subtlety

[shrewd reef]

do we hold all veteran crests or only 160?

[warm marlin]

i got one off my first one

gg

just need one more

[hollow compass]

why is calamari listed as our best food? bento gives 65 of highest stat whereas calamari is 58 🤔

[shrewd lantern]

how many upgrades do you have

[warm marlin]

i only need 1 more

so 3 ig

[upper narwhal]

new Sub exclusive transmog dropping

[shrewd lantern]

looks goofy ngl

alsow why does the red one not have the glowing eyes

[golden plume]

This was my luck after the 2nd m0 world tour, i need to know this:

Of course im gonna grab a Dagger with Darkmoon Sigil: Hunt, my question is, should i grab a cloak with the 2nd embellishment instead of a belt for min/maxing for first day of raid and just change it later a long the way? i couldn't find anything about this but it just makes sense considering we have a 246 champion belt meanwhile, thinking of grabbing both with crit/haste just in case i change specs later

every page is recommending to just craft the belt but idk

[warm marlin]

@plush roost @chrome palm upgrades are not warbound btw

better get at er

[plush roost]

way ahead of you

[finite hedge]

Is basically every raid boss a potent powder spec? Seems like they all have adds. Maybe not Vaelgor and Essorak?

[leaden prairie]

you tracking too many cds there bud

[blazing folio]

the guides assume you craft with mythic crests. if you want to go with max ilevel into next week, just craft the cloak.

[thorn sundial]

Sup guys

[lilac stag]

The guides are showing you BiS gear acquired 4+ weeks of full raid reclears. As the name implies, they are guides - not only do this with your gearing.

fucking bis lists can go right to the bin

[thorn sundial]

Wanted to ask, since Coup de grace gives 5 stacks of flawless form, +20% finishing move dmg, why is it not higher than Secret Technique in the priority?

[lilac stag]

because Sectech getting on cd sooner is a higher priority.

Sectech is our dmg

[thorn sundial]

Assuming flawless form zero or low stacks

[lilac stag]

sectech is the priority.

the more you hold short CDs the worse off you are

[plush roost]

it may be implemented in simc try nightly

[shrewd lantern]

its missing something

that the og hood has

[robust light]

i missed out on the legion remix mogs and iwant to kms omggg

[cursive vapor]

i like the purple more than the red and black (brown) ngl

[chrome palm]

i hope you like this trinket btw

because with your luck youll be using it for a few weeks

[shrewd lantern]

didnt miss much

[shrewd lantern]

theres just something about the og bloodfang hood

that looks better

[warm marlin]

even on nightly turning the setting off and on doesnt change anything

could be its always on regardless of setting

[plush roost]

i used all my luck on pregearing....

[chrome palm]

minimesser is prebis btw

im about to carry splits

[plush roost]

lorelei was getting different results with them turned on/off

[chrome palm]

actual perfect stats

[cursive vapor]

no eyebrows lmao

[shrewd lantern]

Elf player

[warm marlin]

its been weird for rogue the whole time

[shrewd lantern]

[warm marlin]

there's a discussion in tcresearch about it

idk

[cursive vapor]

at least not male to not make u mad

[shrewd lantern]

full helms look weird in wow

because blizz cant design helms to keep hair

your character just goes bald

for some reason

[chrome palm]

white eyepatch is elite tho

[shrewd lantern]

[chrome palm]

it took me 8 weeks of killing/weekly vault to get my transmitter

[plush roost]

yeah it just doesnt even proc on sims pog?

[stuck arrow]

That's what it looks like. Might not proc in sims on any melee class.

[plush roost]

ill check havoc then devour

[fiery fog]

does the rank for the ring enchant even matter? both provide 1% crit effectivenes

[hazy breach]

Yes, the r1 provides 0.75% and the r2 provides 1.25%

[fiery fog]

oh ok. nice tooltip then

[lilac stag]

I remember getting meme’d on for suggesting that trinket when we first started looking at options.

[warm marlin]

i mean i didnt prog tww1 so i didnt have transmitter and heroic hoc just didnt drop

it wasnt good

wasnt bad for sure tho

it worked

[lilac stag]

It was better than h transmitter

Good enough for me. Haha

[plush roost]

it made a 700 dps diff on havoc

[plush roost]

yeah its just rogue specific

pog

[lilac stag]

blizz: fuck rogues. kthxbye

[short radish]

i wonder if that trinket is going to be good again this tier?

probably not since you cant upgrade though right

[lilac stag]

Maybe week 1-2

I’ll farm my creates for it

buff a Sectech every minute ish

[limpid sage]

I’m looking at it for my enh shaman until puzzle box is acquired

It’s weird how there are almost no 1 min steroid trinkets besides the pvp one

[lilac stag]

They’re usually just the 2 minutes

[short radish]

anyone got the rogue image with patrick playing basketball and theres 0/0 for rogue when ctrl f

[limpid sage]

Ye or 1.5

[lilac stag]

When they remember

[short radish]

thank you

[warm marlin]

i actually made this one

its a bingus original™

[short radish]

10/10 creations as always

[warm marlin]

my stormarion citadel group lost

im not sure im strong enough for this

[plush roost]

Oh shit i forgot im afk

[short radish]

i lost twice in a row

[plush roost]

Survivor too good this season

[warm marlin]

i interrupted my slay the spire to try to bring it back and we still lost

[plush roost]

Notlikethis

[thorn sundial]

Couldn't see your response idk why lol. But yeah okay, seems kinda wild tho, right? Like 20% dmg amp on Sectech at the cost of 1gcd delayed

[crystal spear]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wet anvil]

big

[sullen glen]

I know it's probably been asked, but are we sending spark on weapon - then just moving it to offhand if we vault/raid myth wep?

[sullen hare]

that's my plan

follow your heart but I'm doing that exact thing

[crystal spear]

anyone know what to prio for spark crafting?

[sullen hare]

step 1: follow your heart

step 2: craft whatever your heart says to craft

step 3: ???

step 4: it's the end of season and you're using a crafted belt and offhand dagger

[crystal spear]

gotcha thx

[bleak night]

anytime

[tribal blade]

are we back to rogues not existing in patch notes again

good to be back

[sullen glen]

those are for like a month from now

[tribal blade]

lol true

also good to see arms getting shit on again

[sullen hare]

bold of you to assume we'll be in the mar17 patch notes shaype

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[sullen hare]

black powder 7% buff

[sullen hare]

https://girlcockx.com/i/status/2032132001562779926

adept (@adeptxo)

moonkin players don’t even ask for buffs anymore they just look at you like this

**💬 11 🔁 11 ❤️ 318 👁️ 17.0K **

girlcockx · Mar 12, 2026, 4:29 PM

[tribal blade]

lol i'll never feel sorry for boomys

[lilac stag]

But we get purple bloodfang

imagine that on your nelf

[willow bobcat]

We are back boys

[obtuse relic]

Ancient arts can be tracked now I guess Blizz really wants sub to press shadow strikes at full combo points

[willow bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-pointing-gif-14917655

[lilac stag]

Nah. They just realized subs cdm looked empty.

[iron imp]

Wait we're supposed to be pressing SS at full cp?

https://tenor.com/view/dol-huh-eyes-disgusted-gif-11690827820922534530

[tribal blade]

oh shit do we??

[sly shore]

we used to pray for times like these

[granite river]

inb4 it works once like 👍 implacable

[torn tide]

where are these patches?

[sullen hare]

it's a minor optimization at low target count

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[obtuse relic]

Yeah it’s like 1.5 percent increase so I just don’t track it or do it I won’t lie lol

[plush roost]

Its even less now

0.2% iirc

[obtuse relic]

In aoe I don’t even think it’s worth mainly st I could be wrong tho I just avoid doing it lmao makes the rotation allot simpler for -1.5 percent dps

[obtuse relic]

Damage increase for shadow strike at max combo points?

[plush roost]

Yeah

[obtuse relic]

Why’s it even less now lol

[plush roost]

Robot deemed it less

Yes nobody knows why

[fallow glade]

I manifested it

[sullen hare]

thank you robot

[obtuse relic]

Ahh ok so I’m fine completely ignoring it thank god

I’m a shit player so I’m ok with it lol

[plush roost]

Some people are theorizing it has to do with supercharger on prepull

Since supercharged apex hits go pretty hard

No clue though itll be figured out im sure

[pine oyster]

Hallelujah!

[iron imp]

Minor optimization=can't be asked. Bless ty

[bleak night]

np

[bleak night]

reminder that evis icon is you stabbing a dude in the ankle

[obtuse relic]

Based 😂

[pine oyster]

The ankle? Looks like a neck to me

[bleak night]

nah its an ankle

[sullen hare]

I don't see the ankle either tbh

[bleak night]

they want you to think its a neck

[obtuse relic]

Is there a reason outside of shadow striking at max cp to track ancient arts ?

[sullen hare]

not really no

[stuck arrow]

What does your ankle look like, exactly? 😂

[pine oyster]

Do female undead still do a backflip when evis, or is that just a classic thing?

[sullen hare]

cankle*

[bleak night]

you gotta look at it from far away

and squint a bit

but its an ankle

[winter junco]

should i always only be casting secret tech with shadow dance up?

like how long should i hold casting secret tech if shadow dance is on cd

[pine oyster]

Shouldn’t really run into that issue unless you sent a dance without a sectec

[stuck arrow]

Shadow dance shouldn't be on CD.

[winter junco]

im using both charges of shadow dance back to back i should not?

[stuck arrow]

Correct way to think about it is don't use a dance with sectec unless you're going to over cap. Which again typically shouldn't happen.

Use dance twice only in Shadow Blades.

[winter junco]

ok that make sense

[idle aurora]

I like the hud tracker it still works right?

[tulip light]

yes

[soft summit]

I don’t know about you guys, but I am loving sub rogue right now. The rotation is so fluid and fun

[tribal herald]

only Shadow Dance twice during Shadow Blades. Rest of time always SD + Secret Tech, and u shouldn't have to wait for any CDs cause they are allign

[visual lark]

its so fluid my pc can't keep up with fluidness

[soft summit]

I am cranking so hard and I’m just an average player.. I’m worried they are going nerf us to the ground

[tulip light]

does anyone know why the Sample Ability Log doesnt hold 2x dance during blades? maybe poking @hazy breach here

[hazy breach]

What

[tulip light]

rotation guides recommend to hold 2x dances for blades but my sims dont do so if im reading the sequence table correctly

[hazy breach]

You want to use 2x dances during blades yes

[tulip light]

yes im trying to understand where the idea comes from if sims dont do so

[tribal blade]

sound alert now on apex is nice

[hazy breach]

But they do?

[tulip light]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gnXfc6fug4q7aEhunQjobb - maybe i get something wrong then

[hazy breach]

Might be some jank since we dont have the tier set that increases the duration of blades

[fleet wharf]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[tulip light]

ok fair that might be the case

[pastel quarry]

If anyone wants a good laugh, I was wondering why this macro wasn't working when I was doing M0 earlier...I added it to my regular bars but not my stealth/dance bars

[dull sierra]

Oh, I still have separate buttons for those :/ I gotta look at the macro list lmao

[tulip light]

a classic

[fleet wharf]

We don't bother with the AA optimization anymore now, do we?

[tribal blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tulip light]

during lust u can (0,2% gain) outside lust nope

[fleet wharf]

yea, I thought that was the most recent info, thanks for the confirmation

[plush roost]

Soon addons will have custom sounds attatched to cdm...

Reload shadowcraft sound shall return!!!!!

"Chi-chik"

[sick jackal]

!sim

[tribal blade]

that would be cool, i don't like a lot of the CDM sounds

[sick jackal]

'sims

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

the only ones i like are the lion, panther and 2 guitar ones

[plush roost]

U want fuu for the sheet bud

[sick jackal]

thanks too drunk to realise it

[stuck arrow]

Yeah bloodmallet out to lunch at the moment.

[plush roost]

Stay safe dont drive bruv

[sick jackal]

dw bruv will be looking at sims

[hazy breach]

Bloodmallet is fine now, theyve rerun it

[stuck arrow]

Nice that's good news.

Or maybe bad news for my parses. 😅

[tribal blade]

bro this world lag because of the abudance events is fucking insane

[bleak night]

lmao

[short radish]

https://x.com/sharkfishqt/status/2029946460674855356?s=20

miso🍜 (@sharkfishqt)

DUNDUN IM GONNA NEED YOU TO UNLAG THE FUCKING SERVERS RIGHT NOW YOU LITTLE PIECE OF ABUNDANT SHIT

X · Mar 6, 2026, 3:45 PM

[tribal blade]

i'm about to lose my shit

try to do WQ in voidstorm, ok this is way too laggy i'm out

hearth to silvermoon

i should get started on this new campaign chapter

start campaign, hey go back to the voidstorm

fucking

REEEE

[bleak night]

[night sparrow]

Glory be to a bounty so richly ... ABUUUUNDAAANT

[tough umbra]

What’s the word for raid? I’ve seen Outlaw simming higher in ST but what is the general consensus for raid spec?

[tulip light]

if you are already one of the very few people playing the rogue class when it comes to the raid specc there is only one recommendation - follow your heart

[warm marlin]

outlaw is literally always the highest simming spec

the most likely outcome is that it's sub again as it has been for a while

[soft summit]

Any rogues in NA able to craft the veteran crest leather legs, boots or shoulders?

[swift tinsel]

anyone using AbilityTimeline ever have it bug out and name every boss/fight ability Shadowmeld

bc

[bleak night]

ive seen people have that bug a lot recently

[swift tinsel]

it started on tuesday for me

[crimson thorn]

I m watching at shindigg right now, and he is not pressing SS even at full CP and 5 stack of shadow tec in single target to force apex, did the thing changed? Or its still better to do so?

[swift tinsel]

not really anymore

only in bloodlust for a very negligible gain

[crimson thorn]

What changed?

[swift tinsel]

sim stuff

robot changed its mind

[crimson thorn]

XDD, got it

[oak grotto]

Do you send Dance to empower BP or Evis outside of Blades?

Cause I know you always wanna send SecTch with dance, but do you dance without SecTech to empower your other Finisher

Or is it always just send SecTech + Dance, and then hold Dance until you can send another SecTech?

[night sparrow]

you never dance without sectec

[oak grotto]

So never send Dance unless I'm gonna SecTech?

[night sparrow]

exception is second dance within shadowblades

yup

[oak grotto]

Ah okay I see I see, tyty

[hard trellis]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[hard trellis]

is tricks macro broken or am i stupid

[night sparrow]

Is it better during SB to 2nd dance as soon as the first one fades or wait til GCD is over ?

[soft summit]

Is this confirmed? I would really love the chi-chik back

[rain vault]

For raiding which spec do yall think will be the go to?

[shrewd lantern]

let me ask the magic 8 ball

[alpine wraith]

depends if you dont have full haste and on use dance does not last the 16 seconds of blades

[shrewd lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons8ball-deez-nuts-8ball-make-a-wish-merps-gif-26138412

[alpine wraith]

so if you end dance with 0 cp

you can stab

to begin new one with full cp

or vanish strike

[rain vault]

so is that what all these tier lists are? just magic eight balls?

[alpine wraith]

if available

[shrewd lantern]

they're just free clicks from stupid people

ad revenue wahoo

[rain vault]

wowhead hurting that much?

[shrewd lantern]

If you actually care enough which spec is a bit better.

You'd learn them all.

[rain vault]

i'm sure you're a pleasent person to raid with.

[shrewd lantern]

I mean it's just the objective truth.

if marginal dps differences matter to you then prepare to play any spec

within a pure dps class

otherwise play whatever you want because it doesnt fucking matter

Doesn't matter if assa or sub do 5% more damage in a random non hof guild.

[hazy breach]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[shrewd lantern]

Especially when you got players that need to be told 20x to press wall.

[finite hedge]

It's also just not possible to know now without knowing the incoming tuning

[shrewd lantern]

Realistically you learn sub and sin as

blizz doesnt like outlaw being the default prog spec

[maiden pecan]

generally outlaws do good in first tiers because stats are lower

[shrewd lantern]

Uhhh

wtf is that logic

[maiden pecan]

sub need tons of mastery

assaa need haste

[shrewd lantern]

@hazy breach confirm?

assa needs haste for what

[maiden pecan]

energy

[shrewd lantern]

........

[maiden pecan]

u starve rn

[shrewd lantern]

im being trolled

[maiden pecan]

???

[shrewd lantern]

get 20% more haste and tell me how much your energy tick rate goes up

[dense geode]

its the best stat besides crit for sin

[shrewd lantern]

yes but not for more regen

[dense geode]

for both

[shrewd lantern]

people still thinking haste makes a big impact

[maiden pecan]

it does

[shrewd lantern]

on energy regen

[maiden pecan]

lol

go try to play m+ with assa rn

[shrewd lantern]

people literally spoiled by 2 expansions of assa having infinite energy

that when it slows down they complain about starving

[versed fiber]

Haste - more ticks, more hits, more regen from talent, still starving)

[dense geode]

sin has always relied on stats late game

[versed fiber]

As all classes

[shrewd lantern]

im gonna ping whispyr

[dense geode]

its just better end of xpac

[shrewd lantern]

and see what he says

im sure he'lll love the question

[maiden pecan]

assa historically scales way better wioth late seasons stats than outlaws

[dense geode]

just read the wowhead.. lmao

[maiden pecan]

its just simple

[shrewd lantern]

scaling argument lmao

[maiden pecan]

everyone who played the spec for 2 dungeon would figure it out man

[shrewd lantern]

the only validity of that point is outlaw and mastery

are like water and oil

[dense geode]

this guys jsut ragebaiting

[maiden pecan]

obv

he got me

[versed fiber]

Sub has energy issue at long fights?

[obtuse dirge]

anyone know of a way to track the first dance buff for between pulls?

[maiden pecan]

it doesnt since rework

[shut dawn]

Is there no way to add sockets to neck and rings? Like no midnight equivalent to magni jewelers setting?

[maiden pecan]

but it did before

[shrewd lantern]

you've never had energy issues during dance

which is the only time you do damage anyway

so....

[pulsar prawn]

!aa

[shrewd lantern]

WE REALLY HURTING FOR THAT BACKSTAB SPAM ENERGY

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[maiden pecan]

before rework u relied on energy to get more dances because of cd reduction

[shrewd lantern]

?

in tww

[maiden pecan]

now its statis so energy doesnt matter anymore but haste increase duration

[shrewd lantern]

you just afked

between

@dense geode idk if this is the most S tier ragebait

or

[versed fiber]

But if my dance off and fight still goes on I’m so low(

[shrewd lantern]

yeah you blast when dance is back

welcome to a burst spec

multiple mfo instances of just afk autoing something for 30 secs

well more like 20-25

[versed fiber]

Long fight is terrible( I thought it was only my skill issue

[shrewd lantern]

its really not unless fight ends right before another blades set

[maiden pecan]

long fight is about knowing when to send dances

[shrewd lantern]

then thats kind of troll

you dance with sectech

and twice during blades

and other periods barely matter

[maiden pecan]

for patchwerk sure

but its not like that

for 99% of content

[shrewd lantern]

lol?

sectech does aoe too

[versed fiber]

Thinking to switch on outlaw)

[maiden pecan]

yeah u sure want to send tech before add spawn

[shrewd lantern]

and you're couping shortly after anyway

in that dance

ok that one is just take 2 seconds to think

about spawn timers

[maiden pecan]

dude if u think raiding is about sending every button on cd ur an aotc player at best

[night sparrow]

hey do we even track unseen blade procs/stacks now ? Isn't Dance > Coup > SS > SecTec a thing to avoid wasting unseen blades stacks? Assuming you send your dance 2.2sec before sectec comes off CD btw

[shrewd lantern]

well considering you have a dance every 20

the add spawn must be shorter than that

to justify holding

or you just lost a cast

[maiden pecan]

nope

[versed fiber]

I’m not understand why we need 18 percent of haste. It is for gcd or something?

[shrewd lantern]

makes your dances longer

[obtuse shard]

How do people have thunderfury trangsmog for daggers?

[wide shale]

Only during lust?

[dense geode]

YOU CAN TRANSMOG SWORDS AND OTHER STUFF NOW

caps8

[exotic gorge]

do weuse SD+Tech macro? Or can you still play without it even with bug òf shadowstrike causing gcd delay

[shrewd lantern]

Why would strike delay affect shadowdance into tech

you can macro if you're not confident hitting dance and sectech the same global

[night sparrow]

Pretty sure the reason why 18% haste is having 7.3 dance duration = fits every gcd including the 1.2 from coup + you're able to cast 2 sectec during blades during BL. Correct me if I'm wrong

[exotic gorge]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[night sparrow]

Not macroing Sectec with Dance is taking the risk to send a GCD 0.001 second after your dance fades = straight dps loss. It's simply safer to macro it

[maiden pecan]

u can't use both dances at once anyways so no point not to do it anyways

unless u think ur gonna press sec tec button randomly xd

[exotic gorge]

ill keep my macro as is, i dont want to take the risk

[steel horizon]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[night sparrow]

Pretty sure we will also need to macro dance+evis and dance+BP (maybe even dance+bs or storm ?) with the 20sec SB because of tier set, since double dance will not cover the whole SB. So sending a finisher (or even a filler ? but sounds weird) the exact moment your enter dance will be as crucial as insta-send sectec

[night sparrow]

Found myself using dry sectec at the end of a dungeon pack, so I have two dances for the next pack and sectec comes off CD as the 1st dance fades

[grand summit]

So for a beginner

what macros are good to use

I just have one for Dance, Blades, and SecTec

[maiden pecan]

#showtooltip Black Powder
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[grand summit]

aye aye captain

[night sparrow]

TIL feral, monk dps and rogues are the only class/specs that have 1sec GCD not affected by haste 🤡

[maiden pecan]

#showtooltip
/cast [stance] Shadowstrike; Backstab

[grand summit]

I just have them both bound to 1 currently and rely on the bars to do it

is that any different?

[maiden pecan]

if u have stance bars its fine

it just helps if u want to remove them

[grand summit]

Understood

I will also take any general tips, this is my first season on rogue :)

[maiden pecan]

if u loose against a dps just trick them

use evasion and vanish to pull trash if ur tank is slow

and blame the hunter

50% of the time it works everytime

[night sparrow]

your group wipes on trash -> you play trickster with the 1 hours MD -> everyone dies but you -> mobs will cross the map to find your tank

[short radish]

theres a stance delay when you press sdance

so sometimes you'll spam 1

and press dance

and it'll backstab instead of ambush

[short radish]

No. The only dps that tricks should be cast on are augvokers. If they want to steal my damage they can also steal my aggro

[maiden pecan]

fair

[night sparrow]

I've always played rogue so idc about aggro, playing another class made me think that HOT TAKE aggro is such an old unrelevant mechanic. If your tank did 1 dmg to a mob it should stick to tank til it dies

glad we have the 1 hour md with trickster

[stuck arrow]

I mean that basically is how it is now.

If you're ripping aggro off tanks consistently in retail over the past decade or so usually that's a tank problem.

[maiden pecan]

i couldn't play my warrior if it wasn't night elf

[stuck arrow]

Back in like classic DPS threat used to be insane. If you used a dagger your dps was capped by tank threat.

But like, today? Idk man.

Tank threat is through the roof.

[short radish]

yeah if youre getting aggro, either you are monkey blasting the entire pack on the first global

or tank is doing 0 damage

[bleak night]

there are times when feral is well tuned that you can rip aggro with convoke

even when being ethical and waiting

[maiden pecan]

usually it's bad tanking but hey at least they invited u lmao

[tribal blade]

keeping threat in the game is good so there's skill expression in how you do things

[bleak night]

nelf op

[tribal blade]

all they need to do is tune up the threat tanks generate

[night sparrow]

idk afking to wait til tank pulls everything together is just not fun to me

[bleak night]

good thing we dont have to

[short radish]

the ultimate rogue utility

[maiden pecan]

on my warrior i just pop parry and fuggit

[torn tide]

is 14% haste enough for now? i cant seem to go up anymore

[maiden pecan]

xd

[bleak night]

i start dotting as priest and if i hit something the tank somehow didnt tag i just fade and let it kill someone else

[stuck arrow]

Like as someone who gets a tank to 3k+ M+ score every season once raid is done - legit like outside of very very rare situations if a tank loses threat is pretty much their fault.

And I know that's not a good score. I'm just saying like... Hundreds of keys - basically never happens. Tank probably just not pressing their buttons.

[maiden pecan]

we had tank agro ripping eachother on saladar prog last season

https://giphy.com/gifs/yevbel-sundance-2025-derek-sante-DXBuYjFyT7yfHOyc9B

good times

[night sparrow]

but I wanna send my juice 0.0001 sec after tank gets targeted by mobs 🥸

[short radish]

i don't want to stop damage.mp4

[night sparrow]

but yeah got your point

[torn tide]

i gotta follow them like a puppy until theyre done with everything for like a few seconds

[night sparrow]

Still sounds a lil unfair that we rogue can basically start dpsing as soon as mobs target your tank and most other classes can't

[stuck arrow]

Or alternatively - it means tank probably needs to work on grouping mobs efficiently so he can be hitting everything.

Which also is just like an absolutely massive group DPS buff on its own and should be the ultimate goal of any tank. Efficiently pulling and grouping mobs.

[night sparrow]

Blizzard will fix this by removing tricks and md 🥸 🥸

[maiden pecan]

we would still have evasion

so we good

[stuck arrow]

We can straight up DPS before he pulls. 😂

[torn tide]

whats md?

[night sparrow]

misdirection

[maiden pecan]

hunter sorcery

but md is cringe right now tbh it's only like what 6 sec ?

[night sparrow]

whatever is not rogue related is cringe

🥸

[maiden pecan]

disagree

just buff warrior so i can leave this discord pls

ty

[bleak night]

thats another 3 nerfs to arms

[obtuse relic]

Do allot people use the shadow dance secret technique macro

[night sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/ban-button-keyboard-press-the-ban-button-gif-16387934

[maiden pecan]

f

[lilac stag]

Fury and prot are fine.

Cya

[maiden pecan]

fury isnt fine

[night sparrow]

It's kinda mandatory tbf. Not macroing it = taking the risk to send a gcd the millisecond after dance fades = straight dps loss

since sectec is always the first thing you send in dance (exception 2nd during SB) it's just the way imo

(I'm still convinced that Dance+Coup->SS->SecTec is better to avoid wasting unseen blade stacks but history will prove me right 🥸 🥸 )

[obtuse relic]

Huh?

[maiden pecan]

sorry im intruder

[bleak night]

[night sparrow]

where are moderators ffs we have a situation here

[night sparrow]

Dance duration is affected by haste. Imagine your dance lasts for 7.01 sec, if you press dance THEN sectec 0.02sec later then your last GCD will be sent out of dance = shitty dmg

that's an extreme example obv

and ignoring the fact that coup has 1.2 gcd

[obtuse relic]

I just press secret technique after dance whenever it’s off cooldown

I think I’m just dumb I’ve been playing the game allot but I’m still kinda confused lol why it’s such a big deal if ur just gonna press it right after dance everytime

[night sparrow]

I pretty much just explained why lul

Not macroing it = taking the risk to send a finisher an instant after your dance expires

[stuck arrow]

Depends what your haste looks like, to be fair.

[night sparrow]

Yeah, made a general rule but if your dance lasts x.9 seconds it's indeed irrelevant

i'm not a HoF rogue but my bet is we also will need to macro dance+evis and dance+bp with the tier set for the same reason

[stuck arrow]

But also like - macroing em is literally easier and better.

Unless you're pvping and need a quick Cheap shot or something no real reason to have them on different buttons.

[fair phoenix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[obtuse relic]

I just got confused cuz ur talking about the end of shadow dance when the macro is for the beginning ur talking about trying to fit a extra gcd before dance expires or am I still confused af

[stuck arrow]

Yeah - if the gap between Dance & sectec is too long, and you miss a spell queue - you will lose a global that could have been in dance.

[night sparrow]

Now imagine your dance lasts for 1.01 seconds.

Dance + sectec macro = able to send a GCD after 1.0 sec

Sectec more than 0.01 after entering dance = your next gcd is out of dance

[stuck arrow]

And that's really bad because dance gives you a bunch of added damage.

[night sparrow]

Extend the same logic for 7.01sec dance

[elder garden]

i feel having a dance+sec macro is kinda counter-intuitive unless you have another dance bind, Like what you're just gonna hope or somehow always be max points when you press this macro or what?

am i missing something here

[maiden pecan]

u def want to have another bind for dance

[night sparrow]

Yeah dance still binded even with the macro

[stuck arrow]

You can always have Max combo points when you press dance.

[elder garden]

what

[obtuse relic]

Ok I see what ur saying had me confused for a sec but gotcha yeah I’ll bind it lol and just keep my sec tec bind still to track it

[elder garden]

well when you press dance yes im talkin about the sec dance macro

[stuck arrow]

Better to overcap on a cp from back stab than losing a gcd in dance.

I'm not sure what your concern is. Tbh.

[elder garden]

are we playin the same game

[stuck arrow]

When are you dancing and not either having sec tec up or on CD?

[keen plaza]

They are saying to go ahead and sit on full cp if dance and sec are about to be ready

[stuck arrow]

Exactly.

[night sparrow]

Stacking those ShT nomnomnom

[keen plaza]

That's why the macro works, you make sure you have full cp ready for it

I.e. don't send a finisher if you don't have enough globals to get full cp back before dance is ready

[stuck arrow]

But I mean if you're smart you really should be able to make sure in downtime you end up with exactly the right cp when sectec+dance ready to go, and also not over cap on cps / miss finishers.

But if for whatever reason you can't plan it well - if you just spend energy on backstab instead of finishing - it's neutral because you're banking a bunch of ShT procs.

But if you get used to planning it out usually you can make it flow relatively smoothly.

[elder garden]

Nah jay mate i ain't saying that infact i guess i already answered my own question saying yeah youll need a seperate dance bind aswell as the sec tec macro lmfao

jesus

[stuck arrow]

I mean that's what I'm saying.

You'd prefer to use that Eviscerate in dance anyway with the dance buffs. If you lose out on a few backstabs... It really doesn't matter.

[obtuse orbit]

only tracked buffs we really need to watch out for atm are shadow tech and Ancient Arts , correct?

[stuck arrow]

You're really only pressing dance in PvE if you're using sectec, or you're in blades and sectec just ran out.

Might be one or two cases in m+ where you want to dance without sectec, but even in that case it's debatable if you even want to dance.

[night sparrow]

Pretty much yeah

NOW COMES THE REAL QUESTION : how do I remember to apply poisons now that WA can't babysit my ass ?

[valid ocean]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[stuck arrow]

Use clickable raid buffs add on.

It's identical to old poison WAs.

[night sparrow]

Seems perfect, I'll check that thx

[stuck arrow]

Also nice because it flashes food/oil/flask/runes that you can click on too. Eliminates the B's of needing to find in your bag. 😂

[tribal blade]

does anyone know a good leveling boost service for alts

my guildie is in desperate need of it

[bleak night]

sounds like a market opportunity

[tribal blade]

my dude recently got himself a gf haha

[lilac stag]

@plush roost 19% haste is enough right?

[tribal blade]

now doesn't have a huge amount of time

[lilac stag]

have his GF level his alts

[tribal blade]

if only

[night sparrow]

10-80 is easy to find but 80-90 no idea :< weird that boosts servers like Oblivion or Dawn did not capitalize on this

[tribal blade]

mm gotcha yeah he's having a hard time finding it too

[viscid ocean]

ssomeone already simmed all dungeon trinkets?

[granite river]

nope no one ever

[shrewd lantern]

is emberwing even real for this spec

when its a 2min

XD

[pulsar hemlock]

It's not that bad

Yiou have it on pull, then for your 3min

[swift tinsel]

if we're holding blades for 10-15 sec we're about as close to a 2min spec as we are to a 1.5min spec

[pulsar hemlock]

That too

[swift tinsel]

flexible cooldowns as intended

[shrewd lantern]

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade 242.5 with 220 vet crests left to spend.

[tribal blade]

HUGE

[strange chasm]

You guys crafting a dagger with crests rn?

[lilac stag]

duh

We’re sub rogues. Ofc we craft dagger now.

[pulsar hemlock]

[supple pawn]

Question. How difficult is it to maintain two characters at a high level. TL;dr thinking of switching my raid main to rogue but I'd like to maintain my hunter main still

Rather than bring my hunter to splits

Idk how difficult it'll be

[lilac stag]

well the further behind you get in io for m+ week 1 the harder it is to pug

[supple pawn]

Or if maybe that's just a fucking stupid idea

[lilac stag]

So if you have someone to help get second too IO up it’s fine

Just Way too much wow for my stomach

[supple pawn]

Fair

I think I can take it

I grinded 7000 solo shuffle rounds for a sword

[strange chasm]

you think fr

[twin surge]

when you read subtlety in bug fix and get your hopes up 😛

[supple pawn]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/897055819475091456/1208352075088531466/makesweet-p0b1be.gif

[tribal blade]

it's a good thing though

[twin surge]

it is was just not what i was hoping for.

[strange chasm]

we always having this in offhand pre much?

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dire ravine]

i mean, werent we already able to track this with the parenthesis lookin things that were black on the sides of our screen?

[twin surge]

yes we were.

[supple pawn]

Oh, I'm also more of a raider 😭 I'd probably be pugging mythic raid on my hunter

[lilac stag]

Ho do you plan on getting gear and crest farming? Answer: ||mythic+||

[tribal blade]

yes but you can do way more with it in the CDM

can add more visual and audio alerts

[spring elm]

Going from Mara to Sub Rogue is whiplash

They massacred this spec lmao

[idle roost]

she's just built different

[soft summit]

what food are you guys using? On Wowhead they say calimari but it gives 59 haste. and costs 200+ gold. Fel-kissed filets cost 2 gold to make and give the same haste... but do we even want haste? Impossibly royal roast gives 50 agi which should be >>> than haste

[brisk onyx]

50agi yes

[lucid jackal]

U can make personal hearty food for literal pennies

It takes less than 5k gold

[supple pawn]

Hello lakie aaaa 😭

[idle roost]

hey vesves

[supple pawn]

How are you? Also what do you think I should dooo

[supple pawn]

mara?

[spring elm]

Fellowship hero

[idle roost]

am goooood lvled druid and monk ^^ finishing alts this weekend. you playing sub?

[supple pawn]

ohhh, gotcha

[supple pawn]

yuh

been fun

[pastel arrow]

Heya, i want to craft a chest 246, should i put the second embelish on it ?

[short radish]

no

definitely no

you might (probably will) replace it with tier

and then you dont have an embelish

craft embelish on belt/boots/wrist

[pastel arrow]

i tought so, but wanted to be sure

thnaks

[short radish]

np

[steel zinc]

@vale pine this needs an update for only during bl or?

[alpine wraith]

there is a little anotation at the end

maybe put it first actually

[short radish]

should also put that it's 0.2%

[haughty mural]

Do we still cancel apex ?

[short radish]

no

[haughty mural]

Good
Thought I was missing things in my warrior prep time

[short radish]

zug zug

[haughty mural]

Rogue has better loot now anyway

[steel zinc]

Didn't see tbh MB

[haughty mural]

Game wants to tell me smth

[young harness]

any funny/goofy dagger transmogs by chance

[supple pawn]

elaborate

[young harness]

like maces have funny fish etc

[pastel arrow]

Fanged Tentacle

[alpine wraith]

the barman shank

think we also had like christmas trees

and some other silly stuff

[haughty mural]

The guys in #transmog might know them all

[crystal atlas]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9YT8k6KiK7snN2VAznaQyo Damage seems so low T_T

suggesting double on use too

[alpine wraith]

the hook and the flask are just not that good

[crystal atlas]

flask being tjhe champ one right

oh nm thats freightrunnr

was hoping feather and champ trinket would be best

for double on use would I only use for blades or 1st Shadow dance use 1 then the next on the next shadow dance?

[solar silo]

Wowhead lists this as a macro:

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique
/use Tempered Potion
/use 13
/use 14

Does the order not matter? Shouldnt tempered pot and on use trinkets be before sec tec?

[dawn heron]

if the items / spells have no gcd they happen at the same time

[hollow compass]

are you guys using shadow blades on a 1:40 cd instead of 1:30 to line up dances better? thats what the sim is doing but wasnt sure if advised

cause otherwise you're effectively holding sectec for 10 seconds

so its either sectec at the 1:20 mark or 1:30 mark after holding it for 10 secs

[hollow compass]

buffreminders addon

[alpine wraith]

yea you delay blades a bit

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[keen dome]

Morning, Fuu

[exotic gorge]

Rogue
Subtlety
Ancient Arts triggered effect can now be tracked in the Cooldown Manager.

fuuu /bow

[hollow compass]

the sim doesnt prefer you dancing twice in blades 🤔

this shit is so weird

at least not with lust

[chrome palm]

It cant

Without tier and guidon

[tepid quartz]

Question, got like around 20% haste unbuffed is it still worth getting more? Becouse I sim higher with more haste gems/items than mastery/other stats

[hollow compass]

what would be optimal dance timings then? 0:00, 0:07, 0:20, 0:40, 1:00, then hold for 1:30?

i guess that would make sense

if you dance at 1:20 you'll have 0 charges, then get a charge back at 1:40 in time for blades, but wont have a second available for the full blades window

[lament anchor]

For the Amani Renown item which one is better for sub? I did sim, but I thought I'd ask.

[potent heath]

just dance with sectec

[potent heath]

haste/crit

[hollow compass]

that doesnt answer the question though

im trying to figure out when to start holding dances for upcoming blades window

[potent heath]

when she's up in 10sec something like

it's ur appreciation

[pastel quarry]

damn I thought we were only casting it with sectec...like not at all unless we had it up

I'm a goober

[potent heath]

crap

[iron tartan]

Silly question but if we craft our dagger now, I’m assuming you can just recraft it a higher item level during mplus week?

Without needing new sparks

[potent heath]

yes u didnt need spark

and half composant

[iron tartan]

Great, thank you

[alpine wraith]

yea you just need the new crests and that is it

[faint hemlock]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

and well the mats for recraft

[iron tartan]

No real downside to crafting it now then it seems

[potent heath]

u a bit late but yes

u can farm m0 easier with*

easiler/easily idk

[vale pine]

The downside of crafting now is potential shift in power level from tuning

but we will craft a dagger 90% of the time

so crafting a dagger is a low risk thing

[alpine wraith]

very unlikely outlaw is super far ahead in raid but if your thing is m+ and outlaw does better maybe you didnt like to craft dagger

[vale pine]

(well outlaw could be overtuned)

(and you likely want a 1h weapon then)

[alpine wraith]

but also as sub you can just snipe meters better

so people dont realise

[vale pine]

subtlety has good burst

which is why it looks strong in m0

if your tank does pull decent ofc

if you pull packs slowly, its not rly that good

[alpine wraith]

yea just do dungeons where tanks can mass pull

also algethar big D

tree boi is back

and birdo

[vale pine]

arcane and warlock is also quite strong

i would be surprised if they didn't get a slight adjustment

[alpine wraith]

yea monday will be wild

when the great hammering procs

[keen dome]

Are we still using Wax, btw.

[alpine wraith]

new oils

[vale pine]

probably not

[keen dome]

But I farmed so much

can I give it back to the kobolds

[vale pine]

i mean, i haven't tested it

but would need to see if the implementaiton still holds up

and even if its better

[keen dome]

ye

[vale pine]

blizz would likely fix it fast

[night sparrow]

OMG SUB IS IN THE PATCH NOTES

[vale pine]

XD

[neon pond]

even better:

Rogue
Subtlety
Ancient Arts triggered effect can now be tracked in the Cooldown Manager.

Pog

[vale pine]

yes, thats as of yesterdays hotfix

[night sparrow]

Sub so forgotten by devs they need need PTR to correct a typo

Sometimes I really think that if a dev is putting attention into rogue their grandma might explode or something

[ivory garnet]

Is still trickster meta now or deathstalker ?

[ornate wind]

yes

definitely one of the two

[vale pine]

trickster everywhere

[ornate wind]

is it that big a difference?

[short radish]

yes one does more damage and is fun to play (those are two separate things)
one does less damage and is not fun to play

[ornate wind]

that's true, deathstalker is pretty dull

[narrow shadow]

It's not even dull, it's straight up aggravating to play

[haughty mural]

It’s not like sub is a bottom feeder

[narrow shadow]

Yeah exactly I'm glad to dodge nerfs

Since sub always gets nerfed pre season 1 each expansion due to padding meters with high burst in low level content

[keen dome]

maybe we'll get buffed

[fossil forge]

fat levels of cope right there

[tribal blade]

huge thing is you can play FB sin in all content now

FB is "worse" than DS because it does less prio which matters for high keys, but FB technically does more throughput

and the diff between playing DS and FB is astronomical

one is super vibe the other is misery

[short radish]

maybe its time for me to try assi again

[chrome palm]

On the flip side, fb being better in pure st is also important for keys

[tribal blade]

very true tbh

[chrome palm]

I also wonder if they buff ds for sub

[tribal blade]

FB feels so much better than DS in pure ST

your CP gen is better and energy overall feels smoother

[chrome palm]

Since it runs less risk of being a pad monster compared to trickster

[tribal blade]

honestly dunno, not out of the realm of possibility

[chrome palm]

It seemed like in tww most classes had an st and aoe hero talent

[tribal blade]

if they do i truly hope it's in line with trickster and not better

[chrome palm]

I wonder if this philosophy changed

[tribal blade]

i think the cooking with rogue hero trees was SUPER underdone compared to other classes haha

so i get the feeling we're not following the same rules

[chrome palm]

That’s why I’m not sure lol

[tribal blade]

what're you playing btw messer

are you outlawing

[chrome palm]

I hope so

I don’t think my guild is very convinced LOL

[tribal blade]

hahaha

i'm doing sin and sub as my plan

because historically i don't like raiding doing outlaw's rotation

[chrome palm]

Im hoping outlaw is overtuned and sin stays undertuned

If outlaw only has to compete with one spec then it’s more reasonable to play it imo

Being able to swap between sub and assa is too valuable

[tribal blade]

yeah it really is

[chrome palm]

My fear is assa gets tuned high in st because it should perform very poorly on the first few bosses

[tribal blade]

i think i've left behind the part of me that wants to be super sweaty

[chrome palm]

Retired??

[tribal blade]

i think that undoubtedly happens at some point

haha not fully retired

but i just wanna vibe when i play now

no more pushing title

and just mythic raiding

[chrome palm]

Yeah I’m not sure what I’m going to do there’s no way I can push for title on rogue imo

[short radish]

im gonna remind you of this in 2 months when you're doing push keys

[tribal blade]

it's super super unlikely unless rogue is mega overtuned

which ain't happening

[tribal blade]

LOL

(please don't tell scath either)

[short radish]

i mean you're going to do some high keys because may as well have fun

then keep doing some more "high" keys

and since youre so close

[tribal blade]

hahaha

[short radish]

you may as well go for title

[tribal blade]

nah i was doing that in S3 and then stopped

[chrome palm]

Then your friend from 2 years ago logs in

And wants to push again

[tribal blade]

oh i have a funny story

i was pugging M0s with my guildie

and then we're in the group on my alt rogue prophesito

and then someone was like "are you the alt of prophet?"

and i was like YES how tf did you know

"we used to look at your logs to see how to play because you were highly ranked on stormrage"

and i was like "damn, i'm sorry for your loss"

what a small world

[keen dome]

haha, nice

[chrome palm]

Holy chad

[tribal blade]

and then i proceeded to get beat by the demo lock in the group because i was playing sin and couldn't ramp LOL

[short radish]

a tale as old as time

[tribal blade]

"ok bleeds are all out very nice"

"ok hit DM and KB"

"oh everything's dead gg"

[haughty mural]

So the demo outramped you

[tribal blade]

i started to just insta hit DM and KB then spread the bleeds after

seems better

[tribal blade]

haha all i saw was imps exploding and him shooting up

also trying to spread bleeds with these tanks in M0s is a nightmare

who are just olympic sprinting nonstop down entire corridors

[haughty mural]

As sub it was pretty chill

[tribal blade]

oh yeah my main rogue is sub

and it's complete vibe

doesn't matter how the tank pulls

[haughty mural]

As arms the sprinting was also painful on some occasions

Since you need to set up more

[tribal blade]

yeah i can see that

my guildie was saying how he hated having to sit in a full bladestorm and watch me burst the packs down

[haughty mural]

Didn’t play with a sub with my warrior

Luckily

[tribal blade]

have you seen ret

holy shit

forget about sub 3 button

watch them 1 button their way to victory doing crazy overall

[haughty mural]

Oh yeah - outdone some with perfect setup

On aoe

Since arms has no arms in ST

[tribal blade]

cleave goes brrr

[haughty mural]

Hell yea

And reap

[tribal blade]

and then in ST everything else goes womp womp

[haughty mural]

I hope I can come back to rogue in .5

When they’ll destroy slayer

[keen dome]

rogue tank spec in 0.7

[tribal blade]

oh are you in warrior prison now? damn

[haughty mural]

Yea.. on shout duty s1

[tribal blade]

damn

[haughty mural]

I’ll probably just raidlog at some point and play rogue outside of it

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[haughty mural]

I mean I also had fun with it and I know tuning is coming
But seeing the fun go away .5 is a bit of a downer

So what’s the point outside of doing my duty

[long sun]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[austere spindle]

Is "only during lust" new? On wowhead it says on low target count

[lilac stag]

His disillusionment is incredible. he’s already playing assa and m+ hasn’t even released yet.

[red vortex]

first time reading that too

[brisk onyx]

nice we can trigger this one

[short radish]

ikr dudes already prepping push keys

[keen dome]

the only keys I'm prepping to push are wasd as I run around the fountain

[lilac stag]

The season hasn’t started yet. Tuning, bug fixes and adjustments to the apl are happening. Things change. The guides get updated, but not instantly mate.

[mighty citrus]

fun is for the weak! 😄

[fair phoenix]

[drifting fable]

Anyone can help me understand this line in #subtlety-faq

In AoE DO NOT use :ShurikenStorm: instead, just ignore this optimization instead

instead just ignore this optimization instead?

[north schooner]

it's worded in a confusing way. You don't use this optimisation in aoe, just storm instead

[drifting fable]

Ok

Yeah it like stunlocked me

[cloud rover]

@vale pine

[drifting fable]

So ignore the first line in aoe and just spam storm

[vale pine]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[cloud rover]

Can you make it more clear Fuu?

in the FAQ

[drifting fable]

does this apply to aoe tho

[cloud rover]

It is kind of confusing reading it

[north schooner]

"Do not use this optimization in AoE, use storm instead"

[tepid trellis]

3 targets or less

[drifting fable]

aight

[vale pine]

i nope

you don't use strike in aoe

so not worth it

but well, lets see

[full coral]

hi, might be a dumb question since i might misunderstand/miss sth but how exactly did i reach 4 supercharged combo points in fights? i thought you only get 2 with shadowdance? i cant replicate it on a dummy and im confused :D

[lament anchor]

I put ">In AoE DO NOT use :ShurikenStorm: instead, just ignore this optimization instead can you explain this to me for my rogue" in chatgpt 😁

[tribal blade]

my guess is you pressed dance and used no finishers before the next pull in an M0 (i'm assuming)

so you went into the next pull with 2 supercharger already

[full coral]

i just did a rare on open world with normal opener, didnt have any supercharged left from before, was on 0 combo points

[tribal blade]

ah ok no idea then

i think it's highly likely you had used dance before that on a mob and used no finishers, then completely forgot they were there

OR it's some new amazing bug

[open coyote]

Yeah i think you have just clicked dance at some point

[full coral]

yeah maybe .. thanks for your help <3 do unused supercharged points just stay indefinitely in open world or do i lose them at some point? maybe i used dance just so long ago i didnt remember :D

[tribal blade]

yeah happens to me all the time in open world

but yes they stay there indefinitely, not if you log out though i think

[vale pine]

could be actually good sometimes

[tribal blade]

yeah preplanning for that if there's down time is good

[vale pine]

subtlety in Midnight

"you will do pre pull dance for supercharger, and you will like it"

[tribal blade]

i'm actually really happy they added apex to the cdm

so i can have a sound back for refunds again

[vale pine]

oh right

reminds me

[exotic steeple]

that would annoy me too much tho

[vale pine]

do you know if you can replace the texture of the proc effect the same way you can replace icons?

[exotic steeple]

those sound cues

[exotic steeple]

id love to know that aswell man the texture is way to big

[vale pine]

i am more concerned about the color

you need to make it obaque to even see, and it still has bad contrast in many content types

[exotic steeple]

yea true

purple would be cool

[solemn lance]

If we pre dance a fight then I assume we want t9 use 2 finishers before we dance again or will the supercharger stack up to 4?

[tribal blade]

most sub rogues have played with sound cues for refunds over the past 2 years or so

same as outlaw

[solemn lance]

Or is it same as before it'll stack to 4 but 2 decay

[exotic steeple]

yea but i dont like em

[tribal blade]

in open world they won't decay, but on starting keys or raid combat you'll drop to 2

[tribal blade]

fair enough

[barren wolf]

highest iq individuals

over 85

[vestal relic]

wait what , where is it ?

[tribal blade]

gEniUs

[barren wolf]

srry im just a hater

[vestal relic]

ty

[mellow magnet]

what spec do you think we will play?

[lilac stag]

whatever you want to play

[fleet wharf]

like even if we have an idea now, it won't matter after the tuning notes are announced tmr hopefully

[mellow magnet]

i want to play the better spec

[fleet wharf]

ask in 3 days time

[barren wolf]

sub

[fleet wharf]

or follow scath's advice, that is good

[barren wolf]

only playable rogue spec rn is sub

[tribal blade]

i highly recommend playing the spec you can perform the best on without thinking

[barren wolf]

outlaw is outlaw
assa can suck my cock ;3

[tribal blade]

that will be best when the raid is fresh

[lilac stag]

Which spec don’t you enjoy? THAT ONE will clearly be best.

[vestal relic]

says the red name

[barren wolf]

yes

and i can confidently say it

[lilac stag]

assa knows it’s ass

[dawn heron]

anything but pirate gen z spec

[lilac stag]

He’s just confident enough to say it.

[fleet wharf]

i dont get the pirate hate

[dawn heron]

not a hate, just too old for it

[barren wolf]

oh i just hate pirate since bfa so its just personal stuff

[mellow magnet]

i hate outlaw , i hope we dont play this

[marble sail]

Please come back jpc my beloved

[lilac stag]

Outlaw

[vestal relic]

no way we play outlaw imo

maybe on some bosses

[mellow magnet]

notlikegif

[vestal relic]

probably not the harder one

[lilac stag]

100% The play next week

No tier. No trinket. No fight timings.

[vestal relic]

oh heroic week ofc as usual

on heroic week outlaw op then they get nerf

and suck for the rest of the season

repeat

[lilac stag]

out doesn’t suck, just people don’t want to be arsed with it. Especially last couple of seasons.

[barren wolf]

isnt that sub that is strong for a week or two then everyone else catches up and sub is left behind

[fleet wharf]

more like it's good for early prog

and then assa catches a buff

[vestal relic]

kind of but for progress

outlaw is heroic week territory

last 3 season

on heroic week outlaw op then they get nerf
and suck for the rest of the season

this happend

[fleet wharf]

i dont think outlaw got nerfed after heroic week in tww did they?

[lilac stag]

Um actually now that vers is our worse stat, long term sustainability stonks are up

[vestal relic]

s1 100% and i believe s3 aswell not sure about s2

[lilac stag]

we’ve broken out of “scaling” jail.

[tribal blade]

yeah i would assume sub actually scales now

[lilac stag]

29% vers later

[fleet wharf]

idk outlaw's prob was the uptime issue, no?

[lilac stag]

[tribal blade]

even though we breakpoint haste, it won't be bad to have more haste than needed

[lilac stag]

Yep

[tribal blade]

they introduced that new thing to outlaw

if you don't attack for a bit you get more cdr

[fleet wharf]

so isn't it more probable that outlaw is better for prog cuz they're not as bound to uptime problems?

[lilac stag]

it wasn’t tuned high enough for uptime needed (see fury s3 for what was needed)

[fleet wharf]

yea, that's fair

[vestal relic]

even with the cdr compensation

[lilac stag]

The apm also off putting

[vestal relic]

they are still probably the worst spec for downtime

[fleet wharf]

i mean you played fury last season, so idk what leg you have to stand on

[vale pine]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[vestal relic]

so idk i still think progress on outlaw is probably worse than the 2 other spec but i could be wrong

[lilac stag]

Fury last season was vibe. This version of sub is fury with CDs

[fleet wharf]

I mean I also don't have ton of hopes of it being meta, but I feel it is more probable than it has been last expansion

[vestal relic]

yeah maybe, not by much imo

[exotic steeple]

did someone craft already? spark

[lilac stag]

outlaw will be fine if you want to play it. Uptime is an excuse.

[tribal blade]

i've mained outlaw in raid in the past and it's kinda miserable doing whack a mole simulator while trying to focus on mechanics