subtlety

[young crow]

Aaah so that might be it.

[lilac stag]

if his mark bugs out he’s fucked

[fiery fog]

by looking at the timeline he is using evis into dance

which is wrong

since you want 6+ cp when going into dance

and start dance+sectec

[lilac stag]

Not if he’s playing deathstalker

[fiery fog]

even if he is

then he should storm

instead of shadow strike

[lilac stag]

Yes he should storm, but you want low CP as

[fiery fog]

yeah he seems to be playing deathstalker

tell him to not do that actually

xd

here he is also using guidon too late (needs to be 1sec before going into dance)

and the only other thing im aware of (just went quickly over the timeline) is him using too many bp while playing deathstalker (he didnt refresh his mark on any target and just kept black powdering) though here he is correctly doing dance + storm because its aoe

the best advice you can give him is to really read the #subtlety-faq

[lean sigil]

I looked at pikaboo and he does vanish and meld between his dances during blades, his last dance ends after blades, is that not a dumb play? Vanish is nice Ofc but to add meld aswell?

[young crow]

shot thanks

[undone ridge]

guys cheatdeath or the other talent for m+

been running the other talent i forgot the name ._.

[red flame]

its elusiveness

[undone ridge]

thank you

whats ur take?

[red flame]

i personally use Elusiveness always bc it makes Evasion & Feint such solid defensive options
however, if you fuck up & get hit by anything dumb you're prob just dead lol (i fall into this plenty ironically enough)

theres a lot of instances im wondering if Cheat Death would actually be better bc i die to stupid shit sometimes
but also I really like having those strong defensives & I feel like i'd be worse off w/o them

wowhead talent builds all have Cheat Death tho, fwiw

[fiery fog]

in m+ elusivness tends to get more value

in raids cheat death can come in clutch

[red flame]

its so clutch bc getting 1 shot feels so bad when yk if you had Cheat you would still be up & dpsing

ive been debating using CD for a while i just havent actually swapped it yet

i keep feeling like skill will prevail eventually

[tribal blade]

if you want to do any remotely serious keys cheat is pretty troll unless you want to give your healer a workout

unless it's one of those funny dungeons where every single instance of damage besides bolts are aoe

but i don't think we have any of those this season

[hazy breach]

Alongside what the others have said already. The shadow dance window overveiw on wowanalyzer is actually very solid now and ideally every single dance should be blue (aka perfect)

[lilac stag]

Meld during it is not a gain, or wasn’t last time I asked fuu to check.

[young crow]

So he's definitely doing something wrong there.

[hazy breach]

Dancing too early and/or not pressing buttons enough

[young crow]

From my limited understanding it looks like he's not lining up his cds. Previous main was a fury warrior where it's just press when avail.

[hazy breach]

Its not worth specifically lining them up as its 90s vs 120s, but its better to vanish inbetween dances than to just backstab for sure

[lilac stag]

yea the dance vansih dance is the way

[hazy breach]

But yeah both are overkill if you have guidon as you wont have that much room inbetween

[empty bobcat]

I am coming back after DF 🙂

tahnks for the answer

also why do we open with ShStrike in AoE instead of shuriken when it gives 100% crit out of stealth?

[obsidian crag]

i see that sometimes Sec Tec is missing on mines, like this img, maybe its cuz of the macro or me not waiting GCD ?

[hazy breach]

Well then you probably didnt cast sectech

But yes if you are missing casts you are either dancing too early before your gcd is ready, or you are not pressing enough buttons

[obsidian crag]

i use the macro, / cast dance / cast sec tec

[fallow glade]

deleting my rogue. NOW.

[hazy breach]

That is still fine, it shouldnt be red

As youre still getting all the casts

But yeah ideally dont dance when below 30 energy

[obsidian crag]

what i did

[hazy breach]

Well yeah thats sectech outside of dance

So obviously its not gonna show as being cast inside dance, like you should

[fallow glade]

i was wondering why it said my SD uptime was 0.34 seconds, so i went to see the log. i guess the guy logging had lag or something

new ultra sectech, send 12 globals in 1 second

[fathom adder]

I´d take convoke on rogue

beta testin

[obsidian crag]

i have super hard time getting good parses on cosmos, i screw my rotation so many times in that fight

[tight fjord]

On my way boys

[frigid canopy]

i just want flag. back, and old nimble flurry... insert "i just want her back meme"

[hazy breach]

Flag is very whatever, if they wanted us to have that kind of burst again they could just make shadowblades 50% or something and it would accomplish basically the same thing

But yeah the loss of cdr and nimble hurt the specs niches hard

[frigid canopy]

yeah, i dont mind it like baked into SB, just makes it a bit rampy which i kinda liked

[lilac stag]

I don’t find this to be an issue. Not sure if it’s NE helping Sectech or using blades with dance vs trinket, but it’s comfy in practice.

I think the sims are also auggesting dance / vanish / dance

[vestal escarp]

What did i miss

Wow analyzer good now?

[hazy breach]

Not entirely, but their dance optimization window is

[shell ferry]

Hello Everyone I just dropped a Hero Trinket Plume (umral/Radiat) and it sims a little bit higher than Crucible trinket does anyone know how the plume works and why is no rogue playing with it ?

[vestal escarp]

Is it not mantained by the same spec/class theorycrafters?

[lilac stag]

at this point I’m just vibing with the opener. Have my fun with the apex, watch sblades bar to snap trinket in dance and go

[hazy breach]

Its stats, the reason nobody is playing with it is because its hard to get

And generally gaze of the alnseer is better

But its a good trinket

[shell ferry]

So is it good if I keep it and upgrade it then ?

[lilac stag]

because every Loot Council is giving it to not rogue. Gz on the drop

[hazy breach]

Yes

[shell ferry]

Okay, goit it from the 4 dung box, I'm pretty lucky then

[frigid canopy]

huuge

[shell ferry]

One last question should I swap between both stats depending on my gear or always keep mastery

[frigid canopy]

need to do one more key to get my crafted slot from weekly

[hazy breach]

Probably just keep mastery unless the crit one is simming way higher (which it probably wont)

[lilac stag]

Yeah but are you this lucky?

[humble rover]

actually bis

every raid is like10k in repair

[shell ferry]

Ayooooo, you used all your luck, avoid going out

[humble rover]

im becoming financially ruined this xpac

[lilac stag]

Not me considering going BS to avoid dagger repair cost

[humble rover]

i disenchant stuff

basically my only income

[lilac stag]

I do

That market got flooded

Along with almost every other

[humble rover]

i still get like 3k for every item

[lilac stag]

they’re down to 1250 on NA

Pretty sure they dropped to 1k on Wed

Goblins exiting the season, panic selling starts

[hollow spear]

Any recommendations for palter profiles?

[grizzled cosmos]

are sims wacky on sublety? it says i should be doing 82k... most i can get is 70...lmao

[grizzled cosmos]

jundies is good

[hazy breach]

Not really no

[lilac stag]

Jundies (playtnator over plater)

[hollow spear]

Looks clean, thank you

[vagrant fossil]

The sim result isn't that wacky, but expect to be a bit lower since the bot wants perfect breakpoints and all haste above a breakpoint without hitting the next is not seen as worth. Hence the sims says you want like 100 haste less than is recommended
12k difference is some mistakes in rotation tho

[wild vine]

Can you move the debuffs next to the healthbar on platynator?

Saw that this morning on a plater profile, kinda looks nice and might be cleaner

Since it somewhat alleviates overstacking

[swift tinsel]

if you use platynator you can click and drag widgets where you want them relative to the nameplate anchor

in the Designer tab

[hazy breach]

Im still confused as to why blizzard didnt implement the nameplate colouring scheme to their default ones

[wild vine]

Ah alright nice, gotta see how that feels later then. Thanks mate

[swift tinsel]

same since its immensely helpful

and they want to make the game more approachable, why not have an informative color scheme

that makes mob prio insanely approachable

[undone ridge]

thanks for ur insight

[hazy breach]

And since we cant manually change colours now, if it was baseline it would put more pressure on them to actually adhere to it with all mobs

[undone ridge]

same here ngl

[wild vine]

I feel like they only tried to get the base stuff going half decently and will just work on their versions of the stuff after most of the balancing/fixing is done

[undone ridge]

i use elusiveness

and i like it

[swift tinsel]

I really really really hope they use mid-season patches to address UI stuff but I will not be surprised if they drag ass on it

[wild vine]

Ye same

[swift tinsel]

base nameplates still obtuse, base damage meter still lacking

cdm is laughable

[lilac stag]

At this point it feels like blizzard dev time is akin to unmedicated adhd. A lot of things get started, and randomly do or don’t get finished if they remember they were even supposed to be doing something.

[river fog]

dastoil

[swift tinsel]

true based real and actually

[lilac stag]

their project management is 💩. it could be the people, the time constraints, the environment… but whatever they actually manage is a dumpster fire without and means to fully extinguish it.

reminds me of poorly managed retail stores

it’s still profitable so why fix it

[swift tinsel]

the rat arc begins

[lilac stag]

When you actually start looking at it from a project manager pov, and there are certain assumptions you have to take, but it’s really just a people resource issue that continues to snowball run with impractical time goals.

They HAVE to continue putting out seasonal content, while at the same time trying to not brick any underlying systems they want to implement changes to.

They game the player base a lot of magic tricks to distract them from the cdm shit, and now this last week it’s all front and center with the memory game addon.

we continue to pay.

the housing shit had more development time likely associated to it in the last 5 years than any of the other systems and I doubt it’s close.

[swift tinsel]

Yep, and they continue to spread people across both the live game and multiple incarnations of classic, housing, whatever other live service things they're trying to add

meanwhile balance is odd as fuck

[ashen ibex]

That’s cheating , it’s illegal.

[swift tinsel]

best they can do is make everything dispellable by freedom

[lilac stag]

imagine if they even had 2+ years of UI work before announcing the removal of addons

[swift tinsel]

nah just scorched earth everything into secret boxes then slowly walk back on it

[wild vine]

Dang, I'm currently leveling one aswell

[lilac stag]

I’d love to see actual hours allocated to class development

[swift tinsel]

replace a carefully restored corvette with a prius that got hit by fallen trees

[lilac stag]

Pre Launch and During

[swift tinsel]

same on a per-class and per-spec level

if people can FOIA my workload I wanna do that for blizz balance team lol

[lilac stag]

how do we maintain profits? Improve the product? Nah cut labor.

reinvest in developers? Nah we have AI

[swift tinsel]

wait if I buy blizz stock can I get that info

lol

[lilac stag]

allow work from home? Nah starve in San Fran

[grizzled cosmos]

maybe me using shadowdance all willy nilly is the difference.. was using it on cd.. also only used technique during dance and blades during dance. maybe i should stagger my shadow dances?

[worldly root]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[grizzled cosmos]

guide also says to save 2 charges for full duration of blades so im confused i guess

[swift tinsel]

should be holding dance for secret technique outside blades

[short radish]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[lilac stag]

Saving 2 charges is starting blades with 10 secs left on your 2nd dance charge, not waiting for SD to have 2 full charges.

[glacial eagle]

hazzicostas explicitly said that they consider "learning important mob names" to be part of skill/dungeon mastery

[swift tinsel]

then why allow addons to color mob bars

[glacial eagle]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[swift tinsel]

by the same virtue, why have Lindormi's buff show which mobs you should pull?

[north schooner]

because they are ok with you colouring them based on mob type etc. not per mob name though

[swift tinsel]

that's essentially what's being asked for though

colored based on mob type

[vagrant fossil]

That is indeed an issue that can give that big of a gap. The use of shadow dance and sectec kinda changes depending on tier set and guidons, but base principle is. Sectec on CD, line up a shadow dance with it, line them both up with shadow blades

[north schooner]

their nameplates still need more work on more important things

[swift tinsel]

well yeah

that's just the base UI in general

[north schooner]

nameplate movement is atrocious this expansion

[swift tinsel]

yeah, I know exactly zero people using base nameplates

I tried messing with them just to see and they're so erratic

[north schooner]

well movement isn't unique to base nameplates though. the issue affect addon nameplates too

they just put way too many things on their plate "because they were ahead of schedule"

[swift tinsel]

wait.

they thought

they were ahead of schedule

[warm marlin]

that'll teach those pesky blizzard employees to be ahead of schedule

[swift tinsel]

and this is what we have to play with

in general

[north schooner]

well tbh it was ion who said that who is a serial liar

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah that tracks then

absolutely

[warm marlin]

they were ahead of schedule for all the addon changes to hit in TLT

[swift tinsel]

hueheuhue

[warm marlin]

and then they supposedly moved it to midnight because they were so far ahead

[swift tinsel]

god I dislike that man

[lilac stag]

trusting lawyer speak

[north schooner]

they made the changes one expansion early and we got this mess

[vagrant fossil]

@grizzled cosmos At the moment. A good rule of thumb is. Shadow Dance never at max charges, always one ready for sectec. Shadow Dance and sectec ready for Shadow blades

Rest of the other things is well written in both the wowhead guide and the FAQ on the discord

[swift tinsel]

whoever greenlit that

[small mantle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

ion

is a dunce

[lilac stag]

Far from it

Dude when from forum troll to running the most popular mmo ever

[warm marlin]

me when we do good work so that we are 9 months ahead of schedule so i reward this by making the devs 9 months behind schedule and forced into even more work to try to meet this new deadline

[swift tinsel]

yeah def not dunce behavior

[frigid canopy]

told you... 🙂

[north schooner]

(while also fucking over addon devs by having to hotfix workarounds and breaking things)

[lilac stag]

decisions are typically calculated risks, did it effect their bottom line? doubtful

someone on the team either Yes Sir’d the answer or they legit thought it was doable.

[north schooner]

and btw that's all ignoring all the collateral damage caused by the api changes. Many innocent addons had to die for them

https://giphy.com/gifs/tophermcgee3-shrek-lord-farquaad-farquad-9ywPjIs6wjn1Q9mnSE

[lilac stag]

WAs took the brunt. Most out of combat QoL seemingly are still there. Just now 20 addons vs WAs

[sharp ravine]

WA still there

[swift tinsel]

in classic sure

[north schooner]

even with 12.0.5 in a couple weeks we get more collateral damage with character sheet/paperdoll addons being gutted

[sharp ravine]

WA is just named m33kaura now

[north schooner]

WAs can do maybe 20% of what they could before

[lilac stag]

I don’t think anyone can argue against how strong combat WAs were. How to fit that removal with UI improvements idk.

WA team said fuck it.

[swift tinsel]

they absolutely could have reduced/remove WA's computational fight-solving power without completely dumpstering WA capability at the outset

[lilac stag]

and that’s ok

[swift tinsel]

well yeah they said fuck it bc blizz didn't go for the metered approach they said they were going to

[lilac stag]

How?

[sharp ravine]

You know even northern sky have WA export ? That solve most hard mechanic

[lilac stag]

even fully removed there are work around

[swift tinsel]

by removing chat log reading capability

[lilac stag]

So I can’t communicate in a mmo while fighting?

[swift tinsel]

what

no

[sharp ravine]

Addonchat

[north schooner]

ok but they also wanted (which I don't agree with) to remove rotation solving capabilities. And that caused way more issues

[sharp ravine]

Not your chat

[swift tinsel]

yeah I also don't agree with that move because they have two rotation solving systems in their own game

[lilac stag]

Max specifically went over the removing chat issues

[swift tinsel]

one that legitimately plays almost your entire rotation for you

[north schooner]

addon comss = addons have a hidden channel to communicate information. It is now blocked in hard content

but they still found a way to work around that for lura

[lilac stag]

they didn’t need to work around it, chat communication did it which you’re not removing

I’m pretty sure the addon iq of the teams at liquid and echo are well above any of our pay grades

I’ll take it with a grain of salt when he says bliz can’t just disable chat

but I believe it

[north schooner]

it is still a workaround. they used 1 separate channel for each symbol iirc. Addon cannot read the contents of a message

but they can see that a message occured

[lilac stag]

You can open up NSRT

It does it now

[north schooner]

lura is a mess anyway in a hypothetical non addon-solving world

[undone ridge]

okay guys last time asking questions about ancient arts

when im doing my opener i wanna shadow strike until i proc ancient arts and THEN dump sectec paired with dance?

[tulip gorge]

can someone explain to me what's the point of stealth, if I can get targeted by random mob trash from miles away anyway?

[north schooner]

class flavour

[fallow glade]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/933386399279878154/1347570769441329202/watermark.gif?width=373&height=210

[frail path]

Feel like most bosses pull you out of stealth just as the fights start, too

[pine viper]

Are light and void set rings bis Hero rings?

[tulip gorge]

even trash

but I expect at least to not be targeted by bolts while tank is gathering

but nope

it doesn't work that way

[pine viper]

Im simming Bifurcation band it shows worse

[north schooner]

follow what your sim says then

[north schooner]

more likely that an aoe knocks you out of stealth and then you are a valid target

[red flame]

LMAO this is hilarious

[limber cliff]

What your sim says plus like 50-60 haste anyway

[slim gale]

So based off the pin for the trinkets, we should not macro the Guidion trinket into our blades macro? Or its fine to do just dont use a dance in that macro

[limber cliff]

I macro it to blades and then use a separate Dance/ST macro

[hazy breach]

Some mobs do it regardless

[slim gale]

Ok, before the trinket I had Blades/Dance/ST in one macro, but I guess I just make the Blades macro just do the trinket and then press my normal ST macro which is Dance/ST

[hazy breach]

The lightspawns in nexus point for example

[lilac stag]

Leave your macro. Just trinket separate

[limber cliff]

Or yeah that works too

[tulip gorge]

yes those triggered me

[limber cliff]

It just can't be on the same macro as Dance

[vagrant fossil]

Exile was simming based on "Ignore what the sim says, except for which of crit or mastery is worth most"

[hazy breach]

They're just free damage, so yeah they're good

[vagrant fossil]

They also give good stats for sub rogue

[lilac stag]

Which is what we have been saying in here. Get as close to 700 haste as possible and then look for mast/crit depending on where your needs are

[vagrant fossil]

https://www.twitch.tv/imexile/clip/PleasantBenevolentSalsifyOSfrog-karuVe14Ew3QM9y2

[vagrant fossil]

Yea, it was just someone was saying "follow the sim"

[lilac stag]

robot has an * this expansion.

learn to do math to 700

[hazy breach]

We love haste breakpoints

[lilac stag]

I’m enjoying the chaos.

[north schooner]

top gear is still useable, it's droptimizer that is impossible to use

[lilac stag]

almost as much fun as apex

[tulip gorge]

"we have an issue with rogues not scaling with haste, quick, add a haste tax to make them playable" 👍

[vagrant fossil]

Kinda. It will still tell you a lower amount of haste than 700 is better, even when you use top gear

[lilac stag]

Not really. If you have 700 haste the crown neck is total garbage

which it’s not, you just need to move stats around.

[north schooner]

top gear will create all combinations with the pieces you give it

which is what you just describe

[vagrant fossil]

Yes, but top gear sim will still say 700 haste is too much

So it will devalue a lot of haste if you have 700, despite you wanting 700

[north schooner]

for that you use the oil trick mentioned in faq

[lilac stag]

Droptimizer uses your input. So if you’re at 700 haste it will try to drop you down

[vagrant fossil]

According to my sim it wants me to drop like 100 haste, and oil will give me 32 in total

[lilac stag]

All that haste on the crown neck if your at 700 before sim is worth 5dps per stat vs 18

[vagrant fossil]

But that doesn't change the fact that it will stay I should ahve suboptimal haste just because the bot isn't playing with latency

[lilac stag]

All of the sudden crown neck is -78 dps upgrade

[alpine wraith]

engi boots and wrist to the rescue

of the non haste havers

after i got laura neck i had to slam the engi wrist

[north schooner]

unfortunate that the rogue devs only know how to make haste work with forcing breakpoints

[lilac stag]

that’s most of the classes. Just they don’t have hard 1 sec gcd

[alpine wraith]

true next change is you need 1200 haste and then you limit break and gcd becomes 0.8

and 2400 for 0.6

[north schooner]

monks and kitties also have 1s gcd

[vagrant fossil]

I don't really think they expected it to give breakpoints

[lilac stag]

Ask feral how their sims are going

[north schooner]

no thx I don't talk to druid players

[vagrant fossil]

I had a fun sim where I did a droptimiser with my current setup and then one where I changed to lower haste value and it moved crown neck from -1300 to +300. Just from moving like 100 haste

[lilac stag]

I went in a moved gear around for the big item upgrades. The ilvl upgrades were basically 700-1000. The special items are the only ones to really fret over

Talking 276 to 289 tier for example

Necks and rings I had to make sure the haste added or lost hit 700

[hazy breach]

It's not even really a latency between you and the server issue. It's the fact that the servers themselves aren't doing everything every millisecond, things get batched together and shuffled around a few milliseconds because there hasn't been any need for it to be more precise

[lilac stag]

imagine the world boss lag if it was that precise.

[red flame]

Oondasta release war flashbacks

[hazy breach]

Like when looking at logs to figure out how long your dance was, its not 7.4 flat, it fluctuates between like 7.35-7.45 depending

But it averages to 7.4

[lilac stag]

which is while people keeps saying 700 is comfy

I don’t even want to get how much work or if it’s possible to get the robot to figure that shit out and force gearsets to 684-705 haste.

[swift tinsel]

just gotta integrate ReforgeLite into Top Gear

[lilac stag]

I’m thrilled we got consumables in top gear.

[swift tinsel]

set haste threshold -> sim away

yeah that was huge

instead of walking people through advance sim

which, while not hard

[warm marlin]

I think this was big for a lot of people but I can't help but wonder how much the rogue threshold debacle had an influence on that

not sure if koji or anyone has connections with seriallos like that

[lilac stag]

I’ll email him. He’s usually good about responding

[hazy breach]

Idk how to properly change the sim for it without screwing over other things

[dusky yacht]

Before I had put effects to essential I did one of the world bosses and I swear my pc almost imploded lmao

[lilac stag]

He’s generally very good about taking feedback

especially with how much he’s making off it.

[lilac stag]

It wouldn’t be just top gear, it would be droptimizer as well.

or you’re manually adding basically everything to topgear

[stiff stirrup]

Recently more classes are out dpsing sub around 16-18 keys or what’s going on

[young apex]

guys how can i improve my shadow blade damage

i dont get it cause everyones shadow blades are stronger than mines

[stiff stirrup]

Always keep auto attacking

[lilac stag]

stay in melee range (and face) your target

[eternal abyss]

Why are we spamming Black Powder on Vaelgor & Ezorak?
I thought BP is for +3 targets.
But every top log I see, it's only BP and Evisc only on that add during intermission.

[lilac stag]

You take PP and it’s spam on 2+

[vale pine]

if you use potent powder, bp is better

if you don't evis is

[lilac stag]

talents matter

[eternal abyss]

But I suppose playing PP is better otherwise top log would be Weaponmaster and spamming Evis 😛

[hazy breach]

The top log is gonna be padding on the small ones, in which case pp is significantly better

For just dragon dps it's pretty similar either way

[crystal bone]

the adds do need to die quickly, we call that ethical padding

[lilac stag]

The adds also nearly perfectly line up with our CDs

[eternal abyss]

Yeah I noticed that too

[lilac stag]

So embrace a fight we’re good at

vs poo pooing it

[eternal abyss]

Sadly I'm clicking stuff in wrong order so I cant keep up more than 140k, meanwhile YT POV's doing 180-200k steady. crazy

[crystal bone]

not looking forward to paladins where i don't see myself on the meters for 100 pulls

[lilac stag]

and apparently in my raid, adds are never the concern for range.

[crystal bone]

[rugged condor]

Can probably add an extra 0 to that. Rogue on pally boss is beans

[lilac stag]

*always show me

[rugged condor]

I beat a dev dh only because they died and lost all their souls

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crystal bone]

yes i have that option on already but wasn't the point i was trying to make xD

[lilac stag]

show damage reduced by atrophic

Combine the two.

idk

It’s like pvp for a long time. We’re just there for our utility and let the mage blast

[hazy breach]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/823082725296701450/ezgif-3-662cd802c0f4.gif?ex=69d9ec05&is=69d89a85&hm=29c6605bdb3b58e02ab7b65a4cb539ce564262b7e957ea9d02b336df1b8d5b18&

Ancient memes return to relevance

[lilac stag]

Outlaw missing is perfect

I forgot about this one

[rich vale]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[crystal bone]

god damn that is ancient

[alpine wraith]

i love that one

i was there when the ancient texts were written

[chilly kite]

how tf do i get fear interrupts in chim mythic, when my grp has 2 mages and 2 dk's in it...

[lilac stag]

it’s reactionary

gg you have good reaction time

use numbing if you have boomer raid members doing interrupts

[chilly kite]

i'm just there for atro

and our lock forgets to curse

[lilac stag]

nah atro not needed

Numbing makes up for useless locks and kills the boss

[icy mulch]

More likely to wipe to a fear going off than to 3.6% dr

[lilac stag]

the healing is predictable

[chilly kite]

thats what i was thinking

[hazy breach]

Have your shamans pop down tremors

[lilac stag]

just pop WOTF

[chilly kite]

when a fear goes off in the down side does it hit everyone in up side too

[hazy breach]

No

[chilly kite]

k so its our ranged just missing the narnia fears

[lilac stag]

Undead time to shine

[civic lava]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

I’m sure there’s nothing to it but as soon as I swapped to numb I swear the fear spell que dropped down. Got way more bolts

[chilly kite]

yea if i'm in next week i'll do that

my dmg was ass, because i kept getting the dispel and our dispelers take ages

is there a fix for the 30 fps during raid fights thing? i'm over 200 then the second the fight starts i'm drilled down to 30 fps

[swift tinsel]

I bought a new cpu and that fixed it lol

went from 15-20fps to 50-60 during heavy effect portions

[warm marlin]

you only really need 4 total kicks hard assigned for each add set to completely trivialize the mechanic

[chilly kite]

i don't think i need anything new litterly every other game i can play max settings 4k native and be over 200 fps

[warm marlin]

your job as rogue can just be to kidney and cheap the two casters after the two kicks are used

[chilly kite]

thats what i assumed, and have been doing

[ornate ruin]

elite gif holy

[chilly kite]

trying to be cheeky and shs a kick is just bad from trying it, the dk's ranged interrupt always gets it first lol

[fast maple]

@chilly kite post your specs sar

[chilly kite]

AMD Ryyzen 9 5950x 16-core, 128 gigs memory, Nvidia Geforce RTX 3090 FE.

its a little dated but i'm trying to hold out till the 6 series cards to upgrade, capped out my ram on mobo

[swift tinsel]

yeah I went from a ryzen 9 5900x to an x3d and it made a world of difference

[fast maple]

Wow is mainly cpu bound

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[chilly kite]

is there no way to force it to put some of the load on my gpu

[fast maple]

Nop

[chilly kite]

god i hate blizzard

[swift tinsel]

even just being in silvermoon I tripled my fps

[chilly kite]

yea silvermoon i'm over 200 fps

litterly anywhere else xept raid

[swift tinsel]

on add spawn on imperator it wasn't uncommon to dip to 10-15fps with my ryzen 9 and with the 7 its average probs 60

[chilly kite]

like standing in chim raid before boss pull, 200+ fps, the second its engaged 30

[hazy breach]

That's for you

[swift tinsel]

yerp

a game made by gamers for cpu-ers

[lilac stag]

@warm marlin did you break 100k sim yet?

[chilly kite]

so litterly nothing i can do on my end other than a new pc basically, because my mobo is capped, i built this system for the 3090 launch 6 years ago, assumed i could get 10 years out of it.

[swift tinsel]

does your mobo support amd5

or is that what you mean by capped, only up to amd4

[chilly kite]

4

[swift tinsel]

oof

[chilly kite]

i can't even put ddr5 on my system

[swift tinsel]

was in the same boat, ended up getting a new mobo and ddr5

[chilly kite]

i mean 3090's are still over a grand i think just gotta sell my pc to a miner lol

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[warm marlin]

with supercharger added ye

[chilly kite]

crazy 6 year old card and they go for 1300 used

[swift tinsel]

gotta love ai/crypto

(you really don't fuck all of that stuff)

[cursive fulcrum]

how should i spend shadow dance inside of blades and outside of lust? I have 20% haste but sectech is still on cd for a little bit after the first dance. should i wait for sectech before dancing to supercharge (and have hella dance downtime in blades) or just send dance and press sectech asap?

[chilly kite]

what a good custom pc site, i bought mine from clx but there systems don't look all that updated

[swift tinsel]

idk I just frankenstein mine

[chilly kite]

i'm to lazy for that, and i don't wanna deal with anything not being compatible that i didn't think of

[oblique fable]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• **The first dance tracker

[hazy breach]

If sectech is not up and you are not in blades, you should never dance

You always line it up with something, since you lose literally nothing by delaying it

[cursive fulcrum]

no i mean if in blades and after you dance/sectech the first time. looks like the sim has us vanish then dance and sectech the third dance outside of blades

[hazy breach]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[cursive fulcrum]

Oh that's super interesting, thanks. I don't have that trinket yet but helps in both scenarios. Appreciate it

[mental saffron]

I've probably signed up for 200+ AA keys, i cant get a single invite. Anyone else having a bad time signing for keys?

[short radish]

Yes.

Its the same every season

Unless rogue is meta

[swift tinsel]

[short radish]

Which is rare

Also welcome to being a dps

[glad cosmos]

Ye ive been told that noone invites rogues cause we bring nothing to the table

[chilly kite]

guess i hold out till the blackwell 5090 TI comes out later this year lol

since thats the last gpu till 2028

[stiff stirrup]

No party buffs, utility or shroud not that important current routes so rogues only need big dam to get invites

[shrewd lantern]

That's how its been forever

[stiff stirrup]

and this season its kinda MID

[fast maple]

You can still update the rest of your computer

No point in waiting til then, if you can afford it now that is

[dense geode]

Are Whetstones just better if you are already at like 730~ haste has anyone simmed that or know

[shrewd lantern]

unless its bfa then every bad player tries to play outlaw

flashback to average player saying outlaw is so easy though

and their bad dps was only due to "bad rolls"

[chilly kite]

i mean true, would i be able to just put the 3090 into a new system tho? i've always just gotten completely new systems around my gpu lol

[fast maple]

Ye, pcie slots are fully backwards compatible without you needing to do anything tho

Don't take my word for it tho I'm just a random as far as you know, you can always cross reference through the internet

[lilac stag]

All we do is spam BP

[limpid sage]

AA is just the most cursed dungeon to increase score on

You can’t get in almost ever

[pliant pendant]

do deathstalker win in singeltarget ?

[vale pine]

yes, but not by much

[ember gale]

Would anyone be able to review my raid log and give any tips please? fairly new to sub 🙂 thanks

[keen dome]

I just can't do math so I don't even bother. Fuck it, numbers can figure it out themselves

[obsidian crag]

are we getting class tunning today?

[swift tinsel]

nah

[vale pine]

do a !log

[short aurora]

quick number flex

[obsidian crag]

leet

[azure thicket]

i dropped puzzle box at the start but we did it

[obsidian crag]

almost 1st

keep going

[azure thicket]

yeeeeeah

[keen dome]

a kill is a kill

[azure thicket]

i wonder who the other 5% are

dead or just puzzle box forgetters like myself

[keen dome]

Which boss was it

[azure thicket]

vorasius, other rogue in the raid hit my heroic parse

which is about 65 in myth good for them

[keen dome]

Hah

[west tide]

im making generational wealth omfg

[keen dome]

Big

[azure thicket]

can you share

[stuck arrow]

Bro DDH has the exact same pooling/burst feeling old Sub did. Feels amazing outside of like... Having cast times.

Y'all should try it.

[fathom adder]

you know what, i did not think i would like it

but is really fun, for me at least

sure, casting filler 5 trillion times is not the best, but the rest just flows

[signal heath]

so with puzzle box, every second blades you use it correct... i unno why some times my shit get unsynced

if puzzle isnt up do you stall for it

M+

[warm marlin]

got the same vibe

[stuck arrow]

It's so simple but it has so much like... Meaningful choices about how you use abilities & when you ramp.

Like literally 4 buttons, same rota in AoE/cleave and ST. But manages to make you think still.

But also like I'm pretty sure you'd do fine even if you zugzug'd it.

[warm marlin]

precasting void ray to prep eradicate, prechannel cstar into queued eradicate as adds spawn

same vibes as sectec coup in full flag burst from tww3

[ember gale]

!log

[stuck arrow]

And you can like snapshot abilities into and out of meta if you want to be cute. It's pretty cool.

The difference in love between Sub and Devourer is kinda wild.

[stuck arrow]

It's the same as Sub backstab soup to a degree.

But the windows feel much much better imo.

[plush roost]

Yeah but backstab soup let you kinda chill and do stuff

Mashing consume is actually mind numbing

Its actually my biggest turnoff with ddh

[warm marlin]

I don't think ours is a common take charrend but I do enjoy the backstab soup more than mashing a single button

much less stressful

[west arch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[stoic flower]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[warm marlin]

ddh would prob have half the playerbase it does if you just pressed consume once every 5s outside of cds instead and waited for resource

[void nebula]

DDH would have half the playerbase if it wasnt busted

[sharp sapphire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6NHntJyvSM

[stuck arrow]

Idk it's also just kinda fun & also lots of people play DH anyway.

[warm marlin]

DDH animations are soo sick I can't wait to alt that spec

It's the void stuff sub has always wanted

[void nebula]

Sure, but all those players would be playing Havoc instead if it were stronger.

[gleaming plank]

is heart of the wind generally the best passive trinket we can get from M+

or is it solarflare

[swift tinsel]

cstar and eradicate effects satisfying af

[stuck arrow]

Also might feel less good on not void elf TBH. Feels like the cast racial does work.

[raw frost]

is there any indication for coup de grace ?

cause i did 4 stacks of unseen blade and used eviscerate but , it was nothing unusual 😄

nothing happened

[sturdy torrent]

does perma tricks bug shit out? just had 2 runs in a row with mobs that perma evaded and bricked keys

and it was after wipes

[hazy breach]

Well that is it working like intended

You're tricksing the tank

[sturdy torrent]

Tricksing the whole dang server

[hazy breach]

If the tank releases he is still getting tricksed

[sturdy torrent]

yeah that seems like it

[ionic python]

how good is this ring for sub

[sturdy torrent]

i guess ill stop using perma tricks

[red flame]

is that a new bug? ive always used So Tricky & ive never had that issue happen

[keen dome]

My new Rogue complaint is none of the current tier daggers match our tier colours

[sturdy torrent]

im not sure, it only started happening today for me

[red flame]

mine is that they make banger tier sets then they make dog-ass tier sets 🙁

[keen dome]

I love the current tier set except for one part

But none of the daggers match it!

[red flame]

fair, i hate this one aesthetically

could be the helm mainly

[keen dome]

haha, I adore the helm

It's my fav set since Nerubar

[red flame]

duality of man

[red flame]

Nerubar was a fkn banger

my go-to xmog is TWW S1 Glad set

[jagged hamlet]

Think about gear this way, you need 700 haste, after that mastery>crit>vers. Gear just lets you move stats around but as long as you keep 700 haste anything is technically good and if you can't use it and move around other stats to keep 700 haste its a downgrade

[red flame]

the red version

[keen dome]

Hell yeah. Mine was also the TWW S1 but elite set, the purple one

[sturdy torrent]

preyseeker leather>tier

[keen dome]

If only it was the same shade of purple

[red flame]

although it bothered me a lot that we got K'areshi Phantom set in S1 & not in the Ghosts of K'aresh patch

[keen dome]

I'm still in my idiot camp of "They mixed up the S1 and S3 sets for Rogue somehow which is nonsense but"

[red flame]

same

no shot they didnt mix them up

MFO fits NP better & NP fits MFO perfectly

[lilac stag]

Helm & Poofy sleeves

L

[real belfry]

I've been told that the Great Vault raid rewards only come from bosses you've killed?

If I only kill H Chimerus x6 in a week (and no other bosses on this toon) does that mean 3 vault slots with Chimerus loot only?

[warm marlin]

each boss only counts once

[fathom adder]

no, every boss counts for one

[warm marlin]

so you wouldn't get a vault slot at all

[real belfry]

Thats what I thought but wasn't sure. So maybe going for like Chimerus and Imperator then just limiting that 1 slot to their loot tables

[swift tinsel]

that's one way to do it

[keen dome]

You can do it that way, yeah. Although it's pretty limiting.

Are you talking Myth or Heroic?

[lilac stag]

It’s perma active once you’ve killed a boss. Ie you killed through crown heroic that vault gear is always there

[swift tinsel]

solid trinket target farm to do that on mythic

but huge gamba on one vault slot

[keen dome]

Assuming you can get MythChim and MythImperator down, it's good value

[real belfry]

I've unfortunately full cleared heroic. Just have a guardian friend who doesn't raid but wants the Chimerus trink.

Thought there may be a way to game the vault slot to get a higher chance on it

[lilac stag]

Nah they killed that stuff in DF

[keen dome]

Their best bet is to just kill Imperator and Chim then yeah, but also it's kinda limiting gearing.

I'm not sure if Chim gives the first 4 bosses or not though

[lilac stag]

just keep gearing. don’t hyper focus on one item

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm unsure how that works between loot pools, if at all

[real belfry]

They're 3100 M+. I think you really only need the trinks out of raid, otherwise the rest you'll get from 7+s

[keen dome]

Yeah, I can't even test.

[keen dome]

If they want it super bad, make a heroic group and ask people to sell it to them to join ro something

[swift tinsel]

if chim is insular then that's one thing

but if its technically like..8th boss or whatever it is and opens the loot pool to all bosses from voidspire that would be funny

[keen dome]

I'll ahve to test when I get my alts to 90

Just go kill Normal Imperator and Chim and some other boss combos and see what drops after a few weeks of doing it

Just out of curiousity

[warm marlin]

I am mildly certain that killing a boss unlocks all the previous bosses within their raid

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel how’s augvoker going?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[keen dome]

It does, yes. The problem is Chim is standalone, soooo.

[swift tinsel]

I'm more curious how it works across raids

if it does at all

[swift tinsel]

its a vibe

[lilac stag]

But does Bird boss unlock Crown on mythic. Asking for sat melee hahaha

[keen dome]

Does it unlock Imperator/Voraius/Saladbar loot? Dwagons too? Paladins?

Ye, that's another thing I'm curious about

[warm marlin]

thats what i mean i dont think it does

killing chim unlocks chim only

[swift tinsel]

now that they relaxed how hard you rely on others for EM value/damage its pretty chill

[warm marlin]

killing beloren unlocks beloren only

[swift tinsel]

ye that's what I figured

[keen dome]

That's my feeling too but I'll try to spend some time checking

'Cos I am curious

[swift tinsel]

but wasn't 100% sure

[keen dome]

Someone let me kill MChim so I can do some science

[swift tinsel]

bc if you're just trying to get gaze/guidon then just killing chim and imperator myth is a pretty potent target farm for a single vault slot

[keen dome]

Too bad one of them is a lot harder than the other

[warm marlin]

yes my chances at gaze are pretty slim at this point

a lot of slop in my loot table

didnt roll it early gg

[swift tinsel]

Ive got my cozy warbound champ gaze

if I get hero/myth it'll 100% be from vault

[warm marlin]

supposely we got a big baller moneybags friend who is willing to buyout pugs so we can get heroic ones

its quite a big upgrade over my renown trinket

[red flame]

true & real

[keen dome]

I've seen a few MChim groups with someone going "I'll raid lead you to kill but I get Gaze if it drops" or offering to buy it haha

[lilac stag]

RL was considering skipping Chim heroic so we could focus on AOTC and I’m like your Loot Council would like a word with what 20 minutes of time offers as upgrades.

[keen dome]

Chim is such good value

[warm marlin]

thats just so crazy

[swift tinsel]

right thats like the one fight you should do first and foremost then open the rest of the week to prog

[red flame]

fr its actually diabolical

[lilac stag]

our tank also doesn’t have 4pc. They missed 2 weeks. lol

[warm marlin]

we have gotten ONE gaze total between 2 normal, 4 heroic, and 4 mythic splits

[swift tinsel]

and its not even a long fight on hc at all

[red flame]

tank missing 4pc & RL trying to skip hc Chim

[swift tinsel]

I think we've had 3x total between our one or two normals and 3 hc

[red flame]

thats rough

[warm marlin]

and 0 plumes from 2 heroic beloren kills

[lilac stag]

nope. Idk when we didn’t do it then mythic

[swift tinsel]

some folks burned a reserve on the normal one lol

[lilac stag]

I just worry about LC

a good little ninja watching his treasures

[keen dome]

I've killed Chim a lot of times due to trialing with a few groups and helping friends, lemme check.. 6x Normal, 6x Heroic. I have seen Gaze drop 1 out of all of those combined.

[red flame]

i think we've had 2 drop across all difficulties

[warm marlin]

i wouldn't even feel right taking any of the first like 5 that have dropped

we need to drop like 5 gazes before I can take one

rogue is so bad its not worth giving one to me

[swift tinsel]

our first hc kill had 2 drop and zero since

[lilac stag]

I’ll go through tomorrow and droptimizer every raider to show don’t skip heroic chim

[red flame]

also have had 1 guidon drop on norm across all kills

[swift tinsel]

yep same

[red flame]

im stuck w champ Guidon & champ Radiant Plume

[swift tinsel]

our first imperator normal dropped guidon then never again

[red flame]

feelsbad

[warm marlin]

we've had not joking 8 mythic agi polearms

[lilac stag]

ngl I got lucky guidon last week. Daggie this week.

[keen dome]

Yeah. 2x normal IMperator, 6 x Heroic, 2 x Mythic and I've seen a single normal Guidon in all that time (and i'm using it atm)

[swift tinsel]

we get crazy mail and plate boots/belts

[lilac stag]

So 8 shards

[swift tinsel]

and every bow/gun

[keen dome]

I hate WoW's loot system

[red flame]

so fucking real

[swift tinsel]

its been so shit this tier

especially

[red flame]

where are our bonus rolls

[keen dome]

coming in 12.0.5

[lilac stag]

I don’t remember. Do we get a vendor? Or is it just bonus rolls

[keen dome]

Bonus rolls to start with I think?

[red flame]

rolls i think

[keen dome]

And also you can then upgrade heroic / myth trinkets and weapons with a special item eventually

[red flame]

im actually so stoked for bonus rolls coming back. was such a good system

[keen dome]

I think Myth caps at 298

[swift tinsel]

yep

[red flame]

actual bad luck protection somewhat

[warm marlin]

the real question is why do both vorasius and chim drop 2H agi polearms

[south elbow]

Does Cloak work as a solo soak for Beloren soaks?

[warm marlin]

so we can get 2 from each each week

[keen dome]

Bonus rolls are just rng on rng but I don't disagree, I'm glad they're back. It's an extra chance.

[lilac stag]

SV tier, oh wait they want daggers

[keen dome]

And personal

[swift tinsel]

vora also dropping dagger, pure sv boss

[keen dome]

I've yet to see a Vora dagger drop

But I do have a Baloren dagger

[red flame]

SV using daggers now is my 13th reason

[swift tinsel]

my evoker got it on a transmog roll in lfr this morning lol

[red flame]

thank fuck our hunters arent SV

[keen dome]

It's indestructable so it's a good drop

[lilac stag]

They will be

[swift tinsel]

but I think we've seen 3 hc daggers and 2 normal?

[wraith sphinx]

I've seen two vora daggers drop and both went to our sv hunters

[swift tinsel]

our sv hunter loot hoovers weapons on vora

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-im-done-time-to-go-gif-18465294

[swift tinsel]

yoinked both hc dagger and polearm

[keen dome]

hell yeah team indestrcutable

big gold saving

[warm marlin]

nah that's devious work

[wraith sphinx]

Sv hunters are on my list

[keen dome]

the day I lose a dagger to a hunter is the day I go offline

[wraith sphinx]

They used to be my homies

[red flame]

so real, id crash tf out

[swift tinsel]

I did on normal lol

[red flame]

they have options, sub + sin literally does not

[lilac stag]

I sent heroic daggers to our hunters so they stayed the fuck away from mythic one. Hahah

[swift tinsel]

but I had a haste/crit champ dagger att

and crafted myth wep a few days later lol

[keen dome]

I wonder how Mythic is gonna feel in like 3 - 4 weeks time in pugs

If the raid buff is 1% each week it's gonna be pretty nice.

But I don't know for sure 'cos it looks like a placeholder

[lilac stag]

The rise of assa execute timings

[keen dome]

oh no

[red flame]

i hope by that time our guild attempts mythic xd

[keen dome]

I hope I have 3/9M by then

So I can easily rekill and return to idling and playing other games

[lilac stag]

I’d take you on our guild run if you weren’t on the better side of the pond

[keen dome]

Alas

I imagine I can get Vora on reset without much issue. I came close this week but it's just tedium of wipe wipe wipe with pugs then someone leaves

MChim is just getting into the group

[red flame]

how hard is M chim realistically

like comparable to last szn

[lilac stag]

the interrupts are bad

pugs worst nightmare

[keen dome]

I can only talk from a pugging perspective but I forsee it being a kick issue into a people not looking where they are standing.

[warm marlin]

you need minimum 4 people on each side being hard assigned to kicking a specific mob

[keen dome]

Yeah

[warm marlin]

and healers lost their kicks

[lilac stag]

and it’s a quick cast

[warm marlin]

and ye its a 1s cast for some reason

[lilac stag]

numbing goes hard

[red flame]

that sounds painful

[lilac stag]

cause warlocks suck

[keen dome]

As our DPS increases, we'll be able to get by with less strain in pugs 'cos stuff will die faster so less kicks needed etc.

[red flame]

i'll defo keep that in mind

[keen dome]

But i imagine if kicks are done properly the boss shouldn't be too difficult in a pug

But that is a monumental if.

[red flame]

im hoping it doesnt take us ages to start mythic & that we can down Chim, i'd love to vault M Gaze

or bonus roll it by that point

[warm marlin]

ideally it's like 1 dk on each side to grip the closer ranged add then kick it, have one other melee assigned as the second kick. one mage or evoker hard assigned to kick the far ranged add in, a second ranged kick assigned for second fear, could be a melee kick depending on what you have

[naive creek]

Am I supposed to be tracking shadow techniques, AA, and coupe for any reason or just let everything occur naturally?

[keen dome]

Def feels like DK's are really good for the fight if not borderline mandatory in most groups.

Esp in pugging.

Since you have so much more freedom in your comp for pugging, I'd probably just take 4 DK's haha

[warm marlin]

yeah just skipping the ranged kick on other add and double gripping is good too

#gripisnotaraidbuff

[red flame]

#atrophicisnotaraidbuff

[vale pine]

don't worry, people can miss important casts in guild keys as well

[keen dome]

If I put my own group together I'm probably doing 4 DK's and 4 warlocks

Just 1 rogue

[red flame]

me hitting my copium & wishing on a star for a 3% Crit + 3% Avoidance raid buff for rogue:

[keen dome]

🙏

If we all hope hard enough

[red flame]

if we all write ion a strongly worded letter

[keen dome]

Just a polite forum post

And a lot of posting in here talking about it

Because I bet they still check the class discords for our VERY GOOD IDEAS like Poison Toggle.

[red flame]

if we spam it like the "stand in city like npc" meme

ive seen somebody say the crit thing before & i agree, a crit raid buff is very thematic

& imo avoidance would be too, plus a tertiary stat raid buff would be sick as fuck

[dusky yacht]

I prefer mine

Manifest guidon (龍花山海風)
Parse powerfully (電火空星月)
Bring pride to raidleader (虎雲雷川森)
Spread genetic information (夢雪天光石)

[red flame]

who wouldnt want 3% crit + avoidance

rogue would prob see a lot more play

[keen dome]

The problem with Avoidance is it's the same as Atrophic.

[vagrant fossil]

A 3% raid crit buff would make 1 rogue mandatory

[keen dome]

You want to kill the boss fast.

More damage does that. So that's why Crit is such a hopeful idea.

[red flame]

same as any other class buff tho

[keen dome]

Also Avoidance doesn't work with everything iirc

[red flame]

3% crit is infinitely more useful than atro

[warm marlin]

make it a 3% crit buff that stacks for each rogue in the raid so it rivals hunter buff

[red flame]

fair

[vagrant fossil]

I mean, even at 1 or 2% it would make people want them generally

[red flame]

i just figured avoidance would be more useful than leech or speed

& seems more thematic to rogue

tertiary seems cool for a raid buff idk

[keen dome]

Tetiary have issues of value. Just slam the crit% buff

Bam we're in everything

[red flame]

oooh that sounds dope

[keen dome]

However Sprint should give everyone a +100% movespeed for 2 seconds when we use it

Expressly so I can make people run off edges

[red flame]

valid point honestly

[red flame]

my fav thing to do as rogue in WM is throw distract at somebody & make them run off the edge

[keen dome]

Crit is also the safest because it benefits everybody no matter what. Mastery isn't good for everyone and scales weirdly. haste is.. yeah. Versatility is also kinda w/e, but better than haste/mastery imo. But everyone benefits from Critting More. Healers, tanks, DPS.

And the design goal should be "A rogue is benefical to every group regardless of damage tuning outside of niche scenarios"

Which would be achieved with the crit buff imho

[warm marlin]

until they release a boss that's immune until a damage amp phase where it gives you a 100% crit chance

[keen dome]

Hahaha

Okay I have a fix for that

Crit over 100% becomes Crit Damage.

[lilac stag]

I’ll take that risk

[keen dome]

B A M.

We're still in.

[red flame]

something else this made me think of:

it could either be the like 3% crit chance buff
or
what if its like 1-2% more crit dmg & then it stacks for each rogue like you were saying

[lilac stag]

I don’t want crit. I was crit dmg

[warm marlin]

or when the fateful raid tier comes where you play 10 fire mages

[red flame]

bc realistically youre still only bringing 1 or 2

[warm marlin]

and they have perma combust

[red flame]

youre not stacking a raid of rogues yk

[lilac stag]

Tomb of Soakgaras and Zul disagree

[keen dome]

Crit Damage isn't a bad idea either and is possibly safer than crit% chance.

[warm marlin]

not that either of those are likely scenarios in any way

I like crit chance

[red flame]

id be fine w crit chance or dmg

[keen dome]

Crit Magnitude is probably a better wording for it since we don'tt end to consider Dam = Bigger Heals

[red flame]

the stacking thing is dope

i fw that

[warm marlin]

crit damage is a bit scary because it scales with season as we gain more secondaries

[red flame]

& feels thematic

[keen dome]

Yeee

[dusky yew]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

maybe its too weak season 1

[red flame]

idr what those tiers were like, didnt rlly raid either of them ; assuming it was rogue heavy?

[warm marlin]

it's a play on how atrophic used to stack, but it would be incredibly broken if a crit chance raid buff stacked, no chance they do that

[lilac stag]

You could do a 2% crit + 1% crit dmg or scale the crit dmg percent based on missing health

[keen dome]

Are we sure the atrophic stacking was intentional, though. I thought it was?

[warm marlin]

I don't think it was but not sure

[keen dome]

2% crit + 1% Crit Dam would be fantastic, imo. it covers it all.

[red flame]

i like this a lot

[warm marlin]

A raid buff should never incentivize you to take more than 1 of a class anyway

those ones are poorly designed

[keen dome]

Yeah

LIKE DEATH KNIGHTS

[red flame]

guys i have an idea
we harass blizzard to replace the rogue class designer w a council of rogues from Ravenholdt so we get actual cool stuff

[lilac stag]

good thing they don’t have a raid buff

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/rpx-syria-mic-drop-gif-19149907

[warm marlin]

dk, hunter, warlock, evoker

[plucky pier]

Give Rogues Death Grip

[warm marlin]

A raid buff should never be 0-X amount of classes hard required should just be 1

[keen dome]

But then you'd have to deal with players harassing you constantly

[warm marlin]

hunter is now particularly disgusting because its 1-X hard required

[red flame]

i would actually love it if sub rogue had the scorpion "get over here" thing

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/mortal-kombat-scorpion-get-over-here-mk11-mortal-kombat11-gif-17129778

[keen dome]

The second they give that to a Rogue is the second they stop putting grippable adds in boss fights.

[red flame]

fair but block button go brrrrr

[plucky pier]

The fact that blizzard designs a bunch of pass fail mechanics that only one class can bring is dumb. So I want death grip

[indigo breach]

Too hard to balance with enough diversity to make it fun. Better to just make playing multiple classes easier

[red flame]

yea agreed
& the scorpion chain grip would be super fitting w the ninja theme imo

[keen dome]

Funny thought of being able to play multiple classes on one character and Death Knight

"Hang on guys I need to go die and swap to my other class"

"hang on lemme just take my eyes out and go DH"

[shrewd lantern]

idk why dks use the raidbuff argument

technically evokers barely have one

blessing of the bronze stinks

[keen dome]

Rescuing people off the edge is a raid buff

[lucid jackal]

If death grip isn't a raid buff give rogue death grip

[dusky yacht]

equips vision of sargeras and tops dps charts lmao dh op

[warm marlin]

time spiral is good on a lot of fights

[shrewd lantern]

half the evoker value is taxi your priest around

[warm marlin]

and rescue

[keen dome]

off the edge

[shrewd lantern]

yeah im talking their explicit raid buff

[warm marlin]

oh yeah that thing stinks

[stuck arrow]

Guy is out here just spitting straight facts

[warm marlin]

doesn't exist

their raid buff is time spiral and rescue

[lilac stag]

Guys if we get death grip outlaw will get very confused if they’re coming or going between grapple and grip. Don’t wish that upon them.

[shrewd lantern]

for the priests

[red flame]

thats what they get for playing outlaw

[shrewd lantern]

[warm marlin]

they're in the same category as dk and warlock

[shrewd lantern]

lets not pretend priest is the rescue recipient

90% of the time

[plucky pier]

They should design Atrophic poison like death grip "If you dont have 3 sources of Atrophic poison on the target at all times then your raid instantly explodes" 🙂

[warm marlin]

their buff sucks until it doesnt and you bring 2-4 of them

[lilac stag]

Just give priests rocket jump at this point

[shrewd lantern]

warlock you technically only need 1

until more gates is nice

or their damage profile is just good

[lilac stag]

so every tier

[shrewd lantern]

also being the most durable dps

ever

[lilac stag]

oh did I leave burning rush on? I didn’t notice

[warm marlin]

warlock at least has the possibility of being dropped entirely if gate is bad and the fight is a dps check and healthstones arent required

[shrewd lantern]

good thing they keep making bosses

[warm marlin]

(which is again stupid please make every class have a one of raid buff)

[shrewd lantern]

where its a qol to grip adds in

:)

multiple pallies is qol on vanguard

to have one conc aura

for the chuds that get silenced

[gritty vortex]

is trickster and deathstalker the same rotation?

[red flame]

trick goes into dance w full CP & has sectec macroed w dance
ds goes into dance w no or low cp & has shuri storm macroed w dance

[keen dome]

Damn, they know about Sub rogue

[cloud barn]

are there any solid m+ communities out there for keys? I'm not saying I'm good and I still have a lot of room for improvement, but I also don't want to join 12+'s and finish with this as overall dmg the entirety of the key

[keen dome]

Make friends with people you think did a good job in keys and run keys with them. It's a powerful technique

[hushed roost]

rizz your tank

[cloud barn]

be likeable and be hot

noted

[alpine veldt]

am i seeing things or are the top parse rogues all weapon swapping to legion daggers for secret technique?

[keen dome]

In what way? Like, physically swapping their weapons mid-combat or the model swapping..?

[alpine veldt]

seems like it.. posting a screenshot

this was the first part of the tipoff

[keen dome]

I don't really see it?

[alpine veldt]

hang tight. 1 sec

Akaari's soul 1, then 2. seems like they're weapon swapping right before, then popping ST, then switching back

i don't want to post the guy's logs because it's not my place, but i'm sure they're easy to find

[keen dome]

Akaari's Soul is just the name of the non-physical part of SecTec 'cos it's technically pet damage or some weird shit.

That's entirely normal

[vale pine]

i am akaari's soul

supporting you in combat

[keen dome]

No, Akaari's Soul is the 21st raider

[alpine veldt]

lol

[vale pine]

(jokes aside, as igestalt mentioned, its just shadow clone attacks)

[torn tide]

woah!!

[ivory orchid]

Akari is the dude that never makes raid consistently but gets bis in vault every week

[vale pine]

okay, thats not me then

[ivory orchid]

I have yet to get a single chest or legs in raid or mythic plus

[alpine veldt]

ok, looks like it's not from a weapon swap.. appreciate you all .. ty for saving me the legion artifact weapon grind 😛

[ivory orchid]

30 bracers

[keen dome]

Back in DF there was a log attributon issue where it wasn't attirbuting Akaari to the Rogue casting SecTec.

And you'd have the log with an extra player called Akaari's Soul

[jade oasis]

meanwhile the feral i play with is doing 2 mill dps in aoe while degrading me

[keen dome]

Who would, amazingly, sometimes out DPS actual players

[ornate ruin]

[shrewd lantern]

hasnt sectech been coded as akari’s soul since bfa?

[ivory orchid]

Does blizz code?

[keen dome]

Yeah

[alpine veldt]

i played classic then

[ivory orchid]

I thought it was ChatGPT

[alpine veldt]

err, maybe not then

[keen dome]

I have gotten into a single Mythic Chimarius pug so far and it didn't look hopeful:

[alpine veldt]

but didn't do much in bofa

[keen dome]

Then they demanded we use voice comm on discord without making it obvious while assembling the group s that was a good 45 minutes wasted

[ivory orchid]

Damn the be good expectation seems to get less strict the longer you wait too

[tidal solstice]

goes from have skill to have a pulse

[narrow tendon]

the one and only john akaari

[cloud barn]

I want this

Over what I’m getting

Degrade me and force me to better myself

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i mean assa can still cast kb

while no longer having garona's daggers

etc

no idea what happened with outlaw thouhg

[keen dome]

We got it

[shrewd lantern]

they just lost their demon cursed ghost pirate cutlasses

[keen dome]

[shrewd lantern]

[keen dome]

And cannon barrage

bring back cannon barrage

[shrewd lantern]

they doomed it leaving it on the same row

as alacrity

but also, sub artifact being just

"here take these random felhound teeth"

[keen dome]

I kinda wish I could've stayed for one pull in that pug 'cos they didn't invite a single DK, in hindsight..

It would've been funny

[shrewd lantern]

then again i dont remember lore signficance of dk weapons

besides the frost one

Before legion launched i half expected them to give outlaw some old relic of vancleef's

[charred rock]

god i wish.

[flat wyvern]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tidal solstice]

it regularly doesnt use coup de grace for like 2-3 presses

so sure if you just wanna brain off and not have it for a few globals. better to press evisc ime

[white briar]

This might be because you're not in range?

[smoky prawn]

does coup and eviscerate count as different attacks with danse macabre?

[spice crag]

It works 1000% of the time unless you are out of melee range. And if youre out of melee range that often your dps sucks to begin with 🤣

[gritty vortex]

what are these black parenthesis for?

[livid wing]

Hi i see 700 haste cap on trickster still ok ?

[spice crag]

Apex talent read it, ancient arts

[coral pier]

Haste is what has me confused in AOE situations, this stat has me almost all over the place. I dont understand how much I am supposed to have for M+

[white briar]

Apex, means you have a second finisher

[coral pier]

consider it as "next combo point spender is refunded"

[spice crag]

Its the same. Between st and aoe you would swap crit for mastery (generally) depending on your overall gear and stats. You still want the haste breakpoint for gcds during dance

[coral pier]

so increase crit in ST situations ? for haste ive got the Guidon which insane in raids.

[gritty vortex]

so basically press your spender twice

[coral pier]

yep

[gritty vortex]

ez

[lilac stag]

It’s also good for keys

[coral pier]

dont intentionally do that, u may get a Coup de grace proc

[lilac stag]

just shift crit to mastery in keys

[coral pier]

use it a bit slower just to quick check if its available or not

[coral pier]

aye aye o7

[spice crag]

Typically. I mean hit the haste breakpoint then prio mastery/crit. It does NOT matter that much for m+. As long as you have the haste then youre good for st and aoe. Once you have the haste required just try to fill with mastery/crit pieces.

[gritty vortex]

oh coup de crack is prio over pressing spender a 2nd time?

[spice crag]

Coup is a spender too.

[swift tinsel]

coup is a spender

[spice crag]

Eviscerate becomes coup.

[gritty vortex]

ohhhh true man you guys are geniuses

ima go ahead and leave coup da crack on its own so I don't fuck myself

[stone vessel]

windrunner's feathers good right?

[keen dome]

It's an okay stopgap until Guidon, iirc. It's 2 minutes, so not ideal.

[tidal solstice]

its onthe dummies in silvermoon i can replicate it consistently but go off king

serc ill take a video

here ya go

first try

it ate 4 blackpowders before spending CDG