subtlety

[maiden oar]

ive been fragging on bard in ffxiv though

bards fun

[warm marlin]

it’s been great with work being very slow for months and it’s going to get busy right when season actually drops

flawless timing icl

[maiden oar]

uh oh

[tribal blade]

damn that blows

[keen dome]

friendslo is great.

Peak is great

[maiden oar]

i wanna play peak but all my friends only want to play lethal company style friendslop

and i dont like that kind very much

theyt are so evil

[limpid sage]

The latter is prob more unstable in performance but more likely to improve by finding new optimizations

[keen dome]

There's a mod that makes Peak have more than 4 people possible

that makes it very lethal

[maiden oar]

i wonder if i can become the 2nd guy

if i try hard enough

[limpid sage]

I would put you in that category from what I've seen

I think most people in here are in that category

[maiden oar]

there are a ton of ppl way deeper in that category then

but perhaps!

[limpid sage]

oh ye it's a spectrum 100%

[tribal blade]

i just wait for the smart people to find the best way to do things then copy them

[maiden oar]

i guess i come from ffxiv which is a game that caters heavily towards the 2nd type of player

microsoft excel simulator

[limpid sage]

me too in regards to timers

[maiden oar]

so im biased internally

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[limpid sage]

I do a lot of my own cooking in regards to buttons in between though

[tribal blade]

being in your spec channel is a super power

[limpid sage]

really is

[tepid trellis]

once you have a base understanding thats very solid it just becomes very easy to apply it in different settings

[limpid sage]

I've told so many of my friends or guildies to literally just check out their respective class discords

[tribal blade]

a lot of them do, but it's usually just to quickly drop in to check out the latest info then bouce until the next patch update

[maiden oar]

subcord is so helpful

[keen dome]

Ye. Just go read and study and a lot of it's pretty simple once you get the gist.

[tepid trellis]

most of my data for how im gonna play stuff i just get from yapping with exile and watching his prog

[limpid sage]

it's so easy to go from blue parser to purple/orange parser by just somewhat comprehending what's written in there

[keen dome]

100%. It's how I got my better parses in S2 and S3

[maiden oar]

ok thanks for the advice im gonna cold dm him during prog

[alpine wraith]

i love talking with exile yea

[maiden oar]

and if he doesnt respond ill send more dms

[alpine wraith]

not the best idea to do that

[tepid trellis]

you could just type in his twitch chat

he usually some what responds to people with genuine stuff

[alpine wraith]

he reads chat a lot yea

[maiden oar]

hehe yeah im just joking

[subtle hazel]

Play arms warrior. 3 times more buttons.

[tribal blade]

how DARE you

[tribal blade]

you couldn't have suggested to play a more down bad spec

[alpine wraith]

he did

[maiden oar]

i think it depends on the spec

[tribal blade]

TRUE other channels are not like this one

[alpine wraith]

there are always cool people around i guess

[tribal blade]

more helpful as well

[vale pine]

content creation is such a funny thing

[limpid sage]

Man I wonder what specs are behind the blur

[tribal blade]

yeah gotta hit the masses with a tier list because it sells 😉

[tribal blade]

TRUE it's a mystery

[lilac stag]

if buttons matter it a good call

[maiden oar]

play totemic enhance

[tribal blade]

lol fair enough

[maiden oar]

that is my recommendation for anyone who misses tww spec design

[subtle hazel]

@tribal blade I know. I just find it funny one of the only unpruned specs does dog shit damage

[lilac stag]

nobody wants to deal with totemic

[maiden oar]

i do

i love it

[lilac stag]

bet you enjoy DS Mark as well

[tribal blade]

yeah it's very confusing

[maiden oar]

i did until midnight

when they made it so u cant move it while its already up

now i hate it and want it reworked/deleted

[keen dome]

Wild we're so close to midnight

I'm celebrating this auspcious time with pie and chips

[lilac stag]

I could go for fish and chips

[keen dome]

That'd be pretty good. With salt and vinegar and mushy peas?

[supple pawn]

wait shit wrong image

[alpine wraith]

i find funny they nerfed execute twice

just to kinda do a victory lap on arms corpse

[keen dome]

that tier list is wrong

[supple pawn]

arms status

[keen dome]

Arms doesn't begin with F.

[alpine wraith]

arms should be Z

[hazy breach]

Farms

[keen dome]

I would accept G.

For "Guns"

I guess you could make an argument for F is Flex....

[alpine wraith]

like seems someone missed some 0s

like we had on deathstalker in bta for TWW

[sly shore]

@haughty mural did you try addon

[alpine wraith]

then they got doubled then doubled then tripled

[vale pine]

its funny how content creators never show the tier list or only have it visible at the very end

[keen dome]

Still thinking about that website idea, which'd just be like, WoWTierList as a name and it gives you a randomized tier list to every visitor

[tribal blade]

click bait

yeah the entire system of how youtube works breeds this kind of behavior

[alpine wraith]

yea if you are ethical or dont follow the correct ways

you end up not being seen

[scarlet heath]

he is right

clickbaits get views

simple as that

[alpine wraith]

it is kinda a rolling ball too because if you get more views and likes it tries to send more impressions

[vale pine]

part of it

its just content design

youtube partly became unbearable for me because of it

[warm marlin]

Rogue is by far the best one unfortunately

[tribal blade]

what makes me mad is how people purposefully make stuff bad on youtube shorts because it drives up engagement by rage baiting

so you're rewarded for giving out the wrong info

[maiden oar]

are any of them close

[tribal blade]

i've watched so many shorts where they give out blatantly wrong info

and get millions of views

[warm marlin]

specifically because so many higher level players talk there. a lot of other spec discords are not respected by the strong players so u miss out on a lot of stuff and valuable info

[maiden oar]

i remember finding warlock/dh relatively unhelpful but idk if that was bc i was noob or bc they were worse

[warm marlin]

Fdk was actually decent but it was also very simple

[maiden oar]

[alpine wraith]

i have bias on the rogue one

because i only really go into rogue and warr

[graceful mural]

will be outlaw/subtlety okish for m+ pugs max +10. but dont have time to sit in flg (dad). thx for answer

[warm marlin]

Mage is probably one of the better ones

[alpine wraith]

not like warr is bad but just lurk there

[alpine wraith]

for pugs we dont do anything special so it will be painful

but our perfomance is fine

[supple pawn]

Rogue is actually a good one

[maiden oar]

sub will be good in low keys probably

[alpine wraith]

yea if you get invited you wont have issues performing but yea

you know how it goes

[supple pawn]

DH one for all the flack they get i've also found to be nice

[maiden oar]

but u have to have that be known by the guy who accepts u

[alpine wraith]

melee+ no group buff no bl

[supple pawn]

warrior is

[warm marlin]

I’m pretty sure I went to the enh one and got literally 0 that wasn’t in the wowhead guide

[supple pawn]

well arms channel is currently useless for no particular reason

more useful than the spec at least

[maiden oar]

where did u end up finding enh info then

out of curiosity

[alpine wraith]

in wowhead

[maiden oar]

did u just log dive

[alpine wraith]

he said

[warm marlin]

Watched vods

[maiden oar]

oh i assume theres more than wowhead

[warm marlin]

This was tww1 so everyone was playing it

[limpid sage]

me rerolling totemic for Midnight

[maiden oar]

we love totemic

[warm marlin]

Zorthas in particular

[tribal blade]

at that point you prob just watch zorthas

[maiden oar]

icic

[warm marlin]

[tribal blade]

and marvel at the tomato man

[maiden oar]

i begin my multiclass fotm guy arc this season

[lilac stag]

[maiden oar]

so i dont knkw what to do if other specs have bad discord

[lilac stag]

You and everyone else

[tribal blade]

you'll find it nice getting insta invited to pugs

[maiden oar]

hehehe

[warm marlin]

I think dh has been on a steady upward trend

[tribal blade]

but also you'll be competing with a billion other people on the meta spec

[lilac stag]

who likely all suck

[tribal blade]

lol true

[maiden oar]

ok but i am sure if i simply play well enough itll work out long term

[haughty mural]

wasnt able to - had to do massive overtime yesterday since we had a system crash
probably today after work though (:

[lilac stag]

s1 goals. Invite non meta

[maiden oar]

so i wont worry about stuff that isnt that

[tribal blade]

oh yeah that downside is nowhere near bad enough to not play meta

[maiden oar]

i also heard alot of ppl find devourers playstyle unpalatable

[lilac stag]

using prepatch for anything is a crime

[maiden oar]

so maybe if i play that guy itll be good long term when ppl bounce off of it 2mo in

oh i just mean the void meta extension

and void scarred combo thing

not like how much it sucks to have less collapsing stars bc no apex

[subtle hazel]

Uhdk is awesome

[maiden oar]

i like sanlayn pestilence

[tribal blade]

you might want to keep a bunch of meta specs geared

[maiden oar]

if thats good ill be happy

if its rider im so mad

[tribal blade]

and then swap to whatever you need to when/if you find people to run with

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade want the buff icon center or off to the left?

[subtle hazel]

What's wrong w riders

[tribal blade]

UHHH no idea

[maiden oar]

no pestilence

i also like essence of blood queen

[tribal blade]

tbh i'm scared of arcui because i downloaded it and after i turned it on and off again it moved everything

and didn't put stuff back

[maiden oar]

i just want stuff to worry about and track hehe

[lilac stag]

load the profile

[maiden oar]

and big pestilence hit is so fun

does arcui let u anchor the groups to each other

[subtle hazel]

Without WA I don't lol

[maiden oar]

so if ur essential is really big the stuff on the side gets pushed out

[supple pawn]

what spec does this mog look most like it would fit

[maiden oar]

hehe

[tribal blade]

ah i see

[lilac stag]

fixed

[maiden oar]

probably sin

[supple pawn]

ooooo

[maiden oar]

depends on dinars i think

the plan was to commit early and send that guy to an alt run on sunday

[supple pawn]

ty grouch

you has been much helps today

[maiden oar]

so i can get mythic raid items on him and be a tempting applicant

np

[tribal blade]

smart!

[maiden oar]

but also

that means if i guess wrong its OVER

[lilac stag]

welcome to chase the meta

[maiden oar]

so i was gonna do devourer dk or mage

[tribal blade]

it's always pretty easy to swap

[maiden oar]

bc i think theyre all safe

[tribal blade]

i've seen people swap multiple times during a season

[maiden oar]

was this true before dinar

[lilac stag]

Just have 4 alt dps ready to go

[maiden oar]

i havent played a non dinar season

so if we get no dinar idk how doomed it is

[lilac stag]

Swap each week tuning changes

[tribal blade]

i should caveat, it's somewhat easy to swap if you have people to play with

[maiden oar]

ok im sure ill probably play w ppl from my guild or run into ppl if i frag in pugs

[tribal blade]

if you're pugging it can be tough

[lilac stag]

Until you piss then off for swapping so much

[tribal blade]

LOL can happen

[maiden oar]

some ppl in my guild have asked.me if i wanna do keys this season

so should be fine i hope!

[tribal blade]

have they gotten title in the past?

[maiden oar]

yea

[tribal blade]

ah ok yeah hsould be good

[maiden oar]

and i am 3k weekly key crest farm nooblet

[tribal blade]

i have been told so many times by so many different people they're absolutely 100% going to make title

and don't for whatever reason

[glacial eagle]

when gunslinger release

[tribal blade]

usually has nothing to do with skill, usually it's giving up because of time commitment

[tribal blade]

haha if you're performing well in raid it'll transfer

[lilac stag]

When I have time to work on it

Arc also needs full export

[warm marlin]

I mean you never needed mythic items

[lilac stag]

oh can tell you exactly why watching the crash outs in real time in here

[maiden oar]

oh

i saw m+ players lose their minds over dinars

[warm marlin]

But imo it’s a lot easier to just run one guy once through a 6/8M than it was to try to get in multiple times and pray for that trinket out of vault

[tribal blade]

hahaha so true

[maiden oar]

so i just assumed u needed them

[tribal blade]

more so because ou needed to kill mythic bosses to get them

[maiden oar]

ah i thought there were lots of secret m+ only skills like cc chains

[supple pawn]

btw ive been told that sub and outlaw feel shit below 28% haste

is this true

[tribal blade]

and a lot of key pushers aren't on a mythic raid team

[supple pawn]

or without apex even

[lilac stag]

don’t ever assume anything m+ guys say are coherent or complete thoughts. ex: tettles

[supple pawn]

(idk about assa either)

[warm marlin]

The amount of times we ran forgotten experiments and didn’t see a single ominous essence for weeks

[maiden oar]

yea but the implication is hero track raid trinket isnt enough to do higher keys

so that was my takeaway

[tribal blade]

there are yeah, but it's totally learnable

[warm marlin]

It could be a bit different with resil but before it was completely fine

[tribal blade]

i've seen people be fine with hero track raid items

[warm marlin]

Title was like 3-4 levels below r1 keys anyway

[lilac stag]

You generally wants some haste. You’ve got 2 days. Don’t worry about it. Level em and see how they are at that point.

[tribal blade]

you can still fill out most of your gear with myth track from vault

[maiden oar]

ok im dedicated unless new ffxiv ult is really cool and i wanna degen pug it for 3 weeks instesd

[tribal blade]

if you're a good player you'll make up the dmg diff from lower ilvl

[lilac stag]

just crash out in outlaw please and not here.

[tribal blade]

if not be better than a better geared person

[maiden oar]

with resil?

ok i will frag

wahoo

[warm marlin]

No no

Pre resil

[maiden oar]

oh i see

[tribal blade]

yeah gap is a smaller now with resil

[supple pawn]

with higher haste does it feel closer to TWW? or is it like fire where it plays like (not wrath but some other expansion)

[tribal blade]

i just realized you're gonna learn about resil hell

[warm marlin]

The last time I did push keys was the last season before resil

I’m scared to see the new world

[tribal blade]

have fun sitting in the same key for 3-5 hours trying to push it back up

[tribal blade]

bro it's so bad

[maiden oar]

im used to ffxiv ults which are like 20 minute fights where 1 guy messing up sends u back to the start

[lilac stag]

It’s just about fitting extra globals in dance as sub.

[maiden oar]

and u spend hundreds of pulls on that

so i can probably manage

[tribal blade]

i was in a resil FG during S2 and a guy in disc literally said "i fucking hate resil, i can't take this anymore" and logged off

[supple pawn]

i dont understand sorry

[bronze turret]

Don’t they have ”stops” at key moments in the fight

[warm marlin]

As a group we legit payphoned with our weekly keys from vault and then logged out, don’t think it works that way anymore

[maiden oar]

there are periods of time when relatively little is happening

[maiden oar]

but im sure there are times in a key that are lower stress also

[warm marlin]

Maybe 1-2 3 hour sessions weekly for like 6 weeks was all we played

[maiden oar]

relative to the harder packs and bosses

[bronze turret]

I meant, ive watched some ff prog and they dont always start over from the very beginning but like an autosave ish

[supple pawn]

ahhh gotcha

[maiden oar]

uh could be savage or dsr

[supple pawn]

so now sub is like

[maiden oar]

savage 4th floors were 2 fights where u kill the first fight and u spend the rest of the instance timer progging the 2nd fight

[tribal blade]

the big issue is the title range key level becomes so inflated because of resil that say you have 19 resil and want to push the key up to 20, timing a 19 is already so hard that you'll spend hours upon hours of trying to get it back to 20

[maiden oar]

except some were longer bosses w no checkpoint

[bronze turret]

Ah

[maiden oar]

and dsr has a short prequel phase u do once a lockout

[supple pawn]

get your shadow dance correct sounds stupid because thats what it always is isnt it

[maiden oar]

and it checkpoints u after

[supple pawn]

except now you get more dance?

[maiden oar]

but its like a 2min rp boss

[bronze turret]

I think wow will be more like FF from now on

[maiden oar]

and the actual fight after that is 17m45s or so

[warm marlin]

Sounds super fun

[bronze turret]

At least that’s what the encounter designer recently interviewed said

[tribal blade]

i've never had so many people whispering me for help to push resil keys back up to a score level

[warm marlin]

glad they removed +2 spamming to snipe specific keys

Good change tho

[tribal blade]

there's also a lot of resil drama

[maiden oar]

clear solution: just be really good at the game

[tribal blade]

and people trying to latch on to others with high resil to leech off them

[maiden oar]

[warm marlin]

Yea I’ve seen some horror stories

[bronze turret]

I think wow will be a casual version of FF. Sounds insane to say but that’s my hot take of the day

[warm marlin]

I only play with a consistent 5 stack nowadays so it’s fine

[maiden oar]

i hope not i quit ff for wow

[tribal blade]

oh yeah will be way chiller

[bronze turret]

Well they are making specs easier to play than in FF and the encounters will be similar but no way they do 20 min fights

[tribal blade]

resil is a much better system if you have a 5 stack

[warm marlin]

one of our guildies sent a screenshot of a log with 30 priory +20 wipes in a row

And another day 20 FG

[tribal blade]

yup exactly lol

[maiden oar]

i think wow specs have more interesting minmax than ff and feel better to play fwiw

ff specs are like

insanely punishing

but not hard

[tribal blade]

also key boosting is INSANELY easier with resil

[maiden oar]

its a very different style of gamr

delaying a button .3s in ff can be a disaster

[supple pawn]

i hope we get complexity again but more in the way of it being obvious since clarity seems to be their concern (i think?)

[maiden oar]

but the core rotation is like very rigid and straightforward

[warm marlin]

back in my day we spammed +2s to get our 16 grim batol, walked in with 5 of those bad boys, and walked out 1:45 later with 5 +15 grim batols

[bronze turret]

Just thinking of these quotes

[maiden oar]

just requires perfection for an extended period of time

[maiden oar]

oh yeah thats fine

[hazy breach]

The annoying part of resil is that its optimal to just spam your resil level for a bit and practice before going into the next one

[supple pawn]

limit cut?? meaning?

[hazy breach]

If you just yolo it you're screwing yourself over

[maiden oar]

limit cut style mechs are a different thing entirely

[bronze turret]

No idea

What it means

Just “more like FF”

[tribal blade]

i think resil should be a charge system

[maiden oar]

ppl numbered 1-8 or 1234 1234 and have to position based on their number

and the boss hits them in sequence

[tribal blade]

you get 2-3 attempts per key

[maiden oar]

sometimes does diff things on even odd hits

or etc

lots of different limit cut style mechs

but basically ur assigned a thing on ur head and u have to figure out where to stand based on what ur assigned and what else the boss is doing

[bronze turret]

To me it sounds like wow raid encounters will pivot towards the coordinated almost dance-like gameplay of FF now that auras are gone

[warm marlin]

I know it’s a bad system for high keys but the tilt of bricking a homework key was just so otherworldly

[hazy breach]

Ye for sure

[tribal blade]

that's the down side to no resil, your key getting bricked into oblivion

[maiden oar]

ff encounters w wow class gameplay sounds fine tbh

[supple pawn]

oh so like sikran/experiments neldris charge?

[tribal blade]

and as it goes lower you can't get the same good players to push it back up

[hazy breach]

Idk if I'd say it's bad, it's just a different feel

[maiden oar]

dunno never did those bosses

i can get u an example but idk if itd make sense

1 sec

[warm marlin]

The boosting stuff is crazy

[maiden oar]

https://youtu.be/rnKHQtYCuAk?t=406

[tribal blade]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xJGKq1kTmKgm_n62ahhY57ZE_uQTmjtqRkGtMTJNOQk/edit?pli=1&gid=0#gid=0

[maiden oar]

this timestamped mech

is a textbook limit cut

[bronze turret]

Yea idm it. Probably better for more people. WAs added a technical software element to serious progging. My guild was lucky to have a phd in software engineering and multiple software engineers

[warm marlin]

Yep the resil files

Good times

[tribal blade]

i know a bunch of people on the list

quite a few actually

1 guy in S2 bought all his IO from 4k players

and i know this guy personally and know he doesn't know them

[alpine wraith]

nah man they are his best friends

just secretly

[tribal blade]

haha

ohhh that's why he pushed with me during S2 DF

and then never made title again after that till that season

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1106224572811984956/1367129809951395871/9sftfb.gif

[tribal blade]

😉

[alpine wraith]

yea same as my 4k io friends they just hide very well

[warm marlin]

Unironically what one of our guild members said when all 8 of his keys were 4 resil group members

[maiden oar]

@supple pawn if the video doesnt make sense i can try and explain it differently

[alpine wraith]

and are iranian for some reason

[warm marlin]

“they’re my friends and they happen to run sales!”

[alpine wraith]

or turkish

[maiden oar]

in ffxiv terminology tower means soak

[tribal blade]

yeah that's what lashga was saying in here

[warm marlin]

I cannot speak, big trouble

[swift tinsel]

ETA GG

rip the goat

Man hated rainbows to an insane degree

[warm marlin]

He called me a racist last time

ragebait deployed

[swift tinsel]

Lmfao in what world

[tribal blade]

damn

[bronze turret]

The wow selling community is prob the worst shit ever to exist

Ran like a mafia

[warm marlin]

@tepid trellis probably remembers

[grand wyvern]

people pay to not play the game

[bronze turret]

I remember when it was legal to make sales, if you didn’t participated you were an idiot

And so we had to play with boosters all the time during farm

Very fun

[bronze turret]

Whales

[alpine wraith]

some people struggle to realize it has become normalized almost everywhere

not much we can do

[supple pawn]

i think i see it. is the 2-4-6-8 actually from the game (randomly generated and specific) or is it just those players are marked and any of them can do it

[bronze turret]

Didn’t blizzard swing the hammer on the biggest communities or did they rise again?

[alpine wraith]

just try to feel the achievents as a personal thing not something to brag about because well for a price anyone can have them

[supple pawn]

and they just assign themselves those numbers to make it more clear

[alpine wraith]

they changed some rules

now the advertiser needs to join the run

[lilac stag]

Class (💰 ) Warfare

[bronze turret]

Gally still exists?

[grand wyvern]

people pay for currency in poe to have a perfect character, but having a perfect character is when you stop playing, it doesn't even make sense

[maiden oar]

the game marks them

[alpine wraith]

but they did kill many comunities

[flat sun]

What is the topic related to Bosting?

[alpine wraith]

just banned lots of RMT

[maiden oar]

the mech starts and u either get a number or nothing

[alpine wraith]

not the people boosting

[maiden oar]

and u have to react to what u get

[supple pawn]

alright

[alpine wraith]

like uunat/etraeus

[supple pawn]

I see yeah

[maiden oar]

but xiv has a ton of mechs like that

[supple pawn]

never played those x.x

[alpine wraith]

THINK FAST

[maiden oar]

its just a very different style of game

[bronze turret]

It’s funny how very good guilds in wod made real life salaries from rmt boosting and it was allowed

[alpine wraith]

oh you should watch a compilatiuon

i know a few people from cheaper Eu and midwest countries

fully living off wow

[bronze turret]

Ye same

[maiden oar]

what the

[alpine wraith]

even in south america it happens a lot

[maiden oar]

even now?

i knew ppl did that w lost ark

[alpine wraith]

i mean what do you prefer working a shitty job and maybe get stabbed in the street

or play wow

[maiden oar]

but i didnt know wow was like that

[bronze turret]

A former raider from Iran that boosted for a living. Made more money than his dad🤣

[alpine wraith]

and make the same or more

[grand wyvern]

now they just do it for gold and sell that on the black market

[maiden oar]

oh i believe that its better i just thought there was no money in it relative to korean mmos

[alpine wraith]

think wow is easier for most people in the west

[bronze turret]

In wod you could make thousands of dollars from boosting

[alpine wraith]

the east has its own ecosystem

[maiden oar]

but also i started playing in tww

[alpine wraith]

so many games are P2W there

[maiden oar]

after i grew disallusioned w xiv

so idk what it used to be like

[alpine wraith]

"piloting" is a normal thing

[maiden oar]

hehe

[bronze turret]

In china

But they have also started banning it

[alpine wraith]

that is why you see huge bans coming yea

they are cracking down

[bronze turret]

It’s good, play the fucking game

I wonder if people will buy accounts based on housing in the future

Some dude built an amazing mansion, basically a realtor for wow

[alpine wraith]

if there are limited decorations yea

you can sell the blueprints but if it uses some CE shit

unluck

or glad things

[grand wyvern]

yeah housing is the next whale bait, at least it doesn't ruin a competitive enviroment

[bronze turret]

When I was a teenager you could sell wow accounts based on glad titles etc and get a decent chunk

[maiden oar]

old wow sounds kinda funny

i wish i started playign earlier

[alpine wraith]

now glad is whatever

[bronze turret]

Yep

[alpine wraith]

but r1 still goes around

[maiden oar]

probably got to meet some characters

[alpine wraith]

or well the big title

[bronze turret]

R1 is so much harder to get tho

[alpine wraith]

as it should

i never got r1 closest i got was s2

and was off by like 30 points

[bronze turret]

Unfortunate

[alpine wraith]

nah 30 at that rating

was like 4 wins or more

[supple pawn]

@maiden oar how long should i spend with each spec

[alpine wraith]

and if i got matched vs some madlad like reckful or some shit

[bronze turret]

I used to play in the same guild as Xirev, which is the biggest wow nerd in the world.

[supple pawn]

gonna hop on beta and test stuff out

well. first im making a mog for every class

[bronze turret]

Even met him irl. So yea, he’s a character for sure

[supple pawn]

then i will test specs

[alpine wraith]

i remembe playing vs neilyo too when he did an Eu char

[tribal blade]

i think playing vanilla wow back when i started in 2005 was one of the most magical experiences i've ever had in a game

[maiden oar]

i have no idea i think thats a personal thing hehe

probably 15m at least

[alpine wraith]

i starlat late nov 2005

was crazy

[maiden oar]

maybe 30

[alpine wraith]

took a bit for eu servers to come home but i was omegaclueless

[tribal blade]

same! around august for me

or september

[swift tinsel]

Think I was late 2006?

[alpine wraith]

actually when was AQ40 released

[tribal blade]

i remember running into a hunter who used feign death

[maiden oar]

maybe if i keep playing wow i will get to meet some characters still

or become a character

[tribal blade]

and i started to spam /die /death /falldown

[swift tinsel]

I remember there being a bunch of snow when I was doing the five disc install process lol

[supple pawn]

do you think dummies is fine enough to feel specs out?

[tribal blade]

then asked him how he did that

[maiden oar]

u can tell if u think pressing the buttons is fun

[alpine wraith]

i remember doing nefarian and other shit just before gates opened

[bronze turret]

This guy has done this for every single expansion since then.

[tribal blade]

also running into a pally in westfall on an epic mount and full epics

looked like god

[bronze turret]

He got glad on like 12 different characters

Just for fun

[maiden oar]

crazy guy

[supple pawn]

im confused what you mean sorry

[fossil forge]

Adderall was involved.

[bronze turret]

To get each armor set for both factions

[tribal blade]

that's actually next level insane

[bronze turret]

Ye he is insane

[alpine wraith]

he likes to play the game

hats off

[keen dome]

He's very powerful

[bronze turret]

When I first met him in game he was on his way to /walk across the entire game because he was bored. Chronically online

[keen dome]

Haha, that rules

[maiden oar]

oh i mean you cant know how they interact w fights but its enough to know if you will find it fun enough to be motivated to improve at it

[keen dome]

I think he has a video on the Employee of the month grind? If it's the same guy (which I assume it is)

And it's a great one

[maiden oar]

like tww s3 sub i had so much fun hitting a dummy on it

[bronze turret]

And then you meet him irl and he’s like normal built and kinda handsome. Weird ain’t it

[maiden oar]

so i was really motivated to learn how it interacted w fights

and that was more fun than the dummy but

hitting the dummy being a fun experience was still foundational

so trying to just find one thats fun to punch dummies on is fine

[lilac stag]

my favorite is still DoubleAgent Panda

[maiden oar]

what the

[keen dome]

Haha, yeah, DoubleAgent rules

[bronze turret]

He has done a ton of interviews about his achievements. We kept him in the guild for like 5 years until his obsession with achievements was more important than prog

[keen dome]

Haha

He's an inspiration.

I'd love to pursue the same goal of finishing everything in WoW but some stuff is just.. urgh. Not stuff I want to do (Glads, etc)

[bronze turret]

He plays like 18 hours a day all year round

[keen dome]

If I could get this finished I'd be happy

[bronze turret]

Kinda hard to match

[keen dome]

Yeah I just idle 18 hours a day

[bronze turret]

Don’t think he ever idles. Absolute nutcase

Always in pvp, raid or m+

[alpine wraith]

what a trooper

[keen dome]

Yeah, the determination is fantastic

Absolute hero

[subtle hazel]

On beta what is that 2 black spell alerts

[supple pawn]

my my

[bronze turret]

2384 days is massive too

[keen dome]

I also like doing everything on one character so it limits the alting stuff

But All The Things progress makes it worth it.

[bronze turret]

I don’t dare asking xirev his /played

[keen dome]

Having over 55% of all of Wow finished.

[bronze turret]

Don’t want to know

[keen dome]

I'd be curious if he has any single character that can match mine, but I suspect his overall /played is probably the highest in the world.

[bronze turret]

His mage prob can

Been his main since he started

[keen dome]

That's rad if so

I absolutely love it when you find people playing WoW in their own way and they're good at it.

[bronze turret]

But ye he has multiple accounts full of max level characters. Helped during hc runs early on

[keen dome]

Incredible

I wish I could 100% complete WoW on a single character.

[subtle hazel]

Is it the apex talent causing the 2 black spell alerts

[swift tinsel]

ye

[subtle hazel]

What is it indicating?

[swift tinsel]

your next finisher will proc a clone attack

[subtle hazel]

Ohh

[swift tinsel]

and refund cp

or rather pull from your sht stacks to fill your cp bar

[subtle hazel]

Nice. I wish they let us customize those in editor

[swift tinsel]

yeah all you can really do is adjust the opacity

[subtle hazel]

Like change position and size

[swift tinsel]

which is kinda stinky

[subtle hazel]

Rip WA

[swift tinsel]

I wonder if BetterBlizzFrames can

I would assume so

[chilly kite]

@vale pine question, are you and the other guys updating the spreadsheets and wowhead guides from pre patch to midnight today?

[swift tinsel]

wowhead is updated already

[chilly kite]

i clearly am not awake lol mah bad

[swift tinsel]

lol all good

[astral briar]

how do you guys track Find Weakness on a target?

[swift tinsel]

you don't

its a self-buff now

[lilac stag]

It’s also not really worth tracking

[chilly kite]

still trying to figure out which spec i want to level with, normally i'm an assa andy but decided to start sub this season just not sure if trickster or ds are gonna matter for leveling

[swift tinsel]

trickster

dealing with mark as little as possible is good for the mental

[graceful rock]

Increased pick pocket range cooks

[astral briar]

what does that mean?

[swift tinsel]

its not a debuff on enemies, its a buff on you

[lilac stag]

it’s a buff not a debuff

[swift tinsel]

they changed it with midnight spec tree adjustments

[chilly kite]

i need to get rid of that stupid glyph for pickpocket lol turning into a different character everytime i attack is annoying, did they actually add shit for us to pickpocket again?

[lilac stag]

you had an entire expansion of pickpocketing wax

[chilly kite]

yea but i want like broker pickpocket legion style

i wanna pickpocket an epic dagger or something, other than a romance novel

[lilac stag]

well you just missed remix

[astral briar]

ooooh no way

[swift tinsel]

yeppers

[chilly kite]

like we had wax sure, but do we get anything to pickpocket in midnight or is it back to 4 silver if lucky

[lilac stag]

and I want goremaws to be good. We dont always get what we want

[swift tinsel]

pickpocket, lock picking, disarm trap, all pretty much fallen by the wayside

with the exception of wax which I'm pretty sure people ignored most of tww

[chilly kite]

i'm sitting on like a 500 stockpile of wax just because my pickpocket was macroed into my attacks

[graceful rock]

We can disarm the traps in the Nexus dungeon

[swift tinsel]

yuge

[graceful rock]

Auto invites in that dungeon for sure

[swift tinsel]

we're so Brak

[keen dome]

they need to bring back pickpocket for stuff. Bring back our boy griftah

aka Jani's avatar

[swift tinsel]

agreeeeeed

[chilly kite]

we need swirley ball back

[late shale]

Torn between giving simplified sub a try or fotm devourer. Mostly do M+ and I don't want to struggle to get key invites

[swift tinsel]

if you think sub is simple I got news for ya lol

[chilly kite]

is it, that it is?

[leaden tulip]

what is a good haste% to be at. im 162ilvl

[swift tinsel]

devourer is like half the brainpower of sub

[chilly kite]

how is that even possible with the midnight dumb down

[swift tinsel]

bc devourer was never not-dumb to begin with

[slate marlin]

is current sub brainpower using shadow strike when on full cp and at least 5 sht stacks?

or is it something new

[leaden tulip]

yo i have not been around in pre patch. is haste good now ??

[keen dome]

Sorta.

[swift tinsel]

it does things for us

unlike before

[late shale]

I'm not saying devourer is more difficult, but definitely more likely to get brought to a pug key based on what it brings vs a rogue.

[leaden tulip]

kk. should probably balance the stats a bit for tomorrow then 😉 thanks

[late shale]

I love rogue and will likely use it regardless, but it's ehhh right now

[swift tinsel]

you're gonna be questing, I wouldn't put too much thought into it

and replacing gear

[maiden oar]

i think devourer is still fun bc if ur gaming u can get long meta

[leaden tulip]

i just had 6% and sub felt slow as hell

[maiden oar]

but yea its not the most insane hard spec

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah its pretty fun and looks slick, just doesn't have as much depth

[maiden oar]

and i like voidblade hunt

[swift tinsel]

seeing how many cs you can fit in a single meta is a fun lil minigame

and with apex will feel nicer

[maiden oar]

melee build goes crazy

ranged build less so

[swift tinsel]

I kinda wish you didn't just burn both voidblade and hunt to stack the buff

[maiden oar]

but i know caster is better

sob sob

[swift tinsel]

ye its unfortch

[maiden oar]

yea

at least caster having to voidblade for buff is something

[swift tinsel]

eradicate is one of the single most satisfying button presses in the game tho imo

[maiden oar]

hehe

it is

but coup is also kinda good

[warm marlin]

had?

[maiden oar]

im not coping...

[swift tinsel]

played prepatch with like half the recommended amount of haste and it felt a lil rough but I cba to regear anything

and it was a bit of a rat alt

[warm marlin]

i had to go pickpocket 70 more wax yesterday to prepare to run it for all of s1

[maiden oar]

yea im leveling as havoc

we love inertia

[swift tinsel]

big agree

[maiden oar]

what

[swift tinsel]

inertia havoc is quite fun

[maiden oar]

ok ill do that tn

we love wax

[warm marlin]

it might get nerfed/fixed

fair warning

[keen dome]

...what

[maiden oar]

ok ill do it anyway

[keen dome]

what

[slate marlin]

why would you stack wax

[warm marlin]

it scales off mainhand ilvl bros

and has no level limit

[keen dome]

OH NOOOO

[maiden oar]

[slate marlin]

oh

lmfao

LMFAO

[warm marlin]

so it scales the same way into midnight as tww

[slate marlin]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[keen dome]

here I go, stealing from fucking Kobolds again!!!

[swift tinsel]

lmao good thing I have a few stacks

[maiden oar]

ill get 50 wax and call it

[warm marlin]

I have a nice 100 so i can run it while levelling

huge procs on quest mobs

[slate marlin]

cant wait to go to tww zones to get consumables for midnight instances

[warm marlin]

well this is why i think they will level lock it

[slate marlin]

just give void wax to void kobolds in midnight

[warm marlin]

but also, it's a rogue specific consumable from a questline

[maiden oar]

let us steal troll poison

[warm marlin]

that the majority dont even know exists

[maiden oar]

from trolls

[warm marlin]

so it wont get changed

[maiden oar]

in troll town

or harandar nature sap

[warm marlin]

imagine the gold saved on oils season 1 though

kinda crazy no?

[keen dome]

thinking too simple

[slate marlin]

ill realisticaly use the cheapest one in the ah

so

[maiden oar]

from tree guys

[keen dome]

let us steal lightwell juice

[maiden oar]

in tree town

[swift tinsel]

unironically huge

also

deterministic alchemy recipes is a fucking godsend

don't need to gamba on multiple toons to try and get the right flask/pot

and not spend profession knowledge bc you don't know which one youre gonna get for the first like week

[keen dome]

Yeah, overall the changes to crafting are just huge win's

[swift tinsel]

was such a shit ass system

[keen dome]

They did a good job refining it in TWW and they're doing a better job refining it in midnight

[swift tinsel]

the removal of a full rank of craft was also a very nice change

three ranks of mats, three to five ranks of crafts was a bit annoying

and also ate up bag space

[keen dome]

Yeah

It's just good refinement

[swift tinsel]

as someone who relies mostly on self-crafting for raid consumes I'm happy with the iterating they've done

now I can have two dedicated potion crafters and a flask crafter right out of the gate instead of needing to blow myself up trying to learn the two or three recipes I actually want

[keen dome]

Yeah. As someone who's a huge crafter I think it's a great imporvement while retaining the deterministic value crafting has.

[limpid sage]

this + cloak FeelsGoodMan

[swift tinsel]

got my profiteering craft spreadsheet all set for alchemy and jc, might add some other stuff later

[keen dome]

Nice

[swift tinsel]

just have to enter costs of mats and ah price of whatever potion/flask and it'll tell you if its cheaper to craft or buy

with multicraft average factored in

but that part takes a bit to build

[haughty mural]

im always too lazy to really make this new craftsystem happen

ill just level cooking to max

and alch so my flask lasts longer

[swift tinsel]

I have an herbalist alt that I fly around gathering on when I want to unplug my brain so it all works out

[haughty mural]

thats what, 20 points ?

[haughty mural]

used to do that before this system

[swift tinsel]

use the mats from that until the farmers oversaturate later in the season

[light hull]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

if they don't introduce new flask/potions its awesome for material cost

can stockpile a ton for a fairly low price

use alts to concentration burn for max rank crafts

[lilac stag]

Unplugging my brain involves zero pc or phone use. I can’t fathom trying to just farm mats to farm mats. haha

[swift tinsel]

it all started farming thorium to pay for flying lol

would watch youtube on the other screen while riding around ungoro crater

[haughty mural]

what bugs me out in comparison to before:
the ranks on gathered mats

[swift tinsel]

then it was scholazar basin in wotlk, a few diff zones in cata

[haughty mural]

IF i really find the mood to farm
i just want to farm lol

(thats a big IF anyway)

[lilac stag]

I’ll likely use boost on Harinar Druid for farming

idk what else I’d even use it on at this point

[swift tinsel]

yeah I have at least one of everything at max level so I'm just kinda sitting on it til the fancy strikes

[lilac stag]

we’ll see how level feels. Idk if I even want to level an alt haha, though I’m assuming I’ll seed to for crafting at some point

[swift tinsel]

Imma speedrun the rogue and then hit dh and dk, then the crafters

[unkempt oak]

Learning new sub rogue.. do we ever cast shadow dance when secret technique or shadow blades is on cooldown? Or always paired with one or the other?

[lilac stag]

everything revolves around Sectech

so no

[unkempt oak]

even if we're sitting on two charges of dance, we just hold for sectech?

[sullen hare]

Send two dances in shadow blades regardless

Then suction cup your dances to sec tec cd

[unkempt oak]

okay last question, if shadow dance is ready, and sec tech comes off CD in 3 seconds. Do we hold dance to initiate with sectech, or do we start dance and just make sure sectec lands in the window.

[lilac stag]

You did something wrong if this is the scenario

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[misty tinsel]

Hello guys is there any resource I can check to see differences between races for sub ?

[late shale]

Should I basically always macro in Shadow Dance and Secret Technique?

[wintry heart]

Oh wait we can macro things now?

I really gotta read the new stuff

[late shale]

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

per the faq. Just not sure if it's actually worth ALWAYS macroing

[errant steeple]

/macr

/macro

[vale pine]

i will update the sheet soon, there is rly no hurry given that the raid is not out for a while still

[sullen hare]

Play what you like or whatever racial ability you like. Race isn't really important to your parse

[wintry heart]

How much of a dps increase is thicc nelf

That’s all that matters

[errant steeple]

racial is something like < 0.1% dps change

[torn tide]

hi is this updated correctly? cuz wehen i copy it, it looks different

[errant steeple]

don't take care about that

[torn tide]

this is when copied

[wintry heart]

I know I’m being sarcastic 😂

[errant steeple]

Lol my english is too bad to detect sarcasm

[vale pine]

give me a sec, ill check

but it should be up to date

[sinful copper]

seems like the wowhead talents and stuff is for level 90 or?

[wintry heart]

When I copied wowhead build last night it gave me that same build

Didn’t check it before a key 😂

[narrow shadow]

The hero talents on prepatch are not complete, so need to take the best ones

[vale pine]

i think

moment

so, did you import that on beta

or live?

[torn tide]

live

[vale pine]

ye, thats not working

[torn tide]

was that meant for midnight when u get lvl 90?

oh

[vale pine]

because these are for level 90

[torn tide]

ohh

[latent remnant]

the wowhead pages recently all got updated for midnight yeah

[vale pine]

wowhead sadly already updated all of the builds to midnight

[latent remnant]

Was really confused trying to find enchants that don't exist yet

[torn tide]

sorry i didnt know that

[vale pine]

all fine

the faq still has the builds

its not obviouse

i don't remember how it was handled last xpac start

[lilac stag]

Fuu did you put race sims in wowhead? Maybe worth linking directly to with !racials or something

[vale pine]

i did a race sim yesterday

moment

[lilac stag]

I can never remember if that’s a Wowhead thing or a writer thing

[vale pine]

or 2 days ago

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iukmDg7GHGBWcMmNkbM1ZV

mechagnome wins out by 0.4% dps

tho there are a lot of "similar" dps after

[torn tide]

races actually matters now?

[vale pine]

not rly

i got the right one for sure

XD

but like

all of them are kinda the same

in terms of output

[magic cliff]

BE or bust

[lilac stag]

Meanwhile people cause loot drama over a 1.6% trinket drop

[vale pine]

night elf and blood elf too

[magic cliff]

Live the valeera dream

[vale pine]

so the diffrence is rly small

[torn tide]

based

[vale pine]

the outliners are undead, vulpera etc

the new race seems to be not functional in simc

[lilac stag]

VE still BiS. Ain’t no one wants to be a dorf.

[latent remnant]

that -0.3% is the least of my damage loss worries lmao

[vale pine]

atm

[narrow shadow]

VE will always be BiS for the transmog discount

[lilac stag]

I like the portal as well

Also more purple.

Stacking 🇼

[warm marlin]

simming with the void pot

not like this

reverse sandbagging!

[misty tinsel]

thanks bro even shadowmeld doesnt allow things ?

[alpine wraith]

shadowmeld helps to avoid some mechanics in dungeons

not many in raid or if any if i remember

[vale pine]

bro

you are a melee

just move out of the void zone

[graceful osprey]

Wait….is undead that low…

[vale pine]

[warm marlin]

[keen dome]

just cloak it

[warm marlin]

it goes through cloak

[alpine wraith]

just make the fight underwater

[vale pine]

haha

[alpine wraith]

for more than 5 minutes

you win

[vale pine]

thats a lot more than when i tested it

[keen dome]

oh. oh no.

well, no choice. stand in.

[vale pine]

does the silence effect work on all spells

i forgot to test

[warm marlin]

this was like 1 month ago or something

i think

maybe 1.5

but yes

and it seems like it only spawns zones when you cast spells

[vale pine]

you can just stack them then

[graceful osprey]

Holy, I’m about to race change

[vale pine]

if its on every cast

[vale pine]

i play undead too, its rly not that important

[warm marlin]

I would test it again, but when me and eleem were trying it it was legit impossible

[vale pine]

moment

[warm marlin]

the silence zone is bigger than the visual effect

and it lingers for a little bit after you leave

[lilac stag]

You’re killing all the horde tbc Andy’s

[graceful osprey]

If fuu plays undead, I’m chillin

[warm marlin]

I got like 7 globals in blades or something

very cursed

[vale pine]

ill check again

i mean the diffrence betweent he two potions is rly low

so... its fine if we don't

[warm marlin]

maybe they made it less horrible since then

[wintry heart]

What’s the void pot

[warm marlin]

draught of reckless abandon

alternate version of the powerpot that's stronger but spawns these awful silence pools under you

[vale pine]

okay

XD

i made it work

but its a bit stupid

[swift tinsel]

do I actually throw out alt plans and go feral

[keen dome]

Feral as in going feral and having sixteen rogues?

[swift tinsel]

...sure

[sonic raven]

Should shadow blade and dance be macrod together?

[vale pine]

let me test again

@warm marlin it spawns ~3, 4 zones if you are unlucky

you can position somewhat smartly to keep attacking for the entire duration

i tested it 2 times

[lilac stag]

Go bear, easier to get chicks

[vale pine]

tho it might be not that easy to do on an actual encounter

[lilac stag]

They def can be. Still may want sblades by itself

[swift tinsel]

I wish you could customize your cat form

[lilac stag]

Ye

[swift tinsel]

moonkin get all kinds of options

but literally only moonkin

the rest are full forms

[lilac stag]

Why the interest in feral?

[vale pine]

btw. thanks blizz for randomly deleting my char on beta

[swift tinsel]

just pokin around with it

[vale pine]

i needed to setup a new char,

[lilac stag]

cool

[vale pine]

so much buttons for testing ^^

[lilac stag]

You’re only missing one button

[vale pine]

which one?

[lilac stag]

Blades unless that’s a macro

[vale pine]

its in the macro

[sonic raven]

I’m just looking on wowhead and the rotation seems pretty straightforward and simple just making sure I don’t miss anything

[lilac stag]

Welcome to midnight. Everything more approachable.

[vale pine]

ye

this was 26/30 secs

the proc rate is not as insane anymore

you get usually 3-4 procs

and the 1-2 sec is enough to move out of it

(thats the grace period)

but its a fair point still

also its not as visible with low settings

as you see in my screenshot

[lilac stag]

Are they under the stage?

[alpine wraith]

fuu trying to make people squint

[vale pine]

wdym

[lilac stag]

I’m waiting for the braille version

[lilac stag]

If they are the void circles, where are they? Hiding under the elevated platform you’re standing on?

[alpine wraith]

think some people literally cant see them ahaha

[vale pine]

improved the visuals

[keen dome]

incredible

[sullen hare]

I like your nice big purple balls

[lilac stag]

Fuu out here drawing titties

[sullen hare]

you should probably get that checked out though

[keen dome]

or booty

[vale pine]

haha

[sullen hare]

that tyrandunkadonk

[lilac stag]

That red circle is either a nipple or an asswart

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[sullen hare]

how long until rwf guild healers tell their dps to stand in the void puddles for parse%?

and then it trickles down to the average player who begins to constantly die from it

oh what am I saying, dps are stupid anyway and are gonna stand in it when you're healing regardless of how deadly it is

[torn tide]

blizz should hire you as artist

[wintry heart]

Wdym that’s pretty much our buttons

[limpid trench]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[vale pine]

haha

[wicked bear]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[vale pine]

@lilac stag

what are you willing to sacrafice for 10% more stats during the pull

https://giphy.com/gifs/saw-ahaha-iloveyou-1qnuGtWiouZUI

[astral axle]

those silencing void circles were always awful when i tested on beta

[manic glen]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-infinity-war-everything-avengers-gif-14066494

[astral axle]

and seemed a bit larger than the visual would entail

[vale pine]

i did 4 rounds on dummy

doing the normal rotation

idk if skyflurry/bloodlust makes it worse

but i managed to stay out of the silence for the entire 30 secs every time

the minimum amount of procs i got was 2

[astral axle]

can cloak prevent the silence

[vale pine]

maximum 4

most of the time it was 3-4

[chilly kite]

what exactly does silence do to us

[vale pine]

give me a sec ill test

[vale pine]

you cant use spells

[astral axle]

no spell

[vale pine]

so no strike/evis/etc

[astral axle]

basically "pacified"

[chilly kite]

it should say pacified lol

[astral axle]

i think it lets you AA still

[vale pine]

yes

its a silence effect

^^

not a stun

[chilly kite]

i mean silence useally entailed spells, but not abilities

just more ways to fk melee i guess lol

[vale pine]

some silence effects don't work for melee

let me quick check if cloak works

[astral axle]

i feel like lately ive seen more silence effects which prevent any abilities being used rather than spellcasting

[thick jasper]

what's spells vs abilities here, spells means non-instant?

[vale pine]

spell usually means = cast time

[thick jasper]

and channels i assume

[vale pine]

but abilities are technically spells

[chilly kite]

or instant cast spells like blink

[vale pine]

just without cast time ^^

[chilly kite]

idk its the D&D in me, never once has a monk or rogue been like, o sh*t i can't talk guess i can't swing these hands or daggers

can't whisper in my targets ear so i guess i'm un able to get that backstab damage roll lol

[keen dome]

Silencing a rogue should be a buff

[vale pine]

you can use cloak in the zone it seems

but it does not remove the silence effect

so need to run out