subtlety

[left ledge]

[north garnet]

Burn me alive bit i dont like aoe blind xD

[left ledge]

we have went through different phases of getting good and bad changes

it has not been consistent

if you mean it has been inconsistent sure

[shrewd lantern]

no one called it funnel back then

[left ledge]

but that doesnt really add much

[shrewd lantern]

every brainlet just hopped on the name due to m+ streamers

braindead behavior

[left ledge]

im not surprised that we are in such a bad state

im just once again disappointed

[lilac stag]

legion literally flip flopped. Bfa completely toast. SL had some abysmal shit.

[left ledge]

am i not allowed to be disappointed

ive put over a decade into this spec specifically

[lilac stag]

be whatever you want to be

[keen dome]

A rogue tank?

[left ledge]

thats outlaw

[north garnet]

Warden when?

[red flame]

can i be #1 on the meters?

[vagrant fulcrum]

Atleast you picked the right spec

Sub has felt default for every expac since df

[lilac stag]

2v2 arena with a healer, maybe

[left ledge]

dude i even was playing this spec in bfa

and i had fun with it in bfa

it was abysmal DOGSHIT

but it was fun

now i feel a soulcrushing emptiness as i do anything on sub

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[fiery fog]

df s3 was very assa focused until ppl realised how strong dust sub actually can be for the raid xd

[vale pine]

subtlety was default for early progression

[lilac stag]

continue getting soul crushed or take a vacation.

[vale pine]

assassination for m+ or guilds that did not clear mythic early

[lilac stag]

they don’t fucking care

[red flame]

can i have my cake & eat it too?

[lilac stag]

The more you care, the worse it gets.

[red flame]

what if i wanna get my soul crushed while im on vacation

did you ever consider that

[lilac stag]

This is a family discord.

[fiery fog]

but i think most can agree that sub is just too simple rn
we went from one of the more complicated specs to a very dumbed down one

but the game in general feels very simple

or most classes rather

[vale pine]

warlocks and dh's are the right place then

[cunning iron]

Hey, i'm a new Subtlety rogue here 😛

[vale pine]

did hear both love to play with souls

[fiery fog]

my condolences

[untold elk]

how much you would consider good ST damage in a m+ boss? sure, depends on the boss but let's say something like the 1st pit of saron

[fiery fog]

200k would be good

[vale pine]

welcome, hope you like it

also don't worry, we are not always this negative

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/run-away-tcfreer-get-away-leave-me-alone-gif-22613452

[fiery summit]

They had such a lack of ideas to make the new spec (devourer) interesting that they had to bring all the others specs down to its simplicity, just my opinion cause I find dev boring - satisfying effects and whatnot but boring

[untold elk]

ehehe

[fiery summit]

I kind of think they were worried the addon purge would make the game too hard so they dumbed specs down so people had less to worry about their rotations

[vale pine]

I think its not a lack of ideas

but rather a direction of the game

midnight simplifies things, and with that

[fiery summit]

Possibly yeah

[red flame]

they prob looked at how Outlaw was w needing WA & were like yea nuke every spec, no more of that shi

[vale pine]

makes the design space smaller

[fiery summit]

Actually yeah you might be on the money there, started with single button then flowed onto everything being simpler

[red flame]

1br was the start of the end

[fiery summit]

I wonder if a push for controller support also contributed to it

[red flame]

i never understood the ppl who are hellbent on using controllers for pc games

like

just use the keyboard & mouse

it aint that hard ffs

[swift tinsel]

I like it for dark souls/elden ring

[vale pine]

i am honest

[fiery summit]

“How do we support controller for all these technical specs? Dumb the specs down, ez”

[vale pine]

i kinda want to try out playing on a controller

[red flame]

id say that prob the most valid but even then i use keyboard + mouse

[vale pine]

doing a 12 or so

with guild

[red flame]

i also use a Razer Naga tho & bind most of the shi to it

so its easier w an mmo mouse fs

[vale pine]

i don't think a low button count is inherently bad

like league of legends also only has 4(5) abilities

[fiery summit]

At least you’d only need two buttons for controller

[vale pine]

and 2 summoner spells

still manages to create quite a good gameplay depth

[red flame]

when i think of WoW with controller it reminds me of the Asmongold Arms Warr dps guide from HFC

Arms Warr on the N64 controller

[vale pine]

shooter typically only have movement keys + mouse buttons

[fiery summit]

I tried playing league on a drum controller once, played Darius, had to slam the snare to ult, kinda fun

[fiery fog]

you also have so many options that are correct to do

[vale pine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcYF0HB2nSk

[fiery fog]

with sub you have your rotation and its always the same

[mossy spruce]

On logs, what is the "eviscerate, - ancient arts"?
My damage is lacking hard on that specific point. Am I doing a poor job proccing ancient arts?

[vale pine]

^ a german streamer played league of legends with milkshakes

which is (even if you are not german) quite entertaining

[mossy spruce]

Should I be looking at sending builders at high CP more often?

[vale pine]

you have certain decisions, but it got worse compared to tww

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[vale pine]

you only rly do that

and thats basically only for your 2nd finisher in dance

[red flame]

so only on the 1st if you have dance + sectec macroed right? since the sectec fires instantly on macro

only for that initial evisc in dance

[vale pine]

ye its like this

you dance + secret

[hollow spear]

Yeah, you're saying the same thing

[red flame]

word ty

[vale pine]

then strike (typically)

and evaluate if you strike a 2nd time for aa

the optimization sounds difficult, but isn't that insane

[red flame]

heard

[fiery summit]

You’re not supposed to sec on AA though right? Cause the clones don’t benefit or something

[vale pine]

thats fine

[hollow spear]

If you go into dance sectec with like 2 sht stacks, you're getting the optimisation for free

[vale pine]

you just won't force it

like

if you are on full cp because you stopped using finishers roughly 3 sec before secret came up

you won't do dance + strike into secret

to trigger the aa optimization

if aa is up, and secret/dance is

its perfectly fine to dance-secret with aa

just don't go out of your way to get aa on secret

[wicked fox]

what's secret?

[vale pine]

secret technique

[red flame]

sectec

[vale pine]

the finisher

[wicked fox]

oh yeah

[hollow spear]

Shhh

[wicked fox]

forgot the whole name lmao

[hollow spear]

It's a secret

[vale pine]

this one

[fiery summit]

Oh right idk why I was under the impression to send a evis with aa up to spend it before secreting

[red flame]

my fault og

i forgor

[hollow spear]

Stop spilling the beans

[keen dome]

angry face man ability

[hollow spear]

My beloved

[red flame]

idk looks more like a sly smirk to me

[vale pine]

you don't rly want to do that

[keen dome]

Do you think he's friends with

[vale pine]

because you delay your dance

[red flame]

lowkey

they're bffs

[vale pine]

e.g. you typically stop using finishers when secret comes up

[fiery summit]

Valid point

[vale pine]

this is also because if you do

you need to build up combo points

[ripe flame]

That's just Dave when he pops SB

[hollow spear]

I loved sectec the most on the first boss of rookery

[vale pine]

and if you finish just as secret comes up

you might need to wait 4 or 5 sec

before you have enough cp again

[keen dome]

What about

[fiery summit]

Thus delaying dance

[fiery fog]

thats his little brother

[fiery summit]

I see

[hollow spear]

That's Dave sniffing glue

[wicked fox]

so if we have dance and sectec macroed together, the aa optimisation is on the second finisher right?

[hollow spear]

Correction: that's Dave contemplating if he likes the result of his MBTI test

[red flame]

Dave keeping his hands warm on a cold winter day

[ripe flame]

Dave after his skull fracture

[red flame]

me after getting the shitty Chimaerus trinket in my hero cache:

[ripe flame]

(He was practicing his death from above and hit a wall)

[dry flame]

https://giphy.com/gifs/jjk-itadori-yuji-ltXRHWVSNDKNP63uNF

this is the vibe i get from that icon

whenever i see it

[hollow spear]

Oh, he's an ENFP then?

[keen dome]

fuck

god

hate

[hollow spear]

I can't

[keen dome]

I'm gonna start posting papers

nobody wants that

[red flame]

rolling papers are the best kind of papers

[hollow spear]

I tried to read the papers my fiancee wrote, but I'm not smart enough

[keen dome]

The actual test (as far as I know I've not looked at trait theory for years) is OCEAN, which I have other issues with but at least it's rooted in, you know, actual scientific understanding

[mental saffron]

Does Coup count as a unique attack in terms of Dance Macabre? Or does it count as an Evis

[solar mural]

can we use Shadow blades on pull on HC Beloren?

[sharp ravine]

Any MiniCC user that know if we can move Friendly CD out of raidframe and do a list like OmniCD or BlizzInterrupt ?

[sharp ravine]

Yes

Do a !log @mossy spruce

[undone ridge]

who is using misdirect?

and do you have a macro to make life easier?

[lilac stag]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[undone ridge]

iwanna start using it when playing with fat tanks that move slowly

[undone ridge]

❤️

[mossy spruce]

!log

[undone ridge]

do u use it?

[mossy spruce]

Yep, sry!

[vagrant fulcrum]

That’s implicit in the default comment, as in it is the go to normally, which it is until they tune assassination with buffs and subs lack of sustained dps gets exposed / bursting adds isn’t as valued

And I want to be clear, there is resentment there - I’m tired of always having people questioning assassination on repeat because the population is pushed into sub

[lean sigil]

doing some changes to my gear, guide sais 18% haste but i have always done about 700, how perfect do i need to be to run lower?

[vale pine]

i mean

looking at some seasons

the first bosses often did not benefit subtlety

which means, guilds who attempting them ended up with more assassination players

so the log count was even assassination favored

[grave cradle]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[vale pine]

this means, once guilds reached the harder bosses

playing assassination was often still the best choice

this kind of is why you can argue there to be diffrent circumstances depending on the speed of progression

balance mid/late patch is less relevant if you don't progress, but farm at that point

while it is when you are still in the middle of progression

[fading saffron]

so, send all stonks to sin?

[vale pine]

for this patch, don't think it makes a diffrent

all rogue specs seem similar, sin was the only spec which got a clear buff, so technically might be now prefered

tho rogue kinda not great this tier

[fading saffron]

rerolled rogue this xpac/tier, and have some pretty large aspirations - DMs open for some questions?

[vagrant fulcrum]

Ask here, I’d take DMs but going out after this sandwich, I’ll answer what I can

[vale pine]

you can dm me with questions if you don't feel comfortable asking in public

but we have many nice people in here who can give you answers ^^

[swift tinsel]

Not me I’m a meanie 😠

[keen dome]

same

bad to the bone

[fading saffron]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/area-52/terror?difficulty=5

These are my logs, with the most recent being the Mythic Averzian kill, other than the tail end of the fight where I botched some CD line ups with sectec and stuff.

1st tier playing rogue, and really enjoying it and feel like im playing pretty well, but, wondering what I can do to push over the edge even more, and excel in the class

[keen dome]

Hell yeah enjoying rogue

[fading saffron]

though, i know rogue is hard to push into the upper echelon, cause well, good rogues are REALLY good rogues

[lilac stag]

Give it another month

[swift tinsel]

I’ve been workshopping what to swap to off rogue but it’s just an affirmation that they all kinda fall flat

[vale pine]

do !log, it will open a channel for a log review

[fading saffron]

!log

[swift tinsel]

Gonna give Aug more of a go with guild keys

Miserable in pugs

[lilac stag]

This is midnight. I won’t argue sub feels like it’s missing something. I also won’t agree that anything else actually feels better or more rewarding to play.

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it’s no secret I’m not enjoying the expansion across the board

[merry barn]

Hi, is there a website or something like this were i can find when we can use the shroud for m+ ?

[lilac stag]

Just the hard crash outs of late

[lilac stag]

No where

[fading saffron]

im in the same stance where the xpac isnt totally enjoyable, but, its one of the main reasons im pushing myself to set a probably very unrealistic goal to try and achieve idk

[fading whale]

whats the diff between planned execution and other talent choice

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, I really wanted to give the raid and the season a try on multiple specs to see if it was just a class experience but it’s pretty ubiquitously unenjoyable for me

[merry barn]

fck its only knowledge ahah ?

[lilac stag]

Unless some random ass mdt route with a rogue, almost every elite mob has truesight and those that don’t aren’t worth skipping

[swift tinsel]

Im probably gonna talk to RL this weekend

[merry barn]

indeed you're right, thx for the answer tho !

[swift tinsel]

Blizz is pretty anti-shroud when it comes to skipping mobs you’d actually want to skip

Which basically negates it as ‘utility’

[fiery fog]

the only thing i can think of that is skippable are the 2 mobs in front of the last boss in academy

[lilac stag]

Your raid progression honestly would kill me. Hell even ours gets to me at times.

[swift tinsel]

It’s frustrating and magnified even more so because there’s three raids

Idk if we’re gonna finish heroic March

Or even start lol

We’re jumping into mythic Thursday assuming we finish hc spire

[lilac stag]

Dungeons these days are mostly just press W to try to get more tanks

[north garnet]

With Platynator, you know the protected cast the banshee mob does in Windrunner spire or the Gargolye kidnap in pit of Saron.

The default Blizz Ui greys out the cast until you break the shield so that you are able to kick it. How do i set this up in Platynator?

[swift tinsel]

But idk what the goal is for March

Since we only cleared normal once

[merry barn]

cool mechanic lol

[lilac stag]

Well having more tanks than less is a W

Most people just want to kill shit and collect loot. Not travel plan a road trip from Washington to Orlando Florida

[swift tinsel]

We also have I think four people who haven’t progression raided ever before so there’s some humps to get over

[stone quiver]

!log

[lilac stag]

You honestly need to guild move, which I think we talked about last tier.

[merry barn]

ahah sure i understand but if there were skippable packs that would grants 15-20sec that would be great without being gamebreaker

[lilac stag]

The 3/8-5/8 life is rough

[red flame]

so real

[merry barn]

but as you said if blizzy dont like it, its doomed

[lilac stag]

And now you need to spend 15-20 secs finding percent.

[keen dome]

I always find this pretty rewarding when they can be helped to become the best they can be

But it's a lot of work, esp if people just aren't cut for higher end raiding

[lilac stag]

We have so many people crash out on boss 6

[keen dome]

[lilac stag]

I get why we have 28 starting the tier, but it’s always down to 20-22 by boss 7

[north garnet]

As long as poeple genuinely want to learn and put time into it

[lilac stag]

Trying to learn in a progression environment is extremely difficult. If you’re “wasting” prog time not only do you feel bad, you can deflate the entire team. Guild hoping to learn to go from 3/8 to CE feels mandatory. Are there exceptions? Of course.

Reminds me of minor league baseball system. Have to progress up to the big leagues

And even then you can fall flat on your face

[vale pine]

guild hopping makes the enviroment around lower (late) cutting edge guilds terrible

just my 2c

[lilac stag]

I’m in a lower ranked CE guild. It doesn’t affect us but maybe 1 player getting sniped or looking to leave each tier.

[swift tinsel]

It’s been a definite roadblock in hc cosmos because they’re all ranged and can pretty easily throw a wrench in the fight if they flub mechanics

[keen dome]

Oh noo

Yeah

Big problems

[lilac stag]

Roster burn out, especially at 3/8 - 7/8 is way more detrimental.

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, and thankfully we keep the attitude in call pretty upbeat and they’re all pretty coachable for the most part, but you can absolutely tell there’s personal frustration on their part

[lilac stag]

We had a player leave to chase hof. They left as we started NK prog. They got CE during trial. Now they are basically perma bench.

[keen dome]

I wish people would spend a bit more time studying fight mechanics and resolutions to them.

[lilac stag]

over estimated their skill

[keen dome]

Esp at heroic level

Because it translates to higher difficulty very well

[vale pine]

fair

[plush roost]

I sometimes miss my wr1000 guild

[swift tinsel]

I think we’ve only ever had one or two people leave to chase CE but usually it’s the opposite problem

[plush roost]

Many memories were made on broodtwister

[swift tinsel]

Folks wanting to commit less

We’re WR5000something and it’s super chill most of the time

[lilac stag]

It’s comfy. Majority of us are all friends. The 5 or so last raid spots are the wildcards

[swift tinsel]

I toyed with looking for a CE guild or raid group but I think that part of my aspirations is permanently gone

[lilac stag]

You’d get it back after seeing actual prog

Quicksand prog is deflating

[plush roost]

Ye i was the wild card for 3 guilds straight till i went from last week CE fyrakk to HoF guild

[keen dome]

I'd like to do it but it's the schedule stuff I dislike. And knowing that it's very hard to find an ideal match. Either I'll be better and get frustrated or worse and get frustrated.

[plush roost]

Beeg jump but sometimes u gotta jump if u like hard content.

[swift tinsel]

Idk like I know I’d absolutely enjoy being in a group that takes preparation and learning from pull to pull more seriously

[lilac stag]

I also get I’m an affix in and of myself so I have no desire to move into more demanding prog

[swift tinsel]

But idk how much more I’d enjoy it

[lilac stag]

Likely a lot, but if you don’t try you’ll never know

[keen dome]

Finding the right vibe is the hardest part.

[left ledge]

this depends on the boss and if your guild is actually going to prepare and learn

ive been in a top 100 guild for a bit

we consistenly have people ego bosses

its not fun

maybe 1-2 bosses a season are fun

but usually its the end boss, and usually blizz guts the fuck out of them after rwf

[jade urchin]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[left ledge]

only reason i continue raiding is because i like my guild

[lilac stag]

3/8 prep to CE prep is basically better raid planning by 2-3 people and watch a video

[left ledge]

^

our planning is basically just a handful of people

then some people watch and read up

and some others dont do shit

[lilac stag]

on a good day, everyone watches the same video

[fast maple]

Ain't happening dawg unless you Wana raid most of your days etc, most raids go like this. You learn a mechanic after a couple of pulls then you gota wait 100-200 pulls for Jimmy to catch on

[left ledge]

we dont raid most days

[fast maple]

Rinse and repeat for each mechanic

[left ledge]

so it really depends on your guild

i would suggest just looking for a guild with people you like that fits your schedule

[fast maple]

Just join project they only raid 7 days/week

[swift tinsel]

Me currently

[keen dome]

One of my most dreaded Pug experiences is a raid lead going "Watch video for boss" and it's.. okay but which. And then you wipe 'cos everybody is doing stuff slightly differently lol

[north garnet]

The worst is when the few other commited people are absent or leaving

[left ledge]

you can push top 200 for sure at like 2-3 days a week

[lilac stag]

Progging is easy when there are upgrades for gear since you feel like you’re moving the needle. When you hit “raid extend” is when the mental shows itself.

[left ledge]

this is the reason why i enjoy split raids tbh

[vale pine]

thats true

[lilac stag]

the lower the guild, the worse the extend is

[left ledge]

because when we prog lura

we wont have to miss out on loot

[vale pine]

a lot of people stop once gear upgrades become less common

[north garnet]

My Dragonflight S1 cutting edge died on Dathea after we tried raid extending

[keen dome]

Ooh, Dathea

that's a rough one

[lilac stag]

Not doing splits on a 2 day schedule. Instant unsub

[swift tinsel]

We always drop people after the first week of mythic prog

Have people drop*

If we ever start doing splits I’m done lol

Full time delve main

[keen dome]

Come to the EU and form the Puglord Community with me

[swift tinsel]

I’ll hop the pond in no time lol

[dry flame]

probably the best season to be one XD
You can farm hero track gear pretty much

[lilac stag]

Dathea. Haha had a rogue crash out mid raid night swore we’d never kill it or get ce. Killed it 2 pulls after they left the raid / gquit

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I finished Journey and have gotten a bunch of hero track on alts from the bountiful chests

The hearthstone is hands down my favorite ever probably

223 away from the 1k delve achieve, big slackin

[lilac stag]

I still only have 1 90.

[keen dome]

These are always the funniest ones

[swift tinsel]

Lmao I just need hunter priest and paladin til I have everything at 90

[lilac stag]

I know an alt isn’t goin to make me enjoy this shit any more than I do now

[swift tinsel]

Oh and shaman ig

Wish the xp boost from # of 90’s was uncapped lol

[lilac stag]

I will vibe on sub

maybe bliz fixes us

[keen dome]

My major annoyance is just MythChim pugging. Otherwise I'm vibing

[lilac stag]

Maybe they don’t

[main falcon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3a2a8S39ErEnu4dvJipTUT

Can someone explain why a crafted 285 Offhand dagger over a 250 ilvl one is only giving me 198 DPS?

And in Singletarget, it's a 662 DPS loss?!

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2pjtTndcWxyCR9XoX6o5ns

[warm marlin]

offhand is a literal garbage tier slot and you probably need the haste from thorn

[lilac stag]

OH Don’t matter and you’re missing haste

[vale pine]

dagger has a high attack speed

[main falcon]

Alright, ty

[vale pine]

so you generate a lot more ressources from sht

thats why you always want to use 2x daggers

[lilac stag]

A green dagger in oh if it gets me to 685 haste is getting equipped

[warm marlin]

offhand is the worst slot to be clear, worse than bracers/cloak for dps per ilvl

[lilac stag]

Unless you’re a pirate

[vale pine]

its mostly bad because of dual weilding penalties

[lilac stag]

Then oh matters apparently.

[vale pine]

which means the damage of it is reduced because its in the offhand

[fading whale]

fuu whats the diff between these 2

seen some run 1 some other

[main falcon]

I'm at 16.02% haste, should i better craft an item with haste/mastery? So ring would be the best choice i guess?

[swift tinsel]

Ddh wants a beefy offhand wep which is funny for a dw spec

[warm marlin]

offhand is good for intellect

[swift tinsel]

Ye

They’re just not the traditional actual Offhand slot

[lilac stag]

Percents don’t matter. Number matters

[swift tinsel]

And can’t use 2h staves

[plush roost]

Pe is like 1% better aoe worse ST and just pure pad

So china loves it

!

[fading whale]

ye!!!!

who doesnt love some good pad

[hollow spear]

It's important to do 606k dps on the first pull instead of 600k

[hallow mortar]

everytime i see your avatar i think about china or asia 😄

[hollow spear]

And then do 80k on the boss instead of 90k

[fading whale]

roguified monk

[lilac stag]

just pull everything into boss

[hollow spear]

I think the amount you need for pe to be worth it is quite huge

Amount of mobs I mean

Which spec do you guys think is the most fun to play right now, not taking balance into account? Any dps spec, not only rogue.

[lilac stag]

I had fun on beta with SV

[swift tinsel]

If Fists of Fury was 1.5 sec shorter it’d be WW

[lilac stag]

Pets are still annoying

[swift tinsel]

But feels like you’re channeling for an eternity

I like affliction though now that they made aoe agony application less annoying

The old way of refreshing them and then two seconds later Vile Taint is off cd and can mass-apply agony was so tilting

[vale pine]

they can be, arthas can be very vocal if he wants to go outside but the door is closed

[swift tinsel]

Steve when he wants to use me as a jungle gym when I’m in my computer chair

[vale pine]

haha, the classic

[swift tinsel]

Do you use a leash with him or just let him roam outside?

[lilac stag]

Watching our hunters pets turn into lemmings on Vora and not being able to be recalled, ressed or resummoned was almost tragically hilarious where our dos check was

[vale pine]

we have a outside area, so its not rly "outside" but an enclsure

[swift tinsel]

Ohhh nice nice

[real panther]

how big is this? If I just ignore, what the % diff?

[swift tinsel]

I want to build something like that for mine but the apartment complex does not like built enclosures/garden beds/etc

So I have small dog harnesses and leashes that I take them out on when it’s nice lol

So many sniffs to be had

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[swift tinsel]

Edith haaaaaaaates her harness though so she typically watches from the patio door lol

[vale pine]

which means, he basically goes "outside" through the balcony door, and through a bridge into the enclosure (and in the enclosure can go down to the grass, we have a tree in it and also some bamboo/reed)

[swift tinsel]

Awe that sounds great!

[keen dome]

That rules

[swift tinsel]

Do they chew grass too?

[vale pine]

we build it with my gf, the cats love it

they do ^^

[swift tinsel]

Haha it’s so funny to watch, Steve will do that and then start digging

[vale pine]

its great in the summer, tho we also made a small grass area on the balcony too with grass

[swift tinsel]

He tries to eat rocks sometimes though so we have to discourage that

[vale pine]

so the cats can cool down laying in the grass/dirt, under the bamboo/etc

[vale pine]

towards leash, its technically illegal here to go out with a leash on a cat

[swift tinsel]

You’ve got three, right?

[vale pine]

we still do it sometimes

[vale pine]

yes

[swift tinsel]

Oh really? That’s interesting

There’s a handful of people here that walk their cats outside

One of my friends has a cat carrier on wheels she takes hers on walks in lol

[vale pine]

depends on the law, tho it feels like a law thats not enforced here

(also nobody would assume its illegal, so)

[keen dome]

😻

[swift tinsel]

I wonder if it came about because of a specific incident lol

[vale pine]

possible

[lilac stag]

It’s 1.5% to ignore it. Significantly more in priority target dmg. It’s not difficult to play around.

[hollow vessel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cloud barn]

is haste less important in keys? or do we still want to aim for 18%ish

trying to bring up my vers

[alpine wraith]

there are setups with 200 haste and full mastery/crit

but those people play with good tanks and groups where they specifically pull bigger and onto bosses

it will do less st by quite a bit

[cloud barn]

i aint trying to sacrifice THAT much haste gah dam

we do want higher vers for higher keys right?

to reduce dmg taken? or is it insignificant

[lilac stag]

healers job. 700 haste. Get mastery & crit

use feint

meld and vanish to drop cast targeting you

[cloud barn]

that's what im sayingggg

my stats are really good but ive been wondering if i need more vers to help these pug healers

but if it's not going to do anything

i'll go back to my juicy stats

[steady sail]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[steady sail]

Heya, if I have 7 cp & 5+ stacks of shadow techniques and have blades/dance/sectech available is it worth getting apex up first or better to not delay?

Or is that saying only when shadow dance is already running, not when it's off CD

[hazy breach]

Yes up in this case means active

[glass kelp]

second sectec during blades windows... send or wait until fresh dance?

[chilly dagger]

id say fresh dance, otherwise clones miss on dance

[glass kelp]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[spice kelp]

Hey all, hoping to get some advice on macros. I saw in the faq you don’t want to macro in your trinket into shadow dance, but I also see macroing in secret techniques with shadow dance. I also see that you want to hit shadow blades after shadow dance, but assuming you want to pop shadow blades before secret techniques so I’m confused on how to do the opener with a macro set up. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated 🙂

[vale pine]

you can macro blades to dance and it will apply before secret

so don't worry

[fleet acorn]

how do i get white/yellow ? or is purple max?

[jade oasis]

pretty sure for this, you need to to time like around the highest key for the spec (?)

take this for example

[spice kelp]

What about your trinket?

[jade oasis]

ik atleast for guidon and other haste trinkets you want to send before bc you want the haste to register before going into dance(?)

[fleet acorn]

ahh i see thanks so i dont have to worry unless i do 19/20s now

if im hones thats my max with pugging i guess

[vale pine]

you don't want to

[spice kelp]

So like shadow strike, trinket, then shadow dance/shadowblades/potion?

[vale pine]

the haste effect of guidon does apply delayed to deepening

so it takes a bit to update

if you macro it together

you lose the benefits

you essentially get dance duration as if you haven't used the trinket

[jade oasis]

how long do i delay before i go into my cds? ive been waiting around a second after pressing guidon

[vale pine]

it can take up to 1 sec to update the value

so ideally you use it 1 sec before your major cooldowns

[haughty mural]

https://klipy.com/gifs/theboys-perfect

[vale pine]

clean

[ionic python]

Is there an estimate on how many times u have to proc TFD to beat veiltouched

[steep raven]

You mean Finality? You run Veiltouched with TFD

[uncut monolith]

If guidon has up to 1s to update haste- isnt this problem also with shadow dance+ secret tehnique macro?

[ionic python]

mmm, is it better than finality? i used to switch between those 2

[steep raven]

Well, the "default" M+ build runs Veiltouched>Finality

[steep raven]

Why would it?

[lucid jackal]

Just run tfd and don't think abt it

[ionic python]

And like the top sub rogues on m+ are basically running it randomly, some ppl have tfd, some ppl veilotuched, some ppl both with no finality

[lucid jackal]

U don't need a lot of restealths for it to provide a lot of extra value

[uncut monolith]

Dont know ehy, i just dont trust.

[steep raven]

When you press it, does it consume the supercharged combo point given by Dance? If yes, then it's instant.
As for Guidon trinket, just macro it to Shadowstrike/Backstab to force a GCD on use and you're good to go

[vale pine]

many dungeons also allow for restealths by design

[ionic python]

Im seeing 85% of parses have finality tho on top 100

[graceful rock]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steep raven]

The good ppl just use the old build. They don't bother with 0.01% increases, they just play the game

Also parsing in M+ is pointless endeavor. At high keys the only thing matters is timing it and doing right dmg at right time is more important than having highest overall

[ionic python]

Fair

[hard cape]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[tight fjord]

Using guidon and gaze with the m+ talents seems kinda low on ST bosses compared to other classes?

[fiery musk]

Hello! I’m new WoW player. I decided to try out WoW and I found some discussions that Sub Rogue is quite nice to play and also is kind of easy to play. I play with BM Hunter (84 level atm) but I feel like I’m more melee player. May I ask do you find Sub Rogue as good newbie class, good DPS class without really complex mechanics etc?

[lucid jackal]

Depends how you define complex

[maiden bronze]

do you sim dungeon slice or Patchwerk 5 boss?

[elfin hound]

not at all

[lucid jackal]

Sub rogue is fairly simple though in its current form

A lot of the basics should be easy to pick up on

[tight fjord]

@elfin hound your io?

[fiery musk]

Well, for me not too much complicated is when you do not have to spend tons of time to get basic rotation etc. Not that braindead but also not too complex

[plush roost]

@hazy breach does the tbc tech beneift sub as well?

[vale pine]

tbc tech?

[lean geyser]

Guys, I never understood it, why do we want to have the apex talent up for the supercharged evisc, does it increase damage? I can't see it in the tooltip

[vale pine]

more damage ye

[tight fjord]

I'll find something for reference

[terse dirge]

the optimization write up on wowhead about using the 1:30 haste trinket from raid is that optimization still relevant for the dungeon haste trinket as well or specifically only with "Light Company Guidon"

[vale pine]

its relevant for any on use haste trinket

the problem is how deepening updates

the haste value only updates in a set interval

so it can take up to 1 sec for it to apply

this means you should use a trinket before going into cooldowns, ideally 1 sec

(only haste on use trinkets)

[strong jay]

speaking of the on-use haste trinkets, is the 700 haste breakpoint counting or not counting the on-use haste trinkets?

[tight fjord]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hYDVWbgqvMn6zCBT?fight=11&type=damage-done&start=14083779&end=14104694

was actually raid spec that was the burst on the final boss of seat

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7ymGaNBnZMr9XQWt?fight=49&type=damage-done&pull=7

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7ymGaNBnZMr9XQWt?fight=49&type=damage-done&pull=4

other two are subt vs balance druid

m+ talent

[vagrant fossil]

Was it still worth to shadowstrike at full and not dump cp during bloodlust btw? I remember there being something about that earlier on

Like just reapplying apex talent

[muted quail]

If we always use Secret technique and shadow dance together how come we take the 2 charges?

[grave cradle]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[tepid trellis]

only apex optimization there is, is this

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[vagrant fossil]

Sectec gets shorter CD than SD

[tepid trellis]

it allows for double dancing during major cds

[vagrant fossil]

That is also what I had been playing by. Just remember seeing something about the other at the start of expansion

[tepid trellis]

you couldnt without it

[vagrant fossil]

Also what Stealthi said

[tepid trellis]

it went through multiple changes over the course of a few weeks and ended up with that

[tidal solstice]

is TFD really that good? ive been using veiltouched + PP + finality1/2 instead of first dance. I mostly pug and I've had such terrible time trying to make it work that I just stopped using it. i guess a lot of tanks havent run with rogues or somethin cause getting a restealth off sometimes feels impossible and then its just a dead talent.

[lucid jackal]

A lot of dungeons just have rp that'll guarantee it

Like think algethar, think nexus point, think even skyreach

[tidal solstice]

if it was just a restealth it would be fine but that 6 sec ooc hurts - seat for instance so many mobs just instant reveal once tank aggroes feels like a waste there

[lucid jackal]

I feel Ur overindexing on times it doesn't trigger and how valuable alternate points end up being

[shell vector]

Opened my mythic dungeon box on my druid, wrong character blizz

[tidal solstice]

idk I feel like those times are too few. caught myself having to hang out for a few seconds way too many times to get it to activate instead of just going ham from the pull.

seems like a lot of those RP times are for bosses, which isnt the talent weakest on?

[swift zinc]

hey rouge geeks, i got a question is this the crit stats too low i know tempo is too low but what about krit ?

[mystic hedge]

also too low

[swift zinc]

what is the peak spot ?

[lucid jackal]

Depends how long Ur bosses are taking

[tidal solstice]

547 crit, 689 haste, 1056 mastery (food+flask+oil), 52 vers
should I drop some mastery for crit?

it feels really good but 24% crit does seem low

[wicked fox]

watch out, they're gonna say sim yourself

I tried asking the question already

[swift zinc]

allright thanks buddy

[lucid jackal]

Stats r fake idk

Just go 700 haste and then the rest crit/mastery

Don't think abt it too hard about "too much"

[swift zinc]

yeah but i have 1174 mastery i think its too much i should spend in crit there

[tidal solstice]

yeah youre using puzzle box

[lucid jackal]

Just Sim and see idk

[swift zinc]

ARRIGHT

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

i mean yeah

sims are harder to do in midnight because of haste breakpoint, but still

[blazing pebble]

with the reccomended aoe build, why is it spending points into shiv?

[swift tinsel]

enrage dispel for dungeons

can swap it and Toxic Stilleto out for featherfoot and iron stomach if you dont need shiv

[blazing pebble]

ahh ty, didnt consider the passive soothe

[vernal drum]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[weak glade]

cinema

[celest magnet]

is there some bug on secret technique clones again? I have a few uses of it where my clones never seem to hit

[jade oasis]

i have 800 mastery and 800 crit

and

i dont like it

[remote rapids]

crafted rings have 2x gem slots or just 1x?

[alpine wraith]

1

only ring with 2 slots is the one from laura

oh and the embellish one

[remote rapids]

hmm ok, just trying to decide what else to craft, hmm hmm

[wintry heart]

I had to craft bracers because I still had 220 adventurers ones 😂

[remote rapids]

i did bracers with emblleishment early on cause mine sucked ... just between ring and waist atm, have champ ring ... might be hard to keep near 700 with crafted crit/mastery ring i dunno

prolly get nexus haste/mast ring, then craft belt i guess is play

[kind fern]

what combo of these 3 are you using, sim says crucible/plume?

[dusky yacht]

I personally wouldn't use double on use but I feel like you could I just would feel like I'm juggling them around all the time

[fiery fog]

plume isnt on use

[dusky yacht]

Oh shi it's not

[fiery fog]

the on use is to change from crit to mastery

[dusky yacht]

I thought it was emberwing

[fiery fog]

or mastery to crit

[dusky yacht]

Then yeah plume and crucible

Mb I haven't slept in ages

[fiery fog]

guidon

and plume

[dusky yacht]

[kind fern]

shiiiiit

[dusky yacht]

I'mma just go to sleep lmao

[fiery fog]

xd

the sim probably wants to get away from guidon because you maybe have too much haste already

idk

[alpine wraith]

do you have 4 set

[kind fern]

4 set, 653 haste

[alpine wraith]

hmm interesting

[fiery fog]

but guidon + 4p makes you able to send 2 dances and 2 sectecs in one shadow blades window

[alpine wraith]

but yea guidon+plume

just make it mastery

or actually you can check which one is better

plume is better mainly because you can upgrade to 276

also mastery gains more value as you get more targets

[fiery fog]

just curious
if i crit one target in aoe
do i crit all targets i hit then?

[kind fern]

sounds good to me thank you!

[alpine wraith]

only with cb that could happen

now every hit rolls

[fringe peak]

Hi all where can i find Plater profiles for rogues with combo points and interruptables?

[modest tide]

Hello, im using raidbots sim and it tells me my best gear i can equip for multi target (5 patchwerk) is 15,5% haste. thought i should have 18% at least

[tranquil jacinth]

can you pre stack turbocharged cp before a raid boss

i noticed i had 4 on my first dance on a pull like i had shadowdanced on trash before and the supercharged cp carried over ? i figured it would be reset on start of encounter

[alpine wraith]

you can get 2

not more

so ye as you enter dance you will have 4

[tranquil jacinth]

makes sense

[muted moon]

Since puzzlebox has 2 min timer, I often find myself in situations where SB will be up but puzzlebox will not and vice versa. Is it worth waiting to line them up or am I wasting damage? Mainly run into this problem in raid but in M+ I find it doesn't matter as often

[violet palm]

Haste losing value over Mastery in higher target count from what I understand

[fiery fog]

treat box as a 3 min trinket

[wispy sedge]

Idk if im missing something but how do i fit two sectecs in blades? Both are 20 sec cd

[leaden prairie]

its reduced by haste

so haste trinket from first boss and lust will do that

[wispy sedge]

It reduces sectec cd?

[leaden prairie]

sectec is a hasted cd now yes

you can see when you hover

green cd

means hasted

[wispy sedge]

Aah alright thanks 🙏🏼

[earnest lodge]

were approaching too much

[shell echo]

question, when using x2 shadow dance during shadow blade. Shadow dance will not be up for the next secret technique. Do we use secret technique without shadow dance or delay secret technique?

[molten citrus]

Recommend getting Platynator and getting Jundies profile off wago.io

It isn’t rogue specific but it’s a good addon/profile for all classes tbh

[weak glade]

are yall doing a 3rd 285 craft or just upgrading?

[lapis ridge]

Alright, Subtlety is my alt, the Rogue Chauexk, Can someone tell me what I'm getting so absurdly wrong with subtlety that my parses by bracket would be so horrible?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q8GnWr6C7c3xFzPA

[rain swift]

are u in AOE spec for chim? just basing out of whats on ur profile? I think single target spec is better in dreamrift (i may be completely lost as well) since the small adds die very fast, majority of the fight is single target on big add and boss

[brisk onyx]

hmm, do you guys think that higher lag tolrance would make it easier to complete last gcd in dance? I tested 150, 250, and 400, and 400 had the highest success rate. this might be because my press frequency wasn't high enough?🤣

[lapis ridge]

I was in the ICyveins single death stalker build

[lapis ridge]

I switch to m+ build on vanguard

[rain swift]

yeah thats what i do to

[rain swift]

Ah, I use trickster I find it better for DPS (maybe just preference?), although the biggest diff I can find is how much damage your black powder does, its my least damaging ability in the fight by like a mile

are u using black powder in single target?

[honest basin]

anyone else sitting on the cuck bench for the rest of the tier?

[lapis ridge]

Yeah pretty much anytime ads would spawn I would use black powder on the ads like voracious or chimeras

[rain swift]

i still find it insane u got so much black powder damage in dreamrift tho

[lapis ridge]

Idk really, actually one time I think my shadow blades synced with when the ads came up from the bottom and I sent it on them and then went for the big ad as it came up. Regardless, I don't understand how I'm getting a gray 8 when sorted by bracket, that means I'm doing something crazy wrong compared to everybody else and I just have no idea what it is

[sharp ravine]

Do a !log

Please

[terse dirge]

is there any specific reason the wowhead guide recommends one of the secondary stat enchants for offhand? i noticed 2x rendorei just sims better for a lot of people

[fading elk]

noob question. do we want haste proc or on use trinkets if we already have the 700 haste needed for the extra secret tech in dance? (i think it was 700 anyway)

[sharp ravine]

Sim originally said one of each, now with more gear it goes with 2x rendorei most of the time, sim yourself and enchant with that

[sharp ravine]

haste is a dead stats if it didn't get you to next treshold, haste proc trinket are in fact useless if you have 700 haste

On use can be dead too if next treshold is too far

[fading elk]

so the 700 haste is to get 2 extra globals with a 0.4s buffer?

[sharp ravine]

Yes

[fading elk]

got it

[terse dirge]

ive got 510 haste the sim is telling me its a dps loss to add more haste and that crit/mastery is more valuable but im finding it hard to fit the 8th global into my dances that aren't trinketed. is it worth to change some stats around on my crafted gear to gain around 100 or so haste to make it more playable or is it a git gud angle and follow the sim

[sharp ravine]

#subtlety-faq

[terse dirge]

ty very much

[fading elk]

the emberwing feather, if you hit the negative effect do you still get the haste buff too or no?

[sharp ravine]

Imo, yes, didn't play with it so not 100%

Funfact, negative effect of emberwing feather is a Buff, you can right click it

[ivory orchid]

I posted a log if anyone can help me improve I have been doing better since seeking advice here but I would like to see what little things I could tweak.

Also I hate the dragon fight

[sharp ravine]

Do a !log
If already done, ping me in it please

[ivory orchid]

Did that work new to this log command

[sharp ravine]

Yes perfect

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[fair cobalt]

Quick question, during dance is it basically generator, finisher(ancient arts) then normal finisher. Or are you trying to get every finisher with ancient arts

[odd knoll]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• **The first dance tracker

[wraith sphinx]

only fishing for AA with supercharged combo points

[fading elk]

how big of an impact is aa fishing like that?

[wraith sphinx]

not very iirc

[sharp ravine]

#subtlety-faq

[wraith sphinx]

but the spec is also like playing with a fisher price controller ATM, so the extra optimization adds something to think about at least

[keen dome]

I hope we get a raid buff soon

[sharp ravine]

[keen dome]

We've just gotta gather energy together.

Put our hands in the air because we absolutely care

[torn tide]

we're lucky we have atrophic poison

or the invites might be impossible

[cold basin]

Hi guys I’m noticing as a new rogue that assassination is become more popular than subtlety in mythic plus. When is each spec better than the other and which is better for raids ? Ty

[keen dome]

Assa is typically better for most players once you start hitting the 13/14+ level. Sub is fine, though. It's just not as good once you get higher. Raiding is solid as Sub or Assa, play which you prefer 'cos we're very middle of the pack right now. I personally prefer Sub.

[sharp ravine]

Assa is better everywhere atm damage wise

Sub have a better dmg profile on some boss

[fiery musk]

Hello! I’m new WoW player. I decided to try out WoW and I found some discussions that Sub Rogue is quite nice to play and also is kind of easy to play. I play with BM Hunter (84 level atm) but I feel like I’m more melee player. May I ask do you find Sub Rogue as good newbie class, good DPS class without really complex mechanics etc?

[keen dome]

Sub is pretty solid to pick up these days. We still have some quirky optimisations but overall it's a lot simpler to learn. Just give it a go and see if you have fun with it. Rogue has three specs, so you can more or less easily try out all of them.

[sharp ravine]

Sub is prob the easiest melee atm
MinMax is a bit complex but it's not your focus

[keen dome]

What's easiest or not is gonna be very subjective to the indiviudal. Just give it a go and see how you find it.

[cold basin]

But as Senday said is assassination better than sub in all content ? I enjoy both specs

[keen dome]

No, it isn't better in all content because all content is a grossly broad category. In lower keys, Sub is gonna do better.

In some raid fights, Sub is gonna do better.

[cold basin]

Ok let’s say usually do 9-10 keys and heroic raids only which would be more optimal

[void ocean]

Saladbar as assa is pain cause of dmg amp every 90 sec

[keen dome]

The one you play better.

[cold basin]

If both are played and enjoyed equally

[keen dome]

Because at that level it legit does not matter and you can play the one you personally find better.

[keen dome]

Flip a coin

[cold basin]

Fair enough

[keen dome]

Or change depending on the key / boss

[void ocean]

so... fatebound?

[keen dome]

Well from my experince messing about with it yesterday, that's more machinegunning coins

[sharp ravine]

Play the best for the content you are doing then

[serene tapir]

Stick to the spec you like tbh…

[hollow spear]

If your group is full of pumpers, assa will suffer in a +9

[keen dome]

It also doesn't matter at weekly / heroic levels and you can succeed very well on both. So just enjoy being free to choose.

[grim pawn]

just checking because of the pin, you dont macro guidon fo you? cause it functions but you want to do it before

[keen dome]

You don't, no. Because of the potential 1s delay to deepening.

[grim pawn]

yeah okay ill take use 13 out of the macro then ty

still better than puzzlebox

sick of that thing

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

I'm anti-puzzle

[grim pawn]

same but i was an uh dk in s1 of df so ive had more than my fill of using it

and i had to use cursed stone idol last season xD

[hollow spear]

If there wasn't a 20s penalty on trinket uses, you could use guidon to haste your puzzle box 🤔

[grim pawn]

tbh i know its maybe a hot take but i think all trinkets should be macroable or passive, i dont want to think about my gear as part of my rotation + mechanics

i can do it but i disagree with it

[lapis ridge]

!log

[keen dome]

It'd be fine if it wasn't for the weird quirk with deepening, too. It's just annoying.

Just Sub Things.

[vagrant fulcrum]

Answer to this is sub tbf

Heroic raid / weekly level keys = shit dies so quick subs burst is better

[vagrant fulcrum]

I agree, issue isn’t if it should, it can be - you can play a suboptimal trinket and not deal with having to think about it

People would rather go through grief than accept a 2% loss or so

[robust tundra]

But would be good too if trinket is very op, and to be important where you use it, but longer cd like 3 min.

[grim pawn]

yeah i wouldnt mind if the alterantives were close.

also ive been away on holiday for a week, did tuning make assa a more attractive raid option now is it still perfectly fine for me to play sub on mythic prog

[sharp ravine]

Perfectly fine

If you are on Beloren prog, you might want to try Assa tho

[keen dome]

That's why I stopped using Puzzle box on sub.

[robust tundra]

Hunters hate this trinket for their gameplay

[limpid sage]

sub is also goated in open world

[keen dome]

100%

[limpid sage]

donno if anything beats sub there

maybe ret rivals

[sharp ravine]

I have a myth Guidon but I have to play Puzzle box on beloren ... I hate this trinket

[keen dome]

Ret can't teleport to the mob

So sub stays winning

[vagrant fulcrum]

I’m fairly sure sub doesn’t come close to actually good open world shit

Locks / hunter / havoc / ret / dk

[robust tundra]

yeah you can't vanish

[vagrant fossil]

On mythic? Wouldn't that mean you miss 2nd sectec in blades during the second egg?

[keen dome]

I can kill rares in 5 seconds, prey bosses die in 15 at most, I can pull the world and not die. I have stealth utility. I can run away and drop combat on a whim

[limpid sage]

none of the ones you mentioned strike me as better than sub

[vagrant fulcrum]

I think we need to specify the context

I’m thinking open world before you’re geared

When shit is somewhat challenging

[grim pawn]

i think i tdepends what open world content, for wq's and mobs you can kill in a single shadowstrike its goated for things with hp that actually hit quite hard it can be rough

[vagrant fulcrum]

Evasion is goated I’ll give you that

[limpid sage]

I'm not specifying anything like that

[vagrant fulcrum]

But I would say rogue feels worse to me than hunter for open world shit

[limpid sage]

I think both early and late

[keen dome]

I think Sub has more downtime than some other classes but ultimately it's just incredibly strong for open world content. Delves are another thing though 'cos lol white hits on a leather class

[vagrant fulcrum]

Late sub is goated agreed

[limpid sage]

if you'd ask me in tww

[vagrant fulcrum]

The free mobility and burst is lit

[limpid sage]

it's prob the worst possible open world experience you could have

[vagrant fulcrum]

Nowadays it’s better than it was, not below avg or anything

[limpid sage]

besides those 10% of the time where you deal dmg

[sharp ravine]

Yes but Puzzle Box is better than Guidon
We pref Guidon because it's 1:30 cd and line up with blade but on beloren we are using blade a 2 and 4:40 so Puzzle box is way better

[robust tundra]

like for killing rare 5m hp solo on rogue is easy right?

[vagrant fulcrum]

I guess my beef with it is you feel like you can’t really kill a healthy enemy so without blades

[grim pawn]

basically i feel like if anything lives through shadowblades in the open youre cooked

[vagrant fulcrum]

Think of it how you did getting delves up without gear

Other than the dmg which is a minor point - rogue in general has meh healing

[vagrant fossil]

Oooh. That makes sense ye
Thank you for the heads up so I can perform when we get there

[vagrant fulcrum]

Sub is the best of the three

[limpid sage]

my rogue is like 233 and could pull half the dungeon by just tricksing valeera and bursting it all down in one round of cds

[vagrant fulcrum]

Rogue id say puts you on a timer

[limpid sage]

my shaman (276) tried the same and died halfway through cds xd

[vagrant fulcrum]

These other classes I consider better can just straight up fight a dumb amount of mobs indefinitely

[keen dome]

You have to accept the downtime. Sometimes you have to wait 30 seconds. I think that's fine.

We aren't guardian druids, after all

[vagrant fulcrum]

Ey bm just pulls another mob, WItHOUT waiting for its single 30s cd

And gives 0 shots

Your pet won’t ever die

[limpid sage]

Ye I value on demand burst and mobility for open world

[vagrant fulcrum]

You won’t ever die

[limpid sage]

And having short cds

[vagrant fulcrum]

But for now, open world wise sub and outlaw to a lesser degree are amazing

[tidal solstice]

idk sub + dps valeera is strong af

thats final delve boss

[vagrant fulcrum]

At killing stuff quickly once surviving isn’t an issue

[keen dome]

Valeera is showing the world how cool rogues are

[vagrant fulcrum]

I think we go from mob to mob quickly

[grim pawn]

valeera shows Blizz knows how to make rogue fun and attractive, but wont

[vagrant fulcrum]

Valera is just melee swing god

[keen dome]

Today is a day of suffering. I enter the pug mines. Or I attempt too but the door won't open.

[vagrant fulcrum]

Idk if that’s fun

[grim pawn]

iim literally talking to you folks as im sat pending in 5 keys at once repeatedly

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

I'm thankfully not doing keys, but I am unthankfully doing something worse

myth Chim

[grim pawn]

oof

my guild is on salad bar, not attempted chim yet

just waiting out the inevitable getting sat for dragons

so they can stack hunters

[keen dome]

haha

I'm just a puglord so the vault value is gigantic

[grim pawn]

huge vault gamer, my warrior alt got guidon in the vault while my main had to take a hero ring over 3 myth belts

we love the vault

[keen dome]

vault, vault, vault

[azure thicket]

chim kill

vault vault vault

[vale pine]

vault was renamed to black powder

^ reference

[vagrant fossil]

I didn't even know that had happened

I always knew it as black powder

[azure thicket]

what a emo spell name

pve content is done for the week time to get 4 set for arena i guess

[vagrant fossil]

There's a politician in Denmark who recently was found to have done uhm... some white powder
And when we were talking about sub AOE rotation I said "I am using more black powder than X politician uses white powder"

[azure thicket]

just heard a joke about powders but i forgort

[tepid trellis]

best part was the jumping animation lock of it

[vale pine]

the 0.2 sec animation lock

haha

i remember one of the youtubers who got early access

saying how op it was becsause you could negate fall damage

funny to think about, given that every new class released since can do so without any requirement

[vagrant fossil]

Bring back Catlike Reflexes for sub rogue!

[grim pawn]

i miss tos dfa sub

[keen dome]

ChimariusM question. You can cross sides when everyone is back from the Alnrealm, right? It's only when one side is in Alnrealm and one isn't that it'll do damage to each other?

[azure thicket]

that's what it seems like

its just downphase meets upphase that causes the hit

[keen dome]

That's what I thought but someone was giving me grief for crossing briefly to slow stuff when everyone was back

[azure thicket]

yeah you might have been tagging nightmare ppl or something

[keen dome]

Nobody was near me but I dunno the radius, that's good to know

[azure thicket]

ended up trusting ranged to do most of the work on adds which is def not normal prog stuff

zerged tf out of it once ppl got mechanics

[keen dome]

Yeah

[azure thicket]

its like 8 yards

[keen dome]

It doesn't seem so bad, just a few bits I'm playing grossly over cautious on atm

Pugs are just terrible at explaining stuff and the vibe is a "if you ask questions they'll kick you" group

[azure thicket]

yeah, rl was someone who got sat for prog and was willing to jam it out

definitely want one of those groups that wants to use discord

[keen dome]

I do not want to use discord

[stiff stirrup]

Why do I remember as it being called death lotus?

[vale pine]

sounds interessting too

[torn tide]

how much mastery should we have?

im at 800 but idk if thats good

[keen dome]

more is gooder

[torn tide]

678 haste should be fine right cuz faq says about 650-700

[keen dome]

If you are comfy with it, yeah. Should be fine.

[torn tide]

seems pretty chill to me

[dense cradle]

hey, **Orc **or **Nightelf **for max. dmg in RAID?
can i use a buffed attack on this shadowmeld? (assa) Garrote or (sub) Shadowstrike?

[river coral]

not in raid

[hollow spear]

if your prio is max damage, neither

[dense cradle]

so orc is better?

[vagrant fossil]

Orc is the best of those two IIRC

[vale pine]

thats fine

[river coral]

well neither are the top simming race but yes orc is better

[sage pond]

Are you asking for best race overall or best out of the two choices

[vagrant fossil]

But both are miles behind panda and mechagnome

[sharp ravine]

Panda

[vale pine]

#tc-research message

you can sim race comparisons, but the diffrence between the mentioned is small

[hollow spear]

Delete the mechagnome part right now

[vagrant fossil]

Well, sims says it's decent. It just requires you to play perfect and not die or you reset the stacks

[hollow spear]

It wasn't about performance, it was bout mechagnome being cringe 😉

[vagrant fossil]

Oh ye, 100%

But who in their right mind plays as panda or mechagnome without spamming Savory Deviate Delights

[austere mural]

should’ve just been a gnome customization smh my head

[sharp ravine]

60 of them on every toon

[cinder roost]

Hey, is there any reasoning anyone could think of as to why the macro I have randomly just has cooked delays? Most of the time it's fine, tonight in a pug I noticed this?

[torn tide]

what else do i do with my myth crests after im done recrafting the 2 gears?

and i have no myth pieces to upgrade

[hollow spear]

do you raid mythic?

[short radish]

hold them in your bags and generate interest

[short radish]

might be a potion thing

thtas all i can think of

i havent seen that issue

but i cast mine separate

so pot then blade + sblade + sectech

[red flame]

You run at least one +10 key per week & get myth in your vault xd

[short radish]

you can have spare crests if you get absolutely shat on for vault

and also get 0 drops from mythic raid

[cinder roost]

yea that was kinda my thought as well, think ill just manually pot to avoid the headache. just couldnt think of any fundamental issue with the macro and wanted to make sure i wasnt being dumb. cheers

[short radish]

could also be a wait 0.2 seconds longer

because there's maybe some funky interaction with pbox

you were rather precise with your button pressing after the channel

but also gcd should be over /shrug

[cinder roost]

ya im spamming that thing but ye, even if gcd isnt over everything should cast and sectec should be the thing delayed

very weird

[sullen spruce]

is it still possible to get that pvp neck

[keen dome]

Should be

[restive stream]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• **The first dance tracker

[sick sand]

Oh we got a first dance tracker that's awesome

[austere mural]

killed heroic midnight falls the other night, phase 1 especially is super fun on sub i liked it a lot

[short radish]

sectech seems to line up with the adds rather well

[austere mural]

yeah p much perfectly

[short radish]

unless you're a pbox gamer

then if you miss one gcd everythings fucked by a second

[keen dome]

Got MChim to 30% in my first group so I think I can kill this today, maybe. But then the group went from doingr eally well to dying to the first add spawn in P1 lol

[hollow spear]

Did you pug with my guild?

[keen dome]

I wish

Pretty good pug lead though, although he did give confusing instructions half the time. "dont not" is not a good way to phrase something...

[short radish]

you gotta really emphasise to the ranged dps to always be on a lookout for the far add

it's all they gotta do in that phase

[keen dome]

Yep

Intermission is just kick stun interrupt, dps secondary

[short radish]

yup

[keen dome]

Kidney is goated

[short radish]

rogue acutally kinda op this spot also

yah ikr

9second kidney or w/e

[keen dome]

We didn't have a single fear on my side on any pull

[short radish]

based

[keen dome]

'Cos I was kidney shotting and cheat shotting

[short radish]

oh yeah it's pvping time

[torn tide]

been getting shit stuff so i didnt take them

[keen dome]

And the DK's were on point gripping

[torn tide]

nope

[keen dome]

they grip in and I slam the kidney. Adds melt.

[short radish]

me on lura interrupts for the night

[keen dome]

owns

[short radish]

tbh you should take them unless its donkey trinkets

even if its cape/wrists

[keen dome]

I'm running crippling but I legit don't know if it was helping or not 'cos I was very cautious on going to the other side to aoe adds when they came into the real realm

[hollow spear]

are you actually a gamer if you don't supercharge your kidney shot?

[short radish]

stat upgrades are still stat upgrades

[short radish]

don't forget to coldblood it as well

[keen dome]

On our side they died so quickly it didn't seem to matter either

[torn tide]

it was the wind heart thing lol

[short radish]

yeah but was it all 3 shit trinkets?

i mean it does happen tbh

[hollow spear]

Cannot forget about style points, true

[short radish]

trinkets probably the only slot that's a waste to get if it's a shit one

[keen dome]

Rings maybe too but ye, def trinkets

[short radish]

but any other piece you just take for the ilvl

mhm there's only one crit vers ring right?

[keen dome]

I gues with rings you could still craft the other

[short radish]

everything else has some combo of crit/haste/mast

[keen dome]

and then upgrade a hero one for free

[short radish]

yah

early game you just want ilvl

[hollow spear]

I want a dagger or a nexus point ring in my vault

[keen dome]

same

[short radish]

same

[keen dome]

Unless I kill MChim today then I want a gaze or guidon

[short radish]

or a guidon

acutally i just want a guidon

[hollow spear]

I will get two capes and two wrists though

[short radish]

and then i dont care about loot for the rest of the tier

since i'll get it evnetually

[keen dome]

I'm glad Imperator has cloak, helm and boots

it makes me feel happy killing him weekly for catalyst fodder

[short radish]

[hollow spear]

What a chad

[short radish]

acutal cursed loot

i think ive had to take a cape on my shaman as well

but week later i got bis trinket so it was karma redemption

[hollow spear]

I am due for a guy vault

but this season guy

not last season

[keen dome]

Haha

If I don't kill MChim this week I want a dagger

I would settle for a Myth Nexus ring as a second best consolation prize

[hollow spear]

I took heroic gaze this week

so it'd be kinda heartbreaking to get a mythic one next week

[keen dome]

I have 13 kills on him now and he hasn't dropped a single one, even on kills I'm loot locked on

it doesn't exist

[hollow spear]

the heck

what did he ever do to you

[keen dome]

MBTI tests

[hollow spear]

I was typing that

hahaha

[torn tide]

2 of them

[short radish]

[hollow spear]

If you don't mythic raid, not taking a mythic piece from vault is kinda int

[torn tide]

true

[short radish]

yeah only scenario you take a socket is if it's absolute dogshit trinkets

because you can catalyse cape/boots

[keen dome]

In his defense, he did ask my advice and i told him the trinket sucked

[hollow spear]

but it was only 2 out of 3!

[short radish]

so it's your fault!

[keen dome]

Always is.

[short radish]

what was his vault

[hollow spear]

eh, one int vault kinda doesn't matter in the bigger picture

[keen dome]

@torn tide Didn't you only have one +10 slot that week?

Or was I oblviious and giving bad advice