subtlety

[languid pond]

Uh oh

[haughty mural]

critcake probably broken after he got beat by tanks on beta

so wouldnt count on him

[tribal blade]

i try to listen to max because he has blizz's ear

[languid pond]

Damn

[tribal blade]

so everything he says has relevance

no matter if you agree or not with him

[languid pond]

That’s a fair point

[left shale]

freiend has mained dk since wrath and is waiting oin the inevitable nerfs right before release that they seem sot get. at leasst in his estimation.

[haughty mural]

(take everything i say with a grain of salt pls)

[left shale]

being good in beta is a curse.

[languid pond]

No worries

[lilac stag]

Yeah they were total shit all of TWW.

Delusional fucking DKs

[languid pond]

I prot tanked all last season so this is my expac as a dps. Cries in lfg 😂

[left shale]

nobosy is always bad 🙂 if i remember they were good in beta then got nerfed going in to the xpac, then went up from there. nobody thinks their class is any good anyway.

[hazy breach]

Fwiw DKs did lose 8% stamina and a 15% damage reduction cd going into midnight. So its not like they didnt get touched

Its that their baseline was so high that such a nudge didnt move the needle

[lilac stag]

Still higher stamina than brewmaster?

[tribal blade]

i feel like they need to adjust deathstrike

that thing is just nutty

[left shale]

stagger makes total health kindof a non issue

[hazy breach]

I feel the opposite, better to let deathstrike be nutty because it feels good

Reduce passive DR instead

[tribal blade]

DKs literally standing in traps in 1st pull of priory because they can just heal through it

[tribal blade]

mmm true

[left shale]

watched a brew in a 16 magisters yesterday do 68k single target or so. adn his health didnt move much. they are gonna get dunked on at some point

[lilac stag]

Still hilarious how much the health gap is between my fury war and rogue

[tribal blade]

i don't think so tbh

brew hasn't been meta in... wait i don't think ever in keys?

since title has been around?

maybe S2 SL

[languid pond]

What like 50k?

[left shale]

i mained brew for about a decade and will always wait for them to get smacked down. so many people hate the spec and are now going to end up playing it. will be interesting to see how long it will last like this

[lilac stag]

Brew ends up in raid because lol WW and Mistweaver up and down tuning.

[tribal blade]

i think they'll let it ride

i have a feeling

[lilac stag]

It was a couple million in s3

[left shale]

hope so. still one of my favorite specs.

[lilac stag]

I want to say the warrior was 18.2 unbuffed but I may have the numbers wrong

[tribal blade]

ok yeah the last time brew was meta in keys was S2 SL i think

never again since then i'm pretty sure

[lilac stag]

When was rogue last meta?

[tribal blade]

maybe DF S3?

[left shale]

they used to be much more healer dependant and people hated htat. too much more work when you could end up with another tank thats more self sufficient and let the healer smack thing instead

[tribal blade]

no wait

nah outlaw was just good, but it wasn't meta

[tribal blade]

oh yeah healing a brew is completely different to any other tank for sure

[languid pond]

The only thing I see being high and mighty is the new demon hunter spec

[tribal blade]

damn i think rogue also hasn't been meta since S2 SL

possibly

[hazy breach]

Rogue hasnt really been meta, but its fairly consistently been on the frontpage of the highest keys in a lot of seasons anyway

[lilac stag]

^ this

when was double outlaw?

[hazy breach]

DF s1 sub was definitely considered meta though

[tribal blade]

the ramfam era

[tribal blade]

oh TRUE

[lilac stag]

Did I just block df1 from memory?

[tribal blade]

that was a season i hard pushed and didn't make title

was sad

[lilac stag]

I think I blocked most of df from memory.

[tribal blade]

might have possibly been because i was playing with some people who weren't title caliber yet

[languid pond]

What’s title? 3k?

[hazy breach]

0.1%

[tribal blade]

last season it was roughly 3.9k

[languid pond]

Dayumn

[haughty mural]

it was the season bongo cat sub gif emerged

[tribal blade]

varies depending on the season

and how much you can push keys up

[languid pond]

I just recently started hitting 3k but that was as a tank, no clue how dps will go

[tribal blade]

playing as a dps is in some ways more chill than tank because you're not leading the group

also there's not everything riding on you living

but also less chill because there's so many dps out there and it can be hard to get invites

[languid pond]

Yeah, but I also don’t have control and have to trust people 😂

[tribal blade]

also as dps your rotation directly affects how fast the key is going

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[tribal blade]

yeah that's the way it goes 😉

[warm marlin]

I suspect this may depend on your guild

[vestal escarp]

Hmmmm

Highest usage rog spec for sure

[hazy breach]

Tbf that was like the best balanced season of all time because blizzard made balance changes for almost the entire season

Instead of abandoning it after 4 weeks

But more than half of the runs on the frontpage are with rogues, so id say thats pretty meta

[mighty citrus]

i mean look at fights like dim mythic this season. early on the timers suited so well for sub, we were really smashing it, but with extra gear, timers getting fucked, raidbuffs etc, we end up sucking dick at this boss

so really hard to tell when you snapshot something as meta or similar

[warm marlin]

also sub was never bad on dim wym

[vestal escarp]

https://mythicstats.com/season/df1

[fleet wharf]

i feel assa was better unless you really needed the platform damage, no?

[mighty citrus]

depends on dragons and hunters in your group i guess

the more they sucked, the more you could do later on

[fleet wharf]

at least for me, sub was great while we were holding damage (so all of prog through first 2 kills) and then we just started full sending and it sucked to play sub then

[tribal blade]

hehe that's fair

[warm marlin]

i looked at a bunch of top logs comparing this in the middle of .5 and sub/assa both did similar amounts of p1/p2/p3 damage

assa technically very slightly better on average but both very good

[fleet wharf]

it's just such a shitty feeling going into burst when you don't have all your cds up as sub

because if you can't full send on burst, sub is def worse than assa

[mighty citrus]

i think this goes for all classes. the main thing is, as sub you do nothing dmg wise outside of cds, so it hurts more

[tribal blade]

i think this is past tense now

[mighty citrus]

i think i spider

[tribal blade]

i think i giraffe

[mighty citrus]

(only funny if you are german)(

[tribal blade]

i dunno what this game is haha

[vestal escarp]

With the right flips sin could have higher burst in thos 15s

[warm marlin]

yes also a lot of the sin logs were people abusing the cdr bug

well their burst usually wasnt better

more the cdr thing

[tribal blade]

that was such an insane bug

it's wild they never fixed it

[lilac stag]

Don’t you know assa is the buggiest rogue spec and blizzard just ignores them?

[keen dome]

Where do you think they get their poisons from?? bugs.

[hazy breach]

I thought it was dart frogs

[tribal blade]

i assumed it would be from plants

[keen dome]

Why not all of them.

The ultimate poison. Like the dollar flu from Division 1.

[tribal blade]

TRUE all of them are correct answers

[keen dome]

Maybe it's Soylent Poison.

[lilac stag]

[keen dome]

Maybe it's a Big Boss situation with Rogue poison. We think they're poisoned so they are. Just raw psychic power.

[opal basalt]

i mean that's the classic answer. back when we used to make our own poisons

[tribal blade]

yeah i've been listening to this guy who's trying to save the rainforest a lot on podcasts

it sounds boring but it's actually metal af

he got stung by a stingray and almost died and the locals used plant medicine to save his life

he said the plant medicine was actually more effective than western medicine

[opal basalt]

i mean aren't antidotes mostly synthesised from the actual poison?

[tribal blade]

i think some super high amount of the medicines we use are from plants in the amazon

and there's also a shitton of poisons in there too

[bitter halo]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[void hound]

big boss? the patriots? revolver ocelote?

[keen dome]

La-li-lu-le-lo

[bitter halo]

Can we still macro sec tech in with the below macro?

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

[tulip light]

yes - edit: didnt see the sectech part my bad

[hazy breach]

What

If trickster press dance at full cp, with sectech

If deathstalker (which you shouldnt really be playing after prepatch), then do it at low cp with shuriken

[fleet acorn]

Just make 2 macros 1 for each hero spec ?

And don’t use Shared bars

Problem solved

[hazy breach]

Realistically just ignore the deathstalker one

And play trickster

[tribal blade]

jesus christ it's chinese new year tomorrow and i'm getting absolutely spammed with ads on youtube

every 5 seconds

[upbeat cradle]

I thought deathstalker was better in ST in prepatch ?

[tribal blade]

it is but that'll be over in midnight

[hazy breach]

Theyre about the same now

[tribal blade]

oh shit is trickster on par with DS now

i can swap hell yeah

[hazy breach]

"but all the top logs are from DS!" yeah but theyre from january before they hotfixed it

[tribal blade]

yup sad

[upbeat cradle]

Oh so I'll just switch back to Trickster then

[hazy breach]

At the moment it looks like there is no reason to ever play deathstalker in midnight

Its like 7% behind on ST and like 15% behind in aoe

[haughty mural]

[hazy breach]

And its also insanely annoying to play in aoe

Because you want to cancelaura your apex talent everytime you use Darkest Night

[tribal blade]

the way it should be

[keen dome]

It's a tragedy that it's purple

[hazy breach]

No you use darkest night everytime now

[bitter halo]

Thanks @hazy breach

[hazy breach]

But you dont want to buff the eviscerate, as most of the damage is in mass casualty

What

Darkest night applies the mark

You cant cancelaura darkest night

"cancelaura your apex talent"

[bright sundial]

Apex lmao ima stop talking

[onyx flame]

People use yt without premium?

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm not a moneybags person unforch

although i don't think it costs that much

[onyx flame]

There are ways to get if for less than a dollar i heard

[haughty mural]

i use youtube so rarely, i never cared

[vestal escarp]

Rip

[tribal blade]

oh interesting

thing is when you're looking for ways to save money

you realize there's a lot of things you can tolerate and go without

[left ledge]

Deathstalker is designed for assa

Shit just never clicked for sub

Too clanky

[haughty mural]

its not even great for assa though

[left ledge]

Yeah not anymore lol

They didnt design DS just now

[barren plume]

Sub is pvp spec not allowed to pve in it. Those are the rules not allowed to be sneeky sub snek in a dungeon

[summer knoll]

hey guys, a question. I know things are still evolving and may change with tuning but anyone know if the rotation is similar to pre-patch or (hopefully) more involved with apex, tier etc. coming

[languid pond]

https://tenor.com/view/no-randy-jackson-dawg-gif-12730917

[warm marlin]

tier doesnt change much, looking like you strike at max cp in dance to proc apex which is a bit of a change

[summer knoll]

hmm, sub is the only spec I get bored when playing, want to make it my raid alt but not sure if I can if sub is best

wish they didn't butcher it as much as they did

[torn tide]

if u dont like how it plays u shouldnt play it really

[toxic carbon]

It's better than ASSassination right now and getting outdamaged by 30k dps on a 99 parse by DH's and DK's

[torn tide]

lmao ASSassination

[frosty steppe]

Hey guys! Do you always use shadow blades with two Shadow dance and for how do you sit on your cd generally? THX!

[barren plume]

That’s alot of dmg to be behind

[hazy breach]

Its prepatch

Theyre not even attempting to balance prepatch

[barren plume]

Oh I thought the dmg was from a beta run

That he was talkin about anyway

[toxic carbon]

Prepatch, sorry for confusion

But still...doesn't feel good and I don't think Apex is gonna amount to much

[barren plume]

I’ll be honest I have no clue what our apex does other than summon a shadow man… what are shadow technique generators? Just builder skills?

[hazy breach]

It does not say shadow technique generator

[barren plume]

Damaging attacks that expend Shadow Techniques to generate combo points have a 15% chance per stack expended to create a Shadow Clone that repeats the attack for 50% of normal damage as Shadow.

Yea like I said I have no clue what it does

That’s why I’m asking

[hazy breach]

Basically you do shadow damage with builders sometimes, the second one is that you get more sht sometimes and the last one is that if you have more than 5 sht stacks left after a builder your next finisher also spawns a clone

They really should make shadow techniques a talent instead of a passive

Because nobody looks at passives in the spellbook

[keen dome]

Ye..

[barren plume]

So basically Sht stacks up during builders and then on 6 stacks they consume on finisher

[hazy breach]

No

[slate marlin]

yep, you always use 2 shadow dances in blades

only 1 sectech tho

[barren plume]

So how does the stacking work in regards to consumption before 5 or more

[hazy breach]

Its (mostly) generated by auto attacks

[barren plume]

Yea you’re right I need to read more

[proud dagger]

Guys im kinda new sub rogue trying to learn, do we use coup de grace in AOE ?

[wind obsidian]

what does it mean when some of ur empty combo points have an empty x in them?

[fathom adder]

@proud dagger yes, it cleaves with nimble flurry

@wind obsidian supercharged

[vale pine]

thats supercharger

basically means your next finisher will count as being used with higher combo points

its a bit confusing because it dispays how often the effect happens

and not by how much combo points

so if you have 2 superchargers

it means your next 2 finishing moves get the benefit

[past field]

i simed my gear twice with different stats and i feel like we lost dmg after the midnight talenttree change last wednesday. is it true or did fck my stats?

[vale pine]

we lost damage, because they also nerfed us by 8%

and we get another nerf this reset, only for aoe

[barren plume]

but no ST buff to compensate boooo

[wind obsidian]

thanks 🙂

[past field]

oh i missed that one. i new something felt off. thank you 🙂

[proud dagger]

One more question, do we only use shadowbaldes with 2x shadowdance ready ?

[hazy breach]

Not necessarily, but you want to be able to use two of them during blades

[proud dagger]

i see

[proud dagger]

last question from me - SND is that something we just dont press ?

[hollow spear]

Yep

[vale pine]

it will be used passively by cttc

so you don't worry about it at all

[finite crow]

Assa will be the way to go first season 100%

[vale pine]

hard to say

[quiet smelt]

so i see this SD/ST macro for trickster, wouldnt it be bad to use considering you wanna ST in blades and you normally cast dance>blades? or do you just end up using blades first ?

[finite crow]

I dont think its on global anyway

If u macro it all together it will cast during it

[quiet smelt]

i also see you generally wanna SD at full combo points, does this chnage opener from SS>Evisc>into burst window... or would you open SS>window since youd be full CP

[finite crow]

Ss into st as far as i know

[tulip folio]

so in aoe , in shadow dance we hit suriken storm for builder ?

[finite crow]

Ye

[tulip folio]

bruh so like 80% of gameplay is storm into powder

?

[finite crow]

Ye

[tulip folio]

okay ty

[finite crow]

And sd + st when up

Should line up

Thats why u open with it and it lines up for 3rd dance

[tulip folio]

so u open sd blade trinkets everything pop sectec

and u spam storm powder until sectec and sd is back ?

😭

alsou wtf is this why i have 4 weps tmoged 😭

[sullen hare]

:0 Greg has finally come to wow!

[silent condor]

Still not on mage DPS level

[silent condor]

Funnel prio mobs is Shuriken + evis ?

[alpine wraith]

you dont use evis apart from coup or DN

on aoe

prio is fake

[hazy breach]

Why would you specifically cast dance > blades? Theres literally no difference in how you order them

Just cast blades before you press that dance macro and its completely fine

[vale pine]

hit a dummy, it will fix itself when you start combat

[onyx flame]

I have played the same key on my arcane mage and sub rogue right after….i will never recover from this

[keen dome]

Because Rogue is so much cooler + better + handsomer than mage?

[plush roost]

Well u can shiv in aoe to save some energy to keep powdering if you have 5+ sht stacks and you can strike in AoE instead of storm for some priority at the cost of overall and you can choose not to cancel aura apex secret technique if you have a lot of sht stacks and also cancel aura secret technique when you dont and also you can sec tec dry as blades ends to fit an extra one in and align all your shadow dances

[tulip folio]

for like 0.1% increase

they destroyed my class 😭

why our highest spec is sub and its still in b tier

[main falcon]

I'm S-Tier

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-bull-gif-25758801

[tulip folio]

what u play

[main falcon]

I'm not playing, i destroy. That's the first thing you need to learn

[exotic steeple]

hi guys is this correct opener for midnight (aoe) : i shadowstrike> 13/14/pot/shadow blade > shadow dance > secret technique > shuriken> black powder and react to coup de grace when procced?

thx

[barren plume]

why not use vanish as dps? shadowstrike BP vanish shadowstrike pots CDs ST storm bp/coup?

[stoic spire]

Are we even reacting to coup or just macro it to black powder? Is there any benefit of holding coup to fit it inside dance?

[slate marlin]

your dmg outside of cds is really low, so its better to save vanish as a defensive

[hazy breach]

In ST vanish is a small dps gain to use, but in big aoe (6+) it does literally nothing

Strike and storm do practically the same damage and shuriken storm gives full cp anyway so premed doesnt do anything either

[warm marlin]

huge silent storm value though

[hazy breach]

Ok ig, but storm doesn't do that much and you already have like 60% crit on it

But yeah that is something

[warm marlin]

i was meming tfd is the only value

silent storm so mid

[hazy breach]

I just double checked, its actually pretty close to irrelevant 💀

Crit chance goes from 81% to 85% in my profile, on a spell thats doing like 3.5% of the overall

Ig its gonna lose 5% crit chance come next tuning, so its probably gonna be worth 0.1% instead of 0.05%

Genuinely might be more worth to run quick decisions or ephemeral bond

Too bad we cant pick speed shroud with that point

[vale pine]

speed shroud is unfortchunatly placed

[chrome palm]

You should eviscerate once before using CDs if you don’t have slice and dice up

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-how-it-feels-lies-gif-8610001828096601613

@short radish can relate

[white scaffold]

Question regarding the changes, since I didnt really play Sub before and read to ignore Darkest Night mostly, but now we dont, how exactly do I need to change my gameplay in ST?

[hazy breach]

All the talk about ignoring it was for aoe

[white scaffold]

o.o

[lilac stag]

also just play trickster

[white scaffold]

ok so there i really dont need to pay attention? ^^ I can just brain off and follow my rotation? :D

[hazy breach]

Not sure what you are asking, just follow the rotation either way

[white scaffold]

honestly i am not sure myself what I am asking

I try to follow the rotation, but I dont really know what exactly I do and if I do it right, since I dont have a comparisson, if you know what I mean

I do be weird

[quiet smelt]

how do you sim nowa days

without simc

[vestal escarp]

Feelcraft

[quiet smelt]

this a website or addon or ?

[vestal escarp]

It's the practice of theorycrafting your best possible action towards your character be it gearing or talent choice or rotation choice based on your feel

[hazy breach]

Not sure what you mean without simc, its still simc

Just on raidbots.com

[lilac stag]

Ask Mr Robot

or
ask your favorite streamer

[quiet smelt]

i mean the addon to get your characters string

[lilac stag]

you get simc addon. Type /simc and goto raidbots

[hazy breach]

Its the same as before

Nothing changed

[quiet smelt]

hmm i cant seem to find it on curseforge

nvm im sped

[lilac stag]

#pvp

[broken seal]

mb thanks

[plucky turtle]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[rain stratus]

Would you guys prefer leveling as Trickster or Deathstalker come Midnight?

[lilac stag]

it won’t matter?

[spice matrix]

Same shit different smell

[lilac stag]

let me run my 10 second sim here, hold please.

[spice matrix]

Play trickster. You get sweet passive cleave

[vale pine]

not anymore^^

at least not to the extend you got before

[graceful rock]

trickster for the increased pick pocket range

[spice matrix]

Gg

[spice matrix]

It’s just much weaker now correct? Only autos and what else

[vale pine]

it moved from single target spells

to coup, unseen blades and auto attacks

[tulip folio]

so we dont fit 2 sectec ins sb anymore or

am i tweaking

i have 2% haste btw coz it was worse stat for us

xD

[hazy breach]

Nope

You can during BL though

But it doesnt really matter that much

[tulip folio]

So nothing mattaers anymore i just press buttons ? 😄

[hazy breach]

I mean there are things that matter

[tulip folio]

so i open with shadowstrike sd sb trinkets pots sectec

and then just sd into sectec

and spam ss backstab evis

until everything comes back ?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq and the guides have writeups on the rotation

[tulip folio]

ok ty btw theres compltily diff talants and rotations on wowhead

wowhead acctualy says u play deathstalker in single target

xD

[hazy breach]

Theyre about the same

[tulip folio]

so same rotation ?

[lilac stag]

The difference is spelled out in the faq

[hazy breach]

@warm marlin I fear the rumours of his death might've been greatly exaggerated

They also fixed the "lingering shadows not working on apex clones" bug

But it still doesnt work on sectech

Very strange that they didnt fix symbolic victory and follow the blood at the same time. Potent powder seems fixed though

[lilac stag]

oh no

[bitter halo]

For cleave in raid do we just run the trickster M+ build?

[hazy breach]

Practically no difference between them

But sure

[bitter halo]

It’s just you’ve only put two up in FAQ, so just wondering if there was one?

[hollow spear]

Will it ever?

[short radish]

???? what are these false accusations

[bitter halo]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tulip folio]

mhm so i can just take out from bars

since we pop it only with sd i just use macro right

?

[true fable]

anyone that has some beta talents anywhere ? for m+ :3

[warm marlin]

initiate project coverup

[hazy breach]

Mr Simcraft has not been injected with this newfound knowledge yet, we will have to see what his opinions are

But my feelcraft says were still in the clear, for now

[warm marlin]

I haven't had time to run anything in like 2 weeks busy times at work

[hazy breach]

On the bright side our boy potent powder was fixed too

[warm marlin]

i miss nimble cleave

more power to bp is

[tulip light]

i ask musclebrah a lot - and get banned a lot 🙁

[vestal escarp]

like to sheet is stilla vaible?

[slate marlin]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[alpine wraith]

oh no i think DS might get stronger for st now

[golden hare]

halfway through a key my black powder macro just... stopped working? I finished and came to dorn and its still not working anymore?

#showtooltip Black Powder
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

I just copied and pasted the old macro into a new one and its working on the new one, has anyone had this issue?

[hybrid prism]

What are we thinking, should I come back to sub rogue? I miss it so much. I swapped mains for MO and miss my stabby boy. Fire mage is butt cheeks so I might as well go back to the spec I played for so long

[quiet smelt]

someone mind linking me their log for a decently high key where you feel you did really good ?

[plush roost]

U mean clones benefit now?

it would seem similar

[slate marlin]

Plenty of them in warcraftlogs beta

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7b3wJBLV19GkYa68?fight=2&type=damage-done

wouldnt say its my best but its somethin

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7b3wJBLV19GkYa68?fight=9&type=damage-done&modal=fight-selection

this is the entire list for the day if ur interested

[hazy breach]

ye it seems so

[plush roost]

ye was looking at logs and it seems to correlelate, but it still seems... weaker? like i feel like it should behigher than an average powder cast with all our shadow mods

like a 27k normal hit + 18k clone hit

granted none of the keys i was doing had veiltocuhed but thats noly 5%

[hazy breach]

Ye it should probably be a bit higher

But it looked fine when i was checking on dummies

Not sure whats not working, the eviscerates are closer to like 80% it should be

But either way the clones went up after i specced potent powder now, whereas before it didnt

The darkest night fix is probably the relevant bit

For ST

[plush roost]

yeah somethings definitely wack with it

a single powder and its signiicantly diff

[hazy breach]

The sectech apex clones are a bit weird too

[hazy breach]

It does the "everything besides main target take less"

But theres no target cap on it

[plush roost]

u mean sec tec apex is working?>

i didnt see that

[hazy breach]

No

[plush roost]

or just the phys part

[hazy breach]

Still just the phys part

[plush roost]

ah lame

[hazy breach]

But like

Its good in big aoe

Because it doesnt diminish

They forgot to add a softcap to it

Like BP has

[plush roost]

I see

I wonder what target count that becomes worth not cancel aura for

Can u cancel aurs premed?

[hazy breach]

Sim says its just never worth to cancel it, even on ST its like +-0

[plush roost]

Cause in mass aoe i can see dance cancel aura premed sec tec powder

[warm marlin]

i do think at some point it would be worth making st second global to apex it

or the cancelaura as char suggests

[plush roost]

Hmmm

My flag keybind is still empty

Maybe i go experiment later

Like if we have sht banked in st wouldnt dance cancel premed sec tec strike at 7cp coupapex just be insane

[hazy breach]

I would be surprised if it was worth to cancelaura premed in non-aoe situations

Like the sectech doesnt do much more than eviscerate, its similar (actually slightly less)

[plush roost]

Yeah maybe im over cooking.

I do like sectec apex second global if we wont have a coup ready tho, but that will be kind of annyoing since we dont wanna delay sec tec at all

[warm marlin]

starting with a builder was indeed fine if it didn't explode the robot's brain down the line later

so its probably good

or well

not good but fine

allowing it to apex sectec there was equal when i last tested it

[hazy breach]

I completely removed the cancelaura thing for sectech

[plush roost]

Hmm if they ever fix it surely that just becomes the play then

[hazy breach]

Only have it left for darkest night in aoe

[plush roost]

U think the dn apex change will make DS st similar enough?

Or probs still behind a bit

[hazy breach]

Dont think its a 7% fix

But prob like 4-5%?

[plush roost]

Hey not bad

Also if potent powder if fixed shiv tech is probably nerfed too?

Since wed rather be apexing powders

[hazy breach]

Never found the shiv tech to sim higher

Like it wasnt bad, just +-0 for more effort

[plush roost]

I remember reading shiv was a small gain but maybe that was before other changes

[hazy breach]

Yeah but when i double checked a bunch of those changes (like shiv/sectech cancel) turns out its about the same to just press buttons so why have complicated lines when simple do the trick

Strike at full cp still worth though

[plush roost]

Yeahh im surprised that ones stuck around so long

[hazy breach]

Also in prepatch all the builder clones do like 2x the damage they should, no idea if thats gonna continue

[plush roost]

If they fix it i pray they compensate buff evis or something

[hazy breach]

Sub st kinda low so I would expect some buffs for that (maybe with more aoe nerfs?idk) and evis is the obvious target for that

But who knows

[warm marlin]

it was only ever like 0.2->-0.3% in bigger aoe

cant remember if i tested it with the aoe build either

was maybe just a raid build aoe thing which is obv cursed

mostly shiv memes

trying to squeeze out a modicum of variable gameplay that isnt just storm bp

[hazy breach]

Im afraid we got stuck in the middle of this one

Embrace the buttons 🙂

[warm marlin]

.5 patch will save us

sectec charges surely

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/bleak-it's-bleak-shaking-head-its-bleak-black-and-white-gif-9592734580409210082

[clever ember]

is sub rogue or any rogue spec goin to be decent for Midnight does anyone think?

[hazy breach]

Probably

[chrome palm]

For m+ the truth is rogue doesn’t really bring anything to the group

[hazy breach]

If we keep blind

[chrome palm]

So if you want easier invites play a class with more utility

[clever ember]

i mean everything im reading and watching rogues are just getting dumped on

[maiden oar]

looks cool

[hazy breach]

Rogue is definitely not dumpster

Its gonna be fine

[chrome palm]

How useful is blind realistically with caster changes though

[hazy breach]

But whats the absolute best is impossible to tell

[clever ember]

i didnt say they were dumpster but thats what every one is say ing bascially about them

[hazy breach]

They always do

[chrome palm]

To be fair most people don’t know how to play it on beta

[clever ember]

everyone is saying play Lock, Hunter, DK

[vagrant fulcrum]

Depends what your objective is

[clever ember]

Mythic Raiding and M+

[hazy breach]

If you want to be the fotm meta spec

You need to reroll

To whats the strongest

And you dont know what spec that is

[vagrant fulcrum]

Only issue with all those is they’re tuning reliant entirely

[chrome palm]

Rogue has a spot in raid for sure but in high m+ it might be difficult

[vagrant fulcrum]

No raidbuff to get you a spot for sure

Atleast I’m fairly sure that even if rogue sucks I’ll be brought for atro…right guys

Guys?

[maiden oar]

yea in raid its np

[chrome palm]

For raid sure

It seems to work well on every boss

There’s no stix/araz in this raid

[vagrant fulcrum]

If someone asked me what dps class id bet my chips on it would be mage still

[maiden oar]

i missed 1 week of farm and people said grouch i am so sad i need the poison i wish you were here

everyone loves it your spot is guaranteed

[vagrant fulcrum]

Going off purely inherent design I think mage has a decent chance of seeing use, all three specs have different damage profiles and niches, they have a real raid buff still

And w/e is op now is likely to be nuked if the past has taught us anything

[chrome palm]

Also lust dispel and other stuff

[maiden oar]

i think they have a desire to make devourer and brew good for keys

[vagrant fulcrum]

Specifically keys?

It’s usually just overturning all round

[maiden oar]

yeah maybe not specifically keys

[bitter halo]

When entering the cooldown window do we send shadow blades before going into dance?

[maiden oar]

but id bet they are part of the comp

[vagrant fulcrum]

Didn’t mean as a disagreement, moreso was curious about why

[quaint lodge]

Do I play trickster or DS in prepatch in raid

[vagrant fulcrum]

Or how even

[maiden oar]

oh they seem hesitant to nerf them too much bc one is the new fancy spec

[vagrant fulcrum]

Ds

[quaint lodge]

Im seeing people on logs do ds, but faq says trickster

[chrome palm]

Trick

[maiden oar]

and one was recently reworked AND was historically unplayable in keys before the rework

[quaint lodge]

[vagrant fulcrum]

It kinda depends on what fight

[hazy breach]

Either is fine

[maiden oar]

brew has been smoking other tanks and they keep barely nerfijg it

[chrome palm]

Ds gives you aids

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker was better, then they hotfix nerfed it

[maiden oar]

or even buffing it

[hazy breach]

So now theyre about the same

[vagrant fulcrum]

But ye they’re fine, both feel erm kinda the same

[maiden oar]

i think they love that guy

[hazy breach]

But deathstalker is stinky to play, while trickster isnt

[quaint lodge]

laughing ud think we wouldnt have deathstalker walking into midnight after the entire rogue community has said they hate it

but here we are

[maiden oar]

surely they replace it

[quaint lodge]

[maiden oar]

some day

[vagrant fulcrum]

My guild still meme the feedback post I wrote for blizz forums

[quaint lodge]

honestly dont even hate ds as much as everybody else does, i enjoy playing it, but trickster is really fun in general

[chrome palm]

They’ll rework dn again

And symbolic will still be bugged

[vagrant fulcrum]

Ngl I think it depends on spec and how much inefficiency you’re willing to tolerate to make your life simple

[maiden oar]

ok but they could just find some other common thread between sin and sub that gives u funnel

and make a hero talent based on that

[vagrant fulcrum]

If you lose your mark as sin it’s joever, sub can just bp a few times to get DN

[quaint lodge]

IF ONLY THEY BOTH HAD RUPTURE.

[chrome palm]

They’ll rework ds so you don’t need to track anything

And then we will be able to ignore hero talents at last

And pretend they don’t exist

[vagrant fulcrum]

I think the premise of dn is cool in terms of adding texture to your envenoms / eviscerates

Moreso sin tbh, sub has too much energy for it to really have gameplay

And no spatter

Idk, seems like they didn’t really design the tree with sub in mind

[bitter halo]

@hazy breach When entering the cooldown window do we send shadow blades before going into dance?

[maiden oar]

so sad

[hazy breach]

What

When you use your cooldowns, you use your cooldowns yes?'

[bitter halo]

Yes, but do you send blades first before entering dance or dance then blades?

[hazy breach]

If you have a dance macro then before

Otherwise it literally doesnt matter

[bitter halo]

Ok I’m using the two macros, send blades first? Ok 👍

[astral axle]

oh no

WW folks messed up an override for testing changes and implemented a 10% nerf as a. .9% buff apparently

disasterous. tragic. poor green rogues.

[plush roost]

https://youtu.be/GAu6Eob6PI8?si=KDyHXuqtYkcNokpO

Yknow i thought sub was 2 button but this is just peak gameplay

Clsssic gamers are just simply built at levels we dont understand

[tender dust]

Classic is goated

[swift tinsel]

(incorrectly)

watching that energy uptick like a metronome lulling me to sleep

[stray oyster]

is sub lacgging behind on retail with dps, since the changes it feels very bad

[tepid trellis]

prepatc is just meme content

[wanton oasis]

is the faq up-to-date? which hero talents are performing best in raid and m+?

[tepid trellis]

0 balance during it

[tepid trellis]

fairly sure Deathstalker is "better" on single target and Trickster for m+

so almost accurate

[rustic geyser]

deathstalker is better at making me wish for death - that's for sure

[stray oyster]

prepatch rogue is awful right now

blizzard is a fun vacuum

[fleet wharf]

at least we're not alone in the spec being dogshit for prepatch

go play some other games till midnight launch

[rustic geyser]

darktide is super fun this time of year

[short radish]

oh yeah whats up with fellowship

why does that only have triple digit players now

[rustic geyser]

nothing really - the game is fine, it's just for the vast majority of players who will actually engage with it, why play it when you could just play on your current wow account?

[short radish]

but why play on your current wow account either

[rustic geyser]

devourer is kinda fun tbh

[short radish]

is it fun because numbers high?

[rustic geyser]

I think it's fun

idgaf about throughput, that's all just balancing

fun spec still fun

[short radish]

fair

[rustic geyser]

and right now everything is dogshit simple so fun is all you need

[short radish]

this is true

everything is very mongo bongo

[rustic geyser]

but really though, if you have hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of hours already invested in characters, it will be a hard slog for a game to peel you away from it for the same content

even if it is comparable/as good

[red pewter]

I mean. Beta isn’t much better tho

[torn tide]

sub trickster isnt so bad

[tepid trellis]

imo it feels a bit hollow without apex talents, not using collapsing star on single target in raid felt weird af

[rustic geyser]

eh the single additional star to me is super super super no biggy

[tepid trellis]

well you are gonna get like 3 off in meta

right now you dont even play the talent

at all

you just max out reap dmg

[rustic geyser]

that's all just throughput though

spec still feels like spec feels

[maiden oar]

i think conduit ww is fun

and not insane simple relative to other specs

shadopan seems to be the guy though

[lilac stag]

[astral axle]

2 button but it is literally just the button 2

[hollow spear]

I think their new season releases in one or two days and nobody cba to play the last couple days of a now very stale season

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[slender kraken]

Gm fuu

[torn tide]

helo fuu

[vestal escarp]

(it's legit)

[north garnet]

Heyhey! morning

[short radish]

\o happy new year fuu. hope you get rich

[keen dome]

Happy new year! I hope everyone gets rich, too

[haughty mural]

I also hope you get purple.

[keen dome]

I'd buy a purple shirt for work, but the connotations aren't good.

[vale pine]

thanks, hope the best for you too

[tribal blade]

HAPPY CHINESE NEW YEAR

the entire chinese side of my family is over today

[hollow spear]

Happy Chinese new year

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-new-year-2026-happy-new-year-2026-horse-fire-horse-gif-4760946882155486579

[keen dome]

horse

[vale pine]

happy chinese new year too, to everyone

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[knotty depot]

why this macro for DS?

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

[tribal blade]

#subtlety-faq message

[harsh meadow]

gm

[knotty depot]

yeah sorry missed some new weird stuff

[clever delta]

so how we looking chat

surely rogue fun and strong beside this two button rotation

[swift tinsel]

Every spec be a two button rotation so we’re vibin

[lilac stag]

We’re back to the usually suspects in here post nerfs.

Rogue dead
Devourer king

[fleet wharf]

I mean like what haptics said, every class is 2 button rotation

what's there to stay for

[swift tinsel]

Idk I find it funny people think the simplification is unique to subtlety

[lilac stag]

That’s been what we’ve been saying for a month. Just no one wants to listen.

[swift tinsel]

It’s literally every spec in the game

[fleet wharf]

it happened to me, so it's special!

depressingly common amongst ppl lmao

[swift tinsel]

If you look at them all, there’s almost the same number of rotational abilities

[lilac stag]

Assa has more buttons and even less braincells needed

[fleet wharf]

usually get dressed up better than that, but so much of ppl bitching comes down to that

[clever delta]

leveling next week

cant wait

[swift tinsel]

Most fun content

[clever delta]

have 3 rogues prep for fun

[fleet wharf]

for all of 8 hours?

I haven't touched much of beta, but I really hope sub is more engaging than assa or outlaw

[clever delta]

its not

outlaw was fun on beta

[swift tinsel]

Very few specs are actually engaging

[fleet wharf]

is there any melee spec that escaped this 2 button rotation?

[swift tinsel]

Nope

[fleet wharf]

I heard arcane got gutted too right?

[clever delta]

well outlaw have lot of buttons

[swift tinsel]

Eh

[fleet wharf]

I might unironically be an outlaw player for s1 of midnight ig

[swift tinsel]

SS, PS, Dispatch, BtE, RtB

BF/BR, AR

[fleet wharf]

dude, thats like 200% more things to track

[clever delta]

they did not remove any outlaw buttons

[fleet wharf]

pog

[swift tinsel]

We have BS, Strike, Evisc, Storm, BP, Sectech, Dance, Blades

Can add KiR and KS to outlaw

But not always taken

[tribal blade]

i feel like they should have taken away killing spree

[tulip light]

I can’t wait for all the „my spec is two buttons why are my parses green“ posts in a few weeks LOL

[clever delta]

and prep

[tribal blade]

the button sucks

[fleet wharf]

but they just added it last season

[tribal blade]

and just added the trickster effect to blade rush

[fleet wharf]

imagine all of that wasted dev time if they remove it

[tribal blade]

oh yeah but it still blows

it's really weird

[fleet wharf]

I'm not arguing with that lol

[tribal blade]

but yeah they did put time into it

[swift tinsel]

Yeah esp now that it’s a rotational button that sees lots of use

[tribal blade]

yeah!

[clever delta]

im will level each rogue up in different spec

[fleet wharf]

I'm actually so shocked they brought back prep

[clever delta]

main will be outlaw since he is only one with OL gear 😄

[swift tinsel]

Esp bc this incarnation of prep sucks

[tribal blade]

...and gave it to outlaw instead of sub

[fleet wharf]

what do you mean, it's always been an outlaw rogue ability. sub doesn't exist in ba sing se

[tribal blade]

/cry

[swift tinsel]

Gave it to outlaw but doesn’t benefit from RB

With a 4min cd

Lmao

[fleet wharf]

that would make too much sense lol

[clever delta]

outlaw is shit in prepatch correct?

i did not see it on logs 😄

[fleet wharf]

idk it's prepatch

[tribal blade]

no idea tbh

[fleet wharf]

all I know is I am like 3rd from back since they merged prepatch to beta

[swift tinsel]

Yeah basically if you aren’t devourer you’re invisible

[clever delta]

i can see myself on meters as sub atleast

[tribal blade]

i haven't done a single key on prepatch

[swift tinsel]

Same no keys no raids

[clever delta]

we do boost once a week

every monday

[fleet wharf]

I think it's generally good for the health of guilds to have some reason for raiders to sign on to wow even when there's nothing interesting to do

[swift tinsel]

I’ve spent the most time during prepatch just making a mostly-functional UI lol

[tribal blade]

same yeah

[clever delta]

yeah i feel same about it, its not good to not play for 1/4 year

[tribal blade]

usually sell dimmy, sometimes queen and gally too

[fleet wharf]

I spent more time than I wanted on trying to get arcui to work, it still isn't great

[clever delta]

we already had big xmas break like month

[lilac stag]

Love arc

[swift tinsel]

Same, been tweaking it almost daily

[fleet wharf]

but in the downtime, I did finish expedition 33, pretty fun game

[fleet wharf]

I don't log on enough to fix it now

it's a problem for future me

I'm sure he will be grateful

[swift tinsel]

I’ve been on a balders gate 3 kick lately since I got it and never really dug in

[fleet wharf]

I keep getting stuck on act 1, like motivation wise. I should try it again

[swift tinsel]

That’s where I am atm lol just venturing all over and finding places I shouldn’t lol

[fleet wharf]

yea, that's the benefit of that game. So much freedom. maybe too much for me personally

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I accidentally went a bit further than I knew I should and can’t fix karlach’s infernal engine until act 2 now

It’s fun though, running a death domain cleric and having a blast

Toll the Dead is one of my favorite spells so getting to hit twice as many targets with it is nice for me lol

[fleet wharf]

I kind of want to get into doing dnd but it's kind of hard to find a group where I'm at, and I dunno if trying to do it with an online group is worth the hassle

[swift tinsel]

I was actually looking at doing one shots online bc there’s a dm-finder site that’s pretty easy to use

Since you don’t have to commit bc it’s just one-off adventure and can use it to network

[fleet wharf]

that sounds like a decent plan, what's the dm finder website called?

[swift tinsel]

I think it’s startplaying.games or something like that

You do have to pay per session but it’s not much

Usually like $20

[fleet wharf]

that is a pretty interesting system. good incentives ig

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, and if the dm is good and sessions flow well then imo money well spent

[fleet wharf]

yea, it does feel a bit pricey when you compare it to video games, but if your point of comparison is like a movie, this is a very good starting point

[swift tinsel]

plus I think its a way to incentivize people to actually show up and not waste other people's time

since you're monetarily invested

[fleet wharf]

yea, for sure. that and being DM is usually a thankless work, and this looks to address that

[swift tinsel]

for sure yeah

[bright sundial]

Man went to the arms dis, it's pure sadness over there

[graceful osprey]

How low is arms right now?

[fleet wharf]

do numbers even matter right now? like there will be quite a few more tuning patches before mythic raids are out?

[granite river]

probably, theres like two weeks between early access, plus heroic week, then mythic raid release

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1404607648367775854/884dae019b604034a488bde11a71bd29.gif

they made this banger tho lmao

[bright sundial]

Well from critcake on beta it's bad no rage and dmg un st and aoe it's ok but there a short of him vs an arcane and demo

[swift tinsel]

respecting their game

[exotic steeple]

do we shadow dance for coup de grace for extra combo point?

outside of opener

or is it always sec tech

[torn tide]

LMFAOO their own discord made this?? its truly over

[swift tinsel]

so many banger gifs of Armsless Warriors over there

[torn tide]

theyve truly accepted it

is arms warrior's nerf as bad as mage's or lock's nerfs?

[azure thicket]

udk got turned into a vegetable?

[tepid trellis]

sectech

[swift tinsel]

we're all veggin' it up

[harsh gale]

do we think sub rogue is still the go to raiding spec

[swift tinsel]

uhdk only has like 1 different button in aoe vs st

replace dc with epi and thats it lol

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-mushroom-punch-mushroom-mom-mushroom-man-gif-1049630644776974220

they don't have gifs of the lil guys vibing but lmao

[swift tinsel]

Imma still play a bit of it tho bc I'm a necro stan

[warm marlin]

pretty much always is

[lilac stag]

When does mythic raid start? Come back then.

[warm marlin]

don't know the fights exactly since i didnt test but i dont remember there being any important execute

and most fights have adds so sub

[lilac stag]

Until outlaw or assa are overtuned from bug fixes or some dumb shit

[vestal escarp]

Tbh if i have to doompost lowkirkenuely i'd think that if sin isnt overtuned in its niche I'd say rog altogether is not a good spot for M raiding anymore

[lilac stag]

None of it matters until mythic week

[vestal escarp]

Sub lots its thing, it's just another generic melee now

[warm marlin]

meh sub still has st/aoe burst and assa execute is still good

[torn tide]

whatt nah

[lilac stag]

What thing did sub lose?

[vestal escarp]

[swift tinsel]

umm

interesting take

ig

[lilac stag]

They flattened all burst an now sub has burst every 20 seconds. lol

[warm marlin]

90s burst is def way weaker but i havent looked at enough other specs to know if sub's is relatively weak

[torn tide]

crazy stuff from someone that says "lowkirkenuenly"

[azure thicket]

s tier spec

sorry

[torn tide]

exactly

[azure thicket]

had to get one in lol

[warm marlin]

also like you still have atro so who cares

[lilac stag]

Everything is weaker. Everything that was using prism doesn’t have an alternative. Our dance burst in general is still crazy high compared to the standard 45 / 90 / 120 specs

[sour horizon]

Wtf does that even mean

[lilac stag]

still at the mercy of tuning ofc

[warm marlin]

yeah supposedly ww has pretty high burst with their cds still or something

maybe that was wrong

[torn tide]

exactly its very very stupid, idk what the brainrot is these days

[warm marlin]

but obviously the potion is insane

[warm marlin]

lowkey

[lilac stag]

Potion was kneecapped was it not

[warm marlin]

well it was halved

it went from a 20+ stack prism to a 10 stack

[torn tide]

people be laughing and going nuts over 67 too like what

[warm marlin]

still pretty good

[chrome palm]

prism was a tuning thing we honestly were more bursty in s2

[warm marlin]

tww2 tier set

my goat

[chrome palm]

especially with opener sub was a demon for like 30s

[vestal escarp]

Double coup was way stronger

[torn tide]

i still believe that apex talents will be our saviour

[vestal escarp]

S3 set was like 30% dps

[lilac stag]

no sense comparing s2 to s1, s3 is what everyone is looking at as far as where are my buttons and my burst

[chrome palm]

s2 set was also insane

[vestal escarp]

On ptr sure

[warm marlin]

s2 tier set literally didn't do anything outside cds

it was full burst

[lilac stag]

what you want our 8 backstabs buffed?

[warm marlin]

no im saying it was goated for burst which was good

[graceful osprey]

If backstab got its classic attack sound, I could be tricked to thinking it did a lot more damage

[vestal escarp]

You still got stacks outside dance

[warm marlin]

ye but u didnt want to lose them

[lilac stag]

Prism gameplay / burst felt better than s2. I get the burst was higher.

[warm marlin]

so u minimized casts outside dance

[chrome palm]

they are pretty close looking at logs but i think the extra dance from double coup gives you a little more damage outside of blades

[covert imp]

Looking forward to midnight s1 pressing 5 buttons

2 buttons every 90s

1 button every 25s

[swift tinsel]

welcome to midnight

thats every spec in the game

[lilac stag]

go play something else and get back to us on button count

[covert imp]

Pirate specc actually fun

But never good in raid

[lilac stag]

go have fun then

[chrome palm]

i have been trying ff14 its really the opposite approach to midnight in terms of being playable without addons

[lilac stag]

Don’t be a shitter at it and you can raid on it

still highest tuned spec to date

[torn tide]

lmao now people cant complain that something is too difficult to learn

[chrome palm]

if you thought fotm was bad

now in midnight every spec you can master in a day, theres no reason not to reroll for m+

[void ocean]

whaddup kings

[swift tinsel]

yep and leveling is warp-speed if you aren't using a boost

[warm marlin]

crest grind gonna be crazy though

[chrome palm]

yeah thats really the only thing

for me personally valorstones were the handicap but in midnight the crests are insane

[magic cliff]

dk 90s goes kinda crazy

[chrome palm]

surely they increase crafting cost to 100 right

[warm marlin]

turboboost letting you transfer valorstones made it ok

[covert imp]

Hopefully apex talents make specs feeling more fun

Haven't tried beta yet

[chrome palm]

currently crafted myth gear is just way better than anything else

crest wise

[warm marlin]

ye the fact that crafting is better than upgrading a mythic weapon

[chrome palm]

they increased the crafting cost on everything but mythic pieces

[torn tide]

is it alot more per dungeon run now in midnight?

[chrome palm]

yeah we arent getting a max ilvl mainhand until like 2 months into the season man

[lilac stag]

Shouldn’t that make alt / reroll gearing easier?

just pop on crafted

[chrome palm]

yes

since you did that anyways

[warm marlin]

theyre gone jim

[chrome palm]

it probably gets increased to 100

[warm marlin]

valorstones got murdered

[magic cliff]

i suspect the crafting thing is an oversight fwiw

[chrome palm]

but if it doesnt you just craft all your good pieces

[lilac stag]

I’m ok with them slowing down max ilvl hitting

[magic cliff]

itll be 100 before long

[torn tide]

oh yeaa now its gold instead of valorstones isnt it

[chrome palm]

idk its just more drip feeding you power

time gating is annoying

when its over like 2-3 months

[warm marlin]

you still won't have max mythic weapon for along time even if its 100 vs 150

[magic cliff]

should just be 10-15-20-25-30 tbh

[warm marlin]

not like you're going to upgrade offhand

[lilac stag]

it’ll keep the challenge for the HoF people and naturally nerf the raid

[chrome palm]

honestly if they kept this and got rid of turbo season it would be great

'ate turbo

[magic cliff]

if they do turbo too thatll be omega cursed

[warm marlin]

man if turbo happens and upgrades are 60/70

[magic cliff]

dinars and crest unlock good

but yeah no shot im farming 1000 crests month 3

[chrome palm]

this part is kinda cool but it does penalize you like crazy for not getting raid vault drops

like even worse than before and it was already insanely bad

[lilac stag]

I still think they only view vault as a loot box rng. Not actually part of their gearing plan. Just a consolation prize.

Could end up with a white elephant

[chrome palm]

nah they play with the ilvl in vault too much for them to not view it as gearing

[lilac stag]

until there’s a vendor for raid after 1-2 months it’s all lulz

[lilac stag]

More for m+ focused players I think to keep ilvl going

[chrome palm]

im pretty sure they nerfed tier drops in undermine

almost everyone takes tier first week

[lilac stag]

since we’re not going to see mythic loot at end of dungeon

[chrome palm]

so it has a huge effect on early tier sets at minimum

[lilac stag]

I do think it’d be cool if first m+ loot you got in a +10 or whatever was mythic track, but then the trading and shit becomes an issue.

Just 1 item a reset from m+

[chrome palm]

different people want different dungeons for their m+ drop then

so im not going to do taz with you on my rogue because i dont want a dogshit taz item

even if youre a dh and you want the ticking sac

[lilac stag]

You can also have nearly a full mythic team in 4pc by end of 2nd raid week

[warm marlin]

hardmode was kinda goated if it had entire dungeon pool loot

[chrome palm]

i did hardmode every week never failed it

i got a single upgrade crest save on one item

i dont wanna see any hardmode again for a while

[warm marlin]

we bricked like first 4 weeks in a row

[chrome palm]

youre already cheating with subtlety man

[plush roost]

Nothing like week 1 hardmode

5 target dummies on dragon boss

[warm marlin]

our comp was uhh

not the best

[plush roost]

20% scent

[chrome palm]

this was elite

[plush roost]

Arcane mage

Kaboom

[warm marlin]

scent????

[chrome palm]

assa 💀

[warm marlin]

not like this...

[lilac stag]

just afk for 18 stack sub evey boss

[plush roost]

I mean weak 1 with no prism bro? Just play scent

[warm marlin]

7 supercharger cuh

[chrome palm]

oh i forgot

bro got prism week 20

[warm marlin]

and coup and 14sht and unseen blade cheese

[plush roost]

XDDDD

[chrome palm]

"lily isnt that bad guys!"

now i remember

[plush roost]

U can get 7 supercharger on assa bruh

[magic cliff]

bingus mech abuse challenge impossible

[plush roost]

Just shiv

While people farming

Their 18

[lilac stag]

imagine pressing shiv

Couldn’t be us

[hazy breach]

Sure but 3 sectechs & 4 coups in blades

[plush roost]

Idk i wanted to be an assa

A lil assassin

Coping

[hazy breach]

Fair enough

[chrome palm]

did you do hardmode like day 1 or something

before it got nerfed

[plush roost]

Also hey lily wasnt that bad, i ended up playing it end of season with prism

[warm marlin]

real

[plush roost]

I think we did it on thursday?

Idk when nrrfs were

[chrome palm]

i remember when i got my tier set, as assa the next day i logged in for keys and was doing like -10% dps than i was before i got my set

i thought the set was bugged or something

[torn tide]

oh shit forgot its maintenance rn

[warm marlin]

can't recommend brew/mw/spriest/hunter/sub for dragon boss btw

bro got hands

[torn tide]

rip the mages and locks

[plush roost]

Thats cause it was bugged!

[plush roost]

Rip momentum

[chrome palm]

rip momentum rip caustic rip singular

[lilac stag]

rip melee

[azure thicket]

we had a havoc who was 99 parsing in s2 at the start of the season so rip not sub
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/malganis/Shortshorts?zone=45

[plush roost]

Bro that boss has insane hands even with a good comp

[warm marlin]

no shaman + mw/hunter as only 2 raid buffs + no good aoe roots

[plush roost]

We also were morons and put all the dummies on the shore so we could "kill the pirates fast"

[chrome palm]

our priest mc'd a guy on that boss and when the mc broke he had giga haste buff and rocked our tank

[warm marlin]

what is this

[plush roost]

Mfw i get meleed for 90% hp

And EVERYONE panics

[warm marlin]

also it wasn't even a comp issue

just got baited by beta videos of them killing the dudes with mechanics

turns out when u just let spriest/hunter kill the dudes

its very easy

[plush roost]

Yeeee that was our plan

Just kill them 5head

[warm marlin]

maybe use the spread cleave niche you are provided not trying to cc them with back to back rop into spriest tendril root

or hoping blind hits all of them

[plush roost]

"Wait a second these guys only have 90m hp!"

[warm marlin]

imagine us watching a guild group with druid/shaman do it

and they just have mass entangle and earthgrab for every set

[plush roost]

Man... 9 days till midnight btw

Is beta gonna be running or will it be kaboom

[graceful osprey]

Is it really???

[chrome palm]

its still like

[plush roost]

Idr how it works

[chrome palm]

4 months until we get to raid tho

something like that

[warm marlin]

heroic week starts march 17

[plush roost]

Yeee

2 weeks of professions and dirt farming my prebis (instantly replaced on server reset)

[azure thicket]

👌

[chrome palm]

i will be dooming when i dont drop my veteran track prebis