subtlety

[keen dome]

No premed is the worst part

[tribal blade]

was thinking about just playing premed

but losing 1 strike apex every dance

oh wait no

only 2 during blades

solo dances don't matter

wonder what the % diff of running premed vs no premed is

[keen dome]

I would be curious to know and i imagine we shall know soon

[short radish]

i do not want to lose premed

[tribal blade]

i can imagine people will just run premed if it's that annoying

but it only really affects the opener

not running premed

[potent summit]

Is it a bug tho or does blizz want that Interaction with premade and apex?

Premed*

[tribal blade]

pretty sure it's a bug

premed has a few bugs going on

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[verbal kelp]

Sorry to be that guy, but does the trickster changes make outlaw/sub competitive in higher m+? I’m playing assa on 17+ right now

[keen dome]

I assume it'll make Sub a lot more competitive in higher M+, esp in very big pulls

[tribal blade]

maybe it's not a bug, don't see it on the list

[keen dome]

Since we're gaining a ton more damage and our burst profile back(ish)

[tribal blade]

+6% is pretty substantial

[keen dome]

From Eleems pin:

[tribal blade]

and we gain burst niche back

so maybe

but sin has a much more ethical dmg profile

so hard to say

[keen dome]

Yeah

[verbal kelp]

Yeah, I’ve been enjoying sin a lot on high keys

Insane overall and great prio dmg

[tribal blade]

no matter what sub will be better in keys

[keen dome]

prio dmg my beloved...

[tribal blade]

just don't know if it'll overtake sin

[wraith sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-spongebob-nuke-explosion-nuked-gif-25849222

[grim wasp]

To pad meters sub still better?

[wraith sphinx]

we're so back

[keen dome]

It'll be enough to let me push to 3.4k without feeling I'm being mean playing Sub.

[potent summit]

Playing 18 at the Moment with 3610 rio and it might still not be enough. I mean you can argue if with the rotten you have enough prio dmg

[tribal blade]

lol nah you can use any spec to do that 😉

[keen dome]

Well, yeah, but see the latter part

feeling i'm being mean!

[tribal blade]

rotten won't add prio dmg unless you only strike with rotten up

[potent summit]

That is the plan

[tribal blade]

which could be a play for more prio

[potent summit]

When I Talk about that

[copper ravine]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

it feels kinda bad striking in aoe over storm

unless you're proccing apex

[potent summit]

Yes it is. But it has to be done in high keys if I want to Play sub

[keen dome]

I'm going to ask a dumb question I should know the answer too but does pulling a boss in a raid reset our combies

Because I have a plan on how to get around the premed change in the opener

[tribal blade]

uhh yes i think so

same with starting a key

[keen dome]

Damn

So we can't pre-game combies

[tribal blade]

because whenever i want to get snd up before a key starts with a turnip you have to snd before the dome ends

or else you lose the CP

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

i can forsee this being an issue if delaying cds on pull causes a cascading effect on the entire fight

[keen dome]

Yeah

Curious to see how it works out

[tribal blade]

but most bosses you lust on pull

so should work out

[keen dome]

Is there any you don't this tier / M+..

Alleria?

I guess

[tribal blade]

actually there's a bunch of raid bosses you don't lust on pull haha

nvm

[keen dome]

Alleria and uh.. Baloren and Lura?

[tribal blade]

yeah those for sure

[keen dome]

I can't think of any M+ bosses at my key level (14ish) though

Oh I guess, lmao

Lura again

[tribal blade]

i think it should be fine for M+ bosses because you'll have snd rolling

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

also you can sit on CP leftover from previous pulls

we now have a reason to not cast snd between pulls in keys

i'm 3 points off 3400 now

timed 17 caverns today

[misty tinsel]

Is there any bug on log for sub please ?

[tribal blade]

not bad for casually pushing

[tribal blade]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[misty tinsel]

tyvm

[hollow spear]

What's more likely? That they nerf the cloud because they didn't think through what the impact is going to be or that they fix premed?

[tribal blade]

if they nerf cloud cover i'm legitimately gonna be depressed

and probably lose all faith in the devs

[chrome palm]

low key

wouldnt be surprised if they do something extremely cringe

like remove the stacking DR

and the crit

hope not

[short radish]

you still have faith in them?

[tribal blade]

a tiny bit maybe

[tribal blade]

i could see this happening too ngl

[short radish]

normally I joke when i say stuff like this but i acutally have 0 faith in devs, at least in regards to rogue

even if this does turn out to be good

[tribal blade]

lol based

[short radish]

the main problems of rogue still exist

okay sure we get our burst niche back

[vale pine]

you completel dismiss sht

[short radish]

but it's not like we're unique in "burst damage"

[tribal blade]

we do get the bandaid fix of gaining niche back

and more dmg

[vale pine]

5 backstabs is never reallistic

[tribal blade]

but the core problem still here

[short radish]

ye

entirely beholden to tuning

[vale pine]

i don't think much will be done

[hollow spear]

It fixes a problem that we have (low burst relative to where we come from) and doesn't buff us by too much, so it makes sense

The extra DR is quite strong tho, so that makes me think

[vale pine]

we arn't that good statistically

and our cleave is not insane after the buffs

[tribal blade]

i think it's more of an issue on outlaw

than sub

with their 60% uptime

[hollow spear]

We will sim 117k or so, while uhdk sims at 150k (?)

[vale pine]

ye

[tribal blade]

sub's uptime of cloud cover is like ~22%

[chrome palm]

this is where a 6% st buff to sub and 10% to outlaw look interesting

in terms of boss damage its a big shot upwards

[short radish]

yeah like in terms of acutal ST damage

[chrome palm]

which is very important on beloren/lura

[short radish]

we were never terrible

[lilac stag]

At this point it’s extremely good on an extremely mid (burst) spec. With some of the other class adjustments and burst, ~4% (what it was for me) in ST isn’t going to all of the sudden turn me into a meta god.

[vale pine]

egg boss looks benefitial for sub ye

still has bad timings

laura idk

could just play outlaw

the boss has no hard dps checks

[chrome palm]

lura sub is already very high boss damage

as ds

[lilac stag]

We’re still melee in ranged raid

[chrome palm]

i am excited to try outlaw on lura

i think outlaw could top lura st, if other classes arent being mega buffed

[vale pine]

possible ye

[grand hemlock]

we got anyone here who performs high parsing on 16s?

[vale pine]

we have some high key pushers in here iirc

but most of high keys currently switched to assasssination unless i missremember

[short radish]

i wonder if the buffs are enough to make a swap back to sub

[vale pine]

probably are

[short radish]

but its not like any of our damage profile is changed

except more damage

[vale pine]

the problem is

[short radish]

like its still no more prio than before right?

[vale pine]

we still suck on certain bosses

[short radish]

sorry

swap back to sub for m+

[vale pine]

ye

i mean e.g. seat

3 boss fight won't be good for sub

[short radish]

ye

but then last boss crank

the ol play half key as sin strat?

[vale pine]

last boss for sure

well

maybe just play outlaw

[tribal blade]

there's actual waiting before going to last boss

[vale pine]

[tribal blade]

so just end 3rd boss

TP out, swap sub

but i dunno where you enter when you rezone back in

if you have to run all the way back it's not worth

[short radish]

its like 50 seconds of RP

surely worth

[vale pine]

too bad you can't cheese it with acantina key anymore

[tribal blade]

is it 50? might be enough time

[tribal blade]

didn't even know that was a thing lol

[short radish]

idk im making that number up

cant you do it with housing tp?

or that also fixed

[tribal blade]

no idea

[grand hemlock]

are there major changes between sub and assa gear? is the damage that different atm?

[vale pine]

you initially got back to where you used it, they then changed it to always go to the city

[tribal blade]

ahhh i see

[vale pine]

you want 700-800 haste on sub

[tribal blade]

come next reset sub and sin will share very similar stat weights

[vale pine]

rest of the stats in mastery and crit

[tribal blade]

or more similar than before

[grand hemlock]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/character/us/dreadmaul/streamliner

[vale pine]

so if you meet the haste requirements

[grand hemlock]

this is my current setup

[vale pine]

you should be fine

[short radish]

basically all the rogue specs will right?

what does outlaw want

haste to a certain point as well

then crit/vers?

[vale pine]

probably wants a lot more vers than sub

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

think so yeah

outlaw is about to become invincible again

[vale pine]

not even that much

hmm

seems like they want crit

[somber fog]

is this only for st?

[vale pine]

no

[short radish]

looks like i need to get a myth track weap from saladbar

[vale pine]

its basically a breakpoint

to have shadow dance extension and secret cooldown line up well

which we basically have certain points

700 - 800 is the first

then we have the next one on 1100

next one somewhere around 1600+

the 1100 is worth it on deathstalker

tho we won't play deathstalker

[somber fog]

yes because with 700 i can't fit the 2nd st, i need at least 750, so i guess i swap my dagger even if the sim say no

[vale pine]

so 700-800 is the mark to hit

[candid pebble]

i'm curious why people ask for this ilvl when it's the max u can get from NM?

[vale pine]

800 makes 2nd secret in blades better align, which is why its good if you don't run guildon

but ye

700 is perfect

[lilac stag]

At least in ST crit rocketed up for me, vers => mastery when I started messing with gearsets

[barren haven]

Regarding this topic:

I’m at 833 even (I don’t have guidon in this scenario) and it doesn’t fit well (at least on target dummies). It’s like in the last second of shadow blades.

Is it ok like this, because the clones won’t be within sb or do I have to stack more haste?

Other option is to go with 700ish haste and change myth track puzzle box with veteran track guidon (only version of guidon I have).

Sims say veteran guidon, but its sounds just ridiculous

[vale pine]

slightly above 800 is fine, just don't go way above

without guidon its roughly 800

[somber fog]

maybe i'm too slow or i do something wrong, because with 712 haste i can't land the 2nd st, with 754 haste instead i can

[vale pine]

with or without guidon?

[somber fog]

without

[barren haven]

Okay. Because in most cases the 2nd sec tech is still not within sb and I understood that’s this is the goal we want to archive

[vale pine]

without guidon 800 is better because you can land it more reliable

[lilac stag]

700 only works with guidon

[vale pine]

ye, thats why we aim for 800

[barren haven]

Ye, I mean with 833 haste still

[vale pine]

secret cooldown cdr is rly cool, right

not confusing at all

[lilac stag]

2 button spec

fyi

[vale pine]

I am joking, most long term subelty players don't rly like how haste is integrated in the spec

it feels not well worked out

[barren haven]

It’s just annoying tbh

[lilac stag]

I’ve spent more time explaining how a 2 button spec works than I did all of TWW

[barren haven]

But when everything works out it feels rly good

[vale pine]

If we go into detail, the haste breakpoints exist now because of the combination of dance extension and secret cdr

but whats even worse is the haste extension

which should be just round to the next natural number

so if its 6.3 sec dance

just make it 7 sec

[lilac stag]

If Sectech was 2 charges and no CDR, I don’t think anyone would have an issue with the dance extension

[vale pine]

having this incremental small .x values

just means we need to be super careful to not lose a gcd

and macro spells

just punishing for everyone

rounding it to the next natural number would give you a lot of extra time to fit the last global

[lilac stag]

but charges are confusing apparently

[vale pine]

so you would not need the problems

[vale pine]

I still like the idea of shots in the dark for secret

let me secret every dance

[lilac stag]

My concern is it’s always there and less thinking.

[vale pine]

I mean, you would still need to manage the 2nd secret cast

[lilac stag]

If they go that route goremaws or a new ability needs to be addressed

[vale pine]

so can balance its cooldown

but in terms of thinking

what do you need to think atm

most things are just annoyances due to bugs or early deisgn problems

i don't think people are like

[lilac stag]

You’re still making sure you’ve got both ready for SC

[vale pine]

"oh right, i think using storm + dance in a macro is a greeat optimization"

"oh, i don't get my aa during dance at the start because of premed, surely feels great"

[barren haven]

I dunno for me the only thing that cause me headaches is that super crisp 2nd sechtech without guidon.

I can’t seem to make it work with pure haste all the time

[vale pine]

"oh ye, i missed my last gcd in dance because of lag, valuable design"

[lilac stag]

until they actually address stealth / dance code clusterfuck it’s going to be ugly

[vale pine]

"oh, i can't fit 2nd secret in blades because i miss 30 haste"

even the aa optimization

all of it comes from deisgn problems

e.g. premeditation can just give you sht stacks instead of cp

problems solved with aa

[lilac stag]

I’m surprised there’s no gain with changes to striking to keep AA rolling

[vale pine]

wdym

[lilac stag]

The AA optimization just being good during dance vs only the SC

Premed - no idea wtf they are doing with that. Doing think they have one either.

[somber fog]

the thing that with the new changes we need to backstab to 7 cp in the opener make me feel so bad lol

[dark roost]

what new changes are these? i think i have missed something

[somber fog]

check pins

[dark roost]

of course we do

thanks. just read it, "you cannot proc any shadow clones from a Shadowstrike with Premeditation up," this actually explains so much

i thought id be going nuts for about a month when i see the visual just disappear for shadow clones when i press dance

[vale pine]

the aa optimization is for supercharger

so ye

[vale pine]

tl;dr: premed bug makes it good to drop premediation in 12.0.5, the opener without premediation is a bit cursed

(backstabbing before the use of shadow dance)

[somber fog]

do you know if Ephemeral Bond works on your self healing? for ex leech and exhilarating execution?

[vale pine]

should work on any incoming healing, but i am not 100% sure

always a chance of a bug somewhere

[raw frost]

They only change 1 hero talent xd

[winter niche]

Hi guys, been reading this thread and its very helpful so thank you. How much would u say your rogue sims on patchwerk? Like what would be a good number to strive for in sims with like 750 haste in order to have a good character to start trying to push parses?

[raw frost]

Why we should drop premediation

Nothing changes basically .

[raw frost]

why

[winter niche]

and also is it okay to flask haste to get to that 700-800 range?

[short radish]

yes

you do whatever you need to do to get to 700 or 800

[short radish]

depends on ilvl

parsing kinda not possible if your gear sucks

[winter niche]

im 275 and i sim 95k patchwork

should be pretty good right?

[short radish]

yeah

a good sense check of yourself

is doing a sim against the dummy

(not patchwerk)

and then doing the same fight time

and comparing

[raw frost]

compared to other classes

i think SUB ST is bad

[short radish]

if youre the same as the sim

[raw frost]

in raid at least

[short radish]

then youre playing fine

[short radish]

it's not

it's average/slightly above

the problem is that the raid is not ST

[winter niche]

Haven't been able to get my hands on a gaze or guidon, so im running puzzle box and the trinket from skyreach. Am i crazy or is guidon just INSANE because of the extension of SD and reduction on STECH>

[short radish]

the crucible trinket should sim better, but that's quibbling minor stuff

and yeah guidon is really strong because of that

alas I too am a puzzle box gamer

[winter niche]

first week on heroic I had an average parse of 90 something and now im lucky if I get above 50 lol

and then I look at vods and logs and I don't really see much im doing wrong, but they have gaze and guidon

[short radish]

i mean you can still parse without guidon

im a pbox gamer and i still can get 99

[raw frost]

ye all people are padding like crazy

😄

[short radish]

granted i have m gaze though 🤡

[winter niche]

ye true i don't really pad

[short radish]

yeah that's entirely what parsing is

though padding is probably like

15 percentile points at most

you can play entirely full ST on all the "pad" bosses

and still purple parse

[winter niche]

up until today I had a 263 saptor paw trinket

that probably didn't help

[short radish]

yeah that's also shit

try out the crucible trinket in sims

make sure its fully upgraded

[winter niche]

that only works in the voidstorm area no?

[short radish]

negative

works everywhere

[winter niche]

hmm

[raw frost]

the chimera trinket is really god ;d

and really hard to get

[winter niche]

and you think 263 of that would be better than 276 Prism?

[raw frost]

and witohut it the dmg is really meh

[short radish]

comparable yeah run a sim

(make sure it's fully upgraded)

[lilac stag]

Tuesday bump. Live is 98.5

[winter niche]

can u show ur gear?

[tribal blade]

the fun thing about it being bursty is it can net out to be even more dps

when applied in real world

[lilac stag]

Nothing special. 700 haste + Guidon

[winter niche]

i need to get me one of those guidons

[short radish]

shhhh next thing you'll be saying is that sims are not a perfect example of actual boss fight damage

[lilac stag]

Gaze sends it close to 108

[tribal blade]

hey did you know sims are not a perfect example of actual boss fight damage

[winter niche]

whats ur ilvl?

[lilac stag]

278.3

[raw frost]

sims are not even close to real numbers

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/venom-tom-hardy-screaming-gif-11035878

[raw frost]

in riad you are moving 24/7

doing mechs

sims is static doing only dmg

[winter niche]

how in the world are you 10k above me on sim withn 3 ilvl

[raw frost]

no t even close.

[winter niche]

man this game is breaking my brain

[lilac stag]

The img is ptr

[tribal blade]

it's not just that, it's having a burst profile can be very valuable depending on the fight

[lilac stag]

Live like I said in 98.5

[winter niche]

ahh right

[tribal blade]

usually ends up being better than a flat profile in raid

[raw frost]

is this deathstalker ST ?

[lilac stag]

Fuck no

[raw frost]

trickster then

[lilac stag]

wdym it’s not an outlaw tier

[tribal blade]

we're in a ranged tier though

[lilac stag]

rip acrobatic

[tribal blade]

I STILL MISS IT

[lilac stag]

everyday

[short radish]

i like how blizzard decided that having 80% of melee classes have minor extended range was bad game design

then made unholy a ranged class

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/twitching-smile-annoyed-forced-smile-you-said-what-gif-17260425188220456805

[tribal blade]

"we recognize melee having extended range is an issue and are therefore removing it from all melee specs except not really, only the ones we don't actually like get fucked"

[short radish]

also DKs dont have a raid buff so we're going to compensate them with allowing them to ignore all movement mechanics, basically be as tanky as regular tanks passively, and also making at least one fight each tier require their unique ability of gripping mobs

[tribal blade]

while also being irreplacable in keys

at the same time

DK brings so much to keys it's not funny

[short radish]

yeah hybrid class still exist (DK as off tank in keys when your tank dies)

[tribal blade]

one thing a lot of people who don't push high keys don't get is bringing a dps DK buffs your entire party's healing

because the healer doesn't have to worry about healing the DK

[raw frost]

btw the premedaition talent drop is fine ;d

if before the pull you already have combo points in reserve :d

this way it will do the same job :d

[lilac stag]

Two backstabs in an opener is a trade off I’ll take for MORE BURST

[raw frost]

but arent you styarting with stealth + shadowblade

shadowstrike*

[tribal blade]

yes but you'll only gen 2 CP without premed

[raw frost]

only if you dont have secret techniques 5 +

if you have , you will be at 7 again froom the start

[tribal blade]

you won't have that when pulling a boss

[raw frost]

well for boss yes xD only in m+

[tribal blade]

M+ it doesn't matter

nearly as much

because you can gen full CP with 1 storm

[raw frost]

i got it now ,

[tribal blade]

also in keys you can preuse dance to have 2 supercharger ready to go

then strike>evis and with 2 CP you'll get snd duration as if you used 5 CP

(i really like getting snd up before going into cds in keys)

[short radish]

i did but i have some feelycraft with this

first hit usually procs all your enchants and shit

gaze

etc

so by getting snd up early

but then afking while the pull is being gathered

youre wasting your trinet/enchant procs

[tribal blade]

MMM i see

[short radish]

this is entirely feelycraft btw

[tribal blade]

i never noticed

[short radish]

but it makes sense

i think

[tribal blade]

i can try with target dummies

should be accurate right?

[short radish]

yeah

[tribal blade]

this becomes the question of does the dmg you do during gather matter enough to negate having enchants and gaze up immediately in cds

[short radish]

surely next week, cds matter even more

[tribal blade]

they will for sure

honestly dunno

[raw frost]

is this the right opener for dungeons

[short radish]

yeah like i said, its a bit feelycrafty

[tribal blade]

i've never heard that argument for not opening immediately in keys, it's interesting

[raw frost]

i usually go stealth > shadow strike + instant shaodw blades shadow dance SECTEC

and from the the usual 😄 powder + storm

[tribal blade]

usually that isn't enough time for the pull to be gathered

unless you're afking or the tank is single pulling

[raw frost]

i am just waiting him to gather the mobs

basically

[tribal blade]

you wanna wait for the pull to be at least mostly gathered before sending everything

[raw frost]

and thgen going all in

[tribal blade]

i just get into combat asap

but who knows maybe fim has real tech

for waiting

[short radish]

maybe i'll hit some dummies later

[short radish]

im also not sure if getting into combat procs things

so i might just be thinking abuot nothing

[tribal blade]

no i definitely remember doing open world stuff and strike porting to a mob and everything procs at once

enough to notice

so you might be onto something

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

before raid came out and i had just crafted dagger was watching my buffs to see the hunt procs

[short radish]

there's 2 confirmation points

1. does hitting a mob combat proc everything (probably true)
2. does getting into combat proc anything (unknown)

[tribal blade]

and it would usually proc insta on getting into combat along with other stuff

[tribal blade]

i can try later when i'm logged in

[shadow urchin]

https://xpoff.com/threads/how-rppm-works.81584/

If you wanna read on procs

[short radish]

nah this isn't as deep as ppm/rppm

or maybe it is

and im feelycrafting that first hit has really high BLP

[tribal blade]

i tried to read that post but i'm too stupid

[short radish]

do you know psudo random distribution?

[tribal blade]

lol hell no

i think i unironically have math PTSD

courtesy of having an asian mother

[shadow urchin]

All procs are rppm nowadays p much

And ye. In outer world blp caps to 100% when you afk

[olive canyon]

I have been watching/looking at a lot of logs, some rogues, even at the higher end seem to not proc apex in dance, with supercharger up etc etc

is that amistake or a practical piece of play

[short radish]

okay tl;dr psudo random of 25% chance doesn't mean each hit has a 25% chance

each time the hit happens/dice rolls. It has an ever increasing chance to hit.
e.g. first hit will be 8.4% chance to crit, 2nd hit will be 16.94%

so it evens out the proc curve a bit

which also means you can kinda game it because every time you don't hit, the chance of your next hit is going to be higher

[shadow urchin]

Some procs are like that like sht(at least used to be, dno if changed)

[short radish]

wow doesn't really use this but the RPPM is similar in the fact that it kinda guarantees you a proc every x time

[short radish]

sht was kinda like that

[shadow urchin]

Some healer procs were also using deck rng

[short radish]

50% on 3rd hit, 100% on 4th

[shadow urchin]

Not sure if deck rng is still here today

Yup

But trinks enchants are 99% just rppm

[short radish]

yeah pretty sure most of wow is just rppm these days

but that leads back to the whole

first hit you generally get the proc

because your chance is sitting at almost 100%

but because of that, you want to land your proc when youre about to do your damage

[shadow urchin]

Blp is reset on ecounter start and key start

[short radish]

so hitting a mob and pressing snd, getting your 15 second trinket proc but then waiting another 10 seconds for mob to group

[shadow urchin]

So youre not guaranteed on key start or raid boss pull

[short radish]

feels like it loses out to just sitting in stealth until mobs are grouped

hmmmm i see

[small sleet]

proccing apex in dance on supercharged combo points is definitely better

[ivory leaf]

is dungeon slice fine for simming m+? or do we do the patchwerk 5 targets thingo?

[short radish]

if that's the case

wait

is RPPM based on combat time

or just time

[shadow urchin]

Its time since last proc and time since last attempt

Then you apply the formula

[short radish]

but is it "combat time" or just "time"

because those are 2 different things right

[shadow urchin]

No just time

[short radish]

[shadow urchin]

With keystart and boss pull resetting it to 0

[short radish]

kk thanks

[shadow urchin]

Basically trinket like gaze has 1.66% to proc per attempt for first 180 seconds of combat iirc.

And attempts are you hitting enemies with spells

If no proc until 3 mins % goes up due to blp

[short radish]

and the proc chance is going up every second

even if you don't attack a mob

right?

[olive canyon]

do most of you use vanish in the opener or right after the double dance window ends

[short radish]

whenever i feel like i need max cp

[olive canyon]

i mean use it right after first charge ends as a filler

[short radish]

half the time i treat it as an extra shadowstep tbh

[shadow urchin]

Not attacking does increase chance for the first attempt

Then it resets the time since last attempt again

[short radish]

proc_chance = unlucky_streak_prevention *
(rppm / 60.0) *
MIN(time_since_last_proc_attempt, 10.0)

unlucky_streak_prevention = MAX(1.0, 1.0 + 3.0 * (time_since_last_proc * rppm / 60.0 - 1.5))

ON ENTERING RAID BOSS COMBAT:
SET time_since_last_proc = 0.0
SET time_since_last_proc_attempt = 0.0

looking at this it's constantly updating every second since Time_since_last_proc

[shadow urchin]

Yes

But in the blp is backed in a "timer" you have to surpass without proc before proc % goes up

[tribal blade]

me too lol

[short radish]

yeah the amount of time i press step too many times

and look like a fool

[shadow urchin]

As with short enough time it just is lower than the

" So if 1+3*(time_since_last_proc * rppm /60 - 1.5) is higher than 1.0, then that is used as a multiplier, otherwise the multiplier is 1.0 (which changes nothing)."

[short radish]

ahhh right so there's two elements in there

[shadow urchin]

And the factor here is trinkets rppm, gaze being 1

[short radish]

there's the internal RPPM and then there's the BLP modifier

[shadow urchin]

Blp is just part of it

Not the best math teacher sorry :D

[balmy gate]

u guys theorycraft to much other discord are not that deep thats why rogue is deadge.D

[shadow urchin]

This is just math that sim does for you

[small sleet]

ive personally never felt more alive

[shadow urchin]

Buy its neat if you wanna look into iy

[short radish]

dw this has been educational. thank you

[shadow urchin]

Cheers

[short radish]

u know why enh never gets nerfed? cos their discord is fucking DEAD and doesnt have 5 turboautists simming every single variable every single hour of the day, THEY FLY UNDER THE RADAR meanwhile our buff gets annoucned and 5 minutes later we got a full scientific paper detailing how its a 11.959185% buff with 0% margin of error u did this to yourselves.

the nerf is because of hubris.... you people were not satisfied with being a strong spec. You had to rub it in everyone's faces. You're autistic, period. HUMAN NATURE dictates that you will be jealous of your neighbour if he has more than you, so why do you RUB all those insane sims in other classes' faces? here and all over wowhead? What did you expect to happen? that shit ass warlocks would look on those numbers and be like "oh good for them"? so fucking dum

[shadow urchin]

Bro had it loaded and ready

[olive canyon]

Top tier comment and highly accuarate

Been like that since the EJ days

[short radish]

is reheated pasta but still so fucking valid for rogue

[weak cypress]

Peak legit peak, he’s so right

[olive canyon]

When i roll an alt and go check other discords, its just ...not it

We have been spoiled.

[tribal blade]

holy shit do it again

[short radish]

my mate keeps giving me shit when i sim for dslice

[short radish]

nah, but instead check this out (not my raid)

[olive canyon]

mate i feel that pain

[tribal blade]

this hurts

[olive canyon]

Intermission wipes made me rage

i do no dmg on that fight as i raid lead and i just watch the utter insanity

even on rekill we are good for at least 1-3 wipes

[tribal blade]

that might be the most memey HoF ever

[short radish]

ranged press interrupt challenge: difficulty impossible

[fading quartz]

How important is the haste breakpoint in m+? It doesn't seem like all the top sub rogues are going for it

[olive canyon]

10000%

Meanwhile im pvping the adds

so we dont wpe

[tribal blade]

unless you are chinese and run with a group that pulls around you and does gigantic pulls all the time, hitting haste breakpoint very good

[short radish]

ranged OPEN THEIR FUCKING EYES AND USE A SINGLE BRAINCELL TO REALISE WHICH SIDE IS FAR AWAY FROM THEM: ACTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE CANNOT DO

[lilac stag]

What top players do isn’t always right for the masses.

[olive canyon]

mate i had to change mine to "right and left" for some unknown reason

[short radish]

landed a cheap shot at .2 seconds left on a cast

[olive canyon]

far and close was too complex

[short radish]

got a "holy shit nice cheap shot fimb"

ngl that felt good

[olive canyon]

i had a same but on a step kick

tbh our shamans are good with tremor

[tribal blade]

me when my RL tells everyone else good job for their cc but not me because nobody knows what cheap looks like

[olive canyon]

ROFL

[short radish]

[fading quartz]

Ahh okay, how are the pulling since the haste isnt as important?

[lilac stag]

subtlety do low damage (“精妙”专精的伤害较低) get 700 haste from stats (通过属性面板获取 700 点急速) perecent does not matter (百分比数值并不重要) robot needs less haste than dad with 3 kids (机器人所需的急速比那位带着三个孩子的“老爸”要少)
enjoy bench (“老爸”要少)

[olive canyon]

nothing hurts my soul more than my cds off CD on that intermission and im full kidney and cheap shotting each wave where possible

[fading quartz]

Genuinely curious, what do they do that changes it?

[short radish]

if this boss was tuned any harder

rogue is unironically really fucking good

because of 9 second stun

[tribal blade]

i've played with chinese players like that before, they push keys harder than anyone i've ever played with, basically redlining every single pull to the brink of wiping or actually wiping, but then still timing because they're doing absurd dmg and pushing timer so hard

[lilac stag]

Bigger pulls, makes puzzle slightly better. Give up more boss dmg.

[olive canyon]

honestly i think we would be real good this tier if we just had evis on nimble

[lilac stag]

Which doesn’t happen in your average lfg key

[short radish]

but it's a meme boss so fucks given = 0

[olive canyon]

idlike to see the math on that

[short radish]

oh yeah 100% we'd be really good

our ST was already average/above average

[olive canyon]

We were so close to greatness

[fading quartz]

Makes sense, ty for clarifying! :D @tribal blade @lilac stag

[olive canyon]

but im very hyped for reset

[tribal blade]

tl;dr i've never played with a group of people who push the tempo of a key more than the chinese lol

[olive canyon]

As a raid leader planning paladins and cosmos next week and wondering hw many melee to bring

is not fun

[grim wasp]

you guys use kidneyshot? o.o

[lilac stag]

In LFG keys, losing casts of dance and blades bad. Very bad. In org big pull group the impact is less when you are holding CDs

[olive canyon]

hurts my soul every time @grim wasp

[tribal blade]

hell yeah does dmg now

[olive canyon]

1st and 3rd set every intermission

[short radish]

the answer is 0

[olive canyon]

honestly thinking i just go 2dks, 1 rogue

kinda of have to be in to raid lead

[short radish]

yeah DKs are ranged melee anyway

[lilac stag]

1 atrophic so you can 5 heal

[tribal blade]

watch the tactycks vid, he basically says it's good to bring a rogue to paladins now

[olive canyon]

the other rogue is really good, but not like we are some high end guild, probably will catch more nerfs next week

yeh i watched it

[lilac stag]

A full supply of inky black potions

[olive canyon]

i planned and mapped out all fights but the last 2

[tribal blade]

this too

that'll knock off i'm guessing 10-20 pulls

from wipes to people randomly getting hit and dying

[short radish]

totally not paid off by BIG ROGUE (charrand)

[tribal blade]

TRUE

ngl i enjoy seeing charrend's name on the meters when i watch his guides haha

[karmic harbor]

What does rogue do on that fight

[tribal blade]

bring atrophic

[short radish]

Bring atro

[karmic harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/oppenheimer-cillian-murphy-cillian-murphy-peaky-blinders-gif-1787947313354313976

[tribal blade]

if you play sin the dmg is not gutter

[lilac stag]

One of the non meme needs for the poison

[tribal blade]

it's not great, but passable

[small sleet]

i think sub is actually not as bad as logs say it is on that fight

[tribal blade]

uh

i dunno about that one

[lilac stag]

cloud cover gonna go hard

[tribal blade]

true cloud cover could change things, but to surpass sin there's no shot

[small sleet]

oh for sure

assa is just better

but sub is not as unplayable as it looks i think

[lilac stag]

subs advantage is durability.

Maybe outlaw shines now

[small sleet]

i think just no one has put up a good log of it

[lilac stag]

On that fight

[karmic harbor]

I'm playing sin and doing like 130k 6mins in

[tribal blade]

rank 1 paladins log

[small sleet]

yeah but like

hes doing things really wrong imo

like using lights potential pot

doesnt make sense

[tribal blade]

nah it's just not good

[small sleet]

thats just worse than reck

[tribal blade]

i'm not the best sub rogue

but on heroic i was doing 0 dam

and getting beat by everyone

while parsing 99

[small sleet]

i griefed the fuck out of our prog kill of paladins this week so unfortunately i cant prove anything

but maybe next week i can play like a human and put up a better log

[tribal blade]

it's just not possible for sub right now to be good at cleave

whatever dmg you do in burst gets completely negated by not being able to press buttons outside dance

[lilac stag]

There really is no secret sauce for that fight

[tribal blade]

there's nothing you can do yeah

fight is also made up of a lot of 2 target

which is even worse for sub

i dunno if they need to make a talent or change storm so it's 50 energy baseline but if you hit at least 2 targets get refunded 15 energy or something

[rain swift]

ur saying u shouldnt use lights potential?

[tribal blade]

fuck it refund 30 energy

[small sleet]

lights potential is not as much dps as reck pot as soon as you hit 2 targets from what i can tell

at least for my character

[rain swift]

aah, atleast pure single target lights potential sims 2k higher dps for me, but I might have to check out for 2 targets

[small sleet]

i had a mage theorycrafter in my guild rewrite the rogue apl to use reck pot before guidon instead of after and it immediately became better at 2 targets according to those sims

yeah lights potential is better in single target

[tribal blade]

thing is that wouldn't be enough to catapult sub on that fight

[small sleet]

no i agree, but like its a combination of things like the fact that the top log is having to single target one boss down for a significant amount of time

29 eviscerates on a fight where you'd prefer to use 0

[tribal blade]

could be yeah, but also maybe just because that's the only thing sub can really do that's useful on that fight

[small sleet]

haha dont get me wrong, i dont think we're good on that fight or anything

but i just mean its so underplayed on that fight that i dont think we have a good idea of the top end potential

[tribal blade]

no i get you, there could be more dmg there

but i think it wouldn't be super significant

but who knows

maybe we'll see one of the top dogs run it after cloud cover and change the game

[rain swift]

Yeah Im feeling a lot of issues with DPS on my part when Im fighting 2-3 bosses (in m+ u got derelict duo, then dragons and paladins in voidspire, my dps feels awful, every other boss its way better)

[tribal blade]

it would be hilarious if it was a respec to take vigor and tea angle

[tribal blade]

completely normal

there's very little you can do to keep up with good cleave specs

[rain swift]

yeah, the diff is too big imo like im doing something completely wrong even for my spec, 29 parse on dragons this week, but i had a 95 parse on vorasius

[tribal blade]

dragons parsing is a slight meme

it's all about who can pad on the orbs the fastest

[opal basalt]

i think that tank singlehandedly ruined weeklies for me

[rain swift]

that is fair, so dragon parse really doesnt matter then?

[opal basalt]

like how tf am i supposed to not press w anymore

[tribal blade]

might be in full dps talents haha

that would be impossible to run on higher keys

[opal basalt]

how big do you want to pull?

[tribal blade]

well it kinda matters, but it's just weird

[dry flame]

healer probably did not enjoy that haha

[short radish]

ngl, I do this in my weekly 10s

when im tanking

[tribal blade]

i've seen top sub logs for that fight and it's a situation where they have a bunch of people doing 0 damage

[opal basalt]

i fucking LOVED it

[tribal blade]

therefore they can pad more

[short radish]

healers aren't people anyway so they dont have rights

[dry flame]

Rights and Enjoyment are not opposite things tbf

[rain swift]

jsut force my guild to do 0 damage then and let me parse? xD

[tribal blade]

yup exactly

that's one fight where i was not annoyed at the 2 MM hunters in my guild gray/green parsing

because i looked at boss/orb/int add dmg

and they were topping boss and int add

and doing 0 orb

so i ain't mad at that

but every other fight they are not doing great

[olive canyon]

Im considering just going assassination for dragons too

[opal basalt]

just focus boss

[olive canyon]

the adds get blasted and its big boss dmg

[opal basalt]

could probs go DS sub no?

[rain swift]

MM hunters are either 99 parsers or 0 parsers from everytime Ive played with them, never in between

[opal basalt]

equip the 1100 haste set

[tribal blade]

sin is good yeah, that's what shindigg did

[tribal blade]

trickster will be better on reset

[opal basalt]

true forgor

cloudmaxxing

[tribal blade]

DS is naturally worse on cleave anyways

[maiden bronze]

Where can you this kind of graphic?

[opal basalt]

wcl replay

[floral lily]

Hey guys what do you thinks of buff sub 12.0.5 ?

[tribal blade]

if they don't nerf it very very good

[floral lily]

Sub get buff right so I beginning rogue if preferable I go sub

[hard shard]

is it possible to track the first dance buff? I dont see it on the cd manager

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[tribal blade]

no way is the command still wa

[short radish]

UI also works

[hard shard]

ty ty

[short radish]

but i'm forever using WA

[tribal blade]

that's funny

[small sleet]

do yall feel like yall actually get really good value out of first dance in m+? i stopped running it a while ago and havent felt any need to go back to it

[tribal blade]

it's definitely good but i don't think it's make or break our dps

it competes with finality which buffs our dmg always

it definitly feels better going into a new pull with TFD up though

[torn tide]

this will never stop being funny

[modest tide]

is there a list of which buffs are most important? warri shout etc.

[vale pine]

!sheet has simulations for the buffs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[modest tide]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

but its skyflurry > reset

warrior shout is good, mark of the wild is good

[small sleet]

what makes motw 2.7% instead of the 3% i assumed it would be? do we have certain spells/damage that doesnt scale off vers

[fallow nimbus]

Can we sim with changes of the next week?

[shadow urchin]

Vers on gear

[small sleet]

gotcha, that makes sense, thanks!

[stiff stirrup]

damn playing without premed sounds cursed

[grand summit]

Second this I wanna know if cloud cover is good now

[fossil forge]

any eu gamers wanna hop in mythic voidspire

[wet robin]

Sin strong on paladins as well

[valid thunder]

Hello, everyone, im mostly doing +10-13 keys for mounts and achievs so i was wondering if i should play sub or sin. Sin seems to be higher on lists, but its still kinda low keys and sub might perform better without ramp up time. What would you suggest? Thank you

[sharp peak]

either are fine, play what you like

[wet robin]

After 700 haste, with cloud cover change is crit just all out the best secondary? Or are there some kind of diminishing returns behind the scenes

[lilac stag]

Mastery still will have value, especially in aoe

the chances of you hitting DR on either crit or mastery are slim

[maiden oar]

its harder to get scammed by monsters dying quickly if u play sub

but sins not terrible in low keys especially if ur friends are weak

so if u have a preference default to that one

[leaden thorn]

sup all? is this buff a copium and should just go assa or actually good? i dont raid so just from dungeons pov

[final gulch]

buff is really good

[fossil forge]

is anyone using the draught of rampant abandon

[wet robin]

IMO the cost of missing even one good global, let alone a few over a fight isn’t worth it. Especially in prog, i just go with light’s

I suck at seeing the silence circles so maybe some are better with it

[manic ivy]

one of the most asked questions but im still lost because im dumb

is it worth to macro SB-SD-ST? if not am I missing the order? I do manually SB > SD > ST

[fiery fog]

yeah its worth

[manic ivy]

aight arigato (thank you in anime)

[fiery fog]

rawr (no problem in dinosaur)

[open coyote]

how do you guys play around puzzle box in m+, like it's a 3m cd or like SB is a 2 min cd

or does it vary pull to pull

[fallow glade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[maiden oar]

[lilac stag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1487881361506173028/puzzlebox.gif

And play guidon

[open coyote]

seems like most play with puzzle

[lilac stag]

because most do what you did and copy paste top 1% in China doing giga pulls

[leaden thorn]

or some of us who dont raid

[open coyote]

it felt fine a few times because i got my cd's back near the end of a pull so i just sent a normal sec tec and then i waited 5 seconds into the next pull to pop cd's

[lilac stag]

No reason not to kill first boss in n & h

Losing blades casts is bad

Are your big pulls every 3 minutes? Are they every 2?

We’re a 90 second cd spec

[dry flame]

if you whisper group lead, usually a red flag tho, ngl

[lilac stag]

Play assa if you want to play box imo

[dry flame]

Sometimes, you gotta agree with scath

[keen dome]

he speaks the truth

[leaden thorn]

im way out of what wow is about for me ( arena ) with just dungeons and im having fun for now but raiding seems awful. i tried pugging once and second boss was enraging on normal kekw

[tulip lodge]

Stuck between 2 options in vault, myth neck with a vers, vs. heroic puzzle box. Neither option seem great especially since puzzle box doesn't seem great to use and its only heroic. Everything else in vault is useless...thoughts?

[eternal abyss]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[lilac stag]

Hard truths hit hard.

[tidal solstice]

sounds like youre getting a socket

[dry flame]

Real eyes recognize real lies.

[tidal solstice]

real eyes realize real lies

[dry flame]

real

[tidal solstice]

get it right

[lilac stag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1487881361506173028/puzzlebox.gif

Where is the lie?

[keen dome]

where it belongs

with the car batteries

[lilac stag]

Polluting our planet. Fucking box.

[dry flame]

Next season gonna be real puzzlen't

[lilac stag]

Some poor assa rogue trying to magnet fish it out of the lake

[shadow urchin]

For last season please dont vote aa

I beg

[keen dome]

Vote AA, got it.

Will do

[shadow urchin]

[floral lily]

hey guy's you thinks sub got huge buff on 12.0.5 ?

[keen dome]

yes

[dry flame]

not a dungeon trinket, but Draught of Souls was such a fun trinket (no MA anymore)

[keen dome]

check pins

[open coyote]

i'm voting scarlet monastery

[lilac stag]

If AA gets voted, @tepid raven unbans Flowii!

[keen dome]

I will vote for the worst option and then complain about my hubris

[tepid raven]

[shadow urchin]

Ok that guarantees aa wont win vote

[spare crypt]

darkflame cleft waiting room

[floral lily]

@keen dome Where is ?

[keen dome]

In the pins

[olive canyon]

this iisnt specifically for rogues but is there a place to check external cds and their gain per class? like PI

[leaden thorn]

how much crit to have after the change ?

[keen dome]

I'm not sure if there's a precise number, but more is gooder.

[leaden thorn]

so go all crit instead of mastery wherever i can ?

[dry flame]

you still want the haste breakpoints

[keen dome]

You still want Mastery for damage, it's just crit has gained value, esp in ST. So you wanna aim for the 700 breakpoint -> mastery + crit

[leaden thorn]

i get that part but i dont understand the more crit the better part as it comes at the cost of the mastery

[keen dome]

Like Eleem says here. in ST, Crit has gained priority over Mastery. So more is gooder, but you don't want to dump all your Mastery for Crit.

[vocal rock]

Ok I really need that skyreach trinket now

[keen dome]

This is very much a (once Sims are updated which I know nothing about, they might already be!) you'd wanna sim to figure it out.

[dry flame]

Be like me and keep all different-stat gear so you can swap around

[vocal rock]

My interpretation is if our gear doesn’t have a certain amount of crit then we may not want to switch talents yet? Or nah this is a straight buff for everyone to swap talents asap?

[dry flame]

str8 buff

on a stack

[vale pine]

you don't want to switch gear before the patch is out

[vocal rock]

Wow

[vale pine]

crit gets more worth when crit damage is higher

[dry flame]

Dom Rogues after reset

[tepid trellis]

time to 1 bang this dumbass windchime

[dry flame]

no L'ura errors

str8 code

[vale pine]

have fun on your date with laura

[candid pebble]

becareful of it's greatest ability , Emotional Damage

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[median nacelle]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[raw frost]

After the patch

Does our bis trinks stay the same

The chimerys one and 90 cd one

As crit is getting priority

[vale pine]

bis trinkets stay the same

[raw frost]

Ok

[wintry heart]

This is really all I care about everything else is easy to get

What are crafted weapons maxing out at on Tuesday?

[vale pine]

so you basically

want to have guidon or puzzle

and pair it with either the trinket everyone wants or one of the other strong passive options

[tidal solstice]

i pray to rngesus

[vale pine]

(gaze is probably very hard to get)

(tho we get bonus rolls)

[hidden plank]

Is one more desirable than the other?

[vale pine]

guidon for raid

puzzle box for m+

[tidal solstice]

one can be farmed in a day if you have the time. the other you get 2x chances a week. guess which is more desirable

[vale pine]

we haven't had gaze drop at all

once in week 1 normal

haha

[maiden oar]

oh huh i didnt realize pbox was actually preferable in any situation since im alting rogue this patch

i got lucky and ripped 1 from vault

[vale pine]

its mastery

[maiden oar]

wahoo!

[vale pine]

and thats rly good in aoe

m+ has a lot of that

[maiden oar]

yea makes sense

[red vortex]

got mine in vault this week

[maiden oar]

2nd sectech in blades rather tight with it though

[vale pine]

you probably want to get 800 haste

to fit 2x secret in blades

[maiden oar]

yea

[vale pine]

(without guidon)

[tidal solstice]

got heroic in vault after not seeing one for weeks. it drops later that night during raid

😭

[maiden oar]

surely myth flag from alt run this wk

surely the death knight doesnt win roll

[red vortex]

got a myth one

[tidal solstice]

im praying to see one in my vault

got m imp down couple days ago

if only pugging m chim was as easy

[shadow urchin]

We got 3 mythic ones this reset. One to healer one to tank

[maiden oar]

just hit off 1st bonus roll

wahoo!

i wish the bonus rolls excluded items u happened to already have won via other means

[shrewd lantern]

not really

[red vortex]

when we getting BiS M+ gear

[vale pine]

we have 20+ people waiting for it ^^

[shrewd lantern]

oof

[vale pine]

wdym

[red flame]

We finally saw another Gaze drop on hero on Tues only for our BM hunter RL to hit a 100 on it & trade it to either an RDruid or Arms Warr I believe 🥲

That was my 13th reason

[red vortex]

isnt running puzzlebox better for m+? than the 2 overal bis trinkets?

[vale pine]

i mean, i take either gaze or the color trinket

[tidal solstice]

probably yeh but guidon is just smoother to play and lines up every blades

[vale pine]

puzzle box is better than 2 passive trinekts because you have more dynamic

guidon is rly good in lower target situations

also not a bad choice

[tidal solstice]

i run finality 2/2+veiltouched and guidon+gaze. this lets me just blast without changing anything.

ill tweak for mythic raid or when i start pushing higher keys but for everything else its good enough lol

[crystal atlas]

682 Haste with Heroic Pit Neck T_T

With oils

[ashen warren]

if I have 628 haste

but can fit two sec tec in one SB

I dont need mroe ahste right ?

[short radish]

congratz youre a gamer

duno if this 800 haste breakpoint has changed any

but the extra haste is kinda a "there as a buffer"

so you need 587

but then shit happens

and suddenly youre half a gcd out

[ashen warren]

I see thanks for the numbers I'll save that

[short radish]

if you don't feel like you need more then more power to you

if you want to get more than get more

it's a weird tier of feelycraft on haste

[timid rose]

This explains why I need 1000 haste 😉

[hollow spear]

Fitting two sectecs into blades =! casting two sectecs while blades is up

[ashen warren]

with guidon ofc*

[hollow spear]

Sectec clones have a delay, if they hit while the blades buff is gone you done goofed

[ashen warren]

ooh right

but with guidon I always feel large

[hollow spear]

Just check your logs

And compare when the buff fades with the time your 2nd sectec clones spawn

[lilac stag]

subtlety do low damage (“精妙”专精的伤害较低) get 700 haste from stats (通过属性面板获取 700 点急速) perecent does not matter (百分比数值并不重要) robot needs less haste than dad with 3 kids (机器人所需的急速比那位带着三个孩子的“老爸”要少)
enjoy bench (“老爸”要少)

[tepid trellis]

atleast we got mythic gaze today

[tidal solstice]

anyone else using chonky character sheet?

[shrewd lantern]

male belf

[tidal solstice]

nuh uh

[vale pine]

nicu

[shrewd lantern]

that is the male belf model

[tidal solstice]

dracthyr superiority

[sullen hare]

Why use trinket slot 14 instead of 13, which is obviously a more powerful slot? Also grats

[shrewd lantern]

thats somehow worse

because drac fem is human model

[tidal solstice]

yeah breaking out of knocks by pressing spacebar is really bad

[shrewd lantern]

i meant female dracthyr

[small sleet]

we have shadowstep tho

[shrewd lantern]

is better than male

[wicked bear]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tidal solstice]

and having an extra aoe stop for m+, also bad

[shrewd lantern]

drac racial op on shit like lock and priest

3min cd “knock”

[small sleet]

aoe stopping is everyone elses problem until tuesday

[shrewd lantern]

unironically worse than tauren

the entire bit was about being male dracthyr

not female

[tepid trellis]

higher number = better

duh

[sullen hare]

🤔

[mortal snow]

We the Bonus roll system coming out next week, and we getting the two rolls (or three if your great vault you take the 6 tokens to convert to third void core bonus roll):

What is the best initial M+10 dungeon to roll on for the Myth pieces, for Sub Rogue?

[tidal solstice]

depends on what slots you have to fill still

[vale pine]

there is no "best" rly

if you don't have a good use trinket

probably aa

[tidal solstice]

for me its probably nexus cause i need a ring, boots, dagger, chest at mythic still

[vale pine]

if you want in general upgrades

and have no mythic pieces

probably skyreach

[tidal solstice]

skyreach also good but no rings there

[vale pine]

ye

its very dynamic

there is no specific best dungeon

[mortal snow]

Mmmk, I'll still look into each dungeon but just was curious the general upgrades part.

[shrewd lantern]

xenas got 2 dead slots for me otherwise good

[vale pine]

because gear levels are not equal for everyone

[shrewd lantern]

dagger and gloves

[sullen hare]

Aa has a couple pieces but our bis list is quite fragmented across the content

[tidal solstice]

like winderunenr could be good but then the loot pool is bloated by 4 bad trinkets

[shrewd lantern]

no such thing as a bis list

besides trinkets

[vale pine]

skyreach has most items as useful

thats why i suggested it

[shrewd lantern]

for you probably

[tidal solstice]

for me its skyreach and nexus, and windrunner

[shrewd lantern]

it varies by toon

[vale pine]

getting 2 out of the pool, its very likely you kinda guaranteed one good loot

[shrewd lantern]

like skyreach is bad for me personally

im gonna roll for xenas rings

then maybe box

[vale pine]

i mean

for raid you probably want to roll for gaze

[sullen hare]

That's a choice you're welcome to make of course

[vale pine]

or guidon

[shrewd lantern]

already have

im only dumping in raid on cosmos

[vale pine]

gaze/guidon/color trinket -- trinekts
neck from aleria

[tidal solstice]

i did join a mythic raiding guild this week so im likely to see trinkets soonish

[vale pine]

is the raid things

for m+ its as we discussed not that easy

[shrewd lantern]

m+ is reroll better class

[small sleet]

no we're op in m+

[tidal solstice]

i can use 5 out of the 7 itesm from nexus

no other dungeon has that ratio

[shrewd lantern]

at least raid i can pretend to be useful with atro

[sullen hare]

Come Tuesday we'll have our aoe stop back and that's new talent so we'll see how that shakes out

[shrewd lantern]

dogshit class in dungeons