subtlety

[blazing night]

Probably too granular. I'm asking about symbols on macros. LOL

[warm marlin]

storm isn't good enough to warrant casting less BPs

also apex BP clones don't benefit from potent powder so it's even worse, but iirc it would still be bad anyway

[raven blaze]

i thought storm was stronger than shadowstrike on high target counts

[warm marlin]

it's better for combo points, but strike still does more damage at 3 targets

and above that storm does more damage, but so does bp

[raven blaze]

what does aa buff mean?

[warm marlin]

and casting more overall finishers is stronger

[warm marlin]

having the ancient arts proc ready

the black bars that you're prepped for a refund

[raven blaze]

aa=ancient arts

got it

i thought it meant autoattack

(im a league player, aa means autoattakc in league)

[warm marlin]

idk i think its weird and only shows the question mark on the macro or something

i play with bars hidden and dont use the macro so i wouldnt know

[raven blaze]

so near the end of packs im supposed to shadowstrike at 3 targets during dance right

because i dont care about cp gen

[fleet wharf]

Hey, just to clarify something, apex evisc is the one you cast after triggering the Apex 3 of the AA and shows the black shadow things around your screen right?

[warm marlin]

at full cp to proc apex, you'd still want more cp from storm if you weren't already at cp to try to get more black powders out

black powder very strong

[warm marlin]

yes

[fleet wharf]

I was only half following your discussion, but for AOE situations above 3 in targetcount, we don't play around Ancient Art and just do the coup>BP as the finisher, correct?

[warm marlin]

yes, storm bp bp and press coup when it procs

zug zug

[fleet wharf]

Thanks, I really hope we don't have to keep doing this AA optimization as the main gameplay loop

[raven blaze]

there are 3 targets, they are going to die in like 5s, i have 10 stacks of ShT, im 7 cp, BP, then shadowstrike, BP, shadowstrike, BP, because i dont care about the extra CP generation, because theyre gonna die before its relevant/before i run out of ShT stacks @warm marlin

yes?

[warm marlin]

yes

and if you procced coup there i would hold it

[raven blaze]

and AA-maxxing is worse than CP maxxing in heavy aoe? because u can just infinitely storm->bp->storm->bp

and 2 bp is better than storm storm AA-bp

[warm marlin]

yes, bp is a tactical nuke button you want lots of them

storm damage is kinda mid

also clones dont get potent powder benefit for now so extra not worth

[raven blaze]

is this a bug?

oh u said for now, so i assume its unintended

[warm marlin]

yep, it was fixed briefly on beta then it came back

[raven blaze]

when its fixed is the behavior going to swap

for more aa-maxxing even on aoe

[warm marlin]

dont think so bp is too good that you don't want to waste cp at all

[raven blaze]

ohhhhhhhhh

its only ever strike to optimize for aa

because strike is fucking bonkers

and nothing else ever

[warm marlin]

[raven blaze]

gotcha

btw does shadowmeld trigger shadowstrike's benefits

it doesnt let me blink but does it get the dmg buff

i guess i can test myself

[warm marlin]

idk havent been a nelf since early df

[austere canopy]

yall think since we got relatively strong aoe burst/sustain we'll find a place in m+ or the lack of utility will make things hard esp if you pug

[alpine wraith]

our dmg is fine

[warm marlin]

no aoe stop anymore + mid raid buff

[alpine wraith]

problem is nowadays in m+ people want more

[warm marlin]

its cooked bruv

[fleet wharf]

guys don't pad too much heroic

or we get snip snipped like fury warr s1 of TWW

[raven blaze]

the recommended stuff gave me smoke but mirrors is better for raid aint it?

[warm marlin]

if feint dr works already you're never gonna die

[raven blaze]

is it common for enemies to do consistent undodgeable low damage to all players

and smoke works on that?

[fleet wharf]

yea, but if feint works on that, the extra 10% isnt gonna change anything

[raven blaze]

no i mean like, i have 100k hp, boss does 1k dmg to everyone every second for the entire fight

smoke works to make it 950 dmg

is that kind of thing common?

[warm marlin]

fazed is also almost always up while feint is only ever like 40% uptime at most

so smoke is just more dr over the course of a fight

[raven blaze]

my initial intuition is that mirrors is better for letting me survive critical attacks while already missing large amounts of health

[warm marlin]

idk rogue's weakness is single-target classified rot damage, you aren't afraid of anything in the game that feint will work on. you want to talent into things that will help you against that weakness

[raven blaze]

but i dont know what raids are like in retail

all ive ever played is mop and in mop, raid wide damage is rarely from an enemy/from the boss, meaning smoke wouldnt even affect it

[warm marlin]

smoke works on most raid wide damage

our raid buff atrophic poison works the same way and it usually works on most things

there are some outlier fights that are just 100% environmental

[alpine wraith]

yo this squirrels

[raven blaze]

man it sucks that this always gives versatility

[uncut scarab]

is this even above secret technique in prio?

[alpine wraith]

you could use hunt instead

if you have the embellish it is a lil better

but also all dmoon cards are very underpowered tbh

[alpine wraith]

nope you still sec tech first in dance

[uncut scarab]

word, thanks

[lean sigil]

do we craft dagger this week? or is that stupid?

[alpine wraith]

it is fine it has big ilvl

and you can just reacraft it later

[lean sigil]

what max ilvl for it now?

[raven blaze]

259

[lean sigil]

kinda nice

Darkmoon Sigil: Hunt Darkmoon Sigil: Hunt on it?

[alpine wraith]

also @vale pine might want to say gouge is better most of the time now instead of airbone

[raven blaze]

what does darkmoon:hunt embellishment do?

[alpine wraith]

just give some stats

nothing crazy

[lean sigil]

stats

[raven blaze]

how do i see the bonus stats its giving me?

[lean sigil]

depends on what you are hitting if i get it

[vale pine]

blind probably better because its ranged

[raven blaze]

no i mean how do i see the benefit of stacking them together?

[lean sigil]

so we craft dagger with haste/mastery right?

[raven blaze]

i thought there was a special bonus for having both. is there not?

[raven blaze]

free too

[alpine wraith]

you will see the number be a bit higher on the deck

[raven blaze]

like when it procs?

yea its not adjusting the tooltips or anything so i was confused

[alpine wraith]

yea when it procs

as always blizz tooltips kekw

[raven blaze]

do you know by how much?

[alpine wraith]

nope the item is quite bad anyway so you will replace it fast dont worry

[maiden oar]

ok i am prepared

[uncut scarab]

and is the entire purpose of that line to basically ensure the rank 3 proc to then double finisher? or are you legit just spaming shadowstrike in dance if at that target count and shadow tech stacks

[raven blaze]

is this trinket better? i saw it on the tierlist but i wasnt sure what item level it needed to be to be better

the tierlist had the 259 decks at the bottom so i got really confused

[alpine wraith]

shadowstrike does enough dmg for it to be worth to use apex 3 on all finishers yea

on st

[lean sigil]

what tierlist?

[lean sigil]

ahh its updated

nice

[maiden oar]

puzzle box

[raven blaze]

my question remains, what fuckin trinket do i use

darkmoon deck hunt with embellishment, darkmoon deck blood because of the ally death proc, or libram because its 224 higher ilvl

[lean sigil]

we get 2 sparks this week?

[raven blaze]

how long should i be willing to wait to sectec, if i have dance coming up soon

whats the threshold

[alpine wraith]

yea you can craft once this week

then again in 2 weeks

[marble sail]

Sim yo self, even tho it dosnt matter at all atm lole

[upper narwhal]

It does not fuckin matter it’s prerelease you will replace instantly

[iron ibex]

@vale pine We getting Nerf on the 17th or what?? Sub looks good on M0 for now lol

[vale pine]

probably no

warlocks look to strong

i can't say for sure for mage

guardian druids look too strong

[iron ibex]

haha Guardian has to! Warlocks still strong

Unholy i fear is coming

[warm marlin]

sub will get 3% aura or nothing as the bear druids/demo/arcane take the hit for us

[iron ibex]

^

[warm marlin]

and yes udk too

[marble sail]

People forgetting devourer is crazy style too

So is havoc

[iron ibex]

Range Dh is going to get love! They've to stay with the Wizard theme.

[warm marlin]

devourer doesnt look good enough in m0

things die too fast

too much ramp

[marble sail]

thats not a good thing

Dodge the nerfs because stuff is to easy

[meager coyote]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chrome palm]

20% nerf to mage (they swap hero talents and are still 15% ahead)

[marble sail]

25% to uhdk (they swap talents and gained dps)

[tepid raven]

Nah they just nerf the other specs and fire becomes meta again

[vestal escarp]

GM

hows expac launch?

[marble sail]

nothing to do

[young harness]

afk for 2 weeks

[alpine wraith]

farm professions

level alts

[stuck arrow]

Unholy has like 3 major bugs that increase their damage substantially. Even if they don't get nerfed - there's a decent chance their damage falls just due to bug fixes.

Or they'll stay bugged for several expansions. You know. Blizzard things.

[alpine wraith]

play poe

[marble sail]

Rather sit afk in silvermoon than play poe

[stuck arrow]

Blasphemy. Poe is goated.

[alpine wraith]

you can also play slay the spire 2

just came out yday

[marble sail]

or u can play yapyap that shit slaps

[vale pine]

arcane felt rly strong in our m0 world tour, just wasn't sure if its overall as strong as wl/druid tank

[alpine wraith]

arcane is very strong overall

and gives a buff

[marble sail]

Arcane is nuts because thier prio dmg is out of this world lmao

[alpine wraith]

so yea

[marble sail]

They are meta in keys for sure (ofc 17th might change it)

[vale pine]

ye

these 3 stood out, i haven't played with a dk yet

so unsure if they are good too

[alpine wraith]

they would need to nerf the apex and the riceballer talent quite a bit

maybe even spellslinger

[marble sail]

Uhdk just absolutely is unkillable, idk how tf they manage to do this every tier

[analog granite]

Dk is broken, I main it

They did nerf rune of the apocalypse tho

[marble sail]

It will be like s2 all over again, u bring them because healer dosnt have to care about them

[alpine wraith]

do you still get silly dr from the death knight random pets that spawn

[marble sail]

Ams literally every mechanic

[alpine wraith]

or you play the other

[analog granite]

If you mean the 16% something DR

That got nerfed so it's basically gone

[marble sail]

To bad they have the other 400% dr passives and cheat deaths and amazing defenives and self heals

Buff them

[analog granite]

Cheat death?

[marble sail]

yes

[alpine wraith]

well nerfing 1 thing does not take from the others

[analog granite]

Blood drain is just a meme point it doesn't matter

[warm marlin]

will of the necropolis/the blood sucky heal thing I assume

[marble sail]

Yes

[analog granite]

Only reason blood drain gets taken is talent placement

[warm marlin]

much more will than that thing

though i personally wouldnt call it a cheat

[alpine wraith]

this

is better than cheat death

[marble sail]

its a cheat death

[analog granite]

Tbf dk should always be the tankiest class in the game but they might have overdone it a bit in this expansion compared to other more pruned classes

[marble sail]

dk is the only class that didnt get hit alot and they were already the tankiest by far

Just dosnt make sense

[analog granite]

Ret is pretty crazy as well

[alpine wraith]

tbh i do find funny you have so many passive defensives that they dont even talent death pact

like nah dont need this

[analog granite]

And lock flies under the radar a lot

[marble sail]

Ret isnt close to dk

[analog granite]

Death pact kinda sucks I think it only ever gets used in pvp

[alpine wraith]

yea kinda sucks when you already have many things

but a 50% instant heal

is not bad

[analog granite]

It's just a worse dark pact

[alpine wraith]

ask us or hunter

what would we do for that

[analog granite]

Ask enhancement lol

They're on life support, rogue eating good in comparison

[marble sail]

ask ww lol, squishiest shit ever rn

[alpine wraith]

rogue is decent if feint works

[analog granite]

Is ww squishier than enh?

[marble sail]

Also hunter was never bad, its tanky asf

[alpine wraith]

think both are very squishy

ww and enha are kinda in shambles

[marble sail]

Noone plays ench but i actually think so yes

[analog granite]

Enh only gets 1 defensive and then 15% hp on earth elemental

[alpine wraith]

they nerfed their own heals too

used to be able to insta top yourself even with not full capped maelstrom

[analog granite]

Yeah but gave em some passive dr

[marble sail]

Irrelevant dr tho

Was super small

[analog granite]

Tbf I might play enhance since it seems to be the only somewhat complicated spec with good apm

[alpine wraith]

tbh the new rogue dr thing is surprisingly cool

[analog granite]

Mained unholy for over 10 years but it's dogshit boring now and idk what to play anymore

[marble sail]

Feint my beloved is all I need

Best dr ever

[fair anchor]

I feel so naked not using feint on every mech on my WW

[marble sail]

yeah went back to rogue from feral and i cant go back now

Feint to good

[analog granite]

Just go bear and top dps

[blazing night]

Anybody sure on trinket usage, yet?

[fallow ingot]

Cannot track secret arts inside the CDM its criminal man

[alpine wraith]

what trinket usage

if you mean the ones on use we might use puzzlebox and guidon use it before dance

[marble sail]

U cant get any for 2 more weeks so no need to worry

[alpine wraith]

u can get the execution thingy that gives haste+crit

it is not bad but wont be in the m+ rotation so it is not anywhere

the flask from murder row is super understatted

[blazing night]

Yeah, I'm just doing a whole reconstruction of my keybinds from DF2. LOL. So I'm digging. I appreciate you answering.

[alpine wraith]

for now just use the champion one from renown and another decent one

[blazing night]

Don't even know if I have those. Been a year since I played. So... I'll just eat it till it matters.

Trinkets on CD. Always a plus. At least I'm using them.

(or during burst if that's the idea behind the burst azz trinkey)

[alpine wraith]

we ideally use on uses with blades yea

[blazing night]

and we kill, so... kill, kill, with cold blue steel

[fathom adder]

how do those souls from Vessel trinket look like? Highlighted or hard to see?

[lean sigil]

Did anyone craft dagger? Was going to but a guild m8 said i should wait? What am i giving up if i craft this week?

[alpine wraith]

you can craft it this week

and just recraft with mythic crests later

[lean sigil]

Did you craft one?

[alpine wraith]

yea

haste mastery

+hunt embellish

[lean sigil]

Om thinking maybe crit mastery

[alpine wraith]

that works too if you already have good haste

[lean sigil]

Got 18%

Should be good

[alpine wraith]

should be fine yea

[lean sigil]

Need to fix my sim🤣 I’m at 34k 5 min single

[alpine wraith]

we wont sim for much

[lean sigil]

Mages and dks at 60k

My internet pp hurts🤣

[hazy breach]

Swap to latest or nightly instead of weekly

As weekly still uses tww consumes

You'll see number go up

[lean sigil]

Doing alot more than 34k tho

[alpine wraith]

it will be noticeable

[hollow spear]

I think we're topping out at around 45k rn

[lean sigil]

M0 Bosses are so fast that we still get good pump

[hollow spear]

Idk, big balance patch soon

[lean sigil]

Kinda bad, no buffs if they look at m0

[hollow spear]

Nerf mages

[lean sigil]

And uh dk

Dude in my guild posted 65k 5 min single

At 236

Insane

[marble sail]

stop looking at sims before tuning 😭

its so irrelevant 😭

[lean sigil]

Min max life😂

Ofc

[alpine wraith]

dont worry we just need to become better at sniping pad

[barren wolf]

yo

@alpine wraith

[alpine wraith]

then we will have our 3 weeks of glory

then people get gear and we cry again

but hey

[barren wolf]

tldr on sub rota???

i need

[alpine wraith]

it is quite easy

go into dance sec tech

then use builder finisher in st

[barren wolf]

thats good tip

[alpine wraith]

in aoe storm finisher

use coup when it lights up

[barren wolf]

i know i get suuuuuper charged and wanna suuuuuper charge secret tech

[alpine wraith]

check you have fazed in case you changed targets for some reason

[barren wolf]

mine doesnt light up

[alpine wraith]

before using coup and not much more

[barren wolf]

ok idk what fazed is, will study for the test

ive never played trickster

also, i run out of energy quickly??

am i doing something bad

i dont have the apex talents selected, they are scary

[daring raptor]

is bloodmallet working correctly?

is this really true?

[hazy breach]

No idea why it's showing those

[barren wolf]

how good are the dicks

decks

do i gotta purchase?

pls help?

[daring raptor]

and is this true aswel

[tepid raven]

Farm the drum from world quests

[daring raptor]

cuz then im swapping race to human

[tepid raven]

Very op

[alpine wraith]

yea out of dance we run out of energy super fast but dont bother

we dont even stay that much outside dance

[barren wolf]

ok noted. and the other trinket the reputation one?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[tepid raven]

Exactly

[barren wolf]

cool

fuck my ass

fuck reputation

[alpine wraith]

basically if you see dance coming in like 4 secs or so you can also sit on full cp

[barren wolf]

what the fuck is a renown

[hazy breach]

Nah there's something funky going on with mallet

[alpine wraith]

to stack shadow techniques

[hazy breach]

Best simming races are panda and mechagnome

[alpine wraith]

no idea what is happening on blood mallet tbh

weird place

[slate marlin]

wait wtf we no longer have aoe blind -.-

[alpine wraith]

yep it died

i was liking gouge more again but fuu did convince me with blind being ranged

[vale pine]

thats true, races are within ~2% dps diffrences, and if you make a statistic like this, you don't see any difference that's not more significant

would probably need 5% or even higher diffrences using this visualization to even notice the bar changing

[alpine wraith]

yea basically proc all stat increases while on dance

then human is best

masterrace

[slate marlin]

i just dont understand it, they added aoe blind so we werent the only class with no aoe cc

[north schooner]

ok garithos

[vale pine]

blizz gives, and blizz takes

there is no transparency on why we lose or gain certain perks

[slate marlin]

i guess we have 8 second kidney

but aoe cc make it dr

[quaint karma]

Hey! I have a question about this because im not sure i understand it. Does this effectively mean that if i press SS while in dance and i don't proc Ancient arts (the CP refund) then i should SS again if that would give me CP refund proc?
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1441067745843347619/1479211934325805227/image.png?ex=69abdfb7&is=69aa8e37&hm=065f5340d780a373c83b06a66a5f84211c1721db3fcf63789a13d3ed7cb61975&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[daring raptor]

why is this better btw?

cuz you get the same amount of evis off?

in the same amount of time no ?

[quaint karma]

Just to make sure that im not confusing the names, anicent arts is now the name of the CP refund that we've had previously with shadowdust just under a different name?

[daring raptor]

yup

[hazy breach]

More or less yes

[green blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

But you need to proc it with a builder now

[daring raptor]

questions for macros

i find that macroing blades. trinket and dance in one is weird

sometimes i get the haste bonus on dance and sometimes not

my trinket on use gives hate

[hazy breach]

Yep deepening shadows doesn't always update instantly

[alpine wraith]

you dont macro trinkets with dance

[hazy breach]

So you shouldn't have them macrod

[alpine wraith]

you can macro trinkets with blades

then dance

that one should be fine

[hazy breach]

Press blades+trinket then press dance macro

[vale pine]

all apex talents are named acient art

[alpine wraith]

i just call them apex 1 2 3

[vale pine]

thats why its confusing

[daring raptor]

yeah that's what im doing now

[quaint karma]

Yea, just making sure its the CP refund that is being referenced.

[vale pine]

trinket haste often needs a short moment to apply, so a macro of "gives haste" trinket + dance is sadly not possible

[vale pine]

oh yes, it is

[daring raptor]

but for the cp refuind thingty

why is it better to go for a extra ss to proc it?

cuz you get the same amount of finsihers out of it

right?

[tepid raven]

You guarantee a shadow

[daring raptor]

arrh

[tepid raven]

Because you’re proccing a cp gen

[daring raptor]

well the cp gen don't matter tehre cuz the extra ss you would use after the finsiher and you would have the same amount of finishers, or am i wrong here?=

[tepid raven]

It’s cuz when you generate a finisher from proccing ancient arts

[daring raptor]

anyone know why if i get preproc the aa and then dance st it doesnt give me back my cp''s?

[tepid raven]

You generate cp from your stacks and the other part of the apex is that when you do that you have 20% chance per stack to replicate the ability at 50% damage

So it’s 50% damage on AA finishers

[broken saffron]

Not related to sub, but am I the only one who cant see daily/weekly and some other quests on the big map?

[daring raptor]

not sure i udnerstand tbh

[hazy breach]

It's also way more than 50% since we have +shadow damage and +clone damage talents

It's more like 90%

[tepid raven]

I did not know the actual number

[daring raptor]

like if i have more then 5 st stacks. i use shadow strike and get the proc

[vale pine]

i had some map related bugs 2 days ago, but unsure if thats wow or one of the addons

[daring raptor]

if i then use evis it gives me the cp back. but if i shadow dance and secret tech it does not give me the combo points back

never

[broken saffron]

Not an issue anymore?

[tepid raven]

An AA empowered finisher does way more damage than a non empowered one

[daring raptor]

why

[tepid raven]

Sk you wanna get as many as possible

[tepid raven]

Bug

[vale pine]

i deleted the cache folder and updtaed addons, worked ever since

i also dissabled some addons

because they causes lua errors

[hazy breach]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[vale pine]

its an annoying bug

[daring raptor]

oh ok

[broken saffron]

I'll try that thx.
Yeah very much so

[daring raptor]

so no premed i gues

hahha

[vale pine]

we still play premed

[daring raptor]

yeah just jking

[fleet wharf]

Hmm, are we the glue eating spec this season?

[quaint karma]

Does this then mean that it's better to alternate between builders and finishers if i have enough ST stacks to do so rather than doing double finishers and then building again?

[vale pine]

it means

its better to use strike, even on high cp

if you can trigger the last apex talent with it

its mostly a damage optimization

[alpine wraith]

most of the finesse of the spec now is when to use cds across dungeons or fights

than performing inside dances

[fleet wharf]

True, but doesn't every other DPS spec also have to think about that though?

[quaint karma]

Alright thank you! Ngl this is one of the weirdest things to me

[fleet wharf]

I mean I guess we have more smaller dps cds to burn

[alpine wraith]

the thing is with our cds

[vale pine]

is eating glue or crayons worse?

[tulip light]

send on send yolo

[alpine wraith]

even a 2 sec difference can make a big deal of change on some things

[fleet wharf]

lemme get back to you. the green one is too tasty

[vale pine]

it is not intuitive, because of damage

[alpine wraith]

maybe you lose a dance cast in a phase and boss goes away

or pull dies or does not die because you sent earlier or later

maybe you dont pool sht and then cant apex well

[fleet wharf]

That's fair. I guess we'll be bait then

[alpine wraith]

perhaps you have 2 dances for a big pull and use sec tech alone on the one before

so you can use 2 in a row

then another one

it is the little things not always for the best overall dps

but for the completion of the encounter

that matter sometimes

[fleet wharf]

For sure, I guess it's the same issue we had to deal with last season, just with lot less punishment for fucking up

[alpine wraith]

kinda because now we dont have cdr

apart from haste procs on sec tech

but dance is the most limiting factor

[fleet wharf]

well yes, and we also don't do 0 damage for 70 seconds after fucking up 1 flag window

[alpine wraith]

or dying and losing prism stacks

welcome 18th place in dps

kekw

[fleet wharf]

honestly, managing prism stack felt a lot easier than managing spymaster stacks as a caster

thank god for cheat death

[alpine wraith]

spymaster was cooler imo

[fleet wharf]

I do agree it was the bigger impact trinket

[alpine wraith]

you could coordinate better on fights wich person would use theirs

[fleet wharf]

Isn't that more of a function of how few melees you wanted to run for s3?

i guess there are hunters too

idk, their cds are even more flexible than any caster, no?

[bleak night]

what cds

[fleet wharf]

our hunters are very sad about losing all semblence of cd control just like us lmao

[tepid raven]

I played dk last tier and me and the other dk definitely chatted about prism use on Saladbar

We were overkilling way too much with 2 prisms on platform

[shadow urchin]

Alfa move was prism and another on use 🗿

[tepid raven]

I didn’t have another one til reclear

Got myself a lil forge later

[shadow urchin]

On dimmy land on new intermission platform to blast forge into prism on 2nd plat and back to forge on lust

[tepid raven]

I committed heinous crimes against trinket usage on that boss

50/50 if I remembered them on 2nd platform

[broken saffron]

I'm cooked. Didn't work. Is there any site that shows where all those quests spawn?

[vale pine]

if you know the quest names, wowhead has the start npc's listed

[broken saffron]

was it like this for you? there is a bunch of quests there

[dreamy latch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[night sluice]

just noticed they removed the aoe blind, why the hell would they remove the only aoe cc we had

[fleet wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[proud knot]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target: Versatility >= Haste(~18%) > Critical Strike > Mastery
Mythic+: Mastery >= Versatility > critical strike > Haste (~18%)

[dreamy latch]

Is there are macro for SS and Backstab in same button?
'

[vale pine]

yes

#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab```

[fleet wharf]

Hey @vale pine, what's correct? Is moroes right or your wowhead page right about statweights?

[exotic steeple]

because we bring amazing shroud bro

[alpine wraith]

might need to update it mastery on st should be instead of vers

idk if formatting krangled it a bit

[night sluice]

they can take shroud and give me a aoe stun or old smokebomb back

[exotic steeple]

cant even shroud 10 meters in delves lmao

[alpine wraith]

all mobs can see stealth pog

[fleet wharf]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target: Versatility >= Haste(~18%) > Critical Strike > Mastery
Mythic+: Mastery >= Versatility > critical strike > Haste (~18%)

[fleet wharf]

!statweights

hmm

[vale pine]

wowhead

vers is not good

i need to update the command, moment

[fleet wharf]

Don't you also have the square graph thing that shows how good each stats are?

or diamond thing

[fleet wharf]

Maybe you can also link it to the stats command?

[exotic steeple]

is there a scenario where we run ds?

[fleet wharf]

if you hate yourself and want to see yourself losing the mark randomly and lose 30% damage until you relog

[exotic steeple]

ah so its bugged?

[fleet wharf]

no

it's just very fucking annoying

you don't actually lose it randomly

But if you do lose it, you need to relog. Vanishing no longer fixes the mark reset.

[exotic steeple]

so trickster it is

[alpine wraith]

yep

[vale pine]

nope

and thats actually nice

ds plays worse

[alpine wraith]

it has a cool idea and the talents seem cool

[exotic steeple]

i liked ds on assa

[alpine wraith]

but then DN and marks krangles it

[exotic steeple]

ye idm

makes it easier for me to get into sub

couldnt handle it in tww

[shadow snow]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[brisk raptor]

Any reason not to craft dagger with veteran crests this week?

[vale pine]

there is a good chance a dagger craft will be strong

a reason to not craft would be tuning

maybe outlaw will be the go-to, which can't use dagger in mainhand

or to safe a bit of gold

[south kernel]

this has to be the most cursed thing u have ever said

[vale pine]

haha

[hot creek]

hello quick question, if i'm at 4 or 5 cp and dance+sectec near to come, is it worth to wait till im at 6 cp to sent it or should i send it directly ?

[brisk raptor]

Haha I appreciate that notation as well, sounds like I will craft a dagger. I sure as hell won’t be caught dead on outlaw

[vale pine]

you would go to 6+ cp

[vale pine]

i did not say the chance was high

[fleet wharf]

I am a bit curious about this though, I keep hearing ppl say outlaw sucks for prog because it has a flat profile, is there anything else I'm missing? should I go ask the outlaw channel?

[hot creek]

ok ty

[vale pine]

the reason is boss design

[fleet wharf]

I know in TWW if you lose uptime as Outlaw you're cooked, isn't that mitigated with midnight outlaw though?

[vale pine]

the laster bosse sin raids typically have shields, vulnerability phases or priority adds

outlaw does well on damage to the boss

but if a add needs to die quickly, you can't just prepear your cooldowns for it

this does not make outlaw bad, we had tiers classes did literally sit on boss to do boss damage

but means outlaw is less flexible

especially when prepearing for a tier with unknowns, this flexibility is a key factor to what you play

[fleet wharf]

So somewhat similar problem as sin then too, no? cuz aren't they also bad at targetswapping?

[vale pine]

they are a bit worse yes

but sin has some niches which can make it relevant

[fleet wharf]

so somewhat subject to tuning, but there's a reason why sub usually was the go to raidspec at least at the beginning of tiers?

[vale pine]

e.g. the execute niche is one of the most powerful in the game

and later bosses can have longer execute phases

sin also does rly good funnel damage(also one of the best niches in game), blizz removed the niche from subtlety and gave it to assassiantion

[fleet wharf]

surely they'll give us back shuriken combo any day now...

[vale pine]

probably won't happen

[hazy breach]

They've tried to reduce funnel/priority damage across the board in midnight

So I don't think combo is happening anytime soon

Or rather, make funnel/full prio more detrimental to the overall AOE dps

[fleet wharf]

Honestly the only change I want for S1 of midnight is for us to actually have somewhat intuitive rotation and not this Ancient Art optimizing stuff

[hazy breach]

Which I think it's a healthier way to balance the game

[fleet wharf]

true, but you know ppl are gonna talk about "funnel damage" for the next 5 years whenever some classes get brought up in tierlists and whatnot

cuz don't some ppl still think sub has funnel damage?

[hazy breach]

Some might, but i think that perception mightve changed now with midnight since people know its different

Idk though

[azure thicket]

when did they change gouge to a chance to break on incap

it's really good honestly

[lilac stag]

now we can reminisce about having an AOE stop instead of funnel/priority dmg

[hazy breach]

While you can absolutely do fine on sub just storm+bp spamming, i think good players are gonna be able to do the same overall but higher prio

[fleet wharf]

Do you guys like the AA optimized gameplay for low target counts?

[hazy breach]

I personally dont find it horrible, but it certainly is janky

[fleet wharf]

yea, that sounds about right. I just am worried about getting used to it because trying to fix it after it becomes muscle memory is going to be a bitch

[swift tinsel]

I like having the option

But it is indeed jank

[analog granite]

Wdym by AA, auto attack?

[hazy breach]

Ancient Arts

[fleet wharf]

Ancient Arts, our new apex talent

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[fleet wharf]

i dunno the command, but there is a nice one that tells you about it

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[analog granite]

I gotta read through that apex talent again I still got no idea what it does, only that it means more shadow clones

[fleet wharf]

The checklist above should help. Another way that's helped me is to think of it more as getting the apex visual to show up as much as possible while you are in SD

[analog granite]

Still gotta level my rogue from 80. I basically completely dropped rogue from my potential midnight alt list after hearing about the energy issues across the board

But apparently it's still fun I keep hearing so might have dropped it too quickly

[half mural]

if u use a builder and more then 5 cp points remain u next spender fills ur cp. if u have 8 ur next spender generates 3 cp thats how i understood

[fleet wharf]

Before midnight, I'd argue sub and outlaw were some of the most complex classes in the game. Both have been greatly simplified

[analog granite]

Yeah but that's mostly a bad thing to me.

[half mural]

why if u have enough u can press 2 spender without using a builder

[analog granite]

It's why I'm probably swapping off dk for the first time ever

[fleet wharf]

are you looking for more complexity or trying to avoid it?

[hazy breach]

The apex buffs the spender by a lot

[analog granite]

Looking for more. But I also absolutely hate downtime and slow apm

Which makes it pretty hard for me to figure out what I wanna play in midnight

[fleet wharf]

Yea, you might wanna look into enha and maybe even ww

[analog granite]

Enha is my top pick atm but coming from dk, having no defensives reaaaally suckw

[fleet wharf]

well everything is squishy compared to dk

[analog granite]

And I find a class with only 1 dps spec a bit of a gamble

[fleet wharf]

you also have to do mechanics if you aren't a dk too

[analog granite]

Yeah but rogue is fine to me defensive wisd

[half mural]

nah enhancer is rly squishy atm

[analog granite]

Yeah I feel this each time I play an alt. Especially on last boss arakara

[fleet wharf]

i mean... ams and death's advance are fucking cheater buttons man

[analog granite]

But the dk gameplay is too braindead for me and I can't enjoy it anymore

I will always miss death strike, ams , IBF and DA

[real rain]

if dk is braindead dont play sub

[half mural]

i mained dk cata to sl after that i need sth faster this wheelchairclass wont see me maining again

[fleet wharf]

I mean they did get a baseline survivability buff, so I don't think they're that bad in defensives department anymore

[half mural]

y thats right but only have 1 good def cd and the earth elemental is just like nothing and i think 1 cd to have is 👎

[analog granite]

I mean I would try outlaw but

[fleet wharf]

That's fair, I just don't think DKs are a fair point of comparison for any other class defensive wise

[analog granite]

Lower apm and more energy issues

[half mural]

thats 4 sure ams alone is so much value

[analog granite]

True but that's why enh is even more painful to me

[fleet wharf]

just don't get hit?

[analog granite]

Aoe sadge

[half mural]

5head

[analog granite]

I think I'd have gone warlock if it wasn't so fking overplayed atm

That's the good thing about rogue, they never get played

[fleet wharf]

tbh that is one of the benefits, our pop numbers are so low

[half mural]

wl is fun 4 my opionion it gets boring rly fast

[analog granite]

Yeah same

I always had dk as a main and rogue and lock as alts

Lock would bore me out and rogue would annoy me with downtime

[fleet wharf]

if you hate downtime, maybe fury is a better fit?

[half mural]

think enh or ww sowuld be better choices so u can swap sham also to range to try or heal and monk tank and heal idk if u are just dps player

[analog granite]

I tank and dps but I also care about class identity and races I can play so I probably wouldn't touch monk

Realistically either fury or enh would fit my needs the most but fury also seems boring easily

[half mural]

only played arms furry idk looks like a lot when u are hitting but idk playstyle boring : S

[analog granite]

Sub didn't always have downtime tho right? I played it quite a lot in m+ in the past and I don't really remember running out of energy except on bosses in m+ build

[half mural]

and sham buff also brings big value to grp.. no words needed for bl if ur m+ grp missing bl

[fleet wharf]

that was only for a season back in df, the no downtime class was outlaw, but they got changed. lot of them are also complaining about this version feeling a lot slower to play

[swift tinsel]

It is

[fleet wharf]

but yea, if you want invites for m+, rogue isn't it

[half mural]

when i played it i feel like ur pistol stacks are slacking and u have to wait 4 them

[analog granite]

Was it s2 or something?

[swift tinsel]

It’s still faster than most/all other specs but compared to TWW outlaw is def slower

[fleet wharf]

not sure, I think it was S1 though?

[analog granite]

There has only been a single season where I did most my m+ runs on a class other than dk and it was sub during aberrus

Didn't outlaw have random bits of downtime during WW if you got unlucky with procs or something

[fleet wharf]

well i think you didnt have that if you played it flawlessly

[half mural]

can only tell for s3+4 and there u didnt

[fleet wharf]

never fuck up buttons, maintain 100% uptime

ezpz

[analog granite]

Think i'll just level rogue to 90 and then try out the specs again and decide if I wanna play it

It just sucks that to fully try a spec you need to lvl it to 90 and then test it because of apex talents

[tepid raven]

It’s also early expac

[analog granite]

The levelling feels so slow I don't want to level multiple other characters

[tepid raven]

Most classes and specs are slower than they were

[fleet wharf]

indeed. do keep in mind that outlaw won't feel great until you have more haste, you might not hit that until late s1 or just not at all this season

[tepid raven]

We went from the most powerful we were all expansion with the most secondaries to the weakest with the least

It’s very early on in the life cycle of all these specs

[analog granite]

Yeah all true

[tepid raven]

Not that there’s not issues or the changes weren’t big just something to keep in mind

[analog granite]

Literally the only thing that stops me from rogue is the slower pace and downtime so maybe I just need to get over that

[tepid raven]

In a tier we might be right back

[open coyote]

do i just slap crit mastery on my crafted weapon?

[analog granite]

I'm also going to pvp this season probably so rogue is good for that as well

[fleet wharf]

prolly haste mastery if you only wanna play sub, haste crit if you wanna have options for switching to diff specs

[half mural]

sub pvp is insane dmg atm just noticed ysterday in open world

[chilly dagger]

Heya!

Is there any UIs around where I could sneak peak on how to set up mine, now that weakauras are gone? 😮

[analog granite]

Yeah I used to have so much fun in open world pvp as rogue too

I remember playing hide and seek with a DH for like 15 minutes in bfa

[half mural]

hahah classic 😄

[ivory sparrow]

Hey, I have a quick question.

On Bloodmallet it shows Human as the best race, but in Fuul’s guide on Wowhead it says Pandaren is the best. How should I interpret the difference between these?

Also, Bloodmallet lists Darkmoon Dominion: Void as the top trinket. Why is that?

[hazy breach]

Bloodmallet seems janky

Not sure whats wrong

[alpine wraith]

pandaren and mechanome are better right now

bloodmallet idk what uses as a baseline

should be the correct profile but idk

[half mural]

bm waslast time sl good

[lilac stag]

You’ll be back to it after 2 weeks. Everything is more approachable for every spec. The grass isn’t greener.

and nothing is close to DK defensives

[analog granite]

In the past I always came back to dk after trying something else

But the reality is, I cannot do more than 2 dungeons in a row on unholy without getting bored

It's just not fun anymore so yeah idk

[analog granite]

Maybe bloodmallet doesn't take food buff into account?

[ivory sparrow]

I think I’ll trust Fuul on this. If something had changed, he probably would’ve updated the guide.

[lilac stag]

play frost then.

or just wait a month a blizzard will rework DK again

[analog granite]

Frost has been boring since the dawn of time

Played it last season, never again

[lilac stag]

that’s funny since you’re complaining about apm when unholy has traditionally been insanely slow unless you got PI

[ivory sparrow]

On the main Rogue forums in China, there aren’t even any detailed guides to reference, so thanks to Fuul for the guide.

[analog granite]

Unholy feels fine with low apm since I'm still pressing a button every single second

[lilac stag]

you not going to like assa or sub

[analog granite]

That's obviously different to waiting 2 secs before every button press

[lilac stag]

and outlaw is acquired taste

[formal notch]

Is entering stealth slightly buggy? During leveling I notice when I kill a mob iam out of combat but cant re enter stealth directly it usually takes a while even tough the skill is not on cooldown

[heady garden]

might have shadow dance duration still

[swift tinsel]

Do you have shadow dance active

Bc that blocks stealth

[formal notch]

Oh damn guess it kust be shadow dance then

[heady garden]

there's a macro to cancelaura shadow dance and enter stealth on wowhead guide

[swift tinsel]

Ye if you make a /cancelaura Shadow Dance stealth macro that’ll fix that

[formal notch]

Thanks that's neat

Would speed up my questing loads

[swift tinsel]

Since stuff gets blown up so fast in dance with The First Dance you’re usually still in it when you’re ready move to the next

[analog granite]

Damn undead is second lowest simming race for both outlaw and sub

[formal notch]

Yeah its usually 3 4 buttons and targets are dead. However I was like how the hell cant i reenter and teleport to my next victim I used to be able to do that hehe

[west bough]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[distant palm]

on 3 targets, do i wanna storm then strike at full for apex or just strike all the way?

[north moon]

Is there any overview already on where to use shroud in which dungeon in m+?

[lilac stag]

Likely never

[north moon]

Damn so we provide no utility then 😅

[swift tinsel]

Good luck finding stretches of mobs you wanna skip that don’t have truesight mobs packed in

[lilac stag]

We have numbing poison

[swift tinsel]

Could really use a revamp for poisons outside of assassination

[mighty citrus]

i asked myself the same yesterday on my m0 tour. as it is about cp(sh) i guess its storm, but lets wait for the pros

[azure thicket]

goop coated legs can't be transmogged

this is mean lol

[swift tinsel]

You strike to force apex buff

Storm if you need the cp

[vale pine]

i don't think there is a extremely good skip in the s1 pool

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[mighty citrus]

so only ss

[swift tinsel]

You’re only striking if the conditions to strike are met

You storm otherwise

[distant palm]

gotcha

thanks

[swift tinsel]

Think of strike as a bonus press

[mighty citrus]

lol i did it wrong all the way. when i saw the black things around me i ss´d 😄 instead of consuming. well done me

[swift tinsel]

Yeah you don’t wanna use a builder if you have cp and the buff up

[mighty citrus]

so when i see the black thing, i finish, if i dont see black thing even with full cp, i strike

easy

[swift tinsel]

Pretty much

Don’t have Buff but want Buff -> strike

Assuming cp+ sht allow

[unkempt oak]

Is the % dmg increase of that optimization significant?

[swift tinsel]

1.5%

Ish

So you can if you want but won’t crater your dps if you don’t

Gives a little something extra to do which I enjoy personally

[vale pine]

this and the pre pull supercharger are technically the big optimizations you can do

[swift tinsel]

Tried outlaw in Den and swapped back to sub halfway through bc it just didn’t hit the same lol

I forget to prepull dance when I can lol

[warm quail]

Wait so am I understanding this correctly? In shadowdance, if I have an ancient art proc up, I use it. Then, when Im still at full combopoints, I use shadowstrike if I have 5 or more stacks of technique?

[sour horizon]

Sub very enjoyable atm

[swift tinsel]

You bet

[bleak mason]

Is it worth using the secret tech shadow blades macro for a new sub player? Or just focus on using secret tech right after shadow dance

[warm quail]

Interesting

[swift tinsel]

Yeah the more I play sub the more I’m liking it

[swift tinsel]

Imo it’s good to learn initially so you don’t have to re-learn it later

[weak vector]

Sub is amazing. Rogue obviously needs some work, but there's something fun about playing a class that isn't super popular and smashing DPS meters.

[sour horizon]

Apex is great too

[swift tinsel]

I do live for the discord moments when people are surprised by your damage lol

[quick burrow]

I hit black powder and my meter go boom

[weak vector]

I'm ilvl 232 and I top charts for the most part. Takes a little more effort, but yeah, people are surprised

[sour horizon]

Ive been slightly beating a frost mage in our m0 runs xD

[weak vector]

haha thats huge

[swift tinsel]

I tried but ours has like 5+ ilvl on me and he’s a really good mage in general lol

[dry surge]

same

[acoustic lodge]

I just wish Sub had a little more ST damage

[dry surge]

wasn't getting beat out until a demo lock just bodied a run i was in earlier this week

[lilac stag]

M0 stonks. Revisit this in 6 weeks.

[bleak mason]

How would I use the macro. Currently have a macro for shadow blades, shadow dance that I use. Would I just switch from that to a macros that uses shadow dance than secret tech and just press shadow blades first

[weak vector]

I'd take more utility over ST damage. Give us a poison that reduces enemy armor or something at least. I hate being skipped over in Mythic groups

[sour horizon]

Or AoE blind 😮‍💨

[acoustic lodge]

Technically mind numbing isn’t atrocious in M+

[lilac stag]

armor reduction isn’t going to do anything, we already have poison utility and most don’t understand it

[sour horizon]

Like people praise pally dev aura...

Ignore rogue

[short radish]

because pally dev aura works on everything

rogue poisons work on most things

but also doesnt work sometimes

[sour horizon]

As befitting rogue

Like feint

[short radish]

[lilac stag]

People also play Paladin

Have a very basic understanding of it

What idiots play rogue

[sour horizon]

Theres dozens of us!

[short radish]

tbh i think its also a "no one knows what rogue does"

[lilac stag]

especially in m+

[short radish]

whereas everyone and their mother has a paladin

[dry flame]

As the only pure-melee-dps-class in the game, I think we have too much utility. Take it away.

[weak vector]

Paladins, druids and deathknights everywhere - as far as the eye can see

[icy delta]

Hi. Did i miss something in the changes? Or is it only me that its having trouble restealthing after i killed 1 mob.

It feels like im stuck in combat for 3 more sec after enemy died.

[weak vector]

I think I saw maybe two other rogues from 80-90 while leveling

[sour horizon]

S2/3 in tww was pretty good with pug inv for m+, had more success then on my DH which was more geared and higher io. Was weird

[dry flame]

me too, and they killed my lvl 81 priest infront of the delve entrance in eversong woods

[dry surge]

you have shadow dance active most likely

[half mural]

when u have shadwodance up u cant stealth us cancelaura makro

[lilac stag]

why would you expect to see a stealth class?

[sour horizon]

Prob still in dance, with premed

[weak vector]

Okay, now hold on just a sec... 🤣

[bleak mason]

Does a shadow blades, shadow dance, secret tech macro make sense or should I have a seperate macro for shadow dance and secret tech and press shadow blades before the dance macro with tech

[tepid raven]

Eleem mentioned earlier he recommends a blades + trinket macro and a dance sectec macro

[half mural]

i have shadow dance in non stealth bar and secret same button stealth bar works 4 me blades sep

[bleak mason]

Should blades be pressed first or is blades used after shadow dance secret tech?

[sour horizon]

Ideally dance, blades, sectec order

[lilac stag]

Put blades on one macro. This will have your trinket as well which has a .3sec delay for dance to get haste. Dance+Sectech on another.

[bleak mason]

Would it than be blades macro than dance sec tech macro one after another or the other way around

[lilac stag]

Blades first

[icy delta]

wow........... thanks a lot that was the issue idd 🤦‍♂️

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel like I said, never weapons in vault... mount luck on point

[swift tinsel]

that's from the wave defense event right?

[lilac stag]

ye

[swift tinsel]

dang very nice

[sour horizon]

I thought that was 100% both me and guildie got it first bag

And a dude was afking on it when we did it

[lilac stag]

other two i was with didnt

[swift tinsel]

think I've done it twice, should probs farm lol

[sour horizon]

Shit we lucky!

[swift tinsel]

its def not 100%

unless I have it and don't know lol

[sour horizon]

Same thing with lynx in hallow in tww xD got that pretty early too

[wispy pebble]

what is the best way to sim for m+ atm? Ive read that dslice ist kinda bad

[vale pine]

dslice

[wispy pebble]

Well ok thx XD

[solemn isle]

there is no reason to track supercharged combo points in my UI right? it changes nothing about the rotation?

[alpine wraith]

well ideally you want to supercharge coup and or sec tech

but that is something you think before using dance

[wispy pebble]

wouldnt you always supercharge sectech? Since we only dance with it up and insta use it (except in SB)

[azure thicket]

if you did that you probably overcap on shadowdance charges

[solemn isle]

we wouldn't hold coup for the second dance in during SB though right? surely you just send every finisher as soon as possible and if coup goes right before the second dance then so be it

[wispy pebble]

no since we use 2 in shadowblades

[alpine wraith]

although for prepull you do want to dance once and know you have those

[alpine wraith]

yea you always supercharge sec tech if possible

but sometimes you dance coup strike sec tech not a dps diff but sometimes it works like that if you already have an apex and coup ready

[warm marlin]

that not gonna work with premed

[wispy pebble]

Ah i see. I dont think ive ever done that

[alpine wraith]

you have apex 3 from stabbing/storming before dance then strike sec tech it works but it is neutral

you can do either tbh

send sec tech first

the funny one i expect people to not catch is the sec tech strike but first strike does not proc apex so you have to strike again

then evis/bp if needed

[copper parcel]

are we using one backstab in shadow with dance macabe and does that make consuming the gauranteed crit shuriken storm worth it in single target too during shadow dance?

[warm marlin]

no
no (mostly). if you need to start your dance at low combo points, you can use a dance/storm macro to avoid a slight delay that is unavoidable when trying to cast dance/shadowstrike but if you are not specifically using this macro in that scenario then no

[alpine wraith]

the dance+storm thing is mainly for DS

as trickster ideally you always begin full cp

and sec tech or coup or bp

[slim gale]

So, since Im kinda smooth brain and not good at all is the general jist of Sub to use Shadowblades into two back to back dances, with SecTec used in this window, outside of that use Shadow Dance when you can pair it up with a SecTec, and if Shadowblades has 10seconds or les before its back up, hold the dance charge

[alpine wraith]

you play around sec tech

so what happens most of the time is you delay blades a bit

[lilac stag]

we have so many questions in here. I swore during prepatch and beta this was “easiest melee spec ever” and “just 2 buttons”.

[tulip light]

just wait for all the "my class is 2 buttons why is my parse green"

[lilac stag]

Way ahead of you.

[alpine wraith]

we are prepared

[plush roost]

Just make it the ravenholtd discord icon on march 17th

[onyx flame]

I think the spec is fine, 1 more button won‘t hurt so it is future safe to not get bloated when new things get added and it is more easy to adept then.

[alpine wraith]

dont think you know what the average wow player wants

people here want to macro the 5 buttons we have

to make it 2 or 3

idk

literal pedal gaming

[tulip light]

i want an all in one macro LUL

[onyx flame]

The people wo say this played their „hard“ specs in tww with hekili. Change my mind.

[hollow spear]

A pedal for off gcd buttons would actually go hard

[alpine wraith]

mouse buttons are for that

[lilac stag]

don’t think you were playing sub with hekili as much as fuu tried to help get it workable

[alpine wraith]

almost 20 year old hack

[hollow spear]

Confusing the pedals and shadowstepping into a hole instead of using cloak would go even harder

[plush roost]

Well idk ur just kinda forced to macro dance due to server lag and dumb haste breakpoints. Id be fine just doing dance > sec tec manually

[alpine wraith]

need pianists or guitarrists to kow how to pedal

[onyx flame]

Well i didn‘t play rogue since wod

[alpine wraith]

damn wod was cool

[lilac stag]

congrats?

[alpine wraith]

time to make a compilation of people missing gcds

[onyx flame]

Raids and Rogue were fine back then

[plush roost]

Hello im in this picture and i dont like it

When u hit ur dance sec tec macro and the tank micromoves out of melee range

[alpine wraith]

ah that is me too sometimes

or mobs moves a bit to the side

[hollow spear]

Rage inducing

[alpine wraith]

and suddenly you dont have fov

then those 0.3 secs miss you the last gcd

AaaAAaAAaAA

[plush roost]

Like people complain dps adhd a d a d ad move

[hollow spear]

Need 850 haste

[plush roost]

But tanks bro

Those fuckers are the real adhd players

[alpine wraith]

im getting used to shadwostep fast

if i dont see sec tech going on cd instantly

[lilac stag]

monks are the worst

[hollow spear]

I'd subscribe to that even without context

[spiral needle]

Jokes on you guys, lot of the "class is 2 buttons" people don't even clear heroic

[alpine wraith]

we know we are the minority

sometimes it is cool for people to get a reality check

[onyx flame]

They have a hard time now anyway since there is no internet in iran

[strange harness]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tulip light]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[tropic merlin]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[mighty hamlet]

Ok but I feel like I need this. https://i.imgur.com/6uoR2OX.gif

[vale pine]

looks goofy

[dry flame]

My Rogue after all M0s - 233
My alt after 4x - 236

[wispy pebble]

classic

[dry flame]

https://giphy.com/gifs/selim-slam-angry-yakuza-1AxP4HW17LhsKH22uB

[wispy pebble]

im at 231 and have 2 m0 left 😄 but i also still have to get the 3 rep items

and in theory i could craft but im waiting for raid and balance patch

[warm marlin]

/cast dance
/cast step
/cast sectec

not thinking big enough

[lilac stag]

/slap tank

[wispy pebble]

/script C_PartyInfo.LeaveParty()

[lilac stag]

um I aint waiting in LFG for another 3 hours kthx

[wispy pebble]

Just be so good you get insta invites POG

[calm smelt]

Hey guys, I noticed that in the rotation guide, you are supposed to secret tech during dance, if I’m starting a pull with combo points, would I not just want to use it for secret tech then dance? What is the significance of using it during dance vs out of dance? Thanks in advance!

[swift tinsel]

big damage boost inside dance

between supercharger and finisher buffing talents

[calm smelt]

Got it, thanks man

[astral axle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1181574946321870999/1474155743987892366/bahahaha-ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter.gif

[vestal escarp]

Why are there 16 m0?

[whole forum]

Hi guys, can someone tell how good we are rn on M+? I rem I was struggling on TWW S2 as sub

[limpid sage]

M+ hasn’t started so it’s hard to know

[whole forum]

Sorry I meant to say the dungeons we can do so far

[limpid sage]

Ah ye sub rogue is super good in lower keys/m0

You just delete with sectec

[radiant swift]

there are 16?

[whole forum]

Uhm it was good on lower keys too I am just scared about high keys I guess lol

We'll see

[primal dust]

!plater

hm

[tawdry sorrel]

Does anyone know of a good video that will help me understand Simc?

[cyan lava]

Have u guys noticed the default sub profile is simming 160k with cooked stats lmfao

This is not normally

Check him sim profile pls

@vale pine lul

[sour horizon]

This guy doesnt have 188% mastery

https://tenor.com/view/icb-i-can't-believe-shaking-my-head-duck-cigarette-gif-8035362469672454220

[cyan lava]

I am a sad weak chud without 50% haste and 70% crit

[vale pine]

ill re-run, moment

should be correct now

[sour horizon]

Didnt adjust for stat squish?

[cyan lava]

It’s still showing 160k for me lol

[lean sigil]

is the renown trinket bugged? no idea if i should replace or not

seems to sim strange?

[alpine wraith]

renown trinket is fine

just sim gets weird

[warm marlin]

they did just nerf it a lot

i would hypothesize it may not be very good anymore and seek to replace it with a similar ilvl trinket

[alpine wraith]

oh wait lol

that is fun

[warm marlin]

given the sim seems a bit untrustworthy

[stuck arrow]

Raid is also in the void - so it benefits from the research upgrades.

I think.

Might be wrong on that.

[grizzled bay]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[opaque trail]

Hey, you know why trick of the trade last 30 s instead of 1h even with the talent selected ?

[viral phoenix]

the initial casts lasts 30 than when you apply it by hitting a mob you're threat redirecting for an hour

[vale pine]

you need to transfer thread for it to get the 1h

[opaque trail]

okk thaaanks

[hazy breach]

Where

[cyan lava]

The one uploaded to github

[hazy breach]

I meant where are you seeing it? Or did you just copy it

[cyan lava]

Whichever profile Bloodmallet is using lol

https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/subtlety/races/castingpatchwerk

Has more than double the stats it should lol

[lilac stag]

you can reach out to them via their discord

[hazy breach]

I mean the default profile has it too

I just have no idea why

All the items are fine

[cyan lava]

It’s not bloodmallets problem

It’s the profile it’s pulling from lol

[lilac stag]

I mean it is if the profile is jank and they need to rerun it once we figure whatever is going on

[cyan lava]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/midnight/profiles/MID1/MID1_Rogue_Subtlety.simc

[lilac stag]

otherwise they’ll just leave it until it pulls again

[cyan lava]

Yeah I was just letting you guys know it was fucked up lol

[lilac stag]

watches Panda race stonks 📉

[hazy breach]

Nvm i see why

Ill fix

[dense geode]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[iron whale]

since I just put 1 single point in Ancient Arts I already see so many more shadow clones proccing

and it feels so good visually

@vale pine sorry for the ping, how are you finding Sub rogue so far?

as in you personally

[vale pine]

I think subtlety is one of the winners of midnight

the rotation with apex feels somewhat fluid

even tho i think the game just massively downgraded gameplay compared to df/tww

[gilded ferry]

lack of skills?

[hollow wigeon]

whats stat prio for sub atm

[alpine wraith]

mastery then haste then crit

vers last

haste up to like 18% or so

if you want a number like 700

[crystal bone]

#subtlety-faq message

[vale pine]

not rly

the decision tree just became a lot simpler

which also means player agency became lower

gameplay is more railroaded so to say

the only break in gameplay is the optimizations, and they don't feel intuitive for most

and are also harder to track because of the loss of weakauras

there are also bugs and some design issues i am not the biggest fan of

[arctic spire]

hey guys im looking for an addon to sound an alert when you have enough stored combo points to spend them with shadow techniques