subtlety

[tribal blade]

i like the model too

[fossil forge]

i really just was tired of being a fat tauren

[swift tinsel]

nelf armor model is really nice

[tribal blade]

nelf looks really nice

[fossil forge]

with tauren extra hp u could survive 1 flying orb on mythic araz first few weeks

[swift tinsel]

dwarf too stubby, same with gnome and goblin

[fossil forge]

was very pog for prog

[tribal blade]

i'm very happy being a nelf right now even though i'm stuck with 1% haste

[swift tinsel]

tauren, trolls no shoes puts me off lol

[lilac stag]

Congrats on being flat out wrong.

[scenic plover]

cooked

[fossil forge]

average scatch 10/10 ragebait

yea meme mogs are hella nice on tauren but actually making a custom mog is hard when every piece of gear loses something

because ur built like a brick

[tropic latch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[graceful osprey]

Meanwhile will of the forsaken might have a use or two lol

[swift tinsel]

any reason to go undead is a good reason

managed to down araz after pulling for an extra 30mins for our RL's sanity on our last raid night of the season

only 92 pulls lol

[haughty mural]

gratz

did you atleast get trinket ``

[swift tinsel]

nah we got doodoo loot lol

2 OH mystic tier and leather boots

[limpid sage]

I miss having a second vanish for resetting TFD for cds so much

But maghar is just so much more dmg in cds

[tribal blade]

yeah true it's pretty good TFD reset value

[round thorn]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lilac stag]

Think they mean you can buy it now

[red flame]

Joining the convo late but I really enjoy my rogue being VElf ; Entropic Embrace is OP imo & Spatial Rift is super super nice + QOL to have

[woeful wren]

Does any1 have a wcl expression to show coups outside of shadowdance?

[red flame]

VElf with “the Death Stalker” title but I frequently use the recalibrator to get female undead bc that special attacking animation is peak

If that counts

[hazy breach]

Press the shadow dance icon here once to show damage done during it, and twice to show damage done outside of it

[woeful wren]

cheers

[hazy breach]

(sectech clones are bugged though, so they always show up outside, regardless of which buff you press)

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/big-neck-dancing-turkey-turkey-run-running-turkey-funny-gif-12916919

it's unfortunate that araz doesn't log damage on shielded adds after 11.2.5, wasted casts

[glacial lintel]

How do you guys approach high keys on big moma? Are you main targeting moma or sending on adds?

[fleet acorn]

As sub u Go Main Target and cleave

[graceful osprey]

Close enough lol

[deft bobcat]

how much crit would you ideally want as sub?

or what would be minimum amount?

[tepid trellis]

However much the robot tells you to equip

[north schooner]

the following filter expression works for sectec too (the AND source.name = "<name>" will need the rogue's name and it's not needed if only 1 sub rogue is in the fight)

NOT IN RANGE FROM type = "applybuff" AND ability.name = "Shadow Dance" AND source.name = "<name>" TO type = "removebuff" AND ability.name = "Shadow Dance" AND source.name = "<name>" END

[woeful wren]

ty bro

[regal rose]

with bullions is prism trinket the best first item to get ?

nm pins

i see it

is prism trinket still worth getting on heroic?

since i dont raid ?

[cursive vapor]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[cursive vapor]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[shy flare]

Without a doubt yes

[distant sage]

it better than most myth trikets if not all of them for sub

[lime edge]

is there a reason fewer and fewer use the coldblood build in m+?

[distant sage]

the feel i guess

with vigor and tea you never feel out of gas

or its just better

[azure thicket]

cold blood works better in low count / boss heavy dungeons

so like dawnbreaker prefers cold blood i think?

everywhere else thistle tea is cuter in aoe and also more finishers etc

[short radish]

uwu thistle tea dont look at me like that

[coarse hound]

Uwu thistle tea-chan you are so fragrant 🍵

[merry agate]

[carmine portal]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[carmine portal]

!backstab

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[astral pewter]

Should I keep prism and shadowblades separate and not in a macro together?

I feel like im sending them together all the time, but sometimes maybe saving for a next bigger pull etc. is more important?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[shut hatch]

So, I use a dance stab macro, followed by a symbols tea macro. I feel like it's working pretty well, have I missed something? Is there some tech I am missing out on?
Teach me senpais.

Also have blades sectech macro and blades trink sectech macro I alternate between

[lilac stag]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[fleet acorn]

anyone using on loom a dance charge forthe infused tangle

[sturdy moat]

What dungeons do yall run dark brew on (if any)?

and what do you drop for it

[lilac stag]

none

[sturdy moat]

good to know

[shrewd lantern]

no your range should stop afking

[fleet acorn]

ty i was wondering how hard it is for me to nuke them

no charges

backstabbing like hell

[little scaffold]

rogue shouldnt even swap to them imo

[fallow nimbus]

Keep focusing boss and let cleave do the rest

[limber folio]

@tepid trellis is there any reason my sim is so ass https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/juB9t57NbZ9bzW8eviD9gm

[warm marlin]

you are simming a subtlety rogue

fix that and the sim will improve

[tepid trellis]

^

[alpine wraith]

you may want to sim MM hunter

[limber folio]

ah ye ofcourse

[hazy breach]

One of the worst ST specs in the game will indeed sim low on pure ST

[limber folio]

might just do reclear on sub

just to see how it is

only thing is actually using dances correctly

[supple verge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limber folio]

but do you think id have the possibility to even improve my logs on any bosses here, looking at my logs?; https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/88180727

just thinking mostly about the 6 first

since ive yet to get into a guild again who reclears

[distant sage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qXBwfqSeaEGSouUgf7Vkup

[limber folio]

why you relinking my sim

🤨

[distant sage]

mb og

[limber folio]

xDDD

nw

[distant sage]

wanted to ask if antena outsims araz forge with prism for you

[limber folio]

ohhh

it doesnt seem like it

well

i did another sim infact

with some tweaks

lemme link it 2 sec

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7NtpbijpX5dyUeB5QGvcu9

the difference is like

8k

[distant sage]

current gear is heroic prism with myth antena

[limber folio]

id pick prism

if u wanna multispec

[distant sage]

forge and prism sims better for me as well in ST but in dslice antena outsims them

[limber folio]

idk

its more up to what you want

prism and antenna is a solid choice for both sub and assa

but if youre just otp sub

id go with forge+prism ig

[vast tusk]

Hi guys, what are some good macros to have?

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[shrewd lantern]

antenna always oversims forge

[alpine raft]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shy flare]

Is pacemaker sim bait? I just don’t see many raid logs or top m+ rogues using it

If rocking heroic prism do you think I should get run a heroic ritual forge with it or keep my mythic pacemaker?

[placid elk]

antena is better and easy to get thats why nobody uses pacemaker

[shy flare]

Is mythic loomithar easy to pug? I just started trying to pug mythic raid past 2 weeks and finally got kills on 1st boss and soulbinder last night

[vale pine]

its not bait, it sims worse than raid equivalents

[shy flare]

I guess all the top rogues just have access to mythic raid trinkets where as I’m comparing against heroic raid trinkets is likely the issue

[warm goblet]

its a bit 50/50 imo, some groups genuinely CANT kill the boss for whatever reason while others just 1 pull it like the first 2 bosses

but definitely worth fishing for, worst case scenario you miss one week and get it the next one

[shy flare]

1st and soulbinder seem so ridiculously free but I still struggled to find a group that could kill 1st boss lol. But now that I have those kills under my belt hopefully I can get into better groups. I really want a mythic ritual forge

Mythic raid ids are still unique right? Like I can’t join a different group that killed the same bosses?

[warm goblet]

not sure how puggable araz is, but i know there are coordinated groups that kill it regularly

some weekly runs even do 5/8 each week, idk if there are many left at this point

[shy flare]

I’ve seen some advertising in group finder for Araz so there is a glimmer of hope

[warm goblet]

correct

[shy flare]

Is there any community discord servers for finding raid groups?

[warm goblet]

i think the achievement discord has a section for that, but I left it a couple of months ago so not sure how active it is

some streamers do mythic viewer raids, granted you're subbed you can take a look at that

[wild vine]

most people just use the tool ingame

[smoky tide]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[scenic plover]

is nimble flurry the same range as blade flurry?

[tepid trellis]

if its 8yards around you then yes

[vale pine]

it originates from BF, so unlike assassiantions version, it behaves just like bf

[scenic plover]

ok, i had used my bf target count wa to see if enemies are in range but never checked if its the same rang

ty

[vale pine]

👍 we sadly lose these weakauras in midnight

[scenic plover]

midnight gonna be a crash

i feel like as sub i wont struggle too much, i am not reaction to any procs right now anyway

[vale pine]

the midnight subtlety iteration is fairly incomplete

so atm you probably won't because i don't think it would see play

[supple verge]

nirvana

[oak grotto]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[supple verge]

wound poison works against fish stick heal right?

[vale pine]

yes

[scenic plover]

sadge, i only know sub and outlaw

[vale pine]

there is still a long time before midnight

[placid elk]

few months, with december being mostly off and ppl not caring about work, january being start of year and people coming to work hungover

[vale pine]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[plucky mesa]

i had to stop playing sub because the ST in raid was buns

[short radish]

good thing the majority of the raid isn't ST though

[plucky mesa]

literally half the raid is ST lol

[short radish]

Plexus - ST
Loomithar - ST
Soul binder - Cleave/adds
Araz - Cleave/adds
Soul hunter - Cleave
Frac - ST
Salad - Cleave/Adds
Dimensius - Cleave/adds

[maiden oar]

u can still go insane on st

unless u are playing with people who are like all playing perfectly

sub can be on top of the meters in fract if u try ur hardest and also get disorienting prepull

[plucky mesa]

i dont think most people consider dimi cleave, even on mythic, the only thing u can cleave on is the platforms and with how bad ST is for raid for them youll still be on the bottom, especially since u cant really cleave the adds in p1

[short radish]

dunno man. It's not as important now because damage typically isn't your main issues anymore but adds on platform are still important

also sub is still one the top performing specs on dimensius

[short radish]

or the BM hunter just crits black arrow

[maiden oar]

hard work and passion and determination are stronger than critting black arrow sometimes

but if they crit black arrow too much then fighting spirit always loses

[short radish]

like i know im arguing that even though sub ST is weak it's still fine for raid

but being gapped by 10% is still kinda sad beans

for same parse %

[maiden oar]

yeah like i feel really cool here but the ele sham still gaps me by a ton

[short radish]

sad beans 🙁

[maiden oar]

but i dont mind bc i tried my best and i performed well

if my guys 3rd thats fine

like the st isnt pathetic if u go crazy that pull

[short radish]

based

yeah

[maiden oar]

but its not #1

[short radish]

don't have to win at everything as well

unless youre a BM hunter

[maiden oar]

hehe

well idk the way i look at it is that the only thing that matters is playing well and learning and good logs / being on top of the meters come as a natural consequence

so if i grind and learn and grow then one patch sub has the best st

and then i win big

[short radish]

yea people (me included sometimes) get caught up comparing to other classes/specs too much

[warm marlin]

sub is literally the number one spec for that fight wdym

[short radish]

but at least we're not in s2 anymore

[short radish]

assi has taken over i think

[warm marlin]

for now

[short radish]

i still need to figure out what im missing on that fight

other than shitty timings

but all the other top logs are also not flagging p2.2

[maiden oar]

i am doing something insanely wrong on dimensius and i dont know what

it is the one fight that eludes me

surely i will figure this out before reset

[short radish]

maybe the answer is afking more before burn

[warm marlin]

i wouldnt spend too much effort on it before 15% buff

[short radish]

[maiden oar]

oh im not like playing for asp or anything i just want to learn to do the fights correctly so then im stronger

so might as well explode it this week

if i can figure it out..

[maiden oar]

i do keep a coup and at least 7 sht

[maiden oar]

do u expect it to change a ton?

i feel like only potential change if u fast push is 2nd flag in p1 becomes a flag on artoshion platform but i dont think that should require a ton of relearning

[short radish]

maybe the answer is to just crit more

[warm marlin]

no, other than maybe not being able to flag p1 twice

[maiden oar]

[short radish]

im getting gapped in the burn though

[maiden oar]

yeah im just getting gapped in general so i gotta figure something out

weird fight!

[short radish]

ye i dont like it

[warm marlin]

my point was more a lot of people are still holding

[maiden oar]

ah ok

[warm marlin]

i know my log is like 1min faster than most of thetop 10

[maiden oar]

we are holding pargoth still but

[warm marlin]

its impossible to compare those

[short radish]

thank fuck i gaslamped my RL into holding pushing until we get the 4th set down

[warm marlin]

ye

[maiden oar]

i was just trying to ccopy annsie anyway to learn 1 flag p2

[warm marlin]

we dont hold at all

zugzug gogo

[maiden oar]

and maybe thats a mistake

and i should be doing 1 p2 flag on parger platform

if those are my circumstances

we only hold pargoth and send every other time

[warm marlin]

can you even double send p2 without holding artoshion as well

surely you lose amp flag

[maiden oar]

i dont think u can

i was just trying to single flag artoshion bc i figured thatd be what id be doing once we stopped holding pargoth anyway but maybe i should make the best of my unique situation this week

[short radish]

yeah i dont think theres a way to send on arto

unless its some weird scuffed hold p1 and send right at the start of p2.2 + get autumn

even then thats questionable

[warm marlin]

with how fast we kill arto still wouldnt work

[short radish]

ye

[maiden oar]

i am noticing that p2 dmg seems to not matter

looking @ top log breakdown

[short radish]

maybe the difference is me not playing orc

[maiden oar]

oh yeah im dwarf

i forgot that maghar people naturally gap me

but also i dont feel like being not a dwarf

[short radish]

same except human because i need stunbreak

[warm marlin]

dwarf ick

human goated

[maiden oar]

i like playing as a funny little guy

[short radish]

no i dont pvp anymore but im still a monkey in pve

[maiden oar]

i laugh whenever i see my character

[short radish]

stun break has saved me too many times

lmao

those broken glass bottles for daggers?

[maiden oar]

but i figured dwarf has the best balance of looking silly and good defensive racial and offensive racial

yeah

but i could be leaivng alot of dmg on the table not playing maghar i dont know

[short radish]

difference is supposed to be like 1% or something

or not even

but i think that gets amped in amp

[maiden oar]

no i tghink dwarf is pretty good

its just amps and cleave

dwarf sims similarly to maghar but in real situations i think maghar is better

[warm marlin]

maghar is much much better than sim suggests

imo

[maiden oar]

yeah i agree with u

maybe i should swap

[warm marlin]

fun fact for example

vulpera vs. maghar in nexus king dmg amp

[maiden oar]

idk how much im being handicapped by my racial choice bc im a noob

[warm marlin]

what do u think is the diff in %

[maiden oar]

no idea i dont even know how id sim that

5%?

[short radish]

4.82%

[warm marlin]

5.3

[maiden oar]

oh im a genius

[short radish]

damn i was close

another whispyr L

[fossil forge]

let me out

[maiden oar]

rooting for u

[short radish]

jia you

[maiden oar]

but also dont be too eager to be done with prog i think prog time is valuable i wish i could be progging still kinda

u learn alot

[fossil forge]

Things are going rather smoothly after guild change

[hushed orbit]

Hola, alguno habla español?

[short radish]

no habla espanol

lo siento

[fossil forge]

Lo siento wilsoooon

[haughty rose]

where can i find midnight class changes? the only 2 links on wowhead are from october 9 and 5 days ago and both don't cover the hast CDR

[short radish]

#midnight-subtlety

[haughty rose]

which is this

https://www.wowhead.com/news/more-class-changes-and-tier-sets-announced-midnight-alpha-development-notes-for-379049

and that

https://www.wowhead.com/news/class-changes-and-ui-improvements-midnight-alpha-test-development-notes-378812

[haughty rose]

crazy how i can't find all of this information on wowhead

also did the haste CDR on dance get scrapped already? didn't read it in the pinned notes

i also remember reading something about cheap shot which i can't find

[short radish]

yeah

haste cdr is gone

now its haste extends dance

[tribal blade]

the shitty timings are making my dps either really good and i'm topping or i'm doing no dam

i'm just praying everyone does no dam in P1

[short radish]

just gotta do more damage than them

[lilac stag]

Those are the changes.

[haughty rose]

yeah went over my head that they scrapped the whole haste CDR thing already

[lilac stag]

Welcome to sub rogue.

Coming Soon TM

[haughty rose]

it's funny because:

[short radish]

yeah thank fuck they scrapped it early

never should have been a thing

but gives slight hope that theyre iterating

[knotty depot]

until they give up.

[haughty rose]

yes current changes look quite alright if i understand them correctly. i still hope haste wont play a huge role but we'll see. hopefully Deathstalker becomes viable in m+. It's fantasy fits sub so well

[short radish]

dont worry there's still 3 months for them to make it good

or 4

surely they will have finished mage/paladin/hunter/devourer before the end of the year

and they can look at the rest of the classes afterwards

[haughty rose]

would be a fun joke if i could believe that it's actually just a joke

[short radish]

the best jokes are the ones with half of the truth baked in it

[lilac stag]

Subtract American Thanksgiving, and all the December holidays.

[short radish]

oh yeah i keep forgetting about thanksgiving

[junior lintel]

Yo guys. Was wondering if there is a big difference between going Thistle Tea and Cold Blood in M+?

[ivory vigil]

not really, cold blood is better boss damage, thistle better aoe and to me it feels better to play it.

[short radish]

cold blood feels better for me because im not good enough to just crit naturally

[lilac stag]

Vigor is a much better feel good if you don’t have smol crit pp

[junior lintel]

Alright, that makes sense, thanks guys ❤️

[fossil forge]

i cant decide between keeping mastery or crit on my neck

I overcap mastery by like 2k or i have 18k crit

Clanker is praising crit

[formal helm]

[fleet acorn]

how do i know which mrt timers of blades do i take out of all these on pugging progress mythic bosses? every week the timer can be different cause diffrent people?

like why there are diffrent blades timers

[distant sage]

forge delay

waiting for forge and using 9 prism stacks

[fleet acorn]

so if i dont use forge i have to look at most blades used logs and 00:04-05 timers with next one around 1:30 mark?

[distant sage]

and if its not forge its probaly wait for knockback

[short radish]

so the logic behind it is that

If you gete only 3 casts of flag because the kill timer is 4 minutes whether you cast flag at
0:00, 1:30, 3:00
or
0:00, 2:00, 3:30

you still get the same flag amounts

The logs that are doing it at 0:00, 2:00 and 3:30 mean they do araz -> araz -> 18 stack prism
instead of the ones at 0:00, 1:30, 3:30 which would be araz -> 9stack prism -> araz

napkin math says the 0:00, 2:00, 3:30 is better but youre also dependent on not killing it quicker than 3:50

that being said if you don't really get it

just play normally

cast off cooldown

even though theres variation it's not like theres a clear winner

[fleet acorn]

so what would help is like enable forge trinket and skip these logs

im a antenna/prism user

[short radish]

honestly mate

just play 0:00, 1:30, 3:00 etc

fuck thinking

just press buttons

because worst case scenario

you hold

and you kill early

and youve just lost a flag usage

[meager coyote]

I got the fucking cold blood bug for the first time

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[meager coyote]

nvm this one isn't even on the list what the fuck

[short radish]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[meager coyote]

it worked fine for like 15 mins tho lol

and then it stopped working in my macro, but kept working when pressed separately

🥲

ah I see in the WA description, lmfao

[short radish]

dw im sure it'll be fixed by midnight

[void hound]

so real

[fleet acorn]

i played like that on progression first boss mythic xd was wondering why no dmg came

[distant sage]

is there any point specing rotten any more

[meager coyote]

yeah it was the 2nd thing - just literally first time I have it happen idk

[astral pewter]

Sorry this might be a dumb question, but what exactly does the shuriken storm do in this scenario?

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[astral pewter]

Oh ok that made a little more sense

Thanks!

[tribal blade]

!fim

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

just checking the bot's working

seems to be good

[fossil forge]

!fimbulvoker

https://tenor.com/view/homer-lol-the-simpsons-marge-lisa-gif-8714260

[short radish]

that summons the SEA fimb

[jaunty heath]

taking a stroll through quick sims is so fun cause of this. Dungeon slice sims chaotic as hell

truly is the most fun the specs been in a while

[lilac stag]

Try !roofooker

[grizzled thorn]

I don't get the first one here "you can hold up coup". How ? Stop using evis and finish with BP?

[lilac stag]

correct

[grizzled thorn]

Even in single target ?

[lilac stag]

that’s how you’re holding coup

[grizzled thorn]

Makes sense hahaha

[lilac stag]

Target count doesn’t matter

[grizzled thorn]

Ty

[tribal blade]

!scath

[short radish]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

No dont BP

Just dont use a finisher

(on AoE you can BP, but the specific thing you asked about was ST only as it says in the command)

[ivory vigil]

I was looking at some logs of other rogue players in m+, and I identified a couple of points where I'm weak: 1 . premeditation has a lot of wasted combo points (shadow dance+backstab macro to blame?), 2. My active DPS time is barely 90% when others are 95%, 3. some rogues have nimble flurry 50% to 80% higher than me, we are talking about 1.5m dps vs 2.5m dps, eviscerate casts in these examples are much more frequent (same for shuriken storm) 4. all finishers avg damages are 20-30% higher than mine, even at the same ilvl. The same rogue simmed only 300k higher than me in dungeon slice. Anyways, this was a good exercise to determine my weak points.

[plush roost]

Something to note is that nimble flurry and evis will be higher depending on comp, pulls, priority damage.

If im playing with fdk bm/dh, i powder. Since the thing slowing the group down will be everything else dying.

If im playing with fury feral for example, the priority damage is way down, and evis rises in value

Also if your finisher damage is consistently 20-30% lower then you are not utilizing flawless form and dance correctly in aoe (common mistake people make is under sending sec tec and dance with all the extra cdr aoe.provides

[latent finch]

Isnt the dance backstab macro also a slight dmg loss if there is no option to press dance into finisher while chaining dances in cds?

[plush roost]

Dance stab should beits own extra keybind

Not having just dance on its own as a keybind is pretty bad

[vale pine]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[ivory vigil]

Ah FF is something I never thought about, will look into it

[vast tusk]

Hi guys, when applying ruptures to a large group of mobs is there a way to set tab targetting to prioritise mobs without rupture

[fleet wharf]

You can use plater mods/scripts to set nameplates to change color based on whether they have a specific debuff or not. Quazii explains how to do it in one of his videos. That being said, that's going away with Midnight, so you may or may not want to invest time now

[plucky mesa]

because it cleaves off adds that it doesnt really need to, the dps is inflated but the boss damage and add that matter damage is gonna be lower than everyone else

[warm marlin]

it still has great p3 damage by virtue of starting with a damage amp and can kill any important add that you want in the entire fight

best melee to kill ranged living mass, best melee to focus voidwarden if necessary

[hazy breach]

When a fight is designed around needing big damage every 90 seconds, the spec that pretty much only does big damage every 90 seconds is really good

If you killed it really early you often got the 3rd blades of in p3 as well, making sub one of the best specs in that phase too

[warm marlin]

on our prog kill i nearly beat the destro on the specific ranged living mass that always died slow, was by far the highest melee for damage to voidwardens (and the highest of any spec on the one that almost wiped us by living until it was gate time), highest damage in p3

spec very good when you can allocate dances to important things and have damage amps and 90s timers as eleem says

[hazy breach]

Obviously timers can be a bit cursed now with excessive gear+raid buffs

But it is what it is

[void hound]

love turbo charge + new upgrade track + raid buff

[fallow nimbus]

Having to use cds on platform 2 without getting autumn is the worst

All my 3 kills are so scuffed and the worst that could happen to 90sec class

[warm marlin]

i havent cded plat2 in a month, too cursed

[fallow nimbus]

I won't ever again

I want to use cds in dmg amp just one time

Last raid was good but the melee soak disappeared and all melees were dead

[warm marlin]

cloak lets you immune that and not get in the soak fwiw

also incredibly troll that if the soak guy dies the soak just disappears instead of letting you still get in it

very good

[leaden prairie]

@vale pine

[sterile sapphire]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[vale pine]

oh thanks, moment

fixed

[leaden prairie]

gg

[vast tusk]

At how many targets do I use shuriken storm instead of backstab as the builder?

[vale pine]

3+

during dance, never

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[fleet acorn]

How do I get casters/Range melee to Attack the Loom mythic adds 😂 I feel so Bad to use a Dance charge on it

[charred kestrel]

depends. do you care if the raid wipes or not?

1. get ur raid lead to tell range to kill them. 2. if you dont care if raid wipes, dont swap.

[maiden oar]

does anyone know what happens if u step to a tangle or cloak and walk through one

can u stand inbetween them and cleave both

idk if thats even worth but itd be funny

[maiden oar]

oh yeah i mean the 2 walls on mythic

wall
me :)
wall
boss

i dont think its worth but i do wonder

[little scaffold]

you can step to them but i would imagine its not worth
rogue should really just be hitting the boss

[short radish]

you gotta be backpeddling as soon as you step

i did that on prog

[maiden oar]

ok ty genius guy

[fossil forge]

you can walk in tangles with cloak

[short radish]

acutally wait no thats back peddling with the grip th9ing on you

you can just step normally

but wait until grip happens

[maiden oar]

[short radish]

sorry been a while since i actively did mechanics

[maiden oar]

hehe

[short radish]

[fossil forge]

#parseislife

[lilac stag]

You don’t need to backpedal. Step takes you to outside of ring. Just stand still.

[short radish]

yeah i was just conflating it with the pull in mechanic as well

[lilac stag]

Volunteer to soak so you have an excuse not to swap

[maiden oar]

i was playing sin on prog (yuck!) and every time the rings came i had to ramp kb

so i never worried about them

must auto boss wahoo

[lilac stag]

I’d just keep wiping until your range figures out what their role is.

[short radish]

^

[fossil forge]

fax

[fleet acorn]

Ye ignoring the tangle as sub is the way no way swapping with a Dance does make Boss easier the add will just die before that and I wont get ur Full Dance dmg

[lilac stag]

sub on that fight is already cringe

[fossil forge]

i was dancing tangles like first week though

[maiden oar]

if u go in between them u can just hit the back one once the front one dies but i think this far into the season that is a little overboard

[maiden oar]

its so cool to flag pot 18 stack prism the amp

blammo!

[lilac stag]

or do that as assa in execute

sub st is shit.

[maiden oar]

if u arent in an insane guild sub can be pretty high up on the meters in st

if every guy in ur guild pink parses every boss then unfortunate but

sub st being bad is no reason to give up

[lilac stag]

And you’d be even higher up on that fight as assa.

[maiden oar]

maybe depends on if i proc the bug

or flip heads enough

[lilac stag]

Not at all

[maiden oar]

i feel like im more in control of my dps as sub for some reason

[lilac stag]

It’s throughout and timings (execute with prism) are just better

the worst ST spec in the game is the one praying for high rolls on the ST fights.

[maiden oar]

hehe

idk i feel like its fine if subs not the best at everything

but it would be cool to be like fdk

or bm hunter

but even so i cant be mad being sub

[lilac stag]

someone has to be the bottom

May as well be sub

The fights that mattered Sub was good

[maiden oar]

yeah id rather be bad at unimportant stuff and good at important stuff

if i had to pick

[lilac stag]

Now good at none.

[maiden oar]

nah nah nah

[lilac stag]

the adds don’t matter arc of the season.

[maiden oar]

theres a big gap between bm hunter and bad

[bleak night]

The secret is to be so bad at the game that specs different strengths and weaknesses don't matter so you play whatever you feel like

Works well for me

[lilac stag]

Mate I’m just talking vs assa

[maiden oar]

oh ok

i think on nexus king and dimmy sub is good

[lilac stag]

How’s Hunter?

[maiden oar]

subs r1 p3 dmg in dimmy is better than sins r1

[bleak night]

One day I will raid as hunter

One glorious day

Although I'm actually considering going druid in midnight unfortunately

[lilac stag]

I showed Fim the warrior changes. I think I broke the Aussie.

[bleak night]

So i can tank and heal

[lilac stag]

Do you have any of the Legion skins?

[bleak night]

No but I'm also not really a huge fan of them anyway

I like stone bear

And the emerald dream cat form

[lilac stag]

the fire kitty and stone bear are my favorites

[bleak night]

Yeah I like the fire kitty ever since they updated it

[lilac stag]

Something about orange cats.

[short radish]

i actually audibled "what the fuck"

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-orange-spin-hat-one-brain-cell-gif-2745719316163357325

[lilac stag]

Are you done reading yet? I know it’s quite the amount of words

[short radish]

yes, i'm not a warrior main

i can read

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

I just did tts.

[short radish]

okay yeah i dont have 6 hours to listen to all the changes

[lilac stag]

Audible Book road trip

[lost karma]

In eco are you guys funneling on sentinels or just BP? I'm progging on 19s 20s atm but I run out of gas when the mobs drop around 15%

Or do you hold CDs until shield break

Which sounds troll

[vagrant fulcrum]

ay just got araz from a pug, is it araz > 90s prism > araz 180 > prism repeat or...

aka do you just throw it in a macro (and have it be higher on the macro) and if the fight would end soon manually press prism?

[lilac stag]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[vagrant fulcrum]

ty boss

also im assuming araz + prism is better than lily n prism right? have all on myth

[lilac stag]

Not necessarily

run sims

[vagrant fulcrum]

life can't ever be simple with this spec can it

will sim, but id be willing to bet money lily wont win

[shrewd lantern]

or just play antenna prism

like a chad

[vagrant fulcrum]

got a hero antenna

[shrewd lantern]

L

[vagrant fulcrum]

was antenna prism for dimmy prog

[bleak night]

or play antenna lily because the world hates you and you never got better than a champ prism

[vagrant fulcrum]

hey, that was me

litterally

until turboboost

[shrewd lantern]

i got our guilds first and only natty myth prism drop

[vagrant fulcrum]

on dimmy with champ antenna fml

[shrewd lantern]

myth pace first vault

[vagrant fulcrum]

i don't think we ever looted a myth prism

or if we did it probably went to idk a dk or something

[shrewd lantern]

going to dk over rogue

is a choice

[bleak night]

we looted like 3 prisms and i didnt get any of them

[vagrant fulcrum]

I think the thought process was

[bleak night]

[vagrant fulcrum]

actually nah

it went to the 2nd hunt

and tbf i cant blame them

black arrow > black powder 🙂

first kill, i was 4/14 or so

green parsing bm almost beats sin xd

[shrewd lantern]

now everyone is 729

crazy

[vagrant fulcrum]

tell a lie

we didnt get a single prism

both hunts had hero

[lilac stag]

Yeah the right one.

[vagrant fulcrum]

to be fair unholy is absolutely unhinged with netherprism if you don't lust on pull

and our dk does pref UH

but nah, we never got a myth prism, only ever got hero track ones and they went to hunters

on the bright side I had myth lily by then so I wasn't too sad

[lilac stag]

I’m on our LC. We sent our one mythic drop to our DK.

legit best use on every fight

[maiden oar]

i got bailed out by getting a mythic one in my vault

but i was given the first mythic forge that dropped in farm at least

[wispy crystal]

typical BM hunter breakdown lol

casually doing 11M dps in floodgate

[tribal blade]

hey PSA don't try doing a 44 with a group that has no vers

or else you're in for this kind of hell

[fallow delta]

Hey everyone, I just started playing Rogue and it’s been tough finding proper guides — unlike other classes. Seems like Assassination is the only one with decent coverage. Any suggestions for where a new Rogue should start ?

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

any of the above guides will do you well

and if you have questions about the specifics of the guide you can come back here

if you are looking for youtube guides

then shindigg i think did one for 11.1.5 which is relevant enough for current sub

but the written guides are always most up to date

[fallow delta]

Thanks, you’re a lifesaver! 🙏

[short radish]

no wukkas

[maiden oar]

i can vouch for shindigs video

its what helped me the most as a new player

only rotational differences this patch are with 4pc

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[short radish]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[fallow delta]

do you use tab targeting for spreading rupture ? Like when do you know it’s enough?

[short radish]

you rupture wheny oure not in dance

its enough if theyre going to live the duration of the rupture

[fossil forge]

Fresh ice cold monster + snus combo so chill morning

[limpid sage]

my 99 parse is 150k behind my friends ilvl 710 45 parse on bm hunter

(fractillus)

[vast tusk]

is there a way to stop messing up CDs in dungeons? If I have to dodge stuff its game over for my dps most of the time

[tribal blade]

i sometimes can't help myself

because people in /2 are so stupid it makes my head hurt

[last gate]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ttc1wMJGmNF3p6xZ?fight=14&type=damage-done

help please

my dmg low

[maiden oar]

is it actually that bad

theres no way

[glacial stirrup]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[maiden oar]

according to stats my 99 a week or 2 ago was between a 90 and a 95 for bm

so still grim but not that crazy...

[short radish]

idk top hunter log @99 for frac is 17% ahead of sub

its just behind

[maiden oar]

it is

but no way a 99 on sub is a 45 on hunter

id cry in real life if that was true

[limpid sage]

ok it's actually a 98.6 now, but my friends 45 is 150k ahead of it

and that was yesterday

[maiden oar]

what the

[limpid sage]

[maiden oar]

oh wtf

[limpid sage]

wait maybe I'm dumb

maybe fractillus is from 11.2

[maiden oar]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/b2RjrAcygMzmh4p3?fight=5&type=damage-done

i was comparing to this

yea maybe 11.2

[limpid sage]

ah ye it is

crazy how 6.4 mil dps is required for a 99 on fractillus now

[maiden oar]

hehe

yea turbo boost is crazy

[limpid sage]

we haven't recleared since turbo

:(

[maiden oar]

sad

we have 2 buyers on dimmy this week i dont know what im going to do with my cds

[limpid sage]

knowing our clears we'd prob get the most cursed kill timers imaginable though

[maiden oar]

incomprehensible puzzle i cannot guess

[maiden oar]

3% more next week should fix it

[limpid sage]

my buy is pretty obv

should prob have went boots first over araz

but I wanted to try it out

[maiden oar]

yeah

shoes goes crazy

but they simmed similarly for me

so it depends on if u wanna experiment with antenna on some bosses

[limpid sage]

araz only simmed equal to boots with perfect kill timer (5 min sim no variance)

[maiden oar]

oh ok i just run barebones droptimizer bc im a noob

idk how to do any of that

[limpid sage]

ya I just did droptimizer with "vary_combat_length=0" in the header field on expert mode

[maiden oar]

ah i see

[limpid sage]

also have to use it if you want to sim with bubbling wax

[maiden oar]

tbh maybe im an idiot for running antenna sometimes

but in my head it seems like its not the worst

[maiden oar]

oh....

my gear set is not wax optimized

surely this cant matter

[limpid sage]

these are the only two I have added

[maiden oar]

ic

[limpid sage]

bubbling wax will only pull slightly further away from mastery

but it's like 0.6% of your dmg anyway

[maiden oar]

oh ok

.6 is a good amt

ill look into it

ty

[limpid sage]

I should prob sim with algari mana oil actually

[maiden oar]

all my free stats are in vers rn so maybe it changes nothing

yeah i used the all consumable string

and i run 1x wax 1x oil

[limpid sage]

ya same

[maiden oar]

[last gate]

no one reviewing my log 💔

[karmic harbor]

try doing !log

[last gate]

tried 3 times idk my logs here always gets ignored

!log

[karmic harbor]

the tier is basically over so not many people around

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lone halo]

!bp

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[autumn sand]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[iron whale]

question: do you guys keep Shuriken Toss keybound on your action bar?
cause I do but I wonder if it's worth or not

[lofty quartz]

guys there's a macro for use trick on tank?

[plush roost]

Bros... its not fair

I have such an easy time on my rat dh in keys. 5 seconds off floodgate 20.

Nobody else wants to play dh so im forced to rollswap to do high keys

🙁

[final granite]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/best-weakauras-macros-addons there you can find some macros for targetting.

[final granite]

I'd say 99% of situations you never use it. Personally I have it there as last option of "doing dmg and generating cp" when due to mechs I can not go close to boss.

[narrow night]

its also good to help pull in dungeons with tricks

[final granite]

yeah, assumed only raid scenario, you're right about m+ scenarios.

[iron whale]

thing is I switched rogue in bfa after maining havoc dh for a whole xpac, and I was used to have throw glaive... so while leveling, shuriken toss replaced throw glaive but unlike aldrachi havoc's throw glaive, shuriken toss doesn't really do anything rotation wise for sub

at the same time, I feel like I'm missing a "ranged ability" without it

which doesn't make much sense but

[last gate]

its trash 🥸 but i use it sometimes to ninja pull when i have an animal instead of a tank 😂

since we have tot you can just throw a dagger and the whole agro is on tank

just cast a storm before they reach the group cause there is a chance that healer take agro before tank 🥸

im teaching how to grief lol

but yeah the shrunken toss is basically useless in rotation and its waste of energy in both sub and sin rogue

[fossil forge]

You can reset bosses with shuriken tos

Any dimmy slayers in th chat

Im getting flamed for holding cloak in p1 but there is nothing to cloak besides devour ?

+i think pressing feint is better

[short radish]

press it either first devour

or 2nd devour

[fossil forge]

I press it on the one we gate

[short radish]

ye same

[fossil forge]

And i just run

But i think its better to feint and gate

[short radish]

every rogue presses it there

[fossil forge]

Save cloak for when he blows you off platform

It should be up though no

If you use it on the devour

[short radish]

wym blows you off platform

[fossil forge]

When he starts blowing

[short radish]

?????

[fossil forge]

I just cloak and i hit the add

On platform men

[short radish]

in platform 2?

oh yeah

[fossil forge]

Platform 1

[short radish]

uhhh

you shouldnt need for platform 1

just feint

[fossil forge]

i like not getting pushed though

[short radish]

and hold w

get speed enchants

i dont even press sprint

[fossil forge]

I might need to get the speedy shoes

We are starting p3 prog on reset

Hopefully it dies before next damage buff or the timers are gonna be hella c

[fallow nimbus]

The timers are so scuffed for platforms

[fossil forge]

It works out perfectly rn

Everyone is holding cds on platform 2 besides 2 mages that blow up the add

[short radish]

just hold W

save sprint to send a message

even if i have a free cast

[fossil forge]

Way too much stuff on your screen gang

[short radish]

this is what john blizzard spoke out against

[fossil forge]

Can you jump off platform to drop shit on the floor and shadowstep on boss

I need to try it out

[soft kayak]

is there any way to macro my trinkets so they cycle 1st shadowblades = araz, 2nd = ritual? or is that not possible

[fossil forge]

worst case scenario you hit a tank

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short radish]

if you play the game correctly and dont have to do any cringe holding

it cycles through

[fossil forge]

i love damage holding !!!

brings back mugzee ptsd

[soft kayak]

ok ok ty

[vast tusk]

what's the passive that makes backstab generate more than 1 combo point?

[hazy breach]

Shadow techniques

It does a lot more than that, would recommend reading the "Shadowcraft" talent too

[vast tusk]

thanks

[crystal bone]

i got selected for orb duty for dimmy prog

rip my cd's

[fallow nimbus]

Wouldn't be a problem if p1 hitbox wasn't so ass

[lost karma]

I'm recently doing sub keys, on higher keys are you guys funneling during cds at all instead of bp

[hazy breach]

It doesnt particularly matter

Very little difference in prio/overall either way

[lilac stag]

Kinda hard to funnel on an anti-funnel spec. Play to what the spec is good at.

[fast flax]

I’m guessing u meant evis prio target instead of bp then yes

Depends also on comp

But standard answer is yes

[bright elk]

theres also premed that is active when you stealth or enter dance that makes it generate full cp

[upbeat garden]

Bruh I have some keys on sub sometimes where I never have energy and others where I get all the procs and the spec feels so smooth I'm Soo sad

[last gate]

why my logs sometimes not get saved?

[lilac stag]

More noticeable in ST than AoE.

just run vigor over cb in keys and you’ll never care about it

[vagrant sinew]

@final wasp I think this xaethron guy isnt familiar with the concept of ban evasion

[final wasp]

!ban @jaunty heath o7

[tepid trellis]

swear ryler is like a hawk i did not even recognise the name

[bleak night]

Lmao that goes hard

Just add a 2

Ez

[lost karma]

We are running dh and DK with sham healer

I was looking at 19 eco log even tho I was doing most dps on sentinals I probably trolled? Using BP over evis during cds

But the pull is big

So I don't know

[hearty orbit]

hi, anyone can tell me if its worth going to 7 Combo points if i'm at 6? i like to run Cold blood instead of thistle

[tepid trellis]

finish on 6+

[hearty orbit]

ok thanks

you made the guide right?

https://www.method.gg/guides/subtlety-rogue

[tepid trellis]

yes

[hearty orbit]

Nice, I like it 🙂 cheers

[tepid trellis]

glad to hear it

[hearty orbit]

In your rotation guide you say (During Shadow Dance use Backstab as the first builder to consume Premeditation after that just build with Shadowstrike). But doesn't premeditation also get activated with shadowstrike, so why bother? i might have a lot of questions lol

[vale pine]

you get a stack of danse macabre

so all your abilities after backstab do more damage

the diffrence is small but it is a net positive to do the backstab

[hearty orbit]

ohh thanks

[vale pine]

i can go a bit more into details why this is so

basically builder damage is not that high

so shadowstrike does not contribute hightly to your overall

this will change in midnight, so optimizations like this will just die out

and the combo point gain is the same

because premeditation gives you "full combo points", so it is irrelevant that backstab would technically generate less

also, you don't start dance with backstab every time

you can shadow dance on finishing combo points too, which would then lead to a sequence like
secret-backstab-evis-...

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

if you want, you can use this macro, so you don't need an extra key for backstab

simply pressing the shadow dance button during dance will use backstab

[night sparrow]

Dance+symb > 2nd Coup > backstab > Sectec gang 💪

[hearty orbit]

i'm using cold blood

[vale pine]

the impact is 0.3% iirc, which means, if you are completely new to subtlety, might be better to just not do it innitially

[hearty orbit]

between cold blood and thistle?

[vale pine]

cold blood is ideally used on your 2nd secret technique during 90 sec cooldowns (flagellation/blades)

for mythic+ or raid?

[hearty orbit]

mythic

[vale pine]

free choice

both is good, cold blood marginal better single target, tea marginal better aoe

but its so low, you can decide

[hearty orbit]

okay i see

[vale pine]

tea might be easier to play

because you can just macro it to shadow dance

and forget it exists ^^

while secret technique requires more planing

[hearty orbit]

hmm i heard its best on secret technique but i guess thats not ture then

true*

i got it macrod to it

[vale pine]

you will use secret technique during dance

so binding it to dance will make that happen naturally

[hearty orbit]

aight

thanks so much

[vale pine]

no problem, and if you have more questions just ask ^^

[hearty orbit]

and always upkeep rupture outside shadow dance?

[vale pine]

yes

its basically like this

if you start a pull

the tank usually gathers mobs

you can during that time spread a few ruptures

then you go into cooldowns once the pack is somewhat grouped

and maintain/spread ruptures outside of cooldowns if mobs survive for a bit

[hearty orbit]

gotcha!

[vale pine]

just to be clear

if there are a lot of small adds that die fast

its not worth to bother using rupture on more than the main target

[hearty orbit]

yeah true

[fleet acorn]

Anyone knows Whats the best allround embelishment ? I’m using focuse Lens atm for mythic progreession and m+ but it literally sucks

Saw people play this nerubish + life dmg thing

[vale pine]

2x lense

but embellishments this xpac are kinda weak/lame

they all scale extremely poorly or not at all with item level

so the benefit is super low

which also means, you can kinda play whatever and don't rly lose damage

[fleet acorn]

Its 0.4% dmg in whole dungeon or boss pulls sometimes its Not Even proccing xd

[vale pine]

so:
ascendence + empowerment -> great
2x lense -> perfect
dust/dawn -> also fine

none of these are bad/wrong

[warm marlin]

A lot of subs played ascendance/writhing patch for prog

It simmed equal to slightly ahead on longer fights, also has aoe value that lens doesn’t have, which is half the reason you bring sub

It’s pretty bad in m+ though doesn’t have time to ramp generally

But NK/dimmy where you have it full ramped already by the time you get to the important parts ascendance pretty good

[alpine wraith]

in m+ it is fine as long as you dont drop combat for long

but usually double dawn is better for it

but also LUL embellish

[shrewd lantern]

double lens is a whole 5k more dps on patchwerk

[warm marlin]

Ascendance was a gain for me on 5min when I initially simmed it

That was a while ago tho

[shrewd lantern]

What are you playing now even

[warm marlin]

Duskthread my healers are goats

[shrewd lantern]

that sims noticeably worse for me on st

[warm marlin]

What uptime

I’m prob gonna swap to lens for st and dusk for aoe soon, I just don’t have sparks for 3 separate embellishment sets

[shrewd lantern]

whatever default is

[fast flax]

Ok so on my 19 my cds lined perfectly so I could burst the sentinel after the shied its down when it matters

So if u swapping btwen bp and evis I wouldn’t be to concern

If u doing 19s as well u must know what it’s better for the key

If go trough and “x” pack is more important than ur overall damage then y

[hazy breach]

BP vs Evis is around 5-7% more prio VS 5-7% more aoe

[lilac stag]

Duskthread on DK interesting

[warm marlin]

Dawnthread on that thing

[lilac stag]

what are you doing reclears on?

[warm marlin]

I only main raid on rogue

Dk is 6/8 from alt runs tho

[lilac stag]

I’m hoping we get king down tonight. Finally getting through p1 consistently. Healer got yoinked by a hof guild so yay for someone new learning.

[warm marlin]

The p1 NK grind

[lilac stag]

with my vision issues my heart rate spikes on the 3 set every damn time.

[maiden oar]

i wonder what i buy w the dinar

[fossil forge]

https://tenor.com/view/jordans-nike-vine-gif-3956593

you alrdy know

[maiden oar]

i can get random m+ trinkets

i have everything from raid i thik

i see some people on wcl use lily but idk how good it is

[warm marlin]

kill time maxxing

[fossil forge]

Boots r the only ting im missing

[warm marlin]

7th socket in a row

buyers taking plexus ring every week

surely it will be in vault someday

[lost karma]

Ye for sure I'm playing both sub and outlaw so I'm still trying to feel what to use. I for sure think I'm trolling not evis-ing more during prio targetting

[maiden oar]

3:20-3:45?

not exact rang ejust rough estimate

well i see one guy just running it on dimmy maybe that guy is a genius who knows somehting i dont

[warm marlin]

parse loves his lily

[maiden oar]

what does he know

[warm marlin]

approximately yes

[halcyon pendant]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[maiden oar]

ah ok

thank u

[warm marlin]

the breakpoint at which holding for forge would grief your 3:30 flag

[maiden oar]

yeah i figured

i just kinda have been sending like that with forge anyway if i dont know for certain

[warm marlin]

but still long enough that you cant just flag twice with forge

[maiden oar]

and it hasnt been awful on fract

but i did get smoked by a lily user which had me wondering

dinar spent

[warm marlin]

gambled wrong on kill time (should have played forge), didnt press maghar on pull because I am stupid, highrolled unseens so blasted

[maiden oar]

hehe

yeah i just gambled and lost once

with 2min forge on fract

so now im never doing it again

its too scary

well with 15% its gone for good probably

id rather lose prism stacks than an entire flag im a coward

[chrome gull]

dumb question maybe? First night of mythic dimensius prog. videos I watched in p1 the rogue was shadow stepping and it wasnt taking him to the middle of the platform but when i do it it is. am i missing something

[warm marlin]

step a teammate

[chrome gull]

mmm tru

[ornate heron]

alway step dks

[chrome gull]

why dk

[ornate heron]

they have deaths advance so they are unaffected by any kind of knock mechanic

they just ignore them

so you know they will always be in a safe place

[chrome gull]

ohh true

[ornate heron]

so you can just macro you step to your guilds dk

unless its the tank

[chrome gull]

yea just changed it

[ornate heron]

you probably dont want to step the tank

you could get killed

[chrome gull]

yea we have 2x dps so we good

[warm marlin]

i need a lobotomy pronto

i cannot press maghar for the life of me

[charred kestrel]

What if your DKs are assigned to the other side of the platform

[sturdy moat]

What weapon enchants would yall use for dual spec sub and sin?

Is radiant power fine for sub ?

[mental shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rancid crow]

is this rogue campaign quest just broken until we get a portal to exodar in remix? 😭

[tribal blade]

hey question

who figured out the prism+forge tech

was it the sub rogue channel TCs

because our hunter just tried explaining it to me like i didn't know about it

i'm just curious who figured it out first

[warm marlin]

you mean just pressing forge prism forge prism as a 90?

[tribal blade]

yes

[warm marlin]

was discussed well before patch launched in sub tc

[tribal blade]

haha nice

[warm marlin]

one of our dks also told me about this crazy new thing where you use forge and prism alternating this week

i wouldnt be surprised if rogue tcs are just way ahead of the curve there

[tribal blade]

lol trueee

i honestly found it hilarious being told about it like it's a new thing haha

and then now my guild is memeing me because i said sub rogues figured it out ages ago

[lilac stag]

they should meme you. Literally no one looks at anything rogue does

hell I don’t think assa players figured it out until a few weeks ago

[hazy breach]

They did, its just not good