subtlety

[lilac stag]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[weak socket]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac stag]

Hah. That used to do opacity.

[weak socket]

no specific ravenholdt guides?

there used to be during bfa

[lilac stag]

Those are all RH people

[verbal kelp]

Is it worth sending hero crests on the crafted belt now? I’m planning to use myth crests next week for crafted dagger? Can somebody let me know if that’s a good plan? Thanks!

[crystal bone]

ty!

[deft silo]

for 3rd shadowblades send and on, its normal to hold for like 5ish seconds to wait for shadow dance charge right? or am i doing something wrong

[torn tide]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[torn tide]

oh

[swift tinsel]

Dance and blades naturally desynch bc of their respective cooldowns; dance being 20 seconds and blades being 90

[grave delta]

Did you get an achievement or something for it

just trynna confirm

[real belfry]

Is Shadow Strike or Shuriken the better builder for Council?

[gentle temple]

It would be nice having them in another color since the raid itself is kinda dark

[deft silo]

im noticing at that 3rd send, i have shadowblades up and 1 charge of SD but 2nd charge still has 20 second CD so i have to wait so i can get that 2nd dance in during blades

[gentle temple]

But you cannot change it right?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it’s kinda annoying, because of how dance/sectech/blades cooldowns are there ends up being waiting time usually

[soft oriole]

I checked exiles logs on day one, and he was holding for like 20 seconds with no dance/sectec

if in doubt, copy the god gamers

tbh just copy them anyways

[steel zinc]

spell overlay opacity

blizzard menu

[bleak night]

once you have this achievement, catalyst charges start dropping from content

[patent iris]

Hi all a question how does this macro work ? #showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab

[soft oriole]

Looks like its one button for shadowstrike or backstab for people that don't get a new bar whenever they enter stealth

[spiral dirge]

Good morning guys! 🙂

Im new to WoW and was looking to understand how Macros work for Rotation automation

[mental kettle]

unluck

[jaunty heath]

did you actually get any since

[hollow spear]

Haven't gotten one yet

[spiral dirge]

Anyone know where I could find good builds for subtlety rogue

[jaunty heath]

me too

[rain hull]

go find shinding on YT

[wild vine]

wowhead

[jaunty heath]

davyn is back

[wild vine]

ages already

[jaunty heath]

be careful next time

fighting trolls is never win

[soft oriole]

macros for automation dont really exist these days, but there is a one button rotation button if that is what you are after?

[drifting halo]

🥲

[wild vine]

taking that L every day of the week fighting for the rogue fam

[hollow spear]

Sappu tried to pin it on me

[static jolt]

prolly a beaten horse, but is it worth to upgrade crafted dagger? or just chill and wait for a drop in m+?

[jaunty heath]

xdd i was just having popcorn time

[elfin hound]

i did 2 delves and 1 world event and got one charge, after this i did m0 world tour multiple events some delves and got 0. same on alt

[random mason]

upgrade it with myth crests yeah

[spiral dirge]

Kinda like I click one of my actions on action bar and it cycles a bunch of abilities like backstab + evis

[wintry heart]

I know death stalker is better on pure single but it feels so bad to play so I will not be doing that ever again

[jaunty heath]

i will propably run those world events

[static jolt]

i thought it was better for aoe?

since trickster is more ST?

[wild vine]

imo doesnt feel THAT different ngl

[hollow spear]

Let's hope you're the only one that returned from vacation

[wild vine]

I can promise you that I am the only one

[soft oriole]

yeah that is the one button rotation. You can enable it in settings somewhere, then it becomes a spell in your spellbook. I would strongly advise trying to learn how to play the class yourself though, its more fun and more rewarding imo

[wintry heart]

I’ve just never liked that hero talent lol

[hollow spear]

Some post ban exchanges with the guy or how do you know? 💀

[spiral dirge]

Lol its my first character ever and I seem to struggle soloing basic (mini bosses)

We gettin there (eventually)

[bleak night]

ive killed 3 bosses since then and gotten 2

one from normal crown and one from heroic dargons

[spiral dirge]

Anyways thank you still for the tips in the meantime everyone, imma go roll a phatty rn

[jaunty heath]

what bosses, like in raid?

i see

[wild vine]

dm

[wild vine]

I got 1 on 2 chars now

[bleak night]

https://klipy.com/gifs/spill-issue-oh-no-my-milj

[jaunty heath]

i have no item to use them on anyway but yeah hopefully they drop from m+ next week

[hollow spear]

I have to do some targeted m0

Hope I get one this week

[wild vine]

I am leveling new chars

kinda feels bad

[jaunty heath]

i heard that you can get one key for delves over cap

anyone idea how

[scarlet pasture]

Hi, what is profitable as the first upgrade from items?

chest / legs or tinkets ?

[leaden prairie]

same level as companies not allowing employees (or discouraging same thing) to talk about salary between themselves

private logging should be banned fr fr

[wild vine]

imo absolutely fine

[grand galleon]

wtf why are we sharing tokens with 4 classes?

[wild vine]

else you gotta talk to all the underperforming lads why they earn less

[bleak night]

yeah it would be terrible if companies had to be clear about why they pay you what they do

[leaden prairie]

waht

idk if you are serious or not

[wild vine]

absolutely am

[leaden prairie]

?

its probably reason number 1 why women are paid less without even knowing it

[slate fable]

https://klipy.com/gifs/blinking-eyes-white-guy-2

[leaden prairie]

its also a great ways for employers to cheap out and not pay people of same competence the same amount

all benefit of this practice is to the company

not you

idk why you think thats good

kinda wild

[short radish]

based and private logging is cringe

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

honestly it's better this tier

since there's not t hat many monk players

[wild vine]

knowing your worth and working out what you should be earning with your boss is part of the skillset everyone that wants to get somewhere should have. most people couldnt handle the truth of why they might get less cash than someone else

[leaden prairie]

xd

i think you are a mean person irl

[short radish]

yeah also private salary is cringe and not acutally illegal

[wild vine]

or there is more shit happening in your country than where I am from

in regards to that

[shrewd lantern]

realistically only thing that matters is how good your tier bonuses are relative to other spec's

[short radish]

well also you just need to get a single piece of tier (can be from vault) and you have it by w3

[wild vine]

also if mean means that I dont want people that put in way more effort to earn the same as people that dont, then yes

[hollow spear]

I think retaliating for people talking about their salaries is illegal in most European countries

[grand galleon]

its rigged

[short radish]

consider the following: it works the other way that "oh this person earns the same as me but does half my work. give me a pay rise or i quit"

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[wild vine]

w2 if you get vault tier right?

[short radish]

yes

[hollow spear]

As zac said, the only benefactor of that practice are the companies

[bleak night]

W1 if you do pvp and get warbound tier to drop

[leaden prairie]

no i think you are the type of person that dont want good thigns happening to others people if it didnt happen to you, i think youare the type of person that wouldnt want things improving for others because you didnt have that kind of benefit while it wsa your turn

[bleak night]

[leaden prairie]

thats kinda my take on these kind of things

[wild vine]

that definitely correlates to knowing your worth. also if you assume bosses dont wanna pay you shit, why should they pay someone more than they deserve? kinda contradicting

[short radish]

my paladin has 4p

my rogue has 1p

[leaden prairie]

you think since you are better than others it wouldnt happen to you anyway so you dont care

[short radish]

more info allows me to know my worth more

[wild vine]

thats just plain wrong, it would happen to most people if they dont wanna put in the effort

[short radish]

if i know im being paid teh same as joe blogger who sits on his ass all day on instagram

i'd be a bit pissed

[leaden prairie]

you think putting in the effort is enough to earn what you are worth ?

[wild vine]

idk how it is in other countries, but we do have statistics that generally are pretty fine for that

[short radish]

yeah but those are generalisations

theyre as useful as the tier spreadsheet

[wild vine]

yes, putting in the effort to gather information, preparing why you should earn more, preparing alternatives and standing your own in your annual (or however often) salary talk is also effort

[short radish]

okay sure but why is hiding information good?

[wild vine]

as much as it is doing the actual work that makes you deserve more

[leaden prairie]

xd

[short radish]

please defend that point

[frigid ingot]

!log

[chrome totem]

Is there a macro that uses shadow dance and shadowstrike together?

[short radish]

no

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[wild vine]

because people are insane snowflakes that dont wanna here why they wouldnt deserve more nowadays

[leaden prairie]

[tepid trellis]

Rogue got 2 set + trinket + dagger from hc

[wild vine]

I think it would do more harm than good

[tepid trellis]

we take those

[short radish]

okay so your arguement is "someone might mald"

[leaden prairie]

i just knew the kind of person you were

[short radish]

which they probably will

[leaden prairie]

just by that salary thing

instantly

its kinda crazy

[frigid ingot]

If anyone has time to look over this https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1484923975757991936 and tell me what is do so wrong i d appreciate it.

[iron shore]

https://giphy.com/gifs/moodman-reaction-mrw-reactions-cM2CN5U99VVWdDGcSA

[short radish]

but who cares? let them mald

what has them malding got to do with you and your salary that is exactly as you should be earning

[wild vine]

with all due respect, you dont know anything and you lack the capability to judge a character just by one topic where you refuse to see any other side

[leaden prairie]

seeing the other side

when its just being a terrible human being for fun

[wild vine]

I know all the salaries in our company and I know what people think about how much they earn

[short radish]

good for you

okay i understand now

wait no

i dont understand nvm

like you gotta have a better arguement than "people will mald"

[leaden prairie]

people might not get fucked over by big companies then

bad

[wild vine]

yeah assuming it would change anything because the people earn way less than they deserve

comparatively

[hollow spear]

If you don't know the salary range for your job in your company, you won't know if you're underpaid. No statistic will help you with that. And you feeling good about your salary while getting underpaid is exactly what the company wants.

[short radish]

i'd take a mental gymnastic leap of "more people will realise how underpaid they are getting and will start arguing their salaries more. This will cause people to quit and the economy will collapse due to lack of workers"

[leaden prairie]

big step

[short radish]

i had to flex pretty hard for that

[wild vine]

companies seem to be terrible af in your countries

idk

[leaden prairie]

seems like they would be way worse in your ideal country

[hollow spear]

They're terrible everywhere when it comes to paying salaries, that's just in the nature of businesses

[wild vine]

seems like you think you know things you certainly dont know

[short radish]

which country are you from?

[wild vine]

ger

[short radish]

ah

[hollow spear]

I used to live in Germany

[frigid ingot]

bois, you have off-topic

[short radish]

do you have something on-topic to be discussed?

[leaden prairie]

should consider swapping

[wild vine]

certainly depends on the state of the market and more than anything on the type of company you work for

[frigid ingot]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BrkZWbhQ9F2xY8v6?fight=44&type=damage-done @short radish these logs. why are they so bad what did i do.

Also, common sense

[vagrant fulcrum]

Wait does crown of the cosmos hc award aotc?

We cleared everything up to it on hc so next raid will be just that

[hollow spear]

I might have the same apex related question that has been asked 500 times @short radish

[short radish]

no

[wild vine]

I personally couldnt care less

it doesnt affect me at all

[short radish]

well it awards an aotc

but not one that matters

[leaden prairie]

yep

[vagrant fulcrum]

Yeah

[hollow trench]

March is the one you want

[vagrant fulcrum]

I see

[leaden prairie]

i know that i understood

[hollow trench]

For the achievement

[leaden prairie]

you dont care about things that dont directly affect you

it was easy to get lol

thanks for comfirming tho

:D

[wild vine]

nah you are just trying to bait stuff and twist and turn shit your way, thats certainly who you are

[short radish]

it doesnt affect me, so fuck every single other person who isn't me

[leaden prairie]

sure bro

its litteraly your words so idk

[wild vine]

yes bro, seen you long enough for that

[short radish]

idk probably bad timing planning or something

log reviews at this time, especially on paladins isn't going to be likely

everyone is still trying to figure out shit

[vagrant fulcrum]

I mean the thing is why would anyone not trying to commit fraud or shady shit with discrimination through pay care?

[wild vine]

he wont get it

[vagrant fulcrum]

Maybe I’m being short sighted here but I don’t see what the problem with the transparency law would be

[short radish]

there is no problem with it

thats what we're saying

[hollow spear]

This trust that companies intend to renumerate you fairly is kinda hilarious

[leaden prairie]

no im agreeing with that

dave guy isnt

[hollow spear]

If you've got a unionized job, that might be true

[wild vine]

zac doesnt get that being against something and just not knowing if its a good idea are two different things

[leaden prairie]

he is trusting daddy musk to pay him his worth

[short radish]

ol mate dave thinks salary should be hidden

because people will mald if they find out

[wild vine]

musk doesnt pay my anything here

[graceful kiln]

hey, guys. I'm late to swapping to sub from outlaw. looking at crafting some gear before raid tonight. should I craft belt and dagger like wowhead says still? I already have two 263 daggers.

[wild vine]

you are just as bad as zac

[short radish]

if you have 2xheroic daggers then probably not

[wild vine]

kinda funny

[short radish]

i mean you still haven't given a better arguement than "people will get mad"

i asked you

and thats all you said

[vagrant fulcrum]

Maybe just hold, no gain to be had really crafting a dagger atm. Craft it with myth crests next reset

[short radish]

what else am i supposed to take your point at

[tulip light]

dagger is fine. second piece w/e you are missing after raid like boots/ cloack/ belt / wrists

[vagrant fulcrum]

Otherwise you’re just wasting gold for Ilvl downgrade rn

[short radish]

yeah i wouldnt bother crafting

could maybe do one arcano weave on an off piece

[hollow spear]

Yeah heroic crest non spark

I'm working in a non unionized job and can tell you from experience that the salary ranges are insane

And the companies benefit from people not knowing their worth

[wild vine]

I said people will mald and most that think they will get anything positive out of it probably wont, because many people indeed underperform. I also said that I dont know if its a good idea or atleast as good as some think it will be. I never said I'm against it, I'm neutral towards it. what you, I or even the mighty anaylst zac think about it or even if we want it doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things anyways

[weak socket]

Is there any good profile to import for UI and cooldown manager stuff? I miss my weakauras and i cba making everything myself

[wild vine]

they or atleast most of them probably benefit from people not doing research and actively talking with them about their salary ye

[vagrant fulcrum]

I think the thing is people can still hide information, this just adds consequences for those caught hiding it

[short radish]

brother this is not neutral

[vagrant fulcrum]

I don’t for a minute think this will stop shady employers being shady

[wild vine]

same

[wild vine]

it is, I'm fine with it either way

thats the definition of neutral

[hollow spear]

Sharing information most definitely helps fighting against shady stuff

[short radish]

okay well you missed the words "either way" when you first said that

[leaden prairie]

how is it neutral if you are agreeing with companies not allowing it

[vagrant fulcrum]

I’d say I think it’s a positive change, but ultimately I question the real positive impact - since we consistently see that those in positions of power abuse

[leaden prairie]

absolutely fine even

[short radish]

then proceeded to defend hiding salaries at every step of the way

[leaden prairie]

quite a stance

not even just fine

[wild vine]

black and white zac incoming

[leaden prairie]

absolutely !

[leaden prairie]

:D

i know what type of person you are is all

i odnt need to have a 5 hour converstaion withj you irl

[wild vine]

obviously I'm presenting the other side if you two are only arguing how it is a great thing in every way

[leaden prairie]

lol

[wild vine]

yeah same

[hollow spear]

Imo there's no benefit to the employees if companies can disallow people from talking about their salaries

[wild vine]

I wouldnt even want to talk to you irl

with how you present yoursellf

[leaden prairie]

thats fine

[wild vine]

as all knowing and the absolute god of analytics

[short radish]

okay so you're playing devils advocate?

[wild vine]

while definitely not knowing anything

[leaden prairie]

sure

all fine to me

[bleak night]

me when i have a dogshit opinion then when confronted claim to just be "presenting the other side"

[hollow spear]

It might not lead to the world becoming paradisical, but it will improve imo

Enlightened centrists

Amirite

[keen holly]

does AA disappear when u cast shadow dance?

[short radish]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[wild vine]

definitely has the potential to improve things, but with how things are actually working atm it just wont do much good and peoples egos will get hurt

[leaden prairie]

wait

it would improve things ?

so its a good thing now

[wild vine]

while the issue will wherever there is currently one will still be the same and the consequent actions are the same aswell

[leaden prairie]

im confused

[hollow spear]

Idc about people's egos if on average salaries improve

[leaden prairie]

why are you subtly shifting your opinion

[minor sonnet]

Isnt this the sub channel

[wild vine]

I'm not, your interpretation and understanding is just lacking

[leaden prairie]

hm

ok my bad !

i must be clueless

[wild vine]

indeed

[keen dome]

People should be able to talk about salaries, I've not followed this conversation though I just wanna have an opinion

[wild vine]

absolutely valid

[leaden prairie]

[hollow spear]

Great opinion iGestalt

[echo lynx]

People always wanna burden other with theyre opinions

[leaden prairie]

absolutely valid

[echo lynx]

And they cant accept different opinions, so yah

[keen dome]

Also people shouldn't private log because it's sad and I wanna look at their logs.

[leaden prairie]

different opinions

[wild vine]

as we already worked out, your comprehension just doesnt suffice, especially with your black and white stance

[leaden prairie]

sure

[wild vine]

private logs are the actual devil

[leaden prairie]

why

[keen dome]

You private log and it's the run you get a perfect 69 on the boss. And the world cannot see it.

And that's a shame

[wild vine]

because I cant see how much I suck in comparison

[leaden prairie]

well you can

its in the log it says hte number

doesnt need to be public to see that

[hollow spear]

Private logs are good because if the good guilds were public logging it would destroy a lot of people's egos

[leaden prairie]

you dont see the actual rank tho sure

like r1 r2

but you see colored nuimber

[leaden prairie]

i agree with this opinion

absolutely valid !

[keen dome]

I'm going to kill duo dragons and get a 0% parse

[wild vine]

its good if you can handle it, most cant

[dapper stirrup]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[leaden prairie]

shh

[wild vine]

insane fight

[leaden prairie]

thats why they should make all logs private

[wild vine]

I can deal with mine getting hurt

I appreciate it even

[leaden prairie]

if you are good at the game you dont need to compare yourself with other anyway

thats my opinion

[wild vine]

sounds fine

[leaden prairie]

absolutely fine even

one would say

[keen dome]

Has there ever been a pug group with this as their title where anybody in it knew what to do.

[wild vine]

undoubtedly, absolutely and irrefutably fine

[leaden prairie]

yes that opinion is indeed valid

[wild vine]

I think I had one in all the years

[leaden prairie]

btw side note

no side note

[wild vine]

pugs usually are only REALLY fine if its alts on the weekend tho

[keen dome]

If the raid lead is actually doing stuff in pugs they tend to be okay.

Like actually paying attention and telling people waht to do, etc.

[leaden prairie]

raid lead in pugs can hard carry a raid

just with 3 raid message

[keen dome]

Yeah

[wild vine]

is that already the side note?

that there is none

[keen dome]

What's the 3 raid messages

[leaden prairie]

ye idk

[keen dome]

the magic sauce

[leaden prairie]

i ran out

[leaden prairie]

DONT DIE

KICKING LOW DPS

[wild vine]

DODGE SWIRLIES

[leaden prairie]

FAILERS GET REPLACED

[wild vine]

^true

[keen dome]

lmao

honestly yeah if they do that and then actually make good on it, it goes a lot better

[wild vine]

tbf I usually use failers get replaced

cant have those underperforming get the same loot

their egos wont handle feedback

[keen dome]

Most of the time they just kick the people doing mechanics and ignore the high DPS but mechanic failures

[chrome palm]

wtf is this sec tech delay man

why does the 2nd clone need to hit a full .8s after the first one

[keen dome]

ye same. I tend to say repeated failures of heroic mechanics get you replaced but if you fail a normal mechanic on heroic you get replaced instantly.

[chrome palm]

meanwhile:

what is their problem man

[leaden prairie]

nah but, i have an example, i dont usually pug raid, but the rare times i did i can see the impact a raid leader can have, remember rashanan the assa boss in tww s1, sometimes you had to drop puddles left, sometimes right, the difference with having a raid leader pinging the side or not, was massive

[keen dome]

It's huge yeah

[chrome palm]

god forbid both clones land near each other

[wild vine]

ye, usually write "XP only - repeated fails will get you replaced - checking logs" even if I dont check logs

[keen dome]

Checking logs is alwasy funny

99% of people don't check logs because I absolutely get invited with my terrible logs

[leaden prairie]

now there is the wcl addon tho

[wild vine]

its just to further pressure the applicants

[leaden prairie]

you see avg logs in game directyl

very good to filter out noobs like gestalt

i use it !

[keen dome]

Most pug people aren't bothering with that addon in my experience. maybe the higher end mythic people on alts

I don't bother with it because typically DPS isn't an issue on heroic

Except this week

[wild vine]

also tanks are kinda big rn, so if you have a good RL and good tanks, it might be rather free

[keen dome]

Yeah

[wild vine]

and most things can be done with pings

[keen dome]

All the fights out atm are pretty tank intensive

[leaden prairie]

pings are suhc a banger

[sharp peak]

what is stealthi's twitch? does he have the vod of his split up?

[keen dome]

love pings

[wild vine]

pings are the best thing that happened as far as features go

ngl

[keen dome]

Doing Saladbar and it was so smooth being able to ping the orb to kill first, then ping the one to kill second. It's great.

Just so smooth

[leaden prairie]

i wish you could have a ping ground only

[vagrant fulcrum]

Agree, maybe I’ll bind it this expac

[keen dome]

Yeah, me too. One that is ground and one that is on someone

[leaden prairie]

its kinda buggy to try and ping close to bosses and shit

[keen dome]

It's annoying when you ping but the boss is huge

[leaden prairie]

you always click on mob idk why

[wild vine]

took me quite a while to bind them and get used to them

[leaden prairie]

even when its not huge

there is a snap mechanic i think

and it goes on boss still for some reason

[keen dome]

Also pinging someone who died to a stupid mechanic is great

[leaden prairie]

even not mouseovering it

[small hearth]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[leaden prairie]

i do agree, that is an absolutely great opinion that one !

[keen dome]

Some people tilt instantly if they get pinged

[jaunty heath]

guys isnt simming as sub rogue fucked up? because it consider haste useless from from like 650, so it simming weird

[leaden prairie]

i have a question aboujt haste actually

[wild vine]

we had some leaving the group in m+ over it

[leaden prairie]

does the trinket htat gives haste that you guys use gives you an additional gcd

or is the haste part essentially wasted

[keen dome]

I've had people who tagequit. My fav is "If you ping me again I will leave the group" in a random pug

[vagrant fulcrum]

League PTSD - tbh I had some friends try to tilt me doing that, I just find it funny

[short radish]

Please tell me you pinged them

Again

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's def league PTSD in a lot of cases

[chrome palm]

im so confused

[keen dome]

multiple people did and they ragequit

[wild vine]

hell yes

[chrome palm]

does the 2nd clone sometimes just lag behind .8s sometimes

[wild vine]

its insane in league

[chrome palm]

and other times it lands with the other one

???

[leaden prairie]

does it matter

[wild vine]

I mean there is a reason they disabled visibility of some ping stuff unless you have a certain honor level

[chrome palm]

i was seeing if you could delay blades to hit both secret clone sets

[keen dome]

I think the onyl time it annoys me is when I get ping'd during a mechanic and I'm doing it properly, and the person pinging me doesn't understand the mechanic

[vagrant fulcrum]

The way they got rid of the bait ping after the community decided it means neck yourself

[leaden prairie]

wasnt there something about blade not working on clones or smth

i dont remmeber

me noob sub

[chrome palm]

that was fixed in like tww2

[leaden prairie]

insane banger

[leaden prairie]

tbf that ping was lame

[chrome palm]

yeah now its just this not working on secret iirc

[keen dome]

I predict getting kicked from multiple Duo Dragon groups today

[dense geode]

yea i dont rly understand why guidon is bis

when we reach the haste w/o it anyway

[leaden prairie]

i think other pings are much more impactful

[keen dome]

I hate this fight so much

[chrome palm]

its ok i didnt want a 30% amp on secret technique

[leaden prairie]

wehn its slightly passive agressive

my favorite is one red eye drop

[vagrant fulcrum]

I only play ARAM now so I’m unsure what the toxicity meta is anymore

[leaden prairie]

drop one eye

bang

[vagrant fulcrum]

Xd

I always liked the missing ping

[leaden prairie]

ye its great but its too classic now

[vagrant fulcrum]

Someone whiffs ult, people spam the ?

[leaden prairie]

i like the eye better

more modern

gen z ping

[vagrant fulcrum]

The eye is sophisticated

[keen dome]

We need a "?" ping in WoW

[leaden prairie]

we had one during beta no ?

when they were testing the pings

[keen dome]

So when someone fails a mechanic in the funniest way possible you should be able to spam "?" on them

[vagrant fulcrum]

Bro, the amount of clown shit that happens in a raid

Shame havoc dh is dead, woulda been funny to ping them more for dumbass shit

[keen dome]

Haha

When we were doing voraius heroic, our warrior who was blasting got knocked off the edge in a comical manner, just flying across the screen

Wouldve been the perfect time for an "?"

[leaden prairie]

normal blue pings are fine tbf

[vagrant fulcrum]

Ngl I felt like this heroic was a lot safer than others

[keen dome]

yeah but I crave maximum comedy

[leaden prairie]

i think its passive agreesive enough

[bleak night]

yeah just dropping a normal ping on someone

so they know you know

[vagrant fulcrum]

All the mechanics have infinite time for you to react

It’s just a “are you watching anything other than cd manager” check

[leaden prairie]

might also be that rotations are so much easier tho

you are less preocupied by that

like if we are talking about sub ..

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's really just DPS checks

In pugging, anyway. All the mechanics are relatively simple.

Bad tanks / DPS checks

[vagrant fulcrum]

Maybe, idk I played sub like a dummy 5 year old when I was forced into it last tier so it wasn’t hard

I just took the -3% or w/e for skipping all the annoying optimisations

[vagrant fulcrum]

Not pugged yet, levelling alt and hope to get some runs in on Tuesday

How hard is crown hc exactly

I’m starting to accept I might be stuck on it for over 3 hrs for our second raid of the week

• it feels like the loot from it is kinda mid

[dense geode]

the fight hurts

idk what is considered hard, but it doesnt feel like anything out of the ordinary

[vagrant fulcrum]

55 guilds Monka

[dense geode]

The Beam/line mechanic seems to be the thing ppl engage with the most that mess up

[vagrant fulcrum]

So it’s just normal but stuff hurts? There must be a new mechanic or two

[keen dome]

My feeling on the first 3 + Dreamrift is that they're easy bosses with harsh DPS checks for this week i.e,. you want everyoen 50k+ for comfy kills.

[dense geode]

Honestly as a rogue it didnt feel any different if there is something new

[keen dome]

Mechanically there's nothing major except tank stuff on the first boss to worry about.

[rain stratus]

50k is harsh? 😅

[keen dome]

for pugs

[leaden prairie]

isnt htat the usual tho

[vagrant fulcrum]

For us dps checks felt super fake, then again like 2/3ds the raid were parsing orange or pink on everything

Maybe we needed to bring more rats / socials along

[keen dome]

Yeah like if you've got good dam it's way easier.

Most of my kills the average has been 45 - 50k DPS from most people with some outliers doing 60 - 70k

[vagrant fulcrum]

Tbh maybe if your whole raid was rogues

That would make the raid harder

[keen dome]

Pug damage disparity is huge and you don't have the elvel of coordination than good groups have to actually make it cohesive

[vagrant fulcrum]

I noticed range have a lot of jobs to do

Especially switching to must kill adds

[keen dome]

Two people in this pug on duo dragons are doing 35k dps lol

[vagrant fulcrum]

Melee zzzz

[vagrant fulcrum]

Jeez, they not bothering to aoe or..?

[keen dome]

A big thing I've seen in pugs is that people do not understand priority damage, switching, etc. Even if assigned.

You can explain it to someone a dozen times and they're still gonna tunnel the boss

[bleak night]

assignments are just suggestions in pugs

[vagrant fulcrum]

I call it the “why can’t someone else do it” mentality

[keen dome]

Yep

People also have zero grasp of damage profiles in pugging, too

[vagrant fulcrum]

Issue is unlike organised raids the bottleneck for pugs isn’t efficiency, no need to give people optimal assignments

[keen dome]

Yep

[weak vector]

as someone who's tried pugging heroic dreamrift all week, 100% this

[keen dome]

Yep

I killed Dreamrift heroic this week in my own pug and hoobyo some people

[jaunty heath]

raidbot want me to play 570 haste

thats situation

[weak vector]

Ive spent maybe 8 hours trying to get it down, but people suck

[hollow spear]

Did you kick failers?

[keen dome]

Yep, and low dps. Our tank was the biggest failer.

Replaced him and killed the boss the next pull without an issue

[hollow spear]

It's crazy how much a bad tank can weigh you down

[keen dome]

Guardian druid who couldn't get aggr on adds during the add part

Boggles my mind

[wild vine]

Kinda felt like chima shouldve been harder

Maybe because its a separate raid

Idk

[mint bobcat]

Am I coping or will our 4 set and this 3% buff actually have us somewhat viable? Yuge burst has historically been good for phasing bosses out of difficult phases etc. Maybe I'm just blisfully ignorant.

[leaden prairie]

i didnt do the boss but its supposed to be toward early mid

in term of difficulty

idk if it felt like that for you ?

if so thats normal

[keen dome]

Def did, yeah

Felt between Duo Dragon's and Saladbar in dif

[leaden prairie]

ye

thats expected

[wild vine]

Ye probably around that

[keen dome]

Duo dragons feels way fucking harder than anything else

[wild vine]

The jump from normal to hc was whatever aswell

[leaden prairie]

ye duo dragon is maybe harder than it should

its def harder than paladin boss

which it shouldnt

but happens

[hollow spear]

Rough

[leaden prairie]

i mean paladin boss isnt an end boss eihter tho

[keen dome]

Yeah

My experience in pugging duo dragon's is that the void howl overlap and dread breath is a huge issue

[wild vine]

Might also be more of a test raid

To see how thing work with the new addon mechanics

Without WAs

[keen dome]

Bosses were hitting 75% into intermission and I think you get 3? intermissions on heroic?

[leaden prairie]

first boss of the 2 boss raid is supposed to be harder than paladin in theory

it should that boss > last boss void > last boss of 2 boss raid

[keen dome]

I don't see how because it looks mechanically so simple

[leaden prairie]

ye i know

i mean

paladin also is simple mehcanically

isnt it

[keen dome]

true, true

I mean Saladbar heroic in Manaforge was also extremely simple and lmao

[leaden prairie]

i mean smoldering was simple

smolderon

[keen dome]

oh god

lmao

fuck

[plush roost]

Inb4 mythic bird intermission is so fast you need to memorize floor patterns or youre dead without movement skill

[keen dome]

that boss killed so many pug groups

[leaden prairie]

its all about tuning you know

:D

[keen dome]

yeeee

[leaden prairie]

i mean i guess the balls mechanic was really hard

but

[keen dome]

On heroic? I never found it hard

It's just people were really dumb about it

[plush roost]

Ye concept is simple but i can see them making it turbo crazy

[leaden prairie]

ye

[plush roost]

On mythic

[keen dome]

It looked fucking brutal on mythic though

[leaden prairie]

yes

but on paper its simple

just dont soak 2 balls

you have a debuff

pretty easy

[keen dome]

I'm hoping the first boss of Voidspire is another Plexus situation where he's harder than the next boss.

[plush roost]

??? I cant help myself

I love balls

[leaden prairie]

bro ..

[plush roost]

Chat is movinf so fast nobody will see om gau

[leaden prairie]

what was plexus

[keen dome]

Saladbar 2.0 is a great excuse to talk about breaking big blue balls until the boss drops goop in the floor

[keen dome]

Harder than Soulbinder for pugs so if a pug group killed it, then you'd kill Soulbinder easily.

[leaden prairie]

i legit dont rmember the boss

i need

[keen dome]

first boss of manaforge

[leaden prairie]

more than names

i cant do it

[keen dome]

Walls, big robot

very pink tunnel

[plush roost]

First boss mfo

[leaden prairie]

ah ye

i member

[upper narwhal]

intermission specifically designed to troll outlaw

[leaden prairie]

i member guys i mmember

[leaden prairie]

i was on boss in 2 gcd

was fine

you wanna know what is an intermission specifically designed to troll outlaw

[upper narwhal]

smh not contributing to very important add damage

griefer

[leaden prairie]

last boss of this current raid

[keen dome]

Haha

[leaden prairie]

straight 1 min afk phase

[plush roost]

Alleria intermission XD

[leaden prairie]

boss in froont of you

but you cant hit boss

[upper narwhal]

🙂

[leaden prairie]

why?

idk

[keen dome]

Just go melee the boss it's fine what's the worst that will happen

[plush roost]

Meanwhile sub gets free superchargers

[leaden prairie]

just to make outlaw worse i guess

[wild vine]

Still waiting for blizz to get us another painsmith

[leaden prairie]

i dont get this intermission xd

it seems so pointless to me that you cant hit the boss

like

just let me hit it no ?

[keen dome]

reverse razageth

[upper narwhal]

idk why we can't at least melee

[leaden prairie]

i can dodge and hit

im a big boy bro

[vivid phoenix]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[leaden prairie]

i swear blizzard

i can dodge

while hitting

i swear

[plush roost]

Imagine they throw an add on mythic

[keen dome]

lmao

[vagrant fulcrum]

I’ve got a theory on the haste thing, you should be over the cap by a comfortable bit

[keen dome]

Maybe on Mythic there's no intermission at all

[leaden prairie]

i mean i hope they throw something bro idk its so cringe to me

[vagrant fulcrum]

To allow a margin for error

[vivid phoenix]

what was the command for the haste breakpoints again?

[vagrant fulcrum]

Like .2-3s or so

[plush roost]

According to journal its both intermissions combined

[vagrant fulcrum]

On dance

[chrome palm]

this is what you already do

[plush roost]

So ig they just want u to dance

[keen dome]

What if they're lying

[wild vine]

I found 20% to be the most comfortable so far tbh

[plush roost]

Could be

[keen dome]

fight the simulcarum while doing the intermission

[chrome palm]

if the downtime phase involved actually dodging something other than extremely slow moving orbs it might be more interesting

[vagrant fulcrum]

Fair, it’s weird I used to love macros but atm I really don’t want to get into using them again since doing so before made me feel awful when it wasn’t optimal

[plush roost]

Surely mythic has something goin on

[leaden prairie]

i mean it prolly will be in mythic idk

[upper narwhal]

i'd hope the mythic intermission is a bit more involved

[vagrant fulcrum]

So I’m having too much haste bc human reactions

[chrome palm]

yeah deepening shadows is just some of the worst sub design in recent memory

[leaden prairie]

i just think its extremely lame that they have this sort of

[plush roost]

Have to dodge 2 arrows maybe

[chrome palm]

its just awful

[leaden prairie]

policy

where

idk wow players arent good enough to do mechanics while hitting boss?

[keen dome]

What if the undying adds exist on the mythic intermission and you have to get them hit by barrage to remove the debuff while dodging stuff

[leaden prairie]

for some reason

[keen dome]

Just give the outlaw one of them to hit for a minute in a corner

[chrome palm]

the whole raid has no dodging on heroic

[vagrant fulcrum]

I don’t think they’re super far off the mark tbh, maybe the play is to have haste be really beneficial for Sht generation or something else that feeds into damage

[leaden prairie]

if the damage is irrelevant it doesnt make outlaw better

[chrome palm]

it just needs rework the whole haste interactions with sub are just the worst thing ever

[leaden prairie]

outlaw isnt just bad cause its not hitting anythign

[chrome palm]

everything about sub is the worst thing you could imagine

[keen dome]

I assumed it was uptime

[leaden prairie]

its also bad cause you gyus just get your cds back

[chrome palm]

rn

[leaden prairie]

during an afk phase

[keen dome]

that's true

Sub is just the maximum lazy boys spec

[leaden prairie]

like sub legit press cd before phase, comes out of it and press it again

you just remove the downtime of cd specs

[chrome palm]

we are 30 man split and pushing at like maybe 1:40 sometimes

[leaden prairie]

while adding downtime to non cd specs

[chrome palm]

if you are in a real group you dont get another 1:30 set

[leaden prairie]

its like double the thing you know

[chrome palm]

in p1

[leaden prairie]

thats why outlaw get turbo fucked by these

its not just muh uh downtime bad

[keen dome]

That does make a lot more sense, yeah

[tepid trellis]

the wall of purple

[leaden prairie]

im assuming mythic is real

and you dont push

[chrome palm]

maybe 2 mins get another use in mythic

[keen dome]

glorious

[chrome palm]

salhadaar on heroic had stupid timings too

[keen dome]

He did yeah

Did anybody try lust / heroing during the first damage amp instead of on pull, outta interest?

[leaden prairie]

ye

my guild did

no clue waht that did

i played outlaw

[keen dome]

🫡

[ionic wave]

are the cool kids using shuriken/black powder during shadow dance?

[grim vessel]

You're going to have to be more specific

[ionic wave]

i was reading somewhere that you didn't necessarily have to be in shadow dance for shuriken storm/black powder spam and could save the charges. just wanted to double check that.

[grim vessel]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[grim vessel]

During aoe you want to storm / powder regardless of whether you're in dance

[stable plume]

If you’re not in shadow dance and there’s 2+ targets, you can shuriken BP for better damage

[ionic wave]

makes sense, thanks!

[soft oriole]

How bad is vessel to play with? I know it sims great but how annoying is it

[wild vine]

Very

Unless they change something about the visibility

[soft oriole]

I'll farm it if they make it not annoying i guess, my sanity is worth more than dps

[hollow spear]

Don't think they'll touch the visibility in the short term or at all

[wild vine]

Its kinda like antenna in dark green without the orbs moving and they are smaller

[hollow spear]

They already did, which improved it. Still kinda ass imo.

[patent iris]

Do Lightbrigade and puzzlebox share CD?

[wild vine]

Ye, it is 2x better but still ass

[pliant pendant]

are we midmaxing apextalents ? or is it a waste !

[keen dome]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[keen dome]

If you want too

[pliant pendant]

okei ! then i have done it right !

[vagrant fulcrum]

I still have no idea what the things we pick up look like xd

[distant chasm]

Anyone else notice that getting the apex talent proc to generate points wont work when you go into Dance, ill use one finisher then wont get it

[dapper sigil]

is Vessel a good trinket to utilize in raid?

[uncut juniper]

which talent reduce sectec cd?

sometimes my sectec is like 15 sec

[hazy lichen]

whats best way of farming veteran gear

[spare totem]

Anyone else having issues with pre pot not working with their macro?

[queen rain]

How much of a dps inc is 2 set?

[left ledge]

Haste

Not a talent

[uncut juniper]

really?

[left ledge]

Think like 9%

Or something like that

[left ledge]

Any ability with a green number for cd is hasted cd

[marsh bear]

What equip trinkets do we want from mplus if we have no raid trinkets?

Is it just Vessel and solarflare prism?

[hazy lichen]

is deepening shadows delay a bug

or intended

[chrome palm]

its just a reality of how the game snapshots stats i guess

[lilac stag]

~9% for 2pc
another ~5% for 4pc

[mental kettle]

crazy

tahts like insanely powerful for s1 tier

unless im cookd

[lilac stag]

we’ve got the strongest set

[mental kettle]

i have 0pc and i feel like trash

[lilac stag]

Most of the 2pc are 2-5%

[spiral needle]

the ole 2pc is stronger than almost every spec's 4pc trick

[mental kettle]

\

i did some hc pug

first boss voidspire

got assigned to boss ST only no adds

then get kicked for low damage after kill

hmmm

[vocal rock]

Obvi the move is catalyst mythic track 2pc next week

[tepid trellis]

@vale pine what we ended up with and still got Aleria HC left tmrw

[vocal rock]

What do we think ilvl to run +10s will be

[keen dome]

those criminals, how dare they

[small hearth]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[torpid echo]

what's the best replacement for vessel if I hate catching souls?

[mental kettle]

sadge

[vocal rock]

Probably with our 3% buff we will be in high demand for keys and can maybe get invites at lower ilvl/io

[eager latch]

if you're in a decent group, should be able to do 10s at like 260

[keen dome]

I imagine 10's will be pretty comfy week 2.

[eager latch]

yeah, we're going into it pretty geared

[keen dome]

I hopeso anyway because I wanna do a 10 on reset, and if it's hard then I'm gonna be suffering

[tepid trellis]

not bad start

[mental kettle]

i prefer my sea of red

[keen dome]

Stealthi panda arc?? huge

[mental kettle]

[uncut juniper]

my gears are bad

[mental kettle]

i cba enchanting trash champ shit

[tepid trellis]

guild pays for it

so we chill

[mental kettle]

aite wtf i didnt know they were chill like that fr

[keen dome]

Guilds should pay for it 'cos it's a real good way to make sure everyone is fully setup.

[tepid trellis]

gb has like 120mil

we chilling

[keen dome]

My review of the double dragon fight so far is I don't like it, it's bad, terrible fight.

[azure thicket]

do we get a catalyst charge next reset?

or next next

[keen dome]

Nope, 31st / 1st.

[mental kettle]

every 2 weeks

but if u do all 10s u get a charge

[azure thicket]

so vault prio is probably 3rd tier piece > other right?

[mental kettle]

or 2k rating i mean

w/e

[azure thicket]

truege

[raven sail]

Can we have SB, SD and Sectec on same macro?

[spiral needle]

you wont want to if/when you get an on use haste trinket

[azure thicket]

i guess i should gear sin for raid time to hoard gear

[mental kettle]

imagine\

unironically playing puzzlebox

and giving yourself ligma

[keen dome]

Maybe the puzzle is figuring out it's a bad trinket

[azure thicket]

ye sugma cuisine on 1000

[mental kettle]

why the 2004 character sheet tho

do you like mousing over to find out what needs enchanting/gems?

[azure thicket]

yeah it's good for the brain to remember things

[leaden prairie]

should ask that to blizzard

[azure thicket]

neuroplasticity is important :)b

[keen dome]

hell yeah neuroplascticity

[mental kettle]

wrong channel

[azure thicket]

i mean uh

[leaden prairie]

your name is yellower than mine

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/quagsire-pokemon-pokémon-quag-this-meme-gif-11131610862525754922

[mental kettle]

get this guy mods

[keen dome]

that's a good pokemon

[azure thicket]

nah but i just dislike elvui's aesthetic

the lil bezzles on the default ui are nice sometimes even if the nameplates look bad etc

[keen dome]

MRT is pretty nice for quick enchant inspection on myself when I forget and the addon is working

[elfin hound]

4p gang

[keen dome]

Although I'm not sure why it's telling me to enchant my cloak and bracers when I don't think there ARE cloak or bracer enchants..

[azure thicket]

turn on % for enemy players in world pvp/bgs/etc and send it

[mental kettle]

i like this character sheet idk

[keen dome]

That's pretty nice

[mental kettle]

i can see all the slots

where im saving money

[keen dome]

I like the icons next to it showing the sockets

Minimalist info without cluttering it all up

[fiery fog]

what addon is that

[mental kettle]

Chonky characer sheet

character*

[keen dome]

It's even got a good name

[wild vine]

Kinda like the stats window visuals

[keen dome]

lmao

[worldly tinsel]

Any ideas why

#showtooltip Black Powder
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

only works some of the time? is it just me being out of melee? or is it not reliable?

[left ledge]

Omg I get to do it

Is it on your stealth bar

[worldly tinsel]

lmao got it

[tribal vortex]

But also coup needs meelee

😂

but it's one of the 2 things always

[worldly tinsel]

nope, macro wasn't on stealth bar >.< y'all the real mvps

[keen dome]

It's nice when it's the easy solutions

[golden totem]

Classic

[hazy lichen]

whats the point of recasting shadowstrike at full cp for a apex talent proc with the conditions

[left ledge]

More damage

[hazy lichen]

how

[left ledge]

The numbers are bigger

Thank god for autocorrect

[tepid trellis]

you sack 2-3 cp for more finisher dmg

[left ledge]

^

[hazy lichen]

does proccing the apex talent increase finisher damage?

[left ledge]

It echos the finisher

As shadow dam

[hazy lichen]

does it work with st

[left ledge]

It’s quite strong

It works with all finishers

[tepid trellis]

work a bit less with sectech

[left ledge]

But you only want to force it based on the conditions you saw

[tepid trellis]

does insane dmg with coup + Darkest night

[left ledge]

Yeah esp darkest night

[tepid trellis]

the top part is the clone

[left ledge]

That shit is jiga

[trail bison]

with guidon its alright to macro w blades right? you would just press it slightly before dance?

[tepid trellis]

yes

[trail bison]

big ty

[left ledge]

Ya you just need like 0.2 sec

[hazy lichen]

wouldnt that only replicate the builders tho

[tepid trellis]

the thid point

[ripe flame]

Apex r3 makes it so it would apply to

[tepid trellis]

makes it work on finishers

[ripe flame]

That

[graceful osprey]

Overall, we’re still lower than augmentation…it’s over

[hazy lichen]

so if i have 5 stacks of shadow techniques and shadow strike then it procs the apex talent and then eviscerate it replicates the sshadow strike and the eviscerate?

[tepid trellis]

doesent proc a shadow strike

it just spawns a clone that will Evis

[hazy lichen]

so it removes the first rank?

[tepid trellis]

nope they work together

[silk fiber]

I just dont seem to do enough damage for ?? difficulty at 250 ilevel

[tepid trellis]

its a Shadow clone that echoes

not a shadowstrike

[silk fiber]

I cant kill the first set of adds fast enough before the boss comes back over

[mental kettle]

are you meant to use that full cp SS on aoe too?

[left ledge]

No

Only up to 3 targets

[mental kettle]

so it is all targets

[tepid trellis]

as trickster yes

you force the proc with strike on supercharged

[mental kettle]

yeah thanks

[left ledge]

For non sectec

[tepid trellis]

non sectech finisher

[mental kettle]

yep

all that for 1%

idk about it chief

[left ledge]

Idk if it’s 1% in aoe

[hazy lichen]

but it says if u use an attack that uses shadow techniques to generate combo points which is shadow strike with 5 stacks of shadow technique it will guarentee create a shadow clone that repeats the attack so wouldnt it replicate the shadow strike and then the eviscerate cause of the rank 3 talent and rank 1 talent @tepid trellis

[left ledge]

Might be less lmao

[tepid trellis]

on single target it mostly plays the same

[trail bison]

this is only for the 1 point sc finisher right? you wouldnt do this with no sc points inside of dance? or am i wrong about that

[ripe flame]

Yes supercharged finisher.

[tepid trellis]

yes its only for SC

[minor sonnet]

So used to spending cp once you get it, hard reworking to keep generating to force the apex talent lol

[trail bison]

gotcha ty

[mental kettle]

without the 4pc you can't get 2nd sec tec in SB without lust right?

[left ledge]

It’s a minor optimization

You will prob be impacted more by variance

In ST I feel like it mostly plays itself

[hazy lichen]

why not proc apex talent for sectech

[left ledge]

Very rarely do you actually have to force it

[left ledge]

Because it half works on sectec

And so it’s not worth forcing

[hazy lichen]

ok

[left ledge]

Works only on the physical part

[minor sonnet]

Theres a huge damage loss on using it with sectech

[left ledge]

Which is still decent but not the bulk of the damage

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[hazy lichen]

so would it be better to not use sectech first global if its procc'd after sd

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left ledge]

You still use Sectec first

[tepid trellis]

the strike at full cp as a 20+% chance of proccing a clone cuz its not expending stacks (the 20+% is from Weapon master + replicating shadows) and the finisher following the strike has 100% chance cuz its consuming 5 ShT stacks

[left ledge]

In fact, sectec should be macro’d into your dance as trickster

[tepid trellis]

you still sectech as first finisher

you swim in ShT stacks

[hazy lichen]

bro

my sim is doing some weird shit

and its doing 10k more dps than me

on dummy

[left ledge]

What weird shit

[tepid trellis]

its lowkey hard to not have apex proc on SC finisher

[hazy lichen]

in opener

its not using double dance

[shrewd monolith]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy lichen]

also

[left ledge]

What’s your haste

Also you prob don’t have 4p

[hazy lichen]

736

i dont have tier yet

[left ledge]

That’s kinda weird but prob a no lust thing

[hazy lichen]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6K77ynrSRwZu8Z2v4h6oCV

[left ledge]

Double dance isn’t amazing no tier without lust

We had this discussion a couple days ago

[hazy lichen]

it also doesnt always use sectec first finisher after sd

[left ledge]

The only time it won’t is if it tries to clip some blades time in dance

Can’t view the casts from that sim on mobile

[tepid trellis]

it cant sectech first finisher during the 2nd dance on pull

its not up yet

[left ledge]

^

[hazy lichen]

so its okay to do that

to press shadow dance before sectec is up

[tepid trellis]

it just clips some of blades to get value

[steel horizon]

Still keep her as healer though?

[elfin hound]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[left ledge]

Yes just as long as Sectec can fit inside dance

But it’s quite conditional

[hazy lichen]

even if its not super charged

[minor sonnet]

You want sectec to be within your dance

[deft moss]

advice on the vessel?

[left ledge]

Sometimes you do want to double dance in blades

[elfin hound]

someone got the haste value breakpoints?

[minor sonnet]

18%

[elfin hound]

you wont find the clone in raid

[left ledge]

680-700 stat is what you should aim for

[tepid trellis]

684 haste stat

[left ledge]

Anything above is still ok

[tepid trellis]

is 7.2sec of dance

[hazy lichen]

idk how the sim is doing 10k more dps than me tho

makes no sense

[deft moss]

yea i assumed as much and its more of a theoretical thing and not really good ingame

[loud wharf]

Any specific way we are simming to make sure I am raid optimized? What settings at the bottom should I select?

[elfin hound]

there was a sheet with all values