subtlety

[lilac stag]

you’re not getting how limited resources work I’m guess

Do we start off with infinite sparks and crests to craft whatever we want?

Any 2H user crafting a weapon is the equivalent of a rogue crafting 2x daggers. THERES A REASON WE DONT DO THIS

[shell jewel]

yes just wait 4 weeks and then craft what u like

[potent frigate]

What I am saying is, the way to get a M track weapon is possibly vault drop (RNG) and/or drop from the 3 paladinds (RNG). Also, not many people get to do M paladins. Crafting a 285 2 hander is 100% not RNG and can be done. I know it's limited, but if crafting a wrist + cloak (same amount of sparks) gives 4k dps gain and crafting a 2 hander (same amount of sparks) gives 9k dps, do you go and craft the bracers + cloak? I don't feel like that's the play.

Also, with our way, an off hand dagger is basically a stat stick. Doesn't do us much gain in the dmg itself. But a 2hander? Insane dmg gain for all 2 hand classes.

Because our dmg scales out of MH dagger, not OH dagger. So that's why we don't craft 2nd dagger like 99% sure about this. If our spells did scale on OH dagger too, we would most likely be forced to craft (or be lucky to drop) a 2nd dagger.

[modest river]

yawll dont get m+ daggers in vault first week?

[potent frigate]

I did get one from Vorasius M. I already had crafted my dagger on that point thought and just moved the crafted one to OH. But if I was 2 hand class, I would craft weapon first, unless I have a very high chance of acquiring one naturally.

[lilac stag]

It is not when it comes to early gearing. You’re wasting resources that are better sent someplace else.

you literally farm a 2h heroic and eventually craft a mythic if you don’t get a drop.

[modest river]

nothing really ends up being a waste, because crests spent on a slot, crafted or vault, will always be permanent

[lilac stag]

early sparks you’re not spending crests on. Just the sparks. You spend mythic crests on permanent gear upgrade.

[tidal marsh]

2H users don't craft 2H early?

Somebody let Wallife and Ashine know

[lilac stag]

you put those in slots you’d never realistically take a vault item to replace.

[tidal marsh]

[lilac stag]

look how late into their gearing they crafted

What 20 mythic splits?

[tidal marsh]

Yeah, and civvies have to wait until Paladins

Loads of 2H crafted Myth weapon early

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[modest river]

Majority raiders sent the 2h craft, for warriors its a little different cause that one sword enables you to upgrade the other on fury

also embelishment might be bis

[lilac stag]

majority based on what? Your guild?

[modest river]

no just generally from different logs seen early in the tier

seen a lot of 2h crafts

[shell jewel]

just take the L scath you've clearly been outflanked

[modest river]

also i can craft most things in the game and ive made a lot of 2h swords for people

[lilac stag]

can’t be an L if I’m amused

[modest river]

also mans said "Your Guild" like im going to account 2 2h weilders as a benchmark

[short radish]

can someone tl;dr this drama for me

or point to where it started

thanks

[modest river]

Topic: should people make 2h items early

[red flame]

Tldr scath said 2h wep craft early prob isn’t the play & they’re dying on the hill that it is the play

I have no stake in this

Just observing

[brave raptor]

tldr crafting is bad early vs good if you can't get lucky

[short radish]

i mean it's a "depends on your guild"

but also who cares just craft, what are you saving crests for

[lilac stag]

How’s that second dagger craft working out?

[short radish]

wait are we talking 2h weapon or offhand

[modest river]

like putting warriors and palas aside, mages, evokers boomies hunters, a lot of crafts on weapons sent

[short radish]

because those are 2 different things

[modest river]

offhand is exception

[lilac stag]

What’s the difference. Same amount of sparks

[potent frigate]

a 2nd dagger is insanely stupid. You do not gain any benefit, because NOBODY scales out of offhand. Everybody scales out of 2 hand though. 100%

[short radish]

80 less crests though

[potent frigate]

that's the difference

[left ledge]

idk what the hell has gone down here

but 2h users always craft

[short radish]

crafting weapon early is fine

[left ledge]

it is troll to not craft as a 2h user

you save crests

[short radish]

you can't compare a 2h weap to an offhand

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/elden-ring-may-chaos-take-the-world-frenzied-flame-shabriri-gif-3344130572876412309

[short radish]

thats just silly

[modest river]

1 dagger enough with embelish is enough, discussion isnt about offhands

[potent frigate]

I feel like scath is just trolling at this point out of sure amusement.

[left ledge]

it is even recommended for specs like windwalker

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/sparklediscordserver-sparkledrama-sparklediscord-gif-15564447582029722376

[left ledge]

i dont think its trolling

prob just misunderstanding of 2h users stat budget

[short radish]

he was gonna main a warrior this season

or he played one last tier or something

[left ledge]

then im not sure

im not really invested in this enough to analyze the possible tone for trolling or w/e

but all in all always craft a weapon

if you dont you're trolling

[lilac stag]

Oh I know how the 2h work. And shocker it’s specific to the spec and class. Stuff like UH and BM don’t care as much.

Fury yeah you’re sending

[potent frigate]

I mean, our 263 weapon unholy DK would get +9k dps for a 285 craft weapon. He opted for wrist and cloak for +4k dps. That's just stupid, no matter how you look at it. Even on the occurance of you getting a better (myth track) weapon, you saved urself 80 myth crests on the upgrade anyway. So literally, the only lose is a spark.

[left ledge]

UH's first craft is a weapon

[potent frigate]

Explain how a craft for our UH was +9k gain then? If he does nto care?

[left ledge]

pretty sure that is standard advice in their disc even

[tidal marsh]

UH does care, but at least he's conceding on Fury

[left ledge]

i dont know anything about hunters though

so

[lilac stag]

Your UH didn’t farm a heroic out of keys?

[potent frigate]

Hunters get their weapon from first M boss. Could be adviced to wait a bit.

[tidal marsh]

Hunters kinda wanna wait, since gun drops off Imperator

[lilac stag]

I lot will depend on how quickly you’re seeing mythic weapon drops

[red flame]

That should just be obv tho bc as Fury you dw 2h’ers & so the 2nd wep upgrade is free if you send 2h craft

That’s just obvious

[potent frigate]

Was not lucky to get a drop. But our 276 UH dk did gain 4k from the craft as well. So, still good enough.

[teal prism]

Is it worth crafting orders to replace Adventurer neck and ring? Everything else is Vet+

[lilac stag]

if you’re still not in mythic at this point nothing matters. Hahah

[red flame]

Also warrs are pure phys dmg aka wep dmg so I mean…

[modest river]

Ive made over 40 staffs, and those dudes use arcanoweave items and not embelished wep

[red flame]

If it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck..

[short radish]

idk waiting is kinda still up to rng. vorasius is 2nd boss and i still have seen 0 daggers from him

[tidal marsh]

Don't worry, the 2nd wep upgrade is free on UH too if you craft

[potent frigate]

I have 6 of them in my bag kekw

[left ledge]

the first 2 hander is off paladins

so they are def crafting a wep instantly

[red flame]

True but they don’t dual wield so it doesn’t matter

[left ledge]

if they dont they are trolling

[short radish]

the thing is as well, what else are you sending a spark on and crests

you have 2 for embelish sure

[tidal marsh]

Nothing matters bro, we're all gonna die one day

[red flame]

If you craft 285 2h wep the 3ilv gain from a myth track wep is literally negligible

[tidal marsh]

we can keep going more reductionist if you want

[short radish]

its not

[red flame]

It would barely be an increase

[short radish]

it's not

[red flame]

But yes obviously an increase

[modest river]

Vault said "here son, enjoy the rest of the tier", who needs voracious

[red flame]

3 ilv ain’t that deep

Lmao

[potent frigate]

The 4 ilvl gain is not negligible, but you are saving many crests anyway, basically just +20 crest for max upgrade.

[short radish]

it's more than you think it is

[red flame]

How much % difference we talking

[short radish]

it's the single most gain you can get out of one upgrade level

[red flame]

Obviously yes

[modest river]

going from crafted mainhand and 266 dagger to a 289 dagger and 285 crafted offhand was a 1.5k dps up for me, seems reason able an amount

[red flame]

So negligible basically

Got it

[short radish]

that's 1.5%

[modest river]

My raidleader said anything above 1% dps isnt negligible 🙁 , i have to follow that

[potent frigate]

Going from 285 crafted to 1/6 myth track is still only 20 crest spend to get it 289 though.

[short radish]

we do more for optimisations which are less dps

[lilac stag]

This was the original gearing suggestions. 2H str recommended to, but I do believe DK discord said wait.

[keen dome]

I have been defeated by the need for food, Myth Chim lives another day

[left ledge]

DK disc advised crafting

i mean their first 2h is off paladins

[short radish]

not the larias spreadsheet

[left ledge]

so they're kinda fucked

[lilac stag]

ah yeah

[potent frigate]

The agi is from 2nd boss, quite easy to get down quickly. Many guilds have done that. But paladins? Not many guilds have downed it. You either could have a 2 hand craft for 2 weeks already and pump and/or wait for your first clear of paladins that you can or cannot clear for weeks to come. And you need to get lucky enough for it to drop as well.

SO any strenght 2 hand user should've crafted long ago, as many will take weeks to down paladins and/or be lucky enough for a drop. Or already have a 2 hander and pump. Or be lucky on the vault.

[short radish]

idk i think holding craft on weap is just troll in general past week 2

sure you can maybe get it

but what are you holding crests and sparks for

[left ledge]

yes

you just send

[short radish]

who cares about efficiency unless youre top 20 guild

[left ledge]

also because almost everyone is playing hunt

[potent frigate]

Basically our guild (CE guild) has said to craft a weapon as soon as possible, unless you got it from 1st vault.

[left ledge]

you want a crafted weapon anyways

[leaden thorn]

guys what do you average overall in m+ 15s or similar ?

[short radish]

also yeah hunt strong

[lilac stag]

holding anything is troll. Just being efficient is the play.

[keen dome]

carry me to a Myth chim kill mr. aussie man please.

[short radish]

sorry i'm busy that day

[potent frigate]

I mean, how efficient are you holding the 2 hand craft though? M crests are timegated. You will not gain any more gain than a 2 hand craft. And if you're lucky enough to get it to drop, you have saved ur crests for the upgrades anyway with the craft. You only lost sparks - but then again, do you have M track crests open to craft with the sparks? I don't and will not have for weeks to come.

[keen dome]

[short radish]

1.2%

if you think that's negligible well i got nothing

[empty bobcat]

hey, I was wondering why its important to enter ShadowDance with full CPs - it feels kinda unnatural - I am still used to play with the macro (coming from dragon flight) - why is it bad to enter dance then ShStrike etc

[short radish]

trickster likes to enter dance with high combo points to instantly send sectech

why? sim says so

[empty bobcat]

is it a big loss if you dont?

[potent frigate]

It is

[modest river]

you also get another use if you have trinket and haste requirement, so send it quickly and send another

[left ledge]

because you want to get sectec on CD as soon as possible, danse macabre no longer gives you a % dmg increase, so its only important that sectec is supercharged, dance also scales with haste now and so you really want to make sure you're getting as many of your strongest globals as possible in dance

[modest river]

sectec i mean, two in a blades window

[red flame]

Maby I should’ve worded it better. Not literally dictionary definition of negligible, obviously it matters, it was a hyperbole

but 1.2% is not that deep end of the day. Ofc it’s better & yea obv go for it. But literally it’s the same differential as forgetting to do the pre-pull cheese xd

[left ledge]

and once again like with most optimizations on sub

i think its like a 1% diff

you really dont gotta do shit on this spec

this is press buttons the spec

[potent frigate]

Me during the opener on my keyboard "1 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 2"

[modest river]

wait look at this macro

#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use fleeting light's potential
/use light's potential
/cast Ancestral Call
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique

[red flame]

Real af

[modest river]

1 button spec

[short radish]

he didn't press shadow dance! burn him at the stake

[left ledge]

maybe its macro'd into 1

[short radish]

[left ledge]

maybe his 1 is just
dance
sectec
evis

[potent frigate]

okay "shift 3 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 - shift 3 - 1 - 2"

[short radish]

brother your sdance is shift 3?????

[red flame]

Maby 1 is the 1br & 2 is just a dead button, a decoy

[candid pebble]

is it possible to make a slot change depending if i'm in stealth/SD or not ? it's about backstab

[short radish]

i thought i had cursed keybinds

[red flame]

[short radish]

it should auto do that no?

[potent frigate]

oh hell, you did not see my warlock in dragonflight lol

[candid pebble]

i'm using a profile from wago and the action bar that change is the one below

[short radish]

my rupture is f3

[red flame]

Yall would have a meltdown at my keybinds xd

[modest river]

i have 4 binds on my scroll wheel up and down or with shift

[potent frigate]

when we were doing Midnight falls, one guy pressing the icon macros had it on ALT + 1/2/3/4, etc.. One guy suggested to do ALT + F1 + F2 and such. Guess what happened when he pressed the 4th macro

[fossil forge]

Fimbul Whats ur dance key

[red flame]

All of mine are Alt or Shift + #
& then mouse wheel, alt+wheel, shift+wheel

[short radish]

T for just dance and Q for dance+sectech

[empty bobcat]

ic - but do you delay dance if sectec is available just to get CPs first? imagine you are at zero CP low energy and sectec is about to come off CD what you do? build CP then dance then sectech? sounds not right to me. when I enter dance I instant have 5 CP then sectech feels natural to me

[red flame]

& then the couple alt+letter

[fossil forge]

im rocking the shift q for dance shift t for dance stech

[red flame]

B for blind
V for vanish
Etc

[potent frigate]

I have 1 - 5 on my keyboard, then shift alternations and then the keys around WSAD with and without shift alternations

[left ledge]

this is an impossible situation to be in

the spec is designed so that you are never in that situation

[red flame]

I also have almost every ability as a mouseover macro as well

[empty bobcat]

uh its not? I mean I am only level 83 yet - it changes on 90?

[red flame]

Basically everything

[left ledge]

yes

a lot changes at 90

before 90 you are a fake spec

you are garbage

[ornate lake]

Gamers is there a situation where you would go shadowstrike into powder in AoE with dance? Over storm into powder?

Asking because shadowstrike hits really hard so was wondering if it works as a prio without losing too much damage?

[left ledge]

dirt

[empty bobcat]

lol

[left ledge]

im not joking

it is actually an abysmal experience

[short radish]

if you are levelling just play however you want

[potent frigate]

I had a total of 47 keybinds on my warlock back in dragonflight lol.

[empty bobcat]

yeah I mean... I learn the specc while leveling so

[short radish]

do not do a single point of consideration into optimisation

[red flame]

W hell yea

[empty bobcat]

ok then I just wait and see at 90 - ty

[left ledge]

yes

[modest river]

till 3 target i think you SS powder, post that its storm powder

[red flame]

I had like 35 WA’s for tracking buffs before they removed them

[left ledge]

just hit shit while leveling

[red flame]

[left ledge]

dont worry about how you're hitting it

[short radish]

you learn how the spec feels and what button does what, but a lot of the optimal play isn't available for you to do until 90

[left ledge]

well the core loop of the spec

isnt available until 90

because for SOME REASON

THEY TOOK SHADOWCRAFT

AND MADE IT THE APEX

[random mason]

Blizzard loves doing that

[left ledge]

do they?

[potent frigate]

It was combination of main target spells, target party spells, focus spells, etc.. Was hell to play, but fun as well

[left ledge]

do they though?

[keen dome]

maybe they'll give us a raid buff tomorrow

[left ledge]

because what other spec got shafted like that

[random mason]

Assa kinda

[left ledge]

assa got an entirely new apex talent

something they never had before

that made their pooling more of an active thing

also turned their KB into a MFD

we literally just got a jankier shadowcraft

[crystal bone]

[candid pebble]

am i the only one whose valeera start pulling every pack of mob

while i was fighting i see her going right and left pulling everything

[left ledge]

yes

she does that

[random mason]

She's doing bootcamp for m+

[empty bobcat]

as a healer? never experienced that hm

[short radish]

no she just pulls random shit

enjoy

[lilac stag]

You know you can ping her to keep her close

just ping a target / area and she won’t wander off

[red flame]

I actually didn’t know that but that’s cool as fuck 🔥

[random mason]

Tbh i just stop doing delves once i have all hero track gear

So she's only annoying for like the first month

[lilac stag]

yeah it’s way better than Brann was. Keeping MD on her also seems to keep her closer to what you want in most of them. Some of the real open delves she can get adventurous

[swift tinsel]

She does like to wander off mid-combat even if you ping targets, she’s an adventurous one

[keen dome]

She's just doing rogue things

Whom amongst us hasn't gotten bored and wandered off

[swift tinsel]

True talk

[keen dome]

Just off on a little donder

[swift tinsel]

Finished all the midnight delve achievements so now it’s just wrapping up the 1k delves and 500 bountiful chests opened achievements to go

[keen dome]

Nice

[swift tinsel]

Full-time delve main now

[keen dome]

living the life

couldn't be me, living the 8 hour pug life

[swift tinsel]

Spent two hours trying to get into keys since I’m holding mine for guild key tonight and that put me right out of wanting to do them period

Delves would never decline me

[keen dome]

Valeera has left the group

[swift tinsel]

Surprisingly only had that happen once in my 30 delve marathon yesterday

Also can keep her from getting rooted at the entrance by forcing her to the load out box at the beginning

Purple pangolin mount 100% worth the grind though

[red flame]

This is so real holy

[keen dome]

Oh yeah, it's fish doorbell season.

[swift tinsel]

It’s what now?

[keen dome]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_doorbell

fish doorbell

[swift tinsel]

My worldview just improved now that I know this exists 🥹

[keen dome]

If you want to see the actual fish doorbell, it's at: https://visdeurbel.nl/en/

And it rules

[hollow spear]

Haha, I've seen it in person

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[hollow spear]

1.715 people are fishmaxxing as we speak

[sharp seal]

yesterday I saw a comment that we want to PB > evi during dance and 2 targets. can someone explain why not BP > BP?

[undone ridge]

is danse macabre so much better then i.e Goremaws bite?

thinking about switching and trying it out

idk tho if its just dumb

[hollow spear]

To be blunt: using Goremaw's is probably dumb

Unfortunately

[undone ridge]

ok

because on paper it sounds smexy

[hollow spear]

It solves a problem that doesn't exist

During the time we do our damage (dance) we're not energy starved

[undone ridge]

i see

correct

couldnt it be used when we have down time tho?

lets say both dances out

[hollow spear]

We do no damage then

[ornate lake]

https://tenor.com/view/same-but-different-shades-actor-korea-gif-16497027

Goremaw's bite has the same importance in the Sub tree as Sepsis had before.

Same same but different

[undone ridge]

ah so its just prep for next dance anyway

be comfy with spamming backstab etc and just AA

[hollow spear]

Yep

[undone ridge]

autoattack

gotcha

btw guys why cant i use tricks of trade correctly XD

i press it and then i just press on tank no?

[hollow spear]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[hollow spear]

Just do this

[undone ridge]

wanna build the habit of just doing it before every dungeon

[random mason]

Or set up a click cast for it

[undone ridge]

quick question here i have a macro so it does it on tank or it should at least

dosent that macro make the addon obsolete?

[hollow spear]

If it's set up correctly

The addon is just way more comfy

[undone ridge]

actually?

ok i think im just gona use it then ..

it auto refreshes?

[hollow spear]

You assign two hotkeys (tank1, tank2) and that's it

[undone ridge]

❤️

[hazy breach]

Dont even really need 2

[undone ridge]

i did it for one since i dont do raids

[hazy breach]

If you really want to tricks tank 2 for some reason in raid you can just target him/her

[undone ridge]

feel u

[shadow lance]

Raidbot went crazy?
Compared to last week, it ask me to build more haste/crit

Already around 700 haste and can get 100 more mastery before DR

[vale osprey]

Gendering the robot is crazy work

[undone ridge]

https://klipy.com/gifs/clown-9

[shadow lance]

Better?

[vale osprey]

Yes it told me it prefers this tyvm xoxo

[shadow lance]

Great, send my apologies to it

[hollow spear]

The mere mortal mind cannot comprehend the robot's inner workings

Do not trust these false prophets

[hollow spear]

Idk, share sim?

[keen dome]

Fight the robot

[hollow spear]

https://tenor.com/view/will-smith-teary-eyed-sad-the-pursuit-of-happyness-gif-14485222367965496601

Me when the robot tells me to get more haste

[shadow lance]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kGsqofUaU91LWV6ynwSr74

[vale osprey]

I drop a piece of gear 我掉了一件装备 I check with robot to see if better 我向机器人确认一下，看看是否更好 I put on what robot say 我戴上了机器人说的 log still green 日志仍然绿色

[shadow lance]

Last week wowaudit, same difficulty

Only Guidon changed

[hollow spear]

Did you change flasks?

[shadow lance]

Nope, default simc

But I realize I'm not with same talents, but it shouldn't matter that much

[compact spindle]

Backstab from front (正面から背中刺す). Energy always zero (エネルギー常に空). Press vanish, still die (消えたのに死亡). Shadowstep into mechanics (影歩で即死). Kick on cooldown always (キック常にCD). Sap breaks instantly (サップ即解除). Stealth but still seen (隠密でも発見). Die to swirlies again (床技でまた死). Feign competence (有能なフリ).

[tulip silo]

Bring shame to guild

[hollow spear]

The second you change talents, everything is out of the window

[shadow lance]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qcvkayrNcHMmVtCcfzLfs6

I did sim again, still weird upgrade I had not last week

Maybe your flask thing was right

And I didn't realize last week

No, just tested, not that

[hollow spear]

Dunno, my sim does not tell me to get more haste

[hazy breach]

You have different talents

[shadow lance]

Yes, i post a second sim with same talents as the wowaudit screenshot

Having Guidon is the only explanation then but I didn't expect it to reduce the value of my other pieces

Okay, I'm stupid. Got the answer

Simc isn't taking Voidsong Chain damages in consideration. So it tries to reduce my haste

[hazy breach]

It does

[shadow lance]

Cause neck damage isn't compensating the dps loss having 700 haste

It says it may be inaccurate

That's the only thing that changed from last week

[rough dock]

yo guys does anyone know why I keep getting below 20 warcraftlog scores on chimerus mythic, when i get above 95s on first three voidspire mythic raids? Is there some kind of a bug?

[vale osprey]

Pad on small adds or get fucked

[hazy breach]

Also make sure to log yourself

(or atleast have the person logging not be in the other realm)

[rough dock]

oh shit

is that why?

[hazy breach]

Not entirely

[shadow lance]

Unless you got a stroke during encounter, yes

[swift tinsel]

"Eternal Voidsong Chain: Implementation is speculative and has not been tested. Sim results may be inaccurate." has nothing to do with your haste really

[hazy breach]

Fwiw it also does similar numbers to what it does ingame

[swift tinsel]

yeah

and with our available triggers for it the uptime is likely maxed anyways

[hazy breach]

All of your sectech clones when in "another realm" from the person doing the logging will show up on logs as "akaaris soul"

Instead of belonging to you

[shadow lance]

Dunno, I try to find why it changed

[rough dock]

oh shit

[hazy breach]

Also applies if the person logging is more than 100 yards away

[rough dock]

Eleem thanks so much

[swift tinsel]

precisely why I have wcl companion set to auto-load on login lol

[hazy breach]

Why? Droptimizer is kinda pointless anyway for sub with the haste breakpoints

Just have to topgear everything

[shadow lance]

Yes, you're right

But guild stuff

[hollow spear]

The trick is to sim with low haste to inflate your damage gains

Ez win

[karmic harbor]

does topgear work with the haste breakpoints?

why are they different

[hazy breach]

I mean adjusting your other items to compensate for the loss/increase in haste

if you have 700 haste, an item giving you 60 more is gonna show as pretty bad on droptimizer, but if you recraft your belt to no longer have haste suddenly that item might be a decently sized increase

[swift tinsel]

if Droptimizer also could generate gear combos that'd be kinda slick

but would also probably take a month to run

[wet robin]

im glad you guys are discussing this right now, my droptimizer is borked. i thiiiiiink its valuing haste at 0 before i hit next breakpoint. Showing heroic weaps slight upgrade when i have myth crafted : /

[hazy breach]

I mean its not borked

Its working like it should

[wet robin]

yeah good point

[hazy breach]

Its just that the way it should isnt helpful for sub right now

[swift tinsel]

I would really really really like them to take a look at hasted dance/sectech stuff and not have it be like it is

[alpine wraith]

yea best things you can do with droptimizer rn is make gearsets

[valid ocean]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

and check which one is better afterwards

[fallow glade]

and then the robot also thinks you are a robot too and don't need 700 haste

[wet robin]

there should but a slider bar for your age, how many kids you have and hours you sleep average

then it'll show what handicapped haste we need

claude, do it

[karmic harbor]

I need to way "sub 700 haste, -30% dps"

[torpid heath]

So 700 haste is what we should be aiming to?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[sharp ravine]

[azure thicket]

undead?

[sharp ravine]

dead ?

[azure thicket]

just making sure

my undead rogue also says 700 is 19%

[normal viper]

i have a couple questions about this haste breakpoint -

1. my haste is tragically low, 548. with that i figured maybe i should use haste flask to put me at the 700 breakpoint but mast & crit flasks are still 1% ahead of haste flask. i'm assuming this is a trust the sim angle?
2. i have myth guidon. is that 700 breakpoint with guidon, without, or both?

[swift tinsel]

1. yeah you'll want to run haste flask in that scenario
2. its 700 from just gear/oils/flask, no procs or on-use effects towards that number

[sharp ravine]

"i'm assuming this is a trust the sim angle?" Don't in this case

[swift tinsel]

me, manually adding up my haste when comparing gear

[cursive bear]

So I supposed I should not trusted sim when i lost 100 haste to be at 600 ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pxE81HN1guTLycbKCVpqZH

[sharp ravine]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

you could try it but if you check on logs liekly you lose 1 global every dance

to being hooman

[sharp ravine]

Do a !log

[upbeat sorrel]

!log

[frosty vector]

How hard is it go get in the extra global with 636 haste?

[alpine wraith]

quite a bit

[fading saffron]

iirc about 680 is the real cut off, but 700 makes it feel way better and more consistent

[wicked fox]

when you mean extra global, how many should we be able to use with the good amount of haste?

[hazy breach]

8 if your dance is 7.4 seconds

[wicked fox]

well then we don't need that much haste, I have 8 at 612 haste

is there smth I'm missing?

[hazy breach]

Not with coup

Coups global is 1.2s instead of 1s

[wicked fox]

oooohhh that's what I was missing

there were 2 coup there, and no lust/guidon

[wintry heart]

What site is this

[wicked fox]

wowanalyzer

[hazy breach]

Almost certainly not the entire second coup

But you got the cast started ye

[wicked fox]

ok I see, ty

[reef walrus]

it says your dance duration is 7.44 sec though, which iirc is not what the number is at 610 ish haste

[wicked fox]

well on wowlogs it says I'm at 612

[reef walrus]

is that with or without flask/food/oil/whatever?

[wicked fox]

with everything

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/2NRdBqWH1k9yCpQY/1-Heroic+Imperator+Averzian+-+Kill+(3:58)/7-Zayleu/standard/character

oh I believe it's the darkmoon sigil: hunt procs

[reef walrus]

do you have 2? because one shouldn't be enough to get you to 7.44 sec

[wicked fox]

yes I have 2

uh

no

only one sigil we can't have 2

[warm marlin]

imperator is indeed an aberration which gives haste

[wicked fox]

so that kind of explain why I have much better logs on this boss than the others I guess

[warm marlin]

85+612 is 697 haste which is 7.44s of dance

[reef walrus]

I kind of forget the embellishments scale with ilvl

[warm marlin]

gaming on the first dance of the fight though

[warm marlin]

they dont

[reef walrus]

or at least, wowhead doesn't say it's 85

[warm marlin]

got all gcds and coup in in a 7.25s dance

[sharp ravine]

Then miss 2 the dance after that

[warm marlin]

win some lose some

[sharp ravine]

Just get some haste and neglate rng

[wicked fox]

well I missed 3 out of 13 so I guess a bit more haste wouldn't hurt

I just got the guidon tho, idk if it changes anything

[reef walrus]

guidon just makes your dance that you pressed when you have the guidon buff have an extra global

[wicked fox]

well on other bosses I also got some 7.24 all gdcs and coup so I guess if I just imporve a bit I should be fine

[misty jacinth]

Is there any drawback to macroing Secret Technique to Shadow Dance and just forgetting about it?

[warm marlin]

its just difficult to hit consistently

[wicked fox]

so with guidon I should get 9, right?

[sharp ravine]

Yes

[warm marlin]

the recommended number is 680-700, i play 660 or so and i hit all my gcds unless i lose melee uptime

650 was also fine

[wicked fox]

well I don't mind a bit of difficulty on a 2 buttons class

[warm marlin]

just depends on how well you spellqueue

[sharp ravine]

You should do that

[wicked fox]

last question, on the first blade/guidon of the fight, should both shadow dance duration be increased? I only have the second one at 8.44s

[foggy estuary]

You macro sectec to a finisher to hit it as soon as possible without guidon afaik because the window is tight for second sectec during blades

[sharp ravine]

Yes

[warm marlin]

you need to wait 1 second after guidon to press dance

[sharp ravine]

What he said above

[wicked fox]

yeah, I thought I was waiting long enough but apparently I wasn't

[warm marlin]

technically it's a random amount between 0 and 1 second so sometimes you probably did wait long enough

[wicked fox]

cool "feature"

[vagrant sinew]

need 64tick servers like csgo

[vestal relic]

having problem on 1 tick server

and you want 64

[fading saffron]

I usually just Guidon -> Shadowstrike -> Macro

GCD does the thinking for me

[wicked fox]

I'm gonna do that now I guess

[fading saffron]

It makes it more consistent, and lets you not lose out on the few extra seconds you get with the trinket

[hollow spear]

I made my bar change colour at 14.2 seconds

Takes me a bit to react, so I should be at more or less 14

Eventually you have the gcd in your rhythm anyway

It's hard to ween yourself off of the button mashing life

[fading saffron]

Sure, but turning button smashing into sweet apex talent procs

[hollow forum]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[wicked fox]

are the sims up to date? It suggests me to use haste flask instead of mastery flask and ST

[sharp ravine]

Send your sim sir

[wicked fox]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fbuUDdvfwNvDMh6GggBzSg

I just forgot raid buffs

I'm stupid

[swift tinsel]

looks like you're below 600 haste from gear

[fading saffron]

^

[swift tinsel]

586

before oils/flask

[keen yoke]

Hi, sorry for newbie question. In the FAQ suggested macro it doesn't include shadow blades, just dance and ST.. I can't figure out why I wouldn't include it in macro to trigger when I press dance if available

[wicked fox]

yeah but with oils I'm good

[swift tinsel]

that would put you at 618

[misty jacinth]

Is vanish just a free shadowstrike once every 2 mins or is there something more that Im gaining from it that Im missing?

[vocal torrent]

a defensive

depending on boss/situation vanish can be used to break targeted spells etc

or some effects that constitute a snare/root

[wicked fox]

yes, we discussed about it earlier, I just need to get better to be 99% consistent but I hit all gdcs very frequently

[wicked fox]

.

wrong message

[misty jacinth]

Figured.

lol

[wicked fox]

on raid it's mostly that, on M+ it can cancels some casts on you

like the gargoyle on POS, and kickable casts

[misty jacinth]

Yeah im aware of vanish usage in general as a defensive

its the same vanish button on ass

[vocal torrent]

it can also cancel raid boss casts but its situational

[misty jacinth]

was asking about sub specific benefits

[fading saffron]

its a lot of things - free 5CP from shadowstrike, free expose weekness between dances, free energy, free shield (usually) - if you also game it by having 5CP then vanish and use a finishing move, you do 10% more dmg due to Shadow Focus iirc

this is all outside of dances btw, caue being in dance gives you the same effect

[misty jacinth]

Great. Thanks a lot

[fading saffron]

[wicked fox]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[wicked fox]

my sim does it at 3/4 stacks, does it works?

[vestal relic]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[misty silo]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[frosty vector]

On my opener i do 1.56-1.7m dps in first shadow dance. But every top logger i'm looking at is doing between 2.1-2.5m. Does any1 know what i'm doing wrong at the start?
My log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9VyGwAkxYv2mfNn8?fight=21&type=damage-done&source=272

[fair phoenix]

my 20 cents, ur 3 shadow dance is outside the shadow blades right? so need to wait for the secret tenich for supercharges

idk if is the same for st , but if yes, u are doing tecnich without superghcarges alot without the burst

ye i checked is the same

stop doing shadow dance without tecnich

[wicked fox]

that's weird, your first 8.75 dance you're at 1.56 with 9 casts

[fading saffron]

yeah the biggest thing is the desync'd dance/tec casts

[wicked fox]

and your last 8.75 dance you're at 1.92 with 9 casts aswels

[fair phoenix]

yea, and is a big mistake

check this chinese

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/14NBGyDpTJdVAnXC?fight=16&type=casts&source=4&view=timeline

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9VyGwAkxYv2mfNn8?fight=21&type=casts&source=272&view=timeline

thats ur one

[wicked fox]

the chinese one has a 9.16s shadow dance

[fair phoenix]

the only moment u are alowed to do without super charges is on the second shadow dance in the burst moment

cause the biggest focus is to do tecnich last sec gcd on shadow blades + shadow dance

[fading saffron]

yeah - every sectec needs to be sent with a dance, other than blades cast, then you need to 2nd dance with 8 sec remaining on Blades and either sectec 1 - 2 sec afterwards

your vanish useage is awesome tho

great time to use it after 1st burst to rebuild more dmg and points before 4th sectec

though, you typically want to use a finishing move as your first GCD out of it for more dmg, then shadowstrike for 5cp then dance/sectec

at least from my understanding, unless someone had some better/additional insight on using vanish offensively

[keen dome]

🙏

[warm marlin]

common misplay, you didn't crit with any of your 4 sectec clones in pot opener

should try to do that in the future

[swift tinsel]

HUGE

[vale pine]

nicu, congratulations

[keen dome]

Pugged to CE with no voice comm

fucking never doing that again

Well, ""CE""

[warm marlin]

did a gaze drop and did we win it

[fading saffron]

v important question

[lilac stag]

I thought you gave up like 5 6/9 heroic groups ago

[keen dome]

lmao we got 2 boots, 1 chest and 1 non-gaze item

[fading saffron]

carry on, nothing to see here boys

[keen dome]

lmao

I will absolutely take a "yeah, you are average mate" parse

[fading saffron]

shouldve locked in

[vale pine]

geuss you did not pad enough on the adds

[keen dome]

yeah

[warm marlin]

unlucky

[lilac stag]

I mean this is how well our mythic prog went as I’m unloading into single adds our range can’t manage to kill.

[fading saffron]

https://tenor.com/view/akakichi-no-eleven-bro-bad-news-i've-got-bad-news-for-you-hand-on-shoulder-gif-4737126791591033318

[keen dome]

47 pulls to kill him

I guess that's pretty good for a pug

[keen dome]

winning

0 parse kills are absolutely amazing and I love them

I have one of those from Nerubar

[swift tinsel]

my 40something on them while being tied for top boss dmg on my dragon lol

bc I just cast my silly little evisc over bp

[violet palm]

I forgor it's my time to soak and then I ran far far away

[swift tinsel]

my aug arc is on the rise so soon I'll be free from this prison

going from rogue utility to that has given me whiplash

knockback, 2x knockups (more with dupe), poison cleanse, omnicleanse, lust, zephyr

and then some

[hazy breach]

rescue

[swift tinsel]

wish it still gave shield

[dry flame]

i believed from the start

[keen dome]

[hazy breach]

Dont try to get around the filter, its there for a reason
But 10 yards

[swift tinsel]

still nice for the root clear/trolling your ret paladin that hates it

[dry flame]

group finally did kicks

[keen dome]

It's wild, the final groups intermissions were insanely smooth

I stunned first set and they die in the stuns

Also:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/468124640091439105/1493286459254505533/image.png?ex=69de6ae3&is=69dd1963&hm=9380c34c4343cde541d91a8cc539c6ddd3de7026b5c86ffba913d0f77cbd8758&

I think the amount of P1 wipes is funny

[dry flame]

https://giphy.com/gifs/stress-homelander-stresss-5Nle87WgNwDbsj3P4Y

[keen dome]

All around the same time

[dry flame]

the important tihng is that you now get a myth vault slot

[keen dome]

Yep!

And rekills will be easy

[dry flame]

yep, took me 3 pulls this week!

[keen dome]

Pour one out for the poor guy who absolutely blasted on damage but illegal amounts of PI so his log is invalid with a 99

[dry flame]

xDDD

Doesn't matter, you now have a golden ticket to many more groups

after reset

[keen dome]

I can put "CE lead" in my group titles now

And it's only a sorta lie!

[dry flame]

xD

[keen dome]

I assume if i kill Imperator + Voraius now it'll have a chance to give me Chim loot too

(In vault)

[dry flame]

yep!

Although, i feel like with pugs, its harder to kill Vora before group breaks

With Chim, you can always run it first to have 1 boss locked

[keen dome]

Yeah, same.

[frigid prawn]

Damn how long did that take? 😮

[keen dome]

Most of yesterday, most of today. Probably like 15? hours of prog in total.

Although yesterday it was a lot of group hopping. Today was 2 groups (3, one comedy one, but I'm not counting it 'cos we didn't ever pull)

So like, 4 hours in the first group, then I think 3 in this kill group.

[dry flame]

its nice that people stayed long enough to learn the fight

[hollow spear]

You should stream, so we can all hatewatch

[bold crescent]

Is there a specific talent build for simming?

[dry flame]

Depends what you wann sim for

[keen dome]

I was happy to see the morning group got a kill. Saw them listed earlier before I was joining another and they had it dead. I had to drop due to being very hungry.

Morning group had a goat of a raid lead. Super positive, friendly, communiactive.

[bold crescent]

general droptimizer, no patch notes or similar. just what would now be a good upgrade for me. I guess we will still sim full ST

[vale pine]

nice, thats rare

[keen dome]

Ye, he was great. Second group's lead was very bad and angry and not paying attention. Very much a in spite of, not because of haha

[dry flame]

Yeah, you sim Single Target usually, or Dungeon Slice (with Single Target or M+ talents respectfully)

[bold crescent]

Do you have any good ST talent builds? 😄 Otherwise I'm just using fuu's from wowhead

[shadow snow]

when the tank starts pulling is it worth it waiting until all of the are gathered and then start rotation properly?

[modern sentinel]

@keen dome What did they ask for to join that raid grp?

[dry flame]

idk, @vale pine do you have any good ST builds? Otherwise he'll have to use fuu's ons from wowhead

[keen dome]

Good logs / experience. I joined with my message of "Best pull: 13%. No kill yet, but I push buttons"

[modern sentinel]

alright

[vale pine]

haha

[keen dome]

Having an actual note is extremely important. Even if it's something simple.

[bold crescent]

Sorry, I'm just not sure if its the build I should sim with or if there are other builds since the whole tier is adds/cleave

[keen dome]

Just don't do "know strats" 'cos that's awful. You could write the pug strat "Sac tank on final soak, fear interrupts important" etc

[vale pine]

would invite you with that note ^^

[keen dome]

Haha

[vale pine]

"I push buttons" is bis

[keen dome]

People really appreiciate it when you put your best pull in + something else

[dry flame]

yeah, its okay to sim single target with the trickster raid talents for it

[keen dome]

'cos it is always obvious on the first pull if it's bullshit

[bold crescent]

Thank you 🙂 Good loot to everyone! 🙂

[vale pine]

wow is a lot more about experience than people think

[hollow spear]

Know strats ❌
FAIL = KICK ✅

[dry flame]

Sometimes i get invited because of my rogue's name and have to pay with jokes

[vale pine]

knowing a boss can be more relevant than having good parses

[keen dome]

100%

[modern sentinel]

dying=bad

[keen dome]

Inviting on parse alone is bad. You wanna combine it with kills or knowledge. I.e., the guy like me with 70 logs and 5 boss kills is gonna be way better and more consistent than the 99 1 kill guy

[dry flame]

Especially this tier, having not so great log can literally mean you are doing the fight correctly haha

[keen dome]

When both are equally unknowns.

[keen dome]

When I was leading a lot more often in Undermine, my tactic for good group forming was "Write a joke in your note" after my blurb on the group.

Because it meant people read it. I could weed out the weirdos, and it gave people a good vibe.

[dry flame]

;d

[modern sentinel]

We did write your fav twitch/7tv emote before m+

[keen dome]

I remember an Outlaw who applied with "You know why Rogue's like Daggers? They're a fan of knives" or something similar to it

[modern sentinel]

run went well

[keen dome]

Just a great joke

[vale pine]

only if you play subtlety XD

(also hey, let me pad)

[keen dome]

oh my god there's a bug with the voidspire teleport

https://vxreddit.com/r/wow/comments/1sk7wkk/lightguard_paladins/

Sometimes it teleports the Lightblinded to you

[swift tinsel]

hahahahahaahaha

[keen dome]

they have no abilities

lmao

[vale pine]

btw. idk how much m+ you play

[dry flame]

my prog kill log on Myth Chim was much higher than my reclear, even though i did 4-5M more boss dmg - adds get blown up too fast this week, compared to last 😔

[vale pine]

but did you see the snowball trick?

[swift tinsel]

yeah!

super super clever

[keen dome]

no 😮

Do tell

[vale pine]

basically in nexus

[swift tinsel]

I have a bunch in my bank I can use now in npx

[vale pine]

you use a snowball close to when the boss hides

[shrewd lantern]

Honestly if people really wanted to minmax

you'd send less people down on farm

[vale pine]

the projectile is slow, so it moves towards the clone thats real

[shrewd lantern]

and kill chim faster

[keen dome]

oh god that's great

I love it

[vale pine]

so you essentially skip the search

[keen dome]

Yeah

[dry surge]

i fully get that it's a useful minmax but do people just not have functioning eyes in 2026

[spice matrix]

They don’t

[dry flame]

I think you might be right, but too complicated to pug

[keen dome]

Need a macro to with a /yell that goes "TACTICAL SNOWBALL: GO"

[vale pine]

from experience

[dry surge]

you're right my bad

[vale pine]

i would say many don't

[lilac stag]

I’m impressed you found a group willing to stick it out for 50 ish pulls. EU built diffy.

[modern sentinel]

ye saw the snowball thingy this morning in bed

[warm marlin]

it's literally always in the last possible place I check

[keen dome]

Different groups, haha

But yeah

[vale pine]

think people are more willing to spend more pulls early in a patch

try this in 2-3 weeks and group will dispand after a few pulls

[dry flame]

well, raids will get easier with the buff thing, and also probably everything is getting nerfed in the near future

[keen dome]

Yeah

[keen dome]

I had a few groups that would do 1 or 2 pulls and disband.

[dry flame]

im waiting for the Belo Myth nerfs, so i can try pugging it

[keen dome]

It's all about the first pull. If it goes well, people stick around. If you instantly wipe to a VERY basic mechanic, people bail

'cos they don't wanna have to reprog every group

But this is self defeating in a lot of circumstances.

[lilac stag]

I like there’s a no lockout mythic boss

[dry flame]

yep, this week we got Vorasius to 6% on first pull, and then super lame wipes for ~7/8 pulls, but we stuck it out, because it was very close on first

[keen dome]

Yep

[keen dome]

SAME

[dry flame]

I don't even wanna get into it

@keen dome and I have been venting about mythic lockouts to each other for like 2 weeks now

i hate it so much

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

its a bit better this tier

because there are 3 raids

[keen dome]

I think I've been ranting in here about it for two expansions now haha

[tame notch]

Someone posted yesterday about these adamantite stone is it still working?

[dry flame]

make all raids 1 boss ones XD

[vale pine]

yes, seems to still work

can put one on offhand

[keen dome]

They have said 12.1's raid is a full single raid BUT they also said a lairboss is coming in 12.1.5 (Like how we're getting one in 12.0.7)

So at the very least, there'll be Mythic pugging in S2, too

[tame notch]

I thought main hand but ye ill go with off then thanks

[sinful saffron]

Not sure if this is the right place for this question but I can't find a better place. My rogue (Midnight/sub) is currently LW/Skinning. I keep having this lingering doubt gnaw on me that I might be better off dropping those for Alchemy/herbing. (this doubt only gets worse after a full week of skinning the 5 lure mobs once a day and not getting anything worth selling). Any thoughts on this? better to keep lw/skinning or should I make the leap?

[azure relic]

Would anyone be able to help me withj my parse and logs? not sure what im doing wrong in mythics raids to get such a low parse

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fX36Qv8jRtVnd74F?fight=65&type=summary&source=4366

[lucid jackal]

Idrt you need a combo of gathering + spend the resource you gather type deal

Alchemy is really op though eveb just for pve with the longer flask duration

[tepid trellis]

alch is goated tho

longer flasks

and im a cheapo

[sinful saffron]

yeah what i'm thinking. I made 2 armor bits with LW but now it doesn't seem like it has much use

[tepid trellis]

i hate spending gold

[vale pine]

alchemy flask duration is bis

engineering gadgets close after

[lucid jackal]

The crafting gear professions like LW and stuff require you to like, fish for people trying to craft Ur gear

They are insane money but u gotta put in the effort

[dry flame]

drinking pot

[queen plinth]

Does anyone know of any online tools that can look at charts thats up to date for rogue.

[sinful saffron]

So if i'm not the sort of player who likes to sit around 'fishing' in trade chat for crafting, it's kinda sounding like the general consensus seems to be going herb/alc instead might be a good move

[queen plinth]

Wow Analyzer says its outdated.

[dry flame]

Immediate thing that stands out - your 3rd dance is without Secret Technique.
On a few other occasions you don't hit an ST in your Dances
You seem to be de-syncing them

[queen plinth]

I believe im having the same issue https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J18ZvPxDYyL2rpwa?boss=-2&difficulty=0&type=damage-done&source=4

[fading saffron]

Yeah, either not using the Macro or having something to track your energy for you to make sure you have enough for dance/sectec will hurt your dmg pretty heavily

[queen plinth]

Which macro are you talking about?

[fading saffron]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[fading saffron]

The 1st one on the list

[winter niche]

does anyone here have a video of the optimal shadowblades rotation?

[fading saffron]

it allows you to enter dance (which is off the GCD) and immediately sectec

also, having a tracker for energy has helped me a TON in understanding timings and the optimal time to use fillers/builders

[queen plinth]

Ok my thing is we have 2 Charges of Shadow Dance. When Sectec is on CD should we hold the other charge of Dance until that is off CD?

[fading saffron]

Do you have 4p?

[queen plinth]

What tracker are you using? Yes i hav 4P

[fading saffron]

Ideally it would looks like: Guidon -> Shadowstrike -> Blade Macro -> 8sec remaining on blades 2nd SD -> SecTec about 1-2 sec later, then just use dance/sectec together

During blades is the ONLY time you want to stagger your dance/sectec

[fading saffron]

I use Twintop's Resource Bar

[queen plinth]

Ok, So a big issue i think im doing is i am using Shadowstrike then popping Dance and then Blades then Sectec

[fading saffron]

I have a macro with Potion/Racial/Blades/Dance/SecTec on one button, and then another macro for Dance/SecTec on another

[azure relic]

when do i cast blade? before or after the dance macro

or does it not matter

[fading saffron]

Before - so it will case all other spells casted during blades to benefit from its effects

So, if you have Blades going then ShadowDance, you get all of the shadow blade modifiers on top of the "stealthed" modifiers that are built into the sub tree

[queen plinth]

Has anyone else noticed in M+ when your doing aoe and cleave damage that I seemed to do more damage but just using my single target rotation but using Shuriken storm to charge vs backstab or shadow strike i feel like Black powder does less ds

dps

[swift tinsel]

black powder does very good aoe damage

[fading saffron]

you also want to make sure you are using black powder with mobs affected by expose weakness

[swift tinsel]

Find Weakness is a buff now not a debuff

[fading saffron]

[swift tinsel]

with imp storm its up pretty much perma in aoe

plus Silent Storm

[fading saffron]

unless giga unlucky, right? then just send a dance or something

[swift tinsel]

realistically you're going to have it up once you open bc of Silent Storm

and unless you have like...single digit crit on a small pull its going to maintain itself via imp storm

[fading saffron]

crit mastery

[swift tinsel]

bc you get 25% from imp storm and clever combatant

[fading saffron]

(jokes)

[swift tinsel]

alone

and another 5% from deadly precision

[forest moss]

is it possible to sim old consumables?

[fringe lava]

raid lead gave this to me over 2dks for me to floor pov vorasius right after big

[swift tinsel]

huge

[fading saffron]

hap

[harsh gale]

hate the transmog though

[warm marlin]

nah once a pack is like 5 mobs you would have to be ludicrously unlucky to not have it after a single cast

[fading saffron]

hear me out, is there anything in the world that would cause us to drop Finality and take The Rotten

[swift tinsel]

yeah its a chance per hit on any mob hit by storm

probably not

bc you can't drop finality to take dark brew

[fading saffron]

yeah, just edited it

[swift tinsel]

plus rotten/db not that great

[warm marlin]

rotten is mega nerfed from what it used to be

[swift tinsel]

and taking damage out of bp via finality for that would be a pretty oof tradeoff

in keys

[fringe lava]

my usual transmog is even worse

my guild calls me their make a wish rogue

[fading saffron]

no no, just talking for raid encounters with small add count, mb shouldve been specific

but yeah, nvm - pretty hard hit in DPS dropping finality 1/2

[warm marlin]

it's more arguable in st and even then it's like 5% eviscerate damage for 35% on 2 shadowstrikes per dance

the math isnt good for it and only gets worse with ilvl

[plush roost]

Youve abandoned blue...

[warm marlin]

I was inspired when i saw you were red

[plush roost]

Red with trickster is kinda aura no?

[sweet moss]

at 700 ish haste breakpoint is mastery and crit just better

[warm marlin]

also i think this sums up my thoughts on rogue atm

[fading saffron]

hmm.. just thought youd get more of out of it with apex and gaming it, but i guess not

[alpine wraith]

it was like that a bit but they nerfed some things

[warm marlin]

my ddh hit level 90 and got itself a 10 yesterday

aug/dk soon to come

[swift tinsel]

aug has been fun ngl

[keen dome]

even me

[fading saffron]

F

[ember frost]

how is deathstalker comperd to trickster in ST? should i be deathstalker or tricks vs 2nd boss in voidstorm raid?

[swift tinsel]

you have so many tools to play with

[warm marlin]

I played a bit of aug in tww1

It was okay

[fading saffron]

same

[swift tinsel]

It feels a lot more streamlined atp

and your lil dupe friend is neat

[sweet moss]

just go trickster its easier and they pmuch the same

[swift tinsel]

not needing to micromanage prescience/might also makes it a pure vibe

[warm marlin]

what if that was what was fun

[swift tinsel]

I mean you still absolutely can

[ember frost]

Ok ty 🙂

[swift tinsel]

and you're rewarded for doing so

well, your group is

[warm marlin]

It'll be good to play a proper burst spec

[keen dome]

I hope they return the burst to us.

[swift tinsel]

talking ddh?

[warm marlin]

no aug lol

with chrono

[forest moss]

Apparenty surv hunters are using https://www.wowhead.com/item=23529/adamantite-sharpening-stone is that something that would benefit us?

[swift tinsel]

ah I think they're all playing scale in keys atm

[hazy breach]

Yes

[swift tinsel]

haven't really dabbled in chrono much as aug just pres

[warm marlin]

its a 0.5% gain on mainhand

[hoary lotus]

How bad is sub in aoe with like 100 mastery

[forest moss]

stone on main and oil on off?

[warm marlin]

ye

[warm marlin]

we might be playing a 2min comp

[forest moss]

ty

[jade oasis]

i pvp

[swift tinsel]

oh ye that'd be huge then

[vale pine]

works for us too, we expected it to get fixed but was missed so far

[swift tinsel]

I need more haste though I'm at like 12% so my Eruption casts feel like an eternity

and have babby crit atp

ebon might uptime fighting for its life

[sweet moss]

whats name of one we use?

[jade oasis]

you’re better off just spectating the dungeon

[sweet moss]

Refuldgent whetstone?

weightstone

[sweet moss]

or legiut usign this one>

[vestal escarp]

Oh yeah btw

[warm marlin]

its that one from tbc

[vestal escarp]

Demon hunder specs

[sweet moss]

ah rly ty mate^^

[vestal escarp]

Hdh and Ddh

It's fucking cholesterol

[sullen spruce]

guys is it normal that my sims are higher with crit flask and umbral plume ?

i thought mastery was bis for sub

[strong crypt]

Are you simming for one target ?

[sullen spruce]

yh

[livid cape]

1380 is the diminishing return cap. Are you close to that?

[azure thicket]

you hit so often high crit rating adds up

[sullen spruce]

if i use flask yh

mastery flask

[ornate lake]

Is there anything as useless as goremaw's bite in the entire rogue class and spec trees?

Sepsis was removed so why is goremaw still a thing lmao?

[swift tinsel]

in-office joke at Blizz HQ surely

[ornate lake]

Unironically

[swift tinsel]

I still maintain that they have a counter for whenever someone complains about it still existing and whenever it reaches 100 they get free coffee from Dunkin

[azure thicket]

they probably paste new stuff on to goremaws as a test bench

[swift tinsel]

so they always get free coffee from Dunkin

[ornate lake]

Sylvanas dagger special effect when

[azure thicket]

barman's shank but not awful

idk what sylvanas's dagger be doing lol

[ornate lake]

Shadow damage dot that ramps up the longer the target lives or the lower the target HP gets

It used to be like 7-8% of our damage in shadowlands

Good times man. 3 min blades and flag which gives aids...I mean haste.

[azure thicket]

ye sounds like fun uptime

only thing i could complain about compared to dragonflight raids to now

is how doing mechanics feels like jail rn

you're not catching the dude who got rng passed 2-3 times for the not dying mechanic

if they're the same skill/apm level

you just gotta be their -4k shadow etc

[wraith sphinx]

im continuing my war on survival hunters

[swift tinsel]

this would be such a layup capstone talent I stg

like easiest win

ever

[ornate lake]

Assa one trick guys would firebomb blizzard HQ if that happened though

Execute is the only niche of assa

[swift tinsel]

yea they really do need all the dmg niches across all rogue specs

[orchid laurel]

sub rogue has decent cleave right ?

[ornate lake]

Okayish, but only in dance.

[swift tinsel]

shell of its former cleave

[ornate lake]

Outside it's poopoo

[orchid laurel]

like its good in dreamrift phases right

[swift tinsel]

we're big sustained aoe enjoyers now

[queen plinth]

Did survival get a damage buff because i was top of the raid charts last week and after tuesday now i get beat by them by a few thousand

[dark marten]

yeah

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/2zoLgckxd9FxDgx6gD

[orchid laurel]

yeah idk the rogues in my guild are parsing awfully and saying they have no cleave

might be a brain issue

[hazy breach]

I mean subs cleave is the worst in the game (or atleast bottom 3)

But their parses are against all other sub rogues so

[orchid laurel]

yeah so they are just coping then

[dusky yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/grimace-clint-eastwood-gran-torino-yuck-eww-gif-4412827

[swift tinsel]

some fights you're just not gonna parse well if you can't Embrace the Cheese

(padding)

[shrewd lantern]

its not padding they have to die

[orchid laurel]

true

[swift tinsel]

it is if your damage isn't meaningfully contributing to their death

[warm marlin]

are you having issues with the little guys not being broken out fast enough or something

i barely have time to press 2 gcds once they're grouped

[orchid laurel]

no basically my rogue is doing no damage in raid

was thinking i could help him out and learn the spec for him

[unique tiger]

Hey guys need help for someone to look at my gear quick, I am conquest capped, got every single bis enchant, gem etc.. I just feel I still haven't hit 500-600 haste

[hollow spear]

If they're parsing very low on Vorasius as well, it might be a krill issue

Otherwise it could also be a lack of pad

What do their boss parses look like?

[left ledge]

NO

WE DO NOT HAVE CLEAVE

It was deleted basically

You only cleave autos, unseen, and coup

So basically FUCK ALL

[orchid laurel]

🥷

[left ledge]

This spec went from such op cleave that my guild BANNED ME FROM STANDING NEAR MOBS IN P1 DIM

[orchid laurel]

on vorasius

[left ledge]

TO THIS DOGSHIT

[orchid laurel]

outlaw might be better lowks

[dusky yacht]

Petition to kick this guy

[dark marten]

Aye

[left ledge]

Just play assa

[orchid laurel]

truth bomb

[spice matrix]

Lmao preach

[chrome palm]

Outlaw cleave is also bad

[left ledge]

It’s unreal how much they fucked up with trickster

[chrome palm]

Rogue simply does not cleave well on any spec

[left ledge]

Colossal fumble

[orchid laurel]

big cope lowks

[shrewd lantern]

i stand in city like npc

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is mega solid in march tbqh

Its mainly voidspire that we stink at (and only really the last 2 bosses)

(which are the hard ones but)

[swift tinsel]

is one of the specs good at egg burn?

thought that was a big negative checkmark

[lucid jackal]

Sub is not bad at burn, especially if u make a puzzlebox setup

[swift tinsel]

haven't looked into it much tbh

[warm marlin]

from what I have heard, the egg burn is kinda mid but you're an immune

[swift tinsel]

ah ye true

[lucid jackal]

^

Yeah u need immunes, rogue is an immune

[warm marlin]

you'd rather play rogue than mage for example

[lucid jackal]

Its decently tanky

damage is solid, nothing insane

Its very consistent

Like DK can do more but DK is mega swingy on egg damage tbqh

[swift tinsel]

Just saw a fair few log screenshots of it being quite low during that phase

[lucid jackal]

And like I said, if u do a puzzlebox setup, it's not bad

[warm marlin]

orcs rise up

i foresaw this outcome

🔮

[swift tinsel]

meanwhile I'm vibing with my 2x black hole hearthstones

[warm marlin]

ah that's what the alt gets

[swift tinsel]

delver's journey rank 10 hearthstone my favorite ever

[warm marlin]

velf glamour has been going hard recently though

idk why my human model got a lot worse when i race changed

[swift tinsel]

I like the female worgen personally

[warm marlin]

maybe need to mess with barber stuff

[swift tinsel]

or undead

Need to make a Spymaster transmog though

getting a little tired of the purple thing I got going on atm

[warm marlin]

there is a certain purple sword from mfo I've been using

[orchid laurel]

rogue is actually undercover op

ngl

[warm marlin]

it's kind of blunt so doesn't fit the dagger animations so well but it looks cool

some int weapon