subtlety

[iron whale]

ethereals instead of haranir

[narrow shadow]

I was hoping for a voidblade spec

[iron whale]

voidreaver spec, would have hit so hard fml

[iron whale]

YES

[wispy pebble]

With the DS aoe buffs are we still running trickster for M+?

[iron whale]

I'm forced to limit my voidreaver fantasy to Subtlety rogue, which just isn't ot

[lilac stag]

If your LC is giving a hunter a dagger over a rogue your guild is the problem. Ain’t no one giving a 1H sword to an outlaw rogue over a DH.

[uneven scarab]

Trickster always still

[wispy pebble]

ty!

[sullen hare]

Shame we only shipped with one set of hero talents

[uneven scarab]

Its wild isnt it

most other specs can atleast swap between like an aoe/st set

ds just kinda blows always lol

[sullen hare]

And not even good blow

[uneven scarab]

[sullen hare]

It's all teeth

[lilac stag]

More like 1/2 of one of the two sets.

[sullen hare]

"I'm gonna make it so dry for you"

"Um no? Please don't do that Deathstalker"

[uneven scarab]

Ds is that weird dude in the corner of the bar that you arent so sure about

[torn tide]

what actually made sub atart doing tank damage btw? couldnt have been that 8% nerf

[iron whale]

I'm still playing ds just for the aesthetic, thank god im just a filthy casual

gives me some extra purple void fantasy

[red vortex]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[broken seal]

naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah comon we will have to play trickster for M+ to get a bit more dps now?...

[vale pine]

you can play both

its rly no diffrence

i would suggest trickster

because you can macro bp and coup

so its easy to play

[broken seal]

I find DS is more Sub vibe and also a bit more tricky sooooo

actually I think ill play DS until trickster become too important

[vale pine]

they play the same

[swift tinsel]

trickster doesn't have to deal with Mark, big check in the W category

[tame terrace]

imagine if the mark could get parried

[uneven scarab]

I got news for you

[tame terrace]

🙂

none of this wouldve happened if they just kept sbs as it was in sl beta

[uneven scarab]

mannnn old sbs

so fuckin good

[tame terrace]

they should redo undead racial and make it flesh crafting

[uneven scarab]

Yo thats actual a giga brain idea

yes

Undead racial has been shit for so long

[tame terrace]

turn canabalism into flesh craft

let us have 2 combat racials

[slate marlin]

that would be huge

what 2 combat racials? touch of the grave does less dmg than /spit

[graceful osprey]

I choked on my coffee reading this thanks lol

[vale osprey]

Hol up are we playing trickster in ST on prepatch now over DS?

[round latch]

wouldnt be that bad to change cannibalize with fleshcraft

[vale osprey]

Which talents are we playing someone save me

[hollow forum]

Look #subtlety-faq

[vale osprey]

We're playing trickster then?

[hollow forum]

idk i copy what it says xd

[uneven scarab]

Trickster yes

[vale pine]

don't give them ideas

[vale pine]

both are about on par now

[formal jacinth]

Yo best race for rogue for mid igth is still NE ?

[hazy breach]

Hasnt been NE for a while

[uneven scarab]

orc

or whatever looks cool

GG

[hazy breach]

But if you want whats simming the highest its mechagnome, as it is for pretty much all other classes at the start of an expac

[formal jacinth]

Humm so play whatever then

[velvet jay]

for aoe, do I use Coup the Grace if it's up? or only black powder and secret techniques?

[vale pine]

the usual options are always good

dwarf, orc, human

[alpine wraith]

always human

[vale pine]

its personal decision, but i could not bring myself to play this abomination of a race starting with "mecha"

[alpine wraith]

diaper baby

[formal jacinth]

Ya same

Used to be a human player

Was ez back then

[velvet jay]

Does anyone know? ^^ cause atm in M+ I do Coup the Grace in aoe packs when it's up, but I wonder if it's better than black powder

[maiden oar]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[alpine wraith]

i was undead then blood elf then human then blood elf then back to human

[hazy breach]

You always use coup yes

[velvet jay]

Thanks

[alpine wraith]

coup does nimble so it is very strong

[formal jacinth]

Human cause of the spirit that gives all stats

?

[alpine wraith]

it just gives raw stats yea used to give more rep but they took that off

[uneven scarab]

the raw stats is what your after from human ya

double hs is pretty nice too tho

[lilac stag]

A tier transmog

Still not S tier like VE/BE

[graceful osprey]

I’m still undead coping that blizzard will change undead racial to be good

[lilac stag]

underwater breathing now also works out of water.

[uneven scarab]

thats a great one

[lilac stag]

Classic blizzard

[shrewd lantern]

ehh human mogs are better than velf

elves too tiny

[lilac stag]

it’s ok. You can be dead ass wrong.

[shrewd lantern]

Though velf getting a 50% discount is less big

nelf has a better elf model if you ignore the female nelf hand size

[lilac stag]

that’s like saying ignore mechagnomes legs

wtf are these takes

[shrewd lantern]

I mean do people stare at character hands.

velf just is too small in some mogs

Better race than belf in every way overall.

[lilac stag]

Your mog sucks then.

[shrewd lantern]

[swift tinsel]

nah elves too dainty

[shrewd lantern]

I mean some rogue mogs look good as elf

but they're way too fking small for alot of mogs

[swift tinsel]

human model looks better for transmog

also no weird shoulder floating

like nelf has

[shrewd lantern]

or play dracthyr and be a female human with horns

[narrow shadow]

Bro wtf humans look like gorillas

[uneven scarab]

Wtf no

female human is bis

[slate marlin]

weird way to type undead

[uneven scarab]

female undead is close second

[slate marlin]

second to no one u mean

[narrow shadow]

I think I'm weird because I like playing male characters

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-right-idk-confused-i-dont-know-gif-11841537078266264630

[spice matrix]

me orc male

[uneven scarab]

I think it just depends on race

[slate marlin]

yep, depends on race

and class

bc i wont play a male tauren rogue

[uneven scarab]

Ya..

[slate marlin]

i would play a male tauren fury

[swift tinsel]

wouldn't play male tauren anything

or tauren in general

not a fan of hooves

so draenei out too

[slate marlin]

one could say you love feet

[uneven scarab]

My bdk swapped to tauren for a season and it threw me off so badly lmao

[swift tinsel]

or troll feet, ick

[uneven scarab]

dude was bigger than the mob packs he was pulling

[narrow shadow]

You wouldn't play a female tauren rogue either

[slate marlin]

ofc not. i play undead

superior race ya know

[narrow shadow]

I like male undead

[uneven scarab]

Male undead bdk

thats swag right there

[narrow shadow]

With the onyx sunglasses

[swift tinsel]

I think altogether my rogue has been undead, human, belf, nelf, worgen, orc, morc

[uneven scarab]

Human undead and orc

[narrow shadow]

The worst males are human and night elf

[graceful osprey]

I’m still waiting for those massive bulky dragonoids

[uneven scarab]

are all mine have ever been

[swift tinsel]

ye male nelf has literal orangutan arms

below the knee lookin ahhh

[cursive vapor]

Im playin male nelf even tho animations are bad but got used to it

[narrow shadow]

I think they did them dirty

They are cool lore wise

[swift tinsel]

their proportions are just wacky

[narrow shadow]

They are supposed to be agile

[swift tinsel]

and human male is too bulky

[narrow shadow]

Yet look so stiff

[shrewd lantern]

who plays male

[slate marlin]

human male is cool

[narrow shadow]

Human male looks good as warrior

But that's it

[swift tinsel]

yeah thats it

[slate marlin]

but too basic for a mmo imo

[cursive vapor]

Somehow i dont like male human running animation

[swift tinsel]

if you could Slider body types that'd be sick

[uneven scarab]

if i could have the tiptoe goblin stealth animation on human female

PEAK

[shrewd lantern]

People play male human unironically

or male elf

weirdo

[swift tinsel]

idk I like female belf stealth creepin and the crouch

[narrow shadow]

Male Kul Tiran rogue

[uneven scarab]

[vale pine]

female undead animations are bis

[shrewd lantern]

there's like

[swift tinsel]

agreed

[shrewd lantern]

3 good male races

orc troll undead

[swift tinsel]

female undead have THE best melee animations

[vale pine]

sadly, the damge output of undead is everything else than bis

[uneven scarab]

Dude the backflip or whatever when you finisher

PEAKKKKK

[shrewd lantern]

If you play male orc straightback

you're wrong though

I don't make the rules.

[uneven scarab]

You MUST play hunched orc

that is a fact

[swift tinsel]

orc male shoulders are bigger than most character models in their entirety lol

the mogs look so bad

[shrewd lantern]

true the hunch is just

the defining part

[swift tinsel]

hunch is og

ye

straight back looks like they're trying to fool you that they're not orcs

not fooling anyone

[shrewd lantern]

If you play male elf i can't take you seriously

either 12 or 50

[cursive vapor]

Ok

[swift tinsel]

male belf looks pretty decent for transmog but their animations are just

all bad

[shrewd lantern]

even male velf is better

[swift tinsel]

stances are worse

[shrewd lantern]

because you actually have a beard

[swift tinsel]

the behind-the-back 2h animation shit looks like the tackiest ever

doofy rp shit

[vale pine]

peak is a good game, i haven't played in a while

[swift tinsel]

I tried it, just not for me

[uneven scarab]

peak is fun, i wanna try that other friendslop game where you like hide bodies in the icu or whatever

[shrewd lantern]

Hold on there's a great infographic for orcs.

[uneven scarab]

sounds pretty cool

[distant sage]

WHERE CAN I STEAL OTHER PPL UI’s I CANT DO THIS ANYMORE

https://tenor.com/view/long-tears-gif-11087877242190144149

[swift tinsel]

you can, just need to steal like 5 import codes instead of 1 lol

which reminds me I'm helping half the guild set them up this weekend

[shrewd lantern]

qaziui

or whatever

[swift tinsel]

if they use that they're on their own lol

haven't touched it

[narrow shadow]

Male Belf are the most human looking proportional race

And have good standing pose for transmog

[shrewd lantern]

male

[swift tinsel]

eh disagree, the offset leaning stance is a little extra for me lol

[shrewd lantern]

if anything female human is

[swift tinsel]

ye

[narrow shadow]

Yes, we are not all femboys these days

[shrewd lantern]

If you're in america kultiran is most accurate

to irl humans

[narrow shadow]

Some of us still identify as males

[tame terrace]

ur not a femboy? wtf

[swift tinsel]

you can identify however you want

[shrewd lantern]

idk male belves are pretty soy if you want to go down that path

[uneven scarab]

Yo wtf

[swift tinsel]

choosing to play female in a game for transmog is peak immersion

[uneven scarab]

shots fired

[shrewd lantern]

Really can't talk "not a femboy" when male belf can barely grow a beard.

Like uhh.....

[narrow shadow]

I don't play blood elf but I think they look okay

[shrewd lantern]

Female orc looks better in mogs

realistically

🤷‍♂️

[swift tinsel]

eh, I'd take female human over female orc

[uneven scarab]

i think they both look real good in leather mogs

[swift tinsel]

the exaggerated back arch, not a fan

[shrewd lantern]

yeah human is up there

[swift tinsel]

but they're close

[shrewd lantern]

female human has the best overall mogs

[uneven scarab]

the mage tower set on a human looks insanely good

[shrewd lantern]

Male orc looks real funny when i bust out the clownsuits

and chase someone down with the kobyss helmet

[lilac stag]

My Patreon

[shrewd lantern]

4.99 or 9.99 a month?

[shrewd lantern]

[chrome palm]

adjust the aspect ratio of your trinket 🔫

[inland glacier]

what's the best hero talent currently, guys? for single target.

[chrome palm]

trickster for everything

[sullen hare]

Ds still in the toilet

Better buff black powder another 8-12%

[lilac stag]

It’s about 12 revisions old now.

[tender dust]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[long burrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

possible silly question but does anyone know off the top of their head how much gold a current-tier raid boss drops? Google does not have helpful relevant info

[tulip light]

what made trickster the better option even for single target / raid now?

[hazy breach]

Precise killer in the deathstalker tree was fixed to be 20%

Instead of 40%

Which is like a 6% nerf

[tulip light]

i see thx

[hazy breach]

Fwiw that happened like 10 days ago

[lilac stag]

Don’t forget the 1% tuning buff to DS

[swift tinsel]

my goat

[finite crow]

outlaw best now no?

[brisk onyx]

[narrow herald]

How much does sub play like the prepatch at 90?

[finite crow]

same just bp spam and 0 st

[brisk onyx]

90% i think

maybe 95% 99% lol

[narrow herald]

May have to bring the rogue back it’s so much fun

[chrome palm]

[lost sundial]

Just a quick question… does versatility bonus damage apply to all of our shadow clones?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Vers applies to all damage you do, regardless

[short radish]

all?

[placid lynx]

hey yall, im gearing my sussy sub rogue and got this 141, whats the best perk for sub? until i get a replace

[short radish]

just use the one that gives crit/vers

or the default one

honestly doesnt matter

[placid lynx]

ty sir

[short radish]

np

your question is about as important as deciding what to have for lunch

so of minor importance in that specific moment, but ultimately fleeting in the grand scheme of things

[warm marlin]

RIP the 20 stack prism potion

gone but not forgotten

(they're still mega strong)

[swift tinsel]

poor Icarus potion

[astral axle]

arcane and warlock outlived the gigabusted potion

[alpine wraith]

TO PIECES

also god bless killing valorstones

best change ever

also kills a bit of gold from circulation too

[sullen hare]

Soooooooo drugs? Yeah. Drugs for dinner.

[swift tinsel]

someone in guild was complaining they can't afford to upgrade gear now just from raiding/m+

[astral axle]

[bleak night]

yeah people complaining that its expensive is weird

its a very tiny amount of gold

my issue is just why does it exist in the first place

we finally had one currency to upgrade shit like it shouldve been all along, then someone from blizzard got the shakes and had to add another

[sullen hare]

Friction at work folks

Everyone loves friction

[swift tinsel]

my guess is its a very common denominator gold sink

bc errbody wants to upgrade gear

[bleak night]

wod was over a decade ago

we dont need everything to be a gold sink anymore

[swift tinsel]

you also get like 1.5k from doing one of the chest activities when earning spark fragments

[bleak night]

enough for consumables and repairs yeah

[swift tinsel]

so if you do 2 of the chest activities thats twice as much!

[bleak night]

insane gold inflation

we must curb this

[short radish]

nah we do

to stop token prices going up

[swift tinsel]

3 Awakening the Machine runs can cover all upgrades

[short radish]

its the same shit as armor repairs

just minor gold sinks

[bleak night]

no amount of gold is worth awakening the machine

but i simply disagree that this needs to be a gold sink

[swift tinsel]

it is when you gotta get your spark fragment to craft

idk I don't see it as obtrusive

[bleak night]

there are more than enough gold sinks already

its not obtrusive, its just silly

[swift tinsel]

its perpetual vs one-time sinks like transmog or bank slots

[fallow glade]

they should add an actual gold sink like osrs

[bleak night]

there are plenty of perpetual sionks

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/sink-door-door-open-gif-17972302231384670022

[bleak night]

real

unironically

it should cost millions

[astral axle]

bro i need thajt gold to buy more canmdles

[fallow glade]

[lilac stag]

Did they actually remove valor stones from beta before the gold change?

[bleak night]

yes

long ago we knew stones were gone

[lilac stag]

I’m just assuming it’s too much work to recode it one currency or there was an error and this was the fix

[lilac stag]

Intended gone or actually not needed for upgrades?

[bleak night]

intended

[fallow glade]

they actually meant to change the upgrade currency to hearthsteel and accidentally made it gold

[bleak night]

or well

idk who the fuck uses upgrade on beta

[swift tinsel]

lmao soon

[bleak night]

idk if it was gone

but it was already confiremd they would not be needed

[lilac stag]

Yeah so if it was intended I’m gonna assume this was way easier to implement

[bleak night]

insane take

[lilac stag]

really? They’re fucking slop coding shit

[austere spear]

I don't mind the change to gold tbh

[cold sequoia]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

find valor. replace gold. Code done. Next

[austere spear]

^

[lilac stag]

Vs actually making sure a two currency system now works with just one

It’s like stealth abilities.

If they actually cared it’s be more than 50g

[bronze hatch]

macro not properly automating coup/black powder?

sometimes shows usually doesn't, is this normal?

[serene notch]

That’s an interesting macro, can’t say I’ve tried something like that.

[lucid jackal]

U should

[lilac stag]

Are you playing trickster?

[bronze hatch]

Yes

[brisk onyx]

If we got 4 stacks EB, still cast tech first in dance right?

[tulip light]

Yes

[light nebula]

If you put the name of the icon you want displayed after #showtooltip it should work

#showtooltip Black Powder

Also shift-f is a crazy keybind for a button you hit every other global in aoe 😂

[tribal blade]

my guildies are playing tbc

and someone just told them "go back to retail"

and they told me classic players think retail players are worse

which is hilarious

[bleak night]

because tbc and classic are hardcore like mmos used to be

ignore the fact that they were successful because they were more casual friendly

[tribal blade]

also ignore the fact that retail bosses are probably x10 harder

[fleet wharf]

what do you mean I need to press more than shadowbolt

[tribal blade]

insane

[fleet wharf]

but to be fair, we are going there.

[tribal blade]

rotation wise yeah

[fleet wharf]

yea, fair point

[tribal blade]

difficulty wise not sure

[grand rivet]

were far away from 15 second mana breaks every 6 mobs

[tribal blade]

we'll see

i'm totally fine with the game becoming easier overall

[bleak night]

i think aff is legit running out of mana in prepatch

[fleet wharf]

I really hope the raids will be fun. I don't have much reason to be pessimistic there, but it would be a bummer if they missed on the first season after gutting rotational complexity

[tribal blade]

max said he finds the fights good

so far from testing

[swift tinsel]

certainly has no stake in that

[fleet wharf]

i mean you can also watch the beta tests, they don't look much simpler than before

[lucid jackal]

The fights seem good but they might be undertuned as the Devs are gonna have to guestimate how good players are going to be with weaker ui reading tools

[fleet wharf]

True, but I feel beta testing has never been a good indicator of how bosses will be in retail anyway. I think ppl thought Tindral would be easy and boring based on beta testing

[torn tide]

guys whats making sub do so little damage?

[fleet wharf]

them merging beta tuning to prepatch where we don't have the scaling/tools that made sub "ok" in beta

not much we can do here, just go play some other games until midnight launches

[lucid jackal]

Prepatch doesn't have apex

Apex is gud, burst windows in raid exist, burst aoe still very strong

The spec still has its application

[torn tide]

ohh so they tuned it to like true midnight except that they didnt give us apex so it feels really weak?

[lucid jackal]

I wouldn't call it really weak rn, But yeah, apex will help it's damage

[chrome palm]

i guess theyre interesting in the way max looks at fights in terms of how you solve them as a raid

i really like fights like nexus king p1 where theres lots of dodging

[tribal blade]

yaeh i think he tells the absolute truth about fights

because they actually listen to him

[chrome palm]

most fights felt like it was a problem for the raid to solve without as much individual play

[tribal blade]

i liked kyveza

[chrome palm]

theres nothing like that in season 1

unfortunately

[tribal blade]

ah damn

[chrome palm]

i liked kyveza too for sure

maybe last boss

but we dont know

[astral axle]

kyveza one of my favorite bosses in the game ever

real good

[chrome palm]

kyveza was really good

[astral axle]

very satisfying to prog

unlike other bosses that tier :))

[chrome palm]

i never got to prog kyveza 🙈 but it was fun on reclear

it was fun trying to kill the other rogue when they put us in the same section tho

[astral axle]

[tribal blade]

it felt like a very clean boss design

visually looked great

and it felt just hard enough without being toxic

[short radish]

kyveza separated the wheat from chaff

fun fight though

[tribal blade]

a lot of wiping to people dropping stuff in the wrong place

also a lot of wiping to people not being able to dodge

[short radish]

yeah

felt very similar to painsmith tbh

[tribal blade]

i thought i would be boned playing at 200ms and no cheat dodging lines

but i didn't die as much as other raiders on my team

[short radish]

"a lot of wiping due to people dropping stuff in the wrong place, and also people not being able to dodge"

[tribal blade]

haha true

i think painsmith was definitely more painful to prog

by far

[short radish]

oh definitely

[astral axle]

and ps was far less pretty

[tribal blade]

you wanna talk about a boss that's hard to do with high ms

it was painsmith

holy shit

that was a terrible experience

[brisk onyx]

Does DN on your cdm disappear with a delay? Since yesterday, I've often seen the DN disappear about a second after casting evis, which is a bit annoying

Resolved an issue that could cause players to unintentionally flag for PvP when casting spells such as Mage’s Ice Lance or Rogue’s Secret Technique.

FINAL

[dry plank]

Yes same. I have 20-30ms ping and DN disappeare usually second late

[tepid trellis]

Now imagine the pre nerf version of both

[maiden oar]

final boss voidspire

calling it right now

i wish i got to do kyveza and court and ansurek

[vale pine]

🫡

[alpine wraith]

bosses like uu nat or etraeus must have been crazy with high ping

[native zodiac]

That's the first time ive heard someone call star augur etraeus

That jadefire boss in bod was also ass with high ping

[tribal blade]

TRUE

i don't remember what prenerf painsmith was like, but prenerf kyveza was something

running 1 tank and saving a bres for when they inevitably die to have enough dps

crazy

[warm wagon]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[sly shore]

biggest change in 10 years

so annoying

[brisk onyx]

ye

[sly shore]

I remember during the diablo event

going into stormwind

and sectech

and getting fucking obliterated

[brisk onyx]

This bug has existed since the birth of tech, and I'm glad they finally discovered it after so long

[lilac stag]

Wait did they actually say they fixed it?

[sullen hare]

They probably fixed it because mages complained

[vale pine]

they probably fixed it because it was a pita in the pre patch event

which even without this is a big dissapointment

[lilac stag]

Im just am not seeings notes. Where was this

[vale pine]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/world-of-warcraft-hotfixes-12-february/606453/1

[tribal blade]

not exactly the bug fixes i was hoping for, but it's better than nothing i guess

in before the devs are like "there we go, sub rogue worked on, onto the next"

[sullen hare]

It's also the prepatch where you could teleport people by clicking a portal. Don't know if you saw that one

[vestal escarp]

Woah sectec fixes

[vale pine]

i mean

little fuu does the event with his girlfriend

does world event in the mines

out of the sudden (without shadowstep/strike) falls through the floor

gets disconnect, and after multiple attempts needs to use the "unstuck" feature to fix

then decides, dragon riding is great, disconnects every few minutes because collisions in the event zone are stupid

the event is from a user perspective, even ignoring other issues, not ideal

[vestal relic]

damn thats a really nice way of putting it

[alpine wraith]

imagine being a kid and you just fall through the floor

[tribal blade]

little prophet approves of your message

[vestal escarp]

Would be lmaoing

[tribal blade]

i think that's actually the plot to home alone

[vale pine]

lol

[tribal blade]

except it's the kid making adults fall through the floor

[alpine wraith]

shit game this does not happen in roblox!

[vestal relic]

which one is shittier ? the game made by sa guys of the game filled with pedo ?

[alpine wraith]

if you think there are no pedos in wow i have bad news

i mean all games have them idk why people want to focus what i find funny is the complete ignorance they show tho

0 will to make it better

guess that is the worse part

[vestal relic]

not what i think just the size of the problem is not the same imo

and your right about the worst part

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/pigeon-trap-funny-fall-pugakuorg-gif-12653647328942931391

[vestal relic]

but as customer except not paying i don't see how we can make it better

if corporate prefer to close it eyes to the problem

[alpine wraith]

what you can do is acquire lots of shares and be in a shareholder meeting

to flame their asses

[vestal relic]

x)

[alpine wraith]

might need some millions of dollars

a little loan

[vestal relic]

very realistic

loan that to me ill happily flame them

until they want to adress the issue

[steel ruin]

Tanks are now upset that sub dps is to low in 13+ keys... And I was having a great time before patch day 😭

[brisk onyx]

lol that's right, a friend (AFK around the end of SL) came back to play briefly because of free event, and then decided to go AFK again due to disconnection issues with dragon riding

[lilac stag]

Ironic with your discord tag

[alpine wraith]

damn they caught us

[keen dome]

I don't think most people care about Sub DPS in low keys, or enough to not invite them at this point.

It's prepatch lol

[alpine wraith]

some people will

others just ignore you because you give shit all as buffs

some will tell you others just decline

[sly shore]

This is what pre-patch keys look like

It basically doesn't matter what dps you do you 3 chest everything

[keen dome]

Yeah

I had two DPS doing less than a tank buddy and we still timed a +12 at +2 without any issue

It's just the typical bad player weridos fixating on things they don't understand and can't control.

[alpine wraith]

also if the tank is a bear

it is ok to do less dps than them

blizz put and extra 0 or two on some thin gs

mfrs doing 50k dps

[steel ruin]

Good one 🙂

[finite crow]

Tried outlaw today and i have no clue which is better rn…

[vale pine]

it does not matter

just play what you like

[finite crow]

Dont like any tbh, rogue feels ass after pruning

[glacial eagle]

outlaw has gun
therefore outlaw > the rest

[plush roost]

Prepatch rogue does feel bad agree

[finite crow]

Played the class for its required skill and now i press two buttons

[plush roost]

@lilac stag

Another one

Theres a ton of nuance once u have apex talents dw

[finite crow]

Became incel class along with the rest, just less dmg

[vale pine]

midnight changes the games philosophy around class deisgn

so everything will play like what you discribed

the shift of the game is to satisfy what they assume is their (core) audience

[plush roost]

Meh, people will still green parse on the 2 button spec and wonder why

[vale pine]

if you disslike the direction, its likely that you are not part of the target group

[finite crow]

Ye idk if wow had a new player in last 4 years

[grand wyvern]

literally 50% of the people with green parse by definition 😮

[vale pine]

wow did not grow massively going from player counts

or well statistics

[vale pine]

it might grew because of china re-releases or other things

but going from account age

there is no significant growth

if anything, it shows quite stagnant at a low rate for the last 2 xpacs

with higher growth before that

statistic from: data of azeroth

[lilac stag]

@plush roost long time rogue (3 weeks). now upset. classic.

https://klipy.com/gifs/floppa-discord-rules

[torn tide]

whats green parsing again?

[grand wyvern]

it's the percentile of your dps compared to players of the same spec recorded on warcraftlogs, if you are below 50% it gives you a green color, it is often seen as a proxy for performance and it depends on performance of course but also gear, kill time, mechanics and other shit

[vale osprey]

🤓 ummm actshually I am below 50% but it gave me a GREY number not green 😤🤚✍️

[tribal blade]

what's every apex optimization you're doing atm

[lilac stag]

playing assa.

[tribal blade]

NAAAUUURRRRWWW

[plush roost]

Actually outlaw last night hehe, is pretty good with 2x summarily and all the bte talents

[lilac stag]

how are you able to handle 3 buttons?

[dense geode]

Isn’t apex talent just shadow craft

[lilac stag]

fkn mad skillz mate

[graceful osprey]

I do miss the omega burst damage tho. Soulbinder was my favorite fight just because of numbers everywhere

[hazy breach]

It is what it is, were still bursty but more of it is focused around dance itself

Rather than 90s

[plush roost]

Shadow strike at 5+ sht, shiv at 6+ sht in aoe, apex proccing coup, forgoing strike at 5+ last 2 gcd of dance

[lilac stag]

@plush roost remind me again, what did you want sht bar to show/work?

[hazy breach]

So we would generally be better at bursting down adds on a fight like araz/dimmyp2, but a bit worse on damage amps like nexus king

[graceful osprey]

The 18 stacks of netherprisim + all CDs was Cinema

https://tenor.com/view/jon-hamm-jonhamm-jon-jon-hamm-dancing-club-dancing-gif-9837026988511234852

[plush roost]

Having my sht stacks show how much cp they would fill as a backdrop to my cp bar like this

[lilac stag]

hmm. All you can likely do is a secondary bar to track how may you have. Not the calculation for fills

[plush roost]

Ye thats why i say its somewhat blackboxed, tracking them isnt the hard part its tying it into my bar

[tribal blade]

why exactly did they blackbox it

[plush roost]

They basically did that to everything except maelstrom and dh soul frags

Afaik

[tribal blade]

ahh ok

pretty lame

[hazy breach]

Its more like the opposite, they purposefully didnt blackbox stuff like energy

[plush roost]

But they change addon restrictions every day so who knows what else

[hazy breach]

"blackboxing" is like the entire point of the midnight addon changes, so we dont have another fractillus

[tribal blade]

the inability to track my sht like i did with WAs is bothering me atm

[plush roost]

Ye its like not the biggest deal

[tribal blade]

that's the 1 UI issue i'm having

[plush roost]

I can see the stacks as an icon

Just not aesthetically pleasing to me is all

Like i had someone ask me how i have all these WAs on my beta UI lmao

[tribal blade]

LOL

[plush roost]

Its just ui reskins idk good enough right.

[tribal blade]

max was saying the race is gonna be people in chat asking "i thought they nuked addons"

"are they cheating"

"what's going on"

[fathom adder]

why do you strike at 5 sht stacks?

[hazy breach]

To proc apex

#subtlety-faq message

[plush roost]

Omg so many wa

[tribal blade]

reported to the higher authorities

[fathom adder]

okay thank you, kinda thought only finisher will proc apex

[tribal blade]

may god have mercy on your soul

[hazy breach]

Well you have to use a builder to activate it

[plush roost]

Basically its builder to activate apex, finisher to consume it and refund cp

[hazy breach]

Then a finisher consumes it

[plush roost]

Like shadowcraft of the past with extra steps

[fathom adder]

thank you for the explanation

[hazy breach]

In theory its good so that the refunds arent "random" as they were with shadowcraft

But obviously its a bit janky in practice since we have this optimization

[tribal blade]

i'm not gonna lie this apex is kinda confusing

[hazy breach]

Its just got confusing tooltip

[tribal blade]

i'm not smart so my brain has a bit of a hard time wrapping around it

[fathom adder]

its worded weird yes

[tribal blade]

but yeah i get it fully now

[solemn lance]

This is good to know. Just been doing mythic reclears for mount on prepatch so its mega boring. Excited to try the apex talents out

[hazy breach]

If you press a builder and you have more than 5 sht stacks left afterwards > You get a proc (with a big spell alert on your screen)
Proc makes it so your next Finisher refunds the sht

[tribal blade]

and then that refund is expending CPs so it procs apex 1

[hazy breach]

Yerp

[tribal blade]

very cool

[lilac stag]

Do we think it’s going to actually go live like that is still the question.

[tribal blade]

prophet been busy in housing brain haha

[tribal blade]

i honestly dunno, it seems like it would take not a short amount of dev time for them to adjust it

[hazy breach]

They can make it so it only procs if you actually generate combo points

Instead of being just using a builder

[tribal blade]

that would be good

[hazy breach]

Idk

I dont think so

[tribal blade]

ah ok

[hazy breach]

It would fix it yes

[tribal blade]

because it takes away agency?

[hazy breach]

But then when we want to pool sht

We would sit at 6 cp

With capped energy

Instead of spamming backstab at 7

[tribal blade]

mmm ok yeah

is that the move before dances, you spam backstab at 7 until you have 5 sht, go into dance, cancel aura apex on sectec then apex the next finisher?

[hazy breach]

Yes, but you also dont need to cancelaura it for sectech

[placid storm]

Fingers crossed for the import for sub .)

[tribal blade]

oh shit ok

[hazy breach]

Since you supercharge sectech its kinda fine, and if cancelaura you sometimes end up with sht stacks leftover after dance

Which isnt great

[tribal blade]

ahh ok i see

[hazy breach]

But also if you have premed up when you finish it autocancels the apex (bug)

[tribal blade]

premed bugs yet again

amazing

[hazy breach]

But it doesnt really matter much

[hollow spear]

Quick question

Is cancelling your aura the opposite of aura farming?

[tribal blade]

iseewhatyoudidthere

[lilac stag]

iseedeadpeople

[tribal blade]

that movie traumatized me as a teenager

but still one of my favorite horror movies of all time

[dense geode]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[lilac stag]

@plush roost so yea it would just be a second combo point bar and to me it looks wildly out of place

Instead of just a single icon for it

[vestal escarp]

Thats what i had since amirdrassil

Cp bar for sht

They went purple when i had 7

Rip WAs

[tribal blade]

i just had a number over my CP bar

[lilac stag]

this is what ive got now. was trying to avoid moving tracked buff for each spec, but not a big deal if I need to

[tribal blade]

but the way it was positioned was much better than default UI right now

[hollow spear]

I just guess my cp and finish when I think they're high enough

[hollow spear]

Pretty clean, but why are the buffs not centered?

[lilac stag]

ui likely bugged

[dense geode]

why would shiv work with ancient arts

[vestal escarp]

So you have both the bar with slots and the icon with number for sht?

[lilac stag]

That’s just the icon

Redoing bar now

[alpine wraith]

any cp gen works to proc apex

[dense geode]

but Arts1 say abilities that expend shadow tech

[grand wyvern]

arts4

[dense geode]

so this thing that says bug isnt actually a bug

unless im missunderstanding

[grand wyvern]

i think you are mixing up 2 different effect of apex, first point is generating clones, last point is triggering sht

[dense geode]

Im just asking about the thing on the bug page

it says Arts1 does not trigger on shiv

[lilac stag]

@plush roost that's would be closest I can get it where it would color change the first 5

@vestal escarp ^

[vestal escarp]

Hhmm

I'd have made only 5 slots

Those are what matters for craft anyway

[hazy breach]

Damaging attacks that expend Shadow Techniques to generate combo points have a 15% chance per stack expended to create a Shadow Clone that repeats the attack for 50% of normal damage as Shadow.

Shiv is a damaging attack that expends shadow techniques, but it cannot create a clone that repeats the attack

Is that not a bug?

[haughty mural]

@lilac stag I respect it, and I love what you have done

[lilac stag]

yaeh idk what we're storing ect.

more traditional CP maybe better with sht bar

[haughty mural]

But i hate arcui with a passion

[lilac stag]

only 2 buttons, use rest of brain on arcui learning

[haughty mural]

But I’m on battle shout duty

[lilac stag]

hahahaha

Rip Fr Oz

Of the holy order

[dense geode]

Does shiv expend? If I was 0 cp with 6sht stacks would it give me 7 if i shiv

[hazy breach]

Yes

As it should

Because its a combo point generator

[dense geode]

i see ok

[haughty mural]

After what critcake posted I might aswell

Come into the raid, press shout and go afk

[dense geode]

is that a good thing for us tho would we ever want to use shiv for that

[lilac stag]

oh no, what happened

[hazy breach]

I mean it largely doesnt matter

But it just does less damage

Like its still consuming the sht stacks

But you are not getting any clones from it

So its just strictly worse

[dense geode]

ok

😭

[hazy breach]

But youre not pressing shiv rotationally anyway

So

[haughty mural]

St got so fkd

[sly shore]

you should try orbit

[haughty mural]

Arcane mage does sim 64% above

[sly shore]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/orbit

you just drag abilities with charges onto it and it makes a bar

[haughty mural]

I’ll have a look thx (:

[sly shore]

with charges

[lilac stag]

so ready for rotational shiv

[dense geode]

What bugs u think are really bad rn? I havent played sub in awhile

[hazy breach]

The ones that are bolded in the sheet

[dense geode]

[hazy breach]

But if we just ignore deathstalker theres not much

[eternal wave]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

@vestal escarp 5cp, still counts stacks

[vestal escarp]

Great

Now when it's filled you know you're pressing the finisher 2 times

[grand wyvern]

is this entirely done in arcui?

[lilac stag]

ArcUI + Sensei

[plush roost]

Thats not too bad, but looks weird to me, i think having it fill to 7, backdropping last 2 and having the number directly inside the bar is probably good.

But maybe just a little icon is the play

Im a bit of wang enjoyer tho so yknow

[plush roost]

Oh nice, time to sell your ui for big $$$

[alpine wraith]

big dinocoin situation

[lilac stag]

You can swap out the resource to whatever.

nothing is really attached to anything else.

Raid Leader: so explain to me how your account got banned?

Me: well you see, I started selling a custom UI in the rogue discord and …

[odd sandal]

New to spec. So if I have 10 pts in sht and 2 in combo pts, if I slam an Evis will it be like a 7pt finisher?

[hazy breach]

No

If you have 2 combo points, it will be a 2 combo point finisher

[uneven scarab]

Sht is a mechanic that will give you extra combo points when you use a builder

[torn tide]

i think whats theyre asking is "how much does more points do i get from sht when i use builder while having sht stacks"

if im not wrong it just uses however many stacks it can right?

so if ur at 2 combo points and u have 5 stacks then it becomes 7 combo points?

[swift tinsel]

If you use a builder, yes, but not if you just “slam Evis”

At 2cp

It will add however many stacks to the cp your builder would grant normally, up to a full cp bar

If you have 2 cp and 5 stacks and use backstab, it will grant 1 (from backstab) plus 4 from your stacks so you have 7 cp

[lilac crag]

wouldn't it make sense to put shiv into rotation during blades/dance just based off danse macabre

[hazy breach]

No, because strike does more damage than shiv+macabre

[lilac crag]

ill have to test that, macabre does 420% attack power as shadow damage and there's a bunch of shadow damage amp in the talent tree as well

[swift tinsel]

strike is like 480something% iirc

[lilac crag]

shiv itself does 125%, plus the 420%+ from macabre

[swift tinsel]

also gains multiple % damage mods from talents

it's already been looked into

[lilac crag]

true

[uneven scarab]

The globals are extremely tight in dance, shiv is bad

u want big dam

[swift tinsel]

yep, and strike is big dam

[hazy breach]

Shiv does less damage than backstab or storm

And if you really want you can use one of those, but its not better than just using strike

So why bother

[uneven scarab]

Yeah if macabre was good enough we would be using stab and storm in dance even in st

[hazy breach]

You can use BP on singletarget too if you want, when you dont have supercharger or apex activated and have already used eviscerate, but like, the sim doesnt differenciate the results because theyre so similar, so why bother

[lilac stag]

The sub rogue way. Try to take an effective and simple approach and krangle the fuck out of it.

[torn tide]

oh so it would it be worth counting/tracking my sht then actually?

[uneven scarab]

I mean you dont need to, maybe if you wanna pool some before dance its useful ig

[swift tinsel]

Eh

[uneven scarab]

but you dont HAVE to

[swift tinsel]

If you don’t think you’re capable of reacting to the spell effect

[torn tide]

or does it just use however many that it needs to full the combo points bar

[uneven scarab]

^^

[swift tinsel]

Yes

[uneven scarab]

it uses as many as it can

wont waste tho

[torn tide]

ahh so it wont overflow n get wasted, it just uses what it needs

got it

[uneven scarab]

Yep

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, can only use as many as it takes to fill your bar

[torn tide]

great thanks ill probably just not track it then

[swift tinsel]

You get so many stacks during dance/blades that you proc the apex all the time

[torn tide]

the dps must be beyond insane then with apex

[ebon mirage]

#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/cast Shadow Blades

Anyone got any idea why this isnt working? Doesnt matter if I do /use 13 or if I put it after /cast Shadow Blades either : |

[uneven scarab]

im excited to see the apex visuals if its proccing that much

[torn tide]

honestly i didnt even know what was giving me shadow tech stacks, ive just been going like "oh hey i got a free full bar"

[uneven scarab]

lots of purple farts

[torn tide]

what actually gives shadow tech stacks?

[uneven scarab]

Auto attacks

[lilac stag]

On beta right now you want 5 pooled before going into dance

[torn tide]

well thats pretty simple lol, i dont even needa do anything

[uneven scarab]

for every dance? Or just blades dance

[lilac stag]

Pretty sure every from charrend unless I misread it

[uneven scarab]

Imo makes sense though

when i was playing you started to run dry a lil towards the end if you didnt pool

[lilac stag]

Hence me trying to sort this out

[grand wyvern]

do you still go into dance at low cp with ds and high cp with trickster? in that case do you pool at low cp?

[hazy breach]

You just dont play DS

[uneven scarab]

^

[lilac stag]

Just stop playing DS

ffs

[hazy breach]

But you do not pool with ds

[uneven scarab]

If we all avoid it like the plague MAYBE they’ll do something to it

[swift tinsel]

Like we did TWW?

[grand wyvern]

we avoided for entire seasons

[uneven scarab]

Let a man dream

[lilac stag]

PvP will still play it and fuck us over from it ever getting fixed

[uneven scarab]

Also yeah

[swift tinsel]

Maybe they’ll nerf an undertuned DS tier set again

[uneven scarab]

Pvp plays it always

So blizz is probably thinking its fine

[grand wyvern]

all 10 pvp players

[torn tide]

blizz should be buffing rogue, nobody plays this class its like one of the lowest usage rate isnt it

[uneven scarab]

WOW

[torn tide]

gotta give people an incentive to play rogue

[hazy breach]

If somebody ever presses an immunity

The mark is gone

for the rest of the fight

[uneven scarab]

Hahahahaha

[torn tide]

LOL dont play it

[lilac stag]

Perfect

[uneven scarab]

so again

maybe theyll fix it!

[ripe flame]

gotta love friction ™

[lilac stag]

[uneven scarab]

idk i think WW is lower actually

[torn tide]

ds sounds like its getting destroyed cuz of that bug wtf

[torn tide]

i thought they gave ww a good buff recently

[uneven scarab]

yeah buff but iirc people are not happy playing it rn

[hazy breach]

I mean the reason pvp played it was because eviscerate does like 70% less damage in pvp

[grand wyvern]

they don't press their main ability in ST

[hazy breach]

So anything that buffs finishers generally stink

Sub is generally just a stunbot

[uneven scarab]

Yeah fists sucks right now

which is not good

[ripe flame]

WW has 3x the population as sub iirc

[torn tide]

popping up outta the air and stunning someone like nuts is kinda funny tho

[lilac stag]

Are all melee back to being angry at the same time?

[uneven scarab]

Its another caster patch brother

[vale pine]

its a bit of an irony

[uneven scarab]

back to mage it is

[vale pine]

subtlety was too good in a combo with heavy hitting specs

[torn tide]

warlock time perhaps

[vale pine]

like mage

thats why it was reduced to only do cc more or less

but nobody cares that mage has a ton of cc too and does damage

[grand wyvern]

it's always mage

[uneven scarab]

paying for the sins of pvp as usual

[vale pine]

not that i care, just saying, this feels inequal

[torn tide]

thats funny

[swift tinsel]

Should really just delete pvp as a game mode

[vale pine]

pvp is already a small niche conent

[swift tinsel]

Instead of perpetually neglecting it hoping the player base abandons it as well

[vale pine]

let players have fun

[uneven scarab]

It needs to be entirely separate if anything

abilities shouldn’t even be the same

we shouldn’t suffer because something is broken in pvp

[grand wyvern]

i mean, buttons already do different amount of damage and duration of effects in pvp, it already is another game

[vale pine]

you would usually play other games

if you want a pure pvp experience

[lilac stag]

Just make a tournament pvp realm server. No leveling. no questing. Just arcade mode PvP.

[torn tide]

lmao some players need the thought of beating the shit out of another alive person rather than npcs

[grand wyvern]

the thing is, there are better games than wow for that, wow unique thing is pve

[torn tide]

oh yea i agree on that 100% lol

[uneven scarab]

Pvp in wow is also unique though

[hazy breach]

Can play classic, theres a lot of NPCs there

[uneven scarab]

for the most part

[vale pine]

unique does not mean good

[uneven scarab]

Right, but clearly some people enjoy wow pvp

[torn tide]

sometimes its nice using the stuff i grinded for to go fight someone that has strategy and and actual brain but 90% of my gameplay is just dungeons

[uneven scarab]

Wouldnt exist otherwise

[torn tide]

i just play pvp whenever i have nothing better to do

[vale pine]

pvp was a more central part of the game in the more classic xpacs

[grand wyvern]

my brother, there are people enjoying obscure old games dead for decades still

[vale pine]

the game just survived long enough to still have a community around it

[torn tide]

i remember back then when rogues would camp the shit out of people and be an absolute bully

[uneven scarab]

Yeah thats my point…?

[vale pine]

i don't want to draw comparisons, because i know if i do it would be unfair to pvp players

but lets say they are a small minority with a lot of vocal individuals

pvp being part of wow's esport keeps it relevant

[grand wyvern]

i don't think average gamer even knows wow could be esport outside of the race

[vale pine]

the race is not an official wow event

technically, blizz always states they do no special treatments for the race

reality is, they do A LOT

[grand wyvern]

yet it is more widely recognized than the events blizzard tries to push

esports always only worked when it comes from community grassroots, forcing titles to esports has been proven a bubble

[hollow wigeon]

Yall could always go play Fellowship if you have a problem with PvP

[uneven scarab]

That game is dead already

[vale pine]

i was not understanding the hype around it

and it seems like i was correct on that

[torn tide]

man i cant wait for midnight

surely apex will make rogue become a god if used correctly

[uneven scarab]

If only we got updated clone visuals too

soon surely

[torn tide]

id love the cool visuals

rn the only somewhat nice visuals are when i shadowstrike or coup

[uneven scarab]

Something a bit more sinister looking

than the purple farts

Strike visual is really good imo

i love the like leap thing u do

[torn tide]

releasing the void's gas

[torn tide]

yea exactly its so clean looking

[uneven scarab]

The sound too

[quaint locust]

Is Rogue bad right now?

[torn tide]

peak

[lucid jackal]

On prepatch? Or in midnight?

[quaint locust]

midnight.

[lucid jackal]

Think rogue is sleeper strong

[uneven scarab]

Rogue always sleeper strong

[quaint locust]

It feels way too weak compared to Arcane and Frost Mage

[uneven scarab]

Are u playing with a shaman

[hazy breach]

Yeah but theyll nerf arcane and demo soon enough

[quaint locust]

Subtlety feels dead in raids. Is Outlaw the best spec for raid right now?

[grand wyvern]

prepatch doesn't matter, midnight nobody knows

[quaint locust]

Thx guys

[somber cedar]

Guy told me to not believe the noise and keep faith in my bone rolling

[lucid jackal]

Well Frost arcane demon and DK are like, the best classes in the game

If your comparison for "how good is rogue" when comparing to the actual best specs in the game, then yeah it's ass. But balance patches are on the way still, and also, rogue is surprisingly close either way

[plush roost]

And double dagger survival 8)

[lucid jackal]

But I mean nobody thoght rogue was playable last raid and it ended up being a carry class

So like lol

Ppl are very wrong sometimes

[somber cedar]

Sub and damage amps

[hazy breach]

More like netherprism and damage amps

[uneven scarab]

Going from prism to puzzy b gonna be sad

[hazy breach]

Dont think well be playing puzzlebox

[uneven scarab]

I only know of puz and the haste on use

Not sure what trinkets are really looking like in midnight

[limber ore]

Puzzy B makes me feel sick, I remember it the 2nd time round

[hazy breach]

Theres no strong stat on-uses

Or well, with their budget in the on-use

Like araz or prism, which provide almost nothing passively but massive stats on-use

All the ones in midnight have passive agi, and a minor stats on-use, like puzzlebox

[uneven scarab]

mehh that kinda sucks

[hazy breach]

We are much less reliant on our 90s window as well

Regular dances are strong

[quaint locust]

I guess all we can do is wait with anticipation lol

[unreal musk]

Can we tell by raid testing which spec is better for each raid boss or too early?

[hazy breach]

Raid testing was like 4 tuning passes ago

[unreal musk]

Ohh didnt follow

Thanks

[brisk onyx]

In fact, evaluating strength during beta is completely meaningless. Here's something you might not know: sub was incredibly op during some beta tests, then got nerfed in retail

[uneven scarab]

Yeah that’s definitely true, ill have to look at whats available for passives. I like the idea of our normal dances having more power

[hazy breach]

Gaze of the alnseer+whatever, until they nerf it

[quaint locust]

Thanks, that was helpful

[uneven scarab]

Thing sounds pretty wild

[ivory obsidian]

Idk I have haunting memories of not judging specs during beta cycles.

Then CN opened and rogue and havoc were straight dog shit and I was full hopium they’d be fixed. Never happened. Had to crunch WW gear

[shrewd lantern]

all im gonna say is

people hate on puzzlebox

yet glaze grieftorch

[uneven scarab]

ya cuz when the idiots in my raid inevitably die i get free damage

[hazy breach]

Ye because one has an animation that feels good to press (and looks cool), while the other requires you to be stationary and does the same thing as most trinkets without any animation

[plush roost]

You can move with gt as well

[shrewd lantern]

Moreso that they technically could have made gt an instant cast

[uneven scarab]

Also that

[shrewd lantern]

like the sire trinket

[uneven scarab]

Bring back dreadfire vessel

[hazy breach]

Ofc, but by making it a channel it can do more damage

[shrewd lantern]

Wasn't there one point you couldn't move during gt

[plush roost]

They should make puzzlebox flash a quick time event where u input a random code each time

[shrewd lantern]

[ivory obsidian]

You moved at like 1%

[plush roost]

Could be instant could be 10 second cast