subtlety

[opal basalt]

To talk to and compare with

[karmic harbor]

Yeah nice to whisper each other about how dogshit the class is

[spare crypt]

you get to doom with friends

[opal basalt]

Exactly

[short radish]

misery loves company

[lilac stag]

lol sitting for our entry into mythic.

[agile kernel]

this is the way

lurking in the shadows, so thematic

[tulip light]

@lilac stag how are u not getting to play the boss with op rogue trinket?!

[lilac stag]

why give it to a rogue when a DK can use it

[strange chasm]

dude getting 3 dispell on 1st boss

[opal basalt]

My raid struggles with hc chimaerus

[strange chasm]

and just sitting in the far circle with ur dick in ur hands

[opal basalt]

[strange chasm]

is peak gameplay

[bleak ice]

is there a reason we dont run Deathstalker for Vorasius

[fallow anvil]

Is there a script to sim all flasks anywhere? crit is my second lowest stat right now (after vers) and just curious as to whether to swap to crit flask over mastery

[bleak ice]

theres barely any target switching

[short radish]

check #tc-research

[short radish]

deathstalker is cringe and not pog champ

[wide shale]

im seeing top log, people arent triggering AA with SS and wasting CP

is that the move

[spice crag]

what's the tech when you have guidon + 4pc?

does guidon change anything

[opal basalt]

Explained in pins

[short radish]

[fallow anvil]

tyty ❤️

[rugged rover]

When I'm topgear simming my character the topgear sim intentionally goes out of the way to not hit 600/700 haste and instead goes for 550 haste. Should I listen to the sim or just ignore and change my gear to be 700haste (at the same item level). I'm lost a bit

[short radish]

[rugged rover]

The FAQ says "Why does my sim seem to stop at like 600-650 haste instead of 650-700 like the guides say?" My sim stops at 550.

[short radish]

idk it did that for me earlier

i just ignored it and went with vibes and

[viral phoenix]

assuming target dummy rotation the amount of dances in between blades alternates right? you get 3 in between one set, then 2 the next? Right before the 3rd shadow blades I have 1 fresh charge of dance (20 sec off 2nd dance), 20 seconds of blades away, and sec tech off cooldown. Do you send naked sec tech there?

[drifting fable]

whatever my character is bricked unplayable

[subtle zodiac]

do you send a sectec wih no supercharge but within SB/SD?

seems to always be up in opener a little before SD comes up but would be after blades ends if that makes sense

[sand fox]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[exotic steeple]

i kinda want to see a dev note in class tuning on rogue where they admit that they neglected rogue

[proper eagle]

Guys Is it not recommendable using

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Technique

on single macro?

[tame notch]

which trinket do you use?

[chrome palm]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[tame notch]

just look at warcraftlogs stats

[proper eagle]

sry i mean guidon

I read the pin and fuu mentioned slightly before SD

[tame notch]

i wouldnt use that inside macro

[fallow anvil]

you want to use guidon before SD to get the benefit

[proper eagle]

But it is okay to put guidon before sd on macro

[tame notch]

is it?

[proper eagle]

I am just wondering macro is convenient but worrying guidon does apply to SD

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

You cannot macro them

[swift tinsel]

might lose a few gcds in dance tonight

[hazy breach]

Then it will literally never get the increased duration

[warm marlin]

built in guidon delay

[tame notch]

same with the rubics cube

[proper eagle]

I see thank you eleem

[swift tinsel]

playing on phone internet

[tame notch]

https://klipy.com/gifs/waiting-6rJ

still waiting for our buffs

[swift tinsel]

construction company sheared right through the fiber line

been down for the last 12+ hours

[tame notch]

not even 1 rogue in world first race

maybe that will be good message

but ngl tier set makes HUGE difference, got up to top 3 dps on raid from 6-8 without tier set

but yeah making 99 logs on paladins and dpsing like tank feels bad man

[peak flax]

Has anyone else noticed health discrepencies between rogue and almost every other class?

[tame notch]

u mean?

[warm marlin]

we have no stamina talent yes

most classes have one

[tame notch]

But we have hella of defensives op ones

[swift tinsel]

feint my beloved

[tame notch]

from feint to feint that's how it goes

Getting cloaks on Chimerus soaks so free ad cleaving every soak

Evasion so u can tank on m+ so the key isn't ruined if u get pug animal planet tank

We can ignore most of the mechanics while still hittin boss

[north garnet]

14s puggable O. O

[pliant gyro]

so sub is doing great in m+?

[north garnet]

lots of damage amp bosses

its sweet

tho i get mogged on 3/2 target

[blissful sail]

anyone have tips for lightblinded vanguard?

I cannot find a good way to do this boss as sub

[iron shore]

Perfecto at Echo used his rogue on dragons

[tame notch]

Legit that's the only fight we are usefull

[remote rapids]

does the new tricks addon target whichever tank you have focused?

[formal pollen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fallow anvil]

just picks a tank in your group, no need to focus

[remote rapids]

but if i want to tricks to a particular target does setting focus work?

[fallow anvil]

Havent tried but probably needs a dif macro specifically for focus target

[fallow anvil]

It just doesnt seem to be a good boss for our wheelhouse, got a 98% on it in HC and I'm still well below similar/lower ilvl specs on the meters.

[blissful sail]

what did you get if you dont mind me asking, in terms of dps? mine was like...70k, which is awful lmao

[vernal drum]

@remote rapids which macro ?

[fallow anvil]

108k, Only thing I really made sure to do was shadowstrike as a builder when only 2 bosses in range and shurikenstorm when 3 in SD. Storm outside of SD always.

[short radish]

reroll MM

it is not a good fight for sub

[blissful sail]

LOL good idea

[blissful sail]

yeah I did something similar but I guess I just had alot of downtime because of unoptimal positioning or something

[short radish]

you'll just have to accept this tier as it currently stands

rogue is very mid to low

it is what it is

(i have accepted it but fuck its stupid)

[faint gorge]

for the paladins fight, are we just using shuriken storm/bp?

even if its two of them grouped

[solemn sonnet]

ss in dance

[potent heath]

ss for 3 target max ?

[fallow anvil]

Shadowstrike in SD if 2, Storm if 3. BP always. Storm outside of SD if 2 or 3. backstab on the rare occasion you can only hit one outside of SD

[potent heath]

BP in 2 or 3 ?

[fallow anvil]

both

[potent heath]

ok

thx

[faint gorge]

super helpful thank you

[west bluff]

are you guys using any addons to track trinket stacks? wanna track the plume if its close to resetting

!addons

[tribal blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[radiant swift]

strike with 3 targets, bp on 2+(if potent powder), coup always over the others besides obv stec

unless faq is not u2date anymore

[fallow anvil]

strike with 3?
the bp we agree on, and I just assumed coup is macroed to bp in this situation, so we agree on that as well.

The strike in SD on 3 targets I don't agree though

[radiant swift]

it does say so in the faq - would reco tho to not macro coup so u can send it when u need it

[tribal blade]

iirc storming on 3 target is a negligible dps increase over strike in dance

and if you strike you get more prio anyways

[fallow anvil]

Oh! That definitely said 2 targets before and storming at 3 is still doing well for me. I'll try agin next week and switch it up.

[fallow anvil]

It always seems to be up for the super charged combo point but I get what you are saying, if it ever desyncs then not having it macro'd is better

[radiant swift]

esp in m+ there wil be multiple ocassions where its up but the pack is dead and then u can move it to the next pack

[fallow anvil]

prio for light blinded isnt that important tho

[fallow anvil]

oh, yeah of course, this was for lightblinded raid boss only

[radiant swift]

do u know how much loss it is to evis on 2 instead of bp with powtent powder?

[warm marlin]

its a gain depending on how much mastery you have

it was a 2% gain for me the last time i simmed but I was 10 ilvl lower

so its probably near neutral

[wintry heart]

Is this sub tree right for m+? Its different from wowhead

[fallow anvil]

Finality* instead of veiltouched I think (edit: I'm dumb)

[radiant swift]

damn another weird interaction

did u patchwerk 2t

[warm marlin]

yeah

[radiant swift]

5min aswell? how did u even do that ? once with bo once without and checked what sims higher?

could possible quick sim 2t and see what robot does?

[warm marlin]

advanced sim with apl change

[radiant swift]

ah hell nah

[slate fable]

its better to just send evis during blades instead of holding for sectec at all correct?

i assume you don't want to hold for anything while blades is active

[fallow anvil]

Not sending every gcd possible during SD and SB is just a loss. Holding SB and SD to line up sectec (as long as you don't lose a cast of either in the fight) is more beneficial.

[floral karma]

can anyone tell me why i can burst 210k but fall right off to about 70k in a boss fight

its the same 4 buttons all fight

[solemn isle]

because your CDs are very strong?

what kind of question is that

[steel wyvern]

simply put

[floral karma]

ok fair but yet why do i drop off 70%

[solemn isle]

because your CDs are veeeery strong

hope that helps

like you are waving pool noodles around without them level strong

[steel wyvern]

mythic guidon slurped up

could this day get better

[floral karma]

i was just wondering is it just me am i doing something wrong or its just the class

[steel wyvern]

in what content

[floral karma]

raid for start

[steel wyvern]

do you have 4p

[floral karma]

just 2

hoping for 4

this week

[steel wyvern]

i mean especially when you get 4p

boss dmg look like this

big spikes

[floral karma]

so we drop hard out of cds

an try to play catch up with cds

[steel wyvern]

kinda

[floral karma]

so to have good parces you would hopfully kill boss during your cd window

[wintry heart]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[steel wyvern]

either good kill time or good cd lineups

[floral karma]

ok that i guess was more my question i tinkered with outlaw an it just stays at like 80k

[shrewd ridge]

i had a weakaura that showed number of mobs (number) within range of sub aoe but since they are gone is there anything similar?

[wintry heart]

Do the "upgrades" to this work in all zones? The tooltip on the upgrade menu says only in voidspire

[sullen hare]

gamers, we did it

[silent geode]

Yes

[short radish]

thank you for sandbagging

[high grotto]

just checking with the haste requirement im assuming thats not in raid

[sullen hare]

my secondaries in shambles, single piece of tier

shit player, all of it

[fair wedge]

4p is like 10% i wldnt sweat it

[fair wedge]

consumes are crazy broken this xpac idk i have dogshit haste like around 400 but hit the 700 breakpoint with consumes

[short radish]

someone has to be the worst in order for someone to be the best

i'm free from one jail right back into another

[valid tartan]

puzzle box is a negative modifier to sanity

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/venom-tom-hardy-screaming-gif-11035878

[final gulch]

anyone know the ideal haste amount to have with guidon? atm my sim wants me at around 590 & no amount of haste gems/gear changes that.

wondering if i get more haste gear i'll hit a better breakpoint tho

[void jungle]

Hi guys! I killed Averzian Mythic today but my dmg was soo low 🙁 Can u guys help me understand what i did wrong? I checked wowAnalyzer and looks like i'm missing some windows in Shadow Dance/Blades. Can u guys help me please ?
https://br.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TRkqYwtWMbFVX6jd?fight=19&type=damage-done

[smoky estuary]

how do you guys improve your uptime on bosses? I was only 76% active during cosmos which I found shocking

[final gulch]

just hit boss idk lol, stay in melee as much as you can without griefing the raid.

cosmos has low uptime in general tho bc of the intermissions

imo better to look at casts (amount of builders/finishers) vs similar kill times to yours

[smoky estuary]

think im not using as much gcds waiting for my dps cooldowns to line up

i used to stop pressing any buttons when secret tech is 5 seconds away

[final gulch]

i do that

its better to send sec tec asap

[short radish]

thats normal

[final gulch]

rather than have it come up and you're 3cp or no energy

you get more sectec's in a fight doing that

[arctic heart]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Mastery >= `Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700)` > `Critical Strike` > Versatility

[smoky estuary]

I think I was also trying to proc my apex talent on every eviscerate which I think now you should only do it on empowered combo points and that deathmark shadow proc thingy

[steel wyvern]

surely this means i can outdps u on voracious

[smoky estuary]

just not used to new sub

[final gulch]

imo just ignore the apex talent

a lot of the minmax stuff got walked back and now its almost never worth messing with it outside of lust

[short radish]

my feelycraft says puzzlebox is actually not as shit as people think

and you hold

[final gulch]

if u have a proc just use it

[low comet]

is it possible to have TOO MUCH haste? feels like my GCD is being negatively affected

[bleak night]

your gcd isnt being effected at all

thats part of being an energy spec

[smoky estuary]

is there any good vods on the current raids in midnight for sub rogue

[short radish]

because you get use at
0:00
1:30
3:00
4:30
not really 6 because you probably kill it by here

so instead if you do
0:00
1:30
3:30
5:30

you get same amount of casts + sync'd with pot

[balmy gate]

Hey Guys how is ur pug exp? Do u have Problems to get in +9-10 ?

[short radish]

yes i get rejected at 269 ilvl with 4p

[bleak night]

lmao rogue pugging

everyone laugh

[short radish]

[balmy gate]

Holy hell 🙁 yeah Most of the time im with guild but work schedule is shit this and next month

[short radish]

it'll be fine next week when you have your own +10 key

probably impossible to push a 2 atm

[smoky estuary]

I only get accepted into 2+ with 260 gear

[balmy gate]

Haha

[valid tartan]

it's actual creatures listing 9s and 10s, don't take it to mean anything

[short radish]

probably the only one signed up to a 2

[final gulch]

ye i tried for like 30min to push my 2 and a tank just wouldnt apply lol

why would they tho, i get it

[short radish]

yeah 0 chance im signing up to a 2

[balmy gate]

Yeah but i think Most dps classes have this Problem right now sooo much Keys

[short radish]

it's a problem that's been a thing forever

[final gulch]

just play a lust class for the insta invite

[short radish]

unforch nothing cna be done about it unless we're "meta"

and it has to be like ultimate meta or something

[pliant otter]

so do we use puzzle box anytime it's up with dance?

[balmy gate]

Im sad 🙁 SUB rogue is the most fun spec since tbc and they dont wanna fix it or make it a bit better

[short radish]

the short answer is use it every 2nd use (treat as 3 min cd)

[pliant otter]

mmm kkk

thanks

[short radish]

we all are brotherman

[steel wyvern]

fimbul i dont think i will beat you

[final gulch]

aren't we getting another aura buff

[steel wyvern]

on the second bossinator

[short radish]

nah bro i did so much bad shit

you got this

i think im already 5th or something

[smoky estuary]

havent played sub since dragonfligt and they pruned so much

[wicked urchin]

anyone else getting absolutely gigahorrible m+ loot this week?

21 keys and 2 usable items

[steel wyvern]

are you saving

[smoky estuary]

had to delete my shadowblades coldblood macro

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i got the spire mount

before any loot

[steel wyvern]

sectech for adds

[shrewd lantern]

:)))

[steel wyvern]

or something

im just sending everything on cd

[short radish]

I did if I was forced to

acutally no thats wrong

[smoky estuary]

my nightmare and hard mode preys all dropped daggers for some reason?

[short radish]

I sectech'd adds if it was up

i also just full sent into adds if cooldowns came up

[smoky estuary]

my M+ only dropping gold on 3 chest

[shrewd lantern]

Well

[tall girder]

puzzle box after ur first secret technique and u do giga dam

[shrewd lantern]

2 mythic raid vaults

[wicked urchin]

exile

[shrewd lantern]

surely we get something useful

[steel wyvern]

we are full taking adds out into narnia

[shrewd lantern]

[steel wyvern]

so its hard

[short radish]

yeah the timings are omega shit

[steel wyvern]

its fine

[smoky estuary]

can you link it

[short radish]

i try and greed on boss

[wicked urchin]

surely i get a gaze in my vault

[steel wyvern]

im happy with rank 1 on first bossington

[tall girder]

fim should i play DS of vorasius

[shrewd lantern]

i got a gaze same week as my tier

[wicked urchin]

https://www.twitch.tv/imexile

[steel wyvern]

im fine with something shit on this one

[tall girder]

im not benched

[shrewd lantern]

the gaze had speed

i didnt take kek

[short radish]

my tank pulled the boss so i sent my cds into 99% dr 🙂

[short radish]

nah DS is cringe

play the spec you know

[tall girder]

i know how to play both

[short radish]

then play DS

[shrewd lantern]

ngl

[tall girder]

i simply will not hit adds

[shrewd lantern]

sub feels decent on chim mythic

at least

well at least this week when the adds have hp

[smoky estuary]

ty

[shrewd lantern]

DS simmed lower on ulria's sheet

idk why

[woeful wren]

DS with new mark ability will feel way better

[smoky estuary]

how are you guys gearing outside of raid

yeah watching this exile guy hes just ignoring apex talent and just spending combo points

[short radish]

ulria sheet is probably outdated

no reason to use ulria sheet when we have fuu sheet

[smoky estuary]

going to do this next time

[shrewd lantern]

true

i mean with trickster you just rip dance and sectech

and the rest of the apex kind of plays itself

[short radish]

yeah

DS simmed 2% higher for me or something

but i also kidna just cbf

[shrewd lantern]

real

moment i get parried

and lose my mark

[steel wyvern]

the optimizations to make that shiznit work

dont think i care enough

[smoky estuary]

wheres this evil fuu sheet care to link?

[short radish]

it's also that i'm going to fuck it up

[steel wyvern]

plus mistakes are giga punishing

[short radish]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel wyvern]

yeah

[smoky estuary]

sick

[short radish]

and i tried playing it on heroic or something for a pull

[steel wyvern]

im gonna lose

3% wipe

[short radish]

and my combo points werent updating

[steel wyvern]

its over

[short radish]

[steel wyvern]

u are gonna win

[shrewd lantern]

we kill chim

on my shit pull

feels great

[short radish]

puzzle box gang gang wins again

[bleak night]

a maid wouldve killed

[shrewd lantern]

also killed kaiju mf on the one pull i brick my pbox usage

gg

[short radish]

i want to know wtf squirlness did

to omega gap everyone

by 5k

maybe 3rd use?

[steel wyvern]

its gotta be some degen aoe shit

[shrewd lantern]

uhh

[steel wyvern]

with the puzzle box

for sure

100%

[shrewd lantern]

10% bp

[short radish]

oh wait yeah

[shrewd lantern]

ok

[short radish]

its adds

[steel wyvern]

there it is

unlike notamaid on first boss fully ethical

[shrewd lantern]

wait he has potent powder

[short radish]

ain't no way he's playing PP

[steel wyvern]

aint no WAY squirlyness is whipping out his voracious pp

[short radish]

^but yeah check feelycraft on this

[shrewd lantern]

waiting for the chinese logs

for some real degeneracy

[short radish]

im gonna try it next week (because i wont have a guideon anyway)

[bleak night]

Guideon ofnir

[shrewd lantern]

same

i need to sign up for AA jail more

to farm a bigger pbox than champ

hidden dragons tech of playing pbox to light up orbs

[warm marlin]

and guess what happens if you also race changed to orc

[short radish]

fuck

is this the start of my absolute degenerate arc

but if i'm not human how will I get out of the stun on the bird boss in WR Spire

[shrewd lantern]

nah play void elf

pray you get the racial proc during cds

[short radish]

[warm marlin]

pvp trink

[shrewd lantern]

surely we pull mythic guidon

or mythic alnseer

[warm marlin]

surely

[shrewd lantern]

from next weeks vault

[short radish]

[shrewd lantern]

we had

the shit chim trinket drop

[short radish]

bro i gaslamped myself into thinking i got that trinket on my paladin

i looked at it 2 hours later and was like

wtf this effect isnt alnseer

🤡

[shrewd lantern]

it sims worse than the renown trinket

🤡

at mythic

[short radish]

[pine oyster]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

do i farm xenas rings

or a second one that has mastery

[short radish]

already have 🙂

[white tapir]

for the paladin fight, is sub the best rogue spec for that fight, or would assassination or outlaw be better for that?

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i got an m0 pair

[steel wyvern]

not rogue

rogue bad

[short radish]

bench is the best rogue spec for that fight

[steel wyvern]

^

[shrewd lantern]

rogue is get a 99-100 and beat the tank

maybe a dead dps

[short radish]

your choice of rogue spec on that boss is as consequential as what kind of underwear to wear today

[steel wyvern]

ok fimbul

[white tapir]

thats what im thinking, sub feels horrible on this fight

[steel wyvern]

last pull

[short radish]

jia you

[steel wyvern]

xie xie

[zenith wedge]

sin is better on paladins

[steel wyvern]

wo de team mates zai d c

[bleak night]

Si

[left ledge]

can anyone help

my attack power is 0

for some reason

10 combo point evis hit for 7k

all my abilities are doing like legit 0 damage

[zenith wedge]

repair your gear

[left ledge]

yeah

its repaired

[bleak night]

Log out of classic

[left ledge]

bro

help

[steel wyvern]

wait

we won

@short radish what the fuck

fk that guy

PP abuser

[short radish]

Organic single target damage > artificial padded adds

[steel wyvern]

rank one into rank two i cannot be stopped

[short radish]

Now gotta get r3 on saladbar

Just to send a statement

[steel wyvern]

raid over for the week

thumbs up!

[iron obsidian]

banger

[steel wyvern]

banger

[west tide]

grats

i got bis wrists and fully upgraded them

we killed m chimaera

[stone light]

why do we wana get 18 % haste?

[distant bison]

with 4 set and siphon trinket the guide says use second dance 2 secs before stech comes out of cd so u can use it as second finisher but what if apex dont proc for it? still send stech there or sstrike to proc apex then stech with apex on

[frosty sinew]

proc apex

[left ledge]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[left ledge]

also the faq specifically says to force apex on NON-SECTEC finishers

[distant bison]

cuz as trickster sim goes into dance with full cp dance stech every time

u cannot proc apex there

[left ledge]

yes you should

you go full cp dance sectec almost every time

the only exception is when you are double dancing in blades in which case sectec isnt up

it comes up later in the dance

[distant bison]

yeah thats the only time u use stech as second finisher

so proc apex for it got it

[left ledge]

dude no

i literally said do not

[woeful wren]

btw. is vessel just simming without the passive now or what

[distant bison]

lol

[left ledge]

also sectec isnt necessarily the second finisher

its most often not

[distant bison]

trying to understand why buffing evis/bp with apex is ok but not stech

[keen garnet]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Mastery >= `Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700)` > `Critical Strike` > Versatility

[left ledge]

because sectec doesnt work as it should with apex

only the physical hit gets the apex

[shrewd lantern]

its not a bug its a feature

[distant bison]

so its not as complicated as it sounds. i always go dance full cp - dance/stech if apex dont proc second finisher make sure to proc it rest is regulat

[left ledge]

yes

thats it basically

sectec gives you a ton of sht stacks

so you will 100% be able to proc the apex for your second finisher with max one extra builder

most of the time it just plays itself

[frosty sinew]

sim is proccing apex for sec tech

as second

[left ledge]

sim does some weird things

very exceptionally

the faq literally says to buff non-sectec finishers

[olive remnant]

its not double shadowstriking to force apex

[distant bison]

my sim everytime uses dance / stech as trickster ur sim is trolling lol

[left ledge]

the sim also went dance storm to snapshot the last bit of guidon

as trickster

but guess what

you cant even track guidon buff reliably in game

[frosty sinew]

you can add it to cdm?

wym

i literally track it with my other buffs with ayjiecdm

[left ledge]

yeah i guess if you want to use the cooldown of the trinket as an indicator

[frosty sinew]

no like you can track charge

the buff it gives

[left ledge]

really because ive been trying to track alnseer

[distant bison]

can anyone of u track first dance buff the count down for it

[left ledge]

and it seems impossible

[left ledge]

either way though

[distant bison]

what is this? arc ui

[left ledge]

the same plays guidon in a way you cant

[frosty sinew]

well the sim uses guidon same time as dance

which ye you can't do in game

[left ledge]

because the sim doesnt need the 1 sec

also just ran a sim

my 1:30 only one dances

[frosty sinew]

lol

[left ledge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/34yULeQy7rRVchcNb6zL9P

[frosty sinew]

i do find that a lot of the time i cant even proc apex for the sec tech

evne if it is optimal

[warm marlin]

the robot has some schizophrenic traits

I’ve never seen it 1 dance with guidon and 4p

[frosty sinew]

ye that sim is crazy

[strange chasm]

I sim almost 90k already lol

Actually probably more with dagger now

[frosty sinew]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t3GUw1CpG1wbc8DH944PWN

ye im at 92k

have spent all my crests though and pretty much finished with m+

[plush roost]

Bingusbongus get rdy to learn sin pal

[frosty sinew]

im trying to convince my guild leader that sin is good and i shouldn't be sat for dragons

🙁

[plush roost]

Its really great if u filter out the void orbs!

[frosty sinew]

boss dmg !

well i don't raid again this week so we'll see if rogue gets any tuning for next week

[plush roost]

Theyll see zero rogues in rwf and do some more emergency uhdk buffs

[zenith wedge]

theyll throw us 1% because the race is going on then actually fix the tuning afterwards

[warm marlin]

Dude i might be on the long arm of the law

I’m still sandbagging dagger upgrade and I keep getting outlaw weapons

[strange chasm]

Echo is playing one

[frosty sinew]

if you want to track guidon btw

[warm marlin]

Do I play a dagger spec with 259 mh or rip the law with my 276 mh

Hmm

[plush roost]

Outlaw on alleria is banned

And probably midnight falls

[frosty sinew]

outlaw is getting 15% aura nerf

[plush roost]

Hmmm

[frosty sinew]

i mean buff

just wait

[strange chasm]

I think tomorrow sin is getting the buff to push it above sub

Sub probably not getting any buffs

[plush roost]

They just killed alleria

Lnfao

[frosty sinew]

?

rly

wtf is that

[plush roost]

35 pulls XD

[frosty sinew]

how many pulls was pallies

[pseudo tartan]

52

[plush roost]

Ranged overtuned tier and they probably balanced the fight around having some melee

[pseudo tartan]

95 total for all 6

[frosty sinew]

can't wait for them to make the final 2 bosses impossible

[plush roost]

Crucible of storms!

[warm marlin]

Ya but law seems fine for dragons and paladins

[waxen matrix]

you guys know of any fast ways to farm exta catalyst charges?

[plush roost]

Ye probably i miss precise cuts 🙁

Bro tommorows friday

I cant wait for 6pm

Tuning notes to overreact to

Hype

[shrewd lantern]

no its just rng

[hazy lichen]

spam rank 1 delves maybe

[plush roost]

No

Bountiful delves, m+, raid or rated pvp

M+ probably fastest

[hazy lichen]

+2s?

[plush roost]

Ye could do 2s

[molten citrus]

Surely rated pvp fastest

[plush roost]

I almost became a pvp main doing shuffles

Actual crack cocaine

[molten citrus]

Sub is actually good good for once

I’m so happy

[plush roost]

Pvp made me press cheapshot 1000% more often

Good gamer improvement

[crystal quiver]

whats our bis m+ trinkets?

including from raid

[plush roost]

Probably gaze + feathee trinket from beloran

[molten citrus]

yeah that shit basically replaces ss in pvp where applicable

[plush roost]

Guidon meh in m+

[molten citrus]

most pvpers bind it on like, 1 or 2

[shrewd lantern]

i swear people trinket the most piss cheaps

its so free

[plush roost]

I once giga fucked a group by cheapshot ret, kidney healer, into gouge ret blind healer and smokebomb as they end

Never have i ever felt so useful

Rogue utility in m+ i sleep

Pvp. Real shit

[molten citrus]

imagine if we still had shadowy duel rn

[plush roost]

Idek what that is LOL

[steel zinc]

Bro we are cooked first rwf where rogue is perma bench since castle

[molten citrus]

lmao

[steel zinc]

We are omega cooked

[frosty sinew]

just wait for raid buff upgrade

[plush roost]

Omega buffs into stacked on midnight falls watchout

[molten citrus]

was a pvp talent that would put you and your target in a shadow realm for a few seconds, no one else could target either of you

[steel zinc]

And no amount of buffs is gonna fix our cleave that is none existent

The basically gutted flurry and casstic

[plush roost]

Oh 1v1 me bro typeshi

[molten citrus]

it'd actually like put you both in a different phase entirely

[plush roost]

I can see why that was removed lmfao

[molten citrus]

you could only see each other, and no one could see you

[plush roost]

Probably was insane

[shrewd lantern]

do we spam the na>eu yet

[steel zinc]

I seriously expect buffs and some redesign to 12.1

[molten citrus]

it was an insane ability yeah

[shrewd lantern]

or not until midnight falls

[steel zinc]

Bro the whole season is a freaking joke

[plush roost]

I mean ye, they could buff flurry and caustic js

[frosty sinew]

imagine midnight falls also falls over

[steel zinc]

So in 30 pulls again?

[plush roost]

Design wise theyre fine, numerically nah

[shrewd lantern]

probably

[frosty sinew]

ye like eu doesnt even get a chance

[steel zinc]

I cba I just hope this tier is over fast

[shrewd lantern]

[steel zinc]

I am warming the bench

My rogue buddy and me

[frosty sinew]

i can probably get into dragons

idk bout pallies

[shrewd lantern]

rough tier to have 2

[plush roost]

I mean technically they just killed magmorax

Or dathea

[molten citrus]

if liquid reclears echo could just jump straight into the last 2

[hazy lichen]

damn how serious are your guys groups lol

[plush roost]

Or smolderon

[molten citrus]

could be an insane way to take it home

[steel zinc]

Technically balaron is easier then that

[frosty sinew]

that would be crazy

[plush roost]

Maybe beloran is just tindral 2.0

[steel zinc]

Nah

[frosty sinew]

beloran is supposed to be easier than alleria i think

[steel zinc]

Yeah it is

[molten citrus]

all 3 raids are on their own lockouts though ya?

[frosty sinew]

but who knows they might make it way harder just cause of whathappened already

[plush roost]

They can always change their mind

[molten citrus]

i'm assuming?

[steel zinc]

Yeah

[shrewd lantern]

chim felt like a joke

[steel zinc]

And 3 different hall of fames

[molten citrus]

ye i knew the HoFs

[frosty sinew]

tbf the tank dying shit make chim a lot easier

[plush roost]

Just make 5 waves of orbs go mach20 speed during intermission lines and suddenly beloran is not a joke

[shrewd lantern]

we got a tank

thinking he escaped bdk jail

for a tier

[steel zinc]

It's over whoever thinks rogue is good or fine before the tier ...

[plush roost]

Yeah garret really wanted play brew...

[steel zinc]

Ok enough dooming next tier

[plush roost]

Dk prison pal

[shrewd lantern]

the first 4 bosses felt fine

but uhh

the real bosse

xd

[steel zinc]

Yeah but if your guild can get close to a very good comp you just cut the rogue

[plush roost]

I mean, they considered playing rogue on alleria

[shrewd lantern]

rogue feels good on chim

but again

[steel zinc]

Wow considered

[plush roost]

They actively discussed it

[shrewd lantern]

easy boss

[plush roost]

So its not like turbo dunpster

[short radish]

can you tl;dr the convo?

[shrewd lantern]

can we just

revert nimble nerfs

ty

[zenith wedge]

it not being played is not good at all, they considered it and still didnt take it

[plush roost]

Should we bring rogue, nah

Lmao

[short radish]

[shrewd lantern]

i swear if they just revert nimble to its tww s3 variant

we'd be decent

idk

[steel zinc]

Like seriously close the discord

[short radish]

i miss having cleave

[shrewd lantern]

waiting for the mid tier assa buff

then im stuck playing envenom simulator

[plush roost]

U mean the buff on tuesday?

[spiral needle]

0 rogues? time for another 3% buff on tuesday

[shrewd lantern]

yk whats funny

[plush roost]

We all know were about to see spatter 10% buff mutilate 50% buff

[shrewd lantern]

i called them being lazy

and calling it a day with a 3% buff

[spiral needle]

isn't it a newish/different dev nowadays

[plush roost]

Ye, nobody plays or works on rogue in the dev team

[short radish]

0 dev

[plush roost]

Short staff

[spiral needle]

the last one barely understood rogue

[plush roost]

Unlacky

[short radish]

nah realz was good

but he is just a cog in the machine

[plush roost]

Realz gave us tww rogue remember

[shrewd lantern]

i feel we were worse in aberrus

am i crazy

[plush roost]

We cannot hate on realz

[short radish]

aye

no one shit talks realz

[shrewd lantern]

aberrus idr if we did shit damage

[plush roost]

Tuning? Fuck no rogue was cracked.

Gameplay? Ye

[shrewd lantern]

or it was just awful to play

gloomblade spam

beacon crit

[zenith wedge]

at least since the dragonflight rework and in TWW the class was tuned well. So even if gameplay was a little convoluted you could do well. Now the gameplay is meh and the tuning is ass.

[short radish]

no matter how balanced we were, or how shit our utility was

[plush roost]

1million gloomblade crits and 600k evis crits

[short radish]

sub gameplay in TWW was absolute peak

[icy mulch]

beacon crit

[plush roost]

What a time tk ve alive

[short radish]

i cannot wait for TWW classic

[spiral needle]

obv answer is to just nerf all ranged down to rogue dps and raid will be correct difficulty

[plush roost]

I mean....

[shrewd lantern]

ngl i went into tww as assa

[molten citrus]

the war within remix

[shrewd lantern]

since i saw spatter

unnerfed

[molten citrus]

i wonder what event they're gonna do next

cuz WoD remix sounds BAD lmao

[plush roost]

The remix within

[shrewd lantern]

also i think what really sours my opinion of early df

was fucking ret plague

of df pvp

[distant bison]

make smoke bomb pve, 5% crit buff for raid we meta 🤣

[zenith wedge]

after the ret rework?

[spiral needle]

early DF plagued by infinite buttons

[shrewd lantern]

yeah

when the gamerdads needed their 30 yd range ret

with infinite util

i think df s2 and sl s3

rank as the worst times to play sub

[merry agate]

Whoa buddy wait up...
First we need another unholy and surv rework then maybe some scraps for rog

[zenith wedge]

also sin feels weird now. Think I preferred the stealth aoe bleeds over the crimson tempest change tbh. Or maybe its whatever they did to the energy

[short radish]

another shit hot take that I have is that i acutally enjoyed abberus rogue somehow

[shrewd lantern]

sin literally was fine

besides ds being

hotdog water

[short radish]

i was kinda just vibing with the absolute flat damage line

[ornate heron]

is the 1hr tricks broken?

[short radish]

and seeing your name on details slowly climb up

[shrewd lantern]

idk that playstyle

and terrorist evoker players on echo

made me wanna alt f4

sm

[zenith wedge]

idk if its broken but valeera runs around like a nut job if you put it on her

[stuck arrow]

It's good.

I'd rather do Hunter throughput though.

[short radish]

yeah i get that most people hate it. like i said it's a shit hot take

[tribal blade]

ok i had to untalent perma tricks

tanks be dying

and it bricks the key when they insta res

[short radish]

wait what?

[tribal blade]

yeah all the mobs running back to the entrance lol

and pulling the whole dungeon

[short radish]

oh lmao

[tribal blade]

and everyone chain dying

and it never ends

[spice crag]

too true LOL

[shrewd lantern]

hey guys know what would be crazy

[tribal blade]

i was so used to running push keys where if the tank dies it's basically key over

[shrewd lantern]

if we prune evis from nimble

[short radish]

b-b-b-b-but echo has a rogue so rogue is fine

• absolute shit take by some random dk player

[shrewd lantern]

then buff nimble to compensate

and then nerf nimble

[tribal blade]

nerfing nimble while sub rogue's cleave was already dogshit

was a crazy move

[shrewd lantern]

its almost as fun as

removing talent passives

[tribal blade]

we would still be at the bottom of the charts if they hadn't nerfed nimble

[shrewd lantern]

then adding them as a tier set

[shrewd lantern]

dk players also told me they were gonna be bad after s1 frost nerfs

of tww

that aged well

[short radish]

[stuck arrow]

I mean buffed nimble broke pvp in a way you couldn't tune. 😂 I literally killed people in CDs by accident because they were standing beside someone I wanted to kill. It was silly.

[shrewd lantern]

dk players lowkey reaching boomkin levels

of low iq

[stuck arrow]

But like rogue cleave in general right now is horrendously unplayable.

[shrewd lantern]

you dont cleave people in pvp lets be real

meleecleave players arent real humans

[stuck arrow]

I know. But that's the kind of thing that gets clipped and sent to devs and gets insta nerfed.

[tribal blade]

you do realize pvp has their own dmg aura

[short radish]

pvp players aren't real humans

[stuck arrow]

Like start of xpac world PVP.

[quaint breach]

how much % gain is going from 2p -> 4p in theory? my own sims says around 4% but I thought it would be more?

[tribal blade]

a bunch of stuff is nerfed/stronger in pvp

[shrewd lantern]

i mean every warrior comp in pvp

is basically m+

if you think about it

[tribal blade]

PVE buffs/nerfs do not affect pvp

that's why they have seperate tuning

unless the hero trees are weird for some reason

[shrewd lantern]

ret players ran herald

in pvp

it was weird

i got 2k on that spec importing some guy's build off murlok

and using OBR

[frosty sinew]

sounds bout right the big gain is 2p

[shrewd lantern]

the 2p is basically

mastery

im just glad they stopped the dogshit lou tier sets

[tribal blade]

4pc only buffs blades

2pc buffs everything all the time

[shrewd lantern]

can we have double coup tier back

ty

[tribal blade]

so then we need even more haste 🙂

[fossil forge]

YO UNC

[tribal blade]

because you would be accounting for x2 o.2 secs from coup

in dances

[fossil forge]

i was going brazy the entire raid with a intellect dagger

[tribal blade]

HERRO

[quaint breach]

Ok, then I'm not missing anything at least. Thx!

[tribal blade]

lol no way

[fossil forge]

HAHA

[tribal blade]

well you have a good excuse lol

[west tide]

[fossil forge]

tbf i was literally naked wednesday 19:00 when i entered raid

[tribal blade]

it's crazy the wow UI doesn't warn you if you equip something that's not for your class

[shrewd lantern]

omr omitting the fact everyone has a 100 on chim

rn

[west tide]

yea im one of em bro

we didnt finish the fight in time tho we had to do the intermisson again

close tho like 2%

[frosty sinew]

o you weren't doing the tank death strat?

[west tide]

idt we knew it

[tribal blade]

got good ring today, maybe i can make the 2 set

[frosty sinew]

it is fun seeing a 100 parse go down to like 95 overnight

😭

i think im keeping the 100 on chimmy tonight though

[hollow spear]

The haste situation really pisses me off

[ornate heron]

oh i meant like

is the 1hr tricks broken as in like

not working?

because when we use it in m+

[hollow spear]

Can't equip half of my drops because they don't have haste

[tribal blade]

it works

[frosty sinew]

it works

[ornate heron]

it looks like normal tricks even though we have 1hr talented

hmm i must be doing something wrong

[frosty sinew]

you need to do dmg

during the 30s

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ornate heron]

and it turns into 1hr?

[frosty sinew]

ye

goes away if you die

[robust saddle]

i feel you .. i aint getting haste stuff too xd edging the breakpoint with a flask

[hollow spear]

I just decided to stack stuff in my inventory until it settles

Or I'd have to spend a fortune on changing ring enchants and gems

[shy scarab]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[hazy lichen]

how do u even know these commands

[supple barn]

BEEN FARMIN THIS WEEK

[short radish]

common question that comes up

[supple barn]

Lucky af lol

[shy scarab]

Been here long enough and reading too much

😆😆😆😆😆

[supple barn]

Anyone else have problems picking an alt and just like playing rogue lol

[fossil forge]

[vagrant fossil]

I solved it by having 2 alt rogues to help out the guild

[chrome palm]

I’m calling it aoe buff st nerf

Or at the very least they buff nimble

Or they leave sub as it is and buff the other specs

[tribal blade]

i think nimble buff is the best thing they could do

[chrome palm]

It’s the only thing they can do tbh

They gotta do like

[shy scarab]

Nimble?

[chrome palm]

Replacing shadows

2 target evis cleave

[tribal blade]

yeah there's no way to really tune sub with BP

[chrome palm]

I think

[shy scarab]

Isnt like… nimboe useless

[tribal blade]

without making sub kinda super OP in aoe

[chrome palm]

Yeah like

The only other thing would be secret which is too much st

[shy scarab]

Make nimble like it used to be

[chrome palm]

So nimble is the only way to go I think

[tribal blade]

i was thinking about how part of the issue is storm genning too few CP in cleave

[chrome palm]

Well yeah

That would help

[tribal blade]

so maybe make a cleave strike talent

[chrome palm]

If we needed the cp

[chrome palm]

Oo or this

Like in legion

We had something like this

I think

[shy scarab]

Rogue is a dead class since amidrassil they dont care anymore

[tribal blade]

yeah could be cool

[chrome palm]

Isn’t that what akaaris soul was

Strike cleave

[tribal blade]

i honestly don't remember

OH

the leggo

yes

i remember now

iirc it was originally 100% effectiveness on a 2nd target

was super OP and then nerfed to something like 25%

[chrome palm]

Don’t remember

[tribal blade]

it's a very simple solution

we have a fuckton of shitty talents

[steel zinc]

Imagine rogue being effective in pve

[tribal blade]

so shove it into one of those slots haha

[tribal blade]

not allowed

[steel zinc]

It's not been this bad since castle

I feel teleported back to sl

[quaint breach]

big downside if crafting legs instead of belt? think it will give me biggest upfront benefit and I can craft belt later?

[steel zinc]

The dark times

[tribal blade]

yeah we've actually gone back in time

to sub being the worst cleave spec in the game

[steel zinc]

Wait for mythic vault

[alpine wraith]

legs is good

i crafted them belt is kinda for when you already have everything bis

[tribal blade]

i crafted boots because i got a crit/haste avoidance belt from M+

[alpine wraith]

i got a crit mastery belt that is doing fine too yea

[quaint breach]

I have hero daggers(im impatient) and heroic dagger. Thinking crafted legs might be the biggest boost, then wep, then belt but idk. Maybe ill try to sim it and see

[tribal blade]

wep would be the biggest

i'm guessing

trying simming it

[alpine wraith]

not crafting myth wep is a choice of all time

[tribal blade]

a bit wild yeah

[quaint breach]

coping for wasting 80 hero crests

[tribal blade]

sad days

[alpine wraith]

yea i hope you never get into gambling

[quaint breach]

happy i've always stayed away from it haha

[final hound]

looks like vanguard boss is bad fight for sub? or what?

[chrome palm]

Correct

[gloomy loom]

looks like they dont wwant us in raid as mythic comps has no rogues

[tribal blade]

*bad for rogues

[chrome palm]

It’s honestly evokers fault

[steel zinc]

Correction which fight is rogue good on

[chrome palm]

Too many classes have util that is great to stack

[steel zinc]

It's time to really doom

[chrome palm]

And rogue does no cleave

[tribal blade]

no raid buff

[steel zinc]

Rogues cleave is done

[final hound]

Voracious ST is good

[tribal blade]

i was thinking about making a forum post

because this shit is unacceptable

[naive zodiac]

atrophic value on alleria

[tribal blade]

we always meme about it

but it's now getting out of hand

[steel zinc]

I expect a massive shakeup coming in 12.1 because its pretty bad look to have every class represented in rwf and now that is not that case I expect changes

Idk give us our cleave back. At least to outlaw

[keen dome]

They're gonna buff our BP by 1%

I also don't think blizz should balance or tune around the RWF at all because it's very niche and doesn't apply to the rest of the game. They should give us something, but like. Sub is absolutely fine

[steel zinc]

Idk we are not even good in st

[steel zinc]

If you think sub is fine then sorry no it's not

Every rogue spec is still under tuned. Assa got 5 buffs and still is absolute dog water in st and aoe

[short aurora]

give me my burst back

[steel zinc]

Like your actively trolling playing rogue on any serious boss in prog right now.

[short aurora]

[hazy lichen]

out of the triple dps classes we got fucked

[keen dome]

What's a serious boss in prog

[pine oyster]

is there such thing as too much mastery? depending on rings/neck, i can have like 700 haste, 1100 mastery and 500 crit.. but i could drop some of that mastery to pick up more crit

[steel zinc]

Like anything above 4th mythic bosses because that's face roll and pluggable

[keen dome]

So Paladins.

[hardy agate]

It's time to close the discord

[jade oasis]

weapon enchants r sooooo expensive

[hardy agate]

Like the ret cry babies lol

[keen dome]

So because we can't be good on one raid boss, we're the worst spec and are unplayably bad. I dunno man, Sub is absolutely fine.

[gloomy loom]

any1 testing these in ptr?

[smoky estuary]

evil power infused priest buff

why doesnt warcraft logs take into account damage buffs

[steel zinc]

Yeah in a hc guilding raid so is 4 Manning day one m+ 10 weekly idk what your about we play a different game

[keen dome]

Yeah, I play a game where I have fun

[small vortex]

is veiltouched or 1 point finality better for keys?

[steel zinc]

Cool I play for progression mythic to be exact and if saying fine rogue when your actively trolling playing that class in m+ or mythic raiding then no it's not fine

[keen dome]

Sub felt really good in keys, for what it's worth

[steel zinc]

If you play prey system cool then you can do that in heal spec

I feel your ragebaiting at this point

[steel zinc]

One each

[keen dome]

I know you want to just talk down to people because you think you are ~A big boy mythic raider~ but legit, Sub is fine and if you can't play it on one boss? That's not great but also that's not the end of the world and has been true basically every season? It'll be playable in every encounter by most people and Blizz shouldn't tune around the absolute smallest majority.

[small vortex]

are you dropping tfd?

[keen dome]

Also it's pretty solid in keys right now.

[steel zinc]

I ain't taking down it's just how the game works

[keen dome]

But it doesn't

I'm sorry but the game isn't designed for the 0.1% pushing extremely early Mythic content like the RWF.

[steel zinc]

If you think if your full class has 0 representation at the highest level is fine we just agree to disagree

[steel zinc]

Nah tfd is goated tbh on some dungeons

Especially AA where you have some downtime that's forced

[small vortex]

wait how are you running veil and 1 point finality then

[frosty sinew]

You drop weaponmaster

If you're running that