subtlety

[lucid jackal]

they wont bugfix it and say "eat shit"

when they bugfix damage gains, they provide buffs

they did this for dev, and shadow multiple times this expac already

[warm marlin]

they also fixed udk bug at the start of tier while nerfing it, then had to hotfix buff after the stats came out that it was bad

[molten citrus]

They’ve done multiple hotfixes to specs even this season where they didn’t do that tho no?

[warm marlin]

but they werent going to compensate if it was still good

[molten citrus]

Hotfixes that both “buffed”/“nerfed” specs

[placid pivot]

are they nerfing assa and outlaw and buffing sub

[brisk onyx]

Why are you all arguing about why sub doesn't deserve a 5% buff? I think that's how cloud works, and worrying about it unnecessarily is pointless

[molten citrus]

That’s not the point of this conversation at all

[molten citrus]

No no and yes?

[brisk onyx]

Oh really? Maybe my English isn't very good, but that's how I appear, because someone is worried that this is an unexpected design flaw

[placid pivot]

wait where are you seeing sub rogue buffs

[molten citrus]

Pins

[warm marlin]

we agree that sub deserves a buff, just the way its implemented might be unintentional on blizzard's end, and the data they usually work off of does not suggest that sub should be buffed

[molten citrus]

No one said sub doesn’t deserve a 5% buff

[placid pivot]

LMAO wtf is that buff

[gilded lodge]

5%

[lucid jackal]

I would legit be stunned if they decided to "Fix an unintended interaction" for a spe that is already shit and provide 0 compensation

[civic lava]

Do we know how much crit is valuable compared to before, starting 12.05 ? right now i'm around 22% crit, 20% haste and the rest in mastery

[lucid jackal]

Whether or not they intended to buff the spec, whether or not they "want the choice nodes to be balanced" which isn't even a philosphy the devs have ever followed

[placid pivot]

is cloud cover a talent

[lucid jackal]

hero talent choice node

[civic lava]

It is , a hero one

It's a node, right now we use the +10% crit on finisher i believe

[placid pivot]

hoh maw gawd i leveled a rogue just on time

[civic lava]

from fazed target

[molten citrus]

It has… implications. In other parts of the game. That’s the only reason I expect it. But maybe they’ll just add a modifier for that part of the game and leave you guys out of it who knows

[warm marlin]

bro we are about to explode people on tuesday

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-going-to-be-such-an-exciting-day-willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-itll-be-an-amazing-day-will-be-great-day-hope-itll-be-a-delightful-day-gif-21430454

[molten citrus]

They never let sub be good longer than a week or two, genuinely

[placid pivot]

guys realistically how long do i take to pop guidon before dance

[lucid jackal]

Am I living in fucking crazy town

In what fuckign w orld

Is PVP BALANCE

going to affect RETAIL PVE RAIDING

[molten citrus]

Apparently yeah

[shrewd lantern]

pvp balance

4 monks in a 6 player game

[molten citrus]

Being a dick isn’t going to make us sane though

[warm marlin]

rate this disc priest damage

[molten citrus]

Not like it’s never happened before

[shrewd lantern]

I think my favorite is still

bfa disc

[molten citrus]

If we’re talking about an unintended thing or a “bug”

[shrewd lantern]

when they had schism buffing trinkets

[molten citrus]

That’s not exactly “balance”

[shrewd lantern]

and you had priests playing the spear trinket from crucible

though bfa had alot of those...

execute range judgement hpals

from azerite

[molten citrus]

into kaylux too

that clip is gold

[half comet]

aside from guidon and apex talent on supercharge are there other optimizations

[warm marlin]

also got this banger

[molten citrus]

[short radish]

isn't this half the reason that rogue CC so limited as it is

because of how strong it is in pvp

[shrewd lantern]

you can stun people twice (so your mage can do damage)

[lucid jackal]

U understand what I'm talking about is different right

I'm talking about a talent being overtuned in PvP, causing it to get nerfed in PvE

Not "broad design philosphy about rogue utility"

[molten citrus]

normally i'd agree fully

[lucid jackal]

I'm going to become the joker

[warm marlin]

an unintended interaction causing more damage might go unnoticed if its not resulting in crazy damage in pve

[molten citrus]

the only reason i don't is because of that fact it could be unintended anyway

[warm marlin]

but if it has more attention from pvp its more likely to get fixed

[lucid jackal]

a 5% buf fins't crazy

[warm marlin]

yeah thats what i mean

if it puts sub in middle tier

[swift tinsel]

played an outlaw key on accident and I kinda liked it, is there a wellness hotline I can call

[warm marlin]

it wont ever get fixed because of pve because its not doing crazy things

but if it goes crazy in pvp because of the burst then it might get noticed and fixed

[molten citrus]

[shrewd lantern]

anytime sub does damage in pvp

it gets threads of complaints

[swift tinsel]

I mean its more the 20-25% st burst increase that'll turn heads more so than the 5% overall buff

[lucid jackal]

U guys are speaking like DEVOURER DH ISNT GETTING BUFFED

AND MM

AND ARMS

U guys need to get ur fucking heads checked

[swift tinsel]

RED HERRING WHATABOUTISM

[lucid jackal]

YOUR MOM

[molten citrus]

it has nothing to do with them

[swift tinsel]

NO U BBNO$

[lucid jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/bye-bye-mogged-mewing-looksmaxxing-horse-gif-8402458070362786768

[molten citrus]

nor does it even have much to do with rogue getting buffed in general man

[shrewd lantern]

WHAT WAS THAT?

[warm marlin]

udk getting buffed too btw

[molten citrus]

i think rogue should get buffed

[shrewd lantern]

WE NEED TO BUFF DEVOURER ANOTHER 10%??

[bleak night]

[swift tinsel]

rogue should get buffed

[molten citrus]

tru

[shrewd lantern]

consume x12

then press something else

ig

[swift tinsel]

but ddh mm and uhdk should not

mm getting explosive shot back is crazy talk

on top of their current cleave

[warm marlin]

also is mm getting buffed

[eager latch]

stoked for ddh buffs

they needed em

[warm marlin]

i thought it was mostly nerf changes

[shrewd lantern]

remember

[molten citrus]

its getting a lot of abilities back

[shrewd lantern]

#gripisntaraidbuff

[molten citrus]

but i heard they're losing something as well

[eager latch]

uhdk has to be the comfiest dps class in keys

it's like driving a fucking buick man

you can cheese every mechanic

unkillable

insane damage, fully ranged pretty much

[swift tinsel]

iirc mm is losing Precise Shots dmg but they're adding baseline dmg to the abilities it affected

and this lowkey huge

[eager latch]

rogue .7 rework is gonna go crazy

🤲

[graceful rock]

for bird, should I box before gate?

[bleak night]

mfw the mm rework is just readding the stuff they lost in midnight

pog

[graceful rock]

that means were getting flag back

[warm marlin]

that'd be heat for sub

[eager latch]

bring back sepsis and flag?

[warm marlin]

i assume one on use?

[lucid jackal]

How normal classes react to a buff: quick lets keep it a secret
How rogue reacts to a buff: I'm not saying we should get nerfed, but if we were to get nerfed, heres how I would do it

[graceful rock]

whats the double on use tech

[bleak night]

insert mage copypasta

[warm marlin]

what if others should be more like us huh

[eager latch]

rofl beat me to it

[warm marlin]

box guidon is kinda good for first egg burn and kinda bad for second

its not really super big

[lucid jackal]

I refuse to believe a class change is ever a nerf

so I'm just gonna keep saying MM is getting buffed until proven otherwise

[bronze turret]

Who is telling blizzard? It’s just a conversation about it possibly getting nerfed. Not that it should get nerfed. And that’s mostly because blizzard are fucking idiots

[lucid jackal]

And I'll probably be correct

[warm marlin]

its hunter so i believe you

[graceful rock]

i'll probs just stick with box

[warm marlin]

i think box after gate can be good then

dont think you can get triple tech in

[lucid jackal]

"New build found"

[warm marlin]

so you just triple dance and box after gate

[swift tinsel]

isn't their apl super skeezy too

like they hide shit on purpose

[warm marlin]

6 picoseconds after tuning announced too

[swift tinsel]

picoseconds sound adorable ngl

[eager latch]

picodegalloseconds

[lucid jackal]

no

Thats like propaganda ppl do to smear the hunter TC ppl

Just a wivestale

[eager latch]

spousetale*

[bronze turret]

@lucid jackal I appreciate the undying optimism. But sometimes it’s like you’re new to the game when you’re not. Like blizzard have never ever been unfair and idiotic in the past. Like killing off things because they annoyed a lot of players ingame. Particularly because of pvp reasons. If sub suddenly starts to blast people in pvp cus of this. They look at it and say “oh it’s not meant to stack the crit dmg” then they will destroy it and not compensate. 100%

[swift tinsel]

[warm marlin]

I do think some classes just do not have good tcers

[eager latch]

lmaoooo is that a pasta

[lucid jackal]

I bet you a wow token

[warm marlin]

and sometimes they benefit as a result (sometimes they are worse off)

[swift tinsel]

ye there are some that are quite...haphazardly managed

[graceful rock]

wait do ppl think theyre gonna nerf sub bc the smoke bomb is gonna annoy group members?

[swift tinsel]

no

the 150% crit dmg

bc tha't giga

[eager latch]

maybe we'll get to have fun for like a week

[lucid jackal]

People are saying "beacuse the interaction may not be intended, they are going to nerf it with 0 compensation"

[eager latch]

and then guy will tweet about it

[short radish]

no people are being cautiously optimistic

[eager latch]

it'll hit the airwaves

and we get crazy nerfs

calling it now

[lucid jackal]

and then saying that "it being really good in pvp will highlight how overtuned the interaction is, causing it to get nerfed for pve

[bronze turret]

It will annoy people everywhere. And it will be ridiculous for pvp and the pvp community are some of the most whiny bitches in the entire world

[lucid jackal]

I think both premises are extremely wrong

[swift tinsel]

idk I could see a world where they keep it bc you're still contingent on critting to take advantage of the triple Surprising Strikes

[warm marlin]

not overtuned, unintended!

[swift tinsel]

and the extra crit dmg doesn't nimble

and strike doesn't nimble

[gilded ferry]

wait a sec

cloud cover also works in pvp, right?

[warm marlin]

yes

[short radish]

yes

[gilded ferry]

they have 2 things with the same animation?

[short radish]

all of these changes are pve and pvp

[gilded ferry]

because smoke bomb still exists

[short radish]

yes

[lucid jackal]

cloud cover is way larger than smokebomb

[warm marlin]

it doesnt work like a regular smoke bomb if thats what you mean

[short radish]

but that's a separate issue

[lucid jackal]

^

[warm marlin]

that would certainly not make it to live

[short radish]

im like 80% sure that smoke bomb also comes up as red if you are an enemy

[gilded ferry]

nah, i meant the skill presentation

[gilded ferry]

yea, it gets redish

[bronze turret]

You think they use their brains at blizzard hq. If the person holding the most important office in all of US can’t even use his brain. You expect some god damn slave intern will? Pls guy. Nobody is begging for a nerf. But sometimes you just have to be realistic. Happy if they ignore it. But because of the size of the animation and the effects, I suspect it will have a hard time just dodging attention

[lucid jackal]

Okay If the argument is always just "blizzard dumb blizzard bad" sure

ANything and everything is possible

[bronze turret]

Yes because historically they are dumb blizzard bad

[toxic igloo]

Does Cold Blooded Killer stack?

[lucid jackal]

Yes but even if they are dumb and stupid, you can draw consistencies in their patterns

[bronze turret]

Can you? If they don’t know how to compensate without ruining balance in other places they just don’t do it good enough

Remember shuriken combo? Compensated, right?

Some more storm damage?

I don’t think they intended to buff outlaw in particular like this

They’ve been doing tiny buffs here and there, but nah, sudden 10%+ hero talent

Makes sense right

[lucid jackal]

U wanna bet a wowtoken on it

[lucid jackal]

Multiple, S tier specs are getting buffed

Its a 12.0.5 patch, random specs get random huge buffs

[vital flax]

Just making sure i understand correctly, if im in dancr and i have no supercharged cp and no proc that refills my combo points, i should shadowstriking even if im full cp

[dry flame]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[dry flame]

The optimisation is at start of dance (with supercharged), when you have 5+ ShT

[vital flax]

Like dance shadowstrike would be a gain over backstabing till full cp and then dancr sectec?

[dry flame]

no, because you want to Dance at 6+ combo points instantly Secret Technique-ing

and the optimisation is for the 2nd supercharged

unless you are deathstalker ofc

[vital flax]

Im completly lost then lol. U would always do dancr sectec ss evis

So whats the optimisation ??

[dry flame]

sometimes the Apex doesnt' proc on the shadowstrike after ST

even if u have stacks

[glad bough]

During Ick and Krick's Fixation it says it increases icks attack speed. then i go to ick and it says he does a physical attack and a nature so which would i press to immune him fixation cloak or evasion

[iron obsidian]

evasion

[glad bough]

TY

[dry flame]

Also, during blades, you second-dance to cover the duration of blades, so then you definitely SS twice to proc the Apex @vital flax

[dry flame]

just be careful, because if you are even slightly turned to the side, he will hit you - you have to be directly facing boss

[vital flax]

Ngl youve lost me. The apex is when u do a finisher if you have enough sht youll refill your cp no?? Ss cant proc the apex?

[dry flame]

the apex are the black bars that appear on your screens

[vital flax]

Yeah so thats the thing that refill your cp when u do a ginisher

[frank wolf]

It also empowers your next finisher, which is the part that is pertinent as to why you want to line it up with supercharge

[vital flax]

Ohhh so the optimisation is for the second finisher of dance u would fish for a proc with ss until you got it to then finish

Cuz first one is sectec

[dry flame]

You are overthinking it. The apex has a clone duping your finisher, just think of it as extra dmg. The optimisation is for the extra dmg to be extra on a supercharged finisher.

• You ALWAYS Dance/ST (macro),
• then you force-proc the Apex, even on full CP, so it procs on a supercharged finsiher

Thats it

[tribal blade]

not until you got it, no fishing

[molten citrus]

its not so much fishing, as it is forcing

[tribal blade]

only do it if you have 5+ sht

which you should have

[molten citrus]

^

[tribal blade]

you're pretty much guaranteed to have 5

because sectec will give 4

actually without premed might be slightly different now

[vital flax]

How much of a gain is that?

[dry flame]

small

[tribal blade]

~1%

[dry flame]

if it causes you to mess up, dont bother

[tribal blade]

you can not do it and parse

[dry flame]

focus on fundamentals

[warm marlin]

only da first clone give it before your strike

so 2 sht

[vital flax]

Fuck it lmao

[tribal blade]

ohhhhh actually?

damn

thought it was 4

this whole time

[dry flame]

Reset problems for reset us

[warm marlin]

ye because clone 2 is at 1.2s

[frank wolf]

unless you have a coup bro then dont fuck it

[tribal blade]

MMM right

[frank wolf]

because then you can have a dance + blades + supercharge + apex coup de grace ohhhh im cumming

[warm marlin]

if you have 1 sht when you press macro though

[vital flax]

Is it better to overcap energy before a dance and farm sht stacks or not overcap

[tribal blade]

btw i'm gonna be warning signs gang

[warm marlin]

you only need 1 auto proc, which with our attack speed is always gonna happen

[dry flame]

It's preferable to never overcap energy, but the most important is to not delay Dance/ST

[frank wolf]

energy is a non-factor in dance just focus on entering at max or no cp, preferably max

[dry flame]

Also make sure when you dance/st, you have 30+ energy

[vital flax]

Yeah but like sometes ill be at full cp like 5 sec before dance should i send evis and lose stacks with the backstabs to rebuild cp or should i wait and overcap energy and not lose stacks

[frank wolf]

usually id look at sht stacks to determine this; maaybbbee if sending the evis means you have to backstab 4 times to get back to 7 combo points it may be worth holding, but if you can get back to 7 within 1/2 stabs just send it

i mean generally you should probably not be waiting 5 seconds to use a finisher

[fair stump]

So basically the optimization would look like Dance -> Sectec -> Double Shadowstrike IF ancient arts didn't proc on sectec, right?

[frank wolf]

worst case you just enter dance then quickly premed shadowstrike into sectec

[vital flax]

If i understood correctly u double ss if u dont have a proc for the evis

So u have a proc garenteed for the supercharged evis

[molten citrus]

if u have 5+ shadow tech stacks

[frosty axle]

why my soul/sec tech dmg so dog

[dry flame]

@tribal blade No First Dance or Premed in M+ gonna be a lil' strange on reset

[molten citrus]

if you aren't logging yourself and you get too far from the player logging, it can log as if the dmg didn't come from you

assuming you're talking about sec tech dmg on WCL

[frosty axle]

yes

[molten citrus]

yea

kinda have to log yourself as sub i think

[tribal blade]

it'll be better than in raid tbh

M+ you can at least strike>storm

[frosty axle]

comparing with another rogue on chimaerus and the diff is crazy

[tribal blade]

instead of in raid strike>backstabx2-3

[molten citrus]

ye it'll log it as another entity entirely or something

akaaris

[vital flax]

Does that apex talent optimization also apply in aoe with shuriken storm/blackpowder

Where u would double shuriken yo boost your bp

[molten citrus]

faq says ye

[tribal blade]

you can do storm yeah but most people do strike

because you gain more prio

i do storm sometimes though just for fun

[frank wolf]

WE are all still playing premed after reset 🙏

[frosty axle]

even with that feels like its low, maybe just cause i used on boss more than on colossal with the spawns, i see it now further down it is separate

[dry flame]

What are you doing, having fun? This some sort of game??

[dusty totem]

Is it just me or does it not feel like sec tech hits hard anymore

[frank wolf]

lowkey its just you on the super dl though

[tribal blade]

nah if you're not incredibly depressed playing wow something's wrong with you

[dusty totem]

In the past i feel like you pressed it and you flew up the meters

[dry flame]

So rogues are the only ones playing correctly?

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[frank wolf]

its still like that dude sectec is a nuke

[dry flame]

Well, it hits multiple times, so it can definitely feel underwhelming in thr moment

[dusty totem]

Yeah i know how it works. But Idk i guess i might be misremembering

[dry flame]

Its still pretty big in logs, but I agree it feels a bit meh in the gameplay moment - delay, multiple hits etc.

[dusty totem]

Yeah i haven’t looked too much at the stats tbh

So you are probably right

[dry flame]

Here's the rank 1 sub log on Vorasius breakdown

It does dmg, for sure

[serene notch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[placid pivot]

bro every log its just shadowstrike evis

u dont have to shadowstrike twice before evis

just be brain dead and perfect your shadow dance secret tech

[plush roost]

It hurts me to see such pad..

Release the r1 boss damage!

[warm marlin]

strong words from the one who got nimble nerfed on beta..

[plush roost]

How does one pad in keys with nimble hmmge

[warm marlin]

erm uhm erm

[plush roost]

I do find the ds breakdown being half on sec tec

Pretty funny

[plush roost]

At the rate im going in keys rn i might get assa nerfed xd

[chrome palm]

Low key

My dark brew breakdown is disturbing

[warm marlin]

your what now

[chrome palm]

He doesn’t know

[warm marlin]

i saw the build i didnt know you played it

we need to restore order here

[chrome palm]

You thought it was a joke huh

[plush roost]

I fiddled with brew on lura

But we had trouble on adsa

Adds

[chrome palm]

I was stupid

And had ist

[plush roost]

So i had to full swap to the lame hero tree

[chrome palm]

I dropped that for wm

Fuck the adds

Dsm and auto attacks are the same boss dam as secret for me

[plush roost]

Kekw

[chrome palm]

I’m also enjoying

[warm marlin]

im going law

think its decided

[chrome palm]

The ds playstyle

[plush roost]

Bro same

Its actually so fun

[chrome palm]

A lil bit

Trickster so brainless

I get to think about my abilities a little bit

[plush roost]

So much rotational variety with apex dn, quietus procs, getting 2 dn in dances

[chrome palm]

Like when you don’t supercharge the dn evis because secret is at 3s in blades

It’s all feelcraft

But it’s great

[left ledge]

I think you def always supercharge dn evis

[steel zinc]

All gone come reset

[chrome palm]

Yeah but like

Sometimes

[plush roost]

Too bad cloud cover ruins the day

[steel zinc]

All hail the new smokebomb

[chrome palm]

It kinda evens out anyways

[left ledge]

Ngl both hero trees suck ass

[chrome palm]

I also think that like

The ds stuff was more than 3%

[left ledge]

I get the DS cope but DS is genuinely awful to deal with

[chrome palm]

I’m pretty sure it might be maybe

[steel zinc]

Nah new trickster stuff is nice

[left ledge]

Nice in what way

[chrome palm]

It’s genuinely fine on lura

[steel zinc]

Actually looks like a hero talent now

[left ledge]

Wow we do more damage

Poggers

[steel zinc]

Nah animation etc

[chrome palm]

Except that one time after the boss split but it instantly reapplied

[left ledge]

What animation

[steel zinc]

The smokebomb

[left ledge]

There’s new animation in .5?

Oh

[chrome palm]

Beeeeg cloud

[plush roost]

Yeah its definitely at least 5%

[steel zinc]

When you go into CDs you have a huge animation

[left ledge]

What DS stuff

[steel zinc]

Idk I dig that

[left ledge]

The apex optimization?

I’m pretty sure it was 3% no

[left ledge]

I haven’t seen it to be fair but cool if it looks nice

[plush roost]

No just the haste optimization. Simmed 3% higher but thats not what my experience playing it is like at all

[left ledge]

But the gameplay for both trees is still ass

We’ve legit just been downgraded

[chrome palm]

Yeah

[steel zinc]

You know old smokebomb? Or the current PVP talent? That animation and circle every time you use blades

[left ledge]

Eh I see

[chrome palm]

Yeah but way bigger

[left ledge]

That’s whatever then

[chrome palm]

Like 4x size

[steel zinc]

Yeah way bigger

[plush roost]

Cant wait to bring smoke bomb into lura so glaives are even harder to see

[steel zinc]

It's really nice you actually have now a big visual

[plush roost]

Wait..

[chrome palm]

Yeah on outlaw too

When I’m staring at ui

[plush roost]

Do you think the cloudcover is gonna stay in red/blue realm on lurs

[steel zinc]

Ui shows it as buff on CDM

[plush roost]

Blades lines up on a memory game...

[chrome palm]

Ruh roh

[plush roost]

Ruhroh

[chrome palm]

You can test it now

[left ledge]

You get the buff whether or not you’re in cloud no?

[chrome palm]

With distract version in lfr

[steel zinc]

Yes it does

[chrome palm]

But I can

Cba*

[left ledge]

Isn’t it 10 sec

[steel zinc]

You can leave it and it starts and 10 sec timer but also persists 10, sec after the cloud is gone

[left ledge]

I see

[plush roost]

Yeah but the memory game would probably cut it short slightly if the smokebomb stays in those realms and doesnt come with you

[steel zinc]

The uptime is pretty big ngl

[plush roost]

Just based on my experience sblades happens at the start of thr memory game

[sick epoch]

Silly question which for sure someone alresdy asked. Does something from the opening change with the new sub changes? Especially asking for ST

[plush roost]

2 globals later on reset actually

[placid pivot]

can we all agree assa and combat need nerfs and sub needs more buffs

[left ledge]

We might not play premed

[warm marlin]

2 globals

[left ledge]

So you will be backstabbing to full cp

[steel zinc]

Yes you bs to max cp since you don't play premed

[jagged hamlet]

not playing premed feels SO TRASH

[left ledge]

Well

[jagged hamlet]

but then i realize i do that natty on ass

[left ledge]

It bugs our apex

[jagged hamlet]

and its hard to bitch lmfao

[left ledge]

Premed is quite nice

But blizz can’t fix it

[jagged hamlet]

yeah i get it, just a def 'feelcraft' feelsbad

[left ledge]

It’s too difficult

[steel zinc]

Predmed is meh if you think about it just makes cp basically a dead class resource

[left ledge]

Not really

The entire loop of combo points is to fill and empty

[sick epoch]

Okay, thank you guys

[left ledge]

Premed is essentially just allowing you a bit of extra burst at the start of every dance

But in their spaghetti ofc it bugs apex!

They couldn’t just leave shadowcraft the way it was

[frank wolf]

didnt someone say the difference between premed and nomed was 1% after the changes

[left ledge]

“Ah fuck what do we give sub rogue we forgot about them”

[frank wolf]

fuck that percent

#stillpremed

[tribal blade]

@plush roost hey king for the leech debuff in seat do you need to vanish/meld the actual cast

or can you do it when you have the debuff

[left ledge]

Let’s give them shadowcraft, then elaborate with shadow clones, then keep their mastery only about finishers, and then their biggest hit now is going to be shadowstrike (a physical damage builder)

[jagged hamlet]

we are almost back to the gloomblade right after shadow dance being our highest damage window 😍

[left ledge]

So close

Soon we will be back there

Our aoe already devolved back to what it was

[tribal blade]

there would have to be some insane tuning or a new cursed tier set

to make that talent playable

[left ledge]

Well our current tier set is the only reason our rotation even works

[tribal blade]

this is true

[left ledge]

Next tier set you already know

[tribal blade]

SECTEC CHARGES?!

[jagged hamlet]

its ok, usually they bake it into the talent tree next tier when its like this

[left ledge]

After blades is over, backstab and shadowstrike are guaranteed to spawn shadow clones and deal extra 20% shadow damage

Ship it

ESP the

After blades is over

Ugh I love those effects

[jagged hamlet]

for 30 seconds but decreasing by X% every 2 seconds

[left ledge]

[jagged hamlet]

or less % every 2 seconds

to spawn

[left ledge]

We cooking?

[jagged hamlet]

bro just make me a dev

i got you

[tribal blade]

backstab would still hit like a noodle even with all that right

[left ledge]

You’d think

[tribal blade]

it woudl ahve to be some like +300-500% modifier

i'm guessing

[left ledge]

But you go gloomblade rotten lingering

[jagged hamlet]

just save vanish for after blades 🥰

[sick epoch]

Anyway I guess mothing is changing on the rotation, just full cp st->eviscerate (on st)

[tribal blade]

but rotten only affects casts in dance

[left ledge]

GG

I didn’t even know that

[tribal blade]

yeah

[dry flame]

Bake blades into dance. In fact, bake sech tech into dance too, we only use it then. Bake trinkets into dance too. Bake vanish into dance, bake dance into dance

[tribal blade]

unless you found a way to cast 0 generators in dance lol

[left ledge]

It’s ok what I posted was only the 2p

The 4p is actually going to be for every finisher in dance you do 10% more shadow damage stacking and each stack refreshes it

Lasts outside of dance

[jagged hamlet]

macro /cast dance /cancel aura dance

[left ledge]

Get your glooms out

[warm marlin]

the giga sectec

[left ledge]

Make sure you sectec 1.2 sec before dance ends!

Make sure you hit the haste breakpoint to finish 4 times in dance and fit sectec at the end!

[jagged hamlet]

if you sectec 1.4 or 1.0 before dance ends you single digit parse

[warm marlin]

yes but think

the tfd reck pot tech

the 18 second dance

we ramp it giga style

[left ledge]

The damage only for the first 20 sec of the pul

[tribal blade]

how about after dance ends your next backstab/gloomblade deals +500% dmg and strikes up to 7 additional nearby enemies

[left ledge]

HOLY wait

Stab can’t flurry

Can it

[warm marlin]

until a beloren style fight then we dont dance for 2mins

[tribal blade]

nah it can't

used to be able to

[left ledge]

GG

[warm marlin]

below healer damage

[jagged hamlet]

hold up to 18 seconds for .8% dps gain

[left ledge]

You know the scary part is

I was bullshitting

But when I brought up the haste breakpoints

I saw it as a possibility

[chrome palm]

This suggestion was not well received when I made it

[left ledge]

So I think I will quit with the cursing of this spec now

[warm marlin]

yes but think with the ramp tier set

we go crazy

[chrome palm]

The ramp tier set?

[left ledge]

Flag at home

[left ledge]

Just fkin around with ideas

Not real

I hope

To any devs in here pls

Don’t

[tribal blade]

what fucking language is this

[chrome palm]

@ me when they put back rupture flagellation and cold blood

[tribal blade]

am i in a group with AI

[chrome palm]

My 3 goats

[left ledge]

Arabic

[warm marlin]

I think what sub really needs at this point is more things that extend cds so they last longer and do less burst

[left ledge]

He’s saying he will drums

[warm marlin]

[left ledge]

You have no lust

[jagged hamlet]

Simlish

[tribal blade]

ah i see

[left ledge]

They seem to be Egyptians

[chrome palm]

Hmmm

Nah they will do

Secret dance on one button

I fear

[left ledge]

Tell them

Masr om eldonya

They’ll love you

Real

[tribal blade]

hahha

key starting

[left ledge]

Trust

[jagged hamlet]

yall ever miss shadow rupture?

[left ledge]

No

I’m known for very bad RNG

I do not miss that nor do I miss Sophic devotion

[jagged hamlet]

what about Echo of Nelth trinket RNG

[native zodiac]

bomb dispenser beacon in aberrus

while gloomblade simulator

[jagged hamlet]

TAKE ME BACK

[ivory leaf]

in keys if i run with tanks who don't know what a brake pedal is, is it still worth running first dance?

[native zodiac]

tbf aberrus was a fun tier

[azure thicket]

quick question do we get the achieve next reset/patch if we hit 1% for our faction or is it overall?

im probably 4 16s and a 17 from title and the mount i think ?_?

[jagged hamlet]

aberrus was kinda trash imo but my guild ran it down other than post nerf (harder) zskarn and echo which we way overperformed

[short radish]

1% is just mount not title

[azure thicket]

yeah i misspoke

i just want the mount

[molten citrus]

wait the 1% mount is next week? what

i thought that would be an end of season thing

[azure thicket]

already cleared horde side but gonna grind

vaguely recall hearing anytime you get 1% or if it is end of season that's fine too

[short radish]

isnt it just

[native zodiac]

it is end of season

[short radish]

3.4k

[molten citrus]

oh so just hitting top 1% at any time rewards the mount?

[azure thicket]

been eating grass or whatever

[native zodiac]

makes no sense for 1% to be not end of season

[short radish]

and the 1% is a future season thing

[azure thicket]

oh it is 1% at end of season

[molten citrus]

normally its 1% at end of season

[molten citrus]

for things like this yes

[molten citrus]

ok i was about to say

[azure thicket]

figured, thought it was getting rolled out in .5

[short radish]

oh

[molten citrus]

hitting 1% rn would be too easy ngl

[short radish]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-achievements-and-rewards-coming-to-mythic-in-patch-12-0-5-381231

3.4k is a timelost saddle

but there's still 1% achieve

and then i guess the usual 0.1% achieve

[molten citrus]

1% is a new mount

[short radish]

yeah

[molten citrus]

that hasn't been shown yet

[azure thicket]

heh nice

[jagged hamlet]

what do we think 1% will wind up being? like 20's? higher?

[molten citrus]

18-19s at minimum i think

[short radish]

pulling a number out of my ass

18s

or 19s

yeah

[jagged hamlet]

yeah thats fair

[azure thicket]

someone hit 4k last season

im thinking 4.2k

[short radish]

a good general rule of thumb is "whatever the ultra sweatlords are pushing w1 is whatever the 1% will be at the end of season"

[short radish]

you cant compare to last season

scaling is way different

[azure thicket]

yeah but tomelvis is right there

[jagged hamlet]

scaling is different and also more gear faster AND 298 weapon on tuesday

[molten citrus]

I doubt anyone pushes past 22-23s this ssn

[short radish]

nah im not saying that the 4.2k is wrong, more so that last season is a completely different set of scaling that can't really be compared to well

[short radish]

you reckon? there's still like 3 months left

+10 ilvls to gain

[molten citrus]

Only on weps/trinkets tho right

[jagged hamlet]

i wouldnt be surprised if there are a few keys that are timed 2-3 levels higher than the rest

[azure thicket]

yeah a 23 is already tremendous

[molten citrus]

Or you mean gear prog in general

[azure thicket]

like crankers unlimited amounts of damage

[short radish]

kinda both

people are probably 1/3 myth max upgraded

so still a lot of ilvl for stam

[molten citrus]

With knowing fuck all about pve rn

Maybe a couple 24s and rest 23 at most

[short radish]

and then yeah also extra 10 ilvl more on the weaps/trinket

[molten citrus]

Is my rando bet

[thorny ridge]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[azure thicket]

i mean to specifically bet 24 with the aug and an assassin rogue

[molten citrus]

I thought about going for the 1% mount actually

But boosting is gonna go crazy for that fr

[short radish]

yah

[molten citrus]

So many ppl are gonna buy that shit

[vale pine]

not rly, subtlety is the best spec for rogue after the buffs for the specific fight

[short radish]

people already selling 16s for like 500k

[molten citrus]

And 18s for like 1.4

[steel zinc]

Rogue yes but not in general

[molten citrus]

[vale pine]

unless you plan to reroll

we are good

[steel zinc]

I really don't get m+ buying. I get why people buy mythic boosts for Endboss mount

[azure thicket]

i feel twiggy at 277 compared to some of these players who didn't make a hero dagger

but it's not too bad

[steel zinc]

M+ title buying or anything is just fake bragging rights

[molten citrus]

M+ has mounts and now a top 1% mount

[azure thicket]

it's literally less* ethical than buying a mythic parse

[molten citrus]

Title buying is dumb ye

Agree

[steel zinc]

Yeah but those are the old ones you can buy right?

[molten citrus]

No

3400 is for old ones

[tranquil sorrel]

What would new opener feel like? Shadowstrike, Backstab till max cp then dance sectec

[molten citrus]

Top 1% will be a new mount threshold

[steel zinc]

1% is new right?

Oh ok

Dam yeah people will buy that sadly

[molten citrus]

Yep

[steel zinc]

1% should be per spec or class not overall that would encourage diversity

[azure thicket]

tin foil but mabe one day hitting 1% 3.4k whatever will unlock new dungeons

[lucid jackal]

Yes

[molten citrus]

it would end up being surprisingly common that way

i think top 1% is kinda fine

but idk

it will def push higher end participation thats for sure

even if most of it ends up being boosters

[shrewd lantern]

it will push more rmt

[molten citrus]

yea

[azure thicket]

or people buying gold

[shrewd lantern]

same diff

[azure thicket]

which is rmt with extra steps

yeah

[shrewd lantern]

also why io is irrelevant

[azure thicket]

no..i already made fun of buying a 100 parse on salhadaar last season today

heroic raider jumps into a 4 night a week ce guild disaster lol

[molten citrus]

ppl are buying parses now?

tf

[azure thicket]

apparently

[shrewd lantern]

chinese guilds moreso

pretty sure

resil is too forgiving

[keen steppe]

Is buying a chance to be in 1% not very stupid? I mean 1% is not a fix rating

[azure thicket]

or like..did they get banned and ebay an account like i dunno who cares

[shrewd lantern]

I mean

peoppe buy r1 pvp

and that isnt either

[molten citrus]

1% is very forgiving

[shrewd lantern]

you likely will get banned or forever clowned on

by the community though

[azure thicket]

still got his rating by 50, guy made a tank tilt in a 14 maisara

[molten citrus]

especially in content like m+ with such a big number of players

[native zodiac]

dont check nexus king parses 💀

[shrewd lantern]

i feel m+ community doesnt witchhunt people who buy carries

the same pvp does

[short radish]

have you not seen the spreadsheet?

[shrewd lantern]

Nah pvp is still worse

[molten citrus]

not banned naw, unless they catch u getting piloted

[shrewd lantern]

people make multiple threads

and reference it alot

[short radish]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xJGKq1kTmKgm_n62ahhY57ZE_uQTmjtqRkGtMTJNOQk/edit?gid=0#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mOD_dqrk_cddW7RBhaYTTOOvUFG5RH-rD0UXQXOgPcs/edit?gid=0#gid=0

there are multiple

[shrewd lantern]

I feel most of the time it is pilots

[molten citrus]

l0l

[keen steppe]

My goal is 1% atm

0,1 is unrealistic

[shrewd lantern]

just because selfplaying to r1

is way harder

[molten citrus]

ye

it isn't for blitz

unfort

ppl buy blitz r1 like crazy

[molten citrus]

[shrewd lantern]

i got this gem off askronnie’s twitter

[azure thicket]

i don't even think..boosting in m+ is that bad in context

[shrewd lantern]

someone got upset at him

for making fun of a fellow community member

[teal prawn]

i just wanna get to 2400 this time

[azure thicket]

its not scummy cause the only thing that gatekeeps m+ prog is player skill

[molten citrus]

why? elite is 2300 now :3

[azure thicket]

and you're paying for people to win a dungeon

[teal prawn]

you mean I coulda been elite last time?!! blizz why you do this to me

[molten citrus]

naw its new with midnight

[shrewd lantern]

are you implying pvp isnt skill as well?

[molten citrus]

glad/elite are 2300 now

[azure thicket]

no that's competition with a winner and a loser

[teal prawn]

2300 shuffle?

[molten citrus]

thats elite

[shrewd lantern]

yeah but resil

[molten citrus]

glad is 3v3 only

[teal prawn]

i see

[shrewd lantern]

and not losing rating for bricking

makes me hard to take it serious

[keen steppe]

You fuck people that are good enough and try to reach that levels fair on his own

[shrewd lantern]

resil already did that

[azure thicket]

yeah but at the end of the dungeon you can right click peoples names and friend them

there's uh..counterplay

[short radish]

especially tanks who buy IO

[azure thicket]

in pvp you're straight rigging stuff which is anti-competitive

[shrewd lantern]

also aug players

[molten citrus]

not quite

[shrewd lantern]

mostly play at an io above their skill level

[azure thicket]

what do yew mean

[tribal blade]

when people started making the lists of suspected buyers i found quite a few names of people i know on it

[azure thicket]

i mean we all know someone who's gotten a dungeon or raid boost

[tribal blade]

nah but buying title

scumbag behavior

[azure thicket]

yeah i guess buying a whole key level to get title

[molten citrus]

regular boosting isn't exactly "rigging" anything, the booster plays with the boostee, but the boostee still has to play well enough that the booster(s) can carry them in pvp. they can't just afk like in a dungeon/raid.

[shrewd lantern]

most peoppe who buy raid boosts are mount collectors

[keen steppe]

For me is boosting to a specific point ok

[shrewd lantern]

typically dont flex it either

[tribal blade]

yeah pvp is a lot harder to boost for sure

[azure thicket]

true i see from the blacklist there's grey parses in 21s so i dunno

[molten citrus]

win trading, piloting, ToS stuff of that nature is rigging yeah. but its ToS for a reason

[shrewd lantern]

pvp they explicitly say they cant guarantee you rating

past a certain point

and charge you by time

[molten citrus]

oh i thought u were talking about pvp when u said rigging

[azure thicket]

oh no i was win trading etc

[molten citrus]

ye that stuff is ToS

and they usually do ok with banning them, after season ends tho normally unfort

[civic lava]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen steppe]

But when you play for % stuff you are competing with others in my opinion

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah idk wintraders in pvp typically get a dq

m+ not as much

[turbid mesa]

Hey guys there's no uncapped crest this reset right? Because even if I get bonus Rolls for myth 1/6 items it's basically the same as 6/6 hero right? And I won't be able to upgrade more than an item a week anyways with our 100 crest a week

[azure thicket]

yeah uncap is this week

afaik

[short radish]

uhhhh

got some tomato sauce for that?

[azure thicket]

21st

[shrewd lantern]

tbh its petty but kind of valid

[lucid jackal]

uhhh

[azure thicket]

just raid yap

lemme double check

[lucid jackal]

I don't think crests are uncapped on the 21st

[civic lava]

gonna need a source on that mate

[lucid jackal]

What week do ppl think we are on

[shrewd lantern]

Do people forget crest uncap is usually

[azure thicket]

oh its just bonus rolls then?

[short radish]

bro the .5 patch has come out. this means we're like 2.5 months into the season right?

[shrewd lantern]

more than half the tier is over

[lucid jackal]

Its just bonus rolls yeah

[fallow nimbus]

Even the bonusrolls are a bit too soon

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah let me laugh at the no gaze people longer

cmon blizz

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[molten citrus]

7 weeks iirc

[fallow nimbus]

Like we will have all the items but no crests

[molten citrus]

.5 patch came early this season

[short radish]

.5 patch has come super fucking early

[fair wedge]

this

[molten citrus]

its like 1 or 2 weeks early

[shrewd lantern]

midnight came out early

[molten citrus]

[fair wedge]

ive had so many boostees that i js cldnt help them past a certain rating

[azure thicket]

probably cause they ended up on schedule

[ivory leaf]

In M+, if we only get benefit from The First Dance when the dungeon forces a break because the tanks I play with don't want to play around the talent, is it still worth running? If not what should I swap it to?

[shrewd lantern]

we werent even 2 years into tww

[lucid jackal]

Even getting a few extra resets, its a fairly solid talent

[molten citrus]

it do be like that sometimes

trust me ik

[lucid jackal]

What do people even swap it for, finality or smthing

[chrome palm]

Vt I think

[short radish]

or WM

[azure thicket]

i haven't played first dance in a while wm or uhh the aoe talent

[shrewd lantern]

@molten citrus i found this gem

[molten citrus]

L comms

[shrewd lantern]

and yes thats the european tourney rdruid as

[molten citrus]

that from this last cup?

i have to assume it is

2 monks

[shrewd lantern]

finality or vt i think

[shrewd lantern]

bfa

[molten citrus]

oh tf

[shrewd lantern]

double monk has been good multiple times

[molten citrus]

how long has mw had zen spheres

so disgusting

[shrewd lantern]

the current one idk

NA has more big time ww mains though

[steel zinc]

Imo that's the biggest limiting factor right now. You have or I have to many pieces to upgrade

[lucid jackal]

Bro I'm like 280

I'm fucking poor broke fat

Jobless

Chopped

Short

[marble sail]

its called being based

[lucid jackal]

Ugly

I smell bad

[steel zinc]

Lol

Nah forever your pretty. Also make another YouTube video

Good content

Need more of that

[lucid jackal]

I was gonna do content like

"How to play rogue on the hard bosses"

But then uh

I still want to make a lura video cuz rogue is playable on lura so

[marble sail]

make a rogue raid guide and just be benched for all of voidspire

[lucid jackal]

Need to kill it 1st

[steel zinc]

Do 12.05 review

[steel zinc]

That would be nice

Much appreciated 👍

Your streaming your prog @lucid jackal ?

[lucid jackal]

Nop

I wanna do a very in depth breakdown of lura though

[steel zinc]

Please do. We are at bird

And I won't play until Lura 😂

So got time to prep

[marble sail]

but its more fun to prog last bosses while being absolutely clueless

[steel zinc]

Bruh

[native zodiac]

lura takes no prep anyways

press dance blades on cd

bring back dimensius

[lucid jackal]

So

Theres a bit more to the fight then "just do ur DPS"

[empty bobcat]

Urn not simming correctly right? it does not consider the stun. I know its not a good trinket, but its the only one I have and I use it on pulls in M+ since it does not stun you if a mob dies within 20s.

[lucid jackal]

Theres lots of small things you can optimize, mainly about decision making and defensive usage

[marble sail]

bub thats every boss

[lucid jackal]

No shit but some bosses your smarter decision making can matter more

[marble sail]

thats why we have feint, dont have to be smart

[dapper stirrup]

Do you think Blizzard will nerf Trickster before launch auf the patch?

[lucid jackal]

My money is on 0%

rogue is bad

a 5% buff isn't going to make rogue OP

[empty bobcat]

why do you think it gets a nerf? we need that buff

[lucid jackal]

when literally every good DPS spec is getting a buff this patch

UDK is getting a buff, Devourer is getting a buff

Theres no world a 5% rogue buff is "out of line"

[dapper stirrup]

with the the newest sim we go to 125k st in bis gear

[lucid jackal]

Who cares about sim DPS

[marble sail]

sim dps shows nothing

[dapper stirrup]

math nerds like me

[marble sail]

in reality

[empty bobcat]

devourer gets similar results

[lucid jackal]

Well if it makes u feel any better

UDK is getting a 4% buff on reset

So they are going to the moon

[dapper stirrup]

Oh ok, didnt know that.

[lucid jackal]

Devourer is also getting a buff

[brisk onyx]

and where are we

[marble sail]

devourer dosnt sim that great and its top 3 spec in the game lole

[lucid jackal]

0 world rogue gets a nerf

"doesn't sim great"

the sim in question:

[marble sail]

thats literally the pure st build noone plays btw

its sim bait

the annihilator is the one they run

on every boss

[lucid jackal]

goes against my narrative

[marble sail]

my point is sim dps is almost always irrelevant to see how good a spec is

[lucid jackal]

ofc

[empty bobcat]

idk I played devourer start of XP to check it out, did not like it and now back to sub

and I love it 🙂

[marble sail]

im devourer in raid and the playstyle is not for everyone

[empty bobcat]

I do 10s with my 280 mates at 250 and I can keep up

its super boring.... press one button press ulti repeat

[marble sail]

when u start to minmax the spec it does get fun, but just playing casually its boring sure

but i think thats how every spec is

[empty bobcat]

dont do mythic raids, in M+ I did not like it too

I am used to play melee anyway and dev is none of both, the small range sucks

[dry flame]

I had a friend who will sim his character constantly, all the time. But his keybinds were weird, so he'd often open chat and all the time type out his rotation to us.

Just a silly example of people worshiping Sims while ignoring fundamentals

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[empty bobcat]

think simming makes only sense to find the best gear setup for you

[dry flame]

That's what I use it for

[empty bobcat]

I usually sim trinkets a lot and gem setups

[tribal blade]

wait what

how is that even possible

oh

i just realized there are 8 ranged specs on top before you get to a melee

and it's STILL a hunter

so that doesn't count

[lucid jackal]

devourer is also getting buffed

[tribal blade]

that

is fucking bananas

i know i know archon.gg data etc etc

but still

i guess this is the argument that "new spec needs to be OP"

[lucid jackal]

Keep that in mind

[tribal blade]

which it is already

[lucid jackal]

and then ppl say things like

"Yeah idk, maybe this rogue buff is too much"

Like??

[tribal blade]

YUP

[chrome palm]

rogue got nerfed a bunch of times even recently without being a top performer

[lucid jackal]

just absolutely lost the plot

[blissful ivy]

5% of nothing is nothing

[lucid jackal]

when

[chrome palm]

sub 15% aoe nerf

when mm exists

[tribal blade]

the fact they tuned around M0s

was wild

so beyond crazy

[chrome palm]

or like the outlaw bf nerf

[lucid jackal]

that was an equalization of multiple specs

that were so much in the "I do no st, and inasne aoe"

[dry flame]

We were pretty crazy during prepatch, we should've gotten nerfed more

[alpine wraith]

kek

[chrome palm]

i just wouldnt count out a nerf just because there are better specs

personally

[alpine wraith]

i love doing keys with real specs and doing almost 50k less overall pog

[lucid jackal]

I think expecting a nerf is genuine victim complex akin to balance druids

[tribal blade]

i hope they let cloud ride

[empty bobcat]

why would they nerf us.... we are nowhere near the top and none of the top groups run rogues?

[tribal blade]

true and real

[alpine wraith]

well it would be paranoia if it didnt happen alot but also yea

expecting a nerf is kinda silly

[lucid jackal]

because people are genuine victims in here

[chrome palm]

why would they nerf blade flurry when outlaw is no where near top aoe?

and yet they did

[tribal blade]

i beat a devourer on the 2nd boss of seat 15 today

which was something

[alpine wraith]

what i love about blizz si they wanted to make outlaw do decent dmg on low target cleave

[tribal blade]

even when the healer let me die

[alpine wraith]

designed a talent

then nerfed it 4 times

then deleted it

[lucid jackal]

the changes outlaw got in the patch were a net buff. They probably could have let it ride with just a buff without readjustments

[tepid trellis]

Tbf they dont balance all that often for the top end

[lucid jackal]

But "nerfing the spec" and "nerfing an aspect of a spec, along side a buff" are two different things

[tribal blade]

that was pretty wild too, removing outlaw's niche

[alpine wraith]

what i found funnier is the 4 nerfs

then like

AAAAAAAAAA cba

[leaden prairie]

It's ok because we have other things we are good at

[alpine wraith]

yea like being fast sometimes

[tribal blade]

that's good to hear 🙂

[alpine wraith]

we can run faster after dying than other dps

[leaden prairie]

We do be kinda fast

[chrome palm]

my point is, if blizzard is so careful about tuning they need to necessitate a 4% st buff or whatever it is with an aoe nerf to compensate, it seems very odd that they would buff the spec by like 10+% a few weeks later

[leaden prairie]

I'm very quick

[dry flame]

Sorry, I'm at work and I'm half following the convo. Why is a nerf related to rogues being victims?

[chrome palm]

it seemed like they liked where outlaw aoe was

[lucid jackal]

Because this discord is OBSESSED with asking and expecting nerfs

EVERY Patch