subtlety

[lilac stag]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[fleet blaze]

oh thank you. !

Where can I find a list of commands like !apex

[short radish]

don't think its updated

but keep asking questions and we'll either send a command

tell you to read the FAQ

or give you an answer

oh also to read the pins if its applicable

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[short radish]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[short radish]

thats probably the important ones

[fleet blaze]

Sorry, my English isn't very good, so I'm using a translator to talk. I'll check them one by one. Thank you!

[short radish]

no worries mate

[fleet blaze]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[fleet blaze]

@short radish Regarding 'Apex talent optimization', does it mean I should only follow that priority when ALL those conditions are met simultaneously? If even one is missing, should I just ignore it and stick to the normal rotation?

oh, i understand. thank you, and thank you google. @short radish Thanks for the help, have a good one!

[short radish]

no worries mate

you too

[glass kelp]

How long out are you guys prepping dances time wise? It makes me feel so weird to just stop casting 2-3 seconds out and then I only stop like 1 second out and don't have enough energy for sectec off cd

I know our damage ramps way down outside of burst but is it really that bad that we don't care about not hitting buttons for that long

[finite hedge]

Backstab does no damage

it doesn't matter

Also, its more than just not having the energy. You want to ensure an apex on your first strike so your supercharged evis is apexed.

So you want to stack up some Shadow technique stacks. Don't worry about being afk a few seconds.

[glass kelp]

And with either full or no cp depending on hero setup

?

[finite hedge]

I mean who plays DS, but sure yeah. With DS you'd dance/storm and want to make sure your darkest night and sectech are both supercharged

[dusky yacht]

I just try and make sure I have Shadow Tech => 5, do one more backstab to get AA up and then Guidon (Wait one more second or so) -> Blades -> (AA) Sectecdance and then full send as usual

[finite hedge]

and darknest night needs to be apexed

[dusky yacht]

If I don't have 5 shadow tech to do that, I will still send my cooldowns and just pop off, it's more like an ideal

[finite hedge]

supercharged darkest night apex is the reason why DS is good if you decide to play that trash

[dusky yacht]

I sometimes start prepping for it even earlier. Honestly your DPS outside of burst windows does not matter that much at all.

This is the graph of my 98% parse on mythic vorasius, notice the extreme drops in damage done/time before my dances.

This isn't a bad thing. It leads to higher peaks. Which are the things that actually matter.

(I learned all of this stuff here and it felt super counter-intuitive to me as well, but it is honestly the truth)

Also if my bursts don't align with cooldowns perfectly, it's because I am not always popping everything on cooldown, adds, mechanics, ...

[olive citrus]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[olive citrus]

does this apply if secret technique is up as well?
or is it just for evis / coup?

[dusky yacht]

Basically it is telling you to get AA up if you are able to get AA up. There is one exception and that is during guidon double dance to get the extra sectec off.

[olive citrus]

and is it just for ST or also cleave?

awesome, thank you !

[dusky yacht]

I always get AA up even for cleave or m+ environments with many targets personally.

If you watch your damage numbers, you will see why

[finite hedge]

That's not really what its saying. It's saying that only if you have supercharged cps

Always getting apex up is not what that is saying

[dusky yacht]

Well I guess you're right

[olive citrus]

thanks for clarifying!

[dusky yacht]

But I mean ever since I've been making sure AA is up whenever I can get it up (and it makes sense to do so, mob isn't just about to die) my dps went up a lot so idk

[olive citrus]

sometimes it just feels bad to blackpowder / shadowstrike 5 times in a row and not get it lol

but I agree damage does go up when I make sure it's up

[dusky yacht]

Black Powder is a combo point spender, not a generator

AA comes up when you use a generator

[olive citrus]

sorry I meant shuriken storm

[dusky yacht]

That means you are below 5 stacks of Shadow Technique

[sturdy mesa]

night elf is the best race for sub?

[lucid jackal]

panda/mechagnome

[sturdy mesa]

can u explain? m new in this spec

[lucid jackal]

panda mechagnome is the best for basically every spec in the game

[dusky yacht]

So basically, when you have AA up, you create a clone that does half the damage of your finisher as shadow damage

So your finisher does effectively 150% dmg

This is why I always make sure to get AA up before I use a finisher, which is super easy to do

(in dance)

[sturdy mesa]

racials?

[lucid jackal]

yep

[sturdy mesa]

can un explain the racials for sub? sorry for disturb you

[lusty acorn]

Guys recraft how cost rn? Is they fix the lroblem

Problem

[dry flame]

Not specifically for sub. In general, Pandaren get 2x the stats from food buff.
There is primary stat food that give 50 agility, so for pandas it gives 100

[glass kelp]

Panda gets bigger food buff. 1%ish increase

[brisk onyx]

Because 50 agi provides the greatest damage increase, that's it

[dry flame]

When you go to the Crafting Orders NPC on the very top left it says "start recrafting order"

[sturdy mesa]

cool i see now

and mecha gnome?

[brisk onyx]

mecha gnome provides 50 agi too

this is just a very simple math problem, nothing profound about it

the optimal race is constantly changing; most of the time, it's just a matter of math

[glass kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/spreadsheet-office-slut-forever-gif-24840482

[sturdy mesa]

tysm for answers

[dire ravine]

Are we wanting to use our 2nd shadow dance in blades as soon as the first wears off- or do we hold for the 2nd sectech?

Ive been doing the former, and now I am unsure.

[dusky yacht]

8 seconds of blades left is when you do second dance

Second sectec when able

[glacial stag]

yep you always do the 2nd danse right after the 1st fades during SB

thats the one time where you dont hold for the next sectech, otherwise you always wait for a SD to align with sectech

[dusky yacht]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[glacial stag]

and as Glenn was saying you send the 2nd sectech when it is rdy

[dire ravine]

I have been doing this part- but popping my 2nd dance as soon as first fades.

[glacial stag]

wait so what I was saying only applies when you have guidon?

[dusky yacht]

Hmm I mean I would like to explain it more detailed but I just follow that guideline up above

[dusky yacht]

Yeah because without 4p and guidon you can’t fit the second sectec I’m pretty sure

Or it’s like super close

[glacial stag]

oh welp i was sending it too before i got my guidon

[dusky yacht]

I mean shit if it works it works

[dire ravine]

Im curious as to why myself- with blade windows being a significant damage window, why would we not want dance uptime as much as possible inside of it

[dusky yacht]

[glacial stag]

yeah thats true lmao

[glacial stag]

yeah its the idea, SB is way too strong to wait for the 2nd sectech to pop the 2nd danse

[dusky yacht]

Christ again I’m not sure, but I think it’s because of some kind of timing related to the sectec and your dance

[glacial stag]

so even if you miss supercharger on 2nd sectech thats compensated by the gain of your evisc with SB

[dusky yacht]

Yeah like it all ends up lining up nicer or something

Idk tbh this shit is theoretical physics to me sometimes lmao

[dire ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/hide-the-simpsons-bush-bushes-hermit-gif-5786484

Sometimes if im slow on my inputs I dont get my 2nd sectech until my 3rd dance

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I mean that is a haste issue then perhaps? Whats your haste at?

[glacial stag]

Oh yeah thats not good lol

You do send sectech first? and danse with full CP?

[small vortex]

if you dance earlier you usually dont get the 2nd sectec in blades and cant get trinket buff for duration

cause trinket gives flat haste so should increase the dance duration

[dire ravine]

718- well idfk man- cuz us using sec, the like secondary damage doesnt happen right as we press the input? and blades is like 2 seconds from falling off and im like ok.. is the damage going to be buffed? or did i just burn it

[dusky yacht]

Oh right, do you remember to use guidon 1sec+ before blades + sectecdance macro?

The haste talent thing takes upwards of 1 sec to update

[dire ravine]

#showtooltip
/Cast Shadow Blades
/use Light's Potential
/use 13

this is what i use

[dusky yacht]

No

[small vortex]

you want to manually cast trinket alone

[dusky yacht]

Use guidon 1sec+(ish) before blades

Try that

[glacial stag]

yeah you want to trink and like count to 1 in your head before sending blades

at least i do it

[dusky yacht]

The duration of guidon kind of doesn’t reallt matter

[glacial stag]

and it works

[small vortex]

if you can watch it the flag dropping is when you should get the buff

[restive stream]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HNgPaVcCdznL4YpB?fight=1&type=damage-done
Is that mid logs or trash?

[small vortex]

it can be a little off but its by like fractions of a second

[dusky yacht]

Yeah like a slow 1 second count basically, or in an encounter I do it when I’m getting into burst position, so by the time I’m there I can blades + sectec dance macro and pop off

[glacial stag]

first time on rogue? if yeah thats not bad at all

[dire ravine]

So, SS - LCG - Blades + Pot + Dance + SecTech?

[restive stream]

First time on sub

[glacial stag]

yeah thats a solid start

[restive stream]

Mostly played on assasination

[glacial stag]

just by looking at it rq, sectech seems to not have done that much damages

[dusky yacht]

Huh

[restive stream]

Most of time i dont understand why dps is so low

[glacial stag]

it could be higher, you should be always getting ready to send next sectech as soon as it appears

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MAH2dJRhKXF4pnG6?fight=4&type=damage-done

thats mine if u want to look into it

and you have a secret strat on chimaerus

you can cloak second phasing

[restive stream]

Wdym like i need to insta use it

[glacial stag]

and go back to pad on adds

[glacial stag]

No, always with a danse before

[dusky yacht]

Backstab on 5 shadow technique ideally, be max combipoints surely -> guidon + ~1sec wait -> blades -> sectec -> pop off -> 8 sec blades remaining second dance -> second sectec asap

[glacial stag]

But yeah

[lusty acorn]

Ik but recraft before reset cost 80!

[small vortex]

You should be casting your Dance + SecTec macro with max combo points on cd unless blades is ~10s left on cd

[glacial stag]

always looking when next sectech is up, and look when next danse is up

when danse is up the max prio -> getting your sectech asap

so you build max CP into danse into sectech

its the core of our gameplay because it interacts with unseen blades

[dry flame]

I am not sure what you mean

[glacial stag]

which is our top priority

[glacial stag]

thats the exact strat

[restive stream]

https://www.wowanalyzer.com/report/FdVwBqLA2RN9KPjp
here is some of new logs

[dry flame]

One thing I notice on the sims is that it says to not cast 2nd dance in opener, and cast with ST at the end of SB.
But, on the 2nd use, you chain SDs throughout the duration SB. I am not sure what the reason is

[uncut juniper]

!tips

[small vortex]

cause of lust

[dry flame]

So if we are NOT lusting on pull, we chain SDs in opener?

[lusty acorn]

When you craft it is cost 80
But when i recraft again it is cost 80 to thats was a probelm is they fix it?

[small vortex]

you get a ton of cdr on sectec during lust so you can hold for a second to supercharge Sectec

[glacial stag]

perfect so you have all the info here

[small vortex]

but outside of lust you wont so you send to cover last 8 for lash macabre and to just supercharge AA evis

[dry flame]

Ah, Myth Crests? No you don't need more myth crests, you keep the ones you used

[glacial stag]

like the SB uptime on Beloren

it should be much much higher, its our best CD

[dry flame]

Alright, thanks, chaining them from now on on non-lust pulls

[restive stream]

Shadow blades?

[glacial stag]

yes sorry

SB = shadowblades, SD = shadow danse

[dry flame]

ST=Secret Technique

[dire ravine]

me=confused

[restive stream]

As i seen i dont have enough time but i might me wrong

[dry flame]

Hotel=Trivago

[dusky yacht]

It will take a while until you understand this chinese

It’s because all our abilities are called shadow something or technique something, to be as confusing as possible

[glacial stag]

Generally you will always send SB on the opener, because it is 1:30 CD so it comes back rq

so even on 3min ish fight on heroic you should send 3 of them

[restive stream]

Thx

[restive stream]

But there is the big problem about my trinkets as u can see

[glacial stag]

oh yeah

but i have good news

you have both BIS for mythic + dunj and raid

but yeah two on use sucks atm

[dire ravine]

I think I have like a slight general gist, just trying to optimize as much as possible. Getting into the weeds, as they say.

[glacial stag]

You should get renown 7 with the void guys and get their trinket

[dusky yacht]

Find my shadowblade pops on mythic vorasius

[glacial stag]

its pretty strong and you can get it ez

You pair it with guidon in raid and box in M+

[dry flame]

This week i pugged myth void, 1st boss drops trinket, havoc DH rolls 96 yoink and leaves

its not even good for them

[dusky yacht]

You will get used to it and learn, just keep reading and ask multiple times if you need to, always get info from multiple sources cause sometimes people misunderstand themselves (I am guilty of this at times)

[restive stream]

Like now i use one with sb and full burst second when 2 sd ready

[flat flint]

quick observation about that log @glacial stag , you use SB before guidon

[glacial stag]

omg thats sad

and we got lucky 2 dropped on the first down

I got one 😄

[dry flame]

At least i have 289 puzzle box, so i don't need the trinket

[dusky yacht]

Oof

[glacial stag]

yup i saw it afterwards but i didnt have replay and for me i pressed it before

[dusky yacht]

This is incorrect? Guidon takes ~1sec + to update

[glacial stag]

but maybe i messed up with my fat fingers

[dry flame]

It's a double oof - we do TWO pulls on Vorasius,
We get it to 17% on 2nd pull,
one person DCs mid pull and half the raid leaves and group disbands

[glacial stag]

yeah thats what i though intially

[dusky yacht]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[glacial stag]

oh yeah thats compensating quite a bit lol

box is very good in raid too

[dusky yacht]

Slightlt before dance

That’s just before blades no?

I do guidon -> hold shortly -> blades -> sectecdance

[glacial stag]

No because i believe what is prolonged is the duration of danse

but in the opener yeah you do guidon before blades anyway

[dusky yacht]

Well yeah but blades has no gcd

[glacial stag]

since duration of guidon doesnt matter

[dusky yacht]

Am I tripping

[dry flame]

Both Guidon and Blades are same CD, so it can't ever be NOT before blades tbf

I think its implied

[dusky yacht]

.??

SB = shadowblades

[restive stream]

May i dm u i ve got some questions?

[dusky yacht]

Maybe I shouldn’t talk about this with 1hr of sleep after mythic raid night while on the train to catch a plane lmao

Good news is I’m able to charge my vape on this train W

[glacial stag]

lmao im coming back from the club

should go to bed too 😄

[glacial stag]

yes ofc brother

[dusky yacht]

Lmao we’re going zombiemode theorycrafting lets gooo

[restive stream]

Thx

[glacial stag]

though i might answer in a few hours lol

[glacial stag]

The game got us what can we do...

Im feeling like @teal coral with his sleep schedule

i'm not sure we are allowed to mention him in the sub chan

[flat flint]

one guy said he was doing low dps, arassk posted his log to help, i took a look at the log and it caught my eye that on this kill he used shadow blades before using guidon which can be bit misleading to the guy who was struggling with damage @dusky yacht , nothing major just observation like said

[glacial stag]

i hope he doesnt take it bad.....

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I realised afterwards my bad bro

Brainded

[teal coral]

wtf random sideswipe outta nowhere

[glacial stag]

but am i lying brother

Your still up

[dire ravine]

This is my opening sequence on a random kill I pulled when lust is used upfront.

So move LCG to an independent KB, and use before blades opener,

also in this, I didnt cast my 2nd sectech until 25 seconds in... xP

[glacial stag]

yeah thats pretty much perfect

though i would not use feint so early usually healers are pumping on the opener

[dry flame]

I thought on lust pulls, we hold SD for ST (especially with guidon)

[dire ravine]

you dont know how bad my healers are.

[glacial stag]

oh yeah mb im too drunk lmao

theres no second tech 🙁

and you should have gotten it back somewhere around 16-17s of the fight

[vale osprey]

It's very not perfect

[dry flame]

Who is, amirite?

[vale osprey]

By doing Guidon there instead of before blades you just straight up waste a second of blades

No second sectec

[glacial stag]

but same thing as my logs

maybe he used a 0:00

and it shows on logs like 1s later

idk this one tbh

[dire ravine]

I think I get overly nervous and dont want the 2nd sectech secondary hit to fall outside of the dance window

So I need to retrain xD

[glacial stag]

yeah with BL and guidon you cannot miss it

[vale osprey]

But without lust and doing it the way you are it CAN fall out of blades

SS + Guidon to start --> 1 sec --> SB, SD, SecTec

[glacial stag]

thats it

and you can macro sectech and danse if you want to be more efficient

[dire ravine]

This is with, or without lust?

[glacial stag]

though its only two keybinds so not that much of a hastle

[glacial stag]

with both

Lust will only allow you to get a supercharged second secret tech

it doesnt influence your opener

[vale osprey]

Every time

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TgyAKQc3rHJ7YVa9?fight=14&type=casts&source=41&view=timeline

This log does it

[vale osprey]

Not can, SHOULD

[glacial stag]

yeah so no funny things with the guidon time to appear on logs

[glacial stirrup]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[glacial stag]

i'm off to bed gn guys and gl @dusky yacht for the plane lol

[dusky yacht]

Gn bro, caught my second train, now to catch the third with 6 min in between to make it LMAO

https://giphy.com/gifs/filmeditor-hot-nervous-l4FATJpd4LWgeruTK

[dry flame]

use Sprint

[dusky yacht]

I’ll even pop a shadowstep if they’re not careful

https://tenor.com/view/rock-lee-gaara-naruto-chunin-exams-kick-gif-26861655

[dire ravine]

Is there a way to put my trinket in my essential CDs in the blizzard cdm?

[dusky yacht]

Uhh

I don’t have it there so idk

Anybody know?

[trail bison]

cant on blizz cdm

[dusky yacht]

Prolly why I don’t have it there kek

[dire ravine]

Terrific

[dry flame]

if you have "Cooldown Manager Centered", you can have separate bar with stuff

[dusky yacht]

Sick I should get that

[full halo]

Is the sharpening stone, which gives 4 weapon damage worth using on main hand over oil, I am around 700 haste with just 1 oil?

[dry flame]

I am way overcapped on haste and still probably not.
I should sim* and check if the other oil is better though

[dusky yacht]

Doesn’t the oil also give crit

[full halo]

Yeah, it does

[dusky yacht]

Can we sim the diff or not an option, I’m actually curious

[dire ravine]

neat! How does the centerpiece look

[shy flare]

Anyone know of a sheet or guide floating around that shows which dungeon and raid mechanics can be cloaked, vanished or evasioned?

[dry flame]

Same as default, but you can adjust how many icons per row and also to build up from center, so no matter if odd or even number of icons, it's always centered

Can't show - not on PC atm

[full halo]

I don't see it in the sim options, the it's called Adamantite sharpening stone, but maybe I'm just blind

[dusky yacht]

Yeah idk, but fuu says thalassian oil so Glenn use thalassian oil all hail fuu

[full halo]

I was not aware of the existence of this consumable till yesterday, so I used oils till now as well 😄 But my surv hunter friend was trying to figure out where he was missing some dmg, and while investigating we found out this one exist

[dusky yacht]

Kinda crazy imagine if it’s BiS and none of us know

@vale pine save us from our ignorance we beg

https://tenor.com/view/cat-woof-gif-12720405416087026985

[full halo]

I mean if it actually adds to ability damage scaling, it might actually compete with oil? But that is just guessing with no math backed behind it

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I mean I’m pretty sure it would have been considered at some point, but I’m still curious

[cosmic owl]

There is a slight delay between clicking ST and it actually doing damage. So if I use ST at the end of the SD window, and SD runs out before ST actually hits, does it still get the increased damage?

Basically, what I want to know does the increased dmg from SD apply only to spells that do damage while it is up or when they're pressed.

[dusky yacht]

I would think when it’s pressed but can’t confirm

[alpine wraith]

no it is dynamic you need to be in dance for it to do full dmg

[tribal blade]

1 day sectec will not be 4 seperate hits

and just 2 clone hits that hit insta

or 4 hits that hit insta

actually

[hard ferry]

Should I be trying to buff all my finishers during CDs with the Apex talents (if it doesn't happen naturally), or only the ones that are supercharged?

[tribal blade]

only SC

[keen dome]

Just the supercharged ones.

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hard ferry]

Ty

[keen dome]

A good little checklist to go through

[dusky yacht]

I always AA my finishers in dance tho

Is that really wrong to do?

[tranquil sorrel]

whats the % dps increase if I use 120% brain power to do this?

[dusky yacht]

69420%

Give or take 0.0067%

[tranquil sorrel]

actual answer tho? pls

[dusky yacht]

But you’re playing sona how can you go 120% brainpower

[tranquil sorrel]

I had no choice

[dusky yacht]

Press r bro idk

[tranquil sorrel]

they picked my janna

[dusky yacht]

Sadge

[full halo]

It looks significantly more complicated than it is in practice, most of the time it naturally lines up and you dont even need to think much about it. But its 1% for :Trickster: & 3% for . Theres also no hidden condition related to Bloodlust. From the FaQ section

[tranquil sorrel]

Hmm

1% is pretty worth

its just annoying

[small vortex]

Usually its not an issue to minmax it but if you are going into a pull dry you have to think for 3s to ss before spending

[full halo]

Its only really annoying for me in the opener when you have 4 SC in the first dance

[small vortex]

Like first pulls of a dungeon

[dusky yacht]

I need to catch fuu so I can ask them about always proccing AA for finishers in dance, I’m paranoid now, how’d I get 99% ilvl parse on mythic vorasius if I’m making a mistake like that lmao

[small vortex]

Its not necessarily bad to aa everything but you dont need to actively do so, only supercharged

[tranquil sorrel]

Plenty of rogues I talk to tell me theyre too lazy to actually bother doing so

[small vortex]

You really dont need to if you dont want to

But its minimal effort to shadowstrike like 1 extra time in your opener

[tranquil sorrel]

It's more of a parsing thing, unless youre liquid the 1% damage increase wont make or break a boss kill

[small vortex]

But if its making you mess up your gcds or lose evis casts dont worry

Ye

[dusky yacht]

Guess I’m overthinking again

I’ll just press buttons

[tranquil sorrel]

It's mostly a petpeve of mine, I dont like jank minmaxxing it just feels bad

[small vortex]

Im just vibing pressing buttons

[sharp ravine]

@dusky yacht you did 99 on vorasius Mythic ? That's my boy

[tranquil sorrel]

ilvl

[sharp ravine]

Still nice as he is new to sub

[dusky yacht]

98% non ilvl

28/world

[sharp ravine]

Goat

[tranquil sorrel]

W

[dusky yacht]

I’m Kurokage

Couldn’t have done it without help of everybody here

[tranquil sorrel]

Those trinkets

goddamn bro

i'm still using a fkn delve trinket

i hate my luck

[dusky yacht]

And I got Hungering Victory, my first Mythic raid ever, first boss we killed where I was present, I’m trial in that guild

Prolly largest W of my wow life

3 people whispered me after including guildleader, officer and 2nd dps

I hadn’t even seen the parse all I knew was I was top meters

[tranquil sorrel]

wp

[dusky yacht]

Thanks guys, I was so proud lmao

Who knew hitting a training dummy for hours 5 min at a time and comparing to unbuffed sims would work

[sharp ravine]

Just press buttons

Always work

[dusky yacht]

Fr

Wasn’t it you who told me to just chill or something

[sharp ravine]

Yeah

[dusky yacht]

Actually helped like 100%

first you overthink and analyse and lose your shit

Then you calm tf down and bam

[sharp ravine]

Call it pooling instead of chilling and there you go

Exactly the same tho

[dusky yacht]

I really think this was the key man like literally don’t stress and just prepare to pop off and you pop off twice as good

[torn tide]

what a god

[dusky yacht]

More like a stubborn idiot who asked an obscene amount of questions here lmao

[hollow flume]

Hello, I have a question abotu Sub Rogue - I feel like I should be doing a bit more damage than I currently am - or maybe I am just greedy. I have 250 ilvl, with 2 hero weapons - 642 haste, 54% mastery and 21% crit - trinkets are bad i suppose, Saptor's claw and the voidstorm trinket.

I do ~60-70k overall in a dungeon, I feel like I should be a bit better. I don't have the 4set piece and I do have enchants on my weapon/rings. Is the DPS okay? Do I require the 4set bonus? I would need 2k rating and a lucky vault to get it next week. The 4set bonus feels like it is insane for sub rogue

[dusky yacht]

4 set is huge for sub

I believe it was something like 15.7%

And I can confirm like it’s ridiculous

[hollow flume]

I did a sim and it would be 14% increase for me

[dusky yacht]

Just try and make sure you do rotation right and pray for 4p drop, spend catalysts on hero if you can

[torn tide]

dw im probably worse lolol

[shrewd shadow]

how tf does imexile's ui look like this

[alpine wraith]

what is wrong with that

[sharp ravine]

Everything you want to see is here

Look like a nice UI

[dusky yacht]

Mine is similar altho I use the blizz ui but with NSRT for alerts I think it’s called

[shrewd shadow]

no it looks amazing

[torn tide]

maybe he meant "how tf do i get mine to look like this"

[shrewd shadow]

I dont know how he is doing that with the addon restrictions. it looks legit like weak auras

[torn tide]

cuz its so peak

[dusky yacht]

Northern Sky Raid Tools

My guild uses it

It has auras kind of

[sharp ravine]

ArcUI

Mine like that

[dusky yacht]

God that’s hot

[shrewd shadow]

is tha an entire UI suite?

[dusky yacht]

I should look into it

[shrewd shadow]

that an entire*

Cause i dont need an entire suite, just the cd manager

cause blizz default gives me a migraine

[sharp ravine]

You can activate only CDM

[shrewd shadow]

ty love you

[sharp ravine]

And track pot, trinket etc

Pretty much whatever have an ID can be tracked

[dusky yacht]

But I think I will see about getting arc ui it looks clean

Elvui seemed too complicated for me

[shrewd shadow]

do you have your arc UI profile?

[sharp ravine]

Le me see if that's even a thing

[tranquil sorrel]

So to make sure I have 5 stacks of shadow techniques before my next dance+Sectec combo, I should just auto attack up to 5 stacks and not do anything else?

for the AA minmax

[dusky yacht]

Basically get 5 combopoints if trickster and IDEALLY backstab one more time at 5 shadow tech stacks to proc AA then send it

Sorry mac

Max

Max combopoints

My brain bro wtf

[tranquil sorrel]

or shadowstrike no?

I guess it allows you to min max the amount of time in dance

[sharp ravine]

Can't ss as you are not in dance

[tranquil sorrel]

Yeah

been shadowstriking in dance but im realising thats wasting a whole global in dance

[sharp ravine]

Dm as the string is large af

[dusky yacht]

But like don’t hold sectec dance just to get AA

If you didn’t manage it then fk it

Can happen

[hollow flume]

Btw, when in shadowblades (or just shadowdance) - should I always try to proc secret arts? like let's say it is in AOE, I already spent my supercharged on secret technique and a supercharged black powder - I get max combo points but no secret technique - should I shuriken storm to proc ancient technique to use on a non super charged black powder? or just always spent the combo points and if ancient technique procs it's a bonus?

[dusky yacht]

Ancient arts, my personal answer is yes if you wanna min max

[hollow flume]

okay, so always try to use finishers with ancient arts, even if at max combo points in burst windows - but in AOE, do i shuriken or shadowblade to gather more Shadow Techniques?

[sharp ravine]

You want to AA only supercharged

Dps wise

[dusky yacht]

But I always AA in dance and it’s great, but I guess you don’t have to

Like idk the diff

[grizzled hornet]

He is using Atrocity UI, in case you are interested in obtaining it

[sharp ravine]

It's minmax, you are losing 0.x% dps, Fuu prob have the number

[dusky yacht]

Right

[manic salmon]

sick ass gameplay

[tranquil sorrel]

its a bit more work than you guys let on tho

[manic salmon]

use builder even if you are on max

[dusky yacht]

Glenn moment to do the thing that gains you <1% dps

[manic salmon]

love blizzard

[hollow flume]

ah so ... it is not really wroth it for my noob self

[tranquil sorrel]

cause you gotta stop using abilities for 5 seconds prior to entering dance to build stacks

[dusky yacht]

Prolly not

[tranquil sorrel]

anjd thats annoying af

[dusky yacht]

Getting the rest right is more important

Focus on basics first

[sharp ravine]

Just chill and auto attack c:

We are doing no dmg outside of dance anyway

[dusky yacht]

I kinda enjoy the downtime now lmao

It’s like my li’l moment

Look at me

Tickling this boss

Stabby stabby uwu

[keen dome]

prime pun posting time

[dusky yacht]

Arrived at airport brb

[sharp ravine]

Watching energy reach 70 to backstab and do 4000 dmg c:

[dusky yacht]

Don’t worry guys I’m dpsing hehe haha

[tranquil sorrel]

how long before sectec is off cd do you guys start building stacks?

[sharp ravine]

4-5s

[tranquil sorrel]

aight thats what i been doing

[vale pine]

there is a consumable comparison copy/pasta in #tc-research if you want to compare options

[brisk onyx]

I discovered that this thing can achieve 100% special jump moves

for ne,ve,be

[molten citrus]

wut

[keen dome]

Haha, does it give a secret +1 luck?

[brisk onyx]

ye maybe

[keen dome]

huge

[molten citrus]

does it count as an emb tho

[vale pine]

nope

[keen dome]

no, it's the remove an embelihsment item

[vale pine]

you can put it on any item

[keen dome]

Engineers make them 'cos Griftah is on holiday I guess

[waxen matrix]

outside of Blades. Do we wanna Dance --> Coup ---> Strike --> SecTec here? or wait for SecTec?

[keen dome]

It SHOULD be +3 sparkle though, but blizz didn't wanna be funny.

[vale pine]

secret first

[molten citrus]

+67 sparkle

[keen dome]

DF was +1! TWW was +2!

But now we're back to +1.

It sucks.

[molten citrus]

the problems that stem from stat squishes

[keen dome]

They squished our sparkles

[waxen matrix]

am i rude to ask why? :P

[vale osprey]

You build to full CP and then you enter with macro SD + ST

So you immediately supercharge SecTec and can fit every global in dance

[waxen matrix]

yeah but we get 2 super charge points. so my sectec will still be Super'd 2nd

[sharp ravine]

You want it asap

[dusky yacht]

Thank you fuu ❤️

[vale osprey]

Because you desync dance and sectec CDs otherwise

[sharp ravine]

As Blade is, coming back

[vale osprey]

And in a fight you want as many sectecs as you can

[vale pine]

you are not, you want to use secret as soon as possible, and it wasn't a gain to use it in the way discribed

just for reference

[waxen matrix]

SecTec will be pressed as soon as its up with Supercharge

[vale pine]

it was a gain to do so in pre patch

without apex

so the apex talents shift it more towards secret first

its not that relevant between major cd's tho

a lot of the value of doing so is in having the highest chance to fit multiple secrets

[vale osprey]

Yeah because you get enough secret technique stacks to sectec, strike (proc AA), Evis (coup)

Which procs

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hoary bloom]

Is it a dmg loss to not macro sd and techniques ? I’ve been doing it manually

[sharp ravine]

No but you have more chance to lose a GCD at the end of dance

[vale pine]

the aa optimization is also easier to do with secret first, ye

[waxen matrix]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1490621019143012443/image.png?ex=69d4b881&is=69d36701&hm=bfd694acc52bd19c0e8d8e7a26e927641e8b73cd3f5a977679e96c6f5a8d28bc&

So here (ignore Blades), its best to spam Backstab and wait. i assume i dont send naked Coup... right?

[vale osprey]

You just have a chance to lose a global to manual error so there's no really any reason to not macro

[sharp ravine]

Send backstab over 65 energy and don't send GCD if Sectec coming in this GCD but yes

[vale osprey]

If you're going to end up below 30 energy as sectec comes off cd you wouldn't even stab 🙃

[waxen matrix]

yeah gotcha

[vale osprey]

Just sit there poking boss

[waxen matrix]

haha 👍

[sharp ravine]

If short on energy you want to wait for 5 stack of shadow techniques before using backstab

[waxen matrix]

Farm the AA proc then send the dance+SecTec u mean right?

[sharp ravine]

Yes

It give you one more GCD in dance

[void ocean]

!addon

[vale osprey]

You don't really even need to farm

[void ocean]

!addons

goddamn it

whats the command xD

[vale osprey]

Because secret technique gives SHT stacks

[dusky yacht]

Yeah just kinda get 5 combopoints and stand there auto attacking while looking ~fabulous~ then backstab at 5 shadowtech stacks and prepare to pop tf off boy lets gooo

Not 5

Max

My god can I stop doing that

[sharp ravine]

Ex Assa player ?

[dusky yacht]

My brain is in tbc and yes I respecced from assa weekend before last

Also slept 1 hr and now finally at airport after … 4 hours or so of travel

[waxen matrix]

SHT? i cant find the abbreviation

[sharp ravine]

SHadow technique

[dusky yacht]

Shadow Tech-

We racing bro

[waxen matrix]

ohh right right

[vale osprey]

(SH)adow (T)echniques

[waxen matrix]

👍 tyty

[void ocean]

it gives u shit stacks

[dusky yacht]

Not to be confused with SHIT

[vale osprey]

(S)he (S)hit himself

[sharp ravine]

[vale osprey]

Or whatever that copypasta was

[dusky yacht]

And thus we have de-escalates into madness once again

Welcome to the Rogue discord

https://tenor.com/view/buckle-up-hold-on-get-in-fear-and-loathing-in-las-vegas-gif-13669565

Best fking vape sesh + coffee of my life

Airport vibes I’m here 3 hours early

[sharp ravine]

Missed my last plane as I like to go there 40 min before departure

Chilling IRL too

[dusky yacht]

Damn

You like to live dangerously

https://tenor.com/view/austin-powers-dangerously-gif-20939086

Shit my battery is at 25%

I talk too much wtf

[wintry blaze]

do i pull shadow dance charges for SB?

[tribal blade]

lura is so fucking hard, honestly grats to whoever kills it first

[sharp ravine]

No

Shouldnt had too

[wintry blaze]

pool*

[tribal blade]

if you do not have enough dance charges delay blades

[dusky yacht]

I was watching the attempts and and genuinely wtf

[tribal blade]

yeah it's a crazy boss

[dusky yacht]

‘Constellation’ i’m like excuse me

[wintry blaze]

so i want to have both charges on SD when i use SB?

[tribal blade]

you need 1 charge

and like 10ish seconds on 2nd

maybe more like 8

[wintry blaze]

is there any reason for that?

sounds oddly specific 😄

[tribal blade]

your 2nd charge will be cding during the 1st on blades

[wintry blaze]

ahh i c

[tribal blade]

reading twitch chat backseat wipes as if they could have done better

is so infuriating

[dusky yacht]

These are the people wiping us in 10 keys 100%

also time for airport cheeseburger and nuggets

[copper ravine]

hi, do you guys have any recommendations for 3rd craft?

or not craft at all?

[tribal blade]

depends on your gearing situation and how many myth crests you're sitting on vs. availability to get myth track pieces

obv if you're not in a mythic raiding guild you can easily craft

[copper ravine]

well not raiding in mythic so 🙂

I meant what piece tbh

[vagrant fossil]

That also depends on which items you have

[alpine wraith]

you can choose between pants belt wrist a ring or a neck

[copper ravine]

alright

thanks ❤️

got the idea

[keen dome]

Wrists is a comfy slot

[dry flame]

My problem is I have haste on all 3 crafts and I'm way over cap for sub

But it's good for the other specs

[keen dome]

Just a litte extra stabbing speed

[dry flame]

If I get AA ring, it will be better

I'll be breaking the ring-2-set

But way more mastery and balance

[keen dome]

the 2-ring set does decent dam, it's nice

Consistently 1% in the keys I've been doing.

UNLIKE THE SNOT TRINKET

[dry flame]

Yeah, 1st world problems i know

[keen dome]

Congratulations snot trinket you are as strong as instant poison

[dry flame]

Biggest upgrade will be to not have champ track offhand

[keen dome]

I really hope I get a new passive trinket soon

19 agility seems to make it a beter choice than crucible but lol

[dry flame]

If nobody has used my bricked lockout for Vorasius, might try to get a group going before reset

[keen dome]

I believe

[dry flame]

I pray for gaze in vault

I have 1 myth vault slot

[keen dome]

I believe in mythic gaze

[dry flame]

I'm still on the voidstorm renown trinket xD

I think myth gaze simmed +2-3k dps

For me

[fallow glade]

i was praying for the guidon but got a gaze instead

[vale pine]

same, its quite good

[fallow glade]

this week ill pray for double gaze so vault gives me a guidon instead

[keen dome]

Haha

I dunno what I want from vault since I have no mythic raid slots. I guess a mythic tier slot that isn't legs would be nice or a dagger with mastery on it

[dry flame]

I don't want Guidon anymore, I'm fine in my puzzle box prison

[keen dome]

Heroic plume would be nice but also taking a third heroic item would make me annoyed

[fallow glade]

stockholm syndrome

[keen dome]

oh, actually, the mythic rings would own

[dry flame]

Literally what I was typing xD

[keen dome]

probably taking those regardless of the other options if they show up

[dry flame]

Listen, 289 puzzlebox is whispering to me

Like King Canute's father

[fallow glade]

at reset i was still using a m0 puzzlebox, so even the heroic plumes were simming better

at least i managed to pull a heroic one now

[keen dome]

I have been blessed with puzzle and guidon (champ)

I hate puzzle

I'm going to kill mythic imperator and win a guidon

I've decided it's happening.

[dry flame]

I support your decision

Kill Vorasius for dagger too, my group left after 2 pulls

[keen dome]

I'm doubtful they'll kill but who knows.

[hardy snow]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[keen dome]

Boss 1 doesn't seem hard at all

But lol lmao pugs

[dry flame]

It was harder with dps check last week

Now everyone is geared and on 4 set

[keen dome]

Yeah

that was my thinking. Just dispel randomness is the only real issue I forsee

Well, and the typical pug issue of people trying to do Mythic boss 1 without understanding normal mechanics

[granite bear]

guys what are u crafting 3. slot

just any low itemlvl?

[keen dome]

I'll probaby craft bracers after reset

[dry flame]

I crafted neck early cuz mine was veteran track with shit stats

Probably could've done wrists, but have hero track from AA

[solemn hedge]

do we use slice and dice in any situation?

[alpine wraith]

sometimes on downtime from pulls

or if a boss is going to go away for a while

[short radish]

killed it on my paladin and guidon dropped 🙂

[keen dome]

Naturally

[celest spruce]

What is the purpose of holding the second shadow dance during opener for 3-4 extra seconds? Why not pop it instantly on like 0:10?

[tribal vortex]

you want to either supercharge ST or cast it in the final 8 secs of SB

[celest spruce]

But you can do both right without holding dance like that

[short radish]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[celest spruce]

Hmm okay, so just hold 2nd dance until 8s left of blades?

[sharp ravine]

Depend

But mostly yes

[celest spruce]

I have Guidon + 4-set

What would it depend on other than that?

[karmic harbor]

This made no sense to me either, but in opener I can get a 2nd supercharged sectec that dance also lasts in blades

[fathom adder]

if BL is active it usually works out for me to double dance double sectec. If i do not have BL i usually just do double dance + blades with sectec in the first dance, second dance without sectec and the third dance that is coming up as soon as the second one ends has the supercharged sectec again

idk if thats still how you do it, just read it here during prepatch and rolled with it

[sharp ravine]

Fight mostly

[tribal vortex]

I think you have an issue with this when blades are coming up the second time

[keen steppe]

How much gain is playing around apex?

[sharp ravine]

~1%

[old valley]

kind of warmed up discussion, but maybe someones (still) here to help.
My sim always pushes me below 600 haste, probably due to what Riltro said. Having been Assa only for the last tiers I'm drilled to only do what sim says - this confuses me right now. Is the sim for sub not 100% to be trusted? Like do I have to watch out not to drop below 680ish haste and sim around that?

[versed sun]

How on earth do we track the buff from Guidon?!

Can't get it added to anything it just tracks cooldown

[alpine wraith]

think someone named ayile or something like that made a cdm where it works

but still have to check it may make a video about it

[versed sun]

i've been using ArcUI

I probably best switch to Ayile

[tribal blade]

holy shit huge pull by echo

finally hit P4

[void ocean]

is anyone using Enhance QoL and if u do do u track TFD, none of spell ids i tried didnt work

[vale osprey]

Yes basically this

[small vortex]

just play off vibes honestly

[vale osprey]

Sim is a robot so can hit the extra global with ~580 haste

[small vortex]

get to your desirable haste and go whatever gives mastery/crit

[dusky yacht]

Why am I not on dis crying noises

[tribal blade]

to supercharge sectec

[dusky yacht]

And wait for guidon?

I think

[dry flame]

i use EQoL yep

TFD?

first dance?

[void ocean]

ye

[dry flame]

pretty sure its tracked by default CDM

i just got home, can log and check

[void ocean]

its not

[quartz tartan]

hello does this only applies on your opener (Optimization: Tier set 4p bonus in combination with Light Company Guidon Light Company Guidon:
Delaying your second Shadow Dance cast during Shadow Blades is beneficial. Use Shadow Dance once Shadow Blades has 8 seconds of duration left) ??

[void ocean]

or im blind

but i cant see it

[lilac stag]

It’s not

[dry flame]

yeah i just logged to check, its not

strange, because I think ive seen it appear on my CDM

[dusky yacht]

Applies every time guidon, shadow blades and sectec + 1 charge of dance and 10 sec left on recharge of second charge of dance roughly

Are all up

[atomic bobcat]

around how much we lose if we dont time guidon before dance? i see imexile in the raid always with 5-6 sec dance, and if u time its 8 sec(considering hes ~18% haste)

[dusky yacht]

Is he using guidon? If so, he may be focusing on the super difficult mechanics more than the trinketuse

[atomic bobcat]

ye probably, it seems he clicks it manualy before, but 0.2 after he uses macro of all, and dance still isnt updated

probably mechs

[dusky yacht]

Yeah

Also he may be doing things related to the mechs specifically that we don’t really understand yet or won’t ever because we are not at that level where weird plays may randomly be super good

[atomic bobcat]

ofc, thats always crossing my mind, making me think maybe me focusing on trinket is dps loss 🙂

[dusky yacht]

Like ‘I need more autos for ST here’ pops trinket lol

shrug

I mean just pop the trinket with blades bit before ideally and like pop cooldowns to burst when it matters not the moment stuff is off cooldown, no point if you then have to panic mid burst cause you fked up

[atomic bobcat]

i started playing it like box , on 2sec pull i click and stealth, then going normal rotation

only lose is shroud for all

[lilac stag]

Strike. Hit trinket. Count to one, press blades+dance+sectech

Not much to it.

[atomic bobcat]

tried this also, seems my burst loses around 40k like this

[lilac stag]

[dusky yacht]

Your burst the first few seconds doesn’t matter as much as you think

Hold on

This is my damage done/time graph for vorasius mythic rank 28/world parse, 98%/99% ilvl, notice how my burst is not instant.

Was I behind for the first few seconds? Yes.

I ended like 6k dps and like 1mil+ dmg ahead of 2nd on the meters.

You can have your first few seconds on the meters, it’s like starting a race in first. Does it matter if I beat you to the finish line?

Smooth operator~

[atomic bobcat]

do you add shuriken in every dance on ST? the sim does it

[tribal blade]

there's no shot casting it 2 seconds before pull timer is more dps

[dusky yacht]

I do not. I prepare for sectec dance with AA, I always proc AA before finishers in dance whenever possible, with the exception of second sectec sometimes

I never shuriken on ST, but I play trickster, not deathstalker.

I believe that optimisation is a deathstalker thing.

[atomic bobcat]

ye im trying stuff, still not sure. but it updates the first two dances

[tribal blade]

seems a bit overcomplicated, just use it normally 😉

1 sec before 1st dance during blades

[lilac stag]

Have you realized which channel you’re in?

[dusky yacht]

That it does, but I wouldn’t like the inconsistency between the tanks pulling after cd timer. It is never exact, it would make me feel pressured and awkward. Infact, I sometimes get taken out of stealth (for no reason tbh?) when they pull if I don’t SS fast enough. I think the first SS is pretty important, so I tricks the MT (first tank) and focus on the SS.

[tribal blade]

lol true

[dusky yacht]

Also if you use guidon too early

I think it de-syncs the blades and trinket cooldowns to some extent

It’s already desynced by 1sec~ IDEALLY

So I would rather not desync it more like idk

Plane taking off gtg

[keen dome]

hell yeah

Not a single guidon

[dry flame]

if mythic lockouts were absolute bullshit, i'd join you for Vora now 🙂

[keen dome]

Yeah, they're such bullshit

[hollow spear]

Why don't you have 15 alts with funnelled gear?

[lilac stag]

Now get Vor down and get it in your vault

[keen dome]

Yeee

[hollow spear]

ez clap

Time to outparse that fraud @dusky yacht

[lilac stag]

Did you join a pug or are you running it?

[keen dome]

I joined one

[lilac stag]

Ah

[keen dome]

The lead is someone I killed other bosses with and just took a chance 'cos they're a competent tank

[fossil forge]

Slide for my nga fimbul

[keen dome]

I don't have the energy to lead atm

[old spindle]

Question. with 700 haste, 4p tier AND guidon. i expect to see duration of shadow blades be around 23 seconds. how come its stuck at 20?

[keen dome]

lmao

[hollow spear]

Why do you expect the duration to be 23 seconds?

[lilac stag]

Nothing changes blades but 4pc

[old spindle]

SHADOW DANCE

dont mind me

[atomic bobcat]

haste shorten sectec and adds time to dance

[lilac stag]

How are you going from 6 seconds to 23 seconds?

[old spindle]

misunderstanding sorry xD

i had it in my head that deepening shadows extended blades. its dance

[hollow spear]

Amateur!

[old spindle]

im trying to analyze if im waiting long enough between using the trinket and dancing

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[hollow spear]

Make sure that your deepening shadows is bugged so you don't get haste-scaled dances

And you can easily beat me

[keen dome]

I'm doubtful we'll kill it

[dry flame]

just jump forward and give boss a kiss

[lilac stag]

Reload early. Reload often.

[tribal blade]

wait is that a real thing

[hollow spear]

Check your logs to see whether the first dance after trinkets is 8.X or 7.X seconds long. If it's the latter, you didn't time it right.

[dry flame]

Well, yesterday we did TWO pulls, got it to 17% and after a guy DC-ed mid pull, half the raid left (because that makes sense)

[keen dome]

Damn, maybe then

[dry flame]

so, i have more hopes for u

[keen dome]

This group has okay damage except for me, so

[tribal blade]

that's fucking tragic

also people in twitch chat are some of the dumbest people i have ever seen

[hollow spear]

I should have recorded my face when that happened

[keen dome]

I'm the only rogue so if double daggers drop it could be comedy time

[tribal blade]

make sure everyone goes ST

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/birdman-ready-hand-rub-lets-get-it-im-ready-gif-4886318

[tribal blade]

vor is not a cleave fight

[red flame]

being the only rogue is truly living the dream experience

[keen dome]

I'm not leading, but that's good info

[tribal blade]

ah ok

btw if you're not meeting the dps check

have a few people stay on boss and not deal with addds

[keen dome]

Yeah

I might sit the bsos regardless 'cos lol

Unless there is an add on me

[hollow spear]

Add health is low

[keen dome]

Yeah

[hollow spear]

Overfocusing on them sacrifices so much boss damage

[keen dome]

We also have a lot of good swap classes

[hollow spear]

assa?

Rogue needs bloodlust

The amount of groups I don't even apply to is insane

4 non-lust classes

[lilac stag]

I had to swap since some of our range was shocking not swapping

[hollow spear]

Can't be real

Range are always swapping

[lilac stag]

rik flashbacks

[hollow spear]

That's my personal 'nam moment

[sweet moss]

what this even mean

[hollow spear]

check the last image I have posted

[keen dome]

guess what happened

[sweet moss]

yeah what about it

[lilac stag]

rik was like 45 pulls of me and our DH killing the ranged adds

[keen dome]

Guess I'm swapping to adds

75% on the first breath though so hm

[hollow spear]

I mean, read the sentence and look at the picture

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/war-vietnam-ptsd-shell-shock-moment-gif-3022747568394546158

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/love-you-gif-15700259977085623834

[hollow spear]

I was always out of step charges and had to limp back to the boss

[red flame]

only time i swap to adds is if i can pad w storm + bp
dont usually swap tho unless specific instances

[lilac stag]

That’s the only way you could do it unless you just skipped the melee adds

[keen dome]

Pug rules typically mean you do everything you can even if i'ts suboptimal haha

[wise fulcrum]

is there any benefit to tracking blades duration or will it just stress me out?

[keen dome]

like on the Imperator kill I saved my final set of cooldowns for the 5th add spawn 'cos we kept wipgint o it

[hollow spear]

If only DS was good

[lilac stag]

Then you’d get like 3-4 pulls where the elemental sham swapped, then they’re not getting killed again.

https://tenor.com/view/vietnam-flashback-traumatized-cat-gif-7852054576948114551

[hollow spear]

That's pretty much 15 second cdr during each dance window

[sweet moss]

how do u make sure that ur deepening is bugged lol

[hollow spear]

Why would you want that?

[red flame]

macro everything together

xd

[sweet moss]

what u yappin about then colo

[hollow spear]

dude

do you understand sarcasm

do I have to spell it out for you?

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/the-smartest-predator-real-science-an-iq-too-high-gif-2180560086852266128

[sweet moss]

🥲

[tribal blade]

yes very important to track it

[lilac stag]

understanding sarcasm in the multi lingual text channel.

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-no-expectations-david-acosta-evil-e-is-for-elevator-i-expect-nothing-gif-22367966

[hollow spear]

yeah but the bug was obviously to our disadvantage

[lilac moss]

ANYONE HAVE A 'THE FIRST DANCE' TRACKERRRR?

[hollow spear]

why would you want that to happen

[lilac stag]

to bitch at the devs more!

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/kizaru-borsalino-admiral-marines-shades-gif-10682292755083267442

sandbag the rogues

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/sand-swing-and-miss-nice-gif-20891305

[tribal blade]

that interaction:
-flagus askes "how do you make sure" instead of "how do you make sure it's not"

• colo answers sarcastically to his incorrectly worded question
• flagus suddenly goes on the attack

i'll be writing my dissertation on this

[lilac stag]

words are hard

Just like using guidon

and losing 40k in opener

[lilac stag]

Every day we edge closer and closer to #outlaw

[keen dome]

Mistakes were made

Damage is kinda there I guess.I imagine you want at least 33% or more per cycle

[tribal blade]

yo ho yo ho the pirate's life is NOT for me

[river stag]

quick question regarding haste breakpoint:
Any reason simcraft doesn't prioritize reaching that whatsoever for me? like im simming enchants/gems/crafted stats without the phoenix oil but the weathstone and my best optimal setup is like 15.6 % haste. no guidon (or whatever that trinket is called).

[lilac stag]

because your not close to getting the extra gcd so it says fuck off with that

get 4pc, get trinket, get haste

[keen dome]

assigning sides for people to stack on Voraius with adds seems fruitless

[void ocean]

bro did u have situations that ur resources go crazy after swapping specs

like its driving me up the wall

[lilac stag]

Nah it makes it easier. Everyone defaults to one and you adjust if one add needs to swap

[void ocean]

god i hate all these addons

[lilac stag]

vs 5 randoms going anywhere

[keen dome]

For a pug I don't think it does.

[lilac stag]

The struggle will be keeping them close to the wall

[hollow spear]

I'll be honest and say that I thought that that question wasn't worded incorrectly

[keen dome]

Y e p

[tribal blade]

who knows tbh

[short radish]

HOLY SHIT ROGUE PUMPING

[hollow spear]

It's literally over for us

no buffs

[short radish]

3.1mill dps

[lilac stag]

That’s where 1+2 left 3+4 right keeps it easy. Then leader can just say Billy go right instead of left.

[short radish]

we're huge

[tribal blade]

real raid buff when

[hollow spear]

Never

[gilded ferry]

assa buffs go live on reset right?

[hollow spear]

Yep

[gilded ferry]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

tomorrow

[tribal blade]

i would kiss you on the mouth if that happened

KISSES FOR EVERYONE

[keen dome]

man I want lunch but it'd be rude to leave this pug right now

[tribal blade]

tell them to kill the boss in the next pull or you're leaving

[keen dome]

We keep wiping to dumb stuff now and I think our damage is miles off anyway

[tribal blade]

btw lura might survive until reset

the way progging that boss has been

i could see it happening

[keen dome]

If Echo can't kill it today then yeah

[tribal blade]

it's just so hard to get through the fight to P4

and then P4 looks insane in it's own way

[keen dome]

blessed raid lead going "we go one more pull"

[tribal blade]

lol nice

[keen dome]

the one issue with mythic pugs is the whole being trapped haha

[tribal blade]

OH you're pugging mythic

damn

yeah it blows like that

if the grp can't do enough dmg you're gonna be bashing your head against that boss for a while

[tepid trellis]

we have passion mythic runs

[tribal blade]

are those splits helper runs?

[tepid trellis]

anybody that really wants to can signup

as long as they meet the requirements

[tribal blade]

damn get @keen dome in there next reset

oh @tepid trellis predictions on what happens with lura

[tepid trellis]

dies tonight

[tribal blade]

hot

could happen

just consistent clean P1s

and P3s

[upbeat sorrel]

did they get more secret phase pulls in?

i stopped watching after they saw it the first time

[keen dome]

Yep. And it's why I can't just up and leave.

[tribal blade]

i've only seen echo do 1 tonight

[sour valve]

Guys how much critt do you have?

[tribal blade]

sign up for stealthi's splits raid

[keen dome]

oh god that'd be terrifying

[tribal blade]

25%

[sour valve]

This are my stats and I think I have to less kritt

[tribal blade]

i think you'd be fine

[topaz rock]

hi buddies quick question, how do ya'll deal with on use items being shit awkward with Shadowblades/bursts?
Do you just hold on use for when everything lines up, or rip on CD to get more uses? I.e. Puzzlebox/Emberwing Feather

[tribal blade]

treat 2 min trinkets like 3 mins

so use it every other blades

[topaz rock]

makes sense, thank u

[sweet heron]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[little ferry]

Old subwith flagellation ramp would have destroyed those adds that lura spawns in p1

[tribal blade]

S3 TWW sub would probably be one of the strongest specs of this tier

[keen dome]

paladins lol

[tribal blade]

yeah we'd actually destroy that fight

every important fight this tier you can see S3 sub absolutely demolishing

[left ledge]

That’s only because of flag

Rip flag

The goat

[tepid trellis]

eh think the biggest thing would be nimble

[left ledge]

Rip my damage

[tribal blade]

flag, old nimble

and x2 coup

[left ledge]

We got nerfed by like 2000%

And got attack speed

Riperino

[tribal blade]

x2 coup with nimble would be absolutely smashing

[left ledge]

Yeah our cleave was actually crazy

Shit got taken out back

[tribal blade]

nimble with current strike dmg

godDAMN

echo P3 wipe

[left ledge]

I mean based off the tuning pass we just got

I don’t think they want sub to do good

Or rogue for that matter

[tribal blade]

they see sub is mid in the raid

and therefore doesn't need tuning

[lilac stag]

Nimble would instantly make sub better. Flag wouldn’t have near the impact.

[left ledge]

Yeah

We know their mentality towards these things

[crystal bone]

i think the problem is rogue is doing good in keys, but how do u buff them without making them op in keys?

[left ledge]

They’re not good in keys

Sub is the only one that can try to compete in dps

[little ferry]

Assa post buffs will be good in keys

[lilac stag]

Fix nimble. Lower BP by 2%

[tribal blade]

yeah removing strike and evis from nimble put us back to our old classic cleave problem