subtlety

[proven wraith]

ass*

[plush roost]

Youre also required to have deathmark on every boss start to have 2 and one of then in execute, u have to play puzzlebox, your damage is good in execute and lingering darkness windows but those are only 35% of a packs lifetime

Its just missing something, i personally think buff fok or poison bombs aoe dam

[vestal escarp]

From what you say it's defo lacking a sustained aoe backbone

[plush roost]

Yeah bleeds do a ton but the ramp is so long your demo frost mage killed the smallies already

Gonna test again this weekend with 10% mob hp buff but idk

Undertuned imo

[upper narwhal]

I wanna play some sub on prepatch but I cba farming any haste gear

[reef walrus]

recraft some jewelry to haste?

just a ring + neck, changing enchants and maybe having some random items with some haste can go a long way already

and if you've still got dinars left, dimmy ring is for sale and has a massive amount of haste

[upper narwhal]

I don’t think I even have crafted jewellery cuz I rolled bis from vault a few times, would need to farm crafting sparks

I want to play prepatch without playing prepatch

[reef walrus]

I think just buying new ring enchants and socketting only heavy haste/crit gems is a good 8% ish extra haste?

[lilac stag]

starts with S. Always S tier.

[fathom adder]

belt in the tier set machine gives 30+ haste as well

set shoulders

[lilac stag]

the cloak fiber

Just swap that, gem and enchant and play around. Not that difficult.

[dry plank]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/holy-paladin-class-tuning-on-midnight-beta-tomorrow-380200
we need to learn to complain as baladins (we have like 10 times less playerbase)

[lilac stag]

I mean we went from full on hasted mutton’s to a much better version or what was first introduced

screaming for another button to press, glhf

assa is still true to Assa. outlaw channel is never going to be happy with anything under 80 apm

[red vortex]

outlaw channel is never going to be happy with anything under 80 apm*

[slate marlin]

they should rework goremaw

[lilac stag]

I was attempting to start the day off positive and give them the benefit of doubt.

[chrome palm]

maybe assa is a demon on last two but otherwise raid looks pretty awful for them

[lilac stag]

Of course they should. Is it exactly a high priority? Nope. Spec is playable.

[chrome palm]

just a tuning question as always

[lilac stag]

pretty sure playable is the goal for launch

[slate marlin]

yeah with time they will add new stuff

as its the cycle with every single pruning

[lilac stag]

pmuch

[slate marlin]

as long as what they add is purple

ill be happy

[lilac stag]

I’m just glad we didn’t get left with the initial version

[slate marlin]

oh yeah, the hasted nightmare

[tribal blade]

they need to delete smallies from M+

it's so annoying

looking through some dungeons to figure out why my dmg was low, like 1st pull ara kara

realize my dmg on the normal mobs was fine

just didn't pad hard enough on the small shitter mobs

[vale pine]

you don't need another button, there are other ways to add gameplay depth

[tribal blade]

in before shots sectec

[vale pine]

that would be rly nice

[tribal blade]

😉

it would be

[chrome palm]

the hpal changes recently as of last night look to be very well received, so hopefully they do more changes to other specs since so many people are not happy with how their spec plays in midnight

[vale pine]

i actually get less of a fan of the long dances

then more i play

also haste feels rly bad whenever you are at a value you can't fit another gcd, but barely

[tribal blade]

i'm actually slightly worried they introduce something new to sub because people are complaining about it being too simple

and then it becomes incredibly unintuitive all over again

but given the history of devs working on sub, prob more likely nothing changes

[vale pine]

i mean, i am not saying the current iteration is bad

but

The things addes all come with a drawback

haste affecting secret means cooldowns don't line up naturally like on almost every other spec in the game

[tribal blade]

yeah that's a weird one

[vale pine]

haste affecting dance means we lose control over how many gcd's we are able to fit in shadow dance

[tribal blade]

seems like they want to keep stuff not lining up as sub's rotation identity lol

[vale pine]

and potentially need to use macros with storm/secret to fix that

haste with dance also means we potentially require 20 sec of constant uptime during cooldowns, something thats tricky to do with certain boss designs

[tribal blade]

i don't know the solution for hasted dance

[chrome palm]

remove

[tribal blade]

simple

elegant

[chrome palm]

or

i was going to say inevitability with dance but that might be aids

thats like missing a global nightmare nvm

[tribal blade]

MMM taht's kinda interesting

you could put a cap on it

maybe

[chrome palm]

and you would never dance at max cp

[tribal blade]

you can only extend dance so much

[chrome palm]

yeah that would be bad

[tribal blade]

probably yeah

[chrome palm]

if being outside of dance wasnt literally pointless then you would probably not worry too much about having a long dance

but the gameplay outside of dance is now "wait for dance"

[tribal blade]

did you play wod?

[chrome palm]

nope

[tribal blade]

during wod there was a thing with rupture where multistrike (a stat) hits would make rupture tick and bleed out faster

and i can't remember exactly how it worked, but that happened more in dance iirc

so you would apply a full rupture, dance and your rupture would tick down mega quick in dance

was actually very cool

[reef walrus]

ambush & backstab multistrikes would cause rupture to tick instantly yeah

and you could spam ambushes in dance

[tribal blade]

yeahhh

[reef walrus]

much more frequently than you could spam backstabs out of it

[tribal blade]

was actually kinda sick to watch a full rupture just go BLAMBLAMBLAM gone in 1 dance

[reef walrus]

yeah we stacked multistrike back then as well

[tribal blade]

was thinking they could maybe make some sort of thing with that, but we don't have rupture anymore

[reef walrus]

I remember my gear was absolutely absurd in that tier, with almost every piece warforged & socketted

so I had something silly like 65% multistrike

[tribal blade]

that tier was fun, the trinky off archimonde giving more ambush dmg was very cool

[chrome palm]

i think cdr just plays really well, and its more intuitive than having to hit haste breakpoints

[reef walrus]

that tier was silly af

with the ring and soul cap

[tribal blade]

oh true yeah

i think you would have enjoyed that iteration messer

[fervent leaf]

anyone could share me his cooldown manager string for sub pls

[reef walrus]

praying that you got a second soul cap procc just as the ring exploded

so you could funnel the ring explosion into a soul cap and then amplify that even further

[tribal blade]

i think if only 1 spell has cdr it's fine

or are you thinking of sectec also having cdr

[chrome palm]

i was going to say something similar

having symbols has a limiter is familiar

so idk how it would play if you could cdr everything but blades basically

you probably solve that by just having shorter cds with less cdr than before

dance was already low cdr

and i dont think hitting secret technique often is bad

[tribal blade]

don't think so either

[chrome palm]

but currently on betaj

[tribal blade]

oh shit

[chrome palm]

the cd of secret technique is really annoying

[tribal blade]

how about haste affects the rate at which you cdr dance and sectec

[chrome palm]

because if you have lust or pi or even TFD

secret technique just keeps happening at different points in your blades

[tribal blade]

oh yeah it's wonky af

[chrome palm]

(the 2nd cast)

its super bad

if its cdr, its almost always the same point every time

[tribal blade]

i noticed it during our first reclear during prepatch

[chrome palm]

super easy to play around

its worse in m+ for obvious reasons

[tribal blade]

i couldn't get a handle on when exactly sectec would come back up during 1st blades

[chrome palm]

and now

you have to evaluate not only the value of haste

but haste (stat) and haste (buff) separately

[tribal blade]

holy shit

this is a WA moment right here

to calculate it for you

[chrome palm]

i mean it only changes one cast right

but it just feels weird

[tribal blade]

yeah for sure

i definitely kept getting thrown off

it being that hard to predict

[chrome palm]

yeah exactly

i mean having secret being on every dance would make the spec play so much better

like not to retread old ground but

spec is super inflexible on beta

[reef walrus]

I'm especially worried next expansion

what is going to happen s1

[chrome palm]

only point in two dances is for blades etc

s1 is gonna be a mess for sure

[reef walrus]

when we won't have enough haste and could have like a 22 sec sec tec cooldown

[chrome palm]

i mean youre in charge of how much haste you have

[reef walrus]

so you have to sometimes just dance back to back to not waste any dance cooldowns

[chrome palm]

but also

this iteration of sub in s2

is even worse

because you have (probably) no haste on use

[haughty mural]

seems like they want to keep stuff not lining up as sub's rotation identity lol

[chrome palm]

and you have no 20s blades

so there is no hope for 2nd secret in blades

[haughty mural]

i observe this on a few specs right now

atleast which i play

[tribal blade]

it's actually incredibly weird how they baked the old blades duration into the S1 set

[chrome palm]

they just did two huge reworks to hpal so surely they arent done

[chrome palm]

idk

that makes more sense for outlaw

[tribal blade]

yeah outlaw gaining or losing buff uptime doesn't drastically change the spec

[haughty mural]

tried to line things up on arms on dummies the other day

im glad sub does not have the cdr mess anymore

[reef walrus]

I really enjoyed cdr as a mechanic

I'm sad they've removed it from so many specs already now

pretty much all specs iirc?

[chrome palm]

i am too but you could put the things that made cdr good for sub back into sub without cdr

also idk why they kept saying that downtime was bad for sub

like dawnbreaker was insane for sub

because of hte huge downtime

[reef walrus]

more than that, I personally think it just felt nice to see your cooldowns tick down very fast

[tribal blade]

yeah it's why DB was my favorite dungeon minus the bugs

[haughty mural]

different cdr on different cd lengths and stuff can create a lot of weird problems and friction

[tribal blade]

lining stuff up in DB was incredibly easy

[chrome palm]

downtime for sub is like having free time to recharge cds

which are better than anyone elses cds

[haughty mural]

also punishes downtime harder

[swift tinsel]

Did they mean within-fight downtime

[chrome palm]

could you provide examples of cdr being problematic in raid?

[swift tinsel]

Where you can’t get tfd value

[chrome palm]

i never thought "ah i didnt have uptime on the boss now my cds arent aligning!"

that just never happened for me personally

[reef walrus]

I remember having it a few times on gallywix mythic

[chrome palm]

cdr means that you can almost afk for parts of the fight

and you can absorb that

because instead of cds being tied to real time

theyre tied to combo points

[tribal blade]

what tended to happen was you adjusted the amount of dances you could send based on uptime iirc

[chrome palm]

which you can control with dance

[chrome palm]

i get that

but i cant think of any examples of this actually being the case

and the spec plays worse with downtime now

because you just lose a cast of secret technique

and you have no mechanism to get it back

[tribal blade]

yeah sectec is mega weird

atm

i go back and forth between thinking it's a good thing to make the spec not brain dead, but also it makes everything feel completely off

[chrome palm]

dont need cdr in the spec but haste is not the replacement anyone wants i think thats not controversial

[reef walrus]

I don't think haste is the worst solution they could've made

[hazy breach]

Atleast the trickster cdr works now

[chrome palm]

oh nice

[reef walrus]

since it does now mean we're not deathly allergic to any item that has haste on it

[hazy breach]

(on beta)

Or well

[tribal blade]

oh that's big

[chrome palm]

whats that like 2s now

[hazy breach]

It's not cdr,it's recharge time

So the tooltip doesn't update

[tribal blade]

yeah last time i checked it's roughly 2 seconds

[hazy breach]

But it is working

They also made precise killer 20% instead of 40%

[chrome palm]

lets goooo

[hazy breach]

So deathstalker big stinky now

[chrome palm]

put ds in the dirt

[north schooner]

you mean its recharge time is sped up now instead?

[tribal blade]

this is the one time i'm happy they bug fixed a bug giving us more dmg

[hazy breach]

Ye

[tribal blade]

flat ~2.5 seconds reduction

[hazy breach]

Not really

Unless you have 0 haste

[tribal blade]

oh is it based on hasted cd?

[hazy breach]

The cooldown ticks 10% faster

Like autumn

[tribal blade]

ohhhh

[hazy breach]

(except that was 30%)

[tribal blade]

holy shit this is gonna be confusing haha

[chrome palm]

oh maybe thats why it was bugged so long

they shouldve just went for a reduced cd

that is really weird

[tribal blade]

i thought it was gonna just take a flat amount off the base cd

[hazy breach]

Idk it's just dumb

[lilac stag]

Auto Sectech to dance takes away all thinking. Then it’s literally light up spec.

[swift tinsel]

That’s why it should be on blades not dance

[chrome palm]

ironically more thinking than you currently have

at least you decide when you dance then lol

[north schooner]

wouldn't it be 22.7 at 0 haste? (if it's just normal_cd / mod_rate)

[hazy breach]

My guess is that something gets wonky on the backend with reduced cooldown and hasted cds

[hazy breach]

Yes you're right

[lilac stag]

It should be on neither. Add a low dmg ability on x cd timer that instantly resets Sectech. Gives players something to focus on as well as choice on when to use.

[swift tinsel]

You just want it on goremaws

[lilac stag]

Eleem mentioned something along those lines

[haughty mural]

did i hear

[lilac stag]

Would literally let you move your cd burst to where you want it and when

[swift tinsel]

Which wouldn’t be the worst thing

[lilac stag]

sure swap out energy for Sectech reset. Fade to the Shadows. Call it whatever. Idc

Auto triggers ain’t it imo

[chrome palm]

what a nice idea for sub

[swift tinsel]

Take what we had and give it back

Par for the course

not looking at you shadowcraft refunds

[lilac stag]

Dust without all the krangled CDs, just for Sectech.

[hazy breach]

In theory I like making shadowcraft refunds more visible with the apex

[vestal escarp]

No way bro, who gives you these insane ideas

As if

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/will-smith-spaghetti-ai-eating-gif-2796300478009311884

[hazy breach]

🍝

[swift tinsel]

Spaghetti spaghetti everywhere

[vestal escarp]

More coral reef melted for this

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/lasagna-gif-24404602

[red vortex]

thats hot

https://klipy.com/gifs/aww-thats-hot

[swift tinsel]

I didn’t make the gif I just drop it

[vestal escarp]

Ik

[lilac stag]

67

[chrome palm]

its annoying how its harder to predict getting a refund just so they could make it easier to react to it

[lilac stag]

Spec has nothing to think about… what else you focusing on bruh?

[vestal escarp]

I guess outlul is now the braniac spec

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-meme-brain-smooth-chatbubble-gif-16562439958126711181

build spend

[vestal escarp]

Dont they have """"""decision making""""""

[lilac stag]

do I press kir or do I hold.

[swift tinsel]

“Do I pew pew or stab”

Yeehaw cowboy time

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/when-you-dont-want-your-sis-to-get-meryd-gif-15706694

[tribal blade]

i actually like new outlaw quite a bit

just hate KS

[chrome palm]

a lot more than sub

[tribal blade]

if they removed KS it would feel really good

[lilac stag]

They just have more to piano. I wouldn’t call it all that thinking intensive. There’s still no CDs to really worry about. Just a different vibe. Still rogue.

[chrome palm]

they do more decision making based on combo points

because they actually have different builders

[tribal blade]

yeah decision making with builders

and then reacting to what's coming up when

[chrome palm]

they also have decision making for their talents 🙈

[lilac stag]

As always. Play whatever ya find fun. 🫶

[vestal escarp]

We became frost mage

[tribal blade]

i more likely play sub tbh

[lilac stag]

Is that better or worse than BM? Yesterday it was BM

[chrome palm]

perhaps the deciding factor for m+ between sub and outlaw

is whether shaman is in the meta

[vestal escarp]

I think we're defo not at bm levels

[chrome palm]

it might actually be really good for outlaw this time though

[vestal escarp]

Cause bm too got midnighted from actual bm

[lilac stag]

I would agree. Just enjoying the hot takes the past 48 hours.

[vestal escarp]

[tribal blade]

me sitting here not planning on pushing

smiling

relaxing

[lilac stag]

Labyrinths can’t come soon enough

[tribal blade]

the new room i'm building is fucking dope

it's way more precise than anything else i've ever made

[lilac stag]

Nice. I still just have a cave.

[tribal blade]

haha that's the beauty of housing

[lilac stag]

apparently I got a cow stuck in my entryway

They messaged me, I’m stuck between two rocks.

[tribal blade]

lol what

[lilac stag]

So I made my entrance to the house hidden

[tribal blade]

nice i like it

[lilac stag]

It’s a small curvature of stones

[tribal blade]

OH

outdoors

haha that's funny

i didn't know the animals can get stuck

[lilac stag]

You have to jump and twist a bit to reach the porch area

It was a guild member

Haha

Tauren

[tribal blade]

you know the worst part about housing atm is the bugs

you think specs have bugs

fucking housing has hella bugs

[lilac stag]

Oh this was intentional on my part

vE or smaller can sneak in pretty easy

[tribal blade]

oh yeah i went off on a random tangeant haha

you know i'm not sure if a tauren can fit into some of my house

i haven't tested that yet

[real verge]

Hello all! I am looking to possibly make a main swap for Midnight. I've been playing Unholy DK for 15 years now and I just finished leveling my Sub Rogue and had a lot of fun with it, is it looking to be kind of the same in Midnight?

[vale pine]

sorry had ot go afk

[plush roost]

Windfury is more for outlaw than it is sub now

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

but to continue where i left, having static cooldowns now also means you lose dynamic on cooldown use

[plush roost]

Read it and weep

[chrome palm]

aint no way outlaw gets 7.7% for windfury

[plush roost]

Its only 5.2 for sub now

[vale pine]

so now you need to use secret more or less on cooldown

and because of that, you also need to send dance with it

[lilac stag]

Um. Fun is going to be a you thing. Many people are shopping. New is usually shiny. It may be less enjoyable 2 months in or it could be more enjoyable. It’s pretty straight forward gameplay which is a polarizing design for current rogues.

[chrome palm]

on beta its a lot higher

[vale pine]

this creates a way more restrictive enviroment

and then there is apex

[plush roost]

Yo fuu, the !sheet is for beta correct?

[vale pine]

ignoring some of the design problems that lead to cancleaura macros or unintuitive gameplay

[chrome palm]

we sim like >70k on beta

[real verge]

Ah okay, it just has a waaaay higher APM than UDK and I like going in and out of Shadow Dance so much, just seems like a ton of fun, not much downtime

[vale pine]

having even more power in sht means your melee range and uptime is more crucial to your output

[lilac stag]

You’ll probably continue to enjoy it then.

[vale pine]

(even more because aa's are a big part of your overall damage)

[lilac stag]

Having a static gcd is new for many players

[vale pine]

so bottom line is, every change that was made for midnight already made things worse in a sense

does not mean the iteration is bad, some like it, other don't

[plush roost]

Ah nvm it IS a prepatch sheet, so ye probably n ot quite as insane for outlaw

[lilac stag]

@real verge what type of content do you play?

[vale pine]

ye, midnight simulations will come closer to the xpac

^^

[upbeat smelt]

I love it never played with this kind of burst before.

[real verge]

CE in Raid and usually dont go higher than 15s in keys

[upbeat smelt]

Do you guys still think that the haste cap is going to be about 15% at level 90?

[lilac stag]

So the major differences. DK can basically ignore a majority of mechanics. Rogue can ignore a number, just not as easily. Rot dmg is our nemesis.

Sub still has a niche in raid of short bursty cds with two alternate specs with different dmg profiles.

[north schooner]

this is supposed to be the case in beta, right? It's not the case. It seems to be acting as a *.9 mod to the base cooldown so 22.5 base (0 haste) or 25 (*.9 if DS talent) / haste. With 16.93% haste the CD is 19.241 while with just faster cd tick rate it would've been 19.43. The tooltip also updates properly

[lilac stag]

they removed almost all of the confusion that many players new to sub suffered with the setup of shadow dance. Now it’s a few CD checks and then using appropriate builder/spender based on target count.

[harsh meadow]

Is that you in Petko key @chrome palm

https://tenor.com/view/leonardo-dicaprio-rick-dalton-point-finger-pointing-hand-right-there-gif-20349799

[hazy breach]

Ok so the spelldata was just insanely scuffed ig

[north schooner]

might be at least it seems properly fixed

[hazy breach]

Precise killer got hotfixed too,so now it works like all the other crit damage in the tree

Ie 200% to 220% instead of 240%

[north schooner]

is planned execution also like that? It uses a dummy script instead of the usual crit damage mod

[vestal escarp]

Btw blizz was so real for putting rog in cinematic trailer

Tyty

[hazy breach]

It's the weak version yeah

So 210%

[safe tundra]

real

im a new sub player, i dont particularly find it fun but its as fun as feral to me rn and thats all that matters 😭

[vale pine]

critical strike bonus damage is basically 1/2 critical strike damage

[safe tundra]

im kinda hoping assassination is the way to go tho , but itll probably be sub for st fights

[vale pine]

which is not consistent on abilities ^^

[hazy breach]

Except when it's not

Dwarf and enchants are not like that

[vale pine]

is there a spell left where its not now?

dwarf says critical strike damage

without "bonus"

so thats correct

[hazy breach]

Precise doesn't say bonus either

Iirc

[vale pine]

it does iirc

but let me check

i am unsure now too

it does ^^

while dwarf racial

tho wowhead also decives you

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-silly-hello-hi-silly-kitten-cat-wave-hello-gif-15245852903591135367

[vale pine]

ill ask that to be fixed

this was actually changed a while ago

these two versions have critical strike damage (without bonus)

to be absolutely honest, i disslike the use of "damage bonus", it makes things complicated for no reason

all of these effects could just be critical strike damage, and have half of the effectiveness

makes a lot more sense for intuitive understanding

[north schooner]

even their devs get confused

[vale pine]

that too, it is easier to only have one effect in spell data

less surface for mistakes

to be fair to them, they only made the mistake with precise

other effects got implemented correctly

[alpine wraith]

i mean blizz itself forgot and added DS crit dmg twice

before fixing it yday

[lilac stag]

The pacing is way different, even in the 12.0 versions. Cognitive load also will change for different individuals. There’s usually a pretty visible divide of someone liking either assa gameplay or sub game play.

Unless you’re going for HoF typically none of it matters. Play what you enjoy the most and play it the best you can.

Most people new to rogue burn out on it rather quickly. Very rare to have folks stick around more than one tier.

[plush roost]

Did u win

[tulip light]

anyone elese playing with [Cursed Stone Idol] during pre patch? sims highest for me paired with an heroic screams compared to mythic sack

[chrome palm]

i killed the other dps and ruined their overall

yes

[plush roost]

W thats how its done

[chrome palm]

boss put the aoe on me in blades

they had a lot of time to move out

[plush roost]

"Sorry pal, its you or my parse"

[chrome palm]

have you seen the bingus sprocket 100 parse

he murders like 3 people to stay on the boss

[plush roost]

Ye very based

[lilac stag]

It’s fine in keys.

[plush roost]

I cant do that i feel bad

[chrome palm]

ngmi

[tulip light]

ye in keys im testing it vs prism. was just confused about the single target sim results

[chilly kite]

is there even a point to test pre patch for dmg on anything?

[lilac stag]

unless you’re simming 1-3 minute st sims for raids, Lily/Forge + projector will be best raid option. Maybe prism on Dimmy. It all all just fight timing based.

[tulip light]

no not at all i just didnt play rogue in s1-3 and want to press buttons @chilly kite

ah i see

[lilac stag]

pretty much just have some fun testing stuff out.

[chilly kite]

is there anything i need to do before launch, i got my ui setup

[spiral sierra]

chill and vibes for prepatch till midnight 😄

[tulip light]

not rly

[chilly kite]

like item lvl for lvling should be fine if your a mythic raider i assume

gonna be like every expansion where we don't replace anything till like 89

[spiral sierra]

how many ppl changing to haranir when you unlock them :D?

[vale pine]

it was set up as regular critical strike damage, not bonus damage ^^

[chilly kite]

is there a site that tracks race-class balance, i'm betting belf & nelf make up like 65% of all rogues

[warm marlin]

wrong place wrong time

they shoulda cloaked

[tulip light]

when sectech comes up during a dance and we have consumed all super charged cp already do we still send it or wait till next dance? happens for me in the opener

[chilly kite]

in our guild when someone dies to not moving due to someone else its just turned into the he shouldn't have been standing there meme

[tulip light]

@chilly kite guides mention strong options. also consider m+ and pvp which makes races very unbalanced

[warm marlin]

also one of the people I murdered was my gm weeks after passing trial

[chilly kite]

i think your looking a little too into race for pvp, other than nightelf & dwarf racials not many racials really matter that much

give the old human racial back, and we're talking imbalanced in pvp lol but that will never happen

[tulip light]

well i guess it doesnt matter just the strong options are much much stronger than the rest

id argue meld is just as broken but ye

[chilly kite]

meld is broken, but free trinket and being able to free up a trinket slot was imbalanced

[warm marlin]

dwarf is a pretty safe choice

i dont know how it is in pvp but it looks good for raid this tier and its always top2 in m+

[chilly kite]

havnt done any raid testing is there excess bleeds/poisons?

[warm marlin]

nah the crit damage is good

[lilac stag]

Looks Good and dorf. You funny.

[warm marlin]

listen im number 1 dwarf visual hater but they are perma strong racials wise

[spiral sierra]

on beta, what stats and ppl leaning towards for testing?

still vers>haste?

[chilly kite]

i think haste is more important till a breakpoint isn't it

[lilac stag]

oh I get it. They’re dumb little shits when it comes to racials.

[spiral sierra]

gotcha.

[chilly kite]

trolls should be good this xpac don't they get shadow resist or did i mix them up

i've played human in vanilla, then swapped the bloodelf in bc and have only really run bloodelf for pve and orc for pvp for the extra damage during cd's don't really pay attention to other racials

[solemn hedge]

i just play dwarf bc of stoneform. hate the model

[upbeat smelt]

Space rogues #1 fo sho

[surreal willow]

hey guys, quick mechanic question regarding Secret Technique. When Shadow Dance (and sometimes Shadow Blades) is active, I noticed that Secret Technique hits multiple times with shadow clones.
Do I need to wait for the full animation of these hits to finish before using my next skill, or can I start spamming the next ability as soon as the GCD (Global Cooldown) is over without losing any of the clone damage? In general, are there any Sub Rogue abilities where I should wait for the animation, or is it always safe to press the next button immediately as the CD allows?

also, why isn't the Shadowstrike skill included in the cooldown settings?

[tulip light]

animations dont matter. press an ability every global

[vale pine]

you can use your next spell as soon as you can, the only thing you want to do is use secret as soon as possible dring it

[torpid echo]

Backstab tracks Shadowstrike I think

[surreal willow]

nope

[torpid echo]

sadge 🙁

[chrome palm]

its an old talent

not in the game anymore

if youre talking about backstab in the cdm

[chrome palm]

you dont need to track shadowstrike because shadow dance shows when you can cast it

[vale pine]

there are also 2 versions of vanish in it ^^

its a bit weird

the reason the cooldown manager is incomplete is simply a lack of time to polish

midnight releases potentially in an incomplete state, it seems blizz tries hard to fix things last minute

but the amount of change is just very high, so will take a while to stabalize

[final granite]

this being enough for SUB ui feels funny to me

[vale pine]

you can theoretically cut down on utility icons too

[final granite]

ye 100%

was mainly looking at dmg cds

[vale pine]

can add vanish in there if you want ^^

[final granite]

if I were to go M+, I might add Kick and Vanish into main bar. but ye,

[vale pine]

the benefit or drawback of the simplifications

dpending on who you ask ^^

[lunar bluff]

Something seems wrong about this energy bar and combo point addon, not sure what tho

[lilac stag]

will be there soonTM

[chilly kite]

i still find it wierd that they put prep for outlaw and not sub

[lilac stag]

Outlaw is for big brains. Makes plenty of sense. /s

[chilly kite]

i always viewed prep as more of a subt type of talent

[lunar bluff]

It is

[lilac stag]

Well we had dust and people wanted it gone

[lunar bluff]

It makes no sense to be on the outlaw tree

[lilac stag]

So why would they give us prep when people wants dust removed

That would be my dev pov

[chilly kite]

uh they aren't the same thing

i mean all 3 rogue specs would benefit from a cd refresh button to be honest

dance dance prep dance dance or even more aggresive dance sectek evic coup prep sectek during the same window

i can see where they would think it would be a little too strong for dmg amps and the burst window

[lilac stag]

I think it’s their 1/2 assed attempt to make outlaw not completely linear dps

and it won’t break on dmg amps if they exist

[chilly kite]

we know that there is dmg amps in the new raid, but yea i'm not afan of the new outlaw. and kinda tired of deathstalkers mark being a target based ability, it should be a self buff and it would fix the ability for the most part with interactions.

[frail kindle]

what would you guys say sub plays like now? like for example outlaw feels more similar to shadowlands now

[chilly kite]

uh, ret?

i didn't really play sub ever, i've always been an assa/combat andy so this xpac i'm going sub to appease the guild

[strange heath]

do you still backstab in shadow dance for the danse macabre dmg

[latent finch]

no

[chilly kite]

what do u guys macro into your dance button if not backstab?

[vale pine]

they got scared

[sullen hare]

Sec tec

[vale pine]

dust was too much, so probably didn't want to create a similar problem again

and from history

the approach to things like this is to simply ban it forever from certain specs/classes

[strange heath]

is there even a point in having ST on my bar then if you just macro it into dance?

[sullen hare]

I don't plan to get used to having a carload of abilities macroed together because I don't wanna build bad muscle memory plus it's like four buttons

[chilly kite]

you think they will take prep away from outlaw after seeing how it performs?

[vale pine]

not sure

you can always buff or rework things

[chilly kite]

i'm oldge, so i've pretty much always used macro's i never press anything that is off gcd by itself

fuu do you macro anything into you dance? like i have 2 different dance buttons one when shadowblades is up and one when its down.

[sullen hare]

I'm also oldge but subtlety is like five buttons top now

[chilly kite]

i mean all of the specs are like 5 buttons now

[vale pine]

well there is this one problem you can solve with macros

basically deepening shadows gives now longer dance duration based on haste

depending on how much haste, you might get a very short time to fit in the last gcd in dance

so you can macro secret technique to shadow dance

or shuriken storm

so you can use dance + storm or secret via macro and not lose time by delaying your first spell use

(secret on 6+ cp, storm on 0 or 1 cp, you would not dance with cp's in between)

[chilly kite]

so yo would hit dance on full cp? or does dance give cp now?

[vale pine]

you can hit dance on full cp yes

it is typically better to use it with low ones

[chilly kite]

k i was min maxing with backstab on dance

[vale pine]

the idea mentioned is just to optimize your gcd use

you don't want to use backstab in dance

thats bad

[chilly kite]

for dance stacks

[vale pine]

ye thats not worth it

danse macabre is now just static damage, you lose more damage from using backstab than you gain from the macabre proc

[chilly kite]

so full cp's then dance+sb+sectek+ trinket

[vale pine]

yes

[chilly kite]

dance>trinket>sb>potion>sectek. i just had to look at the tree again did we lose an off gcd buff or am i crazy

[vale pine]

unless the trinket has a channel

then you would use it before dance

ideally you would dance+blades-strike-secret-....

but again, the macro is to be sure you hit gcd's

[lilac stag]

Sub has the pacing of s3 fury warrior, but with burst dmg

[vale pine]

and thats overall typically worth more than perfect dance utialization

[chilly kite]

alright, i'll change my macro's up when i get done with work see how much more dmg it does

[strange heath]

and we never use ST outside of dance right, still the same logic of holding

[vale pine]

yes

you only use secret with dance

and you would outside of blades

only use dance when you have secret ready or about to come up soon

[strange heath]

is haste more valuable now?

[vale pine]

yes

especially during pre patch

haste is very good

we even switch to mana oil

[chilly kite]

do you need to pop a haste trinket before hitting dance for the longer dance or does it constantly check haste during dance

[strange heath]

im just looking at the gear of a couple of the top sub rogues on murlok and it seems that their stats are all over the place, some have crit mast stacked, some have haste mast stacked, some have vers still

is that just because its hard to re-gear in pre-patch

[lilac stag]

none of this matters.

[strange heath]

no kidding

[plush roost]

Its moreso that top anyone rn isnt bothering really to gear

[latent finch]

Its not dynamic it snapshots when you press it.

[chilly kite]

kk thx, good to know if i get a haste trinket after launch

[chrome palm]

@plush roost why is cloak even in the game

[chilly kite]

pretty sure this is just a really long sandbox time to get ui's macro's rotations down

[chrome palm]

it works on like nothing in magisters terrace

[latent finch]

It also nice if your raid is not able to press bl the first 3 gcds at a pull

[plush roost]

It seems they forgot how to code cloak

Xddd

[chrome palm]

i hit cloak

and im ticking to magic rot

i hit cloak

i geta heal absorb

[plush roost]

U can cloak jellyfish stings, u can cloak beam on arcane golems, u can cloak glaives

U can cloak the silence zone on second boss (forbidden uptime tech)

[chilly kite]

is cloak not 100% anymore anymore? or spaghetti code

[plush roost]

Spaghetti psure

Also a lot of stuff is randomly sonic damage

So its physical

Very annoying since it looks like a magical effect

[chilly kite]

if its physical then you can evasion it

[plush roost]

Ehhh, sometimes

[chilly kite]

like rik reverb

face the spell and hit evasion and you avoid it

[chrome palm]

rik was sweet you could evasion the slam until you coudlnt

[plush roost]

^ evasion is very

Case by case

[dry plank]

that was a shit update

[chrome palm]

im looking at degentrius dungeon journal

its all shadow dam

and none of it works on cloak

[plush roost]

Like first boss grim batol, sonic aoe pulse, couldnt evasion it

Thrashes in HoA, totally dodgable

[chilly kite]

well ya know, because rogues were doing so amazing on that fight. i'm pretty sure a ton of rogues got sat because of that stupid fights mechanics

[plush roost]

Yeah idk why but u can cloak it off but u cant cloak the applications

[chilly kite]

only the top guild leaders would actually listen when we had litteral pins in all 3 rogue channels that rockets were not our problem lol

[plush roost]

It like overrides cloak

[plush roost]

On richard reverberation? Sub rogue literally was barrelfucker9000

[misty dawn]

should i be making sure i have 2 stacks of shadow dance before pressing shadow blades?

[chilly kite]

okay maybe i was wrong, i was assa for that and basically was told your not in on this fight because rogue.

[plush roost]

2 stacks or 1 stack and another in 8ish seconds

Yeah assa ignores barrels

But week 1 u played sub

[warm marlin]

assa was horrible on that fight until later in farm, sub was incredible

[chrome palm]

that was the only fight sub was good at lol

[misty dawn]

okay, cool ty

[chrome palm]

the whole tier you had that and then you padded really hard on stix too

[plush roost]

Excuse you??? Vexie????

[chrome palm]

i got mogged to death by kill timings every clear

gg

[warm marlin]

sub wasn't even particularly good on vexie

you hold for 2mins and lust and the burn is too long

[chrome palm]

i think

on my first clear of normal

it took me like 2 months to hit that damage again or something

because of the timing

[warm marlin]

it was also very strong on oab though

more than i think ppl gave credit for

[plush roost]

"Oops sorry guys rode the last bike in 30 seconds early teehee"

[warm marlin]

best melee easily

[chrome palm]

really?

i think unholy was a lot stronger there

[plush roost]

Yeah sub was very good on early oab

[chrome palm]

it was good for prog t hough step with coins was huge

[warm marlin]

unholy was better on the boxes

but sub could do way more damage to the coin guys

[chrome palm]

i think monk was probably still better

[chilly kite]

we had dmg issues so my life was sit on boss

[plush roost]

Before coin order switched sub kinda nuked those smallies and basically had a dance for every assistant

Was very good

I ended up being assa anyway since we needed boss dam by the time the nerfs hit

[chrome palm]

this was my reel assistant damage on prog kill

i was full targetting them

[plush roost]

I loved oab tho good fight

[chrome palm]

maybe i was shit

[lilac stag]

@plush roost have you messed with either DBM or bigwigs in keys on beta (or live)?

[warm marlin]

my reel assistants on prog

[chrome palm]

were you holding blades for reels

[warm marlin]

no

there was tech i dont remember as much anymore

[plush roost]

Not really, only using plater midnight simple.unit frames and sensei resource bar

[chrome palm]

my other pulls were closer to 600k so maybe that was a bad pull

[lilac stag]

Ah ok. Was curious if any of the GTFO stuff was working

[warm marlin]

i was pooling coup for sure

[chrome palm]

i probably wasnt doing much special

[warm marlin]

also rupturing the one that wasn't in melee we were supposed to kill

[plush roost]

Yeeeea boy

Slide over to rupture non melee tsrget and step boooom

[warm marlin]

i think on our kill on one set the melee one died mega early and i sent solo second half of blades and cb sectec on the far add before boss made it over

prob why

[plush roost]

W ethics

[chrome palm]

at least this time oab is the 3rd boss instead of the 6th

[warm marlin]

i really liked oab personally

[plush roost]

Which one is third?

[chrome palm]

salhadaar

[plush roost]

Vorasvius?

Oh saladbar

[chrome palm]

2nd or 3rd i guess

[plush roost]

Is saladbar really oab?

[sick basin]

What, not a Wangbar enthusiast?

[chrome palm]

kinda, split cleave fight

[plush roost]

Felt like u just dragged boss around orbs

[warm marlin]

arent like 6/8 fights spread cleave

[chrome palm]

yep :)

[plush roost]

Dw melee tech will develop

[chrome palm]

if you have bad tanks gg

[plush roost]

Watch rwf kite boss into all 3 orbs and backpedal

In some convoluted movement

[warm marlin]

always thankful to have a gamer spriest

[chrome palm]

that too

[chilly kite]

this tier is gonna be interesting, because they can't really have mechanic vomit like previous tiers, i think alot of the older wow players are gonna be more succesful because they aren't being handheld by WA every fight

[chrome palm]

older gamers were probably more carried by wa

they had sirens playing and flashing icons and shit

[plush roost]

Idk about yall but i barely use WA as it was

[chrome palm]

sometimes can be hard to tell when something is on you

[vale pine]

thats because we spread stats across all

[sick basin]

I dunno, older gamers also hate all the flashing lights, icons, and noises

[torn tide]

whats gcd?

[vale pine]

global cooldown

[chilly kite]

i despised all the weak aura's my midnight UI pretty much looks like my old ui

[vale pine]

basically all combo builder or consumer cause a period of time you can't use another one

[chilly kite]

the only downside for no weak auras is i needed that stupid your standing in something addon due to blizz having the worst coloblind modes known to man

[vale pine]

this time is the global cooldown

the global cooldown of rogue is 1 sec

[torn tide]

ohh the thing that makes us not able to spam backstab or shadowstrike

[vale pine]

so if you use shadow dance and its 6 seconds

[mint swift]

How do you guys think black powder tastes

In my mind it’s like a strong liquorice

[vale pine]

you can use 6 spells during that time that cause a global cooldown

[sick basin]

Taste the same as boomstick

[chrome palm]

probably like sulfur

isnt it just gunpowder

[vale pine]

the thing just is

[mint swift]

I’ve never had gunpowder myself ngl

Am I missing out

[vale pine]

the changed talent

[vale pine]

deepening shadows

[sick basin]

Its the new tidepod challenge, check it out

[vale pine]

now gives you fractions of a global cooldown of extra shadow dance time

[mint swift]

I heard it’s better if you heat it while eating or something

[chrome palm]

is this good for you

isnt this in bananas

[torn tide]

wait so its a bad thing then?

[vale pine]

and depending on how much it gives, it can be very hard to hit the last spell

[lilac stag]

DBM has this now.

Not sure if bigwigs added it as well

[vale pine]

yes, its poorly designed

[chilly kite]

i didn't even know we could still use dbm and bigwigs

[vale pine]

so in order to utialize all the time you have reliably

you can use macros

[mint swift]

Gunpowder must taste like banana

[vale pine]

to use dance and the first spell during it at the same time

giving you the highest chance to not miss a spell cast

you don't need to do it

but can

[mint swift]

Also cause it might be fun to try

Can you guys remind my slop brain if you can play sub with a sword offhand

[lilac stag]

Idk what got implemented by blizzard, but a bunch of non-computational private auras are or to be added

[torn tide]

oh which is like just dance and sectec together?

[vale pine]

you never want to use a sword in offhand

its just too slow

weapon speed is important

[vale pine]

yes

dance + secret

[sick basin]

So real question, do you/would you ever send just a solo dance? Like if you are about to overcap on dance charges due to poor play or disconnect? Or is it better to just sit on it and let stuff re-align

[chilly kite]

i'm still pissed if we have the sword version of warglaives we can't transmog them

[vale pine]

and if you want dance + storm

both can be used for the same purpose

storm if on low cp, secret on 6+

storm isn't the idal spell to use as first gcd

[torn tide]

do u mind showing me ur macros actually im kinda curious how it looks like lmao

[lilac stag]

@vale pine good morning.

[vale pine]

but due to danse macabre and silent storm, there is only a small diffrence

so the trade off between it and the potential of losing a gcd can be worth it

i would not generally recommend it, but it is one min/max possible

[torn tide]

true

[vale pine]

good morning

towards the guy asking about stats

[warped yarrow]

can someone help me maybe in retail ? ^^ having some issues with sub rogue w/me

[vale pine]

this graph i have on wowhead

it is actually showing how much of each stat you get relative to the highest amount

[torn tide]

damn thanks for educating me about the gcd in the morning lmao

[vale pine]

not an aribiary number

so vers and haste is about the same

while crit/mastery slightly lower

[torn tide]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[vale pine]

its not morning for me ^^

[torn tide]

r u in germany?

[vale pine]

close, austria

[torn tide]

ohh cool

[warped yarrow]

heast oida

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[mint swift]

What’s it like there stm
Genuinely curious :0

like nice weather, nice to live in, ect

[vale pine]

you know, we had this famouse painter that got rejected and now is the most referenced historical figure ^^

[torn tide]

LOL

wonder who that could be

[vale pine]

[mint swift]

Ehhh

I wouldn’t say most referanxes

If you count religion I think Jesus is

[chilly kite]

wow discord banned all of the family guy hitler gif's what?

[torn tide]

i wonder why lol

[chilly kite]

i was gonna link the 1942 nothing happened one lol

[torn tide]

LOL wait do u just have a really bad sleep schedule then

[vale pine]

i am in the south, so close to italy.
It means we get the weather from north italy most of the time.
Weather is generally fine, its cold atm slightly below the freezing temperature.
Austria, outside of the big cities (like viena) is fairly quite/uneventful during winter.

[hazy breach]

Ye sub was by far the best melee on that fight

[vale pine]

idk is 8:00 - 23:00 a bad time to be awake?

[hazy breach]

Now obviously ranged was better

But still,you needed a rogue/ww to kill the bombs at 90s

[torn tide]

id say thats not too bad

[latent finch]

I need to go to vienna in a few days. Really looking forward for the weather 🙂

[vale pine]

Godwin's law exists, i don't know of a similar one for jesus

[vale pine]

does not look that good tho, but no snow which is a plus

[void ocean]

lol what is this topic

[chilly kite]

i mean i live on the east coast, we just have to say to ourselves ,no hurricanes no wildfires, no mudslides, no flooding. but we did just get 2 ft of snow dumped on us in a day lol

[void ocean]

snow, ICE, whats next, blizzard?

[vale pine]

nothing much, i was just making a joke about where i am from ^^

[chilly kite]

i see what you did there. but that would require blizzard to be on time with something, lol

[vale pine]

but before that, we talked about the use of macros to mitigate the risk of losing globals during shadow dance

[void ocean]

that joke had many layers 😄

[vale pine]

haha

[chilly kite]

if we're being transparent sub is probably the most on topic of the three rogue channels, lol.

[vale pine]

ironically, think that was historically always the case

[void ocean]

u sure

i recollect 2 weeks into the season sub channel discussing frost dks, Skyrim mods...

[vale pine]

we moved a bit more off topic during the time the game has not much conent

rarely at the start of a patch tho

tho historically, the discussions focues way more on theorycrafting etc

theorycrafting is a bit moved out of the general discussion, as discord grew and the amount of new players increased

[chilly kite]

i think assa is the biggest culprit of off topic

but i could be biased since i spent most of my time in the assa channel

[fallow nimbus]

It's not assa it's ass, also the spec is called assassination

[vale pine]

assassiantion became a lot less off topic tbh

[void ocean]

sas

sin

[fallow nimbus]

So ass it has 2

[chilly kite]

lets just go back to calling it mut spec like wotlk lol

[vale pine]

was calling it mut actually a thing outside of the german communities

[sick basin]

I've always heard it as sin or assa

[sleek notch]

So im trying Sub for the firs ttime now, is it me or is it fucking boring now?

[vale pine]

similar to calling alts "twinks", which iirc also was common in german

[sick basin]

twinks was a thing

But twinks specifically was when you gave your alts gear that didnt match their level and generally was used for low lvl bgs lol

[fallow nimbus]

1 google search and people stop

[void ocean]

everything is boring now, afaik

[chilly kite]

lvl 19 twinks with level 40 shoulder enchants and lvl 60 weapon enchants

[sleek notch]

i am autistic so i dont like change but its a bit much no?

[vale pine]

new xpac comes with a big shift in philosophy

[void ocean]

u will always have hide and seek to play 5v5

[vale pine]

blizz shifts focus of the game to fit their audiences

[lilac stag]

If Sub is boring, some of the other specs will be doing shots of NyQuil

[chilly kite]

"accessability" even tho we all had to download a user created mod so that there cdm would actually work lol

[vale pine]

which means:

• simplifying gameplay to the point you can play on an xbox controller
• reducing addon requirements
• designing raids and mythic+ dungeons in a way to be less busy and simpler to read

the claim is that the game stays similar difficult even with all this

[void ocean]

"we dont want new players to install the game and be required to download X amount of addons to be able to play"

joke of the decade

[vale pine]

and it has to be seen if the stated goals are met

[chilly kite]

midnight is beta testing for w/e comes after last titan, i wanna see a universal scar created and now its world of starcraft lol

[vale pine]

inherently, if we don't talk about a specific game, simple is typically very good

[chilly kite]

i can dream

[vale pine]

you can't argue with mobile games being the most successful games recently, and their gamepla mechanics are

[void ocean]

bruh im gonna be in my 40s after the Titan

im not rushing there

[vale pine]

lets word it positively:

• Simple to learn with the option of skill expression in mastery

(which is partly a joke because blizz aims for that)

[void ocean]

dont get me wrong, i support all those ideas, but i just think they did it all wrong

[sleek notch]

assasin better or?

[vale pine]

sub better currently

[lilac stag]

Easier? Yes

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/pondering-pondering-my-orb-my-orb-orb-pondering-my-pondering-my-orb-orb-gif-24060364

[sleek notch]

easier -.- is it possible to be easier thn sub?

[vale pine]

in midnight apes don't know

[chilly kite]

man i jus want wildstar 2 to be a thing

[void ocean]

imho they bit a lot more they could chew, it would be better if they shut down things step by step, starting from computations ofc...

[chilly kite]

they went way to hard on housing imo

[lilac stag]

You can still fuck up your cds on Sub.

Assa is very rigid cds slamming envenom and 2 dots

[void ocean]

and for a while they should've allowed both things to coexist

[vale pine]

housing is great tbh

[chilly kite]

i mean it makes sense because casuals make up most of the player base, but they went way too hard on housing as the selling point for midnight

[lilac stag]

so yes. Assa is easier

[uneven scarab]

They’re 100% gonna put more effort into the housing comps than anything else

[vale pine]

i think people missunderstood the purpose of the event yesterday

the underlying message was simple

"please stay subscribed"

this is why you got a housing item when logging in

[uneven scarab]

[void ocean]

and yet they r doing everything they can to reduce the number of subscribers

[vale pine]

just exactly one month before the xpac releases

[lilac stag]

We used to never get updates. No we get an update. NOT GOOD ENOUGH

[sleek notch]

okay, sorry im dooming btw xD i was just a bit shocked

[lilac stag]

The game has changed. Find fun in it or unsub. Kinda the options.

[vale pine]

i think its the opposite

also they did talk about some nice things

[magic cliff]

Yeah I'm pretty hyped after yesterday

[void ocean]

im just waiting for blizz to somehow introduces some first person shooter in wow

[magic cliff]

Alot of cool content, hope the devs have the time they need to deliver

[vale pine]

e.g. it was nice to know that smaller raids are now part of content releases

[void ocean]

cause u gotta snatch those audiences too

[vale pine]

i actually wonder if we now see 8-11 boss raids at all

[chilly kite]

look at updates the other mmo's give, vs blizzards. like funcoms updates for dune are hours long. blizzard gives us 30 minutes, 10 minutes of glazing themselves for doing charity work. then a bunch of housing stuff, then 7 minutes of ion telling us of new stuff. and a new housing trailer

[vale pine]

like it was common before

[wheat elk]

is there anything that helps us remove the debuffs from the target frame>

[lilac stag]

Play FP pov survival with boomstick

[vale pine]

you can either dissable them or apply one of the filter presets, e.g. only show the ones you apply

[lilac stag]

First off fuck funcom

[chilly kite]

blizzard still has an unannounced project slated for 2027

[vale pine]

there won't be full filtering, blizz removed that ability

[void ocean]

like u have a battleground where u plant manabomb in theramore and then allies gotta defuse it

or save the hostages

[wheat elk]

the ones i need to see are already on the nameplates, i was removing them before with betterblizz addon

aint woking no more

[wheat elk]

sad

[lilac stag]

We have children’s week

[chilly kite]

can hate funcom but dune was great for what it was, until all the hackers and bots took over. if that didn't happen dune would be way more of a big deal

[void ocean]

bottom line how i see what blizz does all these years is as if Iron Maiden decided to try attracting Taylor Swift fans cause metal fans arent buying their albums as much, so now u buy a CD with like 2 pop songs, 1 hiphop where Bruce does some freestyle and maybe a few techno rmx of Fear of the Dark

[lilac stag]

yeah well. They sued me because they couldn’t develop their own fucking website back in the day and my parody site was confused for the official site.

Also. Long form information is blizzcon. Not roadmap updates.

[chilly kite]

for dune or conan?

[lilac stag]

Nope. Youngster

gotta go back further

[chilly kite]

see idk what that even is, no offense. but funcoms team was completely overhauled after conan for the dune awakening project

[lilac stag]

Haha the game is 25 years old now and in steam. Seeeeesh

Anarchy Online

dumb fucks of a company

couldn’t make a website in 2001

[chilly kite]

oh okay, i know anarchy online, i mean making a web page back then wasn't even that difficult lol

[void ocean]

what?

have u tried php

[vale pine]

the bottom line is, blizz tries to attract more customers by changing the service while expecting the existing customers to be happy with the change of contract/deal. Weather or not thats the case, we can only say in half a year or so

[uneven scarab]

Html was a thing in 2001

[lilac stag]

in a different timeline I took a community manager / advertising job in Germany for funcom’s competitor at the time

[void ocean]

THATS NOT A PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE

[uneven scarab]

?? Hes talking about making a website

[void ocean]

sry for the reaction 😄

[uneven scarab]

what

[lilac stag]

I had custom site skins in a proprietary language using MySQL as the db

[uneven scarab]

MySQL HOLY

[lilac stag]

back then reading the browser and allowing that shit was a pain in the ass.

[uneven scarab]

Havent used that since high school

[lilac stag]

While funcom was developing in Frontpage.

[chilly kite]

i mean msql is the OG

[void ocean]

yea, u gotta have some functionality incoorporated into ur website

i see javascript was a thing in 2000.

[uneven scarab]

Sure but if we’re talking about the BASE features of one

[lilac stag]

where I was working at the time we hosted major corporate intranets for clients like molex interconnect

[void ocean]

now u have all these frameworks

[uneven scarab]

its very easy

[lilac stag]

Shit that’s super easy now, wasn’t back then

[chilly kite]

i had a few friends that did website designing in the late 90's early 2000's i didn't i made it as far as learning QB VB & C++ then realised i fking hate programming after missing a ; in 30k lines of code and my game just being stuck in a perma loop

[uneven scarab]

I did most of that from like 2012-2018, i was mostly blessed

twas easy then

[void ocean]

true but im afraid they r getting spread thin, stories/lore feel more and more bland

[lilac stag]

fucking apple server running Linux with a t3 line in our office.

[uneven scarab]

Windows server 2012

my goat

[lilac stag]

I was the non apple person in the office.

[void ocean]

king

[lilac stag]

Man I pissed off the IT smuck

[vale pine]

i have no idea, i don't think the story was that good for quite a while now

[void ocean]

yea, i was referring to like last few expansions

[lilac stag]

my buddy in the office who was an account manager was from German and used to shoot for metal hammer.

[void ocean]

more like a downward trend

[chilly kite]

what sword?

[uneven scarab]

Story’s been meh but ngl df had some fun stuff going on

i feel compared to tww

[ionic agate]

hi bois

[chilly kite]

i mean, i'm assuming last titan is just gonna be back to the illidan story except sargeras is now the good guy and him and illidan are bro's

[ionic agate]

is there any in game profile to get for prepatch ?

like cd manager etc

since there is no weak aura anymore

[vale pine]

i mean, i did not think DF had a good story

and looking at tww

"what is dragonflight"?

[lilac stag]

My favorite story was s2. I loved the goblin shit. I know I’m in the minority there. The visuals, jokes and music were so good.

[void ocean]

lmao

imho the most underwhelming final boss since Sark

[lilac stag]

boss tuning isn’t story

[chilly kite]

it made no sense with the storyline, but it was very on brand. and done really well as far as how a goblin city would be

[uneven scarab]

Music was honestly the only thing i cared for

[vale pine]

dragonflight was the most forgettable xpac we had

[uneven scarab]

Rest was quite meh

[void ocean]

no, i meant story wise, like Gally in my book is meh

[vale pine]

does not mean it was a bad one

but even blizz forgot about the story

[uneven scarab]

in terms of story for sure

[lilac stag]

We got a usable indoor water slide in raid

It was amazing

[vale pine]

i don't think a raid or system stood out to me too

[uneven scarab]

I just liked the borrowed power

the leggo

etc

[chilly kite]

i don't even remember what happened in dragonflight

[lilac stag]

or money slide maybe a batter label

[uneven scarab]

Other than that it wasn’t really anything special

[lilac stag]

You cursed every time the 2h leggo didn’t drop

[uneven scarab]

i liked the raids in df alot

Thats about the only W i can give it

[lilac stag]

that was the depth of DF lol

[uneven scarab]

yeah

[lilac stag]

I loved the new flight system

That was great

[chilly kite]

oh right razhagath and fyrion or w/e his name was

[void ocean]

fight design wise, rasza was an interesting fight

[chilly kite]

fyrruk w/e

[uneven scarab]

Abberus was a fucking awesome raid(besides sark)

And yeah vault was great

[chilly kite]

razha made for a hilarious first look in mythic during rwf

[void ocean]

sark looked like a fcki ntrash mob

[uneven scarab]

Fuck that boss man

misery

[void ocean]

and then Smolderon

that mofo

[uneven scarab]

As a sub player smoldy was BIS

[lilac stag]

Let’s all revisit the Jailer

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-reaction-information-my-reaction-to-that-information-my-honest-reaction-to-that-information-gif-613275461876515673

[void ocean]

i rly struggled a lot on Smold

[chilly kite]

or.. hear me out... NO

[void ocean]

hated fckin dust play

[uneven scarab]

nah dust was SO FUN

[lilac stag]

assa player

[uneven scarab]

I would kill for it back

[lilac stag]

I miss dust so much

[void ocean]

ye, kick in the balls, spit on the neck kind of fun 😄

[lilac stag]

We will disagree on poopstalker but always have common ground on dust

[uneven scarab]

[void ocean]

heres a timetable where every fckin window is different

[uneven scarab]

Dust is #1 in my heart always

[void ocean]

u guys are animals

[uneven scarab]

Imo it only really changed on diff bosses, and even then you did it enough it became muscle memory

[lilac stag]

omg spec is now braindead.
Also I can’t possibly think each week with dust.

WHICH IS IT

dust was never the problem. krangled CDs were.

[void ocean]

literally every sub except amirdrassil dust for me

[lilac stag]

fickle channel is fickle