So safe bet to start the week still as trickster in raid?
#subtlety
pastel grove
warm marlin
yep
narrow shadow
As trickster outlaw
mighty citrus
guys will next id m0 drop championtrack?
pastel grove
Outlaw over sub for raid?
narrow shadow
Sin op after the buffs
warm marlin
guys will next id m0 drop championtrack?
yes
willow pawn
Best rogue spec rn is Marksmenship
hazy breach
Play deathstalker and cope about funnel 
stuck arrow
Sin op after the buffs
Just make sure you prebuff with the Whyspur sammich.
warm marlin
Are you sure? I don't think so
unless lariat guy is a liar
willow pawn
Play deathstalker and cope about funnel <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
if your mark even works. (it doesnt)
warm marlin
its daily lockout 246 champ track 1/6
stuck arrow
if your mark even works. (it doesnt)
I still don't understand why you can't just apply to new target after like a 5 or 10s internal CD.
narrow shadow
its daily lockout 246 champ track 1/6
Source?
stuck arrow
Feel like should be easy to implement... But alas.
rustic warren
so outside of "play what you want" want does rouge actually bring to m+? on the fence between my DH and Rouge
willow pawn
I still don't understand why you can't just apply to new target after like a 5 o...
Because that would make too much sense
alpine wraith
so outside of "play what you want" want does rouge actually bring to m+? on the...
that is a sad comparison
rogue kinda does nothing better
well we can vanish if there is a wipe
short radish
I still don't understand why you can't just apply to new target after like a 5 o...
If only we had it as a separate button. They could call it marked for death
lucid jackal
so outside of "play what you want" want does rouge actually bring to m+? on the...
Damage and posi vibes
shrewd lantern
so outside of "play what you want" want does rouge actually bring to m+? on the...
well one is a color
willow pawn
so outside of "play what you want" want does rouge actually bring to m+? on the...
it brings cool visuals like shadow clones (cant even see them)
short radish
so outside of "play what you want" want does rouge actually bring to m+? on the...
Distract
stuck arrow
If only we had it as a separate button. They could call it marked for death
Still have PTSD from actual mfd that was either useless or you got to cast nothing but finishers ever.
short radish
Still have PTSD from actual mfd that was either useless or you got to cast nothi...
Woooo shitter version of mfd
stuck arrow
perks: you dont have to be an elf
Come on, everyone wants to be an elf.
rustic warren
alright so rouge for pvp and dh for pve it is
shrewd lantern
hope you like playing rmp buddy
narrow shadow
so outside of "play what you want" want does rouge actually bring to m+? on the...
More fun to play and doesn't look like a bit fat illidan
stuck arrow
perks: you dont have to be an elf
If I can't rp as Legolas I don't want it.
rustic warren
i play body type 1 elf
narrow shadow
Well it's a matter of taste in the end
No need to flame anyone
Or be toxic about it
stuck arrow
why would anyone play male elf
I mean it's either that or KulTiran guy in a chain-kini. I don't make the rules, I just follow them.
shrewd lantern
I mean it's either that or KulTiran guy in a chain-kini. I don't make the rules,...
ok the second one is based
warped fox
I play a blood elf male, but theyve always been kind of girly
shrewd lantern
a night elf has made it to the fire
rustic warren
BE male has some of the worst animations
stuck arrow
I'm also a fan of Lady NElfs. Just bring that 6'2 dommy mommy energy, ya know?
warped fox
👀
hazy breach
Chubby panda
shrewd lantern
honestly panda animations are fire
shrewd lantern
once you get past stretching every belt
stuck arrow
Also a great choice is male tauren.
Just straight up the most superior choice for stealth I can imagine. Clip clop, ya know?
And - you get an AoE stop button.
dire jolt
I actually really love my male void elf rogue
If not for the chin clipping issues he'd be perfect
quartz mantle
are we using evis for SnD before cooldowns on the opener?
hazy breach
No need
plush roost
how are you guys learning the boss fights
cursive vapor
No need to flame anyone
play what you like, some ppl take your race choice too serious 👌
plush roost
https://store.steampowered.com/app/4285470/Vellum_Raid_Night_Study_Hall/
This was a cool little thing i sent to a friend to learn raid on
eternal wave
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
shrewd lantern
all im saying is the most frequent brickers i run into are male elf players
crude radish
https://store.steampowered.com/app/4285470/Vellum_Raid_Night_Study_Hall/
Is this updated for midnight fights?
shrewd lantern
This was a cool little thing i sent to a friend to learn raid on
i guess this is for the voidspire bosses?
well its march 9th
so i would assume
plush roost
Yeah its current
Doesnt have alleria or falls obv
I kinda had to stop dps on some fights
But eh
Was fun little refresher
tulip light
does anyone have a source if a full guild grp can q lfr ?
shrewd lantern
by faction
plush roost
Faction locked but yep
shrewd lantern
so the horde rats stuck
tulip light
ok thanks! is there a post or w/e i can link my RL
shrewd lantern
ok thanks! is there a post or w/e i can link my RL
does the guy not have access to grok
?
warm marlin
lfr tier = mythic tier with the new cata system 
plush roost
lfr tier = mythic tier with the new cata system <:hmmge:1128012609417920562>
Still dont know the drop rate!
stuck arrow
Dude lfr going to be popping first few days. Might have higher pink parses than normal.
spare bobcat
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
paper panther
How exactly does nimble flurry works and why does it do a lot more damage when i do my single target rotation on cleave dummies then when I do my aoe rotation?
hazy breach
Are you ignoring coup de graces while doing your aoe rotation
runic sinew
What deathstalker need to be great like Trickster for m+?
chrome palm
god
unreal juniper
is there even an instance where trickster is not used on any raid bosses besides salhadaar
chrome palm
the instance where you dont care about aoe damage
vale osprey
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
still gazelle
I thought trickster was BiS for most content?
spiral needle
yes, because most content has aoe
peak flax
Would Deathstalker be preferable in PVP or still just run trickster?
gentle sonnet
Would Deathstalker be preferable in PVP or still just run trickster?
trickster, cause of fazing
peak flax
That's what I was thinking too. But I wasn't sure if Mark ended up out damaging faze
gentle sonnet
it depends, but for arena you want to use trickster for fazing and the increased crit chance on your fazed target
peak flax
It's a little difficult to find much information on pvp unfortunately
peak flax
Oh I hadn't heard of that. I'm just recently getting back into wow after a few years
wide shale
is the bloodlust only logic gone for the AA tech
gentle sonnet
depends, but even without bloodlust you should still be stacking STs pretty quickly
plush roost
the instance where you dont care about aoe damage
Follow the blood 60% bp clear the witnesses 80% storm
warm marlin
is the bloodlust only logic gone for the AA tech
supercharger/dn only now
plush roost
Lock it in
warm marlin
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
fiery summit
Shadow dance “up” meaning active right?
As opposed to “up” meaning off cooldown ready to use
native quail
is this true?
hazy breach
Maybe
valid ocean
naw its a lie
hazy breach
Depends on how they buff
warm marlin
Shadow dance “up” meaning active right?
yes
you can't cast shadowstrike while not in dance
fiery summit
Oh yeah lmao
peak flax
So one thing I've not understood is why would I go down Vanish Cap for pvp instead of CBK? Is it just for the extra reset?
chrome palm
Follow the blood 60% bp clear the witnesses 80% storm
Stop 😭
fiery summit
short radish
Till our st rotation is storm powder gloomblade
Wont be complete until shiv is in there
fiery summit
And detection
short radish
keen crag
vanish pickpocket jump three times
fiery summit
Imagine if they made like a legendary rogue only trinket that you had to lock pick mid combat to activate
Peak class fantasy
short radish
vanish pickpocket jump three times
AHHHHHHHHHHH NOT TRANSMITTER
short radish
Imagine if they made like a legendary rogue only trinket that you had to lock pi...
Do the world quest you gotta move around to have no lines connected
hazy breach
Not the lorgok puzzles 💀
upper narwhal
hey quick dumb question, I dont need to use any crests to craft farstriders mercy max quality right?
short radish
hey quick dumb question, I dont need to use any crests to craft farstriders merc...
Not yet.
fiery summit
Just sparks will get you a 259 wep
upper narwhal
does the quality of the embelishhment or the missive matter?
fiery summit
I mean that many crafters exploited to max profs I had blacksmiths offering to make my dagger with their own mats no conc 
shrewd lantern
I mean i figured that was the case
wasnt sure how many could make r5 with silver missives atp
cerulean mirage
Will sub still be a strong class when it comes to m+ ?
proper eagle
So now we can choose DS for pure ST!
And play Trickster for cleave.
split schooner
is the stormarion assault wq just absolutely cooked or something, it never completes
fiery summit
You gotta be there for every stage
If you miss the start you won’t get credit
From my experience
shrewd lantern
world events in midnight are so good
stormarion like that
abundance is a lag fiesta
sweet moss
has anyone got all char sims doc?
split schooner
ive done whole event 3 times now and stuck at 66%, annoying af as i need the rep
fast flax
hello is trickster still at the top for all content right?
tulip light
what change did i miss that made 2x 85 secondary enchant on wep better than 1x mastery procc?
hazy breach
theyre the same
But the reason it changed is because it was previously bugged in simc to not properly get doubled if you had 2x of them
shrewd lantern
wait is it no longer rendorei
hazy breach
Agility one yes
tulip light
ah wait im stupid there are different rendoreis lol
fiery summit
Wait so 2x agi enchants now? Guide doesn’t seem to have been updated yet; still says mastery OH
fiery summit
Roger
lucid jackal
Litwerally
bleak night
mawwaige is wat bwings us togewer today
neon locust
in this situ you hold sd and st for blades right?
north garnet
in this situ you hold sd and st for blades right?
yes
neon locust
great thanks
waxen lintel
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like 
WoWhead or 
Icy Veins.
swift tinsel
was just doing it earlier today, was normal
swift tinsel
the whole trick is to just kill everything really fast and cycle runs quickly
I've leveled most my alts doing that and its quick
crystal atlas
How accurate are those Sims icy veins dropped?
faint quail
the whole trick is to just kill everything really fast and cycle runs quickly
ya im at 40% now, when i asked was at 16% lol
think i was just over analyzing
proper eagle
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
lol the only way to make money with enchanting
spare quiver
"First Craft: A 1h weapon with an embellishment. You should craft it now for a boost going into N/H week then recraft it with Myth Crests on the 24/25th. If you do this, you only need to hold 80 Veteran Crests " Guys do u think this is right for sub?
hard trellis
deathstalker good now or sub still cooked
lost rampart
We only use Shadowstrike at max CP while we have Supercharged CPs for AA right? The rest of duration of SD is played normally?
young heart
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
gilded thistle
does this look normal for a few mins of single target dummy?
just making sure I'm not missing something major
spiral needle
run a dummy sim and compare
rustic geyser
if you smack something for 5 minutes and feel like you might be missing a bind, you're probably good, we just don't got that many things to do anymore 😛
gilded thistle
aiite lol. I haven't played sub since I was a 39 twink in 2009 so idk what anything is supposed to be really
young path
did nimble flurry get nerfed?
swift tinsel
Soon
young path
65% down to 50%... but melee increased by 15%... soooo
that then cleaves
is that an actual nerf? lol
spiral needle
it's still a net loss
young path
make it make sense
swift tinsel
Number go down more than number go up
spiral needle
that nimble flurry change is more like a 25% nerf
plush roost
If we go from 100 to 115 but cleave 50% of that we have 62.5
If we cleave 65 of 100 we have 65
spiral needle
the BP change is the real pain though
young path
ty
swift tinsel
The backstab buff is my favorite ngl
compact rune
ds now oh boy
spiral needle
they're gonna come for your tier
swift tinsel
I'm sure they will
spiral needle
its more intuitive that way though
either way is gonna result in too many people on one token or not
night sluice
It's gonna make pugs where the leader don't bring their armor class even more common
compact rune
It's gonna make pugs where the leader don't bring their armor class even more co...
hey thats exactly what i do on my alts amen
spiral needle
just be a plucky rogue raid leader, everyone loves those
melee pure with mid damage and a debuff that only matters on mythic, big value
strong crypt
/cast Ninja loot warglavies
spiral needle
some people cant have a schedule around specific times, just the way it goes
shrewd lantern
though this is a net loss overall since our main competition was dragons and dps warriors for tier
night sluice
I work 24/7 three-shift, I can't raid on set times so pugging is my only option
shrewd lantern
yeah but pretty sure they dont do tier changes with pugs in mind
strong crypt
Just dont pay your bills so you can raid bro its pretty simple
shrewd lantern
I probably would just quit since
warped fox
Isnt that why we have catalyst though
night sluice
Guess I got to be the pug leader that don't take other leather users 🤣
warped fox
I lfr bc i like shooting myself in the foot and get tier that way
shrewd lantern
didnt they buff catalyst
spiral needle
didnt they buff catalyst
if you get 4 set, catalyst charges start dropping from misc content, so you can let charges rip instead of sweating tracks
strong crypt
from what i understand sub is still bis after 17th changes ? the outlaw sims are pretty inaccurate historically?
spiral needle
outlaw is likely better for M+, but raid is still up in the air
warped fox
Nah thats spoiler bar, trust
shrewd lantern
watch the droprate be poop
spiral needle
historically daggers are a safe bet if you only care about raid though
i doubt assassination is going to get left at the bottom
shrewd lantern
i feel like this conversation is had every tier
outlaw high on patchwerk sim
"wow outlaw so good"
raid drops:
spiral needle
yea but sub is very different in midnight while outlaw is still outlaw more or less
shrewd lantern
it still has burst aoe
spiral needle
and assassination is...where it's at
shrewd lantern
which is typically how aoe works in raid
spiral needle
yea, but it had extreme burst AoE that you could hold CDs for without losing ST before midnight
shrewd lantern
its still very good aoe
spiral needle
im leaning towards sub being the go to still though
shrewd lantern
depends how it lines up
spiral needle
but we haven't seen final boss so who knows
shrewd lantern
the dragon boss has a big add spawn
so could be good for sub
i forget if they kept the higher key vault change
or not
spiral needle
one where you wanted to do keys past 10?
shrewd lantern
the one where its not as grief to take an m+ vault
after the first 2 weeks
yeah that one
spiral needle
it got axed thankfully
spiral needle
doubt blizzard wants the headache of trying to balance specs past +10s
probably why they axed it
shrewd lantern
are we though?
north garnet
Im counting on 10s first week no problem honestly
shrewd lantern
idr if we had champ gear before keys in tww s1
north garnet
tho i have time ^^
spiral needle
daily M0s + heroic gear + several weeks of crests
unless they are crazy overtuned
10s in S1 tww were pretty rough as I recall
I don't remember what content was availble before it though
strong crypt
pretty sure 10s week one is standard if you dont chimp out
spiral needle
S2 and S3 10s were very easy compared though
north garnet
Cant wait for keys first week
spiral needle
S1 they blanket nerfed M+ damage and HP by like 10% or something I think?
gilded thistle
243 goes hard asf
plush roost
I think beta 10s scaled you to 243 ilvl and they were a breeze so
plush roost
Probably fine this time
shrewd lantern
idr
plush roost
No
shrewd lantern
i was a chimpanzee in s2 first week
plush roost
They opened with mythic raid
plush roost
And m0 only gave vet gear
shrewd lantern
yeah bounty delve was good first week besides
plush roost
It was just hella cursed gearing
plush roost
I miss ritual knife
Delve trinkets just havent hit since
Energy drink in s2 as well..
shrewd lantern
there was another delve trinket in s2 that was really good
gilded thistle
what's the protocol for using 2 min trinks?
do we pop on cd, or wait to line it up?
fervent dragon
Did I read correctly that deathstalker is ahead in sims again?
frosty sinew
for pure st yes
gilded thistle
gdi i dont wanna play deathstalker
frosty sinew
raid has very little pure st so who knows if it'll actually be played much
fervent dragon
At what point does it become trickster again I guess is the real question.
frosty sinew
warped fox
Im not even going to swap out of trickster tbh
young heart
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fervent dragon
I assume deathstalker dungeon slice sims are significantly worse than trickster
lilac stag
what's the protocol for using 2 min trinks?
Treat it like a 3 minute trinket
gilded thistle
figured
plush roost
I assume deathstalker dungeon slice sims are significantly worse than trickster
Yeah about 50k dps behind in mass aoe
crystal quiver
Does it matter mainhand vs offhand enchant?
plush roost
Does it matter mainhand vs offhand enchant?
You enchant both, doesnt matter if 2 diff enchants
plush roost
is anyone useing vetran cretrs to craft a weapon
Almost nobody except people doing splits on tuesday tbh
And they arent using vet for a weapon unless its an offhand theyre turbo lucky with loot elsewhere
valid yarrow
guys, are we getting nerfed or bugged in general?
runic sinew
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fading vector
damn is it really that close between outlaw and sub in raid?
plush roost
guys, are we getting nerfed or bugged in general?
St up, aoe down probably s good thing as a raider, bad as an m+er
valid yarrow
don't get why nerfing the aoe, i'm always getting humiliated by almost any dps class
specially demon locks, mages and dks
lilac stag
any dps, and proceeds to mention the 3 best dps classes.
And if you’re getting humiliated in m0s you’re doing something terribly wrong
warm marlin
if they werent playing specifically udk i was quite literally nearly doubling everyone else
sub is insane rn
in m0*
lilac stag
I swear we’re living in bizarro world half the time in here
warm marlin
also when we played triple sub in one of our split runs it was omega fast comparatively
feral viper
what are you guys finishing at overall wise at the end of a m0 run ?
overall dps wise*
still depot
It depends how the dungeon is pulled
feral viper
very true
strong crypt
50-60K Overall
shrewd lantern
next week
feral viper
i hit 230k on the last pull of BV earlier.. but my overalls have been 50-55k
just asking cause im new to rogue so wanna make sure im doing ok
still depot
You be fine.
feral viper
my leather stack guild run each week unfortunately has our worst tank who chain pulls like 2 mobs at a time
so ive been stressing my dps, but in reality.. its him lol
still depot
Stress about family. Work. But you should never stress over dps
feral viper
Single, Winters off, New Expansion. DPS stress is all that matters these days 😂
fading vector
It’s something you’ll also just get better at the more you play
strong crypt
yeah if anyone ever does more damage than you its because they are unemployed and havent showered. personally i showered 10x a day for 3 weeks before the xpac dropped so i wouldnt have to shower when it was out, min maxing irl
feral viper
ahaha
fading vector
What class did you play before?
feral viper
last season ele, season before enhance
vdh also
im just in the getting my muscle memory down phase of sub rogue currently
granite kelp
if they werent playing specifically udk i was quite literally nearly doubling ev...
yeah im only 180 ilvl rn and doing the same dps as 230-240 ppl in m0. granted that is m0 though so no guarantee people know how to play their class
valid yarrow
50-60K Overall
really? what's your ilvl
tribal blade
what're the exact numbers on our 2p and 4p gain
ember hound
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lusty gazelle
!FUU
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
potent heath
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hushed roost
man ds feels so weird
brisk onyx
Just go trickster
hushed roost
prob will lose the 2% just messing up darkest night/aa anyway lol
cyan saddle
question.... for cleave fights in raid like imperator, are we gonna be basically running the m+ build with Potent Powder?
brisk onyx
2% isn't a huge difference at all; just use whichever you prefer. There are no boss design like Patchwerk right now
regal current
I swear we’re living in bizarro world half the time in here
i didnt lose a single aoe pull ever on my sub rogue man and people acting like we're gonna be bottom of the pack now
its crazy
spiral needle
Can't really judge M+ damage by non-seasonal M0 damage
hollow compass
do i still have to individually press my trinket before i use my sblades macro
or can i just macro it all together
regal current
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.
hollow compass
i saw someone mention having to trinket before u use ur cd macro
spiral needle
you don't use haste trinket with dance and sec tech is what it is
cause it needs a server tick so that they get the benefit of the haste
spiral needle
you can haste trinket with blades
you just dont want dance and sec tech in that same macro
hollow compass
what about everything except trinket
and just trinket before
ive been using the sectec blades dance macro
surely that works
frosty sinew
it should work ye
spiral needle
it should work yea
rain stratus
I mean, evis is your 4th or 5th global in your opener. So depending on your definition of the length of the opener, it’s there.
iron obsidian
you talkin m+?
because what i would do is while tank is gathering throw an evis out on a mob to get snd
and then never worry about snd for the rest of the dungeon
ember hound
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
i dont bother
it's worth doing in M+ while the tank is gathering
since you're not sending anything immediately
if it's a pull that's gathered insta then yeah just go straight into cds
actually i dunno about that since you only get snd from coup in aoe, so i'd probably still evis first
then storm>cds
mental saffron
How does Coup interact with our tier set and Supercharger, does that count as a 15 combo point spender?
7 From max CP
5 From Coup
3 From Supercharger
tribal blade
How does Coup interact with our tier set and Supercharger, does that count as ...
actually not sure but i assume yes
although wouldn't put it past blizz to make them not interact
mental saffron
So tier set adds 22.5% dmg to our coup?
regal current
it's worth doing in M+ while the tank is gathering
i mean, if you want to sure? in the long run its not gonna do much for you
tribal blade
i mean, if you want to sure? in the long run its not gonna do much for you
considering our entire apex revolves around sht gen
you're losing a lot of dmg not having snd active for a while
tribal blade
yes but when the tank is gathering you're not going into cds for a bit
and you can use 1 evis and then be able to gen way more CP and energy
to storm>BP during the gather
instead of just having 0 resources and afking
regal current
im just not arguing with you over .01% of the dungeon man
daring raptor
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
daring raptor
Wait is deathstalker better than trickster for single target now?
regal current
like idk what else to tell you, its not gonna make a large difference
regal current
Wait is deathstalker better than trickster for single target now?
on pure single target sure, but the entire raid is cleave
tribal blade
it won't make a huge difference no, but it's more optimal
regal current
i doubt it
tribal blade
if during the gather we're doing basically nothing in terms of overall according to you
what's wrong with using 1 evis to get up snd
to make you more able to press storm>BP without being completely energy and apex starved
mental wyvern
Guys, I'm having a great time bursting people in PvP. But I think we should nerf some of its burst damage and get Rupture back and maybe even nerf the burst a little bit more for some more DoT abilities. I think it's more thematic that way.
tribal blade
Guys, I'm having a great time bursting people in PvP. But I think we should nerf...
haha you're gonna summon @lilac stag
mental wyvern
I'm being sarcastic. The fact that I can pop trinkets and go to town without ramping and setups feels great.
tribal blade
some hunter randomly attacked me in the slayer's rise place today
and i absolutely dominated him with no pvp gear
incoming sub pvp nerfs
as is tradition
bleak night
ive had a lot of fun killing people inside of cheap shot in world pvp
tribal blade
i might possibly be doing pvp next week
to get a catalyst charge
which is disgusting, so we'll see
shrewd lantern
well they also buffed smokebomb
frail bone
are the sims correct, based on my gear and the choices I have it thinks I should drop 3% haste from 18 ro 15%. That's easy 2 gcds in there.
or is the 18% strictly for m+ and the first dance rule?
tribal blade
are the sims correct, based on my gear and the choices I have it thinks I should...
18% won't be hitting a breakpoint, what's your exact value
684 is what we're trying to hit
frail bone
oh ok.. im 644, so since I cant hit that its bascially saying go back down to the next lowest window.
tribal blade
i'm guessing yeah, although you do have enough for the 0.2 breakpoint
maybe the sim prefers to hit the 0.4 i have no idea tbh
need one of the nerds to clarify
frail bone
wait I just gemmed some of the empty sockets and chanted a ring.. I got up to 705 haste.
tribal blade
was just about to suggest that
frail bone
so above the break let me resim that agian
tribal blade
now it might want you to go down closer to 684 haha
pearl swan
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
warm marlin
maybe the sim prefers to hit the 0.4 i have no idea tbh
It does push to 0.4s
There is extra delay put in to make things nice for humans
My top gears all centralize around 690 700 w diff enchants and such
frail bone
yeah mine is still telling me to push it down to 15% at 530 haste value vs 712(at max), crit diff though is 535(sim) vs 335 and 558mastery (sim) vs 624.
So likley my crit is deemed to low?
tropic field
is delve leveling viable as sub? seems like im dying a lot
tribal blade
It does push to 0.4s
sick good to know
frail bone
put her on as heals. you wont die. and make sure to tricks to her. You wont get really strong until you have all your AA talents.. it's like night and day.
potent heath
is delve leveling viable as sub? seems like im dying a lot
80-90 ?
warm marlin
yeah mine is still telling me to push it down to 15% at 530 haste value vs 712(a...
Do you have haste flask and thalassian oils selected or something
tropic field
yeah
warm marlin
Because 530 + 150 flask + 32 oils will get you to 700
tribal blade
im doing shadowpoint guard
there's a hack for lvling, do each delve once and be sure to pick up the quest each one has but DO NOT turn it in
frail bone
which runs it with the llight pot, and mastery flask.
tribal blade
when you hit 88 turn on warmode and flying around turning them all in
frail bone
accordin to the output in the sim
tribal blade
gives like ~100k xp per turn in
then do first crafts on professions for the rest of the way to 90
you can skip 88-90 doing that
pearl swan
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tropic field
gives like ~100k xp per turn in
damn, thanks!
frail bone
@warm marlin maybe I will specify it and see what happens.
tribal blade
damn, thanks!
ofc!
tropic field
so i should do every delve now and if i dont hit 88 i just spam shadowguard point?
tropic field
cba questing tho
potent heath
What is shadowguard point ?
frail bone
the s tier run is gulf of memory for speed, but with decent of haranir story I think is the candle one.
frail bone
looking forward to it.. finally something to work for in a couple days.
well I guess we are in monday now lol
vestal relic
Exactly, hype we get something to do but m+/mythic cant come soon enough
vale osprey
how hyped are we for raid?
Actually omega hyped, I'm EU Andy so gotta wait an extra day but sub is feeling so smooth to play ATM and love getting gear and proggin bosses
frail bone
yeah still sim is asking me to drop 125 haste and 70 mastery for 200 crit and 50 vers. It wants to keep me in the .2 sec window of play.
tribal blade
yeah still sim is asking me to drop 125 haste and 70 mastery for 200 crit and 5...
might be worth just ignoring it tbh
because it feels a lot better playing with ~684
frail bone
yeah that .3 extra feels alot less stressful lol
tribal blade
how hyped are we for raid?
can't wait to proc cheat UwU
dreamy latch
how hyped are we for raid?
Being C tier in m+ takes the edge off
tribal blade
yeah that .3 extra feels alot less stressful lol
you're also genning more sht and more apex
hot seal
Being C tier in m+ takes the edge off
I mean u were never gonna be meta on rogue so
frail bone
I dunno everything ive played so far im dumpstering the other dps.
frail bone
Magisters feels so good on the big hall way pulls.
hot seal
ofc when packs die fast, sub is insane haha, but wont translate into m+ that way
tribal blade
i have a sneaking suspicion the devs are gonna be playing a yo-yo tuning game of buffing and nerfing BP
hot seal
I think if we rly stinker we getting buffed next week so idc
vale pine
jokes aside
mythic+ balance probably does not matter
people won't push high keys now
all thats relevant is doing your vault key
void ocean
mythic+ balance probably does not matter
what about mythic feral
frail bone
with resto being so good groups wont be looking at them as much since they will bring the buff.
now if it is a different healer then maybe
tribal blade
vale pine
the problem for rogue is kinda
tribal blade
banger video
vale pine
you want windflurry
tribal blade
the problem for rogue is kinda
raid buff and utility 🙂
vale pine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDE0MOr_N4U
fine does not mean good ^^
tribal blade
fine does not mean good ^^
haha true
i'm not overly worried, there's gonna be so much tuning
vale pine
thats true
frail bone
tuning this week and then the tuning after WFR.
vale pine
i did not watch the video
but technically, subtlety still has good burst and frequent cds
even if the cleave is nerfed
and we have execute and other small niches
also technically spoken, each class in the game is always "fine"
you never have a class entirely unplayable or bad
vale pine
the problem is just perception and enjoyment
even if your damage is "fine"
how muh does a player enjoy being middle of the pack
on a pure dps class with no real raid utiltiy?
keen dome
how hyped are we for raid?
Very. I am looking forward to pugleading again.
vale pine
perception of what is good/bad is based on tuning, and its hard to predict how good rogue is tuned
e.g. s3 TWW, subtlety had an insane tier set combined with an busted trinket
if you removed both and replaced it with something mediocre
you would not have seen much subtlety played
but also, not every spec and class can be an outliner
so you can't make everyone happy
tribal blade
oh @vale pine do you have the exact numbers for 2pc and 4pc % gain
vale pine
ye
tribal blade
i would do a sim with my own char but realized haste values might be fucky
tribal blade
for deathstalker
sick ty
keen dome
Whispyr video is very good.
tribal blade
Whispyr video is very good.
yeah it's good
vale pine
Whispyr video is very good.
how long is it, i can watch later
keen dome
13 minutes
frail bone
13 mins
radiant swift
is or will there be no cleave build anymore for bosses with frequent adds? is it straight up m+ talents?
keen dome
is or will there be no cleave build anymore for bosses with frequent adds? is it...
Voraius might be more ST focused? I'm not sure yet.
vale pine
and you increase cleave/aoe for some st trade offs
frail bone
is that why most sims point outlaw. just for the constant cleave
keen dome
Vaelgot and Ezzorak migth be too. So might be Crown of the Cosmos.
So there's some fights we might get to blast on
olive canyon
m+ build is only 1 talent swap
so between st and any form of cleave we just switch out that one point? i think it was weaponmaster for potent powder?
radiant swift
was it only one talent? wad it like that before too? think was weaponmaster for more st and crit instead of aa speed
and smth else
keen dome
Yeah, I think so too about Fallen King.
'Cos if the orbs get close to the boss you aren't cleaing them down anyway
vale pine
vaelgor needs to be tanked 15y appart
so you can't cleave
which means, its kinda single target
keen dome
You do have an add wave off Void Howl but I don't know if they're gonna live long enough to matter if we can cleave them
on the duo dragons.
tribal blade
yeah that's the thing, a lot of these bosses are "cleave" but not really for melee
less so for melee than ranged i should say
ornate reef
guys! good idea craft weapon?
vale pine
so once melees are reached
unsure how much cleave there will be
we will see later this week
keen dome
Imperator has a ton (Add wave every Voidshaper when it goes active), Voraius has Blistercreep that need to die near the walls but that feels less like a job for Sub, but who knows. Fallen King has Orbs but you focus them down. Dragons are 15y apart. Lightbound is full 3 target cleave so gg us, lmao. Crown is weird as hell because of the P1 and P2 part. But I imagine we can just focus the boss.
tribal blade
we will see later this week
you scared the shit out of me just there fuu haha
keen dome
Chimarius has an add wave multiple times during P1 you need to kill before the boss eats it, and then another add wave in P2 so it's a lot of cleave and AoE.
vale pine
haha, ye typo
tribal blade
i thought maybe they were doing some weird early raid drop
vale pine
its early
keen dome
I wanna raid so bad. I'm so prepped
vale pine
i mean, i am hyped for the raid
but many of the fights look fairly simple on normal/heroic
sooo
mythic might be where it becomes fun
tribal blade
i'm fine with that tbh
keen dome
Ye, a lot of the heroic changes are pretty minor. Although without seeing tuning on the fights themselves it's hard to know for sure.
olive canyon
From what i read, healing seems to be tougher with tonnes of rot dmg on all fights
tribal blade
this tier does seem hard for healers in general
olive canyon
mechanically it seems quite simpe so far
tribal blade
we'll see
vale pine
the problem is like
healers lost a LOT of stuff
so healing is harder because healers are so much simpler
keen dome
I think mechanics can be misleading in their simplicity. Blistercreep on Voraius, for example. Very simple on paper but I bet people are gonna struggle to do it.
vale pine
sometimes you just don't have a cooldown to deal with x/y on specific healers
olive canyon
Blistercreep - is that the add that blows up walls?
tribal blade
I think mechanics can be misleading in their simplicity. Blistercreep on Voraius...
just walk into your add and watch the rest of the fight floor pov
vale pine
I think mechanics can be misleading in their simplicity. Blistercreep on Voraius...
possible
tribal blade
and then collect loot
vale pine
"please don't cleave"
keen dome
But it requires everybody who is fixated to pay attention and position. And it requires every DPS to actually wait to kill them
vale pine
people: "we explode the add in the middle when it spawns"
keen dome
In an organized setting you'll have an easier time but I bet you some groups are gonna struggle
keen dome
Vaelgot and Ezzorak is another boss I imagine is gonna be harder than people think (unless the tuning is a joke)
It's a fight with a few moving parts that people need to understand and people don't like understanding.
olive canyon
Early boss though so i doubt it gets too challenging
keen dome
4th boss out of 6th
olive canyon
Phoenix boss looks fun
hollow spear
13 minutes
That short? Whispyr fell off!
keen dome
Balo'ren looks fucking easy, weirdly.
The only heroic change I could find is he does Quills now. Otherwise it's just.. cycle. So it's all gonna be in the tuning.
I've not looked at mythic, because I don't personally raid at that level early on.
olive canyon
looks fun though - but i imagine sub would be good for burst on egg but im not sure of mythic mechs
pulsar prawn
anyone have a good plater profile or what are we rocking this xpac?
keen dome
I think Assa might be real good on Balo 'cos of repeated execute phases.
full bobcat
assa on second egg phase can be good
keen dome
For me, personally, Vaelgot and Crown of the Cosmos are the two fights I'm worried about.
Crown looks wild.
hollow spear
What does repeated execute mean? Respawns with less than 100% health?
keen dome
What does repeated execute mean? Respawns with less than 100% health?
Yeah. Balo'ren has two phases.
You fight birb, birb goes to 0%, becomes egg. You nuke egg down as it casts Rebirth. When rebirh finishes, birb back.
FIght ends when egg dies
hollow spear
Does the egg start at 100%
keen dome
So you'll repeatedly be pushing the birb to 0%, which means multiple executes on it. And then the execute on the egg itself has huge value.
yeah, it does. But the HP is persistent
hollow spear
Does that really increase execute value?
I always thought of it as "if you spend relatively more time in execute than you normally would"
keen dome
Well, you will in a sense because you will put the bird into execute range multuple times.
hollow spear
Which was the case on Rashanan
keen dome
And the additional damage on the egg in execute is probably going to be valuable since you'll want it to die before the rebirth.
Yeah, not the same value as Rashanan. Just the extra value of more damage.
west tide
depnds on timing too if u can get r cds in that phase consistently than execute value goes up to its bg value
hollow spear
I'll have to think about it, but mathematically it shouldn't make a difference if you have 5 shorter fights that go from 100-0 or 1 long fight that goes from 100-0
keen dome
That's fair, yeah.
west tide
ye execute is good af when u pair it with the cds
keen dome
I'm not smart enough to theorycraft raid fights.
hollow spear
You're only going to be sad if the target dies halfway through your dm window
keen dome
purple..
keen dome
Everybody should take bets on Lightblinded Vanguard btw
vale pine
tru we also need a purple bleed like button
i see what you did there
west tide
if we get execute we will always be nerfed dude
severe prism
trying to understand the apex optimisation does that mean i wanna enter dance with high shadow technique stacks so when i ss after sectec it procs ? or i just send dance anyway and spam ss after sectec to proc it ?
keen dome
How many people will get pacified during it
west tide
imagine if sec tech had execute amp theyd never let u go crazy in dungeons
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
west tide
and then ur filler will be nerfed
hollow spear
How many people will get pacified during it
At least 1 (me)
west tide
strike nerf all nerf..
keen dome
At least 1 (me)
See, this is where I'm gonna miss Weakauras.
I would absolutely make one to track how many times someone is pacified during the fight
vale pine
what was discussed in #tc-research is just how the line interacts if you don't have the last apex skilled
tho you would not rly do that
severe prism
so it looks like dance>sectec>ss>ss>evisc ?
hollow spear
I would absolutely make one to track how many times someone is pacified during t...
And automatically post it to raid chat after the fight?
keen dome
And automatically post it to raid chat after the fight?
Yeah, a leaderboard
keen dome
I really love Lightblined Vanguard. Blizz cooked that fight, it's brilliant.
I hope they consider doing more "Council fight but it's 3 player class specs"
vale pine
so it looks like dance>sectec>ss>ss>evisc ?
you usually use secret first gcd in dance
keen dome
Senn's ult, the Draenei. It puts an Aura of Peace out that pacifys you if you attack her or her allies in a 40yard radius around her
vale pine
or you mean on deathstalker
west tide
ooo ok
vale pine
but ye
keen dome
So when she ults you gotta run out of the aura and stop attacking
vale pine
it can lead to extra strike casts
bleak night
So when she ults you gotta run out of the aura and stop attacking
cant wait for something silly to happen like it proccing off dots
vale pine
keep in mind
keen dome
It's cute but I don't like it. I don't think it teaches people the WoW raid fights, I think it teaches them those versions of the fights in Vellum.
vale pine
blizz could at any time change encounters
so we don't 100% know if the encounters are the same as in testing
keen dome
Ye
I wrote my guide using the Journal then cross-referencing it with beta videos, etc.
But I won't be able to comfirm anything until I raid on Weds
I think I've figured Crown of the Cosmos out but the first phase is confusing. Reminds me of Mammoroth from WoD.
vale pine
the two untested encounters
keen dome
Yeah, Crown and Midnight falls
keen dome
Crown is a lot more clear than Midnight Falls.
vale pine
thats true
bleak night
i mean crown has an entire phase that just isnt in the journal at all
so maybe clearer up until that point
keen dome
i mean crown has an entire phase that just isnt in the journal at all
haha, it does?
ornate lake
Bruh how do we play on the two dragons and the paladin council bosses?
Switch to assa?
bleak night
haha, it does?
keen dome
uh
keen dome
bleak night
im looking at mythic
keen dome
Oh
bleak night
heroic is whatever
keen dome
Heroic is where most people raid
keen dome
I don't care about Mythic. The actually smarter and better raiders who aren't puglording to AotC can think about that
distant sage
does cdg still eat stacks if we sectec with it up
bleak night
i'd argue managing to raidlead pugs makes you better than a large number of mythic raiders
keen dome
Thinking about that time I had some people from a CE guild join my Heroic pug, and they couldn't do Fracilitus Heroic because their WA's weren't working and they wiped us.
It was extremely funny
Zero understanding of the actual fight
keen dome
I tried to pug Mythic moth and when the group got to it, we spent an hour trying to make WA's work and I just left the group
vale pine
you do
keen dome
because frankly fuck that noise lmao
weary tree
Alright so dont have to hold it then
wispy pebble
!apex
wicked joltBOT
You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.
wispy pebble
oh thats now what i thought it was lol. Up to jhow many targets do we still force apex proc over BP?
hollow spear
I tried to pug Mythic moth and when the group got to it, we spent an hour trying...
Can't even remember the big difference that asked for wa tech
vale pine
the problem with weakauras was the dependency
hollow spear
oh thats now what i thought it was lol. Up to jhow many targets do we still forc...
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
vale pine
many times they didn't work
or had some bugs
and everyone needed to have the same version
etc
pastel arrow
Heya i have some question, is their any way with the cooldown manager to see when we don't have poison on wep ?
keen dome
Can't even remember the big difference that asked for wa tech
It automatically assigned lane soaks
wispy pebble
Also check the FAQ
where is that? I think that was a channel once but i dont have it anymore
keen dome
But I guess they couldn't count to 5 and needed a WA to do it for them
wispy pebble
nvm found it. Might be blind on both eyes
ornate lake
Heya i have some question, is their any way with the cooldown manager to see whe...
Not that I know of. I use a poison reminder add on
wispy pebble
Heya i have some question, is their any way with the cooldown manager to see whe...
EllesmereUi has it but i dont think it stems from CDM. So probably addon needed
zinc wagon
So we a good with going into raid as sub trickster? Or are the other specs ahead? Im really lost at this point 🙂 thx guys
vale pine
So we a good with going into raid as sub trickster? Or are the other specs ahead...
we probably:
- Play deathstalker on the single target figths
- Play trickster on all other fights
keen dome
I'm gonna play Trickster on all the fights. 
onyx flame
we probably:
- Play deathstalker on the single target figths
- Play trickster on...
Are there even ST fights in the new Raids?
keen dome
I'm gonna throw Crown of the Cosmos in there too. As a feeling.
faint hemlock
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.
teal seal
Heya i have some question, is their any way with the cooldown manager to see whe...
Check out the addon “Clickable Raid Buffs”. It tracks all useful buffs including poisons
lean sigil
But its about 2% extra single as DS right? Maybe just stick to trickster, DS seems less fun
mint swift
It is
At least on Assa it was
lilac stag
Are there even ST fights in the new Raids?
At some point even an encounter with adds on adds may have the adds be overkilled and some dps need to go ST to kill the actual boss.
mint swift
Having your entire hero tree behind a sometimes hard to apply debuff isn’t engaging imo
mint swift
Ye
Legit the first dungeon I tested on rogue was murder row
Take a guess what happened on the first boss
olive canyon
when playing deathstalker, why is it best to enter dance with 0 cps?
vale pine
I'm gonna throw Crown of the Cosmos in there too. As a feeling.
ill probably start as trickster for most of the fights
normal raid
keen dome
hell yeah
vast basin
Do we technique outside of sd?
vale pine
tho our gear level si likely low
vale pine
Do we technique outside of sd?
no
tribal blade
you migth want to run deathstalker on all?
i feel like it might be safer to just play trickster on all fights
plucky parrot
ye the diff between ds and trickster seems minimal enough that having the option to cleave may be more relevant even if adds just explode
tribal blade
taht and also i feel like our muscle memory is better as DS
1 thing's for sure, you definitely do not want to play DS on the paladin boss
juggling the mark on 3 targets and having worse cleave sounds doo doo
weak flame
getting stacks of unseen blade i guess ?
young harness
Any other rotational changes for DS besides going into dance with low cp?
light hull
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
chrome palm
!bug
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet
steady sail
Is Warning Signs (25% auto attack speed during dance) really that valuable in Deathstalker if we're not fishing for Trickster unseen blade resets? In my sims the auto attack damage isn't that huge
lilac stag
when playing deathstalker, why is it best to enter dance with 0 cps?
You open with dance+storm vs sitting on cps for dance + Sectech. ie DS has a better builder option to start than Trickey due to not being able to do dance + strike without a delay.
vale pine
i feel like it might be safer to just play trickster on all fights
ye probably
tribal blade
Is Warning Signs (25% auto attack speed during dance) really that valuable in De...
it isn't just autos, you generate more sht and therefore more apex
round widget
Don’t think any boss is a DS boss on mythic
tribal blade
ye probably
but who knows 😉
steady sail
it isn't just autos, you generate more sht and therefore more apex
D'oh, knew I was missing something
tribal blade
i suspect most people will play trickster because vibes are way better
round widget
There is some sort of cleave on every boss
tribal blade
There is some sort of cleave on every boss
there is for sure but it's a lot of spread cleave or cleave melee can't participate in
or there's cleave where doing boss dam is still probably more important
lilac stag
There is until every dps specs cleave and its decimated .
round widget
or there's cleave where doing boss dam is still probably more important
Yea but trickster is a super small ST loss
lilac stag
Some people will be going ST
tribal blade
yeah that's why i think trickster is the play
lilac stag
and DS is a bigger gain on ST than trick
vale pine
so my assumption would have been to paly DS in normal but trickster in heroic
however, guilds are undergeared
lilac stag
just play outlaw in heroic
vale pine
XD
unborn badge
With us having 2 charges of dance, why do we only dance with SecTec up and not weave in extra dances?
fluid spire
why the fballs did sub get nerfed aoe??
unborn badge
But CDs align to have a Dance almost guaranteed with Sectec up no?
lilac stag
It was insanely good
mint swift
It was insanely good
I remember taking it for a spin, not knowing how to play it perfectly and it felt insane
fluid spire
was it???
lilac stag
Sectech needs to be first finisher. Dance cd doesn’t allow for that if you weave.
tribal blade
if you use dance charges as they come up you'll inevitably run out of charges for sectec
and then you're boned
mint swift
Unless blizzard decides to streamline the spec even more and give and additional S.tech charge
royal mantle
When we doing sub for pve? 😂
tribal blade
Unless blizzard decides to streamline the spec even more and give and additional...
nah there's no way we get another dance charge
mint swift
Always
fluid spire
people were saying sub had mediocre aoe at best before the nerfs
tribal blade
I meant tech
OH mb
short radish
people were saying sub had mediocre aoe at best before the nerfs
People were lying
mint swift
Which is somehow even more insane to think about
fluid spire
People were lying
real???
lilac stag
people were saying sub had mediocre aoe at best before the nerfs
Those people are idiots
tribal blade
It’s MY bad haha
I'M sorry, no no I'M sorry, no please I'M sorry
mint swift
I'M sorry, no no I'M sorry, no please I'M sorry
Who is I’m
fluid spire
They were saying it didn’t have unholy aoe
makes an awefull lot of sense
trickster still > deathstalker for m+?
tribal blade
Who is I’m
I'm yer mother