subtlety

[swift tinsel]

I was thinking 40%

[maiden oar]

no way

[swift tinsel]

shoot for the moon, land among the stars (0% buff)

[maiden oar]

would be so cool i love doing st

[kind edge]

Better than nothing I guess?

[strange chasm]

If only they remove coup 1.2 gcd

[warm marlin]

dear god that's huge

raid burst cleave

also W blizzard wrote it in patch notes this time

[maiden oar]

we are getting nerfed!!!!!!

heroic week!!!!!

[warm marlin]

im ok w coup buffs

noobs not gonna hold it for cleave

its sorta prep work

[chrome palm]

hope this means that coup has a separate clone so we can see it on details

[warm marlin]

the only prep we have left

[chrome palm]

or the monkey paw curls and coup clone only hits for one tick of coup

[warm marlin]

25% better than 0%

[brisk onyx]

W

[chrome palm]

so they fixed potent powder clone, fixed coup clone, fixed shadowcraft clones, we are getting nerfed again

for sure

OR they nerfed us knowing they would fix all these things

right?

charrend dont do any trickster keys bro

stay on ds for a minute

dont blow up the spec

[maiden oar]

ok i choose to believe

[warm marlin]

hide the @plush roost files

[maiden oar]

or we get nerfed and they buff outlaw

i feel so bad for outlaw lovers

i hope that spec is busted

[tepid trellis]

they wont need to, their guildies dont have hands so the adds live for 5x as long, so they get to just BP pad it

[maiden oar]

so they can have 1 reason to be happy

[warm marlin]

they wont hold dance for it

[chrome palm]

fuu made a meme macro with coup and bp for fun and you will see it being used in every log review in midnight

[tepid trellis]

hitting the 12 sec gap of it being on cd would be an accomplishment

and id respect it

[warm marlin]

[tepid trellis]

ong

[warm marlin]

as long as they arent sectecing it it should be fine

no wei a few bps is enough

[maiden oar]

maybe theres some more crazy burst cleave guy

[tepid trellis]

yeh cuz bp doesent hit like a nuke at all

[maiden oar]

that can take the fall

[tepid trellis]

there is

its called survival hunter

they gonna rock up

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[tepid trellis]

and press the "Boomstick"

[maiden oar]

i hope they dont come for my knives

i hope 2h is bis

[tepid trellis]

and the adds are dead

[maiden oar]

unless we craft murder row embellish knife anyway

[warm marlin]

true identity exposed

[swift tinsel]

surreptituous yellow namer

can't kill the altoholic

[alpine wraith]

sub icon so special it gets skipped

[swift tinsel]

lol resto shaman was my most-grouped spec

can't imagine why

[warm marlin]

same by a large margin

[haughty mural]

[kind edge]

Yea thats the combat spec. Lol

[swift tinsel]

lol literally called out for this shit

[warm marlin]

it called me an altoholic too

[tepid trellis]

imagine not being a grinder

[swift tinsel]

I'm just not really a big key enjoyer

[tepid trellis]

neither am i

i didn't touch keys outside of gearing

[warm marlin]

ur just not an alter

[tepid trellis]

considering i only played on 3 of these 5 max lvl characters i have

[warm marlin]

not a grinder

[swift tinsel]

all my alt keys were literal shitters, maybe a handful at or above +7

lol I spent 1/5 of that time in keys

[chrome palm]

casual

[warm marlin]

80 of this 874 are dawnbreakers week1 of this season

[warm marlin]

surv higher than law

oh hell nah

[chrome palm]

it was just a phase i promise

[swift tinsel]

me with zero lol

23 specs and none of them pirates

[tepid trellis]

i had 0 outlaw keys all expansion

and 0 outlaw bosses

[swift tinsel]

same fuck that spec

[tepid trellis]

as god intended

[swift tinsel]

underhanded upperhand + crackshot was actual butt

[warm marlin]

literal crack gameplay

i miss it already

[swift tinsel]

more like whackshot

[chrome palm]

i mightve played outlaw for keys if i had phys friends

assa/sub were far better for pugs

[warm marlin]

s2 outlaw did not need anything

well maybe in ur key levels

[chrome palm]

i was mr prio in s2

and also mr not die to killing spree

assa was pretty insane in s2 for certain areas

dtb is insane utility when you want that slow

[opal basalt]

Sub and Havoc on same level

[chrome palm]

genius bingus using KS to pseudo immune one shots

i would expect no less

thats what that was right

[warm marlin]

yes of course it certainly did not murder me on numerous occasions that season

10/10 experience yelling at my healer 24/7 though

good times

[chrome palm]

hate to say it but old ks had SOVL

its just not the same

[warm marlin]

"Killing spree ticking for 77% of my health!"

[chrome palm]

chad suicide spree vs virgin discount fof

[lilac stag]

What’s creating the spec halo?

[opal basalt]

Raiderio recap

All of tww that is

[warm marlin]

also 52% mitigation over the entire dungeon

[chrome palm]

🥰

[tribal blade]

terrorism

[warm marlin]

machinist garden ptsd

[tribal blade]

FUCK

TAHT

BOSS

[chrome palm]

omg

never again please

[warm marlin]

we had a run i screamed at my healer every single ks press

and every time you nearly die

[tribal blade]

oh i fucked up 1 tiny detail of my movement i'm 1 shot

[warm marlin]

i swear the adrenaline went crazy

grapple ks grapple

plus outlaw apm

holy what a time to be alive

[tribal blade]

i was playing sin that season

can't imagine doing that boss as outlaw

get on my level

[warm marlin]

not like this...

[tribal blade]

why is it showing the wrong icon

[tepid trellis]

62% of mine was sub

rekt

[tribal blade]

damn i'm not cool enough

this is actually kinda confusing

[lilac stag]

well I'm super exciting lol

[short radish]

where are these being generated from?

rio?

[tepid trellis]

ye

[brisk onyx]

What’s this?

[swift tinsel]

rio recap

for tww

[chrome palm]

does nimble flurry do damage as if the attack did not crit

[runic sinew]

this is great for rogue?

[lilac stag]

Entire TWW. 6 days of my life I’ll never get back.

[hazy breach]

Yesnt

Bonus crit damage doesn't work

But shadow damage cleaves less than it should too

Because it gets reduced by armor

[lilac stag]

which is funny as it should ignore armor

[chrome palm]

oh so like shadow hit -> armor (bug) -> nimble -> armor (since nimble is phys), like this?

[lilac stag]

make it make sense blizzard

[runic sinew]

If you use apex talent proc with coup, the shadow clone repeat all hits from coup or just single hit like eviscerate?

[hazy breach]

Not twice

Just once

Like if you do 100 phys it cleaves 65, if you do 100 shadow it cleaves 53 or whatever

Because it gets reduced

[chrome palm]

armor doesnt reduce the damage of cleaved physical damage?

i think im misunderstanding this

[hazy breach]

The initial hit is already reduced

[chrome palm]

oh ok

[swift tinsel]

100 shadow hit -> 65 nimble phys -> reduced by armor

[chrome palm]

that is so random

[swift tinsel]

100 phys is the hit after armor redux

[chrome palm]

i just assumed it cleaved the pre armor value of the hit, which would then be reduced by armor

that is really dumb lol

[swift tinsel]

the shadow hit gets reduced by armor when its converted to phys nimble

[hazy breach]

It does

But when I say your hit did 100, that's after armor

[tepid agate]

whats everyones stats lookin like in prepatch for m+ percent wise

hows this lookin

[lilac stag]

No one cares about stats in prepatch mate. Just have fun doing tank dmg for another week.

[tepid agate]

this is very true lmao

[lilac stag]

and when midnight hits, don’t worry about stats. Just sim your gear.

we will have some haste breaks but just let the robot guide you

[onyx eagle]

is blind an aoe again or was it bugged?

one night it wasnt and tonight running on beta it was aoe blind

[lilac stag]

It’s never not been aoe

The tooltip says otherwise

but it continues to be aoe

[plush roost]

good buff

[warm marlin]

charrend i thought we talked about this...

[lilac stag]

Is the coup fix live already on beta?

[plush roost]

something has to be wonky with it

this was the initial coup

and my clone is doing 4x

[warm marlin]

[lilac stag]

4 clones. Duh

[plush roost]

Some ting wong

Wei too lo

Yeahhh cleaving nearly 1m in a single global

Uhm

[warm marlin]

4x clone bug back

is pog

[lilac stag]

Is it only on coup, or all evis?

[plush roost]

u see that first one

seems to just be nimble flurry

[warm marlin]

is that actually wrong

can you drop log

[plush roost]

Yeah im wondering if something else is happenin here

My damage doesnt feel all that diffy

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6tXygzN37qTa4pZ9?fight=2

But i did just wakeup so could just be bad

[graceful rock]

Excuse me

[maiden oar]

[graceful rock]

Does each evis spawn a clone

[maiden oar]

i am on the edge of my seat

[graceful rock]

25% nerf next week

[plush roost]

It does if you cheat your apex ye

Strike at 7 gaming

[shrewd lantern]

theres just something so funny about how little coup and nimble do

in midnight sub

[warm marlin]

it doesn't look like your coup clone is cleaving at all

[plush roost]

Then wtf is that turbo flurry from

[warm marlin]

wym blud

[plush roost]

Oh so im just a silly goose

All is well then

Someone check live

Wait

Fuck

We cant

[warm marlin]

from what I can tell, your entire coup is being replicated as a singular apex clone

that is an eviscerate (ancient arts)

so it looks like its hitting biggie compared to any individual coup hit

and its def not cleaving

no nimble associated with this for example

so its prob only on prepatch

im sure they will version control properly

[plush roost]

Hmm not implemented on beta then ig.

Ye whats the 20000k hits from

Im not at pc anymore so i just glanced and assumed wrongly

Maybe its unseen procs ooo

Hmm no it cant be my highest unseen is 23k

[warm marlin]

coup hit 26k (no crit) 25k (no crit) and 106k (crit), so about 150. clone hits for 223k (crit). ig it probably also includes shadowed finisher damage, so add another 24k (crit) 12k (no crit) and 24k (no crit).

total coup = 217, total clone = 223, but obv clone crit so its gonna look higher

looks normal to me

[plush roost]

Wait

Has coup always done 2 seperate nimble flurry instances?

[alpine wraith]

it has some weird things with shadowed

but they did say they fixed things idk really

[plush roost]

These appear all tied to the same coup no?

[warm marlin]

they all flurry separately

including the shadowed finisher events

each coup creates 6 st damage events and 7x6 flurry events

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/ts-genuinely-frying-me-ts-frying-me-ts-frying-me-gif-15599417133692893606

[alpine wraith]

yea blizz saw the krangle

[plush roost]

Well TiL about flurry and coups. W

[alpine wraith]

basicallt you fail your arms 3 times

and your shadow ego does

then your clones do too

happy flailing

[chrome palm]

all that work for a 2 button roto is crazy ngl

[alpine wraith]

at least we are very physically fit

with so much flailing

[plush roost]

Bro i bet anything

Its randomly gonna be implemented in the next couple days

And im gonna love seeing the surprise nuke

[astral axle]

bro @plush roost does shadewing (pet on 2nd boss in seat) sometimes just like

have an ungodly amount of health and just somehow not die?

[plush roost]

Uh no thats a new one

[alpine wraith]

i remember that boss having some shitty mechanics

but it eludes me

think you had to do something for it to not krangle

[astral axle]

we literally kited that damn bird to third boss and killed third boss and it still was alive xdd

[plush roost]

Lmfso

[astral axle]

it was like an achievement run or some shit

[plush roost]

Yeah thats a new bug me thinks

[alpine wraith]

seems silly

[plush roost]

Was its hp linked to boss?

[astral axle]

no

[plush roost]

Thats probably why

[astral axle]

Ohhhhhhhh

Yeah! that makes sense

lmao

[plush roost]

New bug dropped 1 week vefore launch lock in!

[alpine wraith]

they made lots of dungeon changes

[summer lynx]

When silent storm procs should I use it in single target / in dance or just ignore it?

[alpine wraith]

likely someone did a nono

oh well time to sleep

damn almost 6 am

and for silent storm you ignore it kinda

you can use it as first builder in dance and it is almost neutral and if macroed can help reduce delay in using an ability in dance

but it is not a huge win

[astral axle]

[alpine wraith]

but if we play trickster just try to enter dance with full cp

to sec tech

[plush roost]

XD

[astral axle]

what happened to the rogue spec icons???

Where's dave?!

[tepid trellis]

dave is backstabber

[stuck lance]

do we try and sec tech/dance with 6 or 7 combo or always get 7?

[stuck lance]

what makes DS prefer low combo dance vs trick wanting full combo dance?

[warm marlin]

aim for 7 for sure, don't delay your cast to get more cp

[warm marlin]

science may never know. it probably has something to do with gcds and timing of apex procs/maybe unshakable drive procs but it's not clear. trick can actually start dances at low cp depending on certain haste values in sims, but it can cause things to not align properly later and its all very messy

[stuck lance]

so we dont know but sim said so?

[warm marlin]

basically

[plush roost]

Im getting more and more convinced it has to do with sec tec cd on ds being 10% longer which is why trickster at lowhaste values builder first as well

Having played low haste trickster, your sec tec is like up 1 second after youre capping a shadow dance so it probably wants to dance build sec tec to be efficient

But thats just vibes from gameplay

[warm marlin]

the thing is allowing low cp dances is always more efficient

but for some reason at the 684 value letting it be more efficient causes it to lose casts later

due to just barely going into one of the pooling conditions or something

at the third haste breakpoint low cp dances are also good

[plush roost]

I find as well that at 684 haste you can fit an extra finisher instead of a builder as well

If u start with a finisher

So maybe thats a part of it?

[warm marlin]

but the 4th low cp dances are also good

it's just the second haste amount its like a 3% loss for

[plush roost]

Whats 4th breakpoint?

[warm marlin]

like 2k haste or something

[plush roost]

And thats 4 extra dance seconds?

[warm marlin]

yes and its actually 1664 haste not 2k

or 1800

[plush roost]

Hmm

[warm marlin]

idk we not hitting it this tier anyway

[plush roost]

I assume it doesnt pool either

Ye

I wonder if its cause of sec tec cdr at that amount of haste too

Thats like 17 second cd or something

Id have to like play it

Maybe i can hit that without actives on beta

[warm marlin]

those were also all done with haste on use

im not sure what the pattern is without

[plush roost]

Oh

That makes it even werider lmfao

[plush roost]

🤔

[hollow spear]

Tfd?

[plush roost]

ngl having THIS much haste

is actually really fun LOL

too bad i hit like a wet noodle

[hollow spear]

Perma dance in season 3

[tribal blade]

OR put it all into mastery

and watch PP go to the moon

[keen dome]

Hehe, the PP

no thanks

@teal coral

oh, deleted. nice.

[fleet wharf]

that was fast

[teal coral]

stealthi was faster

[keen dome]

I'm always impressed by how quickly it gets removed

You guys do a great job

[versed hawk]

hows rogue looking for midnight?

[cursive vapor]

poisonous, subtle and law-disliking

[keen dome]

purple

[iron ibex]

@teal coral why do I feel like rogues are getting buff right before the raids open!! 🫣

[teal coral]

depends what the tuning goal is for dps, but initially it seems like we're probably okay

but like some specs are crazy tuned atm

brew is doing sub rogue dps in single target for some reason

and then like some casters are like 35% higher than all the rogue specs

but who tf knows what the number should be

maybe 75k is supposed to be the average

maybe 90k is supposed to be the average

[lilac stag]

Weird 3am whis in sub chan

[jaunty heath]

the only real channel

[lilac stag]

lost assa players.

[teal coral]

I'm working I'm afraid

[lilac stag]

I’m RPing an insomniac.

[teal coral]

good cosplay

[tribal blade]

am i in the right channel

what's going on

[outer cloak]

I bet it’s on a new YouTube video

[teal coral]

I wish

sadly I have other more pressing responsibilities

like making sure all of the wowhead class guides are not dogshit

[astral axle]

hi whispyr can i write a class guide for wowhead for boomkin (side note ive never played boomkin)? i promise to not use genAI

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/fizzer1k-5597-3689-move-along-nothing-to-seehere-gif-12353147

[tribal blade]

i'm scurred

[lilac stag]

It’ll be ok. Just work on your house decor.

[tribal blade]

i haven't touched my house in a bit

needed to take a break

the last build i did took so long and so much work and i think i'm the only person who likes it haha

[lilac stag]

I enjoyed it

Gave me castle wolfenstein vibes

[teal coral]

[astral axle]

[hard trellis]

super excited. rogue is looking amazing for heroic dungeons

[quasi eagle]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale tusk]

hows sub looking against the other 2 specs for m+?

[lilac stag]

assuming you mean beta, fine/good

[plush roost]

atm its the best of the 3 id say

but you know, subject to change

[lilac stag]

less changes if you stop playing it

spend a week spreading dots with CT

[plush roost]

Dw once they implement apex coup im intentionally doing storm sec tec storm coup

And bursting 70m

8% inc

[full bobcat]

didn't they fixed it yesterday?

[lilac stag]

on live

[full bobcat]

so they fixed apex talents on live

[plush roost]

Yep

[lilac stag]

welcome to blizzard and multiple patch deployments

[plush roost]

Doing gods work too dw

Prio dam 8)

[lilac stag]

The just care about deployment at this point on beta to make sure Thursday is smooth

[vale tusk]

is there a build pinned?

[lilac stag]

But do you funnel?

#subtlety-faq

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac stag]

Pick one

[tribal blade]

sin's prio still feels pretty fucking good

all that envenom spam is juicy

[plush roost]

Its a really nice spread of damage now ye

[tribal blade]

is spatter still bugged with singular?

[plush roost]

As in it doesnt work, ye

[tribal blade]

so they fix that and sin becomes god tier prio

[plush roost]

Your bleeds make up the diff

If they fix that sin gets nerfed again haha

[tribal blade]

the CT change is fire

oh yeah for sure

btw dunno if you saw i forgot to apply poisons testing sin on the dummies

set it up for the first time since the rework

[plush roost]

I did

Wp hehe

[tribal blade]

it feels mostly the same as before

except for pressing CT to apply bleeds

it's interesting though that sin is now the only spec with ramp

sub goes straight into burst now

[plush roost]

Yeeee

Subs has a really good concept of 20 sec cd mini burst windows but suffers from basically being forced to sec tec on cd

Holding sec tec is quite bad

[tribal blade]

yeah it's kinda weird

[plush roost]

Like you still will for importsbt stuff but you feel the damage loss

Unlacky ig, sub is still turbo

[tribal blade]

what happens if you hold, do you just send a naked dance w/o sectec before blades to avoid overcapping

[plush roost]

No you hold blades longer lmfao

[tribal blade]

OH

tragic lol

[plush roost]

Our priority is sec tec > dance charges > sblades lmfso

[tribal blade]

that's actually kinda funny we went from holding blades/flag being really bad to now wanting to hold if need be

[tribal blade]

that's crazy

[plush roost]

Well you dont want to hold, u just have to lmfao

[tribal blade]

yeah

[mental saddle]

how's assa energy regen ? feeling starved ? or no

[plush roost]

Infact, sblades is essentially s 1:40-45 cd

[plush roost]

Fatebound is fast and great, ds feels like a slog where pressing feint is like pulling teeth

So its a shame DS is better in keys xd

[plush roost]

Thats part of why pbox was doing so well, sblades is already being held 10-20 seconds, so whats 10 more

[tribal blade]

oh that's cursed af

i was confused over the entire puzzlebox thing

now it all makes sense

[plush roost]

It also stacked with an overpowered potion to make insane burst

Just a nuke button

[tribal blade]

yeah thank god it got nerfed

[plush roost]

Exhibit a

Ignore icon is beta bug,

[tribal blade]

1 mil burst is insane

[plush roost]

Wait thats the wrong ss

[lilac stag]

I think this will just be an adjustment for people. Fury last tier was kinda like that with Bladestorm. You’d have it come back up with a pack living for 10 more seconds but you held for opening on next back to go brrrr

[plush roost]

Not just a 3 second ss, its an entire lust window LOL

[tribal blade]

LOL doubling the 2nd highest person is nutty

[plush roost]

Yeee its since been weakened o7

The great 8%

[tribal blade]

i'm curious to see what happens with coup bugfix

[plush roost]

Probably a significant buff

Id have to like scour a log and add up all instances of coup and flurry to see how much is coup vs white swinfs

[tribal blade]

i imagine this'll be some holding coup and backstabbing at 7 before each dance

well not backstabbing in aoe

[plush roost]

Nah, you get insane sht so if ur low haste u go dance storm sec tec storm/strike coup and youre procced

And if ur high haste just dance sec tev storm/strike coup

[tribal blade]

nice hot

[plush roost]

Is very consistent i find

[tribal blade]

you're pretty much guaranteed to have at least 5 sht on the coup after sectec right

[plush roost]

Its mostly due to the striking at 7 interaction

Sec tec gives 4, 6 if you apex it. Autos will give another 2-4 in that time

[tribal blade]

very nice

[plush roost]

And youll usually have at least some sht going into it

[tribal blade]

do you have a general amount of time you'll be wanting to hold coup before dance

[plush roost]

I havent figured thst out yet, with this change i may legit hold it like 8 seconds

Unseens icd is 15 seconds now so

[tribal blade]

yeah it's so hard to say because with good rng you can build back up to a coup in that time

[plush roost]

8 seconds seems fine

Ill let someone smart figure that out

[slender kraken]

fuu is the guy for that

[tribal blade]

8 secs doesn't sound too bad

[plush roost]

The thing is like, you cant really build spend after 5 seconds anyway

Energy doesnt allow for it

So holding another 3-5 is probably fine?

[tribal blade]

yeah if coup apex is doing bonkers numbers i'm guessing a long hold is fine

but in before the TCs discover "it's not a gain to hold coup for too long, just slam it as it procs"

[plush roost]

In st i think holding is bad

But in a pack its probably good

[tribal blade]

makes sense

also in before everyone using the coup/BP macro wonders why they aren't doing dammy

[plush roost]

Everytime i hold like i would in tww my dps is lower

In st

[tribal blade]

does make sense

we don't have the same amount of dmg modifiers in dance anymore

[plush roost]

Ye that macro was bait from minute 1 to me haha

[tribal blade]

i actually used it for a bit

was kinda enjoying it until i realized it takes away a LOT of agency

and stopped

like moments where you want to BP because you're just killing off some mobs

but you're spamming the button and coup instead

i think for super casual players that macro will be a lifesaver

[plush roost]

I think spending at the end of a pack is correct so your unseen icd is ticking

[tribal blade]

mmmm true

[plush roost]

So you'd spend, build 1, move next, build 2, dance sec tec build again, and then apex coup the 4th one

Idt supercharge apex coup is 100% mandatoru

Its nice but i dont play for it

Id rather spend dance and coup end of a pack

Thats the biggest diff to me tbh

[tribal blade]

less think>more press buttons>more dps

[plush roost]

Before id hold dance if pack is 10%

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[plush roost]

Now i just dance end of pacj

[tribal blade]

before with cdr yeah

[plush roost]

And if its 4 seconds of damage

W.e

[tribal blade]

because you couldn't cdr while going to the next pack

now it just cds the same

[plush roost]

Ye

[tribal blade]

that's a really nice thing about the change

you know for a fact when it's coming up

before you fucked up cdr and it was mega depression

[plush roost]

I mean there was a ton of skill in using dance correctly but yeah, this is way better

[shy ermine]

Sub going to be a demon at levelling now too

Just dance on every mob

[plush roost]

Ye

W

[tribal blade]

sub will look really good in low keys

[short radish]

i've seen this episode before

[tribal blade]

i leveled on the beta before all the recent changes and it was wonky af

[sinful zephyr]

like every season my team will call for sub nerfs and I will tell them it will balance out later ...

[tribal blade]

i have to admit i did a beta key the other day and my immediate thought was "fuck it i'm pushing again this is awesome"

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

but remembered nah

you will push hard at the start and be having fun

then hit the middle of the season and start hating life

and coming in here complaining

[shy ermine]

Not rupturing while the pull is being made is going to be so weird for me

Has been core to the gameplay forever

[tribal blade]

oh it's so easy to get used to lol

tbh

because it's so much less work

but i do have that brain lag at the start of some pulls

where i'm not 100% sure what to do exactly

because my immediate impulse is to spread rupture and prep

[tribal blade]

true and real

[short radish]

im also considering the pushing

because of how much simpler th ings are

[tribal blade]

HAHA

[short radish]

🤡

[tribal blade]

i think a lot of people are gonna think that

until they realize it's also easier for the top end players

[short radish]

yeah

[tribal blade]

so the keys being pushed are gonna be much higher

and the ceiling will be different

[short radish]

i even made a dwarf shaman

[tribal blade]

so the 0.1% will still remain hard to hit

[short radish]

because i didnt want to pay for the reroll

but i shoudl ahve just paid someoen to level for me

🐒

[tribal blade]

lvling is actually really fast now

[short radish]

or levelled last week

[tribal blade]

shockingly fast

esp if you have a lot of 80 alts

i also used remix to level everything to 80

[short radish]

that was entirely event levelling

well 0-10 exiles reach

i didnt play remix

because i was lazy

[tribal blade]

oh i thought exile's reach is only for new players

can't you skip it

i'm not 100% sure

[short radish]

first time

[tribal blade]

ah ok

when i was lvling on remix i had the most fun on fdk

that shit was cool

[solar wasp]

Where to lvl up 70-80?

[plush roost]

Dw last night i played a group of title level players that died to the aoe explosion pulse in nexus multiple times in a row cause nobody wanted to cc.

Games hasnt changed hehe

[lean bone]

caster classes with the cast while moving jewelry was goated

[short radish]

event

[tribal blade]

haha "that's not my problem i'm in cds, someone else will do it"

[plush roost]

Yeah lets make the sub rogue in sblades press blind

Thanks dudes

[tribal blade]

the amount of times i watched crims on fdk go "i cannot i'm in pillar"

"i cannot i'm in prism"

[plush roost]

I mean its true

[tribal blade]

oh yeah an 18 stack prism

[plush roost]

Dps in cds should not have to cc

[tribal blade]

you only do dmg

[plush roost]

I still will cause ik others wont but its pretty bad

[lilac stag]

Was this before or after applying poisons as assa?

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna be real i can't remember lol

i think after

no before

[lilac stag]

[plush roost]

Omg i remember a 20 priory where i pressed flag snd i had to blind double cast, kidnet double cast and cheap shot another double csst

"Charrend why is yoir dps so low"

[iron spear]

Do you use Shadowdance only when we are already at 6 Combopoints before we press Shadowdance?

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade how many days did you have in keys for TWW?

[tribal blade]

that's a fucking tilter

[tribal blade]

uhhh not sure

[plush roost]

"Blake why is your crowd control done so low?"

[tribal blade]

it might not be crazy because i didn't push half of S1 and S3

[plush roost]

Hahaha

[tribal blade]

HAHA

trueee

[lilac stag]

It’s in the recap you did for halo

[tribal blade]

i like doing that shaming

you see meta dps complain everyone is doing low dps

look at cc/kicks and they're bottom on everything

[plush roost]

Mfw i spend 4 globals ccing so my enh shaman can continue pressing windstrike

W

[tribal blade]

noo not when shammy are cc gods

[lilac stag]

just like pvp. shut up and be a good stun bot

[lilac stag]

Haha 10 days more than me

And mine felt like 5 days too many

[tribal blade]

it would be really crazy if i had hard pushed every season

[lilac stag]

I wonder how much time was spent in LFG

[tribal blade]

that number for me would be crazy

during S2

[lilac stag]

ye

[tribal blade]

that's all i did

[lilac stag]

I actually don’t want to think about that

[tribal blade]

double mine what a beast

[plush roost]

W

I really liked season 2 and 3

[tribal blade]

it was very interesting playing with resil for the first time during S2

[lilac stag]

I wish I had that much free time

[tribal blade]

felt like such a massive shift in title pushing

[lilac stag]

Another CST enjoyer I see

[plush roost]

Ig floodgate really was the hardest key

[tribal blade]

i also died the most in FG

makes sense

[plush roost]

Funny how the heatmap isnt mama, or swampface or the jumpstarter pack...

No itd 2x dynamite shredders and scaffolding

Lmfao

[tribal blade]

same for me, 10% deaths in FG

[lilac stag]

The visuals in FG def a challenge for me

[tribal blade]

bro the fucking shredders

never want to do mobs like that again

[lilac stag]

Shredders always felt like yolo defensives on weekly keys haha

[plush roost]

The only mob where ive actually yelled at forrest for lmfao

[tribal blade]

at the start of the season i did a FG with rainxo and looked like a complete amateur because it was storming here and my internet was being fucky so i died so many times in a row on shredderes

[plush roost]

"PICK A FUCKING DIRECTION BRO"

[tribal blade]

it's so annoying

in pugs it's just chaos

absolute chaos

tanks just drag the mobs through all the blades

because it doesn't hurt them

[lilac stag]

Hunter going one way. Healer going one way. Shaman going third way. Cheeks clenched trying to sit in tank.

[plush roost]

Its the tank going into a tiny corner instead of the big open space that gets me

Oh there goes my uptime

[tribal vortex]

Guys what is good dmg in pre patch anyone knows for m+?

[tribal blade]

rAnGeD iS hArDeR tHaN mElEe iN kEyS

[tribal vortex]

I am trying to see if I am doing ok

[lilac stag]

Not rogue

[tribal vortex]

I have like 50k DPS in 18

[tribal vortex]

I know that but I have to play rogue

[lilac stag]

Come back Thursday evening

[tribal blade]

i have done 0 prepatch keys so i have no idea

[tribal vortex]

Yeah me too, I guess assa is way behind right?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/the-book-of-boba-fett-din-djarin-this-is-the-way-the-mandalorian-pedro-pascal-gif-24828674

[plush roost]

I did 65k in a 21 floodgate that is my only prepatch key lmao

[tribal blade]

poor guy in a title range FG after the season's over

[lilac stag]

Down to 45k after 8%

[tribal vortex]

I guess I am ok as I you do 20% more damage based on skill diff

[plush roost]

That math isnt mathing🤔

[lilac stag]

@tribal vortex best advice. Just don’t worry about it

stop running keys

[plush roost]

I did 53k as assa in a 24 ecodome as well

[lilac stag]

Prepatch is a joke

[tribal vortex]

We are doing a local community tour

and I am playing rogue

and I like being competitive

Idc but I wanna play well

[lilac stag]

wtf is a local community tour

[tribal vortex]

Greek mdi

😂

[plush roost]

Nothing wrong with aspiring to play well

Ye 50k on assa is probably fine

[iron spear]

Can Coup de Grace be animation canceld? Because the animation is so long, that I already do the next ability before the animation is ending. But I assume, that the dmg from Coup de Grace already happened and the animation "canceling" is just visual?

[plush roost]

Nope

[tribal vortex]

Also I main assa so I want to improve on sub

[lilac stag]

Nope, just prepatch and rogue

[plush roost]

Its a 1.2 gcd unlucky

[iron spear]

so it is just visual looking like it is "animation canceling" but in reality no "canceling" is taking place. Correct?

[lilac stag]

Just spasimo when you’re above brewmaster in dps

[lilac stag]

You won’t see the animation if you’re not at max melee range

[tribal vortex]

I am kinda second dps

so I ll take that as a win

[iron spear]

Mh. Dont know. Im Panda, I always see him waving the daggers around and the specific sound of coup. And then at the end of the waving instantly the next animation before the char goes back to the "initial-starting-animation". Hard to describe to be honest. I think, because it instantly goes from one animation into the next, i looks like animation canceling. But it is not.

[crisp marlin]

Is sub really that undertuned rightnow?

[lilac stag]

coup will always be 1.2 second gcd. You’re not cancelling anything.

[dense jasper]

i'd encourage you to slap some beta keys and see how you feel about it

[iron spear]

Yeah, that was my question.

[lilac stag]

On prepatch? Yes

it also doesn’t matter

It’s prepatch

[dense jasper]

separate to that. are you guys having bugs with shadow techniques on live? for me, shadow techniques has been deleted. but on beta its fine.

[crisp marlin]

Nah I just kept getting below our tank in dps in dungeons while leveling and wondered if I totally forgot how to play

[dense jasper]

ah yes that is wholly irrelevant to this channel

[crisp marlin]

At least now I know I wasn’t going insane

[lilac stag]

Leveling

[dense jasper]

leveling issues are not the focus of the minx/max sub discord

[formal helm]

you don't get it
if we're not #1 by 60% on prepatch, it's jover.

[formal helm]

it's also such a wonky system bc of the scaling

so who cares

[dense jasper]

totally right

[lilac stag]

your error not leveling the rogue during remix

Sorry

[formal helm]

true

[dense jasper]

but its worthless to spend any energy into figuring out the .000005% of time spent leveling process compared to the M+/mythic parse challenge

[formal helm]

will my 5 rogues at max level be enough for midnight? @lilac stag

(Idk why I have 5 fucking rogues at max lvl)

[lilac stag]

sorry. Can’t fix stupid here.

[dense jasper]

he was bored

[brisk onyx]

[formal helm]

one was when I joined a guild on another realm

so i couldn't be arsed to fork over for transfer

one was from remix

another one was from new remix

and idk what the fuck is up with the rest tbh

[lilac stag]

[brisk onyx]

I have 4 it is easy

[formal helm]

[lilac stag]

between prepatch mdi, leveling dps and 5 rogues at max level my brain just exploded.

[formal helm]

yeah?

you're getting weak scath

it's jover.

[lilac stag]

I’m not the one playing prepatch

well 2 boss kills to mount farm. Hahah

[brisk onyx]

Because I participate in some M dummy mount farm activities every week and earn a lot of golds lol

[formal helm]

same

I just got a house and did some shit with it with guildies

gave up on it soon-ish tho

expensive and shit system imo

[brisk onyx]

one mount farm can earn me around 700k, and 4 rogue can earn me 3 million per week.

[tribal blade]

i've been working on housing xp

been obtaining profession decor without breaking the bank

[dense jasper]

brothers. why is shadow techniques broken on live? am i the only one not getting massive CP refunds?

[hazy breach]

Because the refunds are in the apex talents

Which you don't have

[tribal blade]

partly why prepatch sub feels so unfinished

[outer cloak]

Is there an actual bug fix yesterday or are my friends rage baiting me

[dense jasper]

thank you for filling in my ignornace

i was so confused

[tribal blade]

yeah they fixed coup apex bug

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[outer cloak]

Ty

[hazy breach]

Well they said they did. But it was only pushed to live so we don't know yet

[tribal blade]

lol typical

hopefully it's not another situation of they did it but not really

[polar wharf]

Guys, can you somehow put an alert when coup the grace is procced in cdm?

[tribal blade]

not currently no

tracking coup is kinda cringe on cdm

[polar wharf]

Can you add an alert in some other addon?

[tribal blade]

not sure tbh

[polar wharf]

Okies thanks for the replies

[dense jasper]

track procs in CDM and when you get to 4 send a Coupe

[tribal blade]

someone who's messed around with more addons can prob tell you

[iron spear]

do you want track Coup for the aoe rota? so you can weave Coup inbetween Black Poweder?

[polar wharf]

Yep im doing that. Was just wondering if there was a way to add an alert when coup itself gets up

[tribal blade]

this evis icon will show when coup has procced

[polar wharf]

Yep for that reason exactly

[iron spear]

You can just Macro them togehter

[tribal blade]

tracked buffs will only show EB stacks

not sure why it shows coup icon there

[mighty citrus]

what is the eye symbol on your sectec? the sound i know

[tribal blade]

maybe they'll add the coup functionality to it later

[iron spear]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/addons-macro-ui-imports#macros-macros-combining-abilities

Here:
#showtooltip
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[tribal blade]

visual alert

marching ants

[mighty citrus]

is this out of the box?

or another addon?

[tribal blade]

nah it's baseline

[polar wharf]

Oh thats smart, im going to use that for sure. Thanks a bunch

[mighty citrus]

i may be blind then 😄

[tribal blade]

you can swap the type

[mighty citrus]

i will test ty

[tribal blade]

not being able to set an alert to the evis/coup icon is frustrating

i suspect there's some funky shit with coup basically being evis

and they had to do some janky stuff to make it work

[lilac stag]

That’s about best you can do with tracking it. You could do a bar and change the 4th bar color to be different like sht.

[fallow nimbus]

What's the purple bar?

[steel zinc]

Your using the first dance tracker btw?

[lilac stag]

Sht stacks

since 5 is the magic number

[dense jasper]

lemme delete then

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq message

[brisk onyx]

what addon do you change the number's color?

[lilac stag]

arc

[brisk onyx]

[lilac stag]

I haven’t looked at updates in the last 10 days. Possible to do it with icons but idk until I look at it. I’m honestly not hyper concerned about coup

[fallow nimbus]

Are the bars also arc ui?

[lilac stag]

Dance, Blades & ShT bars are arc. CP/Energy is sensei

[haughty mural]

It is so beautiful

[lilac stag]

i need more free time for the other two and SV

[dense jasper]

coup has been consistently only like 4% of of damage on beta and i've been focused on sending when available

[lilac stag]

I mean you can just macro it for aoe

[fallow nimbus]

That striking in dance when at 5 sht stacks sounds annoying but probably the most skill expression we have now

[lilac stag]

We want more stuff to pay attention to… not like that.

[dense jasper]

if you mod your SQW properly that will also give you more opporturnuty for skill expression with procs....

.4 milliseconds is super whack

[lilac stag]

way worse things to track, like idk deathstalkers mark

[hazy breach]

Procs?

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[dense jasper]

oh my b i forgot ShT got deleted from the game

[hazy breach]

It was not

[dense jasper]

/sarcasm

that's why i'm recommending an SQW adjustment

i find it helpful to respond to ShT procs when my SQW is lower

[hazy breach]

Respond in what way

Theres nothing to respond to

[fallow nimbus]

400ms is 0.4 secs

[dense jasper]

whether i'm sending a spender or a builder

[lilac stag]

My guy making things way more complex than ever needed

[fallow nimbus]

With 400ms you can queue bs and override it with storm easily

[dense jasper]

we are quite literally in the "overly complex" discord channel

[lilac stag]

I feel like we’re headed to an envenom pooling arc at this rate

[haughty mural]

Feel you

[lilac stag]

fka krangled cd educator channel

[fallow nimbus]

How big is the chance that we see a fix so a strike at max cp doesn't trigger any apex related stuff

[lilac stag]

it’s made it this long. Unless we’re busted I’d expect it to stay

[dense jasper]

random Q. are you the scath from Revival?

[fallow nimbus]

It's a bit against their "make it easier and intuitive"

[lilac stag]

stalking isn’t a random Q

[lilac stag]

It would fit into their straight forward with room for player expression or however ion stated it

[haughty mural]

With how surprisingly much stuff they fixed lately, I’d would not count it out

[lilac stag]

maybe they though they fixed it but until then, like aoe blind, we ride

[haughty mural]

But personally I don’t think they will

[fallow nimbus]

It has everything we actively tried to avoid in the past, wasting cp

[dense jasper]

you're 100% right it wasnt random. we're discussing min/max plays for this spec, and i was just making sure i was interacting with the person who i thought i was in regards to performance

[haughty mural]

Well that’s a truth bomb

[tulip light]

How much % gain is it even to do the whole strike at max cp thing?

[dense jasper]

becuase its much more nuanced than an "envenom pooling

[hazy breach]

Like 1.5%

[dense jasper]

question

[lilac stag]

It’s not. Idk how expansion back it is already where big brains swore pooling for envenom was huge deal in spite of every bit of math saying it’s not.

but if you feel better about it and your gameplay go for it

If it makes it more fun for you, I’m here for it.

[fallow nimbus]

I wish we had more options for the buff visuals like trigger at specific stacks

[lilac stag]

You mean the icon in cdm or?

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

Marching ants

[lilac stag]

yeah that’s on bliz. The bars can be “adjusted” better

[dense jasper]

i dont feel better for it tbh. i just hopped in here being highly analytical and ran it all the way down. i'm less than 100% knowledgeable and totally fine to be proven wrong.

[fallow nimbus]

The default bars?

[lilac stag]

Of course not.

[lilac stag]

It’s all just discussion. This is a place for education.

[dense jasper]

https://giphy.com/gifs/peanut-butter-pirate-creepy-ChHnrQSnrTquEafqNc

[lilac stag]

@fallow nimbus if you loo at the ui pick i posted. Sht is at 14 stacks. I have the bar set to show 5 stacks and the 5th stack to color change.

You can do what with any trackable buff that uses stacks in arc

Since I can’t see for shit with my blindness I want as little taking up real estate and this made more sense for me visually.

vs a small icon counting up to 14 when I only give a hoot about 5

visual impairment gaming and the destruction of WAs has been fun hahahah

[misty compass]

So, after new balance changes Trickster is better than DS?

[hazy breach]

Trickster has been better at pretty much every point at 90

[misty compass]

Ty

[tribal blade]

as it should be

it's been great having basically 1 hero tree all this time

[fast dome]

So I'm seeing tier lists rank sub as the easiest rogue spec to play - I haven't really tried outlaw past messing with it for a bit while I was levelling my rogue. Is it really that much harder?

[lilac stag]

outlaw is reactionary. Sub is still a bit of CD planning. Assa is the easiest of the 3

what you find comfy or easy or fun will vary to the YouTuber who spent 5 minutes on a spec not choosing hero talents and saying it’s 2 buttons.

glhf

[vale pine]

you can reduce every spec like this

[maiden oar]

new enhance is maybe an exception

i really like totemic

fun guy

[lethal gate]

this is very relevant to my interests

[fast dome]

Are you telling I can't blindly trust random youtubers?!

😿

but fr, im new to the game as it is (havent played since wotlk) so I'm not in a position to test every spec myself, so I gotta listen to someone's advice somehow

[tribal blade]

baseline sub is definitely not hard to play

[maiden oar]

if you know what kind of general gameplay aspects you like in other games (or in wotlk) it can help a ton picking a spec

[tribal blade]

compared to before

[maiden oar]

this was my first expac as a ffxiv refugee and i settled on rogue bc i knew what i liked in that game + lost ark

[fast dome]

I prefer a more... predictable? style of play? So not constantly reacting to random procs

[maiden oar]

ok sub and sin are like that

[tribal blade]

definitely not outlaw

[maiden oar]

sub you have to react to sht on autos but its normalized

[fast dome]

I am fine with knowing what I need to do, but adding in more fast-twitch reactions on top of already having to track boss mechanics would be unpleasant for me.

[maiden oar]

and you get more sht from other sources now

[fast dome]

Ok cool, so sub or assa then. ty!

[maiden oar]

that is consistent

[tribal blade]

i think sin would be the most consistent spec in ST

but you do have 1 proc to react to if you play blindside

[fast dome]

Yeah? Alright ill check it out next. I did some T11 delves as Sub last night and it was pretty solid

but brann is an idiot

[tribal blade]

sub has refunds which act like sort of procs

[fast dome]

doesnt move bosses out of puddles of poop

[tribal blade]

the sin proc is not much to react to because you kinda just play as usual once it procs

[fast dome]

ah okay. makes sense

[maiden oar]

you could also try dh

i think both dps specs for dh dont have very reactive gameplay

you get a variable amt of fury from autos on havoc but theres no class without any variance whatsoever

[haughty mural]

If you enjoyed mut envenom sin in wotlk, it might be the spec for you again

[maiden oar]

do you react to it

does it not replace mutilate anymore

i genuinely have never tracked it for all of tww

but maybe im noob

[fast dome]

that is I believe what I actually played. yeah. I vaguely recall my rogue being VERY constant in boss fights. I did my thing, on repeat, and just had to worry about moving and mechanics

[maiden oar]

yea id recommend dagger rogue or dps dh for sure then

i like ww and enhance too but they have some reactiveness to them

[tribal blade]

yeah i think it does but i'm not sure, i barely tested sin the other day after setting it up

i only tested aoe i should say

not ST

but it should still function the same way, so it's not a "real" proc

[maiden oar]

i think in tww ud wanna track it if u are playing around sanguine

but i was a raid guy so i never did hehe

[tribal blade]

unless you need to adjust pressing it vs FoK in like 2-3 target

[maiden oar]

in blood build tracking it can make sense

[fast dome]

ty for the advice

[maiden oar]

np

[tribal blade]

there was the situation where you wanted to press blindside over FoK on.. i think it was 3 or less targets with spatter up because when you were talented into vicious venoms the nature part spattered quite hard

i might have the details of that wrong

[maiden oar]

ok i believe you

i dont know bc i only played sin in lou hehe

[tribal blade]

but this is old stuff so it might be diff now

[maiden oar]

and i was just spamming with ttk

[tribal blade]

haha same here

[maiden oar]

twist knife so funny talent

[tribal blade]

that was some buggy shit too

oh i had that slightly wrong, you wanted to press mutilate over FoK

and that meant blindside procs along with it

[maiden oar]

[tribal blade]

but yeah on pure ST blindside you don't really need to play around i think

[lilac stag]

If you’re interested in Rogue, Darlan does a decent job of making it approachable.

Marcelion (sp) and Flame do a good bit of research on their videos and actually reach out to people in class discords.

Everything got simpler across the board. A lot will come down to what you think you’ll enjoy and just jumping into it.

[maiden oar]

also if a guy named shindig makes video guides for midnight those are very good

i owe everything to shindig video guide

[lilac stag]

we meme a bit in here, but each of the rogues play slightly differently.

[maiden oar]

helped me out a ton as a noob

[lilac stag]

His and Whispyr’s aren’t exactly new to wow target

[maiden oar]

his break it down very well imo

[lilac stag]

Dalaran and M&F are great for getting back into the game

[maiden oar]

but i had other mmo exp hehe

[tribal blade]

sindig is interesting because he's good and he's also not jaded like most people on games

so he's very positive

[lilac stag]

Yup. If you like rogue and want to go that route def look to improve with his stuff

[fast dome]

Okay I will check them out. Thank you.

[maiden oar]

i just like how his videos tell u why ur doing what ur doing and sequence information in an order that lets u build an understanding w/ no prior info

[lilac stag]

Don’t be afraid to ask I’m here either

[maiden oar]

but theyre long

[tribal blade]

the only negativity i've seen from him is he's hard on himself

[maiden oar]

did u see the max tie rlist

[lilac stag]

this server is meant to help all skill levels

[tribal blade]

but that's what makes him improve

[maiden oar]

so negative guy

[tribal blade]

OH SHIT i forgot

to watch the 2nd part

does max know anything about sub now

[maiden oar]

[tribal blade]

or is it "i don't know what any of this is"

[lilac stag]

Has he ever?

[tribal blade]

when it comes to sub

[lilac stag]

[tribal blade]

NO

[lilac stag]

he’ll concuss himself playing hockey and say outlaw is best thing ever for raid

[maiden oar]

yea being hard on yourself goes crazy

[tribal blade]

yeah he was super hard on his performance on dimmy

because he said he died too much

[lilac stag]

that was a rough fight

[tribal blade]

partly was his step macro for P1 was on a bad bind

but it was too late in prog to swap the bind

[tribal blade]

it was!~

[lilac stag]

idk I had to swap my charge bind 1/2 way in

[austere spear]

step macro? mouseover?

[maiden oar]

i think dimmy on melee was comfy

[tribal blade]

nah you would have a step bind to the dk on your side

[maiden oar]

unnerfed nexus king was ww3

[tribal blade]

to negate the knock

[grand wyvern]

stepping an ally to cancel knock

[tribal blade]

because dks never get knocked

unless they're asleep

[austere spear]

truee i just stepped dimmy then went to my side

but i didnt prog him

[tribal blade]

was funny if the dk on my side did die, i'd just swap target to our BDK like 1-2 seconds before the knock went out

[maiden oar]

can step dh bc glide or honestly any guy if you time it right and start on top of them