hero or Myth weapon and trinket by around 10 ilevels

karmic harbor
#

Ah I see thanks

vale pine
mental saffron
#

Why is OH wep getting such high prio on gear upgrades @vale pine

vale pine
#

OH has the lowest prio

mental saffron
keen dome
#

Read the words above the priority

vale pine
#

do i missunderstand bigger and smaller

keen dome
#

no

#

it makes total sense, fuu

#

I think the confusion might be people not understanding it's only weapons and trinkets.

vale pine
#

This is more important > Than this

dark creek
#

Does someone know how much the diffeence will he between 295 mh weapon and 298 mh weapon? Worth waiting for myth thrack to drop before spending upgrade material?

vale pine
keen dome
#

yeah

mental saffron
#

No i missunderstood the limited to weapon and trink part ig

keen dome
#

yee

vale pine
#

ohh

keen dome
#

I think it might be cleaer if it's "You can only upgrade weapons and trinkets"

vale pine
#

if thers i a better wording, let me know

keen dome
#

Because that makes it explict

vale pine
#

sounds good, shipped

keen dome
#

Because you can read that to mean you've limited to weapons and trinkets, and not the game has

vale pine
#

changed, dracthyr_love

keen dome
#

going from turboboost where you could upgrade every slot to just 4 slots, I can see why epople are confused

vale pine
mental saffron
#

Damn, custom edit for low iq people

keen dome
mental saffron
#

Any info on when we get the ilvl boost item?

keen dome
#

nope

#

could be from the getgo

#

could be in weeks

#

they've been very clear on the bonus rolls and told us fuck all about the upgrade items haha

vale pine
keen dome
#

neat, so not a huge dif

dark creek
#

Thanks mate

hybrid swallow
#

Guys very noob rogue here basic question

Do we cast distract automatically? i dont see it in the rotation

keen dome
#

We don't cast distract at all except to distract random mobs.

hybrid swallow
#

wat

keen dome
#

We don't cast distract

#

it's not a rotational button

image.png
#

Cloud Cover is not attached to it in 12.0.5. It's on Shadow Blades.

hybrid swallow
#

but we play

image.png
#

no?

hybrid swallow
#

kk

keen dome
hybrid swallow
#

yy

#

tx

vale pine
vale pine
#

yes

marble comet
#

is the "The First Dance" Talent really useful? isnt it bad if chainpulls etc

hazy breach
#

Its very strong if you intentionally proc it or have enough downtime to proc it

fossil forge
#

Doesnt 2x tfd outperf wm

#

Or some like that

#

Multiple usages

hazy breach
#

That was in tww

#

Now youre comparing it to veiltouched

fossil forge
#

Old info rn?

#

Gg

vale pine
#

yes

#

we already skip wm ^^ (in m+)

fossil forge
#

i love tfd

vale pine
#

its good, can always play it

#

some dungeons its more useful

#

like terrace has a lot of forced downtime

fossil forge
#

I stg they also fixed it where it started counting down later on

#

It seems much more faster now

#

Also might be because i dont track it anymore

vale pine
#

!ui

wicked joltBOT
vale pine
#

there is a tracker for it

brisk onyx
#

My simc still show warning better than PE. Is it because my crit isn't high enough?

vale pine
#

thank me later, when you curse the tank for putting you in combat at 1 sec left

fossil forge
#

I dont have a premade tank to scream at for my tfd so its pointless

hollow spear
#

My monitor has a restraining order against me, so I cannot scream at it anymore

void ocean
#

so these upgrades, thats smth like turbo boost but only for weapons n trinks, right?

keen dome
#

Yeah

#

You get an item and you apply it to a (crafted or otherwise) max'd out weapon or trinket (hero or myth, don't use it on hero though), and it increases it's iLevel by +10 (but also not quite +10. 294 / 298)

void ocean
#

how do i get that item is it a drop or...

keen dome
#

You get it from.. something. It's not super clear. It might be via a quest to unlock it and then it drops like dawnflux?

void ocean
#

i know i should've probably read a guide bout it but if someone could tldr

keen dome
fossil forge
#

Its a quest in voidspire

keen dome
#

This is about the most info we have for it atm. It's not super clear how it's going to work

#

Bonus rolls? Super well explained. Upgrade items? It's not super cleeeear.

hazy breach
hollow spear
#

This is how it will play out for me: I'm going to get one, get infected by outlaw hype, upgrade outlaw mainhand, outlaw gets nerfed, I switch to mage

keen dome
#

hell yeah

#

My gut feeling is it'll require a quest, we'll do it this week, then next week we get the upgrade items dropping from pinnacle content like dawnflux.

void ocean
#

cool, i tho its just my lazyness catching up to me but now i see there was nothin to read

#

cool tnx

keen dome
#

Ye they've not really communicated the upgrade stuff well, nor has it been obvious from ptr

#

So it's a big 'ol "guess we'll find out"

vale pine
#

tl;dr: we wait for beta testing on na

void ocean
#

NA folks, our betas

fossil forge
#

Th,, test subjects

graceful portal
#

Hey guys question about haste cap. When i look at the wowhead bis gear most of the pieces are crit/mastery. The 700 haste cap is with trinket/flask counted ?

void ocean
dreamy wedge
#

@vale pine The weapon comparison one lacks crafted at 285 which many of us plebs have.

void ocean
#

u want base haste so it could affect ur dance

vale pine
void ocean
#

trinket haste just reduces cd of sec tech afaik

vale pine
#

oh

#

ye i made a 2nd sim

#

with weapon comparisons

hollow spear
#

I'm convinced Vorasius brought all of his daggers to recycling

#

None left

graceful portal
# void ocean not trinket

Ok so if flask gives 150 haste having 550 haste is fine ? Or is it better to get it naturally and user a masterty flask ?

vale pine
iron obsidian
void ocean
graceful portal
#

Okok thank you very much

void ocean
#

sure

#

i hope they include weapon boost into recrafting

fossil forge
#

Or however is the other trinket called

hollow spear
#

It's a shame that one's absolute garbage

fossil forge
#

The worst part is its finally my turn

#

because everyone has it

#

It just refuses to drop

void ocean
fossil forge
#

yellow class big damage very important..

graceful portal
#

Just another quick question : if i shadow technique w<hen my shadow blades are at like 1 sec remaining does the last hits are still counted as in shadowblades ?

#

idk if that makes sense sorry

hazy breach
#

Secret technique clones do not snapshot your buffs

#

The clones need to hit within the buff

graceful portal
#

Okok so better not using it and wait for a full shadow dance after burst window

hazy breach
#

Well no, ideally you should get it inside blades

graceful portal
#

I do not have guidon so i don't really know if it's possible

hazy breach
#

Get more haste

graceful portal
#

Yeha but for the moment i just sit on it i guess ?

thin sinew
#

o7 my guilds prog. our giga healer just left T.T

tribal blade
#

for all the hits to hit insta

hazy breach
#

I just want there to be 1 clone instead of 3 hits

#

So i can see big number

#

Go boom

vale pine
#

a gigachad clone

paper siren
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
upper narwhal
#

rework secret technique into a 3 second channel that sends shadow clones out to attack random nearby targets

#

call it clone spree or something

tribal blade
#

only issue with that is then we'd only gen 1 sht from sectec

hazy breach
#

Ye but were drowning in sht anyway

#

Who cares

tribal blade
#

lol fair point

hazy breach
#

But yeah a 600k crit would be more satisfying than a 250k+250k+100k

tribal blade
#

yeah that would be tight

#

while they're at it make the clone attribute dmg to us instead of a pet

hollow spear
#

Why are y'all do delusional?

#

It's thematic for sub to have skills that do their damage in small chunks

#

Even our normal evis needs to do a physical, a shadow and an ancient arts portion

tepid trellis
#

for the old times with the massive crits

echo tiger
#

will skyreach be the best bonusroll dungeon ?

hazy breach
#

Skyreach, pit and nexus point are all solid options

#

Its gonna depend on exactly what items you have already

echo tiger
#

ty ill take alook on the others you said

olive canyon
#

havent seen a myth wep drop at all

#

so i need to chase that possibly in M+

hazy breach
#

All the dungeons mentioned drop daggers

echo tiger
#

skyreach is the best for me by far i could need every item in it

hollow forum
#

Raidbots subscription coming in clutch,u just droptimize s1 dungeons on 6/6 myth upgrade

tribal blade
#

@hazy breach do you happen to know in rough % how much more pure ST sub does over sin in keys

#

(right now)

hazy breach
#

No idea actually

tribal blade
#

gotcha

#

my arms guildie i'm doing keys with is going colossus which is big aoe dam but not great ST

#

i was thinking about swapping to sin

#

but there's no shot sin is doing nearly as much pure ST as sub

#

probably gonna just stay sub, also gaining +6% is beefy

stiff stirrup
#

why not wait another day and you wont have to think so hard

olive canyon
#

Higher keys assa feels solid on bosses

tribal blade
#

i have no idea how much pure ST sin is doing in keys atm

#

i guess i could scrounge around some vods

#

but i honestly cba haha

sacred gull
#

I feel lile my sin with M+ talents is doing less dmg in ST

#

Than my sub

tribal blade
#

just wondering how much

#

well on reset it's gonna be quite big

#

and i'm not seriously pushing, so prob just stay sub

raw frost
#

guys , wnana ask

lilac stag
raw frost
#

now after the change to that talent, will the enchant of rings 1 % crit damage be more viable

hazy breach
#

They were already the best

#

But yes

tribal blade
#

i'm back to sub

raw frost
#

ok

short aurora
#

and my gaze is still on lfr track

lilac stag
ivory orchid
#

When will rogue reign supreme?

short aurora
#

i gotta admit as assa on magister terrace the jellyfish boss is hella fun

tribal blade
ivory orchid
#

Iā€™m on Kalshi now betting what patch it will be

tribal blade
short aurora
#

show me your fistweapon then

fleet acorn
#

@leaden prairie your ayje cdm weakaura only change icons size & bar color right? it fucked my cdm manager profile xd wanna revert it

tribal blade
short aurora
ivory orchid
#

He uses glaives

raw frost
#

guys

#

where u will use the bonus rolls ;d

#

i assume the trinkets

#

first

tribal blade
#

bonus rolls are heavily reliant on what you have already

raw frost
#

dont have trinktts xD

#

none of the ones that are bis

tribal blade
#

then you use on trinkets šŸ˜‰

short aurora
#

then you have your answer

#

lol

raw frost
#

I was just curious if people already haev them

#

is weapon next or tier set parts

tribal blade
#

oh if you don't ahve a myth dagger

#

do dagger first

#

definitely

raw frost
#

have 276 hero

#

and 285 crafted

#

Ok noted

tribal blade
#

you have the choice to upgrade the crafted dagger

#

then bonus roll trinkets

#

or try to bonus roll myth dagger

#

then upgrade that

short aurora
#

cant wait to see the ilvl increase completly brick raidbots once again

raw frost
#

btw will i be able to upgrade the item tho

#

i have 2/6 from the voidforge thing

#

it needs 6

#

have no idea how it works

tulip gorge
#

the +10 ilvl on weapons and trinkets is separate from bonus rolls, right

vale pine
#

yes

#

its two systems

lilac stag
weak glade
#

Iā€™m so exited for reset bro

#

The new build looks like fun and itā€™s better

thin sinew
#

Shadowstrike >backstab >backstab

raw frost
#

is it worth xD

#

for just 20-30 k dmg

#

to not use premediation

opaque valve
#

will both systems be available tomorrow? (upgrades + rolls) or we just don't know yet?

paper trail
vale osprey
#

Can't wait to see some NA Beloren prog logs soon - wonder just how high sub will be on that p2 scrambled egg damage.

raw frost
#

btw now with the remove of premeditation , what is the opening > shadow strike > backstab > backstab > shadow blades / shadow dance > SECTEC and the usual d;

lilac stag
solemn patrol
#

so is the vibe gonna be sin in keys sub in raid?

obsidian crag
hazy breach
#

Yes but not how and when to aquire them

lilac stag
#

Acquisition timegated. Trashpandascheme

obsidian crag
#

yes, gated content is the norm now

fleet wharf
#

gotta get that DAU up

lilac stag
#

so they may not be available on reset

#

Speculators smh my head

raw frost
#

if my trinks are these

#

i have champion , feather and one shit trinket with master champion šŸ˜„ should my focus be trinkets entirely

#

cause they are really dragging me down

#

263 ilv

lilac stag
#

Why do you not have crucible?

raw frost
#

which is that

#

i am new so not very familiar

obsidian crag
lilac stag
#

the renown reward from void

raw frost
#

with the crit , is it better than mastery proc trink

#

I don't know

hazy breach
#

Its better than anything you can get from m+ yes

raw frost
#

Ok will take it

hazy breach
#

Gaze and Plume are better

raw frost
#

I just think if i am able to kill first boss of raid and chimerys on mythic somehow

#

and use the bonus roll there

#

and pray

hazy breach
#

You can only bonus roll one of them

#

Costs 2 to bonus roll raids

raw frost
#

oh

#

and 1 dungeons ?

hazy breach
#

yes

raw frost
#

ok

lilac stag
#

Mmhm since dungeons have 2x the loot typically

obsidian crag
#

spending tokens on Skyreach is the way, for me at least, almost all myth gear there is an upgrade for me

mint swift