subtlety

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/its-me-hi-im-the-problem-its-me-taylor-swift-anti-hero-midnights-hi-gif-13029647805586693511

[mint swift]

[mint swift]

No
That’s clearly Hi

[lilac stag]

He was lucky his mother didn’t eat him as a baby rodent

[mint swift]

True

[tribal blade]

lol true and real

[mint swift]

Tbh I was tempted to play sub after testing it instead of outlaw

But I’ve rerolled to an SP as we had like
2 other rogues

[lilac stag]

They’ll quit

Just needed to be patient

[mint swift]

One of them is the raid leader haha

[lilac stag]

Tell him to play bm

What fucking RL wants to be in melee

[mint swift]

A chad one

He is also playing enhance I think

Cause he raid leads 2 guilds

[tribal blade]

holy shit that's kinda psycho

[mint swift]

And he’s a medical student in uni

Idk how TF he balances it all but he does lmao

[tribal blade]

this guy is in charge of like 40-60 raiders

[tribal blade]

WHAT

exCUSE ME

[lilac stag]

that seems like a stretch

[tribal blade]

yeah that sounds bordering on impossible

[mint swift]

Yea
Also some people raid in both
Like
4 (including him)

[tribal blade]

but there are insane people out there

[still depot]

one emergency department must have a lot of deaths

[mint swift]

Also being the raid lead doesn’t mean like

You do 100% of it
Ofc officers always help n such

But it’s still a lot

[tribal blade]

oh yeah for sure, but it's still the biggest job in the raid

by a lot

[keen dome]

You can raid lead as melee. It's just, uh. Awkward.

[lilac stag]

I feel it’s a Dr Seuss medical uni

[wild vine]

How would it be impossible? Nearly all the work you do as a raidlead is the same no matter if its one or two raids, also people raidlead after work aswell

[tribal blade]

but can you raid lead 2 raid teams as melee while studying medicine in uni

[keen dome]

I bet I could

[wild vine]

Studying, even hard subjects, isnt more draining than working 9-10h a day

[keen dome]

You didn't say that ti had to be done well.

I was studying my final year of Law while pugleading VotI and leading a heroic guild, too. Not remotely the same level but like. It's fine.

[tribal blade]

i dunno doing x2 the amount of work a usual raid lead does while studying a subject that requires intense study is kinda bonkers

[wild vine]

It literally isnt 2x the work

[woeful barn]

You have time to study and raid in med school. Just not the first few years of residency.

[keen dome]

It's not 2x the work because you prep it once and it's done.

[tribal blade]

sure the prep isn't, but you're sitting in x2 the amount of raid time

[mint swift]

I see it as it’s more of incredible time management

[tribal blade]

on top of needing to deal with double the size of a raid team and managing the people

[keen dome]

assuming they're doing raid management too

Which isn't the same as raid leading

[wild vine]

Thats double the raid time ye. You kinda have nothing to do the whole day as a student but studying and your free time tho

[mint swift]

You technically have time for a lotta things
But it’s moreso how you manage it as opposed to having it

[woeful barn]

The trick is to never study the books because it’s impossible. The upper class pass down the high yield info. As long as wards don’t stress you out min maxing time management becomes second nature lol

[mint swift]

I’m p sure it’s also mainly tests as opposed to assignment work

But I’d have to ask him

[wild vine]

Idk how it is in other countries, but where I'm from people spend like 6 hours a day studying tops

[tribal blade]

power to him if he figured out how to do that nightmare

[wild vine]

Even less for easier subjects or if they are just smart af

Or stupid.

[tribal blade]

fair enough

[woeful barn]

It also depends on what field you’re interested in. If it’s anything periop there’s no chance in hell.

[mint swift]

True

[tribal blade]

i've heard different stories about medical school so that's why i was skeptical

i've heard it's incredibly time intensive

[mint swift]

I know he isn’t doing anything related to dentistry because iirc that’s a completely separate field

[woeful barn]

Depends on your resources.

[wild vine]

Ive heard you just gotta be born for it or you will just suffer either way

[tribal blade]

true yeah

[chrome palm]

🚨 🚨 important transmission 🚨 🚨 🚨

[tribal blade]

i might also be having in my head what a resident goes through

[wild vine]

Also prerequisites for medical school in germany are rather rough, so the people that get in are a different breed as far as soaking up knowledge goes to begin with

[tribal blade]

LET THEM BURN

[mint swift]

Oh awesome just got news of a meningitis outbreak in the county my uni is in :(

That’s just great news

[woeful barn]

You never truly get over the trauma of residency lol but that depends on mindset. That’s the born for it factor.

It’s just a lot of 24s during weekends after a regular work week. You eat and sleep whenever you can squeeze it in.

The debt alone is hardly worth it unless you choose a high earning field

[mint swift]

He isn’t in the US

So it’s not life ruining student loan

Still a lot though

[woeful barn]

That’s good

Has anyone played DS in dungeons?

[wild vine]

I sometimes forget that people need to work while studying

In other countries

[mint swift]

I do

I do uni and have a job

[woeful barn]

Same all 8 years

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't do that to yourself

just play trickster and vibe

[woeful barn]

Don’t plan on it just asking

[tribal blade]

not recently no

[woeful barn]

If it plays similar too TWW in aoe. I cranked with it last expac in both

[wild vine]

You dont need to around here, some do part time tho. Does interfere with the months or potentially up to 1.5 years you gotta work study-related tho

[tribal blade]

you don't ignore DN anymore

that was a thing during TWW

[woeful barn]

Yeah so you just consume it

Only change?

[tribal blade]

pretty much yeah

[ornate reef]

craft weapon yes or no?🤔 🤔

[woeful barn]

I crafted weps on both rogues lol

If I vault one early oh well

Not pushing mythic early

[wild vine]

Most people did

[ornate reef]

mm exactly

[woeful barn]

First boss has a damage amp right? The tic tac toe boss

[keen dome]

I don't believe so. Salhadaar does though.

[woeful barn]

Yeah it’s the third boss mb

Couldn’t remember which

When he does the rotating beam

[keen dome]

Yep

[tribal blade]

what was the time on that burn

[lilac stag]

20 seconds

I believe

[tribal blade]

sorry mb at what time stamp

completely forgot to check that

[plush roost]

Its every 1:35 iirc

Convienient

[bleak night]

[glass jasper]

Are we still sending one BS in each dance?

[lilac stag]

Read #subtlety-faq at the minimum. Preferably read one of the three guides.

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tribal blade]

hey can we send a backstab in dance for a DM stack

asking for a friend

[lilac stag]

Yes, but only after you press alt-f4 to unlock supercharge supercharger

[tribal blade]

write that down

[vale pine]

you can send backstab in dance

its just not rly a damage gain

[onyx flame]

Will there be a vault for heroic week?

[tribal blade]

never again

[mighty citrus]

my glead asked me how good our tset is. do we have some numbers?

[swift tinsel]

Hey don’t knock backstab it just got buffed!!

Surely its impactful now

[vale osprey]

Just say it's +30% for 2p and +90% for 4p and then they'll give you tier

[mighty citrus]

pin said 13%

u think

[tribal blade]

left one is trick

right is DS

[mighty citrus]

thanks!

[vale pine]

with context

but deathstalker is lower %

meanwhile higher final output

[swift tinsel]

I’ll take that 3k loss not to play DS

[north schooner]

3k DPS but you have a chance for your mark to disappear because it felt like it

exciting

[swift tinsel]

Yeah never worth imo

Unless it’s 20%+ ahead

And even then I’m playing outlaw instead

[void ocean]

poor Mark, he never had a chance

[swift tinsel]

A 3% dps loss trade off is so worth it if it means never playing DS

[sick jackal]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

Bench reacting when we’re a 4/8 guild

[keen dome]

the bench is comfy

[south kernel]

did i just wake up to DS being better?

[void ocean]

if u stare at bench long enough, the bench stares back at u

[south kernel]

and this sim has to be the most cursed thing i've ever seen in my long career of midnight rogue

[north schooner]

it's not yet the darkest timeline, both hero specs are close

[south kernel]

im on team haptics for this one i dont think i'd go DS for only a 3%

if its more like 10 then yea maybe i'll consider going havoc

[north schooner]

It was less than 2% diff last I checked

[south kernel]

or even worse.... outlaw

[plush roost]

Hey fuu this was brought to my attention, is there a reason the default profile isnt sblades at 1 second with sec tec instead?

[wanton adder]

Considering Raid mechanics and other external factors that 3% is not that big of a deal
Yes, on paper DS looks better but at the end of the day everyone chooses what is more comfortable to play with

[plush roost]

Causes last sec tec clone to be outside blades

[south kernel]

yea its true i just wanted to share my hatred for DS

[vale pine]

it was no gain to add more logic to it

even tho you are correct

[open coyote]

Has anyone done m+ on beta with sub, how quick does the packs die compared to our SB timer?

Obviously this is very different between pulls, but like during the "normal" packs of 4-6 mobs and the huge 12-15 mob pulls how long do we end up having outside of the big coolies?

[halcyon jackal]

Hi new to discord, where can I see the latest build?

[plush roost]

Messer was doing some stuff he found a gain, but it could be ds specific it broke trickster sims https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eRnUkdXseDit17R5GT9VHE

[vale pine]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hbdQpWhYSrde6duZz7FJXw

there is a small gain if you add it

[open coyote]

#subtlety-faq

[vale pine]

ah interessting

let me check

[open coyote]

Near the top of the chat

[vale pine]

the 0.5 is the same i got

[chrome palm]

i think its good to check for shuriken storm as previous cast

[vale pine]

the snd check i need to see if it works in aoe

it would be one option

[chrome palm]

the snd check was just a quick and dirty way to delay it its not a serious thing

[vale pine]

ye

i just forced it too

[chrome palm]

when lingering darkness gets fixed 🌚 i dont think it matters though

because it should be 30% = 30% if secret falls under blades

[plush roost]

? Keep dreaming

[chrome palm]

no i like it this way, i can pretend i still have flagellation

[vale pine]

i wish we had snd on bp

but both use evis in aoe kinda

so it should be fine

let me quick sim

[tribal blade]

are you DS pilled

[swift tinsel]

Man just wants current sub to burn

[paper trail]

Whats the plan regarding pvp craft and socket? havcnt played since df s1 so abit lost on crafts etc for purely pve power

[vestal escarp]

I would be if it was playable

[chrome palm]

i just want to post a number higher than 110 in guild chat xdd

[keen dome]

no, no.

[swift tinsel]

Lmao based

[keen dome]

They just desire Maximum Purple.

[tribal blade]

LOL fair enough

[swift tinsel]

I’ve been playing voidman for my extra purple fix

[olive canyon]

Do you cover all of blades with dance still or is that just under lust

[chrome palm]

ds single dances blades after lust 💀

[plush roost]

Im about to tell marsh that we should leave cleave to the cleave classes and ill have intercourse with the boss

[lilac stag]

Just alter auto attack in sim

[tribal blade]

wait are you 2 in the same guild

[plush roost]

No

Hes in xD

[tribal blade]

ahhh ok

[plush roost]

Im in consequence

[lilac stag]

charrrend in DX

[chrome palm]

theyre not buying the outlaw tier thing

[vale pine]

ye

it seems like this quickly becomes worse

with more targets

[tribal blade]

oh fuck yeah

take wox's spot

[plush roost]

Im almost 100% we play outlaw on paladins prog

[lilac stag]

Show them outlaw offhand weapon dps and they’re believe

[tribal blade]

in banshers and vegan's group

[chrome palm]

thats fucked up

[plush roost]

Nahh wox is a cool guy

[tribal blade]

haha yeah i joke i joke

[chrome palm]

the snd thing or the dance->storm->blades/secret thing?

[plush roost]

Ill stick to being verbally abused by Ciwu LOL

[vale pine]

both

[tribal blade]

haha

[vale pine]

but the snd change is bad on 2 already

tho i need to check for trickster too

so give me a moment

hmm

think the lines break completely on trickster

XD

let me quick check if its a win to force tho

seems neutral on trickster

interessting

[chrome palm]

trickster uses blades with secret anways, right?

[vale pine]

oh true

trickster already uses blades slightly later

[chrome palm]

it seemed like a smaller gain on 3 targets but a substaintial loss at like 8

[vale pine]

it migth be as simple

as

[chrome palm]

oh my line is just poorly written i think

[vale pine]

removing the deathstalker check

[chrome palm]

it does a separate dance before using dance/blades

[keen dome]

Balo'ren will be fun for extra Purple.

[vale pine]

ye, it seems like its an easy fix

let me quick check if what i did holds up with more targets

[chrome palm]

its because it shuriken storms after secret technique so the condition for blades is never met

[vale pine]

you get the same reult with this

[chrome palm]

i wonder what happens when you force it to evis for snd

[jade urchin]

do we care about clear the witness in any form for deathstalker?

[upbeat cradle]

in AoE, do you open with eviscerate if you don't have SnD up ? Or do you just wait for CdG to be up for it and just blast BP otherwise ?

[vale pine]

alright

this seems solid in aoe too

less complexity + win

we take it

[frigid ingot]

can we access these sims somehow to see what rotation is being used?

[vale pine]

!sheet

[glass kelp]

it always tells you the timeline in raidbtos

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frigid ingot]

Thank you

[gilded ferry]

new optmization?

[vale pine]

or you want the simulations i ran

its just

this line change

its rly not complicated

blades was used asap in the sim

now its with dance/secret

its a small change, but means blades can cover abilities, which is benefitial

[gilded ferry]

whats that optmization that was going around about supercharged? anyone has it?

[vale pine]

we already did that

so its more a sim fix

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[vale pine]

^ thats the supercharger optimization

[tribal blade]

wait does this put DS even more ahead of trickster now

[frigid ingot]

was talking about the simulations you ran in your vid latest, but i get it.

[karmic harbor]

how much more damage is that optimization

[lilac stag]

🚀 🌚

[vale pine]

moment

[jade canopy]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[karmic harbor]

also what are all the super secret hidden tricks commands

or is it like compiled somewhere

[hazy breach]

Thats literally it

[karmic harbor]

mfw i actually need to learn this class before raid 🥴

oh nice

[lilac stag]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[lilac stag]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[lilac stag]

now you can be min max sub rogue

[hollow spear]

Can you pls stop optimising ds?

[karmic harbor]

oh im ascending so hard

[hollow spear]

Thank you, the community

[glass kelp]

its an easy spec really, youre gonna pump

[tribal blade]

no no, now find more dmg in trickster 😉

[gilded ferry]

we need to stop this DS nonsense

[tribal blade]

find a missing 3%

[gilded ferry]

whoever started this, please shut it down

[lilac stag]

We will enjoy our role as ST Boss feet tickler

[vale pine]

1T | 2T | 3T | 4T | 5T | 6T | 7T | 8T

took me longer to copy/paste that than running the actual sim ^^

[drifting fable]

@vale pine did you ever plan on remaking the weakaura that checked how many enemies were in range or something like that

[lilac stag]

he did

It’s called open eyes

[drifting fable]

Not. Cool.

[gilded ferry]

skip what are you doing here

[glass kelp]

👀

[frigid ingot]

deathstalker uses the shuriken storm proc in ST inside shadowdance? (instead of shadowstrike?)

[gilded ferry]

its outlaw tier buddy

[chrome palm]

i also think it might be a good idea to use blades after the first builder in dance, which is what i tried to do

[gilded ferry]

skadaddle

[drifting fable]

Lol

[chrome palm]

you would need to press guidon manually though

[lilac stag]

More than 1 hard to count?

[drifting fable]

I havent played outlaw in 2 years brother

[drifting fable]

I rather not have to count

[gilded ferry]

time to go back home

[drifting fable]

and look at weakaura

[lilac stag]

try classic. I think WA still work there

[vale pine]

we can try

[hazy breach]

per #subtlety-faq

[frigid ingot]

lol

[lilac stag]

I swear #subtlety-faq hides better than rogues do

[chrome palm]

i just gave the guidon trinket the same conditions as what shadow blades used to use

[hollow spear]

We need to make this a pop up when people visit our channel

[frigid ingot]

seems like most raid fight seem to have some type of add/cleave at some point of the fights, i think trickster will outperform deathstalker at current % difference.

[lilac stag]

rename it to Dave’s Common Questions

[lilac stag]

Until the actual cleave specs destroy the adds and there’s nothing but ST left

[karmic harbor]

mfw

maybe haste gems and enchants can save me

[hollow spear]

Messerknecht is a known deathstalker connoisseur, you've heard it here first

[frigid ingot]

sub has good burst, we will benefit from that

[lilac stag]

yeah. Will help our ST boss dmg in the dmg amp window

[frigid prawn]

So I can't macro sd with that emberwing feather? 🙁

[hollow spear]

We'll need six charges of shadowstep

To get to the adds and back to the boss

[lilac stag]

2 buttons. ALL THE CONFUSION

[gilded ferry]

CALM DOWN SCATH ITS 9 IN THE MORNING

[karmic harbor]

bro do people actually have 700 haste?

wtf

[hazy breach]

@vale pine Not that it really matters but your overrides has a 20% buff to strikes, not 15%

[chrome palm]

youre not gonna believe this...

[lilac stag]

Yes. If you play the game you get haste.

Sitting at 900

haste for sale

[indigo nexus]

Do we rather want to hold shadowblades to pair is with sectec+dance (or even double dance?) or hold sectec+dance to pair it with shadowblades?
Is there any max time we want to hold either?

[south kernel]

MESSER STOP PLEASE

[karmic harbor]

HOW

[hazy breach]

Correct

[south kernel]

it cant be deathstalker

it shouldnt PLEASE

[karmic harbor]

All my stats add up to 1500

😩

[vale pine]

oh, must be a typo

moment

[lilac stag]

just following blizzards coding style

[frigid ingot]

@indigo nexus on the sims i have looked from fuu it always uses shadowdance with sectec , but i might be wrong.

[hollow spear]

Do you have a tiktok clip that explains how to consume stacks of ds mark after it just disappeared?

[lilac stag]

Try reading the #subtlety-faq instead of looking at 1 iteration of a sim for what to do.

[frigid ingot]

@lilac stag i m looking at one iteration of a sim for what to do

[pale tundra]

how do you open that? sorry, new to simming with raidbots as i only played heal before

[lilac stag]

Coming Soon™ from musclebruh

[glass kelp]

scrool down on the sim results page

[lilac stag]

Which is wrong to do but have fun

[indigo nexus]

Making sure to always get 2 :ShadowDance:s during :ShadowBlades: by holding :ShadowDance: + :SecretTechnique: if :ShadowBlades: has less than 10 seconds left of its cooldown.
Forgot there was a FAQ, thx

[pale tundra]

So does it only work for my own sims? Cause when i click fuu´s link, theres nothing to scroll down to

[plush roost]

I mean in raid, where ds will be played, it should never happen

[glass kelp]

only own sims i think. i havent really tried opening sims from anyone else, mb

[lilac stag]

@plush roost did you start this mess?

[chrome palm]

all of those pure st fights where we play ds

which there are many of

[plush roost]

U only lose mark when u dn something as it dies

[chrome palm]

does bop still bug it?

[plush roost]

Or its chimerus smile

No idea on bop part

[chrome palm]

it did that on beta, i heard someone say a player paladin can bug you recently

[fleet acorn]

what do we craft before reset - all pieces i dont have champion gear? with haste/mastery?

[lilac stag]

@molten citrus does bop still bork

[hazy breach]

He said it didnt in pvp atleast

[lilac stag]

we’re saved!

can finally RP the cool hero tree

[chrome palm]

now i can finally play deathstalker subtlety on the 3 target fight 🥂

[hazy breach]

@vale pine Yeah i wasnt expecting the overrides to change anything, i was just wondering why your sim was higher than mine with the exact same apl

[zenith mirage]

will it be played tho

[lilac stag]

[vale pine]

i also added the aa increase

thanks for pointing it out

i missed it completely

override.spell_data=effect.191063.base_value=144.95

[plush roost]

I think theres a higher chance than people expect, you can have too much cleave and if taking the rogue off trickster for more ST is worth it well...

[vale pine]

is for the aa stuff

i updated the 2 st sims in !sheet

[hazy breach]

Theres also the f-word

[chrome palm]

i think evasion dr is way better than fazed dr

[hazy breach]

If adds don't need to die immediately

[lilac stag]

Our cleave isn’t great. And well outlaw is outlaw.

[chrome palm]

for raid

[vale pine]

F-U-||sadly not a 2nd u||

[lilac stag]

Funnel back on the menu boys

All the clones

[leaden prairie]

sub funnels now ?

explain !

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker

[leaden prairie]

explain right this moment !

no i will not accept that !

[swift tinsel]

DS doesn’t exist it can’t hurt you

[vale pine]

deathstalker has funnel talents

[swift tinsel]

Heresy

[vale pine]

so dathstalker funnel is better than trickster funnel

thats all to it

[glass kelp]

ds is fun idk why its the boogie man

[swift tinsel]

Bc mark sucks

[runic sinew]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

bring back combo

there i said it

[swift tinsel]

I love just losing the entire engine behind my hero tree

[hazy breach]

The mark can randomly disappear sometimes and you can't get it back, which feels awful

[glass kelp]

the application changes for this xpac are nice, playing that shit in m+ last xpac made me wanna neck half the time

[swift tinsel]

And moving it is extremely annoying

[hazy breach]

I mean it's worse this expac

Not better

[plush roost]

8 target priority damage vs trickster

[tribal blade]

play DS on the paladin boss, i double dare you

[bleak night]

strike nuke pog

[glass kelp]

im hidding behind a box, you cant make me do it

[dapper sigil]

Is this only during lust? Or always

[leaden prairie]

what is strike nuke

[tepid trellis]

always

[leaden prairie]

how do i do the nuke

[vale pine]

always

[wheat edge]

give the launch codes

[plush roost]

U press strike at 3 stacks of unshakable drive

[glass kelp]

tucking me tail then, i thought it looked better

[leaden prairie]

bro give me the nuke tech

[leaden prairie]

wtf is unshakable drive

[hazy breach]

You press strike in dance

[leaden prairie]

why are you guys inventing talents

[tepid trellis]

hero talent

[plush roost]

Ds hero talent

LOL

[leaden prairie]

ye buddy

nice

i believe this is a talent that exist

not fake

[glass kelp]

i was a sin merchant in tww so thats my only pov

for ds at least

[plush roost]

Its 75% strike damage that scales down per use, u gain stacks by popping your mark

So in aoe, strom powder doesnt eat stacks

And strike goes brrr

U just kinda, weave it in

Here and there

[hazy breach]

As you can see above though, its not a gain for overall dps

It's just prio

[plush roost]

Yurr

[tribal blade]

oh i didn't realize that was how that talent worked

[plush roost]

Good for a certain dragon boss encounter mayhaps

[hazy breach]

Neither did we, that's why deathstalker suddenly sims good

[wheat edge]

this subtlety spec is just made up...

[hazy breach]

Because the talent doesn't work like it says it does

[tribal blade]

damn sad

[vale pine]

classic

sadly

[tribal blade]

yeah the way it reads it just gives you more strike dmg on popping a mark

unless i read it wrong

[tribal blade]

in my head it was consume mark>25% strike dmg>consume mark>25%

[fleet wharf]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

i didn't expect them to roll over

[swift tinsel]

Yeah doesn’t read that it stacks

[plush roost]

Cant wait for people to learn MUTILATE NUKE tech

[tribal blade]

that's actually really good for prio holy

[runic sinew]

how can I do that?

[gentle temple]

which delve is the fastest for rogue to get them to lvl8?

[wheat edge]

vanish ambush at 3 stacks

[plush roost]

(You play ds assa and regret it)

[swift tinsel]

Still not over the 20%+ threshold to get me to play it

[tribal blade]

DS sin feels like poop right now

FB feels so much better

[runic sinew]

lol

[hazy breach]

I love calling it a nuke when it's not even doing more than envenom

[plush roost]

Its TECH!!!!!

Rip vicious venoms o7

[wheat edge]

lowkey fatebound sound design alone carries it above poopstalker!!

[glass kelp]

sounds dangerously close to pvp

[mortal snow]

@vale pine Is your sheet updated in the DG section? I remember the sub was at 127k, I don't know if I'm mistaken, if that's the case then it's all good.

[tribal blade]

the spec also flows way better with it

more CP gen is big win

[runic sinew]

LMFAO I read this like "MULTIPLE NUKE"

[tribal blade]

wait so when exactly do you pop your strike

do you hit 3 stacks as DN pops

[keen dome]

my unshakeable drive to not play DS

[plush roost]

U straight up play normally in ST and it just happens occasionally. Theres a bug where apex clones eat stacks

Without being amped

[karmic harbor]

are you guys only playing sub?

do i need to learn outlaw/assa

world 300ish

[tribal blade]

ah gotcha

[vale pine]

dungeon slice still has quite some st in it, so the aoe nerf is not that noticable

[hazy breach]

Yeah theres no gain to be had playing around unshakeable in a sim scenario

[plush roost]

In aoe, storm doesnt eat stacks, so u just track stacks and strike nuke at 3 for prio

[tribal blade]

mmmm sexy

[plush roost]

Yet...

[wheat edge]

oh I thought it would consume all 3 at once

[hazy breach]

You'd think so ye

[wheat edge]

but it just stacks to 3 and then uses 1 at a time anyways

[hazy breach]

Well yesnt

Clones also use up a stack (without double dipping)

[plush roost]

Yeah it works in the best possible way tbh

[hazy breach]

So most of the time you use 2 per strike

[plush roost]

Itd be truly degen if clones didnt eat stacks and got the amp or ate stacks and double dipped

[hazy breach]

Not sure what part of it is bugged tbh

Or rather, whats intended

Just seems like a mess

[plush roost]

Versa value ⤴️

[brisk onyx]

If I remember correctly, this was mentioned during the early development of alpha (probably in some designer interviews).

[hazy breach]

Crit value too

But crit damage

[wheat edge]

but the strike damage is the same at 1 2 or 3 stacks right? or is there something im missing

[hazy breach]

No

3 stacks is more damage

Its 25%, 50%, 75% at 1,2 and 3 stacks respectively

[plush roost]

1 stack 25, 2 50, 3 75

[wheat edge]

so is this 75%

[plush roost]

Ye

[hazy breach]

Yes

[wheat edge]

also I hate how it just says more damage LMAO

[vale pine]

i mean, its not wrong

[steep raven]

As DS if you have Trickster amount of Haste. Do you still macro storm to SD? Or SS with .2 delay? You're not losing a GCD because of this no?

[glass kelp]

fuck this

fatestalker it is

[vale pine]

you would macro storm

ye

which is annoying

or you macro strike with dance

and have a ~0.1 sec delay

which most of the time is still not causing you to drop a gcd

[steep raven]

That's why I specified if you have trickster amount of haste (where you compensate for GdC GCD)

[glass kelp]

blizz lets you track drive stacks on the cdm at least, thats nice

[olive canyon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

You dont really need to though

[hollow spear]

Can we delete the last two hours from this channel and go to back to just memeing about ds

[olive canyon]

Hey just wanted to confirm what each instance of Evis may relate to please -

First is phys i presume

[hazy breach]

Like even if you do want to do the "priomaxxing" thing (which again, is a loss in overall to do) you can achieve pretty much exactly the same results by just pressing strike once in dance, regardless of unshakeable stacks

Phys > Shadowed Finishers > Ancient Arts (apex)

[glass kelp]

gotcha

all comes out in the wash anyways as long as you cash it out once per dance

[fleet wharf]

we still play trickster for raid right?

[glass kelp]

makes sense

[hazy breach]

Again, its a loss to do

You lose aoe damage

[serene sierra]

btw guys are we ballin in single compared to other classes or nah

dont know how other classes perform

[steep raven]

Rogue ballin?

[glass kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/benjammins-basketball-nba-3-point-shot-3-pointer-gif-8162968075058803387

[slate nest]

I feel like I need haste a little instead of dumping everything into mastery

[red vortex]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[serene sierra]

damn

so they wont touch outlaw and sub anymore and buff assa i guess ?

[keen dome]

Who knows

[olive canyon]

in a raid setting, given that there isnt pure ST really, do you swap first dance for say veiltouched and keep potent powders

[slate nest]

assa is dead outside of execute phase (which there is none currently) so i guess that's the thing that will be buffed, or they let assa crash and burn

[glass kelp]

only the fates know what blizz has in mind

[hazy breach]

Probably ye

[olive canyon]

I figure we play that the most if we are going with trickster

thanks eleem

[serene sierra]

btw do we have good funnel ? i never really payed attention tbh

or can we only go full single or full aoe in talents

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker has good funnel

Trickster does not

[upper narwhal]

Our AoE and st talents are almost identical, just a couple nodes move

[serene sierra]

how much more single do we have with more adds

[red vortex]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/talent-builds-pve-dps#raid-build-trickster

yup

Encounters with Adds/AoE:  Weaponmaster →  Potent Powder.
Very short kill timers:  Veiltouched →  The First Dance.
Encounters with slow effects:  Iron Stomach →  Unbreakable Stride.

[olive canyon]

Gotcha, is there a build for the DS version that lets you take potent powders? or do we need to go 1/2 finality to move the point across

[gilded ferry]

[red vortex]

deathstalker have same points i just mentioned

for AoE etc

so WM for PTP

[olive canyon]

All good, in the buildi had saved - i had taken 2/2 finality

[red vortex]

yea its he basic raid build

these are notes added to it on the guide

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker wants 2x finality instead of improved sectech ye

Turns out when every ~4th eviscerate crits and deals massive damage having more crit damage on that is good

[olive canyon]

right im defo dumb and cant see how to grab pp as well as 2/2 finality

[red vortex]

swap Weaponmaster

[gilded ferry]

is desync of sectec expected at some shadow blades window?

[olive canyon]

wont let me put the point in to pp if i remove weaponmaster

[red vortex]

oh ur right

[olive canyon]

i feel like that scene in a beautiful mind

unless its just not possible

[red vortex]

maybe @hazy breach or @vale pine knows

[dusk blaze]

lvling as sub feel ok?

[hazy breach]

Would be the full aoe build for deathstalker

[left ledge]

Why is there so much DS talk

[hazy breach]

But yes you'd drop 1 point from finality for pp

[red vortex]

then wowhead guide iswrong

[plush roost]

Tornado!!!

[hazy breach]

Youre a smart man, surely you can figure it out

[left ledge]

I’m gonna reroll to devourer

[red vortex]

csu u cant swap WM for PP

[hazy breach]

Well thats for raid bosses

[red vortex]

unless u take 1 from finality

[hazy breach]

You can for trickster

[red vortex]

the same text is there for DS

[hazy breach]

Turns out 40% more storm damage makes the point that buffs storm damage better, who couldve known

But you probably wont ever play that

Because if you wanted to do more aoe you wouldnt be playing deathstalker to begin with.

[vale pine]

I can add it as a variation

[red vortex]

trickster does work swapping WM to PP

i mean idm, but could be confusing for the readers

[olive canyon]

right - makes sense

[hazy breach]

If you were playing DS for keys you would probably do it with the knowledge that i am going to be doing less aoe, but higher ST and priority damage

[olive canyon]

i guess pure ST you just go Weapon and 2/2 finality, drop pp and drop tornado

[vale pine]

oh ye you are right

[olive canyon]

yep yep - just messing with builds

[vale pine]

it should be finality

moment, fixed in 2 sec, done

[olive canyon]

Thanks - i was wondering if that second point in finality was better than PP really i guess

ty for the help

[lyric reef]

Whats up with all the DS talks 👀

[steep raven]

How many times do you need to press that for PP to be worth it and if you press it enough times you might aswell be Trickster for that fight

[vale pine]

rl;dr the buffs might have a high impact on it

means it might be the go-to on any single target heavy fight

however, most fights are with adds

[lyric reef]

Ty fuu

[vale pine]

means like 3-4 fights probably look like deathstalker

we will see once raid opens

[olive canyon]

On those fights, say 2nd boss, where it is minimal adds, i guess you go that pure st ds build rather than trying to take tornado etc

[vale pine]

you probably go full st ye

some of the fights, adds probably die too fast too

[raw forum]

With the aoe nerfs and st buffs, do we still do the aoe rotation starting from 2+ targets? Or is it 3+ now?

[hazy breach]

Maybe maybe not

Have to wait until reset to find out

[raw forum]

I will hold my breath

[olive canyon]

with the buff to evis, and the possibility it is only applied to physical element of the spell - wouldnt that still be the same buff to the shadowed and apex portions if they are predicated directly on the physical?

[hazy breach]

They are not predicated directly on the physical

[elfin pendant]

so is it safe to craft a dagger right now without hero crests?

obviously we dont have them

sorry for asking im just hearing mixed answers

[vale pine]

dagger craft is fine, its low risk, but you still take a risk (maybe we see embellishments tuned, maybe outlaw is the play)

[hazy breach]

I do not know why they arent, but they are separate spells with separate values. Which is why theres always bugs with them as they forget to include them for buffs/nerfs/new talents

[olive canyon]

mate that is stupid af

just seems they should directly correlate given it is based on the dmg done of the initial spell

[hazy breach]

Correct

[olive canyon]

i dont code but that sounds infuriating to read

[vale pine]

the way they are set up is a big surface area for bugs

but well

[ornate crystal]

When you say maybe outlaw is the play , I hope thats not the case. I miss the old combat spec so much, this outlaw spec just doesnt work for me personally

[vale pine]

not much we can do

[vale pine]

we will see more tuning, its rly hard to predict anything

[olive canyon]

does unshakeable drive augment our play style in any way for aoe or st?

[hazy breach]

So not only do all the clone effects rob us of the satisfaction of seeing very big crit numbers, theyre also constantly bugged

[hazy breach]

Nop

You just play normally and it does its thing

[tribal blade]

we talking about FW shenanigans again

been a while

[ornate crystal]

Btw Eleem, is stealth and vanish bugged? Everytime I try to vanish and shadowstrike, I cant. I instantly lose my vanish before I can even do any of my stealth abilities

[solid bear]

best stat for dagger craft would be mastery/haste?

[lilac stag]

Good news is offhand ilvl is huge for outlaw.

[hazy breach]

Youre probably vanishing mid global or something and then spamming strike so it auto attacks

[lilac stag]

so it’s a W either way

[hazy breach]

Just wait a bit in between the gcds and it should be fine

But also

It doesnt really matter

[lilac stag]

Haste Crit is you want to use it for outlaw as well

[gilded ferry]

how long until we have AI trained to log review

whos gonna vibecode that

[lilac stag]

as soon as we have the people looking at the faq

[fleet wharf]

why not just have ai play for you at that point

[ornate crystal]

"Hey Google, can you take over and play the most optimal single target rotation this pull for me while I go to the toilet?"

[reef walrus]

inbefore it logs you out and makes an unholy dk

[ornate crystal]

LOL

[coarse raven]

hi, what is the state of sub in raid ? wer'e good or outlaw is the go to ?

[fleet wharf]

"make me experience this emotion called fun"

[gilded ferry]

there is no raid, we dont know

[lilac stag]

Oh the outlaw copium

[gilded ferry]

sin is the sleeper agent this time i see

[lilac stag]

tldr if you have to ask play whatever

[fleet wharf]

hey, i noticed we're all talking about DS sims, we're not playing that in raid cuz we dont have pure ST fights right?

no, like I'm genuinely curious, I dont think i want to deal with marks in raid either

[lilac stag]

what happens when classes with real cleave and everyone else does cleave and your boss dmg is insufficient?

[fleet wharf]

fuck me, I really dont wanna play DS

[lilac stag]

so until we actually see what’s needed for adds plan on being flexible

DS ST dmg stonks on the rise

and you get the F word

[fleet wharf]

idk, surely assa will get a buff before mythic week

[lilac stag]

Why would it?

[fleet wharf]

cuz they're way down on meters rn, i feel blizz might throw them a bone or 3 to keep their favorite rogue spec happy

[spiral sierra]

Assa feels fine once it ramps

key word ramps

[lilac stag]

down on meter or down on a sim

[fleet wharf]

if you only look at the last 35% of boss life, assa is on top

[fleet wharf]

you know what, fair point, but surely sims are 100% accurate and never wrong

[vestal escarp]

Surely this wont be a scenario

They nerfed rog cleave cause it's too strong!

[lilac stag]

Assa will literally come down to timings and execute windows

[lilac stag]

Year of the Pirate

https://tenor.com/view/garr-dodgeball-steve-pirate-average-joes-gif-3667612

[vestal escarp]

🐴 🏴‍☠️

[lilac stag]

And they buffed ST (and depending what those numbers actually turn into on live) 📈

good for raid, sadge for m+

[vestal escarp]

I was sarcastic

And anyway

The last tuning for sub is lost on me

I watched some beta keys on twitch

[lilac stag]

I know. Others won’t.

[vestal escarp]

It wasnt nerf warranting

[thorny ridge]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[lilac stag]

our aoe was disgusting

[wild vine]

Agreed

[vestal escarp]

Hm i watched the wrong guys in the wrong moments

[lilac stag]

Have to watch the non 2 button streamers

or the BP macro streamers

[wild vine]

I dont think flurry had to be nerfed or the bp talent tho

[lilac stag]

Flurry is sad.

BP they don’t know what to do with it

[vestal escarp]

Flurry is now similar to what was planned at the beginning

And not just blade flurry

(at the beginning it was just sectech dmg )

[toxic oar]

anyone knows how much agi you gain when arcanoweave lining embelish procs?

[wild vine]

Ye its kinda weird. Nerfing BP itself was justified, but going for the talent aswell is probably overkill

[lilac stag]

Which is hilarious with the random TWW BP buffs in it’s history

[wild vine]

But hey, maybe they fixed some bugs

And we gain something back

[simple locust]

"You do not need to empower your non-cleaving Darkest Night :Eviscerate:s in big AoE, so the line right above this should be ignored (and thus not procced with :ShurikenStorm:). "
i dont understand the "non-cleaving" aspect, how can evis cleave?
(new to "modern" rogue, have only played trickster and want to prepare ds for raid st)

[keen dome]

they're gonna buff it, I can feel it

[lilac stag]

it’s ok. Assa and Outlaw can flurry everything

[wild vine]

Nah, sub as the m+ spec is quality time

Always enjoy it

[short aurora]

does the "Coup de grace" buff not exist? or am i that blind

its just 4 escalating blades

[hazy breach]

It cant

Thats why you dont want to do that on big aoe

[lilac stag]

I just need my 3k then sink into weekly vault mode

[hazy breach]

Idk im just trying to be overly clear on what to do but ig that confuses people too

[simple locust]

ok, since for now it looks like we'll be tricksters for anything that has adds, it wont be a factor anyway i guess?

[golden totem]

You can show your eviscerate on cdm it will turn into coup if you don't wanna track the stacks

[wild vine]

I will probably push this season, but I'm also getting a dk and mage ready just to be sure

[lilac stag]

Remove it. Add at 5+ just storm

Idk

[lilac stag]

I struggle to see a world where our aoe is already getting nerfed and no utility besides a poison ending well for pushing

[wild vine]

Ye kinda rough unless they will change more in the next weeks

Sin might get a bump

[lilac stag]

Meanwhile warriors are still bitching about no utility

[wild vine]

Who knows

[lilac stag]

Assa funnel party in keys

[wild vine]

Ngl removing aoe blind was a sad move

Taking away even more

[lilac stag]

bullshit move

[hollow spear]

Hello guys, I'm new to sub rogue. I have read all the guides and the FAQ and have a question: do we use shadowstrike in aoe?

[lilac stag]

Only backstab

[wild vine]

I only shiv

[vestal escarp]

I have harsher words but me do me

[wild vine]

Same, but wont change anything either

And I try to be a kinder person

[lilac stag]

ah a sht stack building enjoyer I see.

[hazy breach]

Didnt they get the intervene external, have multiple aoe stops (shockwave+fear), spear, rally and battle shout?

Maybe spear isnt taken

[lilac stag]

They can’t take spear afaik

They also have that speed shout shit

yet NO m+ utility

[vestal escarp]

No utility

But rog can stop a mob for 7 whole seconds!!!!

[wild vine]

Dont forget the poisons

[lilac stag]

I’m just going to assume no one at blizzard plays a rogue in keys past a +6

[hazy breach]

Tbf its way longer than 7 seconds, but yeah its a singular mob and it requires a lot of attention and costs a lot of dps

And presumably theres truesight on every mob we want to skip like the last 2 expansions

So shroud aint useful either

We cant even have our shroudspeed without giving up big defensives now

[lilac stag]

certainly looked like it in m0

[swift tinsel]

Den bridge was the only part that felt like shroud might be useful for kinda-maybe-sorta

[wild vine]

Surely our damage will turn out to be insane

[hazy breach]

Well thats not this season

[fleet wharf]

it's ok, they gave us smokescreen in cata, that's still useful right?

[hazy breach]

So theyll add truesight to it for next season

[swift tinsel]

either too many truesight mobs or the packs just had shitters that weren't really important to skip

[lilac stag]

I think that’s going to be pull counted or fixed when it’s actually in m+

[swift tinsel]

yeah

would not be surprised in the slightest

[steep raven]

It's called Darkness nowadays

[swift tinsel]

bc there's not a ton of density in that whole dungeon besides a handful of places

[lilac stag]

the routing is just too linear

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[lilac stag]

which I get. Make tanking easier

[fleet wharf]

I thought purple was a sub rogue thing, i guess I'm just mistaken

[slender kraken]

would it be worth crafting double wep tommowo?

[lilac stag]

THEN FUCKING GIVE US UTILITY.

[swift tinsel]

first section they're all kinda spread out or you're pulling two spirit guides, second section is decent, freezy section is ass, then bridge

[honest void]

the real utility is the friends we make along the way

so they allow us into their keys

[hazy breach]

No

[swift tinsel]

is Den even in s1?

[lilac stag]

There are no friends in LFG

[hazy breach]

No

[slender kraken]

ok thank you

[swift tinsel]

I 100% don't remember what midnight dungeons are in the rotation

[swift tinsel]

ah then shroud is 100% useless lmao

[hazy breach]

Offhand is the least important slot. Crafting mainhand is good though

[wild vine]

Can skip the freezing section because they dont have truesight, but the Wind....

[lilac stag]

LFG friends are trade chat comedians.

[swift tinsel]

there's also like nothing to skip in freezy section

[lilac stag]

You’re also expecting tanks to know “shroud” routes. Glhf

[swift tinsel]

yeah I know a few that straight up won't learn a diff route for shroud

[honest void]

expecting tanks to know shroud still exists

[swift tinsel]

(if it were ever useful lol)

[lilac stag]

Mechagon failure rate with 2nd to last pack.

[swift tinsel]

god that was so cursed lmao

[lilac stag]

always a fucking mage

ALWAYS

@wild vine I wish you luck on your pushy pushy. 🫶🏻

[swift tinsel]

mages are just built different (incorrectly)

outside of a handful

[wild vine]

I got the feeling I will stop at some point after getting ptsd from you guys rn

But thanks

I once thought the solution to not having a stupid mage would be to be the mage

But who wants to be the mage?

[lilac stag]

Sorry for the ptsd

[lilac stag]

Be the stupid DH/K

[wild vine]

DK looks kinda alright to play, dunno where it ends up with the big nerf

Probably still best melee

[lilac stag]

If you listen to them it’s unplayable now

[wild vine]

Everyone is so overly dramatic these days

[lilac stag]

Yeah imagine shutting down your discord for attention (and getting it)

[shy ermine]

for the apex trickster optimisation it's worth up to 3 targets, and recommends we cast shadowstrike to proc it before finishing. why is this recommendation not shuriken storm to proc instead as it's better on 3 targets?

[chilly kite]

50% higherthan every other dps, gets 20% nerf, its over man we are doa unplayable... so dk is just more ret pally lol

[granite river]

frost DK cleave slaps, DK players actually just hunter brains in disguise

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hazy breach]

But also, shuriken storm is better on 3 targets because it gives more combo points than strike

If you are at full combo points already

Only the damage matters

[shy ermine]

gotcha, thank you

[fathom adder]

is that DN or supercharge line new?

[shy ermine]

has that changed since a week or so ago? thought it was trickster only

[hazy breach]

Yes

[lilac stag]

Things change quickly here

[chilly kite]

so do we shuriken storm in aoe? i'm still lost on that one

[shy ermine]

so target count isn't relevant anymore

[hazy breach]

Yes

[wild vine]

They really do doom and say dk is mid now

Just checked discord

[hazy breach]

Idk where anything is saying to not use shuriken storm in aoe

[chilly kite]

its just plate wearers mental

[grim vessel]

Arms wars are justified in their dooming

Too many years of being good in pvp

[chilly kite]

just doing mythics myself and another rogue were switching back and fourth between either storm or just strike and black powder, and the strike + black powder seemed to do significantly higher, but it coulda just been rng

[wild vine]

Ye idk, my guilds dk peaked 350k and held 240k on the 5T dummies

[hazy breach]

Storm is just way better

[iron whale]

guys how can you play without vigor and thistle tea?
without those I'm CONSTANTLY out of energy for anything

[chilly kite]

ima sin rogue for years, so first season as subt in forever

[lilac stag]

I try to not spread misinformation like @short radish

[iron whale]

after 1 shuriken storm

[wild vine]

The reason why I never play warrior anymore. Arms best warr spec but always bad

[grim vessel]

Arms is the only spec to me that FEELS like you're using a big 2h for big hits

[lilac stag]

You’re not. You’re overstated in dance and that’s the only time energy matters

[hazy breach]

Are you in melee hitting the mobs with auto attacks?

[chilly kite]

I mean lets be honest, if we ever saw a 20% damage nerf to all damage, we'd be dooming too. i think every dps class would be, until actually playing post nerf

[wild vine]

True. Oblit fdk sometimes does too, but not to the same degree

[wild vine]

Nah the regulars usually wouldnt even in that case

[willow knoll]

I wouldn't be dooming if I was an unholy DK.

[grim vessel]

This is midnight in a nutshell. I doomed hard on arcane feeling like a shell of itself, design-wise. Idc where the numbers end up

[lilac stag]

So like a 15% nerf to AOE after an 8% aura nerf?

[willow knoll]

Did they even see their damage before-hand.

I know they did because people monitor that shit like the CIA.

[fleet wharf]

it was only 50k

[willow knoll]

Like they were grossly overtuned lol

[grim vessel]

Nah they just skill gapped every other class

[wild vine]

I personally am kinda neutral on arcane. I like how it feels with arcane pulse

[willow knoll]

They were actually so overtuned that I think less of anyone playing the class during that time period let alone someoen dooming now over getting the nerf.

On a value judgement level

Like imagine the type of person you are IRL

idk man

[swift tinsel]

pulse def an upgrade over explosion, having to be in melee ever felt bad when you wanted to be further out for barrage travel time

[wild vine]

Yeah and it looks pretty cool. Tho coming from rogue, most animations feel cool ig

[swift tinsel]

lmao based af

maybe that's why I went bananas over Frantic Frenzy for feral lol

it actually looks like stuff happening

[grim vessel]

Sunfury wasn't using explosion in tww though. Had a super fun (albeit fairly easy) rotation with good flow

[willow knoll]

Idk why they can't just give rogue some cool animations.

[fleet wharf]

tbh that just straight up looks cooler than what we have with sec tech

[willow knoll]

They almost got it with sectec

[lilac stag]

Outlaw says hello

[swift tinsel]

it existed before tww

for a very long time

[lilac stag]

BR animation is great

[willow knoll]

Does Outlaw have cool animations?

[swift tinsel]

and felt bad for a very long time

[wild vine]

But its outlaw, so

[chilly kite]

i think our sectek should be the animation the lightspawn guys in harindar have when you cast it, if you pickpocket them and turn into them.

[grim vessel]

Right but they changed it now, not a long time ago

[lilac stag]

Tumbleweed makes me laugh so that’s a 🇼

[grim vessel]

They had fixed the issue, then they unfixed it

To make a worse fix

[swift tinsel]

the fact you aren't forced into melee is the upgrade

as ranged

[lilac stag]

Dino Clones goes hard for sub

[willow knoll]

Outlaw gets a move where they slash really fast and have a yellow trail on their weapon?

[wild vine]

I really dont know if I wanna alt unholy or arcane. Both equally fotm but there probably are way more dks

[wild vine]

I kinda like KS

[grim vessel]

Whereas the most recent iteration before this, wasn't playing around melee explosion while still being fun. So blizz reverted to an older version WITH this issue and decided to come up with a less fun way around it

[swift tinsel]

unholy still owns from an rp standpoint, full necromancy was the way to go

[lilac stag]

If you can max it, go mage. Soooooo many are shit

[willow knoll]

I also think eviscerate looks goofy.

[swift tinsel]

but also removed any hooks where being in melee was a possibility

[willow knoll]

Idk why but doing a spinning dagger attack is weird

[chilly kite]

has anyone made an addon that acts like the range check weak aura? to help with our short arms.

[swift tinsel]

zoom out

[grim vessel]

Hit boxes feel crazy inconsistent

[sage ivy]

Wildu tools has it

[wild vine]

The thing is that I wouldnt need to learn ranged stuff for dk and farming gear is quicker if you can just spec tank

[fleet wharf]

wildutools has a melee range checker

[chilly kite]

thx do i need the shared media with it

[wild vine]

Arcane has the better profile tho and most are shit

[sage ivy]

Nop afaik

[grim vessel]

Is arcane the play for mage rn? Seems everyone is going frost since its the new bm

[chilly kite]

just downloaded it, gonna check it out when i finish working. feel like this kinda thing should just be default for the damn game at this point.

[sage ivy]

It sort of is since abilities get red but yeah agreed. Its just another point on a massive list of missing qol and functionality tho

[wild vine]

Looks like it so far

[lilac stag]

True

[wild vine]

I know what to do. I will just let the vault decide since I will mostly play rogue in the first few weeks anyways

[chilly kite]

i'm sure i'm not alone in saying, i hope there was enough negative feedback, for us to never, ever get 3 weeks of M0 again.

farming gear that is instantly replaced is just cringe

[wild vine]

Idk I think its pretty fine for a first season

Plenty time to level your alts

The renown stuff luckily was fast this time

[chilly kite]

forcing alt gameplay is just not fun for some of us

i hate alts.

[hazy breach]

That happened in tww too so probably not

[wild vine]

Its not forced, its just an option

[swift tinsel]

I just played RE9 and got profession alts going lol

[grim vessel]

Just play less

[chilly kite]

i played 1 day this week lol

[grim vessel]

I loved it since this is an underwhelming xpack imo

[drifting zinc]

I mean realistically what do you suggest blizzard does. Conform to the few people who dont play alts?

[lilac stag]

It’s just the start of the expansion to let people get ready. It’s fine. Play alts. Do achievements in zones. w/e

[swift tinsel]

got up to 5 90's for the xp boost when timewalking comes around to level the rest of the alt army

got enough consumes for the first couple weeks of raid

bing chilling

[lilac stag]

S2/3 don’t have the same delay

[wild vine]

Guy in my guild got the kill all rares and catch all butterflies achievements yesterday

[fleet wharf]

comparison is the thief of joy

[swift tinsel]

pretty locked in on rogue and dh for the tier

got the dk druid and monk set for shenanigans

[wild vine]

Rogue monk dk mage for me

Tho I still need to finish the mage this week

[swift tinsel]

mw will be my healing alt if I get the hankering for it

can tank on dh dk monk and druid

[fleet wharf]

I also wanna try monk but I can't stand the thought of going through the leveling grind again

[swift tinsel]

I just did calamitous and delve turn-in

granted I had +20% xp at the time lol

[wild vine]

Is that doable on dps aswell?

Or just tanks

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah

though brewmaster is cracked for it

can use ox statue to pull the two packs of bigguns off to the right while you grab the ones on the ridge to the left

set transedence near statue and port back and reposition ox statue then blow everything up

but I did it unholy on my dk and nuked it all

mouseover Outbreak macro, grip the casters if you need to

[wild vine]

Sounds wild. I just spammed dungeons for 4 levels, did one campaign+some sides, crafts and delves

[swift tinsel]

crafting is super slept on for leveling early

[fleet wharf]

isnt it better to save it for 89?

[swift tinsel]

idk how it scales