subtlety

[north garnet]

feels like assa. I prefered it in dragonflight

[swift tinsel]

I'd be interested to see the metrics on AA's that were depleted by one minute or less

pre-nerf

[lilac stag]

Ooh mythic BoPs should be boe this week

[keen dome]

They are live right now, I think

[swift tinsel]

yep

with reset iirc

[keen dome]

maybe i should turn my voraious lockout into a BoE farm

[swift tinsel]

not a bad call

[west tide]

chat my guild clutched out a paladins kill

[warm marlin]

leather prices still so high relative because there are 8 million devourer dhs out and about

[shy flare]

Ok thank you for replies

[west tide]

im out on alleria too

[north garnet]

which slots are the BoEs?

[west tide]

we on vacation baby

[keen dome]

legs and.. something

[warm marlin]

boot

[keen dome]

damn, the natural friend of the legs

[north garnet]

ghh

[weak glade]

i mean DF ass rogue is like top 3 sepcs

ever

[west tide]

whats the stat on the legs anythin good

[lilac stag]

I felt accomplished beating ours on Chim when I couldn’t sit on just boss or just adds.

[warm marlin]

the boes are again all randomized stats

[fiery fog]

sub and assa in s3 df were the goats

[warm marlin]

so whatever you like

[weak glade]

FR

[dusky yacht]

Sorry if it’s half assed I’ve been sitting in the sun too long and I’m a Belgian in Croatia, what is this strange burning sensation on my skin

[west tide]

ohhh wow thats sick

[keen dome]

Yeah their value is gonna be wild

[west tide]

i might buy one

[dense geode]

mythic one?

[swift tinsel]

if they get to 1mil I might drop that for good stat legs

[west tide]

i think our best stat is dev best stat too

[dense geode]

If not dont bother you can farm good pants

[west tide]

idt id pay 1 mil im too broke

[lilac stag]

They want haste mastery

[swift tinsel]

they're haste/mastery

[warm marlin]

i might recommend going for crit/mast since the haste/mast ones will be expensive

[lilac stag]

Just get crit mastery

[swift tinsel]

heavy mastery

[keen dome]

If you don't need the myth lockout, farming for them ain't the worst idea

[warm marlin]

or crit haste

[swift tinsel]

ye I can shift some haste around to make up for the haste I'd lose

champ alleria neck having 200+ haste is nice for that

[lilac stag]

likely just craft legs next week

Unless gigs vault

[keen dome]

Crit/Mast would be the best for me

but I am likely going to craft legs,

[earnest crane]

should we use shuriken storm on Light vanguard or shadowstrike ?

[swift tinsel]

I have hero spire legs atm and they're decent

[thin spire]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/chimaerus-the-undreamt-god

Haven't seen this site shared much but it helps you see how top parses are managing cooldowns and cast sequences..

Pretty dope tool

[west tide]

i have too much mythic gear to craft legs

[north garnet]

Yeah but i just mean i found the way you used deathmark and kingsbane in dragonflight more fun^^

+Shiv (rip)

[warm marlin]

waste of gold for a yellow class

better spent on one of those shades of green

[lilac stag]

I’ve got gloves that need full upgrade, but legs dwarf that upgrade

[keen dome]

They hate the egg, these guys.

[sullen hare]

Oh no, what a terrible circumstance!

[native zodiac]

they have to deal with us on midnight falls

if they want or not

[lilac stag]

they don’t

Not by the time most of us get there

[keen dome]

But Scath

We might be buffed

[native zodiac]

gg fuck

[swift tinsel]

lol our guild would explode/implode if we tried progging mythic falls

[keen dome]

same.

[keen dome]

I would also explode / implode

[plush roost]

Counterbait

!!

[swift tinsel]

seeing no rogue in the last four bosses would have been a vibe

[native zodiac]

bosses are not a dps check once we get there anyways

we are prob on beloren on sunday

[warm marlin]

if they didnt play exile on lura he wouldve been sat since vorasius no

[swift tinsel]

likely

[keen dome]

He would've been on Belo, no?

[swift tinsel]

nope

[dusky yacht]

I made this for you (no I didn’t other guy did the symbols):

Manifest guidon (龍花山海風)
Parse powerfully (電火空星月)
Bring pride to raidleader (虎雲雷川森)
Spread genetic information (夢雪天光石)

[warm marlin]

nah bro got sat on belo

[swift tinsel]

belo was not a rogue boss

[keen dome]

But he was on it initialy or am I misremembering

[lucid frost]

In opening shadow blades when I'm double dancing, do I also send ST twice? It can come off CD for a second cast near end of second dance, but then I'm not getting extra CP empowered cast. Alternatively, can wait and send third dance with a full ST but it messes with the timing of rotation. What's preferred?

[dense geode]

Only reason he was in on Vorasius was for daggers

[swift tinsel]

so yeah could have likely just been perma-benched

[dense geode]

[swift tinsel]

he was

[warm marlin]

yes until they came to their senses

[swift tinsel]

but not for long

and this won't send any kind of message to blizz

so its all just

[umbral fulcrum]

with 4p tier you can fit 2 sectec in shadow blades

[lilac stag]

looking back at it, I’m surprised it took them so long to swap to bear

[swift tinsel]

esp from bdk who does legit no damage

granted they lost a grip/aoe grip

[plush roost]

New chatblocker dropped

[lucid frost]

Perfect, so better to send ASAP and not wait for the empowered CP? Appreciate you

[plush roost]

Manifest guidon (龍花山海風)
Parse powerfully (電火空星月)
Bring pride to raidleader (虎雲雷川森)
Spread genetic information (夢雪天光石)

[umbral fulcrum]

there is an optimization

[swift tinsel]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[lilac stag]

!bis

[umbral fulcrum]

i thought the opti was to make sure sectec is the 2nd empowered finisher in 2nd dance

[swift tinsel]

!newmain

[umbral fulcrum]

[plush roost]

!hotsinglesinmyarea

[lilac stag]

only during lust

[umbral fulcrum]

ah ok ty

[warm marlin]

very very difficult and the above version is within margin of error and very easy

[umbral fulcrum]

idk i dont think its difficult

but ok

[thin spire]

You guys keep posting the guidon tip like we all have the trinket.

[lucid frost]

Yeah, I don't have guidon, so

[lilac stag]

you’re wasting dance by holding it that long in blades

[plush roost]

Difficult no, annoying af to minmax properly. Yes.

[weak glade]

i got that shit week 1 lo

[lilac stag]

you can offset it with vanish strike and meld strike but at some point you need to get back into dance

[warm marlin]

to also snapshot guidon imo it is and it was only ever better doing that, this easy version is very good

[umbral fulcrum]

?

you just press guidon before blades

[lilac stag]

You want 2nd dance during gidion buff

[warm marlin]

you also had to snapshot the second dance

which was very precise timing

[plush roost]

When deepening shadows is fixed all will be well 🙂

[lilac stag]

At 700 with mythic the timing is pretty comfy

[lucid frost]

What's the optimization on dance / second ST for those of us without trinket tho, is it to in fact save ST as second empowered finisher as Nooj stated above

[plush roost]

Doesheknow

[lilac stag]

Ever wonder how many people don’t know it randomly stops working in raid?

[keen dome]

I personally just let it break. I will let the hand of fate decide my parse because it sure as ain't me doing it.

[plush roost]

Our bear stopped being targettable by the boss and healers last nigbt

[warm marlin]

you wont have sectec cd to do that, pretty sure you just dance twice in blades so long as itll be fully covered

[plush roost]

Was pretty funny watching lura run around and snack on dps 1 by 1

[keen dome]

Haha

[warm marlin]

been a while though

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/walmart-bear-football-gif-12037023

[keen dome]

I need more Speed.. Why can't Haste give speed.

[earnest crane]

we use shuriken storm on paladins or SS?

[cold basin]

need your help guys when i use blackpowder coup de grace macro it doesnt work sometimes it casts blackpowder when coup is ready help

[umbral fulcrum]

show macro

[dreamy wedge]

Maybe you are out of range/not facing the target.

[earnest crane]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[umbral fulcrum]

the coup bp macro should not cast anything if you are out of range for coup

[cold basin]

im trying it now it casts black powder even when coup is ready

[umbral fulcrum]

are you actually pressing the macro

[cold basin]

yes i promise you

[umbral fulcrum]

show the macro you are using

take a screenshot in game

[cold basin]

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[dense geode]

Are you in melee range

[cold basin]

yes i am : D

[fiery summit]

the amount of times ive been in m+ spamming the macro and doing nothing cause im out of range for Coup is insane

[umbral fulcrum]

that macro should not cast bp if coup is ready

regardless of range

[fiery summit]

it def wont do anything if coup is up and out of range

[dense geode]

yea but it wont cast coup if youre not in range

[umbral fulcrum]

i'm like 95% sure this guy is just not pressing his macro

[cold basin]

bro i hope you are right

[umbral fulcrum]

drag the macro to your bar

[warm marlin]

something something stealth bar

cue the scath image

[umbral fulcrum]

ooh yea it could be stance moment

for sure

[north schooner]

of course I get hero guidon from the weekly box after picking mythic guidon from vault

[fiery summit]

oh yes, i bet thats it

the macro isnt on stealth bar

[umbral fulcrum]

make sure its on your bars both in stealth and not in stealth

[cold basin]

i think ihad it on my stealth bar but not on my main bar XDDDDd

lets try it now

[fiery summit]

so dance is bringing up BP

[cold basin]

Nooj you are 200 iq and i have room temp iq

[swift tinsel]

stealth bar macro strikes again

[vagrant sinew]

I already solved it 2 min ago in general chat nooj

get rekt

[cold basin]

it works now boys nooj you were right im so dumb XDDDD

the stealth bar swap was the problem forgive me boys

[warm marlin]

yeah but now you have mythic guidon

[umbral fulcrum]

common problem

gl friend

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/unforgivable-unacceptable-gif-21786120

[cold basin]

i love you guys sorry to gank you ❤️ : D

[sullen hare]

I had a dog ass night of parsing the other day. I haven't seen a pin so is there a command?

or do I just have to manually go in and count my shadow dance lengths or something

[lilac stag]

you’ll notice it trying to fit in second Sectech

[sullen hare]

yeah they were all short all night

it was tilting as fuck

I switched to DS for vorasius and that is when it all felt like it was happening so is that related? is there any fix? should I go on to the rogue forums and say something actionable on my account???

[lilac stag]

haha. I just reload

[sullen hare]

just /reload or /reloadui? that's it??

or you mean logout and back in

[lilac stag]

reminds me of…

[sullen hare]

ah okie dokie. I'll just make a habit of logging out and back in after swapping. or I'll just do parse crime and stay one spec the entire night

yeah, that's exactly how it feels

except the worst part is that you have to intuit it, it's not as obvious as just having a button be permanently disabled

[cold basin]

Guys I got a q for you, when does one use instant poison and when to use the dot poison , because I see top rogues running both on murloc io

[left ledge]

There’s no dot poison

Sub only has instant or wound poison

Instant for damage, wound for heal reduction

Your utility poisons are crippling, atrophic, or numbing

[cold basin]

Forgive me I mean the wound poison

[lilac stag]

use wound when mobs heal

[left ledge]

It’s for heal reduction so anytime there’s healing on mobs

Some mobs I think in maisara heal? Or regen

I’m not sure

But the dps loss is really not even noticeable in m+

[hazy breach]

Some mobs in terrace, some in nexus point

[cold basin]

Ty man appreciate it

[lilac stag]

oh noes

[cold basin]

I just swapped from feral to rogue and it’s been a blast should have done this sooner

[left ledge]

Enjoy it as long as you can

[lilac stag]

check back in a month please

[dry surge]

Save yourself

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is fun man

[placid storm]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[lucid jackal]

U guys are just haters

[dry surge]

I love this class

No other scratches the itch

It just needs a lil more atm

[left ledge]

Rogue is fun - benched on half the tier

[keen dome]

[left ledge]

It is fun doing keys on my mw alt I guess

[hazy breach]

Its also genuinely looking good on non-mythic logs

[left ledge]

W rogue

[karmic harbor]

Anyone considering learning assa

[lucid jackal]

Being fun and being tuned well are two different things

[karmic harbor]

I might go assa on dragon reclear this week just for boss dam

[left ledge]

Well I can’t access the fun if I can’t play

Schrodingers fun

[hazy breach]

You could argue its not even tuned that poorly, it just has no niches, no reason to be brought at the highest end

[swift tinsel]

Idk I'm personally not enjoying either of the three specs all that much

[lucid jackal]

I can go into a dungeon and have fun

[hazy breach]

Because again, if you look at heroic logs or low percentile mythic its genuinely high up

[left ledge]

Ngl dungeons feel boring as fuck to me now

I’m getting DF flashbacks

[lucid jackal]

That one friend who hates everything

[karmic harbor]

What world rank are you?

[keen dome]

the only thing I hate right now is puzzle box

[hazy lichen]

sub rogue has the best one button rotation damage

[lucid jackal]

It'd just paladins and alleria being like, genuinely the worst melee fights of all time.

[left ledge]

In what

Raid?

[swift tinsel]

idk outside paladins sub is pretty middle-of-the-pack to slightly upper middle in heroic logs 95th percentile

[lucid jackal]

Paladins is anti melee, and then rogue isn't good at lwo target cleave anymore.

Alleria is omega anti melee, and then rogue doesn't have a niche on that fight really

[karmic harbor]

Yes your guild world rank

[left ledge]

We were 81 last tier

[stiff horizon]

But there was a rogue at liquid world first wasnt it?

[left ledge]

Typically top 100

But in the lower end of top 100

[hazy breach]

On lura yes

Not on other bosses

[karmic harbor]

Ah I see

That must suck yeah

[swift tinsel]

but ye sub is firmly mid in heroic outside a few bosses that nudge it in either direction

[left ledge]

Yeah I mean

I was sat on dragons

Paladins

Alleria

Like ok bro I’ll play next tier

[warm marlin]

I think I would have preferred being sat on paladins

Tonight will tell for alleria

[hazy lichen]

whats the point

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is good on beloren and lura

[hazy lichen]

if ur just getting benched

in a video game

[lucid jackal]

That's over 50% of the prog this tier

[left ledge]

I’m looking forwards to this but I have one fear

[hazy lichen]

thats awful

[left ledge]

I really don’t want them to overnerf

Dimensius got gutted it felt

Right after rwf basically

Lura looked very cool

[warm marlin]

I mean Lura is gonna get assassinated

[exotic steeple]

damn casualaddict called rogue an affix for the group lmao

[left ledge]

Would love to experience Lura but I WONT

I’ll just get a bogged down version of her

3 symbol memory game

[warm marlin]

I still had a great time on Dimensius post nerf

[left ledge]

I had an ok time progging him

[lilac stag]

We’ll get the play assa on it because lust is in execute

[warm marlin]

NK felt neutered though

[left ledge]

But when they did the additional nerfs for farm

It was awful

Cds didn’t work

[warm marlin]

We had like a 3% pull pre nerf and then 2 shot him on reset

[left ledge]

I’m playing DS on lura

[keen dome]

Maximum purple on the purple boss

I approve

[warm marlin]

Imagine the funnel value

[lilac stag]

Did you run it on Vora?

[hardy mirage]

Yo. Is it good to craft both weapons ?

[lilac stag]

generally speaking no

[hardy mirage]

hm hm. okay. well thanks, gotta think more now haha

[lilac stag]

recommended crafts are 1 weapon with embellishment, one offpiece (belt/bracers) with embellishment. Then fill in the low gear (legs, ring, neck, boots, cloak)

[finite crow]

yo sims are pointing me to use guidon + puzzle is that okay??

[compact spindle]

is crucible of erratic energies bad for us? i dont see it on the trinket list but i see undreamt gods oozing vestige at b rank according to wow head guide but see rogues using it in parses (erratic energies that is)

[alpine wraith]

dog ass vault

[alpine wraith]

it just has low illvl

but it is better than most hero track trinks from dungeons

[compact spindle]

ah alright thank you

[coral pier]

is it okay to bind Light Company Guidon with Shadowblades in a macro ?

[spice matrix]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[spice matrix]

no because deepening shadows wont trigger your haste correctly to extend dance

[hazy breach]

Its very good

[lilac stag]

Mythic tier.

[spice matrix]

also mythic shaggy

[peak matrix]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[alpine wraith]

yo wtf have they done to valeera

since last week

she is doing 200k dps

in delves

[swift tinsel]

yeah she's a menace as all three roles

[alpine wraith]

i already have helmet and crafted legs xd

so it is socket

xddddddd

big upgrade

[crystal bone]

[shrewd lantern]

4 ilvl on legs

large

[celest ice]

what non damaging poison you use in m+ in 14~ range

[lucid jackal]

Probably numbing

[sullen hare]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[sullen hare]

@sullen spruce in case you'd like a mildly infuriating read, here's all the current bugs with strikethrough text for solved bugs

[stone vessel]

in imperator boss, should I hold SB for adds? similarly, hold SB for saldahar dmg amp?

[vale pine]

any key you don't get oneshot numbing > atrophic

[sullen hare]

add damage sounds like a fantasy but amp damage phases are our bread and butter

[finite crow]

do we insta max upgrade myth pieces?

and can i run guidon + box?

[sullen hare]

looks like lorrgs is split on the second dmg amp but the first seems like a no-brainer

[wintry heart]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[sullen hare]

some are senders, some aren't. I think it just depends on your guild's kill times

[shrewd lantern]

thats fallen king isnt it

[sullen hare]

first half of the question was imperator, second half was for dps holdies during salad bars

[shrewd lantern]

oh idk about heroic

mythic you generally hold a few seconds for amp

[sullen hare]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/fallenking-salhadaar

[frigid dragon]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah on mythic the holds are only a few seconds

[sullen hare]

that snippet was from sub lorrrrrrgs and it doesn't look like there's no consensus on second damage amp but the first one is a no brainer like I said

[shrewd lantern]

the second one is a bit….long

but also logs on that boss are inflated by small add padders

[quaint lodge]

^

[compact spindle]

its really worth it to hold it and not send immediately? if its 1:30 in anyways wouldnt shadow blades be up by then

[crystal bone]

on first boss its probably a send on cd angle

[sullen hare]

it's not 1:30 in it's like 1:40 in

[crystal bone]

if its prog u wil likely get an extra blades if u send on cd

[sullen hare]

that's why we hold

[quaint lodge]

Saladhaar logs are pretty shit to go look at for advice

Just use your best judgement

[shrewd lantern]

the first amp is barely a hold

[sullen hare]

right

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills we're just resaying what I already said

[shrewd lantern]

I mean personally i just went with as long as full energy cast was 20s

i’d send an st

[compact spindle]

ya i misunderstood and when i went to the site the first shadow blades cast was not showing cuz it scrolled to the right a little so iw as like "why are we holding we could get 2 in"

[shrewd lantern]

the top logs on the boss have like 20m to the small adds

i dont recall how long his actual spin amp phase is

i think its slightly shorter than the full blades duration

[stone vessel]

is vessel of tortured souls good on sub?

[quaint lodge]

20 seconds

If you're exact you can fit in both sectecs

Requires holding a dance though to do it as soon as it comes out

[dry surge]

Yes but it's bait imo since you need to focus up to find the souls

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah ideally you want to rip your first dance sectech as it starts

Generally speaking advice is to play the voidstorm trinket as your passive

until hero+ gaze or plume

[thorn sundial]

guys is it generally better to hold sectec for blades or blades for sectec?

like if blades up in 10 seconds, patchwerk, do i press or hold sectec?

[stone vessel]

tried it once and it kinds made rolling the gcd much harder lol

[shrewd lantern]

vessel doesnt cost a gcd

what

[steel horizon]

Numbing is worth it on chimaerus intermission right?

[shrewd lantern]

If you have 2 rogues

[wintry heart]

Does anyone have a MSUF profiel they dont mind sharing

[shrewd lantern]

If you actually reach the add out in timbuktu you might as well kick its fear cast

over just using numbing

[dry surge]

You're talking in moon runes

[solemn hedge]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[lilac stag]

Our tanks didn’t need atrophic. Numbing was better for interrupts.

[pliant cove]

Is platinum star band still on of our best options for ring? It says so in every guide and I got one myth track in vault. But when I go look at top sub rogues they're prioritizing other rings (even on hero track)

[cold basin]

Btw guys is using coup e grace always optimal in aoe scenarios no matter how many adds? Ty

[dense geode]

anything can change when trying to get 700 haste

[lilac stag]

We’re 2 mythic vaults into the season. What you look up is more than likely best available to that player.

I’d suggest you look at what’s best for you and your current gear

[lucid jackal]

You need 700 haste

Jewelry is good at solving that especially initially

[warm marlin]

you do have time to send a raw sectec at 1:20 to have it up for amp!

[shrewd lantern]

dont matter im cooked anyway

top logs having 15m nimble damage to small orbs

while tanks drag boss on a world tour

[lilac stag]

boss dmg parses.

[strange harness]

Any auto tricks addon?

[hazy breach]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[strange harness]

ty

[indigo nexus]

Possible that raidbots tells me to get Acuity of the Ren'dorei wep enchant twice?

[shadow lance]

Yes, enchant's been fixed

[indigo nexus]

Meaning? Should I use it twice?

[shadow lance]

Yes

[forest moss]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[barren wave]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wintry heart]

UI

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[plush pecan]

What to pick? I sim like 2-3k more with HC trinkets, guidon HC from vault in ST. But in m+ I barely sim any higher at all except if I crest up current trinkets

[dense geode]

what do you care more about raid or m+

Guidon still isnt bad in m+ by any means still feels better since 1m 30 and not a 2s cast

[stoic anchor]

hello! I got a little ppc question. so I got M light's gideon . when i go to upgrade it , i can't see if i upgrade it that i will get more haste on use . on 2/6 it gives 633 haste ilvl276. anyone knows if it gives more on 6/6? ty in advance

[dense geode]

Yea haste goes up with upgrades

[stoic anchor]

i also wanted to flex absolute banger tmog and title ofc<3

[stoic anchor]

ty man

[plush pecan]

probably m+

[sullen hare]

yes and also grats

[stoic anchor]

tyvm

[west tide]

i have mythic gaze and guidon ❤️

[dusky yacht]

W

I got champ of both

But mythic hungering victory

[tepid trellis]

alleria is fine imo

[west tide]

dannng we were kinda nice on dragons

[dusky yacht]

I hope I get a good vault this week man, ommission would be great kinda, cause I got occlusion last week and I can’t get omission to drop for me I’m cursed

[west tide]

i love sittin paladins and alleria ima just come in and loot bis

[vale osprey]

same ❤️

[dusky yacht]

Amazing gaze, how sweet the sound

[west tide]

[shrewd lantern]

its a fullset

[stoic anchor]

tru , tru

[thick siren]

yoyo, will be playing from EU soon for a little while. Do you guys think sub is manageable on ~140 ms?

[ornate lake]

I play with 120 ms ping on EU and have 90-95 mythic logs so far

[quaint breach]

deathstalker build for 1 egg beloren?

[ornate lake]

So yeah

[dusky yacht]

I play from inside the sun you’ll be fine bro

[ashen goblet]

why would we not want to have a macro with shadow dance and shadow blades on it

[compact spindle]

i dont even need my monitors on to get that parse.. come on

[ornate lake]

Seriously, until unless it's >200, you would be fine

[abstract turret]

Does guidon not sim well? I got a warning on my sim saying that it was simmed at low precision. It also sims lower then all of my other trinkets

[topaz crow]

are the talents somewhat changed in pinned or they are the same

[versed sky]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[thick siren]

thank u friends

[bronze karma]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[supple barn]

it indeed works

[vale osprey]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[dense geode]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[limber folio]

decent log on chimaerus

[dusky yacht]

Nicu

[drowsy urchin]

Cant wait to get real trinkets :/

[dusky yacht]

Nice

[limber folio]

[drowsy urchin]

Garfield doesnt seem convinced :D

[dusky yacht]

I am don’t worry

Super proud of you

[limber folio]

im still trying to understand how people are gigapadding on dragons

if they are just holding cds for when adds spawn

[swift tinsel]

orbs

[limber folio]

[swift tinsel]

just giga orb pad

only way to parse as sub now lol

[limber folio]

actually doing is kind of fucking your cds all around tho

or am i wrong

[drowsy urchin]

It should sync up 2-3 times

With Guidon

[limber folio]

hmmmge

depends

[dusky yacht]

Huh orbs, they mean adds?

[limber folio]

orbs are the adds ye

[dusky yacht]

Aight gotchu

[drowsy urchin]

Is it padding if you die when they stay alive 🤔

[limber folio]

they are called orbs tho

[dusky yacht]

Seems like such a cheese tho

[limber folio]

i mean i tried to pad

when i could

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lilac stag]

Imagine your boomkins not decimating them

[dusky yacht]

These are the orb spawntimers?

[swift tinsel]

you can dance into pretty much every orb spawn

[swift tinsel]

yes

[swift tinsel]

our boomkin is special

[dusky yacht]

Interesting thanks for the info

[swift tinsel]

lorrgs.io

has all timers

[dusky yacht]

Do you wait with sectec dance for when they group themselves or just send it

[rare plaza]

Hi fellow rogues, do we have a route we can use to sim properly right now? Instead of 2min 5 targets and 5 min 1 target.

[dusky yacht]

But tbh idk if that’s even worth it like sure you cheese yourself to a good parse maybe but they already die super quick so idk

[swift tinsel]

idk I don't do it

I cba to parse pad

it literally doesn't matter

if your range are awake

[dusky yacht]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

have your ddh's eradicate them into oblivion

I just stab my silly little dragon with my silly little daggers and clones

[dusky yacht]

Rather focus on helping prog than looking fancy with a useless high parse

[swift tinsel]

do good boss damage

pray tanks position them close enough to free cleave when possible

but with ours can't bank on that

[warm marlin]

dungeonslice is good

[dusky yacht]

I feel so awkward speccing bp on some of the fights and then it’s not worth it in the end because of a variety of reasons lmao

[swift tinsel]

I could be bp'ing them but idc

[rare plaza]

Thought it never was great, but if you say so.

[swift tinsel]

for a lot of classes/specs its not very well maintained but for rogue/sub it is

idk maybe next week I black powder over evisc

I'll flip a coin

[warm marlin]

it was created by and is (i believe) maintained by rogues

all 3 specs use it for m+ as well

not great on other classes

[dusky yacht]

Hmm. Weird cause it never accurately reflects my dps in m+ at all

[iron plover]

unsure what to do with my vault, got heroic piece that is better than my mythic pieces do I take it?

not trinket but heroic neck form Crown

[swift tinsel]

well in general its hard to model exact key performance

[iron plover]

have cleared raid no neck

[swift tinsel]

because there are a ton of confounding variables

pull size/speed, comp, etc

[dusky yacht]

But then like why use it?

[swift tinsel]

because it gives a snapshot of an average aoe->st->aoe->st type scenario

isntead of just 5-8 bosses or patchwork

since m+ is a mix of both

[dusky yacht]

Right

[swift tinsel]

its not meant to be a 1:1

to an actual key

[dusky yacht]

So just to see what trinket would be better in m+ as opposed to in st

[swift tinsel]

because you won't see the same overall in every single key

yes

[dusky yacht]

Gotcha thanks

[swift tinsel]

it gives you a snapshot of performance in both st and aoe, instead of just one or the other

like a patchwork/dummy sim would

[hasty jolt]

guys one question , hello to eveerybody , im a new sub , used to play outlaw but i came to the jungle.. is it good as far as concerned to the macros , to macro shadow Blades with Shadow dance? so that in any situation , if they are both on to be pressed together so that i dont lose time casting ? or that affects something else on the cds rotation?

[dusky yacht]

I don’t do this because you want to cast shadowblades a bit before, and you are macroing sectec with dance anyway. I macro potion with blades personally.

[hasty jolt]

in any case , if shadowblades are up and shadow dance is not , and secret tec is up to its ok to cast them together even if Sdance its not

thats why im asking

cause it doesnt affect in anything

[dusky yacht]

Shadowdance should always be up for blades

[hasty jolt]

to have them in macro

yes

[dusky yacht]

If blades is at <10 sec cd left, you hold sectec dance for blades.

[hasty jolt]

yes but that , even if secret teq is not up somehow , whats the issue on having Shadow Blades and shadowdance

in macro

u cast them same time so that second shadow dance will be in the gap of shadowblades timer

[dusky yacht]

I mean you seem convinced so go ahead

[swift tinsel]

You always want to cast dance with secret technique

Outside of 2nd dance in blades bc that’s a unique situation

It’s reasonably fine to have a blades+dance+sectech macro but you’ll also want just a dance+sectech macro

[sacred jewel]

looks about right, but i too dont understand why you'd want to shadowblades a bit before how does it matter

[dusky yacht]

You want blades to be up when you sectec

[west tide]

chat i thought it was like 20 sec

[hasty jolt]

So u mean that in the rotation , there might be a time that if i macro shadow blades with shadowdance , secret teeq might not have shadowdance on ? @swift tinsel

[sacred jewel]

is there delay on sb?

U want to have the choice between using SB or not when fighting trash

like you wouldn't wanna send SB on a dying pack

[dusky yacht]

Macro everything into one button and press it really hard then question every bit of advice you get to the contrary as you parse 09 on normals

[hallow mortar]

first kill + 99 log = weapon drop poggers

[valid falcon]

sometimes if my sectec comes back from cd and i still dont have SD (assuming it's a rotation issue) how long is it ok to hold sectec until SD?

[swift tinsel]

If you macro dance with secret technique it will benefit

[hasty jolt]

i know that . i understood that 100% my main issue is that why not to macro shadowblades with shadow dance too . is there any case scenario that if i do this i wont have secret teq on cd and i will lose dps?

thats my main issue to solve @swift tinsel

[sacred jewel]

use a SB+SD+ST macro and another SD+ST macro

[tulip viper]

should we be using secret technique on CD or just using it every cast of shadowdance? really struggling to optimise sub.

[sacred jewel]

only with shadow dance

[vale osprey]

Okay they're not myth but guild option HC clear went well

[tulip viper]

stuggling to break past 75-80 parses

i also hate the cast time on puzzle box on the pull 😄

[shrewd lantern]

its literally

[swift tinsel]

its fine to macro them together

[shrewd lantern]

strike then press box

not much worse than popping guidon and having to wait

for the update

[novel storm]

yeah that guidon delay is a killer

[shrewd lantern]

the only thing about puzzlebox i dislike is the cd

which makes some kill timers shit

[dusky yacht]

Sick bro, haven’t raided this week cause getting dental work done in Croatia, but you beat my parse on vorasius and also got dagger twinsies lmao

[valid falcon]

<- certified puzzlebox hater

[hallow mortar]

one time lucky

[dusky yacht]

Nice one bro gratz

[hallow mortar]

first mythic item

[shrewd lantern]

non 3min bracket kill timers are so cooked

[sacred jewel]

its not that bad if u strike+guidon and then continue, 1 gcd delay

[novel storm]

Yeah I have been playing around with ways to make it not drive me slightly crazy, I will try the strike+guidon

[sacred jewel]

my best vault item is a champion gaze, beating out all the other hc/myth options which is sad

[sweet moss]

is puzzle actually better than guidon in m_

m+

[tepid quartz]

might have 2 stupid questions, but why does my sim want me to have crit gems instead of mastery? And is matrix a sim bait? becouse it out sims better than feather for me.

[novel storm]

I believe technically yes but Guidon aint bad either really

[crystal bone]

better for your overall dmg in a key, but at a single target loss

[shrewd lantern]

I think if they're the same tier yeah

i.e both hero or both myth

13s dance with guidon and tfd is very funny though

[peak matrix]

Hi, i have a dilema, in vault i have Myth Track Ring (C/V) and a Myth Track CLoak (C/H), no rpelacing my current champion trakc ring wit hthe Myth track one would tank my Haste ( no where near the 700 we need) should i just bite the bullet and take the cloak?

[sweet moss]

got it yeah

i have veteran guidon but myth puzzle in vault...

[shrewd lantern]

i feel puzzle wins purely because the tiers

means more agi

[sweet moss]

yea just changes rotiation so not used to it now

[shrewd lantern]

tbf its guidon that changes it

puzzle just

[sweet moss]

yeah haha

[shrewd lantern]

makes your booms

[sweet moss]

but im used to guidon for weeks

[shrewd lantern]

go bigger boom

[sweet moss]

do u still second dance in ur first blades?

with puzzle

[shrewd lantern]

you generally just send without guidon

iirc

maybe funny business with lust

[earnest pike]

what u open with guidon or puzzle

i got both

[shrewd lantern]

take off one of them

[dusky yacht]

It’s my second cause I got occlusion from vault, but getting myth hungering victory with a 98 parse on my first mythic raid ever (mythic didn’t exist back when I raided in the old days) felt really good, I’m trial in my guild too

[shrewd lantern]

[earnest pike]

i dont have better option atm

[shrewd lantern]

get the voidstorm renown trinket

[swift tinsel]

get renown passive

and get the node things for it

[earnest pike]

i have it but isnt puzzle or guidon better?

[swift tinsel]

not really if you have one or the other

[steel horizon]

btw anyone know if blind works as a stop on the chimaerus intermission fear adds?

[hallow mortar]

yeah but usually guild need to help you little (not padding too much ) 😄 i feel like every boss almost now

[swift tinsel]

if you're absolutely dead-set on using double on use, probably just box first then guidon 1:30 blades

and then just alternate

[earnest pike]

i have crucible tho

[swift tinsel]

so use crucible then guidon or box

[earnest pike]

what would you recommend

[keen dome]

haha, my Beloren dagger rolled indestructable

finally, a use for it

[swift tinsel]

guidon for raid, box for m+ probs

[earnest pike]

aight bet ty

[swift tinsel]

actually huge roll

I keep 50 auto-hammers in my bags at all times in case I need to repair mid-key lol

bc yellow daggers pop up allllll the damn time

[dusky yacht]

80 dagger durability with perma snd be like

[keen dome]

Yeah, same. Auto-hammers own

Not just snd but also warning signs.

[sweet moss]

ah fr okay

so no like using at 8seconds business and all that

[swift tinsel]

yeah snd+swift slasher and warning signs is a turbo-durability destroyer

[sweet moss]

but like, do u send dance in blades if u dotn have stech up?

[swift tinsel]

imagine if snd scaled with mastery again instead of haste

heh

[shrewd lantern]

nah pretty sure with puzzlebox the game just slams both dances back to back

[livid gorge]

so if i am at 700 haste is the guidon still worth using or is something else better to have?

[sweet moss]

ah okay

haha

soudns easy

compared

[sweet moss]

use

[swift tinsel]

you wanna have 700 haste plus guidon, not instead

[limber folio]

any lads here on alleria yet

[thorn sundial]

guys is it generally better to hold sectec for blades or blades for sectec? like if blades is up in 10 seconds do i press or hold sectec

[swift tinsel]

the combo of the haste stat on gear/oils/flask plus haste injection from guidon will allow a second sectech in blades

[livid gorge]

Ah gotcha gotcha

[swift tinsel]

and haste from gear + guidon + lust allows a second supercharged sectech in blades

[livid gorge]

ty ty

[sweet moss]

sectec for blades

i THINK

lol

[sacred jewel]

if blades is up soon, you hold st

[swift tinsel]

hold sectech if blades cd is <10, hold blades cd to ensure 2x dances which is easy with 4pc

[sacred jewel]

your goal is to get 2 dances each blades, besides st each sd

[earnest pike]

at 670 haste i wont get this window?

[swift tinsel]

it basically runs itself once you have 4pc and you don't have to hold blades much if at all

[swift tinsel]

you can you just have to be very quick with your globals

[open moss]

Feather Myhic or Guidon hc or Puzzle box hc?^^

[thorn sundial]

ye makes sense just wanted to be sure for those unaligned moments

[sacred jewel]

670 is fine, u got like 0.4s leeway at 682 or so haste

[swift tinsel]

the extra haste allows a bit of a buffer for human latency plus coup extra 0.2 sec gcd

[dusky yacht]

Sim or source trust me bro guidon hc

[thorn sundial]

btw why is crit so much better in st relative to in aoe?

[hazy breach]

Its not

[swift tinsel]

mastery is big for potent powder

[hazy breach]

Mastery is just way better in aoe with PP

[dusky yacht]

Not to mention the random coup de grace crits for massive ego boosts, these increase your psychological dps capacity by 69420%

[frail bone]

everything im simming is pushing me to drop mastery and run more crit and haste..

[dusky yacht]

How much mastery do you got (%)

[frail bone]

im already at 21% haste and 22% crit, with 55% mastery unbuffed.

[dusky yacht]

Hell naw

[swift tinsel]

yeah you wanna drop some haste

[dusky yacht]

But for mastery

Not for crit right

[swift tinsel]

sure

[frail bone]

not according to the sim output.

which is odd.

[alpine wraith]

i have around 78% unbuffed

102 with flask

[dusky yacht]

That must be your sim settings tbh

[alpine wraith]

depends do you have 4 set and guidon

[frail bone]

its what ever the setup is for sub.. I havent changed anything

[swift tinsel]

think I have almost 1k mastery unbuffed

[alpine wraith]

otherwise haste might be quite high

[swift tinsel]

699 haste, then like 470 crit or so

I run way more keys than raid content so the higher mastery is fine by me

[keen dome]

Mastery is my friend in general

[frail bone]

why are the top key pushers pushing like 30% crit?

[fallow bramble]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[obtuse falcon]

Hey Im Kuro relatively new to WoW and Rogue. I was wondering if im doing something wrong or if im missing something. But Im having energy issues it seems like im waiting on my energy to come back

[dusky yacht]

Wrong channel, this is sub, we don’t have energy issues

See assas

[swift tinsel]

!design

rip

[swift tinsel]

outside of Dance our energy economy is notably lower/slower than in Dance

that's how the spec is by design so that feeling is pretty normal

[lilac moss]

As sub? You dont really want to spam Eviscerate and/or combo builders outside of dance anyways

[keen dome]

Sub doesn't really have the same relationship to energy as the other specs. Outside of our cooldowns (I.e., Shadow Dance) we do no damage and don't need energy. Inside our cooldowns, we have infinite energy to do damage. Having no energy and feeling starved outside of your cooldowns is perfectly normal.

It's the optimal time to post a pun in your party chat.

[tidal solstice]

or use puzzle box

[keen dome]

puzzle box goes in the sea

[dense geode]

how many globals in dance?

[tidal solstice]

people be like " i hate the cast time" but have like seconds every 20 to just twiddle thumbs

[dense geode]

7 or 8

[keen dome]

That's true, I am those people. Into the sea.

[tidal solstice]

"i like leaving damage on the table"\

[dusky yacht]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1487567692931010621/puzzlebox.gif

[keen dome]

I like having fun in the video game and not using a trinket that is obnoxious to use. It's relative.

[dusky yacht]

I’ll spend my extra 2 sec gathering shadow tech stacks, keep your rubix cube

[tidal solstice]

truuuue

i got a hc guidon last night with speed and i just prefer it cause its easy

[keen dome]

It adds just enough cognitive load to k ey pulls to really annoy me

Having to think 2 seconds in front of where I need to be

[swift tinsel]

cast times in general as melee feel obtrusive

[keen dome]

Unless I know the precise pull style, it's often a "do I pop it now or now or now" as the tank is gathering.

Esp when they do something unorthodox

[tall bloom]

there is any diff between dagger off hand or sword-axe?

[swift tinsel]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[swift tinsel]

you should use a dagger offhand

you'll lose a lot of combo points otherwise

because of how Shadow Techniques works

[keen dome]

We can equip one but we really really shouldn't due to those aforementioned reasons

[tall bloom]

thanks ❤️

[limpid gull]

The bis list says that platinum and bifurcation band are our bis rings but everyone is using the set bonus rings so i was wondering if the bis list is out of date

[swift tinsel]

BiS is relative, you can use either setup if you want

[keen dome]

BiS lists in general are the theoretical maximum sim damage setup where you need every possible piece iirc.

[jade oasis]

BiS is only BiS if u have every single thing in the BiS list

[swift tinsel]

^^

[jade oasis]

otherwise just sim urself

[limpid gull]

Okay understood, i do have evreything else so i was wondering

[keen dome]

Trinket lists are very good, but BiS themselves should be ignored. Sim or just ask for advice. A lot of it can be eyeballed atm

[swift tinsel]

the difference between the two ring setups is pretty small

[keen dome]

Hit 700 haste (Ideally), mastery + crit. Bingo blasto

[dusky yacht]

And I mean you want the 4p obviously and mythic dagger mainhand is also obviously big W

[warm marlin]

sim has them better for me

[swift tinsel]

yeah I ran bifurcation+platinum star band til I replaced by star band with hero paladin ring

[dusky yacht]

I got hero bifurcation but also mythic occlusion please shoot me

[swift tinsel]

I hate npx so I'm never gonna farm it for a hero ring

[keen dome]

Alleria neck + Nexus rings is such a lovely amount of haste that I can have other items not have haste.

[keen dome]

but damage amp????

[swift tinsel]

will take the set if i get it in vault but won't sweat if I don't

[swift tinsel]

I do like doing over 200k single target damage

[keen dome]

I'm sad they took our utility away in that dungeon

[swift tinsel]

wym can we not disarm lasers anymore

most op util in the game

[keen dome]

And by utility i mean the incredibly niche thing that didn't matter at all but I was really good at it: stunning the engineer guys as they die to stop them dropping barrels

[dusky yacht]

I mean it makes omission in my vault a massive W now that I got occlusion mythic, but wouldn’t have minded mythic gaze if you know what I mean

[swift tinsel]

I distract the roaming seer a bunch to keep it from trolling

[warm marlin]

yeah removing stunning the engineer guys was fun for my group to discover when they kidnapped me into a 17 this reset

[swift tinsel]

that's kinda fun

[warm marlin]

[sullen hare]

pretty sure I'm in the same exact boat

[keen dome]

It was a lot of fun preventing barrels and having people go "..Where were the barrels?"

[swift tinsel]

we just get the extra barrels a bunch

love that for us

[keen dome]

You can still still blind the piggyback void demon though

[swift tinsel]

the what

[keen dome]

the piggyback void demon who jumps on another one and shields them both

[dusky yacht]

Let me know when you find the emergecy flares

[swift tinsel]

ohhhh

ye

[keen dome]

You can stun him off on the amp side and end it immediately

[swift tinsel]

yeah those lil dudes are really annoying

[keen dome]

I ran nexus a lot so I just started trying everything on everyone

[sullen hare]

were those the big orange crayons? already ate 'em. also I've got myth bifurcation and maxed out normal occlusion

[dusky yacht]

[swift tinsel]

I just do my silly little kicks and stun the smudges

[dusky yacht]

Damn we’re cooked bro

[swift tinsel]

throw out a kidney on transferrence

[keen dome]

Also if you disable the beams you don't get to watch people run into them

[swift tinsel]

apparently you can negate your range dps by tanking mobs near the beams but on the little 4set of stairs

[keen dome]

Haha

[swift tinsel]

on the other side of the beam

bc the stairs cause LoS issues

supposedly

[lean rover]

I looked at 10 different sub rogues on salhadaar and no one is using SS multiple times to ensure AA proc. Does something change on this fight? or should we no longer SS for AA procs

[swift tinsel]

or our BM hunter is just dumb

both equally possible

[coral hemlock]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

they might just be getting them naturally and not needing to force

if its going into the amp you can def prep for it

[tidal solstice]

pretty sure we only SS for supercharged

[lean rover]

I'm not sure what you mean prep for it once I use evis. the proc is gone and I have to SS twice to get another one

[swift tinsel]

if its for the damage amp, you just don't use finishers for a few sec before blades/dance

[lean rover]

What I'm saying is during the 20 sec Dance no one is SS twice for AA proc

[fossil forge]

holy pog raid loot

[lean geyser]

Does 2nd beloren soak happen even if you outdps it

[fossil forge]

i had dagger in vault taking socket

[lean geyser]

on hc

?

[fossil forge]

bismillah it dropped i knew it

[swift tinsel]

a bunch of them just have the aa proc naturally

and a few of the top logs do double strike

[lean rover]

If you look at the Erryn logs they only get AA at 6sec and 10 sec. Two of those evis during that timeframe would not have AA procs. This is what I'm seeing over and over again and I think it's to get more evis. hits during shadow dance

[vale osprey]

Didn't look like perfecto was doing it in the race, not sure about Exile. How much DPS was it meant to add?

[warm marlin]

the top salhadar logs are all going to be people padding on little orbs the best they can not playing 100% optimally

maybe they also do play it optimally but striking for apex with sc is good

[swift tinsel]

[lean rover]

? I'm looking specifically at the 6sec to 10sec timeframe not 2.5

[swift tinsel]

the 2.5 sec one would be the apex you would have forced if you didn't have the proc

bc that is the supercharged finisher

and they aren't in dance again getting more supercharged finishers until 14sec

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[swift tinsel]

you aren't forcing apex onto every finisher in dance, and haven't for a few weeks

[plush roost]

Ive already missed the boat and wasnt in on week 1 saladbar

Eternal purple parse

[swift tinsel]

rip

[warm marlin]

the ethical 40% of overall damage dealt to enduringvoid

[swift tinsel]

you'll get em next time tiger

[plush roost]

Not the way we play that fight kekw

Its a ranged pad world

[swift tinsel]

you mean this whole raid

[swift tinsel]

surely next tier is melee friendly

and ranged are the ones getting area denial city

[warm marlin]

spread cleave fight -> gapped by spriest boomie
burst cleave fight -> gapped by devourer mm
consistent cleave fight -> gapped by wait.... also devourer mm

throw in demo and frost somewhere

[swift tinsel]

you mean the devourer who certainly needed an aura buff

and got one

oh and the only viable melee being the least-tied-to-melee melee

[warm marlin]

oh and aug does all the above by how it works

[swift tinsel]

i.e. ret uhdk

who also have really strong boss damage

and ret with burst funnel in ES

[warm marlin]

the same udk who was bad for 8 hours before emergency hotfix buffs to make it "competitive" again (i.e. the best melee dps)

[swift tinsel]

and execute

[swift tinsel]

yeah this right here was the big "we don't really have a grasp on what we're doing with balance" moment of the tier

for me

and then everything that followed it was an affirmation of that

and the wrist-slap to mm

[warm marlin]

melee is fine on heroic 50th percentile logs

all is good

[swift tinsel]

while you still saw 4 of them in a few raid fights

not just of the same class

the same spec

4

but hey we were in 1.20 of the last 4 bosses of the tier

and should have been in 0

for another uhdk

but this means we're gonna get a huge raid buff utility glow up right surely of course it has to happen

[nimble nymph]

Hey, do we not use SnD anymore as Sub? Even though we have talents that improve it

[swift tinsel]

you get it for free from casting eviscerate/coup

via the talent Cut to the Chase

[swift tinsel]

also this is almost certainly not going to happen

or if it does it will be the weirdest least-good incarnation

atro is now 4% but still inconsistent as fuck

or something like that

idk

w/e

[nimble nymph]

Ohhhh! I see it now, thanks alot!

[wet jacinth]

yo o/ is it valid to craft neck/ring with my sparks ? i have my 2 embellished items and academy drops dont like me so i was debating a crafted ring

[gilded thistle]

does a build exist where you focus more on builder damage and spec into shit like perforated veins and the rotten with gloomblade? Or is that just not gonna work no matter what

[granite hinge]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[swift tinsel]

it would do decidedly less damage

[gilded thistle]

would be cool to do a bit more outside burst windows is all

but i guess i should just go play assass then

[undone cliff]

Try it. Might fit your playstyle and be fun to at lease goofy around on

[swift tinsel]

the problem with buffing outside-dance damage would be having to pull it from inside-dance damage

[north garnet]

Okay i need big brains right now

100 hero crests to spend
Send into rings? I may get hands and dagger from 2nd boss on mythic or vault. Possible neck from heroic Alleria and next week shoulder craft (legs were myth tierset from week 2)

[gilded thistle]

yeah

[swift tinsel]

and our damage profile is already flattening as-is

[lucid jackal]

Probably shoulder or ring

[swift tinsel]

at least relative to last xpac

[fair phoenix]

plaiyng sub or assa on dg right now?:

i think i will start on 15 or 16

[plush roost]

u can play either, assa will get bette rthe higher keys go

[fair phoenix]

yey e

sub more bom bom on 14

[pure cloud]

So I I see on the logs on what rogues are doing for the council fight cuz I need that ring. I see that rank 1 rogue (assa) is doing 20k less than an aug evoker with a 16% parse

[hollow raptor]

for paladins?

[pure cloud]

Yeah lol

[hollow raptor]

if ur playing sub its literally just black powder and shuriken storm spam

[hazy breach]

Well yeah rogue stinks on paladins

[hollow raptor]

unless youre talking about mythic which is probably the same thing tbh

[pure cloud]

I know this but seeing the juxtaposition…

[hollow raptor]

well rogue is worse than aug rn

so its not surprising

[hazy breach]

Literally every single spec is worse than aug

Its the best spec in the game

[pure cloud]

Not surprised just a little salty seeing r1 rogue with 2 grey parses miles ahead lol

[hollow raptor]

have you ever looked at feral?

i'd say we have it pretty good

[pure cloud]

Also moderately fearful I’ll be culled after wipes

[hollow raptor]

are you the only rogue in your guild?

[tulip viper]

is there every a reason to ever cast a finisher on 5 or less combos?

[pure cloud]

I’m guildless, puffin everything

[hollow raptor]

not really

[pure cloud]

Pugging*

[hollow raptor]

i wouldnt worry about it then

[hazy breach]

Nope

[tulip viper]

getting odd time on 5 combos and energy is low and crawling up slowly

[hollow raptor]

you would probably have to mitigate that by sitting on ur hands for longer

its gunna feel bad to not press anything for like 10 seconds but its just how the spec plays

[west tide]

dude balance team is so bad this xpac that we might be the goats next raid

u never know

[hollow raptor]

i just miss having to think about lining up sub cds a bit

[uncut socket]

is there a guide to log reviewing atm? like what are i'm looking for?

[pure cloud]

I can see us being strong when breakpoint is easier to hit and we can just stack a bunch of secondaries

[hollow raptor]

compare your log to someone who is cranking and see what theyre doing vs what ur doing

adjust accordingly

https://lorrgs.io/

[granite hinge]

i didnt understand when to use company guidon

[uncut socket]

it even tells me on wcl frontpage 🙁

[sudden quarry]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[west tide]

use it 1 sec before ur cds

[hollow raptor]

or just macro it to shadowblades

[swift tinsel]

You still want to wait one second before dance

[west tide]

if u want u can guidon, shuriken storm at the same time so u know u waited a decent amount of time

force urself to be gcdlocked

[uncut socket]

ngl this might just be it ..

[hollow raptor]

either bind it next to your blades so u can press it slightly earlier

[swift tinsel]

And macroing it to blades means you just miss one gcd of blades

[hollow raptor]

or bind it to shadowblades and forget about it

its not gunna make or break your parse

[uncut socket]

ssshlet me be delulu

[swift tinsel]

It means potentially not extending your dance

[granite hinge]

thanks

[karmic harbor]

So

What are the chances they make guidon work

In a macro

Basically 0 for sure

[swift tinsel]

It’s known that it’s a blizzard issue

[hollow raptor]

if they wanted to fix it, they wouldve fixed it already

[swift tinsel]

But complicated

[hollow raptor]

idk blizzard is weird

[west tide]

it works macro is to shuriken storm

[swift tinsel]

How actively they’re working to fix it is another question

But they do know about it

[sullen hare]

oh that shit isn't gonna happen

[swift tinsel]

All just circles back to haste-extended dance being a faulty system

But they had to ram it into the spec

Bc being haste-agnostic was a crime apparently

I still say leave it at just Swift Slasher being our haste interaction

It accomplishes enough

Make Sectech enabled by dance

[sullen hare]

make it snapshot to the highest value during the fight

Evilge

[swift tinsel]

Instead of hasted cd

Between swift slasher and warning signs we get an influx of sht from lust

Which makes haste relevant in general

[sullen hare]

I love watching my sec tec cd wildly swing while it's counting down

[uncut socket]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/zjhgRCkntaKGxTV9/4kJATxrj6cWYMF3X?fight=36%2C38&type=casts&source=15%2C丶秘奥闪光&view=timeline well from timeline there isnt anything that screams 20k dps difference other than me missing some casual backstabbing action here and there, other than guidon action ofc, this person is prolly also better than me at utilizing apex, hence i'm looking for more than pure surface area stuff

[livid frigate]

Is there a mastery cap ? And should I be having 18 % haste and is 27 % crit too high ?

[swift tinsel]

Idk I’m just frustrated with the class direction in general and especially sub

[sullen hare]

no mastery cap, ~700 haste, and no we love crit but you need more mastery if it's that high

[swift tinsel]

To go from arguably the most fun it’s been to considering dropping the class entirely feels bad

[pure cloud]

Someone had a “!” Command for when I’m supposed to use a generator at max cp

[uncut socket]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-the-frog-kermit-conscience-gif-7254763

[sullen hare]

I downgraded to 1 month sub and paused it after it renews. I figure that's the only way I get a survey and let them know how I feel

[uncut socket]

bring back shadowdust

[swift tinsel]

I’m gonna finish out the season and then assess when it gets closer to s2

[sullen hare]

imagine how dogshit I feel when the two specs I play most are mw and sub

[pure cloud]

Unholy/sub here. The difference is pretty stark