subtlety

[alpine wraith]

no you wait for sec tech

dance has 2 charges it can wait

[quick swan]

Just at the ltieral bottom of the meters when waiting lol

[haughty mural]

its usually not like you wait a minute

[quick swan]

Well yeah but Im seeing like 10-15 seconds of desync

Unless you just sit on capped dances idk

[alpine wraith]

that does not make much sense tho

unless you are running very low haste and messing up here and there

[quick swan]

Prob, first time on it and I was kinda winging it. Used to the old version, also didnt optimize my gear

Few factors I guess

[tribal blade]

immediate PTSD from losing keys trying to skip packs in DHT

nothing better than watching an imp just start casually bouncing towards a trash pack during shroud and give nearby mobs a big hug

[tribal blade]

hey question how do you figure out how much potent powder is increasing BP by

is it the actual amount of stat or the % of the stat

say i have 168 mastery then it's increasing BP by 50.4?

[hazy breach]

%

So 100% mastery is 30% more damage

[tribal blade]

ok cool tyvm

also it's kinda funny that it has "when it spends 5 or more combo points" attached to it

seems like they just wanted to make the tooltip longer

because that 2nd part is pointless

unless they were trying to hand hold people into understanding sub doesn't want to send finishers at low CP

[alpine wraith]

i think it is because they repurposed some of the new DN code for it

[tribal blade]

oh my god that's kinda hilarious if they did

[alpine wraith]

well it works

or maybe they just made a totally new thing

only they know

[tribal blade]

we do take the no bug situation as a win

[alpine wraith]

i do expect some funny situations from people not knowing how haste works with sub

or why is it not SUPER good anymore kinda

as more bugfixes come

[hollow spear]

Since the extra gcd already works via spreadsheet, people not knowing will probably be in the majority anyway

[alpine wraith]

extra gcd with extra leewat

imo 0.2 might be too litle

0.4 is safer

[vale pine]

the sim considers a delay for the first cast in dance if its strike

[fleet acorn]

@vale pine How much dps difference as deathstalker is not using dance + Shuriken Storm macro and Play it like trickster with dance + st macro

[tribal blade]

i'll definitely stat on the safer side

[vale pine]

you typically want to start dance with low combo points as deathstalker

so you would either use dance + strike as macro or dance + storm

using dance + strike as macro is perfectly fine, if you make sure to hit the button twice fast enough

[tribal blade]

i can't use the dance+strike macro anymore since they broke it

every time it doesn't instantly fire the strike i get mega tilted

[vale pine]

to be fair

i tested in game, and with my haste values currently

i don't lose casts from not using macros

which means, the macro use is, to a degree, dependent on your haste

[tribal blade]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3fYiLXVfPa4 @keen dome

[vale pine]

also the macro is kinda easy mode if you are a new player

macro secret + dance + blades

use the macro on finishing combo points

[tribal blade]

i played with that macro for a bit but opted to seperate blades from dance+sectec

to give a bit more agency

[vale pine]

i have blades as modifier

so if i press a modifier, it won't use blades

(shift is what i typically use)

[tribal blade]

ooo gotcha

[vale pine]

the irony is, i have enough empty keybinds now to use it manually

so its just out of lazyness

[alpine wraith]

ehehje

[tribal blade]

need to keep those empty binds for when they add more abilities

[vale pine]

i would prefere goremaws to be removed rather than buffed

[runic sinew]

why deathstalker wanna start dance with shuriken storm?

[vale pine]

deathstalker in general likes to start with dance on lower combo points

not entirely sure why, but it seems better in simulations

[fleet acorn]

I was only asking cause sometimes I Hit the macro and it will Not do the shuriken storm somehow
And I’m alrdy pressing secret technique with Lust and it’s Not going off wasting 3 sec to do a Strike into secret cause I didnt notice

[tribal blade]

unlikely but maybe you didn't have enough energy to storm

try mashing the macro next time till it goes off

[celest night]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal vortex]

@vale pine do you have an idea of which spec is the best now for beta and prepatch? Probably we will try an event with 4-8 groups and who will push the higher and Id like to play the one with the most dmg

I know it's a bit random just asking , mainly I play assa but I feel like sub is better now?

[haughty mural]

maybe gcd ?

[lilac stag]

Eleem was saying go for 700 haste and to use the .4 as more of the base instead of cutting it close with the .2

[lilac stag]

you’re hitting the macro mid / late gcd. Dance is firing off since it’s off the GCD but Storm will not until the previous gcd has finished.

[vale pine]

pre patch, does not matter.
beta i am not sure, but subtlety did not get all nerfs on beta atm

[tribal vortex]

yeah pre patch does not matter only asking if you know which would be the better as I think this will be done on pre patch servers

[plush trout]

from what shindigg said, prob deathstalker sub/ outlaw fatebound will be the way to go

assa got too nerfed on caustic to have any impact on m+

also energy regen feels bad

[tribal vortex]

I did some keys like 10 days ago and energy was ok in big pulls, also doing like 20's you can pull really big so energy is very much ok if you have more than 7-8 mobs

[swift tinsel]

pretty sure sin doesn't get extra energy from VW past 5 targets

[tribal vortex]

You have dashing scoundrel

[swift tinsel]

ye that plus seal fate

so just more cp per fok/ct

also trickster sub > deathstalker sub generally

[prime raft]

we got nerfed agian? looks like ima be sticking with TBC and skip midnight

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker sub

[haughty mural]

[swift tinsel]

went back and listened to the stream and it was a oofer

[hazy breach]

Fwiw the bug fixes they've done outweigh the nerfs

[swift tinsel]

hating on trickster automatic L

[hazy breach]

I love playing deathstalker and cancelauring my apex talent on darkest night everytime in 3+ targets

[swift tinsel]

peak gameplay intuitive fun

[hazy breach]

Tbf it's probably 4/5 targets now with the bugfix,but still

[swift tinsel]

just a stinky system all around

yay for another xpac

[austere spear]

Whats the dps loss if we dont cancel?

[plush trout]

DS sub should have been the way to go from the beginning, it just fits the class fantasy

[hazy breach]

Depends on target count, but like 3-4% on high counts

[lilac stag]

We add extra buttons by introducing cancleaura macros. We are sub.

[swift tinsel]

tHrEe buTtOn SpEC

[hazy breach]

Thematically yes, but unfortunately the gameplay has been ass

[plush trout]

yep that s true

[austere spear]

Id rather have old sub back then have to cancelaura

[hazy breach]

Old deathstalker cancelaurad darkest night itself on aoe

[slate marlin]

if old sub is tww version i agree

[south pelican]

Surely they do one more pass on sub

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/vibe-vibing-marshall-barney-stinson-gif-21706451

[hazy breach]

But they made it so you can't cancelaura darkest night

[swift tinsel]

just make dn cleave til they redo the whole tree

[plush trout]

NF from trick was to much fun, u could decimate a target while destroying another 7

[north schooner]

imagine if they prune more buttons, but add more garbage buffs that you have to /cancelaura conditionally

[swift tinsel]

also make the priority of which ones you cancel based on the phases of the moon + how Ion is feeling that day

[north schooner]

moon phases are easy, ion's mood will be tricky

[plush trout]

so basically they pruned sub for the com just make their life hard by adding macros for a specific situation, at this point just leave sub hard and only buff the dmg xD

[swift tinsel]

we can throw in Milankovitch Cyclicity in there too for funsies

[full bobcat]

why is that, @hazy breach?

[swift tinsel]

better to apex black powder

in aoe

[hazy breach]

Darkest night buffs eviscerate only, and casting an eviscerate instead of black powder in aoe is a large loss.

This newly added talent is the reason why its even worth using darkest night to begin with

And the apex talent only buffs the initial hit of the spell (ie the eviscerate or the BP) and not these mass casualty hits

And since almost all of the value of the darkest night is in mass casualty rather than the hit itself

Buffing the hit is pointless

When you could instead buff your next BP

[full bobcat]

but how would you reapply the mark if using eviscerate has no value in AoE? or only has no value when we got apex + darkest night, then the next hit is evis? I'm a bit lost here, sry

[hazy breach]

Strike

[rustic raven]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[full bobcat]

oh so you can ignore darkest night and then use strike to apply the mark?

[hazy breach]

Thats what you did all throughout tww yes

But now with mass casualty you dont

(you cannot lower the mark below 3 when darkest night is active)

[finite crow]

and mc doesnt proc then ye?

[hazy breach]

Correct

[finite crow]

so you actually want to evis it

?

[hazy breach]

But also deathstalker is like -15% behind trickster in aoe

[hazy breach]

Yes

[graceful rock]

Is !bugs updated?

[hazy breach]

yes

[graceful rock]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[finite crow]

i mean rogue is just ass rn

time to gear up my augmentation xD

[hazy breach]

Sub is doing well in keys

[ionic flint]

i checked the pins but is there somewhere maybe a diff section i can find a place for prelim best in slot trinkets?

[coarse dew]

Rather cancel it in aoe you mean

[hazy breach]

Cancel apex, not darkest night

(because you cant cancel darkest night)

[full bobcat]

@hazy breach is there a readme or even a draft where I can read more about this cancel apex in depth and why is it?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq

[coarse dew]

Right thanks

[hazy breach]

But again, none of this really matters as well just play trickster instead

[slate marlin]

you mean bis gear from m0 for heroic week raid?

[ionic flint]

yes but actully just super specifically best two trinkets

[slate marlin]

i doubt anyone is running sims for that

[south pelican]

Does anyone have a sim sheet of the races? I CANNOT be a mechagnome

[ionic flint]

thank you thats what i thought

[runic sinew]

I'm just waiting for Secret techiniques Apex clones fix

[graceful rock]

Vulpera, bag of tricks procs extra shadow techniques

[slate marlin]

that seems like an insane min max for extremely little value tho

[alpine wraith]

right now the puzzle box and another on use seem decent

there is also a crit one but it is undertuned maybe they buff itr

[hazy breach]

They currently seem fairly untuned, but the gaze of the alnseer is definitely one of them

[alpine wraith]

yep

[hazy breach]

The other one seems kinda whatever

Maybe haste on-use, maybe puzzlebox, maybe crit on-use, maybe passives'

[graceful rock]

Big trust in the plume rn

Save us from puzzle box jail

[alpine wraith]

puzzle box might be a bit unlikely unless we do some silly things and just run 2 on uses

one for blades and another one in between

then the other on blades

etc

the haste on use seemed so good but now that so many apex and finisher things are being fixed and mastery is coming in strong

and more sht

maybe we just skip

[shell willow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shell willow]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[glad bough]

how do i smooth out the portion of our rotation where i feel like i am spending 10+ seconds just for 1 builder 1 spender or is that just the nature of it

[warm marlin]

make sure to be auto attacking since it gives energy and otherwise that's just the way it is

you dont have energy outside dance so you play very slow

[swift tinsel]

are there jeweler's settings in midnight to add sockets?

[hazy breach]

nop

[swift tinsel]

hmge

less gold for me then as a jc lol

[hazy breach]

All jewelry come with a socket attached

But the vault sockets remain for other slots

The last boss ring that is 100% haste also has 2 sockets

[swift tinsel]

was looking at some in top gear and must have nabbed the wrong version

ye saw the neck has 2 also

abyssal hymn

tier legs or gloves off-piece?

[lilac stag]

You can socket the PVP stuff still no?

I didn’t look to see if those sockets were still avail

[alpine wraith]

think those come with sockets on jewelry too

[swift tinsel]

there's a Galactic Jeweler's Setting

[alpine wraith]

then the normal things to socket are wrist belt head

[swift tinsel]

for midnight pvp

[alpine wraith]

yep

dont steal my video idea btw of telling people to craft full haste engi wrist

[swift tinsel]

lmao I'm no youtuber

[alpine wraith]

with that and tier + 1 ring we get close to 700

nah it was a joke

[swift tinsel]

next thing you know I'm on a max stream giving hot takes

[alpine wraith]

i havent watched any max stream rogue parts

[swift tinsel]

saying trickster is trash

[alpine wraith]

for a while

rofl who was that

[swift tinsel]

I watched just the rogue one after work last night

uhh shidigg I think

[alpine wraith]

ah he is more of an overall guy i think

[swift tinsel]

ye he went full vibes ig

[alpine wraith]

i mean for rogue you have kinda me and whisp everyone else is just doing everything at once kinda to get max coverage

[swift tinsel]

and isn't a big fan of rogue in midnight from the sound of it

[alpine wraith]

not a bad strat but things can fall

in going into misinformation angle

[swift tinsel]

yeah I don't really listen to anyone I don't see talking here when it comes to content creation lol

after spending 0.1 seconds on the forum I know there's plenty of people who say dumb things

[steel zinc]

So we gotta pvp S1?

[alpine wraith]

there was a time i went to diff videos and left comments but

[steel zinc]

Or how do we get sockets?

[alpine wraith]

pvp is for kinda week 1 stuff

you get conquest wrists and socket them

or crafted ones

maybe get the pvp badge

[lilac stag]

Do the bracers require engineering?

[alpine wraith]

the crafted ones yea the normal pvp ones no

you just get the crafted ones kinda for free because remember the seasonal quests

[lilac stag]

Guess we drop enchanting for engineering.

[alpine wraith]

that give x things to craft

nah engi is not a big win just makes other gearing a bit easier

[lilac stag]

well I like having Jeeves. Hahah

[alpine wraith]

oh yea im perma engi/lw

[lilac stag]

I miss Jeeves on my rogue

[hazy breach]

From vault as usual

[lilac stag]

I’ll leave other alchemy if flasks are still extended

[alpine wraith]

may be able to use crafted engi helmet too but idk what embellish are good

dont think there is a head specific one

[keen dome]

Eng/JC for life..

Eng is just too useful

[vale pine]

eng/enchanting for me

[keen dome]

JC makes me a lot of gold every expansion and it's useful for maknig 3 slots myself

If I was to ever swap I'd go BS/JC I think

[swift tinsel]

min/JC

then an army of alts for everything else lol

two alch alts, two herbs, 2 bs, one scribe, one ench

2 0.5 engineers

[torn tide]

what do u really use for eng?

[shell willow]

lol rocket boots

[keen dome]

Teleports, mailbox, jeeves

[torn tide]

cuz i think i might be using it wrongly but all i used it for back then was the jumper cables and the repair robot lol

[keen dome]

Being able to teleport to any expansion is extremely useful for doing collectionism

[torn tide]

oh wtf

i might needa research on thoe

also mailbox sounds nice

[keen dome]

Wormhole Generators

Mailbox doesn't share a cooldown with the other set of toys so I have two which is useful.

And then Jeeves is just always useful

You can also make mono stat helms / bracers which can be useful but tend to be quite niche. Guns are always useful but very slow money. The rest is pretty useless. It's all for the QoL more than anything else if you touch a ton of content.

LW or BS is just vastly more useful and profitable in comparison

[vale pine]

i have too many engineering stuff to ever unlearn

[keen dome]

Reeves is also really useful, being able to summon a repair hammer every 30 minutes.

Jeeves main use is accessing a bank anywhere, though, who is also a vendor.

[keen dome]

Also this hahaha

[vale pine]

wormhole, mailbox, jeeves, reeves, blingtron, etc...

[exotic steeple]

man im so excited to play rogue this tier

[alpine wraith]

im happy that we can stack mastery again

[keen dome]

Hell yeah buddy.

Rogue rogue rogue

[alpine wraith]

after the haste scare

[exotic steeple]

i love sub being so accessible now i couldnt handle it earlier

[alpine wraith]

it was not super hard before but complicated

so if you were stuck anywhere in the flow

you did get punished quite heavily

[exotic steeple]

i just couldnt get my head around it

[alpine wraith]

dont worry it was quite prevalent

[exotic steeple]

and if sub sucks i can still go back to assa

[alpine wraith]

and even if you know what to do diff fights had diff timings to be aware of

[exotic steeple]

the most important thing for me was being able to track cds and focus on the encounter

on sub i felt like i could only do one of those two

[swift tinsel]

are trinkets fully implemented in mimiron/simc for midnight?

before I go full-in on gear sims

[alpine wraith]

mandate might be surprisingly good too

you get a lil haste then some crit

and has mainstat

sadly 2 mins

but eh

[swift tinsel]

ye was gonna look at all the passives, 1.5 and 2mins

got the rest of it pretty well sorted out

[alpine wraith]

i actually havent looked well at fight timings

we might want some plethora of trinks in bag

[swift tinsel]

yeah I tend to just get them from luck lol

[alpine wraith]

the best hope is no combo of 2 2 min trinks works well

[exotic steeple]

is it ever worth to hold sd and sq for a trinket thats on like 10 sec cd?

[alpine wraith]

depends on what comes after

[hazy breach]

I mean you'd use your stat trinkets with blades

Any non-stat trinket you can use whenever

[exotic steeple]

and blades with sd and sq always

got it

[torn tide]

thankyou

[fossil forge]

yo lads

we play trickster or ds

[alpine wraith]

trickster mainly

but some people do like to suffer so you can try DS

[alpine wraith]

jus to appreaciate trickster more

[fossil forge]

i will indeed not apply my mark on adds

[alpine wraith]

blizz is doing us a favour

[fossil forge]

wtf hax

[alpine wraith]

by making singular not work with sec tech and keeping DN and mass casualty krangled

so we dont play DS for prio

ever

[fossil forge]

i open wowlogs everryone on ds

sus

[lilac stag]

BS jus goes on an alt

[fossil forge]

is this normal

[alpine wraith]

we dont have apex yety

[fossil forge]

aight

[alpine wraith]

and i though you meant on midnight rn DS and trickster are almost sameish

you can check fuu sims

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fossil forge]

thanks brah

🫡

[keen dome]

[fossil forge]

holy i do no damage

[astral axle]

I was dinking around with mimiron and generally found sims to be pretty haste thirsty. like 800 or so. i guess this is the extra globals plus sht from melee swings?

[alpine wraith]

yea it is likely we gear around 700 haste or so

new sht things etc give us a lot of extra cp

[astral axle]

good lord lmao

a lot is an understatement

that kinda owns just to see it on a graph

[alpine wraith]

yea after apex fix with sec tech etc it is big

[warm marlin]

even if I disagree with him on the enjoyability of some things guy is a very good source of info for all 3 rogue specs

shindig is good too, one of the very few i wouldn't mind having up there

[alpine wraith]

yea likely honest mistake

[warm marlin]

there aren't many who are both goats and truly enjoy all 3 rogue specs

[maiden oar]

get charrend on there i want max to know about puzzle box

[astral axle]

we stan charrend

[maiden oar]

i want max to know about striking at full cp

[astral axle]

ryldd do you ever stream?

[warm marlin]

no

i briefly looked into it in this season but i was having packet loss issues at new apartment and it wasnt helping

maybe midnight s1

[maiden oar]

i want max to know about exact haste tiering

[warm marlin]

I really love warcraftrecorder and need to find out how to keep my vods for that and stream at same time as well

[maiden oar]

it just works i think

i get both

[warm marlin]

i must have screwed up setup somehow because i was getting a black screen on one of them always

it wouldn't output to both at same time

[maiden oar]

odd

[warm marlin]

something about game hooks supposedly idk

need to fix

[maiden oar]

i hear some people say it doesnt work but i am pretty sure i can do it still

[astral axle]

WCR has this weird thing for me where like... all the sound from my game gets recorded all krangled

[maiden oar]

oh i just get rid of the sound from wcr

[astral axle]

I've made sure my outputs are the same as obs and stuff, which works fine for streaming/recording

[maiden oar]

not important i think

[astral axle]

but still it is like giga fried

[warm marlin]

idk it's always worked perfect for me. only gets game sound too which is nice

[hazy breach]

Need different codex

Theres 2 options, just swap to the other one

[warm marlin]

[plush roost]

ur a silly goose

[warm marlin]

also ngl streaming makes me feel a bit self conscious

idk gonna int cuz now somebodys watching u know

[maiden oar]

[plush roost]

Bro my favorite part is inting and having people see it

so i cant bullshit myself

lowkey

[maiden oar]

yeah i think its good to learn to play under that kind of pressure

sometimes

[astral axle]

bro i played a key this last week on my fury warrior on a zorthas stream and bro i was in defensive stance for like 60% of the key or someshit

https://tenor.com/view/crashout-skeleteon-skeleton-meme-skeleteton-crashout-screaming-gif-2819917983570648755

didn't even realize it

[warm marlin]

i dont mind the pressure it's just different feeling like somebody's actively watching your screen

i stream other games to the homies all the time so its not really different but

[maiden oar]

ah i see

[warm marlin]

i'll try to stream prog this tier if internet does not explode again

[maiden oar]

[graceful rock]

I usually just stream and slam a shadowplay when needed

[warm marlin]

warcraftrecorder is an absolutely brazy tool for prog

very op

[maiden oar]

its really good

i wanna get vods at least bc i think im morally obligated to make 1 single youtube video about how to get into wow as a ffxiv refugee

but i dont want to make a video after that

im good!

[keen dome]

That's a cool video idea

[graceful rock]

I was gonna make a video of trying to learn a class naturally and see what happens but I loaded in level 10 and alt-f4’d the idea

[maiden oar]

trying to drag one of my old xiv friends into wow and there is so much to adjust to

and for me there was a ton to unlearn

[warm marlin]

i have a 50 minute unfinished sub guide somewhere from early tww3 was gonna actually update it ahead of midnight s1 and upload and then they literally exploded everything

[alpine wraith]

yea doing the full guides for sub is funny

last one was almost 40 mins

i expect the midnight one to be half of that

[warm marlin]

I was midway through "intermediate" at 50 minutes, I had an organization style I liked and was inspired by the 2 hour whispyr video

turns out theres a lot to talk about when u start from 0

not anymore ofc

[vale pine]

it depends

then more details or yapping you add, then longer an explenation

but its easier to write a lot or talk a lot, than the opposite

[graceful rock]

I wanna make guides but I’d really wanna make more raid fight/dungeon guides AS a rogue. But not really sure if it’s valuable making when I’m clearing like world 200

I was ready to merc for a guild as arcane and forgy made a video going over a kill as arcane and thought it was cool

[hollow spear]

I'd watch (and backseat game)

[maiden oar]

wouldve been valuable to me when i was starting out

[soft summit]

What you make to sell as an engineer?

[keen dome]

I'd stream my pugs but lol

[alpine wraith]

people dont really watch raid or dungeon guides that much

i did many and they were the most unpopular

for sub in particular maybe the general ones

[scarlet heath]

I watch Liquid mythic guide about one day per season

that's about it

[keen dome]

I prefer reading my guides

[swift tinsel]

I tend to go through the dungeon journal then watch a video to see the visual component

and will watch tactyks videos for m+

[scarlet heath]

I am that kind of player who learns by doing

so I will watch it a few times to understand what to expect but then progging gives me infinitely more

[uneven scarab]

i like learning from doing the world tours with my m+ group

we all learn by doing as well

[swift tinsel]

I like going in having an idea of my job or how I can contribute/cheese

[maiden oar]

i like youtube video

[swift tinsel]

I'm a pre-planner lol

big spreadsheet energy

[maiden oar]

that goes over stuff that is more abstract than like just telling me whats on wowhead or what sims goof

or whats in the dungeon journal

[swift tinsel]

yeah if there's creative nuggets of info I'm a fan

[bleak night]

I watch other people do stuff thats irrelevant by the time I get to the boss bc im 30 ilvls higher and its been nerfed 4 times

[swift tinsel]

yeah there's that part too lol

[uneven scarab]

[maiden oar]

i think the only good usage of youtube as a medium for wow is to explain stuff that you generally figure out by actually playing the game and interacting with it

[uneven scarab]

Thats kinda the reason i freeball it ya

[maiden oar]

otherwise i can just check wowhead

or some other thing

[maiden oar]

this saves time for noobs like me bc i can learn by having someone tell it to me rather than play until i figure it out myself

[swift tinsel]

ye I like knowing about big casts before they kill me lol

[warm marlin]

a large section of my video was how to look at lorrgs/vods and prep your cds ahead of time

[swift tinsel]

in keys at least

[warm marlin]

tailored to sub

[maiden oar]

so cool

[swift tinsel]

this is actually a really good topic to cover

ngl

bc of how important it is

[maiden oar]

yeah my hypothetical xiv refugee video would spend alot of time on movement and how wows approach to the gcd / cooldowns and resources in general is different

and not like this is what a m+ dungeon is

[warm marlin]

I spreadsheet a lot more than most people im pretty sure. i have an mrt note fully prepped for all phases of a boss before our first pull with offensive/defensive cd timings that i edit after every raid night using warcraftrecorder vods to make it more accurate

very op on stuff like dimmy p1 where very very specific feint timings let it come up perfectly to cover every single mechanic

[maiden oar]

[warm marlin]

5s prefeint before the tank hit and whatnot

[swift tinsel]

I try to do something similar with Timeline Reminders

[maiden oar]

i just type it to myself and throw it on the bottom of my screen

[warm marlin]

yeah timeline reminders can do similar I just preferred mrt/kaze

[swift tinsel]

and really fine-tune since our times tend to be a little different from lorrgs sometimes

[maiden oar]

and reference w fight timer

idk why but i dont like the kaze/lr style countdown

i should get used to it

[swift tinsel]

reminds me I need to look into either a timer addon or a /timer macro

[maiden oar]

but in xiv id /echo timestamps to my chat to remember stuff

[swift tinsel]

for vod watching

[maiden oar]

so im just used to that

[maiden oar]

dmg.meter has it

[warm marlin]

if you have mrt it has a combat timer thing

idk if it still works with midnight

[swift tinsel]

very nice

[alpine wraith]

i did that too not many cared but it is cool to have

[swift tinsel]

I find it helps me a lot if I have a timer going on the screen when I go back to rewatch so I'm not trying to look at timestamps

[alpine wraith]

maybe we can redo it again

[astral axle]

I believe the function is still there but we can only work off encounter timers rather than phase info.

[maiden oar]

they send some sort of thing that isnt secret on phase change iirc

remember hearing some addon dev discussing this

[astral axle]

oh nice

[warm marlin]

yeah i assume a raw combat timer will work but like grouch said apparently you can read when phase changes happen and adapt timers

im under the impression mrt/kaze will still work in some capacity

[maiden oar]

u can still buy liquid reminders

[keen dome]

Is that when someone throws a bucket of water at you when a mechanic is about to happen

[maiden oar]

its like chinese water torture

just a drop every now and then

[inland glacier]

what are the best stats for playing as a trickster?

[plush roost]

8%

[tidal blade]

is ele bad, not sure if I can read

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1275581137397354607/1379061910946709504/catphase1.gif

[bleak night]

stop

man

[plush roost]

Looks like puzzlebox is back on the menu lads

[cosmic pebble]

thinking of playing rogue as a alt in midnight since iv never played the class. Does it bring anything else beside 3% DR for a M+ group?

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1402494842885640305/1442214716998156298/puzzlebox.gif?ex=6998a29f&is=6997511f&hm=0995113a3fec1e6fb3ff5144bfb7104a2bd8ba414e52f87619b1e2b854dc47b6&

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/fuckfuck-fuck-fuckery-gif-12977628

[plush roost]

i may just be rage baiting ngl, the ST loss is noticable with pbox

ur may be safe FOR NOW

[keen dome]

What if you just.. never have it drop. Never.. have it.. drop.

One trick to avoid it.

[bleak night]

me when i craft flaring cowl then dont see eranog ring the entire season

[astral axle]

this is the perfect tool for me copium as why my st is so low

[steel zinc]

You play then sub as 2min spec?

[uneven scarab]

okay so i wasnt the ONLY ONE

what a fucking troll ass season

Or the fucking timestrike daggers

60+ runs to get them back to back in 2 runs

[runic sinew]

god

[swift tinsel]

make a ! command for when folks come in snarking about the nerfs

[lilac stag]

You’re supposed to be playing assa

[graceful osprey]

Ahhh we have different stat prios for raid and M+, that’s lame

[hazy breach]

Not really

[alpine wraith]

mastery and crit are very strong

haste is good up to a point

likely you just change like 1 ring or something like that

[runic sinew]

on the beta, I'm trying to get so much mas/vers with 15% haste, but with craft items is so hard to get this

[alpine wraith]

you want crit not vers

[hazy breach]

Either is fine

[runic sinew]

for aoe?

[alpine wraith]

yea both work

[runic sinew]

hmm

[alpine wraith]

actually weird mind i had there

[runic sinew]

so crit/mas with cap haste works fine?

[alpine wraith]

yea

haste is not like capped just becomes a bit worse

[runic sinew]

ok, I'll try it

in this case I'm unable to get so much versa

[shrewd lantern]

Why does that matter

stats just give damage

[runic sinew]

cause I'm trying use vers/mas for m+ tests in beta

but is hard to get high stats if u focus 3+ stats

[shrewd lantern]

You really dont need to focus them

stats are just stats

[runic sinew]

hmm

[shrewd lantern]

”perfect” stats is minor at best

[trim barn]

Pretty new to spec, Does coupe only build from Backstab / Shadowstrike ? Trying with shuriken storm in AOE but not building at all

[hazy breach]

It builds with shuriken storm if you have the talent that makes shuriken storm proc it

[trim barn]

That'll be why... TY

[muted girder]

This actually makes gearing so god damn annoying.

[hazy breach]

I mean its prepatch

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/where-everything-is-made-up-whose-line-is-it-anyway-dont-matter-speech-gif-16818708

[plush roost]

Eleem low haste sub i think is really good now

[swift tinsel]

hell yeah 8-10% more stacks means more not-haste

[hazy breach]

Mr simcraft still doesnt know about the fixes, but i believe it

[shrewd lantern]

equip agi

get haste to a comfy level

realize it doesnt matter much beyond that

[swift tinsel]

you'll still want it for the dance buffer I imagine

[hazy breach]

Like 200 or something ye

[shrewd lantern]

People just like to use stats as a scapegoat

for bad play

i swear

[swift tinsel]

well yeah that's why the memes exist

[plush roost]

I played 200ish ye

[shrewd lantern]

”if i had this much more of x stat my dps would be so much higher”

[hazy breach]

My gut feeling is still 700 for ST but more like 200 for aoe

[shrewd lantern]

Literally jewelry is the easiest way

to shift a bit

[hazy breach]

I mean thats true whenever you dont have breakpoints

[plush roost]

I think low haste just

Rewuires windfury tho

[hazy breach]

Like it doesnt matter that much if you get mastery/crit/vers, but haste that doesnt grant an extra gcd is kinda whatever now with all the extra shts

[shrewd lantern]

Its not as bad as outlaw

where your spec ceased to function

below haste levels

[hazy breach]

Probably does regardless ngl

Stupid windfury

[swift tinsel]

one day they'll blacklist ShT from it like crusading strikes

(or give us windfury class talent/raid buff)

[hazy breach]

I would be surprised if we end up running puzzlebox in general, but who knows, tuning of trinkets hasnt really happened yet

[alpine wraith]

lets trust they buff the crit one

and we vibe

[hazy breach]

Or we just go passives

With improved FW the physical procs are better than ever before

[alpine wraith]

double passive might be good because normal dances are kinda decent

[hazy breach]

Like 17% better for us than other classes, instead of the 10% it used to be

[alpine wraith]

yea there were some funny times with phys trinks

[north schooner]

wax whistle my beloved

[swift tinsel]

I’m still a goon squad believer

As long as they don’t get lust scuffed

[plush roost]

Puzzlebox ST is kinda stinky ngl

Only 80k no lust no pot with skyfury mark touch

I do way more with 2 passive

[swift tinsel]

Imma channel the energy I was putting out about coup gcd and redirecting it to addressing Skyfury reliance

Realz please don’t upside down smiley react that one

Foreboding

[hazy breach]

Puzzlebox seems kinda mid if you have like 1k+ mastery already though

Shit DRs too hard

[swift tinsel]

Good keep the box in the dirt

Don’t tell my boss I said that tho

[astral axle]

oh pog they patched out the omnicd exploit

[bleak night]

[hazy breach]

Im sure there will be more

Especially during rwf

[astral axle]

very ready for a patch of cat and mouse

[astral axle]

there was a weird exploit that let people basically take a secret value and make it non secret, so basically loads of addons which would've otherwise been broken since the addon changes would work again

[bleak night]

[astral axle]

So the past like... week or so? some streamers have been using omnicd and stuff on beta

very funny

It is very interesting. Morbidly excited to see what RWF will have in store. And what will be called exploit vs inference etc

[steel zinc]

Little update on addons here the "important" filter for buffs and debuffs JUST hit live servers

this means if you have an addon that uses it you will for example as sub rogue see only shadowblades and dance

https://github.com/BigWigsMods/WoWUI/commit/474612738953cc9b8bd336d45c2d1315ff8caa87

I highly recommend unitframe addons that have these filters so either UUF or msuf. I think elvui has it too

You can track now like you used to with weak auras important player buffs and filter all garbo out

[bleak night]

[lofty lance]

can we filter buffs / debuffs on target or focus frame?

[steel zinc]

Yes but important is basically decided what blizzard thinks is important

It's a global filter essentially

But blades and dance are the two important buffs that only show if you have this filter on

[lofty lance]

oh ok so we still can't hide shit buffs like enlisted or random rep buffs

[astral axle]

big

[steel zinc]

Yes you can that's the point of important filter

[candid mural]

got baited into thinking there would be a single line about rogue...

[hazy breach]

Fwiw they have fixed bugs

Its just not in the notes

[candid mural]

thx for checking btw^^

[warm marlin]

this is so crazy btw

this is like 6 blueposts now of class bug fixes and every time they actually fix rogue stuff

they just dont write it

[hazy breach]

Ye its a bit strange

But

[candid mural]

they don't know if the fix actually works 😛

[warm marlin]

I dont really mind because they are fixing things pretty good this dev cycle imo

but i just dont get why they arent writing it

[fleet wharf]

it's just invisible bro

something something class fantasy

[swift tinsel]

Right it’s like…purposefully ignoring good PR

[lilac stag]

Clearly they don’t know how to write.

[lucid jackal]

Yeah idrk why either, but I'm not gonna complain about the fact that rogue seems to not have any bugs atm

[torn tide]

frfr just in stealth

[lofty lance]

what bugs did they fix?

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[swift tinsel]

Seeing that many apex fixes is pretty nice

Half expected most to linger until at least the .05-.1 patch

[warm marlin]

most recently ancient arts2's sht stacks not being doubled by shadowcraft

approximately 8-10% more cp total

[spice matrix]

they love to watch us doom

[swift tinsel]

Honestly sub is what’s keeping me looking forward to midnight

I know I’ll enjoy playing the spec, question is whether I’ll enjoy the content while playing the spec

[torn tide]

do yall think the apexes are gonna get nerfed hard? i saw a vid on it yesterday and it looks absolurely busted lmao

[swift tinsel]

Idk about hard but I could see lowering the amount of sht we get

Esp after the apex-shadowcraft fix

[chrome palm]

REMOVE SKYFURY thanks

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[torn tide]

a dude was just casually doing 230k-300k dps in skyreach per pull lmao

[swift tinsel]

I think that’s the more egregious part

[torn tide]

that sounds fair cuz dance=infinite sht stacks now lol

[swift tinsel]

I’ve mentioned before but I’d rather see them give us windfury/old sword specialization as a class talent over WaT or something and blacklist ShT from Skyfury, or just blacklist ShT from Skyfury and maybe remove 1 AA from the deck

There’s ways to address it that don’t crater

[subtle hazel]

What is the APM of Sub in beta

[lilac stag]

60ish

[torn tide]

skyfury as in that shaman buff?

[hazy breach]

Aka roughly the same as it was before in tww

[chrome palm]

probably somewhat less since you have less ogcds

and more macros in general

[lilac stag]

the pacing feels better, even though the apm is roughly the same.

[hazy breach]

Well the APM is the same, but less of it is ogcd ye

So you have slightly less downtime

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

Has a very strong interaction with sht

[hazy breach]

Its basically just 20% more attack speed, with a little bit of flare

[torn tide]

oh thats great for sht gain

[fleet wharf]

that's the issue

great when you have it, awful when you don't

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it’s problematically impactful lol

In raid it’s whatever bc you’ll pretty much always have a shaman but m+ is a bit more iffy

[torn tide]

would be funny for them to give us a shaman buff as a skill lmao but it would be nice

if only my main holy priest teamate would see that there are much better options

holy priest was a god 20years ago but not nearly as good now

[tropic pier]

waiting until they fix the fact you cant move death stalkers mark in 12.3 😭

[hazy breach]

Yeah that's not a bug though

It's like that on purpose

[tropic pier]

Idk about the design where i dont have a hero talent for 2 mins if a boss goes immune and does an intermission and there is no way to recover it, and i cant even vanish to get it back like the last expansion

Seems like an oversight and not intentional, its quite toxic

[lilac stag]

It’s friction. Plan your timing better.

[tropic pier]

Blizzard really dont like this type of binary pass fail causing you to lose so much damage typically

i know you can plan around it but its bad design that you need to always keep this in the back of your head

[lilac stag]

what else are you keeping in your head with the checks notes lack of thinking needed for assa and sub

[tropic pier]

Payphone

[hazy breach]

Well before you could strike to apply a new one, they deliberately removed that

[slate flume]

I have noticed this in prepatch that sometimes I just lose deathmarker in aoe situations when the mob bugs out when ssing from stealth (flying bats in Ara Kara last room, happened twice), or it just randomly disappears in aoe and cant add a new one no matter what I do (vanishing of shadow dance). Any ideas on what to do in these situations?

[hazy breach]

Relogg

Unironically

Which is why you should be playing trickster

[slate flume]

Oh wow. Welp, I will just tell the group wait for me to relog then

[fleet wharf]

doesnt mark reset once the bugged mob dies

[hazy breach]

Sometimes

Not always

[lilac stag]

Or just stop playing deathstalker

wtf are people playing deathstalker

[fleet wharf]

oof and there's no way to reapply mark in midnight?

that sounds fucking cursed

[hazy breach]

Sometimes it works after 60s when the mark has timed out

Sometimes it doesnt

[hazy breach]

Ye that is the bolded deathstalker bug from here

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[fleet wharf]

you should make a new !bigbug command

[hazy breach]

If the game thinks you have a mark on something you cannot apply a new mark no

[fleet wharf]

how the fuck is that good design? I'm so confused

[lilac stag]

Nah !bug should just send the prompter a DM telling them they’re a dolt for trying to play deathstalker

[fleet wharf]

I haven't dealt with DS much, but man, that is awful

[hazy breach]

Again,this is not a bug

They deliberately changed it to work like this

[lilac stag]

The entire design they’re trying to get is managing the mark

[fleet wharf]

but isnt mark a significant portion of DS damage?

[hazy breach]

Almost all of it

[lilac stag]

unfortunately no one actually wants to manage it

they doubled down

[fleet wharf]

so isn't the solution to auto apply mark to whatever you last attacked or something like that

not make it impossible to move it

[lilac stag]

so accept it for what it is, or just play trickster

[hazy breach]

[fleet wharf]

so it sounds like assa m+ will continue being cursed in midnight eh, but I guess I should just ask them

[hazy breach]

It works the same for assa

Fatebound is good in keys now though

[tropic pier]

Sad they nerfed spatter so much

[lilac stag]

Insert P word in 5… 4… 3…

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/good-job-gif-14121539344197617839

[uneven scarab]

just buff envenom a little more and assa is fine tbh

[lilac stag]

who needs a dot spec when you can be an envenom simulator?

[uneven scarab]

Bring back sepsis assa

garrote FAT damage

those were good times

[lilac stag]

I miss you

[uneven scarab]

I just tried to go back to my abberus logs, you need a sub to see archived logs now on wcl…..

how troll man

[lilac stag]

Yeah

[uneven scarab]

mannnn

[sick basin]

It is a dot spec, to the point you spam CT and ignore CP until all mandatory targets have dots 😛

[tribal blade]

my buddy's trying to import his char from retail onto beta but there's no option to do it

and i don't see the option either

[warm marlin]

You make a new guy on xal endgame realm

[clever ember]

so rogue family how we lookin for Midnight

[true citrus]

its joever

[lucid jackal]

Seems fine

[median hedge]

If i haven't done any manaforge, what trinket set up am i looking for? is lily good for on use?

[tribal blade]

did my first beta key in a while, 10 windrunner

is this good dps

i forgot how much better sub feels with apex

[torn tide]

damn what ilevel were u?

getting 30k dps above frost mage is absolutely insane

[shrewd lantern]

I mean this is beta so everyone is the same

[torn tide]

oh yea

[sour horizon]

youre ruining our doomer vibe

[tribal blade]

i made a lot of mistakes too

tank was doing a lot of kiting mobs around so that affects ranged way more than melee

[torn tide]

and still got that high above mage?? i didnt know they nerfed mage that hard

a frost too nonetheless

[tribal blade]

particularly he was bringing mobs from 1 area to another through passageways n shit

[tribal blade]

there's so many different factors going into it that i think it's hard to judge off 1 key

[torn tide]

fair fair

[torn tide]

bruh lol

[sour horizon]

gonna be a lot of new tanks I think

[tribal blade]

yeah i was not expecting to dunk on people that hard lol

[sour horizon]

with that new affix at 2-5

[tribal blade]

oh what's the new affix again i forgot

[sour horizon]

soemthing about highlighting the route and mobs to kill

[tribal blade]

oh yeahhhh

[sour horizon]

new tanks are w.e no biggie tbh but new healers can be rough

I dunno how theyre gonna try fix that

[tribal blade]

yeah true it can be a lot

[tribal blade]

oh i forgot i was the only person besides the tank who didn't die

[tribal blade]

healer was struggling in that key i just did

i came close to dying so many times

[sour horizon]

pally has been all over the place in beta and they still keeping messing with it, so can forgive a little, theres also peeps trying diff specs then their main too

plus new dungeons aswell to learn

I tend to give healers a break haha it can be super shit

[torn tide]

ah damn i thought holy pally wasnt so bad

[sour horizon]

its not, its up there just under resto druid

[tribal blade]

nah just likely guy is not a good player

[torn tide]

that happens

[tribal blade]

for a 10 if you're coming close to dying all the time either you're standing in everything and not pressing any defensives or the healer is bad

[tribal blade]

oh yeah for sure

not gonna flame someone for beta performance haha

[tribal blade]

actually i should specify healer is most likely not aware of dmg patterns in the key so isn't using healing cds appropriately

[narrow shadow]

I think it's okay, the top specs do like 150k overall. I believe the issue is that sub falls off a cliff once you go higher in key level

[tribal blade]

ok dope

i made mucho mucho mistakes in that key so not worried

good to be in a position going into the new expac not being OP

[narrow shadow]

Ok nevermind it was 250k for top specs not 150k

[tribal blade]

these keys are higher than 10 so they have more gear scaling too

i assume

[sour horizon]

middle of pack best place

[tribal blade]

it actually is kinda

less chance of getting shot

[sour horizon]

yup, with a small chance of last season buff

[narrow shadow]

Yeah, it's a +20. I think gear stops scaling around 14

[tribal blade]

any time sub is super OP on beta it ends up not being in our favor

[tribal blade]

cool cool

[narrow shadow]

As long as sub is at least decent/mid I will play it

Doesn't need to be OP

[sour horizon]

haha blizz frames so funny, Casual has Demo icon on the top DPS meter

[onyx flame]

This was before the huge nerfs for arcane and demo. They have been miles ahead everyone else

[torn tide]

okay THAT looks alot more like what it should be

oh nvm before nerfs

[narrow shadow]

And before sub nerfs too I think

[onyx flame]

This is After nerfs

[lucid jackal]

Are these the same logs where like

He was gearing very wrong

Like not haste, bad trinkets, etc

[upbeat garden]

Live key rn ,charrend trying to nerf rogues

[short radish]

sandbaggers be blessed

[tribal blade]

oh shit zorthas is healing

[upbeat garden]

yy it was intense

[tribal blade]

how can one heal when you're looking at healing frames upside down

[short radish]

doesnt matter when healing frames are broken anyway

[tribal blade]

lol true

[upbeat garden]

If sub gets some st buffs I'll be happy about the spec

[short radish]

idk

tbh buffs are kinda whatever

numbers go up

numbers go down

[onyx flame]

I still believe we will get st buffs before the raid wich will make sub perfectly fine

[narrow shadow]

I'm mostly concerned about subs prio and ST damage. I'm not too bothered by the overall pad numbers.

[short radish]

you're still always compared against your own spec

i just want some utility

as long as we're not dead last again

ecks dee

[narrow shadow]

When I tried Sub in beta it's ST/Prio was kind of dog

[upbeat garden]

If u use what u have its still fine ,doing 8 sec stun and cheap shot ,interrupts it helps imho ,if u ignore those its bad

[short radish]

it's really not fine

its also not an 8 sec stun

because by the time you do stun it's DR'd to hell and back again

[upbeat garden]

I usually stun first 2 mobs

[tribal blade]

yeah unless you send kidney in the first few globals

it'll get DR'd

[short radish]

tbh that's also kinda fucking up the DR

[upbeat garden]

Then idk ,rogue wont be meta anywway

[short radish]

because now 2 out of the mobs are out of sync on when they cast

[sour horizon]

only time rogue will hit meta ever again will be OP tank spec lol

[short radish]

or when our damage is giga busted

or when the damage profile makes sense

we were almost meta last season

[sour horizon]

we'll get nerfed so fast if our dmg is OP

[short radish]

if it wasnt for those meddling DKs

[short radish]

undermine week -1 never forget

[tribal blade]

really close to meta yeah

[onyx flame]

Imagine rogues beeing meta and everyone plays rogue

[short radish]

tbh we kinda were on the last bosses in amir

and people still didnt want to play rogue

[upbeat garden]

Even if its meta ,we wont get past 3% popularity

[sour horizon]

teir set so good its now apex talent LOL

[tribal blade]

if sub becomes meta this channel will become full of people asking the same question over and over

[short radish]

it basically is anyway

[upbeat garden]

just make a bot that answers the same question

[tribal blade]

lol yeah

remember after the DF rework

[sour horizon]

fotm rerollers push me away from specs tbh

[onyx flame]

I mean that was the intent for this discord, helping players get better at rogue

[short radish]

i think fotm rerolling is going to be even worse this tier/expac

because of how much easier it is to pick up a spec

[sour horizon]

true

[short radish]

yeah but it's also not the spot to ask the same question over and over that's also answered on any random guide

[upbeat garden]

For me it was easy to pick up every class in tww ,I have all classes at 3500+ rate

Ofc I play a lot too

[short radish]

yeah but you're probably better than the average gamer

in fact that's probably like 0.5% gamer

compare that to joe bloggs, father of 5 with only 2 hours to play a week

[upbeat garden]

I just play 60 hrs + of wow per week ,everyone can get good when u have time

[tribal blade]

it'll sometimes be someone asking a question, then 2 lines down someone asks the same question not even bothering to look up

[short radish]

[sour horizon]

yeah 3500+ is crazy, Ill play 2-3 alts and usually just clear 10s for vault

[upbeat garden]

But Im ashamed that on my dk I could do keys so much higher than on rogue ,even tho even before prepach I was doing more dam than most dks

[sour horizon]

DK defensives are GG

[dry plank]

As dk you just got invited and as rogue you don’t 🙂

[upbeat garden]

yeep.

[onyx flame]

I mean i also had a quesion that wasn‘t answered in the written Guides some weeks ago. Asked here and only got troll answers :/

[upbeat garden]

bruh stop

[tribal blade]

sorry to hear that

[sour horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/creek-trolls-trolls-creek-wiggle-finger-gif-10536398424088683757

but what was the question?

did it get answered

[upbeat garden]

hehehehe

[tribal blade]

that can happen sometimes in here

[onyx flame]

I wanted to know at wich exact enemy count i use st/aoe abilities. Only answers where : „yOu uSe sT in sT aNd aOe iM aOe“ yeah no shit sherloks

Found the answer in a video guide

[tribal blade]

oh do the guides not answer that

[onyx flame]

Atleast not at this time

[sour horizon]

I thought it was storm on 2+ in the guide

[short radish]

!guide

[sour horizon]

but I havent looked for awhile

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[dry plank]

Usually people help here. Just ignore trolls

[sour horizon]

trickster I assume?

[onyx flame]

it depends on sd or not sd

[short radish]

though it doesnt explicitly say 2+ targets outside of dance

[sour horizon]

storm on 2 or more outside of dance

3 or more in dance

[onyx flame]

Yeah i know now

[sour horizon]

oh sorry

I thought you didnt get a reply

[onyx flame]

But i am pretty sure it was not written in there when i asked

[onyx flame]

I found it in a video guide back then 🙂

[sour horizon]

all good, glad you got a answer

[shrewd lantern]

people just dont want to play rogue

its not even a popular fotm class

[sour horizon]

xD prob why Ive played it for 20years

[shrewd lantern]

I think only pvpers can sometimes pick it up

at higher levels

[onyx flame]

There will be/is a swarm of new pvp rogues

[shrewd lantern]

Probably because rogue/mage/x has been good the entirety of the game's existence

with multiple seasons of being downright oppressive

[dry plank]

Can you show st damug?

[upbeat garden]

on last boss of terrace he did 76 ,the others 90k+

[shrewd lantern]

meh something has to give

[dry plank]

Last season we had good overall but no profile just padding

[sour horizon]

not Blizz xD

[shrewd lantern]

"padding"

its not pad unless you were running in an arcane havoc comp and spamming bp

[upbeat garden]

In s3 I actually could win on st ,except if it was a frost dk in party

[shrewd lantern]

If you had cds come up at a decent time yeah

the pad argument is incredibly stupid unless you were actively taking damage from funnel specs

[dry plank]

Deleting small adds fast in m+ is never valuable damage

[upbeat garden]

yy starting 12mil bursts felt soo good,some tanks couldnt hold aggro

[shrewd lantern]

from hitting bp

again its comp dependent

like i'll never spam bp with an AR havoc

i mean if they lose aggro through tricks

thats a massive skill issue

[upbeat garden]

usually brews lose aggro

Pala never

[shrewd lantern]

Idk maybe if you hit mobs early

brew was one of the harder tanks to play well though

[sour horizon]

the only aggro problems I had all season were when tanks died and the mobs started running to where they res

[shrewd lantern]

[sour horizon]

good old tricks

[shrewd lantern]

most times i watched tanks flop

are when they want to "try" a pull

famous last words

[sour horizon]

was great to watch everyone be like WTF IS HAPPENING?!!

https://tenor.com/view/sus-whos-sus-not-me-gif-7283757931826139493

[shrewd lantern]

wow players are truly a "special" group of individuals

its like watching a person put their hand in an open flame and ask why its burrning

[shrewd lantern]

Well it's the tanks fault for dying

[sour horizon]

xD

[shrewd lantern]

like only times ever felt at risk of dying while tanking are from playing like a dog

[sour horizon]

yeah its usually from pulling too much stuff

[shrewd lantern]

or just not hitting enough buttons

which causes everything from aggro issues to poor active mit

[sour horizon]

just 10s pug things

[shrewd lantern]

if a ret paladin presses wings on my gather i just let him die

dont bother to retake

if you play male elf or human im just gonna point frontals at you for the funny

[sour horizon]

not the face!

[shrewd lantern]

though i cant imagine playing male human unless you're like

12

[sour horizon]

or a big popeye fan

[shrewd lantern]

tbh i forget who that is

sometimes

[sour horizon]

the old cartoon spinage eating sailor guy with like donkey kong forearms

[shrewd lantern]

Oh one of those ancient text cartoons

yeah i know its that

[sour horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/aaam-espinacas-popeye-gif-21335193

[steel zinc]

Which ones did they fix?

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[vale pine]

the sht gain from apex 2 was fixed

[steel zinc]

Nice how much % is that?

Also you read the filter stuff?

[vale pine]

is it only blades/dance or what buffs are trackable else?

[fallow nimbus]

Sht, stealth, def cds, hero tree stuff

What we need is trackable coup

Or atleast change escalating stacks to coup

[vale pine]

oh, everything, thats handy

[fallow nimbus]

Shroud and sprint too

Even tricks

[thorny ridge]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[haughty mural]

thats kinda huge isnt it ?

and good morning

[tribal blade]

i tried a key today after ~1 month of no beta keys, and the amount of refunds you get now is very tasty

[haughty mural]

[vale pine]

its nice yes

[haughty mural]

im happy for sub

if now sectech would work with it

i'd party for you guys

[pearl swan]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dry plank]

You are not with us anymore or what?

[haughty mural]

most likely on shout duty in s1

[shadow lance]

Good morning Fuu !