But TBH I think most of the visuals are hard to see because we're fighting mostly void mobs or going into caves and whatnot
#subtlety
dusky yacht
It should be if you put spells on ALL you’re pvping, if you put spells on essential you just wanna see the boss, important shit like bubbles freedom, tricks, …
placid crown
Hey, what is the best in a 06:20 fight with a 2min cd trinket ?
0:00 BURST with fight potion +trinket
1:30 BURST
3:00 BURST with trinket
4:30 BURST
6:00 BURST with fight potion +trinket
or
0:00 BURST fight potion + trinket
2:00 BURST trinket
4:00 BURST trinket
6:00 BURST fight potion + trinket
grizzled gust
It should be if you put spells on ALL you’re pvping, if you put spells on essent...
that's how it SHOULD be but blizzard is blizzard
dusky yacht
0:00 BURST with fight potion +trinket
1:30 BURST
3:00 BURST with trinke...
Use trinket etc on opener unless you do get bloodlust on a crucial moment like belo’ren egg phase and this happens before 1 min 30 sec because then you won’t have cooldowns for the part where you need it, in that case just chill with sectecdances until you full send on the egg as example
vale osprey
0:00 BURST with fight potion +trinket
1:30 BURST
3:00 BURST with trinke...
The first
You use box etc as a 3 min trinket
swift tinsel
isn't this just old FW debuff and Shadowed Finishers
grizzled gust
I press box before going into a pull and then dont touch it again unless the stars align because I keep forgetting i have it due to the channel being annoying
dusky yacht
Then don’t use box because why
swift tinsel
just managed a +10 skyreach where the other two dps were doing 22k and 26k respectively on the first boss
dusky yacht
just managed a +10 skyreach where the other two dps were doing 22k and 26k respe...
Sick
swift tinsel
twas an experience
silver grove
I was using guidon and it was easy to get a second secret tech in my shadow blades window but I switched to puzzle box, it’s still doable to get 2 techs right?
dusky yacht
Go to training dummy and check
iron whale
isn't this just old FW debuff and Shadowed Finishers
fw?
silver grove
am at work and was just thinking about it lol
swift tinsel
fw?
find weakness
when it was a debuff
targets with said debuff procced an extra shadow damage hit from evisc/bp
iron whale
a yes
swift tinsel
yes
dusky yacht
I mean I knew that but I thought it was an ‘individual debuff’, idk
swift tinsel
it used to cause problems with the number of targets that we switched from evisc to bp with nimble
based on number of FW out
dusky yacht
Oh
dusky yacht
I mean cool I guess
hollow spear
wasn't cool
tight roost
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
manic salmon
hi guys i hope you have a lovely day on the bench today
fallow glade
keen dome
rip
chilly kite
i'm waiting for liquid to wake up, like how was that not a wake up early call when echo hit 14% a few hours ago
if nobody died that was a kill
fading saffron
how we looking for tues? sin looking like a swap choice or are we sitting pretty on sub
red flame
Rogue do low damage (ローグの攻撃はゴミ). same parse as arms war (パース赤、戦士と同じ). Bring shame to guild (ギルドの恥). M+ instant decline. (招待拒否). I stand in city like NPC.
lucid jackal
how we looking for tues? sin looking like a swap choice or are we sitting pretty...
Rogue is ass in raid either way
A 0.8% buff doesn't really matter
its like fine on the last 2 bosses
vale pine
because there is more to it than storm vs. evi vs. strike vs bp
chilly kite
how we looking for tues? sin looking like a swap choice or are we sitting pretty...
atrophic poison, thats your spec
vale pine
its kind of the small details that matter
think of it like this, league of legends, each player has 4 buttons
what is so interessting in pressing 4 buttons
shrewd lantern
Rogue do low damage (ローグの攻撃はゴミ). same parse as arms war (パース赤、戦士と同じ). Bring shame to guild (ギルドの恥). M+ instant decline. (招待拒否). I stand in city like NPC.
vale pine
yet, it truns out, lol is a lot more than 4 buttons.
fading saffron
Dang, only equaled out to a .8% increase? sounds like i dont need to recraft my gear then 
grizzled gust
If Rogue got Soulthirst Venom from Valeera instead of Atrophic Poison would that be broken?
manic salmon
what is so interessting in pressing 4 buttons
there is 1 button that guys absolutely love getting pressed
dusky yacht
Two pendulum fml
vale pine
Means a big question in any discussion about "what do people like about x/y"
is the willingness of the person asking to dive deeper into the discussion
iron whale
hi guys i hope you have a lovely day on the bench today
wdym on the bench 🙁
vale pine
tho, i would argue someone asking such questions is typically not interessted in that
west tide
hello my friends one day we will be buffed
shrewd lantern
paladins is bench pov
vale pine
it is
compact spindle
i too got put on sub rogue duty for my guild and i think im slowly coming to realization to waht im actually going to be doing
shrewd lantern
as soon we kill dragons on reset im hearthing and getting out my chair
make a comfy drink
west tide
whats the total
manic salmon
20
grizzled gust
There's no way atrophic poison is that good
west tide
i see
manic salmon
i was out on pallies & alleria
west tide
im sittin myself on pallies and alleria too
manic salmon
they brought in 260 hunter a week ago and he was doing 200k sustained
i was doing 140
and i was like
west tide
then cone close it out on belo and lura
iron whale
yet, it truns out, lol is a lot more than 4 buttons.
thank god I can soloQ better than I can play sub rog 😔
manic salmon
SURELY
manic salmon
theres something im doing wrong
compact spindle
140k good damage for rogue !
manic salmon
nah
iron whale
is that Mike Wazozski
stuck arrow
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
shrewd lantern
Yeah im basically out for another healer
west tide
we are 5 healing it
shrewd lantern
vale pine
thank god I can soloQ better than I can play sub rog 😔
I haven't played in a while
manic salmon
GLHF
vale pine
can i get lane nidalee back
shrewd lantern
our warlocks are malding in voice
vale pine
would install lol again
iron whale
I haven't played in a while
who's your main? genuinely curious lol
manic salmon
this nidalee is so tanky dude
vale pine
jungle feels like torture to play
manic salmon
about their shit rng going on the pacify guy
ya
vale pine
who's your main? genuinely curious lol
i was the highest rated nidalee otp in one of the earlier seasons
manic salmon
now ur the sexiest sub rogue
stuck arrow
@vale pine your sheet include the sin buffs yet?
Is sin the play for raid prog now?
manic salmon
how does it feel
keen dome
I'm gonna buff sub rogue
iron whale
jungle feels like torture to play
used to be a toplane player since s3 but toplane is definitely the morep sychopath role
I love jungling way more
manic salmon
TOPLANE
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> your sheet include the sin buffs yet?
Is sin the play fo...
nope, i will re-run sims with reset when we get the spell data
iron whale
i was the highest rated nidalee otp in one of the earlier seasons
Nidalee certailny isn't a champ I'd attribute to a sub rogue player 😮
vale pine
i played her in all roles
manic salmon
🧦
vale pine
also jungle, before it was popular
stuck arrow
Nidalee certailny isn't a champ I'd attribute to a sub rogue player 😮
Why not?
Nidalee is pretty much the Hallmark of what old sub used to be.
iron whale
Why not?
Nidalee is pretty much the Hallmark of what old sub used to be.
ah yes especially the shapeshitfting and the healing part 😆
vale pine
nidalee is kinda like sub rogue in a sense
it has all the super small optimizations, glass cannon
iron whale
it has all the super small optimizations, glass cannon
ooo, in that sense... MMH...
vale pine
even tho riot removed a lot of her skill expression, shes still one of the highest skill celling jungler
stuck arrow
Yeah - big dam if played right - if played wrong useless. Huge skill expression.
Obviously we're a far cry from that now.
I think Nidalee is too though, lol
vale pine
e.g. her skillshot is still one of the narrowest in game, so hitting against a good player is very hard if he knows how to dodge
rare goblet
One question about Single Target . You guys Go Double finisher with you apex Talents Proc or do you shadowstrike again to get another proc and do the Next finisher then ?
tulip light
anyone playing dragons mythic can tell me if its the play to evis or bp on the 2 dragons or if its w/e. all logs i see bp on 2
vale pine
also she can do some rly insane jumps over some walls, hitting them during a competitive match is insane
manic salmon
bp with pp
tulip light
ok thanks guys
manic salmon
love pp
iron whale
if you are not skilled in potent powder
sub rogue player in my League view translates into idk, Pyke or Talon
manic salmon
anybody else
stuck arrow
Nidalee Wall hops feel so good.
And tight execution on AA resets and such feel very similar to old sub.
vale pine
sub rogue player in my League view translates into idk, Pyke or Talon
zed probably
iron whale
zed probably
YES ZED
TRUE AGH Zed, exactly, likely the most indeed
especially the shadow clone fantasy
pastel geyser
have they fixed any of the problems with the league of legends client that have existed since the dawn of that shitty launcher client relationship
stuck arrow
Zed style clones is my ultimate sub rogue rework. Would love it if that got incorporated into sub.
iron whale
also isn't Zed a lot about skill ceiling expression?
iron whale
Zed style clones is my ultimate sub rogue rework. Would love it if that got inco...
I completely agree
shrewd lantern
they could have used kyveza animations
vale pine
shrewd lantern
instead of this goober shadow clone shit
iron whale
just don't play jungle
WHY NOT
hushed roost
need shadow clone tank dattebayo
iron whale
I am a jungle player and I enjoy it honestly
hushed roost
and shadow clone battle res dattebayo
iron whale
Nidalee is sub rogue comparison was not on my bingo card
exactly !!!
pastel geyser
Zed style clones is my ultimate sub rogue rework. Would love it if that got inco...
i dont think that would translate well into wow. especially after the "the game needs to be easier to play" expansion
iron whale
😆
plush roost
She is the hardest minmax jungler by a metric landslide
shrewd lantern
i dont think that would translate well into wow. especially after the "the game ...
I mean just look at the popularity of ret paladin
vale pine
WHY NOT
its a extremely vollatile role, its super strong but even the best players who hit high challanger ranks now abuse the system to get high ranks due to the volatility
shrewd lantern
easy is popular
vale pine
like i know the rank 1 eu
now abuses duoq shenanigans
which did prior to this season only soloq
and i am not even sure if he did even reach high ranks
iron whale
its a extremely vollatile role, its super strong but even the best players who h...
yeah it's definitely the highest agency role in the game for match outcome
pastel geyser
easy is popular
easy also allows you to focus on other aspects of the game
stuck arrow
i dont think that would translate well into wow. especially after the "the game ...
Idk I think it would. Would be sweet for skill expression in a lot of ways.
Line up CDs with clones, use clones to attack while make is aids, use it for quick movement / executing mechanics, use it to spread AoE maximally.
Would be sick as fuck.
shrewd lantern
easy also allows you to focus on other aspects of the game
I mean no spec in wow is that difficult
pastel geyser
Idk I think it would. Would be sweet for skill expression in a lot of ways.
Lin...
they dont want that kind of skill expression anymore. and honestly i agree with it
vale pine
you can fall behind very easy too, and there is very little you can do to comeback then
shrewd lantern
most specs if you play long enough you can do effortlessly
vale pine
and in soloq, you can't carry a high portion of your games like that
unlike in the last few seasons
shrewd lantern
i could play sl dust outlaw on autopilot
vale pine
you basically could carry your team easy if you played exceptional
stuck arrow
they dont want that kind of skill expression anymore. and honestly i agree with ...
Idk I think they should. I think it's a mistake to not have that kind of thing in the game.
I do think it's a mistake too to not have any easy specs in the game - but there should be some specs that there's just a little something extra.
shrewd lantern
after you play long enough you just get into a rhythm
and do whats correct without thinking
vale pine
i am honest, dust isn't exactly that great on outlaw
outlaw does not need an acellerator like dust
shrewd lantern
it was considered trickier than venthyr
since you had to watch the cd on 4-5 very short cd abilities
quaint lodge
walked into sub rogue chat to see nidalee being compared to sub rogue
pastel geyser
Idk I think they should. I think it's a mistake to not have that kind of thing i...
the only way it works is if sub never becomes meta. otherwise people feel forced to play it and the void between top players and mid players is too high
quaint lodge
did not expect to see that one
quaint lodge
all 3 specs of rogue are the simple spec this season
rare goblet
One question about Single Target . You guys Go Double finisher with you apex Talents Proc or do you shadowstrike again to get another proc and do the Next finisher then ?
vale pine
walked into sub rogue chat to see nidalee being compared to sub rogue
to be fair, someone just asked what i mained when i played more actively a few years back
keen dome
instead of this goober shadow clone shit
I was about to go "BUT THEY'RE COOL then I saw the previous post and yeah give us kyveza"
hazy breach
One question about Single Target . You guys Go Double finisher with you apex Tal...
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
shrewd lantern
outlaw probably still punishes you the hardest
quaint lodge
to be fair, someone just asked what i mained when i played more actively a few y...
fuu = nidalee main
stuck arrow
the only way it works is if sub never becomes meta. otherwise people feel forced...
I mean I think you just have it be only marginally better than sin at it's apex.
Say 5%.
Ideally you get a split like in WoD or Cata where Sub is clearly the best - but it's considered hard so not that many people play.
shrewd lantern
for fucking up though
quaint lodge
that tracks lowkey
shrewd lantern
yet the brainlets would say outlaw is just sinister spam
pastel geyser
I mean I think you just have it be only marginally better than sin at it's apex....
5% isnt marginal in wow. its actually a lot
tidal salmon
the only way it works is if sub never becomes meta. otherwise people feel forced...
Omg hi vontrev
quaint lodge
nidalee top is strong these days
pastel geyser
Omg hi vontrev
is that my friend spyropulse
quaint lodge
every few months it shows up in my solo queue games
vale pine
yet the brainlets would say outlaw is just sinister spam
outlaw is atm probably the rogue spec with the highest depth in terms of gameplay
shrewd lantern
Yeah
tidal salmon
is that my friend spyropulse
I'm playing subtlety now because my group wants me to in raid
quaint lodge
are there really that many bugs
pastel geyser
<:garf:1320173032743899157> I'm playing subtlety now because my group wants me t...
enjoy being miserable with the rest of us
vale pine
would not say bugs
quaint lodge
the only one ive noticed is ancient arts and sec tec interactions
vale pine
but rather some design decisions
stuck arrow
5% isnt marginal in wow. its actually a lot
It's absolutely a lot.
But yes specs existed for a long time that were ~5% better that didn't get played.
Hell look at the current RWF - arcane is better on the fight by easily 5% but fired up is playing frost.
tidal salmon
enjoy being miserable with the rest of us
We play rogue, that's the same in every spec; at least we aren't outlaw
quaint lodge
not really a bug, just the game updating slow
ripe ravine
isnt guidon just it doesnt give haste until the flag hits the ground?
stuck arrow
It's the snapshot taking time
hazy breach
Its deepening shadows
vale pine
the haste application is instant but deepening updates in a set intervall, can be (up to) 1 sec delay due to that
pastel geyser
We play rogue, that's the same in every spec; at least we aren't outlaw
remember when the reworked roll the bones because no iteration of roll the bones has ever been fun. but they still have not just removed it out right yet
shrewd lantern
rtb is literally fine
ripe ravine
damn i horribly misunderstood that
shrewd lantern
90% of people who complain about rtb never played outlaw
vale osprey
isnt guidon just it doesnt give haste until the flag hits the ground?
We're so lucky we're in the rogue discord if you said something like this in the monk discord you'd be flamed to absolute shit
shrewd lantern
for more than a week
tidal salmon
remember when the reworked roll the bones because no iteration of roll the bones...
I remember just like that farm cookie commercial
vale osprey
But we have kind gamers that answer questions here
pastel geyser
for more than a week
when stockholm syndrome kicks in
keen dome
rtb is literally fine
Disagree. It doesn't have a follow-up move where I can kick the dice at the enemies for damage.
shrewd lantern
when stockholm syndrome kicks in
Have you ever played outlaw for a tier
keen dome
That would make it fine
ripe ravine
luckily its just one of those misunderstandings thats pretty trivial, sinve i still played around the whole thiung in the normal way
pastel geyser
Have you ever played outlaw for a tier
2 tiers
shrewd lantern
its far from the real issue of the spec
since SL
Kind of like how most people who complained about crackshot
never played the spec serious
shrewd lantern
when stockholm syndrome kicks in
also this is basically anyone who says they had fun playing sepulcher sub
with a straight face
stuck arrow
But we have kind gamers that answer questions here
Rogue discord is the best TBH. The TCs & top level players create a great environment and also just drop knowledge bombs.
Lots of discords either hyper casual or are basically elitist jerk style feelycrafters.
Rogue his a real nice mid point and has the best TCs imo. It's crazy how many specs and classes don't even try to make sims match reality.
shrewd lantern
wdym you dont like 80% dance uptime
vale osprey
Rogue discord is the best TBH. The TCs & top level players create a great enviro...
Absolutely true
manic salmon
rogue discord is the best
vale pine
also this is basically anyone who says they had fun playing sepulcher sub
every iteration of a spec will have people who love and people who hate it
manic salmon
so many femboys here
pastel geyser
also this is basically anyone who says they had fun playing sepulcher sub
i couldnt play SL after i finished CN, that expac was terrible
vale pine
if anything, the current, very easy version
vale osprey
Part of why I don't roll off the class is genuinely the discord
vale pine
is probably more popular than other more complicated ones
even tho it would need a bit of the DK tuning boost
^^
shrewd lantern
i couldnt play SL after i finished CN, that expac was terrible
yeah so you only really played finisher rtb
tidal salmon
if anything, the current, very easy version
Just remember there's someone out there where current rogue will remain their favorite iteration of the class
shrewd lantern
which had a comical number of issues
pastel geyser
yeah so you only really played finisher rtb
i played DF outlaw in S1
jade oasis
is probably more popular than other more complicated ones
im just happy flag is gone
vale pine
Just remember there's someone out there where current rogue will remain their fa...
i mean, i don't think we will go back to the pre midnight iteration
shrewd lantern
every iteration of a spec will have people who love and people who hate it
i've never seen anyone enjoy kyrian sepulcher build
pastel geyser
but sub in DF s1 was more fun by a mile
jade oasis
to me it felt like the most nothingburger button oat
vale pine
i've never seen anyone enjoy kyrian sepulcher build
oh we had people absolutely love it
shrewd lantern
sub in df s1 was basically sepulcher
vale pine
send everything on cd
shrewd lantern
so snoozefest
stuck arrow
im just happy flag is gone
Meanwhile... I'd love flag on this current sub iteration.
Feels like there's no room to optimize.
shrewd lantern
then df s2 came and you didnt even gear mastery
pastel geyser
im just happy flag is gone
you dont like having a cooldown to press before the cooldown you press before pressing another cooldown?
shrewd lantern
because your spec was braindead strike spam
flag was alright when it did damage itself
when they removed that part
its just.....why?
rupture was kind of bloat too
in the sense they removed sanguinary vein
so it was just a random finisher that did more over time than spending the points on an evis
shrewd lantern
ig amirdrassil sub with the shadow rupture tier
had some funny gaming with ashes
but holy hell df s1/2 sub deserves to burn
in a dumpster fire
there's a reason i still played outlaw on every other boss in voti
also, cto made you basically have multiple buffs at all times
shrewd lantern
it just felt pointless to be on its own cd when it didnt do damage
but the damage was due to the conduit
I still miss manual bonespike for 2/3 specs
it just never made sense on sub
vale pine
i mean, everything removed was seen as pointless
shrewd lantern
i actually liked ER
vale pine
yet, somehow, with only redundant things removed
shrewd lantern
minus stech being rng
vale pine
(i am joking, i know why, but people kept telling me "nothing changed")
shrewd lantern
or brick alignment
keen dome
Someday they'll make SecTec a single damage ability and not the.. spaghetti it is
vale pine
any issue is solvable
vale pine
its just about how much time you can put into a problem space
shrewd lantern
though i wouldnt mind if dance was back
to 1min cd 10s duration
personally
sub not being a burst spec feels wrong
dusky yacht
And AA
shrewd lantern
kind of like how they took outlaw's old passives
vale pine
it feels bad
shrewd lantern
It just feels restrictive
since this spec is just souping up sectechs
and nothing else
pastel geyser
when wasnt that the case
pastel geyser
make sec tech a choice node with DFA for higher ST
vale pine
so, similar to how shots in the dark works
pastel geyser
swift tinsel
I still want sectech to funnel
dusky yacht
Hold up fuu is cooking
shrewd lantern
wouldnt work since dfa build worked around stacking 4-5 damage amps
vale pine
I still want sectech to funnel
think an effect similar to the sylvanas dagger would work
if we want some amount of funnel
swift tinsel
think an effect similar to the sylvanas dagger would work
still hoping beyond hope that dark brew becomes banshee's blight
shrewd lantern
nah goremaw
pastel geyser
we could get funnel if they made deathstalker not a pile of garbage
swift tinsel
I mean they can always just remove goremaws instead of reworking it into something that isn't remotely close to goremaws
vale pine
deathstalker gets changes in .5
so its not like
that bad anymore
(its not even bad, just annoying)
pastel geyser
annoying is bad as far as im concerned honestly
dusky yacht
Man am I the only rogue happy with sub, feels good being a returning player who doesn’t know what he missing
undone ridge
whats up with crafting a MH dagger for myth crests, good or not so good?
pastel geyser
deathstalker just feels last minute on sub
im not confident it was even designed for Sin since it barely worked on Sin and was just numerically what we always played
keen dome
whats up with crafting a MH dagger for myth crests, good or not so good?
If you can't get a Myth dagger any other way and don't have one, it's good to craft with Myth crests. It becomes your OH once you get a Myth MH dagger from vault / raid.
shrewd lantern
ds assa was literally fine
pastel geyser
i had a lot of fun when mark would fall off and i didnt have vanish
shrewd lantern
when vanish wasnt a dps cd
pastel geyser
vanish was an iron wire cd
pastel geyser
everyone. that shit was so good
pastel geyser
i brought it for specific dungeons because the silence was really useful on certain packs
shrewd lantern
yeah thats why it was worth in s1
since the dps loss was neglible
it was too strong for its s1 placement
especially when they made subterfuge a 12s buff
jade oasis
im not confident it was even designed for Sin since it barely worked on Sin and ...
wasnt it bugged for like half of last season
pastel geyser
wasnt it bugged for like half of last season
it was bugged in the whole expansion
jade oasis
xd
shrewd lantern
nah they specificaly fucked singular in s3
pastel geyser
your mark would just disappear sometimes
shrewd lantern
to not work with spatter
pastel geyser
yeah then they broke funnel
pastel geyser
or if the boss had a phase
shrewd lantern
well yeah
pastel geyser
which a lot of bosses had
pastel geyser
but it would absolutely disappear in packs
shrewd lantern
It did not just "randomly" disappear
pastel geyser
this was a probably we complained about in the sin channel all the time
shrewd lantern
i mean i played sin all of s1/2 and never had mark "randomly" disappear
forgetting which mob you had it on is different
swift tinsel
gotta add the soul swap inhale for mark
if they're dead-set on it being ass to spread otherwise
shrewd lantern
Yeah
swift tinsel
so you can pocket it if you need to while boss disappears
shrewd lantern
i found mark annoying but this "random" disappearance for the most part is people forget which mob it was on
then it just expired
swift tinsel
"in the off chance"
shrewd lantern
focus kick macro
if something i wasnt assigned to kick kills the other chud
not my fault
play better bozo
dusky yacht
Kick and stun everything, make the aoe ccers eyes go wide and their mouths open, retreat late in the evening to bed with good woman, experience pure satisfaction and karmic balance
shrewd lantern
using cheap unironically is like
the fastest way to spot rogue alts
no mains press that shit outside pvp
shrewd lantern
tbf its mostly to cover other people not pressing their kicks
and if they die thats on them
dusky yacht
Yes that’s what carrying is and what playing better means
Only person who is losing is you, you’re throwing water into the boat you’re in and pretending it’s superiority
swift tinsel
crazy thing is other peoples kicks aren't always targeted at them
shrewd lantern
the person who misses their kick usually is doing terrible damage
so no real loss if they die
swift tinsel
shrewd lantern
swift tinsel
perfectly healthy perspective
dusky yacht
shrewd lantern
ill stun something if its on me though
then flame them in chat after
for missing
swift tinsel
keen dome
I did a PoS earlier and the Warlock was sitting max range and constantly got grabbed by the bat. How many times do you save him before you join the bats team
rain stratus
@vale pine Do you only delay 2nd dance during lust, or is that always the case?
dusky yacht
Right enough cringes for tonight I’mma go lay down
keen dome
Is it impoite to run over, on the fifth time, and just stand there with /sigh.
dusky yacht
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> Do you only delay 2nd dance during lust, or is that always...
you can, but don't need to
shrewd lantern
He also had a smoth larry incident
my favorite is take out a toy
and do a /pulse emote
on people that die to stupid
or you just spam ping their body
for quick access
upbeat sorrel
is 731 haste with weapon oils too much
dusky yacht
Sociopathy and megalomania makes you such a bad ass bro goddamn when I grow up I wanna be just like you
keen dome
upbeat sorrel
should i shift some gems/enchants
keen dome
I love the smooth larry incident
shrewd lantern
https://imgur.com/E9ZsiA8
LMFAO
this is so great
thing is that guy is actually a good player too
keen dome
But his pet did precisely this in PoS
fluid lintel
should i shift some gems/enchants
Sim it
shrewd lantern
keen dome
thing is that guy is actually a good player too
The imp is smooth larry to me
he was off on an adventure
shrewd lantern
i had an rdruid in xenas
keen dome
He went to fetch more count
shrewd lantern
spend like a min figuring out how to cross one of those stun wires
never crossed his mind to go around
vale osprey
should i shift some gems/enchants
If you're gemming and enchanting haste, then yes
keen dome
spend like a min figuring out how to cross one of those stun wires
lmao
I just turn those off now
it saves time
upbeat sorrel
If you're gemming and enchanting haste, then yes
so we want like 650-700 haste with oil?
shrewd lantern
m+ers are truly some of the most dented
vale osprey
so we want like 650-700 haste with oil?
684+, try for 700
But the simplified version is yes, 650-700ih
upbeat sorrel
gotcha im right around there
wintry blaze
Hi, one question, how do i play council fights like Lightblinded Vanguard as Rogue? Do I use a BP focused build there?
vale pine
yes you use bp focused builds
shrewd lantern
bp and pretend you're useful
vale pine
at least potent power
hazy breach
Be supportive of your teammates that do the damage
shrewd lantern
as you compete with the tanks for last
hazy breach
vale pine
you will suck on the fight
wintry blaze
So i just ignore damage and spam my /cheer macro on actual DPS?
shrewd lantern
well you need to do damage to apply atrophic
vale osprey
you will suck on the fight
Is it straight up an assa angle? We prog/kill it tomorrow
shrewd lantern
so play
vale osprey
Am I just trolling as sub
vale osprey
you're trolling as rogue
I 👏 won't 👏 hear 👏 this 👏 slander
vale pine
Is it straight up an assa angle? We prog/kill it tomorrow
the fight isn't specifically good for any rogue
its bench angle
vale osprey
the fight isn't specifically good for any rogue
Refer to my above message Fuu
upbeat sorrel
reroll hunter angle
vale pine
but its also not tuned in a way that matters, so play what you want
swift tinsel
do no damage, ninja loot ring
wintry blaze
Is it straight up an assa angle? We prog/kill it tomorrow
i have a purple log with like 90k dps, that should tell you all you need to know 😄
vale osprey
do no damage, ninja loot ring
Over my cute lil void set!!!??.
swift tinsel
hey I didn't say equip it
vale osprey
Probably play assa ye
Fucks up my all stars tho....
hazy breach
Then dont
vale osprey
God bless it has been answered
shrewd lantern
xenas rings beter
tbf
either way sin or sub is yapping do you want to do 140 or 145k
meanwhile the ranged doing over 200
dusky yacht
Go play ranged
tepid coral
!MACRO
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like 
WoWhead or 
Icy Veins.
rain stratus
you can, but don't need to
Let me rephrase, is it always a damage increase to do so, or only inside lust? 🙂
hazy breach
!guidon
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
serene notch
Now that everyone has had time on the new expac, how’s everyone feeling about the button trim?
fossil forge
outer quartz
crimson thorn
With these stats, should i use mastery flask or crit flask?
vale osprey
does anyone know why in p4 rogue is pumping?
Huge damage amp
graceful rock
do we think sec tech is double dipping in p3 lura?
theres no amp
its just shared health
my guess is sec tech technically hits both Luras so the clones spawn twive
abstract oar
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.
rigid delta
hi, whats the best way to use the Algethar box? cant find much info on it, thought i'd ask here
crimson thorn
hi, whats the best way to use the Algethar box? cant find much info on it, thoug...
The last pinned message will answer your question
rigid delta
Ahh thanks!
lofty bluff
Basic questions guys; in the wowhead guide for secondary stat distribution suggestions it shows an about equal allocation for crit and mastery in single target. I'm confused whether it refers to % or actual rating though. Does it suggest I aim for 30% - 30% crit/mast or is it suggesting that I aim for like 900 rating of each (hypothetical)?
Because sub has naturally high Mastery % without much rating.
vale osprey
Basic questions guys; in the wowhead guide for secondary stat distribution sugge...
The latter, stats scale at different rates
gleaming crane
what are we crafting after dagger and wrists ?
hazy breach
Whatever sims the highest
swift tinsel
haste edging achieved
stuck arrow
haste edging achieved
I'm sitting like 670, seems like I'm not missing gcds in dance.
Living on the edge. 😂
valid yoke
is puzzlebox better than guidon for raid now?
graceful crown
idk the out timing of the 2min trinket sucks a lot
dry flame
i don't know in practice, but my 289 puzzlebox think sims higher, and on pure ST, guidon was like 0.3% better
graceful crown
btw 670 is not counting buffs, weapon oils and all that?
dry flame
idk the out timing of the 2min trinket sucks a lot
treated like a 3 min cd
graceful crown
guidon is in every burst windows so idk
the extra sectec buffed on shadowblades is cool
stuck arrow
btw 670 is not counting buffs, weapon oils and all that?
670 is counting that for me.
But.
Idk.
I do have a pretty rock solid connection and I did still miss some gcds. Call it 10-15%.
graceful crown
it happens to me too idk
stuck arrow
My gear just scuffed hard to get all the way to 700 with my drops.
Might farm out m+ for some haste pieces, not sure.
Or do the opposite and then use haste flask.
graceful crown
yep
stuck arrow
But I don't want to use haste flask and be at line 850 haste lol
dry flame
is there a bis list somehwere?
stuck arrow
is there a bis list somehwere?
There's one on Fuu's sheet. But BiS only bis for most stuff if you've got the other bis gear.
Sin yourself.
shrewd lantern
those are the two best necks at mythic just because they have extras on top of being a base neck
extra gem or free damage proc
graceful crown
oh it felt good with a little more lag tolerance
stuck arrow
Yeah 700 the sweet spot for a reason.
I'm just living on the edge lol
lean sigil
noticed top players in m+ are doing a spec that is not fuus m+ version, most seem to take Finality and drop veiltouched?
sims worse for me, just want to educate why they switch
stuck arrow
Depends on your gear. Higher crit makes finality better.
undone ridge
Depends on your gear. Higher crit makes finality better.
u got 2 ranks in finality
or only 1
asking for m+
stuck arrow
Been using one personally. Haven't simmed in a minute.
Do whatever Dslice says is better for you.
undone ridge
bet
lean sigil
veil
radiant swift
is it for the non guidon players also tight fitting 2 sectecs into blades window with lust ?>
despite 700 haste
shrewd lantern
yeah
lilac stag
and it won’t sim well
shrewd lantern
people just feelycrafting tbh
the actual diff is probably minor
of the finality point
lilac stag
Nah it’s just the way dslice works
shrewd lantern
yeah no i wont ever drop tfd personally
lilac stag
better off dropping wm
lilac stag
TFD biggest headache is not tracking it.
dry flame
So, with 289 puzzlebox, guidon is +0.5% better on pure ST and -2% on dungeon slice (for me)
lilac stag
Take droptimizer with a grain of salt. Welcome to haste breakpoints
weak vector
pretty torn on these. sim says bracers give 1.3% increase, but I feel like taking a myth track BIS ring is the move, no? It would put my haste down to 16% from 19% however, so I'd have to find a clever way to get back to 18%
shrewd lantern
its not bis considering it isnt a xenas ring
dry flame
Take droptimizer with a grain of salt. Welcome to haste breakpoints
aye, im at 780 haste atm, so i understand its gonna undervalue it
frail path
~~I have a version ready that works, just uploaded for review at Curseforge. It's a simple text counting down until the buff is ready, then goes away. Should be available here as soon as it's approved: https://legacy.curseforge.com/wow/addons/the-first-dance-tracker
Disclaimer: pure AI code. I am not a programmer.~~
Only works in open world/follower dungeons. The spell is absolutely and completely unavailable to track for some reason no one but Blizzard knows...
lilac stag
~~I have a version ready that works, just uploaded for review at Curseforge. It'...
What’s the buff id?
weak vector
its not bis considering it isnt a xenas ring
I wasn't aware the xenas rings were that good
lilac stag
I was trying to sort that out but a quick 4 mins of google searching didn’t yielded anything
lilac stag
I wasn't aware the xenas rings were *that* good
They’re not, it’s just a little free dmg
frail path
470678/470677
swift tinsel
they're good rings, not amazing
lilac stag
470678/470677
I’ll have to try 77. I was trying 78 in arc and it wasn’t picking it up
weak vector
hm, I'll just go for the bracers then and upgrade to 276
shrewd lantern
bracers are mainstat which is nice
lilac stag
Well the ring is a crest saver
frail path
The countdown is one, and the actual buff the other
shrewd lantern
maybe mastery ring is better for keys
swift tinsel
also depends on how much haste you have
shrewd lantern
yah
weak vector
699 haste unbuffed
shrewd lantern
but its not like the xenas rings are badly statted
weak vector
id lose 150 from taking the ring
shrewd lantern
you lose some mastery for crit
lilac stag
Clearly socket angle
swift tinsel
^
lilac stag
a nice feral traded me heroic pants to replace my champ ones. Just need heroic gloves to save crests on my mythic gloves.
swift tinsel
I'm perma-blocked from getting gloves
still have the same champ ones from week 1 of the season
lilac stag
I'm perma-blocked from getting gloves
Rank 9 delver with your army of alts hahah
Get the heroic vendor
swift tinsel
ye I'm grinding the last few levels
did a bunch of alt leveling over the weekend with TW and calamitous
lilac stag
I’m almost to the point of only doing weekly keys
swift tinsel
pretty sure the vendor is rng loot though even at hero
lilac stag
The promise land
lilac stag
I ain’t farming no fucking rings for a proc
swift tinsel
nopers
fuck that
plus I'm just gonna get myth ones from vault anyways
not gonna farm for a hero ring
lilac stag
swift tinsel
my stats are decent and I'm right at the haste mark
shrewd lantern
I'm perma-blocked from getting gloves
first aa that got gloves
i got warbound ones
epicly trolled
swift tinsel
I've been swimming in belts and bracers all season
swift tinsel
I just haven't sent myth crests on anything after crafting dagger day 1 lol
no 2nd/3rd crafts
and haven't been able to take myth vault yet
could have gotten myth gloves but hero guidon appeared and one didn't drop from raid
and we don't do mythic til next week
swift tinsel
same
shrewd lantern
spare oar
whats the ! for sec teq in blades?
shrewd lantern
me when i see a purple drop
swift tinsel
I'm never getting it from raid
shrewd lantern
and its just a shitty housing item
swift tinsel
so its all vault luck on that one
dude I'm annoyed by how much decor they throw in my bags
I haven't been in my house in like two months
golden totem
whats the ! for sec teq in blades?
sour valve
Guys you start the fight with Shadowstrike or Backstab?
fallow nimbus
cursive vapor
Guys you start the fight with Shadowstrike or Backstab?
Ye since you always wanna start in stealth its strike
rare goblet
**Apex talent optimization**:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Ye...
So for my understanding its all inside shadow dance eight, if im outside idc about sec tec ?
swift tinsel
Yep since you never Sectech outside dance
rare goblet
I mean if i got 5 Stacks Outside of Dance I use Backstube at Full points or just finisher
Stab*
swift tinsel
It would be quite rare to get five stacks outside dance but you only ever play around forcing a proc in dance
Unless you’re prepping for your next dance
tranquil sorrel
Should I min max Ancient Arts on AoE? And what does opener look like? Do I Shadowstrike then AA till 5 stacks before big dam or do I just pop big dam??
rare goblet
And One last question if im still in shadow Blades and Sec tech comes up last 2 seconds of blades I still dont use it Witzhout dance eight ?
swift tinsel
You should have dance for last part of blades
rare goblet
Kk ty
swift tinsel
With 4pc you can align with last part of blades instead of dancing back to back immediately
rare goblet
Ah so I just wait for Sec tech and then Go 2nd Dance got it
swift tinsel
You aren’t necessarily waiting for Sectech to be off cd
rare goblet
Just to Align I mean
hazy breach
Ah so I just wait for Sec tech and then Go 2nd Dance got it
No
use dance when blades has 9 seconds left
rare goblet
So that it fits in 2 nd shadow Dance Windows
tranquil sorrel
Should I min max Ancient Arts on AoE? And what does opener look like? Do I Shado...
bump
rare goblet
Ty for helping
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
hazy breach
Or storm if its on big aoe
tranquil sorrel
isnt it better to backstab ?
tranquil sorrel
so i dont waste a global in dance
swift tinsel
Lame
tranquil sorrel
!aa
I knew this, I was more asking for opener, should I wait until I pop blades or no
and in M+ idk if its always worth to optimize Anciant arts
swift tinsel
I always force on coup for vibes
In keys
I’m also a long coup holder though
Anything to feel something on this class
vast dust
Haven’t tried for fear of going into the abyss behind boss but can you shadowstep during Voracious fight during his Primordial Roar knockback to get right back into DPS?
swift tinsel
Idk how much longer guild keys and voice chat can sustain me lol
swift tinsel
Haven’t tried for fear of going into the abyss behind boss but can you shadowste...
Step someone in melee a split second after the cast
If you’re worried
Would assume you don’t step into the abyss though haven’t checked
Can always do it to find out and make a memory if you die
vast dust
Ya, I don’t want to exit the raid via disappearing into the yonder as I wave goodbye lol
odd sage
Bit baffled with my vault choices, is it worth taking a trinket which is biggest dmg increase atm if i have been unlucky with them. or is myth gear always prio here?
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/draenor/mattiseppo/
dry flame
i'd run a quick Dreamrift HC first, see if u get Gaze
odd sage
Already did all and missed so will probably just pick LCG
and yeah, the ring was definitely calling me a little bit
west tide
id neva pick the ring there ..
odd sage
fair enough, I didnt have star band when I opened
dry flame
Already did all and missed so will probably just pick LCG
keep in mind gaze is giga for all 3 specs
guidon is not
swift tinsel
gaze is also one of the most contested piece of loot in the game atm
dry flame
i had in my mythic imperator pug Guidon drop and a havoc DH yoinked it and left the raid
its not even good for them
for context, DH trinket tier list:
odd sage
Yeah maybe its a gaze and farm puzzle box angle after all 🤔
is gaze better than plume on all specs?
dry flame
all specs? idk
all rogue specs, yes
odd sage
i had in my mythic imperator pug Guidon drop and a havoc DH yoinked it and left ...
Lost mine to unholy dk, atleast it wen to good use
lean sigil
Is it ok to Marco shadow blades to lights g?
cloud finch
I'm having trouble with the 1 button rotation. I'd like to learn how to play rogue but it keeps applying different poisons on my weapons as part of my rotation depending on if I'm fighting an NPC or a player. Anyone know what to do?
graceful crown
i didnt do this yesterday
i didnt know xD
at 3 mini bosses of alleria
i had like a 1M crit, that was satisfying
gilded ferry
clean as fuck
fleet acorn
Ggs no rogue
graceful crown
buf boh alleria is hard with sub
fleet acorn
How is rogue dmg so back
graceful crown
so much timing u can lose all the time
fleet acorn
We will Never See the Boss Not Even top 8
graceful crown
yeah... i suppose not
stuck tulip
can we now see nerfs on dks locks and devos?
dense geode
What dont they do 
dry flame
I'm having trouble with the 1 button rotation. I'd like to learn how to play rog...
If you are trying to learn rogue, I'd advice against getting used to the one button rotation. You can check basics in #subtlety-faq
eternal willow
is there nowere to see bis gear?
eternal willow
im crafting my weapon and idk what stats to put on
eternal willow
i have 645 haste rn
tame terrace
do the wcl charts also ignore akarris soul
chrome palm
exile mogged the entire raid, holy you love to see it
tame terrace
pepw
west tide
exile mogged the entire raid, holy you love to see it
what’s that lmao
west tide
lmfsooooooo
spice matrix
tulip folio
im rerroling
gilded ferry
Akarri had to be double dipping right?
thats the theory
@plush roost can you see total dam?
graceful rock
Akarri had to be double dipping right?
100%
void ocean
we gonna get nerfed
versed sun
hollow spear
I didn't count the pixels, but the blue Akaari bar doesn't look ilegally large
vagrant sinew
i still think ass rogue has to own in that p3
exile said he was thinking about playing it but boss isnt below 35% on lust
gilded ferry
was anyone able to see total dps for the fight?
hollow spear
Sub also gets cds back during P4
vagrant sinew
they were holding cds for p4 depending how good their push was anyways
hazy breach
exile said he was thinking about playing it but boss isnt below 35% on lust
Its probably going to be for most other people
strange chasm
when most people get to it
100% sin will destroy that phase
with lust and the boss being 35%
hollow spear
When most people get to it, assa will have been aura buffed by 10%
lilac stag
15
graceful rock
P3 damage isn’t really “double damage”
finite hedge
it absolutely is double damage
odd jacinth
USA USA
alpine wraith
you know boss has whole hp bar
lilac stag
id laugh my ass off of the entire reason we got no buff was due to secret mythic phase that no more than 60 people are going to see in its current version
graceful rock
It’s double damage but with half the raid
lucid jackal
When most people get to it, assa will have been aura buffed by 10%
They are done with tuning until 0.5 tho
hollow spear
huh
finite hedge
No. everyone does double damage. All damage you deal is replicated for everyone.
lucid jackal
Isn't that what they said
hollow spear
don't think they are
lilac stag
I can’t keep track of what they say at this point
nor do I put much stock in what they talk about doing.
gilded ferry
asked exile if it was double dipping akaari and he does not know
apparently there are some weird calculations in dps p3
neon wave
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
finite hedge
oh damn that is pretty soon yeah
lean rover
I hope we get more invisibility buffs
hollow spear
they better rework the damage out of that spec
plush roost
Idk i think mm has its drawbacks, just an insane tier for it
lilac stag
We’re all playing 
in 22 days
plush roost
Devour however, that spec is truly jesus
hollow spear
wasn't last tier already pretty big for MM?
plush roost
And aug
graceful rock
The DS changes are a nothing burger
gilded ferry
graceful rock
Manaforge? Idk u didnt even play hunter on dimmy
No shot
lilac stag
The DS changes are a nothing burger
Being able to move it when the tree is already ahead isn’t a nothing burger
hollow spear
nerf uhdk
plush roost
No shot
Ya shot people started playing once dark ranger was discovered to be turbo, mm was just the "if i have a good hunter player" spec
hazy breach
New cloud cover is pretty neat
graceful rock
Okay that is true
alpine wraith
yea we can pvp our people in raid
hazy breach
Slightly more burst, we take those
graceful rock
Bc I’m pretty sure yarggi in FSY like climbed from last to 3rd on the dps meters in p3
alpine wraith
maybe next tier we get a giga trink
lilac stag
anybody find our cleave?
hazy breach
I genuinely dont think our cleave being awful is that big of a problem if our big aoe is strong
Its just that this tier had a lot of cleave required AND assa+outlaw doesnt have strong cleave
graceful rock
Yeah the cleave is a class wide issue
graceful rock
Bring back precise cuts
hazy breach
Execute is a niche, but its rarely helpful these days
lilac stag
3 specs 0 niche
excuse me our niche is melee pad if range missed any of it
placid crown
what is the command that tells when to use second dance when we have trinket + 4p ?
hazy breach
!guidon
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
placid crown
ty
hazy breach
In one phase
valid yoke
Okay I need help - sims are telling me I want more crit but I already have like 900 crit and the top rogues are stacking mastery not crit
wtf am I missing here
hollow spear
Unacceptable
gilded ferry
damn guy calm down i did not see the NUMBERS
gilded ferry
that ashine is the one that used to raid in fatsharkyes?
lilac stag
listen bro add the akaaris
Sorry. You were out of range of the person logging.
hazy breach
listen bro add the akaaris
Thats only been a bug since dragonflight, cant expect them to fix it that fast
naive zodiac
this whole class is a bug
never been more frustrating having no strength as a class
every boss first class to be sat
plush roost
Preach
naive zodiac
genuinely was probably correct to play unholy over rogue on this boss too
ivory orchid
lilac stag
clearly the tuning on Tuesday will help the rest of the sub rogues.
plush roost
genuinely was probably correct to play unholy over rogue on this boss too
Okayyy stop preaching
hollow spear
take his mic away
vagrant sinew
Okayyy stop preaching
they were talking about sitting him today but didnt just because of pull count
naive zodiac
ok hope u got the ss