subtlety

[shrewd lantern]

though

[vale pine]

i mean terrace is fine loot wise

[tidal solstice]

we slap in m+ ... what

[shrewd lantern]

we’re fine in damage

[tidal solstice]

only gonna get better tues

[vale pine]

cavers has too many bad rolls

[shrewd lantern]

we dont buff the good classes though

[vale pine]

nexus point i feel like has too many bad rolls

[tidal solstice]

I AM THE DANGER GOOD CLASS

[sullen hare]

Until a content creator comes out and says we blast we won't be getting invites regardless but we are getting buffed Tuesday

[shrewd lantern]

we had aoe blind in tww

[vale pine]

spire has too many loot pices

[shrewd lantern]

class was still a bad frost dk

lol

[vale pine]

AA is actually quite decent

[sullen hare]

And now we're a better fdk

[tidal solstice]

idgaf im a shadow ninja not some cringe emo edgelord

[shrewd lantern]

*cringe naruto fanboy

[vale pine]

pit kinda meh

seat very meh

and skyreach quite good

[shrewd lantern]

we’re fine in raid outside of the last 2 of voidspire

[tidal solstice]

we need cleave back for seat to be good. pulls are too small

[shrewd lantern]

aka the only bosses with mechanics in that raid

[vale pine]

so skyreach / aa is what i would say is decent to roll on

ofc only if you need most loot pieces

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah the system is entirely what you need

im just sending for xenas rings

then alleria

[tidal solstice]

for me i dont need anything from AA except maybe the ring. a mythic trinket buuuuut im using guidon so f that.

[sullen hare]

Shame blizzard intentionally nuked our 2-3t cleave smilers

[vale pine]

skyreach has:

• weapon
• shoulders
• back
• chest
• feet
• (trinket is okay, but not rly good)

[shrewd lantern]

sub is also just boring in keys

[vale pine]

but if you already have weapon and tier slots, not worth it

[shrewd lantern]

ss bp

is so braindead

[tidal solstice]

i love sub in keys. the simplified rotation leaves me the bandwidth to focus on the fights and using my utility

[sullen hare]

I'd like to give a shout-out to the void storm trinket which is an actually good quest based trinket for pretty much all of heroic raiding

[shrewd lantern]

2+ targets spamming bp means you can afk play the entire spec

[vale pine]

aa is:

• wrist
• hands
• finger
• trinket
• (bad) back

[tidal solstice]

alreayd have hands, ring, wrist, back.

so AA ill be avoiding

[vale pine]

ye

[wintry heart]

I’m stuck between sky and pit

[tidal solstice]

nexus got dagger, back, chest, hands, feet, rings x2
only thing i dont need there is back

and hands

shame the dag is vers though

[shrewd lantern]

im really just going for xenas rings

[vale pine]

nexus dagger has not great stats iirc

[warm marlin]

heroic

[vale pine]

let me quick look

[shrewd lantern]

otherwise prob better to spend on beloren

since his gear is 282

[tidal solstice]

my guild still prog m bel

[warm marlin]

if you desperate need a trinket you def send it on m beloren as outlaw loot spec

only 3 items in pool vs. 4 for chim

[shrewd lantern]

nah i dont

[tidal solstice]

our focus rn is cleaning chim and imp weekly for peoples vaults for trinkets.

[warm marlin]

ofc you prob arent gonna be reclearing belo at that point so

[shrewd lantern]

also techniqlly

[vale pine]

ye, nexus point dagger has vers

unsure i would specifically fish for that

[maiden oar]

are there trinket sims for .5 patch out

[shrewd lantern]

you have a 2/4 chance of getting a trinket from chim

just only 1 is good

[maiden oar]

curious if i should farm the skyreach trinket or stay a crucible gamer

[vale pine]

trinkets don't change

[maiden oar]

ah ok

[hallow mortar]

You send it in nexus till you get two rings

Easy

[shrewd lantern]

bring the rat alt to m chim

[tidal solstice]

im probably gonna just settle on having heroic trinkets and fill out the rest of my gear then use the vault + drops to get mythic trinkets

[shrewd lantern]

and loot it first vault

[maiden oar]

hes going to an alt run every week

he just hasnt hit yet

[tidal solstice]

cause each roll for a m gaze when i have a heroic already is 2 other mythic peices im not getting

[vale pine]

nexus has:

• Weapon (bad stats)
• back (bad stats)
• chest
• hands
• feet (bad stats)
• ring set

so 3 bad items

i would say

weapon ofc is mythic track then

[tidal solstice]

feet are getting catalyst

[vale pine]

oh true

you can cata feet

cata back is same stats so unlucky there

[tidal solstice]

you want to, crazy good stats

[vale pine]

ye

so feet is fine

[tidal solstice]

dagger is probably fine too. my sim oddly enough showed a slight gain of vers to be a dps gain

[vale pine]

having a slight amount of vers is fine

[brisk onyx]

Aren't you guys considering raids? m+ loot pools are so big

[tidal solstice]

takes two charges for raid bonus rolls

[vale pine]

well you get 2 pieces from m+

while you get only 1 from raid

[tidal solstice]

2 charges to upgrade a gaze from heroic to mythic. or two mythic peices upgraded frm heroic

[vale pine]

so you get more chances when rolling m+ loot

[brisk onyx]

how many token we take a week?

[tidal solstice]

2

[vale pine]

we get 2

[shrewd lantern]

im only doing xenas then raid

[brisk onyx]

[vale pine]

one roll in raid is 2 tokens tho

one in m+ is 1

so you can get either:

• 2 mythic+ items
• 1 raid item

[tidal solstice]

im not using mine on raid until rest of my slots are mythic. gonna rely on drops or vault for trinkets and use rolls for gear i still need

already have guidon+gaze at heroic

[shrewd lantern]

besides rings im only missing 4 slots

[vale pine]

it will come down to how much loot you have, how much you crafted already

[shrewd lantern]

so kinda w/e

split gamers are already 283

[brisk onyx]

ok, so it seems skyreach is pretty good

[vale pine]

you can:

• fish for one of the good trinkets (guidon/puzzle box)
• fish for your passive trinket (gaze or egg boss)
• fish for aleria neck
• fish for general upgrades if you have a lot of hero pieces

[shrewd lantern]

maybe not rogue since most of the better guilds

[brisk onyx]

how about saron?

[shrewd lantern]

arent dumping gear onto their rogues

[brisk onyx]

we should need cri/haste in 12.0.5

[vale pine]

ye

[tidal solstice]

yeh im still mostly hero, only 5 mythic peices. got a late start on rogue and didnt start mythic til this week. im gonna go for mythic in other slots and worry about trinkets later.

[brisk onyx]

and it have cri/haste amulet and ring

[fading saffron]

is it safe to recraft items now to crit/haste

[tidal solstice]

id wait til patch

[small sleet]

mastery is still good for m+ no? and everyone knows raid is the minigame so surely we dont have to change stats

[keen dome]

Wait for patch, wait for dust to settle, imo.

[fading saffron]

im assuming its the same haste value but then crit gains afterwards?

[tidal solstice]

haste = 700>crit>mastery

[fading saffron]

siiick

[tidal solstice]

i wouldnt sweat the crit to mastery toooo much. if youre doing a lot of keys, mastery is still good

[shrewd lantern]

rogue sucks in keys

[brisk onyx]

Based on my simc, stats requirements for m+ remain unchanged, while raids tend to have more crit

[shrewd lantern]

lmao

[vale pine]

pit has:

• dagger (crit/haste)
• neck (crit/haste)
• back (bad stats)
• bracers (bad stats tho can catalyse to crit/haste)
• belt (crit/haste)
• legs
• ring (crit/ haste)

[tidal solstice]

youre just a ray of sunshine graf

[vale pine]

its lovely how pit is all crit haste

crit/haste isn't too bad tbh

[rugged ravine]

stupid question -- if I crafted 2 x farstriders mercy -- can I wear both or just one?

[vale pine]

with crit as a higher priority for single target

[small sleet]

you can wear both

[shrewd lantern]

you can but wasting gilded on an offhand

yikes

[vale pine]

you don't want to craft a offhand

[small sleet]

yea i would say i wouldnt recommend doin it

[vale pine]

offhand slot is low impact

so only get a mainhand

[rugged ravine]

yeah I know. just wondering because Ive been stuck with a veteran offhand for a while now

[vale pine]

hmm

we upgrading trinket or weapon first

[tidal solstice]

im still rockin hero OH its really not a priority imo

[vale pine]

i guess weapon

[keen dome]

You can equip as many crafted items as you want. It's onyl the embellishment that restricts being able to equip them and it'll say "Unique-Equipped: Embellished (2)" on them.

Can only have two embellished items, infinite crafted items.

[keen dome]

I feel like MH -> trinket trinket -> OH?

[leaden thorn]

are you flasking crit or mastery in m+?

[small sleet]

mastery

[vale pine]

yep

probably

MH
then trinkets for m+ and raid
then offhand

[shrewd lantern]

conquest one

[vale pine]

there is a limit, you can only wear a total of 16 crafted items

[keen dome]

Hahaha, that's true

[leaden thorn]

did anyone try maxxing crit mastery for keys with enough haste for energy/combos instead of prio second tech in blades build?

[maiden oar]

wonder if once u upgrade a slot u can upgrade that slot infinitely

[vale pine]

(if it's not obviouse, there are 16 gear slots)

[maiden oar]

or if its like evil if u want to upgrade flag/pbox/gaze

and u need an extra week for the 2nd on use

[vale pine]

you don't rly need much haste for energy/cp

[leaden thorn]

estimate?

[vale pine]

but 700 or 800 haste seem like the sweet spot

you get flooded with cp/energy as is due to how things are designed

during cooldowns

[lusty acorn]

For new patch sub gonna above assa for buffs right?

[vale pine]

so haste is mostly for dance duration and secret cdr

[vale pine]

slightly yes

subtlety won't fly close to the sun tho

unsure about outlaw

it benefits even more from the new talent

[teal plaza]

Sub is gunna have insane burst windows with trickster now though, right

[vast scarab]

acording early calculation its 10% for outlaw

[raw frost]

I have the feather

[keen dome]

Nah, it's just a +10 ilevel to the item

[shrewd lantern]

sub rework when

[raw frost]

2 min cd 500 haste but its really meh,xd

[keen dome]

Monday

[lusty acorn]

Cool but we want class tunning for dps

I hope drop today

[raw frost]

Is the box brtter than the feather

[shrewd lantern]

atp im just playing to be token atro buff

spec is 0 fun

[vale pine]

sorry to bring you the message

but people don't work on the weekend typically

🙈

[teal plaza]

Me, at work right now

[lusty acorn]

Fuck

[vale pine]

so earliest we see chanegs is monday

[lusty acorn]

Monday or sunday

[tepid trellis]

im over this windchime now, this is boring af

[lusty acorn]

[vale pine]

you mean epic

[warm marlin]

i was promised it was still very fun

[lusty acorn]

So there one class tunning coming

[shrewd lantern]

who knows

[lusty acorn]

We hope

[brisk onyx]

who knows

[shrewd lantern]

spec still bad on paladins

unless they change nimble

[raw frost]

Will they buff sub after 12.0.5

[warm marlin]

unlikely

[vale pine]

think next tuning is estimated next month

[lusty acorn]

Everydungeon i am top 1 or 2

[vale pine]

but we will see

[lusty acorn]

It is good

But we need more

[raw frost]

Paladins have braindead aoe

[stable marlin]

I don’t imagine we will be good on paladins/crown for the rest of the patch since it’s our damage profile and being melee that make us so bad on those fights

[vale pine]

we don't even know how things turn out with 12.0.5

[raw frost]

And easy to play

[lusty acorn]

I think with new talent they will do one

[shrewd lantern]

who cares abouut dungeons

[lusty acorn]

Raid? is good

[raw frost]

Average

[vale pine]

ye, potentially

[shrewd lantern]

4/6

[vale pine]

it might be some hotfix changes

or maybe tuning

[raw frost]

Compared to the outliera like demo , dh mages

Sub is mid

In raid

[vale pine]

one of the already dominant classes/specs is getting a buff too apperently

sounds not great

mythic+ is also kind of not in the best spot balance wise

[warm marlin]

[stable marlin]

I don’t feel awful in M+ but the class perception is hurting more, I’m being removed from 10s before we start them as a 279ilvl with about 3k io so you know there should be no issues for a 10…

[brisk onyx]

devourer: hi

[small sleet]

the key is to be significantly higher io than the keys youre applying for require

[shrewd lantern]

i mean i feel good in pugs

[balmy gate]

demo/devourer best what u can pick for high m+

[shrewd lantern]

then i play with my mage and lock guildies who have hands on the keyboard:

[tidal solstice]

yeh its a stark difference. pugs will make you feel good. then you run with a cracked demo or frost mage who just pumps and ytou realize, hey maybe we need some buffs

[tulip silo]

Apply to 14s I shit you not, 10s is full of blind metahogs

[shrewd lantern]

going into pugs pretending the class is good

is like nba player playing in college basketball

ngl

[tidal solstice]

well y eh hence the 280ilvl and 3k score doing 10s

[small sleet]

i play with mage and lock too, but they play fire and destro so i stand a chance lmfao

[shrewd lantern]

i mean devourer unironically

plays like sub used to

kind of fun

not this braindead 2 spam rn

[lusty acorn]

I mean no one accept rogue 99% not accept 1% accept

[shrewd lantern]

i mean i dont play with pugs outside vault

im not trying to get chat banned

:)))

[brisk onyx]

The problem lies here: even for very ordinary keys,ppl prefers these specs, while rogue is in a miserable situation; some 12-15 keys don't even give rogue a second glance

[vale pine]

it surprisingly also has the shadow/void niche

hmm

[spice matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/aaronpaul-aaron-paul-cry-crying-gif-7621646

[tidal solstice]

tanks cryin about threat but wont invite a trickster lol

[vale pine]

and is ranged kind of

[shrewd lantern]

no good tank complains about threat

though

keyword: good

[vale pine]

if you jump in

and die

as e.g. a warrior

your fault

[warm marlin]

our homie on the 230 ilvl bear in a 12 yesterday was not happy with the threat

[shrewd lantern]

ret pallies are more guilty of that

imo

[vale pine]

haha, same thing

[shrewd lantern]

unless the warrior is a male orc....

then no expectations

[vale pine]

chargeee

[stable marlin]

I will start doing that honestly, going to level up my score a bit with some friends, pugging is just a weird place at the lower levels around 10-12s

[shrewd lantern]

10s are vault fill

just invite anyone over 280 with good raid prog

270 is full of rats

[maiden oar]

im not having a terrible time spamming 10-12 nexus point on my rogue alt who is kind of a rat

people seem to want to invite me for some reason

[raw frost]

i am 260

and i am doing 10s with my guild without any issues

and my dps in AOE is 10 % less than people 275 +

aoe is good ;d

[shrewd lantern]

its rdruids usually from my experience of spamming xenas

[raw frost]

and sT is good in dungeons as well

[shrewd lantern]

who dont have chest

[maiden oar]

my man like this (my main is dh this tier)

trying to ge tother ring hehe

[small sleet]

puzzle box

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1487881361506173028/puzzlebox.gif

[spare totem]

As of 12.0.5. Are our stat prio changing to crit/haste/mastery? or remaining the same?

[shrewd lantern]

im farming that one

[maiden oar]

am i gonna just not take the myth pbox from the vault or somethign

[spare totem]

Amen

[shrewd lantern]

and have the other

[maiden oar]

i kinda had to get it

[shrewd lantern]

puzzlebox is literally fine

[small sleet]

haha nah myth puzzle box isnt that bad

[vale pine]

haha ye

[small sleet]

its just annoying to use

[shrewd lantern]

besides its a 3min cd in raid

so is waiting a gcd on guidon

[vale pine]

i need to make a edit too for that trinket

[small sleet]

now that im in the habit of waiting on guidon i dont really notice it anymore

[somber sun]

the possibility of a second secret technique cast during a shadowblades buff is only possible with the set buff ?

[maiden oar]

glgl

[small sleet]

you could maybe do it during lust without 4 set? but in general yeah you need 4 set

[somber sun]

gotcha tyy

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i got the purple over 20 runs ago

[white siren]

hard being bench on paladins due to class being trash tier on all spec ....

[small sleet]

your guild is a bunch of goobers if they're benching rogue buff after the health nerf to that boss

the dps requirement to kill it is so low now

atrophic legit higher value for prog than someone doing more damage imo

[white siren]

guild still does not count atrophic poison as raid buff

[small sleet]

youre legally required to crash out on them now

[warm marlin]

based

[small sleet]

go full early 2000s nerd rage

[shrewd lantern]

it isnt

[knotty marten]

my guild didnt let me reroll evoker because they want atrophic
is it worth more than evoker util & buff? not sure if im just dumb and not realising how strong atrophic is

[swift tinsel]

When it’s good it’s good but when it’s not it’s useless

[knotty marten]

dracthyr_noted

[swift tinsel]

If a DR isn’t reducing damage then it’s quite bad

[keen dome]

Atrophic has issues applying to some fights. And in others you don't even need it and it doesn't help you kill the boss faster, too.

Which is why it often isn't seen as being as strong as, say, a crit buff or masterybuff or w/e.

If you are hitting enrage with the raid alive then Atrophic ain't gonna be a help.

[swift tinsel]

I would really really like a crit chance + crit dmg raid buff

[keen dome]

y e s. P l e a s e.

[small sleet]

i just want a better damage profile

[white siren]

yes, currently guild just saw top rogue doing as much dps as worst hunt .....

boss design with rogue is trash currently, 2-3 target being really low

[lilac stag]

Send them Tacktyks guide. States how important atrophic is on that fight.

[lucid jackal]

Rogue has like 2 bad bosses rn

[crystal temple]

I like to run numbing poison

[raw frost]

I have a question

[swift tinsel]

I’m pretty fuckin hype to get more burst

[raw frost]

the point is to have 2 SECTEC in 1 shadow blades right,m

[knotty marten]

my line of thinking was more uptime on movement abilities is better, since atrop wont save someone getting out of a oneshot ability in myth raid, but the movement might
not even mentioning the give everyone 1x free movement ability or fucking abduct someone against their will

[raw frost]

but if you are using guidon macro with shadow blades

you will always use 2x in 1 shadow blades

so its fine i guess xd

cause SECTEC CD becomes like 16 sec or 17

[small sleet]

you have less duration of shadow dance during your shadow blades if you do that though

[swift tinsel]

Outside of redoing haste for Sectech/dance more burst is my biggest wish

[knotty marten]

our healers dont seem to struggle, so atrop seems less valuable in that regard too
but what can i do raidlead says no

[small sleet]

because your first shadow dance wont get the increased duration

[raw frost]

it will get it

i use shadow dance after trink

so i always have the increased duration

[small sleet]

like you're hitting shadow blades + trinket 1 second before shadow dance?

[raw frost]

yes

or 0.5 sec xD

[white siren]

lightbond seems buggy sometimes i don't have increase duration

[raw frost]

shaodw dance is off Global CD s

[small sleet]

its not super optimal cuz you're losing one second of blades but its not the end of the world i guess

[raw frost]

so i use it instantly after trink

its less than 0.5 sec

and instantly SECTEC after that

[small sleet]

you kinda have to wait a full second

the less you wait the more likely you dont get the extension

ive had times where i clicked shadow dance .95 seconds after trinket and still didnt get the extension

[raw frost]

i have to try it XD when i get guidon 😄

i guess its not applied instantly or it's not recognized

with the feather i have now its working

[small sleet]

oh yeah idk if its the same with feather or not

[raw frost]

i mena i amfine losing 1 sec of shadow blades, i still do dmg in the mean time

just not optimal on 100 %

[white siren]

i press guidon 1 sec before blades + shadowblades so i tend to have the increase duration and I can use 2 Sectec into SB

[raw frost]

ye basically this is the most optimal i guess

losing1 sec of speed

but 100 % working for shadow dance

you can macro shaodw blades + shadow dance

and this way you dont lose shadow blades and SD duration

just 1 sec of haste

which is whatever

[tidal solstice]

i use my trinket key at the same time i press shadowstrike and it works for me

[raw frost]

ye it goes like for me at least , stealth > shadow strike + trink > shadowdance/shadow blades on macro > SECTEC

and the usual rotation

and you get the duration increase from the haste 100 % of the time

on dungeons with the it;'s like 12 sec +

which is a lot 😄

[swift tinsel]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[tidal solstice]

i pug too much to get enough value from TFD i feel. forced RP is really only on bosses which TFD is weak on if they arent melting fast

[small sleet]

i really feel like unless you have specific reasons you want the first dance, its never gonna outperform a point in finality in keys

[raw frost]

i have it on every pack

and itsa good xd

except the chain pulls

[small sleet]

you'll end up with a higher overall by chain pulling than you would with ending combat to get restealths

[raw frost]

i assuming you play without it

[small sleet]

yeah i stopped taking it a while ago in keys and i dont really regret it at all

[raw frost]

finality then

[small sleet]

i think the first dance is better in lower keys where the packs die faster

but the further up you go, it will naturally lose value since you spend longer without being able to get it back

[raw frost]

i am doing 10-12

i guess its better to drop it now cause ;d

on 12

i hardly go in stealth

i mean

out of combat*

[tidal solstice]

i stopped running it weeks ago and dont miss it

[small sleet]

even on 12's its probably still fine to run it. the difference is not large enough to split hairs over, so if you enjoy playing with that talent more you could stick with it and be totally fine

[raw frost]

what about weaponmaster

i guess finality is better overall xD

and not rng based

[small sleet]

weaponmaster isnt really good in keys, its a single target specific talent

[tidal solstice]

yeah but playing around TFD is such a hassle, for a tiny gain. id rather not.

[raw frost]

yes will go without it from now on, cause i too much think about it

in the keys 😄

its better to not

[tidal solstice]

finality 2/2+veiltouched.

[small sleet]

what are you dropping to get the second point of finality?

[raw frost]

ye

[dusky yacht]

Timed windrunner 14 I heard we getting buffed bros

[small sleet]

gz

[raw frost]

after thge patch

i guesss finality will be a lot better

due to the crit dmg

[small sleet]

hmm idk

[raw frost]

and i am curious too what he is dropping xD for 2/2

[dusky yacht]

That's not what the suggested talents say in the pins tho

ST

AoE

But I guess it could still change maybe?

[small sleet]

those suggested talents are for after the changes

[raw frost]

so he is not using potent powder

[dusky yacht]

.

[tidal solstice]

yup i just plop that point into finality instead of PP or rotten and then be lazy. unless im doing mythic raids, idgaf enough lol

[fleet acorn]

The talents just says the first dance cause the sim lets u get first dance between pulls

But in m+ Tanks dont care

[dusky yacht]

First Dance isn't in that talent tree after patch

[small sleet]

potent powder is a crazy strong talent imo

[fleet acorn]

Can u link

[dusky yacht]

I'm just taking that from Eleem's pin but he's typing so

[swift tinsel]

Dropping potent powder in keys sounds wild

[fleet acorn]

I’m not sure about the symbols talent

[hazy breach]

Doesnt really have anything to do with the patch really, its just that the alternatives to tfd is a lot better this season compared to previous so unless you feel like youre getting good value from it (or are actively playing around it), its probably better to play something else

[fleet acorn]

Haste still good

[swift tinsel]

PE for crit chance since crit go brrrr with cloud cover

[fleet acorn]

I see that explains it

[swift tinsel]

Like omega brrrr

[hazy breach]

Theyre about the same so you can play attack speed still if you want

But generally PE is better during blades and attack speed is better during non-blades

[warm marlin]

it be crit damage

[vale pine]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1035163024480276640/1495101632759730388/puzzle_box_1.gif

[small sleet]

LOL

[dusky yacht]

Another anti-puzzle box gif to add to my collection

[fleet acorn]

Ye hahaha nice trinket

[hazy breach]

Since they sim the same ive opted to recommend PE instead because generally burst is more desireable if the two alternatives are similar

[fleet acorn]

Still need to play it unless plume

[swift tinsel]

Burst dmg my beloved

[small sleet]

idk what sims say, but anecdotally from playing a bit of pe in keys here and there ive noticed it feels totally fine with shaman buff, but you seriously notice the missing attack speed if you dont have a shaman

[fleet acorn]

Can I already play it today or wait for patch

[hazy breach]

And im 99.99999999% certain both of those talent work as they should in sim as ive looked at it a lot

10% crit damage, aka 5% more damage on crits, aka ~2% more damage overall during dance

[vale pine]

patch

you can play pe today too, but it makes more sense with patch

[hazy breach]

Bis geared sim with now with 299 weapon has its max crit of shadowstrike at 259k btw

[small sleet]

[warm marlin]

this guy doesn't know the correct weapon ilvl!

[hazy breach]

(not including clone)

289+10 = 299 no?

[dusky yacht]

259k shadowstrike

[warm marlin]

its 298 iirc

from the pictures blizz sent

[vale pine]

correct

[fleet acorn]

U can only upgrade weapons and trinkets no ?

[warm marlin]

maybe im the cooked one

[vale pine]

yep

[dusky yacht]

Wasn't it +9 ilvl

[vale pine]

it is

[hazy breach]

The tooltip of the item says +10 i thought?

[keen dome]

an iLevel got lost

[fleet acorn]

Can I upgrade heroic or do I need to have mythic ones?

[warm marlin]

classic blizzard shenanigans

[hazy breach]

Maybe im cooked and its 298

Either way, strike hit hard

[keen dome]

that's comedy strike damage

[vale pine]

basically

[keen dome]

and i'm here for it

[swift tinsel]

Prio monsters

[vale pine]

its 298 / 294

[warm marlin]

im certain you looked at it but any idea why apex optimization didnt come back

[vale pine]

because the +ilevel stuff is tracks and tracks are weird

[warm marlin]

would think the giga strikes meant its revival

[vale pine]

(due to squish)

[warm marlin]

since the crit damage thing is basically what was happening on beta sims with the clone bug

[swift tinsel]

Maybe only apex optimization in blades?

[fleet acorn]

So we can upgrade the vers mastery dagger insta? Or do I need the crit mastery dagger then ?

[hazy breach]

Not sure, but i didnt find it being worth. The non-rotten strikes dont hit as hard

But yeah i agree it should probably be good

[shrewd lantern]

time to stack versa for bigger shadowstrikes

[swift tinsel]

Wouldn’t rotten strikes always be used for the apex?

[vale pine]

you basically:

• Mainhand weapon
• Trinkers
• Offhand weapons
  in that order

[swift tinsel]

Since it was being forced on sc finishers

[vale pine]

*trinkets

sorry for typo

[warm marlin]

i can surely use the voidcore upgrade on my renown trinket right guys

[swift tinsel]

Hehehe

Unless you got a hero track one

[vale pine]

thats champion track

so bad luck

[hazy breach]

Just gotta hack into the mainframe and upgrade it to hero track

[vale pine]

the upgrade only works on fully upgraded hero/myth

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/mega64-hacking-in-progress-hacker-hacked-hd-gif-16542434

[dusky yacht]

We gotsa upgrade those trinkers

[vale pine]

probably will do that

after weapon

we throw the box into the upgrade track

[dusky yacht]

Gonna feel so good to instant upgrade weap as soon as it's possible

[vale pine]

(unless i get guidon or a good passive)

[dusky yacht]

And then my next one is myth guidon too

I'm cooking

Unless I get myth gaze

It's okay to dream

[swift tinsel]

We managed to not kill Imperator so hoping for myth dagger from m+ vault

Dispels are hard ig

[dusky yacht]

I missed one raid where they killed imperator and I had forgotten about the debuff I was like "uhh guys wtf do I do with this I forgot" and they told me calmly to run to them and I got instant dispel, on time, and we killed

W guildies

[swift tinsel]

We had two healers just not able to see the debuff on frames

And even with calling out who to dispel it was rough

[obsidian crag]

what is up? we dropping box next patch? why?

[candid pebble]

life is wonder
and my wonder is how am i getting outdamaged in AOE

[obsidian crag]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bronze turret]

31 sec fight and you did 115k, low gear, no cds or no skill? Or all of the above at the same time?

[candid pebble]

i think it was only SD , idk if i should start enchanting my gear

[spare totem]

for the changes to sub next week what will our stat prio be?

[fleet acorn]

Is sub or outlaw better for keys then

[vale pine]

i want to

but i don't have a better repacement

[small sleet]

sub is realistically the worst of the 3 specs for keys, and it will stay that way after the buffs

[vale pine]

its just annoying to use

we play the same trinkets as before patch

so nothing changes

[bronze turret]

Yea ok, so what’s ur point with the screen? If you pop blades and every cd on a large pull you should do like 250k+

[hazy breach]

Not having an enchant on your crafted weapon is devious work

[spare totem]

Really? how come?

[bronze turret]

Dooming

That’s why

Sub is fine in keys

Works, does the trick

[tidal solstice]

youll do better with a spec you enjoy playing.

[lucid jackal]

Sub is going to be a lot better post patch

[small sleet]

we have an undesirable damage profile compared to the others basically

[bronze turret]

Why

[swift tinsel]

We’re gaining a huge burst buff

[tidal solstice]

because blizz is shit with balance

[warm marlin]

the famed outlaw damage profile of exactly 8 target damage

[chrome palm]

Rogue brings only damage

[bronze turret]

sub do like full st dmg while taking aoe talents

[hazy breach]

Killing spree famous for doing huge prio damage

[chrome palm]

If other classes can bring similar damage and other tools you’d bring them instead

[bronze turret]

What’s so bad about the “profile”

[small sleet]

we arent good at doing prio damage right now, so unless someone else in the party can carry the prio damage, you end up with the healthiest mob living the pull and then you have to single target it down

[hazy breach]

Subs isnt bad, assas is good

[candid pebble]

getting outdamaged by a tank is kinda weird , like am i the problem or is the class ?

[bronze turret]

Oh no, funnel speak

[small sleet]

this, sub is totally fine in keys, but the others are just better is all i mean

[warm marlin]

if that's the case then press more st buttons to even it out

[hazy breach]

The others = assa

[chrome palm]

Strikemaxxing should be better at least

[bronze turret]

It was a low duration aoe fiesta and you had no cds and he probably used every cd

[swift tinsel]

Nuclear bomb strikes in cloud cover certainly nudge prio damage a bit

[lucid jackal]

Assa is getting no buffs while sub is gaining a fairly large buff

[warm marlin]

ye strikemaxxing gonna be good

[grim wasp]

is raidbots correct for crucible of erractic energies? Is algater box better?

[bronze turret]

What buff?

[chrome palm]

You know I was hoping with strike being removed from nimble we would see funnel back

[lucid jackal]

Cloud cover

[chrome palm]

And then they make >75% of cp come from non builder sources

[small sleet]

yeah it's just hard to tell if the buff is gonna bring it to assa's level in keys right now. quite a few good rogues are pushing high keys as assa, but there's no good sub rogues pushing high keys so the upper limits feel really hard to judge

[keen dome]

It's gonna be good burstin'

[lucid jackal]

How much better do u think sin is in keys rn?

[bronze turret]

The pin is weirdly written

[lucid jackal]

New hero talent is a 6% dps buff and a 20% burst damage buff

[bronze turret]

Like there’s a missing paragraph

[bronze turret]

On st?

[lucid jackal]

Yes

[bronze turret]

Wtf

[lucid jackal]

Lol

[bronze turret]

It looks so innocent

[vale pine]

basically, our burst during blades gets higher

[small sleet]

i mean im just comparing overalls in dungeons, which obviously doesnt tell the whole story, but its all i really have to go off of

[vale pine]

but outside it isn't

[keen dome]

The best part of Sub becomes STRONK

[vale pine]

because the talent is increasing damage only during blades

[bronze turret]

Who cares about outside of blades

[lucid jackal]

Well I'm asking how much better do you perceive sin as being compared to sub?

[bronze turret]

But what do you lose for taking cloud cover and is that talent 0% dps

[swift tinsel]

10% finishers crit chance

[hazy breach]

The +6% is accounting for losing the 10% crit damage

[bronze turret]

Ah ok

You should rewrite the pin btw

It doesn’t say anything rn

[hazy breach]

What

[bronze turret]

Unless I am looking at something else

[keen dome]

Are you looking at the right pin? it makes sense to me

[hazy breach]

You need to press it

[lucid jackal]

If Ur on mobile u need to click on the pin

[hazy breach]

To see all of it

[bronze turret]

Questionmark

[tidal solstice]

10% crit chance for finishers vs fazed targets

is what you lose

[hazy breach]

Yeah theres 7 more paragraphs

[bronze turret]

Gotcha, what a nice app

[keen dome]

Discord loves sowing discord.

[exotic steeple]

feet?

[fair phoenix]

the raidbots can sim with the new changes?

i wanna see new biss geear

so i can recraft before reset

xd

[bronze turret]

Here’s a tip for the future. Write a summary in the first 5-6 sentences and then deep dive later.

[hazy breach]

Literally the same as before

[tidal marsh]

Can we get a new pin that includes the screenshots of the previous pin

and maybe a couple red circles

Otherwise it's all Chinese to me

ngl

[bronze turret]

Mumbo jumbo

I love more burst tho, that’s cool.

Thanks blizzard

[exotic steeple]

are we looking that good ???

[vale pine]

but 12.0.5 tl;dr is

• roughly 6% buff overall from cloud cover (st and aoe)
• Deathstalker gets a button to move Mark to a new target
• Trickster drops premediation, takes rotten on st and stats are slightly more in favor of crit.
• You can upgrade weapons/trinkets to 298.
• Bonus rolls are back, you get 2 per week. Can either use for 2 mythic+ or 1 raid loot piece (costs 2)

[warm marlin]

youve deluded me into thinking the interactions are intended btw

[tidal solstice]

its a pretty big buff im excited to see where it puts us. hopefully top 10 at least.

[warm marlin]

i will be upset with you if they get changed

[bronze turret]

Do we drop premed because it’s bugged?

[lucid jackal]

They might change it in a 12.1 type patch

[vale pine]

yes

[lucid jackal]

No way they hotfix Nerf it

[bronze turret]

Do we already drop premed?

[lucid jackal]

Or even random patch Nerf it

[tidal solstice]

the opener is so damn cursed though.

[vale pine]

nope

[tidal solstice]

id rather keep premed lol

[vale pine]

cloud cover makes strike damage more relevant

[bronze turret]

I fucking hate premed

[exotic steeple]

how would it look?

[bronze turret]

Always have

[vale pine]

as all fazed perks basiclaly stack up to 3x benefits

[hazy breach]

backstab until 7

[lucid jackal]

You just press backstab to build to max

[hazy breach]

Like the pin says

[lucid jackal]

Ppl are a li'l dramatic imo

[exotic steeple]

wth

[chrome palm]

The opener is nasty work but premed is kinda a mess

[bronze turret]

Wait so you backstab.. to 7 in opener?

[vale pine]

means losing aa procs from premed is no bueno, so we drop it

yes

[bronze turret]

Without snd active

[lucid jackal]

Yes

[warm marlin]

nah it can be pretty bad

depending on your sht procs

[vale pine]

strike-backstab to 7

[lucid jackal]

Just proc?

[bronze turret]

What a mess

Why is this a thing

[exotic steeple]

6 seconds of ss and backstab

[tidal solstice]

vs 1 SS with premed....

[vale pine]

blizz could just rework premed

[tidal solstice]

no thanks.

[vale pine]

to e.g. give sht stacks

[bronze turret]

Isn’t it better to just strike from opener, vanish + strike

[chrome palm]

Is there a reason not to vanish strike in opener

[vale pine]

you want to vanish later so ye

[hazy breach]

Cloud cover makes strike hit hard

[warm marlin]

vanish giga burst in blades blud

[bronze turret]

“Giga burst”

[chrome palm]

Oh the 25% strike in stealth?

[bronze turret]

Can’t believe it

[hazy breach]

No

Just a strike inbetween dances

[chrome palm]

Ah

[crystal temple]

what's the bug with premed?

[jovial widget]

Is it a bug that I cannot see Find Weakness in the CDM? We have all buffs, even extremely niche - except for Find Weakness

[chrome palm]

3 minute vanish holy

[vale pine]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[crystal temple]

thank u

[bronze turret]

It eats the new talent

[zenith mirage]

fix premed bug and we gucci.

[bronze turret]

Hate it

[hazy breach]

FW has 100% uptime

[zenith mirage]

whats the premed vs no premed diff anyway?

[fair phoenix]

how iis the sims with 1:30 trinket or puzzle

[hazy breach]

So tracking it is irrelevant

[vale pine]

wait till you find out

[zenith mirage]

%wise

[fair phoenix]

!fuu

[vale pine]

that there is no cloud cover in the cdm

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

[bronze turret]

Blizzard and their own addons

Literal dogshit

[hazy breach]

About 1%

[chrome palm]

At least you should be able to track it kinda easily

[bronze turret]

Hate that they removed buff tracker from damage meters. Literally my fav tab

[warm marlin]

yea you will not need an addon to track cloud cover

it is quite obvious

[vale pine]

it can be a bit odd to play around

[warm marlin]

the big stink cloud

[vale pine]

because you want to dip into the smoke bomb

before it expires

so need to plan 10 sec ahead

[bronze turret]

It lingering for 10 seconds after leaving makes it irrelevant to track

[chrome palm]

Hopefully not an issue in big keys

[swift tinsel]

Can’t you effectively just look at blades buff in s1

[chrome palm]

But I can see it being annoying in low keys

[keen dome]

Just pop blades and you know you've got it for 10s+10s

[bronze turret]

10 seconds is a long ass time

[swift tinsel]

Since its 20 sec

[zenith mirage]

not sure if delaying blades+first sectech is worth 1% ngl

[keen dome]

ye it lasts the length of blades

[vale pine]

i mean its rly just

use baldes

dip into smoke bomb again shortly before it vanishes

[bronze turret]

Just don’t use blades like an absolute idiot and you should be fine

[swift tinsel]

It would be nice to see in case you have to run out and get back in before the buff expires on you

[vale pine]

or stand in it whole duration

[keen dome]

it could be annoying on some pulls like Algeth but also who cares

[vale pine]

but i can already see the problems in my raid

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[vale pine]

where tanks never keep the boss local

[swift tinsel]

Yeppers

[sharp lake]

Is this real should I have been doing this the whole time

[vale pine]

but move them like they gain money per miles

[bronze turret]

I mean just wait until he has planted

[swift tinsel]

Think you’re planting then suddenly the tank gets the zoomies

[warm marlin]

no premed is still good until next reset

[bronze turret]

Losing the buff because you’re trigger happy is just stupid

[sharp lake]

oof

[bronze turret]

And ye you can prob sprint + step in worst case scenario

[warm marlin]

it just simmed as a gain for me to drop it already for beloren style burst so i got a sneak peek at the no premed opener

[bronze turret]

Prob not worth leaving the boss mid blades regardless

[small sleet]

sorry i got distracted for a second, i think id say assa is >10% better than sub in keys right now. sub feels quite alright to play, but the only place where i feel like it really exceeds over assa is single target fights. but like i said, no one is really pushing the limits of sub it feels like, whereas some really good names have high key logs of assa to compare to, so it could be closer than it feels and im just delulu

[bronze turret]

Are you a master of both specs

[vale pine]

wasn't there a tool to visualize raid movement on wcl

[swift tinsel]

Yeah there’s heat maps

[small sleet]

no of course not, i didnt claim to be

[vale pine]

would be interessting to see how much people actually move

[bronze turret]

Are you better at sub?

Or assa

[small sleet]

yeah im terrible at assa

[swift tinsel]

And you can watch the little icon replay

[bronze turret]

Then there’s literally no point playing it

[drifting ether]

Zz I gotta relearn my cooldown usage for raids

[bronze turret]

Sub is so fucking dumb simple rn that a monkey could do it

[small sleet]

i dont play it, but when someone asks which spec is better, why would i try to tell them sub is better if i dont think it is?

[warm marlin]

like genuinely if you are finding yourself consistently having a big prio mob living forever you have the option to shift your damage more to prio

do the apex optimization with strike, but cast bp. is a big prio gain

or just full st the mob if the slop adds gonna die anyway

[bronze turret]

Because for 95% of people familiarity is more important than minor spec differences

[warm marlin]

ofc assa does a better job at prio.. but your st is a lot better especially next week

[small sleet]

ya thats what i said

[small sleet]

yeah but its not like he came in here saying "im a sub main, should i swap to assa or outlaw" he just asked if sub or outlaw was better

[bronze turret]

And the answer to that kind of question is “whatever you’re the best at”

Because if you ask that question you’re probably quite new to the game

[warm marlin]

I really dont think outlaw is better unless you're routing for it

[chrome palm]

Outlaw is better in the long run bingus

[bronze turret]

We hate outlaw

Silence

Peasant

[vale pine]

people still struggle

[chrome palm]

If you push title you may become mentally exhausted from high keys

[bronze turret]

Change color

[swift tinsel]

Gun kata ass spec

[warm marlin]

this the real gain fr

[chrome palm]

Outlaw stimulates the brain more than sub so it becomes the better push spec

[swift tinsel]

Wouldn’t that make it even more mentally exhausting

[bronze turret]

I remember watching jpc try to play outlaw, his forehead full of sweat, doing 40% less dmg than the 2nd

#worth

[warm marlin]

I just think its funny every tier people get baited seeing zac as the number 1 io rogue

[chrome palm]

The pikaboo clip of him trying outlaw 😭

[bronze turret]

Outlaw Zac?

[warm marlin]

ye

[bronze turret]

Aren’t the Chinese ahead

On rio

[warm marlin]

idk sometimes

[hazy breach]

Think theyve dropped rogue now

[bronze turret]

Ah ofc

[swift tinsel]

Idk if they have any rogues above Wox/zac atm

[bronze turret]

I only pug these days and people don’t even use shroud anymore

Might as well not exist as a skill

[swift tinsel]

They were all ddh/aug/uhdk-demo last I looked

[chrome palm]

When you press shroud

Everyone instantly hits burning rush, fel rush, etc

[steady timber]

Before a raid boss pull

[chrome palm]

And walks on top of mobs

[bronze turret]

Pugs can’t use it, they lose their brains

[chrome palm]

Shroud has been useless for so long the pugs never learned how to not break stealth

[bronze turret]

As a rogue you have perfect knowledge about every stealth seeing mob

These idiots don’t even know what it is

[swift tinsel]

Can other people see truesight eyes when they’re shrouded?

[chrome palm]

Chance of a dh player turning turning off immo aura in shroud = 0

[swift tinsel]

Idk the last time I was in someone else’s shroud lmao

[bronze turret]

I hope so

[warm marlin]

havoc cannot cancelaura it

idk if veng can

[swift tinsel]

I don’t think so

[warm marlin]

gotta wait it out

[swift tinsel]

And it can auto-proc itself lmao

When it runs out

[vocal rock]

Only once this season so far I had tank ask me to use shroud. It was AA.

[warm marlin]

ye ppl remember that one because people actually played rogue in df1

[vocal rock]

Lol

[swift tinsel]

I get the classic DPS Walks Over a Mob in Shroud and pulls most times

[vocal rock]

Actually that reminds me the tank was like ok everyone mount up for shroud, and I realized I’d never mounted up with shroud before and was nervous I didn’t know if it would cancel it or not. So i just hit sprint instead

[swift tinsel]

Wait with no premed does this mean shroud speedy boots is back on the table

[warm marlin]

this also gets me because you're faster without a mount in speed shroud

[swift tinsel]

Or is that one gate down Idr

[vagrant fossil]

Nope

[hazy breach]

No

You cannot pick it as its behind premed

[swift tinsel]

Boo

Ah that’s right

[hazy breach]

But you do get +8% healing taken or better shadowstep

Which is neat

[swift tinsel]

Haven’t looked at that side of the tree since prepatch lol

[warm marlin]

better shadowstep goes so hard this tier

[swift tinsel]

Ye I’m cool with the extra defensive value

[vale pine]

healing increase is rly good too

[warm marlin]

ephemeral good but on like chim, alleria, even NK step talent so nice

[vale pine]

true

[tidal solstice]

im not good with the damn jank opener. they need to fix premed bug ffs blizz

[ember sonnet]

GUys just 1 question, i have actually Puzzlebox & light company guidon better use this 2 trinkets or shoud i change puzllebox to solarflare prism?

[hazy breach]

Theres no bug

It works like intended

Which is the problem

[tidal solstice]

its intended that a talent invalidate other talents?

[open vortex]

Can other people see cloud cover in raid?

[vale pine]

good question, i have never checked that

[open vortex]

God I hope they can

[fair phoenix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rancid sierra]

Hey guys - I know we typically want about 20% haste - I got the Guidon trinket last night and I am trying to craft a ring - its a huge upgrade for me. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3SrQwD7KgN7RgY4F6zCxGQ - It's telling me making a crit/mastery ring is like 500 dps better than haste/mastery - If I make crit mastery ring I lose 126 haste and go below 18% - Is it not mattering because the guidon trinket is covering the needed haste? Thank you very much

Haste/Maste ring sim - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/muFSpdRbbQrCrA3RnEccWU

[warm marlin]

what would be your exact haste rating with the crit mast ring

with oils and flask on

[rancid sierra]

Let me look rn

I'm not amazing at sims to know

[vale pine]

you want 700 haste with flask/oils

everything above is overkull with guidon

[rancid sierra]

How can I see what my stats would be?

Can I from the sim?

or a math thing?

[lusty acorn]

For crest who will upgrade any item 298 should i power my weapon or trinket?

[warm marlin]

you can see from the sim in the html report if its not a large sim

[rancid sierra]

Ok

[lusty acorn]

I have one myth 289 and 285

[warm marlin]

i more meant just take whatever haste you have now while full buffed and subtract the ring you would replace (omission of light)

if its like 680+ its good to make crit mast ring

% doesnt matter

[warm marlin]

weapon

idk how many we get but trinket after mainhand upgrade, prefer upgrading non guidon first

[rancid sierra]

Minus 126 from omission of light -= 552 haste + weapon oil = 568 + haste flask = 720~ish?

[warm marlin]

more than enough

[unkempt walrus]

is there a way to sim the 12.0.5 talents to see how much crit we need to be getting?

[rancid sierra]

thank you @warm marlin

[warm marlin]

theres a chance that you'd get a better result with a haste mast ring and swapping to a different flask but those are the joys of a haste cap

[rancid sierra]

hmm, i should test that

good idea

[hearty mural]

are we aiming to hit haste cap ? or what is the preferred range

[high star]

wowhead says 18 percent

[keen dome]

684 without oils is a comfy level to hit.

[hearty mural]

ok ty

[fair phoenix]

outlaw will do more dmg then sub next week?

someone said 15% buff for outlaw

[hearty mural]

whats the % buff for assas or sub?

[halcyon roost]

For assa its 0

Right?

Dont think im getting anything

Someone said 7% for sub

[fair phoenix]

for assa is the same

sub is 6

outlaw 15

[ember hull]

on the two dragons mythic yall using shuriken storm to build right?

[sharp peak]

definitely not 15

more like 10

[raw frost]

10-12 max

[ornate lake]

Gamers is there a way i can merge the damage between shadow and physical damage components. I remember it was merged automatically before. On the archon logs it's merged automatically

[lilac stag]

We don’t use percents. We use raw stat value.

[halcyon roost]

Zac said 15

[raw frost]

who is zac 😄

[hazy breach]

French guy

[halcyon roost]

Outlaw guy

And assa got 1% buff on its buff patch

Cool blizzard

[raw frost]

he is most likely over hyping the buff 😄

[lucid jackal]

Outlaw is getting anywhere from a 13-16% buff

That's just the reality

[fluid lintel]

This is an odd question

Do yall hide ur stealth bar?

[alpine wraith]

yea outlaw is the biggest winner

but sub wins in our hearts

also BURST BURST BUSRT

[frail kindle]

yea but u have to play trickster outlaw

[alpine wraith]

yea at least it is not old killing spree

kekw

[frail kindle]

old ks at least had aura

[shadow lance]

Yes, dead aura

[olive canyon]

with cloud cover - once you get to 3stacks, do the stacks refresh for the duration of the cloud cover buff, in esence meaning cloud cover/fazedx3 will be up for 20s

[somber sun]

is it fine to use double crafted daggers ( simbot shows a major dps increase when replace offhand dagger )? This only happens when I use a high attack speed off hand 1.80 and 2.60, cause otherwise it doesn't show that possible upgrade with 1.80 on both weapon

[hazy breach]

Yes, and even longer

[shadow lance]

Don't use slow weapon

[hazy breach]

Because it only gets reduced down to 1 if you apply a new fazed

[somber sun]

should I just keep that low level bis wep on off hand ?

[hazy breach]

Using a nondagger in offhand loses you about 10% of your energy and combo points

[lucid jackal]

Double crafted dagger is terrible

[shadow lance]

Yes

[somber sun]

285 263

[olive canyon]

how fast did you get to 3 stacks upon hitting blades?

[somber sun]

alright

[hazy breach]

Takes like 0.5 seconds or something

[lusty acorn]

The buff only for shadow blades?

[hazy breach]

Since every auto attack procs it

[olive canyon]

and i noted their was no rotational changes in the pin - so it isnt worth entering dance at low cp, hitting a builder then sectec? to have the 3x fazed guaranteed?

[hazy breach]

Youll be 3x stacks anyway before clones hit

Because sectech applies 2 stacks

And you will have one stack already

[shrewd lantern]

sometimes i wonder

if any other classes experience people asking about such dated mechanics

like weapon speed

on the regular

[frail kindle]

yo wait a minute HUGE tauren rogue stonks in 12.05

[shrewd lantern]

tauren is the same as dwarf though?

[frail kindle]

small and weak dwarf vs big and strong cow

[rancid sierra]

Whats difference? they both show 1%?

[frail kindle]

obvious answer

[frail kindle]

drip + aura

cant be broke dog

[shadow lance]

one is 0,75 and other is 1,25

[alpine wraith]

one is 0.75 the other 1.25

crit dmg

[rancid sierra]

Oh, sick ,thanks!!

[shrewd lantern]

asking blizz to think things through:

[lucid jackal]

Fury and survival rn

[ember hull]

bump

[lucid jackal]

Like fury can't use 1handers

Survival can use 2handers and daggers, and I think dagger build overall is best

Frost dk also has dual wield and 2hander builds

[iron whale]

are you guys genuinely enjoying sub in m+?

or delve content?

[keen dome]

Yeah, I'm enjoying Sub in most content.

[fair phoenix]

u will play sub or out

next week

[lucid jackal]

Uhh next week probably sub just cuz I still don't have a 1hander

But I want to play outlaw asap

[small sleet]

Shuriken storm outside of dance on two target, shadow strike inside of dance

[ember hull]

ty

[fair phoenix]

i dont have too

i have a mythic daggeer

[bright briar]

i just started playing sub but im familiar with some things

[stoic anchor]

how much better is trickster in m+ than deathstalker?:D i'm ~3.4k rio

i gave deathstalker a go and it wasn't half bad. plus -3s to shadowstep enables the mlg plays which let's be ones, this is the sub discord, we all play for the clips and mlg glory

[alpine wraith]

quite a bit worse next week

[tepid raven]

It's a lot worse aoe

[alpine wraith]

rn it is kinda fine

you will do a bit less overall but more prio kinda

[stoic anchor]

yeah felt like that too

7s cloak tho -3s shadowstep it's doing things to me!

[vale pine]

cloud cover makes the coversation fairly one sided

without, we would look into playing deathstalker on any pure single target fight

[shadow lance]

Playing DS in M+ is kinda like masochism

[stoic anchor]

yea

[stoic anchor]

hello, it is I. your liege

[vale pine]

mark is rly the only problem, the gameplay outside isn't too bad

[shadow lance]

Funny, Liege is the city I live

[shadow lance]

Yes, that's the whole point

[stoic anchor]

ah , nice haha:D

[vale pine]

if you ask me personally

i miss the old nimble flurry

i did like the nuance of only using aoe spells on certain target sizes and having the option to decide between priority damage and aoe while not losing too much

[shadow lance]

100% agree with you

Kinda miss the great cleaving

[plush roost]

Make goremaws cleave!!!

[keen dome]

😨

[warm marlin]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[teal plaza]

True, we certainly don't play for the gameplay

[vale pine]

or replace it with something else

🙈

[stoic anchor]

goremaw shouldn't cost energy. and buff the attacks by like 10-15% to be viable

like in vanilla wow. innervate costed mana. costs mana to give mana xd. outdated design

[vale pine]

I think its not interessting

subtlety has other key spells

secret trechnique, shadow dance

i don't think it needs another additional one