subtlety

[steep raven]

It actually doesn't double dance on pull

[vagrant fulcrum]

if you only ever dance with sectec

[left ledge]

you can still double sectec in blades WITH LUST

and you are hopefully lusting

so you will never have an excess dance

[hallow matrix]

99% of the time you lust pull, so you blades double dance and double sectec i guess - but the 1:30 blades its only one dance?

[vagrant fulcrum]

alright, pause for a second

[left ledge]

and you still aim to dance at the tail end of blades (to ready for sectec)

[pure yacht]

Your haste changes everything. There's trinkets with on use haste, there's buffs, there's lust.. etc.

Haste reduces the cooldown of SecTech and increases the duration of your Shadow Dance so it really depends. Right now with lust I can get SecTech down to like a 15s CD. That barely fits into the 16s of blades pre-4pc.

[vagrant fulcrum]

what about in situations with any kind of downtime

[left ledge]

its like 1.2 dances

guys please

this is overcomplicating it

[radiant swift]

ehy are u guys doing all this extra

[left ledge]

just do not dance without sectec

if you cant sectec in the dance

do not dance

[steel wyvern]

I’m reliably getting 2nd sectech off on the tail end of my 2nd dance and blades during lust rn

[vagrant fulcrum]

• I still think this optimisation has clear room to hold blades for dances, not the reverse - since unless you'd lose a blades cast I'm pretty confident you would just hold blades

[radiant swift]

u legit have within 5 sec dance + stec when double dance with blades with no lust

[left ledge]

you DO hold blades for dance

well

for sectec

[inner prairie]

Its just a tight fit right now, with 4pc it becomes easier.

[left ledge]

but yeah

[vagrant fulcrum]

@vale pine sorry to ping, can we get crystal clear rules on this?

[left ledge]

the 4pc will make you able to double dance double sectec every time

[vagrant fulcrum]

the 2x dance vs 1x dance blades in vs out of lust

and yes, clarify the pre-tierset gameplay, Im learning i've been playing wrong this entire time

there we go, fuu will make a command or pin or something

[radiant swift]

but u dont lise anything sending 2 dances without lust?

[left ledge]

if you try to fit your second dance all in blades

[vagrant fulcrum]

you do, longterm

[radiant swift]

first dance u sent is coming back up

[left ledge]

you wont have dance for sectec

so you end up holding sectec for 20 seconds

thats pretty bad

[radiant swift]

what exactly

[vagrant fulcrum]

we get 1 extra dance in the entire fight

we double dance in lust

so any other double dances would theoretically lose you a sectec

[pure yacht]

If you check lorrgs there are two kinds of people right now:

1.) Those who double dance their blades opener and only get one secret technique in blades then use the second sectech when their 3rd dance comes up.

2.)Those who slightly hold their 2nd dance inside blades to get the 2nd secret technique in the dance window.

[stable marlin]

This has been enlightening, I’ve been dancing back to back every shadow blades and thinking it felt awful to have to wait for dance to come back up to secret mode

[vale pine]

You usually use it 2 times during lust if possible

[vagrant fulcrum]

idk tbh with you, i've been doing m0s and world shit, not real content

[steel wyvern]

The best thing about extended blades is that you reliably get the second sectech supercharged

[hallow matrix]

okay fine but is this supercharged sectec only?

[radiant swift]

u dont? u sent a dance with blades and it comes up again no?

the very first u sent

[left ledge]

right now without tier no

[radiant swift]

its not perfect in sync

[left ledge]

you will have a non charged sectec sadly unless you want to completely miss blades for the second dance

[warped ferry]

This is probably a dumb question, I know the cadence is two dances in cds and two out, but that means there’s lot of cd left for blades, so is there a world we’re allowed to throw in a natty sectech without dance so it’s up right before blades?

[radiant swift]

but within like 4-5sec?

[left ledge]

but i dont know if thats worth or not tbh

[steep raven]

2 times back to back or hold 2nd dance for 2nd sectec for supercharge?

[open coyote]

what i'm wondering is what the difference between the two ends up being and when what is better (if it's situational)

[steep raven]

With tier*

[vagrant fulcrum]

lowkey

[steel wyvern]

Always pair dance with sectech

[vagrant fulcrum]

this is just sin in raid angle, no cringe timing bs

[radiant swift]

how ? stec is with the second dance u sent at the beginning of blades no?

[left ledge]

again this is like

overcomplicating the spec

by so much

you literally just need to dance for sectec

[spiral pewter]

guyz today kalvish have showed an extreme apex talent proc at twitch but havent been sort out %100 , anyone there to shortly explain?

[left ledge]

holding dance and sectec for blades works but without tier you will NOT be sending a naked dance without sectec in your blades anyways

blades no tier is 16 sec

[steep raven]

@left ledge Look at this sample. Look at pull with lust and 1.5m
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3kaPnwHgJEmyTiyfd9hhjB

[modest snow]

do you need to max the console for the crucible for m+/raid?

[left ledge]

you have 4p

ive said no tier a bunch of times

[modest snow]

or is it just the first node in the tree or none at all

[hazy lichen]

yo

whats the difference between a 8 delve and 11

[alpine wraith]

why would you not max the console

are you against machines or something

[swift tinsel]

I tend to rage against them personally

[swift tinsel]

more crests but notable slower/more difficult

not really worth until you unlocked myth crests

[hazy lichen]

what crests does 11 give

[swift tinsel]

hero

[granite river]

is this new, why not sending a second dance in blades

[left ledge]

[hazy lichen]

is there a spreadsheet

[queen pelican]

It wont give mythic unless you are rank 4

[vale pine]

Back to back

[olive remnant]

one last thing 😄 do i always hold to supercharge sectec or just fit it into dance?

[hazy lichen]

rank 4 what

[queen pelican]

Delvers journey

[spiral pewter]

guyz today kalvish have showed an extreme apex talent proc at twitch but havent been sort out %100 , anyone there to shortly explain? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ2Pv2RoQhU

[hazy lichen]

ty

Wait wtf im only rank 1 with delves

[left ledge]

the current non tier APL seems to care more about just fitting it in

[hazy lichen]

how are u supposed to be 4

[swift tinsel]

bountiful farming

[olive remnant]

ok perfekt ty

[queen pelican]

By doing a fuck ton of bountiful delves

[swift tinsel]

you get 150 per bountiful finish, 200 more if you open a bountiful chest

then weekly quest for 1.5k rep

once per warband

iirc

[queen pelican]

Lots of alts

[hazy lichen]

wow thats super sweaty

[swift tinsel]

its actually not that bad to farm

I'm at level 2.5 after 4x bountiful on 2 toons

[queen pelican]

Wouldnt worry to much there is a hardcap on mythic crests from delves

[lean sigil]

So guide in FAQ is wrong, its sais cast dance when seq is ready OR blades is up?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

its just a for-fun thing for me

[left ledge]

nooooooooo, the guide is correct

[swift tinsel]

trying to unlock it so I can get a myth track dagger very early on tuesday

[left ledge]

you dance for sectec, blades in dance

he was talking about DURING LUST

in which you can safely fit two back to back dances with sectecs

[hazy lichen]

so rn is it only worth to do rank 8 delve for bountiful

[swift tinsel]

yep

[hazy lichen]

or should i try doing 11

[vale pine]

Yes

[paper spear]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[swift tinsel]

I wouldnt' worry about doing 11's for hero crests bc you'll get a bunch next week when you actually have more hero track gear

the ilvl for the gear is exactly the same from +8 to +11 delves from bountiful chests

[left ledge]

are you saying yes as in the guide is wrong or yes to dancing with sectec, even im confused now

[swift tinsel]

and once you get myth crests unlocked you're only really doing 3x 11's per week if you aren't capping myth crests from m+

[lean sigil]

So we only follow guide during lust, rest of the blades casts will be one dance one lust?

[swift tinsel]

one dance per blades is a very disappointing gameplay loop ngl

[left ledge]

look all these conditional shit statements has this guy typing lust instead of sectec, we are doomed

[left ledge]

its not

its just because we're tierless

[shy scarab]

HuuuH we not popping x2 dances during blades anymore?

Gooned specc

[vale pine]

Guides are correct

[crystal bone]

that's it, time to play sin

[left ledge]

ok thank god

[shy scarab]

Time to reroll deva evoker

[lean sigil]

Now I’m very confused

[shy scarab]

Me too

[vale pine]

I am not on pc rn, but i can clarify once i am later

[shy scarab]

Explain plz @lean sigil

[lean sigil]

Its easy, do we dance 2x every dance or just 2x dance with lust

[left ledge]

ngl what you said is not easy

im not sure what term is what anymore

[shy scarab]

Hahaha what

[reef walrus]

the bug he's talking about seems expected behaviour, or am I missing something here?

[crystal bone]

yes dance for every dance

[serene tapir]

I thought i knew the spec but not anymore

[crystal bone]

[left ledge]

guys again

[lean sigil]

Well do we dance 2 times every blades? Or just when lust is up

[cold citrus]

https://giphy.com/gifs/joker-dancing-jesters-jester-entertaining-Jcw7dQbWzVt9ZZhXYu

[left ledge]

here's the simplest way to go about your day

sectec up? dance!

[shy scarab]

This one plz

[left ledge]

blades up? dance!

[shy scarab]

How many

[lean sigil]

Ok, then we miss one sec tec

[left ledge]

i said it once!

[shy scarab]

2 or 1 @left ledge

[lean sigil]

If no lust

[shy scarab]

LooooL

[lean sigil]

Thats how i play now

[shy scarab]

Fuck this im rerolling

Gooned spec

Devoker inc

[left ledge]

lets say i have blades at 1:30 and i am a tierless chud

i dance and send sectec

now my dance is over

i will be waiting to make sure my next dance can also fit a sectec in it

[shy scarab]

Well yea thats the play if we dont force x2 dances

[left ledge]

NO LUST

[shy scarab]

Eith blades up

[left ledge]

actually fk this hasted shit man

[chrome palm]

trickster = 2 ds = 1

[shy scarab]

Just fk the game too

[left ledge]

i have to say NO TIER NO LUST every time i try to explain this for the 1 week people wont have tier

[stable marlin]

I was definitely overthinking it, gloom definitely made it click for me now lmao

[crystal bone]

i miss not caring about lust and taking all the vers mast gear

[shy scarab]

Wait

[left ledge]

just dont think

[crystal bone]

big tanky boy

[left ledge]

dance for sectec

makes it easier

yw

[shy scarab]

Is this for DS or trickster

[left ledge]

idk what DS is

trickster is what sub plays though

[shy scarab]

Deathstslker

[left ledge]

yeah not clicking for me

idk what Deathstslker is

[chrome palm]

i think ds gets fixed

ds perma 1 outside of lust

[crystal bone]

that's your badge

[shy scarab]

DS is blasting when its good

[left ledge]

i just have some cool purple shit

idk what it is

[shy scarab]

But its shit as always and full og bogs

[shy scarab]

Shadowblades

[left ledge]

ah yes

[shy scarab]

🤣

[chrome palm]

shadowblades isnt purple

[left ledge]

press for dance

what is it then man

if its not purple

[shy scarab]

Island boy?

[chrome palm]

its black

[swift tinsel]

"Improved Secret Technique: Secret Technique damage increased by 15%. After using Shadow Dance, your next Secret Technique is free and ignores its cooldown"

done

[left ledge]

thanks man

[shy scarab]

Ur colourblind

[left ledge]

i enjoy the reminder that our visuals are shit

thats great

[jolly wave]

Are we supposed to use powder on 2t?

[astral axle]

is gloomblade ||what xal'atath used to stab alleria in the back?|| if so why don't we talent into that seems op

[serene tapir]

Yup

[left ledge]

no that would be backstab

[shy scarab]

Do you guys know what DN is

[pure yacht]

darkest night

[shy scarab]

Deez nutz

[pure yacht]

^

[shy scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/hirxha-hahaha-good-one-gif-11199247073115110154

[astral axle]

Unsure what that is please explain.

[shy scarab]

Deeeeez nuts

[left ledge]

maybe sectec shouldve just been 20 sec cd with 2 charges

[swift tinsel]

probs was and they "ran out of time"

(had four+ months)

[astral axle]

kinda op that our filler ability can be such a huge plot device

[swift tinsel]

I mean they did just buff it

probably why tbh

[left ledge]

well xalatath is a sub rogue after all

[swift tinsel]

was for the plot

[astral axle]

Duuuude

You're totally right

[swift tinsel]

lore-accurate ability buffs

imagine

[astral axle]

If they didn't buff backstab none of this would have happened

[swift tinsel]

true real and actually

[astral axle]

is my success causing harm in the world? am i the monster?

[swift tinsel]

surely its the children who are wrong

[pure yacht]

damn man all this calculus and meeting of the minds here to figure out our ideal rotation only to be below 20 other dps specs

tough

at least it's better than outlaw and sin

[stuck arrow]

It's actually the upcoming sub buff - gloom blade now gets bonus damage from behind.

[left ledge]

you know, this sim angers me

because if you look at every other blades cast

[hallow matrix]

@left ledge does the sectec have to be supercharged? (side note is sectec also 6cp+? or always 7?)

[torpid echo]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left ledge]

you spend 6+

also i dont know if it has to be supercharged, non tier sim seems to not care too much

just cares about fitting it in

prefers to supercharge it

[fiery fog]

the sim really seems to like this trinket on me as a double passive option

[still gazelle]

I got that heroic uhhh

[swift tinsel]

yeah that one simmed quite high for me whenever I droptimizer simmed

[still gazelle]

Flag trinket

Pretty nice

[hallow matrix]

hmm idk how to confirm this

[left ledge]

i think that sim that was pinged at me

[swift tinsel]

managed a solarflare prism last night and I'm quite happy with it

[left ledge]

is just because he doesnt have flag

idk

[swift tinsel]

extra crit as hp lowers

[fiery fog]

the sim also likes to run pretty low haste

for some reason

[left ledge]

this spec seems to be almost dependent on flag to fit double sectec in blades

[bleak ice]

Hey everyone, new around here. I was on warcraft logs and it looking like Rogue is dont doing well so far. do we think thats just a first couple day slump or are we gonna be week this tier?

[swift tinsel]

might be in a valley between haste granting globals

[still gazelle]

I'm a shit player, but got my first 1 ever on a heroic fight. Flag is BiS.

[left ledge]

we need our tier + a lot of people dont know what they're doing + we arent that great

[bleak ice]

yea i was thinking most of that. i know we are very iLvl reliant compared to other classes.

[hollow spear]

PI is also bis 😄

[still gazelle]

Oh wow, so that's how it's happening.

[swift tinsel]

yeah saw the 3x externals too haha

[still gazelle]

I was wondering how the second sectec got in.

[night sparrow]

Sup guys. Since nm fights are short, isn't First Dance good ?

[left ledge]

sure

[still gazelle]

thought 4pc would do it

[swift tinsel]

4pc def helps

[left ledge]

4pc and flag will guarantee you can sectec twice in blades

[hazy lichen]

how does 4pc help with a second sectec

[still gazelle]

How much of a DPS gain is PI?

[left ledge]

but yeah PI will do that too ig

[still gazelle]

I never got PI in the past.

[left ledge]

not much

[stuck arrow]

Not short enough. Need to proc every 2 minutes iirc or it's literally trolling.

[left ledge]

its pretty bad to put on a sub rogue

[still gazelle]

I don't wanna feel carried by an external.

[fiery junco]

anyone have the link to tier set dps increase spreadsheet

[left ledge]

it maybe gave you like 2k dps lmao

[hallow matrix]

this seems to say it doesn't need to be supercharged

[swift tinsel]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[night sparrow]

Alright, with the Windrunner 2mn trinket I'm able to cast 2 supercharged SecTec inside blades without 4p tho

[left ledge]

i have one response to this

[still gazelle]

Yeah if you have a second on in Sblades

don't uhh worry abou tit

Send it

You're not going to sit on multiple finishers

[left ledge]

from what ive seen it just wants to fit sectec in dance

[stuck arrow]

Hmm. Might be good. Idk. Would have to sim it / try it out with a custom apl. Someone here might be willing to check it out. But kind of a niche situation.

[left ledge]

but thats also saying to just send dance everytime twice in blades with or without sectec

which contradicts the sims and the faq

so you know what

[night sparrow]

Alright thx dude

[still gazelle]

I noticed that there we some awkward timings

[left ledge]

just play devourer

[crystal bone]

what are you guys referring to when you say Flag?

[still gazelle]

Idk if it was my haste, but sometimes I'd get out of sync.

And have Sectec up way too early

[left ledge]

the haste trink off first boss

[still gazelle]

Or blades/sdance etc.

[left ledge]

Light Company Guidon

[crystal bone]

ohh ok

[still gazelle]

But I just kept lining them up

[exotic steeple]

yo does anyone know if there is a rez stone in atal aman? i cant find it to use my beacon on lol

[fervent leaf]

is it okay to macro blade + dance + sectech ?

[still gazelle]

Question is - Do I always hold Sblades for Sectec?

[hazy lichen]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iwJKBGTdgkCkVN1fxevDMM is my sim not using sd right after first one ends cause of sm + vanish in between to make time for the second sectec

[still gazelle]

I do right?

[left ledge]

our cds dont naturally line up

so thats fine

[stuck arrow]

If only flag was referring to flagellation. RIP.

[fervent leaf]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[still gazelle]

Yeah. I have two binds. One for Dance/Sectec and One as you described but also with trinkets.

[stuck arrow]

Flag would low-key or high key even feel fucking fantastic on Sub right now.

[still gazelle]

I call it "Little CD" and "Mega CD"

[left ledge]

listen i have no idea what your sim is doing

but you are below the breakpoint

so at that point its the wild west honestly

[fervent leaf]

so little cd is for when blade is on cooldown and big cd is for opener & blade up

[night sparrow]

@stuck arrow Just so you know, I sim'd with and without TFD. I won 58 dps with TFD. Look how OP it is 🥸 🥸

[still gazelle]

Currently my haste it pretty low w/o trinkets on. Like 11%. What's the sweet spot on paper? I mean I obviously did fine, but what's the goal? 600 right?

[left ledge]

something like 700

[still gazelle]

My sim isn't encourage balls out haste enchants which I found off.

[fervent leaf]

18% it seem

[tribal vortex]

if you have a macro with everything inside you lose a trinket cast for sd maybe. Let's sqay the haste trink

[still gazelle]

Odd*

[left ledge]

650-700 i think

[stuck arrow]

What did it beat?

[arctic abyss]

is duel acuity of ren on weapons bis for enchants or (every time i parse its whats recomended) just doesn't make sense same enchant on both

[still gazelle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bn824AZWnNznPwxjjjrQ3G

[night sparrow]

1/2 Finality

[still gazelle]

It still wanted me to keep Eyes of the Eagle despite my haste being like 11%

[night sparrow]

But 58 dps is just statistic noise so doesn't matter I guess

[hallow matrix]

i give up

[stuck arrow]

How does it fair vs potent powder? I feel like you want huge pp on every fight in the raid.

[hazy lichen]

u got a heroic dagger from ur weekly delve?

[still gazelle]

I sure did.

[hazy lichen]

no toons?

[left ledge]

ye then you look at sims and they're doing both variations

[still gazelle]

I know, I know spending crests on it probably dumb, but it was nice to use.

[still gazelle]

No toons?

[night sparrow]

That's true, there's a huge amount of cleave in this raid so PP is prob better yeah

[hazy lichen]

that shit dropped on ur main?

[left ledge]

i think the safe bet is to just dance for sectec

when you get tier and flag trink

you will get double sectec off in blades anyways

blades will become 20 sec, sectec will be like a 17 sec ish cd

you will fit it in

np

[still gazelle]

That;s accurate

In fact, it surprised me.

Almost didn't cast it..

[hallow matrix]

yeah idk, i'll just tell my raidleader unless he gives me flag and 4set im gonna be a dog and its not my fault

[stuck arrow]

Also like there's so many adds but they all die so fast, lol. Need to be quick on that burst or your parse is dogshit.

[lilac stag]

684-700 is the safe minimum.

[stuck arrow]

Best way to get a raid spot.

[still gazelle]

Oh for sure, but even without that I'm doing "fine". I wonder why the sim isn't telling me to swap crit for haste.

[hazy lichen]

what lowers sec tec cd

[left ledge]

haste

unfortunately

[still gazelle]

11% haste but it suggests this.. Could be the trinket maybe?

[hazy lichen]

where does it say that

[left ledge]

on sectec's description

green number

means hasted cd

[hazy lichen]

damn i thought it was just sd

[left ledge]

shadow dance has a static cd

[hazy lichen]

it all makes sense now

[left ledge]

shadow dance duration is extended by your haste stat

[lilac stag]

No tier, no ilvl, not close to a next gcd in dance

[night sparrow]

Nooo ... it damn well doesn't western music plays

[torn tide]

how much haste should we get for mythic?

stilll 18% ?

[left ledge]

700

not %

700

[hallow matrix]

you spend a lot of time in here, can you explain to us whether or not we double dance in blades or not and if sectec needs to be supercharged?

If you dont know then you can join the club

[torn tide]

thankyou

[lilac stag]

try reading the #subtlety-faq

can always ask fuu for a flowchart

[hazy lichen]

whats the purpose of getting that certain amount

[left ledge]

its a breakpoint for extra gcds in dance and eventually fitting two sectecs in blades with tier and a trinket

[lilac stag]

and going over it isn’t a bad thing. We like auto attacks, a lot

[hallow matrix]

the faq doesn't cover that

[stiff stirrup]

with the new tuning do we BP on three targets or evis?

[left ledge]

going over is fine yeah but is less worth at that point than mastery/crit

just dont build vers

[haughty zephyr]

It does

[hallow matrix]

faq doesn't mention sectec being supercharged or not

and it says to double dance in blades but people are saying that's only with 4p and lust

if no 4p and no lust then 1dance per blades

[hallow matrix]

so no it doesn't

[lilac stag]

reading is hard

[hollow spear]

how do I get my hands on the delve map?

[long storm]

Any downside in unifying the Trickster/DS SD macro like this?

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast [known:441423] Secret Technique; [known:457058] Shuriken Storm

[reef walrus]

3 nightmare preys

[lilac stag]

you're not getting 2 sectech dances in blades without tier (yay math). you can get 2 dances in sblades, then follow up with a 3rd dance + sectech

[hallow matrix]

yeah right back at you buddy

[lilac stag]

or play like a ret main and yolo everything

[hallow matrix]

you didn't read half of what i said lmao

[left ledge]

it honestly does need further clarification

[pure yacht]

its okay bro welcome to class discords people just link you an faq page and tell you to leave lol

[hallow matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/dented-pepe-dentge-meme-hit-gif-15873918808390144538

[left ledge]

because both with and without tier our APL seems to randomly choose to follow 2 dance in blades or not

[hallow matrix]

read faq

[hallow matrix]

literally lmao

[lilac stag]

it's been explained multiple times multiple ways, but go on

[left ledge]

unless we're sandbagging

[pure yacht]

and I've been a part of explaining it to people further up

I don't mind having dicussions and continuing to help

if that irks you then nbd but if people ask questions that have already been answered its whatever- it's a discussion board lol

[lilac stag]

when the initail posts that tags me is more bait than question, they get the learn to read

and yet I still explained it

[hallow matrix]

If loads of people read the faq and still can't understand it, maybe the faq isn't clear?

https://tenor.com/view/oh-wow-you-dont-say-michael-office-wow-michael-scott-gif-11124235989547302113

[lilac stag]

what dont you understand?

[left ledge]

i mean the faq is clear, the sims arent though

hopefully when fuu is on he can explain wtf is going on in some of these sims lmao

[stuck arrow]

Can add ons show how many targets within range of you in midnight? Or is that dead with WAs?

[hallow matrix]

1: does sectec have to be supercharged every time?
2: with no tier and no lust (1:30min blades on a boss), do we double dance or single dance

[lean sigil]

TBH look further up and fuu himself was saying only with lust

confusion is real

[left ledge]

i think FAQ is written with tier in mind

tbf

[reef walrus]

the sims do state that you should not follow the example ability list in there

[sleek musk]

please someone tell me life gets better after 4 set

[swift tinsel]

very likely, yeah

[left ledge]

yes it says that for everything you run, but the ST APL is written by people in here

[lilac stag]

understanding gearing changes answers shouldnt be that confusing

[haughty zephyr]

You were asking if sectec should be used supercharged.
You always enter dance full cp when sectec is up and start by this CD so yes, you’re right, it’s not explicitely mentionned but it’s pure logic

[swift tinsel]

but personally, if there's a difference in play/priority with and without tier set, having those discrepancies noted in the faq would be informative

especially during the first week or two

when most people will not have 4pc

[hallow matrix]

also not true as the wowhead guide literally says sectec will not be off CD in some circumstances

[fleet acorn]

Guys what enchants do I get? I don’t wanna Pay 200k for all

[lean sigil]

well its a guide its very clear ALWAYS use 2 dance in blades, then its only if you have 4 set or lusty

[left ledge]

i get the frustration with repeated questions, but i mean we did expect this

[reef walrus]

and also yes, faq is written with tier in mind, since that's going the be the default state for most people for most of the tier

[lean sigil]

dont need to be a dick about it, not clear

[hallow matrix]

idk who u are but ur responses are adding no value so pls leave it to someone who knows

[astral axle]

doesnt this kinda answer the question? If you only cast SD when SecTech is ready or SB is up and then cast SecTec during SD with 6 or more combo points, then that means that sectech will be charged

[jaunty heath]

I got the first boss haste trinket, but now I have that much haste that its not that good sadge

[lilac stag]

it's ALWAYS 2 dances. lust + tier+ trinket allows for the second dance to have sectech supercharged

[left ledge]

yes we just have to make sure to always mention

LUST AND TIER

honestly quite annoying

[fleet acorn]

Guys Help Guys what enchants do I get? I don’t wanna Pay 200k for all

[left ledge]

[hallow matrix]

guides are out of sync then?

[foggy egret]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[astral axle]

Those are exceptions to the general rotational rule

[left ledge]

no that is probably with tier in mind (although tier sims sometimes randomly ignore that...)

[lilac stag]

@left ledge 2 button spec

[left ledge]

ugh man

[hallow matrix]

no that's optimal use according to the wowhead guide, which is written by fuu

[alpine wraith]

most of the time it is also encounter specific

[daring pike]

so we don t Dance unless we Have Secret technique but is there ever a case where we Secret Technique without Shadow Dance?

[left ledge]

it really is a headache with this tier + lust

and yeah both ways

[sleek musk]

question on the rotation, given the macro to cast shadow dance with sec tec - how do we get shadowblades in before sec tec goes off - do we have to cast it prior to the clones hitting and they will have the effect of shadowbladesÉ

[left ledge]

it is very encounter specific

[lilac stag]

i swear I want to go back and seach how many lost folks said that a month ago

[alpine wraith]

i found on most fights you do want to do the 10 sec wait on blades instead of dance

[left ledge]

most of the time you're holding a few seconds to pad anyways

[alpine wraith]

but some bosses like the one with the amp you cando it the other way

yep

[swift tinsel]

just give us back Dust to line everything up again

[warm marlin]

you don't need lust with the snapshot technology

[cursive bluff]

Is the basic non-cd rotation just gloomblade evis?

[swift tinsel]

ez fix problem solved

[alpine wraith]

gives us dust and prep

outlaw is not using it!

[left ledge]

dust with this i think will dwindle our playerbase to the single digits

LMAOO

[swift tinsel]

nah

[keen dome]

Saladbar 2.0 dying in 3 pulls is making me go

[swift tinsel]

it was their bandaid last time we had misaligned cooldowns

[alpine wraith]

dont worry give it 2 weeks after 3 or 4 assa buffs

[swift tinsel]

history on our side

[alpine wraith]

we back to the we are dozens

[lilac stag]

I know this. we'll let them figure it out when we get past 2x dance in sblades

[swift tinsel]

who would have fucking thought having an ability with a 20 second cooldown and another with a 90 second cooldown would lead to things not lining up

[alpine wraith]

wait until they figure out sometimes the sec tech and dance cds also misalign

and you CAN send a lone sec tech

[left ledge]

oh god please

dont go there right now

[swift tinsel]

while having a third ability have a cooldown reduced by haste

[left ledge]

lets just wait

until we all have tier

[lilac stag]

i'm just gettgin 2800 haste

[left ledge]

to have these more degenerate topics

[lilac stag]

outlaw set gonna be my sub set

[alpine wraith]

i have lots of fun with people

[lilac stag]

everything aligns perfectly

[lean sigil]

well the confusion came when fuu said we only use one dance in blades except with lust

but ill just keep playing like guide sais

[lilac stag]

did you ask fuu to explain?

[lean sigil]

yes

[lilac stag]

and?

[left ledge]

fuu said he will clarify when he's on

[lean sigil]

he said he will do it later

because its not an easy answer

[left ledge]

its not easy because we're discussing no tier, no lust, no trink

[warm marlin]

it's how the sim plays at low haste iirc

[graceful rock]

I’m just slamming stuff til mythic comes out

[warm marlin]

or maybe even with 700 haste and no trinket

[left ledge]

each of those massively changes how you can approach cds

[warm marlin]

like i don't think you should be thinking too hard rn

[lilac stag]

gearing is kinda important

[hazy lichen]

ngl im just playing like a ret paladin rn

[warm marlin]

your cd usage changes drastically with haste level and trinket

and tier

[hazy lichen]

just pressing shit on cd

[left ledge]

i told people to just not think and dance with sectec

thats gonna be the easiest way for you guys to raid

[hazy lichen]

my damage is fine

[lean sigil]

im goona keep dubble dance in blades one sec

[warm marlin]

try to just press things until you have all of guidon + tier + 700 haste then focus on specific cd stuff

[lean sigil]

works

and i guess second sec will fit with gear

[warm marlin]

don't even get me started on the split night where i got PI on every fight

[lilac stag]

the fights seems to encourage blades on CD vs holding it for 10-12 seconds

[warm marlin]

that completely turbo changed my timings

2min spriest PI

[swift tinsel]

personally I think that kind of info would be helpful for people to see

granted I'm sure some of that is being figured out atm

[left ledge]

we should also mention or maybe

BOLDEN

HIGHLIGHT

[warm marlin]

i dont even remember really

[left ledge]

that the holding 2 dance for blades is a MINOR OPTIMIZATION

that is also situationally dependent

and now we're factoring in low haste, gear, lust?, trinket

[warm marlin]

you can quick sim yourself to see but it's wack to go sim these things on clearly suboptimal profiles and writing cd conditions to be optimal is far and away the hardest part of sub apl

[left ledge]

what a mess haste makes

[warm marlin]

like i guarantee raw sectec is optimal at times

[swift tinsel]

yeah messing with the apl to look into this stuff has been a bit of a task lol

[warm marlin]

but getting the robot to recognize that

ya ok

[olive canyon]

i checked FAQ, wanted to confirm if we BP on 2+ still after the tuning in dance or out of it - i think i saw someone suggest its 3+ possibly

[grim pawn]

do you need to do the protocols with this trinket and if so which? or is iit okay to just rip it natty

[lilac stag]

writing an apl for no tier, 2pc or 4pc. no thanks.

[left ledge]

at different haste levels

with trinket or not

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[warm marlin]

3+ as trickster, unless you have PP and some high level of mastery to be determined, deathstalker always 2+

[left ledge]

just dance with sectec

get it over with

[graceful rock]

Off hand sword apl

[wooden wagon]

!log

[swift tinsel]

almost like the way they implemented haste was problematic and we pointed that out a fucking lot

[hazy lichen]

whats apl mean

[left ledge]

sectec is coming up

shadow dance!

[lusty acorn]

What should i craft?

[graceful rock]

Action priority list

[lilac stag]

action priority list

[swift tinsel]

its what the robot uses for logic

generally a bunch of If->Thens

[hallow matrix]

Someone summarise how important guidon is for sub so i can send to my loot council pls

[left ledge]

it is our best trinket

[swift tinsel]

a bit more flow-charty than that

[olive canyon]

lots of the higher parsing rogues on heroic boss 1 just full send no PP and go straight ST trickster

i figured they would defo take potent powders there

[hazy lichen]

whats guidon

[left ledge]

i would very much not look at parses right now lmao

[hallow matrix]

trinket from 1st boss

[olive canyon]

just guaging talent choices

[left ledge]

we dont have much of a choice tbh

the choices we do have are quite minimal

potent powder is decent if you can press black powder

[wooden wagon]

if anyone could look this over, any advice would be much appreciated

[vale pine]

can somone summarize to me the entire discussion around dance use?

whats the question

[olive canyon]

im sure its minimal either way but i was just surprised that no PP taken, given that i thought it would be the fight where you do

[lilac stag]

You started it apparently with one dance in blades

[left ledge]

they're asking whether to always double dance in blades or to have dance for sectec, considering tier vs no tier, lust vs no lust, trink vs no trink

[vale pine]

i did huh

[left ledge]

but also if you're available i would like to ask you about some sims that were linked regarding that

[vale pine]

interesting

[alpine wraith]

fuu setting up the bomb then walking away

like a top g

[vale pine]

i did not do that on purpose if so

[left ledge]

fuu didnt start it

the confusion was already there

[vale pine]

ye

i need to eat something, can then look into whatever people came up with

[lilac stag]

I figured Push asked for 1 dance sims

[vale pine]

so give me 20 mins

[left ledge]

what people came up with

[vale pine]

the one dance discusison with push

[lilac stag]

[vale pine]

was for old xpacs

XD

not for now

[alpine wraith]

mostly people with low gear and no tier etc

[hazy lichen]

whats push

[alpine wraith]

but that is expected

[lilac stag]

well now undergeared people are very confused as to why everything revolves around tier

[warm marlin]

it is indeed not an easy answer

[alpine wraith]

yea many things do change

[lilac stag]

so just dance + Sectech and win

[alpine wraith]

as you gear up

[warm marlin]

the easiest mentality to take in my opinion is just game it up and vibe until you have tier+guidon+700 haste and then think about perfecting cd usage and timings

[alpine wraith]

and then their mind explodes when raid enounters or M+ situations change things

[lilac stag]

yell at your boomies for deleting adds

[warm marlin]

because things do change a lot

[alpine wraith]

even with tier + haste on use and baseline haste there are many caveats to encounter

[warm marlin]

like the dance snapshot tech with guidon

[lean sigil]

so now you change it, because if you follow guide we do not sectech second dance in blades

[lilac stag]

In blades you do dance + Sectech + Dance and follow it with dance + Sectech if you’ve got no gear. Which I said earlier.

[warm marlin]

btw glad they nuked our cooldowns so that it would be easier to do 🙂

[lilac stag]

Stop trying to get “gotcha” fucking moment a

[lean sigil]

you are the rude end of this

[alpine wraith]

we always find a way to make it sound complicated for minor gains

[lean sigil]

ppl are just trying to minmax

[alpine wraith]

we are made like this

[lean sigil]

and find info

[lilac stag]

and you’re looking at gotchas

When I already explained it

[lean sigil]

no but you just did a 180

[radiant swift]

the guide does say send 2 dances even without 2 stec

[lean sigil]

first you sa look at guide noobs its 2x every blades

[olive canyon]

mate i dont post here any where near as much as these dudes, and whilst being here and somewhat taking part here and there - the sheer consistency with which the same questions are asked in nuts - not once an hour, something like once every 10 minutes on average. People be on edge at times

[lean sigil]

and now its blades only if you can sec thec

this is the root of all this

[left ledge]

listen

[swift tinsel]

if there's a difference in play where "If no 4pc/guidon/etc = X" and "If 4pc/guidon/etc = Y" I feel that should be noted

[olive canyon]

They are helping you

[left ledge]

lets just wait for fuu to explain it

[stuck arrow]

Straight up don't understand why flag isn't in place of gore. 😭

[swift tinsel]

bc its week 1

[left ledge]

or i guess

fuu is waiting for what people came up with

LMAO

[olive canyon]

there are far too many qualifiers to match every unique scenario

[left ledge]

this is going to be a shitshow until tier is the norm

[pale tundra]

Its so funny coming from the resto Druid Discord I didn’t think it could get any worse than theirs. But this is exciting to follow 🍿

[left ledge]

the FAQ is correct, it is how the spec should be played

but we are in week 1

with shit gear

no tier

and unfortunately that changes things

A LOT

[lilac stag]

How is this a 180?

[warm marlin]

well the sim doesn't actually double dance blades at low haste

[left ledge]

though seriously whats with these 4p sims NOT double dancing

that is fkin confusing

[lean sigil]

second dance is no sec thech

[warm marlin]

it will just rip blades with one dance and be very sad

[left ledge]

actually

you're wrong

[swift tinsel]

previously, rotation pages on wowhead would have pre-and-post tier abilitiy priority lists if there was a difference

[left ledge]

(sometimes)

[lilac stag]

Which is conditional

[left ledge]

[lilac stag]

Ffs

[warm marlin]

yes sometimes

[lean sigil]

ALWAYS

[warm marlin]

[lean sigil]

is the key here

[left ledge]

i swear the easiest answer

is just dance for sectec right now

[lilac stag]

It’s always 2 dances

[left ledge]

especially for this raid

[fleet acorn]

how do i sim what item i upgrade?

[still gazelle]

Wait a minute... So my SecTec/Dance/Sblades/Flag macro is scuffed? Is there a way to NOT scuff it?

[lean sigil]

and sometimes get sec on second dance

[left ledge]

top gear

[warm marlin]

I've ripped a couple single dance blades in this raid

[lean sigil]

like the guide sais

[radiant swift]

scath lowkey the only one saying what is written in the guide

[warm marlin]

it doesnt feel great ngl

[olive canyon]

I think we should create mass hate to get the devs attention then hopefully get buffed

keep it up lads

[left ledge]

with lust and trinket even without tier you can double sectec in blades yes

[still gazelle]

Referring to this.

[lilac stag]

Send trinket first separate key. Then press swifty macro

[left ledge]

i mean we knew our cds would be a mess to explain

this was inevitable

thats what happens when NOTHING LINES UP

AND IS ALL GEAR DEPENDENT

[warm marlin]

sectec charge given by dance fixes everything and makes the spec way more fun

crazy

[still gazelle]

If you have the trinket then blades then Sdance etc, wouldn't that cause enough delay?

[warm marlin]

it's simpler blozar hello!

[steel horizon]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[olive canyon]

just you wait until goremores bite is buffed

[left ledge]

just turn evis into sectec in dance

[olive canyon]

shits gonna get real

[left ledge]

[lilac stag]

No. Blades and Dance are off gcd casts.

[alpine wraith]

we also have another interesting one people make sometimes

[lilac stag]

Gonna be like Christmas for me

[alpine wraith]

on using dance inside a gcd

and losing some uptime too

that one is the funny ayaya

[left ledge]

[lilac stag]

Outlaw spammers

[still gazelle]

Gotcha gotcha.. Guess I just remove my potion key and bind it to blades and then another bind I'll never use.. For some reason my ElvUI refuses to bind Alt+R

[olive canyon]

Honestly, to me that would be a good fix, make goremaws useful rotationally and i think the spec is in a good spot - its legit just missing 1 small button or aspect imo

[still gazelle]

Idk if it's my keyboard or what.

[alpine wraith]

my dms are a clown car because all of them can fit there

[olive canyon]

feels good otherwise...if you ignore the dmg numbers of course

[lilac stag]

I want it to amp finishers. Not energy.

[olive canyon]

for what its worth, i have my blades tied to all my trinks, racial, pot

and dance macros just to the 1st ability

[olive canyon]

i was thinking this too but it gets spicey real fast with burst

[steel horizon]

rename goremaws to flagellation and have it buff finishers

[lilac stag]

If you hit it too quickly it doesn’t snap which is why some people are doing.

[hazy lichen]

im a night elf without tier guidon and at 17% haste should i instead of using sd right as first one ends on opener, use vanish - strike - evisc - evisc - sm - strike - evisc - backstab - sd - sectec

[chrome palm]

i feel like rogue has a lot of these "button that fixes everything" concepts

like 2x adr

[olive canyon]

yeh i guess i hit it quickly but ill test it once i have my trinket in a month or so

[chrome palm]

they just never do it

[olive canyon]

goremoaws or a replacement would be nice

the end of our tree feels shit

[swift tinsel]

just do that

[chrome palm]

insane concept

[still gazelle]

Oh man, with my ST raid build I was using BP on 2 targets sometimes. Oops.

No potent powder.

[warm marlin]

yep

[swift tinsel]

literally just do that

[chrome palm]

somehow we get a DN rework instead

[olive canyon]

not bad tbh

[swift tinsel]

bro if they don't nuke DS into oblivion

and do a ground-up rework

[warm marlin]

did you play sub yet mr messer

or been full pirate

[still gazelle]

Has shadowstrike always been 3 or less targets during Dance? i thought it was 2.

[chrome palm]

they forced me to play sub after guidon dropped in normal 🥲

[olive canyon]

changed a few days ago after tuning buffs

[lilac stag]

It sims ok for outlaw

[warm marlin]

these were some of the least fun splits ive ever played

[lucid jackal]

I got the fist weapon and the guidon

[chrome palm]

if we did get shot in the dark for secret wouldnt you just hold secret technique for dance still

and double secret each supercharger

[olive canyon]

veil touched and deeper daggers is just the same damn shit really

[swift tinsel]

double superchanged sectech would go hard

[olive canyon]

i dont get the sub tree - assa feels a lot better for tree stuff.

[warm marlin]

ideally they would remove the baseline charge of sectec

[chrome palm]

theyd just nerf it

[lucid jackal]

how I feel saying "yeah that's good for sub." and "yeah that's good if outlaws good" and "sin might want these stats" after every boss

[olive canyon]

lol

[lilac stag]

Funny what happens when you get a full and complete rework.

[warm marlin]

i feel like the raid is just missing mechanics idk

[chrome palm]

yeah lol

[swift tinsel]

^^^

[warm marlin]

maybe its been too long since ive been in heroic

[chrome palm]

every fight is 1 mechanic and then an intermission

[warm marlin]

but my class is like half as fun as it used to be and the npcs just dont do anything

[olive canyon]

fights feel too easy and the good guilds will just stomp

[warm marlin]

10 minute chimaerus

[olive canyon]

only the last fight seems like it may crank

[chrome palm]

vaelgor and alleria are the only fights i enjoyed so far

[swift tinsel]

this might be the time I go full m+ main

[fleet acorn]

we only play Deathstalker on Salhadaar?

[chrome palm]

chimaerus intermisison is SOO boring

[warm marlin]

ya dragons feels a bit like a real fight

[swift tinsel]

just to have a variety of stuff to do

[lilac stag]

I want to dragons on mythic

[olive canyon]

Pretty sure most the rogues just stayed as ST sub the whole way without PP

[warm marlin]

alleria is visually cool and the sylv throwback was crazy

[potent frigate]

Would it be bad idea to macro Shadow Blades on Secret technique + shadow dance combo? I am debating whether to do it or not - in case I need to save shadow blades for the next rotation of ST + SD.

[fleet acorn]

anyone knowss ? we only play Deathstalker on Salhadaar?

[still gazelle]

In theory, wouldn't one press being Blades/Potion/Trinket and then the next macro being Dance/Sectec alleviate the trinket issue? Buff then slap?

[olive canyon]

St trickster sub that is

[limpid sage]

https://tenor.com/view/godfather-massacre-sad-gif-16810633

[lilac stag]

You lose up to a second of Sblades

[warm marlin]

i watched back a dimensius kill yesterday and i miss it

[still gazelle]

Oh wow, really?

Damn.

[chrome palm]

sometimes i do this just to look at my old ui 😭

[lilac stag]

you need .2 for snapping haste. How quickly you push dance to that timing matters

do whatever works for you

[warm marlin]

but idk i usually dont mind splits

these ones suck

[fleet acorn]

so on every boss trickster?

[warm marlin]

i hope mqd being delayed means those fights are bangers

[fleet acorn]

i thought ssalhadaar is deathstalker?

[warm marlin]

alleria is a good sign

[still gazelle]

How would you do this in a way to that minimizes keybinds? Currently I'm trying to have any cooldown macros / trinkets / pots on three keys.

[chilly dagger]

I see that I have a Trovehunters Bounty in my inventory. Must it be a bountiful Delve to use it? Or can I just start any +8 delve, use it and get that loot at the end?

[lilac stag]

That’s a you kinda thing. Stuff should be bound separate s well as macro’d

[warm marlin]

i initially changed my blades/dance/st macro to just blades/guidon when i got it but i think it just makes more sense to have a separate guidon bind

and keep the blades/dance/st one

[lilac stag]

yep

Once I see the animation I hit the sblade dance one

[warm marlin]

im too stockholmed

[still gazelle]

Yeah that's probably the call.

[warm marlin]

i was giga tilted from it not giving me dance duration for the first few pulls

then i found the timing and now it's like im hitting a sekiro parry

[lilac stag]

missing it once ruins menty

[swift tinsel]

if only you could add it to the cdm and alert when buff applied

[warm marlin]

we are going to have to track the cooldown for snapshotting instead

[hallow matrix]

does the guidon sim properly? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mqX9nKaTexVVwT3AP2TSCm 1.5kdps gain seems kinda low for it being out bis trinket 26 ilvls up

[warm marlin]

it's a lot better with tierset

[placid crown]

With the dance casted before the pull of a raid fight and the dance casted at the pull, does it mean that my 4 first finishers are supercharged ? If yes, does it mean that the minmax thing with the apex talent aplies for the 4 first fnishers ?

[warm marlin]

yes

[lilac stag]

This should be first line of FAQ

[still gazelle]

I realized I didn't need a "Little" CD macro and a big one. I didn't want to always pop sblades so I had one Dance/Sectec one and one Dance/Trinket/Sectec/Blades one. Realizing I can just have one Sectec/Blades/Dance and just hold it if Blades is sub 10. Otherwise it's fine to mash. Then have a separate trinket one.

[warm marlin]

[lilac stag]

blanket statement

[still gazelle]

I made my own problem.

[warm marlin]

you may want to hold blades at some point

i think having another dance/st bind that just has blades attached and a trinket only keybind is the cleanest way

i got room with all the buttons we lost

guidon is now on the flag keybind

[swift tinsel]

hey that's where my on-use is now

[still gazelle]

Yeah. I'm just stubborn. Had things a certain way for a long time. Not used to having CD's/Trinkets in these new spots lol.

[keen dome]

Someday I will find a button to go on '2' where ruptrue went

[hazy lichen]

are you playing trickster

[keen dome]

But alas, not today

[lusty solar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

rupture becamse dance+sectech

[warm marlin]

my rupture is now my dance/evis macro

[placid crown]

yes

[warm marlin]

my cold blood is now my dance/bp macro

[swift tinsel]

I could have put that where my old sectech+cb was

[hazy lichen]

what minmax thing are you referring to

[lilac stag]

Where is dance+storm

[warm marlin]

that's where symbols was

[swift tinsel]

might make cb+sectech into dance+sectech and then rupture bind to dance+evisc

[lilac stag]

Put the old icons as the tooltip icon

[keen dome]

hah

[placid crown]

casting strike for supercharged finishers during a dance if i have 5 virtual cp (which always happen)

[olive canyon]

lads how do i disable these raid frames - nothing works

thery are driving me insane, i think they are stock raid frames

[lilac stag]

What in the fuck is that

[keen dome]

They are, yeah.

[hazy lichen]

at max combo points?

[swift tinsel]

should be a setting in Edit Mode

[olive canyon]

dude i dont know

[keen dome]

Also congratulations on Nezarr being the first solo raid team.

[olive canyon]

i cant find it and its driving me insane

[swift tinsel]

yeah big uppies

[placid crown]

ye

[fleet acorn]

how can i sim that i dont pickup all souls from the trinket? (the circled one is the crucible)

[swift tinsel]

I don't think that part is implemented yet

[fleet acorn]

not sure what to upgrade

[swift tinsel]

couldn't find the Unique Effects string to modify it

[fleet acorn]

idk in raid if i can see souls

[keen dome]

that's cruicble though?

[swift tinsel]

I'm personally just not going to use it

[fleet acorn]

no

[swift tinsel]

you circled crucible

[fleet acorn]

vessel of tortured souls

[keen dome]

you cricled cruible though

[fleet acorn]

yea or that

what i should upgrade

[swift tinsel]

but yeah vessel will sim higher than you can likely play it

[placid crown]

my question was more on the NUMBER of finishers concerned by striking before, realizing it could be 4 at the pull, instead of 2, because of the dance casted before pull.

[swift tinsel]

well, than most/anyone can play it

in m+ its notably easier to use though bc less effect noise drowning them out

[chilly dagger]

Was Tempered Potion the prepot of a previous expansion? where using lights hope now, right? I have an old Blades Macro with tempred potion in 😄

[swift tinsel]

yes

tempered was old

now its light's potential

[chilly dagger]

Thank you Haptics!!

[fleet acorn]

i have these 3 to pick from but cant even sim it

[chilly dagger]

would be so lost without your help 😄

[lilac stag]

wdym you can’t sim it?

[fleet acorn]

cause the value is not true

[swift tinsel]

simming vessel isn't an accurate picture

[fleet acorn]

idk how much dps loss i have

[swift tinsel]

bc you're likely not maintaining the same stack number as the sim is

[fleet acorn]

ye thats what i mean

[swift tinsel]

was 4.5-4.7 stack average

when I simmed it

if you're below that, it loses notable value

[lilac stag]

I think it got corrected in latest.

[swift tinsel]

and its very, very easy to be below that in raid

[lilac stag]

Value dropped for me in sims

[fleet acorn]

ill try latest right now

[keen dome]

Just assume it gives nothing

[fleet acorn]

then its bad xd

[keen dome]

because the trinket does nothing except +mastery if you don't pick stuff up

[hazy lichen]

is there a way to sim out of all your gear which is best to put crests into ugprading

[swift tinsel]

hm didn't see it in the github commits

[left ledge]

top gear allows you to set limits on crests

when selecting multiple variations of gear with limited crests, it will sim them against each other and tell you what is the best to upgrade

[vocal rock]

What is the estimated dps gain from using AAs perfectly? Like how much should I hate myself if I use finisher during SD when I should have SS

[left ledge]

1%

[vocal rock]

Ok that’s a relief lol

[pulsar hemlock]

Bounty trove was kind

[keen dome]

Nice

[fleet acorn]

latest its still bis

[olive canyon]

yeh but the feels is 10%

and sub has to be about the feels at the moment

[lofty path]

anyone know of a way to track passive trinket effects on CDM (namely vessel of tortured souls)? I'm using ayijie cdm and I can't figure out how to get it to work if it even can.

[swift tinsel]

yeah vessel still simming high for me

[olive canyon]

I think Aijae cdm

can do a lot of that trinket tracking stuff

[lofty path]

I've tried tracking the spell id for the buff and it doesn't output in the CDM

[crystal atlas]

How do you upgrade the renown trinkets ability other than crests?

[lofty path]

I think I read somewhere that passive and on use trinkets submit the data of their buffs differently, so I wasn't sure if anyone here knew of a way to track it

[signal charm]

Why does sub dmg in big aoe packs feel lackluster?

[sonic cipher]

Anyone know about how much it costs to craft the dagger

[keen dome]

This will vary depending on your server.

[fleet acorn]

u cant track passives

[warm marlin]

console in big hub in voidstorm

[warm marlin]

uses purple dna icon as currency, should have used it once during campaign

[swift tinsel]

still sims with the same stack

[lofty path]

okay that's what I figured, I just wanted to ask here to see if anyone knew something I didn't

[steel horizon]

why is it only with non sec tec finishers? Does AA not work with sectec?

[fleet acorn]

can anyone sim for me gear upgrades ? i donnt have premium raidbot

[long marlin]

for chim should we be simming hectic add cleave?

[tiny lark]

Should we craft the belt already???

[odd sandal]

So, the only time we don't want blades/dance/sectech on a macro together is if we have a haste trinket?

[verbal kelp]

What is the best flask for us? magisters?

[shell relic]

the second embellishment set where it's best on wirst or belt? i

I've seen too many rogues who wear them on one ear and others on the other.

[wet jacinth]

should i spark craft my arcanowave belt ? i alreday sent my dagger but is it worth or should i sim for every other slot ?

[oak grotto]

What buffs do you guys track in cooldownmanager?

[swift tinsel]

dance, blades, escalating blade, shadow techniques

mark/dn if deathstalker

[steel horizon]

i wish escalating blade and coup were be two seperate trackable buffs kind of like how mark/dn are

[hazy lichen]

is there a way to sim the best items in my bags and if its better than what i have equipped

[umbral fulcrum]

top gear

[swift tinsel]

idk I like having eb/coup being one thing, less clutter

[umbral fulcrum]

raidbots top gear

is exactly that

[fleet acorn]

Anyone with raidbots premium can help me out?

[lofty path]

so I asked a friend about this the other day, but wasn't able to get a clear answer. What are you supposed to do about CDs naturally desyncing through a fight? I follow the rotation like in the guide, I have 694 haste before flask, ~834 haste after flask, so my dance duration is ~7s and sectech cd is ~19s. A perfect example is for second blades coming up I have one charge of SD available with one incoming in 10s, am I just supposed to wait the extra 10s to have full stacks line up for blades? sorry for the long post

[hazy lichen]

it automatically checks my bags when i press find top gear?

[swift tinsel]

your simc import will ahve that info

[umbral fulcrum]

go check it out and you will see

[swift tinsel]

and it will also know how many crests/sparks you have

[umbral fulcrum]

ok so choose more than one combination

[fleet acorn]

u need premium or u cant do it

[hazy lichen]

do i have to click every piece of gear in my bags

[swift tinsel]

yeah you need to manually select which pieces

[umbral fulcrum]

it has instructions on the screen

[umbral fulcrum]

??? no

[wispy pebble]

Heyo, do we ever force aa outside of supercharged points?

[umbral fulcrum]

that is not true

lol

[swift tinsel]

well not every single one, just the ones you want to know

[fleet acorn]

see my screenshot

[umbral fulcrum]

you have too many options chosen

did you even read what it says

[fleet acorn]

thats only my slotss

[steel horizon]

cant make coup glow on 4 stacks in arcui when its a single buff though 😭

[fleet acorn]

idk what is best how do i compare

[umbral fulcrum]

you use raidbots

[swift tinsel]

can have it show the number 4 though

[umbral fulcrum]

and you compare options

[hazy lichen]

is there a easy way to do it or do i have to do like 30 different sims

[umbral fulcrum]

you use your mouse and you click on gear pieces

[swift tinsel]

pay for premium

otherwise you'll have to run iterative sims

[vale pine]

Alright, to come back to the shadow dance discussion.
You basically have to dance on a 20-second timer, secret typically a bit above 20.
So you can use secret and dance roughly every 20 sec together.
Around 80-85 sec you will get secret cooldown back, but won't be able to use it because you want to have it ready once Blades comes off cooldown.

So you delay, and thus use 2x dance during blades.
It might happen that you won't be able to fit 2 dances later in the fight due to cdr in blades.

[swift tinsel]

or more or less batch them

[steel horizon]

ik thats my issue lol. i feel like i'm constantly staring at it and waiting for it to hit 4 so i dont send a bp by accident (in aoe at least)

thus is the world without wa's though

[swift tinsel]

its not the end of the world if you bp

you just send coup as your next finisher

[umbral fulcrum]

you can just macro coup with bp no?

[swift tinsel]

you can

but eh

[lofty path]

so my mistake is that I need to wait ~5s to dance / sectech after first blades window?