subtlety

[oak grotto]

" Cooldowns don't line up well naturally, which often means we delay both Secret Technique and Shadow Dance slightly when Shadow Blades is about to come off cooldown." So to answer your question Yeah you just hold Dance/SecTech so it lines up

If I understood your question correctly that is

[wide cave]

https://tenor.com/view/clapping-clap-applause-standing-ovation-gif-15648815

[tacit thistle]

Sorry for the question, but I just simmed my Sub Rogue on Target Dummy and it says 39.6k DPS, upon doing 5mins on a dummy myself I managed 37.2k - are the dummy sims a reliable way to see if I'm doing the rotation well?

[vale pine]

yes, you would delay dance/secret if blades comes up in less than 10 secs

so you can line it up

[lofty path]

oh I do delay sectech / dance if blades is coming up in 10s

[vale pine]

yes

[lofty path]

that's what leads to the scenario of having a dance charge up with one incoming in 10s when blades comes up

is that just normal?

[vale pine]

thats normal

[lofty path]

zzzz

so I am playing correctly, I think my gear must just be shit

[vale pine]

did you use combat potions?

[lofty path]

yep

rank 2 light's potential

flask & oils

[vale pine]

hmm

[lofty path]

want a log?

[vale pine]

best way to find out is to post a log, just do a !log

[lofty path]

!log

[vale pine]

i need to do m0's in a few minutes so don't have a lot of time to look right now, but maybe someone else has time

[crimson thorn]

Hello, how am i supposed to use Algeth'ar Puzzle Box? Casting it right before entering SB?

[lofty path]

yeah no worries, I am missing an enchant on a weapon but that's not the difference between a blue parse & doing well

[vale pine]

ye, use it with blades

[crimson thorn]

K thx, its a little clunky, cause it has GCD and casting time

[crystal bone]

we've solved that box's puzzle for multiple tiers, you'd think we would solve it instantly by now

but no, still 2 seconds

[crimson thorn]

Gonna deal with it i guess

[oak grotto]

I just want to be able to do it in stealth

[swift tinsel]

dude

if only

[potent frigate]

is there a way to track the trinket buffs? With the removal of WA, i seem to not able to get it in the buff manager

[vale pine]

i mean its simple - box -> cooldowns. But i agree, its not the most "fun" to play around

[steel horizon]

Curious why the FAQ says to only buff non sectec finishers with AA in dance. Does AA not buff sectec?

[swift tinsel]

not with the base cdm

can't add items/etc

which is dumb

[jade urchin]

is it trickster all the way for bosses rn? even saladbar seems like almost 100% trickster from logs

[vale pine]

only works on the physical part of it

and most of secrets damage is in the clone attacks

[potent frigate]

Oh yeah, I loved the tracking of items such as pots and trinkets. Was a huge help. Shame it's not possible then

[steel horizon]

Got it. Thanks

[swift tinsel]

a few addons allow it, Arc UI has innate support, BCDM might as well, Will's CDM I think has a pane for it

[umbral fulcrum]

ayije cdm also has it

[oak grotto]

Wait where do you see that? I cant seem to find it am I blind

[hollow raptor]

none of the bosses are pure single target sadly

[swift tinsel]

just below the macros

[steel horizon]

Its there in #subtlety-faq

[vale pine]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[jade urchin]

ye im aware but i thought deathstalker should still be ahead on vorasios or saladbar

[oak grotto]

Aaaa thank you

[sacred gull]

hello, do yo uuse an addon to track poison buffs ? and do you have an other one to remind you to dance before pull ?

[smoky badger]

It is say to play around 700 haste on Trick but the sims is always less than 600 🤔

[wet jacinth]

i thought its just 18%

[oak grotto]

I use Buffreminders addon to keep track of poisons, but that's for food, raidbuffs and everything

[sacred gull]

18% in theory, 20% to be more confortable with some input lag delay

[chilly kite]

just waiting for an addon to go with vessel of tortured souls, or blizzard to realise you can't see the souls in raid lol

[left ledge]

@vale pine when does the APL prefer to double dance in blades (outside of lust)? I can’t seem to figure it out

Seems like with and without tier have both instances, even at 700 haste

I haven’t checked to see if flag trinket is a part of it but thought I’d ask

[vale pine]

the apl does not force it outside of holding when blades is close

[left ledge]

Ah

[vale pine]

so it naturally double dances or not

[long marlin]

is anything outside of patchwerk reliable? What do you use for a fight like chim?

[vale pine]

if dance is not ready

[left ledge]

Ah ok

[smoky badger]

so should i try to go 700 or should i listen sims ?

[left ledge]

So it’s just more important to not lose dance sectecs?

[sacred gull]

hectic add cleave maybe

[vale pine]

there is always the possibility of more optimizations, but unless you do specific raid events like damage amps or stuns, simulations should work fine

i am not a fan of hectic add cleave

as it spawns high amounts of adds

[sacred gull]

ok

[vale pine]

dungeon slice is more reliable for mixed encounter types

even tho its named "dungeon"

[sacred gull]

any supercharger reminder addon guys ?

[vale pine]

specific encounters like paladings are also more like 3 target cleave

[sacred gull]

so you do patchwerk 3 targets ?

[vale pine]

can do

the fight is 2-3 target cleave

[fiery fog]

my sim right before our first raidday starts

did everything i could kekw

[fair stump]

Are there any optimizations we should do? Like holding buttons at specific cds or using certain abilities first?

[dense mountain]

@vale pine wait sorry if im misunderstanding your previous message. does the APL not care about pooling to have like 1.5dances before sending ShadowBlades? So if i have blades up and i only have 1 dance it still will send?

[vale pine]

the apl does hold cooldowns for blades for the ~9-10 seconds, but it does not pool more than that

[sacred gull]

heroic weapon ?

[vale pine]

dance lasts 8+ sec

[smoky badger]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kuw9kDdaiu3ZDhsUbt7Kd7

[fiery fog]

crafted + champ from skyreach

[vale pine]

so holding your cooldowns for these 10 sec means you already get one charge back once the dance is finished

[smoky badger]

If you can check too need some advice

[wispy pebble]

when do we use puzzle box? Right after first shadowstrike and before blades?

[dense mountain]

okay yeah that more lines up with how i have been playing thanks. ❤️

[wispy pebble]

i hate cast time trinkets lmao

[swift tinsel]

they're annoying for melee

annoying and disruptive

[steel horizon]

With the new AA rule, would it make more sense to make sure AA is up before entering dance?

Then we could send the AA eviscerate first, and sectec second so they would both still be supercharged.

Would avoid us having to SS in dance at full CP to proc AA for the second finisher

[molten locust]

im new to subtletly, is it normal to have some down time where you are starved of energy/combopoints when you have no shadow dance up? (not super often but definitely in prolonged fights)

[wispy pebble]

yea just makes the opener feel super clunky

[fair stump]

Yes

[vale pine]

before going into cooldowns

[vale pine]

yes, thats normal

subtlety is ressource flooded during cooldowns

but outside starved

[plush roost]

Premeditation is bugged to prevent apex from working while the premed buff is up gg

[vale pine]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[wind token]

after aoe nerfs is sub still good for dungeons

[steel wyvern]

Depends on the dungeon

But yes it’s fine

[vale pine]

there will be more tuning next week, so we will see

[frozen urchin]

I got LFR Tier shoulders, but my Heroic Delve piece was shoulder as well.

Should I use a catalyst to get 2 set on a champion piece or should I hold it for vault and upgrade those shoulders after I open it?
The 2 set for sub seems kinda insane to not have for my raid today.

[plush roost]

Alright lads time to ragebait

Omg emergency buff dk and arms warrior!!!

[lucid jackal]

Dude how did unholy get a hotfix 25% buff

Actually how

[plush roost]

This is OBJECTIVE and FACTUAL

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[strange chasm]

On bright side all the rogue specs seem to be the same

none is really ABOVE the other it seems

[plush roost]

Is it actually 25% or u rage baiting too.

[chilly kite]

i mean they got a huge hotfix

[wind token]

because it has a lot of players

[lilac stag]

Are we winning?

[wind token]

since all the tier list youtubers everyone rolled uhdk for MN

[chilly kite]

meanwhile we are just stealthed in the corner like normal

[west arch]

Is there any way to track the bufo of the receptacle bead?

[wispy pebble]

yea all 3 suck lmao

[wind token]

lol

[crystal bone]

[plush roost]

Ye

[wind token]

maybe global rogue buff 15%

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/noice-brooklyn-ninenine-b99-smile-gif-11928987

[vivid cobalt]

do you still get a free piece of tier for completing aotc again

[upper narwhal]

main character spec

[leaden prairie]

Cause they don't have a raid buff guys

[wispy pebble]

idk i seem to get pulled out of stealth frequently in a lot of dungeons lmao

[leaden prairie]

[crystal bone]

rogues are the character u see in the first scene of the movie, then never again

[wispy pebble]

we were in the housing cinematic! With DFA!

[keen dome]

Blizz should make enrage timers sooner, I feel like 10:30 is just mean. THat's so much time!

[potent frigate]

When using enchant on a weapon - does it matter whether it's MH or OH? Because I can enchant my crafted dagger right now with "main hand enchant" but the weapon will eventually go into off hand when I get mythic dagger from raid

[lilac stag]

It doesn’t matter

[rose parrot]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[leaden prairie]

Wtf

I don't wanna do that

Delete this command

[swift tinsel]

2button spec

[lilac stag]

it’s outlaw tier. You don’t have to

[leaden prairie]

Well

[keen dome]

I hope it is outlaw tier

[leaden prairie]

Last boss is unplayable as outlaw lol

So

[keen dome]

I want it to be outlaw tier. I am willing it to be outlaw tier.

[leaden prairie]

Well last boss

Kinda last boss

[keen dome]

Just grapple to it

[plush roost]

Alleria

[lilac stag]

So I was lied to

[leaden prairie]

Theorycally second to last boss

[keen dome]

Why is it unplayable as Outlaw, outta interest?

[plush roost]

Oh paladins :^)

[keen dome]

Oh wait is it the pacify

[leaden prairie]

I mean, sub seems to be doing a bit behind the other 2 specs but it also has a tier set 10% better than the other 2 specs so

And 10% is a big number

[leaden prairie]

No I mean

Valeera

Is not the last boss

[lucid jackal]

Dk literally got a 25% buff

[lilac stag]

Yeah the sub tier percent is silly.

[plush roost]

Oh shit valeera secret boss?

[leaden prairie]

The one from the 2 raid boss is last boss

[lucid jackal]

Not ragebait

Not kappa

[plush roost]

I knew she was trolling my delves!

[keen dome]

Where's the other Windrunner sister anyway

[plush roost]

Also ik im just trollin u

[keen dome]

Did Blizz forget about her. I don't remember her name

[plush roost]

Vareesa?

[keen dome]

Maybe?

Sure

[plush roost]

She gets a mention in the dungeon

[olive canyon]

!trinkets

[plush roost]

Good enough

[fleet acorn]

What weapon enchants did u guys go for? crafted the expensive stat one?

[leaden prairie]

1 min downtime phase, twice in the fight, also coincide with 1 minn 30 cds for sub, as in they come back when boss gets back up

Or it was like that on liquid stream at least

[keen dome]

oooh. Okay yeah that makes total sense.

[plush roost]

Its always a sub tier bud

[keen dome]

But it could've been an Outlaw tier and that would've been really funny.

[lucid jackal]

Imo sin execute is gonna matter a lot on that fight

[leaden prairie]

I mean we don't know

I'm just saying that boss is probably bad for outlaw

Could be an outlaw tier tho

[plush roost]

Shh we dont push sin

Till after buffs

[leaden prairie]

(hehe xd)

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel if I don’t have tier, I have 702 haste and guidon, and I’m using the CDR curio in delves how do I line up my sblades with dance and Sectech?

[keen dome]

Infinite "can I use my crafted dagger OH" posts

[leaden prairie]

Crafting dagger when 2nd boss drop dagger

If I speak

[wispy pebble]

i wonder how dmg ranking will look when everybody has tier set

[leaden prairie]

Just loot 2

[keen dome]

Also I'm really starting to feel old in WoW. Two back-to-back 10:30 pulls on Chiarmius and my mouse arm is killing me.

[lilac stag]

This is why outlaw is unplayable

[keen dome]

well it is for me

2 buton spec is ideal except when the boss fight goes on for 10 minutes

[lilac stag]

My BP finger is tired

[keen dome]

Haha

I'm still confused at Saladbar 2.0 only taking 3 pulls in a pug though

[rose parrot]

Hello, Do we still use shadowstrike at 5+ shadow techniques?

[swift tinsel]

flip two coins, then flip table

[fair stump]

What curios are people playing with valeera?

[shadow lance]

Context?

[woeful hull]

Hello, is there a section on the Discord server that lists the best items to craft for the Rogue Subtlety?

[rose parrot]

To get apex talent proc. I've heard that it's only optimal inside lust and that you only do with supercharged cps

[shadow lance]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[shadow lance]

See above and it's not lust depending

[twilit crest]

new rogue here. do sub rogues do more dmg behind targets in pve? seems hard in huge groups to see when you are behind a target

[hazy breach]

Not really no

[rose parrot]

It's this line 'Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - ☑️ Yes'. Looking at logs and other guides it seems very debatable.

[hazy breach]

Technically backstab does, but it does practically no damage anyway.

[leaden prairie]

I mean

You get parried when in front lol

In raid

[hazy breach]

Not as trickster

[leaden prairie]

Well

Sure true

[hazy breach]

But yeah if you are playing deathstalker you lose ~3% of dps standing infront of raid bosses

[primal zephyr]

backstab does no damage so

does it even matter

[arctic abyss]

do they have anything else in works for sub rogues?

[fiery fog]

should i still use haste flask at 607 haste?

[olive canyon]

tier

unironically i genuinely think thats their approach

[arctic abyss]

so we'll be usefull again when tier gear is aquired eh?

[olive canyon]

more than useful

we will be content, happy possibly.

[arctic abyss]

did the raid last night ended up around 3-4th dps... but hell I outgeared everyone and they had blues ugh

[shadow lance]

Don't do then

What you want me to say 🙂

[real delta]

I know we want to hold Dance for SecTech, but do we just send Dance as long as we can get a single SecTech in during the window, or do we want to hold Dance long enough so SecTech eats one of our charged CPs?

[olive canyon]

well ideally you want to sectec first in dance

just wait so its supercharged

is there a list of racials around by chance?

[arctic abyss]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bYvdruU3E7N4qW9hjg7EHC Any suggestions?

[rose parrot]

appreciate the reply but that's why i'm asking here

[shadow lance]

But I don't understand why your argue

You ask, I reply, you say no

[glass rock]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dTckFQQfqmQxj6WVex4rWa why does my sims change haste at 16% to more crit gear ``?

[fervent plover]

hey, do we craft weapons ?

[grand summit]

So like, when do I use puzzlebox?

[arctic abyss]

i use it 3 secs before pull

[hazy breach]

Right before blades

[warm marlin]

probably can't hit breakpoint anyway with the options you have selected so it opts for more crit

[woven sonnet]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Mastery >= `Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700)` > `Critical Strike` > Versatility

[barren haven]

So we follow those stats even when sims say take 550 haste and more crit in dslice?

With my selected option I could reach 100 haste +

Stil it says take mastery / crit

[fleet acorn]

Ready to raid

[warm marlin]

with the changes to the robot you need to be able to hit like 680-700 range (it was made more realistic to what players can do)

then it will probably recommend haste, assuming you aren't saccing infinite mastery to pick up infinite vers in the process

[olive canyon]

!race

damn anyone got a racial bonus list or anything?

[hazy breach]

https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/subtlety/races/castingpatchwerk

Is sufficient enough

[balmy gate]

hey guys u craft a dagger for raid ? with sparks ?

[barren haven]

Okay, but it could be less dps output if we fully go haste to reach those breakpoint(s) because we are missing mastery / crit … or is this a simtrap and we should make sure to reach those haste numbers always?

[gentle temple]

Did our priorities for small AOE changed with the nerfs?

[vale osprey]

Assuming sim is fixed to account for it, listen to sim ig

[small helm]

I was today years old that I realized how important backstabbing from the back is

[hazy breach]

Its not really that important

[small helm]

like a couple percent different?

[hazy breach]

No

[small helm]

Is that because backstab isn't a big source of damage?

[alpine wraith]

think it hardly cracks 1%

[tribal vortex]

anyone has spec suggestions for each boss ? more like feelcraft rather than data

[umbral fulcrum]

backstab doesn't do much damage in the first place

[tidal salmon]

backstab good only irl

[umbral cliff]

in multi target when apex proccs you do shurikenstorm into blackpower blackpowder or keep doing shurikenstorm into just one blackpowder?

[warm marlin]

no it will never be a simtrap

[vocal pecan]

can acuity of rendorei proc off of main and off hand? my sim is saying i should put on both

[warm marlin]

just try to get more haste gear to comfortably sit there and then enjoy having to buy new gems and enchants every time you get a new piece of gear

the life of 2/3 of the rogue specs

[hazy breach]

Yes, just do both

[vocal pecan]

ok ty!

[rigid marten]

Is it worth to wait to use catalyst for a better piece of gear or use it on champion to get 2 piece? No drops from hero

[polar schooner]

if my nimble furry is lowere in aoe, and have a higher ilvl and 2pc, what exactly am i doing wrong

in comparrison to another rogue

[wanton oxide]

Probably uptime and also make sure you use coup de grâce over black powder, make sure to macro it

[azure thicket]

i think waiting for ancient arts conditions outside of cooldowns is a dps loss fwiw

[solemn lance]

So the apex talent optimization happens infrequently then if it requires a supercharged point to fish for it

[azure thicket]

backstab and shuri were buffed for reasons clones be darned

[wooden mica]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[solemn lance]

You might double ss only after you hit dance.

[wooden mica]

ok so basicly im monky

[polar schooner]

ah you can macro coup into BP?

[solemn lance]

I thought it would happen more often but makes sense why it isnt hugely impactful

[wanton oxide]

Yes and you 100% should do you don’t have to worry about it

[polar schooner]

thank you so much!

[wanton sparrow]

same doubt

[azure thicket]

also just having good keybinds in aoe adds so much dps, 1 for shuri 2 for bp T for sec tec R for shadowstrike

[polar schooner]

thanks man, and i assume uptime is being in melee?

[umbral fulcrum]

yes

[shadow lance]

What's your addon for enchant? It's nice

[wanton oxide]

Yes, because your auto attacks can trigger nimble flurry as well

[polar schooner]

ah, i guess i suck at that part when there are 10 to 12 mobs

[azure thicket]

having sec tec shadow dance for add phase on the double dragon fight will naturally gap just about everyone else on the meter for example

[wanton oxide]

Turn on “enable action targeting” in options-combat

If you’re losing targets in big aoe and aren’t quick to tab or click

[quick oyster]

New to sub this season, played it way back in df. Struggeling to break like 50k overall dps in raids. Is the spec weak or im i dumb?

[fervent leaf]

just to clarify, I'm never using sectech outside of shadowdance right ?

[hazy breach]

The nimble flurry is secondary, the main reason you need to remain in melee and auto attack is that a large portion of all of your energy and combo points come from Shadow Techniques, which only happens when in melee

[pulsar cape]

Is there a way to track The first Dance talent?

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately no

[pure yacht]

Are you guys crafting 272 dagger with your hero crests yet or holding

[hazy breach]

No

[fathom adder]

can i add the names of the abilities coming with the blizzard dbm timeline?

[hazy breach]

If you do that and then next week you craft them with myth crests youve just wasted all of your hero crests

[pure yacht]

Lol that's what I thought

Seen a couple sub rogues in LFR with 272 daggers and I was wonderin'

[hazy breach]

Just storm > bp > bp

[shy flare]

What about champ crests, you think it’s worth it?

[hazy breach]

I mean same thing applies

[hollow raptor]

i was playing the apex talent incorrectly this entire time, ugh

how lame

[hazy breach]

If you dont expect to get any myth crests then go ahead

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hazy breach]

Thats all there is to play around with ti

[hollow raptor]

yeah ik

wait do u only do it for the first 2 points after dance?

or the entire duration of dance

[shy flare]

I’m kinda late to the party and don’t mythic raid, just do keys. I wasn’t sure how valuable the champ crests are right now

[hollow raptor]

send em on whatever, we have m+ next week so champ is no longer relevant

[shy flare]

Ok that was kinda my thinking but none of the endless YouTube videos about crafting I watched even mentioned champ crests, thought I might be missing something

[azure thicket]

plan was to recraft with myth crests, figured having a 272 dagger would make getting to the 10-12 range for myth gear was the play

[thin sluice]

Just a quick question do I need to play heavily into danse macabre or not for st?

[warm marlin]

your precious 80 hero crests go to waste when you myth recraft though

[azure thicket]

heroic raid prog and all that

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[lilac stag]

Dratnos mentioned them twice this week

[azure thicket]

i mean that's 4 upgrades on a piece not in my bags

surely just crumping a 10 is just as valid

[torn tide]

is there a way to get tier sets if i dont do normal/hero raids?

[keen dome]

The catayst is about it. Or vault.

[torn tide]

ahh vault

mine is looking pretty decent rn id say

i have a few on like 256

[azure thicket]

also you can score 30 myth gilded off the ?? boss

253 with that haste ring from heroic voidscar here

[ashen grove]

how much do you sim with ~250gs ST?

[unborn badge]

Is there a bug with Saptors claw simming, Hero Saptors is simming lower than 250ilvl Sapling of the Dawnroot for me?

[cyan saddle]

for damage amp windows in raid, should we hold 2 sd's or just one with SB?

[gusty hull]

Can somebody tell me why emberwing sims like shit for me but is A tier according to Wowhead and blood mallet?

[pure yacht]

probs haste cutoff points

[tulip folio]

real quick

do we go

potent powder instead of weaponmaster on first boss of voidspire

[plush roost]

Depends if u wanna pad or kill the boss faster

[azure thicket]

fwiw dslice preferred crit flask from murder row/patch's crooked hook over puzzle box etc

[tulip folio]

pad

ofc

[gusty hull]

So i need higher base haste on other parts to replace it?

[plush roost]

Then you know the answer

[tulip folio]

https://giphy.com/gifs/hell-yeah-steve-austin-oh-nT7MlvIJRJ68ETf2GU

[azure thicket]

my buddy has their main hand enchanted and they get ahead occasionally etc application matters more in the long run

if you're not fully setup the sim might skew towards weird answers is what i'm saying?

[celest ice]

when we use CD's and 2x dance during blades, we still use only 1 sectech there? like does SecTech dictate when we use dance, im finding out that at some point i dont have dance charges when sectech is up towards the end of the fight

[hazy breach]

On lower ilvl it does not actually give an additional global in dance

[alpine wraith]

yea until like 250

or even a bit more

[gilded jungle]

When I sim with crucible do I change any of the settings when I sim it?

[limber folio]

its just that easy lads

[celest ice]

During second Blades i find it often that i cant do back to back dance, even tho i use dances always with sectech

[limber folio]

its intended

it just be like that

[celest ice]

do i still use 2 dance during 2nd blades?

[fading saffron]

anyone able to give me the run down on why sin looks to be overperforming sub and outlaw according to logs? thought sub was the go to, or is it just a matter of getting tier and breakpoints?

[stoic anchor]

last boss on normal xd

[azure thicket]

adds/bosses dying before ramping does a 180

[karmic harbor]

Are you guys being given tier?

Have not checked a spreadsheet to see dmg buff %

If there is one

[lilac stag]

You need to hold sblades for 10-12 seconds or you need to hold a dance charge before sblades.

[fading saffron]

im a new rogue and havnt touched the class since BFA, so any help/insight would help a ton

[karmic harbor]

Proper planning prevents poor performance

[celest ice]

i dont use dance or sectech if blades is <10sec CD but still

[karmic harbor]

Wowhead

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[karmic harbor]

Glhf

[lilac stag]

No one has gear / tier and we’re reliant on a trinket and 4pc as we have likely the highest return of damage gettin 4pc of all dps

[lilac stag]

If you don’t have a charge in the chamber it won’t matter

[azure thicket]

i got 2 set for being the rogue on our roster for multiple seasons

[vale pine]

nice, gz

[stoic anchor]

ty fuu , i check wowhead very often xd:D

[fading saffron]

gotcha ok - guess its more target dummy practicing and syncing dance and sectec with my haste values - cheers

[manic ivy]

hi guys, is there any "talent by boss" in wowhead?

[karmic harbor]

I've gotten 1 normal tier and we're 2/8 hc

[runic sinew]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[karmic harbor]

Was shocked to be prio for it but I guess it's good for us?

[azure thicket]

ye some prefer to gear tanks and healers first

[karmic harbor]

Who in their right mind is gearing tanks and healers

[zinc wagon]

it is still the same rule after the "nerf"? 2 targets shadowstrike and sb. 3 targets shuriken storm and sb?

[azure thicket]

it makes sense its not like there's a hard enrage this season

[karmic harbor]

[azure thicket]

a lot of people like to touch swirlies

[wispy pebble]

in double dance with blades do we sectec if it comes up during second SD or afterwards with a fresh SD?

[left ledge]

if you can fit the sectec wholly within dance then you use it

[lilac stag]

@vale pine

[left ledge]

is that word right...

wholly

[night sparrow]

Hey guys, is there a reason we don't use a "dry" sectec 10s before 2nd blades, so we send sectec as the first finisher during 2nd dance ?

isn't it like +1% or something, on paper that seems interesting ?

[left ledge]

sometimes that could be optimal but depends on fight length

and casts

so...

[azure thicket]

holding up unseen blade/coup procs if you grief it?

[bleak night]

It is a silly looking word isn't it

[left ledge]

either way you're getting one sectec in blades like that

[hazy breach]

Well you dont get 2 sectechs in blades doing that

[bleak night]

[left ledge]

^

[left ledge]

yer

[night sparrow]

Ha with the tier set that's right I'm dumb

seems okay without it but yeah lol

nvm

[wispy pebble]

ty. feels really weird because dance comes up shorty after again haha

[left ledge]

i think there's some crazy ass haste point in which you can do that too

i forget what though

but nothing worth discussing here

[azure thicket]

tbh feels like im not sending shadowdance more often by accident this season

not sure if keyboard switch is worn out or what

[torn tide]

is it okay to not folow the bis stuff in wowhead even tho i have the gear, cuz it seems to mess up my stats when i change some lol

like i have the ring from magisters but when i change it out with the other ring thsy i have i lose so much haste

[manic ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/quinn-dog-quinn-dog-gif-22355715

[ornate lake]

Shouldn't you be sending sectech only with supercharged combo points?

[left ledge]

preferably yes

[pulsar cape]

the academy box trinket is casted?? wtf and its one of the bis?

[left ledge]

but there are situations where that isnt the case

like when you're dancing twice in blades

[lilac stag]

Nah I asked him to pin a list of talent changes in here since it’s minimal.

[ornate lake]

We do dance twice in the blades?

[left ledge]

oh boy

do you have tier

[ornate lake]

That sims better than everything for me lmao, except raid trinkets

[ornate lake]

No

What happened?

[left ledge]

ok, just dance twice in blades if you can afford to dance a third time after for sectec

otherwise dont

[lilac stag]

Didn’t this conversation just happen? Hahahah

[left ledge]

yes

same with the dance one

[lilac stag]

let’s see if it lands this time

[left ledge]

but it is what it is

our cds are extremely unintuitive right now

probably the most jank our cds have ever been

[lilac stag]

imagine dust with people looking for an easy just spam BP spec

[hard trellis]

rogue so ass gg

[wispy pebble]

second dance in second SD makes after SB even more boring lmao

[ornate lake]

Is there a list of rotational changes when we get the Tier set?

[hazy breach]

Yes here it is:

[vale pine]

no change of rotation from tier

[night sparrow]

You guys say that it's better to talk haste numbers instead of %, but what if I'm 18% with the nightelf passiv ? (+1% haste during the night)

[hazy breach]

the nelf passive is irrelevant for the dance breakpoints

It does not affect deepening shadows

[night sparrow]

alright thx!

[hazy breach]

Only haste rating does

[sharp shuttle]

where can i check whats best to gear? guides ive been seeing say diff stuff

[hazy breach]

Get the highest ilvl possible

+get the tier set bonus

[latent remnant]

Huh why does this delve trinket sim so much higher (all at 6/6 champ)

[dusky mountain]

18% haste is the goal right? Im at 15%, but sims keeps telling me to go crit on everything. Trusting sims, but I thought I wanted to get to 18% first.

[graceful rock]

What ever gets you like 670 haste

[smoky bough]

How do I treat trinkets that have haste proccs? Do I still want to get to 18% and overcap on procc or do I calculate the bonus?

[swift tinsel]

you can't guarantee you'll have the proc up when you press dance

so best not to rely on it for breakpoint gearing

I wonder if even one person brought up how fucking dumb breakpoints are when this was pitched

[lilac stag]

you don’t have tier. You don’t have trinket. Your ilvl is low. Any combination of that will change the expected outcome. Welcome to the start of the season.

[west tide]

4 piece acquired boys

no splits needed

just god and pvp

[summer gate]

is it "bad" to be over the 18% haste or 670~ ? or is it just less desirable

[west tide]

u want more

[stuck arrow]

Does the pvp 4pc work for the achievement?

[west tide]

mm idk

i just got 2 pieces from raid and i have 2 cata charges

cause i just hit 1600

[swift tinsel]

did you get the feat of strength

[west tide]

yarr

[stuck arrow]

Ah. Makes sense.

[swift tinsel]

ah nvm

[lilac stag]

Which pvp did you do for 1600

[west tide]

solo shuffle

[swift tinsel]

was pvp for the charge not a pvp piece

[lilac stag]

pvp is for the charge

[swift tinsel]

gamerrrrr

[west tide]

it was like 6 shuffles

not bad

i didnt lose less than 3 and most my games were 4-5 one 6

[swift tinsel]

I do not enjoy pvp even one iota so I'm just gonna get the ksm one

[stuck arrow]

36 rounds not bad. You have full pvp gear. Or just climb off the back of 1 shotting kids because sub is sub in pvp? 😂

[west tide]

i have full pvp

its not one shotty tbh the last few solo shuffle were grinds

like just lots of healing

[mental kettle]

is the fight build recommendation out of date on wowhead?

[stuck arrow]

Yeah that's what I was worried about - elo too compressed due to reset. Lots of actual good pvp players around.

Unlucky.

[west tide]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spice crag]

with raid finder token + catalyst, is it worth sending now for 2pc even if lower ilvl?

[lilac stag]

it's never worth unless you can guarntee 4pc

[stuck arrow]

I think depends on if you've got raid still this week. Otherwise hold.

[spice crag]

still have raid

[stuck arrow]

You do get another catalyst next week.

If you can get the M+ done iirc.

[spice crag]

can't you get pvp catalyst somehow?

[lilac stag]

and if vault or raid drops what he cata's now it's a waste

[swift tinsel]

^^

[west tide]

only send if u have 2 charges and 2 pieces tbh

[stuck arrow]

That's true.

[spice crag]

icic ty guys, not too too familiar with retail gearing strats lmao

[stuck arrow]

Ok you changed my mind. Don't do it. 😂

[west tide]

i think i get extra cata drops now or no?

[swift tinsel]

yep

[west tide]

we up

[swift tinsel]

said it was character-bound but people reporting its warband-wide

[spice crag]

is there a magic mastery breakpoint after 700 haste where you want crit instead lol

[west tide]

crit and mastery are both goodge

[lilac stag]

worry about it after you have tier

for now just get haste and ilvl

[stuck arrow]

Crit is better ST. Mastery better AoE. They both good.

[spice crag]

was in an internal debate between choosing my neck before i slam an 18k gem

[lilac stag]

if it's raid drops get crit/mastery

[charred horizon]

anyone know of a simple addon that can count how many mobs are within melee range? or does blizz not want that

[azure thicket]

my hero academia chest is crit vers though

it scares me

[stuck arrow]

I've been looking for one of these too.

[spice crag]

there used to be a weakaura for it but that's gone, probably not a way to do it now

[charred horizon]

yea 🙁 i had a friend make me a really simple minimal one

[humble jolt]

I really miss that WA

[stuck arrow]

Particularly with how visually cluttered this raid is. Blue on blue on blue.

[charred horizon]

well if anyone knows of something pls tag or dm 🙂

[stuck arrow]

Lots of big AoE particle effects flying through the air.

[humble jolt]

+1

[stuck arrow]

Lots of stupid little blob adds.

[azure thicket]

that and the refund noise weak aura were great

[charred horizon]

when the RL tags something while explaining the fight lol

like what

i did not see that sir

can you use an alert pls

[azure thicket]

didn't lose awareness looking at combo point bar

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[patent iris]

Hi everyone I am currently 236 ilvl and I am doing very low dps - like according to sim I am supposed to do 50k dps but I do very much less than that

Any tips?

[charred horizon]

hard to give tips when we arent sure what ur doing wrong, whats the opener/rotation like

do you have shadow dance/blades and ST macroed

also haste is a big implier

[echo dirge]

whats the % increase for 2 set and 4 set?

[patent iris]

I've got 17% haste atm

[west tide]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[west tide]

!breakpoint

[charred horizon]

that sounds pretty good

[west tide]

noo u need more

685+

[charred horizon]

i thought it was 600ds/700trickster

ok my b i guess i assumed it was more

[west tide]

700 i think u want i aim for 700

[azure thicket]

looked at our lightblinded vanguard kill and ye if you're under haste cap by a lot you lose sec tec casts

make sure you're using the aoe rotation correctly

[west tide]

so what does 4se let me do

whats the tea

[azure thicket]

chum was haste cap and got 6 more sec tec casts than me

[spice crag]

raidbot sims me at 253ilvl at 58k dps, does that sound right.. seems low af

[west tide]

that sounds about right without weapon enchants etc

[spice crag]

that's with weapon enchants

and it doesn't seem to be casting puzzle box

[azure thicket]

depends, details doesn't show overall for a dungeon anymore unless im doing it wrong

i've hit over 200k with puzzle box blades 18% haste on some big pulls today for sure

[patent iris]

My main opener is stealth obvs - Shadowstrike, into Blades, dance to get charged cp and the ST - and keep spamming strike evis

[azure thicket]

it probably goes higher if other people in the party aren't also liquefying the pack in question etc

[mossy zinc]

guys what do we do during downtime, do we save technique stacks

[hazy breach]

You can not finish a couple of seconds before you intend to dance

But mostly you just hit them with your wet noodles

[charred horizon]

should be more like shadowstrike to 6/7cp, pop macro for ST/dance/blades, go into strike evis

when the first dance wears off, go into another one and use the blades

[spice crag]

is there a way to change flask/food buff on raidbot?

[near hemlock]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[west tide]

yeah at the bottom

lil dropdown

[hazy breach]

Youre unlikely to want to change the food as 50 agi is the best, but yes at the bottom

[spice crag]

Not really seeing it. Is it post sim or pre sim?

[spice crag]

Got it, thank you!!!

[near hemlock]

is this why lust on pull makes shadow dance an Secret tech not sync right?

Secret tech ends up coming up before Shadown dance

[wet atlas]

hmm should I upgrade my crafted dagger from 259 to 272 already? does this make sense?

[hazy breach]

Not if you intend on ever recrafting it with mythic crests

Since then those heroic crests are just wasted

[charred horizon]

it could go in the offhand if you get a myth track main hand

i was gonna do that tbh

[spice crag]

Only choice is really between mastery and crit flasks yeah?

[tropic field]

can anyone please explain to me why we pick the first dance talent?

[hazy breach]

Longer dance good

[hazy breach]

Haste is fine too if you need it

[tropic field]

but it says out of combat?

[wet atlas]

you did it already?

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah in keys its good.

raid it can be on short kills

[hazy breach]

Yes and you are out of combat atleast after every boss, but most of the time you get it more than that

[charred horizon]

not yet

[tropic field]

oh it works that way

[hazy breach]

Obviously for keys, not for raid

[tropic field]

thanks guys

[wet atlas]

i mean i have enough crests

[spice crag]

I'm at 690 haste

[small vortex]

if i ever have sblades up with 1 charge of dance and sectec ready but my 2nd dance it like 15-18s out do i just sit until my 2nd dance is useable after first dance ends?

[spice crag]

699 if I swap a gem lmao

[hazy breach]

Youre likely to just recraft it next week anyway with mythic crests right

And then youve just tossed 80 heroic crests into the void

[wet atlas]

yeah thats true

[shrewd lantern]

you probably make myth version if you dont get vorasius weapon

first week of mythic

[west tide]

so how come droptimizer is all weird with gear sometimes

like itll tell me an item in my bags that i have from that dungeon same ilevel is not an uppie and then if i top gear it its an uppie

[warm marlin]

bricks your haste threshold probably

[shrewd lantern]

yeah thats why droptimizer is fucking cursed

tbh

[warm marlin]

you cant droptimizer as sub this tier

gotta top gear everything

[shrewd lantern]

every lootcouncil nags you about one

though

[hazy breach]

Thanks blizzard for this great addition

[warm marlin]

so good on outlaw we just had to run it back

[shrewd lantern]

give it to sin now

complete the trinity

i feel so many new things for sub

[hazy breach]

Sin can have a little crit cap, as a treat

[shrewd lantern]

are just outlaw rehashes

[polar wharf]

Guys how does sub perform in raid atm, are we breaking at least top third of the dps?

[swift tinsel]

www.warcraftlogs.com

[shrewd lantern]

depends how many casters

are in your raid

we are very good || padders || on dragons

[azure thicket]

it's fine

netherprism doesn't exist in midnight

[shrewd lantern]

netherprism was good

goat trinket

[primal elbow]

Trickster Sub: Do we ensure targets are Fazed before ripping cd's? Like do we hold a dance/ST until we can proc Fazed if it isn't already active?

[shrewd lantern]

fazed just triggers auto

[primal elbow]

The SecTecch apply counts before dam so we're not missing anything from sending on cd?

[swift tinsel]

sectech applies it

[azure thicket]

43rd best dawnbreaker run in na and oce agrees

[shrewd lantern]

43rd what

the overhyped trinket was forge

[azure thicket]

leaderboard that raider io aggregates all dawnbreaker runs from listed it as 43rd

[shrewd lantern]

didnt everyone run prism

[azure thicket]

im jus waving my salami yeah everyone did

[shrewd lantern]

it only matters if you were gapping the other 2 dps

let's be real

[azure thicket]

but the point is the difference between goat trinkets and not goat trinkets

[tropic field]

the very rare neck from cosmos, how good is it for us?

[azure thicket]

or enchants...or something

[shrewd lantern]

you dont just get

mythic prism first month?

[warm marlin]

very strong!

[shrewd lantern]

thats some casual talk

[patent iris]

Not gonna lie my low numbers are really making me depressed..

[shrewd lantern]

its a neck with good stats

and a free damage proc

we like free damage

[warm marlin]

a well tuned damage proc

[shrewd lantern]

ngl even if it was 0.5% of your damage

people would yap nonstop

about "bis"

[warm marlin]

0.5 is well tuned

that thing is 0.7

[tropic field]

is it black powder that only deal shadow dmg?

[shrewd lantern]

idk im more dreading getting it

[hazy breach]

No, but roughly half of our damage is shadow

[swift tinsel]

BP is phys

[shrewd lantern]

because so many specs like haste

i imagine on st you want double nexus point rings too

for extra free damage

[heady garden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

unless that set bonus is giga piss

[shrewd lantern]

study up more hit the dummies more

[dire ravine]

Does that crucible of erratic energies have anything special to it in sims?

Like say that, over vessel

[stuck arrow]

Don't matter, give it to the fury warrior that doesn't deal shadow damage for the haste. 👀

[shrewd lantern]

It has 3 things checkmarked

that you should have unless you afked

[patent iris]

WELL my second wep is still adventurer tier and I am doing HC raid

[shrewd lantern]

offhand barely matters

i went into hc with 237 gloves

[pulsar hemlock]

What ilvl are most of you clearing ?? boss with

[dire ravine]

hm?

[pulsar hemlock]

Is it doable without 2pc

[gilded kestrel]

Hi chat, is the proper way to go into dance is with full combo so you can macro sectec together or can you go with no combo, ss then sectec manually? Thanks in advance

[pulsar hemlock]

Better to start with ponts to sectec

[stuck arrow]

Depends on DS or Trickster

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[gilded kestrel]

Trickster

[shrewd lantern]

there are some settings for the trinket

if you did the zone buff stuff

to make it 20s

[mental kettle]

are we still doing BP on 2+ targets as per the wowhead guide? Idk if it was updated for the BP nerf

and I see on WCL that everyone is running trickster on every boss, is that just for HC or is DS dead?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[spare oar]

Blackpowder or Eviscerate on 2 targets?

[shrewd lantern]

bruh

[solar ingot]

😂😂😂😂

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[spare oar]

Hahaha

sorry

[mental kettle]

timing XD

[shrewd lantern]

#subtlety-faq

[lilac stag]

[solar ingot]

Should be able to put a banner on a disc page with that link

So it’s always visible

[tribal vortex]

Can i start a log channel ?and if someone has time can help me

[lilac stag]

And people would still ignore it

[lilac stag]

Use !log

[tribal vortex]

!log

[heady garden]

is 2nd sectech always delayed 5 seconds for 3rd dance? It's always unaligned by 5 seconds on pull when using 2x dances in blades

[shrewd lantern]

If you are super down bad, you can always get a veteran dagger from bloody tokens

[oak maple]

anyone know why haste is simming as my highest value stat when i'm at 701 haste rating?

[shrewd lantern]

dont sim weights

[oak maple]

i'm night elf if that matters

[west tide]

i cant stop simmin weights

i love lookin at it

[oak maple]

in that case what's the sweet spot of haste rating? i saw 620-700 or so earlier

[shrewd lantern]

ask topgear

[oak maple]

top gear puts me to 17%

[west tide]

the robot wont reccomend what we reccomend due to the robot being able to execute it at 0.01 everytime

so just adjust some pieces

more haste!

[azure thicket]

700 haste is a lot i think i'm under 650 for 18%

[west tide]

or u can use a haste flask i suppose

[shrewd lantern]

or a few gems

flask is the easiest prob

[wheat edge]

Haste weapon enchant and gamba

[lunar forum]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[shrewd lantern]

double haste proc

https://tenor.com/view/lets-go-gambling-gif-3937562841362806777

[shrewd lantern]

im using a mastery proc trinket rn

i cant control when its up but it averages 25-30% uptime

[vocal pecan]

Is nullaeus doable on ?? Difficulty with sub rogue rn?

[shrewd lantern]

and if i get 300 mastery during my cds its cool

[hushed pendant]

Question for whoever wants to lend a hand: My sims are telling me to drop below the 18% haste break. Trap or follow the robot? Thoughts?

[stuck arrow]

It's doable.

I'd argue not worth it. Grab a group. 😂

[shrewd lantern]

you have to rez valeera instantly or

she claps your cheeks

[vocal pecan]

Gotcha thanks

[shrewd lantern]

hof closed so theres not even epeen flex anymore

[stuck arrow]

I'd say give it a bunch of pulls if hof was open still.

[alpine wraith]

4 set acquired if i do pvp this week

[azure thicket]

ye it's fun to solo but not something worth farming

[wheat edge]

Doing my m0 worldtour with 4p and at 255 ilvl today was very cool also 🙂

[shrewd lantern]

what the helly

[azure thicket]

min max it for the one time

[wheat edge]

I did 9 hours of solo shuffle to get 1600 today, highly recommend doing it!

[shrewd lantern]

how long of that was in q

[wheat edge]

Probably 4 hours

[shrewd lantern]

[wheat edge]

But it was also during my workday so

[west tide]

i cant believe i got 1600 in 6 shuffles

[azure thicket]

ye saturday not looking forward to giving gold to the crafting wizoob for pvps

[alpine wraith]

bg blitz should be faster

[shrewd lantern]

must be nice mr remote "worker"

[wheat edge]

Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, thats why I shuffle on company time

[west tide]

i woke up so early i was like dude im gonna lose every game gonna take me 8hrs

[shrewd lantern]

nah shuffle is faster

unless you cant win rounds

[alpine wraith]

not if you are washed up like me

[shrewd lantern]

im like 2500 mmr

[wheat edge]

I kinda wanna get into pvp also so had a blast to be fair

[shrewd lantern]

which typically carries over

unless they did reset with new expac

[wicked urchin]

im juiced

[shrewd lantern]

double mm lobbies were peak comedy

30s round

[west tide]

juiced but u have that rp trinket

[azure thicket]

guidon is worth two rp trinkets

[west tide]

thats true

[shrewd lantern]

now play a better race /s

[west tide]

i have the friggin 2set rings i wonder if its good i gotta sim

[alpine wraith]

they were not super bad

[west tide]

don tlook at my ring enchants bro i need haste

[hazy breach]

2 set from rings is solid for ST

[shrewd lantern]

its like almost half a %

on st

iirc

so it does more than wax

[azure thicket]

adventurer ring with the 120 haste

[gentle temple]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wheat edge]

Feeling kinda juiced

[shrewd lantern]

im wearing pants

[wheat edge]

Is the vessel annoying, got it just before I logged out so havent played with it yet

[shrewd lantern]

you need to use your eyes

and you know people with antenna so

[wheat edge]

Ah hell nah

[shrewd lantern]

this one's worse

[west tide]

wait i found haste on my wrists i can do some eagle enchants now

this is what raidbots took from us bro

#feelcraft

[dire ravine]

I have them, Im just unsure if the trinket + 4 nodes is better than the vessel

[west tide]

the vessel assumes i thin having 4 stacks the whole time in the sim

[shrewd lantern]

idk if you need to ask this

wouldnt trust you pick up the orbs

but thats just me

[west tide]

its way hard to see those orbs compared to previous type of trinkets like that

[dire ravine]

How does that even correlate lol

[west tide]

use it and log a fight and u will see u barely maintain stacks

[hazy breach]

Not necessarily 4 all the time, but on average the stack count it has is 4

[wheat edge]

I already know I am getting a myth puzzlebox from first m+ vault and going back to assa

[west tide]

i just want guidon

[patent iris]

In the raid environment - should I be sticking to trickter or deathstalker?

[west tide]

wait so with a haste trinket do u even need to hit 18-20% if in ur cds u will be forsure over that

with a haste on use

[shrewd lantern]

looked at the stock market today.

Made a mistake and it was psychic link tuning graph.

[swift tinsel]

yea don't do that

[hazy breach]

The on-use gives you one additional gcd

[dim stream]

what is our set slots?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter, just getting tier asap is the most important

But the bis profile does not have legs

[dim stream]

thx

[tulip light]

is there any way to de-clutter all the visuals in the raid? so hard to see anything

[dawn heron]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[grim vessel]

anyone bash the ?? nemesis as sub?

[azure mauve]

ye

a lot of us here did

[graceful osprey]

What’s the title for the ?? Nemesis?

[swift tinsel]

the Ominous

[azure mauve]

fabled vanquisher

[swift tinsel]

fabled vanquisher is only for the 4000 feat

[ripe flame]

That's a lot of feet

[swift tinsel]

if they've all got Xalatoes I won't complain

[fleet acorn]

loot looking so far so good - 3 bosses hc down and full normal (2set + 1 catalyst charge free)

[shrewd lantern]

fabled unemployment

[snow bone]

i feel like sims are off cause its telling me my 250 kroluk's warbanner is better than 263 heart of wind?

[coarse thunder]

Hey everyone! I’ve just come back to the game after a few years away, and I’m looking to get into PvP again.

I’m especially interested in playing RBGs and Solo Shuffle as a Subtlety Rogue. I was wondering if there are any up-to-date resources, guides, or tips on how to approach each battleground/map as a Sub Rogue.

Any advice or direction would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[azure mauve]

#pvp

[swift tinsel]

got mine after work

[azure mauve]

me too

[shrewd lantern]

its more talking about the people who got it when valeera was op

[azure mauve]

had to stay up late though

[night sparrow]

Dh tank ahead of us on council HM

[shrewd lantern]

i.e during work hours

[azure mauve]

not good for the sleep schedule

[night sparrow]

like bruh

[hazy breach]

Heart of wind is not particularly good, while the banner benefits from find weakness so it does 17% more damage for sub than other specs

[shrewd lantern]

paladins is likely an outlaw or sin angle

or bench

[west tide]

im bringin the mage

[alpine wraith]

dont worry i did like almost 80k but no 4 set yet

[fleet acorn]

y i figured that myself i didnnt black powder xd

[alpine wraith]

now we are on last boss jail

she has hands

and feet

and more hands

[night sparrow]

I did :<

[fleet acorn]

thats my dmg pure st xd

[alpine wraith]

we do black powder on pala boss tho

[wispy pebble]

Sub 4 times the log count that assa has. Gotta swap to assa to keep playing the low pop spec now ig

[fleet acorn]

gonna try that next week i was st spec xd

[night sparrow]

ha fuck me lol was st spec also

gaming

palas hm boring af btw

[fervent plover]

why is subtlety so low in tier lists?

i feel like sub's dmg is very very good

[chrome palm]

every fight is cleave

rogue as a class cannot cleave at low targets

[vale pine]

it got nerfed in cleave damage, and the raid has a lot of cleave

[shrewd lantern]

put evis back on nimble

[wispy pebble]

Give back tww trickster!

[shrewd lantern]

I cant imagine the dumb questions

[near echo]

So is outlaw the way to go now? Or is sub still superior

[shrewd lantern]

people still ask bp or evis with midnight sub

[night sparrow]

does the 2p apply to supercharged/coup de grace ?

[chrome palm]

outlaw also does not cleave well

[fleet acorn]

1 target evic - 2 or more bp

[vale pine]

i don't think there is that much diffrence between the 3

[fervent plover]

how is it looking pure m+ wise?

[shrewd lantern]

if you play m+ to pug expect to reroll every tier

[near echo]

Gotchu so basically preference then I already crafted my dagger so i might as well stick it out to sub and hope and pray we get some kinda changes in class tuning

[vale pine]

we wait to see changes for next week

[shrewd lantern]

because you hate yourself enough to pug

[fervent plover]

thats fine, im not a rogue player, i just recently started playing sub cus its the only rogue spec i like

so next tiers i just go other class

but dmg so far looking very very good

[short moss]

yo how are you guys playing vanguard? I just played that boss so bad... Are we powdering or basically just ST ?

[shrewd lantern]

you just turn off details

[night sparrow]

^

[wispy pebble]

kekw

[night sparrow]

if you don't see your damage, then you're not the last on details

[shrewd lantern]

I beat some people and the tank || the dps were dead ||

[fleet acorn]

damn im gapping people

[stuck arrow]

Only reason to bring sub on paladins is if half the DPS in your raid to dumb to hit shields. 😂

[shrewd lantern]

is that the dragon duo

[fleet acorn]

y

[shrewd lantern]

yeah

very good boss

[night sparrow]

Kill the boss ? Nope
Delay CDs to burst 30k hp adds ? f yeah

[patent iris]

Soo - I just did quick sim and it says I am supposed to do roughly 47k dps - should that be considered my margin ?

[dull fractal]

Heyoo I've been out of the loop for crafting. Are we crafting the dagger with hero crest? or just normal craft?

[tepid trellis]

no crest

just spark

and then recraft it with mythic crests

next week

[stuck arrow]

You get mythic crests next week from M+ plus a handful from quests. So we wait.

[alpine wraith]

dont use crests

next week you use mythic ones

[dull fractal]

gotcha guys

[fair monolith]

so im using shuriken storm with SD if im deathstalker everytime correct?

[dire ravine]

Can I get some macro assist?
My macro will not use my pot

#showtooltip
/Cast Shadow Blades
/Cast Light's Potential
/use 13

[fair monolith]

new to sub

[alpine wraith]

for pots it is use

[wispy pebble]

use for items

[alpine wraith]

not cast

[tepid trellis]

/use lights

[near echo]

Use for item

[dire ravine]

ope

[merry agate]

first raid night bois
holy fuck we are really incredibly mid 😂

didnt want to believe it 😭

[wispy pebble]

Is there even any boss where DS is better atm?

[dire ravine]

Thank yall

[wispy pebble]

is it confirmed that there will be any changes?

[shrewd lantern]

no

[fleet acorn]

do i send my 2nd sectech in lust ? as 3rd finisher?

[wispy pebble]

so we cope? 😄

[fallow rampart]

guys if we have cd dance like 5 sec do we hold Secret Technique?

[merry agate]

adapt improvise overcome. the sub rog way of life 👍 everything will be fine 😮

[shrewd lantern]

idk bench gives me more free time to irl

so i dont mind other way

[dreamy jewel]

maybe if i ask here ill get an answer: is sub easy now

since assa seems dookie

[wispy pebble]

kinda

[pulsar cape]

very anoyed at blizz on the first dance not beeing able to track

[vale pine]

think we get 4 weeks of tuning changes in a row

[wispy pebble]

spec itself is kinda dumb but the apex stuff can feel weird

[vale pine]

so its expected, i don't know if anything was announced so far

[shrewd lantern]

didnt shut down the discord so no nerf revert

[wispy pebble]

hell yea lets shut it down!

[stuck arrow]

I mean....

[raven maple]

Is having Algeth'ar Puzzle Box and Emberwing Feather bad for a double on use trink? Sims seem to not always be accurate with this question

[wispy pebble]

99% is quite sub favored though

[stuck arrow]

Not enough that it's worth switching specs, lol.

All 3 are kinda doodoo together.

[tepid trellis]

sub sucks we need emergency buffs NOW

[shrewd lantern]

should be favored for all specs

[near echo]

I meannnnn they all look very close to each other unless your a pro performing at the top .1% I think if you know what your doing you can be good with any class/spec

[dawn cargo]

would yall recommend sub as the best spec overall for Raiding, Delves, Mythic+ or are yall switching between specs depending on the content?

[lucid jackal]

Sub bad

[wispy pebble]

delves are whatever. Raid we all suck. M+ we dont know yet

[small vortex]

if i have 1 dance charge and am like 15s from a second dance going into sblades do i hold till i can b2b dance in blades?

[night sparrow]

On palas boss, I did more or less dmg compared to dh tank. Does that answer ur question ?

[near echo]

To much work doing all that pick one you like and stick with it I say

[stuck arrow]

I think part of it is the raid is really bad for sub, TBH.

Lots of small target cleave. Awful timers for sub.

[tepid trellis]

only bosses that matter are the last ones

[pulsar cipher]

@vale pine sorry for the ping king, subtlety rogue rotation pre combat check still recommends ironclaw whetstone

[wispy pebble]

Do we have sims of T4 compared to the other specs? Or will we see in logs next week?

[tepid trellis]

sub looks aite on alleria and chimeraus timer wise atleast