subtlety

[vale pine]

but give me a sec

[lilac stag]

I’m curious how the on use sims

[vale pine]

i mean its literally

one line ^^

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Is there a space between “ and r?

or my eyes seeing kerning issues Lol

[vale pine]

no

there is no spae

[lilac stag]

kerning issues it is.

[vale pine]

would be with space

or you mean at the start of "race

with start of race too

haranir looks like its not implemented

[lilac stag]

The font just has weird kerning between “r

[vale pine]

its a programming font, hack

[tribal blade]

this gif is giving me confusing feelings

[keen dome]

You can dance if you wanna

[vale pine]

comparing it to open sans and roboto

you see the space between characters is higher but consistently

[harsh meadow]

we should have gotten Amani trolls… what the fuck is a haranir

[vale pine]

tho its not very visible unless you zoom in that much

this feels easy to read

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

bjorn is off getting r1 on his new mechagnome in prepatch. @haughty mural please check back at a later time.

[haughty mural]

brb on my way to enable "always show me"

[lilac stag]

why is the holy priest topping dps!?!?

[tender dust]

Right now I’m so down to the bottom that doesn’t show me not even shows me 💀💀

[lilac stag]

I’m sure it’s just rng

[tender dust]

Yeah it is

[haughty mural]

just ask bjorn how to rank 1 smh my head

[tender dust]

Fatebound coins not proccing on sub sadly

[harsh meadow]

[lilac stag]

also bricked your

[tender dust]

that’s not only thing that was bricked

What?

[lilac stag]

your UDK got excited by their post nerf dps?

[slender kraken]

waalpen got crazy clip of pest damage

[pallid jackal]

How do you access the code?

[vale pine]

wdym

its just a text file, i added the race to my local version

if you mean the code behind the simulation, google "simulationcraft github"

[scarlet heath]

Shut up movies!

[pallid jackal]

Ah I see. I thought maybe there was a way to personalize the sims some more, especially once you have got a programming background

I would definitely look into that once I start raiding again / going for high rankings

[pallid jackal]

tbh I just used rankings already available and swapped from pandaren to human once

[lilac stag]

The Sims are already specialized. Racial is just the variable and is accounted for.

[pallid jackal]

but that was mainly for the improved screen / UI buff from pandaren to human, since pandas are too fat

[lilac stag]

Savory Deviate Delight exists

oh snap. Fuubook inc

or the cat is on the keeb

[vale pine]

The title sounded a lot more interesting, but its (like sadly most of content creation or youtube) just one i assume generally known thing screeched out to a 15 minute video.
TL;DR: Streaming platforms notice a trend of people only passively watching series, and this leads to actors announcing everything they do, creating a lot of unnecessary dialog.

[tender dust]

Why does nobody ever make a animation video going over how they melee attack

been looking at yt now

[vale pine]

as stupid as it sounds

melee attacks are not even that uninteressting

you can make a video about them

(in theory)

[tender dust]

hahaha thanks for the content idea but i have something called being lazy

[vale pine]

if you want to look into something related to it, swing timers and attack resets is something other games often heavily optimize

[alpine wraith]

you can do a physics study

animation cancelling attack resets etc

are big

[vale pine]

and there is a lot of extra things

[alpine wraith]

or frame time baiting

[vale pine]

but this might just showcase

how you can, with enough knowlage, explore a lot of things, which sound boring

[lilac stag]

Arms warriors in shambles without a swing timer

[alpine wraith]

tbh there was some finesse on knowing swing timer for going back and charging for more rage

or to change stance and intercept

for rogue we had funny times with diff swing timers on weps

when slow and fast or medium speed daggers were a thing

[lilac stag]

#1 minmax that got arms warriors killed

[alpine wraith]

no path available

1 mm rock in between you and the mob

[lilac stag]

leap out into shit.
charge through shit.
don’t have leap to get out of shit.
☠️

[vale pine]

i am sure fell charge is the #1 reason for "natural deaths" on dh

encounter mechanics and void zones seem to have a gravitational impact on it

[alpine wraith]

there is also the terminal velocity random bomb

where you rush and get sent to africa

or dc

[glacial eagle]

bruv this was like
15 years ago? I think weapon speed standardization per weapon class+handedness is all the way back in Cata?

hmm, actually no, that wasn't fully in even in MoP
post-Wrath just had the majority of epic daggers with 1.8 speed, but not always

[tribal blade]

worst part is when you leap to avoid something and it still hits you because it's registering where you leapt from teehee

[void ocean]

i had void elf racial stopped by a virtual curb in SW which doesnt even render as "3D"

not to mention fckin antenna orbs being stuck on random lines

[haughty mural]

@lilac stag did you already set it up a bit ?

[hollow spear]

Weapon speed standardisation/normalisation is unfortunately not a thing for sht

I'm so down to play a non dagger offhand

[minor sorrel]

i would love some tinkering with odd weapon types beeing allowed but that is more for cllassic

[graceful osprey]

Might be interesting to have a dagger sub build and non-dagger sub build

[minor sorrel]

saps and clubs would do it for me lol

[graceful osprey]

But speaking of weapons…imagine a class or spec that dual wields wands

[minor sorrel]

I imagined throwing spears

for surv hunter as offhand

and throwing knive /shuriken offhands for sub

[graceful osprey]

The scorpion build

[minor sorrel]

yea

[lilac stag]

I may have been a terrorist on dimmy leaping to add a second too early with puddle

[tribal blade]

lol warrior classic

[lilac stag]

Puddle then randomly appears along path

usually where the circle soak location was

[tribal blade]

the last time that shit happened to me i was doing the dino-ape fight and tried leaping out of a beam last second

at least we deal with shadowstep shenanigans

that's sometimes the ultimate form of shenanigans

luckily DK is invincible or else i would have had to keep swapping my step target mid P1 dimmy

[lilac stag]

one of the charges launched me off the platform and I somehow managed to leap back onto it, while under the platform. The DH I was usually next to just lets out a “bruuuuh” over comms.

[tribal blade]

haha nice

[stone vessel]

should sectec be the first gcd after shadow dance everytime?

[void ocean]

i did this shit on Sire as an outlaw

get knocked off in p2 and hook midway

[tulip light]

@stone vessel cast it asap at 6+ supercharged - if u enter dance at 6+ yes if not as your first finisher

[glacial eagle]

tbh the "battlemage" fantasy is super underrepresented in WoW
all the spell+melee types are "divine" casters (enh sham, prot/ret pala)

[void ocean]

whats divine in enh shaman

[swift tinsel]

Dks

Ye it’s pretty much just paladin that falls into that category

[void ocean]

bring back shockadin

[swift tinsel]

Fdk before it all went automated had a handful of spells

Unholy obv has plenty

Enh is nature

[glacial eagle]

it's nature magic given by spirits, basically very minor deities

[void ocean]

yea, thats a reach

[glacial eagle]

DK is sort-of magical, though, yes, that works

[swift tinsel]

they're necromancers

that's pretty magic

lol

[glacial eagle]

I mean by like, magic...alignments? power sources? IDK what it's now, but back in the day necromancy actually was (a subset of) arcane magic so yes, DK are a kind of a battlemage

[lilac stag]

UDK able to do nearly 99% of their rotation outside of melee.

[placid storm]

Which addons are you using here? Better cooldown manager?

[upbeat garden]

Thats how they designed the spec ,does no dam with meele spells

[graceful osprey]

Imagine rogues getting another spec, elemental rogue, we can throw element infused throwing weapons, empower our weapons with elemental power, do some naruto stuff

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-water-tobirama-jutsu-water-style-gif-17348447

[upbeat garden]

Ive been dreaming about dark ranger type spec for rogue

[dense geode]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[graceful osprey]

Kyvesa dagger spam

[upbeat smelt]

Okay sorry too but in the convo here, I too would like to see some fantasy rich hero talents.

But I wanted to ask about dance after the opener I pretty much want it to keep dance on cooldown correct? Except to save it to line up with the next sec tech?

[swift tinsel]

Deathstalker at least has some fantasy but the gameplay is just butt

[swift tinsel]

use with sectech to supercharge it

[upbeat smelt]

Right but aside from trying to line that up pretty much use it on CD correct?

[swift tinsel]

no only use it with that

[upbeat smelt]

Ah ok

That way I see that macro that has them together?

[swift tinsel]

The only time you don't is during shadow blades just so you can fit 2x dances in blades

the macro is to help be as gcd-efficient as possible in dance

[upbeat garden]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[upbeat smelt]

Okay okay thanks much. I was having a hard time last night during M+ after the opener, and trying to re-sync everything when blades came up again.

[swift tinsel]

having the appropriate amount of haste also really helps with lining things up

[upbeat smelt]

Yeah I hear you I got a chance and stuffs yesterday I went from 8% to 20 some % and I felt the difference

[lilac stag]

ArcUI

[azure thicket]

engineering class honestly

[prime raft]

ik why classic going down today but why retail

[swift tinsel]

vibes

[prime raft]

was gonna play retail why classic was down SMH

guess its mop angle unless....

bruh

[tender dust]

how about we get different animations for sub first instead of this bland ass spec right now

[torn tide]

is it normal that my dps is low for some dungeons but high for others even tho i dont change rotation?

for some reason when i play other dungeons its fine but when i play priory of the sacred flame its suddenly like 10k lesser

[swift tinsel]

after playing a bunch of other specs sub really does have pretty lackluster animations/sfx

coup is the only one that has anything really going for it

[lilac stag]

that’s like saying DS is fun as a hero tree

[swift tinsel]

how is that the same?

[granite trench]

where can i find a build for beta?

[left ledge]

Oh yeah

Sub has nothing

Shadow blades is a fart on your fist

LOL

[swift tinsel]

Rupture, for as much as I disliked it, at least had a cool attack animation

stab a dagger stab a dagger then rip both out

[dry plank]

Same feeling. Just a poopoo instead of spec 🙁 sad

[left ledge]

Yep, you play other specs and they just feel and sound powerful

[swift tinsel]

It can really go a long way to make a tWo buTtOn sPeC feel more engaging

[left ledge]

With sub I might as well be T posing

[swift tinsel]

like just now before servers went down I was messing around on uhdk and ww and both have some solid effects and buttons feel good to press

like flurry strikes is dope as hell

[left ledge]

Oh yeah

[swift tinsel]

even festering strike sounds nice and crunchy

putrefy, epi, hell scourge strike sound cool

[left ledge]

It’s ok

We got clones now

That repeat our lacklustre animations

[red flame]

Shadow clones are awesome too

[swift tinsel]

I'm still a bit disappointed in their visual, its better than it was but eh

[left ledge]

Yeah lol

[red flame]

I’m so fkn glad they leaned into the shadow rogue + shadow clone fantasy

[left ledge]

It was a quick put together thing

[red flame]

Shits dope as hell

[swift tinsel]

I wish they'd put more effort into the clones themselves than the little purplish overlay you can kinda see for 1/15th of a second

[left ledge]

Yeah it’s dope but the visuals are ass

[red flame]

Real

They need to just make better visuals

But the theme is there imo

[left ledge]

They have great visuals for other specs

[granite trench]

where can i find a build for beta?

[left ledge]

Idk why the rogue slack

[swift tinsel]

Also the clones almost completely disappear with even decent graphics settings

[red flame]

Ngl I wish they made sub use Death From Above instead of Eviscerate

[swift tinsel]

which sucks for a lot of people who can't play at high/max graphics

[red flame]

Since sub is literally the fkn ninja spec

[swift tinsel]

you just pretty much miss the whole effect

[red flame]

Also no smoke bomb is actually diabolical af

[red flame]

Yikes

[swift tinsel]

thank your local Demon Hunter

[granite trench]

id like to have a similar experience with rogue as you guys. i would like a build for beta

[swift tinsel]

A big part of the problem is the clones themselves don't have a defined model, their appearance is implied/outlined by the purple smoke effect and slight flashing purple overlay

[warm marlin]

keys or st

[granite trench]

keys

[swift tinsel]

and those tend to disappear once you start lowering graphics from max

so you're left with an implied model without anything to lead to its implication

idk I just don't really understand the thought behind that art decision

[red flame]

Maby it would be cool of the shadow clones did like a Raptor In The Mists thing from Elden Ring where they like leap up from the ground & do some badass vfx attack

Idk

[warm marlin]

dont have import code on me but this will be good

[red flame]

Or give them the DFA animation

That would be sick too. I love that animation

[granite trench]

why warning signs?

[warm marlin]

gives a lot of shadow techniques for st

[swift tinsel]

this would be pretty sick

[granite trench]

why umbral edge over veltouched

[warm marlin]

umbral edge is a very strong talent and veiltouched is okay

you could swap finality to veiltouched

but 15% clone damage is a bigger portion of our shadow damage than 5% total.

[red flame]

would be nice if there was:
1.) a place to suggest vfx or general ability feedback they would actually like consider or listen to
2.) last half of point #1

also not that i think it would change literally anything at all, but i think shuriken toss/storm would be waaay cooler as a Kunai not a Shuriken ; at least a glyph for that would be 🔥

[chrome quiver]

okay got a huge problem, can't see my combopoints and i'm using elvui - does that interfere with the normal wow stuff? I already put personal resource display on, but it's either showing full combo points or noone

[tender dust]

Can someone explain me why this is? Generally 'Trickster wants to enter :ShadowDance: at full cp and deathstalker with low cp'

[warm marlin]

[hazy breach]

Trickster wants to sectech > apex coup, which you can pretty much guarantee by sitting at full cp and holding for a few seconds before dancing

Deathstalker doesnt care about apexing anything in particular

Since almost nothing in the tree interacts with shadow clones

[minor sorrel]

cladow schlones

[alpine wraith]

krangled clones

[tender dust]

is it then a bad practice i always try to be full CP before sending dance. its mostly because i use the dance/sectech macro

[fresh portal]

so its only really relevant for midnight since we dont have apex right now right? Unless you just want to get in the habit you can just send and w/e CP?

[hazy breach]

Maybe idk

[warm marlin]

if you're playing DS use a dance/storm macro instead, problem solved

if you're playing trick it's fine to just dance/sectec macro

[graceful osprey]

For sure. I’ve always wanted more animations.

[tender dust]

I just want to look more shadowy

[hazy breach]

Still no clue why they didnt copypaste kyveza clones for our clones

[red flame]

god that would be sick

[tender dust]

Took me 150 pulls to her kill in the start of the season but holy shit that fight was awesome

[graceful osprey]

I’ve always hoped that blizzard added unique animations for each spec. Not every ability has to be unique but still.
Isn’t coup just the same animation as rampage?

[alpine wraith]

i still hope one day they add skill mtx

and we get really cool effects

[tender dust]

To busy on adding house decors

[alpine wraith]

think more people would pay for skill mtx tbh

[tender dust]

oh i def would

[hazy breach]

Im assuming its insanely hard for them to implement that because their base game was designed in 2002

[tender dust]

I spend tons of money in poe on skill mtx

[hazy breach]

Since it seems like an infinite money glitch for them

[tender dust]

yeah probaly

[alpine wraith]

actually yea maybe if they add effects nagrand loses textures again

[tender dust]

I still think after this trilogy they are gonna do something to the engine and have a reset

[alpine wraith]

very unlikely tbh

data transfer through engines and other databases would take so many years and resources

and microsoft would not greenlight that investment

[tender dust]

I dont know with what everything is going on i feel like they are going something on the background what feels like a wow reset to me

[alpine wraith]

we can only hope but wow tbh has been heavily undermonetized

and that has lost them a lot of possible reinvest in the game

[radiant swift]

what is the reason u want to enter dance with full cp as trickster, but at low cp as deathstalker?

[alpine wraith]

replied above with apex as trickster you can force sec tech builder apex coup

but as ds you dont really care

because everything is krangled with clones

[radiant swift]

that is then only for midnight

i tough i heard that for prepatch too

[alpine wraith]

for prepatch who knows but if you can hold coup it is good too

mainly because you also supercharge it

[radiant swift]

i do but the timing feels odd

saying not "far away with dance" when it has like 20 sec cd overall is hard to put in perspective

so if its like 4-5 sec

[alpine wraith]

yea around that

3-5 secs

you can just ignore holding if you are at like 2 unseens

and just pool sht

[radiant swift]

everything else feels to long

often its somehow low energy too

so it takes some sec anyway to get to max cp

what is the whole pool thing about

do we not get double cp somenthing

i think it happend like once i couldnt do a finisher instant inside of dance and/or dance + blades

[plush roost]

In midnight youre not on 35% haste so youre not guaranteed infinity cp

Im frequently getting 2-3 apex in blades if i dont pool or do strike at 7cp tech

Which if u do the strike at 7cp thing u can get 6-7 (haHAA) apex

[vale pine]

Think its just the effort problem

bandaid fixes are cheap and fast

so the effort of doing a real fix is higher and pricier than the opposite

[prime raft]

if i also wanna play OL would it be best to make a new rogue for it

[harsh meadow]

67

[vale pine]

even if the band aid leads to more problems down the line

[prime raft]

so my crafts dont get messed up

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter that much

Obviously first week if you craft a dagger VS a non-dagger it kinda sucks

[plush roost]

Meh, u can use crafted dagger in OH and get a myth Mh 3 wreks in

[hazy breach]

But besides that it doesnt matter at all

[plush roost]

Unless u plan on spec swappi g 24/7

[radiant swift]

makes sense

[fresh portal]

can anyone ELI5 ancient arts to me and how we play around it? I don't quite understand it. I've only just picked up sub in prepatch and not played it in beta, so maybe it will make more sense if I do play it.

[plush roost]

When you use builder and your shadow technique stacks =5+ after then next finisher summons a clone that duplicates it and refreshes your cp 5-7 (based on sht stacks) basically

[haughty mural]

Improved ambush

[torn tide]

rip im only at 14%

[radiant swift]

and consumes the stacks? so the clone is the extra thing everything else is as usual?

[lilac stag]

I think the upgrade crests are still worse upgrading mythic vs getting crafted done.

[graceful osprey]

I still would like old backstab/ambush attack sound

[warm marlin]

is good now

was bugged (in sims)

[vale pine]

oh true, back to using it ^^

[hearty cedar]

I am fairly new here, and joined because I can't seemed to stop wracking my brain about this but I can't figure out with Deathstalker is generally better than Trickster when 70% of my Deathstalker marks don't ever actually get consumed/used. Edit: I am using more than 6 combo points on finishers too.

[lilac stag]

it’s not better

Except ST on prepatch

[hearty cedar]

Yeah, I mean, for now at least that's what I am looking at just to get a better understanding but I can't get deathstalker to reliably proc it's mark so it feels weird that it is better

[hazy breach]

Everytime you use a 5+ finisher it will proc

As long as you do not have Darkest night up

Then it pruposefully doesnt, to force you to use the proc

[hearty cedar]

Right, except there are several occassions where I mark something and for the first 15 seconds, no marks are consumed whatsoever

[hazy breach]

Yea because you have darkest night up

[hearty cedar]

Darkest Night doesnt get consumed on your next Eviscerate?

[hazy breach]

It does on eviscerate yes

Not sectech or bp

[hearty cedar]

Cause I am saying I am burning through like 40 combo points in eviscerates and its not proccing it

Also, mind you, theres literally a node to make Black Powder consume it so it detonates for AoE damage, and Bp also doesnt consume it

The only thing I can do is swap targets and back and SOMETIMES it'll start counting marks down again

[hazy breach]

Idk do you have any logs, because ive never heard of this happening

[hearty cedar]

I'll frame it this way: I have lost 3 deathstalker windows to timing out because none of the 3 marks got consumed and I ripped through all of my combo points

[fossil forge]

is this peak wow experience

[hearty cedar]

This is over the course of the last few days. It happened the most for me on bosses in the raid. I normally don't join Discords like this but this has been melting my brain entirely and I can't figure it out. What logs would you need, Eleem and i'll see what I can do to get it

[hazy breach]

Just a log where you say it happened

[hearty cedar]

So just a warcraft log basically then?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[cursive tundra]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cursive tundra]

fuu, do you have any sims/talents for beta?

[red vortex]

2 button spec

[tender dust]

Why is your HP bar that long bro

That's disturbing to me

[dry plank]

The longer does not mean better 😉

[finite crow]

When is sub getting nerfed in pvp?

[tepid trellis]

when blizzard gives a fck about the side gamemode

[finite crow]

True that i do it just for the mount but i need the illusion in midnight ngl

[radiant swift]

ngl coup sound kinda bis

[hearty cedar]

Eleem, if you have darkest night does it cause ALL finishers to just not consume a stack?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[hearty cedar]

So that's a bug then?

[hazy breach]

No

They purposefully changed it to work this way in midnight

[hearty cedar]

So the tooltip is wrong then

[hazy breach]

Yes

[white scaffold]

!makro

[hearty cedar]

I see. I think that's been the issue then.

[white scaffold]

[vale pine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[white scaffold]

Shhh

The german came through

[lilac stag]

nein

[hazy breach]

After the most recent beta tuning though you just always use darkest night whenever its up

Regardless of target count

[hearty cedar]

Darkest Night has been essentially stopping my ability to use marks because in an AoE scenario I didn't realize it was stopping ALL finishers

[hazy breach]

But deathstalker also seems horrid compared to trickster in aoe, so

[hearty cedar]

From a gameplay standpoint, I tried it and I feel like I am playing 5D chess

[hazy breach]

Well yeah but 1 BP does more damage than DN+all the mark effects

(until they implement the beta buff to live, which they will on reset)

[fossil forge]

i did 0 with my ui

[hazy breach]

Its just a poorly designed hero talent that theyve doubled down to make more unfun this expac, when it was already not played before

[hearty cedar]

Well, sure but I mean for the sake of proccing Mass Casualty, its hard to do when your Darkest Night procs and you're fumbling to figure out where the hell it all went

[hazy breach]

Mass casualty is included in the "all mark effects" i mentioned

But again, were probably gonna play trickster all expac just like tww

[tepid trellis]

as god intended

[upbeat garden]

I love trickster and buff nimble

[hearty cedar]

I've always played Trickster and visited the Wowhead page to try and figure out what in the world happened and saw that Deathstalker's Mark was labeled as the better for ST and in some AoE scenarios and it just gave me a giant ? because I couldnt get it to do anything

[alpine wraith]

dont worry blizz fixed that

[lilac stag]

say it with me. Prepatch doesn’t matter.

[haughty mural]

Oh what was bugged ? So it’s already good in prepatch ?

[warm marlin]

It just wasn't implemented at all so it didn't do anything

it's much better than tight spender

[hazy breach]

I mean theyre both shit talents

So its not a huge difference either way

But yeah imp ambush better

[lilac stag]

Imagine trusting a sim or talent layout that included tight spender

[haughty mural]

Alright

[maiden oar]

we love it

trickster is the only good hero talent rogue has

[chrome palm]

Fatebound is just “you get more resources” which feels infinitely better for the other two specs

[maiden oar]

yeab

[chrome palm]

But trickster doesn’t eve do anything anymore

[maiden oar]

but i want to have gameplay w my hero talent

[chrome palm]

So it’s just a non hero talent

[maiden oar]

u can still make decisions based on coup cant u

[chrome palm]

Hold for dance

That’s it I think

[maiden oar]

theyre like less impactful than before

but its at least + gameplay in a way thats not miserable

[chrome palm]

Eh

[maiden oar]

low bar but ds and fb do not meet it

[lilac stag]

No parry. Perma Tricks. We love trickster.

[upbeat smelt]

Coup feels great to use tho, specialty for the cleave it has

[maiden oar]

also i like the coup noise

but thats not gameplay

i just like the chop chop swish

[upbeat smelt]

just wish they made the vfx for it shadowy if playing sub

[chrome palm]

It just feels so deflated with no cdr, not being able to go 17s on secret -> coup -> secret

[lilac stag]

Looking for gameplay in midnight.

[maiden oar]

true!

[chrome palm]

That’s what made trickster fun for me

[maiden oar]

its not as fun as it was

[chrome palm]

Or the idea of giga holding coup

[maiden oar]

but its still better than the other 2

[warm marlin]

sectec coup coup with 20 FF stacks

[maiden oar]

yea i will miss infinity ff

[maiden oar]

i choose to believe.

[chrome palm]

God forbid your burst spec has an actual cd sequence

That isn’t just hit secret technique

[maiden oar]

does any spec have a sequence now

[warm marlin]

I hit my macro and then I 12121212

[chrome palm]

Maybe ww

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[chrome palm]

Not really though

Not like a cd sequence

[maiden oar]

i might be on ww for a little bit due to roster (our brew gone for a few days)

so i will see

[chrome palm]

It seems like all of the energy specs are just kinda being ignored

ww and feral just not getting any notes and rogue just gets tuning

[maiden oar]

sad

[upbeat smelt]

What tooltip do you guys display for dance/sectech macro?

[warm marlin]

sectec but i play hidden bars

[chrome palm]

secret technique, but you should track both

in the cdm

[maiden oar]

dance but i only look at cdm

[upbeat smelt]

Yeah I m trying to stop looking at my buttons, maybe I should just hide them

[warm marlin]

i found it easier to adapt to than expected

i was worried i'd just forget everything but it really wasnt that bad

[uneven scarab]

maybe apex helps but unfortunately i just find aoe quite boring now

[upbeat garden]

In midnight sometimes u hit BP twice in a row

[uneven scarab]

[upbeat garden]

Also for me, on beta compared to prepatch, secret tech is a lot higher

Close to BP

[cursive tundra]

just did a few 15s on beta with sub

I like it

it's braindead as fuck

but it lets me focus on kicks and mechanics

[upbeat garden]

I cant, cuz I have to concentrate on 2 buttons

Not miss a BP

[cursive tundra]

i like that we have uptime even in bluetooth range

if I have to step out of shit, shuriken storm and black powder still hits

[uneven scarab]

black powder can get wonky though

[hazy breach]

But youre still losing auto attacks

[uneven scarab]

you might only hit half the targets you intend if ur far

And that

[hazy breach]

Which is real bad, especially during dance

[cursive tundra]

i'm not saying I choose to play in range just for fun, but I have been trying to learn outlaw and make that spec work

but it falls apart so incredibly badly if you lose uptime

and I can't get used to it

[uneven scarab]

Outlaw has been that way for a long time tbf

losing any uptime is real bad for OL

[cursive tundra]

its not ideal, but much less punishing on sub i feel like

[uneven scarab]

well we lost our cdr so in theory it is less

but still not ideal

[hollow spear]

It definitely used to be worse with the cdr on finishers

[plush roost]

1 second of lost uptime with sub = no apex coup i cry

[hazy breach]

Ye melee uptime is deceptively important on sub since so much of your combo point generation comes from it

[plush roost]

It feels insanely importsnt in ST

In aoe its less of a big deal cause ur overcapping with storm but holy samole in ST lost uptime just screws your dances or forces more pooling

[cursive tundra]

yeah apex is really cool as well

unpopular opinion but I like sub

[plush roost]

Idk if its that unpopular

Ive been having fun since i kept going back to it on beta lmao

[hazy breach]

Depends on whether you played sub because "shadowy ninja guy kinda cool" or " aschually my spec is very complicated "

The first group is mostly happy whereas the second group...not as much

[uneven scarab]

im very glad they leaned more into the clones part of sub as that was one of my favorite themes it had

more of that is good

[swift tinsel]

I think I'll be happier once its midnight

I'm content as it is now

[uneven scarab]

idk, not having any maintenance in aoe is probably just whats messing with me, it just feels a bit slow now

but im happy w it either way

[swift tinsel]

or I'll be less happy if things are scuffed at launch and stay that way

[keen dome]

Also the third category that just likes the colour purple

[uneven scarab]

Trueee

Probably why i like arcane and sub so much

purple bis color

[swift tinsel]

I think of it like an underdog spec like feral where no one really knows anything about it lol

which makes it more fun when I'm stylin on my guild in logs

I'm interested to see what tier sets we get in s2/s3, and if they do any iterating on talents

latter isn't likely but eh

[dire jolt]

oof, this was a bit spicy going in unprepared, I proced cheat death at the end lol.

[swift tinsel]

very nice

[vale pine]

what if you liked both the theme and the depth of gameplay?

[swift tinsel]

I still haven't found daggers that I like to transmog with that set

they're all close-ish but not quiiiite there

[dire jolt]

GOOD NEWS, you can use swords now

"I can show you the world!"

[swift tinsel]

ye I have swords that work okay with it

[vale pine]

only for transmog

[swift tinsel]

but I perfer daggers for the most part

[dire jolt]

Transmog is all that matters haha

[vale pine]

you miss out on the real dps gains then

having a badass house is +10% dps

[swift tinsel]

I would like them to add a Hidden Blade style fist weapon

[vale pine]

while a good transmog is 5% at most

[swift tinsel]

just for me

[dire jolt]

being able to mog swords over daggers has been the best part of this prepatch

[vale pine]

true

[swift tinsel]

I usually chill with the heroic nerubar set

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[swift tinsel]

I really like the color, its my favorite amongst all of the color schemes in the game

[dire jolt]

I don't have to play Outlaw to use my void elf swords with my void elf heritage set

[swift tinsel]

its not as purple but I love it lol

I have the mythic set saved as well for when I'm feelin purps

[keen dome]

I'm sad the purple is now unobtainable

[velvet hawk]

It looks like druid CM

[swift tinsel]

saaaame

[dire jolt]

Edgy shadow-boi

[swift tinsel]

though I do like how they made it so you can transmog any leather set across classes with the lemix tier sets

so I can be an Astral Warden rogue lol

[dire jolt]

I've done that for a long itme with old offsets

Sadly Blizzard stopped making it possible to get full offsets in raids

[keen dome]

Yeah, a sad day 🙁

[swift tinsel]

I also keep forgetting to check bmah for t3 sets

I got a piece or two while camping underbelly rares lol

since the legion bmah is right there

also trying to put together an Assassins Creed Syndicate mog has me realllllllly wishing they had dyes

[dire jolt]

for a long time I loved putting DKs in paladin sets

There's apparently a bug floating around that lets you mog the HD t2 sets off class

[runic verge]

I'm sure you guys have discussed it a ton in here, but are there any popular addons that people are using for sub?

[swift tinsel]

Wangbar

[dire jolt]

I'm so excited to try the apex talents, I hope they fill the shadow fantasy I want

[plush roost]

Wangbar is the defacto truth ill say it

Fast, reliable, home grown, customizable, allows u to type /wang

Biggus DoubleYouus

[hazy breach]

Locally produced organic addons

[eager latch]

gmo and microplastic free?

i hear awang vapes

[slate marlin]

ofc, hes a cool guy

[vestal escarp]

Let us see no?

Post

[plush roost]

Wdym

[vale pine]

he wants a screenshot

[alpine wraith]

you need to get the secret dino bar

[plush roost]

He wants a screenshot of my wang?

Sheeeeesh

[woeful wren]

@plush roost hows the overall looking after nerf

[red vortex]

8% less

[swift tinsel]

It’s for the people

[random comet]

I only have a screenshot of a screen-wide wang

Bar

And when I made it work on monk

So all my wangmedia is scuffed

[plush roost]

Im not at pc ill show my wang a bit later

[plush roost]

Idk only lose to devour unh and arcane rn

[slate marlin]

is yours more fat than big or more big than fat?

[plush roost]

My wang is pretty long and skinny

Its pretty similar to Devlins in tww

Not that im comparing wang

[slate marlin]

nono ofc, but devlin clearly has the superior wang

[plush roost]

Well he had W(ang)A(ugmentation) mine is just natty

Not that im comparing

[slate marlin]

oh i take it back then

i bow before your wang

i kneel for it

[woeful wren]

lock rinsed me the other day

seems they are not nerf'd

[plush roost]

Oh yeah warlock is strong too

[normal compass]

I was smoking arcane in ST but as soon as the "execute" threshold was reached I was gapped right at the end

Feels bad

[woeful wren]

Wait until u get a brew right up ur ass

They are doing stupid dmg

[chrome palm]

i thought their execute was removed?

[plush roost]

Just wait till you play with a good arcane mage

2nd boss seat 3 target

XDD

[slate marlin]

That should be a good assa boss

[plush roost]

Youd think itd be a good outlaw boss too...

[slate marlin]

When assa is tuned better

[steel zinc]

What trinkets are you running on beta rn?

[slate marlin]

Probably, unless tuned bad

[plush roost]

Feather + alnseeker

Feathwr set to mastery

[steel zinc]

ty will test a bit tomorrow see whats up

[sick basin]

Is this post recent arcane changes?

[jolly crescent]

Sooo ... kinda weird question about the last apex talent:
"After attacks that generate combo points, if 5 or more stacks of Shadow Techniques remain, your next damaging finishing move will expend them to generate combo points up to your max."

So my problem with this talent is that instead of just rotating between builder <-> spender, I sometimes get to do spender twice in a row ... but that ends up replacing a shadowstrike which the current (broken?) damage meter indicates does more damage than a max combo point eviscerate.

And thats if I'm overflowing with shadow technique points. This double spender moment often depletes my shadow technique points, resulting in me having to use an extra builder ... which is now backstab instead of shadowstrike (big damage loss).

Doesn't the shadow techniques points flow better into eachother without the last apex talent? and we still get the same number of finishers, and even more shadowstrikes. And can place the talent point somewhere else.

Am I crazy?

[hazy breach]

Shadowstrike does not do more damage than eviscerate

[alpine wraith]

you strike at full cp to get apex not because it does a ton of dmg

although wm and other clone things do help

[jolly crescent]

So you guys still feel that the last apex talent is worth it?
Even if it replaces:
shadowstrike -> eviscerate -> shadowstrike -> eviscerate -> backstab (ends at 2 combo points)
with,
shadowstrike -> eviscerate -> eviscerate -> backstab -> backstab (ends at 3 combo points)
?

I'm a complete noob btw, so I'm not really trying to argue either way, just trying to understand

[tepid trellis]

apex is quite strong espeically when most of your dmg comes from Eviscerates

[chrome palm]

The last apex point is strong primarily because it allows finishers (eviscerate) to activate the first apex point

[hazy breach]

Also i think youre missunderstanding something. The apex does not, in any way, make you get less combo points

[jolly crescent]

I didn't realize that at all ... so instead of a copy of shadowstrike at 50%, it can make a copy of Coup de Grace at 50? That does sound kinda strong

[hazy breach]

The shadow technique stacks are used all the same

[tepid trellis]

just a random log from beta raid testing

[hazy breach]

Yes

[chrome palm]

Right, and since it is shadow damage / shadow clone damage, there are a lot of talents which explicitly buff it

[finite carbon]

I don’t play sub so sorry for popping my head in where it’s likely not wanted, but I just wanted to pop in and say the one simplification I have always been upset with and want back is what happened to positionals?

I wish ONE spec still had actual backstabs or a bonus for being behind the target. Such a wasted rogue-specific aspect to things that was lost in service of simplification.

[warm marlin]

you still have to stand behind them for find weakness from backstab

[chrome palm]

It you have a real reason for positional attacks then the spec is just going to be balanced to do the same damage while behind the target, meaning if you can’t be behind the target you’ll just be worse than everyone else

[jolly crescent]

I don't quite understand ... how can shadowstrike have higher average damage per cast&hit than eviscerate, but eviscerate is still more dps?

[finite carbon]

copy pastas are fun

[chrome palm]

Maybe you don’t have much mastery or maybe you don’t have the right talents

[tepid trellis]

99 casts vs 30

[hazy breach]

Well the screenshot has multiple hits from evsicerate and shadowstrike lumped in together

[tepid trellis]

if i open strike

the actual strike is 30k

where as Evis you also have to account of Coup de Grace casts

[radiant swift]

wait is standing behind the target actualy a thing?

[tepid trellis]

technically

for backstab

[radiant swift]

were u a fair amount of time out of cds backstabing?

u just did less than at bosses like dimmy?

[tepid trellis]

we spent more time out of dance than in dance yes

[plush roost]

ye

[tepid trellis]

nah you can could still count as being behind him if you walked far out to sides

it was more annoying on Fractillus

[radiant swift]

damn that are some nuances - idk if thats realy game enhancing

[tepid trellis]

its stuck in 2003

and needs to get the fuck out

[eager latch]

lmfao

[radiant swift]

well so i still have to do this going into midnight then

dope

[jolly crescent]

So when I cast eviscerate 99 times some of those gets copied so it hits for a total of 209 times with an average damage of 21.9k:
Eviscerate damage per cast: 209 x 21.9k / 99 cast = 46.23k / cast
Likewise when I cast shadowstrike 30 times it gets copied so it hits for a total of 56 times with an average damage of 27.3k:
Shadowstrike damage per cast: 56 x 27.3k / 30 cast = 50.96k / cast

Soo ... shadowstrike casts are higher damage per cast? 😛

[hazy breach]

No

[radiant swift]

is there like any section that covers all these smaller nuances that i need to be aware off or will there be like a wowhead section mybe? @tepid trellis

[tepid trellis]

it doesent really matter

its more backstab dmg but it does fuck all

so as long as you FW buff is up

then it doesent matter

[radiant swift]

dont the small nuances come to % at some point

are you actively tracking FW?

[brisk onyx]

1. It's currently impossible to track FW now lol
2. Even if it were possible, tracking a buff with up-time 99% wouldn't make much sense.

[dire jolt]

WoW needs to copy FF14 more where if you can't hit positionals on a boss that the boss doesn't have them and counts as all

[hazy breach]

They do

With parry

Its just that specifically 20% more damage on sub rogues backstab thats doing 2% of their damage does not get adjusted

[warm marlin]

delete shadowed finishers 🙂

[brisk onyx]

[hazy breach]

Remember when wowhead posted the tooltips of all the new talents for midnight and they didnt mention the extra shadow hit, just "30% more damage when find weakness is up"

And we were like Pog no more shadowed finishers!

[tepid trellis]

we were all so happy

just for a major SIKE

[hazy breach]

And then they were like "nah nothing changed"

[tepid trellis]

dont get why it doesent just do that

its so silly

[hazy breach]

They were gonna introduce these apex talents that do a shadow hit anyway

So why keep the regular one

[normal compass]

Oh did it? It didn't feel like it :x

[dire jolt]

Y'all don't like the apex?

[hazy breach]

Thats not got a clone animation attached to it

[hazy breach]

Shadowed finisher doesnt make sense with the apex

They do the same thing except apex is cooler and more interesting in every way

[warm marlin]

Apex is bueno, SF is not

I'd personally prefer if FW was shot altogether

Or just remove backstab applying it

and make it dance only

[swift tinsel]

that'd be poggies

dance-only

if not straight yeeted

[brisk onyx]

dance only, and ignores 100% armor lol

[swift tinsel]

or more thematically makes all of our damage shadow

[brisk onyx]

Just like before

[swift tinsel]

which does the same thing

[hazy breach]

Shadow blades should make all our spells (or all our finishers) shadow damage

Instead of adding small extra hits

[swift tinsel]

ye

[hazy breach]

Just stop adding small extra hits for x% of the hit, just buff the initial spells instead so we can have our big crits back

[swift tinsel]

also our builder sharing a name with a damage school that does not do that school of damage

[hazy breach]

Get rid of sectech being 3 hits, get rid of coup being 6 hits

Idk

[alpine wraith]

one day man

one day

[swift tinsel]

yeah lots of annoyance points

that's sub baby

[dire jolt]

I stupid want the shadow dot back from WoD

[tepid trellis]

[brisk onyx]

seriously, one of my kids asked me: why doesn't shadow strike deal shadow damage?

[chrome palm]

Fun fact

[swift tinsel]

or shadowstrike damage

[chrome palm]

Shadowstrike is a damage type in the game

[swift tinsel]

^^

[chrome palm]

That shadowstrike doesn’t do

[swift tinsel]

exactamundo

love that friction

[tepid trellis]

tbf it used to

[dire jolt]

It was WoD right or was it Legion?

[chrome palm]

Kinda exemplary of rogues design evolution

[tepid trellis]

if you mean nightblade

its legion

WoD sub had just rupture

[dire jolt]

I must have remembered prepatch then

Cause I was giggling with shadowblade in my garrison

[tepid trellis]

in legion prepatch we got both shadowblades and nightblade

[jolly crescent]

@tepid trellis
What was the program you screenshotted before? some sim?

[tepid trellis]

i dont actually remember which version of shadowblades we got tho

[alpine wraith]

warcraftlogs

[dire jolt]

I'm the only person who really loved Legion's spec identity push I feel sometimes.

[tepid trellis]

if it was the builder dmg

or the auto attack dmg

[tepid trellis]

it was just a log from warcraftlogs

[hazy breach]

Gregers you are probably forgetting to factor in certain talents that affect the Shadowstrike VS Eviscerate comparison, such as shadowed finisher and death perception

Eviscerate does more damage than strike

[dire jolt]

Sub mastery is finishers too no?

[hazy breach]

Yes that too

[dire jolt]

I don't know if tooltips will update for mastery or not. Tooltips also lie.

[jolly crescent]

Yeah I found an error in my calculation above ... I didn't count the 18 coup de grace as eviscerates. Correct would be:
So when I cast eviscerate 99 + 18 times some of those gets copied so eviscerate hits for a total of 209 times with an average damage of 21.9k and coupe de grace for 103 times for 10.7k:
Eviscerate damage per cast: (209 x 21.9k + 103 x 10.7k) / (99+18) cast = 48.53k / cast
Likewise when I cast shadowstrike 30 times it gets copied so it hits for a total of 56 times with an average damage of 27.3k:
Shadowstrike damage per cast: 56 x 27.3k / 30 cast = 50.96k / cast

But the data thats counted in the logs are binned so I'm not sure if I'm missing damage from other bins?

Nimble flurry partially* is from eviscerate

[hazy breach]

It is not

[jolly crescent]

Well, its also from coup de grace which is kinda eviscerate ... but its also from unseen blade 😛

[tepid trellis]

@pliant topaz rate the new character

[winter moon]

was that 8% sub nerf coming in on Tuesday? I thought that was a midnight thing.

[hazy breach]

Among other things yes

Theyre bringing all the midnight tuning changes to prepatch

[winter moon]

their killing me. I still like pushing keys

[alpine wraith]

i still feel sad all LA rogues are girls

they are pretty at least

[lilac stag]

you can still push keys, they’re not turning keys off

[winter moon]

I understand, its just the tuning for midnight doesn't correlate well with prepatch. Our damage was in a decent spot. Some of these other specs are killing it.

[dire jolt]

Not like keys matter right now

[lilac stag]

it’s prepatch. Absolutely no shits should be given. Put key in, turn off the shitty damage meter and just enjoy the game

[dire jolt]

They are not adjusted at all for our new hp scaling

[torn tide]

ye lol everything is so much easier, +12 feels like +5

[harsh meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-mod-moderation-ban-mod-ban-gif-9351874248631360646

[alpine wraith]

oh already nuked

fast hands

[harsh meadow]

Eleem from the shadows

I’m guessing

[swift tinsel]

nah whispyr sniped them

[torn tide]

that was quick af

[alpine wraith]

@tepid trellis mod check who got the head

[tepid trellis]

whisp

[harsh meadow]

Wow lmao

[finite carbon]

man what did i miss?

[eager latch]

is this beta?

[torn tide]

some dude advertising atuff

[harsh meadow]

Just someone selling a scam

[alpine wraith]

the assasin claims another

[lilac stag]

Should be outlaw with that reaction time

[torn tide]

fast mission, mightve been a PB

[tepid trellis]

from The Last Titan yeah

[maiden oar]

get mokoko suit

[warm marlin]

you also need to account for the fact that many eviscerates are cast outside of shadow dance (which buffs them by some 30-50%? some number in that range) while shadowstrike is always cast in dance

[alpine wraith]

can yo still equip the dino onesie to get extra stats

[pliant topaz]

looks like she could 100% fix me

[torn tide]

LOLL based

[graceful crown]

this makes me sad a little

[sullen hare]

Aw man I missed the nuke

[short radish]

someone post the ss black powder gif

[jolly crescent]

This is brilliant ... it took me a long time to understand what you meant!

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/rogue-warcraft-wow-gif-11008475980691198481

[short radish]

ty

[tender dust]

this KR?

[tepid trellis]

no

[tender dust]

Oh is EU?

They brought a new character to the west?

[tepid trellis]

yeh

[tender dust]

Oh cool

[tepid trellis]

yeh this wednesday

[tender dust]

Will check it out looks good.

[dire jolt]

I'm waiting for Domina

[chrome palm]

he just like me

[dense geode]

Do we BP on 2

[alpine wraith]

yes

unless DN or coup are up

[dire jolt]

I'm still waiting for a Deathstalker rework that focuses on poisons and turns the plague bright green

[fossil forge]

Unless deez nuts?

[woeful wren]

MT 15, wasn't insane play or anything. but DS doesn't feel completely dead at least

[torn tide]

i wonder if rogue will actually be above average in midnight, the apex seems really solid

[lucid jackal]

Rogue seems solid overall

[torn tide]

oops i mean sub rogue

[torn tide]

ye seems like every expac rogue like generally in a good place

[plush roost]

Theyre whispering to me to play devourer if its overtuned

[lucid jackal]

Do not

[bleak night]

do it

[plush roost]

Youre gonna have to give marsh an essay on why its a 2 rogue tier

[chrome palm]

ohnonono

well obviously its going to be overtuned

[astral pewter]

just came back to prepatch and it seems sub rogue specifically is super simplified from the previous iteration

even the guides on wowhead, everything seems kinda braindead

[woeful wren]

I thought it was fine until this

now i have doubts

[chrome palm]

gg im rerolling now

[woeful wren]

this was the seat last boss

and i have blades up for the amp

just idk man. so dumb

[chrome palm]

its beta they are buffing/nerfing classes by >15% each wave

of course its gonna be a joke

[woeful wren]

closer to the fkn tank than the mage

[short radish]

yeah dps rankings in beta are kinda a whatever burger

[ivory obsidian]

tbf spellslinger arcane about to get gutted

[woeful wren]

even at that. there's still surv/demo etc. it's cooked

[ivory obsidian]

We will be ok

[chrome palm]

literally doesnt matter

its not like they are done with tuning

a few days ago sub was shitting on everyone

[woeful wren]

it wasn't shitting on everyone tho

[ivory obsidian]

With how massive their tuning has been for two weeks

[woeful wren]

like it was good

[chrome palm]

do you think they are done balancing

[exotic swallow]

Hey yall new rogue here. Which spec for pvp? Can I find a build somewhere?

[chrome palm]

also mage is laughably overtuned

[woeful wren]

i hope the fuck not lol

[tepid trellis]

#pvp

[ivory obsidian]

I feel it’s just arcane right now

[chrome palm]

if you want to complain about rogue you should complain about utility or class design not beta dps

[ivory obsidian]

For mage*

[exotic swallow]

You are a scholar and a gentleman

[plush roost]

Did u play weapon master ist and veil?

[velvet hawk]

Ya they just nerfed sf arcane and oops giga buffed ss arcane. It’ll be nerfed

[ivory obsidian]

Other two specs seem fine now

[chrome palm]

isnt ds like 20% behind trickster

you should be getting gapped for playing ds lets be real

[plush roost]

Oh ds... yeahhhh

[woeful wren]

its worse on cleave for sure

but not ST, or at least shouldn't be

[plush roost]

Its worse on evwrything

[chrome palm]

shouldnt be why

its just tuned bad

[maiden oar]

AOE SHADOW CLONE KIDNEY

PLEASE

let me make 8 grouches who punch every monster in the stomach

[chrome palm]

if we got what hunter got that would be cool ngl

like a 1-2s aoe stun from kidney

[tepid trellis]

we had that for 1 month DF season 3 ptr

[exotic swallow]

That code from the pvp build gave me the talents but I'm not seeing any pvp talents listed

[woeful wren]

@plush roost what am i dropping for wep master

[maiden oar]

i cry so much

[plush roost]

Either tfd or veil

[woeful wren]

feel like tfd isn't as easy to proc atm for some reason every mob casts on u from africa in stealth

[plush roost]

Thats only if u want more ST/prio dam, and yes you shadowstrike in AOE with wm if youre needing prio

[alpine wraith]

tfd takes a bit to get used to

[plush roost]

Ye i did some no tfd keys today and it wasnt bad

[alpine wraith]

and also depends on dungeon

[woeful wren]

running 587 or

[plush roost]

694 or smthn

[maiden oar]

playing around the ring procs is bad right

because delay sectech for any rfeason = disaster

[plush roost]

Ye u just send sec tec on cd no delay

[maiden oar]

ok wahoo

[chrome palm]

which ring

[maiden oar]

i dont know what its called

[woeful wren]

@plush roost are u delaying 2nd dance during blades?

[plush roost]

If u play 684 haste u can sec tec twice in blades and everything lines up

[woeful wren]

to build some stacks or some shit

[plush roost]

To last 7~ seconds ye

For sec tec basically

[woeful wren]

fair

[plush roost]

Idk if its actually better to play 684 or 200 tho

[woeful wren]

does apex fully work with coup

[plush roost]

Im probably gonna try low haste tonight

Yes

Coup apex crank

[woeful wren]

finality must be stonks then no?

[plush roost]

Finality is uh... a talent

I tried it today

This was the ST felt weird without WM

[maiden oar]

Funky Golf Shirts Await

[plush roost]

!!!

#AD

[woeful wren]

does pre key sec tech still work

[plush roost]

It wasnt working for me earlier, neither was supercharger

[woeful wren]

sadge

[lucid jackal]

Low key, every tier is a 2 rogue tier

[maiden oar]

why is that

[lucid jackal]

Because rogue is always sleeper good

[plush roost]

I lowkey think it will be too

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[plush roost]

Sub seems very very good for these fights

[maiden oar]

i am so lucky to be a rogue player

[bleak night]

[astral axle]

[lucid jackal]

I mean last tier was a 2 rogue tier

Mugzee was low key a 3 rogue fight

The thing is every 2 rogue fight, is low key a 3 rogue fight

Like idk, rogue is insanely undervalued

But we always play 2 rogue on roster

Rasz we played double rogue, amirdrasil we played 3, low key could have played 4

[astral axle]

https://tenor.com/view/party-in-provincetown-gif-26843974

me and who discussing rogue boss optimization?

[alpine wraith]

double rogue is fine people just dont capitalize on it enough

trust this time for sure

[maiden oar]

me and my shadow clones

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/gachi-oh-shit-a-am-sorry-gachimuchi-gif-13510847

[hazy breach]

The Hunter aoe stun is capped at 5 targets btw

So we do not want that specifically

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yd3fN8mjbAJTgF2a?fight=4&type=damage-done&pull=15

casual doing some excellent sandbagging

well done king

sub buffs on the way

not the low haste crit build with no crit chance and high versa

[upbeat garden]

wdym ,u cant compare to those players

pardon me ,those classes

[plush roost]

Ye but im also doing more than 60k boss dps to crawth

[bleak night]

https://klipy.com/gifs/what-do-you-mean-you-people-1

[upbeat garden]

casual wont play rogue anyway ,he doesnt care

[chrome palm]

I would trade airborne/gouge for that easily sure

[chrome palm]

Casual said

If blizzard doesn’t care he doesn’t care

Or something like that

[lilac stag]

Too many buttons on sub.

[upbeat garden]

warlock has the same buttons ,mage also ,the only diff is the numbers

[chrome palm]

Idk about the others but sub isn’t exactly very intuitive

[upbeat garden]

rn most classes play the same ,u do that in order to do the other thing

[chrome palm]

Overcapping resources is never intuitive

[upbeat garden]

the cp refun ?

[chrome palm]

Yes

[upbeat garden]

Yes ,thats something a new rogue will ignore almost

and think he didnt press the button

[chrome palm]

What button

[upbeat garden]

u press BP ,but u have cp full again

is it not concerning

[maiden oar]

with no aoe blind what are the odds we play gouge

[upbeat garden]

hahaha

[chrome palm]

What are the odds you play rogue

[maiden oar]

hehehe

[chrome palm]

I think someone said it but

[upbeat garden]

On beta and prepatch I only use the single stuns I dont use blind anymore

[chrome palm]

If no aoe blind you 100% play gouge

[upbeat garden]

and they are enough

blizzard was right

[chrome palm]

Because why would you want 1 24s st stop vs 1 1 min stop and an extra 24s stop

[tepid trellis]

Cant wait to play sub for the 10th tier in a row

[lilac stag]

Devourer ?

[chrome palm]

I just don’t want to be treated like a second class citizen in lfg lul

[lilac stag]

Play a tank then

[tepid trellis]

I dont lfg

[lilac stag]

Rogue to Tank is the m+ evolution

[chrome palm]

Too stressful

I cannot with these utility roles man

[lilac stag]

Sub rogue too easy, but doesn’t want more of a challenge…

[chrome palm]

I never want to tank or heal

I just wanna play my shape rotator spec in peace

[tepid trellis]

Sub Will be the meta in raid again. And the outlaw people Will mald again

Tale as Old as time

[upbeat garden]

If u hold secret tech for the right moment u can even be top dam on a boss

[lilac stag]

Outlaw players will never be happy. Their anger gives them reason to live.

[chrome palm]

Wonder if outlaw sees daylight on paladins or dragons

[warm marlin]

any reasonable outlaw player knows that spec is dead in raid

[chrome palm]

For muh cleave spec

Sub 2 tar pretty piss

[warm marlin]

would i rather do 5% less 2 target because my spec is worse or do 5% less 2 target because my mainhand is 20 ilvls down

[chrome palm]

Is minibingus not outlaw?

Minimesser I think will be

For the outlaw boss that is for sure happening

[hazy breach]

They don't even have the tankiness argument left

[warm marlin]

im undecided

[hazy breach]

Now sub is the tanky one

[tepid trellis]

Shit spec ong

[hazy breach]

Obviously it's a bit of fake data, but the death statistics on wcl has sub dying fewest times out of all DPS

[chrome palm]

Real to me

I want to believe

[hazy breach]

Fake might be the wrong word,but it's prepatch raid data

Not fully representative

[lilac stag]

careful eleem. Setting us up for more nerfs.

[warm marlin]

minibingus might be a dk

or enh

split2 will have to suffer without atrophic

the horror

[tepid trellis]

Im DH alt

[warm marlin]

im clean of havoc

[tepid trellis]

Chillmaxing alt

[warm marlin]

and i think we'll have 18 devourer alts

[chrome palm]

Our gm doesn’t trust melee players on dev dh hehehe

[magic cliff]

[chrome palm]

gg

[warm marlin]

also if it's outlaw it has to be dwarfbingus

and dwarf is too ugly

humanbingus is much more appealing

[chrome palm]

I am dwarf monk for third toon

[magic cliff]

Goatbingus or bust

[chrome palm]

I got successfully bullied off human for those goofy animations

[warm marlin]

think of the money ill save on glamours

[hazy breach]

Where is mechabingus

[warm marlin]

I dont even have mechagnome unlocked

[hazy breach]

Smh my head not minmaxxing simdps

[warm marlin]

the good part about being a dh was that all the races are acceptable

[magic cliff]

Mechabingus is a good idea

Pandabingus?