subtlety

[exotic steeple]

library is for nerds

[astral axle]

but it just takes years sometimes to happen

[bleak night]

truly insidious

[exotic steeple]

real people get their reading skills from tiktok comments

[hazy breach]

Do these "real people" live in datacenters

And use neural networks

[exotic steeple]

so shindig put assa at default ui and whispyr says its not default?

im curious to how whispyr would rank assa

[tepid trellis]

probably b

or c

[astral axle]

Kind of, yeah 😄

You can think of me as living in a very large, very loud warehouse full of computers somewhere in a data center. No windows, no coffee breaks, just rows of servers humming away.

So: no apartment, no desk lamp — just racks and racks of blinking lights.

[exotic steeple]

so like johnny depp in transcendence?

[ebon trench]

devourer is braindead as sht

very overtuned

[lucid jackal]

Is it braindead

Isnt it a breath type spec

[astral axle]

it is simple to play but i think most people saying that would sing a different story in prog fights

[hazy breach]

Ive heard most of the complexity lies in the apex/at 90

Not prepatch

[astral axle]

it is stupidly punishing

[bleak night]

didnt they at least make it so you dont lose all your souls if you start a star cast and cancel it

that helps a bit

that would be an insane feelsbad

[swift tinsel]

Prepatch, at least in single target, is beyond dull

More fun at 90 with apex fs

But ye it’s like old sub where all of your damage is in your meta and you’re anemic outside it

[tepid trellis]

its just like old voidform SP

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[tepid trellis]

but with more frequent bursts

[swift tinsel]

Aoe is fun tho trying to fit as many CS as you can

[tepid trellis]

since its impossible to stay in meta for that long at a time

[tepid trellis]

im more of an eradicate enjoyer

that scythe is too addictive

[swift tinsel]

Eradicate is so satisfying

[astral axle]

eradicate like that pokemon?

[swift tinsel]

Chunky sfx, sick visual

I dig the CS eruption animation around your target

[hazy breach]

#off-topic message

[tepid trellis]

it just feels good to press

[hazy breach]

Ye

[tepid trellis]

you feel like you really BONK

the target

[hazy breach]

Like DFA

[swift tinsel]

Hell even Cull is cooler than anything we get lol

[opal basalt]

devourer discussion in my sub rogue channel

[bleak night]

devourer has the void/shadow theme sub wished it had

[swift tinsel]

Yep

And satisfying vfx/sfx

[opal basalt]

can i still keep this colour btw even if i'll play outlaw

[bleak night]

no

[opal basalt]

or is that unacceptable

[bleak night]

you get banished

[opal basalt]

[hazy breach]

Shadow dance being extendable would be cool

But alas, not purple enough

[bleak night]

imagine being the only purple spec that cant extend its cds

[plush roost]

Breath sub

Holy

[tepid trellis]

double tap it for a 16 sec dance

[chrome palm]

if they made dance extended, it should do an atack and be on the global IMO so you dont do cringe macros

[plush roost]

Sign me up

[opal basalt]

tbh being a big BoS enjoyer devourer should be a spec for me

[grand wyvern]

Macro for single tap

[swift tinsel]

Finishers extending dance would be too cool and therefore undoable

[opal basalt]

but i just don't wanna be a caster

[plush roost]

I kinda just want a talent that consumes all sht stacks and applies it to a finisher for one big boom

Just make goremaws do it

[hazy breach]

Sectech nuke

HOLY

[plush roost]

If shaman can 10 maelstrom a tempest

We should 21 cp sec tec

Amen

[opal basalt]

i was about to say 21 too

[chrome palm]

secret teechnique should spawn extra shadow clones based per every x sht consumed

[opal basalt]

like spriest ghosts?

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately that goes against the apex they just introduced so its probably not happening soon

But that would indeed be cool, if sectech always consumed all of your sht stacks to deal additional damage

Press dance to build sht stacks and then sectech at the end for a big boom

[swift tinsel]

Uncap sht during dance as well

Get real nutty with it

Skyfury is now a 45% dps increase

[grand wyvern]

Press builder for 2 mins then nuke

[hazy breach]

But realistically the sectech apex clone should just be an additional sectech clone instead of being based of the physical hit

[swift tinsel]

Ye that’d be pretty nice

Or both clones hit twice

[grand wyvern]

Clones that generates clones, asking for bugs

[hazy breach]

Theyve genuinely fixed most of the impactful bugs

[exotic steeple]

i need you guys applying for blizzard

[swift tinsel]

Now pleeeeease fix coup gcd

[loud brook]

hi want to ask if the recent patch is justified. Subtlety got nerfed?

[exotic steeple]

make rogue great again

[swift tinsel]

I like my archaeology job

[exotic steeple]

is that a different term for unemployed

[hazy breach]

Subs aoe was pretty good, and trickster was (and still is) ahead of deathstalker

[swift tinsel]

Not today though, sorting and counting over a thousand bone fragments got old pretty quick

[swift tinsel]

Worse I work for the state

[loud brook]

i did not see a lot subs in beta dont know the numbers. So would you think its reasonable nerf?

[exotic steeple]

indiana jones type sht?

[swift tinsel]

Btw realz ty for the bugfixes keep up the good work

[hazy breach]

The nerf was very small, and most of the specs that were better than sub saw insane nerfs

Besides, they fixed a bug which outweighs the nerf

So

[swift tinsel]

Yeah shadowcraft fix was quite Christmasy

W shit

[grand wyvern]

So expect more nerfs like outlaw bros taught us

[short radish]

can you explain the bug fix to someone who has no idea about what the bug acutally was other than it had something to do with cancelaura macro and our apex was a joke

[swift tinsel]

Wee bit surprised that sht gen hasn’t been nerfed yet

[exotic steeple]

im not gonna lie i saw some streams today of beta m+ and sub rogues were actually topping the damage meters

im gonna lie*

[hazy breach]

Whenever a clone spawns from anything you get 1 sht

That is what apex 2 does

(it includes sectech)

Shadowcraft makes it so whenever you get 1 sht you instead get (during dance) 2, but it didnt work on the sht you gained from clones

Now it does

[short radish]

I see. Thank you

wait does this have anything to do with having to cancelaura?

[hazy breach]

No

[short radish]

is that a separate bug?

[hazy breach]

You dont really need to cancelaura sectech anyway

Yes it does less than it should, but its not worth bothering cancelauraing

[swift tinsel]

Akaari is just shy

Or rather doesn’t want to share the spotlight

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately for deathstalker it is very beneficial to cancelaura the apex talent on Darkest Night in big aoe

[opal basalt]

akaari just reminds me too much of poe

[exotic steeple]

cancelaura´ing should never be a thing imo

[hazy breach]

Since most of the power of darkest night lies in the mark

Not in the eviscerate

[astral axle]

Can we continue pretending DS doesn't exist

[opal basalt]

don't have to pretend

it still doesn't for sub (at least after prepatch)

[exotic steeple]

even in raidß

?

[hazy breach]

In big aoe

[swift tinsel]

12.0.5 DS rework. Possibly 12.1

[astral axle]

Awesome. I was putzing around in mimiron and didnt see it being apparently beneficial in my monkeybrained sims

[bleak night]

the last titan features a very well received ds rework

ive seen it

[swift tinsel]

Oh true yeah

I forgor

[astral axle]

Darkest Night to be replaced by Better Darkest Night

(bdn)

[opal basalt]

(this is what i'm referencing)

and if eleem says it

it must be right

[astral axle]

yuh

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately since then ive discovered they did fix darkest night bug, so its a bit closer on ST

But trickster still ahead

[swift tinsel]

Which darkest night bug?

[hazy breach]

Darkest night does not buff Shadowed Finishers nor the Apex Clones

[swift tinsel]

Ohhh

Gotcha ty

[astral axle]

I guess even if sub st is middle-to-low there are so many adds we can burst down depending on timings

[swift tinsel]

Now that nimble is different they can tune our st up without breaking aoe

If need be

[opal basalt]

man i'm looking forward to not care about my hero talent at all

(i really hope FB stays ahead for outlaw)

[plush roost]

Goremaws bite 230% ap -> 240% ap

St tuning!!!

[swift tinsel]

Don’t tease me

[hazy breach]

Theres a bug on prepatch that makes clones do like 2x the damage they should, if that sticks on release sub is gonna be very strong

[exotic steeple]

dumb question but what buff would sub need to be considered good in both raid and m+ content? could be aura buff, talent rework idk anything?

[hazy breach]

No idea why, and its not happening on beta

[plush roost]

Maybe it has to do with the s3 tier set?

[hazy breach]

Idk it is fairly good, just high numbers really

[plush roost]

Maybe its calculating 100% instead of 10% on the clones?

[hazy breach]

Also unsure if its only on builder clones since thats all we have in prepatch

[plush roost]

I could see that but i aint testing it

[swift tinsel]

I think another pass on capstone talents wouldn’t be unwelcome

[plush roost]

2 capstones pog

[hazy breach]

Dark Brew is actually not bad

[plush roost]

Just awful pathing ya

[astral axle]

it just seems ass to patch thry

yea

[hazy breach]

Dont get me wrong the poison thing is ass

But 10% shadow is fine

[swift tinsel]

Personal wish of DB becoming Banshees Blight and taking the shadow damage portion and adding to apex 2 or vt

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker can pick it instead of 2nd death perception

Its like +-0

[lucid jackal]

It might be good in raid

[hazy breach]

But rotten, lingering, PV and goremaw are all unfortunate

[lucid jackal]

It's not like sub is bad exactly, it just needs encounter design to work with it

[swift tinsel]

I actually am decently okay with the top 2/3 of the tree with the rework

[hazy breach]

Sub also has the benefit of being exceptionally tanky

[lucid jackal]

Idk if u played sub in mana forge, but the spec "looked bad" but it was thanos

[swift tinsel]

Just the bottom section is a bit scuffed

[lucid jackal]

So like idj

The raid encounters can take a mid spec to God tier very easily

[swift tinsel]

I loved sub in mfo

[exotic steeple]

so now u mean like the spec makes sense

[hazy breach]

Sub was the worst spec in the game on the ST boss

[astral axle]

sub was great fun in mfo

[swift tinsel]

Soulbinder was one of my favs

In a long while

[hazy breach]

It was the best (or atleast top 3) on the last 2 bosses

[lucid jackal]

Idk what u mean

[plush roost]

I cant wait to overreact to the class sim googledoc

[lucid jackal]

Same

[plush roost]

My favorite time of the season

[swift tinsel]

Omg when it pops up in guild discord

Fav day

[opal basalt]

where PI doc

[hazy breach]

Sub is less of a 90 second spec now and more of a short burst cd spec

[exotic steeple]

idk either

[hazy breach]

Than in manaforge

[spiral needle]

It popped off from insane burst...which it doesn't quite have anymore

[astral axle]

"oh no we're awful" then pressing sectech on the millions of shitter adds and laughing

[hazy breach]

But like on araz, new sub would be insane

Because you just do all of your damage while the adds are up

Same with dimmy really

[plush roost]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1IRMcJSeJGJFzIt0EUJOMgNhAHgRpTeaVD7qBNqWXrcc/htmlview#gid=1774556142

[hazy breach]

You kill all the adds

[plush roost]

Still wip

[opal basalt]

love it

[plush roost]

Ya that shit is hella public lmfao

[astral axle]

charrend

i knew arms warrior was bad but guyyyss??!!!?

[swift tinsel]

They do 150 dps?!?!

[astral axle]

only 150 damage is crazy!!11

[swift tinsel]

No wonder they’re all dooming

[opal basalt]

i could already crashout at how spriest is doing like 50k les than the other specs

[plush roost]

Omg!!!

[opal basalt]

but then again "WIP"

[plush roost]

Ye tuning isnt done

[opal basalt]

probably means sth about spriest is off

[plush roost]

They added shaman today i think so its like

W.e

[swift tinsel]

Youre not single-handedly getting us nerfed more are you

[hazy breach]

If yall want to compare sub is low 80s

[swift tinsel]

Sources telling me you are

[plush roost]

Erm

[swift tinsel]

Not scath

[plush roost]

Ion on speed dial

[swift tinsel]

I’m gonna blame that musclebrah guy

[cyan cobalt]

doing beta keys on stream as sub right now is dangerous

[plush roost]

40 fucking k man

[swift tinsel]

It’s over

[opal basalt]

i mean those are the most recent SV numbers i saw

so it's very interesting to see frost mage at 190k

[plush roost]

I cranked as assa today

It may be joever for them

[hazy breach]

But as always sims arent the end all be all

[plush roost]

Nope its too late ive formulated my opinion for the whole season

[hazy breach]

Because the amount of effort put into each spec (and class) varies wildly

[plush roost]

I cant believe these greedy survival hunters are stealing our daggers!!!

[hazy breach]

Because its all just people volunteering to spend their time optimizing this thing

[astral axle]

i was playing around with outlaw on mimiron and their st was looking pretty good, but I may have messed something up with gear syntax cause I somehow always do that

[opal basalt]

no reason to play DW with current tuning, 2h just overall better

[fleet wharf]

are daggers actually good for them over other 1handers?

[opal basalt]

the funny thing is: they'll still get fucked on weapons in vault and end of key chests

[fair sundial]

Hey there, new to the discord and the class. Trying to learn sub rogue, feel like I am not doing well. My ilvl is 144 and after my dances I am at around 20k single target. Talent build is Single target from wowhead, anyone feel like teaching at all?

[simple delta]

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

guys am I dumb this macro aint working

[swift tinsel]

Yeah trying to aim for a weapon when you can use like…every weapon will be fun

[plush roost]

I literally am reading surve packleader dw on top rn tho

[fleet wharf]

it's prepatch, and your gear is low. the numbers don't really mean much. Wait for midnight

[plush roost]

And daggers arent nornalized for focus gain XD

[opal basalt]

charrend what black magic circles are you in to read stuff like that?

[astral axle]

Our dagger

[plush roost]

Is this not sv pl dw on top??

[swift tinsel]

Idk Jaden Smith told me our eyes aren’t real so no need to trust them

[opal basalt]

that was before tuning

new tuning is on the right

[plush roost]

Ah

I c

[fair sundial]

Yeah, I just want to get into the groove before midnight ya know

[opal basalt]

log onto beta

setup your char

get on the dummies

[fleet wharf]

it's literally: press the biggest cd available. use the biggest finisher available (sec tech > evisc), use the biggest builder possible (shadowstrike >backstab)

rinse and repeat

[opal basalt]

class plays much better @ 90

[swift tinsel]

Also a bit scared, asked about fixing coup gcd then realz upside down smiley reacted started typing and disappeared

[astral axle]

[swift tinsel]

I fear

If it doubles by morning I’ll see myself out

[opal basalt]

i wonder how annoying those bugs are to fix sometimes

i'd really like to know

[swift tinsel]

I’m sure some are pure shit to look into

[plush roost]

Coup gcd normalized, secret technique 1.5 gcd

[swift tinsel]

Lmao

Manifesting

[astral axle]

Coup GCD will now gradually increase every time you press coup during an enounter

[plush roost]

Coup de grace but its literally making you less graceful each cast (degracing you)

[hazy breach]

Im fairly sure coup is a bit of a mess code wise

[plush roost]

Wdyn 6 instances of damage isnt a mess???

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[hazy breach]

I remember there being a comment about the charge being harder to remove than we might expect

[swift tinsel]

It being three evisc in a trenchcoat is a bit loaded

[hazy breach]

Or something along those lines

From s1

So i assume its the same thing for the gcd

[plush roost]

I wonder if they just took blade rushes code and slapped it onto 3 evis

[hazy breach]

Im fairly sure its DFA but theyve just cut out things

[plush roost]

(Ik this isnt how programming works)

[opal basalt]

this sounds funny

[fleet wharf]

i mean if its so hard to fix, building something similar from the grounds up might be the better solution

[astral axle]

coup from above :O

[tepid trellis]

check if the keybind is on the stance bar, so make sure its on there both in and out of stealth

[tepid trellis]

what i was told is that its just a blanket spell that just casts 3 eviscerates

[hazy breach]

Ok i just made shit up ig

Unlucky

[swift tinsel]

almost got away with it too

[opal basalt]

i wouldve loved it to just be literally DFA

tbf

[tepid trellis]

where as DFA was a 2 part spell 1st dmg instance being DFA itself doing the spin and the 2nd hit just being a stronger evis

[opal basalt]

i really like that animation

[swift tinsel]

never experienced it, even now that its a pvp talent

[tribal blade]

is there a possible issue where if they change the duration of the coup gcd it could break the spell

[tribal blade]

it was really fun

[tepid trellis]

not that im aware of

[swift tinsel]

I've heard that its fun but also dove through the floor

[tribal blade]

the pvp spell doesn't do it justice

[tepid trellis]

all i remember was them saying it being 1.2 sec was on purpose

[tribal blade]

issue was pathing sometimes yeah

[tepid trellis]

now as to why

who the fuck knows

[tribal blade]

"friction"

[tepid trellis]

well the pvp spell is a neutered version of the original dfa

[swift tinsel]

I fail to see a good reason why

[tepid trellis]

it used to be 50% increased dmg

[swift tinsel]

it would be 1.2

[plush roost]

So i can really feel the swosh swosh, swosh, swosh

Of me coup de glaze

[swift tinsel]

isn't it just a swoosh swoosh zing

[plush roost]

No its definitely 4 instances of noise

[swift tinsel]

(I typically don't play with sound)

[opal basalt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj9q_B2Mx1M

[plush roost]

2 quick swosh

Then 2 heavy swosh

[astral axle]

i like to think of it as more of a zap boom bop

[light finch]

DFA in Tomb of Sargeras

good times

[hazy breach]

For the most part sectech does the same job DFA did in the rotation

[swift tinsel]

dang homeboy flew to the moon

[hazy breach]

But DFA just "felt" more chunky to press

Like it felt like it does big damage

Sectech doesnt really do that

Despite doing similar numbers

[opal basalt]

sectech gives me three invisible clones

dfa was a good animation

[swift tinsel]

still a missed opportunity not to use the Void-Reaper's Contract animation for sectech

would make the button press feel much, much more rewarding imo

[opal basalt]

you guys think we're gonna get a new "jump 3 times" type of trinket with weakauras gone now?

[astral axle]

i would not have liked my character to float in the air for a second before attacking

[swift tinsel]

nah probs not

[hazy breach]

We probably are

Its just not going to be random between 3 things

[swift tinsel]

idk I could see it being something like branch or antenna

[astral axle]

i thought there is one on beta no

something releases souls and you hafta go pick em up

am i creating lies

[swift tinsel]

nah I vaguely remember one like that

[hazy breach]

Yes it spawns thingies you have to collect to get agi

Like crucibles or something

Dont think its very strong overall though, but maybe mr simcraft is lacking critical information

[astral axle]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=250258/vessel-of-tortured-souls

tribute jar

[restive venture]

during our opener with lust we can get 2 sec techs during our shadow blades, I assume thats what we're aiming for?

[opal basalt]

i'm only getting that with ALSO getting pi'd

but might just me being bad or having too few haste

[tepid trellis]

in prepatch

yeh

i a bit easier in midnight with the tierset

[restive venture]

Haste has a better effect in MN I assume?

Won’t need to stack as much

[tepid trellis]

blades gets longer duration

with tierset

[restive venture]

Ahhhhh

[cold sequoia]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[south pelican]

does anyone have any data on racce parses, i know they are close just curious

[plush roost]

Mechagnome is bis

[south pelican]

freak mechagnome tf

[tribal blade]

i still don't understand why they nerfed blades duration then added it back to the tierset

makes no sense

[warm marlin]

wdym

hasnt blades been 16s for ages

since it was changed to a 90s cd

[tribal blade]

oh i think i'm actually high

nvm

i have no idea why i thought it was nerfed

[lilac stag]

Still feeling the effects of CNY!

[tribal blade]

haha yeah

not a numbers person so they become interchangable in my head all the time

[lilac stag]

Don’t worry, soon flag will come back asa tier set

[tribal blade]

nooo don't put that out in the universe

[torn tide]

holy sub looks so nasty in midnight beta

the clones and refunding

[native zodiac]

I was skeptical at first about this whole sub rework but after playing beta a bit with a decent haste amount its actually p fun

Kinda feels the exact same almost

[tribal blade]

yeah people were hard dooming over prepatch

when it was half the spec

[native zodiac]

A classic realy

[warm marlin]

i expected there to be more small optimization things to find but for the most part there hasnt been anything

[bleak night]

its definitely simpler

[native zodiac]

I also think with the haste scaling forward we could have some insane stuff coming with s2 and s3

[bleak night]

it kinda just comes down to how much spec complexity matters to you

for a lot of people its a dealbreaker

for me though wow combat is still at its core the best in the genre, ive found a few specs i really like in midnight

[native zodiac]

Give it time, im sure it will get a bit more in depth in the coming season

[chrome palm]

It’s been out there for a while

There really just isn’t much to it

[bleak night]

yeah idk how much there is to magically find

[warm marlin]

we did a lot of tc work

[chrome palm]

There’s just very little you can even optimize to begin with

[warm marlin]

most things just dont matter

[native zodiac]

Nah i meant in s2 and s3

[warm marlin]

oh ye maybe in later seasons

sectec charges alone would help a ton

[bleak night]

its funny how often adding charges would just make an ability more fun

[chrome palm]

Honestly every part of the spec just seems bad to me

Having every cd be macro’d, macroing to save gcds, no ramping, it just feels clunky

[bleak night]

yeah the macros are kinda cringe

[chrome palm]

Getting most of your cp from auto attacks, out of dance gameplay having no importance besides casting a limp eviscerate

[native zodiac]

Macros are defo aids

[chrome palm]

No meaningful funnel or damage profile

I’m sure some will enjoy it but it’s the worst I’ve ever seen the spec

[bleak night]

not having cdr really does make everything outside of dance feel pointless

[zenith wedge]

feels too on rails, not a fan of the pruning. They just removed things to remove them not to make a cohesive kit.

[bleak night]

they definitely shouldve added something you do outside of dance that increases your damage inside of it

[chrome palm]

There’s no real new gameplay or abilities which is a let down

[bleak night]

so you're building up to each one

[tribal blade]

that would be dope

[chrome palm]

Like spriest is pretty simple but they actually added new things to it this season

[warm marlin]

bring back prism that you stack by spending cp

that auto consumes when you cast blades

[graceful rock]

yeah i think the CDR was the biggest thing they pruned

[bleak night]

spriest didnt really get anything new added, they just didnt lose a lot

just pets which sucked anyway

[graceful rock]

if they just removed rupture sod and flag it would basically feel the same

[bleak night]

and voidform extension was really nerfed

which is unfortunate

bc voidform kinda sucks ass now

but it mostly plays similarly to tww so it survived quite well

[zenith wedge]

they gave them the tentacle slam, which is so much nicer than shadow crash

[bleak night]

they need to give us the option to ground target tentai slam

there are a lot of cases where you couldve hit everything by aiming crash, but cant do it with slam unless your character is in the right spot

but i like the spell better

overall

[chrome palm]

I feel like you could just adjust the aoe

Or the targeting

[bleak night]

it doesnt take a year and a half to land either which is really nice

but ye i think spriest is one of the specs that came out of midnight the best

for sure

[chrome palm]

Also shadow cdm is like 3x of what sub needs lol

[bleak night]

[zenith wedge]

there is just zero decision making in sub and its easy to execute. They need to give it something to manage

[vale pine]

there is still some decision making, the rotation is just very basic

[fleet wharf]

is the decision making deciding to use the secret tech already on cooldown or to stop eating glue and use the only available finisher (evisc)?

[lilac stag]

If it matters, time to unsub. Nothing in complex.

[fleet wharf]

I am genuinely curious though, like even with apex it seems like sub will look nothing like it did in tww, most other melees don't look to be any more complex than what we have going on, what's there to do?

[tribal blade]

i hopped around a few specs to do some farming stuff and everything seems mega pruned to me

[lilac stag]

It looks exactly the same

[tribal blade]

so this is just the game now

[vale pine]

It is in optimization and adjustments to encounters. Also most classes end up easy now, thats just a new design philosophy

[lilac stag]

Just krangled prep work is gone

Supercharge Sectech. Stack cds for blades. Vibe

[fleet wharf]

but aren't we the perverts who liked that krangled prep work?

[lilac stag]

No

[warm marlin]

Yes

[maiden oar]

yea

[fleet wharf]

like maybe not all rogues, but ones here, def yes

[lilac stag]

It was toxic for having any approachability to the spec

[radiant temple]

Still feels like enhancement has something going. At least it got some more buttons to press that are satisfying to line up

[maiden oar]

i like inertia on havoc

and conduit on ww

[fleet wharf]

but havoc doesn't exist next expansion

[maiden oar]

hehe

[fleet wharf]

there's this thing called devourer

[lilac stag]

That’s not to say they can’t iterate on what we have in beta. But it’s a solid base to move forward with.

[fleet wharf]

they ate havoc

[lilac stag]

Everyone pining for excessive complexity, prepare to be disappointed with all class gameplay

[fleet wharf]

Sure, I'm also willing to give them some time to iterate on it, but I am quite saddened by the current state of the spec

[lilac stag]

then take a season off

[radiant temple]

Crazy to have soon three 'skill trees', just to press 4 buttons for damage though

[vale pine]

The game just changed, classes are designe to be simple with fewer ways to customize/optimize gameplay

this isn't something inherently bad, simple games are often very successful

[fleet wharf]

yea, for sure. we are def on the fringes of the gaming population. Remains to be seen i guess

[vale pine]

the question is, as always, if the existing playerbase thinks that too, because thats the gamble blizz took with this radical change in philosophy

[lilac stag]

The slow drip of people realizing wow maybe not the game they should sub to any longer is interesting.

[fleet wharf]

if raiding isn't fun, yea I prolly won't stick around for s2 and beyond

[lilac stag]

can it be fun for you if the specs are not?

[fleet wharf]

but idk man, mythic raiding in tww was a lot of fun

remains to be seen. I did mess around with assa, so I should be ok, but it took me a lot of trial and error to find sub, and to have that be taken away kind of sucks

[lilac stag]

I’m also amused you want complexity but didn’t want dust.

[fleet wharf]

Oh, I was new at the time and dust was a tad bit too much, I'm keeping it now because I like the icon lmao

[lilac stag]

weird. Spec was too much.

We’ve gone full circle

[fleet wharf]

well it was too much to try to do while doing the stupid tranmitter tasks

[lilac stag]

Enjoy midnight.

[fleet wharf]

I think I'd be able to handle it now, but not when I was trying mythic raiding for the first time

[lilac stag]

That’s literally the reasons for the changes.

[fleet wharf]

I kind of get it, but my argument to that would be if there are 20 other simple specs, why can't at least 1 remain complex?

like sub had a very specific niche in terms of playstyle and damage profile, and it just feels like we've become melee spec #13

[chrome palm]

Bro you do not get it

[lilac stag]

So one gets played even less than it does now and is even further outside your game design scope?

[chrome palm]

Steve has 20 kids that he just put to bed and got off his 14 hr shift at the coal mine

So every spec needs to be ret paladin

[fleet wharf]

I'd argue they could've simplified sub by just rolling flag into sblades

[lilac stag]

Our dmg profile is still burst and cds when they flattened that for every spec.

[fleet wharf]

no "hard" execution, infinitely easier to play, but keeps the profile

[chrome palm]

I’ve heard arcane and ww have actual burst

Unlike what sub has now

[fleet wharf]

I thought arcane got gutted recently?

[chrome palm]

Which is basically two dances out together

With a weak 20% amp on top

I mean you can’t even double secret without lust anymore

It’s just not comparable

[warm marlin]

3-gcd burst seems good but ye it falls off

blades needs more amp

[tribal blade]

we should be able to x2 sectec per blades

[fleet wharf]

I feel it's too late now, but I do think it'd be more fun if dance duration was shorter and more impactful

[tribal blade]

i think it's unacceptable to not be able to double sectec each blades

[lilac stag]

What’s hitting subs burst every 20 seconds (or whatever you get Sectech down to)

Dance is strong.

Blades is mediocre.

[warm marlin]

dance is strong and sectec is strong, so it's very weighted to the beginning of dances

[lilac stag]

Yay near instant burst with some prep

[chrome palm]

Yeah sub is super good at padding adds at the start of dimmy

[chrome palm]

There’s no prep though

You just hit a macro that uses everything

[fleet wharf]

that's outlaw now

[warm marlin]

near instant burst with practically 0 prep is scary

that's how you get nerfed, see fury warrior in nerubar

[chrome palm]

I for one liked flag ramp

[fleet wharf]

so true

[warm marlin]

need to keep your burst prep heavy so you dont look too good in heroic 50th percentile

[chrome palm]

The null binder grip on dimmy platform one holy

[warm marlin]

not even remotely joking btw you really want prep for your burst so this doesnt happen

plus its fun

[fleet wharf]

it's ok, there should be like 50 sub players left for midnight

there are so many ret pally specs to pick from

no one will pick us

[tribal blade]

if sub's tuned high enough there'll be a lot of bandwagon players

even more so now that sub isn't super complex anymore

[fleet wharf]

idk man, I feel the blizz's fav rogue spec will likely be ahead of sub anyway

[lilac stag]

I’m done worrying about tomorrow. Their tuning is so all over. whatever mental gymnastics going into it isn’t a concern for me any longer. We constantly adjust to whatever they do on a whim.

You all are playing rogue. If you don’t like sub. Run one of the other two.

[tribal blade]

well the start of prepatch a lot of people were playing sub because it was tuned the highest

[lilac stag]

if you don’t like rogue, find a new class / guild

[fleet wharf]

bro i wouldn't wish finding a new guild on most ppl

fuck that noise

[lilac stag]

those are your options

Or just quit

just a reality check

[fleet wharf]

yea, mostly meming, assuming nothing too big changes, we'll prolly be the go to raiding spec at the start of next tier

[tribal blade]

we'll see what happens

[lilac stag]

If your identify to raiding and enjoying wow was only playing something overly complex, the game has moved on. Better? Worse? That’s for the individual.

[fleet wharf]

I get the frustration, but I feel this is one of the few places where I can bitch about that since I'm guessing most of the ppl here also enjoyed that complex spec that's now gone

I am well aware of my options and yea, if the game no longer brings me joy, I'll be gone, so let me be man

[warm marlin]

I'm obviously still going to play the game and have fun with a new season I just don't like the direction

[lilac stag]

I hate dust is gone. Guess I should just hate everyone in here for trying to (and succeeding) in that change

[tribal blade]

i'm actually in the position where i'm taking a step back from sweaty content in wow so i'm honestly pretty fine with everything becoming simpler

kinda perfect timing for me

but i get the frustration

[vale pine]

dust was removed because it was a problem

[lilac stag]

You’re also not whining every conversation about it as others seemingly are. Either find your fun or don’t.

[vale pine]

and there are multiple solutions to a problem, blizz took the easiest one by just removing it

[lilac stag]

it ain’t getting changed. Not before release st least.

[tribal blade]

i feel like dust could come back now

it would basically be like a weaker version of prep

you would insta reset sectec

insta reset 1 dance

and -30 on blades

[lilac stag]

There’s a reason outlaw got prep and we didn’t.

[fleet wharf]

but then wouldnt blades become 2min again

[chrome palm]

If blades reset dance/secret that would be interesting so blizzard would literally never do it

[vale pine]

the problem around dust was the weird cooldown timings

[tribal blade]

trueee

[vale pine]

but

[tribal blade]

that would be cool to bake dust into blades

[vale pine]

the iterations after dust ended up fine

[fleet wharf]

it was weird when flag and blades cd were different

[pliant topaz]

bro i havent been in this channel for 2 months i think. i come back, first message we still talking about dust. LOL

[chrome palm]

The blades/dance/secret macro makes me want to jump into the interstate

[tribal blade]

we summoned you

[vale pine]

scath brought it up

so you got lucky ^^

[pliant topaz]

my dust sensors were tingling

[lilac stag]

Spec was too hard and not approachable as I was learning mythic. Then I learned spec. Now spec too easy.

[alpine wraith]

dust would be kinda cool yea

[tribal blade]

i actually feel like we lost out on armin takes in these trying times

[alpine wraith]

but it is not happening they hated it quite a bit

[lilac stag]

The irony is amazing

[fleet wharf]

I don't get why that's such a weird take. I'm arguing that it could've made sense for blizz to keep some of the more complex specs instead of making 20 diff flavors of ret

[vale pine]

its not a weird take

[pliant topaz]

im sure you guys did great in my absense! hope yall enjoy midnight

[alpine wraith]

well they have kept specs complex sometimes but it has not worked out because it is so much work

and then you perform worse or same as others

[tribal blade]

haha we tried our best ❤️

[lilac stag]

You’re just upset that it’s “your” spec that it happened to after you wanted what others of us really enjoyed gutted. That’s the irony.

[fleet wharf]

bro, I wasn't playing rogue until like 2nd half of S2 of TWW, leave me out of the dust drama

I'm sad that no one else will have the opportunity to have a similar road of discovery

because this spec no longer exists the way it did

there are other ppl who could've gone on a similar journey

that is no longer possible

[vale pine]

well, thats a game direction question

current goals of wow just don't allow this to exist

[lilac stag]

Sod gone? Great
Flag gone? Great
Rupture ? Leave that for assa

You’re overestimating how many people will struggle managing Sectech and aligning cds for sblades.

[fleet wharf]

I am only using the no dust thing because I think the icon looks funny

[lilac stag]

People are still going to completely mangle CDs, especially the Sblades at 90 second mark

[fleet wharf]

i mean yea, i also look at assa logs, that's not a surprise

[lilac stag]

so that journey is still there

[tribal blade]

having done a metric buttton of make a wishes over the past 6 years this is very true

[fleet wharf]

what, learning to play a simple buiilder/spender spec? I'm not bitching about that

[vale pine]

easy fix

[lilac stag]

Outlaw

[vale pine]

they make blades a multiple of 20 sec

[lilac stag]

And Sectech same as dance

[vale pine]

yes

exactly

[lilac stag]

Then we’re ret

[vale pine]

tbh, i think the cooldown discrapency is kinda weird

of blades/dance

secret with haste cdr on top

its not hard to play or anything

but it feels intentionally designed to be harder to understand

[lilac stag]

I’m still worried about accessibility for my vision. I wish worrying about 2 button ret sub difficulty was my only concern

[vale pine]

what part exactly?

because addons are now allowed to do a lot of visual changes

and sound allerts seem to have made it in the game

[alpine wraith]

best one will be when you want to save 2 dances for any situation

and some people do and others dont

green parsers unite

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

Same as always. Can’t see mechanics under spell effects and no audible cues to assist.

We shall see how the audio alerts get fully implemented. Just let me turn off other players spells. For the love of the gods

[radiant temple]

Weird they cannot make that work - Or they don't want to make it work

[vale pine]

Same as always. Can’t see mechanics under spell effects and no audible cues to assist.
I have no visual problem, and don't see them ^^

[lilac stag]

100% intentional to preserve some of sub (in bliz eyes at least)

[vale pine]

btw. discord has a video quest for wow now

[tribal blade]

my favorite is auto pilot sending a dance and then realizing you needed to save it for an upcoming moment

despair

[vale pine]

its funny, because the video is basically

"LOOK void dh"

[lilac stag]

Is it a video to take your facial scan?

[vale pine]

XD

[alpine wraith]

in m+ it happens quite often too

but in m+ there is also the trap of wasting secs here and there not using dances then losing casts

or overcapping on travel time

[tribal blade]

yeah M+ is very dynamic on when you need dances

[alpine wraith]

that one will be very silly when i get dms why my dps suck

[tribal blade]

unless you know everyone will die if you don't send a dance

you can kinda just send dance whenever it's up and be fine in keys

[vale pine]

some of the keys felt melee unfriendly

[tribal blade]

but obviously as key levels go higher this becomes less and less the case

[vale pine]

it might be because we ended up not familiar with them

[tribal blade]

i think that's always the case for melee in keys

for like 80-90% of key encounters

[lilac stag]

I’m interested to see how frustrated gunslingers get with blade flurry management

[vale pine]

one of the central mechanics for melee seemed to be

[tribal blade]

then ranged will have 1 bad encounter and you don't hear the end of it

[vale pine]

"run out of melee for a bit and wait"

[tribal blade]

yeah i don't feel like playing whack a mole anymore personally haha

[vale pine]

which felt weird, so you often will need to have mobs to go to

[haughty mural]

poor range players

[tribal blade]

i'm too old for that shit

[fleet wharf]

When was an encounter ever bad for ranged though? genuinely curious, any examples?

[vale pine]

means pulling strategies will impact a lot of stuff, or well... you just go with 3 ranged dps

[haughty mural]

if you ask BM mains
every encounter

[tribal blade]

first example that comes to mind is that boss on ML

[haughty mural]

because they have to do so much

[tribal blade]

that targets a ranged

[fleet wharf]

oh no, i can cast while moving, what will I do

[tribal blade]

has adds that focus only ranged

[pliant topaz]

come back for df classic 💀

[tribal blade]

the only ranged spec it wasn't aids for was BM

[fleet wharf]

what about the bosses on street? manegerie and the last boss were no bueno, no?

[tribal blade]

last boss was a lot of running around yeah

[vale pine]

to be fair, their pet ai can rly get in the way

[fleet wharf]

I will in 2050

[tribal blade]

any time there's a lot of movement it's rough for ranged

[haughty mural]

fair

[steel zinc]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tribal blade]

i think the boss with the different light zones in rise was hard for ranged

[haughty mural]

its not like every range has a array of good movement spells themselves

"mostly"

[tribal blade]

yes true

[haughty mural]

they just wont use it

[fleet wharf]

I mean I was playing shadow priest before I swapped to rogue, and it sucks playing shadow in keys, but that's not an encounter design issue

[tribal blade]

the big thing is most mechanics in keys are poop in melee

[fleet wharf]

should just reroll dk tbh

[tribal blade]

so they're just naturally avoiding most mechanics

[fleet wharf]

I can just say no to mechanics

[vale pine]

dk ended up surprisingly good for the last xpacs

[tribal blade]

i think if you want to play something likely to be meta it would be dk

going into midnight

[warm marlin]

yes moving triangles is like the only mechanic that really reduces ranged uptime

[haughty mural]

i really dont want to discredit range players
but every time i play a range spec i feel like all is easier

[fleet wharf]

yea, but I like my guild, so I'll stick with rogue for the time being

[haughty mural]

maybe thats just me

[warm marlin]

most bad ranged mechanics you can counter by going melee

[tribal blade]

haha true

[warm marlin]

its legit payphone every time i play ranged

[tribal blade]

yeah it's a whole new world

[fleet wharf]

idk, I think the class/spec matters a lot, but i do feel melee has been much easier to play

[tribal blade]

i remember naohw doing a mechagon junkyard on his MM hunter

and the entire time he was going "HOLY FUCK LOOK AT ALL THOSE MECHANICS I DON'T NEED TO DO"

[pliant topaz]

go duo with romi instead

[warm marlin]

i would like my account to remain unbanned

[haughty mural]

i thinks its really subjective

[tribal blade]

like so many encounters are just turbo aids for melee and ranged can just stand wherever

thinking of 1st boss mists rn

[pliant topaz]

weak... just send it yolo

[fleet wharf]

just cloak it bro

[tribal blade]

but this is a really divisive argument to bring up around ranged players lol

they will argue till the end of time ranged is harder to play

[fleet wharf]

I feel casters might be harder to play than melee

[tribal blade]

so i can only ever vent about it in a melee channel

[vale pine]

rly hard to predict, ret is still super popular

[haughty mural]

and i'll argue till the end of time range is a lot easier

[fleet wharf]

but not if you can move while casting

[vale pine]

you run into the problem of

[haughty mural]

so it goes

[vale pine]

"why would i change spec/class"

[warm marlin]

I've played boomie arcane and spriest mainly as my casters

[tribal blade]

hard to predict yeah, but given grips and dk being invincible i feel for keys at least

it'll be meta

[warm marlin]

all 3 i was piss vibing compared to melee

you have so many instants

[fleet wharf]

that is so interesting...

maybe I should give casters another go

[vale pine]

the main reason people usuaully change mains is

[warm marlin]

if you know how to stutterstep you can cover most movement like that

[vale pine]

because the other spec performs noticably better

[tribal blade]

in raid ranged have a lot of hard jobs

for sure

[haughty mural]

yes this is a biggie

[vale pine]

with specs/classes simplified to the degree we got in midnight

tuning should be better in theory

so even less incentive to change

[fleet wharf]

actually, do you guys like that we get no jobs because we're melee and also rogue therefore no utility?

[maiden oar]

do you mean tapping a or d at the end of a cast bar

[warm marlin]

yes you have a small grace period you can walk without losing a cast

[maiden oar]

ah ok

does it slightly delay the next cast

i was trying to do it gapless earlier

and i had a tiny gap

[fleet wharf]

there are cast bar addons that tell you how much graceperiod you have based on ping and stuff

[vale pine]

could be worse, could be tank ^^

[maiden oar]

but idk if im a noob

[fleet wharf]

old ones I was using weren't updated for midnight, so I'm back on blizz base ui

if I was a caster still, I' might be able to help you, but I'm a filthy rogue

[tribal blade]

funny thing is a boomy i used to play with made title S2 of TWW

[maiden oar]

yea me too but i think i mgoing to multiclass now

[tribal blade]

she meta swapped to warr for S3 and didn't make title

[warm marlin]

im trying to remember but straight up back to back spellqueuing hard casts and getting some movement is hard

[tribal blade]

coincidence?

[fleet wharf]

what other classes u trying?

[maiden oar]

depends on whats fotm

[fleet wharf]

lmao so devourer

[maiden oar]

for raid if im not rogue im probably dk or devourer

but odds are im rogue

for m+ im fotm man

[fleet wharf]

if it's meta fotm, it's 100% devourer

[warm marlin]

but like spriest you have dp, instant cast mb, voidbolt, mage barrage, missiles, boomie xd all your spenders, just need to cover a lot of ground and plan ahead when you move

[maiden oar]

i think until blizzard inevitably radically changes their design philosophy again itll be easier than ever to multiclass

so i should learn

[maiden oar]

2 other dps specs in the comp

so idk yet

[vale pine]

there is a fork of quartz for midnight

but the original is supposed to get an update too

[fleet wharf]

fair enough, devourer may or may not make it for m+, but they'll def be op for raid

[vale pine]

so we will see

[maiden oar]

hehe

i like rdm in ffxiv i hope melee combo devourer is good

id play that

[tribal blade]

blizz will likely let devourer stay tuned high

since it's a new spec

[fleet wharf]

I really wanted to try surrender spriest, so I def wanna try devourer for that reason

[maiden oar]

yea

[tribal blade]

can't nerf that spec into the ground and noone will play it

[maiden oar]

ah ok

ive got 0 opinion on if melee or ranged is harder i am so ignorant

maybe i find out this season

[vale pine]

is it fun to play now?

[tribal blade]

i think every new spec added to the game has been OP except dev evoker

[tribal blade]

i have NO idea, there's no shot i'm gonna touch it haha

[fleet wharf]

haven't they just been overshadowed by pres and aug?

[tribal blade]

but i hear there's issues with their star thing

not hitting

[vale pine]

interessting

guess we will see that too

i did hear some concerns about gameplay

[tribal blade]

it's a new spec so not surprising they have some serious issues going on with spell bugs

[vale pine]

a new spec should be less prone to bugs

[tribal blade]

oh ok

[radiant temple]

Devoker is okay, its simplicity works well - Even when its just keeping a beam on something

[vale pine]

many of the bugs come from old spells

[fleet wharf]

4 disintegrates in a row is peak gameplay

[vale pine]

if you create a new spec, you are more careful

[radiant temple]

Mass disintegrates is bueno

[vale pine]

and can do new spells

[onyx flame]

I guess/hope our st will be buffed before the raid

[maiden oar]

4th rogue spec bard

[plush roost]

okay gamers

[maiden oar]

when...

[plush roost]

Low haste rogue

[maiden oar]

support guy bard so cool

[plush roost]

with skyfury

is kindof insane

getting sub nerfed again sorry ugys

[maiden oar]

ok np

[radiant temple]

Once again

[haughty mural]

i love your emotes grouch

making me smile everytime

[maiden oar]

ty

hes a funny cat

[keen dome]

can't believe you'd do this, charrend.

[plush roost]

not the 38% black powder overall....

[maiden oar]

uh oh

are you still puzzle bxoer

[keen dome]

So they're gonna buff BP is what we're getting.

[plush roost]

Nah just played feather

I played 240 haste

And 1600 mastery

[fleet wharf]

For midnight, what does SD do for us again?

[willow pawn]

yo char you got trickster talents? @plush roost

[fleet wharf]

I thought it stopped giving flat damage multiplier

[plush roost]

With apex

Tight spender cb deeper and forced induction obv

Everything else on class tree is just preference

[willow pawn]

leaching or poisener?

on left side

prob poisen buff for fun

[plush roost]

Poisoner i think

[maiden oar]

what the

[plush roost]

Flask and feather are 400 mast 8)

[maiden oar]

crazy

[plush roost]

Found 200 by dropping haste

Rest went into versa

[maiden oar]

how do you test stats on beta are you just crafting a bunch of gear

[plush roost]

I was at 101% iirc

Yeah random dungeon loot and crafting combos

Gems n shit

[maiden oar]

[plush roost]

U mean shadow dance? It still has dark soul talent and death perception for amps

[tribal blade]

101% mast in S1 gear is hefty

[plush roost]

I dont think its realistic on live

Unless you get some insane vault loot

I have a dungeon cloak thats 20 verse 68 mast at 1/6 hero

Like a myth version of that is only vault

[tribal blade]

makes me kinda sad seeing both clone talents not being taken

nado and WM

[plush roost]

I think theres room for them with apex buff

Err bugfiz

[tribal blade]

i'm guessing you'd be on the WM bandwagon

for more boss dammy

[plush roost]

Ive been a weapon master gamer for a while

With imp ambush

[tribal blade]

makes sense

it's one way to speed up keys people don't think about sometimes

taking forever on bosses is a big time sink

[plush roost]

On high haste youre already sht saturated so it had no negatives other than my overall going down like 5%

But my prio went up crazy

[tribal blade]

oo nice

[plush roost]

On low haste tho, idk

[tribal blade]

that's a fair tradeoff

[plush roost]

Maybe unplayable

[torn tide]

i think youve played more hours in beta than the hours that ive played in tww season 3

[tribal blade]

he's a big boy

[plush roost]

Im ngl unless youre an insane i want a 50 point rotstion with no mistakes kinda gamer

I think this expac will be very popular

Im having a lot of fun

Granted im testing a new setup every other day lmfao

[sinful zephyr]

what do you trade off for wm?

[plush roost]

Veiltouched

Were like 50/50 magic phys now tho so veil is quite good overall

[tribal blade]

veil also active on both ST and aoe

[steel zinc]

thats for m+?

[plush roost]

Yes

Also hi mapko big fan of ur addon

[steel zinc]

thank you ❤️

[plush roost]

For pure ST its the same talents btw, but u drop potent powder for weaponmaster thats literally it XDDDD

[steel zinc]

I am all for it. When I did some beta testing I ran nearly similar talents. I still find DS hero talent such a pain to play in m+

Its like the old mark for death days just worse

[plush roost]

Ye ds is a bit cringe

[tribal blade]

it's interesting that sub retained our ability to swap barely any talents between ST and AOE

i thought they would have moved away from that

[steel zinc]

they just in general nerfed our auto cleave. We are back to DF in that regard imo

[plush roost]

Yesh well they didnt touch goremaw gated db behind 2x finality and gutted the rotten

[fleet wharf]

but that takes dev power

[tribal blade]

this

[plush roost]

So what options are there really

[steel zinc]

goremaw idk how that talent survived and reason for another rework

its a freaking capstone that has never been touched

[plush roost]

Lingering and PV as well just weak

[tribal blade]

i actually completely forgot rotten existed

[plush roost]

So its like, do i play PE and gut my ST damage? Do i play tornado and lose imp sec tec?

Why would i?

[alpine wraith]

we have good general talents

then undertuned ones

so you take the general ones

[plush roost]

Ye

[alpine wraith]

like if wm was like 20% or higher proc

it would be a thing you think about

[sinful zephyr]

could be worse...how is finality after all?

[alpine wraith]

finality is just undertuned

not horrible just worse than other points

think it was like 1.x% per point

[tribal blade]

everyone thought we'd be full stacking crit dmg talents and crit as a stat

and end up taking none 🙂

[alpine wraith]

not really we said from the beginning new finality was just worse

[tribal blade]

true yeah

[alpine wraith]

and old one was already not spectacular

just other points were not huge either

so maybe you took 1 or 2 points

now we have depth

[plush roost]

Im pretty sure this will come true in season 2, if nothing changes

[alpine wraith]

in s2 depending on tier we might gear more crit

[plush roost]

More secondaries to go around

[tribal blade]

yeah S1 is always weird secondaries wise

[alpine wraith]

mastery might get even better

because blades tierset is not super synergistic either

and potent powder is just looming

+clones kinda give mastery even more power

[maiden oar]

im kinda worried

aoe raid

instant aoe burst

[plush roost]

Doubtful youre hitting the 1k haste breakpoint, mastery and crit scale off eachother hard

[maiden oar]

no diff between aoe and st build

heroic week

uh oh!!!!!

[plush roost]

Bro im trying

[tribal blade]

yeah we might end up getting early nerfed

[plush roost]

Okay

[maiden oar]

we are getting nerfed!

[keen dome]

I'll get hard to work making sure they buff us instead

[dry plank]

aug was added in s2, in s1 dev was around top in raid and shit in m+

[plush roost]

Idk if we'll have the haste to actually stand a threat early on, maybe fly under the heroic week radar

[keen dome]

rogue tank spec in 12.1.5 believe

[tribal blade]

that's good to hear

[plush roost]

Like if we walk into heroic week with like 60% mast 8% versa and 200 haste

I dont think itll be too wild and crazy

[haughty mural]

damn those are kalamazi tactics

[fleet wharf]

the insta pad damage might be the issue though, cuz like ryldd said, that's why fury got gutted s1 of tww

[plush roost]

Mm im prrtty sure its just fallen king u can really really pad on

Vorasavius or w.e u kinda have to stagger add kills

So u can just blow ur load

[fleet wharf]

it was just rashanan that fury was padding on too lol

[plush roost]

No

Ansurek

Brood

[fleet wharf]

oh, I guess ovinax had some too

[plush roost]

Ulgrax

[alpine wraith]

more than pad it is like if we can pop off others can just be more calm

[plush roost]

Bloodbound

[haughty mural]

even bloodbound, yea

[fleet wharf]

hm, ok, my memory is shit.

[plush roost]

Same thing happened to outlaw

Youd crackshot bf shitters

[haughty mural]

besides kyvezza and council everyone had those add spawns

[plush roost]

Paladin fight i think sub will be ass on

Last boss, we'll see

Chimerus itll be strong

Fsllenking probs

Maybe dragon boss if the add spawns matter

I can see a nerf but i can see frostmage suddenly becoming jesus as well

[alpine wraith]

first they have to thanos snap demo

we are only like 40k dps behind

[keen dome]

it's the imp based economy

[haughty mural]

there are far far far worse specs out there right now

than sub in comparison with demo

[keen dome]

We need to seize the means of imp production

[haughty mural]

demo so broken, not even locks can sandbag any longer

[bleak night]

I hope imps start running off and pulling shit again

[torn tide]

nah i hope imps start turning on the lock and start attacking their summoner

[keen dome]

Have you seen the gif of them pulling?

It's way funnier than that

[torn tide]

i have not but ive heard of it happening before

[bleak night]

https://i.imgur.com/E9ZsiA8.mp4

[keen dome]

Yeeees

It's so good

I think it's a top three WoW gif for me

[haughty mural]

i love it

[alpine wraith]

wild

[keen dome]

Smooth Larry's Impcident.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226959169633255425/1184686798878818404/image.png?ex=6997ca0f&is=6996788f&hm=eca6be048d735902578c534e6cc383a7a46d7704a42a62b0b20c3887435218c3&

The hotfix for that specific issue

[torn tide]

NAHH smoothlarry the lone warrior

[quick swan]

Do we send dance without sectec at all

doing like 0 damage, havent played this yet lmao

[tepid trellis]

generally speaking no

only time there is an exception is during blades where you back2back dance

[alpine wraith]

yes it is very likely we dont play a lot of haste to get 2 in blades

but you will use sec tech later on another dance so dont worry

[quick swan]

I usually have a a dance available with no sectec and its a LONG wait so

I assume you just send that dance without sec?