subtlety

[warm marlin]

mechagnomes are a plague

[lilac stag]

Which human animations do you not like?

[maiden oar]

im 3 dwarf

2nd rogue might be outlaw if it doesnt suck

ill decide when i send thhe spark

[lilac stag]

Spoiler: ||it won’t be outlaw||

[maiden oar]

roingus outlaw maybe too powerful

https://tenor.com/view/exercise-pumped-running-wheel-roingus-gif-19827830

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/floppa-gaming-gaming-time-question-happy-gif-25652659

[white scaffold]

I can vouch for Panda

Btw, I am looking on improving my skill as Sub, anything I can do better? Open for all criticism and advice

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9twmVFTNWvkYrM3a?fight=4&type=damage-done&source=29

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9twmVFTNWvkYrM3a?fight=9&type=damage-done&source=29

I know for the Dimmi Kill I could have used Shadow Blades once more on P2.1, thats something I already knew during the pull as well

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[white scaffold]

Mornin Fuu

[sullen hare]

gm

[stone light]

gm. opener question, why do we SS in to eviscerate in our opener instead of SS dance ST?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter either way

But you can do it for slice and dice if you want

[stone light]

oh ok ty

[vague python]

Yeah so I have a question for god

Why is Sub Rogue so fun?

I've never touched it before, seen people saying it's pretty cool

Just tried it in a delve and now I have my dopamine hit for the day???

[short radish]

because sub rogue isn't really that complex

you press the button that generates combo points

and then you press the button that uses the combo points to do damage

so you just mongo bongo

and do damage

dopamine go brrrrr

it's also arguarbly the most "rogue" like of the rogue specs still

where you go in and out of "stealth"

something about shadowstriking behind an enemy mob is fun

it's really good in open world going from mob to mob

[torn tide]

exactly lol its so satisfying to just press the button and slash them in the back

[short radish]

yeah

i hate that they nerf'd the "regen health in stealth"

[vague python]

I normally play Assassination, and it feels really slow and like it's constantly "starving" for resources

Whereas sub doesn't seem to starve until much much later on

And I'm not sure if it's only choking out cause I'm still learning it

[random comet]

Both sub and sin have no energy issues in cds, but sub feels waaaay worse outside cds energy wise to me so idk

[upbeat garden]

I have like 35% on prepatch and 20% on beta,feels fine this way (haste)

[tribal blade]

we're missing a lot of resource gen not having apex atm

[minor sorrel]

sub allways has moments outside of shadow dance where youll be starved a bit

[vague python]

Yeah, found that a little bit in this last delve

Still, as long as I was on top of it I didn't feel like I was falling out too much

This is quite dangerous lol, Rogue was already pushing against taking over my main from Afflock, and that was playing assassination....

[narrow shadow]

Sub is the BM of Melee

[random comet]

Might even be that BM is the sub rogue of ranged now

[fallow nimbus]

The trinity of bm. Fury, sub and bm

Isn't fire mage the cloth bm now?

[short radish]

it's a lot better now that we dont need to get cdr from attacking

because before it would be press dance, kill the mob in 3 globals then sit around holding your dick

[upbeat folio]

Guys how can i know whats the best race for sub for midnight?

[vale pine]

there is no "best race" as it changes all the time

you can sim it for your profile, but it might change

there are some races which end up always good, like dwarf or human

and the diffrence between the "best" and "good" is very low

#tc-research message

if you want to sim

[upbeat folio]

Ye ik but like last season for assassin mag'har orc was dominating

thats why i asked, but maybe mechanome doing good for low stats at start of the expension

[upbeat folio]

ty

[upbeat folio]

in raid especially

[vale pine]

the diffrence to the other good ones was low

[onyx flame]

Undead, there is no other choice

[vale pine]

style wise, yes

dps wise, probably not

[onyx flame]

style=dps just like rgb=fps

[vale pine]

ahh, so i just need to buy a cheap rgb fan when my fps are shit

good to know

[onyx flame]

Exactly

[torn tide]

i always thought the only choice was to try look like Valeera Sanguinar

[onyx flame]

Only the incel bubble

[dry plank]

Panda is best race wdym 🙂

[minor sorrel]

Panda rogue enjoyers unite. Usless racials for usless classes !

but the dr on fall dmg stacking together is nice kinda

i survived a drop from the highest building i dornonghal.

[fringe ruin]

How should i understand new danse macabre?

[vestal escarp]

Random feedback i get in dms

[alpine wraith]

yea

[onyx flame]

„Sub is fucking braindead now“

-XxshadowkillerQt (5/8hc on prepatch)

[cursive vapor]

ping me when hes complaining bout other sub rogues doing more damage than him

[minor sorrel]

ill enjoy trying to max out haste to get 100% shadow dance uptime lol... (i know its not possible or good)

[vale pine]

you already have 50% uptime

thats quite high

[vestal escarp]

They're not wrong and you're not wrong

Whats the point then

[void ocean]

man why u outing me like this

[dry flame]

I tried the new sub yesterday for the first time, yeah, it feels like 30% of the spec is missing, but its not necessarily bad. I feel like wod > legion prepatch it felt worse even from what I remember. We'll be fine

althogh it was funny when shadowstrike TP-ed even in SD, especially in pvp

[fringe ruin]

Maybe it just feels weird because of no apex talents?

I tried to get into outlaw and that one felt incredibly off for me

[iron whale]

question: does Sub need something from Apex to make the gameplay feel more "complete" sorta like Devourer DH?
or is 2 buttons and 0 visuals all there is to it after all

I was kinda stocked for the Midnight changes but... idk, I guess it's so overall underwhelming to both play and watch, like always...
same animation loop, multiple abilities sharing the same animation, same movement, same thing over and over and over again.. no variety whatsoever

[stiff horizon]

hi, when should I use faint?

[iron whale]

when you go into the fray and there's a lot of enemy abilities going around/AoE

[stiff horizon]

On cooldown?

[onyx flame]

When necesarry

[stiff horizon]

hm ok. thanks

[haughty mural]

Please don’t faint while playing the game

[stiff horizon]

Is it like a backup in case you can’t get out of the AoE? You should avoid AoE anyway, right?

[pallid jackal]

Anyone got a good import for raid sublety?

[stiff horizon]

^^

[pallid jackal]

or where I can find them?

[hollow spear]

There's a lot of damage events that you cannot dodge

[keen dome]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[pallid jackal]

Is this for prepatch?

[keen dome]

Yes.

[haughty mural]

Wouldn’t a rank 1 player now?

[pallid jackal]

Wow so we build for 35% haste now?

[keen dome]

Well, you don't have to.

[pallid jackal]

And flagellation is gone?

[tribal blade]

there actually could be a chance it comes back on the next update

after what happened to hpal

[haughty mural]

No way

[tribal blade]

and they said more class updates coming

[tribal blade]

i agree i don't think it comes back

BUT

there's a non-zero chance

[keen dome]

Nah, I don't think so

[haughty mural]

They will rather bring symbols or rupture back than flag I think

[keen dome]

I think Rupture is more likely. Or Symbols,y eah.

[tribal blade]

agreed

[haughty mural]

Or stepsis

[keen dome]

noooooo

[tribal blade]

HAHA nah no way

[haughty mural]

[keen dome]

I think Symbols coming back as a static cooldown (30s?) that does something with crit and damage I dunno

I think it'd fit the hole

[haughty mural]

Or maybe they’ll do something with gwb

[tribal blade]

it would be kinda hilarious if they go "we heard sub is too simple, here's some stuff" and then sub goes back to being super min maxy and hard to understand

[haughty mural]

Tbh I really don’t think there is something coming for us

Not with our share of dev time

[tribal blade]

agreed

[haughty mural]

Maybe they rework frost mage again

[tribal blade]

sub classically gets the lower amount

[haughty mural]

Since the new shatter stuff is disgusting

[mental saddle]

Damage wise how s sub ? Is it underperforming or is it in a decent state ?

[fallow ingot]

I'm playing rogue since 7 years , with the DF talent three i'm a bit lost to know every path / nodes xD so we basicly need to spend 2 more points in this parts to acces the final one in 12.0.1 ? :

[azure thicket]

idk if sod needs to come back/work as a damage steroid tbh

since we're melee it's either we're hitting stuff full send or we're running out/after something

so it's hard to balance

the one upside of energy i guess we're mostly just waiting for cooldowns to line up

[vale pine]

yes

you need 2 more points to unlock the 2nd gate

[fallow ingot]

Thanks, the choices feels weird i tried on live, we can take additional feint charge but idk the last one

[vale pine]

i attached a image showcasing it in the pins

[tulip light]

The thing is if they bring back sod we end up just macroing into dance I’d assume… which is well… changing nothing

[vale pine]

this

[fallow ingot]

Yeah i checked it up

[vale pine]

you can ofc distribute talent points diffrently before

so the gate is unlocked

but i would stick to current talents

[fallow ingot]

What will you take here for the 2 points ? :

[vale pine]

and probably airborn

because it still aoe blinds ^^

[fallow ingot]

What

i'm reading it right ? xD

[shadow lance]

Wowhead calc aren't up to date?

Cuz I can legit take everything

[scarlet heath]

use the 12.0.1 one

[shadow lance]

https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/rogue/subtlety/deathstalker/EAOEFVUVRUVUVJggVCURNVURRFRVFRQWkUBUFFUVEUBA

[scarlet heath]

well that is beta

[vale pine]

they are

[scarlet heath]

where you have extra points

that we dont have

[vale pine]

but you ned to look at the top

the talents you picked

[vale pine]

won't work below level 85

[scarlet heath]

you cant use calculator for 85 lvl

when we have 80

[vale pine]

yes

you can go up to 90

the limit is not there currently

[shadow lance]

Isn't max level 90 on beta?

[azure thicket]

yeah

[scarlet heath]

well he is asking about 12.0.1

[azure thicket]

but retail is getting updated with the beta talent trees

[shadow lance]

And the patch isn't up on retail

[scarlet heath]

retail will have this tree

[shadow lance]

OH, next week

[scarlet heath]

but not all points

[shadow lance]

ok

[azure thicket]

so you can do low keys and kinda see what stuff does

[vale pine]

but you can just pick a layout from the templates and it will be updated for the patch

[shadow lance]

I got it

Just no changes for midnight,

at max level

[vale pine]

the fun part is

[shadow lance]

And other specs chan wasn't mentionning it so I was kinda not understanding when it was applying ahaha

[vale pine]

we kinda just unlock the remaining dps talents we now have in the class tree

the additional hero talents

and the apex

so 90 is very much like now

just with apex talents

[fleet acorn]

anyone got a skyriding addon?

[pallid jackal]

After one m+ I now see why we need that haste

[vale pine]

you need to stay in melee range

[pallid jackal]

What happened to holy pal?

[vale pine]

auto attacks account for quite some enery/cp income

but haste helps too

[pallid jackal]

And Yeah I think ahving symbols back is a nice addition

[hazy breach]

The regen from symbols was tied into dance

[slate marlin]

they gave them crusader strike back, then reverted instantly bc of the backlash

[scarlet heath]

we need to close the discord

[slate marlin]

thats the cringiest thing you can do ngl

leave that to the paladins

btw with the buffs to mass cassualty do we keep ignoring mark?

in large aoe that is

[tribal blade]

it's worth casting DN now in aoe

[dry plank]

True. Worst case scenario 10 regulars here will discuss Poe/LoL with or other shit 🙂

[slate marlin]

well not ignoring your capstone is good

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/rosé-dance-blackpink-show-gif-21679318

[tribal blade]

yeah good

but from what i hear DS sucks still for aoe

[lilac stag]

but from what i hear DS sucks still for aoe

*fixed

[dry plank]

DS thematically cool tree

[slate marlin]

tuning still incomplete tho

dont jinx it

[dry plank]

Poorly designed and very badly implemented

[lilac stag]

I’m anticipating our eventual 30% BP buff

[slate marlin]

30% bp buff with another 8 aura nerf

[lilac stag]

I wonder when we last had a negative damage aura.

[slate marlin]

idk i didnt get last tuning build

[dry plank]

Every start of new expansion

[slate marlin]

buffing arcane and uh but nerfing outlaw and sub xd

[vale pine]

in midnight ye

[fossil forge]

https://tenor.com/view/yugioh-yu-gi-oh-yami-gif-5341467

[hazy breach]

I haven't spend as much time optimizing it as trickster but rn its looking like -7% and like -15% in st/aoe respectively

In sims that is, could still be stuff that's not interacting exactly as they do ingame

[tribal blade]

still glad to hear tbh

[vagrant fulcrum]

you know it's fucked when people are relieved the tree is simming worse - how long til they rework it

[slate marlin]

what i hate the most is that deathstalker is the most thematic one by far

trickster and fatebound arent imo

[left shale]

Everybody wants reworks always lol. Not saying it’s not needed just that they aren’t going to do them frequently. So maybe next tier? Who knows

[red flame]

The most thematic is playing DS while using “the Death Stalker” title

[red flame]

Tbf DS has been fucked since its creation

[slate marlin]

isnt that title alliance only?

[red flame]

Yep

For slaughtering undead in draenor

500

[slate marlin]

thats very antithematic

[red flame]

I am the death that stalks death

I am death squared

[red flame]

Idk I feel like Fatebound for Outlaw is decently thematic

[tribal blade]

I KNOW RIGHT

it's nuts

[slate marlin]

Probably, its probably just me expecting a pirate hero talent

[upbeat smelt]

Man I tried outlaw for the first time last night and I hated it. It should be renamed Gunslinger, feels like all I did was shoot that pistol.

[haughty mural]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[haughty mural]

got a few dms lately
could we add the coup/bp thing here ? @vale pine

sorry for ping

[slate marlin]

Is the dance ss macro also good even in st?

[azure thicket]

deathstalker is fine on assassination where envenom is the only way to consume marks

it's really not made to be compatible with the current sub design/objectives

[haughty mural]

which ss is it ?

[tribal blade]

shadow storm

[slate marlin]

Shuriken storm

[tribal blade]

duh

[lilac stag]

Storm yes

[haughty mural]

[azure thicket]

but also the logic for what deathstalker is from the hero talents being applied to sub's abilities is just plug and chug whatever fest stuff

burner went out my potatoes

[slate marlin]

I forgot both ss and ss are ss

[lilac stag]

Just for DS though I believe

[left shale]

dont doubt it. havent played rogue since last tier of wod lol. just looking for something new to do when im not being mad at having to play survival. too many classes and too many moving parts. its never going to be good enough .

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-cabbages-gif-5990800

[haughty mural]

thats a first

hearing someone is mad playing sv

[lilac stag]

SV is in a good spot. Hilarious.

[haughty mural]

at the moment

[lilac stag]

all things considered

[haughty mural]

well.. maybe PL hater are mad right now

[lilac stag]

I’d rather not pl, but still better than sooooo many others

[azure thicket]

tier bonuses interacting with hero talents hasn't been done yet

fwiw

[left shale]

not mad at the dam, and its kinda fun. but i rolled my hunter way back because i liked shooting things. back when marks was good.

[red flame]

Having to?

That’s wild

[left shale]

if i want to play im kind of inting playing marrks right now. and i hate petai so i stay away from bm whenever i can.

hard to pass up the damage while it lasts.

[red flame]

Fair ; I pretty much only play rogue

[haughty mural]

same but oh well

[turbid matrix]

Heyguys, I'm tryingto set my sub up but I noticed the cooldownmanager doesnt list many spells like shadowstrike, shuriken storm, black powder. How do I addthem? why do they miss from the list?

[red flame]

Like there’s other specs I enjoy & shi but I’m only putting work into the rogue

[haughty mural]

thye wont let whats going on there through anyway

[hazy breach]

They do not have any cooldown

[left shale]

if i wasnt the only hunter in my raid group id probably swap off to rogue. but cant miss hunters mark now so here i am

[turbid matrix]

eviscerate is there and has no cooldown. I have a feral and rake is there even if it has no cooldown

[red flame]

Lmaooo I’d tell em get to recruiting one 😆

[hazy breach]

The eviscerate is if you want it to show when coup is ready instead of tracking the escalating blade stacks (which you should be doing instead)

But idk i dont see why you would want to track the cooldown of spells with cooldowns

[left shale]

always recruiting but no luck this time around. will wait and see. will spend my time outside of raid on rogue mostly. will keep both up until something changes

[red flame]

Hopefully they let you swap back to rogue

[turbid matrix]

I want the "blinking" spells all in the same place.

[red flame]

I feel ur pain tho, apparently we don’t have a priest now xd

Which is diabolical

4 hunters tho

[haughty mural]

[left shale]

as long as i keep the rogue up on my own there wouldnt be an issue. ive been around long enough that they give mne some leeway

[haughty mural]

no priest 4 hunters

[left shale]

we have 3 or 4 priests lol

[red flame]

At least it’s not 5 boomies again like my last guild

[azure thicket]

man just make darkest night be consumed by sec tec

[haughty mural]

[azure thicket]

and give dsm bp/evis

[red flame]

5 boomies in mythic undermine was just…..

https://tenor.com/view/chuckles-im-in-danger-ralph-wiggum-the-simpsons-gif-14149962

[azure thicket]

cold blood suddenly exists the numbas

[left shale]

the WA i miss the most is the one that said "im in danger" when i hit 20% health. rip

[red flame]

WAIT THAT WAS A WEAKAURA!?!?

https://tenor.com/view/chiraq-lildurk-durkio-chiraqimony-gif-18480709

[left shale]

i made one

[red flame]

[haughty mural]

❓

[red flame]

I can’t believe I’m just now finding out

That’s actually amazing

[azure thicket]

mark is only consumed by evis right now right?

[haughty mural]

no

[left shale]

i made the mistake of leaving it on when i played my monk tank, talk about spammy

[azure thicket]

blizz ui got me messed up my bad :p

[vale pine]

can do later, atm cooking

[red flame]

LMFAO

[vale pine]

^^

[azure thicket]

buh

okay so i got the dsm part mixed up but consuming dn with bp would be neat

[hazy breach]

Yeah but they clearly dont want that

So enjoy casting a puny eviscerate even in huge aoe

[azure thicket]

give us sec tec

[haughty mural]

Yeah they also dont want us to cleave DN with evis as assa is doing with envenom

[red flame]

[haughty mural]

So they decide to just leave DN sucky in huge aoe

for us

[red flame]

It also working off BP & SecTec would be awesome

[hazy breach]

I mean mass casualty is their solution

Which does work, but it doesnt fix the eviscerate feeling like shit. Just it being shit numerically

[haughty mural]

no please not

they would gut sectech into the ground

[red flame]

Idk I feel like any damaging finisher should be able to consume it

Seems like they way overthought it

[grand wyvern]

i am not an expert in game design by any mean but isn't it just passive damage then?

[azure thicket]

give it to kingsbane's inital damage component too

[haughty mural]

turn off the oven

[red flame]

There’s lots of solutions that could work but they just don’t care enough about rogue

[azure thicket]

we ran out of gas ;|

i have to air fry my chicken now

[red flame]

Air fryer >

[dry plank]

They don’t have time for rogue 🙂

[red flame]

So real

Too busy making “home sweet home” shirts/hoodies

[swift tinsel]

Dude those look so piss

[red flame]

Fr tho 😭

[swift tinsel]

Just like the most basic-ass font

[red flame]

Yep & nothing special or distinctive

[swift tinsel]

The only embellishment is the little swirly housing icon thing on the sweatshirt sleeve

[red flame]

Other than the little swirl on the sleeve ig

[red flame]

Yep

[swift tinsel]

Idk if the shirt even has that lol

[red flame]

That’s diabolical

Idk who thought it was a good idea fr

[azure thicket]

not paying the extra to play beta im sure it's good but also

[red flame]

Like ffs they coulda put the rogue from the animated vid on it

I woulda bought that

[azure thicket]

hopefully 5/5 place talent points here stuff gets trimmed better in the future

[tender dust]

what about

[azure thicket]

i think cata had spell rank books lol

clear normal raid get a talent point etc hit and run is right there :p

[open coyote]

anyone got a good rotation video for m+/raid you could share?

[plush roost]

40 second lust window look at nothing else no context wow sub is so op guys (arcane proceeded to mog me for rest of night)

[tender dust]

Do you think that sub has the best burst on beta currently?

[plush roost]

No that would be arcane

[tender dust]

So why are you gapping this arcane?

[plush roost]

I can only do that damage cause arcane didnt nuke the smallies cause he died

[tender dust]

lmao

[plush roost]

Just posting some clickbait hopium dont mind me

[slate marlin]

They will surelt nerf arcane

Surely

[tender dust]

You could never clickbait me

I'm already showing this picture to ion to nerf us

[plush roost]

I secretly want to play assa and by posting bad assa results and good doctored sub results my plan is in motion

[tender dust]

Makes sense, you are getting old already. that's the spec for old people 🧓

[plush roost]

Ye bro i turned 22 6 years ago and now my fingers have fallen off

I peaked masters 350lp in league at 26 and knew it was over for me

[azure thicket]

i's really excited about the last chapter of black mesa blue shift getting released on mod db soon

[vestal escarp]

It's not like all this rework stuff was to distract us from the fact that they wanted to rob sub of its burst

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/half-life-half-life-hecu-barney-scientist-gif-7930406716408175834

[vestal escarp]

Right chat???

[harsh meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-chat-gif-10597036249285788881

[void ocean]

morning, kings

[haughty mural]

afternoon, king

[spice monolith]

Keep it up you're doing God's work 🙏

[lethal gate]

https://tenor.com/view/math-zack-galifianakis-thinking-calculating-gif-5120792

[upbeat smelt]

So guys help me out, trying to understand something. Im using the macro for SD+Sectech, which is great I love it, specially cause I play on a steamdeck. I understand the opener with SB and using two charges or SD. But after that do I just hit SD+Sectech every 20s until SB is up again?

Because it sorta felt last night that the extra charge or SD was sorta useless if Im mostly using one every 20 secs and not the second one.

[fallow ingot]

Anyone on the beta right now ? i'm stucked in loading screen

[upbeat smelt]

Maybe I need to play more, or its a thing were I didn't have enough haste before but when the opener is done I think I had one charge of SD, but Sectech was still on CD, and felt bad not using it.

[lean sigil]

is it ok to macro dance to this? ofc i need one more button for just dance but this should be good? #showtooltip Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
/cast Shadow Blades

[tender dust]

You’re the goat bro! Sorry to call you old

[vale pine]

its a band aid fix, like many of the solutions

[void ocean]

lmao calling 28 year olds old 😄

[swift tinsel]

right dude I turn 36 in a month

basically dead ig

[void ocean]

37 in 2 months 😄

[upbeat smelt]

Anyone on my noob questions? Sorry only time I'll ask.

43 here 😭

[swift tinsel]

if it helps to shift your mental approach, think of secret technique as being the gameplay focus over shadow dance

at least outside of shadow blades

that'll make holding dance for it feel less bad

[slate marlin]

yeah basicaly

you can hold everything and just auto attack when sb is about to come off cd to farm sht

[upbeat smelt]

Understood, I do really like to use one button for both, I'll try to focus on Sectech being the priority. Thank you guys!

[red flame]

Real af, i’ll be 26 next month & I alr feel ancient

[jolly crescent]

Is it possible to get 7 globals into a 6sec shadow dance?

Like:
/use [mod:shift] Shadow Dance
/castsequence Shadowstrike, Eviscerate

Where I want to shadowstrike at 0sec, 2sec, 4sec and 6sec?

I have tried starting with shuriken storm or cheap shot as well ... but that last 6sec shadowstrike seems impossible

[hazy breach]

No its not possible when the dance is exactly 6 seconds

If you have a 6.2s long dance its possible

Or well, technically below that too but its rough

[jolly crescent]

How is deepening shadow duration calculated? It sometimes jumps around

[hazy breach]

It takes your haste from gear, multiplies it by 1.5, and then multiplies that to your dance duration

So 10% haste from gear > 15% longer dance > 6.9 second dance

Or 10.35 if you have the first dance active

[jolly crescent]

ohh ... so its 15% more of 9 sec. Thats cool 🙂

and the 35% breakpoint recommended in the FAQ turns the 6sec shadowdance >9sec so you get 4 more globals!

[small helm]

So sub is basically aug with the TotT buff?

[haughty mural]

Wdym?

[swift tinsel]

Pretty much the opposite

Timelessness is Salv, Tricks transfers threat to a target

[small helm]

‘So tricky’

[austere spear]

does racial matter for sub rogues? like one better than all others?

[sullen hare]

Fundamentally doesn't make it threat reduction though. The end result is the same but it's just all your threat going to your target

[sullen hare]

Not particularly no. Play what you want but if you want bleed dispel, dwarves are around, void elf is there for teleport, etc

[austere spear]

nah just making sure there wasnt a reason to go maghar or orc over just belf cause i prefer belf looks

[sullen hare]

The difference isn't gonna be dramatic

I'm considering going back to troll for the first time since wod

But I'm not sure I wanna give blizzard money. Maybe I can just buy it with gold lol

[pallid jackal]

What are you guys doing UI wise?

I'd like to have my combo points in the middle of the screen like usual

[upbeat smelt]

What does the mod/shift thing do?

[jolly crescent]

Only activate shadow dance when holding down shift

[upbeat smelt]

Ah ok thx, and cast sequence just casts everything in order, on GCD?

[blazing folio]

I used elvui before but atm standard ui with Sensei Class Resource Bar

[jolly crescent]

Yeah - it cycles between the two. You can also add all kinds of fancy modifiers and resets to it, but this was just for testing if 6 globals are possible during a 6sec window 😉

[upbeat smelt]

Oh so you press the button and casts Shadow Strike, then press it again and it casts eviscerate, and back and forth?

[jolly crescent]

Yup. If you add a reset=0.6 to the castsequence it will always start at shadowstrike if you havent pressed the button for 0.6s.

Not sure if thats useful though - sometimes you want to shadowstrike twice ... and sometimes eviscerate twice.

[upbeat smelt]

Yeah but its cool, good to know. I'm trying to reduce my number of buttons cause I play on a steamdeck.

Will definitely find some use for it, even if not for these specific abilities.

[jolly crescent]

I have various macros to do just that ... just started setting up my rogue, but a couple shortcuts so far include:
add /use !stealth to all abilities - no need to keybind stealth.
add /use [nostance] Backstab; Shadowstrike to always use shadowstrike over backstab when possible
also some other more controversial shortcuts that I haven't fully comitted to yet 😉

[torn tide]

nahhhhh

[upbeat smelt]

Thats awesome dude, the Shadowstrike thing got me intrigued, in what situation would it be possible to use it over backstab outside of dance/stealth?

[tepid trellis]

never

[jolly crescent]

Subterfuge 😛

[torn tide]

u must be speaking gibberish

[tepid trellis]

only issue with the macro is the thing called stance delay

subterfuge is its own stance which can also be added to the macro

[jolly crescent]

Whats stance delay?

[hazy breach]

It takes a few extra 1/10ths of a second for the game to update your stance

[upbeat smelt]

Whuuut? Is Subterfuge a pvp thing?

[hazy breach]

Subterfuge is a talent in the class tree

Its horrendous for sub

[tepid trellis]

which sometimes results in you firing a backstab instead of a shadowstrike

[upbeat smelt]

Ahhh yes I remember

Is bad for us?

[hazy breach]

Fairly sure its horrendous for all specs now

[north schooner]

for every spec, no?

ye

[hazy breach]

Genuinely close to useless

[pallid jackal]

Can you share a ss? I am now using just the normal head / resource, but then positioned more in the middle of the screen. Not sure if I like it

[north schooner]

it only exists to fill empty space

[pallid jackal]

Something like this, still working on it

[jolly crescent]

(its good in pvp where sub is useless outside of stealth, so fishing for restealths are common. Dont try this during a raid boss encounter!)

[pallid jackal]

And how can I track Araz' ritual forge buff now for example?

[hazy breach]

Get an addon

Like better cooldown manager, im sure lots of others also offer that functionality

[swift tinsel]

ye I think Arc UI, Tweaks, and Cooldown Manager Control all offer item tracking

[pallid jackal]

I thought the idea was that we should / could do it all through the Blizz one

[swift tinsel]

in addition to BCDM

lmao yeah they didn't think that part through

[blazing folio]

trinkets are still not in

[hazy breach]

Ye maybe in 4 years

[pallid jackal]

That is like a basic functionality xd

[swift tinsel]

I mean you can if you make an extra action bar and move it towards the middle of your screen

but that looks terrible

[upbeat smelt]

Its more like an aspiration, not currently realized.

[pallid jackal]

Like how could one program manager think to release this then not include the other aspects

[swift tinsel]

bc they bit off more than they could chew and could only walkback so much during alpha/beta

while everything else was on fire

[pallid jackal]

okay so we should pray.. I am getting that Cooldown Manager Control

[lilac stag]

Maybe bliz will be paywalling better UI like content creators by then.

[pallid jackal]

I seriously don't understand how they could think of a project then only include this

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[swift tinsel]

bc they make bad decisions

[hazy breach]

Well its the same for every single part of the UI

[swift tinsel]

nothing new for blizz lol

[pallid jackal]

unless they are all in really blitz mode, intense as in workplace, then release to release

[hazy breach]

The damage meter doesnt work, the nameplates are barebones as hell, the unit frames are stinky

[quaint brook]

i dont think blizzard is a very prestigious place to work

[lilac stag]

rank 1 rogue confused by bliz decision making.

[pallid jackal]

Why actually, do we not do this as in my UI, instead of getting another addon to get the status bar and combo points in a different place

It might be that I see that often

Referring to AKA Sensei Class Resource Bar

[lilac stag]

You’re wasting valuable visual real estate with your character picture.

[pallid jackal]

True

I think I like it though, reminds me of the old days

[lilac stag]

download asmondUI

[pallid jackal]

Where you stealth through every mob to get the quest item at the end of the cave, while the rest, mere mortals, have to kill every mob

[lilac stag]

It’ll be perfect.

[pallid jackal]

I'll try.

Doesn't exist

[jolly crescent]

What better to spend the apex talent finisher copy on? Darkest night, Coupe de grace or Secret Technique?

[swift tinsel]

Coup

not secret technique

[pallid jackal]

It's also weird how every cd is up on the screen when you're not fighting. Am I seeing things incorrectly here that it should be out at first? If you understand what I mean.

[swift tinsel]

basically

[torn tide]

that does basically let u have a double coup?

[swift tinsel]

you can set it to only show in combat

[pallid jackal]

Perfect, thanks.

And yeah you get rank 1 when you ask many questions :))

[pallid jackal]

Where do you disable that to show only in combat?

[swift tinsel]

Edit Mode

[pallid jackal]

I see, you have to go through some options such as advanced options

Perfect, thank you

I think I'm opting for that sensei class resource bar, just having the head there with the standard blizz UI gives me a headache

What do others use in terms of showcasing resource bars? I'd be very curious to know.

[swift tinsel]

Wangbar

[pallid jackal]

This is my UI now, let me know if people have got tips

[vale pine]

people use:

• Better cooldown manager
• Sensai bar
• Arc Ui
• Wangbar as its a lovely homebrew

[north schooner]

1

[pallid jackal]

but brb, and still need to sort some stuff with it

[jolly crescent]

How many points can shadow techniques store? Wowhead says 10, my retail rogue says 12 and my beta rogue says 14 … why does it change?

[vale pine]

2x your amx

*max

so 10 baseline

but if you are skilled into the deepers 2 more per

[vale pine]

it says that on wowhead too btw.

oh the tooltip

is missleading ye

[pallid jackal]

Is there anyone who'd want to do an m+ in a bit? I'd be curious to see and we could discuss

[jolly crescent]

so 50% of the time I get it on 3rd hits and the other half I get it on 4th hit ... how does the Shadowcraft talent (increase frequency by 40%) affect this?

[vale pine]

yes

[jolly crescent]

gotta love bad luck protection!

[vale pine]

its not bad luck protection

its like a deck of cards

you have 4 cards

1 of them is the card you want

[upbeat smelt]

Im super confused about our Apex talent. So basically our builders Backstab, Shadowstrike, and Shuriken Storm, spend Shadow Techniques store CP to add actual CPs, and with rank 1 we have a 15% per stack to fire a clone of that attack for 50% dmg.

So far so good. The second rank is just a buff. But for the 3rd one, how are we going to have stacks of secret techniques left for a finisher if we spend them when we use the buidlers?

[vale pine]

they are shuffled

but the first 2 cards are always guaranteed to be the blank cards

so you draw the 3rd card

if its a blank

only one card is left, and the 4th draw is guaranteed

if its the correct card, the cards reshuffle and you play the next round

just instead of cards, its auto attacks

[tepid trellis]

you generate an absolutely insane amount of Shadow technique stacks

thats how

[jolly crescent]

But how does the 40% increased frequency talent play into this?

[swift tinsel]

its off of your first or second auto attack with Shadowcraft/Dance up

vs third or fourth

so you proc considerably more

[upbeat smelt]

But its capped at 10-12-14 right? and don't the builders use them all up to that much?

[tepid trellis]

cap is 14 stacks

[upbeat smelt]

I mean is there anything visually that tells you you're about to use it?

[swift tinsel]

you can only ever use enough to fill your cp bar

[swift tinsel]

yes, there is a spell effect

[upbeat smelt]

Hmn ok ok ok

[vale pine]

it basically cuts down the deck by one

so instead of 2 blanks

you only have one, and only have a deck of 3 cards

so 3rd hit 50% becomes 2nd hit 50%

[upbeat smelt]

So when the apex is ready to pop basically we use a finisher and then another one back to back?

[jolly crescent]

so on average I have to draw 2.5 cards instead of an average of 3.5?

[vale pine]

yes

you get 40% faster procs ^^

the deck of card analogy is probably just easier to understand

[chrome palm]

damn, is this a hit to our burst or what?

[vale pine]

it is a nerf yes

so we get a 8% nerf

and the talent nerfs

however, this change applies to everyone

so all rogue specs have this

and other classes might suffer from the same problem

[chrome palm]

i guess its just unfortunate how strong our capstones are

and how useless our utility nodes are

[warm marlin]

[chrome palm]

wow i can take

shroud cdr now

[vale pine]

either that

or just slot in aoe blind

which from what i tested still worked on ptr

[chrome palm]

i was dropping iron stomach

last i played on beta

so you probably take that and the shiv talents

[vale pine]

ye

[chrome palm]

and nightstalker if you werent already

[vale pine]

i like iron stomach

idk

[chrome palm]

idk i dont think it does anything

[upbeat smelt]

Why is that, what difference does it make?

[warm marlin]

At least we’re losing the shit version of cold blood rather than the cool one

[chrome palm]

its just more useless talents that do literally nothing in raid imo

[swift tinsel]

because coup hits hard

and apex clone secret technique only copies the phys hit

[vale pine]

the boost to healing potions and stones feels good

[swift tinsel]

not the shadow hits which are considerably bigger than the phys hit

[chrome palm]

i suppose but im not sure if it really makes the difference

its not gonna stop you from dying either way, ive never rotten in m+ because i didnt have iron stomach

i think it just ends up getting overhealed anyways

[warm marlin]

i liked iron stomach on NK before they fixed cloak to work on the dot

[upbeat smelt]

Sorry I am confused, I thought the Apex only cloned builders in the first rank at 50%

[warm marlin]

feel like its not much value elsewhere

[swift tinsel]

with the 3rd node it can cast finishers if you have 5+ shadow techniques stacks after casting a builder

[warm marlin]

also presumably on beta we still have all our points in the capstone area?

or is that gone too

[chrome palm]

if pin is correct

and we keep cold blood

[upbeat smelt]

Man how does this description mean that??

3rd Talent
After attacks that generate combo points, if 5 or more stacks of Shadow Techniques remain, your next damaging finishing move will expend them to generate combo points up to your max.

[chrome palm]

then it just looks like a hit to our burst

[warm marlin]

at least for trickster there's no way

supercharging apex coup is goated

i can see it for deathstalker

[swift tinsel]

expending Shadow Techniques stacks is what procs the clones

[chrome palm]

idk cold blood is insane

[upbeat smelt]

all it says is that it refunds combo points

[warm marlin]

you're also losing the +1 cp for supercharging sectec

from FI

[swift tinsel]

"your next finishing move will expend them"

that mechanism is what procs the clones

[upbeat smelt]

Ah because then the finisher generates combo points!

[swift tinsel]

essentially

[upbeat smelt]

Wow man that's backwards shit

[west tide]

3 weeks boys

[upbeat smelt]

Way to simplify stuff

[west tide]

we gon be leveling as sub

goated spec

[swift tinsel]

I might level as sub or outlaw

[west tide]

remember how bad shadowdust sub was omg L times

now we vibin

[swift tinsel]

shadowdust owned

[upbeat smelt]

Lol I'm freaking blown away, tysm for taking the time to get this through my thick skull hehe

[swift tinsel]

np np at first read it comes across a bit obtuse but when you see it in action it makes way more sense

[pallid jackal]

Is it an idea to have like a discord section for UI-related matters? @vale pine

[vale pine]

I don't know, i think interfaces are a lot of personal preference

I also had some issues when importing profiles across addons on a 2nd pc

[pallid jackal]

sorry, how do I remove the head in your UI again?

[vale pine]

you can't in the default u

ui

you either need an addon

or run a script to hide it, which is just a pita

addon's you can decide between unit frame addons and simple addons with qol changes

[pallid jackal]

okay, I thought I deleted it earlier

but my pc crashed, getting a new one soon maybe. I have got Cooldown Manager as you've suggested

[vale pine]

cooldown manager is just for the ressource bar

and slight improvements to the cooldown manager

[pallid jackal]

And I've got Sensei Resource bars, these 2 addons are essentially what I have got for my UI.

[vale pine]

if you want a unit frame addon, you can use unhalted, simple unit frames or a qol addon like Enhance QOL

you don't need both advanced cooldown manager and sensei bar

its a either/or

[pallid jackal]

Yeah earlier I simply deleted that head profile, then my pc crashed and it is there again

yeah? Does Advanced Cooldown Manager do resource bars as well?

[vale pine]

yes

basically any of the addons i mentioned does

betetr cooldown manager

was one of them

[pallid jackal]

ah okay. I have got it setup now so might as well run with what I have. I don't think there is much performance difference

I see. Thanks for that.

And do any of these 2 allow the deletion of the player head?

[vale pine]

performance in general is a lot better in addons

[pallid jackal]

nowadays you mean?

And this is what I mean

[vale pine]

you need a addon that modifies the unit frames for that

i mentioned 3 options above

better blizzard frames is a 4th option

[pallid jackal]

Aha I see. Thank you.

[vale pine]

its a bit annoying

[pallid jackal]

How do you do it then with enhanced cooldown manager?

I think I am going for purely functional / clinical UI without the player head and purely optimized

[vale pine]

better cooldown manager does not change your unit frame

[pallid jackal]

Sensei Class Resource Bar*

But yeah same thing

[vale pine]

neither of them can

[pallid jackal]

What would be a simple one I could get that doesn't mess with the rest?

Since Arc UI immediately overrides my entire UI

Which I think allowed for that option.

[vale pine]

arc ui is complicated to setup sadly

[pallid jackal]

So any final recommendation to get rid of the player head?

[vale pine]

unsure if it allows modifications to unit frames

[swift tinsel]

I don't think any of them can modularly remove the portrait frame

[vale pine]

^

[swift tinsel]

you'd have to go for something like Unhalted/ElvUI that replaces the full player frame

[pallid jackal]

I just need that, removing the portrait frame. Everything I have for the rest is fine so ideally it doesn't mess with that.

[plush roost]

Midnight simple unit frames also removes portrait

[vale pine]

better blizzard frames should allow that

[swift tinsel]

unless there's some new one that allows for just portrait removal

[vale pine]

or alternatively any of the unit frame addons i mentioned

[plush roost]

That is the one i use

[pallid jackal]

Let me check that Charrend

[swift tinsel]

I just swapped to Unhalted and I'm toying with having a very minimal player hp bar

[pallid jackal]

And thank you very much Fuu

[uneven scarab]

Its very nice imo

[uneven scarab]

for player and target bars

[swift tinsel]

maybe a bit too thin

[vale pine]

but all of them change how it looks.

• Midnight Simple Unit frames
• Unhalted Unit frames
• Enhance QOL
  ...

[uneven scarab]

ya def give that boy a lil height

[swift tinsel]

ye I think I'm gonna double it

[vale pine]

i need quartz

unhalted has one big flaw

[swift tinsel]

honestly wouldn't mind it for target cast bar

[vale pine]

it does not show the exhausted bar

[uneven scarab]

Cell is coming soon! We will all be saved

[pallid jackal]

Then I can start with the rest, getting all the important item buffs on my screen

[plush roost]

This is my UI, pretty cozy imo

[vale pine]

quartz is supposed to get an update

[uneven scarab]

Are you playing assasubination here

[pallid jackal]

You've got that M+ UI - how is the raiding one looking like I'd be curious about .

[swift tinsel]

sadly I don't think quartz is the kind you can manually update by changing the Interface line in the .toc lol

[plush roost]

Beta details meter bugged out and made me assa perma

[uneven scarab]

Or is ur backstab muti and ur envenom evisc

LMAO okay

I see now

[swift tinsel]

quite nice, I'm a sucker for minimalist action bars but the rest looks solid

[pallid jackal]

Have you got the item buffs as well as a cd on the screen or how do you manage e.g. the unyielding netherprism trinket?

[eager latch]

were the locks and mage afk for this pull?

[plush roost]

Action bars go byebye when elvui returns, theres no mouseover show option on basic UI

I need to figure out how to remove my own name from party frames

So its just 4 frames and my actual nameplate

But im a bit lazy with beta UI since ima hella adjust it on live

[plush roost]

They hadnt ramped yet lmfao

[pallid jackal]

It's good to set that up at the start

brb

[swift tinsel]

might mess with the Tags a little bit more, I like having the Power number easily visible for power-based boss stuff

I kinda want the Target name to be up a bit more so the top border of the frame sits in the midline of it but that also interferes with Debuff icons

but might just nix Debuffs

[uneven scarab]

P much what mine lookslike right now

i got rid of debuffs ya

[pallid jackal]

I'll show my good UI / very clinical UI in a minute, need to brb

Also with like an enemy damage taken damage meter for some prog fights, not sure if blizz has implemented that yet though - comments?

brb

[swift tinsel]

what I really want is to have my hp value disappear when above like 50%ish

[uneven scarab]

Power number is nice, having 1-2 buffs show is useful too for stuff like boss dr whatever it is the boss might have

[plush roost]

Its been implemented.

It does not work however

[swift tinsel]

also buff spacing needs work lol

and not fully centered

would really like if the Edit grid was a higher strata than the elements being moved

less guesswork

[upbeat smelt]

Better Blizz frames is pretty good, lets you do that.

I wish I had a better way to see when coup is up, what do you guys use?

[uneven scarab]

the cdm tracks when it procs, just what im using rn

[placid storm]

Wow nice! Which addon are you using for the cooldown manager part?

[swift tinsel]

Cooldown Manager Control

[upbeat smelt]

I could only find the buff for unseen blade stacks in cdm, is that what you're using?

[swift tinsel]

My only gripe with Cooldown Manager Control is that you can't move text beyond the border of the icon itself and there's a certain amount of padding to the interior aspect of the border that makes sizing/moving funny

unless you get into funky UI scaling stuff

[kind edge]

this is the UI i did.

Brown bar with 4 stacks its the Escalating Blade tracker, at 4 stacks it turns green and it means u can Coup de Grace.
Purple bar its Shadow Dance duration.
Combo poits and energy bar its from Sensei.
The orange bar under energy its Flawless Form duration to let you know when your Nimble Flurry is doing aoe.

[upbeat smelt]

Thas pretty cool.

[wispy pebble]

what did you use for the escalating blade bars? Would like to use this for ST 😄

[kind edge]

Arc UI

[upbeat smelt]

At 90 we have 4 more talent points in the spec three?

Or better yet is there somewhere I can see a recommended build at lv 90?

[vale pine]

just add:

• the 4 apex talents
• the 3 remaining hero talents

and you got the 90 builds

[upbeat smelt]

Ah ok so what we have for the spec tree right now is pretty much it then, just att the Apex

[dawn moth]

Question on the openener do you use the second shadow dance or do we hold it for sectec later

[vale pine]

if you check the latest pin

next weeks update changes the talents for us to basically lose the points we currently have

so max level is the same as what we now have + 3 more utility picks of your choice

[upbeat smelt]

In the class three? Anything to increase DPS?

[vale pine]

well yes

the points we lose

you can spend again

[upbeat smelt]

Oh dang ok my bad just read the pin

[vale pine]

🙂

the gate moves

so you need to spend 2 before it, which is all utility

and then you have 1 left

which you put in leeching poison and call it a day

[upbeat smelt]

Kk tyvm

[sullen hare]

Why did they move the gate anyways? Were they looking to make changes because we weren't mad enough about the general tree?

[keen dome]

'cos we're getting +3 class tree points in Midnight

[vale pine]

^

what blizz basically did was nifty

they shifted damage talents to the bottom of the class trees

and now shift the gate so you can get more of the utility talents

means overall there is no change between 80 and 90 from the class tree

[eager latch]

love blizzard ngl

[vale pine]

both ather trees are designed similar

you can only fill up your hero talents, so you just get all the new stuff baseline added

and the spec tree has exactly the amount of points you get for apex

[sullen hare]

Oh ok it's 4 + 3 + 3 I missed that and yeah the math works out. I guess I'll put away my pitchfork 🙄

[vale pine]

apex in general is designed to be required to be picked

[lilac stag]

pretty sure rogue still has some of the higher amounts of dmg talents in the class tree

[keen dome]

Yeah, Hero + Apex are all just "sutff you take." No real choice making over there.

[vale pine]

so the ybasically just made you play 80 talents with the addition of apex

[keen dome]

And then class tree has some choice

[vale pine]

so the level up is an illusion of choice

It contributes to the overall feel of a lack of hype

[lilac stag]

I don’t know about you, but I love feeling worse going into leveling and while leveling.

[vale pine]

thats why they put the patch now

so you don't feel the impact on release

[floral geyser]

is sub fun in MN?

[vale pine]

but can start without thinking "oh shit, i just lost 2 damage talents"

[vale pine]

yes

[lilac stag]

Except for specs not using class trees for dps

[vale pine]

well ye

[lilac stag]

Who won’t feel much of an impact

Where rogue is an outlier. Still.

[floral geyser]

so when saving up 2 shadow dances for Shadowblades when do I secret tehcnique

[lilac stag]

Same time as always

[vale pine]

in sahdow dance

[lilac stag]

First or second finisher

[floral geyser]

But wont i miss one in a shadow dance if im saving 2

[lilac stag]

[vale pine]

you have one extra charge

[lilac stag]

In lust you back to back dance each with a Sectech. Outside of lust it’s dance +st, dance, dance + st

I love how confusing the easy spec still is.

[vale pine]

i think the struggle is in the cooldown alignment

[lilac stag]

which is good

Make you think

[vale pine]

well unless

you just put a rule

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/simon-gif-23573397

[vale pine]

then it becomes the same

ill first explain, then tell the answer, so people actually think

[lilac stag]

People have to play around the rules

[vale pine]

shadow dance is on a 20 sec cooldown

[lilac stag]

Vs just slamming what lights up

[vale pine]

so you get one charge every 20 sec

[floral geyser]

best combo point addon atm? Sensei?

[lilac stag]

or wang

[vale pine]

so to visualize it

you egt +1 charge at this rate

but following the rules for level 90, you would not use dance 10 sec before secret

shifting the use later, creating additional time which gives more cdr

ofc this is only this tight if we have a low secret cooldown

you won't use dance every 20 sec with low amounts of haste

but this "delay" is basically how you shift dance use to fit blades

[austere spear]

question why do we go into SD with low cp as DS spec? cause in opener we start with full cp

[pallid jackal]

How do you remove that with Midnight Simple Unit frames?

Got it already, thanks

[rugged goblet]

Am I trippin why does my cooldown manager still have symbols of death as a trackable CD 😭

[kind edge]

its because blizzard CDM does to

i guess

[rugged goblet]

i am talking about the blizzard one

[kind edge]

oh okey, i thougt u was talking about an addon

[rugged goblet]

Just booted up my rogue and was hella confused for a while

Also realized im not able to add Mutilate to essential, it just stays greyed out

[stoic flower]

We don’t use mutilate as sub

[uneven scarab]

Its a good thing you dint need mutilate as a sub rogue

ya lmao

[hazy breach]

You dont need to track it as assassination either

But for some reason its there if you really want to see your blindside procs

Idk lots of strange stuff in the cdm

[uneven scarab]

Very clearly kinda thrown together

[tender dust]

Honestly they should just let us add spell iD's to the manager to whatever we want to add.

[rugged goblet]

My point is the cdm is scuffed

[uneven scarab]

yes

[hazy breach]

Ofc, but thats the exact functionality they wanted gone

[uneven scarab]

You should be able to add literally anything you decide you want to track with no issues lol

Is what it is tho

[rugged goblet]

you 2 getting butthurt over namedropping a different specs ability real kekw

[tender dust]

Yeah dumb ass decision

[jolly crescent]

Is beta down?

[swift tinsel]

Not having innate support for potions, healthstone, etc in cdm is a bit dumb

[lilac stag]

@uneven scarab could you please not got so butt hurt about mutilate? You’re upsetting the old returning rogues.

[uneven scarab]

man i was so butthurt

think im gonna take it out on the mages

[swift tinsel]

your poor butts

[lilac stag]

Perfect

[uneven scarab]

[lilac stag]

They have no defensives now. Should be easy targets

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/dwight-gif-27035780

No longer will i full send cooldowns into a mage for him to ginvis my entire rotation

[lilac stag]

Just mutilate a few times

[uneven scarab]

no fr tho mage is like super squish now

its actually kinda wild

probably deserved

[lilac stag]

I can’t wait for our mages to top our shaman in first two deaths.

[uneven scarab]

For 13 xpacs of being best m+ class LOL

Mages are the new floor lickers for sure

[chrome palm]

idk

mage should be a glass cannon imo

thats usually the fantasy

[uneven scarab]

i agree

[chrome palm]

having mage be a tank and having great defensives and doing great damage and having so much utility

are we kidding

[uneven scarab]

they were extremely blessed in the defensive department for a long time

it was insane

[lilac stag]

god is mage fantasy in wow

[uneven scarab]

true

[chrome palm]

mage should be

op but not be able to live well

op in terms of like util

[uneven scarab]

they should always have good damn and util i agree

if rogue had slightly more non dps util id be so happy

[lilac stag]

meanwhile warlocks running around with burning rush on permanently.

[uneven scarab]

Bro that shit HURTS lmao

Atleast it did alot last season

[lilac stag]

Yea

[chrome palm]

rogues fantasy has always been that it has a million like personal utility tools

[lilac stag]

I watched ours fuck it up a few times.

🔥

[uneven scarab]

Def watched ours do his whole opener with it on the entire time

[alpine wraith]

gotta make leech do its work

to get healing logs

[uneven scarab]

True gotta vial on cd

For those fat 99 healing parses

[alpine wraith]

i always like to think i helped when a mechanic is about to chunk me for 70% of health to press vial

for a 15% heal over 5 secs

[uneven scarab]

its how i feel with feint when u take half the damage of the entire raid

https://tenor.com/view/ralph-wiggum-simpsons-hi-bye-gif-16529059407582436389

[hollow spear]

Feint goated

[fallow ingot]

Gameplay stays largely unchanged, the buffs to Mass Casualty mean we can't ignore Darkest Night anymore, so we fall back to always play around it (also in AoE/Multi Target).

I'm dumb or Darkest night tooltip didint mention BP ?

[vale pine]

it does not, you use evis

[fallow ingot]

so basicly the evis "Cleave"

[vale pine]

kinda yes

MC is how blizz fixes their design problems

it works, just feels like a band aid for the player

but if thats the gameplay vision of the dev team, not much we can do

[fallow ingot]

i see the point

[uneven scarab]

god ds smells

[vale pine]

if you smell, have you tried taking a shower?

[uneven scarab]

nothing can wash away the sins of deathstalker

[vale pine]

haha

[uneven scarab]

Like even assa players dont love it and it was clearly designed for them

[grand tapir]

Oh we (I) actively hate it. Playing sub trickster in prepatch has been so much fun

[uneven scarab]

its just awful

[grand tapir]

Im at the point now where i'll take the dps loss to not have to manage the mark. 3 seasons of that shite was enough

[pallid jackal]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like :wowhead: WoWhead or :IV: Icy Veins.

[pallid jackal]

Referring to Coup de Grace - how is this castable with black powder? Both are finishers right? Coup de grace acts as eviscerate

[upbeat cradle]

I think it's so if coup de grâce is up, it will cast it instead of BP

[uneven scarab]

Yes

Coup takes prio over bp

[finite carbon]

no, your dumb

[uneven scarab]

If you use the macro itll just always coup first if its available otherwise it will bp

[finite carbon]

for openning kingsbane without tea

[swift tinsel]

damn u rite, mb

lemme go bm hunter in the corner

[past vault]

Yo guys, does anoyne have the spreadsheet of all rogue bugs?

[swift tinsel]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[swift tinsel]

🫡

[pallid jackal]

So is everyone running deathstalker now?

[swift tinsel]

Nah I'm a Trickster stan

[pallid jackal]

I ran with trickster and didn't parse as expected

[swift tinsel]

well like they say

https://tenor.com/view/its-tricky-run-dmc-rap-hip-hop-rnb-gif-23588491

alright laundry time

[uneven scarab]

iirc both are playable on pre patch

youd be a fool to play ds tho

[pallid jackal]

Why?

[uneven scarab]

idk just annoying to play compared to trickster

atleast i feel that way

[pallid jackal]

I like Trickster

Haven't tried ds yet though

[harsh meadow]

Fuck deathstalker. All my homies hate deathstalker

[uneven scarab]

Trickster feels like a natural extension to what we already like to do on sub

ds just feels weird

[pallid jackal]

Yeah that I would agree with, the natural extension

[vale pine]

it works like this

coup is a proc like blindside

and these proc effects follow diffrent macro logic

so you can use them in a macro like this

and it will simply cast BP when coup is not able to be used

[honest surge]

Anyone else having a problem where BP isnt consuming deathstalker marks?

[swift tinsel]

Do you have darkest night up?

[honest surge]

I see

Is it still consuming a stack?

[swift tinsel]

DN blocks mark consumption

[honest surge]

I think im misunderstanding smthn

Bruhhhhh

[swift tinsel]

so you have to Eviscerate to be able to consume stacks again

[honest surge]

I see

Tyty

[bleak night]

np

[swift tinsel]

tbf the tooltip is potentially misleading, in classic fashion, since it only says "Eviscerate cast with Darkest Night does not consume a stack of active Deathstalker's Mark"

[honest surge]

Yea, nowhere does it say it blocks bp consumption

[swift tinsel]

if it worked that way it would be quite nice, since in aoe it feels realllllly bad to press a lil baby Eviscerate