subtlety

[arctic spire]

like shindigg had last season if anyone remembers

i cant see the blizzard ui graphic shit, its so bad

[warm marlin]

that would be helpful wouldnt it

[gilded ferry]

so, log reviewing will become more important than ever?

[vale pine]

some examples, to showcase what i mean.

• Dance feels way less flexible because you align it to secret, if you need to use dance 2 times in a short period, you need to send 2nd dance without secret. This could be solved by giving free secret uses during dance.
• The haste scaling makes macros for gcd efficiency very important, which i don't like. I think good gameplay design needs some amount of wiggle room
• The aoe gameplay is kinda boring, you rly just spam storm + bp

as mentioned, i think subtlety is in a good position compared to some others, but it does not mean the gameplay couldn't improve from the current iteration

[gilded ferry]

Do you think that these changes were made also to aim a more effective 1 button rotation/assistant?

[vale pine]

i don't think one button specifically was the goal

i think it was just a gamble

like in roulette, you can go all in on a number or color and either win or lose

blizz is likely well aware that the majority of the playerbase is long term players

midnight is not targeted at them, but an attempt to make wow as a whole more attractive to new players

thats why we see all the simplifications

there is a higher chance a player will stick with a game, if gameplay is obviouse and simple

same with addons and other parts of the game

the one button rotation just has the benefit of working better with simplified design

I personally am not entirely sure how well this worked out, we are in the honeymoon phase of a new xpac

tho there are some indications on the success, but i don't want to take away anyones excitement for the game

in the end its all about having fun, and if you have fun, thats perfect.

i enjoyed doing the m0 world tour, was relaxing

[gilded ferry]

having 3 cooldowns is really weird

[vale pine]

think its fine

blades is the major cooldown, but even after xpacs still kinda meh

this gives dance the majority of power

[lilac stag]

I like dance having the juice

[vale pine]

secret is our "strong finisher", which pairs well with it

[swift tinsel]

anecdotally I don't think I've ever seen as many advertisements or pr moves for an xpac since...Wotlk

[vale pine]

you could make blades passive during dance

[lilac stag]

blades giving a Sectech each dance would be a nice little buff

[swift tinsel]

they even had Amaury Guichon make a chocolate Onyxia head

[vale pine]

wow had multiple discord adds even

[tropic pier]

me when i untalent assa

[swift tinsel]

I've seen multiple tv/youtube ads, sponsored non-wow-creator content, etc

even Critical Role is having segments

granted a bunch of them voice blizz characters

they seem to really be pushing for exposure for new players

[gilded ferry]

i thought the anchor was sectec

[vale pine]

yes

but this does not mean that dance isn't the source of the power

dance is flexibly due to the 2 charges

which means you can optimize the use

and you ideally want to use secret in every dance obv.

so secret becomes the anchor to whcih we align dance too

which is btw. nothing new, we played like this since a while

the flip site of it is

if you want to use dance with secret

the entire rotation becomes a lot more restrictive

[gilded ferry]

ofc im still leveling, never had issues syncing those 2

[vale pine]

you don't

well you use one dance in blades without secret

the point is rather

your use is quite strict

you know when to use dance/secret and can't alter the use that much

thats the flip side, your flexibility is lower

we still have good burst on demand, so its probably not a big deal

[gilded ferry]

surprised to see black powder back

[tropic pier]

this thing looks pretty good

[keen dome]

It never left

[tropic pier]

hard to tell which trinkets are in simc and which arent though

[potent frigate]

Hey! Using this macro:

#showtooltip Black Powder
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

Why does the game still prioritize Black powder over Coup de Grace? About 1 in 10 uses it does use Coup de Grace, but mostly uses Black powder.

[fluid lintel]

So, I might be wrong here

But typically you'd want to do a cast if known macro

Leeme see if I can find an example from the warrior discord with heroic strike

#showtooltip
/use [known:Heroic Strike] Heroic Strike; Mortal Strike
You'd want it to look like this

Replace heroic strike and mortal strike with Coup and black powder

My assumption is it is thinks you don't know coup on occasion, so it just casts the spell you do

[potent frigate]

I might try this. But I've realised, it AoE, it does prioritize Black powder about 1 in 10 uses, but in ST it does use the Coup about 9 out of 10 times. Kinda weird usage. But I'll try yours.

[fluid lintel]

ye it might work

Proc macros like this are weird sometimes

[vale pine]

you don't need it in st

[potent frigate]

I know I don't need it in ST, it was just for testing

[vale pine]

i did not notice it working incorrectly

but interessting

[muted girder]

I'm also using the macro, haven't noticed it not working at all.

[potent frigate]

Wait, I am actually brain lagging.

I changed the macro on NON STEALTH bar, but didn't chage for stealth bar

[muted girder]

thatll do it

[potent frigate]

so when I am in Shadow dance, it was using the regular spell lol

I just realised when I was replacing the spell with the macro that I still had regular black powder.

nvm, works now. Thanks for help guys.

Lemme follow up with another question. I was so used to WA on all my chars for tracking CD's and such. Is there any workaround with addons to track specific spells?

[muted girder]

There is the CDM blizz implemented. and addons to improve it a bit.

[swift tinsel]

ellesmere's ui showing a ton of promise

once it gets everything released

[lavish pagoda]

How is sub looking in both raid and m+ compared to assa and outlaw? Im thinking about making the switch from assa.

[muted girder]

I've been using AtrocityUI the last 2 xpacs. Like it a lot. And super easy to set up

[uncut scarab]

so just to make sure im understanding this, i consume the ancient arts proc with 1 finisher, and then if conditons are still met i shadow strike again and repeat?

for

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[vale pine]

sub looks good so far

[unique ermine]

Is it just me or is the energy regen on assa reallllly bad

[vale pine]

iirc not that much worse than it was in the past

but you notice it more

on subtlety, you mostly have energy problems outside of cooldowns

so during them, you don't notice it

[lilac stag]

energy not a problem outside of dance. It’s pacing. Not a negative.

[willow pawn]

Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - ☑️ Yes

How do you track this

[old wave]

track it with cooldown manager

[willow pawn]

Blizzards default has this?

[old wave]

yep

should be under buffs

[willow pawn]

this is all i have

T.T

[old wave]

you have it... its the purple dude

[willow pawn]

im lost

xDD

oh i see

LMAOO

[unique hornet]

Hello guys, quick question, was the mass effect of Blind removed with Midnight?

[willow pawn]

yah

[unique hornet]

Sadje

[willow pawn]

ohh but you cant track ancient arts

im assuming its the black lines in your UI right

[low aspen]

I just swapped to sub from nearly 20 years of assassination, and I have to say, this spec is ridiculous. 5 buttons, there are so many holes in my bars.

But my question: if I got a 220 sword and my offhand is a 207 dagger, do I throw the sword in the offhand? Sub doesn't have any dual daggers quirks, does it?

[torn tide]

yes

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[torn tide]

okay i forgot the command

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[torn tide]

there we go

[swift tinsel]

you want to use double daggers or you lose resource generation

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[low aspen]

even on a ~20 ilvl difference?

[tough coral]

What are our haste breakpoint %s?

[vale pine]

you rly want to use 2 daggers, any 1h weapon is noticably worse

[vale pine]

~18%

[sullen hare]

get a crap green dagger off the ah over the 220 sword. it'll be better, trust

you essentially nuke your combo point economy by having a slow offhand

[low marten]

Is it worth crafting a dagger this week or do we save for 17th ?

[sullen hare]

I'm sending a craft the moment I have the spark and crests

[low aspen]

I have a 207 dagger, just figured the huge ilvl jump would make a difference

[sullen hare]

since we're doing a dagger with hunt anyway

[sullen hare]

!st

um.

!cp

nope

anyway, shadow techniques isn't normalized so you're losing out on stacks super hard

[vale pine]

!oh

[sullen hare]

!sword

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[sullen hare]

^--- that one

[vale pine]

someone already posted it above tho

[sullen hare]

I was elected to lead, not to read fuu

[low marten]

So I’m better just sending the craft then I guess since I have 224 daggers

[sullen hare]

weapon is always a huge first craft unless you happen to have a raid dagger fall in your lap

even then, you can use it in your offhand as an embellishment

[low marten]

Yeah it’s our bis in oh for the season right

[vale pine]

dagger craft is very low risk to be wrong

[low marten]

Yeah thanks for the input, will be clearing nm hc then into myth so wasn’t sure if I held or not

[vale pine]

holding is always the option with the "most optimal" path

but the risk on rogue is typically low, a weapon is just a very strong craft

[gilded ferry]

goddamn finished campaign lv 85

[low marten]

Yeah thanks a lot for the feedback

[lilac stag]

[strong bison]

I assume bloodmallet is incorrect and our best trinket isn’t a crafted dark moon deck lmao

I member for outlaw early on in another season the sim was messed up because they didn’t have enough haste

Surely we don’t need this much verse

[young harness]

do i only enter shadow dance with 5+ combo points so i can go into secret technique instantly?

[lilac stag]

6+

Ideally 7 with 4-5 sht stacks

[young harness]

whats sht mean sorry

[hushed kelp]

Shadow Techniques

[young harness]

is there anyway to see how many stacks i have without it being in top right of my screen

[wet echo]

there's new buff-tracking UI in the game

[tulip light]

you can track it via cool down manager

[wet echo]

or you can use an addon

whatever you prefer

[shell vector]

What are you guys taking for your amani rep necklace? the Crit/Haste or Vers/Mast?

[young harness]

so on boss opener u shadowstrike>backstab to 6+ then go into shadowdance opener/rotation?

[tulip light]

crit / haste

[lilac stag]

There’s no backstabbing in the opener or dance

[young harness]

how do u get to 6+ combo points then

[languid crow]

stealth -> shadow strike

[young harness]

ah am dumb

[lilac stag]

Since you said finish at 5 I’m assuming you haven’t read a guide out just skimmed over it.

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[young harness]

any good youtube guides as well?

[wind cosmos]

Whats the utility of rogue on raid

[vale pine]

antophic poison

[alpine wraith]

i do guides but the full rotation one wont be out for a bit until maybe they change things

but there is a simplified one and an apex one rn

[rustic mortar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[uncut scarab]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[arctic spire]

what does it mean that if ancient arts is up? Like the "buff" that refunds your combo points or?

maybe im reading it wrong, but i dont understand ancient arts as a on or off buff

[tulip light]

yes if your screen goes black

if that is up you DONT strike

[arctic spire]

so if im in shadow blades window and i have full combo points, SD is active and i have like 14 stacks of Shadow technique, i use shadowstrike in ST?

instead of evis?

[steel sierra]

Is there any inherent disadvantage to crafting a dagger now as opposed to in a few weeks when M+/Mythic open?

[wicked urchin]

jpc back this tier???

[wispy pebble]

are sims accurate when i just replace my race with the one i want to sim?
Currently Belf, looking at haranir

[tulip light]

you can send it there is no need to do so since the content doesnt require it

[wispy pebble]

materials should get cheaper if you wait though. So i guess price would be the disadvantage

[boreal narwhal]

Been reading the rotation guide and I just want to double check if I'm understanding the usage of Shadow dance correctly.

Do I always make sure Secret Technique is up before using shadow dance? (And assuming I have 6+ combo points). Like I use the first charge of shadow dance with ST at the same time with the macro, I'll use the second charge of dance almost right after and then the dance charge after that should come off cooldown a few seconds later but here I wait a tiny bit more for Secret tech?

[west tide]

brooo theres no way its not a dagger tier

[wispy pebble]

Huh? Are we dancing with high combo points? Is it for apex proc?

[boreal narwhal]

6 combo points so that we can use Secret technique right away

Is my understanding at least

[wispy pebble]

oh damn looks like it. Ive still been dancing with low combo points that will take me days to unmuscle memory... fuuuuuuck

[boreal narwhal]

lol

[wispy pebble]

but yea we only use dance with SecTec or right after first dance in Shadow blades (unless im outdated on that)

[boreal narwhal]

I'm going from sub rogue from Mop classic to this too so my muscle memory isn't quite there yet

[limpid sage]

You guys know if conquest gear was upgradable on the beta?

Because I was thinking the on use trinket might be a good thing to farm the 17th

Asking because honor gear isn’t upgradable

[chrome palm]

did the trinket get buffed or something? it was like 200 agi on use last i checked, insanely weak

[limpid sage]

Don’t think so - I’m using it on my shaman and the 217 honor version sims 2% better than the lynx trinket at 237

Ofc that’s also with 1 min cds

Just thinking if it’s a nice inbetween piece

[edgy star]

I don't think I've seen my screen go black yet from ancient arts

is there something needed on the cooldown manager

Ah yeah, got it

[proper eagle]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Bubbling wax:

• Can be pickpocketed from kobolds in e.g. The Ringing Deeps. (needs The Final Candle questline completed.)
• Only use it on one weapon. (does not stack)

[edgy star]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[analog granite]

How did you enable it?

[edgy star]

It just shows up as a purple mark around the center of the screen

[analog granite]

Yeah but I think I got it disabled somehow, doesn't work on any of my classes and i'm not sure which setting it is

[swift tinsel]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[swift tinsel]

there we go

[analog granite]

Ah okay should be fine then, I turned it to 100 it was set to 0

Thanks

You'd think that higher opacity would make you unable to see it or is that just me

[kind fern]

is there any reason to not macro ss/bs together to save a button press?

[weak vector]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[iron plover]

should you cast coup de grace in aoe?

[opaque trail]

For pure dps u sugget magar or just orc ?

[fleet wharf]

right now it's mechagnome or panda

[opaque trail]

but magar or orc ? : )

[bleak night]

belf

[fleet wharf]

maybe learn to read?

[bleak night]

i mean the question is fair enough, he likes how orc model looks but wants to know which is higher dps

[opaque trail]

XD

[bleak night]

i'd assume maghar

[opaque trail]

i thought so

[bleak night]

but i dont know for sure

[young harness]

is panda rly top pve race right now lol

[bleak night]

food buff is op yes

[analog granite]

According to bloodmallet human is top dps

Is it not accurate?

[opaque trail]

i know kela is right but he just answer a question that i didnt asked

i wanna play orc style

[analog granite]

Actually panda is bottom 3 in blood mallet, I guess that's without food buff then

[young harness]

yeah thats why i was asking

[hollow wigeon]

Are we putting Master Haste on Farstrider dagger?

Mastery lol

or crit Mastery

[tulip light]

Both fine depending on haste level

[lilac stag]

Orc

AFAIK

[bleak night]

my assumptions have been known to be wrong from time to time

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fallen glacier]

do yall find that sometimes secret tech doesnt fill combopoints even with the apex proc?

[swift tinsel]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[swift tinsel]

It do be a thing

[clever wolf]

Most seasons I play Sub/Assassination flex for whichever is better on raid bosses, is there comms on that being the case this season or is one going to always be better? like is Assass that far ahead atm or vice versa?

[swift tinsel]

Will be determined by tuning

But either/both will likely be good

[astral mountain]

Would someone mind pinning that post with all the recommended addons please

[wicked urchin]

delve gear disabled rn?

[upbeat cradle]

have any engineer tried the Scorcher of soul or the Curator of boom embelishments ?

[fair phoenix]

someone have a good ui?

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[fleet wharf]

If you're looking for just out of the box experience, I'd give Luxthos a shot

BetterCooldownManager is also ok

If you like tinkering with stuff, make your own with Arcui

[fair phoenix]

between the arcui and better cdmanager

wich one

[fleet wharf]

I'd try BCDM first

If you're unhappy, then try Arcui

or just download luxthos' pack

[fair phoenix]

k

[weak vector]

We're good to craft our dagger this week yeah?

[ivory sparrow]

Looks like Pandaren and Mechagnome are best early in the patch, and Human takes over once you’ve got some gear. Am I getting that right?

[shrewd monolith]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spare totem]

How's sub doing in m0's?

[weak vector]

I'm pretty consistently topping meters. Feels good. Lack of utility sucks, but otherwise having a blast

[spare totem]

sweet i just got into sub. never tried it before

[brisk raptor]

what race everyone playing for alliance?

[hazy breach]

Nop

Pandaren and mecha best throughout the entire patch

[cyan saddle]

Has anyone else seen a weird lag when you drop from combat before you can go into stealth again? It almost feels like its 2 gcds worth of wait before it lets me restealth

I only notice it in sub

[muted girder]

think its a shadowdance problem. only time ive noticed it happening to me is when dance is still up when im out of combat

[cyan saddle]

hmmmm could be. I'll have to pay more attention next time to see! thanks!

[hazy breach]

You can macro/cancelaura dance into your stealth so you can stealth anyway

You can find the macro on wowhead

[civic lava]

does the macro let you get out of stealth by re-pressing it ? like the current stealth ability button do ?

[north schooner]

no but you can let it do that by removing the ! in front of !Stealth

[civic lava]

Thanks !

[lilac stag]

!stealth is meant to keep you in when spamming the button

[warm marlin]

Orc is arguably about as good as mecha/panda

On use racial good

[tall patio]

Are we still ST shadowstriking for Apex in M+ without weaponmaster?

[brisk onyx]

sure

why not

[chrome palm]

pure st fight

[bleak night]

beat the tank pog

[willow pawn]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[plush roost]

Bet u wish u had 169 ilvl Charrote instead of that warlock huh

[chrome palm]

I hate m0 I hate m0 I hate m0

[warm marlin]

charrote

[pine oyster]

anyone got a trinket tier list?

[sturdy moat]

Anyone know how to deal with perma in combat bug in voidstorm

[brisk onyx]

wowhead

[spiral needle]

whats the over/under on ancient arts ever being trackable in the CDM

[quick plume]

can you explain how you think "over/under" works

[tribal blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[exotic steeple]

Arent we actually in a good spot tho, thinking of the incoming
Tuning

Or atleast not in a bad one where as you mostly know mages and wl getting nerfed lol

[willow knoll]

Rogue is in the best spot imo

Good but not too good

[placid storm]

Heyo! how did you manage to track coup in arc this way and are you using any custom icons overall?

[gilded thistle]

has tricks always been a 1hr buff for sub?

[grand viper]

trickster

so - always, given you're specced into it

[gilded thistle]

so since tww then

[grand viper]

yea, sorry. since trickster

[gilded thistle]

alright

so my discovery is very not new then

[bleak night]

just slightly late

[gilded thistle]

well

the discovery that it has no range cap

and doesn't fade if your redirect target dies

[grand viper]

yea

[bleak night]

that part is very funny

[gilded thistle]

yeah

lmao

group wipes, tank rez instantly, i just sit there beating on shit while it slowly tries to run back to him at the waypoint

very funny

[tribal blade]

i've actually bricked keys to this before

[floral shadow]

guys sry if you've already answered, but how do you fix this macro ? It's not working for me : #showtooltip
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[dense mountain]

is your macro on your stealth bar?

[stuck arrow]

Should work. What's mpt working?

That said - you also likely just straight up dont need the macro. We should have abundant button space

I've got 4 buttons I'm used to using that just are kinda empty, and I've removed a lot of my modifier buttons.

[potent heath]

i personally stack a coup de grace and i do macro after

it's working for me

[static jolt]

Uhm am I a dumbfuck? Doesn’t the coup replace Evi for the cast?

Is it a separate button?

Or rather isn’t it passive

[stuck arrow]

If you dont have coup up you technically dont know the ability so the macro skips it.

[potent heath]

This is

[static jolt]

But why does it need to be bound? What am I missing? Sorry for being dumb

[tulip light]

It’s just nice to have 2 in 1 in aoe some might argue it’s bad since you don’t want to insta coup everytime

Reason is you don’t want to coup natty if a dance is around the corner (few sec tho only)

But not sure how big the gain (if even) is. I haven’t followed the numbers on this one

[static jolt]

So basically you skip Evi but don’t wanna waste time just waiting

[tulip light]

Not sure what you mean by skip Evis but yes you don’t want to sit on coup for too long. It was like 3-4s until dance iirc but not sure on this one. Personally I use the macro and just send

Im sure there will be optimisations when it matter eg raid / m+ release

[frigid prawn]

I'm holding my coup sometimes longer in dungeons. When like one mob is alive at 20%, I use BP to have coup ready for the next pull, is that badly wrong?

[static jolt]

i mean coup is essentially just empowered evi at this point no? so is it really necessary to have a separate bind to it? that is what im not getting.

[hazy breach]

Its a BP+coup macro

Not evis+coup

[static jolt]

no i understand that, what i mean is, cant you just press BP and use evi when you want to?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[static jolt]

ok good i thought i was missing something

so, should we be holding the coup?

[chrome palm]

It’s hard to say because there is strong synergy with coup/sc/apex in aoe but if you’re holding a while you’re possibly dropping flawless form or overcapping escalating blade

[static jolt]

atm i have sectec macro'd into dance and wait to have max CP before entering SD

is that wrong?

if you have slow fingers it saves a global no?

[hot seal]

Thats correct if u use dance on full combo points

[shadow lance]

I got my dance bind and the sectech/dance bind

So, I'm not forced to build full cp before entering dance if situation require me to

[static jolt]

i mean you can technically still do it during a global to avoid proccing sectec

[shadow lance]

Yes but no

It's not* like we struggling finding keybinds

And it kinda wasting time on it

[static jolt]

more like, youre used to not having space so your muscle memory has all these t hings

and now you cant just unlearn that

[shadow lance]

Not sure what you mean

But sending dance through a gcd without having dance benefit on it is kinda bad

But, to one his own gameplay

[tribal blade]

that's an incredibly dangerous game to play

mess it up and that's your dps going bye bye

[static jolt]

i mean it doesnt really happen since i will hold in most cases to get hte max CP

but its happened like twice the entire week

[tribal blade]

general rule for sub is to have every ability on a seperate bind

and then have the macros

you definitely want to have dance and sectec on their own binds along with the macro

[static jolt]

i do have sectec separate

just not SD

[tribal blade]

oh ok

[static jolt]

i guess i should

[tribal blade]

oh yeah you should

[static jolt]

the one button i dont have separate is backstab

i have the macro for SHS and BS

cba otherwise

[tribal blade]

you might have stance issues with that one but generally should be fine

[static jolt]

the one real issue is the lag servers seem to be having

the extra CPs are slow in loading

and you input commands before you can execute

[tribal blade]

yeah it's been pretty bad, sub becomes unplayable

[static jolt]

i end up using 1 CP envenoms lol

[tribal blade]

also my dance+sectec macro fucks up when the world lag is bad

it'll send sectec but not dance

[static jolt]

do you have sectec above dance on the macro?

ive only ever had the opposite happen which wasnt too bad tbh

[tribal blade]

yeah that one is more salvagable

sending sectec outside dance because of lag is pure depression

[sharp torrent]

am I going crazy or do you sometimes not get combo points back from the apex talent when using secret technique

[shadow lance]

Doesn't proc when subtlety up

It's a known bug

[sharp torrent]

ahh! thank you! I thought I was reading something wrong

[tribal blade]

*premed

[shadow lance]

Yes, sorry, my brain still floating in beer

[tribal blade]

dw i fuck things up ALL the time in here haha

[shadow lance]

Btw Graham, how you see rogue in M+ this incoming season?

[hot seal]

No aoe stop, no raid buff

It wont be good

Unless the dmg is out of this world

[shadow lance]

https://tenor.com/view/gif-gif-19494007

Yep yep, that's what I was claiming to my guildies

[dim stream]

how are rogue specs on m+?

[hot seal]

I mean sub is strong, pretty sure its gonna be fine

[lilac stag]

Lagged CPs are part of the API. So if you’re using personal resource bar, or any addon that uses the personal resource bar api they do not fill instantly.

[hot seal]

U just dont have a buff/cr/lust/utiltiy

[hollow spear]

In open world, you get the lag even with arcui

The voidzone is especially egregious for some reason

[lilac stag]

pvp

[hollow spear]

Ah yeah that

The last time I got in touch with pvp, it was for collecting chests

The pop turned from one Russian once in a blue moon to 80% Russian

[lilac stag]

that’s the pvp zone so I’m assuming it’s taxed the heaviest on the servers. Just normal 🍝

[hollow spear]

What was our conclusion on the rep trinket? Not sure I wanna grind that rep...

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[lilac stag]

It’s a decently easy grind since only 7. I did it on the outside chance it ends up being something stupid good in delves or such

[fleet wharf]

Yea, the rep trinket is the easiest to get cuz the rep lvl req is the lowest

just put the weekly 1000 rep towards it and you'll have it after one weekly event you have to do anyway

[wet anvil]

hey guys, can someone help me with this macro: #showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab.
In stealth i see shadowstrike, but when im no in stealth i see grey shadowstrike instead of backstab icon

[fleet wharf]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[fleet wharf]

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast [bonusbar:1] shadowstrike; Shadow Dance

this is what I used to use last expac, just replace dance with backstab, hopefully should work

[wet anvil]

you dont understand me, the macro i send works, its from wowhead but the problem is, i see shadowstrike while im not in stealth instead of backstab icon, but it works i can press it as backstab out of stealth, and in stealth its pressing the shadowstrike, just the icons are not changing

[fleet wharf]

take off the shadowstrike after tooltip line

[wet anvil]

oh, got it thanks man

[pliant pendant]

trinket list ?

pre s1

[fleet wharf]

wowhead

[vale pine]

wowhead only has season 1 trinkets (no pre raid)

[lilac stag]

IV I think did preseason bis lists

[fleet wharf]

TIL

[zealous maple]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[torn tide]

which one do i pick?

[tribal blade]

crit+haste

better to have too much haste than not enough atm

[mint swift]

It’s so weird seeing sub take haste ngl

[torn tide]

cool

[tribal blade]

yeah this is truly uncharted territory

[azure ember]

anyone elses raider.io in a different language?

[torn tide]

thanks

[lilac stag]

Excuse me. Ashes of Embersoul would like a word

[tribal blade]

lol i forgot about that trinket

imagine if that was any other stat on it, would have been huge

[mental saffron]

Are other classes tier sets even close to the power gain we get? 12.7% increase seems like a pretty strong tier set

[stoic spire]

Regarding trinkets- if not raiding and using only m+ ones. Are we forced to only use 2 min trinkets and delay blades each time? Or just use 2 passive ones?

[ebon compass]

am i supposed to be sending finishers only with the black blizzard aura thingy

like be at max cp, have sec tec available, but press ss again to proc black thingy before pressing sectec

oh hey @mint swift you're in here

halp

[eternal abyss]

What is this?
What should I go for?

[azure thicket]

all my blue heroic gear has haste on it

except for some 183 bracers

i am the speed

[brisk onyx]

map buff, just pick what you like

[main falcon]

Second from left

[brisk raptor]

Just trying to make sure I understand AoE correctly. Any time there’s more than 1 target, during or outside dance, we prio black powder unless we have coup?

[vale pine]

yes

you basically use storm + bp

and coup if its up

[lilac stag]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[ebon compass]

is ancient arts the black thing or is shadow technique the black thing

[fathom adder]

ancient arts

[ebon compass]

ty

[modern sentinel]

ancient farts

[ebon compass]

the opposite of origami

one is the art of the fold

the other is the fart of the old

[modern sentinel]

[surreal glacier]

:garfyuh:

[edgy star]

Is it ok using a non-dagger in the offhand?

[tepid trellis]

not really

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[final moat]

Hi which talents for questing?

[hallow matrix]

do you sectec on 6+ CP or should you always go 7?

[tepid trellis]

think the rule is still 6+

[hallow matrix]

ok ty

[final moat]

I looked on wowhead but its the war within talents for open world questing

[swift tinsel]

I usually just roll with the m+ build for open world

[lilac stag]

just run the m+ build. I run numbing poison.

[true citrus]

is 8% haste terrible ?

[lilac stag]

Yes. But it’s literally 6 days of gearing on irrelevant content

[tribal blade]

sub will feel absolutely horrible with 8% haste

i got myself up to 20%

more than needed, but feels nice

[modern sentinel]

does sub want 25% ish haste like outlaw also?

[floral shadow]

more like 19-20%

[lilac stag]

684-700 haste

[tribal blade]

i'm at i think 714 or so atm

[lilac stag]

people keep increasing haste percent. lol

Just use the hard numbers

[tribal blade]

yeah 684 is the magic number

my fear is during inital gearing i get no haste gear and drop way down

[modern sentinel]

easier to remember 2 numbers rather than 3

[lilac stag]

Especially when they’re wrong and we’re spreading misinformation

[modern sentinel]

I have no idea about sub,im just here asking a random sub spec question

[lilac stag]

Love me some char sheet approximations

[lilac stag]

And the correct answer is no we don’t need a percent of haste. We need 684 haste. 700 is more comfy.

[mint swift]

Yea

[lilac stag]

Which is way south of the 25% you were inquiring about

[modern sentinel]

700 looks better,so im going with that if I play sub

[mint swift]

Rogue discord is the place I’ve talked the most haha. Out of the wow discords at least

[lilac stag]

Are you tumbleweeding it?

[modern sentinel]

yee

[lilac stag]

Likely a ring swap. The stuggle swapping may actually be sub not really wanting vers

[edgy star]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[lilac stag]

idk where Vers ended up on gunslinger

[edgy star]

When I was reading into this, I was expecting a lot morethan just every other shadowstrike 😛

[modern sentinel]

outlul is haste untill %,your fav and then crit,vers

[lilac stag]

Mastery still goes nuts for sub in aoe

[modern sentinel]

ye saw that

[lilac stag]

What MH is recommended to craft for outlaw?

[modern sentinel]

im not that sweaty gamer anymore tbh, mostly normal/hc and some m+

uh,any agi 1h

[vale pine]

sounds like a pleasent surprise then

[lilac stag]

Couldn’t remember if there was a fist weapon with embellishment

vs the reg stuff

[modern sentinel]

hunt or void on weapon

had to check faq

hope I can craft my own leather shite this expansion,going good so far

[lilac stag]

Did you do skinning as well? Those epic skins are big 💰

[modern sentinel]

ya

[hallow matrix]

do we play around the silent storm buff at all?

[spare oar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brazen stone]

sub or sin for M0s/mythic +

[mint swift]

What about the loud storm buff

[mint swift]

Also, no idea to know yet

Blizzard has stated they will do tuning before m+ comes out
If you mean right this instant, idk
I've tried all 3 specs and assa feels kinda stinky to play so i'd go with sub if you mean pure enjoyment

[brazen stone]

kinda just watever does the most damage in M0's

tryna get my mythic 0's out the way

[modern sentinel]

stuff dies fast so kinda hard to say

[mint swift]

Honestly you can play whatever you want, they aren't hard

[hallow matrix]

sub does more dmg

[mint swift]

From my testing, sub is the better of the three though

[hallow matrix]

m0 falls over and you have burst for every pack

[mint swift]

Yea, exactly

It's really hard to get a 100% concrete gague on what numbers are like rn. Hell, it's never possible to get an exact 100% either way even inside the season

[modern sentinel]

I hope they buff ass and out abit atleast,but what do I know

[tepid trellis]

buff sub nerf outlaw

[modern sentinel]

sub doesnt need buff

[tepid trellis]

yes!

[hallow matrix]

outlaw doesnt need a nerf lmao

[modern sentinel]

you damn scalers

[tepid trellis]

outlaw needs 40% nerf

kill that thing

[maiden oar]

yeah i have to do psychotic stuff to get 2 dances in blades rn

it SUCKS

im at like 430 haste

[tepid trellis]

the fuck does that have to do with haste lol

[maiden oar]

uh

sectech cd

[modern sentinel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/465486768435625984/1087214288327946280/d498b9279a6c386a214d00f50a53c9fc870b0e906eea1bd5135c59457d9f91bd_1.gif.gif

[tribal blade]

oh ouch

[maiden oar]

maybe its also bc no 4pc

[tepid trellis]

you cant do 2x sectech in blades yet anyway

[maiden oar]

no i know but i have to like

[tribal blade]

just send dances back to back yeah

[maiden oar]

hold sectech quite a bit

bc if i just dance every time sectechs back then i dont have 2 dances for blades ever

[brazen stone]

does this look accurate for sub rogue keys spec

[maiden oar]

i ran a few sims to check what it does at my haste % and it holds sectech for awhile too

[mint swift]

RAT

[mint swift]

How about this:
Nerf arms

[modern sentinel]

yes

[tribal blade]

arms has been through enough

[modern sentinel]

my warr is fury,dunno how warrs are doing anyway

[mint swift]

Tbh i just want survival and SP buffs ngl

Would be swag

[mint swift]

Graham exposed for using light mode

smh

[tepid trellis]

you are limited by dance cd in terms of dance casts between major cds

and the answer for how many inbetween

its just 2

[tribal blade]

yessir

[mint swift]

Just dance faster duh

I'm p sure there was a quest in troll place to help someone dance

[modern sentinel]

use the dance toy for faster dance

[maiden oar]

i was under the impression people on beta were able to have sectech line up better due to ideal haste extending dance length + lowering sectech cd + 4pc letting u get a sectech in the last global of the 2nd dance in blades

and rn i have to hold sectech awhile or send w.o dance

[mint swift]

Ok what about this
Make the spec even more streamline and give 2 chargs of tech
Bliz when

[modern sentinel]

ok, what if they combine sub and sin to 1 spec

[tepid trellis]

what if outlaw remove

[mint swift]

What if they just make rogue a 1 spec class

No

you sill trash panda
Outlaw is cool! >:(

[modern sentinel]

bard 3 spec

[tepid trellis]

outlaw is pure vomit

[maiden oar]

idk i was just told never ever hold sectech or sectech w/o dance earlier

and i think i have to do that sometimes

[modern sentinel]

stealthi arent you danish?

[tepid trellis]

50%

[marsh meteor]

ish?

[modern sentinel]

ok so he is wrong since he is danish

[tepid trellis]

the other 50% is korean

so ive got gaming cheats

so im right

[modern sentinel]

coin toss rights

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/getout-gif-16327023334064302194

[tepid trellis]

• arent you from the black sheep of the north

fcking finns

[modern sentinel]

ye im swedish/finnish

[tepid trellis]

so the worst northern combo

thats rough

condolences

[lilac stag]

and plays outlaw

[tepid trellis]

hope you get it fixed

[modern sentinel]

damn

[lilac stag]

💀 💀 💀

[modern sentinel]

[void ocean]

whats ur favourite finnisher

[tepid trellis]

the amount of haste you need to actually lower sectech cd my any decent margin is insane, 684 haste points puts it at like 19.smth

[modern sentinel]

face

oh, wow?

[tepid trellis]

the way you double sectech reliably is just with the haste on-use trinket

[alpine wraith]

we get haste mainly for sht and a bit for sec tech

[maiden oar]

are you just dry secteching to preserve the 2 charges for blades then

[tepid trellis]

thats all there is to

only reason we go haste

is for dance duraiton

no other reason really

[maiden oar]

rn its synced to dance charges and if i send it with a charge every time its back i never have 2 for blades

no matter what i do

[tribal blade]

@tepid trellis charrend was talking about aggressively sending sectec+dances, then delaying blades to get sectec and enough dance charges for next blades

[tepid trellis]

yeh cuz you cant

[modern sentinel]

sub zero has good finishers

[tepid trellis]

itsa charge system

-,-

[maiden oar]

yeah

[tepid trellis]

you need to bank up charges

[maiden oar]

i was told in here earlier that i never ever delay sectech and everything is anchored to it

[tribal vortex]

Hold blades for like 5-10 sec and you are ok

[maiden oar]

but if i just play it like the old cadence then im delaying it

[tepid trellis]

2 dances with blades

2 inbtween

[maiden oar]

which is fine im used to 2 dances but

[tepid trellis]

2 dance with blades again

[maiden oar]

i think being told to never delay sectecch tricked me hehe

[void ocean]

that game was made after your anthem afaik... the Finnish Hymn

[tribal vortex]

He is saying he doesn't have dances due to haste

[tribal blade]

cool cool

[maiden oar]

dance is static

[modern sentinel]

[tribal vortex]

But in general SB is like 100 sec cd

[tepid trellis]

and that is not a thing

[tribal vortex]

not 90

[maiden oar]

what i was trying to say was that ur up a dance charge if the 2nd dance in blades has sectech at the tail end of it

[tribal vortex]

Now I don't understand :p

[maiden oar]

bc u go:
2s - blades + dance + sectech
(delay 2nd dance in blades so u get the sectech 19~s later at the tail end of it)
21s - sectech (1 dance charge remaining)

but rn i go:
2s - blades + dance + sectech
9s - dance again
22s - dance + sectech ( 0 charges left)

so im treading water if i dance on cd instead of having 1 extra to sit on for next blades

thats what i meant by haste / 4pc

[tribal vortex]

What is the duration of SB?

[maiden oar]

i could still be misunderstanding something but thats what im trying to get across

[tribal vortex]

isn't it like 16?

[maiden oar]

20

with 4pc

[tribal vortex]

Without it I mean

[maiden oar]

16

[tribal vortex]

Ok so now you just cast dance b2b in SB

[maiden oar]

u delay the 2nd one so sectechs in it

[tribal vortex]

Without tier set not possible

[maiden oar]

with 4pc and correct haste value

yeah

[tribal vortex]

yeah ok I was talking about at the moment

[maiden oar]

so im saying right now if i want to pair a dance with the 22s sectech AND also do 2 dances in blades

[lilac stag]

nothing matters at the moment.

[tribal vortex]

nothing matters ever tbh

[maiden oar]

i must break the earlier mentioned rule of always sectech on cd and also always pair sectech with dance

[lilac stag]

all the optimizations are basically around 4pc

[maiden oar]

and i was saying playing around that feels kind of strange sometimes thats all

[void ocean]

https://giphy.com/gifs/cat-pain-nub-sLkIthus9lEwoe7PRx

[tribal vortex]

Yeah ok without tier set I just use Sec tech on cd with a dance and SB ends up around 100 sec

[lilac stag]

Accurate

[tribal vortex]

or hold sec tech for 5

something like this

[void ocean]

is it just me or all this sounds a bit complicated having in mind the idea about simple rotations

or this is just minmaxing for like 0.05% dps

[maiden oar]

im going to just try and only dance twice between cds like stealthi said and see how it goes

[tribal vortex]

Sec tech is more important than SB in general so as I have understood it is better to slightly delay SB than lose a sec tech cast

[lilac stag]

Focus on Sectech. Delay 2nd blades to have dance charges.

Everything else just over-complicating it on “patchwerk” concepts. Adjust as we see actual fight timings

[void ocean]

aye

[edgy star]

I'm finding my dance is out of sync with sectec

[rapid estuary]

how? you should only ever use sectec when you have a dance and they have the same CD. Try macroing them together

[edgy star]

I will stophammering dance 😛

[modern sentinel]

bro wanna dance

[karmic harbor]

Am i insane

has crimson vial always been on gcd?

[lilac stag]

Since BFA

[soft summit]

The only thing that matters is the fact that nothing matters

[modern sentinel]

metallica

[soft summit]

Just want to confirm, mastery is bis stat for mythic dungeons before haste is at 18%? Or is haste to 18% the most important?

[edgy star]

So on the opener, if I'm shadowstriking with dance up, I'm finding myself a bit unlucky and not getting all the pre-requisites to press a finisher

is it still right to continue hammering shadowstrike as per !aa

[modern sentinel]

700 haste,scath said that

[alpine wraith]

mastery is more important after like 300 in m+ but it is never bad to have more

[tawny yacht]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cinder marten]

does the black poweder/ coup de grace macro work? When i copied it nothing shows up on the tooltip

[lilac stag]

The extra feels way better on bosses. 300 was such a sludge

[alpine wraith]

yea

overall dps is not always the end of be all

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/jinx-lol-arcane-absolute-cinema-absolutecinema-gif-2823717891940156292

[modern sentinel]

I got invites pretty fast on my m0 tour

ilvl carry

[soft summit]

So stat everything mastery and haste?

[torn tide]

"i didnt see you at camoflauge practice today recruit!"

"thank you drill sergeant!"

[graceful crown]

Haste -18% is 700 stat points?

more or less?

[serene tapir]

Do we use SD at all outside tech and SB?

i mean besides every teck and major cd window

[whole lichen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[graceful crown]

you must wait when SB have like 10-20cds or something to cap 2 SD

rest of the time spam SD with sectech and whatever

[serene tapir]

++

[vale pine]

not wrong

[graceful crown]

fuu in your guide it says 18% haste is it like eleem says in icy? is it 700 more or less? idk haha, tbh now is not the time to make that calculations as we need ilvl but is to make a line for my char

i follow more stat guides than pure item copy builds (my english sucks)

[vale pine]

its the same range

[graceful crown]

alright thank you :>

[vale pine]

e.g. the profile uses 600

which is 17.35%

you want a bit higher than sim

which would be 650-700

or roughly 18%

[hazy breach]

700 is slightly higher than 18%, but it's better to have slightly too much than too little

I just added slightly more leeway to my guide than fuu did, but the principle behind it is identical

[left ledge]

Is vers better than haste after that point btw

Or is vers just going to be the lowest prio stat no matter what

[hazy breach]

I think they're about equal, but I can't say I've looked that deeply into it

[vale pine]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[torn tide]

yo what delve tier is worth doing to get good gear?

[fathom adder]

its capped at 6 right now, adventure gear only

[cobalt patrol]

Do we know which trinkets are prebis for Sub? Or it's a case of get whatcha can for now

[tribal vortex]

7 but yeah same

[chilly talon]

Does Shadowstrike always trigger Ancient Arts in this case, or am I supposed to completely ignore max combo points and keep pressing Shadowstrike repeatedly until it triggers Ancient Arts before using my spender?

[tepid trellis]

its guaranteed to proc if you have 5+ sht stacks

if you strike at max cp

[chilly talon]

Thanks

[tepid trellis]

you just need to have 5 or more stacks

AFTER the strike

then it procs the apex

[chilly talon]

So basically, if 5+ Shadow Technique stacks always Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance if Ancient Arts is not up?

[tepid trellis]

at max cp ye

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[chilly talon]

Thanks, appreciate it

[tepid trellis]

its basically just

Strike-(check if apex proc, yes/no, if no do i have 5 or more sht stacks if yes strike again)

[hollow spear]

Do we play around the premed bug in any way?

[torn tide]

thanks

[deep jackal]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pulsar prawn]

is there trinket sims out yet? bloodmallet looks not accurate but idk

[hollow spear]

Our tc are holding the apl for our 160k single target sims hostage

[glad cosmos]

is there way to sim the renown trink cause rn in quick sim, it doesn't work

[cyan quiver]

question : we have to use black powder at 2 and + target in and out shadowdance ?

[hollow spear]

yes

[cinder marten]

does the black poweder/ coup de grace macro work? When i copied it nothing shows up on the tooltip

[muted girder]

Works for me

[wheat edge]

cause if you have #showtooltip

it takes the icon of the first ability

and I guess it would only show up as coup if you have a coup ready

[cinder marten]

ye i noticed i switched them around thx

[wheat edge]

well no

you want coup first, thats the reason for the macro

but just do #showtooltip Black Powder

the macro is so that when you are aoeing (pressing BP), if you get a coup proc that takes prio but you can just press the same bind

[cinder marten]

alright it workds now, thx

[stoic sphinx]

It does. The extra spells are not on by default tho. You need simc options to enable each one

midnight.crucible_of_erratic_energies_violence=1
midnight.crucible_of_erratic_energies_sustenance=1
midnight.crucible_of_erratic_energies_predation=1

[unborn mason]

Newish to sub, are fast or slow weapons better, or does it not matter?

[glad cosmos]

Thanks for the notes. Even without these though, it doesn't show any uptime, so will adding any of these fix it?

[plush roost]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[unborn mason]

Thank you!

[stoic sphinx]

Hm that’s weird. It works on my priest

Is it proccing in game?

[glad cosmos]

Ye it procs in game. I've just tried to sim with the notes you linked, and it did increase the dps, but still not showing a buff, so i'm just confused now

I guess it works but just not visible?

[stoic sphinx]

Can you link sim

[glad cosmos]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hBeHmK7rHSipjGd3tpUVQU

Maybe i'm just blind

[plush roost]

Publik in the sub channel cause were more purple than spriest rn

Crazy

[glad cosmos]

Sub is the acolyte spriest

[plush roost]

Nah we're the cooler daniel

[swift tinsel]

the coolest dave

[austere canopy]

what proc do we want to set the drums trinket to

I'm assuming hasteif under 18%

[stoic sphinx]

Definitely not blind

Something weird is going on because it has like no proc flags for melee spells

So surprised it’s even proccing in game

[glad cosmos]

Very odd indeed, and I just double checked that it does in fact proc and went to target dummies and open world, and it does proc

[stoic sphinx]

Does it proc if you just sit there and melee?

[glad cosmos]

ill check

the trinket says spells and abilities, so I would assume auto swings wouldn't

and so far, it has not procced on the dummy

nope, not proccing

[stoic sphinx]

okie, ty!

[vale pine]

👋 hey publik

[stoic sphinx]

do you know if slice and dice heal is implemented in sims

[karmic harbor]

guys who has a good ui i can buy / use

[stoic sphinx]

humor me a bit, untalent recuperator, does it still proc?

[vale pine]

i don't know, but would assume it isn't

[stoic sphinx]

sitting on a dummy i cant get it to proc without recup talented lol

[vale pine]

[glad cosmos]

yes it procs

[stoic sphinx]

hm i wonder if you have something else i dont

been sitting here for like 5m without a proc after untaleting that

[glad cosmos]

thats what i've just swapped to, you can see the buff at top

[barren plume]

not sure how im feelin about sub between cool downs is like the ultimate low... feels lower then shaman

[stoic sphinx]

im wondering if you have some other proc or item though that is triggering it

[glad cosmos]

perhaps the darkmoon sigil?

[stoic sphinx]

which one do you have

[glad cosmos]

Hunt

[stoic sphinx]

yeah i have that too

[glad cosmos]

ill see if it procs without me using the on use

yup it still procs

[stoic sphinx]

weird i cant get it to then

[willow pawn]

is this valid source of information?

because 160k is kinda wild

[wheat edge]

yes buy racechange right now!!! (this comment was sponsored by blizzard entertainment)

[willow pawn]

not the race change idgaf about that

is the 160k our simming ST dps?

[stoic sphinx]

what if you dont use backstab/shadowstrike

im just sitting here FoK'ing and evis

[glad cosmos]

so it procced from secret technique at least

ill just do storm and evis

[warm marlin]

No

[glad cosmos]

doesnt seem to be proccing from just those

[stoic sphinx]

i love rogues

[green blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glad cosmos]

oh it just procced

took a long time, but it procced

[stoic sphinx]

wtf

[wheat edge]

you are talking about getting voidlust to proc right?

just spent a min not getting it to proc with just backstab/evis but sent full cds and it insta procced 🙂

[glad cosmos]

It doesn't proc at all for Publik, and I noticed that on sims it never procs

[wheat edge]

I just procced it with a dance -> strike which also gave me apex proc

[stoic sphinx]

so its likely that something happens in-game differnetly than how simc is coded

[wheat edge]

and again

[glad cosmos]

so while using storm and evis, I stopped for a second, and then noticed it procced

[wheat edge]

nvm procced on assa after 2min

[glad cosmos]

now it just procced from only storm

What if it has something to do with which protocol you have?

I'm using Violence and Sustenance (more procs, lasts longer)

[limpid sage]

@warm marlin do you know if it’s worth skipping aa cheese if you hit Coup and still have a ds charge in the bank from sectec?

because it feels so horrible to send an unseen blade when already capped on escalating

typically happens on opener if lucky with double procs

[stoic sphinx]

i think this is two problems

[limpid sage]

perhaps shiv could work there? (this might be a cook I feel)

[narrow comet]

why are all the M+ Imports in the Pin tab broken

can someone link an actual working one

[stoic sphinx]

1. trinket is missing some proc flags
2. the proc flags the trinket does have dont appear to be matching simc

[coarse hound]

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
is anyone finding this Macro a little janky. Idk if i need to be double tapping to make sure my SecTech goes off or what

[wheat edge]

well dance is off the gcd

and tec isnt

[coarse hound]

well yeah

i mean it just feels wonky to wait .5 sec

[limpid sage]

works if you’re in range, but you get slightly out of range sometimes

[warm marlin]

don’t think I looked at that specifically

[coarse hound]

for that GCD from the SS to cd

[stoic sphinx]

this is officially above my pay grade

[coarse hound]

that makes sense

[warm marlin]

I need to run some stuff today so I could look

[wheat edge]

well you macro cause you want to maximize gcds in dance so the whole point is still to make sure you arent on global when you dance

[torn tide]

theres a aa cheese?

[coarse hound]

Yeah i have been doing so, just commenting on the slight awkwardness of the feel, nothing gamebreaking

[wheat edge]

yeah fair, I felt the same previously when trying sub, cause assa has nothing off the GCD so there was rythm to the opener

but sub was just infinite off gcd things at the same time

[barren plume]

can we not track SS in the blizz UI?

[hazy breach]

Shadowstrike?

[barren plume]

also the personal resource display doesnt work for any of my characters for some reason

[hazy breach]

Why would you want to track it

[barren plume]

yea

idk just curious i dont see it in there

[tulip light]

well there is nothing to see for the ability 😅

[hollow spear]

There's no reason for it to be in there

[plain dome]

where can i find the haste values for SD gcds?

[limpid sage]

Not auto attack but ancient arts ye

Overcapping on cp to proc the double finisher effect

[torn tide]

isnt that the way to normally activate the apex?

[vale pine]

using a builder on low combo points with 5+ stacks of sht

[limpid sage]

ye remaining ^

Would be the normal way imo

Or intended way anyway

[hollow spear]

What's the root cause even? That you use up some sht when pressing your builder to reach max cp which reduces your sht to below 5 which in turn stops your apex from proccing?

And at the time you can press your next global, you've proceed enough sht to be at 5+ to then be able to proc the apex?

[vale pine]

unsure what you ask for, but yes, you need the apex proc to get the refund

the reason for the optimization we talk about is simply damage

[hollow spear]

Yeah, I get all that

It was more about how these instances occur

[stuck dune]

Are we binding haste on use trinkets into shadow blades ?

Can’t tell if haste on use is good

[hazy breach]

Yes

[stuck dune]

Ok cool

[hazy breach]

But ideally don't have it with danve

Press blades > dance

Otherwise you sometimes won't get the dance duration

Because deepening shadows doesn't update instantly

[stuck dune]

So blades before dance

Ahh

[hazy breach]

You can press them at the same time, just not macro

[stuck dune]

Oo ok totally makes sense sorry I don’t know sub well enough clearly

[hazy breach]

You will have a little bit of delay pressing them manually anyway

And that's enough

[stuck dune]

Ya I have them separate so I can save blades for a better pull

[hazy breach]

But yes the haste on-use from first boss is bis

[stuck dune]

Got it tysm eleem

I got the feather from m+

I saw shindig shadow striking on 4 targets.. think just prio dmg over max dps?

[hazy breach]

Yerp

[stuck dune]

Kk ty

[tulip light]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[unborn mason]

anyone know of a way to get the same ability (shadow dance) in both tracked buff and tracked bars?

[low yarrow]

This may be a stupid question, but do I ever cast SD by itself untied to ST and outside of SB? Or do I just let one charge sit

[tepid trellis]

#subtlety-faq message

[wet anvil]

what are we crafting ?

[warm marlin]

dagger with sigil hunt

[pine mirage]

Can someone explain why we want to use Shadow Strikes at 5+ Shadow Techniques stacks during dance even if full CPs?

[willow bobcat]

To proc Ancient Arts to get our finisher to pop our ShT stacks for combo points

[plush roost]

Ancient art finisher =1.8 eviserates~

So u can do strike evis evis strike evis strike. Or strike evis strike evis strike evis

The latter is 5.4 eviserates, the former is 4.6 eviserates

Since ur doing 3 proc vs 2 proc

[solid bear]

Which of the 2 necks of the Amani is best for sub?

the 246 i mean

[plush roost]

Prob haste one

Depends on your secondaries but verse yucky now

[pine mirage]

Does Fan of Knives not proc Ancient Arts?

[iron whale]

guys can I understand something

why any other class's cooldown is so visually stunning

DH enter a fucking demon form
shadow priests enter a voidform with tentacles and power surging everywhere
shamans have that special weird polip form
paladins go super light berserker with light wings

meanwhile sub rogues have farts in their hands?

that I can barely see?

why devs hate sub rogue so much visually

[tepid trellis]

it does

[lucid jackal]

Because rogue, by design, no pun intended, is meant to be lower class fantasy

[tepid trellis]

its just more effecient to strike at 3 or less targets

than to storm

[lucid jackal]

The only visuals rogue could really get is like what, Shadow power from d3 or smthing?

I think the clones are a nice subtle add

[pine mirage]

Yeah so fan is jut inneficient at low target count. We generate more via strike which lets us evis more during dance

[vale pine]

subtlety could get a lot of visual updates

tho i don't think its realistic to assume visual changes