subtlety

[hazy breach]

Instead of getting 4 sht stacks whenever you press sectech you gain 0

[vale pine]

and apex is not currently relevant

[hazy breach]

But ye that's not currently live as it's apex

[vale pine]

the 3 mentioned are i think the most noticable ones

or would you want to point out another one too?

[finite crow]

recrafting still doesnt work?

[azure thicket]

we're not expecting to send sec tec twice during shadow blades right?

[vale pine]

coup gcd might be something to talk about

but idk

[hazy breach]

The sht ones amount to a lot more amount of cp lost than from blades not working

[vale pine]

you can't

secret has a static cd now

[tribal blade]

sectec having a static cd is my least favorite part of the rework

[azure thicket]

ye tried plexus on mythic and it didn't feel like it

[tribal blade]

i hate it

[azure thicket]

if the dungeons get oppressive movement mechanics i wouldn't mind as much

algethar academy levels of O_O

[vale pine]

ye the apex ones are all not great

[tribal blade]

didn't they just bug fix outlaw

surely we're getting some of that coming our way

or they bugfixed hero trees

[alpine wraith]

any day now

[azure thicket]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMeOwFGwhg

[alpine wraith]

NEW

[hazy breach]

Here is from a log a while back where i counted how much combo points each bug made a log miss out on. (5 minute fight, with a total of 682 cp generated)

[short radish]

so we're missing 20% of our cps?

[hazy breach]

But obviously if you had more combo points you'd have more energy which means more combo points and more sht procs from apex2 etc

So its more like 30-35%

[short radish]

[lyric violet]

Hi ppl, idk how manage my stats, what sholuld be the perfect distribution of these to run high end M+?

Right now im playing with these but idk if i have too much crit/vers/mastery instead of haste

Wowhead talk about 15% of haste for M+ but i want to lister ur feeling because im not sure about and the other guides didnt talk about different perc in M+ and Raid and just talk about 35% haste

[vestal escarp]

Pinned message

[short radish]

m+_stats_tom.gif

[hazy breach]

Also the other guides definitely do mention that

[azure thicket]

im not even sure how to get 35% haste, im missing a dagger recraft and the bis head at 21%

[vestal escarp]

Post it cause i lost it

[short radish]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/449080055893590017/1280746470815043646/456.gif

i think we will come full circle next expansion when the numbers in the gif will be accurate again

with the ilvl

and 30% haste

[vale pine]

[lyric violet]

Ty a lot, saw it

[hazy breach]

Bis mythic ilvl is 289

[random prawn]

check the box for cooldown manager and you can move it around

[hazy breach]

So yeah 260 should be fairly accurate now

[short radish]

[radiant swift]

in the regular options?

[random prawn]

in the edit mode, you see the options you can enable/disable to show

[radiant swift]

its not an option for some reason - everything else is glowing but this thing

[radiant swift]

oh i understand - can u hide it then aswell?

[sinful zephyr]

Assuming we get tuned to the same state with and without those bugs. What impact will they have on the gameplay?

[radiant swift]

ty very much btw its been pissing me off so bad

[random prawn]

to disable you need to go into options and disable cdm

[radiant swift]

didnt work unfort

also still not movable

who knows what that thing is

[swift tinsel]

Personal resource display

[random prawn]

oh, now i see

search for it in options

[hazy breach]

Significantly less sht stacks generated > less apex refunds and combo point generated > less finishers pressed > less buttons pressed overall

Also the coup gcd being longer means we want different haste levels based on which hero talent we are playing

[radiant swift]

tried but for some reason not even other addons are hiding it

[sinful zephyr]

ty. Lets hope for the best...

[random prawn]

just go regular options and search for resource and uncheck that box

[haughty rose]

wait a sec what are you talking about exactly

[radiant swift]

love u

"personal resource display"

no wonder i didnt see it right away

[haughty rose]

oh that doesn't show up for me at all. i only managed to move my CP under my character but health and energy are still default

[radiant swift]

yeah it was the blizz thing just dongling there, but now its gone for good

[haughty rose]

what is this abomination?? why are CP not centered, why is the gap between CP and health/energy so huge and why is the whole bar so small

[torn tide]

wait dbm is disabled in midnight too????

[tribal blade]

yeah it's pretty horrendous

and you basically cannot really customize it in any meaningful way

[haughty rose]

is there any addon that lets me move health and energy? better blizz frames can move CP

[tribal blade]

not sure tbh

i'm just raw dogging most of my UI atm

because i don't care if things don't look quite right

[plush roost]

Sensei class resource bar is the only addon i think every rogue should get

[tribal blade]

mm yeah i might set that one up

i have it downloaded

[plush roost]

Simply because it allows you to see your energy and cp clearly lmao

Its super easy, u just press editmode and its right there

If u wanna change colore options > addons tab

[tribal blade]

the blizz CPs have some weird lag to them which isn't a huge issue on sub

but on outlaw i noticed it's really bad

[plush roost]

Ye

[tribal blade]

i kept using SS or PS at the wrong times

because of the delay

[haughty rose]

might should do this too. i piss off to thailand tomorrow for 3 weeks and hopefully some people figured the whole UI stuff out by then

[tribal blade]

oh for sure there's gonna be a tone of stuff available in 3 weeks time

[left ledge]

wait, an addon is showing up in edit mode?

or does the addon reskin the personal resource bar

[plush roost]

Nah it just goes into edit mode as its own notch

[left ledge]

wth

thats kinda cool

[plush roost]

Same with midnight simple unit frames

U can click on it, get an options panel to resize

Move color change values displayed

Its like actually hella versatile

[left ledge]

imma try that

if it integrates seemlessly with blizz's ui thats cool af

[plush roost]

Like im ngl addons are literally 90% capacity as before

Just no renaming enemy abilities to Soak. Frontal. And no "orange orange orange"

[left ledge]

i think the biggest target of "addons"

was WA raid packs

[plush roost]

Yep

[left ledge]

and im glad they're gone

[plush roost]

Well...

[upper narwhal]

need a tricks wa replacement addon asap tho

[plush roost]

We'll see how necessary Liquids new raid addon will be

[left ledge]

hopefully not, im really sick of external addons like that needing constant updates across the raid

[slate marlin]

Do you stream beta charrend?

[left ledge]

i just wanna log in and pull

[plush roost]

When im free ye

[slate marlin]

Cool, im struggling to find rogue beta streamers

[plush roost]

Ye same

[slate marlin]

Kush was streaming rogue earlier

But as deathstalker assa

Im not wtching ds gameplay

[fallow glade]

easy fix: don't make bosses like ovinax

[vale pine]

would not go that high

[weary tree]

anyone using dandersframes know how to remove the party frame when youre not in a party??

[vale pine]

someone of my guild did say danders bugged out for him

[crystal bone]

the setting is called "solo mode"

[vale pine]

so unsure if its a good choice

but addons are atm not "stable"

[weary tree]

Yeah taht setting is off

I guess it's a bug then

[crystal bone]

yea bugged then

/reload

i had to reload like 100 times in my 4 hours of UI adventure

[weary tree]

Always fun doing aura stuff

Or general UI shit

[crystal bone]

also yeah i tried danders and i couldnt get it working properly

i went with NephUI and i'm liking it

[weary tree]

isnt nephui a whole package?

[crystal bone]

yup

[weary tree]

What does it have? Im using like BCDM / unhalted UF and danders now

[crystal bone]

like a simpler version of elvui

[weary tree]

Mostlybecause combo points isnt in some of the add-ons lol

[sly shore]

do not use nephui

or danders

[weary tree]

What else for party/raid frames then?

[sly shore]

absolutely zero quality control vibe coded garbage slop

[grand wyvern]

everybody reccomending different shit, my head is imploding

[fallow glade]

i tried setting up Arc UI but it was a bit janky so i just went back to my roots of using action bars as "weakauras"

[sly shore]

Just use default or reskin the default with RaidFrameSettings

[weary tree]

Youre using that now? Can you show me example of how that could look

[crystal bone]

vibe coded = AI? or what

[sly shore]

RaidFrameSettings kinda borked atm

[sly shore]

yes

[crystal bone]

yeah idk every addon i tried had bugs

[sly shore]

it's not about it being buggy

it's about it being trash

[weary tree]

Good thing we skipped raid day because of this shit

[sly shore]

this is with rfs when it works

He'll update it soon

[weary tree]

😂

[sly shore]

having to refactor your entire codebase

[weary tree]

Lets try that then

[crystal bone]

man i just spent 4 hours in neph

[sly shore]

oh in fact

rfs

is alpha version, so just use the alpha version

😄

[grand wyvern]

just make it functional with whatever addon and wait for top competitors to emerrge

[weary tree]

this one?

[sly shore]

Yeah, just change the channel in wowup to alpha

[crystal bone]

so RFS + unhaulted?

or does RFS also do player/target

boss frames

[sly shore]

just raid and party

unhalted for everything else yuh

[weary tree]

uuf doesnt have combo points from what I saw?

[sly shore]

idk there a cdm addons that do combo points

so it doesn't matter if it doesn't

[crystal bone]

i normally wouldnt mind as much but i have the raid leader's pov as well so it's gotta be neat lol

[crystal bone]

sensei is great for combo points + energy

tracking

uses editmode as well for customizing

[sly shore]

sensei is unusally resource intensive however

[weary tree]

I have decent setup rn so was just looking for party/raid frames

[radiant swift]

is anyone working with SenseiClassBars? Is there a way to like have the Resource and Combopoints fixed length all the time and the other STuff just on top?

[sly shore]

[weary tree]

HDR ftw

[crystal bone]

[slate marlin]

cp and energy is very slightly missalinged

[weary tree]

Youre misaligned

shut up

[slate marlin]

cant have that

[crystal bone]

[fallow glade]

[slate marlin]

that ocd trigger

[weary tree]

Im gonna put everything 1 pixel off now

Just for you

[swift tinsel]

you can manually set the length of both in Edit Mode

[slate marlin]

well my mother says im handsome the way i am so

checkmate

[lilac stag]

this is uuf, arcui & sensei

[radiant swift]

yeah but it fucks the like size, because theyre bound together

[radiant swift]

clean

[swift tinsel]

they should be able to be edited independently unless you have some weird setting

[slate marlin]

perfectly aligned scath, gold star for you

[radiant swift]

how did u get the world buffs out of the UUF thingy

[slate marlin]

you are top the class so far

well done

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-tip-top-succession-tom-succession-sarcasm-gif-15742903704466430886

[radiant swift]

nah this is for sure jail time

u cant even - like u cant even make them "wider" its just pure size

[slate marlin]

negative star for you

[swift tinsel]

you can 100% edit the bar length

[crystal bone]

nice and thicc energy bar

[radiant swift]

u can it was

it was decided it was optional and therefore unticked

[swift tinsel]

ggwp

[weary tree]

Only thing I hate is the buff duration thing I cant figure out how to change those. Anyone ideas?

[lilac stag]

Arc

Set it to off

[haughty mural]

Interesting, you made latent energy stacks work ?

[swift tinsel]

might swap to Arc, Tweak kept swapping the position of my essential cooldowns

[weary tree]

not on purpose lol. Just worked out of the box

[haughty mural]

Damn - i can’t make it work

[weary tree]

Just unhalteduuf/bcdm

Not sure which one

[haughty mural]

I see

[sly shore]

it's unhalted

I got no on use equipped now anyway smile

[weary tree]

My trinkets keep dissapearing though

Shit is not working for tracking

[lilac stag]

so dance time remaining is above the CPs, and dance CD is with the essentials

[weary tree]

Id probably want to see if I could like 'light up' the button if something like dance is active

[lilac stag]

arc is legit the closest to WAs that I've found

[weary tree]

Like the external glow from WA

[hidden spade]

yeah arcui lets you assign glows for active auras

[lilac stag]

you could do that in arc, but you dont have a timer on it. so idk how useful

[weary tree]

🤔

[lilac stag]

i was trying to mess with a bar style, but couldnt get it to disappear when not active. kinda weird, think it's a bug

masque still has some issues with the CDM but usually a reselection of the skin fixes it if it loads weird

and the blizzard sound shit sucks

it's a seconds after the cd is ready

[weary tree]

guess ill try the arcui again with something for combo points to make that work

[radiant swift]

how did u manage to get buffs/trinkets up there without the World buff stuff? This is UUF right?

[vale pine]

i prefere better cooldown maager

over arkui

[weary tree]

but my trinket tracker is broken and i cant do anything with glows from what I saw

[lilac stag]

Up where?

[radiant swift]

sorry - above the healthbar

[harsh meadow]

Up dog

[lilac stag]

That’s Ark UI controlling displayed buffs

[radiant swift]

adding most likely is easy but how do u get rid of the other unncessary stuff

oh i see

[vale pine]

oh ye, i only used the default settings so far

i haven't rly needed the extra settings of ark

[radiant swift]

so u only took UUF for the nameplates

[vale pine]

uuf has nameplates?

[lilac stag]

Uff is for frames

[radiant swift]

sorry

holy fuck

[weary tree]

Hate weakauras for how much you could do with it, the best thing about it was that you can just import anyone's UI super easily and everyone was using it

[radiant swift]

frames ofc

[lilac stag]

Jundies plater for plates

[radiant swift]

playtynator looks dope too

[lilac stag]

Jundies is just one click so I use it. Unless there’s a reason not to

I waste enough time on making everything else look pretty.

[radiant swift]

true and real

oh u can use it as Cooldownmanager too

theres just so much stuff

holy

[crystal bone]

jundies is clean ye

i just wish blacklisting worked

shows all 20 of sin's debuffs

[lilac stag]

huge

[kind edge]

any1 had the same problem ? vanish doesnt show. i forced it into utility CDs just to check, and it wont show too

[vale pine]

there are two vanishes

drag both

if it does not work for you

create a new profile and set it up again

someone had the same problem before

[vale pine]

i think they nerfed all the old stuff

[crystal bone]

yeah i recall seeing two vanishes, not sure why that is

one worked and the other didn't

[hazy breach]

Theres only 1

[kind edge]

i have only 1 in my CD manager, but thanks. i will try new profile

[crystal bone]

they were also two different colors

one more saturated than the other

[hazy breach]

I mean if you look at the guys screenshot (mine looks the same)

There is just one

[vale pine]

i had 2 show up earlier

[crystal bone]

ye i also had that

[vale pine]

maybe thats fixed already?

[kind edge]

with 1 profile i got 1 and with other profile i got 2

lol

wtf is this

[crystal bone]

[vale pine]

if you get 2 just drag both up

only one works

[earnest rune]

I have the same in mine.

[vale pine]

but you got vanish on your bars

[kind edge]

yea its working fine now, just dont know why there was only 1 with the one i was working

yesterday its was there, today it vanished lol

[radiant swift]

does UUF actualy not have party settings?

[hoary sun]

Do you guys know if there's an addon to add some glow when you reach certain stacks on a buff? Like if i wanted to make coup glow? Or deathstalker mark

[crystal bone]

player/target/boss frames only i believe

[vale pine]

its only player, target, focus, target of target and boss farmes iirc

[radiant swift]

but like do i realy need another addon

nvm blizzards is good enough

[crystal bone]

RaidFrameSettings is apparently pretty solid

[radiant swift]

it does look solid

[crystal bone]

it just adds more customization to the default blizzard ones

[radiant swift]

only shows me for party but thats good enough

[lilac stag]

That’s just raid and party

[radiant swift]

nvm im stupid

apologies

[crystal bone]

yes i meant UUF and RFS combo

[radiant swift]

not to shabby

[sick epoch]

Do we have any help from blizz to dungeons?

[lilac stag]

Dps should never need extra RF settings.

[sick epoch]

M+ I mean

[fallow nimbus]

1 hour until i can fix my ui again

What's it gonna be this time? Arcui, tui:cd or bcdm?

[lilac stag]

arc is the way

[brisk onyx]

Cold-Blooded Killer bug is working on all 3 specs or just outlaw?

[lilac stag]

or just wait for beta to end

[radiant swift]

ArcUI is realy fucking good holy

[brisk onyx]

i saw it in outlaw's faq

[radiant swift]

can u make groups visible only for certain content?

@lilac stag would u possibly share ArcUI settings?

[hazy breach]

That bug is not a thing on the other specs

[graceful osprey]

I didn’t touch beta too much but man…now that we’re in prepatch, sub feels weird. I only have like 5% haste lol but still

[thorny wagon]

Im at 17% haste now and it feels kinda smooth. I like how simple it is tbh. As long as it is effective i couldnt care less about loosing buttons.

[placid elk]

my shadowstrike finger hurts

[brisk onyx]

ty good news

[radiant swift]

Did someone manage to show stacks on prism with ArcUI?

[vestal escarp]

Good

Important button

[terse gorge]

Anyone else using Perfidious Projector? Seen quite a few logs using it. I'm guessing because of the haste

[graceful osprey]

With Danse now, we are still backstabbing once in SD?

[vale osprey]

I'm at 35% (or just a bit more and it feels absolutely buttery smooth ngl

[terse gorge]

I'm at 31% and feels good

[vale osprey]

Haste + flat damage trinket

[terse gorge]

Yea unfortunately passed every week on the myth track so using a hero track with myth sky

[graceful osprey]

Man, I should’ve gotten some haste gear lol

[torn tide]

agreed, i have wayyy too much mastery and only 13% haste

[terse gorge]

It feels alot better with haste ngl

[graceful osprey]

I have 5%

[radiant swift]

is it that bad with low haste? havent played yet but have 5% too

[wet robin]

imo its baaad lol

[alpine wraith]

you will do less damage

in st

[radiant swift]

but will it feel bad

[zenith mirage]

i mean u legit cant play the game below 30%haste 😭

[wet robin]

absoutely. shadowdance is way too short on low haste

[radiant swift]

its jover

[wet robin]

im redoing my gear as best i can, im like you at 5%

[torn tide]

it was like 9secs long for me and im at 13% haste

id say thats not too terrible

[zenith mirage]

30% allows for lineups 35% allows for a super comfy 1 extra global in dance

[radiant swift]

damn i mean recrafting is possible

but

other than that u kinda have to hope for drops?

how did yall get so much haste already

[steel horizon]

thats only your first dance of the fight

[terse gorge]

I had to use Perfidious Projector, put on duskblaze neck, re gem/enchant, cloak stat all haste to hit 31%

[torn tide]

oh yikes i forgot about that

[graceful osprey]

Maaan raid Friday is going to be interesting lol

[radiant swift]

hm mybr with just recrafts i can get that too

[terse gorge]

I have not done crafted ring yet for haste vers

[radiant swift]

i have like 2 craft rings and a neck surely thats enough

[fathom adder]

dont forget belt is a haste/mast one if you switch it at the tierpiece switcher (can`t recall the name right now)

helped me reach 35

[radiant swift]

oh my rogue doesnt even have 4p

eh who cares about 4%

[viscid barn]

super good call

[steel horizon]

so cringe how haste becomes the worst stat in m+ though. so if you gear for raid then your m+ suffers

[viscid barn]

good thing nothing matters right now lol

[steel horizon]

yea hopefully its different come midnight

[fathom adder]

iirc 35 is only during the prepatch

apex lowers it

[plush roost]

You want haste in m+ in midnight, about 13-18%

[steel horizon]

oh thats a relief then. lol

[plush roost]

Crit mast versa value get higher but haste is still relevant

Its really important to get strong sblades windows in m+

And longer dances are a beeg part of that

Were playing the 1:30 haste onuse as well

[torn tide]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[torn tide]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[vale pine]

yes, it is a lot lower in midnight

[fathom adder]

how can i make the blizz dps meter show dps + dmg done in one window?

[clever lintel]

Maybe a hot take but im really enjoying the simplicity of sub right now. Its nice when I just wanna turn my brain off and vibe.

[swift tinsel]

nah that's a based take

its pretty chill

[crystal bone]

simple is more fun indeed

i just wonder what it'll do to parsing

less skill gap

[latent finch]

How important is using coup on a fazed target? In aoe with the random apply for shurican often my main target has no fazed

[harsh meadow]

Not hot, a lot of people really like it

We still keep our burst on demand which is a really cool profile

[humble fractal]

No skill gap anymore when your gameplay is SS/BP in AoE or SS/Evisc in Mono

[harsh meadow]

there is a few things you can do

[swift tinsel]

I mean there will still be some expression, you can't just send all your stuff on cd

there's still some consideration for sectech/dance so you still get double dance for most/all of blades

and we have no idea what other season tier sets will be, which is where optimizations tend to come out

like storm between double coup etc

[latent finch]

There will be macro gaming to not lose gcds ^^

[humble fractal]

Its a basic thing. Sub is more scripted now, cause no CDR anymore.

No more choice to do in any situation, in any moment

[hazy breach]

After level squish trinkets that do damage are just significantly better than they were before the patch

[swift tinsel]

that's pretty hyperbolic

[warm marlin]

Meh you got relatively similar amounts of cdr on live and it was fine

Maybe your dance timings varied by 2-3s on patchwerk but the cadence was the same

[graceful osprey]

It’ll probably feel better as I get more haste lol

[hazy breach]

There are still things to play around, especially once we get to play our entire class with apex

[swift tinsel]

yeah lots of conclusions being drawn with an incomplete picture

granted, its the internet

[hazy breach]

Optimizing to use sectech on cooldown while not delaying blades & having dances up for all (or almost all of them) is not gonna be super mega straightforward on every boss

[warm marlin]

Man I really hope sectec gets charges before 12.0

[hazy breach]

And sometimes you'd hold dance and use them back-to-back despite losing sectech, because its better to kill that one add to spawns

[swift tinsel]

BIG same

[warm marlin]

The flexibility with static cd sectec is so bad

[swift tinsel]

natty hasted one-use is going to be bad

[hazy breach]

Yes sectech being hasted 25s is my least favourite change

[swift tinsel]

just tack a +1 use onto blades

[warm marlin]

I feel like it will get changed given the explicit patch note saying they want to keep sub flexibility

But I’m not sure

[swift tinsel]

guarantees double supercharged sectech

[warm marlin]

It’s getting deep into beta

[hazy breach]

If it was given more dev time yes

[swift tinsel]

and you're using dance around sectech cd between blades

[hazy breach]

But as is? Probably not

[swift tinsel]

so that part solves itself

[tepid trellis]

they should just make sectech a 1 time use per dance

[hazy breach]

Yes

[warm marlin]

Or that, whatever

[swift tinsel]

^this works too

[hazy breach]

Or like shot in the dark

Just something

Or make it like 10s cd but only usable in stealth

[swift tinsel]

bc even fitting 2x sectech into blades with funky cd is going to feel bad if you can't supercharge both

[hazy breach]

Lots of options

[vale pine]

yep

[warm marlin]

I feel like they have to be cooking something because they said more changes coming before right? I don’t think we got much after that note

[swift tinsel]

did they?

[vale pine]

i like the shots in the dark style option the most

[hazy breach]

Idk did they

[warm marlin]

And sub has been so absent in notes since that it feels like they cooking something

[swift tinsel]

I hadn't seen any notes about sub design in a while

[chrome palm]

Hasted secret technique but you only use it with supercharger like what are they thinking

[warm marlin]

Like way back

Originally

[swift tinsel]

yeah, then we got the big shift in november

[hazy breach]

Yeah but that was before the big changes like deepening and dance being 20s

[swift tinsel]

which I assumed was what they were talking about with pending changes

[hazy breach]

Dont know if they said anything after that

[dry plank]

We got them: “big changes”

[swift tinsel]

same

[warm marlin]

Maybe I’m cooked but the big November shift I thought they said more to come too

[lone linden]

does this mean, that you'd want to send the 2nd shadowdance in blades without sectec? cause sectec wouldnt be back right? unless during lust maybe

[fossil forge]

any layout givers in the chat

[hazy breach]

Yes

[latent finch]

I would like to see a change that ub hits always your main target even when applied with storm

[rustic mortar]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Yeah thats clearly just a bug imo

[humble fractal]

IMO it left one spell which synergize with others

[hazy breach]

No shot the intended interaction is that it does unseen on a random target

[warm marlin]

Maybe when someone logs into sub to fix Sblades not giving cp with strike we’ll proc some other changes

[hazy breach]

Closest i could see, but random? Nah that shit aint on purpose

[humble fractal]

It's still worth to use Shuriken in mono for Dance Macabre

?

[hazy breach]

No

[warm marlin]

Is it real bad to do eleem

[hazy breach]

Probably ok in prepatch

[warm marlin]

Don’t tell me we have to dance strike

[hazy breach]

Was like -1% with weaponmaster specced in midnight though

[warm marlin]

Unless cp prepared to insta sectec

[hazy breach]

In sims deathstalker really likes to be at low cp when dancing, trickster can be full or low

But i cant figure out why theyre so different

[warm marlin]

Does the robot suffer stance delay

[hazy breach]

No

But like, its almost 2% for deathstalker

So something is weird

[humble fractal]

Goremaw's bite still not used i guess ?

[hazy breach]

Goremaw, rotten, perforated, lingering, gloomblade all trash unfortunately

[fossil forge]

how are did yall lads add combopoints

probably 500 time some1 asked today

[lone linden]

thanks, follow on question, if you then have sectec off CD and no charges of dance, do you ever send a naked sectec?

[humble fractal]

Do u know a website where i can theorycraft some rotations ?

[uneven scarab]

we have a rotation on wowhead

[hazy breach]

Generally no

But it wouldnt surprise me if there were situations where it was solid

Havent looked much at it though

[humble fractal]

@uneven scarab I know but i prefer do things by my own globally. Sometimes wowhead do wrong things/build

[latent finch]

You can use raidbots and play around with talent builds and custom apls

[vale pine]

if there is something wrong let me know ^^

i try to keep everything up to date always

ofc personal preferences are always a thing (and ofc, i make mistakes)

[void hound]

is there a UI command?

[vale pine]

no, but ui's are currently evry diffrent for everyone

so you don't have a standardized framework

[void hound]

ok so weakauras are completely disabled, did i get this right

[vale pine]

i can give you my personal setup with import codes

but again, everyone seems to have diffrent opinions on what they like

[upper cosmos]

speaking of commands, is there a channel with the full list of them? cause some of them have interesting info but I just don't know what to type

[vale pine]

i typically add them to the pin, but pre patch has not many so far

[plush roost]

Is it because of the % strike damage talent in the ds tree, indiscriminate killer(?ithinkisname) kinda doesnt make sense to me but thats all i can rly think of

[vale pine]

!fuu(links the spreadhseet with sims --- wip)
!guide (links guides)
!up (links upgrade tracks)
!bugs(links bug list)
!macro (links a all in one macro)

think we don't have much else

[plush roost]

!rik

[uneven scarab]

I would assume if ds strike damage is quite higher that starting at low cp’s would just be better overall

[upper cosmos]

yeah !rik was one of the ones that I had no clue about till someone else used it and then I promptly sent that to my RL

[willow pawn]

!rik

[void hound]

sure hit me up

i just wanna see how to use all this new stuff

more than anything

[kind edge]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[eager latch]

!rik

[unreal gorge]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[red vortex]

Rip !wa

[tropic pier]

is recafting broken for anyone else

[void hound]

yup

[strong cargo]

someone have an addon or somthing to track netherprims stacks ?

[vale pine]

for the one who asked about addons, this is my current addon list

i added the blue text to mentin what i use each for

[void hound]

im gonna rawdog vanilla

[thorny falcon]

hey mates, short question: is there currently any good addon to customize energy and combo point bar?

[warm marlin]

hmm, looked into this a bunch. it could be getting the extra unshakable drive proc that you carry over from outside dance that you get to immediately consume on strike.

[swift tinsel]

SenseiClassResourceBar is nice

[dry plank]

SenseiClassResourceBar

[thorny falcon]

ok i try it out ty 🙂

[meager coyote]

So now I always wanna have full cp before pressing cds to be able to use the macro and fit enough globals? 🤔

[warm marlin]

yea probably

[fallow nimbus]

I didn't deinstall any addons

And fuu rocking 5 addons

[swift tinsel]

I think that's about how many I have now too

lol

not counting bugsack/buggrabber, simc

can't wait to mess with Tartan though

gonna hide so much

[warm marlin]

could also be related to the premed bug potentially. deathstalker is probably going to overcap sht if it has to dance/DN, then build with premed, then cancelaura ancient arts/sectec, then finally start consuming them (and only 3 of them) with strike on the 4th global of dance. trickster won't have this problem because it can always sectec first gcd, so it can spend the sht immediately (and spend 7 compared to ds 3) on 3rd global (coup) every time. when you start dance with low cp as ds, you'll be consuming on 3rd global like trickster

[real panther]

wait.. I will not play with 0% haste? How can I be the cool kid now?

[uneven scarab]

we are haste breakpoint gamers now

[swift tinsel]

worst timeline

[uneven scarab]

real

Never thought id see the day

[dry plank]

It is outlaw?

35% haste mygod

[cursive tundra]

ayo is this okay?

[warm marlin]

you mean the talent build or the big red warning on the hero talent

[cursive tundra]

big red warning

talent build is from wowhead raid council, I would assume it's fine-ish

[warm marlin]

the warning is cosmetic

[uneven scarab]

Think its a visual bug

ya

[warm marlin]

small indie game and all

[cursive tundra]

okay, thanks

[dry plank]

No it does not work without imp sectech I guess

[warm marlin]

however, the 10% cdr part of that talent just doesn't work regardless of the warning

doesnt matter what talents you take

[vale pine]

yes, the talent works even if it shows as red

the cdr actually does not work

but thats also when its not showing red

[uneven scarab]

that cdr would be great about now

unlucky

[cursive tundra]

yeah i can confirm talent works just fine even if red

i mean the no cd on unseen

the 10% cdr is rip

[graceful perch]

hey guys, which addon is the go to for nameplates atm? is it still plater or platynator?

[uneven scarab]

both work

[solar thicket]

This macro doesnt work anymore?

[serene notch]

@vale pine when you are determining when to use strike vs storm based on target count. Is that determined via testing or via sims or both?

[vale pine]

sims

but you can do the calculation

strike is worth it on 2 targets

but bp is worth it on 2 already

storm outside of dance too

so both testing and simulations

[supple flower]

As noted in the Icy Veins Macros for Subtlety Rogue section: due to a bug it is impossible to include Shadowstrike in a Shadow Dance macro. I know this bug has existed for a while but I'd love for it to get fixed. The ability pruning effort tries to make specs more approachable and being able to macro abilities together rather than having to press keys in quick succession helps elderly gamers like myself. Is it worth adding this bug to the Subtlety bugs spreadsheet or have we just given up on this ever getting fixed?

[serene notch]

I think this is a hard thing for new players, if you just read the raw damage on the tool tip I think strike is like 10x damage compared to storm

[uneven scarab]

it may it may not but you wouldn’t wanna use it anyway

[vale pine]

technically

not being able to use dance during dance is a bug

so there is a lot of things you can consider bugs

the stance swap stuff is something that blizz added on accident

and it seems wasn't able to fix after

so its unlikely to get fixed

but could still be added

[supple flower]

Yes I remember a time when this worked. My hope is that it might get revisited if it's being prioritized by the community by being on the bug list. Otherwise the chance of them fixing it might be slim.

[vale pine]

yes, fair

[harsh meadow]

Sub is hands down the most bugged spec right

It doesn’t even seem close either

[uneven scarab]

Strike breaking after vanishing still exists

[vale pine]

always had a lot of bugs

but alpha is buggy for everyone

so it not only subtlety

[harsh meadow]

Ye I meant historically

[vale pine]

a lot of bugs are in part because of design

e.g. shadowlands did split up damage in multiple parts

so what previousely was one big evis

was suddenly evis + when find weakness is up a shadow part

it did the exact same damage tho

if you combined parts

[uneven scarab]

i miss one big evis

[vale pine]

so blizz removed evis rank 2

to create this new option

it is a good example to showcase design decisions

because what was done was, from making one spell have all the surface area for bugs

is to split them on 3

and add a new dependency

because you woudl now ONLY do the same damage if find weakness is up

and find weakness is a single target debuff

[tropic pier]

wheres the bugsheet 👁️

[vale pine]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[vale pine]

and design decisions like this are all over subtlety

this is why we see so many bugs

[tropic pier]

https://tenor.com/bJYi1.gif

[vale pine]

to make things worse

these bugs are all on top of existing bugs

like with stealth/dance/vanish/etc

[swift tinsel]

wait is that John Blizzard himself

omgomgomg

[vale pine]

haha

[uneven scarab]

“lingering darkness does not buff shadow clones”

[vale pine]

shadow clones are similar

they are pet attacks

[uneven scarab]

yeah def very buggy

[vale pine]

which already makes it difficult

but also not all of them are pet attacks

[uneven scarab]

the way they are implemented

[vale pine]

some are regular spells

[upper cosmos]

wait so does orc passive effect them?

[vale pine]

so there at least exists 2 versions of shadow clones, potentially more

[uneven scarab]

hold UP

[vale pine]

good question, i tested this stuff ages ago

but i don't actually know

[tropic pier]

No that's my brother

[halcyon pendant]

Do we have a list of the haste break points? i cant, for the life of me, find our gcd duration lol...

[tropic pier]

im john warcraft

[upper cosmos]

different dads?

[swift tinsel]

brothers with the same first name, nice

[uneven scarab]

Something like 15-20% in aoe and 30-35% st

There u go

[halcyon pendant]

so vague lol

thank you tho

[uneven scarab]

it be prepatch

[vale pine]

well technically

you might want even more than the theoretical point

[halcyon pendant]

Yeah

[vale pine]

because of your inpur lag and human error

sooo

it nees to be vague

[halcyon pendant]

i guess

[uneven scarab]

Its also prepatch and we are missing lots of midnight stuff

things can change

[crystal bone]

min maxing for day 1 leveling

[uneven scarab]

[crystal bone]

that will get replaced with greens in 1 month

[halcyon pendant]

It's just between 12 and 20% haste you have a good margin of time, like .8 secs

[upper cosmos]

I'm less doom about sub after doing a hc with it and apex talents will make it even more complete so I'm hopeful now

[swift tinsel]

most based take

[uneven scarab]

Ive done a couple keys, imo the only thing im like ?? About is not being able to get 2 sectech in blades window

everything else feels great to me

[upper cosmos]

still, fuck haste breakpoints w/o the ability to reforge stats. my bags are gonna be a mess with all the gear I need to horde now and all the gold spent on gem/enchants

[swift tinsel]

yeah that part is pretty stinky, really hoping they add a charge/+1 use to sectech during blades

[uneven scarab]

literally everything outside of that feels great to me

its just that

[swift tinsel]

or make it one use per dance like people said earlier

[uneven scarab]

One use per dance

Is perfect

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'd be down with that

[uneven scarab]

dont see anything wrong with that considering thats essentially what we had before

[plush roost]

I think they should make it one use per moon cycle personally

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[halcyon pendant]

shadow cycles

[uneven scarab]

so like how it is rn?

[swift tinsel]

wait like the astronomy cycle or biological one

[uneven scarab]

feels like once a blue moon i get to press it

[plush roost]

And when theres a lunar eclipse, its 5 sec gcd

[upper cosmos]

oh and give sub a bleed on a builder like hemo was for pvp at least

[plush roost]

Oh and, if youre watching transformers 3: dark (shadow!) Side of the moon

You can use your secret technique to be secretive

[swift tinsel]

I watched that movie the first time I took shrooms and it was a wild ride

[upper cosmos]

f BS f gloom, gimme hemo back (glyphed)

[plush roost]

Granted hemo is now a stealth only builder

Less dps than shadowstrike

[swift tinsel]

ngl it would be kinda cool if strike built up a bleed or dot

strike/storm

what Lingerging could have been

[uneven scarab]

just turn strike into hemo

ez

I personally think we should have some sort of shadow dot

[fallow nimbus]

damn. did bcdm got some updates? looking real clean

[swift tinsel]

wasn't hemo just a dot builder you used once per X seconds

[ionic quarry]

please dont bring back nightblade rupture was perfectly fine

[swift tinsel]

at least one iteration

[uneven scarab]

Yeah u just used it to keep up the dot

[plush roost]

And then u cash out said bleed with secretmarkeddeathfromforabovetechnique:⚠️ death 💀

[swift tinsel]

nah no thanks

[uneven scarab]

I literally just want rupture back but purple color

thats what im asking

[swift tinsel]

no poopoo dot please

[ionic quarry]

same man i came back to tww last id and i was like, man classes are fun and sub feels very good

[swift tinsel]

only bigman Dance dot

[uneven scarab]

Bigman dance dot

[fallow nimbus]

now we need skins for the ugly bars

[ionic quarry]

then prepatch came and now i am the most sad person on the planet

[uneven scarab]

Was the good part

[upper cosmos]

some kind of.... blade of the night?

[uneven scarab]

Dave agrees

[plush roost]

Omg i got it

[swift tinsel]

#nomaintenancedotsthatdontdoanythinginteresting

[plush roost]

(GOREMAWS)Biteblade

[upper cosmos]

or on fights you couldn't backstab.

[plush roost]

Shadow dot that increases your damage dealt for 15 seconds!!!

Original.idea.donotsteal

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1342596269193039943/9l2o5h.gif

[uneven scarab]

I want rupture back, but it only activates during dance and its applied by secret tech and it just does 1 gazillion damage

[swift tinsel]

if rupture comes back

[uneven scarab]

seems good

[plush roost]

I want rupture back but only if it rng snapshots during my ashes of the embersoul window into a shadowed rupture

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/based-gif-1673314502785460561

[uneven scarab]

man

between that

And shadowdust

sub was peak

[swift tinsel]

peak

[uneven scarab]

So fucking good

Dopamine levels at the time were astronomical

[upper cosmos]

aaaaand ya lost me

S2 SL was peak sub gameplay, 1min flag 2min SB

[uneven scarab]

thats outlaw gameplay

im GUCCI

Dust sub was easily the best

triple sectech opener

I miss her

[ionic quarry]

why do they always go from good iterations to lobotomy of classes

ill never understand

[uneven scarab]

because they think it’ll draw more players in the game

which, it likely will

but it does hurt

[serene notch]

If sub goes from constantly being the bottom five most played specs and moves up, then empirically they were right and the objective was met.

Conversely if that does not happen, then the experiment failed.

[alpine wraith]

rogue would first need to enter top 15 classes

[swift tinsel]

anecdotally I know multiple people who are trying and enjoying it

[alpine wraith]

before sub becomes top 5

[swift tinsel]

after being too 'intimidated' previously

[alpine wraith]

i wish more people enjoy sub tho

[upper cosmos]

I meeean, it means they made it more accessible, idk about "right".

[swift tinsel]

accessible is the goal

[ionic quarry]

accessible yes, braindead as well tho

[uneven scarab]

Same, we’d get more bugfixes

[swift tinsel]

hardly braindead

there are def still ways to brick your damage

[serene notch]

Honestly same, I hope more people play sub

[uneven scarab]

def not braindead

[alpine wraith]

most of the brain power will come to spend cds resoursefully

[uneven scarab]

like

[alpine wraith]

not pressing the buttons

[swift tinsel]

its just not nearly as punishing as it was

[alpine wraith]

so even more planning

[uneven scarab]

My friend i play with first time bm hunter this patch, was GAPPING our whole team 25 ilvls under

THATS braindead

[swift tinsel]

yea BM big big offender

[plush roost]

The fact that this channel is way more active and has many new faces tells me the changes are good overall

[swift tinsel]

^^

[ionic quarry]

yes but im not referring to performance but rather gameplay

[uneven scarab]

agreed

[plush roost]

Also it has depth people just dont see it yet

[uneven scarab]

im used to seeing the same 3 people in here bro

[serene notch]

Have to agree with this fact

[swift tinsel]

bm gameplay is doodoobutts

[ionic quarry]

well as i said i came back to tww last id and now i hate sub

[swift tinsel]

zero thought

[uneven scarab]

yeah fuck that shit, surv on the other hand looks insanely fun though

[plush roost]

You play it on beta or just prepatch?

[runic sequoia]

Surely more people in every class disc happens in prepatch

[alpine wraith]

tbh cant wait to make excel sheets of how much haste you need to be albe to sec tech adds always in x boss

[harsh meadow]

One hundred percent. I haven’t played rogue since bfa and I immediately saw these changes and very much considering maining rogue

[swift tinsel]

Surv has been quite fun on beta

very simple

big boom blastin

[uneven scarab]

me like boomstick

[ionic quarry]

just prepatch

[harsh meadow]

And tbh ravenholdt in general is one of the better class discords

[swift tinsel]

boils down to "buff everything with Tip of the Spear"

[uneven scarab]

💯

[plush roost]

Yeah apex talents completely change this spec in a very enjoyable way

[harsh meadow]

Some of them people are just so mean

[swift tinsel]

actively kinda dreading that lol

[uneven scarab]

i cant wait for apex tbh

its gonna be so fun

[swift tinsel]

apex is neat

seeing lil clone bros

[harsh meadow]

I hope they fix all the bugs from our clones

[swift tinsel]

was annoying that it's been bugged

and getting way less stacks

[plush roost]

Its very fun esp since you have so much atkspeed from haste warning signs charging up sht

[uneven scarab]

the thing ive been wanting for years finally happening tho

W’s

[ionic quarry]

i really hope it does elevate the gameplay aspect because right now pressind dance and blades just feels ungabunga stupid

[swift tinsel]

also very much hoping they make apex refund buff all of sectech

[harsh meadow]

we will find min max tech I’m not worried about that we just need more fleshed out sims and get closer to release

[swift tinsel]

tbf pressing flag and sod didn't feel special

[ionic quarry]

its the most dumbed down builder spender rotation ive ever played, reminds me of end of legion havoc

[uneven scarab]

to me it was like pressing slice

[plush roost]

The cp refund from tww is baked into the apex talent but now it summons clones that replicate the damage. There is minmax in making your apex trigger on coup/DN superchargers. There is minmax in timing sectecs and pooling. The depth is there

[ionic quarry]

it didnt feel special but you had more than 3 buttons in your opener, there was at least something to maintain, more abilities to pay attention to

[swift tinsel]

I mean at its base sub was always just a builder spender rotation

the extra shit tacked on was just that

[harsh meadow]

everything is a builder spender ngl

[swift tinsel]

having a piano opener doesn't mean its good gameplay

[serene notch]

Not sure if I agree, I think there was a mind muscle connection with a multiple button opener, like “I’m about to fuck this thing up”

[ionic quarry]

truest true but at least it had some nieche to it

[ionic quarry]

this yes, i loved that

[harsh meadow]

ya and I hear you, it’s definitely the easiest its been but I think easy can still be fun

[swift tinsel]

I mean its more about "I'm going to use my cooldowns at the right time to fuck this thing up"

[harsh meadow]

If done right

[swift tinsel]

instead of "I'm going to press these redundant buttons"

[upper cosmos]

lining everything up just right with 18stacks of prism

[uneven scarab]

Losing prism hurts more than most of the other shit ngl

[swift tinsel]

lmao yeah

[uneven scarab]

insane trinket

[swift tinsel]

subs giant burst atm from prism is going to be missed

[ionic quarry]

looking forward to it then, as long as theres depth to a simple spec its fine i guess, still id like to have more than 3 buttons

[harsh meadow]

isn’t there a 1:30 on use trinket coming

[hazy breach]

It's using sectech regardless of dn or not,wasn't a gain to limit it from what I could tell

[uneven scarab]

haste = attack speed now too right? So we are brrring in cooldowns

[swift tinsel]

yeah

bonus SnD speed from Swift Slasher

on top of just AA faster from it being haste

[uneven scarab]

should be fun

[swift tinsel]

lil double-dipperino

scales with lust as well

[harsh meadow]

[uneven scarab]

i can stop screaming at my priest for pi’ing me now

and just accept the pi

[ionic quarry]

but you cant tell me that seeing "melee" in meters is exciting

[lilac stag]

Guess what

[swift tinsel]

its noticable finally

[lilac stag]

That’s everyone

[swift tinsel]

^^

we're not even the worst offender

look at outlaw lmao

[uneven scarab]

i mean i have no issue with it tbh

i think its cool

i wonder what arms melee is like also

[swift tinsel]

and increased autos means increased ShT generation

[harsh meadow]

arms warrior 🥀

[maiden oar]

how come the recommended build takes tight spender over improved ambush

[swift tinsel]

so we directly benefit from more auto attacks

[maiden oar]

i thought shadowstrike was really good

[lilac stag]

You ll be rewarded for staying on a target. Min maxing is how you cheese uptime.

[ionic quarry]

i think its cool too to see it having impact, but having so many things dip into it is just not very interesting

[ionic quarry]

well yeah not being at boss is not being able to press buttons anyways

[warm marlin]

strike stonks down compared to before

[swift tinsel]

idk thats what makes it interesting to me

[uneven scarab]

Im mostly curios about the s1 tier sets

[swift tinsel]

having multiple interactions

[uneven scarab]

wonder if they’ll be wild or super plain like they have been for the first season

[swift tinsel]

vs just being white damage and no other hooks

[ionic quarry]

i see

[swift tinsel]

s1 set is fairly nice

[ionic quarry]

idk ill hope it plays well at 90 at least

[swift tinsel]

the blades extension is cool

[uneven scarab]

havent seen

[swift tinsel]

iirc also finisher damage?

for 2pc

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[swift tinsel]

idr

but 4pc makes blades 20sec

[uneven scarab]

Yeah they remembered we are a finisher spec

[lilac stag]

Spec is just a vibe. They got rid of the krangked redundant CDs.

[uneven scarab]

and buffed finishers

[ionic quarry]

kinda weird seeing things like symbols and rupture be removed even if rupture wasnt interesting overall

[swift tinsel]

that's why I'm happy to see it gone lol

[uneven scarab]

ill say it again though, rupture and sod before goremaws is criminal

[swift tinsel]

personally feel a lot of the rupture missers are upset we lost X and not that ability particularly

[ionic quarry]

ya but now or rupture white number is melee white number

[keen dome]

I do think another button would be nice, but I have no clue what or how. I need something to go where rupture went!!

[swift tinsel]

on-use trinket is my old rupture bind now lol

[ionic quarry]

literally this my entire actionbars are empty

[fossil forge]

its kinda boring aint even gon cap

[swift tinsel]

but might become something else since that's probs getting macroed

dude if you wanna see truly empty bars

[fossil forge]

im pressing 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 2 1 2

[swift tinsel]

play devourer

[ionic quarry]

i tried it

it feels clunky

[uneven scarab]

You can say this for every single dps in the game

right now

[swift tinsel]

you literally spend 70% of your time pressing your builder

[uneven scarab]

aint just sub

[fossil forge]

so joever

[swift tinsel]

idk I don't feel sub is destitute for buttons

[uneven scarab]

i think its fine

[keen dome]

I bet they add a new button with TLT now we're peeled back to the basics

[swift tinsel]

bs,strike, evisc, sectech, storm, bp, dance, blades,

[keen dome]

I also agree it's fine. I think it's better for the game overall to revert to 1 and build back up

[swift tinsel]

snd if you're feeling saucy

that's as many buttons as most specs have in their typical rotation

if not more

[lilac stag]

Play some outlaw if you want an extra button or two

[charred kestrel]

Try playing fire atm

[uneven scarab]

^

[swift tinsel]

ss, ps, dispatch, bte, rtb, adr, blade rush, fb

[charred kestrel]

It’s literally fireball simulator

[uneven scarab]

fireball ib fireball ib fireball ib

100x

[lilac stag]

[ionic quarry]

dark times it seems

[uneven scarab]

Fire was one of those specs that didnt need buttons removed

just talents

[charred kestrel]

Untill you run out of ib**

[uneven scarab]

but alas

[keen dome]

It's better for the game long-term. It's going to allow a lot more people play better, and that's good. And it'll aslo improve over time.

[swift tinsel]

but yeah across the board, sub is very typical or even has a greater number of rotational abilities

and its way, way more intuitive

[charred kestrel]

They added scorch back just to give fire access to one more ability that they don’t even want to use

[keen dome]

Yeah it rules

[charred kestrel]

🤣🤣

[ionic quarry]

BUT LET ME PRES SMORE SECTECH THO

[swift tinsel]

bs/strike in st, storm in aoe

[uneven scarab]

new defensive talent goated

i like it

[keen dome]

yeah, it's cool

Very rogue

[swift tinsel]

sectech cd does need to be looked at though

[keen dome]

I'm a big fan of where they put shot in the dark

[swift tinsel]

useage causes too much friction

[uneven scarab]

Either needs to be hasted harder or just given every dance

[keen dome]

Yeah

[ionic quarry]

i am most surprised that they took away the cd reset aspect of the spec

[keen dome]

SecTec in general could do with a bit of refinement

[uneven scarab]

Tbh i think thats where newer players got confused, so it does make sense. Even if it was second nature to most of us

[keen dome]

Something I think could be fun is a debuff you put on one enemy that spawns clones that replicate X abilities but this could get way too complex too fast.

[bleak night]

[uneven scarab]

Kyveza massacre?

just give us that tbh

[ionic quarry]

ya but if someone is confused about something they can always read the passive and press buttons to see what happens. nobody expects a boosted character to play the correct rotation, but in my opinion you learn the spec as youre leveling

or is that a dumb take

[keen dome]

Yes

Yo, give us Ky'veza's Queensbane

Or w/e it is. Her assassinate thing

this is what I was thinking

[uneven scarab]

Oh tbh i completely agree, i actually work the same way. But unfortunately you can’t expect that of the majority of this playerbase

[uneven scarab]

Ooooh yes

yep

[ionic quarry]

like i understand that people hate reading but thats been a thing since gaming exists

[jovial forge]

Leveling is too fast now, and the leveling mobs tend to die before you can learn boss rotations.

[swift tinsel]

yeah leveling doesn't serve the same purpose it did in years past

since its such a truncated experience now

[ionic quarry]

ah i wasnt aware of that

[keen dome]

It's also overwhelming.

You get a talent every single levle and have to put it into something. Like, go back to MoP tlaents.

[swift tinsel]

yeah its not until considerably later on in the leveling process (basically when you hit current content) that you're getting a more fleshed-out rotational experience

[ionic quarry]

hell no

[fossil forge]

dimmy is hella free rn

[ionic quarry]

mop talents where one of the worst design choices ever imo

[bleak night]

This was explicitly a reason why they added these new talents in the first place lol

[ionic quarry]

i came back to tww because mop bored the hell out of me

[keen dome]

Current talents are effectively the same but with way more chaff and way more balance issues.

mmmm delicious talent choices

[uneven scarab]

Playing rogue before level 20 is also probably the worst leveling experience you can have

[swift tinsel]

Change improved sectech to: no longer has a cooldown but can only be used once in dance

and adjust damage

[uneven scarab]

give this man a job

right now

[swift tinsel]

nty

[keen dome]

Ye I'd love that

[swift tinsel]

I do not want to work for blizzard, have heard nightmarish things about crunch time

[keen dome]

Also their pay is shit

[uneven scarab]

yeah they might drink your boobie milk too

[ionic quarry]

but then you just press sectech out of dance windows and in aoe nonstop

[swift tinsel]

plus my vision for the spec would not mesh overall I feel

[ionic quarry]

might as well remove blackpowder and evis?

or whats the idea behind that