subtlety

[wet robin]

yeah this is purely a test of the core rotation

I was making a lot of core mistakes

uptime/positioning/mechanics etc. obviously shift that tremendously

[wet echo]

imo, dummy hitting is great for building muscle memory

[wet robin]

but want something to rebuild from

yeah exactly

[wet echo]

but the numbers on a dummy don't tell much

[wet robin]

Also is it normal for SB to fade before your second SD is finished?

[wet echo]

once you get a good hang of CD usage, you'll catch yourself making mistakes and you won't need to look at the meter to know how well you're playing

[wet echo]

yes

[wet robin]

ok phew haha

[wet echo]

first 2 dances are 12 and 8 sec

assuming you use SB 1-2 sec into your first dance, and that you chain dances, it leaves ~17-19 sec total duration of dance after pressing SB which lasts 16 sec

[limpid sage]

should align perfectly with flag though

last dance that is

[wet echo]

approximately, yea

it's flag-rupture-dance(12 sec)-maybe 1 gcd between dances-dance(8 sec)

which is 23 sec total

or 22 if you chain dances

[limpid sage]

ig the long opener is actually worse

with first dance

because you miss out on the extra seconds of overlapping dance + flag

with long opener I mean the one where you spread ruptures for a few sec

[short moss]

does this look about right for breakdown or am i going wrong somewhere? I feel like my damage is lacking a bit at certain points but think i might be fucking up the windows in between blades

[karmic harbor]

my most common mistake is pressing cb + sectec before gcd is over and spamming evis before it goes off

[karmic harbor]

what key level is this?

[willow mantle]

wheres eviscerate/coup

[karmic harbor]

nimble flurry also looks really low

so im assuming youre using storm in dance

[wet echo]

no strike, no evis no coup :

[short moss]

this was a +8

[wet echo]

that changes nothing, you still strike in dance and use coup whenever available

[short moss]

i'll keep an eye on it thank you! How far up should they be?

[short moss]

yeah i think your right deffo keep accidentally pressing it i think

[karmic harbor]

This was my 16 priory yesterday

but if you post a log ppl can help u easier

[unborn vault]

do we play fatebound now?

[vale pine]

we do

[unborn vault]

better in aoe?m+?

[vale pine]

well

i think you are in the wrong channel

i thought of trickster

we play trickster because its better for cooldown management, burst and cleave

outlaw plays fatebound

assassination fatebound or deathstalker, depending on boss or content

but its better to ask in the specific channel

[unborn vault]

oh shit yes

[vale pine]

if you want to know about midnight:
#midnight-assassination
#midnight-outlaw
#midnight-subtlety

[icy pasture]

Hi, I'm looking for tips on how to improve my single target DPS since I'm just starting M raid and I feel like I'm not hitting enough on the first bosses.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tLv79ndTCJb6A8Bw?fight=6&type=damage-done (crowshiv)

[tidal marsh]

Second CDs were just a mess

Third CDs you only used one set of Dance + Symbols

You're not banking enough in-between CDs

3:18 you also spent Cold Blood on an Eviscerate instead of SecTech

[icy pasture]

Thx!

[fleet acorn]

Black powder should be very low on your breakdown ure a sub rogue ur Job is nuking down the Prio targets

[shy scarab]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[minor sorrel]

all you guys seem to be pressing black powder more than me maby i should try and adjust

[hazy breach]

Yeah in BFA that was the case

Its like 5% more prio for 5% less overall

to use evis instead of bp

[minor sorrel]

i basically mostly use BP outside of cds since i feel luckyy with coups

[ivory vigil]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[minor sorrel]

and deathknights blow up stuff pretty much alone anway by teh time you kill teh big bad

[karmic harbor]

Depends what group I'm in

[minor sorrel]

my friend plays frost

and we have a warri tank

[uneven scarab]

you can still get away with doing aoe with even a frost and warr

[karmic harbor]

Only times I press evis over bp in keys is like architect in floodgate and sentinel in ecodome but idk if that's optimal

[uneven scarab]

i play with a fury warr and a ele sham, still use bp quite often

[karmic harbor]

But 1 phasing architect is quite big

[minor sorrel]

thats why i specified i need to try and press it more it seems since all of you press it a bit more and im doing 14s and you guys are doing 16s ^^

[minor sorrel]

he can have more than one summon?

[karmic harbor]

Yes

[minor sorrel]

never noticed lol

tbf i havent playd streets in about 3 weeks

[karmic harbor]

Its the floodgate duder

That builds a platform

[swift tinsel]

scaffold man

[minor sorrel]

oh yea

[swift tinsel]

lil shitbag

[minor sorrel]

those can rebuild

[uneven scarab]

oh yeah i absolutely delete him on arcane usually, fuck those guys

[minor sorrel]

i thought you meant streets bosses

gambits endboss specifically

allso called grand architect

[uneven scarab]

gambit endboss is so’leah no?

[minor sorrel]

those scaffolding guys are nice when they dont get anotehr x mill hp yea

so'leah Grand Arcitect isnt it?

[uneven scarab]

ah yeah ig

plater shortens the name

[minor sorrel]

not mine but i made my own profile lol

[inland tangle]

I'm doing remix on a rogue and having an issue where I literally just cannot leave stealth. If I mount, the second the GCD is done, the game restealths and dismounts me.

Anyone else have this issue? I literally can't fly around or do many things.

[minor sorrel]

my cat form stealth works fine in remix

[swift tinsel]

servers are also inconsistent so could be part of that

[uneven scarab]

the save state of servers is giga messed up right now

may need to relog

[inland tangle]

Fuck it. I already have a rogue, I'm doing a pandaren rogue for the guild achieve and I'll just play a different toon for now.

I love rogue and it's super fun (even though I'm bad at it), but sometimes shit like this just really makes it ridiculous.

[hazy breach]

Pandaren male is based

[swift tinsel]

my literal spirit animal

[bleak night]

Panda is based

Finally heritage armor too

[inland tangle]

I love pandas. I main a pandaren Mistweaver, it's just the best of everything. I'm also excited for the midnight revamp that will make sub rogue easier to play (I don't know the class well enough to see the downsides clearly), but damn. I just wanna play.

[jagged adder]

does anyone know this? i cant seem to find this info

[hazy breach]

Coup can be sent at any cp

Since its technically +5 its fine to send on whatever

As even a 1 cp coup is 6 cp

[jagged adder]

ok so better to get it in a dance than outside one?

[uneven scarab]

yeah youd much rather fit it in dance

With all your amps

if you can

Even at low cp

[jagged adder]

ok good comms tyvm

ive been dropping the dance and sending with higher cps outside

[uneven scarab]

dance got like a ton of amps on it so you wanna fit in as much as you can

[jagged adder]

i also feel like im having issues sending a builder in CDs like right as i get shadowcraft and it wastes the free cps. is this a common issue?

or should i just chill if i see im at 6 shadow techniques stacks?

[uneven scarab]

just gotta get used to reacting to the cp income, i still send a builder on accident every now and then

[jagged adder]

ye its not too often but every once in a while and it feels terrible

all good

[uneven scarab]

yeah, havin a clear tracker for ShT would probably help but i just vibe it most of the time

[jagged adder]

yeah i have a nice tracker that plays a sound when i hit 7 stacks but sometimes ill hit those 7 stacks like literally as my finger is pressing the bind for a builder and then it wastes them. maybe having it glow at 6 stacks instead of 7 may be wise

[warm marlin]

It’s because of coup

[uneven scarab]

yeah, i have a sfx for the refund as well

Oh is the coup delay?

Would make sense

[warm marlin]

Coup can late refund because each hit will refund

[uneven scarab]

Yeah good point

[warm marlin]

So if you proc sht late into it

It can refund you like 0.25s before your gcd ends

[jagged adder]

ohh

that might be it then

ty for the insight

[sweet turret]

do you guys maybe have the point, where do you get no cd reduction on unseen blade with auto attacks?

i just dont get any more procs

when I start the pull, normally i can doulbe coup rifgght after sec tec
but in some pulls, i just dont get the 4 unseen procs off, it just wont happen

until i press sec tec again

[hazy breach]

Yeah that can happen if you get unlucky

unless you do #2

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[sweet turret]

that helps with procs?

[sweet turret]

how do i do that in raid?

[warm marlin]

"you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe"

it persists through death just dont press backstab before next pull

[sweet turret]

okay

im kinda tilted when this happens

[night sparrow]

Is it okay to cast ShuriStorm as the first filler when dancing to avoid unintended unseen blade proc ?

out of 1mn30

[minor sorrel]

usually no

first filler should be backstab as shuri doesnt trigger unseen blade

and you want your coups inside dance

and assuming u dance youll allso tech

so if you enter with full points => tech => shuri storm woudl eb an absolute nono

I guess i missread your entire comment Abda. Assuming you enter with coup ready i can see it making sense.

if you enter with low points /0 youll want to take advantage of Shrouded in darkness .. so allso backstab, keep stacking that swet % dmg even in ae there is value in prioretizing it.

avoiding an unseen blade triger only really works in between coups ( we even hould coup outside cds so we dont seem to want to per se get them all . we just want as many as possible in cds, In aoe the situation is less stringent, where spreading Find weakness has value. )

[sour granite]

Hey everyone, a question:
On Araz, does cloak remove the Astral Mark debuff so that you can soak again? Or does cloak only immune the damage itself?

[runic trail]

If you cloak with less than one second before the hit, you can get rid of both.

[minor sorrel]

it can remove the mark but it has very wierd timing.

[sour granite]

OK, interesting. Thanks!

[runic trail]

I think it's like....

Cloak with more than 1 second before the soak: No damage, get the mark.
Cloak with less than 1 second before: Get neither.
Cloak after the soak: Damage but you clear the mark

I may be wrong

[uneven scarab]

the first second of cloak is full immunity

[runic trail]

But that's my understanding of it

[uneven scarab]

the seconds after that just prevent applications

[errant pagoda]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vale pine]

find the problem (lemix)

(why is the icon assassination)

[supple verge]

And why is the class tree on the left and the spec tree on the right

It always reads like last name first name

Rogue, Subtlety

[north schooner]

what if you are reading right to left?

[plush roost]

The talent trees are legal paperwork so you need to do surname, given name

Is what it is

[lilac stag]

helping new players not make a stupid mistake like the rest of us

[hazy vigil]

on soul hunters, do we rupture all bosses all the time or only when we're not in CD

[lost dirge]

Guys pls help me for aoe dmg ..

+13 key my aoe too bad

[slate lantern]

send a log

[lost dirge]

how

[shadow lance]

Like, log and send the link of it?

[shrewd reef]

what should i take? i have hero prism and hero forge and still D.I.S.C. Belt

[scenic plover]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[karmic harbor]

installed my new cpu, dornogal fps from 30 to 130

[hazy breach]

W

[chrome palm]

Antenna 100%

[lethal gale]

Are you guys gearing more towards crit on crafted items at all? my sims still want so much crit over vers

[shrewd lantern]

trust whatever your sim says

i only have 2 crafted items

[slate lantern]

X3D?

[karmic harbor]

9800x3d yea

[tulip folio]

anyone have mcaro for cold blood secret tech

i try to create one but its not working for some reason

[karmic harbor]

were you just playing assassination

[tulip folio]

ye

[karmic harbor]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[tulip folio]

AHH

classic

😄

[lost dirge]

guys when i use blackpowder for aoe ? my opener ss-flag-rupture-shadow dance - backstab-sod-shadow blade(trinket pot) secret tech and spam ss -eviscrate 5+ target i spam shuriken blackpowder but my dps low

[karmic harbor]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[high burrow]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[slate lantern]

In stealth you always use shadowstrike even in aoe besides the specific reasons above^

But again hard to tell what's going wrong without a log

[lost dirge]

Is it okay if I record this on a dummy?

[upper cosmos]

does cheat work on nexus? I'm seeing 50/50 usage on archon which makes me think not

[karmic harbor]

that fight you only really die in p1

and cheat is useless in p1

[upper cosmos]

elusiveness it is

[meager coyote]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[meager coyote]

any chance the sheet gets updated?

[quaint verge]

Does anyone have coup not proc on first set of CDs? just sometimes doesn't proc even after 4 unseen.

[karmic harbor]

haven't heard of that happening, are you wasting procs while tier set buff is active?

maybe post a log or smn

[alpine wraith]

you can get no double unseens on first dance and not proc yes

we call that never lucky rubber ducky

[gritty zenith]

is it ok if i create a 1 button macro for shadow dance, symbols and tea??

[sullen hare]

Dance and tea is permissible but you want to have a separate keybind for symbols

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[gritty zenith]

ty

[swift tinsel]

do I go sin again for loom prog tonight

[hushed roost]

Is there like a timer guideline when you have 1 charge of dance + time on 2nd charge where you can pop dance and still have enough to enter flag/sb cd set a bit after i.e. when holding for the loomithar damage boost

[hazy breach]

You need 1 charge and ~35s left on your second charge when you flag

But it takes roughly 30s to get back your dance if you send it

[lilac stag]

Let the saladbar prog begin!

[hoary lotus]

how much does autumn refund flag

and blades

[hazy breach]

Autumn is -10s

Over 30 seconds

[lilac stag]

10 seconds

[hoary lotus]

okay, when should I get it for nexusking

[hazy breach]

The first one

At like 45 or whatever, whenever its ready

[hoary lotus]

anyone more important than sub for autumn?

[warm marlin]

fdk can kind of use it the same way we can

usually it goes to sub instead though

[lilac stag]

ez solution, just don’t have a holy pali

[tall girder]

Or just beg that usually works too

[hoary lotus]

he's using it on himself

[lilac stag]

bold move cotton

[crystal atlas]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[cedar willow]

turns out if you want to parse on nexus king, you have to be on same platform as the person who logs lel

[left surge]

Just do your own mate

[maiden oar]

yeah i started automatically logging bc of this

[left surge]

omfg, lightbulb. Explains why my timings are out on lorrgs lol

[maiden oar]

we love simplecombatlogger addon

[olive jacinth]

!coup

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[karmic harbor]

if you use mrt there should be a setting you can switch on that does it too

[maiden oar]

yea

i just have the addon because warcraftrecorder asked me to

[dusk stone]

man thats so aids

i spend last 2 weeks desperately trying to carry priory 15

and on night where i half ass it i get carried through one lmao

[muted kindle]

Is there anything easy/common to mess up on with sub that i should watch out for?

[runic trail]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[dusk stone]

show us a log we may be able to help out more

[runic trail]

Main things are make sure your CD window is as close to perfect as you can get and don't overspend cooldowns before your next CD set

[muted kindle]

!log

[shy scarab]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[last gate]

!log

[void ocean]

so what do u guys think about the last burst window on the Soul Hunters, yay or nay for clipped one?

cause the 3rd Meta starts ~6.15

[shadow lance]

Get autumn and send before

[void ocean]

I somehow still have no idea what autumn does 😄

[shadow lance]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=328622/blessing-of-autumn

You cd reset 30% faster during 30 seconds

[void ocean]

aye

[shadow lance]

So you basically win 10 sec

[void ocean]

not sure about prio order for that buff

[shadow lance]

Wdym?

Spec prio?

[void ocean]

yea

[shadow lance]

We kinda big cuz it gives a lot of good damages timing

And we only do cd's damages so being able to align our cd's with good timing is prolly the best use of it

But, it's from my poor experience, I don't know if there's some sim/tc ofor the raw dps gain of it

[void ocean]

tho that could also go to the healer

[short radish]

typically brings a cooler change in weather as the summer heat dies down. Some leaves will also change color to golden brown before falling from the tree.

[shadow lance]

Unless you're not assigning CD's I don't see the value

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-excited-to-see-you-cant-wait-ace-ventura-funny-mouthing-gif-14432916

[shadow lance]

Most of time, healers cd's a timed for specific mechanics, so healers have to sit on it for a moment

[void ocean]

heh

sit on it 😄

[shadow lance]

They rarely press it on cd's I mean

Unless I read my raid plan like a fool

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-days-sit-on-it-potsie-gif-14269751

[shadow lance]

that's what I say to my gf

barely works

[fossil forge]

After playing around with and without autumn it doesnt matter tbh

It is nice If you have a hpal though

(Let me cope our hpal is benched)

[bronze karma]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lilac stag]

@void ocean when I was still on rogue I was sending before. Once you are close to kill you likely only have 1-2 low health targets

Which you can just unload whatever CDs you have left at that point

[void ocean]

aye

im suspecting intermissions r just backstab & survive?

no dances or anything

[shadow lance]

yep

[void ocean]

stacking ShT

cool, tnx

[visual lark]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[tulip wharf]

I know it’s not optimal but if you’re macroing cold blood into secret tech, could you send your 2nd secret tech right after the 2nd SoD?

[tame stratus]

yes, but I think the picture is slightly outdated for current talents and tier set anyway

[clever idol]

guys pls how many target to use evis or black powder ?

[wet echo]

4+ for BP

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[ripe wave]

wasn't there something with flawless form ? I use to evi when flawless form is active, black powder when not (and coup always when ready)

[warm marlin]

They buffed BP and new tier means you basically always have flawless form, so the target count calculation assumes it’s up. Technically you wouldn’t evis at 2-3 targets if it wasn’t up but rule doesn’t say it for brevity

[ripe wave]

Ok, got it. Thank you

[long storm]

Which one should i get, i simmed them lily simmed 11k more at 730 while forge was 11k less, is the apl correct or should i just pick forge and cry that i didnt kill 1 more boss for full hc vault

[flint parrot]

i would take lily

[crystal bone]

if ur not in any rush, i'd take a socket

dinar in 2 weeks

a socket for me was 17k dps

[karmic harbor]

progged to dimensius with a mythic lily its fine

but i agree with malarki a socket might be the play

[void ocean]

yea, my last vault was socket too... killed fractilus, first time this season has 2 mythic slots in raid vault, barely slept the entire night, with so many possibilities...

least to say i was very disappointed 😄

[lilac pendant]

magic belt still good on us?

sims better than my heroic belts

[void ocean]

try latest sims

[lilac pendant]

Do i have to enable soemthing for that?

[void ocean]

no, just choose latest instead of weekly or nightly

[lilac pendant]

ty

[void ocean]

np

damn I should've said "de Nada" 😛

[mental jetty]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[plucky mesa]

this 100 parse clearly means im the best one here right?

[vale pine]

nicuuu

best sub rogue

[plucky mesa]

lol i was joking, thats for ilvl i killed mythic loomy at 709

[sullen hare]

man so this is what it's like being in the presence of sub royalty

[upbeat sorrel]

i did mildly more damage than a bm hunter in a +17 thank you blizzard for the bm nerfs

[gloomy cradle]

does shadow strike and black powder have a chance to apply crippling?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Nimble flurry however does not

[upbeat sorrel]

can nimble flurr apply FW

[hazy breach]

No

[azure mauve]

thats a good idea actuall

[unkempt glacier]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[unborn canopy]

Damn there's something about not seeing sec tech's CD going down on finishers in whispyr's sub rogue latest vid that physically hurts me

[short radish]

Wtf theres a whispyr subrogue video

[fringe palm]

i love whispyr

[bleak night]

real

[remote eagle]

i felt bad for him while watching the video

[bleak night]

dont worry he's used to suffering

[lilac stag]

and it’s good

[last gate]

do we have restless blade thingy (i dont remembr the name) in midnight?

[alpine wraith]

no

[last gate]

lol

[hazy breach]

Shadow blades?

Idk what you mean but for midnight stuff #midnight-subtlety

[last gate]

i mean that passive ability that let us get cdr while spending cp

[shrewd lantern]

@tepid trellis do you think its worth playing replicating finality for nk

or better just PE

[tepid trellis]

I played rep+final

[alpine wraith]

it helps on the intermissions with dragon+boi

and the platform with adds

PE does not add enough dmg to be better overall

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah what i was thinking though logs are split

[lilac pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-laughing-scary-weird-big-mouth-gif-16287677

[brisk raptor]

anyone playing sub in legion remix? if so, is it any good?

[turbid fjord]

I've been leveling as sub and so far it's been kind of meh

[flint parrot]

assa way more better

rockin this build rn

with 70% haste and 170% mastery sanguine blades hitting like a truck

thinking of dropping vv for shrouded suffocation

[tidal coral]

is there a reason sub is particularly disgusting in dawn

i just +3d a dawn with a sub player that did 9.5m overall

in a pug

[shrewd lantern]

Not really its just decent target count

[quaint lodge]

Yes

The first dance has basically guarenteed procs on every pull

and every pull has great prio target and lots of ways to pull funnel

[shrewd lantern]

almost no one logs their runs though

only log above 9.5 is anythng's XD

well kush had 9.4 pre turbo

[quaint lodge]

🤓

[shrewd lantern]

lowk half the time you wont get tfd on many of the pulls

because you got tanks who do bad chains even without brand

[vestal cedar]

I might be super blind, but I can't seem to find out what it actually does; what does ignoring armour mean for PvE? Like, is it just a flat damage buff or is it doing something more/different?

[dusk stone]

Tfd?

[round latch]

the first dance

[tribal blade]

anyone playing remix

[round latch]

in a couple of days ill start,but cant now,working overtime 🙁

[tribal blade]

noooooo

[shy scarab]

you lvling with this build?

no sudden demise executing mobs after 1 garrot? smh smh smh

[lilac stag]

[wary gate]

what's wrong with macro? Sometimes trinket works, sometimes it doesnt

[lilac stag]

You’re casting mid gcd

So trinket may not fire off

would be my guess

[wary gate]

ffs

[last gate]

play default bleed tho

😄

[fallow nimbus]

But the trinkets we use aren't on the gcd

[fallow nimbus]

What trinkets do you use?

[wary gate]

lily. dont have araz yet

[fallow nimbus]

Lily should always work regardless of gcd

Make sure both are ready because you can queue blades I think

[wary gate]

i press this macro and only blades goes on cd

[fallow nimbus]

Is lily in the top slot?

[wary gate]

yep

[fallow nimbus]

Is the macro on your bars?

[wary gate]

yep

[fallow nimbus]

Put it in again

[wary gate]

kk i will try after lunch again

thank you

[wary gate]

it worked

i've removed it and put it back again

now it's triggering lily

[wary gate]

ok

i don't know how to explain it @fallow nimbus but if i go in dung

it doesnt' work

if i do it in DORN our world it does

wtf is this shit, i'm losing my mind

[elder pebble]

Question for sub, lets say after 2nd dance you get your coup proc and you dont have secrett tech for 3rd dance, do you send like coup -> secret tech -> coup? or do you black powder and shit until you can start with secrett tech?

Or third alternative which is coup coup secret tech

[lilac stag]

Is it on your stealth bar?

[wary gate]

yes it is

and also on the "visible one"

i tried in raid also

doesn't work

but if i'm outside a dung/raid it does

[lilac stag]

disable addons.

Try again

[wary gate]

could be this?

[lilac stag]

Elvui is shit so likely

[wary gate]

i've disable it, i will try now a boss

it worked

it was elvui

fucking hell

[turbid fjord]

what constitutes playing sub really well :o

[lilac stag]

do dmg. Don’t make mistakes.

[turbid fjord]

what are the mistakes you see often! that's what I meant

[karmic harbor]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[turbid fjord]

tyvm

[granite river]

anybody got a link for a high key Ara Kara vod, sub rogue pov

[tepid trellis]

casualaddicted probably has one on his youtube

[granite river]

all of them are sin rogue 🙁

theres some vods that come up in yt search but, not what i need tbh

[tepid trellis]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2587107146
sift through this guys vods then, maybne you find one

[granite river]

thanks bruv

literally first vod, first key

[hollow forum]

Stealthi need the rolling combat text import 🙏

[tepid trellis]

oh fuck true

[willow mantle]

can anyone explain @ this timstamp why he's using shuriken storm outside of blades and on single target between coup casts?

https://youtu.be/Q6cJ4FfF0MA?si=KIMufYGoAmgABL9X&t=378

[tepid trellis]

he feely craftin

[willow mantle]

he does it consistently tho

like he consistently hits shuriken storm outside blades window between coup casts

and i dont understand why

[tepid trellis]

well its for the same reason you would do it inside of blades

from that clip he uses the premed buff on a storm between the 2 coups, but its kinda w/e since he doesent have disorienting strikes primed for the 2x free unseen blade procs

[mighty citrus]

whisp video is so funny: "why is everything desynced"

[carmine portal]

I'm boutta shoot myself man, I am finding it impossible to get into keys today compared to a few days ago, Wtf happened

Did some guide or video come out that put sub in bottom useless impossible to time tier

[vale pine]

haha ye

[vale pine]

remix

everyone plays remix

[carmine portal]

No it's like 3000 declines

Took me 40 minutes

Even for keys I've timed to warm-up,

[vital sage]

just a random question, for those that are simming yourself for mythic Dimensius, how are you guys simming yourselves? Patchwerk 5 mins?.. 8~10 mins?..

[boreal cloud]

hi, sorry if this has been talked about already but are there any remix specific builds anywhere? or just use the retail builds and its all good

[vale pine]

can just use the retail ones

rotten might be slightly better on remix

[carmine portal]

Do we know if Soul Hunter boots are gna be in the dinar-shop?

[tidal marsh]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/the-war-within/turbo-boost-dinar-event-overview#gear-vendors

[carmine portal]

tyvm

[plush roost]

Tbh theres not really anything to sim for, like its a patchwork fight for 2:30-3:30 in p3, an aoe prio fight for 1min twice and a patchwork light cleave fight in p1 for 2:20-3:10

Ideally u want to be best prepared for pargoth and p3, those are the harder parts

[carmine portal]

About to time my first 16 arakara and on last boss the ret paladin freedoms me out of pool bcus I called him out for not taking poison dispel

Kills both of us

key bricked

[lilac stag]

pretty sure they still have the talent that casts freedom on a second target. likely used it on himself

[carmine portal]

Yes but WHY is he using it during the suck?

And why doesn't he have poison dispel

Paladin players continue to be the literal worst I ever encounter

[lilac stag]

they're wondering why they invited a rogue

[carmine portal]

I just don't get why you want to play the easiest spec in the game and make it even easier by being an utter moron

[karmic harbor]

~17 is when you basically just have to do your own keys, pay to get into resi keys or reroll

gg

[carmine portal]

Yeah wont mention how long I waited to get into that key, pain

oh well

i will go on siege and doom instead

[valid vault]

does cloak not let you just walk through big momma sonic boom?

i pressed it and i got nuked

[cobalt vector]

Ye u need to just let her cast and insta shadowstep her.

[fallen marsh]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[tidal marsh]

Yeh 'cause it's sonic damage innit

[unique lotus]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[valid vault]

i thought anything that wasn't physical damage was just magic not going to lie

[warm marlin]

sonic damage is a special type of physical that isnt reduced by armor

[wild hornet]

true damage in a nutshell

[shrewd lantern]

Low ilvl or io

[dusk stone]

Yeah i dont ever group with rets

Unless i see like 3.5k io

I was in a 16 fg, like 1 death until the double big guys before last boss with 8 mins remaining and tank dies :/

[lapis berry]

is there a weakaura that can guesstimate or "track" unseen blade stacks

[tepid trellis]

the stacks unseen blade gives is called escalating blades and is trackable

the internal cooldown of unseen blade procs, is however not

[sullen yarrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sullen yarrow]

whats yall dslice sim looks like?

[shrewd lantern]

like 9m pre turbo

[sullen yarrow]

i been waiting 1 hour for my sim

[shrewd lantern]

comparing a million items for minimal result

[sullen yarrow]

its worth still

[shrewd lantern]

all for 1k dps

[sullen yarrow]

i just got 300k dps increase 2 days ago with 2 sims

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4ck5xHgNdtqJdYxej3roYU

cool

[oak grotto]

Is it fine to send Crafter dagger on both weapons? I'm stuck using Crafted on main and Heroic on offhand

[sullen yarrow]

come here

it wanst 1k dps

D:

[uneven scarab]

i would probably craft something else and keep praying for a myth dagger in vault but idk ur situation

[oak grotto]

I've gotten one dagger in myth from vault since SL s3 so I've given up on that lmfao

[uneven scarab]

fair rofl, oh dps is just very minuscule

[lilac stag]

Crests better off on legs, chest trinkets most likely.

[uneven scarab]

so its usually the last thing u craft

[shrewd lantern]

bruh nado sims

[shrewd lantern]

Its the weakest slot

so overall not worth

[uneven scarab]

^

[oak grotto]

So it's better to fullsend like 8/8 mythpants instead of OH?

[uneven scarab]

100%

[oak grotto]

Same crests I reckon

[shrewd lantern]

Meanwhile i have 4 full sparks

btw

[lilac stag]

imagine if you could plug everything into a website and see what’s better upgrade options.

[shrewd lantern]

xddd

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/so-good-wink-smile-oh-yeah-its-true-gif-24163876

[oak grotto]

I did, and that website said OH is the best DPS, but the discord says it isnt

Which is why I ask

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-gif-797109095501667511

[shrewd lantern]

Idk maybe your offhand scuffed

[lilac stag]

user error most likely or you have a haste stat OH

[shrewd lantern]

i can finally send my 4 sparks when gilded is uncapped

should be fun

[oak grotto]

You see, this is why you turn to the discord and ask for opinions : D

[lilac stag]

I’m going to hate myself for this. Post your topgear sim.

[still depot]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[oak grotto]

How do I sim so I can include both crafted dagger and pants, without it showing I should have both the crafted dagger AND the pants?

[lilac stag]

Just post a top gear sim

[oak grotto]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vnQggnuUHZA2wdR1FvYD1y

[lilac stag]

I will help after this heroic

[oak grotto]

Cause it tells me to have the dagger and the pants both fully upgraded, so idk how to sim both but only showing one or the other

[uneven scarab]

Why is ur sim 1 min 30

Sim 5 minutes

[oak grotto]

I sim dungeonslice

I've been told to do it

[spice matrix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

How many guilded crests do you actually have?

[oak grotto]

105

[lilac stag]

then why give me a sim with 305

[oak grotto]

Because when I have

105

it says that I cant do that sim

[lilac stag]

Do just a top gear sim and change a single enchant and send that

holy batshit people trying to get around currency limits gonna be the death of me

[oak grotto]

I mean what do you wanna see bout my gear lol

[lilac stag]

What currency you have and what you actually have. Not this Frankenstein sim you sent

[oak grotto]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7uDL48i9fuye92V5iZj8Zz

Are you satisfied with that

[lilac stag]

Do you want help or not?

[celest night]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[oak grotto]

I asked if that sim was fine

[lilac stag]

how is 15 = to 105?

[oak grotto]

I mean it says I have 90

and 90 = 105 because I aws in a dungeonrun

[lilac stag]

15 is not 90

or 105

[oak grotto]

That is correct

[lilac stag]

i'm done

[oak grotto]

But the 90 I sent a pic of

is 90

[lilac stag]

you can't give me a fucking sim which is hilarious

i need your actual currency

and that seems to be an impossible ask

[oak grotto]

All I wanted to know was "How do I sim so I can include both crafted dagger and pants, without it showing I should have both the crafted dagger AND the pants?"

[lilac stag]

you cant because you dont have the currency for it. if you have 105 its all going to the pants. or it's all going to both daggers since its going to spend everything it can. which is why you need real currency numbers.

[oak grotto]

So how do you sim that to see what is the priority in a case like this?

[karmic harbor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/gear @oak grotto

[lilac stag]

so instead of just doing /simc you're messing with shit and it's not allowing you to actually see what to send vs waiting til you have more crests avail

[jagged adder]

Just run 2 separate sims or?

[jade oasis]

i have so much vers xd

[lilac stag]

you dont use gear compare, it's deprciated and does not work correctly

[karmic harbor]

how does it not work correctly

[lilac stag]

issues with raidbots and creating items / all the other warnings

theyre still be bypassing currency they dont have in this case

so it tells them nothing if they are trying to send upgrades now vs waiting for crest cap to go up by 90

[dusk stone]

I think i have 26% vers myself

[oak grotto]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u5Usdkw7ruvKkgTvDgtPCn Does this look correctly done now?

[lilac stag]

did you add a second crafted dagger?

[oak grotto]

I have one crafted now and one in hero in my offhand, so one of the crafted daggers would be the 720 one I crafted very early in the beginning

[lilac stag]

type /simc run top gear, change nothing but a single enchant.

i dont know how to make that any more clear

[tame terrace]

for king i save prism for titan right

[alpine wraith]

no you prism at 1:30 then on amp

[tame terrace]

with forge + prism?

ah i guess so

[tepid trellis]

Prism on platform is for parsing

[graceful rock]

anyone have a coup GCD bar weak aura?

[alpine wraith]

with forge+prism you forge platform anyway

[tame terrace]

bet

[swift tinsel]

RL just announced we’re done raiding at the end of the month so I have even less incentive to be any more active than raid-logging

[broken shoal]

is this easir to obtain in remix?

[swift tinsel]

If they up the chance to get it in lemix

Iirc it was a random chance from the Lei Shen vault encounter thing

[lilac stag]

Or find a better guild and go after CE

[swift tinsel]

Idk the season kinda went disappointingly and basically killed my motivation to want to push

[bleak night]

real

[tame terrace]

first dance or weaponmaster

[lilac stag]

Never WM

[plush roost]

:(((

[tall girder]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[hallow night]

I dropped this since I have unlimited energy in legion remix. Is weapon master or 1 point finality more dps instead?

I think finality is better since I'm mostly spamming finishers.

[mint moon]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

not me catching up on all of what i missed today reading it like

[onyx mulch]

embellishments?

[clever lintel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[cursive vapor]

Should be exactly the same as in retail

[hollow spear]

Because you've cleared mythic or because he/the guild doesn't feel like raiding any longer?

[hollow vessel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hollow vessel]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[analog granite]

Damn is energy not a thing in remix? Might roll a rogue then

Is it because of the haste?

[short radish]

johnathan dimensions down

killed 10 seconds before my 18 stack flag :<

[runic trail]

American date system. Disgusting.

[short radish]

you can change it?

[runic trail]

I dunno

[short radish]

i thought it just defaulted to that

since it is an american game

[runic trail]

But canonically you got CE on the 10th December

[short radish]

damn we're so washed

[runic trail]

...which is sooner than I'll get it probably

[short radish]

how's prog?

[runic trail]

Saladhar at the moment

[short radish]

hows ghosts

[runic trail]

Not the worst thing

I hate tornadoes though

[short radish]

just cloak the first soak always

[runic trail]

Yeah we're bad at baiting them so its a bit sketchy

But we've also not had a massive amount of time on the boss. Reclear on Wednesday was scuffed due to the servers shitting themselves

So no saladbar time

[short radish]

when you reckon you start extending?

after salad?

[runic trail]

Next week is the last reclear

[hollow spear]

How are you using defensives in p3 on saladbar?

And I still hate ghosts

They're the bane of my existence

[runic trail]

I'll let you know when we get there

[short radish]

[hollow spear]

I understood that you as more of a one

In like how does one use defensives there

Are we cloaking lines or are we cloaking the star drop

[limpid sage]

why

because beams are annoying?

[karmic harbor]

feint is enough for both

[lilac stag]

Gz

[short radish]

yeah

if you get the early soak

you can get kinda fucked because youre in cds there

and people are kinda stupid and bait first soak badly

so i think the best use of cloak for prog is just sending it there

for consistencies sake

you have feint+evasion as DR for anything else

and the only othe reason you need cloak

is if you miss a ghost on 1 or 2

and need to soak with the tank

[hollow spear]

I also like to cloak the puddles in p2

[plush roost]

P1: cloak first, feint 2nd with raidwide cd, feint evasion 3rd (i play elusive) feint banishments
Intermission platforms: cloak dashes for uptime hehe
P2 burn: feint if healers struggle
P3: feint each jump swing even if untargetted, cloak starkillers, stay away from spawnbaits otherwise

[limpid sage]

makes sense. Only been on 1 prog night for saladbar so far so I’ll try it tonight ig

[short radish]

remember if you can ignore a mechanic for more dps with cloak - you should

unless cloaks assigned

[karmic harbor]

i never get in the 1st soak if its early

but my guild takes soak out to narnia

[hollow spear]

Same, always missing at least one global

Might have to resort to focus stepping at the last second

[short radish]

thats why i just cloak

cbf thinking when doing burst

[hollow spear]

Yeah, but the problem is that you still have to be in soak

Cloak or not

[wet echo]

there's no such thing as a defensive CD, only offensive CDs

[wheat sentinel]

So I couldn't log in last few days, how's the verdict on remix rogue? >.>

[hollow vessel]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[short radish]

yeah but this way you can stand wherever you want in soak without worrying about positioning

[swift tinsel]

We’re 2/8 and still progging loom with tons of people playing Hardcore Anniversary and it just kinda feels like no one wants to keep going atm so he’s calling it

[topaz agate]

in aoe what should my first global be after flag

[tepid trellis]

same as it is on single target, rupture if you need to refresh it (or havent spread yet) if not then just straight into dance+sectech

[topaz agate]

kk thank you

[lilac stag]

hmm assa has top logs for king and dimey now

[graceful osprey]

It’s over, pack it up

[lilac stag]

[steel zinc]

yeah because the adds just flop

idk why they nerfed the small adds hp

they die anyways

[lilac stag]

i'm curious if that will be the case for us, we just started king. our rogue is def stronger on assa

[plush roost]

Assa has to basically pray they get the cdr bug on nexus

Very annoying

I fiddled with it on reclear this week and dm was late for platforms and dragon

Since platforms go so fast

[tepid trellis]

think my saladbar is higher than the assa one

just that its not public xD

nvm

not the 9.2m one

[tepid trellis]

just get autumn

dont need the bug

[lilac stag]

the 9.2 i wonder if that was crafting exploit

[tepid trellis]

he does have like 5 ilvls on me when i did 8.9

[lilac stag]

there's a high arms parse on Fract, also private so it's irritating to see what doing what

[plush roost]

Our hpal brought his rdruid 🙁

[shrewd lantern]

anything that isnt a tank is worthless

[warm marlin]

Our mw is mainswapping to hpal

We are so back

[lilac stag]

just in time for outlaw reclears?

[fathom adder]

what exactly makes sub that good/better than other specs on nexusking and dimensius? I guess just the dmg amp at king and dmg amp + burst on the plattform adds with prism/forge? Or is there anything else i do not see

[lilac stag]

platforms

king you have an amp

[fathom adder]

ty

[warm marlin]

mhm yes for sure

[bright elk]

Why does assa need the cdr bug on king, shouldn’t the timings be the same as sub on their 1:30 cds?

[lilac stag]

Sub “needs” ~10 as well we just don’t have a bug

[fleet acorn]

is the waist now bad ?

or still around same ilvl bis?

[lilac stag]

It’s been mid for awhile. Now it’s bad.

[wispy crystal]

for Araz, do we save CDs for the amp phase?
feels like on the pylons im just auto attacking (Mythic)
or maybe just shadowdance, but hold blades/flag

[north schooner]

for pylons only plain dances yes

[lilac stag]

you can just backstab depending on how your groups are set

[wispy crystal]

ok got it, then during the amp phase, do we still strictly follow the rotation.

Or should i send cold blood on the very first sTec?
Or just stick as per normal rotation, and cold blood on 2nd sTec.
though the amp may have fallen off by then

[wild hornet]

you can fit your cb sectec if you send above id say 5 seconds of the amp phase starting

like if the last pylon is i.e. 2% health i find it free to walk towards boss cause youll surely have enough people hitting that last 2%

[wispy crystal]

AHH I see. So I can start my blades/flag at about 5seconds before amp starts ?

But the first sTec we wait for amp before popping it?

Just concerned it may not have enough CDR in time for the second sTec, and the amp phase ends

[wild hornet]

i kinda send my first sectec before cause theres usually 2 extra adds

[wispy crystal]

Ah cool. Let me do that, so I have the fully buffed flag for the amp phase

For the first add spawn in Mythic Araz. Do we just hold our first sTec as they spawn?

Or should we use flag/blades earlier so our second sTec lines up nicely just as the adds come out?

Usually the first add spawn dies so quick

[north schooner]

it takes a few seconds between the boss being active and the damage amp becoming active. As long as you step on the boss immediately you can send CB on the second sectec and it will be amped. more specifically I can see my flag going on araz 7s before the amp gets applied so there is plenty of time

[mystic ether]

What's the rule when you have 6+ combo points and shadow dance, symbols of death & sectec are ready? Press shadow dance, SoD and Sectec? Or just spedn the 6+ combo points first? If I do the first one, do I still backstab as a first combo point builder in shadow dance?

ST set-up

[north schooner]

just send as is and then backstab as first builder yes

[granite river]

still backstab for sure

you could probably play it differently depending if you have coup ready

[sweet turret]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[tepid trellis]

you start it so you 1st sectech lands the same second the amp starts

then you can fit in 2x sectech on the amp

[iron fjord]

yo guys
good idle game to play during saladbar prison?

numbers go up truly one of the video game genres yk

[left ledge]

Tower Wizard

[quaint lodge]

balatro is peak

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[iron fjord]

right i haven't tried that yet

[iron fjord]

thanks thanks

[left ledge]

Balatro isn’t as idle imo

It is pretty easy to tab into though

[cloud rover]

Question to the Sub rogue that have Dimensius down, does it really add up with your CDs with Platform 1 / 2 and P3 start?

Or doesnt this work if you are an orb collector

[ripe flame]

I believe that if you dont literally zerg yourself asap to the platforms you can't align cds

[hazy breach]

If you do not have autumn you absolutely do not want to do an orb

Without autumn youre already 2-3 seconds late to the damage amp

So if you grab orb(s) then youre adding another 2 seconds or so

[warm marlin]

if you don't have autumn you have to play extremely clean and fly well to cast instantly every time and your raid has to hold dps perfectly

or else everything goes to shit

[cloud rover]

Well

[warm marlin]

doing an orb is certainly a death sentence

[cloud rover]

I ahve no Autmn and do orbs

[hazy breach]

[warm marlin]

🪦 indeed

either make someone else do your orb instead or accept that one of your flags will get inted/skipped

and pick the one that suits your raid best

[ripe flame]

🪦 🥀

rip

[cloud rover]

but im officer so ill make someone do my orb

🙂

[warm marlin]

W

[iron fjord]

yes exactly

[radiant swift]

how is the opener sequence ment to be: is it strictly about cold blood being with the 2 sectec and the whole sequence is always the 16 steps?

[tepid trellis]

coldblood always on 2nd sectech, sectech always supercharged

rest is sorta dynamic with combo point refunds

[radiant swift]

but how do i learn this then

[radiant swift]

ive now seen its under "optimazation" but the superchared thing which i asume you might be refering to this symbols pre pull thing is just that or is there more?

it says optimazation but does this then also mean not everytime there is 2 stec?

[hazy breach]

Supercharger refers to the talent named supercharger

[radiant swift]

so there is more to it then this: ?

[cloud rover]

So if i dont do orb, i still want Autumn right?

on second Platform?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tepid trellis]

setech just needs to be used 1st or 2nd finisher after pressing symbols, is basically what it is

[cloud rover]

Ok our Holy Pala is now back, so i can assign it in the sheet

We did 2 weeks without holy pala

[radiant swift]

ive just seen now there is a tab optimazation with bit more explaination to all the things - tbh just from the opener im not entirely sure how and why and what to do

[tepid trellis]

it looks confusing to begin with, but once you sit with it for a bit, it will all make sense

[radiant swift]

aight so reading and thinking trough with the guide will make me set ?

[tepid trellis]

bit of reading, then a bit of dummy hitting then read again

and it should sorta make sense

[radiant swift]

bet

[tepid trellis]

its quite specific the things we do and why

[radiant swift]

ty sir

[fathom adder]

any tips for first time nexusking progress?

that i might not get from the guide

[steel zinc]

you can even supercharge on demi

right before you fly

just press symbols

[radiant swift]

so i can supercharge always if i wont lose it for my big cd window?

[plucky mesa]

speaking of super charge, is it like outlaw where i gotta have the combo point land on the super charge to get a full finisher? or is it just if im on or past the super charge it counts as full?

[hazy breach]

Its not like that for any spec anymore

Its just, your next 2 finishers do more damage

[vale pine]

the first 2 points don't reset on pull so you can get 2 at the start of the fight

can do the same in dungeons

there isn't much more to it, its fairly simple

"just press before pull at any point"

[radiant swift]

alright

[keen hare]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[iron fjord]

banger game, thanks man

[left ledge]

Np np, pretty nice brain rot

[iron fjord]

idle games feel soothing and relaxing at the start tbh

but they tend to ramp up fast and become insane

[left ledge]

Yeah this one has some nice upgrades

It’s purple as well

[iron fjord]

lmao

sounds are crisp too

[vale pine]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[vast tusk]

hi guys, how many targets should there be to use black powder?

[tidal marsh]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[radiant swift]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vast tusk]

During Shadow Dance, why do we cast Shadowstrike instead of Shuriken Storm for all targets?

[limpid sage]

Deals more dmg despite the added cp from storm

[rigid sparrow]

!netherprism

!trinkets

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[heady summit]

Is Rogue subtlety performing badly in Legion Remix or is it just me?

[steel sierra]

It's been a slog for me so far

[heady summit]

Compared to other classes, I think the Subtlety Rogue is far behind, relying on versatility to scale damage.

[radiant swift]

is it similar played to the live version on lemix?

[covert anchor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lusty badger]

Hi, can someone help me understand why my damage seems low? I think my shadow dance windows look good but my damage isnt reflecting that. This is the latest log I have so you can see https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D37TnLwPxvHQgk2M?fight=last&type=summary&source=11

[lilac stag]

1. You’re playing Tea
2. You’re full sending on pull when it’s an add fight

[charred kestrel]

with 3 frost dks gotta get your cds n globals just right before they nuke the adds

[lilac stag]

You only have 7 gcds in your first dance

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lilac stag]

Too hard to look at the rest on mobile.

[charred kestrel]

You can look at lorrgs to see when others are using CDs in such on that fight.

[radiant swift]

why is the opener on !mistakes and the one in the guide diffrent?

due to procs?

[lilac stag]

It literally tells you in the second bullet point

[wispy crystal]

If I have Shadowdance ending in 1s, and a coup proc with only 4 combo points.

So I just send the 4 CP coup within the dance window?

Because dance gives 30% damage multiplier.

Though the guide said only use finishers at 6+ combo points

[radiant swift]

well shit

[karmic harbor]

Coup is +5 combo points

[radiant swift]

i did form that wrong tho

[daring loom]

Hello guys, just a question is that normal that on a dummies trying single target rotation im not able to put the second sectech after the second burst window inside both shadow dance and symbol but just symbol? otherwise if i delay the sectech and wait for the dance i wont have 2 charge of shadow dance during burst

[tribal blade]

anyone know why i have the red horsey but it says all auras up to date

nvm might be ok

can we nuke WAs already

[tall girder]

Real nuke weakauras

[fickle mason]

!BUG

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[fickle mason]

bug cold blood fixed?

[wispy crystal]

oh got it, so coup can be used at 5CP during dance

did i understand correctly?

[plucky mesa]

whats wrong with deathstalker sub rogue rn?

[short radish]

it exists

[graceful crown]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[plush roost]

Bro digging up posts from last month pog

[plush roost]

Class spec designed entirely around its burst that gets amplified by flawless form very quickly from trickster.

Ds just cannot compete, its designed around a more sustained damage profile and thats just not how sub works

[wispy crystal]

Are you guys playing rogue again in Legion Remix?

[chrome palm]

unfortunately

[maiden oar]

i leveled too many rogues because i was bored

so i have to play something else in remix

[timber basalt]

Im guessing the answer is just reps but any specific ways I should play to improve my interrupts in M+? Obviously between cooldowns Im chillin but during cds I find it hard to hit my mouseover/focus target kicks due to positioning so my kick will usually just hit the main target.

[shrewd lantern]

well why are you out of melee range

focus kick macro

[timber basalt]

like Im turned away from the caster Im focusing but Im in melee range of both my target and the caster kinda thing

its prob just mispositioning cuz I tend to move a lot

and also yea I have a focus/mouseover macro but I tried looking it up and it seems theres no way to prevent a regular kick going off if you are hitting the macro but the focused/mouseovered target cant be hit for whatever reason

[shrewd lantern]

focus kick should only kick that target

idk positioning issue it sounds like

[karmic harbor]

I meant it adds 5cp to your evis

[lilac stag]

Coup adds 5cp to your evicerate just by how it works. So we follow same finisher rules of 6+ meaning you just need 1 cp to send coup.

[wispy crystal]

oh so that is how i look at it 🤣

so basically can send coup on any CP during Shadow Dance.

BUT if Dance is about to expire, and I have to make a call.

1. Send Coup with 1 CP during Dance
2. Build to 5+CP and send Coup OUTSIDE of Dance

which option makes sense here?

[sullen yarrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Just send it.

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[wheat crypt]

Waht da hellll

Didnt know that jeez i was trolling last night

[limpid sage]

you send coup at any combo points available

[crystal oasis]

oh wtf, I thought that was only the 2nd part of coup

[hazy breach]

For the most part you end up at higher cps anyway, its not like you must hit it at 1 cp

[lilac stag]

fucking coupagedddon in here

[tidal jacinth]

hello guys 🙂 one question... i saw lot of different videos and timelines and i do not understand if in aoe is better to finish with powder or eviscerate/coup.. someone said if u have a prio target is better to go with eviscerate and build with shuriken. is it right? what's ur toughts?

[lilac stag]

BP 4+

Evis is such a small portion of the priority dmg it’s generally not worth it for the overall dmg loss.

We run our ST rotation during dance (with the BP finisher rule) and that’s where our priority dmg comes from.

[daring loom]

Guys is that normal that i can't manage to fit two sectech outside the burst? 😅

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[vale pine]

you usually can fit one secret per shadow dance

[daring loom]

I cant, beacuse the second dance came up 10/12 seconds later than the secret, and if i hold i wont have 2 dance for burst... i tried for hours yesterday on the dummy... only after the first burst i manage, after the second it start to be like this and i dont know how.. everytime line that I see the always put 2 secret in between

[vale pine]

you essentially play it like this

(flagellation is before blades/cooldowns)

so the opener is like 2x dance

the first dance has a secret cast

if you get rly lucky and get enough cdr on secret, you have a 2nd

but if you would cast it last gcd, you would just wait and use it in the 2nd dance

so you essentially have 2x dance back to back every 90 sec

then one dance with secret in between

and a 3rd time the sequence every 2nd 90 sec cycle

secret generates enough cdr to always alow that

[radiant swift]

is this somewhere in the guide?

[scenic plover]

@vale pine if i do dance and then secret + blades but somehow dance runs out without second secret being ready, do i just dance to keep it up during blades and use symbol + secret when ready?

[vale pine]

you only use one secret per dance

as mentioned

[vale pine]

the image i posted, i created it to contrast cooldown use in midnight, its not exactly that good for a guide as its not that easy to understand

this is essential a good explenation for cooldown maangement

dance/symbols/secret is always used together

[radiant swift]

mybe ive overseen it - but i asume this is for live

[vale pine]

oh no

the image is for live

but i created it to contrast it to midnight

[radiant swift]

i see

[vale pine]

ill show you, moment

[radiant swift]

so i do have 2 and every 2 cycle 3 dance/runes/stec inbetween big cds

is what its essentialy is

[vale pine]

this is how you would probably play it in midnight

[radiant swift]

that looks cursed

[vale pine]

thats the point of the image ^^

this does not look easier to understand

whats the entire point of midnight

[tepid trellis]

technically its 1 and 2 between cds, since you always use 2x with major cds

[radiant swift]

that is crazy

ive seen whispyrs video and "feeling whise" they didnt change that much

how did that abomination cometo life

[vale pine]

you alter between 1 and 2 between blades

[radiant swift]

i hardly believe u keep count

[vale pine]

you can

[radiant swift]

is there a easy way to remember where im at rn

[vale pine]

you see it in logs too