subtlety

[left ledge]

just go algethar first pull

[bleak night]

sub shouldnt have a single aoe button

[left ledge]

[bleak night]

0 cleave 0 aoe

but 3x the st of the next spec

[left ledge]

we just have damage every 20 sec

[bleak night]

[left ledge]

thats our specialty

[left ledge]

how about 0 of everything and we take away your only aoe cc that was tied to your only free ST stop

[bleak night]

deal

https://klipy.com/gifs/maksas-the-cat-deal

[left ledge]

like fr it is so obvious when they want to make a spec bad

but i just dont understand why

is it just like spinning wheel

its not like we even have some fundamental design flaw that needs fixing

our numbers just suck ass

[swift tinsel]

I think it goes a bit deeper than just our numbers being ass

if you look at the heroic all percentiles chart its just literally harder to be bad at sub than other specs

[bleak night]

finally a spec for me

[left ledge]

thats not about harder to be bad

[swift tinsel]

which conversely means its also harder for being good at it to mean anything, once you get above the percentiles where being good at it or having skill expression (or a niche that you can exploit better than other specs) it starts to look really bad

which is exactly what happens as you look at higher percentiles and into mythic

[dark wagon]

Can we dungeon slice sim?

[left ledge]

its just sub has an easier time living

so there's less shit parses aggregating in all percentiles

[short radish]

nonono we excel at the niche of one single gcd of aoe damage

[left ledge]

ah yes

[warm marlin]

it's good at padding on little slop and when kill timers are short and in pure st

[frosty sinew]

yes

[left ledge]

let me wait 5 years for the mobs to get grouped

so sectec can hit them

oh wait

the mobs died before they got grouped

nice

[short radish]

[left ledge]

NICE

NICE ONE

[bleak night]

wheres rik when you need him

[short radish]

it's good on lura

[swift tinsel]

if you look at the tail though its remarkably short compared to the other dps specs

[short radish]

[swift tinsel]

which means theres fewer shitters dragging down the average

[left ledge]

yes because its harder to die on sub

so there's less abhorent parses

you can notice this trend generally with specs that die less

although it also has to do with variance

some specs just have more variance

[swift tinsel]

yes but also look at the range between upper and lower quartiles

its condensed as fuck

[left ledge]

sry this is all players

[left ledge]

yeah but this is the case for specs without crazy variance that dont die much

look at unholy

[bleak night]

arcane always makes me laugh

silly mages

[warm marlin]

prot pala

[left ledge]

sub rogue just...

doesnt really have variance

we literally do not proc anything other than coup

which is nowhere near as strong as it was

[swift tinsel]

our raid leader died on what would have been out alleria kill and I had to say we got gingi'd

[left ledge]

so i mean you're right in a way, it is harder to be bad at sub

and on that note before i pass out gotta get this off my chest

i seriously hate this deepening shadows update shit with guidon

waiting for the tick so we can extend our dance duration, it wasnt that annoying at first

but its just extremely annoying now

[swift tinsel]

haste extended dance in general is not fun and guidon just makes it feel worse

but hey its what we're stuck with bc they cba to iterate since November

[left ledge]

i dont think i would mind it much if i didnt have to wait tbh

but sometimes im just talking to someone, doing mechanics

and my cds come up

[swift tinsel]

think of the foot traffic reduction in here without people asking if they have enough haste

[left ledge]

and i press them how im used to pressing cds and trinket on every other fucking class including this spec since the dawn of time

[swift tinsel]

or asking why sims don't want haste

[left ledge]

and i lose dance duration

[short radish]

this is acutally probably the most cursed part of this

is that for once we can't say "trust the sims"

or sim yourself for everything

[swift tinsel]

simming is a pain now

so I just don't

[short radish]

ye

i just vibe

[swift tinsel]

same

[short radish]

700ish haste

and mastery/crit

[swift tinsel]

yeah I aim for 680-700 and swap some shit if I have to

but I'm also vehemently against breakpoint gearing in general

and knew this was going to be something I was not going to enjoy

[gray wedge]

But now you can finally play the game

https://tenor.com/view/cartman-now-we-can-finally-play-the-game-gif-26486523

[swift tinsel]

its why I raid log on my rogue and enjoy playing my not-rogues

and I will do only enough guild 10's to get 3x vault slots

I really dont enjoy this class

[bleak night]

i decided to play spriest instead of rogue long before i even saw all of this play out

but damn did i make the right choice

[swift tinsel]

I was one and 7/8's feet out the door and going to play unholy dk

[plush olive]

I think 2nd best thing I coulda got out of H cache for weekly

[swift tinsel]

but gearing would have been nightmareish with our raid comp

[gray wedge]

How is shadow feeling? It's my only other 90 but I'm bad at keeping alts parallel with my main

[gray wedge]

gz, what did you want instead?

[bleak night]

its fun

didnt change all too much from tww

[gray wedge]

I do have fun with it

[plush olive]

the neck from cosmos

[bleak night]

so it still kinda feels like an actual spec

[small vortex]

Gz! I got a cloak and chest!

[bleak night]

still simpler than it was but flows well

[gray wedge]

[plush olive]

honestly the ring is easier to swing cus its so big on mastery and the haste is just enough to keep me at 700

[gray wedge]

I am starving for haste right now

The ring from MGT would fix me

mostly

[lilac stag]

or drop haste and use flask

[plush olive]

wait can we add 2nd socket to shit? thought they removed multi sockets

[swift tinsel]

March on Queldanas jewelry has two sockets

[lilac stag]

Can someone explain this to our elemental shaman?

[lilac stag]

Headset destruction level?

[plush olive]

oh shit didn't see that

[swift tinsel]

I’m 95% sure he stood up and walked away for a bit lmao

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

It was a sub-1% wipe

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

Like 0.1% iirc

[lilac stag]

unluck

our range were terrorists tonight

[swift tinsel]

Ours finally kinda got the dance

[plush olive]

just tonight?

[swift tinsel]

Arrows in p2 were quite rough

[lilac stag]

Worse than usual

[swift tinsel]

Folks had a really hard time seeing them in the spell effect deathball

And didn’t know how to orient themselves to hit adds

[lilac stag]

idk maybe new players. not sure. Considering we did NK and Demensius, saladbar 2.0 should have died this reset.

[swift tinsel]

So it’s probs good I got most sets lol

[lilac stag]

That’s interesting

[swift tinsel]

Yeah idk

It was better than Tuesday but still quite rough

Had feathers spawn along the outer edge a bunch and people were tunnel visioning and died to that

Like a lot

Bc there were zero along the chasm

And looking is hard ig

[lilac stag]

reminder, rotations are easier.

had a good glow up. boots to cata and indestructible mythic daggie. 278 now

HUGE gold savings.

[plush olive]

indestructible dagger is fucking big

its a meme in my raid team that my dagger is broken

cus it happened thrice in prog

[lilac stag]

it’s criminal how fast they turn broken

[plush olive]

yeah it was a big change needing to repair so often when I swapped

from like every 5-6 wipes to every third pull

[limpid sage]

I never noticed them breaking actually

Do they really break faster?

[limpid jacinth]

if you're using Guidon, how many seconds before do you use it getting into shadow blades+dance?

[frosty sinew]

1s

[limpid sage]

It can take up to a sec before deepening shadows updates iirc

So ye 1 sec

[frosty sinew]

just use it right after the global before dancing

[lucid jackal]

imagine blades is on the GCD

thats how u do it

[tribal blade]

yes incredibly fast

this was the first time in like several expacs i had a dagger break mid key

i had to put my OH in my MH and use only 1 dagger for the rest of 3rd boss in AA

[fallow nimbus]

I look at sectec cd and press guidon when there is 1 sec left, outside of opener

Or dance cd

[tribal blade]

could macro an ability into guidon that gives you a gcd

[fallow nimbus]

Detection time

[tribal blade]

let's see

oh shit detection gives gcd

[limpid sage]

Arcane mages used some item in Aberrus that gave them half a second of gcd I think

[fallow nimbus]

Aka swirly ball

[lucid jackal]

/cast detection
/cast shadow blades
/use 13
/use 14

[limpid sage]

Maybe we do that

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna try it out

[fallow nimbus]

Nah
/cast Detection /cast 13 and blades swifty macro

[tribal blade]

is detection exactly 1 gcd?

must be right

[fallow nimbus]

We don't want to waste 1 precious blades second

[limpid sage]

Shouldn’t it be

/use 13
/castsequence detection, shadow blades

[tribal blade]

you would macro detection into guidon

[fallow nimbus]

That's for 1 button yes

But we want to start everything with another button since we now have solved guidon

[limpid sage]

Yeah I was just thinking anything else feels clunky

[teal prawn]

its hasted actually

[tribal blade]

is it?

[teal prawn]

I'm like 90% sure

[tribal blade]

the gcd does look faster than usual

[lucid jackal]

fine, guidon shiv

[teal prawn]

[fallow nimbus]

Time to log analyze detection gcd

[shrewd lantern]

are there any povs

of this shit spec on cosmos

[ivory orchid]

Yes on twitch watching other specs

[west tide]

dude we are lowkey good on alleria

good ahh on the 3rd add and then the rest of the fight we crank her

[frosty sinew]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2738963591

[shrewd lantern]

yeah it was funny how many guilds i had to scroll down on rio

for a link

[frosty sinew]

fight is not fun

rather do pallies than cosmos

[lapis berry]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sick arrow]

Where can I post for log help?

[fiery fog]

Get the garrison forge buff to not lose any durability for 4 hours (goes away if you die but just dont?)

[tribal blade]

big brain

[fiery fog]

Im actually using it regularly

[fiery fog]

I think its somewhat fine (could be better) but after trying out devourer for a little bit i gotta say rogue really needs some love
(Devourer has like everything you could want)

3 dashes with 20sec recharge time per charge
Simple apex you dont have to play around because it plays itself
Utility
An actual good raidbuff
And what not

[jade oasis]

casual addict might make me a sin believer

[charred thunder]

I’m wondering if anybody has any thoughts about coordinating shadow dance with shadow blades. Of course we try to use them together but pretty universally by the middle of a boss there’s only one shadow dance to use with shadow blades instead of two, meaning half the duration of shadow blades doesn’t have shadow dance up. Is there any value to waiting for two charges of shadow dance to do our burst window, or is that just stupid?

It feels like it would be a dps loss to me but I’m laying in bed after parsing green on mythic vorasius wondering if that’s the missing link 😂💀

[native zodiac]

You should always double dance and double sectech in blades

If you dont have 2 dances for blades you messed up before

[charred thunder]

Hmm I’m not sure the math adds up on that, it seems to me there will be many times where shadow blades comes up when there is only one dance coming off cooldown just based on how the cooldowns are offset

Like there are 4.5 dance cooldowns in one shadowblades cooldown so there will always be a gap if you use dance on cd to buff available sectech

That doesn’t mean you couldn’t wait for two dances to come up, but that’s my question, is that a dps loss or gain to do.

[shadow lance]

You're prolly sending a dance too much

[fiery fog]

This likely happens when you dont have guidon and send the second dance in blades too early

[charred thunder]

I basically just send it when either A.) There is a sectech to use with it or B.) There is both sectech and shadowblades to send with it

[shadow lance]

Don't send if you got 10 sec left on SB

[charred thunder]

That’s a good tip

[shadow lance]

Better delay dance a bit than SB

[charred thunder]

That actually makes perfect sense.

[vast scarab]

i've created fork for @cursive tundra First Dance addon, adding support for Masque + drag/drop support for icon placement (with pull request pending)

[charred thunder]

Like I said I’m parsing constantly purple, orange, sometimes pink in normal and heroic but now that I’m mythic progging things are more blue and sometimes green and I’m getting annoyed, so maybe the timing makes the difference

Actually I’m certain it does

[shadow lance]

Read FAQ, you might find some optimization

Check lorrgs

You'll see went you should send your dances

[charred thunder]

Well all those so far are crazily useful

I know my current problems are sometimes I brainlessly send low spenders or gain too many cp (apparently I’m inefficient with about 2% of my spender casts so that’s bad) and this timing thing is very helpful

Somehow I missed that in the faq so that’s excellent, ty for the help

[shadow lance]

No problem sir

[jovial agate]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[buoyant shale]

Question about Guidon on pull: It takes you out of stealth when using the trink so so you use it on 1 on the pull timer or open with shadow strike, the guidon and dance a second later

[frosty sinew]

open with shadowstrike

using guidon right after shadowstrike

then use dance+sec tec next global

[native zodiac]

Can also make a macro for only pull where it uses guidon with the shadowstrike

Thats what i did

[frosty sinew]

what about when you want to use your next blades

[barren haven]

Get to full cp pop trinket add brainlog pop cds

[frosty sinew]

guess you are just waiting with fuill cp usually

for later ones

[vale pine]

Unclear what you mean with waiting for later ones

[tribal blade]

yes you always go into blades with full CP

[frosty sinew]

as in later trinket / cd uses

vs opener where you are shadowstriking straight into cds

[tribal blade]

yes you always go into blades with full CP

[frosty sinew]

yes i know

[undone ridge]

guys i really couldnt find an answer in the talent tree

but what move or ability does apply slice and dice

passively

eviscrate?

[keen dome]

yep

It's in your spell book.

[undone ridge]

ill have to look in again

[keen dome]

All 3 specs have it passively

[undone ridge]

thanks brother

[final gulch]

W change tbh

[undone ridge]

so i dont have to use it actively?!

[undone ridge]

its good yh

[keen dome]

You don't, o

You can get rid of it on your bars if you want. Wej ust have it running after our first finisher now.

[undone ridge]

i can literally put that button aside for somethine else huh

[keen dome]

Or you can keep it for something to push

[final gulch]

that was one of the only times they removed a button and i liked it

snd upkeep was just lame

[undone ridge]

im also a big fan

im trying to work on autoattacking enemies more

feel like i have no autoattack dmg

and im melee

[final gulch]

you shouldn't have to do that

thats just uptime in general

[undone ridge]

i see

[final gulch]

any time you're on boss you're autoing

[tribal blade]

should just be a passive at this point

[undone ridge]

yeah

[final gulch]

it's not really something you have to think about

[undone ridge]

okay okay

[final gulch]

more importantly just try to constantly keep your global rolling (unless holding globals for dance/cd pop in a few seconds or w/e)

[undone ridge]

makes sense bro

thanks

for ur insight guys

ive been finding alot more success when spamming shadowstrike to proc ancient arts

and then spending

instead of spending asap

[tribal blade]

only do that with supercharged CP

not on every finisher

[undone ridge]

may i ask why is that the case?

[tribal blade]

it's not worth doing on non SC finishers

[keen dome]

Anime-charged Combie is massively stronger and you want to make it EVEN stronger

Whereas on the non-SC finishers you are going to just be wasting a GCD in dance

[tribal blade]

you're overcapping CP so the trade off not worth unless it's supercharged

[undone ridge]

okay so i prio proc ancient arts when i have my shadow dance up for my spenders

outside of that i generate and spend normally

[final gulch]

only for the first 2

[tribal blade]

only for the blue combo points

[keen dome]

You only force the proc for the anima-charged combo points.

[undone ridge]

got it

[keen dome]

And the first one is SecTec which is eh. It's the second one that matters the most, esp with say, Coup.

[final gulch]

you basically do it once, assuming you're going into dance with sectec

[undone ridge]

yes.

[keen dome]

So you strike dance sectec strike strike evis strike evis strike evis etc

[tribal blade]

3 times on pull if you did prepull dance

[undone ridge]

u guys are lovely

perfect info

on the spot

its hard to find info on stuff and how to play proper

im really glad i got fellow rogues helping me

im an outlaw main XD

[keen dome]

Prepull dance is basically: anima-charged combies reset to 2 on pull but you can dance before pull and go into the fight with 2 already charged, thus getting another 2 once you do your first dance.

It's a nice little bit of extra oomph at the start of the fight that I consistently forget to do

[tribal blade]

haha yeah i keep forgetting too

[frosty sinew]

took awhile to get into the habit of just pressing dance when i respawn

[tribal blade]

i did it on every pull when it was symbols

for some reason it's not hitting with dance

[keen dome]

Yeah that's a legit good habit

[keen dome]

same

[tribal blade]

maybe need an addon

low key

[keen dome]

I think it's because Dance blocks stealth and it feels awkward to me if I'm not in stealth.

[tribal blade]

yes that's true lol

[keen dome]

I could just cancalaura but urgh

[frosty sinew]

ye it's more awkward

than symbols was

[keen dome]

Just need a QoL change that makes us regenerate two anima-charged cmobies if we are out of combat for 20 seconds.

Which is effectively the same as what we are doing now

fuck it tie to TLD

TFD

Whatever

[tribal blade]

i had the idea too that TFD should do something like "every 2 seconds out of combat gain 1 second on your next dance up to 3 seconds"

[keen dome]

That'd be cool

[tribal blade]

so they can keep the same duration

but it's not so difficult to do

[keen dome]

But ye anima-charged just naturally regenning to 2 if out of combat for 20s would be a really nice QoL and effectively cover this optimisation in a much better way

[tribal blade]

you can get a bit more duration if it gets borked for whatever reasonn

[keen dome]

Yeah, I like that a lot because it makes it less binary too

[tribal blade]

could be cool

also 6 seconds feels way too long

[keen dome]

Having it function in a dynamic way would smooth out M+ issues.

add it to the list

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

ok next forum post

[keen dome]

1. Raid buff (Crit% / CritDam% / Inverse MotW) (From Fim / Ryldd's very good ideas)
2. Poison Toggle (Universal toggle for all aura buffs ala poisons, intellect, etc)
3. Prophet's TFD idea
4. Rogue tank for the sickos out there
5. Damage knob

[final gulch]

poison toggle should have been in the game years ago ngl

[tribal blade]

my last post popped off

[keen dome]

Yeee

[tribal blade]

but doesn't seem to have any effect

[final gulch]

having to re apply your poison every hour in 2026 is wild

[keen dome]

Pour one out for our Ass brothers who have to do it 4 times

[final gulch]

i have a few boss kills this tier with no poison LOL. i just forgot bc i didnt have my WA.

i have an addon for it now tho

[tribal blade]

do you also enjoy casting wound poison mid combat when you forget to put it on for healing mobs in keys

[frosty sinew]

thank god for buff reminders

[final gulch]

fr

[undone ridge]

since i have the pros in the chat today

[tribal blade]

technically 3 times in keys haha

because if you use crippling

[frosty sinew]

my guildies raid buffs need to get that addon i s2g

[tribal blade]

your tank is gonna yell at you

[frosty sinew]

nothing scares me more than missing sham buff with 5 seconds left on pull

[undone ridge]

when im fighting big mob and im spamming shuriken storm and ancient arts procs

[final gulch]

nothing quite like asking for battle shout with 10 seconds left on pull timer :')

[undone ridge]

i always double black powder?

and coup de grace when i get it ofc?

[keen dome]

But like, the sheer volume of pug pulls I do where the shaman won't skyfury or the druid forgot mark or the fucking warrior didn't shout

[frosty sinew]

it's always sham buff in my guild

[tribal blade]

i'm constantly begging everyone for buffs

it's annoying af

[frosty sinew]

and sometimes druid buff

[keen dome]

And you sit there going "buff please" for 5 minutes until you have to WHISPER them

[undone ridge]

i like shaman buff most ngl

[keen dome]

Like jfc blizz just make it a goddamn aura

[tribal blade]

default UI should have some type of reminder

[keen dome]

We gain ridiculous stuff from it

[frosty sinew]

i told my gm to get them to download buff reminder xd

i dont think they did

🙁

[final gulch]

not a bad idea

[frosty sinew]

its also crazy for shamans

[tribal blade]

before every single pull

[keen dome]

It's why I think Posion Toggle (which is a universal idea not just for rogues) is such an important QoL change.

[tribal blade]

SKYFURY

[frosty sinew]

like do you not want your own buff

[tribal blade]

MARK

[undone ridge]

its amazing for melee

[tribal blade]

SHOUT

PLEASE

[keen dome]

Y e p

[tribal blade]

FORT

[keen dome]

Just have it be a fucking toggle aura. You turn it on, it is on until you turn it off.

[tribal blade]

not all melee

[keen dome]

And this ALSO means that if smoeone dies and is res'd, you don't have to shout "rebuff"

[tribal blade]

for sub it's crazy good

[undone ridge]

warri too

[frosty sinew]

or just make them persist through death

[keen dome]

And people have to push those buttons in, ptoetnially, complex fight moments

[keen dome]

Ye but that's a stopgap solution to just having it be an aura

[short radish]

sorry im still ramping

[frosty sinew]

too many words

[undone ridge]

brothers when i have a aoe mob and im spamming shuriken storm and ancient arts procs i just double spend on black powder?

[frosty sinew]

read hard

[undone ridge]

sorry for asking twice lol

[tribal blade]

HAHA jesus christ, dude is over here writing a thesis

[keen dome]

yeah, I guess

[frosty sinew]

yes

[keen dome]

I do anyway

[undone ridge]

cool

[frosty sinew]

unless for some reason you still have supercharged points

then you'd reproc apex

[undone ridge]

vs 2 targets i like to ST rotation

[tribal blade]

you might as well create your own thread ngl

[undone ridge]

u guys spend ST or go aoe vs 2 targets?

[short radish]

nah im piggy backing

gotta consolidate

[frosty sinew]

depends on talents

[keen dome]

I should really do an EU thread linking to your one

[undone ridge]

ok

[frosty sinew]

if you take potent powder you black powder on 2 targets

otherwise on 3

and you shadowstrike on 3 or lower

[undone ridge]

gotcha

[frosty sinew]

in dance obv

always shuriken storm> backstab if any additional target

[undone ridge]

i need a coup de grace aura

so i dont miss any

im dumb

sometimes

[tribal blade]

you can write your own too

[frosty sinew]

can add evis to your cdm it'll change to coup

or can track flawless form stacks on it

[undone ridge]

perfect

[tribal blade]

hopefully you guys don't have a mafic on EU

[keen dome]

I'd probably just link to your own and discuss the same points. might do it in a bit.

[tribal blade]

cool! every little bit (maybe) helps

[keen dome]

We need fundamental improvements and QoL, rather than just damage knob turning.

[frosty sinew]

which tbf probably isn't happening this patch

🙁

[keen dome]

Damage knob is the only thing they can realistically do between patches

[frosty sinew]

not that i'd complain about a lil damage knob action

[keen dome]

12.0.7 or 12.1 are the most realistic oppertunities for a raid buff addition or fundamental adjustments.

[keen dome]

Ye I mean I'm not against it. It just doesn't solve the underlying issues we have.

It's been the same since I came back in DF. Every season is a similar situation with some being vastly worse

[frosty sinew]

just buff sin so i play it in every fight

i mean what

[final gulch]

let's not forget blizzard left the assassination tier set completely bugged for all of last seasons, even though we knew about it before it hit live.

they definitely care :)

[keen dome]

Damn, just a season?

[tribal blade]

lol true

[keen dome]

lol lmao SHT bug or w/e it was that lasted for like 2 and a half expansions?

[tribal blade]

yeah some sub bugs have lived a long ass time

but those sin bugs were kinda crazy though

really crazy ones

[final gulch]

i meann it was a pretty unplayable bug that would desync your cds

[keen dome]

The bug so bad it caused a lot of very good players to go "nah fuck off" and stop playing Sub. But yeah, it's not a competition. It's just funny as hell

[final gulch]

and it happened like 1 in every 5 pulls it felt like

[undone ridge]

macroing dance with blades is fine or does it mess up something?

[tribal blade]

i stopped playing sin on anything because of that

i couldn't deal with it

[final gulch]

legit same

[tribal blade]

i was like

[stiff stirrup]

this expansion you mean*

[tribal blade]

i'd rather be doing mid ST as sub

in raid

[frosty sinew]

a man can dream

[final gulch]

i play every spec but for s3 tww i just hard swapped off sin because of that bug lol

[tribal blade]

than dealing with this BS

[keen dome]

Every season I say I'm going to play all 3 specs

Every season I just play Sub all season

[tribal blade]

and then the bug ended up being cracked on dimmy

so nuts lol

[final gulch]

ye lol

[frosty sinew]

ye it's fine atm

well i have 1 macro with dance+blades+sec tec

[undone ridge]

how do u guys deal with downtime in a m+?
wait for stored combopoints to add up? spam backstab and spend? spam backstab and then dance with full cp?

[final gulch]

macroing dance+sectec & dance+sectec+blades is actually correct and you get more dps from not missing a global in dance

[frosty sinew]

then macros for dance with every other ability

[final gulch]

ye

[frosty sinew]

funny thought i was gonna save action bar space

but just filled it up with dance macros

nb

[final gulch]

kinda unfortunate that we're already a 2 button class, but now also making a swifty one shot macro combining all your cooldowns is actually correct on sub.

[undone ridge]

macroing sectec into dance and blades aswell does need me to have full CR when i press the button no?

[keen dome]

Downtime is good for us because we get our cooldowns back. We do nothing outside of them, so effectively it's a big boost for us.

If by downtime you mean time between combat, etc. Or do you mean downtime as in time between cooldowns?

[undone ridge]

yeah its good taking a breather form time to time

[undone ridge]

betweed CD's

[keen dome]

Ah. Just focus on being useful. We do no damage so just kick, stun, cc, utility, etc.

[frosty sinew]

you will want to be going into every dance+sec tec at full cp anyways

[undone ridge]

u guys use kindey shot or blind to kick targets aswell?

[keen dome]

As your cd's come back you can stack up SHT stacks. Stop 10s before blades to let it all come back.

Yeah, kidney shot is amazing.

[frosty sinew]

haha imagine using your cc

[undone ridge]

makes sense ^^

[frosty sinew]

when you could do damage

[keen dome]

Cheap Shot, too. I have become a cheap shot believer

[undone ridge]

mhm

[final gulch]

yes, but that's our preferred way of entering dance when we're playing trickster (which i think is played every fight rn)

[undone ridge]

got it

[frosty sinew]

ye you play trickster in everything

[final gulch]

the only fight that might not be a trickster fight is midnight falls imo

[south moss]

assuming im at haste break point, at what point do i stop pumping stats into mastery and start giving crit? is the answer just "sim"? wondering if theres some sort of mastery number i should be aiming for that would make it easier to know without having to sim all the time

[frosty sinew]

nah you for sure still play trickster

with add spawns

[final gulch]

its only like 2 or 3 sets of adds tho

[keen dome]

Yeah. Once you hit 700 (or 684) haste you can just slam mastery -> crit

[final gulch]

its basically a full st fight

[tribal blade]

yeah only in P1

in a 4 phase fight

[frosty sinew]

ye but deathstalker is VERY minimal st dps upgrade

[final gulch]

and it has the double dmg amp in p3

[frosty sinew]

and you're dealing with dealthstalker

[keen dome]

Build for the Haste goal. Then you can shove everything ele into mastery and then crit. Mastery more dam and crit more dam of that dam

[south moss]

yeah for sure, as far as haste, but when do i start prioritizing crit > mastery?

[final gulch]

ye im not 100% certain it will be deathstalker

just saying i think thats the only fight we could potentially play it

[frosty sinew]

even on sims it's only like what

[keen dome]

never

[frosty sinew]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

my favorite thing is everyone thinking DS will be played and then everyone just plays trickster anyways

[frosty sinew]

its 1k better in pure st

[undone ridge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/98C1PVHKBeoZHNQnPipms6

can someone tell me if i need to change smth up?

[south moss]

but im seeing top rogues that have crafted stuff, and they crafted it with crit instead of mastery, which is confusing

[keen dome]

Crit will naturally go up 'cos a lot of good pieces that have mastery are mastery+crit.

[frosty sinew]

and pretty sure all the rwf rogues were playing trickster

[shadow lance]

In ST, Mastery Flask and Crit Flask got same value for me

[undone ridge]

settings are on ST

[final gulch]

imo always mastery. sometimes crit will sim slightly better st, but mastery gets way more value from aoe. and this is a multi target tier.

[keen dome]

Ask them but it's often the case that top rogues are doing their thing based on their better understanding or specifc niche needs in much much harder content.

Blindly following what they do isn't the best because you aren't them, if that makes sense.

[frosty sinew]

what's your haste

[exotic steeple]

ill play trickster i dont want to bother with the mark

[undone ridge]

i think around 17% ish

[tribal blade]

they possibly want to swap between sub and sin

[frosty sinew]

you'll want to get to ~700

[undone ridge]

i noted that

[tribal blade]

and sin wants as much crit as possible

[frosty sinew]

as someone that plays both sin and sub

i crafted haste mastery and just switch rings for sin to get more crit

[keen dome]

It's better to go with the raw number 'cos racial additions don't count towards what we need but will show up in the %, just as an FYI we all use the actual number and not %.

[frosty sinew]

dont think it's a big deal either way though

[undone ridge]

yh ik i couldnt get the right number since im not on pc and im a d0g with raidbots

[tribal blade]

i did a sin sim today and it wanted to get as much crit from my gear as possible

[keen dome]

Haha, valid

[undone ridge]

i just know its sitting around approx 17%

[frosty sinew]

ye i doubt my sin gear is 100% optimal

but it's enough to 100 parse

💪

[tribal blade]

insert whysper rant about stats

and how they don't matter as much as you think

[keen dome]

Haha, yeah

[undone ridge]

for embellishement i stack arcanewoven thingy?

[keen dome]

Pretty much my mentality too outside the haste thing.

And I only go to 700 'cos I am bad and old

[frosty sinew]

you want crafted dagger with hunt

[keen dome]

I need the extra room

[frosty sinew]

and then some other piece with arcanoweave lining

[undone ridge]

yeah i fucked up that already

need to re craft

[keen dome]

It's pretty minimal

Just go with two arcano if you have it, embellishments are legit tiny

[undone ridge]

got it

[frosty sinew]

ye it's not the biggest deal

[keen dome]

If you want to go big min/max it can matter but I think, personally, it doesn't in the grand scheme. Playing well is gonna matter more long-term

I bet there's some 99 logs without any embellishments

[frosty sinew]

i just crafted dagger and wrists to not think about it

[exotic steeple]

or my grey logs with full enchants

[keen dome]

Hell yeah buddy

[sharp peak]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frosty sinew]

grey logs are bis

i went from 100 chim parse to 4 chim parse the next week

perfectly balanced

[keen dome]

Full enchants, two embellisments, 276 iLevel, let's go 2 log

that's me every mythic fight

(In my defense pugs are cursed)

[frosty sinew]

sometimes you die and they decide to kill it

how dare they

[fiery fog]

Imagine being in a pug with 0 shamans

[keen dome]

A lot of the time for me it's people not doing damage in the right spot and me going "okay time to move cooldowns to specifically do this" like both my Imperator kills

[frosty sinew]

got feared twice on chim and was somehow the only one to die

[exotic steeple]

is someone using lura ring here?

[final gulch]

that actually sucks LOL

[frosty sinew]

i was

a lil sad

[undone ridge]

is eversong diamond the best gem that we use?

[keen dome]

People tunnel the boss so hard in Mythic Imperator pugs, and every time we get a big boy add grow up. it's wild.

[keen dome]

Ye, massive main stat.

[frosty sinew]

if thats the pure primary stat one

then yes

[undone ridge]

i hope its not too expensive

[keen dome]

You can only use one.

[undone ridge]

im broke bwoai

[frosty sinew]

they pretty cheap now

like 3k?

[undone ridge]

lemme bonk on that bro

u guys are the best

can and wont stop the glaze

[frosty sinew]

rogue discord kinda goated tbh

[undone ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/ongod-fr-gif-26638290

[keen dome]

If you need gold, go do the 4 weekly zone thins. They give 2k+ each

[frosty sinew]

better than any other class i've played lol

[keen dome]

With the chance of 10k+

[undone ridge]

fr

[undone ridge]

bro ur godsent

[exotic steeple]

i like the balance dc aswell

[undone ridge]

relax with farming W

chyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyl

[frosty sinew]

ele has good info

[keen dome]

One abundance, one sorrie, afk at stormtalon and then the more involved one is the Haroldar.

[frosty sinew]

but not in their class disc

in bonds disc lul

[exotic steeple]

yea the ele dc are infomaxxing

[undone ridge]

yh i play ele secondary hh

giga fun but rng heavy

[frosty sinew]

i played ele season 1 tww

[undone ridge]

giga bursty

[frosty sinew]

and god damn that spec was a fun time

[undone ridge]

it was

when its in a good spot

sheeeeesh

u can enjoy being a pussio caster

[exotic steeple]

good old weakaura times

[undone ridge]

and relax ur ballz

[frosty sinew]

nothing better than spymaster ele

in that .5 patch

[undone ridge]

XD

never got it

[frosty sinew]

i made a heroic pug and didn't invite a single person who needed it

won the roll with a 12

😎

[exotic steeple]

they call him jose mourinho

but i liek what they did to sub

i couldnt get my head around sub before midnight

played assa before

[frosty sinew]

i loved sub last patch

[exotic steeple]

but now its very easy to ge tinto

[frosty sinew]

but i don't mind this one

[keen dome]

I like this version of Sub a lot but it does lack a little something. Like the prism button idea or w/e. But also we need our burst identity back pretty please.

[frosty sinew]

ye we definitely lost our omega burst

but did get more consistent damage

[exotic steeple]

are these good?

[frosty sinew]

not that i think sub rogue needed more consistent damage

rogue already has specs that do that

[exotic steeple]

without any buffs/flasks

[frosty sinew]

whats the number

not the %

[keen dome]

I love seeing stats in other languages

these own

[exotic steeple]

446 crit, 691 haste, 888 mastery

[keen dome]

Haste is fine. 700 is the sweet spot for the extra gcd wiggle room but that's fine.

[exotic steeple]

yea i always want to switch to english but im to lazy

[frosty sinew]

maybe a bit much mastery?

[keen dome]

More mastery

[exotic steeple]

what bout crit?

[frosty sinew]

i feel like his sim would probably want crit over mastery

at that point

[keen dome]

More is gooder but

[frosty sinew]

but could be wrong

[keen dome]

More of both is gooderist

[frosty sinew]

just do whatever top gear wants

whjile keeping 700 haste

[keen dome]

Yep

[exotic steeple]

i could drop the lura ring for the magister one

[frosty sinew]

good way is to sim without oils

[keen dome]

You can probably just eyeball it most of the time. More mastery is more AoE and damage in general. More crit is more ST and more damage in general

[frosty sinew]

cause you ain't a robot and cant use robot haste breakpoints

[keen dome]

So just getting more of both is gooder damage

[frosty sinew]

goodest damage!

[keen dome]

My unbuffed stats

I think I'm at 65% mastery with flask

[frosty sinew]

if you dont have oils on

you could lose some haste for other stats

[keen dome]

Yep

I just have to get gear that lets me do that haha

[frosty sinew]

you want 700 with oils

[keen dome]

684 without

[frosty sinew]

well

can have less

but ye

[keen dome]

Yep

[frosty sinew]

i have 701 with oils

but gives less leeway

[keen dome]

It's just gettign gear without haste at this point. Which is rng vault for me.

[frosty sinew]

ye especially once you get cosmos neck

seems tough to not have too much haste

[keen dome]

Yep, I have Alleria neck + Nexus rings

[frosty sinew]

guess you go alg ring probably

[keen dome]

I could swap to mastery + crit gems I guess but also effffffort

[frosty sinew]

im running pit neck + nexus rings

cause i wont be given alleria neck

[keen dome]

I'll probably craft mastery + crit legs on reset

[frosty sinew]

cause it isnt good on droptimizer

cause i already have 700 haste!

[keen dome]

I just want trinkets....

[frosty sinew]

myth gaze haver reporting in

and myth guidon

🙂

[exotic steeple]

if turbo event coming later this season it will be easy for us the get our bis trinkets

on myth track

[frosty sinew]

well "easy"

[exotic steeple]

its just the imp and chima

remember when it was house of cards

[frosty sinew]

shame to use them on those bosses since they are so early but ye

[exotic steeple]

i hated that boss

[fiery fog]

The worst part about haste is having to explain why some gear is simming too high or too low to your loot council

[frosty sinew]

yep

[fossil forge]

House of negative fps

fuck bandit

[keen dome]

Assuming they let us buy them. It's bonus rolls this time

But maybe in 12.0.7

[short radish]

@tribal blade if you have anyone in your raid that you really dislike

cast this on them before the pull (has cast time of like 3 seconds)

[keen dome]

lmao

[tribal blade]

wait what does it do

[short radish]

i got my mate good

#fuckmages

[tribal blade]

LOL niec

holy shit

[short radish]

you can't do anything

except move

and you have to right click off the debuff

[keen dome]

lmao

[untold elk]

What would you get from here thinking on the long term? Or I simply get what sims best? They are all Haste / Vers items

[urban ice]

Question regarding the dmg of sectec- damage consists of multiple parts with the second Hit being applied 1s after the first. When is the dmg calculated? When i have 0,5s SD left and I use sectec - will all hits be buffed by SD? Same goes for kiting mobs- will all hits hit the same Target when hit by the First Hit or could the 2nd hit miss when mobs are pulled away after first hit?

[tribal blade]

the aussie swearing

is the icing on the cake

[short radish]

one of my finest creations

[keen dome]

Amazing

That's spectacular

[exotic steeple]

im gonna do that in pugs

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

Do it to the guy who's most likely going to crash iout

[tribal blade]

ok i have to be very careful about doing this with my raid team

because those mofos will 100% do it to me

[short radish]

this dude right here

[exotic steeple]

hahahahahha

[keen dome]

It's so good

[exotic steeple]

devil himself

[short radish]

we do a bit of tom foolery in raid

[keen dome]

This is absolutely going to result in Blizz making it not work in raids

We'll finally get changes

[sharp ravine]

The 2nd part is calculated when it proc, if you have 0.5 on SB and send Sectec, only first part is buffed by SB
No idea if 2nd part can miss if target go away, would say no

[tribal blade]

hey do your campaign

[keen dome]

Yeah man, do those quests

[tribal blade]

(for no benefit)

[keen dome]

Look at how many quests he has to do

smh

[short radish]

bro this is my 4th alt

[tribal blade]

all that silvermoon rep

[keen dome]

this is how your map should look

[short radish]

you think im touching that

[tribal blade]

fair enough lol

[exotic steeple]

i cant find the last 3 eggs :/

[keen dome]

they respawn and share pickup

just give it a bit

[exotic steeple]

oh okay

gonna use that on the pug raid leaders who say fail=kick but are below tank in dps

[vestal escarp]

Gm chat

Every day i wake up and look at wcl statistics

[keen dome]

Good morning.

[waxen lintel]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cursive tundra]

Huge, i'll take a look at the PR in just a bit and merge it + release it on CF

Love me some collaborators

[glacial eagle]

ayyy lmao

[hollow spear]

Trying to quote what your mage said in the end netted me a slap on the wrist by the bot

[wet atlas]

what item is recommended to craft for my third craft?

[hollow spear]

I should have known better, but I had to channel my inner Bogan

[keen dome]

No Aussie Allowed

[fiery fog]

The sim will tell you

[hollow spear]

wrists, belt are usually decent

[wet atlas]

I´ve crafted offhand and belt so ar

[fiery fog]

3rd is likely legs/ring/neck i think

Depends on your gear

(Legs because the good ones are either boe, vault or alleria mythic)

[wet atlas]

I might go with wrist i guess... only item still in champion track

[fiery fog]

You can farm 3/6 hero though

Pretty easily

Iirc the AA ones are alright

[fallow nimbus]

Got the chimaerus belt with socket, so i crafted pants as offpiece

[fiery fog]

Just sim with haste crit and haste mastery and take the highest option

[fallow nimbus]

Does the "bis" setup reach the 700 haste?

[short radish]

best part is that i was talking to him about doing this to someone in raid half an hour before

[keen dome]

lmao

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/brent-my-hero-aus-top-guy-gif-17971844794065873200

[tough egret]

yo guys you have also problems to get invites for +15/16 keys in pugs? is it because rogues or is it the spec?

[short radish]

all of the above

also being a dps

[keen dome]

Aussie Raiding sounds so much fun

Destiny 2 Aussie callouts are my favourite thing

[hollow spear]

getting invites to higher keys is generally a struggle

as dps

[keen dome]

Ye, it's less Rogue specifically and more DPS as a whole

Although being Rogue without a lust / res / etc doesn't help.

Just keep on keepin' on. Protip is to write something in your apply note to stand out from the crowd.

[tough egret]

i mean i really cant understand. if i got invites or playin my own key im always between place 1 or 2 in dps. so i really cant understand the struggle to invites rogues i mean we have also one of the highest survivability

its really frustrating

[keen dome]

They can't know that before inviting you and there's always other people with higher score or better iLevel or some other metric they have chosen

It's how it goes as a mono DPS spec with no real group benefit, in a sea of DPS.

[tough egret]

indeed

[hollow spear]

Which addon are you guys using to change floating damage font?

[keen dome]

Playing Assa might not be a bad idea as the perception will probably be that it's 'better' but like. You'll still have a challenge.

Ooh, D4 expansion is out soon. Maybe Rogue can be good in that.

[urban ice]

Ty! Can some1 answer the miss question?

[final gulch]

where do you get these? asking for a friend ......

[short radish]

scroll down

i have given detailed instructions

[final gulch]

ooo ty

i have the perfect target in mind

https://tenor.com/view/theburntpeanut-bungulator-twitch-stare-got-em-gif-13218764415226663824

[potent frigate]

I am trying to get why sometimes I get 12s shadow dance and sometimes 8s one with the same setup every time. 1st guidon (The trinket), after about 0.5 to 1s use the shadow blades + shadow dance + shadow technique. Without guidon, I get 6s shadow dance, so it's not a problem of the guidon. But now, running some m+, with different parties, I sometimes got 12s shadow dance, without BL. I know it comes down to haste, but there's no reason for me to get more haste in random situations from my items - so maybe it is talents?

[hazy breach]

The first dance

Talent

[potent frigate]

Oh, I have that only in m+ talents that would explain it. ANd I actually got parties that let me reset stealth, so yeah. That's why I never realised it before.

[alpine wraith]

i actually had first dance proc without talenting it on raid yday

[potent frigate]

Lucky you I guess lol. 12s shadow dance is broken

Also, is it still important to use guidon about 0.5 prior to using the SB+SD+ST macro? I've seen logs of people using it that way, but some people have it on the same second, thus macroing it together.

[hazy breach]

If you use the pot that gives 1.6k of your highest secondary stat you can get 18+ seconds of dance with the first dance

It's not better than the AGI pot, but you could

[potent frigate]

That would mean getting more haste though. Highest secondary stat is mastery with my current gear. But I am keeping about 650'ish haste on purpose

[olive canyon]

does anyone understand how aug works, is there a list of classes that benefit the most from its buffs?

[near charm]

How important is Off-hand ? if I have mythic track main hand, do I want one of my craft 285 to be my off hand ? or I just go my hero track off hand and 2 craft on waist/feet for example ?

[foggy estuary]

Craft 2 myth daggos

Prob solved 🙃

[blissful ivy]

Offhand is a stat stick don't craft it

[fleet acorn]

didnt they fix that? and its now not uncapped anymore?

[keen dome]

It's not very important and is one of our weakest slots. You can use your Myth crafted as OH for embellishment but if you haven't made one, just use whatever.

[fathom adder]

with the aa dmg buffs it gives more dps than you might think. Worse than other thing but it is not the absolute worst

[near charm]

thx

[sharp seal]

Spent 2 raid nights in sub spec and have a question… (maybe missed this in guide somewhere) do you have apex buff up for each Shadowdance+ SecTech ? Because I only have 1-3 shadow tech stacks each time it is 5-6 seconds left till next Shadow Dance+SecTech. Do I have to wait couple seconds doing nothing except Autos till 5 stacks and SS then dance+SecTech or just send it as is?
I don’t have problems with apex inside dance

[potent frigate]

To be fair, I stopped tracking the apex buff. I just go about it this way: Do I have 6+ combo points? - > Finisher. Do I not have them? -> Builder. And I am basically parsing 95+ on every boss fight. When I was watching apex buff and minmaxing it, I actually lost alot of dmg. I watched logs of the top parsers and from their casts, they do it the same way I do. As the guide said, if you have 5+ shadow tech stats then use builder, I totally ignore it and it has helped me gain so much damage. I just go with apex buff like if I get it, I get it. If I don't, I don't. But don't take me wrong, I get them pretty often and I might miss maybe 1 or 2 per SD+ST window, but do I care about it if I am parsing 95+ and apperently doing better than 95% people? Not really.

[hazy breach]

Theres not really any class that benefits from Aug.

[sharp ravine]

AA opti exist only for supercharged finisher

[fiery fog]

You just send sectech and dance when its ready
You proc the apex for the next finisher then
But its recommended to not use a finisher ~4-5 seconds before sectech is ready to ensure you can send it with 6+ cp
You can still backstab during this time though

[potent frigate]

I mean, sure. But with the lack of WA watching every buff and tracking them has become harder, at least for me. So getting into hard minmaxing a buff when I am already doing better than 95% same ilvl rogues seems meaningless to me. That's why I just go about it the way I described and I get them pretty much the same amount of times and as I said, I may miss 1 or 2 without hard minmaxing, but the impact on my overall performance is still negligible. What will impact the overall performance more than missing 1 or 2 AA is the movement through out the boss fight.

[olive canyon]

my mistake, i thought they buffed specific ppl

[frigid prawn]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[small vortex]

aug gets a big buff window when they breath of eon so class that have cds when its up can benefit more

i think breath is like ~90s might be wrong though

[hazy breach]

They did in the past, but not anymore

[small vortex]

but they buff everyone with ebon might and prescience now

[hazy breach]

But also its just flat damage buffs really, so it's not really favouring one spec over another

[hazy breach]

Depends on their hero talent iirc

[hollow spear]

Any uuf knowers that can help me get rid of these weird ass focus cast bar shenanigans?

[small vortex]

i believe so yeah

[red flame]

does anybody know if it's possible to have a macro where the showtooltip changes spells?
basically i'm trying to make the BP + Coup macro but Evis instead of BP & also trying to make it a mouseover macro

I was able to make one that works, but the tooltip doesnt change to Coup ever, only stays Evis
a guildie helped me make one that worked for a minute, but after the first time Evis became Coup, the macro started showing a ❓ & wouldnt work anymore

#showtooltip Eviscerate
/cast [@mouseover,exists][@target] Coup de Grace
/cast [@mouseover,exists][@target] Eviscerate
(the one that doesnt change but works)

#showtooltip
/castsequence [@mouseover,exists][@target] Eviscerate, Coup de Grace
(the one guildie made that keeps breaking)

[fiery fog]

Evis automatically becomes coup?

You dont need a macro

[dry flame]

sims keep dropping my haste to 650 (with gear swaps)

i refuse

[red flame]

essentially i just want a mouseover Eviscerate macro that still changes the tooltip from Evis to Coup

like how it does naturally

its bothering me still proccing & using Coup but never seeing the icon change

if its not possible thats fine but i didnt know if some elite macro knowers knew a way to make it work

[fiery fog]

Arent you using blizzard cdm?

[steel zinc]

yeah ofc what addon your using?

[red flame]

yea

still want the ability to change on the bar tho if possible

i watch my bar like a hawk

if it cant then oh well

[hollow spear]

Thanks for the reply but I noticed that zac inted me with his UUF shadow borders 😄

for some reason it didn't pull my changes to the width and height

[tender adder]

gamers, why do my sims keep telling me to stay under 500 haste? even when i offer options that would put me closer to 650-700, it tells me that doing that is a huge dps loss and i should just get more mastery instead

[hollow spear]

what does "closer to 650" mean?

[red flame]

assuming like 600-649

ish

[hollow spear]

it's probably quite binary

if you cannot get the extra global, it doesn't like it

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/seriously-let-me-tell-you-gif-13129374

[tender adder]

around 636 - 729

[steel zinc]

if you cant reach wtih current gear the breakpoint sim will say get other stats

get just 700 haste and your gucci

[vagrant sinew]

do you have haste flask selected in sim

[steel zinc]

700 is also what a human can do

[tender adder]

mastery flask

[steel zinc]

brother haste flask

[red flame]

if you cant reach the haste breakpoint then use haste flask

[tender adder]

I've been having to use haste flask to hit the breakpoint in raid because my gear is so mastery heavy

[red flame]

same

[tender adder]

lol thats what ive been doing

[red flame]

my haste is bricked w/o haste flask

quite unfortunate

[tender adder]

alright i'll try find some jewelry and maybe cata charge items that can get me as close to 700 as humanly possible

[red flame]

currently sitting at 464 or 15% w/o flask or oils

[hollow spear]

I am at 691 with haste flask, comfy

[tender adder]

489 without flask rn because my droptimizer keeps telling me to ignore haste lol

have to do it myself

[hollow spear]

Yeah, ignore droptimizer

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-gif-25117042

[hollow spear]

the idea is to get to a comfy level of haste

and then let the robot tell you if you like mastery or crit

[small vortex]

reject all sims, reroll

[tender adder]

lmao

true

[hollow spear]

the fringing on the bigwigs combat timer is terrible

halp

[potent frigate]

isn't 700 overkill though? I am sitting at 654 with my current gear and I am comfy getting the last global off

[hollow spear]

I'd check my logs if I was sitting at 654

to make sure I actually get the global

[potent frigate]

Also my droptemizer would like to get me to like 600, but that's not possible for human to do so lol. So I just sit at 654 even though best gear says I should do otherwise

[small vortex]

is slightly ping dependent and recommended to be 650-700

if you can hit it consistently at 650 very pog

[hollow spear]

there were so many people last season who missed globals due to double coup

[small vortex]

if not you go closer to 700

[hollow spear]

who swore they didn't

[small vortex]

and coup being longer gcd can mess up the window too yeah

[potent frigate]

is it really? The animation is longer for sure, but I don't recall the GCD being tied to it right now

[hollow spear]

it's 1.2

[small vortex]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hollow spear]

which leaves you something like 0.15 seconds for your last global if you're playing it perfectly

at 650

[potent frigate]

Hmmm, I didn't delve into it that deep, but always thought based on the last spell used I am okay. But I might miss 1 here and there. But I guess you're more likely to miss 1 global due to movement

[hollow spear]

The risk reward is just not there for me

In the best case scenario you get something like 0.X% dps out of the extra crit or mastery

In the worst case scenario you lose a couple of dance globals

[dusky yacht]

They’re not mutually exlusive, you can miss one due to movement and another one due to lack of haste

[tepid trellis]

just have your best performing build be at 700+ haste

problem solved

[fiery fog]

Just play perfectly and do what the sim says

[hollow spear]

Yeah that's what I am saying

People who intentionally play at 650 because it sims better are probably losing dps on average

[potent frigate]

It actually sims better for me to be at 600, but I intentionally got to 654 to have a leeway. Guess I might be missing sum more then

[fiery fog]

I was playing at 666 because my gear didnt allow me to go higher

Just upgrade and be at 690 suddenly

[hollow spear]

yeah it's quite troll

[red flame]

holy W i might've actually figured out this macro thing

[potent frigate]

Indeed, it will go higher with item upgrades. Right now, I could only change 2 sockets to get higher, but will be able to go higher with 2 or 3 upgrades on gear, which will be this or next week.

Also, I realised people actually go double Acuity of the Rendorei on weapons instead of 1x Rendorei and 1x Arcane mastery. Is there a reason?

[lilac stag]

just get to 700 haste, then figure out if you need more mastery or crit.

Rend typically sims better for ST, which is quite honestly what we are in raid. Arcane is better in multi (m+ & fights you slam BP)

[red flame]

W its working now but still shows the ❓ sometimes. idk how to make it never appear but its p much working now

[lilac stag]

If you’re not worried about apex min/max, I wouldn’t worry about which of the two enchants you’re using.

[tender adder]

yeah sims are drunk. when i sim a 489 haste combo, a 660 haste combo and a 722 haste combo, it says that the 489 build is by far the best

is my simcraft just stupid

[lilac stag]

no, it’s trying to not waste a dead stat (haste) when it won’t get you an extra gcd

it has its limitations

which you just work around

[tender adder]

ive heard other people complain that their sims are trying to optimize for 600, mine isnt even doing that

[tribal blade]

the sim can play perfectly because it's a robot

you are not a robot

[keen dome]

Or are you....

[tender adder]

yeah but the robot cant even fit an extra gcd into 489 haste

like its telling me to just not build for the extra gcd at all

[keen dome]

At 489 it's nowhere near the extra GCD so it's not trying to fill it

[tender adder]

yeah but im offering it a 660 option which can get an extra gcd and its not taking it

[tribal blade]

he's saying the 489 sims better than 660

honestly not sure

[keen dome]

Yeah, because the sim is probably going "oh it's not gonna hit the extra GCD well time to stack mastery instead" or something?

[tender adder]

but 660 does hit the extra gcd

[keen dome]

Is this on Dungeonslice

[tender adder]

so im offering it 489 (doesnt) or 660 (does) and its saying go 489 and do more damage

no this is on 1 boss 5 minutes

patchwerk

[keen dome]

I have no idea then

[tribal blade]

oh i think because 660 is technically over the haste needed to hit the extra gcd

[tender adder]

yeah im rly confused

[keen dome]

Probably, Prophet, that'd be my guess too

[tribal blade]

because it's assuming perfect play

[tender adder]

okay i'll swap the ring out to try get closer to 600 and see what happens

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

it's 587

should be

[keen dome]

It's just super awkward to sim atm, imo. I'm just eyeballing it all

Outside of trinkets

Haste to the comfy level. Agi -> Mastery + Crit win prizes

[empty bobcat]

we still macro shadow dance and shadow strike together?

[lilac stag]

If you want to see where sim breaks haste you can set the haste from gear in the sim and then run stat weights. When you’re just under the gcd haste will hit 18 dps per point, when you’re over the extra gcd or way under it, haste is back to TWW value of 5 dps per point.
Just get 685-700 haste so it’s comfortable and then look if you need more mastery or more crit.

[lilac stag]

We haven’t done that since it broke in dragon flight

#subtlety-faq has how to use dance

[cursive tundra]

ty, merged, updating curseforge for it
also @lilac stag it now has Masque support

[potent frigate]

@lilac stag is it actually better to use 2 macros on our window of Guidon and then macro of SD+ST+SB or use Guidon + SB and then SD + ST ?

[lilac stag]

Huh

[potent frigate]

Meant SB instead of SS, my bad

[lilac stag]

do what is easiest for you.
I press trinket. I press sb/sd/sectec.

[potent frigate]

I mean, it's still 2 buttons to press, so the difficulty of that is the same. I just don't remember if there's a reason to use SB before the actual SD+Sectec or not

[iron linden]

do the slice and dice talents activate when slice and dice is activated through evis?

[lilac stag]

I rather have sblades not wasted for the 1 second. It’s likely close to neutral. Sims don’t account for the flag delay and just send all of it at once

[lilac stag]

Yes. Read cut to the chase

[young crow]

Hi, asking on behalf and with permission of a buddy of mine. He swopped to sub rogue this season, As raid leader I'm concerned with his dps dropping a bit recently in comparison to his previous class. Went through some things last night and noticed that wowanalyzer is saying each and every shadow dance apart from those in his opener is bad. It states that he used it when he was at 0 combo points, but on the left it's saying that you should go in with low combo points. Just want a bit of clarity over what exactly is going on. It also flagged the shadow blades outside of opener and I suspect that has to do with pooling of cds that he's not doing. Any other constructive advice would be nice so I can relay back to him. I took this from the boss where his performance were better. https://wowanalyzer.com/report/AXY3HxBGCzKR97aq/5-Heroic+Vorasius+-+Kill+(4:03)/7-Veildancer/standard

[lilac stag]

I enjoy the chaos of people having to use math to hit the magic number.

[lilac stag]

No idea if WA supports deathstalker.

No one plays it

[verbal hedge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version