subtlety

[swift tinsel]

no but 20% sounds high

so pacemaker will beat it

[dusk stone]

at 10% its not much better

[swift tinsel]

antenna isn't drastically better

[dusk stone]

this is 10% miss

[swift tinsel]

you can play either, pacemaker likely better if heavy movement

[dusk stone]

this is dslice too btw or rather i simmed both and its the same

[shadow lance]

Yeah, design sucks atm

[last gate]

soul hunter boots or araz?

which one better :3

[shadow lance]

I would say boots

Harder to have

[last gate]

agreed

[last gate]

im just taking an araz as hostage in hc

so i can trade it to boots

lmao

[static canyon]

Quick question for Dimensius MM killers, Assa or Sub? I'm sub atm, but after checking logs, it seems that if we want to be good on P2 and P3 we need a blessing of automn from hpal. And assa has the exec for him to do decent damage on last phase, but doesn't have the same cleave damage on P2

[radiant swift]

@vale pine this part in aoe - is coup not certain like in st?

[lilac stag]

@short radish let the acention to valhalla begin!

[shadow lance]

@lilac stag Is fury fun?

[lilac stag]

very much so, a nice change of pace from sub (i enjoy them both)

[shadow lance]

In HC? I would just take the biggest dps upgrade

[vale pine]

i assume you mean mythic+

[last gate]

yeah i just checke dand it was boots

:3

[vale pine]

because no its not certain

especially if you use ruptures before going into cooldowns

[radiant swift]

i see - why is that? atleast from the opener on st it looks certain there

[vale pine]

the image shows you

when you get a coup proc

you coup-storm-coup

else you just strike-bp

[radiant swift]

no i see that but why or how come the diffrence in st and aoe

[shadow lance]

Not the same moment of the timeline

Loo kthe numbers

[radiant swift]

well it is

[radiant swift]

bot are place 9 and 11

[radiant swift]

this is aoe

and this is st:

[shadow lance]

Bro, compare the same lines

[radiant swift]

this is legit the same

[shadow lance]

No

The first screen you shared to fuu is from the first timeline

[radiant swift]

ye the other is the optimazation which are both on the same spot

maybe coincidently but

[swift tinsel]

coup spot in the sequence is not guaranteed at the same place every time with tier set rng

[shadow lance]

Cuz, if you optimize, you strat burst with UB proc

[vale pine]

^

[radiant swift]

so its to me to react

[vale pine]

coup position is based on procs

[swift tinsel]

yes

[radiant swift]

i see

[swift tinsel]

so you do the coup string when you get the coup proc

not at X spot in a sequence

[bleak night]

i cant believe i saw the bingusguppy

[radiant swift]

cool ty

[swift tinsel]

the place it is in that graphic is an approximation

gotta have it somewhere lol

[radiant swift]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[radiant swift]

is there a way where i can see all !commands

[regal quarry]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[radiant swift]

found it

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[radiant swift]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[radiant swift]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[warm marlin]

[dense perch]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lilac stag]

needs some help

[tidal beacon]

learning sub, anyone mind taking a look at my log? Character name Zeleo.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZnYbkmxQrJtAXWRP?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=39

looking for some general pointers to start moving in the right direction 🙂

[warm marlin]

im not a cosmetic expert i apologize

im a fullset gamer i admit

[opal mantle]

chain dances in flag

never hit webs

its a lie they dont exist

if your rl asks you about it you go to volume mixer and get discord to 10%

maybe get less crit

get a real trinket to replace soleah

and you got the idea honestly rotation is good few minor mistakes some random shurikens but all g

[final pecan]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[short radish]

i was like holy shit how did you get 6mill dps

then i realised

it was warrior

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

on warrior until CE

vault blessed me with streets vers haste ring (bis)

[short radish]

booo haste

[lilac stag]

I snagged the boe vers/mas for 800k

[warm marlin]

800k!

holy moly

[lilac stag]

Think someone put it up at heroic price.

On accident.

[swift tinsel]

logic gate alpha only real upgrade for me rn and this happens

teehee

[radiant swift]

can someone explain this part to me: i sat with it but idk

[bleak night]

seaosn

[radiant swift]

is the "blocks the generation of.." a side effect? how does using shuriken prevent this

i mean i can see it as the while the buff is up because u get it trough unseen blade until consumed u cant get new ones - then it would make perfect sense with the dont waste procs for it - this would also mean the first one does block aswell so u have to be swifty because of that 5sec window

[grizzled thorn]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tidal beacon]

so I have a few other trinkets I could replace Soleah with;
Seaforium, Araz Ritual, Sacbrood all heroic. Soleah is SIM'ing higher and it's mythic.

[opal mantle]

id say play double on use with araz

soleah looks like the worse of them all to me but heh if it sims better im wrong

maybe try sims with your crit reduced ? i dont really know

[river cargo]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[willow mantle]

!trinkets

!netherprism

[bleak night]

[charred kestrel]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[radiant swift]

i see so it was as asumed - ty

[warm marlin]

31M sectec hit on loomithar

holy moly

[bleak night]

[willow mantle]

whats the command to see what you do with double on use

[karmic harbor]

hmm

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[willow mantle]

oh

i tried !netherprism

lol

[warm marlin]

turbo boost pov

86M coup in st

[grizzled thorn]

Is there a way to sim foods ?

[lilac stag]

Pinned in #tc-research

[warm marlin]

4 add spawns in a row on araz

[plucky mesa]

does wow analyzer even work for sub rogue?

[short radish]

no

you can see if you go into specs

when the latest updates were

[tranquil sorrel]

Why/when do I vanish as sub?

[plucky mesa]

oh thank fuck

everytime i plugged it in it just said i was doing so many things wrong lmao

[short radish]

you vanish whenever you feel like you want to vanish

[short radish]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

easier to do that

[plucky mesa]

if ur in ST vanish if ur builders are no longer granting max cp to then rupture

[short radish]

and upskill yourself in log reviewing

when to vanish also depends on context

are you talking about raid

are you talking about m+

are you talking about open world

are you talking about pvp

but end of the day

other than pvp probably

when you vanish really doesnt matter

you just press when you think "i want the benefits of vanish here"

the dps gain/loss from pressing vanish is a rounding error afaik

[bleak night]

i vanish to use storm between coups in st outside of dance despite it not actually doing anything

[short radish]

vanish into storm pog

[plucky mesa]

shouldnt need a vanish for storm if ur in qoe

*aoe

[plucky mesa]

but why use storm? lol

[brisk onyx]

avoid to trigger unseen blade

[plucky mesa]

why dont you want it to trigger unseen blade?

[frosty bramble]

Hold it for coup

[brisk onyx]

cus the stack won’t increase between two coup

u want to trigger unseen after the second coup

[plucky mesa]

so what do you do? spam storm until 7 points?

i think the damage ur wasting by not holding unseen is lost by spamming storm lmao

[tepid trellis]

Thats why he Said he would vanish into storm

Premed makes it give full cp

[brisk onyx]

vanish to get prem so just one storm can get full cps

[tepid trellis]

And on AoE it just ofc gives alot of cps. And during blades you get full No matter what

[plucky mesa]

and the other times?

[brisk onyx]

see what Stealthi say

[tepid trellis]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tepid trellis]

Point 2

Its only in those 2 scenarios u should be doing it

[plucky mesa]

seems to be doing just fine without all that extra stuff lmao

thats only 3 mins tho

[tall girder]

Siphoning stiletto spotted

[swift tinsel]

accidental self-report

[plucky mesa]

i literally havent seen a single weapon drop on this guy, not in vault, not in keys, not in raid, so im running 2 crafted lol

[tired dome]

What is the best trinket combo? Araz and Prism, or Antenna and Prism?

[swift tinsel]

either or is fine

[tired dome]

I just dont want to take an Antenna from someone in raid if Araz is better

[plucky mesa]

antenna is really good for aoe, id still take it, its good in st too, but only works well when paired with prism

[sullen yarrow]

yo boysa

[warm depot]

AHHH

I FORGOT TO 18 STACK PRISM ON OUR ARAZ KILL

[swift tinsel]

F

[warm depot]

MY PARSE NOOOOOOOOO

[swift tinsel]

only think I'm looking forward to this week is farming pvp appearances via Comp Stomp

[tall girder]

Go again

[warm depot]

im never going to look at araz again

[swift tinsel]

we're never even going to get there

[warm depot]

idt how it took over 100 pulls for some people in my group to realize you have to stack to knockback the adds properly

despair

[tall girder]

Reclear or prog clear

[warm depot]

prog clear

now i get to relax on fract

but good lord im mad that i fucked up our kill

[tall girder]

It happens just run it back next week or u extending

[warm depot]

extending

dinars comingup so everyone who wants forge can get it

prayge

[last gate]

do we have any macro?

im lazy af

and pressing forge / prism is hard

[gleaming plank]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility >= Critical Strike >>> Haste

[warm depot]

i think someone made a wa a while back

with a delay timer but i cba to find it

i just have forge on sb and i press prism manually

[left ledge]

Huh maybe I could’ve done that instead of piano mode

Opening on dim with shift v for trink and shift w for blades was not good for my brain

[warm depot]

ya i have ctrl 1 for sb + forge

and shift 4 for prism lmfao

[karmic harbor]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[karmic harbor]

If you wait too long between blades casts it'll cast araz back to back so bare that in mind

But if forge is on CD it'll use prism

[dense swallow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[dense swallow]

how come this doesn't use tempered potion

i tried the item id as well

didn't work

[mild brook]

what is the reason why half of the logs use prism on p1 of dimmy and the other half hold till first add of p2

is it just group pushing timings?

[plucky mesa]

the longer p1 goes on the more it hurts

who needs macros when u got carpel tunnel

[dense swallow]

this is a real mans loadout

[mild brook]

Last week most people used p2 instead of p1 on logs, now it is different, even though we got the damage raid buff? i feel like it would have the opposite effect

[plucky mesa]

id imagine its like always using lust first pull in keys, that way you get maximum amount of usage

also because their bursting the most in p1 and need the agility

[short radish]

because if you do

0:00 araz
1:30 Prism (9)
dont get a 3rd one till first platform
1st platform (araz)
2nd platform (prism not at max stacks because youre flying)
burn (araz)

it's kind of a waste of prism stacks since you're holding damage for ages anyway so people do

0:00 araz
1:30 prism (9)

1st OR 2nd platform (araz) depending where you need damage

burn (prism max stack)

[pine mirage]

def

is dmg boost

assuming no need to hold anymore

for min max on art

so can send 9 stacker 2nd flag

[hexed sluice]

Whoops soaked all fractures on soulhunters

[meager coyote]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[meager coyote]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[timber basalt]

to immune the soak on the hunt for soul hunters is it only the last second or can I just hit it

[shy scarab]

Is it your first time killing him?

[hoary bloom]

If I get the gilded crests achievement does my main also have the reduced price on crests, or does it only affect alts ?

[runic sequoia]

Main too

It's per slot watermark tho

I have saved crests on my main via upgrading on my alt

Sucks with crafted gear there is no discount obviously

To craft a new piece that is

[shy scarab]

I still got a 704 crafted wrist😬

[maiden oar]

my 2nd sub rogue is in a bit of a pickle trinket wise and i dont want to send the dinar next week until i can kill m fractillus in a guild alt run

am i supposed to cosplay a 2min class or send on cd and forge every other

or is it just killtime dependent (assume its this one)

sims dont like eternal weave and ferocity badge relative to this setup

[fossil forge]

https://tenor.com/view/lebron-dunk-lebron-james-levronjame-gif-1038771198631298897

i got the second trinket when no1 even plays the game anymore i finally did it

its not on rogue but it counts!

[maiden oar]

yea i got the 2nd one on my main today also

we finally did it

[ivory vigil]

is it true though? Season 3 has been out for like 2 months and people already moved on? I feel old

to be fair 2 months for some is like 200 hours of playtime, for me it's closer to 40

[fossil forge]

Lots of people cleared the raid

I swapped guilds and i am on the bench till farm for mounts

and everyone is playing remix lowkey

[maiden oar]

im gearing a 2nd guy so i can raid more

but its like my 2nd season raiding so im honeymooning pretty hard

i wanna reclear until midnight

[fossil forge]

Wish there was a guild that just perma farmed gear 0 care finishing the tier

[ivory vigil]

i completely switched my mindset for tww, no gear chase, I just want to experience every raid and dungeon, and get the current tier transmog in the best looking variation (currently the heroic tier looks best to me)

and delves are pretty fun so I'm working on the T11 achievement

[maiden oar]

yea i just wanna do the fights

gear doesnt matter only pressing buttons

content is its own reward

[fossil forge]

game would be finished first month If i played like that

not everyone enjoys speedrunning

[fathom adder]

do you prefer prism + passive or double on use on nexusking ?

[alpine wraith]

double on use is more platform dmg

on use + passive is more p1 and amp +p3 dmg possibly

[void ocean]

how do u guys do kyveza shit in p1, is it "jesus take the wheel" moment oor... 😄

[alpine wraith]

you get used to facing it

[short radish]

only hard one is the 3rd one, if you can't do first two then do ??

As soon as first one drops make sure you face it straight away so you dont need to adjust later
Watch for teh 2nd one as well and keep your eyes on it so you're already looking at it (IRL not in game) when you need to
3rd one should be obvious

also use inky black potion

also do kyveza ??

[void ocean]

is there a way of positioning, like if i turn my back towards the edge to be sure all of em will be somewhat in front

all im afraid is to have one of them 20 yards behind me

cause i will probably miss it

[fossil forge]

Black inky potion makes the ghost 1000x more visible

U dont even need to be directly facing them like kyveza

[limpid sage]

ye if you only fit one more cd anyway you might as well hold for forge

[maiden oar]

yea

[limpid sage]

doubt it's worth holding cds for 30 sec to fit them with forge

[maiden oar]

surely i just hit prism in vault and its fine

[limpid sage]

outside of abovementioned scenario

[maiden oar]

wish u could upgrade dinar items to myth after u kill the myth boss so that way i dont have to do an entire prismless alt run

[maiden oar]

agree in my head but unsure what the math says but also u are probably right hehe

[maiden oar]

i like it but also farms fun

games just fun

[harsh nimbus]

is there a bug with cold blood on macro ?

[maiden oar]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[maiden oar]

only this

[harsh nimbus]

xD

nice

[void ocean]

how is this shit still not fixed ffs

[maiden oar]

funny

[fathom adder]

@alpine wraith thank you

is double on use really used on bosses/m+ or is it more of a meme due to the 8k agi loss from f.e. antenna?

[fringe geyser]

/fuu

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fathom adder]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[limpid sage]

not a meme - it's noticably better on good kill timers and aligns better with a lot of the dmg amps in raid

[fathom adder]

ok thank you. Which amp for example? having a hard time imagining the scenario right now (not meaning its not true)

[limpid sage]

nexus king with platform and amp, and araz with forge at 30, prism send at 2:00 and forge on amp at ~3:30

[short radish]

HOW THE FUCK DO I FORGET TO PRESS SHADOWBLADES

[fathom adder]

@limpid sage thank you. I guess it could be worth for dimensius too with the plattformadds and the amp then?

but idk did not look at that fight on myth at all right now

[limpid sage]

Ye that one as well, but pacemaker is supposedly really good on that one as well

[limpid sage]

Bind sectec to shadowblades, problem solved 😎👍🏻

[void ocean]

last night on Hunters, last pull, opener i get so many UB procs, like 4 Coups in the first dance, huge dps... then i realise i didnt pop flag...

wanted to jump out of the circle

[fossil forge]

6 coup opener

https://tenor.com/view/xqc-lost-ilost-ahh-ahhaa-gif-23799192

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/ugh-gross-bitterbeerface-yikes-gif-12255916

[karmic harbor]

bro gets a big ass reminder on his screen too

[short radish]

im gonna blame my keyboard malfunctioning

[limpid sage]

• audio cues, braille and airhorns

never happened to me with sblades, always happens with flag to me

what key do you have sblades on?

[karmic harbor]

time to macro blades and flag fimbul

you cant be trusted

[tall girder]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[wild hornet]

Can you skip soul hunters if you killed them to go to saladbars room

[latent finch]

You never need to kill soul hunters to get to nexus king. You can skip them completely.

[tropic fog]

yo guys do you use Netherprism on every SB or do you delay it?

[alpine wraith]

you can always skip soulhunters

[karmic harbor]

got in a pug group

killed araz in 5 pulls

couldnt kill fractilus after 1.5hours and disbanded

weak aura boss too hard

[limpid sage]

Weakaura boss moment

[rancid spade]

is there a way to test personal notes on dummy with mrt?

[karmic harbor]

not that i know off

i usually test it on first boss in eye of aszara

[pliant stirrup]

I am indecisive and need help..

IN BEFORE I have simmed them and they provide rougly equal benefit.

I already have both at 6/8 Hero, got them in vault as 1/8 Myth both with Leech.

[void ocean]

k, can we now say sim yo self 😄

[karmic harbor]

what're your other trinkets, what content do you do

[pliant stirrup]

Equipped are the Lily and Pacemaker at 6/8 Hero.
The only other trinket I have is a 8/8 Champ Netherprism.
I do mostly M+ with the occasional Soul Hunters run for boots.

[tepid trellis]

if you aint planning on setting foot on mythic fract/araz take lilly

[left ledge]

Just take pace no?

Hero prism better than mythic Lily I think

[pliant stirrup]

I am leaning towards pacemaker since we get Dinars next week

[karmic harbor]

are you sure you dont want to play with prism

esp. for m+ its really good

[left ledge]

Did you sim them with a hero prism

Or just with what you have

[pliant stirrup]

That I did not

[left ledge]

Should probably add a max upgraded hero prism and run a sim

[pliant stirrup]

Time to get simming

[tepid trellis]

pretty sure its gonna tell him to run prism+lily

[left ledge]

I mean then he will have a clear answer

[tepid trellis]

unless his crit is turbo dog

[left ledge]

Yeah

I mean pace isn’t bad, and combos really well with when you pop a fat prism

But means your non prism cds aren’t as juiced

[pliant stirrup]

Hero Prism next week + Pace now seems to be the best option.
Thanks for the help1

[opal basalt]

i started gearing a dk alt because i didnt enjoy remix too much

of course that one gets myth antenna right in the first vault

[ancient leaf]

guys i never know when to use evis or when to use black powder in m+

[opal basalt]

unlike my rogue i did 2/8m like 5x on

[opal basalt]

BP on 4+ targets

[ancient leaf]

but ive seen people in streams pressing eviscerate only for example in the first pull of dawn

[opal basalt]

thats when you wanna do priority target damage

for maximum damage you bp at 4+

[limpid sage]

lily only simmed equal to pacemaker for me with 1t fixed 5 min timer

but I have decent amount of mastery and pretty low crit

[ancient leaf]

is it really that simple? i cant imagine im just talking dmg wise not if prio dmg is needed to be clear

[opal basalt]

yes it is

[karmic harbor]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[charred kestrel]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[opal basalt]

look we even have a command for it lol

forgot about that

[alpine wraith]

i do find cute people think we have prio

[opal basalt]

this is it for me with those stats

[limpid sage]

makes sense - you have a lot of crit

[junior lintel]

yo guys - does nimble flurry work like blade flurry or caustic spatter? I mean splash from target or player?

[swift tinsel]

player

[languid harness]

why do we want to use shuriken storm in these moments?

[fleet wharf]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[languid harness]

if im reading this right is this so we dont waste unseen blade procs while coup de grace is active?

[fleet wharf]

yup

it's a minor piece of optimization. unless you need every little ounce of damage, you can just keep pressing shadowstrike

[languid harness]

gotcha, ty

[merry forge]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[fast flax]

yo btw are we still runnin 701 waist with current electric ?

[left ledge]

No

Replace with a higher ilvl belt

[ivory vigil]

can you catalyst the 701 waist?

[fast flax]

i feel like my gear is so dogshitr

[short radish]

yeah having rings with haste on it isn't good

you should also upgrade your weap to 727

or at least 723

dont worry crests are uncapped next week

[fast flax]

is just that farming valorstone

feels like fking crap

[lilac pendant]

Same but golden crests

[fast flax]

what is the lvl of key we have to do in order to get top valorstone ?

8 ?

10

?

[short aurora]

someone to get io i think

[swift tinsel]

if you farm crests to upgrade stuff you cap valorstones pretty fast

can pretty much speedrun 10-12s

[fossil forge]

Best valorstone farm is when you time a key and someone gains rio

i can be +1 doesnt matter ion remember how much u get though

[fast flax]

oh fk xd

im 3303 so hard rn XD

ig gotta spam 10s with alts

[fossil forge]

Doesnt have to be you

this is definitely not worth it right

socket angle

i have a fuckton of crit

[swift tinsel]

looks like an upgrade over sigil to me

sockets are tiny value

[fossil forge]

isnt it marginal

[glacial kraken]

u also have a lot of crit cos

ur gems r all crit

[fossil forge]

plus antenna sux on last 2

[glacial kraken]

can just take that and resim ur gems

[fossil forge]

simming gems rn

[swift tinsel]

socket is probs even more marginal tbh

[glacial kraken]

if ur just gonna buy a forge in a week tho

i guess a socket is fine

[fossil forge]

just simmed gems swapping from crit to mastery vers gems is 5,2k

[glacial kraken]

alongside the antenna?

[radiant swift]

what are like corw strenghts of rogue i can sell my RL to?

[swift tinsel]

we have extremely high burst damage

[fossil forge]

y

[swift tinsel]

assassination brings good execute

[tepid trellis]

highest burst cleave in the game

[swift tinsel]

^^

[fossil forge]

sexiest spec from all 3

[swift tinsel]

also not tied to lust so we can do that whenever

[radiant swift]

thats it?😂

[fossil forge]

single target is the worst in the game

do not mention singletarget

[swift tinsel]

wtf you mean thats it lmao

[radiant swift]

he gone day may aswell a hunter or smth else

[glacial kraken]

we give damage reduction 🙂

[radiant swift]

very high or highest burst dmg?

[swift tinsel]

do you understand how valuable that is

[tepid trellis]

outside of a rng rolling hunter

we are the highest

and by far the highest out of lust burst

[swift tinsel]

you can carry phases of fights

[fossil forge]

solo carry aoe

💪

[swift tinsel]

if you play with 2+ brain cells as sub

[tepid trellis]

Sub essentially hard carried Nexus king platforms and Platforms on dimmy

you can pretty much solo platforms on nexus king

[radiant swift]

now thats what im talking about real dmg

[swift tinsel]

you mean burst aoe

"that's it" lookin ahhh

[radiant swift]

st burst used to be decent too but that dont matter as much

[glacial kraken]

no one ever cares about the dr

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[tepid trellis]

cuz its mostly a nothing burger

[glacial kraken]

u can pretend its good tho

[swift tinsel]

yeah with giant health pools and shit its kinda w/e

esp this late

[radiant swift]

i mean if u look at other classes

the thing is

its a arcane mage to sub rogue change

he wilö survive it for sure

[tepid trellis]

[swift tinsel]

how dare you do over twice that arcane mage's damage

[radiant swift]

u fucking love that one huh - i fuck with it so hard

[hard lintel]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[hard lintel]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tepid trellis]

love this more

[glacial kraken]

Risen Ghoul not really pulling his weight

[radiant swift]

lets fucking goooo - must feel nice nice

[wintry holly]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[radiant swift]

cant fucking wait to be back

[glacial kraken]

what boss are you up to anyhow?

[tepid trellis]

had to run it back and get it again, so we did pad our ass off on it

[radiant swift]

we at the beginning beginning😂 this like my first real mythic prog - we should ne ablr to do 6/8 but i dont think we can the last two - and ill just switch classes inbetween

[radiant swift]

6.8 to 8.8 is crazyy

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glacial kraken]

month of gear will do that

[tepid trellis]

that was the prog kill

at like wr 58 or smth like that

[glacial kraken]

my guild up to nexus king now

[radiant swift]

but still

[glacial kraken]

excited to get a fat 0 on our kill run

[radiant swift]

if i go from 713 to 723 on pure sim i dont think its a full mil dps

[tepid trellis]

well its not a single target fight

[glacial kraken]

a patchwerk sim isn't the same as that fight

[radiant swift]

ye sure obv it scales more depending in targets

still sick tho

[tepid trellis]

thats the gear from the prog kill

[radiant swift]

also it was a 5t 5min sim

bcs thats how mage sims aoe

[glacial kraken]

got that outlaw shirt on

[karmic harbor]

we killed nexus king on our first pull of the day, my game froze at 1:28 exactly as 2 ghosts came out

[tepid trellis]

this is in the new rank 1

[karmic harbor]

so i ethically sent 16 stack prism (by accident) on platforms

[fathom adder]

do you evi into the one mob on nexus plattform or full aoe all with bp?

[tepid trellis]

i pressed evis

[karmic harbor]

it's kinda funny

wish we didnt kill cause i lost 1 flag cast

[tepid trellis]

BP would do more AoE but it will also kill them faster which means less uptime on 5-6 targets

[forest stump]

Hey all, is deathstalker still undertuned like crazy? I see no representation at all but I wonder if thats just habit or smth?

[swift tinsel]

yeah its bad on live

[crystal bone]

undertuned, bugged, horrible gameplay loop

whole expansion

[leaden prairie]

what de helly !

nerf sub

[forest stump]

thats sad, i hate how some hero talents are obv made for a spec like sub + deathstalker, yet its unplayable..

i feel the same with arcane + sunfury etc.

[swift tinsel]

deathstalker is like 99% assassination-tailored

trickster is the one def made with sub in mind

[forest stump]

hmm i dont know, sub is all about shadow dance and etc, trickster is like misdirection into slicing them

while deathstalker is all about lurking in shadow as well like sub

just from a theme or whatever standpoint xd

[leaden prairie]

from a gameplay standpoint all 3 hero specs were made with no rogue spec in mind anywya

[swift tinsel]

Real

[distant canopy]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tired dome]

!trinkets

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[scenic plover]

how do i finally get a mythic dagger in the vault and its a shitty one

2k dps upgrade over heroic loom dagger at 730

[alpine wraith]

that is impossible unless you are not equipping it on main hand

[scenic plover]

its offhand yes

[alpine wraith]

yea then it is cooked

[alpine wraith]

you can craft a second one

or your first one on offhand

it is 727 with matrix

although dont waste gildeds yet

[glacial kraken]

if ur raiding mythic anyhow

ur probably just gonna get another myth dagger anyways

[scenic plover]

only first kill dropped one and now we extend

[glacial kraken]

araz prog?

[scenic plover]

close

[glacial kraken]

idk waht u mean by that

[glacial kraken]

oh

i think i misunderstood you

i thought you'd been extending since ur first kill

of loom

which would just be very confusing but w/e

this makes more sense

[scenic plover]

7 kills and only got 1 dagger

crazy stuff

[glacial kraken]

un forunate

3 dropped in 6 for us

[alpine wraith]

next week you can just craft one

at least for offhand 727 cs 730 is whatever

and you can run ascendance too

[glacial kraken]

probably already runnign focus lens

[quaint lodge]

dont believe the propaganda

still no myth dagger

loomithar killed like 9x and saladhaar teic

twice

laughing its so unlucky

[tight monolith]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[graceful osprey]

This week for sure, trust

[quaint lodge]

inshallah

[scenic plover]

same will come to me once dimmy dies

[rigid sparrow]

hi guys! Is anyone knows if its better to have arazhc + prism hc (double use trinks) or prism hc + pacemaker myth ? ( i currently have lily , pacemaker myth, araz and prism on hc). Ty!

all these talking about m+ content moslty

[sullen hare]

🤖

all of those are good trinket combos though forge+prism is the most popular for m+ I think

[swift tinsel]

yeah you're pretty much fine running either

just don't sit on trinket uses with double on-use and you're good

[rigid sparrow]

althought my sims are kind lower with double on use probably cuz of ilvl dif. Thats why im asking if anyone has any opinion about that

[swift tinsel]

I've played a bit with both and it's kinda w/e either way

sims can't perfectly model an m+ dungeon so gotta take them with a grain of salt

[rigid sparrow]

on which + did you try them>'

[swift tinsel]

idk a handful of them from 10-12s

[rigid sparrow]

ahhaa im trying to push some, so if anyone around 117-18-19s knows anything is welcome 🙂

[karmic harbor]

for 17s at least double on use is really nice

stopped pushing 2 or so weeks ago so idk about higher than that

esp. with dungeons like floodgate you basically dont miss a trinket use with how the pulls are structured and that's probably the hardest dung

[fast flax]

how do we see this at 716 ilvl

what was the item to add a socket to helm or waist?

[scenic plover]

search "setting"

[vale pine]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=213777/magnificent-jewelers-setting

[fast flax]

tx got it

)

[void ocean]

But dont buy the df one like me couple of times 😂

Went for 3 stars like lemming

[fast flax]

for m+ do we actually run this ? Enchant Weapon - Oathsworn's Tenacity

Enchant Weapon - Council's Guile

idk how much % of crit we aiming for on sub

[swift tinsel]

any of them besides the haste one are fine

[strange chasm]

You see sin is destorying nexus rn

beating sub in overalls

[distant canopy]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[scenic plover]

smh buy a 2 star and then a 3star to save money

(this is a joke)

[cunning anvil]

Guys, quick question:

I was told to change my disc belt for any 710+ belt, but simming keeps telling me to keep the disc even with a 710 belt.

do you guys know anything about this? I felt a huge dps loss from the belt nerf

[fast flax]

i feel way better with that belt off also simming better

using a 717 one

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/sloth-smile-slow-smooth-hd-neuron-activation-gif-24950071

[sweet turret]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[scenic plover]

follow what big robot says

[slate lantern]

nah fuck the robot, trash the disc belt and be free

[scenic plover]

dont listen to anti robot propaganda

[slate lantern]

big robot would tell you to keep jastor

[scenic plover]

then you wear that big stone with pride

[karmic harbor]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[real rain]

are u guys using on mythic araz some kind of WA that says when to press cds?

[charred kestrel]

Lorrgs is helpful with that

[vale pine]

No, but you can export that from lorrgs

[hazy vigil]

is there a macro that works that I can press to use vanish into shadowstrike in one button?

[real rain]

but in general its like 30sec after a pull and then on cd?

[vale pine]

nothing without requireing 2 button presses

[hazy vigil]

I use these timings for Araz:
{time24} 00:24 Edn - Prism Burst
{time:01:58} 01:58 Edn - Burst
{time:03:32} 03:32 Edn - Prism Burst
{time:05:08} 05:08 Edn - Prism Burst

[slate lantern]

:00:

[charred kestrel]

lol

[hazy vigil]

right just noticed vanish is on the GCD

my keybinds are kinda fucked so I often fuck up the vanish into shadowstrike in raid

[knotty depot]

Question I just got Araz and I already have prism

didn't go double on-use until now

How do I use them together usually and macro-wise ?

[vale pine]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[knotty depot]

Hum I guess I'll have to pop it manually to avoid issues with a macro with the two inside with forge prio

Thanks fuu

[fast flax]

how is this for a 16 eco ?

[quaint lodge]

low shouldve done 17 mil overall

[hollow raptor]

Just gauge the timings

[quaint lodge]

jokes aside, looks good

if you timed the key was good enough

if you wanna know how you did relative to other people who are sub rogue doing 16 eda, log the key

[fast flax]

ye we timed

that sub has 0 funnel makes me so sad xd

[placid elk]

!cheese

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[fathom adder]

how do you play your first cd combi on nexus king when you got to soak the 3rd puddle? delay the 2nd dance a little bit or whats the play

[hollow raptor]

u just send, usually boss tps to u

just move close to the end of the soak

instead of the start

and youi'll catch him mid gcd usually

or if u get lucky he does the other pattern and u dont have to move at all

[fathom adder]

ok thank you

[shrewd lantern]

boss should be in melee range fulltime

[fathom adder]

idk right now, we just started progress and we kinda run back to soak if it is the 3rd and in generally with like 3 seconds until the boss is in melee again

[hollow raptor]

depends on ur group tbh, our team did a movement pattern to bait better beams

[fathom adder]

probably just playing weird

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah we stayed behind for baits

[hollow raptor]

yeah it starts middle of map and then dragged to edge of inner ring then middle of outer ring for a soak

[shrewd lantern]

which had boss in melee still

[charred kestrel]

Nimble flurry is their funnel

And coup

[tepid trellis]

[swift tinsel]

uh

what

[shrewd lantern]

”I heard a streamer say this word once but dont know what it means”

[swift tinsel]

maybe its the kind of dyslexia where you mistake Nimble Flurry for Singular Focus

[shrewd lantern]

ds sub return

[karmic harbor]

dimensius hands are so annoying

i need to be able to turn him into a crab

i have voidphobia

[bleak night]

Crab mode should work on everything not just spiders

[odd knoll]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[left ledge]

I mean that guy isn’t wrong

Nimble flurry is our funnel

We just have it turned upside down

[bleak night]

lennuf

[swift tinsel]

ɟnuuǝl

there we go

[timber basalt]

For soul hunters the hunt does the cloak press need to be within 1 second of the cast like the araz soak or can I just press it at like 3-4 seconds

[latent finch]

every second of the cloak works for it

[fluid fiber]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[timber basalt]

Thanks

[winter python]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[limpid sage]

do you guys overcap cds for dmg amp on nexus king?

[wild hornet]

do you guys prefer WM or TFD for nexus prince?

[vale pine]

tfd

[limpid sage]

also cheat death doesn't work like 50% of the time on soak?

[vale pine]

cheat death only works if you don't get more than twice yoru hp on damage

[limpid sage]

ah ok so it's prob because I feinted as well?

the times it worked that is

[vale pine]

you can use mitigation if it brings you below

[tepid trellis]

the mc triggers before cheat death does

thats why

[karmic harbor]

guys

if im literally not going to press prism till p3 dimmy

its worth for sure still right

[warm marlin]

if you're at the point where you can safely hold prism for p3 and the entire raid doesnt die to p2 platforms living

its turbo omega bis trinket

huge damage amp value

[vale pine]

sounds cursed

[radiant swift]

am i spaming evis during dance? is this what "us evis to proc coup" means above "at 4 targets and above use bp" ?

[swift tinsel]

in aoe (4+ targets) you use bp, and coup when you have the proc

[radiant swift]

wait yeah coup uses dosnt proc

is it just worded weirdly

ye this prob means to consume - makes sense

ty sir

[shy flare]

is there a certain amount of mastery where diminishing returns start hitting hard? just noticing on the sim its starting to lose a lot of value for me

[tepid trellis]

not something you yourself should ever really worry about, just follow the robot

stats are always a balancing act

[shy flare]

just seems way out of balance for me right now. crit like 50% better than mastery

I am simming stuff just curious of the method to the madness there

[hazy breach]

Dont bother simming stat weights

Literally just compare your items in topgear

[karmic harbor]

we love holding damage

[vale pine]

haha

[radiant swift]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[pine mirage]

Any tech for dimmy or just kill boss ezgg

[radiant swift]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[radiant swift]

the stec being first in cds is only for the first or like start of big cds is that correct? other than that delaying SOD for 2 stec is the only thing to think about and chaining Dances?

[tepid trellis]

its used asap because of the cooldown and to move along your hero talents

[radiant swift]

so am i delaying the second dance/symbols for stec to be the first finisher again or am i getting it out asap in the second dance

[tepid trellis]

you just chain the dances

[radiant swift]

and then it being first in the dances without big cds to it be rdy for the big cds again

[tepid trellis]

and press SoD when sectech will be up for supercharger

thats how the major cd cadence work

[radiant swift]

i see

the 3 dance stec was out of it - im guessing i was pressing to slow then

[tepid trellis]

for regular dances outside it doesent matter all that much, as long as sectech is either first 2nd finisher

[radiant swift]

damn this is arcane all over again im having "cds" or atleast smaler ones like alot+

[tepid trellis]

well you dance 2x with blades
then your next dance (3rd) is whenever sectech is ready again

[radiant swift]

i see so the 3 one is a bit delayed

and then every 2 cylces i get 2 additional dances without big cds

[tepid trellis]

with good uptime

it alternates between 2 dances between blades uses and 1

[radiant swift]

i see so play it safe at the begining

ty for the info

this shit hard

ngl

[short radish]

honestly mate

just go to lorrgs

pick a log that matches your kill timing

and copy when dances + flag is pressed

and do that

[radiant swift]

ill def at some point just for timings

[tepid trellis]

+2x-----------+2x----------+2x repeat
for every 1 dance there is 1 symbols and 1 sectech

[radiant swift]

gotta learn first what is happening

[tall girder]

Wooo fim

[short radish]

wooooo jontic

[tall girder]

U got any nexus king tech after platforms for me

[tepid trellis]

pool for amp

there u go

[short radish]

yeah go afk for 30 seconds when you land

[tall girder]

Thanks kings

[short radish]

you can do like

one sectech

to get UB stacks

[tepid trellis]

can send 1x dance depending on how many you sent during platform

[short radish]

then symbols and just auto attack/shuri storm

to generate your ShT

then you go in with 2 UB procs + 14 sht

and blast

[tall girder]

Huge

Hoping we get past the ghost affix tonight

(Arcane missiles)

[tepid trellis]

i have a good strat for that

face the ghosts

hope it helps!

[tall girder]

I’m professional I did some kyveza

[short radish]

if it helps, don't worry about tracking all of subs cooldowns at the same time but work down a priority list

The only 2 cooldowns you really need to keep an eye out first are sectech and flag

Flag being teh obvious one - at 30 seconds think for a second about pressing things
Sectech - once sectech is off cooldown you look at whether you have enough dance/symbols charges AND you can go into flag with 1.5 dance/symbols if its 30 seconds

things kinda fall in place around those 2 cooldowns

• the usual maintain rupture

[radiant swift]

what im doing rn is looking at dance 2 stack if its lower than my flag - kinda going of that - i did somehow manage to not need to send 2 SOD for 2 Dance with seems off - i just had enough SOD left for the second stec inside 2 dance

[tall girder]

Did u not supercharge ur 2nd sec tech

[radiant swift]

oh

see now that u say that

fck

[short radish]

dw shit happens

[tall girder]

The 2nd Sec tech is the big one

[short radish]

i forgot to press sblades on opener in araz

[tall girder]

Dw I won’t look if my dance is actually over and then send a naked cb sech tech

[radiant swift]

is that realy solely because of the extra mastery of flag or am i missing somenthing else

oh ye i cba there will be enough mistakes

[short radish]

flag stacks + flawless form stacks

• coldblood

basically everything is condensed in there

[radiant swift]

oh true flawless form stacks

[tall girder]

30 second ramp class

[short radish]

woooo venthyr boomkin

[radiant swift]

man this new sub is somenthing

theres so much happening

[short radish]

enjoy it while it lasts

[radiant swift]

heavy fucking with it

its like

arcane mage

but better?

uncapped

it feels like almost same amount of cds

[short radish]

not uncapped

[radiant swift]

well not hard capped

[short radish]

but you kinda choose when you want to omega delete something

[cunning anvil]

Guys, can anybody be a doll and take a look at one of my logs? I feel like i'm misunderstanding the entire rotation...

[short radish]

because of prism

[short radish]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

also do a !log

and pray someone looks at it

[tall girder]

U beat me to it

[radiant swift]

its crazy how much agil it just gives and its not even decaying like

[short radish]

fingies too quick

18 stack prism goes hard

[radiant swift]

unfortunate for my guild

[tall girder]

I’m at tafe lmao and I can’t type very good on phone

[radiant swift]

they wanted a mage

now that mage is gona do only the necessary raid

[tall girder]

Fim is cracked at mage

[cunning anvil]

huh, that's weird. this says i should cast secret techniques before eviscerate

always been taught to do evis, then secret technique

[radiant swift]

its not unfun - atleast u see things delete aswell - its like a rogue in ranged somewhat

[tall girder]

I’m too ad strafe pilled to play caster I cancel too many casts

[radiant swift]

you cant possibly fanthom

as how many red thingies there were in my logs

from AD

its so hard to stand still

[tall girder]

I got lucky and played destro for a bit this patch so most of it is instant casts

[radiant swift]

i mean u can do alot with missles and barages

[cunning anvil]

!log

[radiant swift]

but like the dps loss from not standing still is crazy

[terse wigeon]

is there any scenario where you want to shadow blades without flagellation? I noticed people doing it on dimensius 2nd platform where they weren't popping anything on platform 1...

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[clever drift]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[civic orbit]

does atrophic poison still stack(multiplicatively)?

!atrophic

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[short radish]

they say its been fixed

[civic orbit]

oh wow

thank you

[short radish]

np

[alpine wing]

ey, been thinking about deathstalker on Midnight is this too crazy a build? focusing on shadow dmg

[hushed roost]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[warm marlin]

man

what a disgusting fight dimensius is now

horrible experience

[fleet wharf]

What's wrong with it? cds are all fucked because add health got nerfed?

[warm marlin]

yes

with autumn i could maybe send on both platforms and the amp

[fleet wharf]

Are you guys holding or is there no good place to send them on platforms?

[warm marlin]

but without it plus we are just pushing so fast

i have to skip a plat

[fleet wharf]

I copied your cd for saladbar, but I thought your guild didn't have a holy pally

[warm marlin]

ya we don't im saying without autumn im completely screwed

maybe with autumn its salvagable but idk

dont even think so

we started the damage amp at 5:29

[fleet wharf]

is it assa angle now? lol

[warm marlin]

hell no i wont play that thing

[fleet wharf]

the bugs piss me off to no end

[warm marlin]

also if i get the pull down in p1

the second pull down

i cant flag artoshion anymore because its so delayed

[fleet wharf]

surely more gear will fix the problem

kek

[warm marlin]

it will when other people start pushing psychopath early

also we have a healer rerolling to hpal soon

2x autumn surely solves it

[fallow nimbus]

I had no autumn and used cds on all platforms, i was 10secs off on p3. I also fumbled prism but that's another story

Kill with a bunch of new people so we tried to push but it probably wasn't as fast as it could be

Soaking with heals doesn't help either

[warm marlin]

It was fine on prog

We aren’t holding dps anymore on reclear is why it’s cursed

Not physically possible to cd both plats and amp

Flag is like 20 seconds away

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah, once the new raidbuff hits the strat will always be hold on 1 platform

It will probably be platform 1 unless the raid pushes so fast that 2nd cd set is in danger

[warm marlin]

Once p3 is easy I will be flagging plat 1 and second add set plat 2

[fallow nimbus]

It's funny that i have 3 kills and like 30 tries max, on a position of a mage as melee and no autumn. I only now how awful that fight is

Like giga cursed on platforms

[dusk stone]

how good of a talent is improved shadow techniques and planned execution?

is it significantly better than finality, worse? is it about the same as veiltouched

[upbeat sorrel]

im 3500 io

[rustic mortar]

I can feel U … getting also dreclined with 3550 and 725 ilvl while my Hunter with 720 ist getting insta invites no matter the key lvl

[lilac stag]

It’s almost like this was predicted, again, before the start of the tier.

[sly shore]

if you don't hold damage specifically on platforms it's so scuffed

we were holding damage on sunday just cos of 1.5mins

going forward it's probably a hold cd's on platform 2 angle

[fathom adder]

hold on plattform one means just do dances without blades?

and flag obv

[sly shore]

ye

[south kernel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[muted kindle]

on myth araz do we delay flag/blades?

the first set anyways

[worldly remnant]

Yes, send it after 20secs or so

[wheat elk]

if you upgrade a hero boots to 714 or 717, will the effectiveness go up to 50%?

since itll convert ito a myt track item?

[alpine wraith]

no

[upbeat sorrel]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[azure thicket]

im 481st best sub rogue in region

dire times indeed

[ivory vigil]

I'm #1 for assa rogues at 697-699 ilvl in 11.2.5

logs are meaningless

[rigid sparrow]

Hey guys! Is there any simple wa for the double on use trinkets, in order to know which one i used last time to no be confused?

[ivory vigil]

prism+araz? jus track your prism stacks

[karmic harbor]

doing my part and inviting any sub rogue i see on my alt keys

[dusty totem]

Well there are probably no good rogues who are still 697-699 and when they where 697-699 they did not have the additional raid dmg from renown

[fossil forge]

#real

[radiant swift]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[warm goblet]

Hey, is wowanalyzer a decent tool to get a quick overview of what could be wrong about my rotation?

Not looking to go super in-depth, just trying to get a grasp of it

[warm goblet]

is it optimized for current sub iteration* is what I'm trying to ask actually

[azure thicket]

it was out of date last season afair

[signal tartan]

Still is, tried it yesterday

[warm goblet]

Aight, thanks

[short radish]

if you go onto the spec page

it will tell you how up to date it is

[warm goblet]

Oh, awesome, didn't know

Thank you

[karmic harbor]

warcraftlogs randomyl dying during the day is tilting me

[limpid sage]

You’re kinda looking at the most useless case of logs though - ilvl parses have always been a joke at certain intervals

[leaden prairie]

maybe its the night for the m!

[fossil forge]

Any audiofreak in the chat

i need assist fixing my mic

[remote eagle]

did they fix pre disorienting? i swear it doesnt work half the time in dungeons

[hazy breach]

Changing zones bricks it

So you must do it inside the dungeon

[glad rampart]

i was thinking a different aoe opener to use rotten more effectively any idea's?

i feel like using first sectech without rotten spread is dps loss

[vale pine]

symbols-storm-dance

would be an idea

[warm marlin]

Fair warning to those who haven’t noticed yet: you can lose damage to Akaari in p1 dimmy

I guess I walked 100m away from my logger on other side

[steel zinc]

Just be the logger

[warm marlin]

I always do as a backup I just had to upload my own which is annoying

[vale pine]

can just log yourself

[wild hornet]

true and real

not a true logger if you dont log

[warm marlin]

I am aware of the bug and how it works and always log myself as a backup, I just know some others don’t and I didn’t know you could hit the 100m mark on dimmy

[wild hornet]

oh its actually pretty easy

and kinda unfortunate