subtlety

[tribal blade]

TRUE my favorite combo

[alpine wraith]

the duo of i cant believe we just did this pull

[cedar laurel]

But then the Pala flops over randomly 🫠

[tribal blade]

yeah sad thing about ppal

[alpine wraith]

palas in title key are made diff

they know when to run like little bitches

[cedar laurel]

Very few but 100%

[tribal blade]

they'll always be my favorite tank to run with

i played with a really good one last season, and i was able to play so much better knowing he would help hard carry a lot of stuff

[prisma escarp]

Good morning! Does anyone know of some high level Sub rogue coaches? I like Metfy website but didnt see any there.

[soft summit]

Casualaddict has a lot of YouTube videos of high level keys. Then go over to Warcraftlogs and check out the breakdown of his runs. By seeing what abilities he uses and when it really can help teach you. For example what abilities he uses during shadow dance windows, or what he’s doing as the tank gathers large packs of mobs.

If you look at the date of the YouTube video you can often find the exact run in the logs

[prisma escarp]

Thank you apprecaite it!

[vale pine]

a good way to learn is also to ask ^^

[steel zinc]

I pushed the first like 3 weeks to resi 17 and then just stopped. Long term I dont enjoy the appeal. I applaud everyone who has the endurance to get title.

[scenic plover]

if my cds arent ready in dimmy p3 amp phase, should i just send a sectech and delay flag?

[burnt abyss]

That's actually great advice...didn't think to match his videos for a visual of log performance. Thanks

[swift tinsel]

hes usually good about answering questions on his stream too

[ancient leaf]

guys when im bursting with blades and flag i feel like sometimes the combo points fill up after using the first coup but kinda very late at the end of the animation and not immediately is that normal? does it always happen? how can i track it

[alpine wraith]

coup can refill on any of the 3 hits

so as late as 1.2

[ancient leaf]

is there any talent or smth where i can read that?

[alpine wraith]

shadowcraft does the refills but coup itself is weird like that

it is like 3 evis

[ancient leaf]

hm okay

[tepid trellis]

id just get into a habit of waiting out coup casts the latest the refund happens is around 0,9sec after the cast of coup leaves you with like 0.3 sec of making a choice on what to press

[wheat cloak]

I have a WA that tracks when I have 5+ shadow techniques so I know to look to see if i get a proc and get the combo points

[jaunty heath]

I never did get those boots

[scenic plover]

@vale pine if my cds arent ready in dimmy p3 amp phase, should i just send a sectech and delay flag?

[vale pine]

you ideally have your cooldowns ready in the damage amp phase

[scenic plover]

ok but when we push before the wind in plattform 2 for example it would be like 10-15s

[vale pine]

timings are shit rn iirc

[scenic plover]

wouldnt the double dam on sectech be worth a delayed flag then? it feels so weird to just sit there and wait out the damage amp

[crystal bone]

if ur pushing too fast on platform 2, maybe u hold flag and only send 2 dances there

flag on an amp is way too important

[warm marlin]

do you not have enough charges to dance -> flag double dance

it really depends on your guild's damage but i barely got my third flag in p3 while having it up the second the amp started a month ago

[scenic plover]

this was me landing in a bad timing push

[warm marlin]

ye you can dance into flag double dance there

shouldn't have to delay flag

[scenic plover]

so i would dance sectech -> flag dance sectech

would i still do a rupture after flag?

[warm marlin]

rupture first global here, not sure if it would be low enough duration to refresh with flag

prob would idk

honestly if you know for sure you'll be killing before third flag you could forge this dance then hold flag for like 5s to wait for trinket icd assuming your prism is stacked

[scenic plover]

prism is on 6 there

[azure mauve]

you either use cds on platform 2

or amp

even with autumn aint no shot platform lasts close to 1:30

[warm marlin]

prog is still holding dps for winds on pargoth

[azure mauve]

really how long are they waiting?

[upbeat garden]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[warm marlin]

idk his initial question was for when they push right before winds

was watching some guild prog a few days ago and it was quite a bit of holding

[tulip folio]

guys can some 5 head expalin me in easy way to understand whats differance bettween rotten and tea build how it plays differant

what changes in rotation

[hazy breach]

Nothing

[tulip folio]

anyone got wa sound that plays when u get targeted by spell

[alpine wraith]

someone made one for m+

[steel zinc]

wow on console

kekw

[scenic plover]

it does fit with wind push more or less, if i didnt use cds on pargoth the raid would have to find 350mio damage somewhere

[thorny ridge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[charred kestrel]

Maybe from the 3 dps below tank?

[scenic plover]

no

[tulip folio]

and when do i use tea

just on low energy or should i pair it with something

[swift tinsel]

macro to dance

dont worry about playing around the auto-consumption thing with energy

[tulip folio]

thanks alot

[swift tinsel]

sure thing!

[tulip folio]

so just make sure

it plays same as rotten build and i should not worry about tea just macro to shadowdance

[tulip folio]

?

[swift tinsel]

yep

no rotational changes, you just vibe

[tulip folio]

love it

[shrewd lantern]

im still a tea hater

[clever delta]

just killed dimmy for first time

[last gate]

Now we know why most of our buttons gone

[clever delta]

i guees if i cant have cds ready when i land on first platform i need to hold second flag in p1, what do you think @warm marlin

[last gate]

:3

[clever delta]

we r holding on platfroms

[warm marlin]

You can send flag -> cb sectec as the adds spawn

Hmm holding on platforms

Yes maybe just hold the p1

[clever delta]

yeah but than cds are late for second plfatorm and cds are late for amp in p3

[warm marlin]

Why not hold p1 if you’re holding plats tho

[clever delta]

we are

but its like kinda gamba if we hold enough or not

i lost gamba on kill and was late

[warm marlin]

The mostly st p1 flag is def the one to drop over artoshion if you’re holding platforms

[lofty marsh]

random question, but does anyone lower their spell que window? I have mine set to 140 from when I played a caster, just wondering if its something rogues have an opinion on

[clever delta]

yeah i will just drop it

most of pulls i was late with flag

[warm marlin]

no autumn I presume

[clever delta]

ye

i asked about it but i think did not happen

wont push it

i may play assa aswell 😄

[warm marlin]

can turbo gamba there

High rolla insane 1min cds

[warm marlin]

140 is crazy for casters

I play 250 casters 200 rogue

[lofty marsh]

Really? Ive always played ping plus 100 for shadow and mage

[warm marlin]

those are the only 2 I’ve played and sending an incorrect global doesn’t usually hurt as much as delaying globals a lot (maybe spellqueing a barrage without charge replenish is bad)

whereas rogue usually sending a bad global is bad

[lofty marsh]

makes sense.... ill have to adjust and see how it feel.... thanks

[scenic plover]

does shadowstrike auto target?

[keen trellis]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen trellis]

!defensive

Anyone knows that command which shows which defensives work against which ability?
Edit: nvm got it

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[forest moss]

On nexus king, how are people getting their second flag at 1:22?

use it during pull?

timer*

[scenic plover]

holy pala blessing of autumn

[left ledge]

tbf you could already play wow on the deck

[last gate]

oh lol

[left ledge]

yeah, my tank last expac raided mythic once on the deck

[rigid perch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[solar kestrel]

hey, is there a weak aura, note, or something that helps with learning cd allignment? like some reminders, something

i'd love to learn sub but there is a lot to unwrap obviously ^^

[dense mountain]

MRT (Method Raid Tools) has a reminder section that you can setup your own personal reminders in there

combine that with the website lorrgs you should be able to plan yourself how you want to use CD's

[solar kestrel]

never actually thought about that but is there an option to use mrt on dungeons?

[dense mountain]

yes but its not really used very much besides some of the highest keys possible

[solar kestrel]

i know obviously m+ are very dynamic and so on which kinda condrstics the idea

[dense mountain]

i would not reccomend mrt for dungeons if your just learning

[solar kestrel]

well, guess i will have to write my own aura then

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah mrt seems non practical when you dont know your tank

You send 2 of everything during your sb flag set

then just kind of send when it makes sense without delaying sb flag sequence

congrats thats the spec

[solar kestrel]

how good is sub prio target now?

never really seen one when i pushed on main

so cant tell

[slate lantern]

prob easier just to practice than make an aura telling you when to press stuff lol

[solar kestrel]

not really an aura that says when to press what

i made an aura for pres evoker that helps with ramp, basically telling me to save mentioned cds x seconds before sending all in

;P

but i see your point

[chrome palm]

Its not good enough to carry prio damage like arcane or havoc but certainly strong enough that it matters which target you’re hitting

[solar kestrel]

do i want to use eviscerate on prio when a lot of targets to cleave with nimble or do i want to use powder with secret technique on prio

i.e. architect on floodgate

or shredder

[chrome palm]

Eviscerate is a very small amount of your prio damage on a single target, the main reason to use eviscerate instead of black powder on a prio target is if you want to do less damage to the other mobs, if you have a funnel spec in the group

[solar kestrel]

ahh so like crocodiles before 1st boss

[chrome palm]

Yeah that’s a good example

[solar kestrel]

thank you, that's very helpful. probably won't push to a point where that matters on a second character cause its exhausting but its a good knowledge to have

[tribal blade]

that's a great way to put it

it really does take incredible endurance if you're pugging

[solar kestrel]

i pugged to 3770 and im mentally drained

like completely drained, its not worth the effort imo

especially since the last week of season usually has a lot of high key buyers that result in the 0.1 being pushed further

and the whole "resi note" at 19+ doesnt help as well

[serene notch]

That’s really impressive man

I think sometimes everyone gets so hyperbolic about key pushing and how easy it is.

[solar kestrel]

pugging it was the most mentally draining thing i’ve ever experienced in video games. i swear, and it happened so that my main is meta this season so you’d think that would be easier. hell no

[ashen stream]

mythic plus is general is so intense

[serene notch]

I feel that, same for me. I do think though pushing so far and so high in a game like this makes you realize a lot about yourself.

The best players just play the most, and they fail more keys then others attempt.

[random hare]

Not alot of people can do the highest keys even if the attempt them as much

[random hare]

Lots of players with giga skill issues

[crystal atlas]

Question for yall what is the addon for the dungeon portals on the game menu

[random hare]

For r1 key kind of keys that is

So like at that kind of key level its more about progressing it

Just like how you prog a mythic boss

In pugs u wont time a key because the players u bring are just random and say 3/5 of them progged a 18

The 2 other players will deplete that key

[serene notch]

Pugging in that range seems so diabolical, what’s the avg clear rate 1/25 maybe 1/30 ?

How many at bats can you even get invited to in a session?

[random hare]

U cant pug r1 keys

U can pug -2 or -3 not sure what ppl play in pugs nowadays

Didnt push this season

Ok we kinda pugged r1 keys but

It was a group of players

[serene notch]

R1 is 21? So based I. Your experience tops out at 18-19?

[random hare]

Well i did r1 world keys

[serene notch]

I imaging the pool of r1 pug keys is the same 12 dudes?

[random hare]

First team to get resil 20 last season

On eu

[random hare]

12?

Ah

Eh i mean

[serene notch]

Meaning it’s such a small pool a people

[random hare]

Alot of players play and skip few seasons

Ye its small

[serene notch]

All names you atleast recognize?

[random hare]

Yea 99% i do

I’d say 100% honestly

All names are easily recognizable

[serene notch]

Yea that makes sense to me

[random hare]

Only people u cant really recognize in r1 keys are the chinese guys

Since they buy accounts and constantly get banned

So they make new accounts etc

Lots of shady stuff there

Brb sleep

[indigo girder]

Hi everyone, first of all, please excuse my English.

I wanted to know if a rogue sub is considered a funnel?

Does he have the skill to funnel?

[warm marlin]

no, almost no funnel. very small amounts outside of cooldowns and none in cooldowns where all of your damage happens anyway

[indigo girder]

ok

[short radish]

Funnel was a feature that sub rogue had that was largly killed off in battle for azeroth after the fight on Zul

It somewhat still had it during shadowlands but it was a shadow (pun intended) of its former self

If anyone is telling you that you should be "funneling" damage as a sub rogue, tell them their information is outdated

[indigo girder]

thx bro

u god

[short radish]

[vagrant fulcrum]

People mistake having high prio dmg in cds as funnel

Actually too funny

[short radish]

its because of people like 🐀 👃 who still parrot this

[ivory vigil]

who is ratnose?

[warm marlin]

ppl just not understanding rogue and having beliefs from 8 years ago

[wild vine]

dr atnos

ig

[plush roost]

Sub is antifunnel

You kill all the smallies before your dh can get 3 glaives

XD

When i sit at the edge of halkias hitbox opposite the groundskeepers and nimble still hits despairge

[woeful wren]

Ig if deathstalker was useable we could have some funnel?

[azure thicket]

really comes down to the tank getting a large enough pack this late in the season for sub to shine

also yaey akama made my realm number not orange

[plush roost]

Meh pack size doesnt matter u just push flag on cd

No holding or thought involved with sub

In keys*

[azure thicket]

true..sent a 18 stack full cd into that architect going into demolition duo

just to explode them

[plush roost]

Arch into demo? People skipping shredders nowadays?

Not in NA lmao

[azure thicket]

1st architect at the bottom of the stairs

does eu play double?

we only get 1 and get count around swampface i think

no no architect into demo just the 1

then shredder then boss

done a few shredder pulls into that boss but idk it's just a funny i did cause that architect's nailgun is mean

[plush roost]

Im na, NA meta is: big pull single shredder > architech double zurveyor by pool > arch with divers and crabs > shredders > boss

So im confused how u 18 stack arch to not have it on boss since u dont prism double shredder

[azure thicket]

the argument i heard was you lose a lot of time/cd timings on that scaffolding

it's usually around 8 during shredder and close to 15 when full cd's come back up

so you only get 1 architect cause there's better time saves after

[plush roost]

Hmm what key level are u doing may i ask?

That may move timings

[azure thicket]

just a 15

[plush roost]

Ah ya that makes more sense

[azure thicket]

yeah im sure the timings move the higher you go

but architect explode

[plush roost]

Ye u have flag basically for every pack in 20s

[azure thicket]

hate that npc

[plush roost]

Weve been considering moving cds around for prisms tho

Such as skipping the first architec double surveyor till later

And sending 9 on that scaffold, dk 18 the double shred and then rogue 18 the boss

Idk in high keys mama needs prisms to be alternated i thinm

Fdk 18 first set, rogue 18 second fdk 18 third, boss dead

[azure thicket]

yeah sending at 9 stacks feels weird cause some packs are just dead anyway with regular cds

i think gear right now means most people can bank a 17 if they know what they're doing but at 20 it's just a long string of dps checks

[limpid sage]

just to be 100% sure: Find Weakness dmg applies after target scaling right?

[tribal blade]

i've noticed this being kind of a problem

and there's literally nothing you can do to prevent it besides positioning which is not possible in most cases

waiting for blizz to give us back combo

[wild vine]

wish it would happen but realz kinda burried that dream

[tribal blade]

yeah he did, i still hold out hope they all come to their senses

[wild vine]

the highest sub groups dont play with a dh anyways as far as ive seen

its not as bad for fdk and hunter to not have much funnel afaik?

[tribal blade]

you're quite likely to play with dhs if you pug

i'm honestly not sure how fdk works, i heard they just have prio but i'm not sure

hunter has funnel now apparently yeah

[wild vine]

our bm never mentioned anything about funnel

only ever said he definitely has prio

and his ST is bonkers sometimes

[limpid sage]

what's that

[tribal blade]

was originally 10%

sub was the OG funnel spec

and then they took it away

[limpid sage]

ahhh

[tribal blade]

which is why it's been so confusing to watch all these other specs get crazy funnel and we don't get ours back

including sin

although i'm now thinking i'm not sure if combo could work in that form with how sub plays now

[limpid sage]

maybe if shadowstrike granted it as well

but then it's just a straight st buff and not funnel

[short radish]

crazy as well that destro is allowed their niche of 2target

[tribal blade]

right?

[short radish]

like any 2 target fight (theres one basically every tier)

oh look there's the warlock

[carmine portal]

Depending on how Sub ends up, I may be swapping to afflic next xpac

[short radish]

understandable have a nice day

[carmine portal]

Vibe wise it's winning and that's what matters most to me

AND im getting griefed my duo wants to swap to rogue

😡

double sub keys midnight omega META!?

[short radish]

who knows

perhaps we'll be tuned omega high

but then again we had a really good tier this tier

so unlikely

[carmine portal]

I hope so, current sub is the most fun I've had playing WoW since Nighthold mistweaver

[short radish]

same

its pretty common consensus that this is the best iteration of sub theyve done in ages

[azure thicket]

i think one of the spec rank videos from the start of season went on camera and said sub funnel

is why everyone including myself is saying sub funnel ?_?

[short radish]

all they needed to do was

Combine flag + blades
Combine dance + symbols
Sectech only castable in dance

[azure thicket]

we're prio?

[short radish]

we're cleave/aoe

we are not funnel

any instance of funnel was kill in the start of TWW

[carmine portal]

my gf can't understand my piano hands when I'm going into flag

so this would be nice

I think alongside some combining of spells I would love to see a different "version" of sectech. Maybe a node where we can decide between an AOE spender and a buffed ST spender idk

[azure thicket]

weird b ut im pretty sure shuriken storm has less range than fan of knives

[ivory vigil]

for me as a casual shadow techniques causes the most headaches when playing sub, it's hard to keep track of when you get enough combo points for 2 finishers in a row, and it throws me out of rhythm

[azure thicket]

you get more shadow technique generation in some of your cooldowns

[carmine portal]

I think once you have a way to track the buff (weakaura) with a sound/visual confirmation of the refund I love it

But I think I'm one of the few who does like the refund mechanic

Idk where I read it but i think someone mentioned in Midnight we're getting more Visual Feedback for spells and stuff which will be great

[azure thicket]

i like that it scatches the same niche as outlaw in terms of gameplay loop

[carmine portal]

I mean it just always feel good to get that nice string of refunds right at the start of a pull or a DMG amp

Dopamine

[azure thicket]

for real something similar to the curseblade cudgel's cantrip for sub would be dummy strong

[carmine portal]

It has been said 1000 times but

Imo change shuriken storm to be Kyvezas Nexus Daggers

(make it a solid cone rather than her 3-point spike)

[limpid sage]

that'd be cool af

[tribal blade]

at least for once i can sit here and say

i hope the changes we WILL be getting will be cool

i can't remember the last time we could say that in the sub channel

[carmine portal]

I'm not trying to DOOM, I really do hope the changes work out and even if it doesn't make us the best, it'd be nice to have some new and different stuff to play with

[alpine wraith]

well first changes seemed weird second ones have more of a direction

and now we wait

for blizz to take their 2 vacations

hope they rest and cook

[short radish]

we say that all the time

but its always just wishful thinking

[tribal blade]

i hope they prove me wrong

[short radish]

same

[alpine wraith]

any day now

[short radish]

kyveza animations are lying right there

[warm goblet]

I also love it, but the replicating shadow bug that persisted for so long, and now the coup delay can be frustrating

but the optimization of Unseen Blade procs is super fun imo

[plush roost]

Problem is i think every push key will want havoc, ele, or mage, which all achieve the same goal of priority damage through funnel. Playing sub with phys comp is fine as youve become season 2 feral's job of burst priority damage but it doesnt feel enough. Feral also feels bad rn and i think youd rather play rdruid for mark. Hunter is good but then youre playing sub wuthout skyfury and at that poiny why not just play havoc

Its actually become kindof annoying because all of the high m+ scene in na just doesnt want me to play my rogue and ask "is scarrend ready yet?"

[crystal bone]

ive got a fury warr ive been gearing, currently only 710

he's kinda fun i guess

but ultimately not my rogue so how much fun am i really having, not much lol

no other class really interests me like rogue does tbh, just playing other games outside of raid logging now

[tribal blade]

it was really feelsbad when shindigg's MDI group were having a rough time pushing up keys while he was playing sub

because him on havoc just made keys so much faster

[hazy breach]

Its kinda wild to me that they just abandon m+ balancing almost every season

[wild vine]

ye its why I just started gearing my brewmaster, tank is kinda fine as long as you are brew, warr or pala

[tribal blade]

someone i know is asking me a sub question, does he mean finality

i'm trying to decipher this

[tribal blade]

dw it'll come eventually when the season is almost over smile

[fleet wharf]

i'd guess weaponmaster?

[tribal blade]

i was thinking that too but you don't choose between those 2 talents

[fleet wharf]

surely weaponmaster edges out tfd

kek

but yea, prolly finality, ig. why not just ask the guy?

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm asking haha

he's brazilian so english is his 2nd language

[mental shore]

🥱

[tribal blade]

met him during DF pushing keys, biggest character i've ever met

[tribal blade]

HAHA

and here he is

[mental shore]

I mean finality

[tribal blade]

cool cool

whenever people play tea they're using finality yeah

and then the people who choose to play cold blood run rotten

in general

[alpine wraith]

sub talents are quite low impact in that regards

[stoic spire]

Stupid set of questions... During shadow blades on aoe we only press shadowstrike as builder(apart from first one in every dance which should be backstab) to farm escalating blade stacks and don't bother with shuriken storm, correct? What about dance without blades- is it the same? If that is the case do we only shuriken outside of cooldowns? Last one- should I always press black powder with 4+ targets or there is any use case for eviscerate in aoe?

[alpine wraith]

you get more dps by critting a whole coup

[mental shore]

🫡

[alpine wraith]

than talenting cb or tea

you can storm once in between coups if you have blades or at least 4 targets

[tribal blade]

yeah you can swap out finality or rotten and it won't make a big difference

[alpine wraith]

but only storm once per dance

it is also fine to storm after sec tech if you already have like 6 or 7 sht

as it will coup coup anyway

and you save 1 unseen too

[stoic spire]

Yeah- that as well 😄 storm between coup not to munch unseen blades

[limpid sage]

You Evis over BP if you have a prio target

Above 8 targets I wouldn’t bother though

[stoic spire]

Last one- sometimes when about to dance I got coup ready, is it correct to do supercharged coup, supercharged sectec and regular coup or 2 supercharged coup and regular sectec?

[hazy breach]

Supercharging coup is completely irrelevant

Like its literally the same as supercharging eviscerate

So all you care about is supercharging sectech

[stoic spire]

got it! That is what I have been doing anyway but was wondering if coup is more dmg

[tulip gorge]

coup is pretty much an eviscerate but with more combo points

[jaunty heath]

I wish it all showed up as one hit

[stoic spire]

I wish it was available more often- love the audio on it 😄

[alpine wraith]

would make lots of problems disappear

same as sec tech

[limpid sage]

you can technically supercharge the 2nd coup, as it's 30% increased dmg

but besides that it's literally just evis cp scaling

(as Eleem mentioned)

[mental shore]

U can control that supercharge stuff?

[limpid sage]

ye I mean Symbols is what triggers it for your next 2 finishers

[last gate]

@vale pine hi i got a question my guild master looking at wow audit whishlist thingy to distribute the loots and as you said sim is showing araz + prism a dogshit choice for sub

any idea how much it changes my dps in %?

so i can talk it out with him

[vale pine]

prism + forge is very close to the bet simming trinket setup

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

it is within error range

antenna + prism is the default, antenna + forge on low kill times

the combination is also rly good on the last 2 fights of the raid

so unsure what your guild master looks for

[mental shore]

For Keys its Better on dmg this combo unless forge one?

I mean, only overall dmg

[brisk onyx]

prism + forge for keys

[wild vine]

some of the highest keys on sub still use antenna tho

just adds different things

[vale pine]

the combo is usually prefrered in keys because you can use the combination on bosses

[brisk onyx]

ye but double use is a general recommendation. If you are a very high keys player, of course you have your own understanding.

[plush roost]

Is cause we like the boss dam and antenna is more overall boss dam (9stack prism + antenna base agi is like forge every cast anyway)

And if u start a fight at 18 stacks (dawnbreaker first boss leads up to this, gigazap, half of streets bosses) your dps goes turbo

Pure st

[wild vine]

ye ik

think the only sub at the higher end I've seen using araz is lashga

[hazy breach]

8 stack prism is the same strength as forge even without counting the stats from the other trinket

[plush roost]

^ye pmuch

[hazy breach]

Although it is frustrating when you get 4 stacks of antenna when you cant dance

[brisk onyx]

[wild vine]

watch those ruptures tick

[last gate]

im using antenna prism tho :3

[vale pine]

oh i mean antenna + prism

my bad

[last gate]

ah

[vale pine]

updated the message

[last gate]

yea

so should i keep begging for araz? ;3

[fossil forge]

the kill times are hella scuffed atm

[last gate]

its 0.2

idk

[warm marlin]

assuming you're progging, araz will make a significant difference on the following bosses: nexus king, dimensius (assuming holding dps)

[last gate]

but it doesnt have anything with the damage increase phases

[last gate]

EXACTLY

[warm marlin]

on nexus king, it lets you forge the add platform without losing prism stacks for the amp

[last gate]

and we are going for nexus this week

[warm marlin]

you could also just 18 stack the add plat and have very few stacks for amp

[last gate]

wait we full cd the add?

[warm marlin]

yes

on prog i didnt have forge so i just sent no trinket on adds and it was fine

your group may need more titan damage than mine

[last gate]

yeah 100%

my group dps isnt that great

we have 3 Heavy pumper

and 4th one is me :3

[warm marlin]

on dimensius, it lets you do more p1 damage and more damage to the second platform

[last gate]

after that

we have some people doing tank dmg

[warm marlin]

beyond those specific use cases (and meme short farm kill times) forge isn't really much better than antenna if you already have it, so better going to someone else

but if you need nexus king add plat damage and/or dimensius p1/pargoth plat damage, forge very good on sub

and if you don't hold damage on dimensius its kinda weird

unclear what is better atm

[last gate]

hmmm

okay then

i willwait for this vault

if i get forge in vault

i play nexus as sub

else i just roll back to assa

[fossil forge]

doesnt assa outperform sub atp

[warm marlin]

you can still bring sub for what its good at (killing adds)

[fossil forge]

fax

[last gate]

both good tbh

[warm marlin]

assa does a lot more st

both are indeed good

[last gate]

i may progress with sub

but TBH

kings hunger phase

is soo fun with sin

[warm marlin]

at this point I would say play what you prefer

[last gate]

i played both specs

[warm marlin]

if you enjoy a damage amp more as sin than sub i think that shows where your heart lies

[last gate]

and im in a medum to good level

[plush roost]

On reclear i played antenna for shits n giggles and 18 stacked the platform.

Turns out this is considered unwise since wumbo has autumn

Halfway through the second dance the platform was joever uhhh oops

Also who sends 2 sub rogues and fdk on one platform. Parse rigging!!!!

[warm marlin]

i "accidentally" (it was actually accidental) autopiloted to my prog platform despite being in the other group, which just so happened to be far away from the 2 FDKs and instead near the boomie, mage, and other specs that don't do add damage

[clever delta]

idk how to really play last two bosses, nothing line up aynmore for me 😄

no autumn on top gg

and i feel like sin line up ever worse since it send later on pull

[vale pine]

ye, timings are fucked now with all the buffs

[alpine wraith]

dimensius is a bit krangled yes

[crystal bone]

we killed nexusking for the 1st time last weekend and timings were ok as sub

idk about the 3% buff today tho, prob fucked now

dragon will die too fast in the amp also

the kill time sucked but i had everything for the important moments

just sending on cd

[plush roost]

"Whoopsie daisies! Haha my bad guys!"

[warm marlin]

you just tell everyone to hit saladman earlier in p1

itll still end up dying in amp eventually

but you can let it live a lot longer by just not focusing it pre amp

[crystal bone]

yea true

[deep iron]

theyre all mythic, i have hero sin stained and i dont have mythic chest

mythic chest (tier set) is what i should choose?

[alpine wraith]

if you dont have mythic chest it is a big budget gear item yes

otherwise that neck is quite decent

[carmine portal]

Yeah myth chest is just better imo

Just got around to getting my cartel chips, what is even worth buying for sub? I can't/don't myth raid so

[warm marlin]

prism

even on heroic

[carmine portal]

alrdy got araz and prism hc

sadge

[warm marlin]

boots, myth pacemaker might be alright

[carmine portal]

yeah thinking about myth pacemaker

simming some stuff now

May aswell buy a wand

or a gun

rub my full 12's in my partners face

[alpine wraith]

you might be able to pug M araz by now

[wet echo]

M frac is easier, just buy a lockout

[livid hamlet]

!netherprism

thats not ilol

[tepid trellis]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[livid hamlet]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tight fjord]

i was also messing with a macro....

#showtooltip shadow dance
/castsequence reset=7 shadow dance, symbols of death, thistle tea, null
/use backstab

how bad is it

i dont think it's working the way i wanted

[ashen stream]

FYI, You can use 13/14 to avoid hard coding trinket names. Additionally, use [@player] for the occasional random reticule trinket. This can make the macro more robust for future seasons.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use [@player] 13
/use [@player] 14

[warm marlin]

the names are intentional to indicate proper order of use

[hazy breach]

And because otherwise people are gonna ask what they mean

Ie "what does /use 13 mean?"

[warm marlin]

split the castsequence line

/cast Shadow dance
/castsequence reset=5 thistle tea,null
/castsequence reset=2 symbols of death,null
/cast backstab

will probably work

as for how bad it is, depends on how you're using it

[limber folio]

you can hold DM for p3 amp, and just send 1 kingsbane

on p2.2

[clever delta]

dimmy or nexus 😄

[limpid sage]

Only way to give others a fair chance

[proper stone]

do we sim dung slice or hectic add i always forget

[warm depot]

dslice

[proper stone]

ty

so 730lily is simming higher then 717araz...this seem right/>?

[swift tinsel]

link sim?

[proper stone]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v3hoicZ6NH25ZkehuZHRSH

[shrewd lantern]

Might be the heroic mythic diff

[swift tinsel]

ye

that's my thought too bc its not far ahead

[shrewd lantern]

antenna sims higher for me anyway

than either

fuck double

[shrewd lantern]

could be worse could be that pug i saw

who was using a 730 soleah and 704 lily as sub

then replaced the soleah with a 717 araz

[swift tinsel]

oof

[shrewd lantern]

i watched this man win this roll

[proper stone]

ahhk, trusting sim then , just wanted to be sure - ty guys 😄

[shrewd lantern]

and replace the wrong trinket

ahahhahaa

idk double on use is overhyped

esp if you dont have double mythic

[swift tinsel]

I like it for raid

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

but for keys just using prism/passive is nice

[shrewd lantern]

I especially like it early prog

because it lets me pretend im good at the game

having an on use more

[shrewd lantern]

bro using double on use in pug keys

[swift tinsel]

I have double on-use macroed so theres less to think about but even then its kind aw/e

[shrewd lantern]

makes me wanna say shit that will get me chat banned

tanks just sitting there thumb in ass

taking afk breaks between packs

[swift tinsel]

ye I pretty much ran pug keys mostly after the first couple weeks and I feel that lol

[shrewd lantern]

or doing the tiny pull then chaining super late

[swift tinsel]

leashing one low mob is so annoying

[shrewd lantern]

if you gonna chain go big chungus

smh

not this scared shit

like i did half my crest keys with forge half with antenna

hated the forge keys lmfao

[swift tinsel]

I had prism+sigil for a hot couple of minutes, that felt...something lol

[shrewd lantern]

yeah sigil is aight too isnt it

[swift tinsel]

its okay, it definitely felt stronger on ptr

[shrewd lantern]

that guy replacing a 730 soleah

kills me

because that is actually really good of a passive

[swift tinsel]

idk I had a hero track one early on and it got replaced very quickly for me in sims

[shrewd lantern]

i mean i never had to compare since

my very first myth vault was pace

so my passive slot was set for a large amount of the first half

[swift tinsel]

I didn't sweat second trinket too much bc I knew I was going to cap out at hero prism

[shrewd lantern]

then i got antenna from vault

i pretty much went from hoc to prism this tier

so tbf i dont recall playing without it

[swift tinsel]

I think I got mine by week 3 or 4

[shrewd lantern]

somehow lootcouncil gave me it

on heroic too

then mythic

[swift tinsel]

legit saw zero hc prisms, one normal all season

[shrewd lantern]

we saw 2 hc prisms

[swift tinsel]

one heroic forge, two heroic antennae

[shrewd lantern]

weird thing is my dh since that char

really likes the delve on use

for some fking reason

my favorite part about it was it was capable of friendly fire, if you had no target selected

[iron whale]

@vale pine sorry for the ping.. question: what do you think of how the spec felt during Legion?
and why did they steer away from that? (I remember LOVING how Rupture was actually Nightblade (so damn thematic, loved the flavour so much)

[quartz prism]

I prefer Rupture because im old and its iconic. Also because the azerite traits required lame night blade inputs for pvp

But it was thematically a better fit

[tribal blade]

decent vault this week

+3 ilvls on crafted

[brisk onyx]

👍

[solemn sonnet]

whats allowing people to have blades at 1:25?

[tepid trellis]

blessing of autumn

[solemn sonnet]

ohh im dumb

[bright elk]

we just killed Nexus king, can anyone give me feedback on my log? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VzyJFh4xg921PDN6?fight=last&type=damage-done

I feel like I could be doing a lot better but idk what to fix

[maiden oar]

why is it saying the offhand i already have is an upgrade

do i just disregard this entirely

[short radish]

the secret technique (pun intended) is popping a rupture and essentially afking once you land after intermission is over

you press sectech so you have your UB procs

and then you symbols into autoattack/shuriken storm to charge up your SHT stack

and then you can go into the burn with 14sht + 2x UB

[frozen lichen]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[short radish]

you also get a 3rd dance in that window

[bright elk]

that sounds pretty sweet, hopefully i remember after we finish progging Dimmy lol

[short radish]

dont worry

you can use that tech on dimmy as well

on p2 platform

if youre holding

[bright elk]

do we need the autum cdr on dimmy too?

[short radish]

kinda yeah

it really helps

[bright elk]

kk time to get back into them dms

[warm depot]

i did it

im done

only 2 dinar pieces left

damn boots and forge

andim good to go

[rancid spade]

how do you use double onuse in m+ araz + netherprism? i was thinking of just using one netherprism and antenna

[warm depot]

same as raid

start with araz then nether

i think its easier to use nether + antenna in m+

but i hate orb gameplay

[short radish]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[rancid spade]

with that last macro does that use araz and then unyielding if araz is on cd?

[bleak night]

idk why whoever that was deleted the question

but you can macro bs to dance if you want

or macro it to the same key rather

[formal river]

i deleted my question because it was easy to search, haha- if anyone else sees the answer above, my question was something like "why not macro backstab with shadowdance"

[umbral topaz]

hmm for 4 weeks i've ONLY gotten loot from soul hunters in my vault, usually 2 myth slots
I've gotten 2-3 duplicates of everything, EXCEPT i havent gotten boots yet

am i cursed?

[short radish]

yeah try deleting your char and reclearing

[ivory vigil]

how does this work? you press once, start shadow dance+tea then immediately press it again for backstab?

[bleak night]

if you are in stealth/dance it uses backstab

and if you are not it uses dance

ye

i dont even actually play with tea but its there just in case

[ivory vigil]

can't you do the same by manualy adding just backstab into your stealth/dance bar?

to the same bind you have shadow dance outside of stealth/dance

[bleak night]

my dance bind isnt on that bar

[ivory vigil]

ah I see

[willow cliff]

why is cosmic hunt not so good? its sims higher than araz for me

[bleak night]

its very slightly better in st at the cost of doing literally nothing to any extra targets

araz and antenna just give raw stats instead of a damage proc so are actually useful in aoe

[alpine wraith]

the power of forge was around timings for last 2 bosses and maybe araz and loom

now everything is kinda messed up

[void ocean]

on Nexus King platforms we only single target Titan, and let the spill over kill the rest, right? or should we bp?

[idle echo]

’ve just checked some high-key logs for Sub Rogues, and I noticed they’re running Cold Blood instead of Thistle Tea, and some even take The Rotten instead of Finality — does that actually make sense?

[short radish]

yeah

but it doesnt matter

play what you want and find fun

[haughty rose]

forge is very good for soulbinder too

you can forge > prism > forge > prism with the last prism being 18 stacks right when all the adds come in the last phase

[alpine wraith]

bro soulbinder dies before prism can even be used at 3 mins

XD

on second adds

it is joever

[haughty rose]

not with pugs

at least in 7 mythic kills or so it never died before that. even after turbo boost

[idle echo]

In which keys i want to use Cblood instead of tea?

[haughty rose]

it doesnt matter on this fight since it's a free kill anyway but for logs its nice

[fallow nimbus]

The trick is to go full st with cleave if possible and skip all adds, play 2min full adds, boss dies

[maiden oar]

i go 1x on use in soulbinder with expected killtime before 4mins

idk if correct but i like having the biggest craziest 2min burst on all the adds w pot and prism and antenna

100% feelycrafted

[fossil forge]

Antenna and araz lowkey slaps on binders

[mint maple]

Is Dimmy harder than Nexus?

[void ocean]

dunno, we see Dimmy only from the waist up

[alpine wraith]

we only know surely he is not as hard as nexus and the dragon together tho

[mint maple]

Hahaha

I am just hoping is far easier

Nexus was a shit show

[opal mantle]

rly ? that means you dont press a trinket on 30s ?

[scenic plover]

its less rng, but more people fucking up jobs

and then people quitting raiding literally 1 night before we would have killed and now i am salty and might have to play unholy. (imaginary setting not related to real world)

[mint maple]

Well, I almost quit due to Nexus lol. I wanted at first to get a great log but the last two weeks I just wanted it to be over lol

[scenic plover]

maybe you can even tell where we recntly had to replace main raiders here

[fossil forge]

Only good If your kill time is fast

[brisk onyx]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[fallow loom]

hi, someone can link me a good wa to track je nether prism stack ?

[vale pine]

think you can quickly set one up using the templates

[short aurora]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[patent lichen]

Oh great sub enjoyers, I seek someone willing to sit down with me and log review for my st dps is absolute dog garbage and I can't figure out why. I'd post a thread but no one responds to those. I will compensate for time with in game goodies. Please slide in my DMs.

[void ocean]

Id still post log in a thread

[patent lichen]

Done

[oak grotto]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[wild hornet]

would you guys pick mythic antenna or forge in replacement of heroic lily? im progging saladbar atm

[tame terrace]

forge

[wild hornet]

is the ease of forge overshadowing antenna in prog

[tame terrace]

dont gotta htink about orbs if u just blast

a trinket every time u use ur cds is nice

[wild hornet]

yeah ill prob get forge

cba learning antenna this far in the season

[tame terrace]

i have an antenna, it isnt difficult. just feels weird with how this spec works
when u have nothing outside of cds anyways, not being able to have on demand amps feels weird

[tepid trellis]

@hazy breach i think hunter needs to die

and thats a short dmg amp

we killed the dragon

[alpine wraith]

just rng more noob

we need overcrit so we can crit on our crits

full gamba 120m sec tech

[hazy breach]

Ye good thing it got buffed by 6%

[tepid trellis]

well it was also nerfed few weeks ago

they need to slap bm with like a 15% nerf

[plain creek]

how does this guy cast flag at 1:24

[bleak night]

Blessing of autumn

Gives you a bit of cdr

[upper plinth]

do i reach all living mass when i target dimensius on mythic?

[tepid trellis]

you need to be standing next to them

to hit them with cleave

and target them with sectech for it to hit them

[oak grotto]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[oak grotto]

So wait I send Prism on 16 stacks outside of CD

With lily

[vale pine]

you use it during cooldowns

[fossil forge]

Lily Lily prism

No?

[oak grotto]

Ah I see, tyty

[vale pine]

you can assume you never want to use prism outside of cds

because all of your damage is during that time

[narrow night]

would you rather play antenna with tea or double on use with cold blood?

in higher keys

[vale pine]

probably double on use

tea/cold blood is whatever

pick your favorite

[narrow night]

atm i play the latter but i saw that people sometimes play with antenna or even tea with double on use so wanted to know if im to far behind in the meta

[steel zinc]

is that worth?

[tepid trellis]

well its more overall dmg

[steel zinc]

ok more pad inc

[fossil forge]

I swear someone was gaslighting me with this

so you should swap to stech the adds

[lilac stag]

Yes. They won’t hit if you target dimey

They’re out in Africa

[fossil forge]

any more useful info like this

for daddy dimmy

besides get blessing

also how many dinars are supposed to have this week

i have 2 for some reason?

[bleak night]

you should have 2 yeah

assuming you already spent the first 3

[tacit coral]

no sec techs on dimmy is hitting adds?

[golden totem]

[tacit coral]

💀

[lofty quartz]

https://it.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aAz1V9fwMKrtXWg2?fight=last&type=damage-done

can someone tell me what i do wrong?

i'm kolyana

i have done from loomi to fract

[tribal blade]

interesting, i've just been targeting dim and every time i cast sectec on him the living masses are debuffed with fazed

so i just assumed sectec is hitting them too

i need to double check

[tacit coral]

is that just a ton of damage we are missing out on?

well some of us

[hazy breach]

The phys part hits

Clones are not

[tribal blade]

AHH ok

that makes sense

[hazy breach]

The phys part is around you

The clones are around the target

[tribal blade]

jesus sectec is such a fucked spell

surely it gets reworked

[bleak night]

[wispy crystal]

how do i sim which stats are good for me any idea?

like i have a mix of crit/mast/vers --> how do i determine which ring stats to craft ?

[tribal blade]

use top gear and add the ring via this

[hazy breach]

You put all the non-haste options on the ring into topgear

And pick whatever shows up at the top

[tribal blade]

then you can use this option

[wispy crystal]

ahhhhhhh got it! thank you so much just what i needed.

[short radish]

stat weights

[wispy crystal]

thanks this is very helpful

[wispy crystal]

yes doing that now, didnt realize i had to click on the ring itself

interesting the 727 rings / neck are actually a downgrade from the 717

is it because the stats are evently distributed?

[hazy breach]

Looks like you didnt add sockets

[wispy crystal]

ahhh damn

do i have to select any option to add gems inside?

[hazy breach]

Same place where you change the stats

The +

[wispy crystal]

ok let me try to resim

grhhh figuring out stats is so annoying

and time consuming

especially for these crafted pieces

[fleet wharf]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[fleet wharf]

but I'd start with reading a guide first. You aren't using your CDs correctly. Too many to list, so go read it first and come back with questions

[graceful rock]

how many seconds does autum take off our CDs?

[short radish]

10

[willow fulcrum]

I don't get it. A build using dark brew and no shadowcraft sims higher in dungeonslice for me than any other build. I tried it and it feels clunky as hell, what gives lol

[plush roost]

Its a pure pad build that makes your aoe stronger at the cost of boss dam and priority damage

[wispy crystal]

if running with Ascension + Nerubian Writhing VS x2 Elemental focusing lens, is it a super minor difference?

cause i run assas and sub depending on boss fight

[short radish]

differences between embelishments are a rounding issue

[wispy crystal]

ah okay thank goodness then.

just didnt want it to be the difference in a 90% parse VS 80% parse lol

[short radish]

it will not

unless for some reason you are full stacking haste

the only major impact gear will have to your parse is ilvl

the things that will have more impact on your parse

are kill timings

eg someone killing at 3:30 will parse better than someone killing at 4:50

but also just press buttons or something

also also

[solar kestrel]

and the amount oftime you need to move from boss cause of mechanics rng lmao

[short radish]

i guess but the only fight i can think this is an issue on is dimensius

and then thats also largly an issue because of kill timings

[solar kestrel]

loomi can f you up with the line a bit

[short radish]

yeah maybe loomi but also just press cloak or something

thats probably the only other one

[solar kestrel]

yea but eventually you need to break it

[short radish]

yeah but you can live for 16 seconds with the dot

[solar kestrel]

hm yea then you're right

most of the fights are really telegraphed

on this tier

[short radish]

i take a bit of an extreme approach of it because i hate seeing it every time on reddit

where you can only parse well if you ignore every mechanic

and focus on 100% up time

[solar kestrel]

i mean to be fair

consistent parse around 97 mean you're good

[short radish]

there are very few times when your downtime significantly affects you

and you should play around it if you know its coming up

[solar kestrel]

anything above has some luck included

[short radish]

eg dimensius being sent up

[short radish]

yes there's defs luck involved

kill timings are one

just critting every single one of your coups is another

but i mean you also see the same people parse high consistently

are they just consistently lucky?

[solar kestrel]

idk if someone is doing 99+ every week

he's just way above everyone else

imo

[short radish]

yeah luck is an element

but its a lot smaller than it really is

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/frostmourne/garchomprokz

this is my mate

granted theres probably only a pool of like 7 frost mages

[solar kestrel]

yea that is also a factor

[short radish]

but he consistently gets r1 parses every single tier

[solar kestrel]

i lol

d

1 parse

[short radish]

okay maybe 7 was a bit too much

[solar kestrel]

ok

this is more hilarious

XDDDDDDD

[short radish]

yeah tahts why he's rank 2

and not rank 1 for all stars

[solar kestrel]

but yeah the moment is see rank being green

orange

or blue

and top 100

i know its a small pool

or veeeeeeeeeeery early kills

which inflate parses extremely

if you're in top50 guild you're getting crazy parses from the start

but yea this mage is fucking nuts

holy shit

[short radish]

yeah he's probably one of the top mages in the world

[solar kestrel]

i dont think i ever got 98 on mythic on my main

[short radish]

i think he's gotten M+ title every season as well

[solar kestrel]

97 is my max

[short radish]

couple tiers on a shaman though

[solar kestrel]

which is hilarious cause i really have no god damn clue how can i improve on parsing

[short radish]

lock in your parses after the damage +3% buff happens

thats how i do mine

[solar kestrel]

so, like, now?

lol

sucks to suck im bound on dime progress

[short radish]

yup thats how i got my saladbar parse

unluck

kill next week

and then week after reclear you have the final buff

[solar kestrel]

yea we're on p3

should be easy from there

[short radish]

glglgl

[solar kestrel]

although parsing on frost dk is such an ass

this is a class where a shitton of rng is involved

sadly

anyway

since im rerolling into sub till the end of expansion

i have one question

i read that into every sb i should have 2 stacks of sd and symbols

is that right?

if so, is there a sweet spot at which i should stop using both?

or just let it flow

[short radish]

the sweet spot is something like

25-30 seconds

is when you use your brain

you want 1.5 dances and 1.3 symbols going into your burst

so you do some mental math at around that point

[solar kestrel]

what have i stepped into

[short radish]

it sounds a lot more complex than it really is

you always cast 2 dances in your burst

and you typically cast 2 dances inbetween your "downtime" of next burst

usually its a 2/1 cadance

as in flag (2dance) -> 2dances -> flag (2dances) -> 1 dance -> flag (2dances)

see this right

[solar kestrel]

ok what about the situation when im having a huge downtime, 1 combo point, low energy and secret technique up

[short radish]

even though people are dancing at slightly different times

[solar kestrel]

can i start with sd

to get all cp

into st?

[short radish]

its still teh same count

[solar kestrel]

or should it be

get cp with backstabs

and then sd into st

[tepid trellis]

you can start at 0 cp

doesent matter

[short radish]

dont sectech without symbols and dont symbols without sdance

[solar kestrel]

yea these i know

[short radish]

aka dont send naked sectechs

its not worth

unless youre doing some really min maxxy stuff

[solar kestrel]

i probably make a huge mistake by macro sd with symbols

[tepid trellis]

you would just do Dance+backstab->sectech

[solar kestrel]

but im learning so i guess it can work till i start to optimise shit

[short radish]

yah

unmacro that

because when you do your burst

your 2nd press of dance + symbols

happen at different times

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

look at the image on the 2nd line

[solar kestrel]

let me check my logs real quick

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[short radish]

thats one of the min max things

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[short radish]

thats the other minmax thing

i'd advise doing prepull cheese. they make your opener feel way better

[solar kestrel]

yh i did some bad shit with 2 backstabs

but ig its a good start

[tepid trellis]

also lost a global in that dance

it do be what it do be

[solar kestrel]

yea its nexus king

some movement for soak

[tepid trellis]

was in reference for this, seems to be on pull, boss shouldnt be moving at that point

[solar kestrel]

oh

yea im slow with the buttons yet cause muscle memory isnt kicking in

[maiden oar]

if u get disorient prepull u also can go strike evisc vanish strike flag

[solar kestrel]

so sounds right

[maiden oar]

its a little bit better

ive been trying to be really particular about getting disorient every time and it has improved my dmg quite a bit

well not quite a bit but i do notice it

[solar kestrel]

wdym with disorient?

[maiden oar]

2nd prepull optimization

[tepid trellis]

just proc tier

[maiden oar]

TRUE

doesnt matter if u proc

[tepid trellis]

and you dont need to do the tech

[maiden oar]

but i think im not lucky enough

so i have to take things into my own hands...

[tepid trellis]

my will to log on and do this raid on my rogue is around 0.5%

[maiden oar]

my will is 10000%

[tepid trellis]

its soo fcking bad

[maiden oar]

but im like new to the game and improving quickly still

so im full of passion and hunger

[tepid trellis]

0 point playing sub anywhere

shit dies too fast now

[maiden oar]

the point is that its fun

[solar kestrel]

yea tbf after playing wow for around 16 years