subtlety

[left ledge]

But like even then

[lilac stag]

Done

[tribal blade]

we're now gated by storm CP gen

[short radish]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[left ledge]

Also yeah like scath said

[tepid trellis]

Assa is doing quite good in high keys but will have to wait and see after people are actually geared

[left ledge]

Fix is easy

[tepid trellis]

pretty sure 2 of the specs thats gonna be played is Aug+SP

[tribal blade]

i tried testing sin in +12s, it was miserable lol

[tepid trellis]

unless they gut SP again

[tribal blade]

but the prio is so good

[lilac stag]

the way nimble worked, it shifts away from BP instantly for stronger cleave.

[left ledge]

Warlock is looking quite strong so idk

[lilac stag]

It really isn’t that difficult

[left ledge]

Unholy is looking op too

[little ferry]

Or casualaddict is coping, but judging of the maisara caverns overall he posted and prio damage I can see assa ending up as an A tier spec

[tepid trellis]

warlock single target is too shit

in keys

[tribal blade]

it's too early to call what's meta

[left ledge]

Aug is definitely in

Mage is also op

[lilac stag]

sub soon™ in keys

[tribal blade]

unless they nerf aug yeah

[left ledge]

There are so many op specs

[tepid trellis]

SP is by far the highest dmg in keys

[left ledge]

Just none of them are rogue I fear

[tribal blade]

if SP is OP

[lilac stag]

Every other op spec has utility.

[tribal blade]

then it won't be a rogue season

for sure

[left ledge]

Wym

We will get aoe blind back

[tribal blade]

hahaha

WELL PI is actually not bad for sub now

so who knows

less troll than S2 DF

[lilac stag]

watch them update the tooltip and forget to implement it

[tribal blade]

but nah

better to get a mage

PI the mage, mage gives SP int

aug buffs both

win win win

[left ledge]

Frost Mage damage is actually like

Stupid

[lilac stag]

pi the hunter

[tepid trellis]

its quite shit lol

[left ledge]

And yeah PI for sub doesn’t really do anything

[tribal blade]

oh is it still? depression

OH fucking hell PI is 2 mins

[tepid trellis]

bro if BL is 1.7% dmg

[tribal blade]

i forgot

yeah it's shit

[lilac stag]

idk watching pika get it every two minutes. Hahaha

[tepid trellis]

wtf do you think PI is

[left ledge]

Well

Probably 0.85

[crystal bone]

sure going back to last season's damage profile would be sick but the problem with that is why even have BP at all then

it was just a pad button that i never pressed

in 17's

[left ledge]

To aoe?

BP was still a good aoe button

[lilac stag]

so tired of pad

[left ledge]

Think the word pad gets thrown around too often these days

It’s pad if you don’t need to aoe

If you need to aoe it is not pad

[lilac stag]

It’s aoe. Shit still needs to die. And you tune the numbers

[tribal blade]

isn't the vast majority of aoe in the game "pad"

[left ledge]

No

[tribal blade]

there's not many specs that do very high prio

[lilac stag]

The priority cope is funny still to this day

[left ledge]

To pad is like aoe on sennarth

[lilac stag]

I will give up 10% to everything for 2% to a priority

[left ledge]

Or holding to aoe on dragons

That’s padding

[lilac stag]

or whatever the numbers lined up to

[left ledge]

But when it’s a pull that has 20 fkin mobs

That will destroy your tank soon

It is like the opposite of pad

[crystal bone]

when nimble did giga cleave up to 7 targets, u rarely found a use case for BP

and there was almost always a prio target

[lilac stag]

BP was also shit

[left ledge]

BP got giga buffed later

And became quite good

[lilac stag]

What 3 35% buffs?

[left ledge]

Also sub didn’t really do much prio

Your prio was to shadowstrike… but that’s also how you procced escalating

[lilac stag]

the prio was double coup

[left ledge]

Which also did more aoe

Our cleave rn is just like

So ass it is insane

I don’t know what came over them to essentially make the gimmick of trickster so fucking useless

[lilac stag]

they saw outlaw and copied it

2x useless things for one class

[left ledge]

Also to be fair

Rupture and old RS helped a LOT with cleave

[sage hollow]

signet

[left ledge]

A fight like paladins would’ve been helped quite a bit by rupture

[lilac stag]

rather BP than rupture. ✅

[left ledge]

Not saying I want rupture back

But compensation maybe

We just did not get compensation for it being removed

[lilac stag]

Not nerfing our cleave by what 25%

[left ledge]

They treated it like it was a useless button

[lilac stag]

would be a good step

[left ledge]

Oh well

[gilded ferry]

i might be having a dumb opinion here but

i think they want each spec to have their niche, but, they never seem to get there. so i would prefer if they tried to make at least 1 spec good each tier

[left ledge]

Yeah we just aren’t great anything

[vocal torrent]

how would you feel about 3 mostly bad specs instead

https://tenor.com/view/trade-offer-dungeons-and-fakultet-gif-24324825

[gilded ferry]

it makes sense to me that ret pallys are good, because well, its one spec of dps. it should be good

[left ledge]

Also the niche thing is kinda false since DF

[gilded ferry]

but we have 3 and they are all shit

[vocal torrent]

who remembers hybrid tax

[gilded ferry]

this is all because rogue is the least played class of the game

why bother

lmao

[left ledge]

Rogue has been the least player

Played*

for a very long time

I think it is consistently the least played every expac

[crystal bone]

i tell u what

more ppl will play rogue if u give them a raid buff that actually works

[gilded ferry]

thats fotm

[void hound]

a tale as old as time

[lilac stag]

They have this. All three are tuned to shit.

this is the most “clearly defined” the three specs have been in some time. Just they all flat out are trash in a raid that isn’t exactly melee friendly and rogue tuning is quite low.

also raid buff not a defensive no one gives a shit about

[gilded ferry]

its sad that melee players are way more common than ranged players

being a warlock main must be a fuckton cool

or a mage

[lilac stag]

warlocks all hate themselves

Or destro

Not sure which one this tier

[gilded ferry]

so do we, but we do it from the bottom

whats the difference

[lilac stag]

nah we hate blizzards lack of real attention

[void hound]

its the same story almost every tier, rogues are wow's battered housewives

[red flame]

its like they think Rogues are only NPC's like Valeera or the animated "coming home" thing they did & that they're not an actual playable class a player can choose

cant balance or tune whats not in the forethought

[keen dome]

the coming home trailer was so good

I want that rogue

[red flame]

true & real

[void hound]

the raid looks fun but i want to play none of the classes

[red flame]

at least they picked rogue & made it look cool

[keen dome]

Someone at Blizz likes us

[red flame]

the DH class designer

🙁

[keen dome]

the rogue love in that trailer was wild, it had so many little things

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-meme-kitchen-miss-you-miss-u-gif-26069082

[crystal bone]

Realz

the only one

[keen dome]

I don't think Realz was on the animation team

Although if he was then damn he's multitalented

[crystal bone]

[exotic steeple]

watching echo rn they basically cooked weakauras

and i need to download 3 addons for basic ui

[hazy breach]

Yeah nothing changed except its more annoying compared to before

[exotic steeple]

99% wont have access to those

really weird situation

[hazy breach]

Exactly as expected

[tribal blade]

i imagine they might release it when the RWF is over

[hazy breach]

Has echo had any p4 pulls today

[tribal blade]

yes 1 i saw

they died 1 by 1 in P4 till it was only meeres left alive

sounds like they had a low dmg P3 just now

but they had 1-2 people dead most of that phase

[vast dust]

The state of Rogues and the lack of them everywhere is wild to me having come back in January after being away since 2004 launch - 2008 taking my leave. Always mained a Rogue but we used to be EVERYWHERE. Now I barely ever see them in the cities. We’re like a rare sighting now. It’s wild.

[round patrol]

Hey guys, after recent buffs which spec do you think is the go to for high m+

[exotic steeple]

rogue actually not bad in m+

but in raid bring shame to guild

[vast dust]

I don’t think they’re bad. Plus it doesn’t matter. I will ALWAYS play a Rogue. It’s just wild to see how few of us there are

[tribal blade]

lol damn you missed the entire arc of rogues slowly becoming more and more useless

[red flame]

Rogue do low damage (ローグの攻撃はゴミ). same parse as arms war (パース赤、戦士と同じ). Bring shame to guild (ギルドの恥). M+ instant decline. (招待拒否). I stand in city like NPC.

[vast dust]

Compared to the early days. We were everywhere

[hazy breach]

Fwiw rogue has always been unpopular

[vast dust]

Apparently lol

[tribal blade]

true rogue was incredibly good during vanilla

but our numbers have always been low for whatever reason

[exotic steeple]

slowly deleting rogue

[red flame]

LMAO this is so real it hurts but lowkey kinda funny 🥲

[exotic steeple]

our utils become less relevant

[tribal blade]

yeah that's basically what happened sadly

getting things taken away/nerfed/etc till we're left in this state

[vast dust]

But during Vanilla we were FAR more populated

[exotic steeple]

u got mage with basically BL, Int buff and better shroud

[hazy breach]

Idk probably just felt like it because you got ganked a lot by them

[swift tinsel]

you see a lot more of them in classic vanilla now bc people are way, way better at min/maxing shit

[vast dust]

I did the ganking

[tribal blade]

stealth was also a very relevant thing to have back then

[swift tinsel]

ye

[tribal blade]

stealth improved your gameplay across so much of the game

now in all serious content it's nothing really

[swift tinsel]

nope its just a speed boost between packs for sub now

[vast dust]

I’ll forever remember stealthing Blackrock Spire with my Rogue guild mates for Barmans Shanker

[red flame]

tbf i dont mind this bc i dont have to beg tanks to be considerate of me & then piss off the whole group

that was my biggest pet peeve of DS assa

[tribal blade]

i'll always remember being taken to BRD runs because i actually lvled up my lockpicking

[swift tinsel]

with that in mind, assassination in big packs feels like omega ass now for bleed spread

[tribal blade]

so people wanted to bring me

[red flame]

i wish that was still relevent

locked doors & shi

[tribal blade]

it's ok so long as stuff lives long enough

[red flame]

so fkn cool thematically

[exotic steeple]

imagine if assa had the dk treatment where ur bleeds spread automatically

would be nice spec to play

[tribal blade]

the energy bottle neck CT is feels really bad

[swift tinsel]

did a magt last night and any time they double/triple pulled it was butts

[exotic steeple]

but they dont know how to design rogue for nowadays content it feels like

[red flame]

i actually loved having the Key Ring & then rogues w Lockpicking yk

removing Keys was a crime

[red flame]

i think its more they just dont care enough at all

[vast dust]

Ageee

[swift tinsel]

yeah this was really really relevant and throttles so much

I really didn't enjoy it

[vast dust]

When I came back I kept looking for my key ring lol

[red flame]

bc any of us could come up w some 10/10 ideas that every rogue would love

they just dont gaf to ask or attempt

[swift tinsel]

on like a 5 pull it was pretty nice but once you start getting into 8+ its real stinky

[vast dust]

And was like, where are all the lockboxes to level lock picking?!?!?

[exotic steeple]

its just unhealthy for the game bruh

[vast dust]

And was confused Feint wasn’t for threat meter anymore lol

[tribal blade]

they got rid of all those fun little things we had back then

[exotic steeple]

an mmo with no interest in designing proper classes/specs

[red flame]

so real, all the flavor is gone
now we're just sad skinless, seasonless boiled chicken breasts

[chilly kite]

safe to assume we get no tuneing once again for sub tomorrow?

[keen dome]

Maybe if the boss dies

[vast dust]

To be fair there are SO many more/new classes to take players away from Rogue now then there were in Classic. So I get it. But there is def a Rogue population drought.

[vast dust]

Correct

[exotic steeple]

nimblefurry nerf

and another 12% to bp

but 1 % evis buff hey

nah jk but id imagine it so

[vast dust]

For Sub?

[chilly kite]

?? where is that

[exotic steeple]

i was kidding bruh

[vast dust]

Don’t f with us. We’re fragile at the moment

[exotic steeple]

xD

[chilly kite]

well i mean they "buffed" outlaw and gave sin a little bit in the right direction.

pretty sure that outlaw buff/bug fix is a net loss pretty much isn't it?

eleem what dev got hurt so bad by blade flurry that they hate it so much

[exotic steeple]

there are no rogue devs

[vast dust]

Speaking of Barmans Shanker……it’s gone right? Nowhere to be found in transmog either?

Because I would shank if I could still

[hazy breach]

Fwiw if you just ignore paladins rogues are doing fine on logs

Its only on the higher end that theyre struggling

The lower percentile you go the better rogue gets

[foggy estuary]

Is vessel of tortured souls calculated correct in sims? Sims the lowest in my trinkets but performs the best, how come?🙃

[chilly kite]

our rogue are the highest dps in raid forthe most part, and they are still only bringing one of us to mythic even tho we out perform 95% of the raid

[hazy breach]

Well it assumes you aint picking up every single orb, as that is very hard to do in fights

You can change the percentages of orbs you pickup in the sim

[vast dust]

I’m still working on my DPS in raids. I’m def not highest. But I haven’t raided since 2008 so it’s taking me a bit to get back up to speed

[exotic steeple]

there was a pic somewhere of a sub 100 parse beind lower in dps then devourer i think it was with a 45 parse lol

that should never happen

[foggy estuary]

Its a 4/6 hero but sims lower than beloren trinket 6/6 champ, and solarflare prism 6/6. which in theory due to agi both should be better, no?

[cursive bear]

must switch sin for pal, but even in sin, we are bad at 3 targets 😭

[chilly kite]

i think we are just bad on paladin no matter what spec

[hazy breach]

I mean yeah just give up on that fight

Its just over

It is what it is

[short aurora]

a small nimble flurry buff

[hazy breach]

Wont really matter

[short aurora]

with coup cleaving

[chilly kite]

why did they thake nimble out at the knee's that woulda been so good on paladin as it was

[swift tinsel]

precise cuts on nimble and revert evisc/strike removal

pls

[chilly kite]

we don't even want buff's we just want our talents reverted to how they were lol

[short aurora]

i do agree

[foggy estuary]

DFA was fun 🥲

[chilly kite]

imagine if shadow clones actually did damage... IMAGINE

[hazy breach]

Imo the issue isn't even that sub is bad on paladins, that's fine

[vestal relic]

give pc back to outlaw and sure it would perform fine

[hazy breach]

Assa and outlaw being bad though

That's sus

[short aurora]

im giga mad about the state rogue is in gameplay wise but atleast from that point on it only can get better

right?

[chilly kite]

yea i don't understand how assa is bad on that fight, shouldn't it slap. its like perfect for just a bleed cleave spec

[bold crane]

I'm a returning player(last played in early DF), I feel the sub three is kinda shitty. You either pick these 3 talents for ST or the other 3 for AOE. And that's it. No trade-offs, no big decision, no choose something based on your playstyle. And from what I've seen Goremaw's Bite is essentially a dead talent

[lilac stag]

Outlaw being the cleave spec that can’t cleave is the more hilarious part

[chilly kite]

doesn't stop them from getting their cleave nerfed more tho lol

[vestal relic]

outlaw rn is disfonctionnal and bf nerrf are just a slap in the face

[chilly kite]

meanwhile devourer and mm hunters are what 8-12% above everyone on st and multi. and just left alone

[hazy breach]

I mean they got buffed on paladins

[short aurora]

by what

[hazy breach]

But yeah on bigger AOE it's a slight nerf for some reason

[short aurora]

1%?

or whats the value on 3

with bf nerf

[chilly kite]

how bad is survival now? are all 3 hunter specs top tier now

[vale pine]

tuning this season feels strange

but well

[exotic steeple]

why cant they just like "increase damage dealt on X boss by ...%" lol instead

[lilac stag]

Survival better than all 3 rogue specs.

[vestal relic]

interresting way to qualify a shit show

[short aurora]

that sounds like you're a diablo 4 developer

[chilly kite]

idk what they did to bm, but our bm hunters are like 10% above the rest of the raid on almost every fight. grantide our range are terrible because rogue are right behind the bm hunters lol

[short aurora]

"increased damage while target is chilled on being invulnerable while being in 10 yard range"

i hope they never do such a thing

[exotic steeple]

im eating burnt dinosaur nuggets bro wdym developer

[hollow spear]

Is there a way to exclude fights on WCL or would you have to do that yourself by downloading the csv?

[vale pine]

you would need to use the api, web scrapping or similar iirc

[fierce wigeon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Nope, no idea how you would do that

I was just checking other fights stats, especially on hc rogue looks pretty solid

Which im not really sure why that would be the case

[crystal bone]

mythic tends to have more adds that live longer, and longer kill times?

idk what other big factors there are

but yeah heroic, rogues are blasting

[keen dome]

Maybe there's someone rekilling bosses loads of times

just one rogue acting as an outlier

[crystal bone]

well not blasting, but average lol, or slightly above

[fleet acorn]

+14 pos

[fair stump]

Am I just bad or does sub struggle on lightblinded boss?

[keen dome]

It does because we have no good cleave for it.

[dry flame]

potentially both can be true

I can confirm that sub is not great on the boss

[fair stump]

I was doing mostly good on other bosses, but once I reached lightblinded, my ranking dropped to 5th

[keen dome]

I wouldn't stress too much. It's just really awkward and painful as Sub. Can break shield I guess and livelord it.

But we lack the tools to do big dam

[fair stump]

I see

[keen dome]

One thing I do on heroic is just adjusting and STing the highest one because fuck it, may as well

[fair stump]

Yeah, the cleave for 3 adds is painful

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/ralph-wiggum-simpsons-hi-bye-gif-16529059407582436389

• sub on paladins

[fair stump]

I feel I did way better on council

Than paladins

Did Liquid bring back sub rogue for L'ura?

[leaden sequoia]

Has anyone managed to do ?? Nul as sub? valeera takes a dirt nap every time I press dance

[keen dome]

Both teams have their Sub rogues, yeah

Or they did last time I checked.

[fair stump]

You need to tank the boss while you ress Valeera

As long as you can consistently ress Valeera so she tanks, you can do Nullaeus

He's easier compared to Kyveza

[swift tinsel]

I'm a little surprised they didn't swap the rogue for more boss damage

[keen dome]

Boss damage does seem ridiculously high, so I assume Atro has good value?

[swift tinsel]

would be my guess

with so many of them being pass/fail though idk

[keen dome]

Yeah I dunno, I don't know the fight well enough / have the brain good enough to figure the precise reason out

[swift tinsel]

was watching gingi pov and he moused over boss dam and uhdk was leading, and liquid mentioned last night about possibly benching rogue for another dk but didn't opt for it

or having him switch to sin

[sinful zephyr]

Not sure I heard that correctly but Atro must me quite strong in the last phase, maybe double dipping

[swift tinsel]

would be difficult to bring someone new into a fight this far progged

[lilac stag]

Get her to at least lvl 30. Make smart choices with your curios

[atomic bobcat]

how you guys track Gaze trinket?

[lilac stag]

400 pulls of pixel perfect dancing. Roster likely set for both

[hazy breach]

No need

[atomic bobcat]

its rarely proc in my opener, and it ramps

[swift tinsel]

stacks ironfur

and its rng

[dreamy wedge]

Hey everyone. I am at 6-7 cp during dance and I need to stun NOW - do I use cheapshot or kidney shot?

[swift tinsel]

kidney

CS->builder, kidney->finisher

[lilac stag]

I think they mean more from wasting global + full finisher cps vs wasting global

[dreamy wedge]

^

[lilac stag]

@hazy breach did you math that by chance?

[swift tinsel]

from logs it looks like evisc+sf outdamages strike during dance

on avg

so higher opportunity cost even with umbral

[vale pine]

its basically passive

[swift tinsel]

cp don't matter anyways in dance

[dreamy wedge]

It matters for globals.

[fossil forge]

whats a good sub overall looking like rn

in like a 16

[dreamy wedge]

Maybe I am misunderstanding but doesn't that means it's better to use cheapshot?

[swift tinsel]

ye

from a global efficiency standpoint

then you can use a damaging finisher the next global

[dreamy wedge]

Thanks.

[swift tinsel]

and likely have apex on it

[sonic quail]

Been playing it, feels pretty mid in keys, and I mean I guess it’s an ok add pad spec in raid?

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cyan mauve]

hi, any good sound alert add on for proc on evi / achiev?

blizz one is not accurate

[lilac stag]

The what?

[cyan mauve]

the finisher procs on 4 buffs

replacing evi

[chilly kite]

man i wish we could just spec out of coup, or idk make it a faster animation

[manic salmon]

gm guys i hope the bench treats you well today

[vale pine]

coup de grace

don't think you have an alternative to the official api

[plush roost]

Omg omg guys i just discovered why they are leaving rogue pretty low

[keen dome]

Is it because we're cool?

[plush roost]

Lura drops the "Fangs of Lu'ra" legendary item, the feature is it automatically talents Lu'ra's Bite, which is an updated Goremaw!!!

And removes fall damage

!!!@@

[keen dome]

hahaha

[plush roost]

Real and trueee

[keen dome]

If only

[chilly kite]

you missed the 1st

[keen dome]

How many abundances do you have to do to grind it out though

[swift tinsel]

all of them, but none can be in a raid group

[fallow ingot]

there is any macro / solution for vanish -> SS succesfully everytime ? sometimes my Vanish is insta break

[solemn hedge]

i am now benched for the dragons aswell. time to reroll ):

[fallow ingot]

same

[solemn hedge]

i didnt prog a single mythic boss so far

[fallow ingot]

no putting a rogue on the first 3 is criminal

[solemn hedge]

i did get them in the reclear and got the dagger but still

i have a feeling that i wont progress voidspire at all

[sinful zephyr]

Perfecto top dps in their best try now 😄

[chilly kite]

meaning we will never get any tuneing lol damnit perfecto

[leaden sequoia]

I did it folks!

[exotic steeple]

just play like perfecto

ez

if echo doesnt kill before na reset, its gg

[chilly kite]

how is he top on gingi's meter but nobody else's is that boss damage only

or only p4?

[hazy breach]

p4 has a 10x damage amp or something

[chilly kite]

that makes more sense how he'd be top in p4 lol

[exotic steeple]

liquid still sleeping?

or they went dark lol

[solemn isle]

I think sleeping

[swift tinsel]

its 8am there

[keen dome]

They went to bed, I think, yeah

[solemn isle]

they better wake up soon or they are in trouble

[keen dome]

Which is probably the smart choice

[chilly kite]

someone prolly woke them up after that last pull

[swift tinsel]

today is the day basically

[manic ice]

didnt they end raid about 6hrs ago?

[exotic steeple]

they better be having breakfast rn

[sinful zephyr]

could still be 100 pulls unstill someone flukes it

[solemn isle]

echo has had a few good p4 pulls in the last hour

they are 1 good pull away now

unless there is another secret coming, which I doubt

[exotic steeple]

nah then its split time

[chilly kite]

we also don't know if it has to goto 0 it might die at 10%

[exotic steeple]

true true

kill could be any pull from now on

hope echo wins this man

after the dimensius thing

[void ocean]

last pull i tho they got it, seemed rinse and repeat

16%

wasnt sure what killed em

[grave girder]

enrage

[exotic steeple]

whole room went purple

[void ocean]

oof

[exotic steeple]

and they died

[void ocean]

was it

iirc it was quite in light

[chilly kite]

honestly this is echo's race to lose, they have the higher ilvl this time. if it makes it to reset liquid just auto wins so one of them has to kill it today

[exotic steeple]

yup

[chilly kite]

i love it when its both of them pulling side by side like its going to be in like 30 min

[fiery fog]

secret phase into ANOTHER secret phase would be wild

[solemn isle]

as I chaos enjoyer I hope there is

or bait them, make the boss go back to 1B hp again and then have it just fall over and die

[chilly kite]

i wanna see a surprise xaletos appearence at like 5%

[void ocean]

last night there were pulls when they both went to p3 with like a few % diff

simultaneously

[fiery fog]

lura dies in secret phase into xalatath phase

[void ocean]

cant they just go to SotT and kill it there, way easier

[chilly kite]

the hype if it goes into like a sinestra raid boss

[exotic steeple]

boss will be unkillable for rest of the season for most guilds still even after nerfs lmao

without those addons

[fiery fog]

i think some addon packs already have those in

[chilly kite]

after rwf this boss is getting taken out at the knees we all know that

[fiery fog]

at least some of them

[solemn isle]

it will get neutered

always does

[hazy breach]

The "neutered" version is still gonna be like 200+ pulls for most guilds

[fiery fog]

better than 1k+

[void ocean]

memory game reduced to 1 sign 😄

[solemn isle]

oh it will still be hard for sure, but it wont be this

[fiery fog]

at least sub seems to be good on that fight

[chilly kite]

they should leave it like this until 10 guilds do it

[fiery fog]

so we wont be benched at last

[void ocean]

define good

[swift tinsel]

remove one glaive, constellation spawns are way less aids

[void ocean]

at no point it showed on top 8

[chilly kite]

i've watched 300+ pulls and i still don't understand what determines the constelation pattern

[exotic steeple]

10 guilds man that will take like 2 months

[fiery fog]

just saw that after a wipe (didnt see the fight though)

[void ocean]

arent orbs spawning where players stand

[hazy breach]

Yeah because hes alive the longest in p4 when they have a 1000% damage boost

[chilly kite]

P4 dmg amp phase

[fiery fog]

living 5 seconds longer can make the difference

[void ocean]

in gym terms this would be "all you, bro"

[fiery fog]

bring in all the rogues

[hazy breach]

Liquid were discussing swapping out their rogue

[chilly kite]

he just lived the longest prolly with cloak lol

[hazy breach]

But decided not to because its too much reprogress

But its obviously not paladins, so its not like sub is unplayable

[fiery fog]

lets just say its not the worst

[swift tinsel]

yea, just unfortunately the most droppable class atm

[fiery fog]

and non rwf guild dont have 3+ of each class

[swift tinsel]

bc of how much others bring

and if they swap him to sin they gain execute but lose sub burst during omega amp

[fiery fog]

it was yesterday where i found out atrophic only lasts 10 seconds

which in turn makes it comepletely useless on bosses that walk out (like on paladins)

[chilly kite]

i think paladins also cleanse it off themself when they do each of the auras

[dry flame]

If any of you are worried about having too much haste,
This is with oils and mastery flask

[hazy breach]

Time to recraft or spam m+ for something without haste

We love breakpoints

[dry flame]

i need AA ring to replace one of the Nexus sets

they give so much haste

[hazy breach]

I mean if you have the nexus set might aswell keep it and replace something else

[chilly kite]

nexus rings are 0.8% of your overall damage you keep those

[dry flame]

I know the problem is i have haste on all 3 crafted, but i play all 3 specs :/

[light finch]

i mean maybe 1-2% to much haste, 18% is pretty tight.

mastery is just a bit low

[dry flame]

from my crafts, dagger is only 40 haste, neck is big, 147 haste , boots 60 haste

but if i do neck recraft, i have to find some haste again

can get like 30 from gems, so prob not too bad

[shy locust]

What haste % should we aim for?

[dry flame]

quite low yeah

[dry flame]

684-700 haste

[hazy breach]

If youre thinking "hmm why are they giving me the numbers in rating and not percentages?" its because some people play races like nelf/goblin which give 1% additional haste, but that doesnt work for shadow dance duration

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[dry flame]

This was from Midnight Falls HC just now, ring proc wasn't giga

[hazy breach]

Im not saying it is

[swift tinsel]

its free damage on good-statted rings

[dry flame]

its just exact stats to fix my haste and get a lot more mastery, that's why i was thinking

[swift tinsel]

same with cosmos neck

the proc is butts but the stats are good

[dry flame]

ill see if i get it in vault and decide probably

[hazy breach]

Lura neck probably better, but thats a bit rough to get

[dry flame]

didnt drop just now

[chilly kite]

this is whati 'm sitting at with a verse neck because bad rng on pitt

[hazy breach]

Do the pvp quests

The training ground ones

Gives guaranteed hc neck with mastery+haste

after 8 bg wins (can do against bots, which makes it very easy)

[light finch]

how often do you have problems with the last global in shadowdance ?

[dry flame]

if i recraft neck, it'll put me at 633 haste, and even with gem swaps, im still under 684

[sour valve]

Guys it gives a critt buff? To max. the outlaw dmg?

[chilly kite]

its rough, but i can useally hit it

[light finch]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=266314/novice-combatants-necklace?bonus=13447

this is the pvp neck for the quests

hero track

[hazy breach]

0 rng, just grind

[chilly kite]

oh that seems legit,

[dry flame]

i also have these, which definitely don't help

[hazy breach]

Wish wow had more of those these days, people like those in classic

[chilly kite]

i crit the rng on vaults and got hgaze week 1 and mythic box week 2 lol

then it took 34 runs to get hero ommision of light

[light finch]

neck from last boss of voidspire is pretty nice, im using the champion version of it

[dry flame]

my crafted sims higher, so i don't have a reason to farm crown anymore

but its good yeah

[chilly kite]

idk can't go wrong with free damage

[dry flame]

so much haste this season, almost everything has haste

looking at the M+ table

[lucid jackal]

Crucible

[hazy breach]

Yeah but that doesnt require much grinding, and its mostly quests

[stone vessel]

how do you have so many stats?

my crit is super low like <300 lol

[chilly kite]

yea crit was hard to get

[hazy breach]

Like if you needed 15 renown or something but the void dungeons/delves also gave rep, thats the type of stuff im talking about

But clearly theyve been moving away from that

[swift tinsel]

bring back tabard rep grinding

[hazy breach]

Idk

[swift tinsel]

from dungeons

[dry flame]

@hazy breach you are right tho, i can keep rings and hopefully get Seat pants in vault, then slap some haste gems and im perfect

[chilly kite]

i'm hoping on reset for hero neck off crown

[swift tinsel]

I agree though I miss having a longer-term grind that isn't just farming the same key(s) over again

[chilly kite]

our guild is taking its time to get into mythic for some reason, so havn't got any mythic kills yet

[swift tinsel]

we finally start mythic next week

[chilly kite]

same

feel like they wait for rwf before even stepping in

[swift tinsel]

granted we haven't finished heroic Cosmos or March yet

[chilly kite]

waiting on liquids addon/weakaura/sneakaura w/e its called this season

[lilac stag]

who is paying for it?

[keen dome]

I think this would be helpful info to include in the !haste command. It's seemingly common confusion and good info, imo.

[swift tinsel]

we did a bunch of extra normal clears for tier for folks which took away a lot of time in heroic

and for a 4-hour-a-week guild it was stinky

[chilly kite]

we only raid like 5-6 hours a week.

[swift tinsel]

ye we do 2 hours tues/thurs

[chilly kite]

same except 3 hours during prog

[swift tinsel]

long time ago we had a third night but it was hard to find one that everyone could make

[lilac stag]

We moved normal to optional Saturday last week.

We move heroic to optional Saturday this reset.

[swift tinsel]

we have a lot of dads in the guild so its hard to get all 20

[chilly kite]

i think our average age in guild has to be mid to late 30's

[swift tinsel]

yeah we do optional heroic sunday alt clears now

which are usually the most fun night lol

[chilly kite]

so everyone has full time jobs/family's so finding 2 nights was hard enough

[swift tinsel]

yeah we're mostly mid-late 30s+

most of them have kids

[chilly kite]

i feel like our generation is just the mmo generation lol

[swift tinsel]

yeah we grew up with all them lol

[chilly kite]

kids these days don't understand the 56k modem ragnaros kills

[swift tinsel]

plus a lot of the ones I know around my age (36) grew up with WC3

[keen dome]

lmao, yeah, honestly. There are def younger people playing Wow but it does seem common that.. yep

[swift tinsel]

and playing WoW was the natural extension of that

[wild briar]

What's the opinion now, is assa better than sub in m+ (high keys)?

[chilly kite]

yep, and all the greats like everquest, myst, city of heroes, aion, tera. i'm sure a bunch of others i missed

[keen dome]

City of heroes, my beloved

[keen dome]

Lord of the rings online

[dry flame]

WoW had its impact because of timing too. Before social media, it WAS a social media.
WoW is a 9-course meal, that satisfied you on several fronts. But nowadays, we are "snacking" all the time, so nobody needs a 9-course meal

[keen dome]

My first MMO. Where I mained a Rogu- I mean a Burglar.

[left ledge]

i think mmos just had more passion behind them

thats all

current mmos just feel like soulless slop with the sole purpose of making you grind 24/7

[keen dome]

the mines of moria expansion was legit one of the best MMO expansions ever. Just insanely competitive to WOW design

[left ledge]

the only exception is ffxiv, but ffxiv's latest expac has a story so bad it rivals borderlands 3

[chilly kite]

coh i mained a instant healing martial arts scrapper, and brought the servers down because i was tired of people asking for power lvling so i used phase shift to drag all of the lvl 50 monsters to the entrance of the lvl 40 zone max lvl was 40 on launch i forgot about that.

[sturdy mesa]

sub did great in m+?

[left ledge]

yes sub did great

now its time to lay sub to rest

for real though you can play sub in m+, its ok

[dusky yacht]

Lay sub to rest

Stand like npc in city

[wild briar]

so for high keys assa is the way?

[left ledge]

im really confused as to how sub found itself in this tuning state

for high keys you reroll

[keen dome]

That's my favourite activity

[left ledge]

[dusky yacht]

Bro same

[left ledge]

rogue is not going to be good in high keys

[dusky yacht]

I worked my ass off just to be able to stand there and look cool fr

[left ledge]

like can you push title on rogue, sure

but you're just less dps and less utility than other options

you literally do nothing unique or special

[chilly kite]

hell yea 3k i can get into keys, snap declined to 10's for 2 hours lol

[wild briar]

Yeah, but if you push for title, at this moment, which spec is better for higher keys.

[left ledge]

right now probably sub

after buffs maybe assa

[misty jacinth]

Is SnD passive like on assassination?

[left ledge]

its passive on all specs

[dusky yacht]

Kidney cheap blind kick literally doing nothing whole m+

[chilly kite]

nobody is gonna be able to touch zerocool after those sin buffs

[left ledge]

dipsatch/envenom/evis apply it

[misty jacinth]

Perf

thanks

[cursive vapor]

No problem

[lilac stag]

Rogue do low damage (ローグの攻撃はゴミ). same parse as arms war (パース赤、戦士と同じ). Bring shame to guild (ギルドの恥). M+ instant decline. (招待拒否). I stand in city like NPC.

[dusky yacht]

[left ledge]

unfortunately single target CC is just so... idk

useless in push keys

its all about spamming aoe stops

still not sure why they even took away aoe blind

[dusky yacht]

Yeah you gotta target the important things, it’s so difficult

[chilly kite]

idk i'm slamming kidney all the time into prio mobs

[left ledge]

just to give it back half a patch later

[chilly kite]

i don't even have cheap shot bound to a bar lmao

[dusky yacht]

Why can’t we just aoe kidney permanently

[left ledge]

we were about to get aoe kidney

but blizz didnt tune it properly

and people cried that it was too op

so they removed it

and gave us aoe blind

[hazy lichen]

what bro?

[left ledge]

they couldve tuned kidney to be like a 4 sec aoe stun at max cp

[chilly kite]

not wasting a global in dance on non damage

[left ledge]

wouldve made rogue insane in m+

[dry flame]

cheap shot is too expensive fr fr

[left ledge]

but now we get scuffed DB

db except it needs to be on a target!

nice!

[hazy lichen]

shit ig im just a team player then fr

[dusky yacht]

M+ isn’t about doing dps it’s about control, slow is smooth, smooth is fast

[left ledge]

its about both

you need to do dps

and have a couple buttons that just stop the pack

[dusky yacht]

That’s what I mean tho

[left ledge]

control is so fake

[shrewd lantern]

rogue stuns in keys are kind of low value

st stuns

[left ledge]

you just focus kick a target and do aoe stops

[dusky yacht]

You are already doing dps no matter what

[shrewd lantern]

on packs

xd

[left ledge]

its literally so mind numbingly stupid

you literally just need the abilities

yeah imagine you pull like the 3 packs before veximus in AA

im kidneying one mob!

lmao

[shrewd lantern]

single stops are just bad

[left ledge]

[shrewd lantern]

in keys

[hazy lichen]

nah

[swift tinsel]

yeppers I set my focus kick before the tank gets to them then focus kick while storm-bping

[hazy lichen]

kidney op

[swift tinsel]

then vibe

[left ledge]

kidney is like

[chilly kite]

where are these mythical aoe stops?

[swift tinsel]

pre-kidneying the gargs in pit is fun

[hazy lichen]

kidney on sr last boss

peak

[left ledge]

useful maybe once in an entire key

[left ledge]

0.5 patch

[hazy lichen]

kidney on the bird that casts mark of death peak

[left ledge]

we will get the scuffed version of DB back

[swift tinsel]

SR abductor kidney probs highest value

[shrewd lantern]

big value dr stun

[dusky yacht]

You mean one pack fight determined the value of all abilities, more at 10

[shrewd lantern]

since group already used sweep or nova

[dry flame]

Welcome to

want to stun? - dmg loss
want to blind? - no aoe allowed
want to defensive? - dmg loss

[swift tinsel]

but people dr it so fast

[left ledge]

that also replaces our only free single target stop

[swift tinsel]

seeing an insta-HoJ and then a half kidney feels bad

[left ledge]

yeah unfortunately thats how m+ is

you have one or two big pulls that need a bunch of aoe stops

[dusky yacht]

Nah

[hazy lichen]

comm it

[left ledge]

and if one class cant fulfill that role

it will struggle

[chilly kite]

its also IF blizzard doesn't decide to revert it saying blind aoe is too strong

[swift tinsel]

pugs

the ultimate comms defeater

[hazy breach]

Tbf the stuns don't cost that much dps

[shrewd lantern]

unless its a hunter

[left ledge]

aoe blind is too strong its basically dragon's breath but garbage!

[shrewd lantern]

then you just disengage the yoink

[swift tinsel]

yeah I don't really dps if its a hunter or monk

[dusky yacht]

I’ve solo carried keys on rogue using my stuns, I’m still doing top or 2nd dps, we don’t wipe and we time it

Where is the problem

[swift tinsel]

since they can transcend

lock port too iirc

[left ledge]

there's no problem there man

its just single target stuns are pretty low value in push keys

[dusky yacht]

Ok

[left ledge]

you typically are pulling massive packs

and need aoe stops

and because aoe stops dont actually STOP the cast

[lilac stag]

pulls are limited by stops

[left ledge]

they just postpone it

now you really fucking need a lot of aoe stops

[lilac stag]

thanks Obama

[left ledge]

again, not sure why they didnt just tune aoe kidney

[swift tinsel]

and you straight up lost a kick too from healer

[left ledge]

yep

[chilly kite]

i still want to know who was the guy that was like, every class gets an aoe stop. except rogue, fuck them they don't deserve it.

[dusky yacht]

Goddammit Biden, they’re eating the aoe stops

[lilac stag]

does rshaman still have their kick?

[dusky yacht]

Lets all play monks fk it

[swift tinsel]

yeah

30 sec shear

[left ledge]

unfortunately, the wow community

[hazy breach]

Hunters kinda dont

[left ledge]

any time rogue gets anything good for some reason people lose their shit on forums

hunters have a couple aoe stops no?

[shrewd lantern]

aoe blind wasnt even that good

[swift tinsel]

if it was a 3-4sec Stunning Secret

[shrewd lantern]

congrats you’re a bad frost dk

[swift tinsel]

vs full 6-8

[left ledge]

i thought hunters have a knock up and knock back

[chilly kite]

so every other class basically, because everyone always has this innate hate for our class because of vanilla when we were gods

[hazy breach]

Removed with midnight

[lilac stag]

Hunter still have the launch shit in air trap I thought

[left ledge]

oh wow really

LMAO

[swift tinsel]

yeah just binding now

so a slow/root thing

[shrewd lantern]

blinding sleet is just aoe blind but better

and dragonbreath

[left ledge]

i mean yeah aoe blind is awful

[swift tinsel]

remember when we couldn't aoe blind affix orbs

[left ledge]

it literally robs us of our only free single target stop

[hazy breach]

They do have a talent that makes their st stun also hit 4 more enemies for a 1s stun

[swift tinsel]

unless there was another mob nearby

[light finch]

pretty funny to look at perfecto and exile playing and they dont give a fuck about delaying the 2nd Shadowdance for 2+Combopoint SecTec.

[keen dome]

could we ever lmao

[swift tinsel]

nope lmao

[hazy breach]

But its capped so it's kinda grief

[dusky yacht]

gets PoM pyro’d by an high warlord/grand marshal arcane/fire mage rogues op

[swift tinsel]

but now we really can't

bc no aoe blind lmao

[chilly kite]

bro do you even vanish

[left ledge]

yeah orbs were annoying af on rogue

[shrewd lantern]

because the damage difference is pretty minor

[chilly kite]

oh wait that doesn't work anymore lol

[swift tinsel]

I also love when Emissary spawns as soon as dance ends

[hazy breach]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[hazy breach]

You shouldnt either

[shrewd lantern]

your average heroic raider cares more about 0.2% dps gains

than rwf players

[dusky yacht]

Mb should have been permanently able to vanish in bgs

[fierce umbra]

hey guys, I use Light Company Guidon. when should i use second dance in the opening situation? Use the second dance when the trinket buff left or should i use it with second sectec even though trinket buff ended?

[hazy breach]

It's too hard to do correctly for almost no gain

[left ledge]

wym

if you pull it off its a 1% gain

[light finch]

My guild has been pretty sympathetic to my complaints about this class

[hazy breach]

No

[left ledge]

damn is it less

[tidal salmon]

Bring back open world pvp without war mode so I can sap people maliciously again

[left ledge]

[shrewd lantern]

its nice they gave whirling surge its own cd

[chilly kite]

my guild has been the opposite, because myself and the other rogue useally are top dmg, so they are convinced we are sandbagging.

[shrewd lantern]

now i can dismount people 0 cost

[left ledge]

my guild just calls me atrophic

nice to know you guys are viewed as rogues

[hazy breach]

If you perfectly time the last 0.5s guidon snapshot and also get the sectech supercharged it's +0.2% to just lining it up with the end of blades

[dusky yacht]

Use second dance with 8 sec left on blades, use guidon ~1secish before blades, it takes 1 sec to update the talent

[left ledge]

aint no fkin way

LMAO

[hazy breach]

Which is why I'm constantly telling people to not

[left ledge]

ive been trying to snapshot

[tidal salmon]

When there's two rogues we get called atrophic and the cripple

[left ledge]

ye fk that i guess

[left ledge]

thats a funny joke

but it does make me wonder

does atrophic still stack

[chilly kite]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-and-morty-you-pass-butter-welcome-to-the-club-gif-9281996 midnight rogue

[hazy breach]

Nop

[left ledge]

oh wow GG

[dusky yacht]

This dooming is numbing

[hazy breach]

Not since undermine

[left ledge]

no parry removal, no atrophic stacking

[tidal salmon]

Yeah so quite literally you have one atrophic and one crippling poison

[light finch]

sometimes im talking so much about the faults/bugs in this class that im certain they know more about rogue then their own class.

[tidal salmon]

It's a funny time

[left ledge]

its ok guys

[lucid jackal]

Well u should probably use numbing

[left ledge]

next tier there's a legendary dagger

and rogue will be topping

[chilly kite]

anytime we bring up the issues with our class, we get slammed with tettles pictures

[latent finch]

Do you know how much is the difference between the 8 sec rule and just chain dances without any delay?

[tidal salmon]

Probably but I'm numb to it

I'm sorry

[keen dome]

What if it's a sword

[light finch]

dude please no, i needed 20 weeks to get sylvanas dagger, was such a shit time.

[dusky yacht]

What if it’s a hunter buff

[left ledge]

sylv dagger was goated

[hazy breach]

Like 1% since your sectech gets delayed and desynced

[left ledge]

holy fuck i would love to have sylv dagger back

it took me 22 kills

[hazy lichen]

any tips on myth chimarus my damage is so shit on it every kill

[left ledge]

but man that dagger was fun

[light finch]

every fucking week, i benched after every progress boss on reclear to have vault for sylvanas hc dagger until we killed her mythic

every fucking week no dagger

[tidal salmon]

Iirc you're gonna look shit compared to logs where the other rogues get to pad more on the shitty ads

[fiery fog]

can melee even hit the boss in p4 lura? xd

[coral pier]

Guys Finality or Veiltouched in M+?

[hazy lichen]

yea thats what im thinking cause im also assigned to first madness soak

[tidal salmon]

Just vibe with it tbh, if your group kills it all is happy

[shrewd lantern]

i dont get how first soak is bad

you get to rip cds on boss

then sectech coup the add set

[light finch]

blizzard really loves the spawn 5-10 adds and destroy them in 5 seconds raid design

[tidal salmon]

I think it's moreso what other lads are in whatever group he's in, to depend on how much DPS he can actually sink into the mobs before they explode

[light finch]

nothing would be lost in the fight if those little adds wouldn't be there

[chilly kite]

except hunter pad

[tidal salmon]

Also hi team my group forced me to be subtlety this tier

[light finch]

m+ or raid ?

[tidal salmon]

Both lol

[light finch]

some bosses in raid are assa bosses if you have enough add damage

[tidal salmon]

We do not, sadly

[shrewd lantern]

assa is kind of fine this tier

rogue you’re just there to apply atrophic anyway

[light finch]

no better timing to play sub, everything that was hard in this spec was purged with midnight

[stone vessel]

what embelishment do I use for belt?

[tidal salmon]

Yeah I'm happy to not be how I felt during araz last season

[shrewd lantern]

it wasnt hard tbh

[tidal salmon]

Araz was suffering

[shrewd lantern]

though araz was only a sub boss for like

the first month or two

[dusky yacht]

Yeah just stab the boss once for athropic and hs back to silvermoon, another hard day at work

[shrewd lantern]

jk your debuff is 8s

[tidal salmon]

I just stuck to sub on it because sin CDs were kinda aids on it

[shrewd lantern]

instead of 1h

[dusky yacht]

But if they have a lot of dps unlike us surely 8 sec is enough no

[shrewd lantern]

idk all i know is araz felt terrible post turbo

adds didnt live

[light finch]

in m+ last season you had to think about if you send your shadowdance or not and what to do with cooldowns, now its just send it, you always have atleast 1 shadowdance ready and only 1 cooldown

[shrewd lantern]

You just sent your cds last season if you got value

out of them

only real thought was if you played prism antenna

if you send prism stacks

[dusky yacht]

You guys are using shadowblades when mob is at 1%?

[tidal salmon]

Adds didn't live plus some lad still somehow fucking up getting the funny lads slowed mechanic

Just see one in a pull run on over

[shrewd lantern]

in that sense m+ kind of the same

if you got sb value you sent

except now its bp spam with more than 1t

[light finch]

i understand why they gutted trickster aoe, but the ss bp spam is pretty lame.

[shrewd lantern]

im halfway through my xenas spam suffering

one ring acquired

[lucid jackal]

Why is storm bp spam lame but shadowstrike evis spam is cool

[keen dome]

I hope the next drops soon

[shrewd lantern]

im like 10 aa runs this week with no puzzlebox

though

[dusky yacht]

Good for you tbh

[light finch]

played like 25 pits for the legs, then someone other joined and i got legs, ring and back in 3 runs, my shining angel in priest armor.

[dusky yacht]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1487567692931010621/puzzlebox.gif

[swift tinsel]

I've done zero targeted gear m+ farming and my mental is loving it

[shrewd lantern]

pit ring is kind of mid

[swift tinsel]

just filling vault

[keen dome]

I was compelled to do rings

I just had to do it

[light finch]

nah got ring from xenas, cloak from spire

[shrewd lantern]

yeah xenas ones goodge

[keen dome]

I meant to reply to haptics with that, oops

[shrewd lantern]

pit legs i just hope for alleria

[keen dome]

But the rings consistently doing 1% and being perfectly statted

glorious

[light finch]

traded like 5 puzzles to guild mates, maybe the good karma just activated

[shrewd lantern]

i just need to pull guidon this reset

and i wont need to farm aa

[swift tinsel]

our RL did like 15 xenas the other day and finally got his ring, I'm gonna laugh like a maniac if he gets the myth one in vault

he even got a champ warbound one lol

[shrewd lantern]

only reason i havent enchanted one yet

in case vault

[light finch]

anyone of you and your guiilds tried to get some random mythic drops from the mobs infront of belo'ren ?

[shrewd lantern]

no we just kill the voidspire big boys

[swift tinsel]

I'm taking a very casual approach bc I'm just not that invested in this season mentally

[shrewd lantern]

huge shirt value

[dusky yacht]

I got 4 omissions of light drops to random people in parties who didn’t want it but couldn’t trade thanks obama

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i had that with puzzlebox

apparently guy couldnt trade since he only had mw trinkets

above hero

[chilly kite]

for me it was always the garbage dps that got it

[shrewd lantern]

me seeing a fury war overall 70k

[chilly kite]

i had a ww do 55k overall and get the ring, and almsot flipped my desk

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chilly kite]

bro got out damaged by the tank

[shrewd lantern]

people putting their higher wep in offhand are funny

[dusky yacht]

Worst part is my only vault option for first mythic vault was occlusion

💀

[chilly kite]

i mean not terrible to get a bis ring myth track

[shrewd lantern]

i dont recall if that set bonus scales up

[chilly kite]

it scales

[shrewd lantern]

on higher ring or overall

[chilly kite]

100 dmg per ilvl

i have 6/6 5/6 and mine does 7100 i think

[stone vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m6Ha7YffdaNm1SPiD9dQgz is this a low sim?

[dusky yacht]

Is that raid buffed

[hazy breach]

No 4 piece nor good trinkets

[open coyote]

when i'm playing the DS single target build, i should try to aim for 2 SC CP evicerate on darkest night and then use the 1 CP on sectec right?

[left ledge]

wish we had logs and the ability to see what feint works on with lura

[open coyote]

i usually just go by trial and error, "do i take less damage now" and then hope i didn't have a priest shield or something else on me that can mess it up

works every time 40% of the time

[left ledge]

i think i will just default to elusiveness

[obsidian crag]

arent u ashamed of using tier 2 enchant in a myth dagger?

[astral mountain]

So for raid are we looking at sub more or sin?

[dusky yacht]

Me and my gf are ordering kfc

[left ledge]

why trickster on lura btw

[tulip gorge]

is there any way to track the first dance? or did the small indie company forget? 🤡

[hollow spear]

Cleave on adds and generally not shit like ds

It's not like ds is noticeably ahead

So why would you int every x pulls by losing your mark

[dusky yacht]

Cooldown duration, buffs, add dance to it

In bars

[grizzled gust]

I hate this thing so much

[fierce umbra]

hum.. 2 target situation need to use evicerate and over 3 target is black powder?

[iron whale]

speaking really hypotethical and I am not a game designer whatsoever, but I thought up of some sort of "rework" for Shuriken Storm and Black Powder because both visual and gameplay loop feel so BORING that in terms of readability you can't even identify or feel the build-up and frankly both abilities just feel like fillers despite being the core AoE engine

Shuriken Storm New: Shadow Rush
25 energy, instant

Summon Shadow Clones to dart through nearby enemies, striking up to 8 targets within 10 yards, dealing Shadow damage and generating 1 combo point per target hit.

Applies Umbral Mark to each enemy struck.

While Shadow Dance is active, Shadow Rush strikes 1 additional time and prioritizes unmarked targets.

Black Powder New: Umbral Execution
finishing move
20 energy

Unleash the shadows bound to your enemies, causing all targets affected by Umbral Mark within 10 yards to detonate, dealing Shadow damage per combo point spent.

Damage is increased based on the number of marked targets, with reduced effectiveness beyond 8 targets.

Consumes all Umbral Marks.

@vale pine @hazy breach sorry for the pings, I commend your wisdom, o' Rogue gods, and await my punishment for my ignorant arrogance..............................

[dusky yacht]

Yes, I am so happy I got guidon and gaze

[grizzled gust]

Unfortunately im unlucky so i have Box and Tangle

[bronze turret]

Isn’t this just a flavor update?

Would not change gameplay

[fierce umbra]

on log site people use black powder on 2 target situatioin. but when i sim 2 target it says use Eviscerate

[bronze turret]

New name, clones, but still storm -> finish

[fierce umbra]

confusing what is right..

[hallow mortar]

i would rather shadow rush into umbral execution

[grizzled gust]

TBH I do think Black Powder is the weirdest visual of sub rogue, you "Launch Explosive Black Powder at all Nearby Enemies"

[tepid steppe]

use black powder on 2 target if you have a point in Potent Powder

[grizzled gust]

which is just a puff of black smoke

[bronze turret]

Yea we have different focus in the game, it could be invisible and be called A and B and i wouldn’t care

Spamming A and B

[hallow mortar]

umbral execution would go hard back on kurog

[grizzled gust]

Personally i think the shadow clones are also hard to see

[iron whale]

mostly, yeah

[grizzled gust]

which is fine, but its kinda funny that when im in melee im standing next to like, a paladin blowing up light all over the place, and an army of undead dk minions or hunter pets or something going "where the hell am I?"

[iron whale]

what would you guys think though?

[iron whale]

that's literally my feeling everytime I run a dungeon

I literally just can't see myself at all anywhere

[iron whale]

it's so underwhelming that it feels like a filler ability

[iron whale]

I agree

[lilac stag]

Turn off particle effects

[grizzled gust]

I think we should bring old killing spree back but make it work like Blade Dance from Demon Hunter

[iron whale]

but I don't want that, I like particle effects and cool abilities
I just wish I also had my own to show off

[lilac stag]

well when they all blend together they ain’t cool

So what’s the point?

[lucid jackal]

Ill ask again, why do people see Storm BP as boring, but Shadowstrike Evis as "cool" when it comes to sub aoe

[iron whale]

I loved KIlling Spree visual though I hate Outlaw fantasy...
and the way they turned it into a shotgun Overwatch Ultimate ability looks so bad to me

[dusky yacht]

I’m a bit annoyed that I have spells set to essential only and I see imp fireballs and god knows what, is that essential to me? Lmao

[grizzled gust]

Fantasy

[lilac stag]

rogues and anti-pad propaganda

[grizzled gust]

PVP

[iron whale]

Shadowstrike should have a mirrored animation variant imo
also Secret Technique should have a different animation than Shadowstrike because it's literally the SAME

[grizzled gust]

I don't mind shuriken storm!

[dusky yacht]

Oh man I better dodge the imp fireball that tracks me through walls

[grizzled gust]

Its so you can tell you're being attacked at all by them

and track the projectile back to the source

[dusky yacht]

How does this help me in raid

It’s not essential

[grizzled gust]

In raid? No idea.

[dusky yacht]

Pvp is not essential

[lilac stag]

sub fine in weeklies

[left ledge]

well its like 2% ahead, gives better defensive options, and idk about burst but it seems like you can squeeze more out of DS in amp windows than trickster