subtlety

[hazy lichen]

its not even getting the haste buff from the trinket on first sd from delaying

[tepid trellis]

fairly sure it insta snaps in sims

its just on servers it doesent

server ticks and what not

[elfin hound]

i do what bot simms, but 568 haste feels pretty low

[trail bison]

with haste pot?

[left ledge]

Well the sim is based off your gear and stats

[steel horizon]

Is that with alacrity?

[left ledge]

Alacrity did not impact dance time

Only your haste stat does

[steel horizon]

Ah

[left ledge]

Not the %

The actual stat number

[steel horizon]

Right. Forgot about that

[loud wharf]

New to simming in retail. Just wanting to make sure I am simming for Raid properly. I understand we sim dungeon slice for M+

[elfin hound]

no

[tepid trellis]

thats my haste with oils

[hazy lichen]

is this too much raw haste

[elfin hound]

i could swap easily for some more haste and dont lose ilvl, but bot said no 🙁

[winter junco]

i hate that the puzzle box is a good trinket

[left ledge]

No, after the breakpoint haste is still good

[winter junco]

they should make it at least that it does not break stealth when casting

[left ledge]

Just not as good as mastery and crit

Still better than vers

[deft moss]

so i precast puzzle box and line it up with shadow blades i assume?

[tepid trellis]

haste value skyrocketed for me with the on-use trinket

[deft moss]

using these

[winter junco]

yeah so you will have to wait 3 mins to use it instead of 2 sometimes

[hazy lichen]

can someone tell me why this waits to use shadowdance after first one ends instead using sm and vanish https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6K77ynrSRwZu8Z2v4h6oCV

[deft moss]

ok so i dont hold blades for 30s unless i wont get another use anyways?

[mental kettle]

holding blades for puzzlebox 💀 🔫

[winter junco]

Yea dont hold blades

[wind whale]

Hi! Can u guys help me with something ? Last time i played rogue the sec tec was bugged at the logs showing separated dmg from the rogue, is it still an issue ? If yes how do i fix it ?

[hazy breach]

Im not sure i understand the question

You cannot dance while dance is up

[hazy lichen]

yea

but it doesnt use dance until like 6 seconds after first one ends

[drifting fable]

my sim completely stopped telling me to get haste when im at like 620 and i have guidon

[plush roost]

Not really only when the logger is really far away from you

[mental kettle]

Why does my sim seem to stop at like 600-650 haste instead of 650-700 like the guides say?
Because you are (hopefully) a human playing the game on a server you are likely to have a few milliseconds of delay here and there, whereas the sim does not. Therefore its better to have some additional leeway that the robot does not need.

[hazy breach]

Its waiting for sectech to be ready since you have guidon active, but unfortunately you dont yet have the tier set so its probably not ideal

Once you get the tierset its super fine though

[plush roost]

Shadowmeld

[hazy breach]

I cant say weve optimized the sim too much for playing without tierset

since its just assumed everybody will have it after like week 2 or 3

And especially not without tierset but with the bis trinket

[north garnet]

do we get catalyst charge next reset?

[mental kettle]

no

unless u get 2k

[hazy breach]

Like you should probably use dance a bit earlier so you get it all in blades

[vale osprey]

Not by default but you'll get it for 2k score

[north garnet]

i cant get them from both pvp and m+ right?

i only get one from those

[mental kettle]

one or the other

never both

[north garnet]

i see thanks

[tame terrace]

is the first strike after dance stull bugged damage

[hazy breach]

Not bugged damage, but there is a delay before you can use strike

[tame terrace]

k

[hazy breach]

Whereas storm has no delay

(0.2s, which kinda matters when our dances have this weird ass timing)

[tame terrace]

was the storm thing for both ds/ts?

[cloud quail]

Hello everyone maybe i'm stupid but i don't get why this macro (sorry for the french names) doesn't work now when it did a few days ago. It works if I go get my rank 2 potions in the bank but if I wanna use my rank 1 one's in my bag it doesn't let me. And also in wowhead's macro the potion is used after Sec Tech but i'm wondering if putting it first changes something

[hazy breach]

Yes, but trickster wants to enter dance at full cp

So in practice its only for DS

[tame terrace]

bet

[left ledge]

whats really weird

is this

but again idk if there's a point in looking at these sims without tier

[hazy lichen]

yea i saw that too

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[left ledge]

yeah it seems to be going for the apex

but why is it storming as trickster

[frosty sinew]

probably because trinket is about to run out and it's how it ended up

[hazy breach]

Ye its snapshotting your trinket

[fresh stream]

i ahve a question

[frosty sinew]

if trinket was gonna end with full cp

[left ledge]

ooh

[frosty sinew]

it would use evis with dance

[left ledge]

is that because of the

stance delay

ok

yeah that makes sense now

thats so niche lmao

[hazy breach]

Yes

[frosty sinew]

eleem have you actually tested the delay needed for guidon btw

that shit seems so incomsistent

[snow finch]

is gaze not even better than warbanner on same ilv ? got gutted that hard ?

[hazy breach]

No but somebody else did a linked me some logs, they said ~0.25 or so

[frosty sinew]

i was testing the other night on dummy and

[fresh stream]

what does ancient art proc do other than store double combo points

[hazy breach]

But yeah idk

[frosty sinew]

sometimes it workd with .3 seconds

[left ledge]

ya was moreso wondering why not strike over storm, but i guess there was not enough time left on the trinket buff to go through stance delay to strike

[frosty sinew]

sometimes it didnt work with .4

[hazy breach]

The first one does big damage

[hazy breach]

[hazy lichen]

stance delay?

[hazy breach]

Jank ass spec

[fresh stream]

so should i be castting shadowstrike twice to get proc on spenders?

before eviscerate

[hazy breach]

Yeah its always storming if it enters at low cp, because of that delay

[fresh stream]

or powder

[hazy breach]

But you just almost never end up dancing at low cp as trickster besides that niche situation

[left ledge]

there's a slight delay before you can actually shadowstrike after entering dance, and because we need that 0.2 sec of dance to actually fit an extra gcd in, you end up needing to use storm since that's not bound to the stealth stance

so the trinket was running out, it wanted to snapshot dance, so it went in at low cp

[hazy breach]

I did some other apl touches and im probably just gonna restrict that storm line to deathstalker only, because its so rare for trickster but its very confusing when people see it

(its neutral in damage)

[weak vector]

hungering victory in heroic dropped for me. Worth pounding it with crests to max it since it's BIS until myth track?

[tame terrace]

gdi ive been doing the opener wrong thsi whole time

stab evis dance stab st rip

[warm marlin]

Not if you think you have a remote chance of getting a myth dagger anytime within the next 4 weeks

[weak vector]

prob not tbh lol

[warm marlin]

Including via craft

[frosty sinew]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aCnBDkHrTLfZ1bVX?fight=6&type=auras&source=3&view=timeline @hazy breach

like this one has 0.5~ delay and it doesnt even give the extra dance time

[vocal rock]

What are we doing with our hero crests rn?

[vale osprey]

You won't be spending myth crests on your crafted dagger?

[warm marlin]

I’m currently giving mega delay with guidon because I don’t trust it

[warm marlin]

Saving them!

[frosty sinew]

i have just been using it right after the shadowstrike to open

[vale osprey]

Saving them until next week when we farm 3/6 hero items from 10s

[weak vector]

Are myth crests going to be ridiculous to get as a casual?

[north garnet]

no

[vocal rock]

Good plan, same here

[vale osprey]

How casual we talking? They drop from what? 7s?

[weak vector]

I guess my concern is actually getting into groups since I have never had the best luck

I have to pug everything

[vale osprey]

You can run your own key up to 7s mate

[frosty sinew]

pretty sure its 9s for myth crests

[vale osprey]

+2 --> +5 (+3 it) --> +7s

[vale osprey]

Since when?

[vale osprey]

Oh they changed it

Rip

[pastel grove]

should i be saving my 2nd puzzle box use for my 2nd or 3rd shadow blades

[frosty sinew]

3rd

[weak vector]

T11 delves should give myth too, no?

[frosty sinew]

not worth holding blades for puzzlebox to come up

[tribal vortex]

you need level 4 delver journey

[frosty sinew]

unless you ownt get another cast ofit anyways*

[weak vector]

Shit, you're right. I'm only 2

[tribal vortex]

yeah all of us

we need like 2-3 weeks unless you ultra spam maybe

[weak vector]

Didnt know they were timegating the XP gains

[hazy light]

Question for Sub rotation helper. I don't use it, but I do keep an eye on the highlights as I was learning the spec. It keeps recommending Shadow Dance, even without Secret Technic up. Is that me or?

[tribal vortex]

the good xp gains are the weekly quest and bountiful delves so kinda limited.

[vale osprey]

In blades we use one without (until 4p)

[hazy light]

Yeah, this is outside of blades. I never cap Dance, so why is the rotation helper telling me to cast it in between Technic CD

[frosty sinew]

because it's not optimal

the rotation helper i mean

[analog granite]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pxjLXjf1qKVahTt17Lz1C1 how the hell is gaze of the alnseer not an upgrade to me

According to wowhead it's supposed to be S tier for sub

Do I just need the haste from the other trinket that bad?

[frosty sinew]

well tbf you cant get either of those trinkets at myth level

[trail mango]

The flag trink from the first boss in The raid is our bis as far as I know

[analog granite]

that's in S tier along with gaze yes

[lucid jackal]

Got nerfed and I don't think its updated since then

[fiery fog]

deathstalker on vorasius and saladbar feels quite alright tbh

[tulip light]

hello guys - how come death stalker doesnt afford 1 point in sec tech from the 2/2 finality?

[hazy lichen]

anyone know what the hunter discord is called

[analog granite]

Trueshot lodge

[warm marlin]

yes

your haste is very low

[vale osprey]

If Gaze was nerfed what's our go-to passive trink? Feather?

[frosty sinew]

probably still gaze or plume

[wicked bear]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[warm marlin]

it's still gaze

[paper violet]

at how many target is black powder > evis, and same q for shuriken storm > backstab/shadow strike?

[frosty sinew]

#subtlety-faq

[hazy lichen]

Yo is there a way to track guidon on cdm

[tough lagoon]

should be in FAQ

[warm marlin]

addons can do it

base blizzard ui cannot

[oak maple]

is patchwerk 1 target the play for sims or should we do something like cleave add/hectic add cleave? this raid doesnt really have pure ST right?

[warm marlin]

your secondary stat priority doesn't really change except in bigger cleave once you start purely bping so patchwerk 1target is fine imo

all it really does is move a bit more crit into mast

[oak maple]

it just puts heavy prio on crit for me

and puts me below the 18% haste point

[warm marlin]

this is what it put me to which with flask and oils makes me 687 haste exact

[pulsar cape]

good week

[tulip light]

this trinket combo made me kms in raid 🙂

[frail kindle]

yeah those are the lowest qol trinkets lmao

[cloud barn]

So if I’m reading correctly, if you have a haste active trinket, you’d hit that + shadowblades prior to hitting dance+sectec so that dance benefits from the haste, bc otherwise if you macro them together due to the delay, dance wouldn’t benefit from the added haste?

[tulip light]

the one you afk and press pause for 2s the other you cant see at all

[oak maple]

did you manually change the flask setting to haste flask?

[warm marlin]

yes

[oak maple]

ah fair

[warm marlin]

no way i can hit 700 without it

just dont have the haste pieces

[tribal vortex]

Is there a way to set rank 1 pots etc in raid bots? couldn't find it yesterday

[tulip light]

tbh its fine to just get around 550 from gear and use haste flask no? either way or the other doesnt rly matter in total? if we get the haste from gear we just use mast flask

or am i stupid?

[warm marlin]

most optimal is probably having one keybind for trinket you press a little before, then hitting a blades/dance/st macro. can also just macro blades with guidon if you don't care that much

[oak maple]

nelf is baiting me with the evening 1% haste

[warm marlin]

yes doesnt matter

its a little annoying if you want to do dungeons or something without flasking

[oak maple]

but these are my stats rn (761 haste stat)

[cloud barn]

Oh this makes sense too - trinket bind and keep the combod ability bind

[vale pine]

quite good, i assume with 4p already?

[frail kindle]

get absolutely mogged

[hazy lichen]

what is this

[tough lagoon]

you guys going box or feather for on use?

[shrewd lantern]

guidon

[tough lagoon]

@shrewd lantern I UNDERSTAND lmao i cant get it

[cloud barn]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[cloud barn]

And on the above, do you only fish for apex procs if all 3 are true, or whenever you’re in dance

[tulip light]

is this as trickster or ds?

[frail kindle]

ds

[tulip light]

ah

[warm marlin]

no way yall are inflating sim numbers with ds

crazy

[frail kindle]

ds not bad

[tulip light]

max sim dps wins

[frail kindle]

well

idk how mythic is

heroic adds just feel like padding

just let the op god tier casters kill all the adds while we tunnel boss

[hazy lichen]

is the main stat difference on trickster and ds just the haste difference

[warm marlin]

i will be tunneling boss while not getting parried

[weak vector]

Anything specific to funnel champ crests into, or do we just send it?

[north garnet]

do you just macro it in the blades?

is there any snapshot issue?

[warm marlin]

yes there is snapshot issue

[north garnet]

thank youu

[lyric iris]

tips, aways dellay up the shadow blades to lineup with this?

[tulip light]

whats a snapshot issue xd

[warm marlin]

no pretend its a 3min trinket

[glacial hinge]

do we use lights company guidon with the blades or before to increase haste?=

[frail kindle]

lowkey think alleria is a sin fight anyway

[warm marlin]

agree

[keen dome]

Lightblined Vanguard is such a weird boss

[frail kindle]

i have seen much weirder bosses

[keen dome]

Sorry, I mean specifically as Sub

I miss the cleave

[frail kindle]

oh yeah

[keen dome]

Also comically easier than the duo dragon boss. Like what

[frail kindle]

sub would feel horrible that fight

[keen dome]

It did

[glass kelp]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frail kindle]

i did ok damage as outlaw

i was like top 6 in my raid

[keen dome]

I did terrible. Worst DPS in the group by far.

[warm marlin]

are you maintaining 2 gearsets

ds is only 1% ahead of trickster with my current stuff on

[frail kindle]

as of right now my gear is very yolo

im kinda losing my mind doing this shit though

like every spec wants different amounts of haste and shit

im just using flasks mainly

[warm marlin]

im carrying like 5 different sets of gems and ring enchants + the flasks to fix haste every time i get a new piece of gear

very cool

[frail kindle]

yeah i almost just want to one trick a spec

[marble sail]

how much haste value did we want to have, sure 18%ish but how much is it

[frail kindle]

like is this shit really worth it xd

[keen dome]

high5 carrying a bag of gear

[warm marlin]

thats also why im playing trickster

idk ds can brick itself and it's only 1% ahead for my profile

[gentle temple]

How does the repu trinket performs in raidbots? Does it sims always with 4 upgrades?

[warm marlin]

do i want to think about standing behind to not get parried the entire fight and think extra about positioning rn to get 1% damage

[hazy lichen]

do dummies in dornogal take more damage

[frail kindle]

honestly ur probably right, im lucky rn but im probably just one parry away from never speccing that hero talent again xd

[gentle temple]

Is it worth to use it before having 4 upgrades on it?

[warm marlin]

you saw that getting dn parried can just remove your hero tree until relog right

[vale pine]

you can adjust it

[frail kindle]

i didnt know that lmfao

i thought it just bricked it for the fight

[warm marlin]

ok maybe not relog im not entirely sure

i didnt play it to find out

i didnt have augment rune on

you are mogged

gg

[chrome palm]

without auggie i was ~79.5

[jade urchin]

since we use rendorei+mastery enchant on weapons, does it matter which one is main or offhand?

[olive canyon]

so i finally went to do that bs ?? boss - much prefered kyveza

to rando getting hit for 250k

fuck that shit entirely

[chrome palm]

i am absolutely mogged if i dont use that stupid vessel trinket in sims

PLEASE buff gaze man holy shit

that thing is invisible in group content

[warm marlin]

i will be playing gaze if i have the choice

crucible is kinda goated

perma uptime nice stat stick

love those

[chrome palm]

its a sidegrade to crucible so

[tough lagoon]

this trinket stuff is so confusing, no clear answers i guess?

[chrome palm]

they all suck

[tulip light]

crucible will only be bad eventually since its champ track. but was nice having a good trinket for free on everyone

[warm marlin]

guidon is the goat and then you play the least bad passive option

[tulip light]

we have a very clear and easy answer 2 big trinkets both from the raid

[stable plume]

I got the champ trinket from delve that gives crit and it’s the best simming passive trinket for me

[chrome palm]

yeah the trinkets are awful

[tough lagoon]

is solarflare just ass? never sims good imo

[chrome palm]

crit is whatever

[tough lagoon]

gotcha

[chrome palm]

but assa im sure its nice

execute + crit

[stable plume]

Eh it also has a dmg proc

[warm marlin]

i do wonder if the ist fix will push trickster ahead

or if its already in and that's why ds is only 1% ahead for me

[tough lagoon]

so vessle box for stats unless you need the haste then ember? orrr?

[warm marlin]

acuity of rendorei is probably better btw

it was initially bugged such that if you had it on both weapons only one would work

[chrome palm]

my sim is a lot higher on latest vs weekly so im guessing it is

let me compare

[stable plume]

Sim it but imo ignore vessel it’s a bait trinket

[tough lagoon]

so just dont use vessel? Ive seen like 20 ppl in here upgrade vessel and use it at 263

trying to figure out before i slam crests

[chrome palm]

@warm marlin ist fix is in sim on latest

[jade urchin]

double rendorei sims higher so i assume just double slap that on?

[warm marlin]

that would explain it

[warm marlin]

yes its good

[chrome palm]

latest vs weekly

[tulip light]

do sims use the 2 extra super charged combo points btw?

[warm marlin]

is the apl the same

[chrome palm]

apl is the same

[warm marlin]

[chrome palm]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qVvezABFDw9L86Uip5mgrQ
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qCs3LCTB1zqfrcdqcDLzN2

dont look its shitty enchants

[full spade]

They keep shipping these trinkets with static pickups and forget they hotfix half of them to magnetize player

[lost sundial]

What are all of our positive and negatives of going with a non-dagger for our offhand with the current subtlety toolkit?

[chrome palm]

and i got little from heroic so i am broke on champ crests

[warm marlin]

[jade urchin]

i am judging u for ur trinkets tho

in a jealous way

[chrome palm]

gaze is a sidegrade to crucible im just flexing

my warbound gaze from heroic

[warm marlin]

i did actually full enchant since not gonna have time to do m+ before raid

this may be the gear i walk into mythic with for the most part

[chrome palm]

i might be going into mythic with a veteran chest so

lfr splits hit different

[hushed roost]

will you get a 2nd sec tech with 4 piece? or just wait for supercharged next dance

[warm marlin]

can buy a conq piece with pvp gear 🙂

[keen dome]

I believe in you both getting ideal vaults

[chrome palm]

do i need to cata that

[keen dome]

and giving it to me

[warm marlin]

champ piece*

oh yes

you do

but just farm the charges!

[chrome palm]

probably worth to cata a hero chest next week

[exotic steeple]

i havent seen a single token to even roll on

[chrome palm]

the only tier off pieces from voidspire

are from the last 2 bosses

💀

[warm marlin]

ye i got alleria legs

[chrome palm]

oh wait head from first boss nvm

[warm marlin]

very nice

[exotic steeple]

and i lost the roll by 4 to a bottom dps Warlock on hc chimaerus

on gaze

that mf got offered 1 mil gold for the trinket

[chrome palm]

wasnt it bad for warlock before it got nerfed

[exotic steeple]

idk

but that pugging. u roll on everything

[raven sail]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wooden wagon]

hello, ive been trying to improve and am a little lost on where to go from here, could any take a look at my most recent log and try to help me identify whats causing my damage to suffer?

!log

[hazy lichen]

how did u have the combo points to sectec without using shadow strike

on opener

[wooden wagon]

huh I thought i did shadow strike

I believe I accidentally shadow striked early and took a hit from the boss on that pull, idk if that would effect that

and make it not show

[hazy lichen]

weird

[rain stratus]

How do we solo Nulleous ??

[rose parrot]

Hello, why do death stalker want to enter dance with low cp?

[sleek socket]

i can use farstrider mercy as off hand already if i have another waepon same dps?

[vale pine]

yes, you can put the weapon in offhand if you have a similar or higher item level option

[vale pine]

spreading damage out between you and valeera from what other mentioned

[vale pine]

it sims better

[rain stratus]

Valeera straight up just dies too much for me

[sleek socket]

and if i recraft it i lose the enchant?

[tulip light]

@rain stratus is she dies feint (use feint single target dmg reduce talent) and ress her - will happen very often and is normal. sometimes she dies in shit etc where u cant ress her - then its just a go next

[vale pine]

nope

[cloud barn]

should i always fish for apex procs while in dance, or only if the 3 variables are true as trickster?

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[tall dawn]

I don't see this answered, sorry if it's already covered. Sim is showing I should have acuity of the ren'dorei on MH and OH, I am guessing that's wrong given the guide but wanted to make sure

[hollow spear]

The guide does not know your specific situation

[sleek socket]

ty

[warm marlin]

it was initially bugged such that if you had it on both weapons only one would work

rendorei is good

[sleek socket]

1 more question it is matter which enchant on which main or off weapon? rendorei or arcane masteery

[tall dawn]

oh cool, so double rendorei it is -- thank you

[hollow spear]

I thought the sim already considers or does it undersim rendorei?

[warm marlin]

it does consider it now but when the guide put out that list it wasnt working

double ren sims higher for me

it may flip back into being 1x ren 1x mastery at high ilvl

but primary good for now

[tall dawn]

makes life simpler to not have to worry about which hand has which enchant anyway

[sleek socket]

ho fk i need double rendorei?

[warm marlin]

its a massive 0.2% difference for me

if you already have arcane mastery i would not buy a new one

i just happened to get a new dagger

[sage grail]

is there any difference using macro like this
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique
/use Tempered Potion
/use 13
/use 14
or like this
#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/use 14
/use Fleeting Tempered Potion
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique

[shadow lance]

No

[warm marlin]

you dont want to macro a haste trinket with dance, but also your potion and trinkets should come before sectec

so 2 is better

[shadow lance]

Everything is out of gcd so it goes in same time of sectech

Afaik

[elfin hound]

16 m0's 4 world events and 0 catalyst charge

[warm marlin]

i do not trust it!

[shadow lance]

ME neither tbh

But it SHOULD be liek it

[sleek socket]

ty

[weak vector]

is So Tricky bugged? My threat redirection is still 30 sec instead of one hour

[warm marlin]

hit something to trigger the 1hr buff

[stuck tulip]

in what situation you double finisher?

[weak vector]

ah lol thanks

[warm marlin]

you only strike for apex if you both have 5 sht and a supercharged combo point ready

otherwise double finish

[cloud barn]

oh so you need 5 min sht AND a supercharged?

[plush roost]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[cloud barn]

so its all 3 or bust

[plush roost]

Its a shame coup apex isnt worth playing for

[warped fox]

is it a stat waste to craft boots instead of wrists/belt for embellishment?

[plush roost]

Makes trickster very binary

Ds kinda fun optimizing apex dns

[umbral frost]

how do i sim the crucible trinket properly? do i leave all 3 boxes checked?

[hazy lichen]

any1 know what prey difficulty drops veteran gear

[cloud barn]

hard

[modest snow]

if oyu have the points in the console yes

otherwise only those you have specced

[hazy lichen]

thanks g

[small vortex]

it is less main stat yes

[umbral frost]

i understand now ty

[vale osprey]

Anyone got bis gearset trinket sims now that alnseer is nerfed? Curious what's looking cute for us

[small vortex]

alnseer still pretty good but plumes may be higher sim now

plumes were simming higher for me

[lunar hinge]

hey, can someone explain me why this trinket sims so good even tho wowhead says its only b tier?

https://www.wowhead.com/item=251782/withered-saptors-paw

[lucid jackal]

How it's gonna feel pulling up to raid as rogue on mythic despite it being shit

[bleak night]

not what i expected when i saw two towers

[weak vector]

same tbh

[gentle temple]

Any rogue povs from HC crown of the cosmos?

[shadow lance]

Same

[weak vector]

my sims show 250 and 263 performance almost the same, weirdly enough

[lunar hinge]

for me it sims better than the puzzlebox on 246

[stuck tulip]

so basically out of dance and st on cd u double finisher and when st starts coming off cooldown you hold on your finishers?

[stuck arrow]

Damage trinkets usually pop off early don't scale as well.

[wicked urchin]

exile should have some

[small vortex]

paw has haste instead of agi so might be getting you to haste breakpoint in sim

[lunar hinge]

ah okay

im just so confused rn with my trinkets lol

i got the paw, vessel and puzzlebox

[weak vector]

with paw and voidstorm trinket im simming 60k

[warm marlin]

huh

[stuck tulip]

nvm i think i got it

even in dance when youve used st you start double finishing

[fiery fog]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[stuck tulip]

when there's no supercharged cps

right?

[warm marlin]

yes

[hazy lichen]

what do we do with our hero crests

[fiery fog]

wait until you get some good hc items from m+ next week

probably head/chest/leg upgrades first

[small vortex]

wait till you get weapon or high value trinkets

or hero tier

[hazy lichen]

is there a prio list

[fiery fog]

the sim will tell you

[small vortex]

head chest are highest stat budget items iirc

[hazy lichen]

wait

would it be smart

to use the crests

on a slot u have myth track of

[warm marlin]

no

[hazy lichen]

for the free upgrade

[warm marlin]

oh that yes

[fiery fog]

yeah

you want to do that with champion too

[warm marlin]

but this week there isnt a good argument for using hero at all

[fiery fog]

to save hero crests

next week you craft myth dagger with crests probably

[warm marlin]

i think the only one would be like alleria neck

[hazy lichen]

so say i got a myth track tier helm would i use the hero crests on a hero helm or say i got a heroic weapon instead

[gentle temple]

Is there a way to track in Naowhs UI the supercharged points even when you are on 0 CP?

[fading wedge]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[azure thicket]

main hand enchant adds a lot of dps for what it's worth, maybe spread hero crests around to other pieces of gear that would benefit

i think with two other 250ish pumpers rn you can do a m0 in 15 minutes not counting rp

[vapid light]

prob a skill issue but are rogues awful at low levels? currently have a 90 mage, lock, pally, and dh. decided to start a rogue alt and holy hell is it painful.. only lvl 23, but I'm having a hard time even killing quest bosses trying to level as sub

[azure thicket]

so 9s are probably free

most quest bosses can be cc'd but double check the rotation guide to see if you're missing something

[swift tinsel]

Rogue is kinda notoriously shit to level

[shadow urchin]

Am I missing something or why is entering dance eathing AA buff?

[swift tinsel]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[shadow urchin]

[swift tinsel]

We ballin

[fast moat]

Hello Mr. Subtlety pros, if u sim higher without the 18% haste, would u prio the sim gear or stick with the 18% breakpoint ?

[shadow urchin]

this kills muscle memory

1cp evi letsgoo

[swift tinsel]

It’s fine it’s only been a bug all of TWW too

[shadow urchin]

Somehow Im not surprised

[swift tinsel]

Fitting unsurprised pikachu pfp

[shadow urchin]

Id just like to not be let down one more time by blizz

[vapid light]

Ok well I guess it makes me feel better knowing that it’s not just me. Is the scaling just bad? I’m being out dpsed by tanks and healers in dungeons lol…

[swift tinsel]

We have so much power further into the tree that it feels quite sparse or bad until you can actually get all the pieces that make the spec work

[vapid light]

Got it

[azure thicket]

most of the damage talents are at the bottom of the tree ye

[vapid light]

Will try to power through

Maybe I burn a boost

[azure thicket]

cheap shot is your friend

[swift tinsel]

It’s an endurance test lol

[vapid light]

I just want a rogue for PvP heh

[swift tinsel]

Or test of willpower

I couldn’t imagine doing 1-90 now

[vapid light]

It has me contemplating all the life choices that led to this

The other classes were a breeze

[azure thicket]

toward the end you can chain/mass pull stuff but top half is spooky when you have one shadow dance i imagine

[wild vine]

Ye expansion to expansion is fine and even there it might end up being a tad slower

Fresh is kinda playing on hardmode

[vapid light]

It’s rough

[sacred jewel]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[azure thicket]

the optimization feels pretty natural once you get used to it

[solar mural]

guys when playing with 2min cd trinket like Emberwing of Puzzle Box, should I use it on cooldown with Secret Tech + SDance or wait 30s for next SBlades?

[swift tinsel]

Use with every other blades

Treat like a 3min trinket

[azure thicket]

sec tec is cooling down for more than a few seconds and dance to finish a low count pack and just strike an extra time before using a spender

[sacred jewel]

Am i understanding correctly, do all 4 of these conditions have to be met (ancient art HAS to be up) or is it enough if any of the first three conditions are met

[swift tinsel]

If you already have the buff there’s no need to follow the flowchart

Bc the point of it is to force the buff

[subtle jay]

are we going to get even less aoe dmg according to datamined 12.0.5 changes?

[swift tinsel]

So realistically that should be the first bullet point

But you need to fulfill all of the criteria before striking

[thin sinew]

hmm starting to question sims with this whole haste situation. it's now saying 857 haste is better than any other situation that puts me around 660-700

[sacred jewel]

So basically if

• ancient art is up -> i can apex
• ancient art is NOT up -> check if all first three conditions are met? yes: shadowstrike no: just use it?

[swift tinsel]

Ye that’s the gist of it

[sacred jewel]

gotcha

[swift tinsel]

It’s basically a tool to force a clone to replicate your Darkest Night evisc or your 2nd Supercharged finisher (since Sectech typically consumes the first)

[sacred jewel]

the ordering was a little bit confusing

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[steel horizon]

For nullaeus last intermission do we try to down The caster? Or just ignore it and burn boss to zero

[swift tinsel]

I ignored it personally

Not really a threat

[bleak night]

hes kinda just there to bait you into wasting your interrupt

which i definitely never did

[steel horizon]

Okay I was just worried that it would be too much damage on me with both of them while I'm trying to res valeera

[swift tinsel]

Yeah just a shadowbolt spammer that puts a slow on you

[swift tinsel]

I did once the first time and had to cloak the big boom lol

[azure thicket]

so if we have ancient arts available after the sec tec we're supposed to use the optimization, the version i saw here made it seem really niche

[steel horizon]

How hard is it to res valeera during the last 15% when he's enraged

[chrome palm]

Is your discord wow tooltip color

[azure thicket]

idk me and another rogue were yapping about it, it's their screenshot

they could have a wow tooltip themed discord idk

[sacred jewel]

shadow dance up means active right, not up (available)

[azure thicket]

well shadowstrike is only used during stealth/dance

[vale pine]

its from the wowhead guide 😉

[sacred jewel]

well that is the implication yes but wording is still ambigious

[vale pine]

if i can improve wording, let me know

always happy to make things better

[azure thicket]

i think it's missing when we're not supposed to use it but i think i get it now

it's after the sec tec w/ aa available

[shadow crag]

what stat are we taking for academy?

mastery or crit?

m0 dungeon

[azure thicket]

and not a dry shadowdance if that's the right term

[wild vine]

iirc vers if they still work the same

[shadow crag]

thanks

[vale pine]

i am not entirely sure i follow

you are always supposed to use the optimization

if you want to

[azure thicket]

oh i see

[vale pine]

the damage agin isn't insane, so its something you volenteerly opt in

e.g. let me quick see

[wild vine]

maybe he meant because there was some stuff like "during lust" mentioned the other day

[vale pine]

the gain is around 0.5% most of the time, but the optimization holds up with more targets

[tacit bolt]

have a question for you all. I noticed in all guides it says to make either belt, feet, bracers with Arcanoweave Insight embelishment, but I simmed this against the Loa Worshipers Band and it says that the band gives almost 1000 dps better. Anyone have insight?

[vale pine]

you see in the graph, 5 targets is basically the "turn point" where strike becomes very inefficient

and it goes down with more targets

[gentle temple]

Im running 800 haste almost, you were talking about 700ish but with 800 I can barely fit the last global

[azure thicket]

well if you dance without sec the optimization is still valid is what it sounds like which comes up sometimes etc

[vale pine]

so i super high pulls it becomes fairly irrelevant

[azure thicket]

but also its valid for the hit after sec tec

[vale pine]

yes

it is

[azure thicket]

ye

[vale pine]

thats what the optimization is

and the full tooltip

[wild vine]

its kinda personal after that point

[sacred jewel]

I feel like if you'd swap the order it would be easier to understand

• Is the Ancient art buff up? Yes -> Use apex
  No? Use Shadow strike instead if all these following conditions are met
• Shadow dance active? Yes
• the remaining two conditions
  Example situation/rotation (i honestly think this would help people a lot)

[vale pine]

i mean its an exception

you basically play like usual

if you don't meet all criteria

so if one is not met, you cba

you have secret techniques up?

just use secret

you are on low cp

you will strike w/e

[azure thicket]

i thought i was doing it by mistake a few times today

[vale pine]

you don't have supercharger?

just play normal

i don't think it should be a entire decision tree instead of a checklist

would just make it more complicated

it also only matters at the start of dance

you get 2 superchargers

and usually one is used with secret

which only rly gives you the option to strike for the 2nd supercharger

so

[olive remnant]

i think fuu‘s tooltip is rly easy to understand and follow.

[azure thicket]

i think it's where shadowstrike is positioned in the writing, it might read better at the top of the blurb

[gentle temple]

Besides those supercharged finishers we are not fishing for ancient arts?

[vale pine]

you mean "user shadowstrike if:"?

[vale pine]

you do

you just play like usual

the optimization is basically

"When would you use shadowstrike even if you have full combo points"

and then you go down the list

is dance up?
NO -> don't boter

[cedar swan]

i might not totally get it but, why wouldnt you just press evis?

[vale pine]

Is supercharger up?
NO -> don't bother

is secret technique ready to be used?
YES -> don't bother

[wild vine]

@vale pine is it just a visual bug or do the sims on your sheet not have embellishments/only one? talking about the st sims for example

[vale pine]

is Ancient arts already up?
YES -> don't bother

[vale pine]

visual bug

[azure thicket]

this first thing it does is caution you not to empower sec tec which is good info but it's hard to wrap the head around why/when we shadowstrike after that i think

[vale pine]

you would still secret if apex is up for it

but you just wouldn't do the optimization for secret

[wild vine]

it always depends on the gear you swap out

[vale pine]

also again, the optimization is not super big

[wild vine]

like if you swap out a low ilvl ring for a crafted, but a roughly equal ilvl belt for a crafted on the other embellishment, that can cause a difference

[vale pine]

the diffrence in output is higher if you play undead instead of one of the good races

(which is roughly -1.5% dps, so 3 times as much as the optimization)

[tacit bolt]

I think i understand, thanks.

[vale pine]

^ my point here is simply, that its not something to overthink

no reason to stress out over a small gain

[sacred jewel]

It might be me but what wasn't obvious if your checklist is a "ALL conditions have to be met" or just any condition (which might be obvious that this isn't the case if people think about it but those who aren't too familiar might not know)
Just personally, an "only Shadowstrike [on high combo points] if all of this applies" at the beginning or "Only use Shadowstrike if all conditions are met" would've made it more clearer for me

[polar schooner]

how do you rez Valeera while the gravity orb is moving you

[ashen grove]

is there a crafting guide? i don’t know when to craft what

[vale pine]

thats a good point

i can add/change that line slightly
Edit:Done

[sacred jewel]

thanks for your great work, much appreciated

[sacred jewel]

i usually use the wow-professions site for crafting

[manic ivy]

is anyone bored to check a wlog and tell me what am i doing wrong?

[olive canyon]

i did it a few hours ago and i orientated myself ahead of her body so as i got dragged back i was still in range

[ashen grove]

i mean, when should I use a spark

[sacred jewel]

that one is in the BiS items section

on wowhead

[gentle temple]

If we are about to enter dance but we have apex talent do we enter dance with eviscerate and then sec tec right?

[potent heath]

i give up

[polar schooner]

what was your ilvl

[olive canyon]

250

no tier, no trinket thing

[polar schooner]

can you share talent build?

not sure if you were raid or mythic plus

[olive canyon]

literally just the regular build for ST

[polar schooner]

best i can get is 2 percent

[vocal rock]

Wowhead has a small one

[olive canyon]

i played trickster and outside of the opener, i save cds for add sets. then save an evasion and cloak for the last burn

[polar schooner]

youre tricking valeera yeah?

[olive canyon]

roll feints, use vial when there are no orbs around

err not much, every time i dance she gets pummeled any way

so use dance somewhat early if you need a moment to not get trucked

[vale pine]

when is always difficult to answer

[polar schooner]

kk, ive been using her as a tank, maybe thats the problem

[vale pine]

a dagger craft before this week was good

[polar schooner]

healer tank*

[olive canyon]

yeh i didnt use her as a tank, rezzing her is super annoying

[vale pine]

2nd craft i would say after heroic clear is the time you have the most agency

[polar schooner]

with trix

[azure thicket]

cancelling tricks at the right time can help, try healer

[vale pine]

if you want to min/max for mythic can even hold for mythic release

but idk

[polar schooner]

i tried, canceling trix, with a cancelaura macro

[vale pine]

i just crafted a dagger

adn will likely craft a belt after the heroic run

[azure thicket]

got him to p2 before i went to do crest farm stuff

[olive canyon]

have her heal, use the circles she puts down, and always use the red vials she throws out - or try to

[steel horizon]

I feel like the only way to survive is to use dance as a defensive to shift aggro to valeera. I make sure i always have 1 available for whenever i res her otherwise he kills me within 10 seconds of the res

[vale pine]

raid does not have the best stats in the belt slot, and its a slot i will keep long term

[olive canyon]

i only needed pot for the third add with cds

i burn evasion if i have to rez that dumb poop

sometimes she is mega healthy sometimes she just gets railed.

[steel horizon]

I can usually survive the res with the feint talent that gives dr

Usually

[olive canyon]

damn thats is a tight sphincter moment

[vale pine]

its a tricky fight on rogue (bun intended)

its trivial on tanks from what i was told

[olive canyon]

try your best to use what valeera gives you - the circles are good, and in the last phase just have something up - either her circles and heals/vials, then your feints, then crimson vial yourself if there are no orbs, keep kiting back - avoid and if you make it to blades/dance then he should die

[azure thicket]

yeah he can still kill you while rezzing her sometimes which is griefy

[olive canyon]

oh and i had no idea crush critting was a thing so i died sometimes to showing my back and getting hit for 250k, dont do that, he died within like 5 pulls after i found that out

I wnat bran back

never thought id say that

[vale pine]

haha ^^

they just need to buff valeera

[olive canyon]

not the only person they need to buff

4% should do it

[azure thicket]

yeah healing yourself should heal her or something

[manic ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-sad-cry-gif-24016801

[azure thicket]

it's silly

[olive canyon]

im sure she does get health back in some ways although im not sure how

[azure thicket]

there's a logs channel i think

[manic ivy]

oh

gonna check

[azure thicket]

[manic ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kiss-cock-mrekk-vaxei-whitefcat-gif-20435871

[vale pine]

well 3% in our case

[olive canyon]

they have to think that sub is gonna get a lot of play on some of those fights with the burst we can put out - otherwise those buffs dont make much sense but hey at least its something.

[vale pine]

subtlety has a better tier set

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

if you type !log it will open a thread for you

[hoary orchid]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[olive canyon]

the old picture that was floating around had it at almost 14%

[hollow spear]

demo lock is sitting at 2% or sth

[manic ivy]

!log

[azure thicket]

saw a havoc hit 300k in sott first pull today

[vale pine]

thats for trickster

deathstalker has a higher baseline, so the increase is lower

but both is true

[olive canyon]

oh sorry didnt realise what you linked was deathstalker

Either way, i think we will be just fine. Assa looks real good for some of these fights too

[vale pine]

this is both side by side

[vale pine]

îts not obviouse from the picture

[vestal fog]

Tell your guild you play trickster, get tier set swap to deathstalker B-)

[vale pine]

i mean

most fights atm

you play trickster

[twin quartz]

How much haste does sub need to gain one additional gcd in shadowdance

[olive canyon]

I dont mind deathstalker at all but the thought of losing your mark is just not worth right now

[tulip light]

fuu can you link your char maybe?

[olive canyon]

even when there is no good reason for it too disapear

[vale pine]

i have no public logs, so would be pointless

[tulip light]

nah just armory idc about logs

[odd sandal]

I just finished ??! Are we sure it's a 1 time reward? I've heard multiple times now that it might be weekly.

[vale pine]

you want around 18%, so somewhere around 650-700

[tulip light]

if its weekly you can just grp up and kill it as it becomes a target dummy

[vale pine]

its usually better to get a bit more to be more than "just able to hit"

so if you have ~700 with oils, thats perfect

[hoary orchid]

where are the ideal sim settings for dungeons? i always forget

[vale pine]

dungeon slice is good

[hoary orchid]

tyvm good sir

[smoky bough]

Anyone else feel that sub feels awkward to Play?

[fair wedge]

we spamming back stab or shuri storm for cp on paladins

[twin quartz]

So the guidon trinket needs to be max myth track (677 haste) to force an extra gcd as opposed to needing to supplement with an additional ~100 haste from gear if you have an LFR track guidon (547 haste)

[fair wedge]

also does bp hit both drags

[warm marlin]

700 haste is 2 gcds

its about 500 per gcd

[twin quartz]

I’m just trying to get a feel for the breakpoint generally

Not sure how the haste scaling works

[azure thicket]

ik people are just gonna buy the crown of the cosmos neck for turbo boost but any thoughts on what we can target to get to haste cap in the mean time?

[twin quartz]

There’s a lot of haste +crit/mast gear

[warm marlin]

big haste flask + oils gives around 200

difficult to hit 650 without having full haste gear

im just trying to stay around 480 ish to use consums to get up there

[azure thicket]

18% technically starts at 620 but probs will push it back to 650-700

[tepid trellis]

ive got 671 and ive got 5 pieces that arent haste

[olive canyon]

double haste rings?

[tepid trellis]

yup

[tulip light]

just aim for 550 on gear and add flask / oil

doesnt rly matter to stress gear just to take mastery flask imo

[warm marlin]

also trying to play eyes of the eagle

haste enchants do help a lot

[tepid trellis]

im playing that

[tulip light]

that as well

[warm marlin]

i dont have a second haste ring unlucky

[twin quartz]

Shouldn’t matter as long as you get to the breakpoint with either consumes/enchants/jewels or gear

[azure thicket]

better finish leveling alchemy then

[tepid trellis]

x is non haste gear

[olive canyon]

2p+trinket - a part of me hates you

just a little

[warm marlin]

yea i just dont have many haste pieces

[shadow lance]

I guess SIM doesn't want to get 18% haste in DS cuz I don't have tier

[warm marlin]

ds wants less haste

[shadow lance]

Or I'm missing something?

[warm marlin]

it doesnt have coup gcd

[azure thicket]

the champ rep neck has been really solid 100 haste..mast so far

[warm marlin]

think ds wants 587 or something

[shadow lance]

Yes but it puts me under

And swapping my haste/mastery neck by a Haste/vers

[tepid trellis]

the sim in general goes a bit lower on haste than you would ideally want

as it doesent have the same delays as we do as humans

[shadow lance]

Sure

But it puts me very low : 477

So 509 with oils

[warm marlin]

i assume you dont have haste flask selected

[shadow lance]

Mastery one

[void ocean]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1484624630764273745/drops.png

[shadow lance]

But I got stuff to reach enough haste without the flask

[polar schooner]

.01 wipe, got this

[olive canyon]

nice man! just perservere

and then you can join the "what is vareesa bloody doing" gang

[hoary orchid]

is light company guidon bad as M Plus trinket, or the sims just hate it? im at 14% haste

[azure thicket]

wait can heart of wind cause the sim to prefer lower haste

cause im sitting at 690 when it procs in hindsight

it's probably just the sim quirk though idk

[shadow lance]

I think sim is clunky

Can't figure why it recquire lower haste, even as Trickster

[tulip light]

i like it just because its strong and pairs with blades. if u dont like it can go puzzle box or just 2x passive id say

[tepid trellis]

sim is fine with having 1.2sec longer dance which is quite a bit lower haste than what you'd ideally want as a non robot

[upper narwhal]

need a bespoke line to force higher haste

[azure thicket]

in my case that does explain why some dances were lining up differently across all the m0s i did this week

they really should let us track trinkets in the base cdm

[dire flame]

I keep seeing that we want like 18% haste as trickster, but is there any reason the sim would be telling me to take haste gear off? down to like 540?

[olive canyon]

read just above you

the sim is cleaner and simply a robot

[azure thicket]

pi, haste flask, bloodlust

[olive canyon]

we need more leeway

[azure thicket]

the weapon oils

[dire flame]

more leeway makes sense, so ignore the sim, and put on 18%? or just use a haste flask instead

[tepid trellis]

pi has no effect on dance tho

[azure thicket]

ye i just guessed that one

[narrow shadow]

Sub saved now after the 3% buff?

[shadow lance]

No

[dire flame]

is there any way on raidbots to tell it to sim and only keep options with atleast 18% haste? or is it just always going to just give out 15% gear sets

[celest mulch]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[thin sinew]

Be glad Rosic mines refusing to pick anything with less than 24%....

[daring pike]

is the haste breakpoint calculated with consumables like Oil in mind?

[warm marlin]

you want to end at 680-700 after all buffs and consumables are applied

[spiral bloom]

I have enough high ilevel haste gear to keep my same ilevel and have like ~20% haste but raidbots gives me like 570, I just stopped caring

[lunar bluff]

262 lsoer

noah fence

[thin sinew]

yeh i've stopped using it as sure 18sec CD Secrettech is fine and all but it 'hits' for 10% less due to missing mastery.

it's all a bit weird

[warm marlin]

do i know you

[lunar bluff]

you wish you did

[chrome palm]

This man must be arrested for crafting bracers before mythic raid comes out

[lunar bluff]

he shouldve crafted braces

[narrow shadow]

Even counting on use trinket?

[warm marlin]

i did dr strange calculations and sent hero crests on legs/boots

there is no possible scenario that it can be wrong

unless mythic alleria and all preceding fights are oneshots and then i get given mythic legs for some reason

[thin sinew]

-160 hero crests

[chrome palm]

What about when 4 mythic bracers drop and you never see belt

[warm marlin]

i do not care!

[chrome palm]

[warm marlin]

also i wanted veteran achievement so i could get discount on the split alt

my motivations are beyond you

also

i will take socket out of vault

[chrome palm]

I am 2/2 on dropping daggers from the raid in prog

[warm marlin]

and put it on my bracer

[chrome palm]

About to be 3/3

[warm marlin]

we didnt see a single one until week 4 in mfo

surely we do not drop 2 week1 this time

[thin sinew]

i mean you could have crafted them at myth level next few weeks and spent the hero crests on upgrading other gear

[warm marlin]

why would i craft pants

u dont want a high value slot to be -4 ilvl

[chrome palm]

If it’s off piece

And it doesn’t drop early it can be good

I don’t know if we have an off piece tho

[warm marlin]

it is legs

[chrome palm]

All stats are good for sub now

[warm marlin]

they have giga vers

for tier

[robust light]

idk why i was hope coping abt raid

[azure thicket]

no everytime i get giga heroic weapons

[robust light]

what are u guys dealin on crown fight

[azure thicket]

and then nothing until something in raid gets cleared

gonna just upgrade hero dagger and trinkets next week and be happy lol

[warm marlin]

especially now that crafted items are -4 ilvl and not -3

crafting with myth feels bad

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/mickey-mouse-steamboat-willie-1928-disney-gif-16674175

[warm marlin]

wait im cooked

it is -3

nvm

[warm marlin]

listen man its all the reverse sandbag operation

[fallow nimbus]

Can't we tell the sim to be more human and go for a bit more haste or would that make it too sentient and start the judgement day?

[warm marlin]

i need the ilvl so we can get outlaw to be the prog spec for you

im just looking out for the boys

[chrome palm]

Surely we don’t play assa on dragons

When they land for cleave in execute range

Surely not

[tepid trellis]

got my embel recrafted no 4p yet tho soonTM

[fallow nimbus]

I only need 2 tokens for 4set, already got lfr warbound hands

[gentle sonnet]

who else precasts puzzle box going into a raid boss?

[tepid trellis]

i just need achievement next week

and im 4set

got 2p from splits

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah, 1 piece + m+ av next week

[lusty solar]

supercharge resets or you can cheese a dance before pull

[gentle sonnet]

my guild didn't get lucky at all with normal raid only like 2 tier piece tokens dropped the entire raid

[azure thicket]

precast at 4 imo

[tepid trellis]

we also did not get lucky

[gentle sonnet]

i precast at 3

[warm marlin]

no pvp?

[tepid trellis]

i was just prio'd afaik

[tepid trellis]

fck no

not touching that

[warm marlin]

2s were fun!

[tepid trellis]

dont need it for hc aleria

[gentle sonnet]

does solo count towards the 1600 rating?

[fallow nimbus]

What 2nd embellishment piece did you guys craft or will?

[gentle sonnet]

hunt and arcanoweave should be your go tos

[tepid trellis]

belt/wrist/back with arcano

[gentle sonnet]

i think belt is the popular option

[copper fox]

Anything wrong with 0 vers gear just kinda worked out that way

[tepid trellis]

thats fine

[gentle sonnet]

yea, vers kinda became our worst stat with the introduction of haste

[south sedge]

if we have sectec up for the last global of dance should we still send or just hold for the next dance?

[copper fox]

thanks fellas

[gentle sonnet]

always send, unless you know you're going into an immediate dance as soon as that one is done

[tepid trellis]

ideally not "last global" as some of sectech will land out of dance then

better to delay dance by 1 sec then

to mak it fit

[south sedge]

but what if next dance wont be up for like another 8secs or something like that

oh nvm misread what you said

even if that means fitting 2nd dance partly outside of blades?

[tepid trellis]

yes

[gentle sonnet]

i mean you're not always going to be able to line up 2 dances with blades

[tepid trellis]

once you get tier it will fit inside

[azure thicket]

i tried it on one of the raid bosses and you desync until you pool 2 dance charges

is not fun

but also tier makes two sec tecs a thing

[shrewd lantern]

tier+guidon should make it fine no?

[south sedge]

yeah its just with guidon atm my sectec is 17s cd

so kinda awk

[fallow nimbus]

Get more haste

[gentle sonnet]

flask some haste if you have to

[azure thicket]

ye when heart procs i guess i can see that second cast occasionally

[shrewd lantern]

whats the buff uptime on heart

anyway

[gentle sonnet]

ngl, i sat at like 24% haste for a decent amount of time

[south sedge]

also am i correct in assuming you build to max cp after your first dance then dance? or should we send dance immediately after and just ss for cp?

[gentle sonnet]

it's better to dance into SS cause that's an immediate max CP

from premonition

[arctic heart]

how much we are simming in ST? a good simm is about what?

[shrewd lantern]

standard opener rn should be strike evis vanish strike iirc

[gentle sonnet]

i would say a good sim rn is about 55-60k dps give or take

[arctic heart]

thank you mr. turtle

very kind

[shrewd lantern]

like close to 80k if you're juiced

[tepid trellis]

just depends how deep you are into raiding

[shrewd lantern]

iirc ryldd was posting that

[tepid trellis]

im at 76k

[arctic heart]

60k without any piece

i guess is bad but whatever :T

lets see if get better with tier

[gentle sonnet]

on a good ST fight i ended with 55k dps

[shrewd lantern]

considering 2p is a 9% gain

[gilded thistle]

sheeeeit https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qVzVTH8XmE2HBjx7SoNySh

we matching

[glass jackal]

I’m simming 64.6k currently ST

[warm marlin]

think my gear is a bit insane

[shrewd lantern]

hence why i said if juiced

[chrome palm]

he is a few ilvl from rwf characters

[shrewd lantern]

hasnt seen hero crests right

[chrome palm]

he has

[shrewd lantern]

oh

[warm marlin]

only 80 but yes

[tepid trellis]

i have not yet

holding them for next reset

[sleek socket]

if i use manaflux on pve item, like ilvl 246, it get stuck on it and eventually it will be lower level for ever?

like how do i need to manage the mana flux, and if i can somehow mix it for pve and pvp

[dusty quartz]

anyone crafted anything yet with their spark?

sparks*

[swift tinsel]

Thankful I’m not tempted to spend hero crests bc my only hero piece is the shitter delve self-fear trinket

But having an extra 80 is pretty nice

[shrewd lantern]

most people crafted a no spark weapon

ermm no crest

[tepid trellis]

only item i could really send them on is guidon trinket

[dusty quartz]

MH or OH? I can see on wowhead that the BIS is a crafted offhand

[tepid trellis]

but its kinda pointless this week

[shrewd lantern]

i think im prob not sending anymore personally since im using 246 socket pvp bracers

until late tier

[tepid trellis]

since im only doing 2x hc aleria splits tmrw and then its m0

m+*

wednesday

[warm marlin]

ye it was specifically because i had two 269 items from alleria that are well statted and don't drop above 1/6 myth except from alleria

[shrewd lantern]

i mean it doesnt matter it'll just be moved to oh eventually

[dusty quartz]

true true

[swift tinsel]

I’m genuinely excited for some of the dungeons next week and there’s good gear from the ones I like so I’m actually looking forward to running them a bunch

[shrewd lantern]

spark gear is kind of shit

this tier

[gentle sonnet]

Max is doing a monster flavor tier list right now guys

[shrewd lantern]

tier list so

white monster

[swift tinsel]

Two of them have a dagger which is nice

[shrewd lantern]

/thread

maybe pipeline punch if we talking the sugar versions

[swift tinsel]

Idk I like sugar free peach more than white m

[chrome palm]

is he bringing whispyr on for pink monster

[tepid trellis]

i hate white monster

[chrome palm]

to help rate it

[tepid trellis]

cant stand it

[gentle sonnet]

white monster is A tier

[tepid trellis]

dont tell whispyr

[swift tinsel]

Sugar free peach or strawberry my favs hands down

[shrewd lantern]

gorilla mind is the best energy drink line

dont @ me

[gentle sonnet]

venom is the best energy drink line