subtlety

[silk fiber]

I ran vessel for 2 weeks. You just grab orbs???

it was just a lower level one and I got Alnseer

[fleet wharf]

I feel the spawnrate/uptime on orbs kind of sucks

[swift tinsel]

It does

[void ocean]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[swift tinsel]

Spawn rate was very streaky for me anecdotally

[olive canyon]

damn it you guys were right - pit is not hard

almost got the 15 after a truly scuffed run

[vast dust]

Raid buffs through poisons could be an idea I could get behind. And expanding poisons and what they do. Build off what we “specialize” in.

quests for special crafted poisons, etc.

[alpine wraith]

where are the shamans man

[onyx skiff]

lads is the haste softcap with or without weapon oils?

[alpine wraith]

cant find them

[swift tinsel]

gotta have a pocket resto/enh shaman

[alpine wraith]

with or without does not matter

just get there

[onyx skiff]

so if you're 17% without oils?

but say 19% with

[hazy breach]

You want ~700 with oils

[silk fiber]

700

not the percent

[swift tinsel]

maybe I reroll enh

[onyx skiff]

right I have some haste to get

[red flame]

Fr pocket rsham + brew is so goated

I do not miss sitting waiting 20mins at a time waiting for tanks

[median canyon]

Maybe a stupid question but can't see any where that mentions it. I know, you always use ST while in SD, but do you only use SD with ST and or SB or can you use SD without them? Seeing as they're both 20 second cd, surely you can freely use 2nd charge of SD in between?

[red flame]

Blades + Trinket -> SD + SecTec -> 2nd SD before SecTec is back up -> SD + SecTec

[sleek socket]

double Acuity of the Ren'dorei right?

[red flame]

2nd SD should still benefit from like 1-4secs of SB depending how fast you are

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[red flame]

Acuity MH & Arcane Mastery OH

[sleek socket]

its matter if i have racne on mh and acuity on oh? cuz farstrider was offhand but now with myth crest its main again

[red flame]

Tbh I have no clue abt that specifically

Maby? Ik it matters which hand a DK has runeforges on

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter at all

You can have 2 acuity too if you want

[red flame]

Oh dope learn something new every day

That’s just what the wowhead guide says

[sleek socket]

kk ty

[median canyon]

Okay, thank you.

[barren haven]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[manic salmon]

Spec is garbage fire (天赋是垃圾火), Key bricked by your presence (钥匙因你而碎), M+ score fake like plastic (分数是假的), Instant decline by all leader (秒拒), Go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure (去玩凯蒂猫).

[median canyon]

What about when Blades is on cd, SecTec is on CD but you've got a charge of SD; can it be used, only as long as it's ready again by the time SecTec is on, right?

[hazy breach]

No reason to

[median canyon]

I thought it would be extra damage as SS hits harder than BS?

[hazy breach]

Well yes but then youll be out of shadow dances for your blades

[median canyon]

Okay! So literally only use SD with Tec or with Tec and Blades?

[hazy breach]

yes

[median canyon]

Okay! Thank you

[manic salmon]

a good way to think about this is

[tepid trellis]

@hazy breach my content while my guild is doing mythic

BATCHEST

[manic salmon]

having dances for shadowblades = bomboclat

not having dances for shadowblades = mi bombo

[hazy breach]

[median canyon]

Fucking Bomboclat 🤣 🤣 Thats funny

[manic salmon]

i know right

hilarious even

[valid tartan]

wagwan chicken nugget shadow dance

[median canyon]

Imma think of that every time I pop cds now ffs.. thanks. 🤣 🤣

[manic salmon]

six bomba shadow pussy bladclat dances

[sick jackal]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[remote rapids]

with the Guidon trinket in the opener do you hold the second dance for sectec or just dance+tec then dance, maybe strike then sectec?

[cosmic anvil]

260 ilvl rough dps in m+ what’s everyone pulling?

[oblique fable]

depends on how the tank pulls

[latent plover]

for the whole dungeon overall or just packs?

[cosmic anvil]

Overall

Just roughly

[latent plover]

Kinda depends on how the tanks pulling but I've been getting about 105k-120k overall dps

doing +10s at 265

[cosmic anvil]

What’s your ilvl?

Max I’ve got is 105k

But floating 90 usually

For overall
I can’t seem to get more, I do 450k for a bit on a pull at 260 ilvl

Just want to see if I’m where i should be feel like I can’t do anymore haha

[latent plover]

see, for some fucking reason for me, I'm doing about 105k-110k dps overall as trickster, but 120k overall as deathstalker

and i hate deathstalker

[cosmic anvil]

Hmmm, yeh that’s odd

How’s your big rotation opener

[latent plover]

I think I just suck at managing my shit as trickster tbf

i suck at the game so makes sense

[cosmic anvil]

I try shadow strike into puzzle then set up my dance

[latent plover]

ah i'm running Emberwing Feather atm

[cosmic anvil]

I must be doing soemthing wrong

I can’t get more than 100 as 260 ilvl

[latent plover]

It is heavily dependent on size of pulls and party as well

[keen dome]

Yeah, that's about the same as I end up depending on dungeon. Sameish ilevel, too.

[latent plover]

Also, sometimes I run with my friend who is an aug evoker and I'm doing like an extra 30-40k a pull which is nice

[swift tinsel]

makes it all worth it

[tepid trellis]

as 264 i was pulling anywhere between 120k and 170k depending on the dungeon

[keen dome]

hell yeah.

[uncut hinge]

you have to be willing to take full advantage of our damage profile. black powder isnt all we can do to be important damage on a pack. sometimes its better to do less overall but kill a lt mob 20 seconds earlier because you st it down

[keen dome]

[swift tinsel]

made a new tank friend lfg

and got cata charge first dungeon of the day

[keen dome]

Nice

i've spent most of the day doing this:

Just so many DPS applying to every key.

[swift tinsel]

barf

yeah I listed one of mine before and even as a caverns I got fuckin bombarded

[keen dome]

Yep

Nothing can be done except running your own / with a group. Just gotta keep applying.

[swift tinsel]

yeah thankfully guild is super active atm, will taper off in a couple months so I'm enjoying it while I can lol

[gray bobcat]

Rogue do low damage (ローグの攻撃はゴミ). same parse as arms war (パース赤、戦士と同じ). Bring shame to guild (ギルドの恥). M+ instant decline. (招待拒否). I stand in city like NPC.

[hollow spear]

Caverns is my best key rn, unfortunately

[keen dome]

Yeah, this season is making me want an actual group / guild to do content with more than any other. Not even because of Rogue but Crown is very tedious to pug prog.

[swift tinsel]

rogue might be my keys toon, possibly getting the go-ahead to main swap for raid without forfeiting loot

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[swift tinsel]

told one of the officers about the whole dance snapshot delay shit and they were laughing

[keen dome]

Maybe it's time I cease to be a puglord and actually become a proglord.

[swift tinsel]

I did and my gameplay experience improved dramatically

[hollow spear]

New character arc unlocked

[swift tinsel]

if nothing else it (ideally) adds consistency

[keen dome]

However I do not believe in inherited monarchy so I will become a progloteriat

[misty condor]

Getting people to hit the void elementals with only ONE arrow is like pulling teeth

[keen dome]

Right???

I talked about it earlier and P1 Crown in pugs is just Ansurek 2.0

Except P2 isn't free like Ansurek and P3 is a really brutal DPS check for pugs right now so I think Crown is harder (for pugs)

[void ocean]

guys why cant we see the number of deaths in the key on that default plate anymore

is that some settings or smth

[keen dome]

It's not tracked below 5 anymore

[void ocean]

oooh

[keen dome]

But above that it should display unless it's bugging out

This goes until.. +6 I think? As in at +6 it goes away.

It's a really good idea to try and smooth out people getting into keys and learning them imo.

[void ocean]

aye

[keen dome]

Although there is the flipside that people don't learn the important lessons because death doesn't reduce time but eh

[swift tinsel]

baby steps lol

[keen dome]

It's a good idea and their execution isn't the worst, esp highlighting stuff for routing.

[deft seal]

hey guys first timer playing wow retail on sub rogue atm 71. not sure what to pick the hero talents any suggestions?

[swift tinsel]

kinda wish the game had a built-in route planner but it would probs be as effective as the default damage meter

[keen dome]

Trickster for Sub, but you can try both and swap between them as you want.

[void ocean]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[keen dome]

Hopefully this comes in the future.

Put it in the journal

[swift tinsel]

or even just showing % on the nameplate

or target frame, etc

[keen dome]

Yeah, that needs to exist

[swift tinsel]

somewhere

[west bluff]

the meter is a joke, completely diferent from reality, all 5 in the same dungeon saw different results

[swift tinsel]

we've had a handful of pulls already where we aren't sure how much count we're gonna get

[craggy sable]

is here a very very good sub? i run around 95% logs and want to upgrade my dps - maybe a rotation issue - someone can help with some extra tips? PM me - have logs

[keen dome]

You could have a look at lorgg's and see when people are popping stuff

[swift tinsel]

alright time for morning +10 miasara pugging

[keen dome]

Godspeed on getting into the groups

[misty condor]

the built in dps meter is so much worse than details was, I hate it so much

[swift tinsel]

I have my own key for it but I do not trust pugs with it so I'm rolling the dice and hoping I get lucky lol

[keen dome]

haha yeah

[swift tinsel]

there's been some...special experiences in that dungeon in particular haha

[keen dome]

Protip: put stuff in your note

My experince on getting invites is always higher when I put something in the note

[swift tinsel]

ye I've been throwing stuff like "4pc and I bring snacks" and stuff like that lol

[void ocean]

like 5k gold

[keen dome]

I put "I have a cat called purrcival and he goes beep"

And then I show them purrcival when they invite me and he goes beep

[red flame]

So real

[red flame]

Yep just like the CDM vs making your own WA’s to track buffs/debuffs

We really had it all

[little tapir]

I always get invited when i put random stuff in note

My first key of the season was a +11 skyreach

First group i asked to join

My note was « knows what’s up »

[valid tartan]

my go to is "hung"

[sleek socket]

how bad is to enchant on ring haste cuz i miss a bit, instead of the eye of the eagle the 1% effective crit? (and what does the effective crit does?)

[celest ice]

i believe its 1% crit dmg?

[sharp ravine]

Sim yourself

[hazy breach]

Rank 2 is 1.25%

So instead of your crit doing 100 damage, it now does 101.25

[sleek socket]

ho isee

[hazy breach]

Which is different than the crit damage increases on our tree

Like finality makes eviscerate do 215% crit damage instead of 200%, which is a ~7.5% increase, not 15%

Because why be consistent

[alpine wraith]

math is too hard

gotta understand indi compani

[jade urchin]

freedom poggers

[vale pine]

i swear.. this happens every season

[keen dome]

Almost beat two MM hunters in a +10. So close..

[vale pine]

i did a bizillion keys now

and 8 of my slots are still not filled

[keen dome]

🫂

[vale pine]

means, i got 3 usable loot pieces so far

[jade urchin]

i got quite lucky

[vale pine]

doing keys 24/7 since patch is out

[jade urchin]

49 keys total

[keen dome]

I keep getting bracers

Is the game hinting at playable multi-armed races?

[sleek socket]

how do i copy the new code from topgear if i changed the enchat on rings to run quicksim?

[vale pine]

my gf complains how bad her loot is, she has all slots but 2 with the best items from m+

XD

i guess its up to definition

what bad luck is

[valid tartan]

still need multiple pieces, been running keys all day every day since m+ went live, got 1 piece of loot in 2 weeks of raids

[hazy breach]

Press the 3 dots

[jade urchin]

my guild dh keeps reminding me of the buff devourer got compared to rogues

every single key

[vale pine]

🤣

[sleek socket]

i mean im using raidbots right?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[sleek socket]

and its website not addon

[hazy breach]

What

Yes its a website

[steel horizon]

what % of sectec damage do we lose if we cast it without find weakness up?

[sleek socket]

so im in the topgear menu, and i changed the enchant on ring, but then i go to quicksim tab?

[vale pine]

you need the simulationcraft addon

to export your character and gear from the game

then put it in raidbots

[sleek socket]

i did

[hazy breach]

Press the exact thing i linked

[sleek socket]

it got my gear in raidbots

[azure mauve]

max throwing us a bone

[sleek socket]

i need to login to see that options, the website ui dsnt look like that

[hazy breach]

What

No

[tepid trellis]

he lowkey says that rogue does shit dmg with that statement too

[hazy breach]

You do topgear

Then you press these buttons on the thing that sims the highest

(but also idk why you'd need to do a quick sim after doing topgear)

[sleek socket]

im just trying to learn

how to use it

[vale pine]

yep

max basically says

damage is irrelevant, so you can play rogue too

which is wild

[tidal ingot]

Doubt, I almost have the full tier. Does it make a difference?

[keen dome]

Finally, it's my time to shine.

Damage is irrelevant is my middle name.

[brisk onyx]

he's never liked rogues, although that might not be entirely wrong in this rwf lul

[hollow spear]

It's irrelevant when I'm doing shit damage

And very important when I'm flying

[vale pine]

i don't think he disslikes it

its just common sense

[unique sentinel]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[vale pine]

if a class can only be used in the worse raid position

AND is still not tuned well 50% of the time

its always the class you consider dropping the first

[brisk onyx]

It doesn't matter, it would be best if he could @devs

[vale pine]

if blizz wanted rogue to be played, simplest way is to give an insane raid buff

so you would always slot one

[brisk onyx]

That's right. When they gave 5% phjysical to monk, blizz said it was because the monk's population had been consistently low. If they remembered that reason, they should have given the same to the rogue

[zenith wedge]

our raid buff is weird to just feels so off for Rogue we get the DR raid buff

[vale pine]

I mean

Hunter got their raid buff updated to be a flat 3% damage buff

because the first one they got was not good

so the dev team agreed there

[brisk onyx]

Valeera Sanguinar has some cool buff

[vale pine]

for rogue, even antrophic seemed like something that was close to the cutting board

[zenith wedge]

atrophic should give a crit dmg buff and the DR

[sharp ravine]

DR work 10% of the time as most abilities are not "linked" to the boss

[vale pine]

so the design space around rogue

means the dev team is fairly confident of the class to be in a good position

gameplay wise

damage wise

[brisk onyx]

And she can easily achieve 150k DPS

[vale pine]

and raid buff/group utility wise

[vestal relic]

thats crazy to say about rogue

[swift tinsel]

idk if that's the case I do not have an iota of faith in the dev team

[vale pine]

why

[vestal relic]

legit insane take

[vale pine]

we are in this spot for 4+ years now

if it was seen as a problem space

[zenith wedge]

they felt confident enough in our utility to take utility away with aoe blind

[vestal relic]

first of what utility ?

single target stun ?

[vale pine]

not getting any changes for 4 years means its not a problem worth spending time on

[vestal relic]

6 weeks to get back aoe blind ?

[vale pine]

reguardless of how you argue

[brisk onyx]

Interestingly, they had seriously discussed and explained these topics with players regarding DK and Warlock, but they chose to remain silent about the rogue aspects, and it's completely unclear why.

[vale pine]

lets say blizz sees it as a problem

so they put it on the list of things to fix

it would need to be prioritized very low for 4 years

if its that low in priority

then its not a problem

[vestal relic]

raid buff as been the worse one and also the reason why were not in RWF anytime a boss is not affected cause reason

[zenith wedge]

I think they are too stuck in the classic mindset of what rogue utility was which was kick and single target stuns

[teal plaza]

They put what on the list of things to fix?

[bold brook]

But in fairness, outside of how the class works/performs, there does seem to be other factors influencing dev time, i.e player count, maybe in an alternative time line where rogue was most played class, more changes would have been made more often, but a lot of ifs buts and maybes there

[vale pine]

i just try to make a metaphor

[vestal relic]

not saying your wrong but it is a problem

they just choose to ignore it because of the low rogue playyrate

[teal plaza]

My brain is too small for these things

[vestal relic]

which is impart due to low support/change of the spec

which enter a vicious cycle

[fallow nimbus]

Give us our crit&haste buff back and everything is fine

[vale pine]

dk was low population and has been op since 2 xpacs now to drive more players to it, the argument does not hold mathematical prooves

[keen dome]

They should give us a posion toggle where class buffs don't need to be refreshed and are just on........ BUT only if a rogue is in the group

[zenith wedge]

yeah the rogue playrate has like halved since shadowlands

[vale pine]

dk now is fairly popualr

[zenith wedge]

people will play whats meta as long as its not evoker

[brisk onyx]

This theory is not entirely correct, because the declining population of rogues did not occur naturally, but rather due to a lack of attention.

[teal plaza]

I think a big part of rogues issue is how strong they are in pvp. If they get buffed too much in damage or utility, they just become more oppressive in pvp

[vale pine]

pvp is tuned seperately

and not part of pve

[fleet wharf]

mages exist too

[keen dome]

Just give rogue a raid buff (as discussed before, something like 3% crit) and bam, we're back baby.

[zenith wedge]

dont thnk pvp has much impact on pve at all. Dont think the playerbases have large overlap

[vale pine]

pvp has 100% impact on pve

[teal plaza]

The utility does

[vale pine]

even on class design

[zenith wedge]

well that is just silly

[snow jackal]

this ancient arts things shows all the time and only shows a timer on it when it's active. i swear it didn't used to do that and only popped up when it was active (what i want) how did i break it?

[teal plaza]

But like... there's so many things that see through stealth now. Or break stealth. It's actually stupid.

[vale pine]

like, probably not intentional

[zenith wedge]

because wow is not a pvp focused game hasn't been in a long time

[calm wing]

I kinda think rogue is unpopular to due variety of factors, like being a 3 spec dps who is entirely melee and always a builder spender with no variety aswell as being a low fantasy class in a fantasy game where most ppl who dont want a high fantasy characfter just end up playing a warrior anyway

[vale pine]

but blizz needs to keep pvp not too far of pve

so even tho systems exist

to seperate the two entirely

[brisk onyx]

Bro, I don't know how long it's been since you've paid attention to PvP, but PvP has been adjusted independently for a long time now.

[snow jackal]

yeah bro

[vale pine]

it makes sense to not create an entire diffrent class in pvp

[teal plaza]

Rogue thematically shouldn't have a raid buff. I think a debuff like atrophic poison is the right route, but it needs to do more.

[teal plaza]

Bro

[vale pine]

rogue had a raid buff for a while

[calm wing]

wait really ?

[steel spire]

anyone know how to fix this? my secret tech is on cd but bcdm doesnt show it

[mint folio]

Close the discord until buffs

[vale pine]

relogging might help

[steel spire]

its been this way since the tuesday update

[calm wing]

what was it ?

oh you mean the poison it has now 🤦 sorry

[azure mauve]

one of his main chars is rogue

[zenith wedge]

idk feel like they are just lost with rogue, look at sub for this patch they put in that first design got backlash. Then just pruned everything and left it as is.

[vale pine]

i think its difficult for them

basically, everyone who played subtlety expected a specific direction

also a lot of people loved the rework, especially non-subtlety rogue players.

so opinions rly differ

[brisk onyx]

Rogue at least once had raid buffs such as 3% crit/5% physical/10% attack speed/or something I don't remember, throughout wow's long history

[vale pine]

that aside

tuning can always make a spec relevant

so the problem is

the existing playerbase already is split if the direction is good/bad

BUT

midnight also made a executive decision

how classes and specs need to be designed

so it seems like subtlety like it was before is not allowed to exist in modern wow anymore

also keep in mind

tuning plays a central role for perception

[tepid trellis]

quite chill riding the bench as a rogue

i got to catch up on anime

[azure mauve]

i actually think tuning wise rogue is fine right?

[tepid trellis]

from my m+ spam

[azure mauve]

it just the fights sucks for rogue dmg profile

[tepid trellis]

well

only thing rogue has that is "okay"

is its full single target

[misty condor]

Several classes are suffering right now. Arcane and Fire mage have been absolutely dumpstered, especially in terms of defensive profile

[azure mauve]

aoe is pretty good

[plush roost]

Its full aoe in m+ is fine

[arctic pagoda]

they can play frost

[plush roost]

Infact i think sub is kinda good in m+

[azure mauve]

ye

[north schooner]

they obliterated low target cleave for all 3 specs

[plush roost]

Problem is

[fair wedge]

Except they can play frost and mage is more likely to recieve full scale changes before rogue sees a minor tweek 🤣

[plush roost]

I think ret paladin is sub but better in m+

[bleak night]

ye ret is good

[tepid trellis]

only thing sub in m+ lacks is low target cleave and prio dmg

[plush roost]

And has prio damage with ES

[fleet wharf]

healers would not allow a raid comp without an int buff anyway

[bleak night]

new es is wild

[plush roost]

Like why wouldnt u just play ret devour aug

Over rogue dev aug

Rsham is cooked, sub really wants skyfury

[tepid trellis]

abuse mm hunter while its still cooked

[plush roost]

Ele is "okay"

[tepid trellis]

arcane after buffs is also really strong

they do mad AoE dmg too

[teal plaza]

Because that involves playing Ret 🤢

[vale osprey]

I love when I'm blasting a huge pull and I'm miles ahead and then I see a lunar storm hit the mobs and suddenly they're at 800k dps

[alpine wraith]

arcane with the orbs build is

so weird

but fun

[keen dome]

Nah that's nonsense. It should. Everyone should have a raid buff of some form

[lone spear]

Lil question here , since we need 18% haste to squeez another Sec tech in our blades window , with 4p do we lower our haste since it give 4 more seconde to our "second sech tech window" ?

[plush roost]

I think sub needs 2 things if its to become meta this season, its needs haste to become a good aoe stat in someway, so as to not lose aoe, or mastery stack to be on par with haste.

China has adopted the 200 haste pbox tech but it loses a lot of boss dps

[teal plaza]

You misunderstand. It shouldn't be a buff. It should be a debuff (which they already have)

[alpine wraith]

triple engi items with mastery

200 haste trust

[keen dome]

No, I understand. And I'm saying rogue should get a raid buff. Like everyone else has.

[teal plaza]

What buff does DH have?

[fleet wharf]

i mean calling poison effect not a raid buff just feels pedantic

[plush roost]

3% magic dam

[azure mauve]

not everyone has an actual raid buff

[teal plaza]

That's a debuff

[tepid trellis]

nope, still want around 700 haste stat

[azure mauve]

like if we wanna argue over semantics

technically monk and dh dont have a raid abuff

its a debuff

[tough canyon]

got em

[lone spear]

ty

[keen dome]

I don't wanna argue over semantics

[plush roost]

Ig its a perma debuff that doesnt last 12 seconds like atro tho

[bleak flax]

i dont understand why i sit 45 min between each key on +10s ... (meter from +10 pit) ilevel 266 and rio on 2700 ... so dumb , unwanted class it feels like

[keen dome]

Because there are 100,000,000,000,00 DPS applyig to keys

[tough canyon]

approx

[short aurora]

With actual value

[tough canyon]

with a .3 repeating

[keen dome]

It isn't so much you are a Rogue but it is everything to do with there being every single DPS in the world appliyng to that key.

[short aurora]

Like a decurse

[zenith wedge]

no lust no skyfury and you cant lay your hands on people

[short aurora]

Or a buff

[night sparrow]

Rogue doesn't bring anything beside dmg, that's the answer

Shroud sucks

[teal plaza]

Yeah, a 12 second debuff that is basically 100% uptime

[lone spear]

what bout our solid crown control on mages type npc ?

[tough canyon]

good times of triple rogue(it was outlaw, but w.e.)

[bleak flax]

i feel like m+ has been so dumed down now that cc is nearly needed

[limpid sage]

With tons of mechanics every raid tier that entirely ignores it

That tend to be the thing you wanna reduce

[teal plaza]

Not really

[night sparrow]

bc it's +10 and beside 2 or 3 spells that are mandatory to cut per dungeon, most spells do 0 dmg

[keen dome]

So just give us +3% crit aura, bam, solved.

[limpid sage]

Yes really

It’s not bad - everyone elses is just way better

[alpine wraith]

actually we used to have extra attack speed

give it back!

[plush roost]

Yeah till dragons intermission and u cant reapply it. Or paladin boss runs out and u cant apply it. Or the rift simalacrum and alleria are seperated

[short aurora]

Last time i discussed shroud value with my pugmates they told me "rogue go sky" i bet he wanted to Tell me that shroud movement speed is big value on skyreach

[lone spear]

most of the pug i play with are happy to see me do a 8s stun followed by a kick on mages

[short aurora]

[steel horizon]

20 mins applying to groups, 20 mins running a +10. rinse and repeat

only playing the game half the time. lol

[bleak flax]

indeed

[zenith wedge]

until someone stuns before you and the diminishing returns hit

[lucid jackal]

I didnt see the fight on mythic but I wonder if its worth just always hitting aleria on mythic for atro value

Rather than hitting the simulacrum

[plush roost]

A genuine question that was brought up was, can atorphic work on dragons

And turns out ye mostly

Its annoying its not like devo because a lot of the rot is environmental this tier

Like midnight aura on dragon boss comes from xalatoes

[keen dome]

Someone throw the rogue at her

[night sparrow]

Run m+ with guildmates or make your own group, and gg. Tbf it's not even a rogue thing, when i'm lf one last PU dps, I get like 20 applications within 10 sec

[brisk onyx]

generally speaking, the most effective way to resolve a fight is always through DPS and big defense, not the constant 3.6% DR. If you insist on debating raid buffs, this is my opinion.

[keen dome]

Yeah. This. You'll have a similar expeirence puggign on most DPS right now.

It's not rogue, it's the volume of DPS applying.

[bleak flax]

no guild mates that are willing to play over +2 and not the one with the biggest network in the game unfort..

[limpid sage]

That + still no decent metric of someones performance ingame

[keen dome]

Even if there was it wouldn't change the situation

[fleet wharf]

well start making friends then

[limpid sage]

Wish they’d bring back challenges

[keen dome]

There are 3 spots for DPS and right now you'll have capped applicants within seconds on most 10's

[plush roost]

Mythic is p2 and p3 heroic combined without losing space till after second intermission. Then u start losing space in new p3 and u the p1 adds join and u have to kill them and the simalacrims on a different platform pulsing a shield and its basically fuck rogue the figjt

[fleet wharf]

if you insist on playing a dps, you need to either swap to tank or healing or be very good at making friends so you dont have to beg pugs for a spot in their keys

[lucid jackal]

What if u, the rogue, just doesn't is what Im sayin

U just AFK hit alleria the entire time

[plush roost]

Yeah thats the play

Melee were on alleria mostly

2 targey

And ranged 3 target spread cleave

[lucid jackal]

Yeah so just full sit boss on alleria as rogue then so atro is mega working

Seems not even bad, no?

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

Rogue's back on top

[plush roost]

Doesnt work on the turbo mega pulsing simalcrum shield but yeah

[lucid jackal]

Cuz the only time it "loses value" from heroic logs is P2, where we swapped targets a lot, and in intermission where I wasn't spamming throw knife

[north schooner]

play FB outlaw and hook to alleria and back every 12s

[fleet wharf]

I really dislike how the hook works compared to shadowstep

[night sparrow]

Rogue raid buff could be something like "Whenever you deal damage, you have a chance to do xxxx poison dmg"

with an internal cd ofc

[fleet wharf]

I think extra crit damage sounds more thematic, no?

[keen dome]

Why can't it just be a +% stat aura

Like, that's good. Everyone benefits.

[plush roost]

I think its fine atrophic btw, i think that the fight being a 2 target fight is not ideal, probably assa fight

[keen dome]

It doesn't need to be something complex or speical. Just giving everyone More Stat.

[night sparrow]

cause everyone is +x something and we are unique

[lucid jackal]

because flavor

[keen dome]

Honour Among Thieves

Bam, solved.

[misty condor]

Would the raid buff be more important if the percentage were increased? Like 5%?

[plush roost]

Which means u need to get somewhat carried through p1 which is fine cause youre probably holding dps

[steel zinc]

I assume if they dont totally hate us we get in 12.1 an actual raid buff

Hunters got it

[vagrant fossil]

One of the major issues with our raid buff is that it just doesn't work if we can't be on target to what does damage

[steel zinc]

Even a choice node would be nice

[lucid jackal]

By deffinition, yes

But like, people need to be realistic about complaints

Atro isnt bad

Atro is good

[jade urchin]

atro is insane when it works

[lucid jackal]

Rogue has seen play for literal 7+ years, off the back of atro

[steel zinc]

true

[brisk onyx]

we once had

[lucid jackal]

We have 1 tier where rogue doesn't see play because its exceptionally undertuned, and everybody is back to saying its worthless and never works

[keen dome]

Atro is very good, yeah. But we could have something else, too. And I think that'd go pretty far in solving the issue longer term and also sidestep the issues of the damage knob.

Like poison toggle

[chrome sundial]

why nobody play rogue in RWF, bad damage?

[fleet wharf]

that was back in cata right?

[lucid jackal]

If rogue did damage on paladins, it would have been in, OVER a paladin lol

Because dev aura is just worse than atro

[vagrant fossil]

I mean, in this raid specifically. It isn't very strong. Which was the same in LOU with OAB and Stix

[lucid jackal]

and they brought a paladin for dev aura

[lyric iris]

belt or bracer?

[lucid jackal]

Its strong in this raid its just rogue sucks

[olive canyon]

You will always get people who over-compensate, but the issue remains as you allude to, its not that the buff is bad or we have 0 value. It is even in spite of that the tuning is quite bad. They got it quite wrong.

[lucid jackal]

It worked on OAB as well

ROgue was fine on OAB

even good

[brisk onyx]

wotlk

[lucid jackal]

Sub was one of the few melee that could help with the adds properly

[plush roost]

Mmm rogue on oab was goated

[keen dome]

Would you consider Rogue to be fine right now, Guy?

[lucid jackal]

What do you think

Do you think, I think rogue is fine rn?

[plush roost]

Rogue is "fine" and rdps are insanely broken rn

[tepid trellis]

yes!

[keen dome]

I'm curious on your thoughts. This isn't a gotcha.

[fleet wharf]

I feel you would say it just to be contrarian/stir the pot

[hazy breach]

I think its fine if the raid wasnt voidspire

But it is

[lucid jackal]

I'm too used to the outlaw channel my bad

[night sparrow]

If you plan to only run 10s or 12s, sub is really good from my experience

[lucid jackal]

Rogue sucks rn IMO

[keen dome]

Haha, valid

[olive canyon]

sub has felt good up to 14/15

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is a bit undertuned, and the raid is very heavily skewed towards range

[keen dome]

Yeah, the raid is just bad for us.

[vagrant fossil]

A lot of the fights are kinda spread cleave so you just can't have uptime on dots either. Thankfully my guild has decided they want me in for every single fight which is fucking confusing

[keen dome]

But I personally think Rogue is fine with the caveat about a raid buff.

[tepid trellis]

it was good content today logged in to do splits, then logged out and watched Legacy of monsters while the guild did mythic

[olive canyon]

I do think we are missing a button

[tepid trellis]

10/10 saturday

[fleet wharf]

honestly if we can just get by this tier, we should have good times ahead of us, at least in 12.1 right?

[olive canyon]

i actually think assasination feels pretty decent except for the numbers part

[lucid jackal]

I love how all 3 rogue specs feel rn

[olive canyon]

You dont think sub could use just a little more work

[tepid trellis]

i think assa Single target feels good

i think M+ asssa

feels like actual torture

[lucid jackal]

I like M+ assa it just does 0 damage

[olive canyon]

our talent tree seems quite redundant at points, especially the bottom right side

[tepid trellis]

i fcking hated it

[lucid jackal]

Like genuine tickle monster POV

[tepid trellis]

i played it forl ike 3 dungeons

[fleet wharf]

is it because of DS?

[tepid trellis]

no you dont play DS

[night sparrow]

Sin will prob do better as the key level goes up

[fleet wharf]

i mean playing sin in m+ felt bad but it was mostly cuz everything died too quick, what am I missing?

[tepid trellis]

personally i dont think assa should have energy starvation on AoE

[night sparrow]

but no d4rk sh4d0w cl0nes

[tepid trellis]

i think it feels like shit

[olive canyon]

I heard a suggeston on either max or shindigs stream and liked it a lot for Assa - change crimson tempest in to a 2 charge ability with X second CD, that spreads all bleeds up to 8 targets

[lucid jackal]

It doesn't even feel like a short life total issue

It just does no fucking damage

[tepid trellis]

i love the flow in single target tho

[teal plaza]

Its the tier that I came back to the game though

[keen dome]

You jinxed it.

Smh

[olive canyon]

I really think sub could do with a tad bit more of a cook

[teal plaza]

Yeah, my bad guys

[night sparrow]

how do you know you've already looted/used delves map to get 1 heroic item ?

I forgot if I did it lul

[paper iron]

Stealthi ily

🦝

[fleet wharf]

I think it's the delver's bounty? the addon is called savedinstances

[night sparrow]

alright ty, will check that

[azure mauve]

Does it still have funnel at least?

The dmg profile of assa in m+ os the thing i liked the most

[north garnet]

Ok i fucking blinded my self entire first pull with this xD

[lucid jackal]

if u play DS yeh

[untold seal]

is there a list of haste gcd breakpoints

[misty condor]

subtlety gcd is not affected by haste

[tepid trellis]

!breakpoints

shit

i dont remember the command

ggs

[azure mauve]

100% agreed

i actually loved that once you had everything set up in assa m+ you had infinite energy and you blasted the main target while doing aoe

[hazy breach]

Dont think we made a command for itg

[plush roost]

Thats kinda still the case idk what people are on about but once youre pressing fok youre infinity energy at 8+ targets.

Just ramping there takes forever now

[untold seal]

tyty

[plush roost]

Dashing gives such an absurd amount of energy in aoe idk

[hazy breach]

But also like, this sheet is only about haste breakpoints for dance

Which doesnt necessarily mean thats the optimal haste to be at

[hazy light]

I am struggling with sub a bit (I know, I sound dumb as heck) but I am hoping I am missing something simple in my rotation. Where is a good place to get feedback on my log? I used to use e warcraft analyzer but sub isn't supported

[radiant swift]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - Use your second Shadow Dance during Shadowblades with a delay. Means with roughly 2 seconds of the cooldown on Secret technique reminding.
Why? - The extra haste and Blades duration allow the use of a second supercharged Secret Technique.

[lilac stag]

Use !log command

[severe yew]

I'm feeling like gearing a melee alongside my range choice for m+ and I'm contemplating rogue vs dk. I've seen quite a few subs pop off in my 12-13 keys, does this stay true towards higher keys aswell? or is dk immortality just req?

[lilac stag]

Go DK

[steep raven]

Can someone link the original screenshot of this pasta?
Rogue do low damage (ローグの攻撃はゴミ). same parse as arms war (パース赤、戦士と同じ). Bring shame to guild (ギルドの恥). M+ instant decline. (招待拒否). I stand in city like NPC.

[lilac stag]

Better defensives, better utility, better dmg. Easier time finding groups.

[lilac stag]

Discord has an img search feature

[steep raven]

TY! Didn't know you could do it

[plush roost]

Rogue do low damage (盗贼伤害垃圾). same parse as arms war (评分红色，和武器战一样). Bring shame to guild (公会之耻). M+ instant decline (大秘秒拒). I stand in city like NPC.

Man i cant believe it was originally in japanesr man

We cant even shitpost right

[hazy light]

!log

[bleak night]

i saved that ss

kind of a banger

[naive zodiac]

Rogue do low damage (盗贼伤害垃圾). same parse as arms war (评分红色，和武器战一样). Bring shame to guild (公会之耻). M+ instant decline (大秘秒拒). I stand in city like NPC.

[round jolt]

What are the consumables that we need ?

[tepid trellis]

7th of april is our day trust

[pulsar hemlock]

[plush roost]

14th of april will be our day trust

[pulsar hemlock]

The Last Titan alpha

[vale pine]

yes, but both of it was intentionally removed

[naive zodiac]

nah bro last boss 1:30 dmg amps

for sure

[vale pine]

[tepid trellis]

if only we were actually a real burst class still

[naive zodiac]

1:30 and every 20s after

!!

[tepid trellis]

its just castle nathria all over again

[west bluff]

i shouldn't say this but i'm enjoying the damage with 4p, utility sucks though

[vale pine]

so, you predict blizz to buff assassination another 8 times?

[pulsar hemlock]

I doom, but fuck playing anything else in this game.

[west bluff]

great damage profile for both bosses and adds in m+ with the tier set

[tepid trellis]

subs dmg profile isnt great

its either full single target or full AoE

quite shit

0 priority dmg

has 0 low target cleave dmg

[west bluff]

agreed prio target with cleave is kinda sucky

[shrewd lantern]

They literally had it right with tww profile

of just cleaving with nimble

[opal basalt]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lean arch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[sullen hare]

blizzard decided that was more than we deserved so they took nimble out back and shot it

[keen dome]

Naughty little Nimble

[alpine wraith]

so i guess assa will get 3 buffs next week then

if we go electric bogaloo

and they also nerf outlaw again

[jaunty heath]

im fine with buffing assa 8 times, anything better than this

[lyric iris]

offhand weapon dont increase us damage? or it is because some passive buff about 2x dagger?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/juz2dnYDk7tNHWn39NN7GS

[alpine wraith]

or they buff DS doubling and tripling its things

[brazen meadow]

Offhands are useless

Can anyone explain to me why the Guidon isn't allowing me to press sectech twice in blades? Can we only do it in lust?

[alpine wraith]

do you have 4 set

[brazen meadow]

yes

[alpine wraith]

then maybe you dont have 700 haste

[brazen meadow]

697 and not even close

[stuck lance]

Is the 700 haste before or after weapon oil @alpine wraith

[alpine wraith]

then taht is very weird

700 in total

[grave parcel]

Are you waiting a sec before u hit dance after using trinket?

[alpine wraith]

with or without oils

[stuck lance]

I have to delay one of the dances to have dance blades and sectech line up thats normal right?

[hazy breach]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[golden totem]

You often delay dance by ~10sec yeah

[brazen meadow]

I guess it's with oils so Im lacking haste

[stuck lance]

No I mean i blade then dance /sectech it lasts 8 sec the i delay 2 or 3 sec for a second dance to get a second sectech with both buffs

[coral bear]

If i want to raidbotsim myself for the raid, should I do 1 target,2 or 3 ?

[alpine wraith]

with guidon you should not need to wait that much

[coral bear]

Ik theres a lot of adds in the raid

[stuck lance]

Maybe I am hitting my dance to fast after blades macro then

[rugged condor]

What addon are ppl using to track trinket usage? I gotta look at my buff bar like its 2003

[alpine wraith]

there is no addon to track

[rugged condor]

i mean like the buff

since we gotta press our 2nd dance right before guidon expires

[golden totem]

You wanna press 2nd dance making sure sectec gets supercharged

[lean arch]

is there a reason theres not a macro for shadow blade into shadow dance

[golden totem]

You can

[lean arch]

Is there any reason not to?

[drifting elbow]

Hi, does that mean delay the 2nd dance by like 4-5 sec rly ?

[wild vine]

First pin

If you also macro trinket

Would be one

[vale osprey]

Some people like to do blades + trinket into wait then SD SecTec

Some people press trink then have all 3 SB, SD + Sec macrod

[lean arch]

iv got rangers insignia now so it doesnt seem like id want to macro it

[golden totem]

Flexibility. I don't like macroing stuff and I don't lose dps doing so so I'm not doing it.
But you can macro pot + blade + dance + sectec for trickster burst if you want yeah

[lean arch]

I like having flexibility too but at the same time its like well if Im never clicking them together then yeah no point in straining myself

prob wont macro the trinkets tho

[golden totem]

That's fair

Yeah trinkets, esp guidon are not recommended in macro, see #subtlety-faq

[lean arch]

I see that yeah

[shrewd lantern]

none of the trinkets are macro friendly this tier

puzzlebox you need a seperate bind for due to channel

[golden totem]

Idk I don't have guidon yet so haven't tested it myself, goal is to get 2nd sectec inside blade and also supercharged

[drifting elbow]

okok, by supercharged you mean the 2 bonus blue combo point right ? If so I'm not dsoing it right, I need to delay more

[plush roost]

Midnight Simple Auras lets you make custom timers

[jaunty heath]

i liek that ayije cdm

pretty cool

[golden totem]

Yeah that. You can 2nd dance when sectec is 2sec off gcd so you dance evis strike sectec

Idk how clunky it is yet as I don't have guidon despite splitting nm +hm for 2 weeks

[jaunty heath]

it feels good in bl but feels very sad outside it

[golden totem]

Seen my first guidon drop in llr today

[coral bear]

In average, if I want to SIM myself for the voidspire raid, should i sim myself 1 boss or 2 boss patchwerk?

[rugged condor]

thank you

[hoary bloom]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[vivid cobalt]

has our m+ spec changed at all in the last 2 weeks

[night sparrow]

no

[jagged hamlet]

any idea how to get rid of this ?

[stiff stirrup]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - Use your second Shadow Dance during Shadowblades with a delay. Means with roughly 2 seconds of the cooldown on Secret technique reminding.
Why? - The extra haste and Blades duration allow the use of a second supercharged Secret Technique.

[jagged hazel]

Is there any difference between pressing shadow blades first then shadow dance and vice versa? Sub faq says to dance then blades but just curious

[vast plank]

guys why i cant see the proc from combo points?

[tepid trellis]

spell alert overlay

opacity in settings

[vast plank]

this one?

[rich canopy]

Is it better to get two dances in blades and delay the following SecTec, or delay the second dance to make sure the SecTec after blades fits into it?

[plush roost]

I think /ms lock, ? It only shows when u can move icons

[jagged hamlet]

that worked ty

[hexed dagger]

am I high or is there something that prevents black powder usage when youre out of melee range of your target?

I swear I sometimes cant press it

[reef thorn]

are you using the macro w/ cdg

[hexed dagger]

yeah I am

that must be it

[reef thorn]

aye aye, that pisses me off 😭

[hexed dagger]

so thats only happening when coup is up I guess

hadnt noticed

[jagged hamlet]

can set up a key modifier to bypass and only cast black powder when held

[quick marlin]

so close yet so far

[vocal narwhal]

Anyone have a good setup to easier track my combo points, i want them more centered so i can see them without looking down. They are down in a corner there for me now

[quick marlin]

this is how I track mine

with sensei's

[vocal narwhal]

oh that was cleaner

[quick marlin]

my profile if ure interested

[vocal narwhal]

Thanks!

ill try this

[spiral needle]

PI makes 2nd sec tech during sblades super cozy, need game completely reworked so sub always gets PI

[quartz tartan]

hey i'm wondering about something, i've been told 2 different things about this. should i use Secret Technique 2 times during my Shadow Blade window every time it goes off its cd or only do this during pull with lust and guidion.

[jovial ginkgo]

Realistically when are we shutting the discord down

[sleek socket]

there is a cap for mastery?
my stats are 21crit, 18haste, 68 mas

[lucid jackal]

Whenever ppl stop making the same 1 joke

[rich canopy]

How are people killing Nullaeus as Sub? My Valeera just dies constantly

[naive zodiac]

have to save things like cloak/evasion to res valeera

[rich canopy]

That doesn't work unless I"m missing something or they changed it

She dies, he casts his DoT, I cloak it, he casts the DoT again before she comes back and I die

[west tide]

grab the hearts to heal valeera

[naive zodiac]

ye usually when he starts his cast you need to kick i cloak and res instead of kicking

[rich canopy]

It's not kickable

Or do you mean eat the ability with cloak?

I see

[naive zodiac]

yea youll have to be able to live 1-2 autos after his cast ends but it helps

also ya healer valeera use heal orbs very sparingly

[near herald]

is hte 18% breakpoint for buffed or unbuffed?

[exotic solstice]

is crucible worth useing ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[hazy breach]

700 total

[mortal arch]

don't tricks her, just let her tank while you're in dance and then you'll tank the hits (with healing orbs, etc) while she heals up

[quiet smelt]

anyone got a solid UI using resource display i could get some inspiration from

[mortal arch]

she might die during your initial set of dances since that makes her tank a really long time, but after that it should be possible to juggle back and forth without her dying

ideally save evasion for the end of the fight when he can global you

[near herald]

like naked out side of the raid ?

like solo? 😄

[hazy breach]

??

[rich canopy]

I don't think Valeera ever heals herself?

[near herald]

well guess buffed then

[lusty relic]

just get a tank and put valeera on healer, ez gg

you can do calculus to get this done and find all these optimizations or just get carried

[rich canopy]

The bugs are also a problem, I have >80 parses on everything and can't reliably kill them + they tend to get stuck in the ground degen and not move

[hazy breach]

Theres no raid buffs that give you haste rating

[dire ravine]

The real grief was having to position ahead of Valeera to rez her while that gravity orb sucked you outta range.

[whole willow]

Hoping for a little help/clarification. I was having a bit of trouble recreating it on dummies, but my Shadow Dance/Secret Technique became a bit desync'd in an M+ last night.

Is there every a scenario where you would Shadow Dance without SecTec up? Or just wait until they sync back up?

I'm also not at the haste cap, if that matters.

[quartz tartan]

are sub capped at 700 haste?

[whole willow]

And one other thing I was curious about...I know it requires planning ahead, but if I find myself with 1 charge of SD and Shadow Blades/SecTec ready to go, do I send it? Or wait for 2nd charge of SD?

[keen dome]

@lilac stag two dooooown, one to go.

[trail bison]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[limpid sage]

It’s haste rating specifically

% increases don’t scale it

“It” = Shadow Dance duration

[twin quartz]

Not capped at 700 haste, but you want an initial 700 and more only in ~500 increments

But for this tier, 700 is the breakpoint being advised to hit

[midnight vault]

and for mastery?

[sleek socket]

any good addon to track "the first shadow dance" passive?

[twin quartz]

Ive seen people run balanced amounts of mastery and crit, or more focused on mastery. It all seems to work fine

[hollow spear]

You don't have to have two charges, 1 charge and the 2nd one at ~ 10 second cd is fine

[jovial ginkgo]

67

[worthy escarp]

Got both puzzlebox and light Company Guidon in Champion track, is puzzle better for m+ and raid or ?

[glass kelp]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[tepid trellis]

puzzle for m+ and guidon for raid

[still salmon]

Mr Robot is suggesting I craft Murder Row Fishhook over Farstrider's Mercy (showing a bigger % upgrade) - why is Farstrider's always listed as BIS over Murder Row Fishhook?

[south kernel]

wait do u just hold blades for box? or just play it every 3 mins?

in m+ i mean

[tepid trellis]

3min

[south kernel]

cos u might get away with playing 2 min blades if pulls line no?

sadge 😔

[crystal bone]

really wish i didn't read that just now

i have both

[glass kelp]

!addons

[latent finch]

Dont craft the fishook!!
Its a pure singletarget proc and gets outvalued by the stat embellishments. Also did you sim with a embellishment on the farstrider? They are close in singletarget but the hook one sucks in aoe

[grand galleon]

do we hold SD in SB even if ST comes off CD on last global of SB?

[dusty totem]

Is sub busted now?

[bleak night]

and you guys wanted buffs

smh

[lean arch]

Is there like a way to get a sound notification when your bar fills up again after using a finisher? I assume its from the stored combo points

[shrewd lantern]

its always been good in content that dies fast

[pure cloud]

I would get so annoyed at the sound no matter what it was lol

[shrewd lantern]

10s are easy

[lean arch]

Im thinking like how BtE gets a reload sound, something like that would be good bc I think id react quicker

idk ig I should just have the stored combo somewhere on screen

[pure cloud]

I don’t know if you mean the apex proc that auto caps points or just hitting max points at all

[lean arch]

idk tbh. I just notice during burst window after using a full combo point finisher, it refills the combo points sometimes

I literally just switched to sub like a few dungeons ago since back in tww

[pure cloud]

Yeah it’s your apex talent. Looks like black shooting stars

[vale pine]

gz

[dusty totem]

I guess that is true

[pure cloud]

You get used to anticipating it being there

Procs a LOT. Sound que would kill me, but I’m sure there’s a way

[keen dome]

Thaaaanks ❤️

[jagged hazel]

is there any difference between pressing shadow blades first then shadow dance and vice versa? Sub faq says to dance then blades but just curious

[lean arch]

ig I just want some indicator so I can know what to click before I end up wasting my keypress on a builder

[pure cloud]

It gives a visual proc

Two black shooting stars around your char

[lean arch]

oh is it the black lines ?

like the curved black lines

[pure cloud]

Yeah go into dance and hit some dummies you’ll see it

[lean arch]

ohhhhhhhh

Im so silly-coded

thats easy to tell then, yeah

prob wouldnt mind an audio cue too but I think thats noticeable enough

[pure cloud]

It won’t proc itself either so you know it’s gonna be double finisher builder if you see it

Also the visual will go away if you secret technique but you’ll still have the proc if you hit max combo again

Same with kidney shot

[lean arch]

What wont proc itself?

[worthy escarp]

What number do you guys set at your SpellQueueWindow? any sweet spot ?

[dreamy stump]

hey guys, sims tells me i can have lot more damage but i wont have 18%, is this okay ?

[dusty totem]

Link sim

[subtle pine]

For any sub rogue Pvpers I have a quest . For solo shuffle what do you focus on ? Do you focus on the dps or healers . I’m having problems because I feel every classs can shield and out heal the damage I do and it’s just a pumping match . Any tips to counter this?

[shell vector]

Any reason why raidbots won't let me put myth crests in AT ALL?

[frank wolf]

Sub rogues- ive noticed that using shadow dance/sectec when you have a proc of ancient arts consumes the proc (as in, doesn’t let you cast another finisher) - the same happens if you have a ancient arts proc but spend it AFTER your second shadow dance inside shadow blades.

Is it better to use the ancient arts proc with evis/black powder first or send dance/sectec anyway?

[hazy breach]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[still depot]

Unlikely you will win in your opener unless they don't press buttons... Basically it's sap open, force something reset. But right now sub is so strong with almost 3 back to back dances you should be able to brute force your 2nd or 3rd go

[crystal quiver]

ngl being a rogue rn feels awful

no1 wants to bring a rogue even tho ill top overall every key

rwf not bringing a rogue and all these yters "tier lists" solidified the unga bunga masses on rogue and no1 invites

[red flame]

Rogue do low damage (ローグの攻撃はゴミ). same parse as arms war (パース赤、戦士と同じ). Bring shame to guild (ギルドの恥). M+ instant decline. (招待拒否). I stand in city like NPC.

[shrewd lantern]

this is why you dont pug

[dreamy stump]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/syzQTt2HDJeNWeSdpzPRj8

[glad cosmos]

Ye i only got invited to a key because they thought I could trade a leather chest. When they realised I needed it, I was kicked 😂

[shrewd lantern]

I just get invited because big ilvl

[crystal quiver]

i legit havent lost in overall and actually dont think rogue is in a bad spot but every1 does so they just dont invite

its omega gg

[shrewd lantern]

being 270 helps

[keen dome]

I get invited because I tell them about my cat in my join note

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

Also the big ilevel

[crystal quiver]

im 271 and timed 15s/14s and i dont get invited to 13s

XD

[velvet nova]

That's it, I'm officially closing down the discord

[shrewd lantern]

Well i see no point in doing above 12

cba going for title

[keen dome]

The title is cool this season...

[shrewd lantern]

if they ever make m+ title not acc wide

sure

otherwise its just fotm rat+ time spent

i can respect pvp r1 titles but m+ isnt skillful

[keen dome]

I think the only time I'd go full on trying to get good to get it, is if it was really funny

[crystal quiver]

eh i disagree

[shrewd lantern]

m+ title worse than rbg title

rofl

[crystal quiver]

m+ is harder than raid lowkey

[keen dome]

Bring back the wod challenge mode title names

[crystal quiver]

talking pushing top 5 world keys

[keen dome]

Train suplexer or whatever it was for grim rail

[shrewd lantern]

top 5 world raid rank is up there

m+ needs not to be acc wide

for title

classwide maybe

[keen dome]

What about top 5 world idler

[shrewd lantern]

like anyone who got df s2/3 m+ title as aug

/spit

[keen dome]

Also agreed, making it class specific would be a good change

Would be very interesting too

[shrewd lantern]

absolutely wild to have a title like dreaming hero

[short radish]

I have some shit takes but this is definitely one of them. Ain't no way m+ is harder than raid

[shrewd lantern]

glorified passenger princess aug players

almost as bad as vdhs who played scales and last resort

[short radish]

80% of getting title is just being a degen throwing head against wall until you time the key

[shrewd lantern]

you should lose rating

for bricking

at a high enough level

[warm marlin]

i mean i think it depends on how you engage with it but especially now with resil its a bit cooked

[shrewd lantern]

oh yeah resil dont get me started

fail a key 20x

because you cant kick a marker

[frigid prawn]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[short radish]

Thats why I said 80%

[crystal quiver]

resil cooked it

[warm marlin]

ye fair

[crystal quiver]

but b4 pushin high lvl keys

[short radish]

Its just a time investment

[crystal quiver]

1 mistimed defensive over a 30min key, 1 miskick, if ur rotatrion is 1% off ur cooked

[narrow shadow]

From an individual perspective, probably, from a Raid leader pov, hell no

[short radish]

Not that raiding is hard either

[shadow snow]

would it be better to go for Paladins with finality instead of Weaponmaster?

[warm marlin]

last title push (pre resil) i think the most times we failed a key at a particular level was like 3-4 times

[shrewd lantern]

nah alot of keyers straight up dont do damage

[short radish]

Better to go on the bench

[shrewd lantern]

at a top end level

[warm marlin]

and most were 1-2 attempts

[shrewd lantern]

they just do enough to live

[narrow shadow]

Organizing a mythic raiding guild is like having a second job

[short radish]

I just fucking hate key doers. They are the most degenerate selfish players in all of wow

And they fucking ruin raiding

[shrewd lantern]

”no one cares about your push week”

gromnak always with the bangers

[short radish]

We had a mage who rolled BIS on a critical vers ring and then a haste mastery ring right afterwards

Absolute fucking degen

[keen dome]

It's always the mages

Our enemies

[shrewd lantern]

Wheres that dps bell curve

hes that meme

[short radish]

Fuck mages

[balmy gate]

In raid the Boss with 3 paladins U Spam BP ? When they stay together ?

[keen dome]

The middle part of it?

[shrewd lantern]

i like getting a 99 on paladins

and still being 13th on details

its great

[short radish]

Ecks dee

[keen dome]

Just give us a tank spec and we'll be living large

[shrewd lantern]

realistically its worse

since i was only above the dead people and the rat alts that came for extra loot raid size

[short radish]

Anything but support bard spec

Thats the only thing I dont want

[keen dome]

The more I think about bard the more I think it'd go to hunter

[short radish]

There's not a lot of things thst could make us worse, but that is definitely one of them

I'd rather play outlaw than bard

[keen dome]

And well get the cool one. The swashbuckler shadowguard tank spec

Also a raid buff and a poison toggle, naturally

[short radish]

Ofc

Tbh though

I dont mind the poison cast

Maybe just make it instant (gcd)

[keen dome]

It's most a general qol for all duration buffs that the game lacks

More, even

[short radish]

Shamans have thst on flametongue

[keen dome]

But I feel like poisons are the worst example of it in the game

[short radish]

Lightsmith paladins have it as well

[keen dome]

Oh yeah they do

Absolutely, their dumb enchant

[short radish]

Its just us that has cast time

Another absolute L for rogues

[subtle pine]

I just feel like even through this they are healing through ALOT of my dmg sometimes I get lucky through a cd but like paladin and shit just can’t even get through some of them. Any videos maybe you could share or anything ? I’m quite new just looking for a way

[keen dome]

Rogue poison code is somehow tied together with the login server or something

[short radish]

#pvp

For better resources

[short radish]

Shadow dance.jpg

[subtle pine]

I asked they didn’t answer

So I’m responding here.

To someone who did answer me

[short radish]

Understandable have a nice day

[shrewd lantern]

i mean pvp is hit someone that can die

which is usually someone without a trinket

and/or defensive

[near herald]

how do u guys use gaze ? do u hold till gaze and shadow blades are ready?

[astral echo]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[plain creek]

what are the bis trinks from dungeons?
puzzle and? prism?

[sacred magnet]

is there a simulation for races?

cant seem to find it in fuu's cheathseet

[shrewd lantern]

its panda

[near herald]

is this correct yea?

[shrewd lantern]

early expac primary is very strong

[sacred magnet]

holy, did the changed something? it was orc before

ohhh right that makes sense

[shrewd lantern]

feast gives
primary

so panda and mechagnome perform high

dwarf good as always

velf is decent

[open depot]

Zandalari is BiS

[red flame]

human is also rlly good bc the 2% extra secondary stats

[shrewd lantern]

all the % racials pick up later in an expac

[warped fox]

Is there a rogue streamer/youtuber yall would recommend for watching high end keys?

[short radish]

Jpc my beloved

[shrewd lantern]

they probably all rerolled

[shrewd lantern]

”pvc the water rogue”-echo world 2nd gingi

[graceful rock]

DS question, would it be viable to have a blades + dance + storm macro instead of doing what the sim says? im not sure your able to shadowstrike after hitting blades alone

[crystal quiver]

It's telling you to do that. You open with SS evis into blades shuriken

[north schooner]

no sim shows blades in the opener

[warm marlin]

the blades shouldnt be there

[hazy breach]

The blades should probably be with the dance or the eviscerate

[short radish]

holy shit rogue mentioned by max. is this the raid buff we've been needing all along?

[frank wolf]

boys are we sending the 80 crests on the belt craft upgrade to myth or holding for vault

[lethal gale]

Might as well hold unless raiding and want a boost

[silent geode]

🙂

[twin quartz]

Lol I swear maybe 20% of the population says rouge

[shrewd lantern]

Literacy is overrated