subtlety

[tribal blade]

haha nah i'll never win

[fossil forge]

Stimulants were involved i dont think it would be possible otherwise

[tribal blade]

oh hell yeah

i've been there before

[hollow spear]

The degen stuff I've done in my life had nothing to do with playing video games

[slate nest]

Give me a 16 second buff and I'll spend the first 10 jorking it

[hollow spear]

Probably even unhealthier tho

[keen dome]

Just never log off

[hollow spear]

Just sending a message. I could do a lot of damage. If I wanted to.

@keen dome Canexx is complaining about bear getting aggro on Kush's stream. Maybe you did your tank dirty 😮

[keen dome]

No chance

I did a rekill with a friend tanking and she got them gathered instantly, no issue

[midnight iron]

i'm just trying to drag down sub logs so blizzard buffs us no need to thank me

[keen dome]

I also did another rekill with another bear tank and he had zero issue too

[hollow spear]

Damn

I really tried to defend that bear I have never met

[carmine portal]

Defending bear tank in its current state

[hollow spear]

I am not even sure about its current state anymore

[carmine portal]

No idea for raid but it's depressing watching how much DPS it does in keys

[fossil forge]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-ross-yes-nod-yeah-gif-5537327

[keen dome]

more dps for me

[carmine portal]

im out here as afflic tryna set up my shit and the bear is doing 4000k dps

[short radish]

padding playtime smh

[carmine portal]

my friends discord marks him as "playing Curseforge"

so he was on curseforge for like 9 hours the other day

Like yeah man, you set up those addons

[short radish]

yeah ive seen that a lot

[keen dome]

Nobody can pad playtime as good as me

[carmine portal]

https://tenor.com/view/shawn-breezy-gamma-male-gif-13452613280176262444

9 hours of downloading addons

[keen dome]

i'll never be that cool

[carmine portal]

i have a mohawk irl and i wish i was as cool as this

idek what you'd call that hairstyle

[keen dome]

Ferrofluid hair

[carmine portal]

HAHA

big ass magnet above his head

[keen dome]

Scale 8 magnitude quake hair

[north schooner]

@vale pine I was looking at the bis list for sub and I see Shaggy Wyrmleather Leggings from pit of saron with crit/haste. But then if you look at the dungeon journal the same pants have haste/mastery. And if you check the game files... there are two pants with the same name and different stats. The journal shows both dropping from normal, but only the haste/mastery version from hc/mythic. Is the guide supposed to have the haste/mastery version instead?

[marble glacier]

I'm always confused if it's 2 targets, is it still better to black powder?

[north schooner]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

The AoE rotation on subtlety starts with 2 targets. This means:

• Shadowstrike with exactly 2 targets.
• Shuriken Storm with 2 or more targets.
• Black Powder with 2 or more targets.
• Hero talents: Keep using Evis for Coup de Grace / "Darkest Night`.

[cosmic owl]

I apologize if this has been answered numerous times before. I did not craft anything last week, because 🤷 . Is crafting a dagger non-negotiable for sub, and should I have done it already? And with crafting, am I using crests - I'm relatively new to the "modern" game.

[upper cosmos]

A few days ago @warm marlin was playing around with something like holding 2nd dance during blades at 0s remaining of guidon to make the anima charge line up with sectec in order to get the extra dance duration & a 2nd anima charged sectec in dance. At least that's how I understood it.
Did he cook with this or nah?

[warm marlin]

it's in faq now yes

[short radish]

i think this is out of date

[golden totem]

Everything is negotiable. But yeah, unless you get 2 mythic dagger from raid you're good crafting a dagger with mythic crest and hunt embellish this week

[short radish]

its SS on 3t

[cosmic owl]

Guides say that the crafted dagger is BiS, but then I'm also unsure how accurate that is.

[cosmic owl]

Thank you!

[cosmic owl]

What does "hunt embellish" mean 😅

[grizzled hornet]

this is not updated its not correct

[glass lion]

is a ilvl upgrade delve trinket worth using? sealed chaos urn

[cosmic owl]

I'm quite a noob when it comes to crafting

[golden totem]

You should read the gear page on wowhead, it will explain u a lot

[grizzled hornet]

its called sigil of hunt, you use it while crafting in order to give special effects/procs to your crafts

[north schooner]

is that due to the sstrike buff? I remember a bug with storm rank 2 being fixed in sims at some point but no clue if that ultimately affected the target count

[cosmic owl]

Ah right, I remember that. But I can buy that, right?

Nevermind, I'll check the AH 😄

[grizzled hornet]

from the AH, yes

[slate nest]

My man

[cosmic owl]

And if I craft it with Hero, I can easily upgrade it to Myth later, correct?

[hazy breach]

I would advise you to not craft it with hero crests

But yes you can upgrade it later

[cosmic owl]

I'll farm the Myth crests first then

[grizzled hornet]

yes after the the buff, you strike with 3

[cosmic owl]

I mean I have 263 daggers so I should be fine to farm myth

[hazy breach]

You do not get the hero crests back after recrafting

So theyre just wasted if you intend to craft them with myth later

[vagrant fulcrum]

the core distinction is that mythic crests are avaliable to people not getting myth loot outside of vault, so even for more casual players it's still right to craft with myth

[cosmic owl]

Thank you for all the help

[hazy breach]

Ye

[slate nest]

Craft myth, use hero to upgrade dungeon/raid hero gear

[solar mural]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[upper cosmos]

oh cool, I was doing it all last night to try it out but the only boss I didn't do that on was NK cause I figured I should try to get as many globals as I could in SD during the amp

[hollow spear]

How the heck do I get the guidon buff to work in arcui? Any knowers?

[keen dome]

I really hope they let us track equipped trinkets in the cdm soon

[hazy breach]

Not being able to see Enemy Damage Taken on the damage meter during combat is also a fucking banger

Love that

[solar mural]

Quick question regarding a macro mentioned in the wowhead guide:

#showtooltip
/Cast shadow dance
/Cast shadow blades
/Cast secret technique
/Use DPS pot
/Use 13
/Use 14

Shouldn't SDance and Sec Tech be used after all of the rest? To benefit from pot and trinekts

[upper cosmos]

finding the guidon buff and keeping track of it till it hit 0s was prob the hardest thing I've had to do on sub since the rework 😭

[hazy breach]

A. Yes
B. Dance wont benefit anyway

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message
Bottom question

[slate nest]

Just use trinket as a standalone button and macro other stuff to you opener so you can do the thing it says in the bottom question

[keen dome]

oh yeah, big same.

I would very much like that to come back. Blizz, it shouldn't be haaaaard, pretty pleaseeee.

You've got an almost solid groundwork.

[slate nest]

Just get the addon people to work on the in game implementations

Or just steal the code

[keen dome]

I would really like to see what is taking damage from stuff.

[solar mural]

Then do we use the trinket after dance or 1sec before it?

[slate nest]

before

or if you are like me, just solve the box for 2 seconds

[hazy breach]

Well if you use the trinket afterwards you do not get any longer dances

If you use it 1s before you do

[slate nest]

@short radish what is the final verdict on puzzlebox?

[grizzled hornet]

depends on your trinket, eleem is talking about guidon

[short radish]

depends what mechanic is happening when i need to press it

[slate nest]

let's say dragon breath on you

[short radish]

no real final verdict

and i have no other choice

[slate nest]

same 😭

[fossil forge]

Is puzzlebox the new transmitter

[slate nest]

you cast for 2 seconds for mastery buff

[fossil forge]

Oh

[drifting ether]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gKTFmJct1GX8ZzDV

[short radish]

but yeah you can kinda plan for it

but sometimes timers kinda dont allow for it and you gotta yolo

[slate nest]

I just send it off cd, I'll scream "IM DYING" and I survive

Bcs healers take that sentence personally

[short radish]

if it's heroic, nothing kills you anyway and you have cheat death

[keen dome]

challenge accepted. I'm gonna find something

oh, oh. The beam on Voraius!

[short radish]

[rapid quiver]

anyone know if the recraft bug is fixed?

[vagrant fulcrum]

to the TCs who might know, has running sub as 2min with puzzlebox / maghar been tested?

vs the currently advertised playstyle

[hazy breach]

Yerp

Its slightly worse

[vagrant fulcrum]

how much roughly did slightly turn out to be

[hazy breach]

Idk like 0.5% or something

[gilded garden]

quick question for m+ ; do you use shadowblades for Aoe? or is it useless when just spamming Storm and BP?

[hazy breach]

Yes you use one of your main cooldown in aoe

[vagrant fulcrum]

I think ill just play 2min, it lines up cleaner with dance cd anyway

[limpid sage]

anyone got any tips on how to level delvers journey fast

[keen dome]

Run delves on alts

[tribal blade]

read the 2nd part of the cd beyond just the CP generation

[keen dome]

Using keys to finish bountfuls on them until rank 4

[limpid sage]

do they all give same rep or?

ah okay so bountiful gives me

more*

[keen dome]

Only bountifuls. Just run them on alts and use keys.

[limpid sage]

ya okay

do you know if there's a diff between 8 and 11's?

[keen dome]

I think it's a negliable difference from the nemesis boxes

[tribal blade]

i know level 4 unlocks myth crests

[gilded garden]

does shadowblades increase BP dmg?

[tribal blade]

but beyond that is there a reason to level up delves quickly

[limpid sage]

ye exactly

[limpid sage]

I'm still lvl 2

[tribal blade]

increases ALL dmg

[tribal blade]

ahh gotcha

[gilded garden]

ah thought only autoattacks lol

[tribal blade]

nah that was the old version of the spell from like mop i think

[gilded garden]

yea thats when i played haha, thanks for the explanation

[tribal blade]

np!

[slate nest]

no official bugfix statement from blizzard, I think you should wait until they put it into the bugfix report

[limpid sage]

think imma just ignore it entirely though

[rapid quiver]

cheers mate!

[limpid sage]

can't be bothered grinding 15 delves xd

[tribal blade]

spamming M+ probably more efficient anyways

[limpid sage]

ya it's just for getting the 20 myth crests through the map

giga efficient

[tribal blade]

ohhh right

i got that w/o being lvl 4 i think

unless i am lvl 4

[limpid sage]

donno if that's bound tot he same system?

[tribal blade]

i have no idea lol

i don't think so

[keen dome]

Do you mean the keystone, Prophet?

[tribal blade]

i got it today

[tribal blade]

i think that yeah

[keen dome]

Yeah you get that regardless on a +11 completion

[tribal blade]

ok nice

[keen dome]

Has nothing to do with delve rank. It's a one-time thing.

[tribal blade]

yeah just do a +11 then

[keen dome]

The 8/8/8 (and map bonus) are behind Delve 4

[limpid sage]

nono I mean the nemesis map thing

yeah exactly

wtb delve rep

[tepid trellis]

@hazy breach surely sub buffs tmrw RIGHT!!!

[tribal blade]

+30% to nimble

[keen dome]

They're gonna buff BP

[tribal blade]

put that bitch back up to +90%

[keen dome]

I'm betting they're gonna buff BP. They've never done it before but this time

[tribal blade]

i feel like buffing BP is dangerous

but who knows what they do

[keen dome]

1% buff to BP

[tribal blade]

hahaha

that is def not dangerous

[hollow spear]

it's a slippery slope

[hazy breach]

[keen dome]

We've made BP do 10% more damage against Paladins

Just Paladins

[tribal blade]

you know they could actually do that

[hollow spear]

The timer on my arcUI bar has been extremely laggy (the number updates only every like 0.5 to 1.0 seconds). Does anyone else have the problem (and maybe even a solution)?

[tribal blade]

just make some different aura in the paladin area

dunno if that could be a thing

[crystal bone]

once we have 4pc, are we holding 2nd dance to fit a 2nd sectec into blades? or is the 2nd sectec only a lust angle

[hazy breach]

Genuinely think theyll see that sub is doing ok in m+ and not buff it because of that

Which is a "it is what it is" angle

[tribal blade]

whatever happened to blizz only caring about raid tuning

let us get in on that mindset

[hazy breach]

[tribal blade]

/dead

[hazy breach]

Im sure theyll buff assa by a lot

So that its actually better in keys too

[tribal blade]

better let my RL know i'm gonna play sin for the fight

yeah sin's already doing the best on that fight

out of all 3 rogue specs

and i can definitely forsee them buffing sin

[hazy breach]

Is that fight paladins?

[tribal blade]

yeah

[hazy breach]

Because idk on logs it looks pretty samey

All 3 specs kinda ass

[tribal blade]

very very turbo ass

[open depot]

Assa is too much brainpower on that

Send OL and hit blade Flurry

[tribal blade]

lol nah

put up garrote

put up rupture

press CT once

fok>envenom spam

done

[open depot]

Hardest of the specs on that fight

[tribal blade]

could be

i dunno because this iteration of sin feels so chill

[fallow nimbus]

So, will mm be gutted for the rest of the expac or is that just a sub thing

[short radish]

blizzard likes hunter but not rogues

so hunters will be fine

[hazy breach]

Idk though i think sub is tuned pretty well this tier. Its just that the bosses kinda suck for sub, i dont know much about the midnight falls boss so sub could be solid there

Unlike last raid where sub was tuned kinda bad, but because the fights were like tailored around sub it was good anyway

[tribal blade]

agreed sub doesn't feel underpowered atm

[hazy breach]

But you could argue that if the bosses suck for it then it is undertuned, which isnt wrong

[tribal blade]

TRUE because we were undertuned last tier yet because we did good dmg in the boss design didn't get tuning

[maiden gale]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

ok sub buffs

where sub buffs

i'm on the train

[wintry heart]

I don’t feel terrible in the keys I’m doing but since I wasn’t able to play immediately at launch I am only doing 4s rn 😂

[tribal blade]

sub is decent in keys

some of the bigs boys in here are putting up high numbers

[crystal bone]

meanwhile liquid was running 5 hunters on paladins

i missed the first couple kills, was rogue benched all raid so far?

[short radish]

we were in for vorasius

because it drops a dagger 🙂

[crystal bone]

[short radish]

seriously just give us a +crit raid buff

please blizzard

[tribal blade]

yeah this is bullshit

if you have a raid buff but get sat from RWF raid

[grizzled hornet]

imexile played DS sub on vorasius

[tribal blade]

do you actually have a raid buff

[keen dome]

well if you ask DK's.....

[crystal bone]

based

[tribal blade]

lol fair

[daring pike]

what is everyones Spellqueuewindow set to ?

[vast basin]

Yo guys, as far as i knew mastery was by far the best stat for us, why is that, that crit is simming insane for me over mastery rn

?

[tulip silo]

did they nuke this? I messed with it but honestly, couldnt tell if it worked

[hazy breach]

Its not by far the best. Its just best

[west bluff]

good thing rogues got a 4% buff right? and that our poison guarantees at least a single slot in raid, right?

[alpine wraith]

no spot is guaranteed if it does not give dmg

[west bluff]

sort of? i don't see a world where they wouldn't bring a warrior and dh. The only classes missing on vanguards are DK and rogue

[tulip silo]

but...the atro...

[alpine wraith]

some melee classes got sat or replaced to tank only duty several times or healer in the case of monks/pala

rogue just cant tank

or heal

so unlucky

[west bluff]

yeah ik, but we could use a poison with %dmg amp for raid, just saying

where you don't need/care for the reduction

[alpine wraith]

i would be quite happy

we used to give AS

when everyone had a buff

and some were shared

[west bluff]

oh that might be very old, i don't even recall that

[open depot]

Just gives us a crit buff

[valid tartan]

unmuted the rwf stream last night to immediately hear them say "rogue is ASTRO dogshit here" on paladins

[tulip silo]

Imagine what they will say in crown

[west bluff]

i never felt so miserable in a fight, last one i recall was the council and losing my deathmark on swaps

[alpine wraith]

rogue basically does 40k less dps than the MINIMUM you would need

some specs do double the required

then the diff between us and the minimum

max said you need kinda like 160k dps median

rogue does like 120k-130k maybe with more gear

as assa maybe

[west bluff]

yeah even then why would you bring

before the season i thought outlaw maybe would go bonkers there

[open depot]

You guys play in guilds where it really doesn’t matter, chill homeboys

[alpine wraith]

outlaw lost all talents that made them relevant in cleave

[open depot]

Just be more charismatic so they wont bench ya. If all you do in raid / guild chat is moan then that’s why they bench ya

[alpine wraith]

now it just does decent dmg

[olive canyon]

whats the context here

which fight?

or in general?

[lyric patrol]

I'll be in but still feels bad to work your ass off to be at the bottom of the meters

[alpine wraith]

vanguard mythic

actually it is funny we have arguments like these

[open depot]

What you mean, work your ass off?

[alpine wraith]

when it has been proven if you cry loud enough there is action

[lyric patrol]

ok fair its only 2 buttons

[alpine wraith]

uhdks could be down there with us

[lyric patrol]

more like work your ass off grinding M+ to get geared

[alpine wraith]

but they got a surprise 20% buff after the 40% nerf so they are not as tragic

we only got the 15% nerf

and well a 6% st buff

[open depot]

?? Are you not having fun playing m+ with your guild

[lyric patrol]

sure it gets boring running so many dungeons in a day tho

[crystal bone]

at least sub is slappin in keys atm, im having fun

[tulip silo]

Just be the funny guy

[alpine wraith]

yea sub is fine in keys and pvp

[open depot]

Then don’t do it???

[tulip silo]

your raid buff is raising people morale

[night furnace]

its not fun doing dungeons, u only do it to get better gear and do more dmg in raid

[lyric patrol]

yea i have way more fun in raid

[night furnace]

and raiding is pointless too

[open depot]

If you are not having fun, start having it or sit down with yourself and realise maybe you don’t enjoy wow anymore

[night furnace]

no one enjoys wow

its a slave game

[open depot]

It is fun

[vale pine]

thanks, will fix (mastery + haste is correct)

[open depot]

I am just suprised with how miserable some people are in these class discords

[night furnace]

not miserable

[upper narwhal]

I don't enjoy doing this completely optional thing in my life

help

what do I do?

[open depot]

This

[night furnace]

play something else

as everyone should 🙂

[open depot]

I have known about your existence for 3 minutes and you seem like a bad hang

[night furnace]

hehe fair

[tulip silo]

I am having fun

[maiden gale]

helloo rogues, i think I didn't miss something but there isn't a mention of playing for Dance Macabre, I'm not playing for it in shadow dance but it deals a good ammount of damage, should i start using backstab and shuriken storm in dance on single to get better macabre damage ?

[vale pine]

you don't play around danse macabre specifically

thats why

shuriken storm in dance is how you start dance on deathstalker, but not because of danse macabre

backstab in dance is not worth it over the regular rotation

[crystal bone]

could you help with this question 😄

[hazy breach]

if you have 4p and guidon yes

[vale pine]

yes, you delay the 2nd dance slightly

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

at the bottom

[crystal bone]

ok, i do have a hero guidon and 4p, seems very smooth with lust, but sometimes i get combo point starved in the middle of blades without dance active, waiting for the 2nd dance+sectec

and even smooth with TFD

making sectec the 2nd finisher should help i'll try that

[alpine wraith]

tbh you might need more haste than 700 depending on guidon ilvl yea

to not krangle it up

if you want to account for the 1 sec of possible snap both ways

[maiden gale]

thaank you

[drifting elbow]

Hi, I read here that we need to use the Guidon 1 sec before burst, because of the haste refresh thing. Is it the same for the emberwing ? (windrunner spire trinket)

[alpine wraith]

yes

anything that gives haste

[maiden gale]

what is guidon 😮

[hazy breach]

Tronket from raid

[maiden gale]

need to get my hands on that juicy trinket

waiting a bit after first dance does feel a bit weird

i'm guessing the trinket helps with that

i was going the first dance talent for that

[upbeat smelt]

Sorry did I miss all the rejoicing with being able to move death mark?

[vale pine]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=249344/light-company-guidon?bonus=12806:13335

its from the first boss

so easy to get

[runic sinew]

what's the ideia? get 1300 haste in Shadow blade?

[crystal bone]

wait, do we actually send guidon 1 sec early? i thought it was 0.2 sec early

ie you just can't macro it

[alpine wraith]

we though it would be fine for some server ticks

[pastel lark]

Hey guys, if u have both guidon and box, what do u want to use in m+? guidon line perfectly with CD but less damage

[alpine wraith]

but it seems it needs a full sync

that happens every 1 sec

so you can randomly have the updated haste or not when you use dance if you wait more than 1 sec

[crystal bone]

ahh damn okay

a bit annoying

so send with the shadowstrike before blades kinda

[tribal blade]

lol no everyone still hates DS

[alpine wraith]

even more annoying is having to track duration of guidon

so you dont lose it before sending second dance

as sec tech may be very close to 2 secs but not quite

tbh as long as it is like less than 3 secs in the evis strike sec tech

think i will do a thing about this to clarify a bit what I don't know is how high the impact is

but having supercharger on sec tech is big

[crystal bone]

surely theres an easy way to track it

[alpine wraith]

you can track it somewhat with some addon for sure

i will check if i find one although i remember maybe MSUF should work for it

[crystal bone]

i mean i can track to see if its off cd with bcm, but idk about duration

[alpine wraith]

ideally i ask someone if they can make something with like a sec tech that has SAFE and checks for guidon duration and sec tech cd

[crystal bone]

regardless if u make it within the guidon duration or not, u still wanna send the 2nd sectec im assuming

and a dance

[left ledge]

i dont think its possible to track trinket buffs

[alpine wraith]

yea but if you try to get the 2 secs off cd on sec tech and lose guidon buff

you just lost the extend on second dance

and if you send too early you just lost blades duration for nothing

if you already waited a bit

[crystal bone]

i like the new haste

[alpine wraith]

i think i would like it more if we had more ways to get bursts of haste

in different cd timers

just to feel the old krangle

just to make sure not even dozens play this krangled spec

[crystal bone]

it feels so good with lust at least

[alpine wraith]

yea that is why im debating if we maybe try to get the next limit break

problem is getting that extra haste is munching other important stats

and may lose dps that way anyway

even if rotation feels more smooth

[crystal bone]

i miss being the only leather that wanted vers gear

now it seems like no1 wants vers gear

[sullen hare]

Not even dh?

[crystal bone]

maybe tanks, not sure actually

[sullen hare]

I know havoc used to love vers like us

[warm marlin]

Can do it with arcui custom bars

15s custom bar with a timer start condition of getting the 15s guidon buff

[fickle lotus]

Is there a downside of using fist weapon in off-hand?

[burnt loom]

im still not used to wanting haste, muscle memory didnt kick in. I see gear with mastery haste and first reaction is ew, a trash!

[crystal bone]

yes

[left ledge]

!sht

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[left ledge]

rip

oh there we go

[vale pine]

weapon speed i very slow on non daggers, so you lose a lot of sht procs, means its not good

[fickle lotus]

oh thank you

[vale pine]

you can use transmog to make your daggers look like non daggers

[slate nest]

whenever is see sht i think "shit haha"

[vale pine]

^^

[fickle lotus]

thats why i am asking, thats all i got

[vale pine]

haha ye

[slate nest]

my mind is so immature istg

[broken saffron]

It isnt worth saving hero crests, right? Since upgrades will be free if I get a new item?

[soft oriole]

Technically it’s better to get hero 3/6 in every slot before sending crests in their respective slots

But that’s a pure efficiency thing that does not matter that much

[ember yarrow]

What do you do in this case, do you save secret technique? or do you use?

And can someone help me understand this? i know it's to build shadow technique.. but why save finishing move?

And at how many bubbles short can you case eviscerate or black powder?

[open depot]

Bubbles short?

[ember yarrow]

from full bubble

[uneven ocean]

combo points?

[open depot]

What is a bubble?

[ember yarrow]

combo points sorry

[hazy breach]

well if you spend your cp

How are you supposed to be at full cp for your sectech+dance

[crystal bone]

bubbles 🤣

[ember yarrow]

what about this, do you use secrete technique, or do u save?

[open depot]

I should call her 😔

[vale pine]

you would use dance + secret typically

blades is still close to 20 sec away

[open depot]

Better to hold blades for a few than SD + SecTec 🙂‍↕️

[open swan]

whats the dps loss on not having optimal haste?

[left ledge]

sim it

its impossible to give an answer to that

[open swan]

im on 621 haste, but my dps feels ass , and im wondering if its a resulto f that

[left ledge]

depending on what "ass" is to you maybe but maybe not

[sacred gull]

hello guys, just checking, it's not trolling to make boots 285 as second craft after weapon ?

[left ledge]

before tier and without a breakpoint you will be suffering compared to other specs for sure

[open swan]

this is just now, on h vorasius

[hollow raptor]

Make a belt

[sacred gull]

why ?

I feel like it's easier to farm mythic belt on chimerus

and same stats

[left ledge]

its not the same stats

you'd go crit mastery on belt

the chim belt is crit -> heavy haste

[sacred gull]

it's not bad then

[radiant swift]

did the recraft bug get fixed ?

[left ledge]

its not bad, but it is worse

[sacred gull]

I can balance with enchants

[left ledge]

and you can get good boots off skyreach

you cant balance that with enchants

[sacred gull]

it's luck based

[left ledge]

idk what that even means

[sacred gull]

ha yeah, the eye enchant indeed

I forgot this one

[left ledge]

yes

[radiant swift]

100%?

[open swan]

why is my shadowblades damage so low?

[left ledge]

i recraft this

[radiant swift]

anecdotal evidence tho

[left ledge]

my whole guild

recrafted

[hollow raptor]

It is fixed

[radiant swift]

aight aight ty guys

[hollow raptor]

Recrafted my dagger to 285 as well

[grave cradle]

were ur daggers 259 or hero crested alrdy when u recrafted?

[left ledge]

259

[sacred gull]

259

[grave cradle]

good

[hollow raptor]

They were 259

Crafting with heroes would be psycho

[grave cradle]

yep

[sacred gull]

don't waste crest on weapon

jsut go for mythic weap directly

[grave cradle]

just asking bcs the bug only applied to 259 weapons apparently

[sacred gull]

ok

[radiant swift]

@valid yoke

[rustic cobalt]

In fear of sounding really stupid, tried to fix my parses so I been watching a lot of Warcraftlog “replay” both mythic plus and raid. Seen tons of times that top parses doesn’t always aligne their shadow dance and sec tech they send shadow dance and later in dance send sec tech, in which scenario would you do this?

[fallow nimbus]

How much haste has "bis" gear?

[left ledge]

im not sure, but you want to aim for 684-700 haste

[half coral]

worth proc AA before SD -> SecTec?

[left ledge]

premed bugs AA out

so that doesnt work

[soft oriole]

It’s a 4 set optimisation

[left ledge]

proc AA -> shadow dance = AA will not work for your first finisher unless you proc it again

[left ledge]

its when you want to get blades time in dance

if blades has 4 sec remaining, my sectec is on a 5 sec cd and i have dance up

i will dance

[hollow raptor]

U just wanna fit dances into blades

[fallow nimbus]

My sims want to drop haste a lot and i am already around 660, so i probably go for mast/haste crafted wrists with hc for now dreamrift belt

[half coral]

my parse is terrible, though that might be the problem

[left ledge]

parses are quite useless to look at right now

[hollow raptor]

There's a chance ur parse is bad because you're not greeding insanely omega hard on killing adds

[left ledge]

you are most likely severely outgeared

[hollow raptor]

Which is what like 90% of ppl are doing

[left ledge]

thats not true either

its just a gear angle

most of the time you cant really greed damage on these bosses

the only example of maybe being able to pad is on dragons

[still gazelle]

4pc and Guidon feel like a QoL increase.

It's nice.

[sacred gull]

yes it feels a bit like in TWW dmg wise

[west arch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[open swan]

anyone able to comment on why my deepz so bayed? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wr9YdZXMbnqP2NDt?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=23

[ember frost]

yoo do you use puzzle trinket before pull or during pull?

[still gazelle]

Other than it being a gold sinkhole, are there REALLY any downsides to macroing your pot to your big DPS macro?

Because normally you'd want to sync them right?

[sharp peak]

are we just grabbing haste in AA and not thinking about it? or is there more min/max to that if you're at breakpoint?

[still gazelle]

My opener feels clunky currently it's SStrike - Guidon - Pot - SecTec/Blades/Dance macro

[hazy breach]

Literally anything but the haste

The haste is useless

[sharp peak]

lol fair enough

[still gazelle]

Oh uhh.. Good to know... Which dragon is mastery?

[hazy breach]

Get the vers

[hollow raptor]

Vers is based

[still gazelle]

My haste with 4pc and guidon is now like 550 so it was a bit lower than I thought I needed it to be.

[chilly kite]

blue

[still gazelle]

Black dragon is vers yh?

[soft oriole]

Crit I assume

[hazy breach]

Well the haste from academy isnt rating

Its %

So it doesnt work on deepening

[soft oriole]

One of the back 2 is vers

Either green or the other guy

[hazy breach]

Vers is the one right next to the stairs

Red

[soft oriole]

That one

[still gazelle]

Eleem, are my stats scuffed? https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/proudmoore/Niralath

[chilly kite]

blue = master, bronze = haste, red = verse, black = crit, green = healing.

[soft oriole]

I ain’t gonna lie, I was just taking the mastery one because it’s first in the wowhead stat priority list

[balmy pollen]

Mastery always best stat in m+

[open swan]

guys what am i doing wrong if my shadow blades damage is low overall? some people manage to have it around 3rd/4th on their logs?

[balmy pollen]

Or vers for survivability

[hazy breach]

Well the vers VS mastery comparison in academy specifically isnt 1 mastery vs 1 vers

[soft oriole]

It’s probably a 4 set diff

[old spindle]

Anyone happen to know the exact haste value Raidbots is setting us to?

[hazy breach]

You get way more vers than you get mastery, relatively

[soft oriole]

Consider me educated

[chilly kite]

cries in rogue, perfecto didn't even break top 10 in mythic kill...

[leaden prairie]

guys

i was told it wasnt another sub tier

why do i feel like i was lied to

[chilly kite]

can't be a sub tier if its a nothing tier for us

[sage meteor]

Is it normal that i dont have a second shadow dance ready after using my second shadow daggers in an extended fight? The cooldown just doesnt line up for me

[soft oriole]

Yeah I think it’s a reroll tier if you really care about being optimal

But you shouldn’t care, play what’s fun. Unless you’re in a giga guild, at that point I don’t know how you have to play

[elfin pendant]

Blows my mind how blizzard can have a 3 dps spec class with no real raid buff and all 3 specs are shit and be like "yup this looks good"

[soft oriole]

I honestly think we’re just okay. Our biggest let down is our raid buff atm. It’s just a ranged tier

[hollow spear]

Have you missed the news? It's not even a rogue tier

[soft oriole]

Crazy though how dks have been sad about their ‘raid buff’, but it’s actually kinda bis now

Because blizzard design fights for it now

What would be enough to make ours good, like 4-5% dr instead?

I know you could rework it entirely, but they probably don’t want to do that

[elfin pendant]

Just give us a fucking crit buff we apply when we hit a target.

[pastel lark]

Do u huys use guidon or the box in m+?

[jovial garnet]

box outperforms guidon in m+ afaik

[crystal bone]

appreciate the napkin math sir

im clicking red dragon from now on

[void ocean]

its like asking if im driving lambo or ferrari 😄

[stuck arrow]

I like guidon.

But my healer been giving me the mastery buff trinket 24/7 in M+.

Plus puzzle box cast time. 💤

[pastel lark]

yes exactly, and it fit perfectly with our cd, no need to delay anything

[old spindle]

brb gotta solve the mysteries of the universe. OK now i can pump

[jaunty heath]

im rostered only for averzian this week, is there any tech ? seems like just send boss on cds

[old spindle]

most bosses are tbh

a few outliars but ye. full beans

[crystal bone]

yea on cd

only one im not sure about is dragons

[jaunty heath]

seems like melee gang not eating good this season

[chilly kite]

this tier is just send, and make sure your damage meter goes down to like top 15 in mythic so you can see yourself lol

[old spindle]

dragons is a toss up. you could send on add in intermission or hold for end of intermission

[hollow spear]

the tech is to craft your mythic dagger so they bench you for that one too

[jaunty heath]

he dont drop dagger

[crystal bone]

oh and saladbar, seems like they hold for every damage amp

after on pull

idk about mythic, no rogues there

[compact violet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stuck arrow]

I mean ranged tuned just as well from a numbers perspective, and then ranged has like literally zero mechanics this tier. 😂

[chilly kite]

whats the over under on getting litterly any tuneing for tuesday?

[jaunty heath]

what can you do, atro poison need rework if it suppose to be considered real raid buff

[stuck arrow]

Probably pretty low.

I think we're honestly in a fine spot outside of two to three target cleave.

Problem is no real utility and outliers.

Plus rwf started already.

[chilly kite]

voracious is pretty much ST, and perfecto didn't even break top 10 damage

same with exile last night

[wispy cedar]

"Problem is no real utility and outliers." THIS

[chilly kite]

we made up the fact our raid buff was meh every tier, by being blasters. on at least one of our specs

[hollow spear]

ig the argument is that the top guilds have the luxury to bring multiple copies of overperforming classes

[stuck arrow]

Like how you justify bringing a rogue when Marksmen is... Marksmen, and these fights are these fights?

[hollow spear]

then being average means that you are below average, so to speak

[jaunty heath]

its like almost any ranged is better than us

[hollow spear]

is something cooked with raidbots? it won't let me top gear crafted items

[chilly kite]

we are vanilla ret pally now, except its all 3 of our specs

[jaunty heath]

ret pala actually blast

[chilly kite]

yea but ret was a meme in vanilla

[winged anvil]

They’re doing another tuning pass after this week, yeah?

[lethal thorn]

Dang our poison isnt good enough to bring to rwf from the liquid kills xd

[hazy breach]

Well you cant craft the blue item at that ilvl

[jaunty heath]

he have more buttons than we do too now its funny

[stuck arrow]

Problem is blizzard doesn't consider utility into power budget. Just raw numbers.

[hazy breach]

Assuming you mean for it to add the agent's utility belt

[hollow spear]

yeah, nevermind me

I forgot that it's two different items

[chilly kite]

jesus what is that fury damage on salad lol

[sacred jewel]

using two active trinkets is not recommended despite raidbots suggesting it right? ranger captain has a 20s cd once i activate guidon

[hollow spear]

Perfecto top boss damage tho

[chilly kite]

where?

[hazy breach]

It's a bit annoying to need two different keybinds for 2 trinkets but it's completely fine

[hollow spear]

from what I could tell on his stream in details

[sacred jewel]

I can handle two different trinket keybinds, already been doing it

[hazy breach]

You use guidon with CDs

And the other one outside of that

[sacred jewel]

guidon with SB right

[chilly kite]

he was just looking at damage taken not done

[sacred jewel]

and the other just whenever? or also during SD window

[hazy breach]

Generally when people say don't use2 on-use its referring to stat trinkets

[sacred jewel]

I should be using a seperate keybind for guidon anywys right, due to the 0.5-1s delay

[hazy breach]

Yeah just whenever

[sacred jewel]

So archer doesn't have to be buffed up? I should use it off cd

[hazy breach]

You can't buff them

[sacred jewel]

good to know

[hollow spear]

Maybe I cannot read

But if it was damage taken it'd be a little weird, no?

[chilly kite]

you right, i musta had an ad when he was looking at that.

[hollow spear]

looks weird tho, not sure that is correct

[ember frost]

is it worth switch a hero piece for vetran if i get 4 set? or should i just wait

[raw wadi]

yes because you can get more catalyst from m+/raids

[stuck arrow]

Sim it. But likely.

Tier is very good.

[stuck arrow]

Just need to equip once for achievement.

[raw wadi]

okay but still 2pc -> 4pc is so much more worth compared to hc -> nhc

[chilly kite]

what is there to even pad on in that fight for people, that would put him not even top 10 for overall damage on the fight but highest boss damage. especially with damage amps that are boss only

[ember frost]

i got helm should in set and just got veteran set for hands and i have one chrage of cata

shoulder*

[swift tinsel]

You should get your 4pc as highest priority

[ember frost]

or should i chill cuz im running HC later today

[raw wadi]

try to finish 4pc asap... like i told you above.
Once you got 4pc you can drop catalysts. Means you can farm full heroic tierslots this week

[stuck arrow]

Yeah, just figured I'd mention. Very likely 4 PC is 100% best.

But like top gear exists. And that's definitely not the case for every spec.

[swift tinsel]

If you’re running hc later you can wait and if you don’t get it from that then you can do whatever to guarantee 4pc

[jaunty heath]

i almost tempted drop myth crest on second craft

since i waont see many bosses

[swift tinsel]

The drop rate on cata charges varies wildly

I’ve gotten one in 15 eligible activities, guildmates have gotten more doing less

[raw wadi]

but you want to farm bis gear/crest discounts anyway. Its waste if you dont have 4 pc av already

[stuck arrow]

Seems to be about 10% overall from what I can tell.

But RNG go brrrrr

[swift tinsel]

I have seen zero metrics that match with that

[coral bear]

!shiv

[tulip light]

i got 2 charges in about 30 keys from last nights farm

[coral bear]

!st

[swift tinsel]

I had a guildmate get 2x in the time it took me to make dinner lol

[tulip light]

seems very weird

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

Another hasn’t gotten any yet and he’s been doing as many as I have

So it’s very very inconsistent

[stuck arrow]

It's the same as any other loot. In heroics/ M0 you can get a drop from every boss, or you can get nothing. On average you'll get a drop per dungeon.

RNG gonna RNG.

[chilly kite]

i've used 3 charges and have 5 stored up, idk if maybe they patched them to drop less, but i was getting them every 2-3 M+ yesterday

[swift tinsel]

Just comparing it to your 10%

[stuck arrow]

It's like when you flip a coin 10 times. If you get 20 people to do it - one person very reasonably well get 1 out of 10 heads instead of 50/50.

[swift tinsel]

I know how probability works

[stuck arrow]

My 10% is guestimated based off overall from my guild and from what I've seen people saying online.

[raw wadi]

maybe people looted them already and have it in their bags

[hollow spear]

I got 6 yesterday

None last week

Feels hella random

[hoary orchid]

hey guys is there any data about how much is the 2set and 4 set buff in % of dps?

[quick marlin]

@short radish yo is there a reason u played trickster instead of DS on vorasius or did u just cba learning DS for 1 boss

[left ledge]

trickster will do more add damage

[stuck arrow]

Deathstalker bugged to shit.

Might be fixed in 12.0.5

[left ledge]

but it is worse for boss damage

there's not really much decision making in that aspect

[quick marlin]

shirley the rogue doesnt ditch 2 seconds of boss damage to go attack the adds in the back of the room

[quick marlin]

fair

[left ledge]

i mean

sort by boss damage then

the diff isnt big anyways between trickster and DS

also its not really up to you whether you go to the back or not

if you're fixated, you're going back

[hazy breach]

Idk its actually insanely close

Between the two

[stuck arrow]

Not worth 4% extra ST damage when 20% of the time you lose 15% damage instead of gain damage because your hero talent don't work.

.8×1.04+0.2×.85=1.002.

Basically negligible.

[hazy breach]

So why bother with ds

[quick marlin]

fair

[left ledge]

i mean DS is not going to bug out on vorasius

[quick marlin]

whats the bug w ds?

[left ledge]

also

vorasius cant parry

[stuck arrow]

The mark disappears.

[hollow spear]

I thought mark could just disappear

[left ledge]

you know ive seen that

but ive played DS maybe more in the raids than any other rogue has

and ive never had mark bug out on me

so i have no idea what could even trigger that

i even played DS on chimaerus

i thought for sure it would bug out there

[hazy breach]

If you send DN into something that evades or is literally the killing blow

Those are the most common

[left ledge]

ah

[hazy breach]

Or maybe its if the mob dies before DN

But while you have eviscerate castd

[left ledge]

i think its if it dies as you cast evis

yeah

[stuck arrow]

It happens randomly.

Guaranteed to happen if mob disappears without dying.

Also if something that's like a third party actor gets killing blow.

Also if shit happens in air and calcs stall.

[left ledge]

i really dont know about randomly

like i said, ive played DS a bit even on a boss like chimaerus

where there's a lot of potential for mark to fuck up

[valid tartan]

a little resil 12

[left ledge]

it seems fine

there's not much of a reason to play it

but its alright for what it is i guess

mark for death will be really nice qol

[stuck arrow]

I mean maybe it's fine.

Just didn't seem worth it to me. Maybe I'll mess around with it. Idk.

[left ledge]

just play trickster

thats pretty much the safe bet on every boss

[graceful osprey]

Did a +11 the other day…M+ seems easier than before

[left ledge]

i mean 11s arent meant to be hard i think

the scaling ramps up after 12

[stuck arrow]

I feel like +12 is like what +6 usually is.

I like it tbh.

Will separate the people doing m+ as a chore and the people doing it for the sake of M+ a bit.

Should cool down the M+ toxicity. I hope.

[sullen hare]

It's not even nice QOL. Nice QOL would've been having that within a month of the tree launching

[graceful osprey]

11s weren’t really tough but I was 253 and it seemed pretty easy

[fiery fog]

how are we feeling about m+ sub

[left ledge]

late qol is still qol

but yeah

[valid tartan]

keys are def easy af, feels like every class is doing more dmg than usual in these levels

[sullen hare]

It's sloppy, late, and depressing

[left ledge]

well if you're a big fan of deathstalker sure

but deathstalker isnt really exciting in any capacity

[sullen hare]

It's Stockholm syndrome

[sullen hare]

We feeling v good

[alpine wraith]

deathstalker is like trying to make you care about funnelñ

but then singular focus is krangled as f

[oak grotto]

Does any1 run Elusiveness over Cheat Death?

[valid tartan]

i do

[sullen hare]

That's what upsets me so bad is that it's not even good at what it's allegedly designed to be. It's offensive

[swift tinsel]

Not yet

Might when I find stuff I can use it for

[sullen hare]

Not usually Emma. Not since nighthold

[valid tartan]

if you dont stand in swirlies it's just free defensive, tanky af

[swift tinsel]

Cheat is cozy

[valid tartan]

in raid def go cheat though

[prime mortar]

Heya, haven't play for sub for a long time, been reading FAQ and Icy guides.

Discord guide recommend to macro Shuriken storm or Secret technique to shadow dance to save some time.
However, opener on Icy veins is the following : Shadowstrike -> Trink -> Shadow Dance -> Shadow Blades -> Secret technique

If i use the macro i will loose the damage brought by SB right?
So sould I either, not use the macro, or SB before entering SD ?

[swift tinsel]

Haven’t come across anything I’d lean on elusiveness for yet

[hazy breach]

Its only free defensive if feint wasnt working already

[stuck arrow]

I like elusiveness for pugs where healing is sketchy.

Feels good to just pop a feint and not be at half health.

[lean rover]

When should we be using shuriken only at 5+ mons?

[graceful osprey]

Trash HP and boss HP felt surprisingly low when I did my +11

[swift tinsel]

Idk I don’t feel like I’m taking direct damage enough for elusiveness

[olive bear]

m+ seems super easy rn for some reason

feels a lil undertuned

[graceful osprey]

I’m not complaining but I feel the same way lol

[alpine wraith]

think it all comes to tuning they had in mind for 18+ keys and above

[swift tinsel]

They def feel easy compared to previous expansion season one dungeons atm

[alpine wraith]

remember they had plans to make vault cap at that lvl?

and saw people were crying little bitches

and just said cba

this is what you get

[stuck arrow]

I think gearing a bit wonky this xpac though too.

We over geared relative to M+ normally, but under geared relative to the raid.

Hence why liquid had to pull heroic Crown 20 times or so.

[fathom adder]

can you get catalyst charges from delves with the 4p acm?

[torn tide]

jeez

[dense geode]

why is dbl agi wep not the go to over agi/2ndary

[torn tide]

liquid had to do it that many times?

its over

[stuck arrow]

Yeah but that was at like 235 remember. 😂

[real rain]

does any of you could link me a good plater that doesnt overlapp heavily>

[torn tide]

oh true lmfao

its prob a joke to them now

[left ledge]

can you clarify what this means

you only ever use agi weapons on rogue

[alpine wraith]

they are almost the same

agi+mastery agi+agi and agi+crit are close

[left ledge]

oh is that about stat budget on offhand

[waxen matrix]

Do we have access to the PvP neck from quest chain atm? or is it time gated still?

[potent summit]

Btw quick question. Why does no one use Eye of the Eagle for rings as enchant?

[lusty narwhal]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left ledge]

im using it

[potent summit]

Me too but liquid Echo and so on don’t

But they use every other max enchant

[dense geode]

ty

[hollow spear]

Asked earlier but without success: can someone here using arcUI tell me how they managed to get guidon to work in their buff bar, please?

[left ledge]

they might be trying to hit a haste breakpoint

[stuck arrow]

Set a new bar for it, have it count down.

It's in custom bars

[left ledge]

if you need to use haste enchant to hit 684-700

then you will probably use haste enchant

[potent summit]

Hope thats the case and not that the enchant isnt Working or something

[left ledge]

just look their character up

if their haste is 684-700 with those enchants

thats why

[stuck arrow]

I think I just set a timer, iirc. I'll find it for you 8 hrs from now if I remember. Lol.

[left ledge]

also they could just be wanting to use cheap enchants

maybe its on an alt

many things to check

[warm marlin]

Custom bar 15s spell id guidon buff

[potent summit]

Saw also rogues in mythic logs using mastery enchants so Well

[left ledge]

it really depends what char you're looking at

im pretty sure some echo/liquid characters are using the cheaper gems too

[stuck arrow]

Mastery likely better for M+, too.

[left ledge]

most rogues are using eyes

[warm marlin]

Eyes goated

[stuck arrow]

And I think it makes sense for them to j use budget enchants - they have to gear friggen 20 characters. 😂

[quick marlin]

yeah for sure they care about gold

[potent summit]

Ya but the other enchants are max they using. Well I Go with Ur answer

[stuck arrow]

I doubt they care about good persay - but screwing around with it likely annoying.

[left ledge]

i mean explain this

i think they probably just dont want to spend a fuckton of gold on all their characters needlessly

also i looked up some of the rogues running haste enchant

they're only hitting breakpoint with enchant

[stuck arrow]

Also like.

Likely a pain in the ass to get 8 enchants perfect on like 12 different specs. Could be they met in the middle to keep things down where it's minor differences.

[uncut juniper]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[winter current]

Is this with hitting the 18% soft cap for haste?

[stuck arrow]

.2% here or there for a split mule kinda fine.

[potent summit]

Yes you might be Right. Could be really the answer. Thanks 🙂

[left ledge]

684-700

% is not what we look at

but the AA optimization is just always done

[uncut juniper]

about apex optimization, do we only do this 2 times per SD?

[left ledge]

no you do it basically once as trickster

and maybe twice as DS

[hollow spear]

So you're treating it like a shadow dance bar?

[vale osprey]

Yeah since as trick we insta use one on SecTec

[uncut juniper]

ty king

[left ledge]

because as trickster you need to do it on a supercharged point, the first supercharge goes into sectec, so you only have one supercharge left and that's the one you want AA on

[uncut juniper]

what about the second SD inside SB window?

[left ledge]

basically anytime you have supercharge combo and can proc apex

[winter current]

Ah, okay. I was wondering if the flat value was the better to go by

[left ledge]

proc it

[uncut juniper]

aight

[left ledge]

as DS, its any time you have supercharge OR darkest night

the optimization is quite minor anyways though

think its ~1% for trickster and ~3% for DS

[left ledge]

yes because % is affected by external buffs which ofc do affect sectec cd and your autos, but your dance duration scales purely based off the flat stat

[vale osprey]

Not played much DS, so we enter dance with storm, then do we strike for apex --> sectec --> strike for apex, evisc?

[winter current]

Oh, right. I was referring to unbuffed anyways. Basically what you see in your stat window, but I noticed that it can say 18%, but that's only showing the truncated values, and rounded up

[left ledge]

usually i stack some sht before the dance as DS

so my storm procs AA

but you also dont force apex for sectec

[vale osprey]

Even on pull?

[left ledge]

thats another thing that needs to be mentioned

you do not force AA for sectec

no not on pull

[vale osprey]

Yeah okay I thought so, you're just aa'ing evis

[left ledge]

yeah

sectec gives quite a few sht stacks

[vale osprey]

Ty mate, got my oranges in HC last night and on to myth tn, need to see if DS is the play for 2nd

[left ledge]

so can almost always AA your supercharge after sectec

DS felt fine on vorasius, i def think its more convoluted than trickster though

felt like there was a lot of moments where i lost quite a bit of dps because i didnt swap at optimal times

[trail epoch]

Is there any decent poison reminders?

[winter current]

Does this include the stats from thallasian phoenix oil as well?

[vale osprey]

I've heard NaowhQOL has functionality for reminders

Others may too

[vale osprey]

Yes it's flat haste on your character sheet

[winter current]

Aight thanks

[chilly dagger]

Hey guys!

Quick question: Im in shadow dance, lets say ~3ish seconds left. Sectec comes up.

Do I hit the sectec within that remaining blade window or do i keep holding it until I can enter a new dance window with full combopoints and initiate it with a sectec cast? Lets say next dance window is 10ish sec away?

[finite hedge]

Does eyes of the eagle rank 2 even do anything? Is the percent increase too small to show on tooltip or something?

[runic sinew]

someone knows if raidbots is considering haste cap for sub? I'm simming my character, I don't cap haste yet but bot is changing my gear for crit.

[chilly dagger]

Same for me, im at 11% ~390ish haste, I sim with Haste Flask though so thats another 165 on top, but it is not simming me to reach the 18%, it always wants to go more into Mastery+crit for me

[crystal bone]

it is not a "cap" but rather diminishing returns

[vale osprey]

If you can get 2 sectecs in blades you'd do that

[west bluff]

Guys, i asked yesterday but couldn't get an aswer - i know it's not ideal, but currently i have emberwing feather and puzzlebox 266. Should I treat puzzlebox as top-prio with SB and then emberwing every other SD/SC outside SB?

[finite hedge]

its pretty much a cap. from ~700 to next break point haste is basically worthless

[vale osprey]

Sim it and see which it uses

[north schooner]

it does, it's just that blizzard's tooltips round it to be useless information. It's 0.75% for r1 and 1.25% for r2

[finite hedge]

ah, thanks

[alpine wraith]

tooltips are potato like your name

rank 1 is 0.75 and rank 2 1.25

it is a very strong enchant

ah someone already answered well

[shadow lance]

Not for haste

It's more a "treshold"

[stuck arrow]

Not really worthless persay, but just worth less than other stats.

I've got 799 haste, and it's still like 80% of the value I get from crit and mastery.

[shadow lance]

700 make you sure to fit a second GCD in dance, but it's useless to get unless you got enough to get a 3rd

And so on, and so on

[stuck arrow]

I mean it's not useless.

It lowers your CD on SecTec & gives you more auto attacks / ShT procs.

It's effectively multiplicative with both crit and mastery in that way.

[vale osprey]

It's not useless but where would you rather have those stats? And the answer is in mastery and crit

[remote rapids]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

method dont play rogue either hehe

fun

[stuck arrow]

Obviously hitting more gcds in dance is a huge break point that adds mega damage. And lining up dance and SecTec initially.

But even without more globals in dance, you're getting two sectecs in blades & getting more and more energy outside of dance, etc.

Haste doesn't really become a bad stat. It's maybe not the best after you hit 700, but it's not like it kills an item or something.

[remote rapids]

is there a big downside to second craft being bracers vs belt? i have a good heroic belt and crap bracers?

[shadow lance]

OKay, lemme re-write

700 make you sure to fit a second GCD in dance, but it's way less stronger than Mastery/crit to get, unless you got enough to get a 3rd

[raven phoenix]

dumb question but fairly new to rogue, what abiltiies or talents passively apply or refresh slice and dice?

[shadow lance]

Eviscerate for sub

Envenom for Assa and Dispatch for outlaw

All under the passive : "cut to the chase"

[stuck arrow]

I don't even think way less strong. Like I said, I have 799 haste and literally right now it sims as 80% the value of mastery and crit.

Idk. We're splitting hairs I think. We agree on the general premise, I just think your language is very absolutist and will cause confusion and a bunch of people coming in here saying the Sims are buggered.

[stuck arrow]

They're baseline.

[stuck arrow]

I also just generally think the stat weight discussion is a red herring due to the multiplicative nature of stats.

Get 700 haste - outside of that, trust the sim.

[warm marlin]

Ye but dance doesn’t require a custom one

[dry plank]

But but poison smthing? 🙂

[raven phoenix]

so for an aoe opener, i will have to include one Slice and Dice or wait for a Coup De Grace essentially? Since black powder doesnt apply or refresh

[valid yoke]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[shadow lance]

Wait for coup

[shadow lance]

You simming stats weight ?

Cuz I don't think is a reliable way to know the stats strenght

All I know, is that the bot consider to put more Mastery/Crit than haste if I go over 700

[wind flicker]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[stuck arrow]

I did sim it, to check what I saw from my experience - but normally I use top gear.

And I've had top gear tell me to equip 900 haste earlier this tier. So. Lol.

Might just be my funky great drops though, idk. Anyway. I'm not sure what your point is, we agree I just was nitpicking your language to minimize confusion.

[waxen lintel]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lethal thorn]

anyone who has played in key with an aug ? cause i did some nutty dps i was 1.5x the other dps.

[full spade]

their whole thing do be buffing you

[lethal thorn]

yeah i figured when i was crushing everyone on the meter

[meager creek]

When you fight lightblinded vanguard do you black power on 2 ?

And build with storm?

[swift tinsel]

Construction crew accidentally cut through the fiber to my apartment

There goes my day of grinding

[sullen hare]

https://cdn.7tv.app/emote/01F6MKTFTG0009C9ZSNZTFV2ZF/2x.avif

[swift tinsel]

Gonna miss heroic tonight which is so awesome

[golden totem]

If you play potent powder, as you should on this fight, then yes

[barren haven]

Can u hotspot through your phones mobile network maybe?

[golden totem]

Yes, outside of dance
No inside dance

[stuck arrow]

Raid on mobile Wi-Fi hotspot? 😂

Steal neighbors Internet?

[meager creek]

Thanks ❤️

[swift tinsel]

Might have to pick up a WiFi card lol

[sullen hare]

get that pringles cantenna

[golden totem]

Can't you just use ur smartphone internet

[tawny peak]

Is there any way i can get a sound or a flash proc or SOMETHING when I get a combo point refund?

[stuck arrow]

Maybe he means PC doesn't have a Wi-Fi card.

USB ones are good and cheap btw.

[swift tinsel]

My pc does not have built-in WiFi

[inland glacier]

What's the best race for a rogue right now?

[hollow spear]

Yeah, just meant in principle. I could swear I saw other CDM who just treat it like an icon, the same way they'd treat escalating blades and such

[honest void]

man it's wild to see how bad we are on Paladins

[lilac stag]

has liquid even run a rogue in any fights? I’ve not been able to watch anything

[acoustic dust]

They ran a rogue on vorasius

because it drops a dagger...

[lilac stag]

no dagger for the the 5 hunters

[pastel geyser]

dwarf op

[inland glacier]

panda, no?

[stuck arrow]

Panda most DPS

[lilac stag]

rogue be down bad. awesome.

[stuck arrow]

Dwarf usually best at the of xpac.

[lilac stag]

nelf good for m+ and mogs

[pastel geyser]

smh dwarf racial is bis for m+

[stuck arrow]

Nelf is BiS in mogs.

[inland glacier]

for raid, is panda?

i need more dps

im orc maghar

[lilac stag]

nah. Not everything can be removed and just juking casts kinda goes hard

[stuck arrow]

NElf is actually cracked with this set of mythic dungeons btw.

[lilac stag]

Try a different class

[stuck arrow]

Shadowmeld kills all of the focused mechanics.

As does vanish.

[lilac stag]

yep

[wintry heart]

Thank you for this reminder I need to bind meld

[stuck arrow]

Like that robot Lazer that drops pools. The stupid birds in skyreach. Etc.

[latent plover]

do we have anything for precum?

prekey?*

[stuck arrow]

Every single dungeon has multiple of them. 😂

Popping meld is actually goated and feels great.

[soft oriole]

Are the sims for the crown of the cosmos neck bugged? Or is it dependant on other factors because it does not sim good for me

[silk fiber]

Generation stumble there

[crystal bone]

is there a way to track the 6 second window needed for TFD?

hmm or maybe a buff on CDM showing TFD is ready

[sly shore]

If I get sectech back at the end of 2nd dance in cd's do I send

[hazy breach]

Neither

[sly shore]

also we have zero 2/3t cleave now

absolutely diabolical

[golden totem]

you can usb plug ur phone and its works too. Ive done it plenty of times

[lilac stag]

@crystal bone just look at the multiple buffs in the upper right corner and figure out if it’s up!

[west tide]

chat chat its good no rogues are in

cause we gonna get buffed so hard

[vale osprey]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[crystal bone]

lovely

[lilac stag]

Sure glad they nerfed the fuck out of us in prepatch. Right chat?

I’ll laugh my ass off if rogue doesn’t see play at all from liquid.

[silk fiber]

To much aoe, needs another nerf

[stuck arrow]

Bruh we would have been so op with an extra 15% AoE. We might do half of MMs damage on Paladins.

[lilac stag]

next dagger boss on reset

[west tide]

did echo play perfecto

i saw he cranked some chim

[lilac stag]

The 8% aura nerf was overkill. Only giving 3 back is lulz

arms got a bigger buff and they were ahead.

[keen dome]

don't worry the +1% BP buff will come

[lilac stag]

Chat remember when we felt bad for arms? Chat?