subtlety

[analog granite]

I'll enjoy the small optimizations once the spec clicks for me

[hazy breach]

Weve had too much fun it seems

[upbeat garden]

From 0 is really hard

[analog granite]

I did play sub during aberrus but I think that version of sub is a meme for how easy it was

[upbeat garden]

Took me 20 keys to do the rotation right

And another 20 to actually do damage

[analog granite]

Reading the SoD segment on wowhead hurts my brain

[upbeat garden]

[hazy breach]

Use it when sectech has 10 or less left of its cd

And flag isnt coming up soon (in like 25-30 seconds)

[analog granite]

Okay that seems a lot easier to remember

[stable rain]

hey guys, did a fractilus kill last night that pretty much mirrors cast for cast one of the top logs, however lags behind in coup de grace damage by a large margin. cant really get why that is. could someone more knowledgeable than i take a look?

[analog granite]

This kinda confuses me tho since we have 3 charges right so can't you use it for both sectec and flag? Apart from opener

[hazy breach]

You need 2 for every flag&blades

[alpine wraith]

dont try to compare to the top dog he got god rng

and yea his coups are insane for some reason

[stable rain]

so it is really rng dependant? thats what i thought

[upbeat garden]

People cheating

[stable rain]

kinda sucks

[upbeat garden]

haha

[alpine wraith]

sub is not super rng until you get the 4 coups in 1 dance kind of rng

with other procs

then you go ah

so this can happen

[stable rain]

like our cast numbers are almost one for one with all other abilities and the kill time is seconds different

and he had 1.5 mil on coup

and i had like 850k

[glad raven]

we will solve it together 😉

[topaz egret]

Sub is one of the more rng specs in the game currently

[glad raven]

daddy kush

[topaz egret]

Not as bad as dark ranger but pretty high variance still

[void ocean]

M'Lord

[alpine wraith]

sub has no super high variance if you do 100000 pulls

but we dont so not getting those extra coups on cds

is brutal

even more if kill time gets lower and lower

• there is a difference in using sec tech with 12 flawless or 27

and all the other bs that can happen

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/luck-777-gif-5823073841658263814

[alpine wraith]

like coup crits are also quite gamba

if you crit in the end part vs the first 2 hits

[fringe island]

is CB a thing in aoe now?

[raven sail]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[solemn lance]

I noticed a couple of times on Sould Hunter prog coup would not proc at all in the first shadow dance and would be stuck at 3 stacks, is that just unlucky RNG? Only happened a few times but it hurt when it did

[hazy breach]

Yeah that can happen

if you dont get a reset on your regular unseen blade or proc any of your 2p

!prepull however if you do this second thing it wont happen

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[analog granite]

So basically you only ever use SoD in combination with sec tech or flag&blades?

and only use it on sec tech if flag&blades are not close to coming off cdf

[glad rampart]

!coupe

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[glad raven]

By "it's cooldown" does that refer to the 20s cd on unseen blade?

Trying to wrap my head where damage come from with trickster

[hazy breach]

Yes

[glad raven]

So when youre talking about sub being RNG. What's Rgn about it currently?

[analog granite]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vale pine]

procs of unseen blades

and 2p

which decide just how well coup de grace lines up with your cooldowns

[glad raven]

Ahh i get it

thanks

[analog granite]

is dungeon slice supported for sub?

[glad raven]

One more dumb question, are escalating blade stacks, the unseen blade proc stacks?

[hazy breach]

yes

[glad raven]

Thanks Eleem

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[analog granite]

I think rogue might be the only class with supported dungeon slice

not complaining tho

[tepid trellis]

made by rogues for rogues

[glad raven]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[lilac stag]

@tepid trellis we're on soul hunters. range dps aint great so we're hitting like 2% at enrage. Think I'm better off sending partial blades before the 3rd intermission instead of holding til after since they're both shortened windows

the timings there are cursed

[tepid trellis]

i just send on cd (just not in intermissions)

[lilac stag]

we hit the enrage a couple times and was going to try that on next attempt

[tepid trellis]

Ryldd had some nice timings that works well if you just about get last intermission iirc

but if you hit enrage, you loose a cast i think

if you do his

[lilac stag]

yeah I was trying to look over the timings. we're just low dps in general. range struggling with soaks and dps

unironically I think outlaw would be better for where we are

[tepid trellis]

had a 0.2% wipe on a reclear last reset

where i was doing over 10

just rng roll it xD

[lilac stag]

i had a couple 24m openers and was like wtf

we of course wipe in p1

[wild hornet]

I think I got like two pulls where I got coup during first flag out of an entire raid night

[mental kettle]

does anyone use a "special" keybind for the CD lineups - i.e potion + blades + prism

getting tired of perssing every key manually

only for when your prism is up, you have flag etc etc and never pressed outside this

[tepid trellis]

i press everything manually

[karmic harbor]

gotta disorienting cheese

[tepid trellis]

just proc

git gud

[fleet wharf]

I read the command but I'm a bit confused. exactly how do you do that cheese?

is it sending sec tech but not landing any more autos or what?

[dry zodiac]

As you’re wiping, you cast a secret technique. Then don’t press bs/shadowstrike again

[autumn condor]

I don't think its quite what you're looking for, and having everything bound manually is for sure the way, but I do have separate macros bound for sblades + sectech + sod + forge and a second for the same with prism. So depending which CD set I'm in I just hit that bind after Dance backstab. I figure losing the backstab Sod is worth the free smooth brain power

[vale pine]

^ just secret when whipe is called

and die after

[mental kettle]

yeah i have everyone bound manually

including CB

just in general presing 5 different buff keys before is start playing is getting omega tiring

[fleet wharf]

Some binds are ok though right? I can't think of a reason why blades+trinket would be bad (not counting prism exceptions)

[autumn condor]

Ye ofc

[karmic harbor]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[fleet wharf]

like I have a separate button for sec tech, and another one with sec tech+CB

[autumn condor]

I mean its one of those as long as you are doing your rotation correctly, the buttons you are pressing to do it doesn't really matter that much

Just don't bind sstrike to 1 and evisc to 9 unless you want to play keyboard ddr

[karmic harbor]

or have a cool keyboard layout

[autumn condor]

Also an option

[lethal thorn]

wheres the new toy i got question mark instead 🙁

[tepid trellis]

come back in a month

maybe they got to us then

[lethal thorn]

i mean outlaw and sin got the bottom one ... 🙁

[tepid trellis]

yes and they also arent sub rogue

we are the redheaded stepchild

thats locked in the basement

[mental kettle]

does anyone wanna play assa in specific keys?

[karmic harbor]

is warcraftlogs down

yee it is

[short radish]

Glad we could help

It was down earlier today as well

[vale pine]

wait again

was earlier already

[karmic harbor]

its back up already

went down for a few mins i guess

[vale pine]

okay, thats not too bad

[half knoll]

Ive kept forgetting to ask, should my top dam dealer for logs be sectec?

[tepid trellis]

on single target it should be Coup then sectech

this is from my rank 1 loomithar

[half knoll]

Ok ok i can do that, i was looking at another sub one time while learning (still am) and saw his sectec was top, i thought i was doing it wrong

[half knoll]

Another thing cus i cant check cus work, wtf is black powder supposed to do

It spreads find weakness doesnt it? Does it spread anything else like bleeds?

[tepid trellis]

blackpowder doesent spread anything

its just an AoE finisher

[ornate heron]

is it possible to sim the boe rings?

[lilac stag]

Top gear. Add item and ilevel at top of it

[karmic harbor]

https://www.patreon.com/posts/weakauras-x-140349416

Damn

[tepid trellis]

slowpoke

[ornate heron]

when i do that it comes up as only stam

with 0 secondaries

and if i start typing the specific name of the ring (entropy of the peerless) or whatever it says item not found

[karmic harbor]

Sorry I was depleting floodgate 18 because my dk had under 9mil overall

[tepid trellis]

on you for playing m+

[warm marlin]

Once you add it you hit the + to select stats

It’ll still just be called entropy in top gear

[ornate heron]

thank you

[twilit gorge]

does using tricks on a tank during raid do much? is there any specific raid tuning that makes it pointless? my tanks have been having aggro swap issues on some parts of the m saladbar fight, was wondering if a tricks during a specific time would help

[latent finch]

Tricks does not help with aggro issues on tank these days. Its pretty good at helping yourself not get aggro but thats kinda it. They will need to figure it out themself. Also keep in mind that while dance we have nearly no aggro generation anyway and outside we have no dmg so we cannt give any meaningful aggro to begin with

[twilit gorge]

ah okay thank you much

[solemn lance]

Oh my, my coup is number 1 but barely. Same amount of casts but half the damage

[radiant swift]

how can i see all ! commands?

[vale pine]

should include the important ones

[rain stratus]

All about getting the coups done in your dances

[solemn lance]

my guess is its not hittign coup first in SD if its up

so im missing out on the whole thing being amped

[tepid trellis]

prio is just sectech over coup

thats about it

then get lucky at the timings of your coup procs

and its a done deal

[random cedar]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[urban egret]

so in m+ when shadow blades is down say after the burst how often should i be sending symbols+dance+sectec

like i dont think its an exact science ofc but should i be holding like a charge of each or so?

[tepid trellis]

as many times as you can, but still having enough to do 2x of each thing in your next blades

[urban egret]

right ok

[lime edge]

hey smexy people! i have an erh sim thingy ive simmed a dg slice and a patchwerk 5 tar 90seconds no lube. so heres the sims https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kb4TAaMC9KzHnPrjF5FpDM https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xjLG1qac7cq3fB8Pv7wBhU which one do i "believe" or rather which one do i follow? kind regards a gnome with issues.

[urban egret]

just have a feel for cdr stuff then i assume ?

[halcyon pendant]

90s 5 targets is not enough to emulate aoe situations

[urban egret]

like symbols doesnt have cdr obv but dance and sectec do. do i ever send a dance sec tec by itself?

[tepid trellis]

yes you need to get a feel for it

[urban egret]

gotcha ill keep jus trying stuff then

[halcyon pendant]

It's a complex topic, but in general is always use a SoB with ST and a Dance if you a have a charge you can spend respecting the 2x Dance for Flag.

[lime edge]

What do i set it to then?

[urban egret]

right ok just pay attention to the cooldown timers and play off that common sense really ok less complicated than i suspected it might be

[halcyon pendant]

Dungeon Slice will get you there! For pure aoe because of the the 90sec CD window, consider simming 2min or 4min. Something outside your cds, where multiple trinket use are available

[lime edge]

Will try those now!

[halcyon pendant]

Just remember to consider that CDR when looking at your timers, you'll eventually develop a feel for it

[analog granite]

wait can you adjust dungeon slice sim duration? I thought it overrides to 6sec

do you need to enter something in the custom APL or something?

[halcyon pendant]

I meant dungeon slice in general is good idea for M+ sim. For pure aoe (your 5 target sim), you should increse the time allowing multiple trinket uses

[tepid trellis]

dslice is 6min dont think you can change that, but ive never tried since i dont do dslice sims ever

[analog granite]

why not? don't do a lot of m+ or do you just sim ST always?

[tepid trellis]

i just dont sim for dungeons

[analog granite]

idk how much it matters

[tepid trellis]

when i still did high key pushing i just tested different setups

[limpid sage]

Do you know if dslice has fight length variance as well or if it’s fixed 6 min

(I know I could easily test myself but I’m not on the computer)

Because if it’s fixed 6 min, it’d make sense that forge sims so shit on dslice

[analog granite]

I'm pretty sure it's fixed 6min

[tepid trellis]

it has variance

[analog granite]

wait I think I misunderstood, what do you mean by fight length variance?

since the fight length is fixed at 6m

[alpine wraith]

has variance on pulls time to die

[tepid trellis]

sims have a 20% variance

in time as well

[alpine wraith]

and general lenght

so it sims lots of chunks from 4 mins to 6 mins in the case of a 5 min sim

like if you do 100000 iterations it does like 10k of each increment of times etc.

[analog granite]

and it takes the average of those or how does it work

[tepid trellis]

so in the case of a dslice which is baseline 6min some of them will be 5min and some will be 7

it will show you the median

or rather one of the medians

[analog granite]

so if you would do the exact same sim 5 times

it will give a slightly different output?

[tepid trellis]

very very minor dif

like marginal difference

[analog granite]

so it would not affect the way a trinket performs

[tepid trellis]

cuz it does 60k iterations

[analog granite]

I guess that makes sense if the variance can only be 20% since trinket won't be off cd

[tepid trellis]

or in this case here 40k of them

[analog granite]

interesting

never really thought about how sims work tbh

[sullen yarrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sweet turret]

!spreadsheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

I think he means if you would do 5 iterations and see the diff between them

[wheat elk]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rbZeMBeHQwWN4XpnY9HnJv why is this so low??

[limpid sage]

Ye ig he didn’t correct that he meant what I said

[hazy breach]

What do you mean

[tepid trellis]

seems like a pretty normal sim for you gear

[limpid sage]

It 100% does. Forge is significantly better on a strict 5 min timer compared to 5 min with 20% variance

[hazy breach]

Yeah and its significantly worse if the fight is 8 mins or longer

[wheat elk]

havent been lucky with the boots yet but antenna instead iof pacemaker wont be that much of a diff

and ive seen people do 5.2 5.3 on sims

[limpid sage]

Because in both edge cases of variance being maxed out, you miss a cast of forge or forge has 30 sec cd left

[hazy breach]

And if the fight is 2:30 forge+passive is way better

[tepid trellis]

well yeah cuz they have those said items and are like 722 equipped

[limpid sage]

I actually never simmed this. What’s the diff between passive+prism and forge+prism?

[hazy breach]

A lot

Unless its specifically 2:30 or 4:30, then forge+passive is good

Oh wait you meant forge+prism

[limpid sage]

Ya

[hazy breach]

But yeah the longer the fight the worse double on-use is

Because a lot of the benefit is from being able to have a trinket on pull

[queen rain]

Is everyone else’s wow characters deleted

[limpid sage]

I wonder if it could make sense using forge with cds on pull on araz and send ~2 prism stacks on the adds at 30 sec

Since you actually gain something from tfd

[analog granite]

Ngl I can't follow along anymore at this point

[glacial lintel]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[analog granite]

No I think I asked what variance was I just meant the length thing idk

[last gate]

!symb

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[last gate]

!tea

[wicked jolt]

Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```

[limpid sage]

I just thought that you maybe asked if the sim changes from sim to sim

[lost dirge]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[last gate]

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

this one

[last gate]

/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null 
/cqs

[fossil forge]

any fixes with the saladbar plaform thing

im losing my mind

[left ledge]

What’s wrong with it

[fossil forge]

i get like delayed sht sounds

x500

[left ledge]

What the helly

[fossil forge]

typeshit twin

[left ledge]

I cleared didn’t notice that

[torn shell]

If I want to do high add damage on M araz do I just cleave off boss with ST rotation or should I be pressing black powder instead of non coup evis?

[tepid trellis]

id just evis

difference in dmg at that target count is so miniscule

[orchid rampart]

in AoE situations i feel like blasting evis works wonders over BP am i wrong?

[pastel geyser]

i prefer the prio damage in a lot of situations

[shrewd lantern]

low ilvl trinkets, no soulhunter boots

normal to mythic soulhunter boots for me was 66k on sim

[winter harbor]

Doing like 6 shadowstrikes in a row without a coup stack is infuriating when you are sitting on 3 stacks already

[kind thorn]

Question do we have to stick with the target we use flagellation or can we just tab target to spread the rupture ? Ty in advance.

[rough sigil]

is that a bug or just unlucky as fuck, that only happens to me at 3 stacks too

[winter harbor]

idk its happened to me so much where i dont even get my coup until after my second ST even with first dance and do like no damage.

with lust and thousand cuts it just seems so impossible

[hazy breach]

Can happen if you dont get any 2p procs or thousand cut resets ye

!prepull #2 here prevents it, but its a bit oof

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[winter harbor]

i do the supercharge but not the other

maybe ill try to work that in but yeah seems hard af to have ST off CD when you are wiping since we use it so rotational

[orchid rampart]

so secret tech should be followed up with what finisher mostly? or does it fully matter which one

[hazy breach]

Whatever you would be using

So coup if its up, or eviscerate/bp if its not

[orchid rampart]

!WA

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[robust igloo]

You can spread it, IT will counts stacks anyway yee

[winter harbor]

adjusting for fight length (5:30) why did this guy do 1.5 million more dps than I did on loom? I had a pull with no threads and thought I would do well but my damage was dogshit.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HfphGjPFNVRZ6XtQ?fight=last&start=3249364&end=3579746&type=damage-done&source=9

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kfDvBFcrMn6Q4pAW?fight=8&type=damage-done&source=14

i had 76 unseen blade procs to his 97

am i fucking up or something

[warm marlin]

he did proc better than you yes

also had an extra cast of sectec

you dropped a gcd in tfd and also held your 2nd sectec for super long

[winter harbor]

i sent it on the second global after my backstab

of the 2nd dance

there has to be something im doing way wrong for 1.5 mill dps

thats wild

[kind bluff]

He also pushed into amp phases faster therefore even adjusting for kill time if push time isnt the same damage will be different.

[winter harbor]

oh that makes more sense

i honestly forgot it had a damage amp

[kind bluff]

There were still issues but you have to take factors like that into account

[winter harbor]

what are the other issues aside from the 1 global in that dance

[weak horizon]

you guys think 710 heroic soul hunters reshii wraps boots would be more worth over 720 crafted boots (no embellishment)?

[vagrant sinew]

yes

[weak horizon]

yeah the 710 reshii boos simmed about 17k higher

[kind thorn]

Is there a weak aura to track specificly when to hold shadow dance for the next Shadow Blades?

[cold kernel]

probs a ton, i made a trigger to make my sd be red when blades is under 35s

[weak horizon]

A good sub rogue who manages their CDs/rotation well, and with the right trinkets can easily be at the top of the damage meters in raid, yes?

I've always know sub to be THE funnel/ST spec, especially in raid, especially traditionally.

Someone tried telling me that sub basically sucks because they showed me a 95th percentile of manaforge omega dps specs and sub rogue is at the bottom.

The funny thing is, I've always seen sub rogues at the top of the damage meters during mythic prog, while these same raid charts will have shown them in the middle or towards the bottom

[fleet wharf]

We don't have funnel, our ST is pretty bad. Just look at fract for that

We should peak when we send our cds, but we basically do no damage outside of that very specific window. This raid just has a lot of windows where we can leverage that well

[warm marlin]

Unless you are significantly better than every other member of your raid, you will not be easily at the top on plexus/loomithar/soulhunter (maybe easier than the rest)/fractillus

you can leverage your strengths (cd flexibility, st burst, burst cleave) to be near the top or top of soulbinder, araz, nexus, dimensius

and your sustained st is very bad yes

thankfully sub is very good at abusing burst add spawns and damage amps so you can still do well despite that

[weak horizon]

Well I'm getting my rogue geared up for sub rogue atm, I remember the rotation and managing CDs because I played it before. Should I expect to be disappointed or mid-dps, or 2-3 spots above tank damage?

[fleet wharf]

depends on the fight, Ryldd covered where we can be good and where we won't be so hot

[warm marlin]

you probably wont be very happy on fractillus in particular where sub is the worst spec in the game but you can def have some big pop offs on some of the good bosses i mentioned above

[weak horizon]

Surely Blizz will see a traditionally top performing raid spec all the way at the bottom, and perhaps give them a little buff

[fleet wharf]

I think it's a good season for sub all things considered because on the harder fights we do well in

[warm marlin]

yep can't really complain

[fleet wharf]

We'll prolly not get significant changes. ST buff in exchange for nerfed aoe would be ideal but I doubt we'll get such tuning

[weak horizon]

The damage amp phase just confuse me a bit. Araz for example, when you switch to attack towers, is it ever worth to send flag + sb during that time? Or hold it for damage amp phase, and only use symbols dance sectec?

[fleet wharf]

I just held for damage amps. Let ranged deal with intermission

not even symbols or dance tbh because you want everything up for the amps

unless you're gonna overcap significantly

[weak horizon]

What you doing during those long intermissions then? Send a dance symbols combo if about to cap?

[fleet wharf]

backstab soup

[weak horizon]

Auto attack backstab simulator

[fleet wharf]

but yes, send dance symbols and sec tech if you'll overcap

[weak horizon]

The one thing I always found appealing about sub is that it creeps up out of no where, and people are usually impressed by a sub rogue

One minute you're like #6-8 in dps, 1 minute later you flew to the top of the meter

[fleet wharf]

for sure, I also really like that about sub and this season has many moments where you can do that

[echo nebula]

why exactly is "The Rotten" a m+ talent? what makes it better than grabbing 6% crit during symbols?

i just wonder bc we swap 2 talent points from raid build to m+ build, double rupture makes sense, but the swap from symbols crit to rotten doesn't. i must be missing something crucial

is it because it just does a little bit more with nimble flurry active?

[weak horizon]

Is having two active trinkets more acceptably meta now? For example if you have prism and araz

Basically giving you a huge on-use for each big CDs window

[tepid trellis]

Yes

[shrewd lantern]

Sub hasnt been a funnel spec in 7 years

bfa s1 was 7 years ago

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

true

but sub was the original funnel spec

which is why it's weird we haven't gotten it back but a bunch of other specs have

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i was there

when they shot it in the head

[hazy lichen]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shadow lance]

You can apply FW to ALL targets with one shuriken storm thanks to it

[echo nebula]

ohh yeah that makes sense. thanks

[shadow lance]

With a lot of crit, I pref play with finality

[signal lotus]

!log

[viscid mantle]

I think I might have misunderstood the guides but when my 2nd set of cds come back up and I have rupture on enemies in aoe where exactly do I send flagellation there ? Just before the symbols + shadow dance ?

Primarily confused because of these parts

Or would I go symbols + shadow dance into generator into flag into shadow blades

[shadow lance]

Flag before danc/sod

It' legit what the guide say

"Use symbol with flag" is a way to say, when you pressed flag, you need to sod>sectech during it

Just be at full CP, Flag > dance/sod > Sectech > ShadowBlades

[viscid mantle]

Gotcha, thanks. Got a little mixed up since it says to use flag with enough CP to finish right after and dance asking to have low CP

[shadow lance]

Or, if you want, Flag > BP > Dance/sod / bs > Sectech > Shadowblades

Dance with low cp? where it is?

[shy scarab]

ur name brooo, outlaw is for the youngster.. my wrist hurts after 5min gamepplay

[last gate]

i did one dungeon on outlaw and i take a 1 day break from wow 😂

[shadow lance]

Cuz you can dance > Finisher > bs OR dance > bs > finisher

Doesn't matter

[viscid mantle]

oh

[shadow lance]

Just don't use at 2 3 4 5 cp

[viscid mantle]

makes way more sense now

[shadow lance]

You just want to benefit from premed

So you dance at low cp or at 6-7 if you finisher instant

[signal lotus]

haahahahah

[shy scarab]

fucking dead bro hahaha

[signal lotus]

most difficult gameplay yet the lowest damage

garbage game man

[shy scarab]

its not difficult, its just spammy

[frank trellis]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[cobalt palm]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[hot ibex]

Does sub suffer from target swapping duing CDs?

[lyric violet]

Hi ppl, if i interrupt coup during cast between slices, for example using vanish, it will result in a dps lost?

[lyric violet]

Dependeds what is up on mob but usually yes

[meager coyote]

the symbols of death macro I got from here preventsme from pressing symbols at all if I spam the button, any helpers?

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[meager coyote]

I didn't misstype it

[lyric violet]

you have to change the name of spel in your game language

[meager coyote]

it's in english obviously

it activates the ability once, and then it doesn't let me press it again

[woeful barn]

Did you copy, paste? Or type it out

[meager coyote]

tpye it out, I'm looking at it again it's correctly written

[lyric violet]

it wait that the effect end for what i understood

[meager coyote]

wat

[lyric violet]

The 10 secs of burst

[woeful barn]

So you’re saying symbols isn’t working at all

[meager coyote]

no I'm saying I press it, it activates once and I can't press it again for a while

and by a while I mean longer than the 2 seconds

[woeful barn]

Oh well don’t use it then lol

[meager coyote]

like if I just stand in dornogal and keep pressing it it prevents me from ever regaining the buff

[glacial kraken]

longer than the duration?

[woeful barn]

Yeah it’s the cqs

[meager coyote]

does it just re-cycle to null if I keep slamming it and that's why it keeps extending past the 2 seconds?

ahh yeah I see

[lyric violet]

No one know?

[meager coyote]

I found myself trying to squeeze one last "unoptimized" symbols in a bossfight and it didn't let me I was so confused, if I just stopped pressing it and clicked it after the 2 sec it'd be fine

[meager coyote]

can't say I do but I doubt it, only maybe leaving melee? but even then I doubt it "animation canceling" like that isn't rly common in wow

[fallow nimbus]

Castsequence macros start their timer everytime it gets pressed even without firing the skill

[lyric violet]

Exactly, my doubt is about animation canceling or when you are pushed back for example

Idk if the dmg is during all animation and need bodies touch or I can just insta-cast and cancel animation

[meager coyote]

yeye I didn't know but figured it out 🙏

[meager coyote]

defeinitely need one of the big brains to answer ur qestion

[fallow nimbus]

Test it at a dummy, hit coup and vanish, look at details if you have all the hits

Coup should even immediately cancel vanish I think

[shadow lance]

you didn't understand then

It just waits 2 sec after each press to reset the macro

If you spam it, you'll never press SoD a second time, if you wait >2 sec after pressing once, you'll be able to use

[lyric violet]

I have the same behavior described

Have to wait since effect end

[shadow lance]

You sure you speaking about SoD and not dance?

[lyric violet]

Y

I did differents tried and I got that I can recast in 10 secs, the time to end my first part of rotation

[lyric violet]

I'll try in some minutes

[shadow lance]

And about your coup question, vanish is instant canceled by coup but coup isn't cancelled

I just tested now

[lyric violet]

Thanks

You tested if you got out of range during coupe?

I'll try in case of not

[shadow lance]

Lemme check

Doesn't cancel

And for SoD macro https://vimeo.com/1124437119?share=copy

Proof it works fine

[hot ibex]

I macro dance, sod and bs in one macro, for QoL But will castsequence in below apply to the macro or just to backstab?
#showtooltip Symbols of death
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Symbols of Death
/castsequence reset=2 Backstab, null

[lyric violet]

You got a lot of dmg lost in this way

[lyric violet]

Ty big man

[shadow lance]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[shadow lance]

Don't macro sod and dance

[hot ibex]

Not if I use it when needed.
U can bind a macro and dance and SoD by itself

[shadow lance]

A bit dumb in my opinion but ok

A more keybind for weird reason

But everyone play like he want

[hot ibex]

Pressing one key is easier and faster than pressing three imho 🙂
However, my question was about castseq

If I spam this - will Dance still activets twice? Or does reset=5 apply to the whole macro?
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[dry zodiac]

I’m not sure but should be pretty easy to test?

Dance will not

Because dance cannot ever activate again while active

But symbols might in your previous macro. Easy to check tho in game.

[raven sail]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[raven sail]

We also spend coup de grace eviscerate with 5-6 cp right?

[fleet wharf]

cdg scales linearly so you don't need to follow the same rules.

[lost dirge]

how can i aoe rotation ?

[fleet wharf]

technically sending it with more cp is good because it's more energy efficient, but whatever

[lost dirge]

single okey but i cant aoe dmg

[fleet wharf]

cdg as top prio, you can black powder at 4 targets or more

[lost dirge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iG3nxSLKoZSFc66M1586L1

[vale pine]

you can

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[lost dirge]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[unborn vault]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[raven sail]

So if I have cdg, I use evizcerate even at 2 cp?

[sudden laurel]

Quick question is it possible to start a m+ dungeon with 18 stacks of prism?

[unborn vault]

that shadowcraft wa doesnt work for me :<

[vale pine]

you can use coup on lower cp, especially if the buff is about to run out

[solid hatch]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[wispy crystal]

!secret

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[glossy turtle]

is double active trinket the best for m+ as sub? (rital + prism)

[daring marlin]

guess so

I wonder if champ forge would perform better instead of hero antenna

[glossy turtle]

I have the oppertunity to take ritual forge myth track, and I have prism on hero track

But I only really play m+, so if its not better in m+ i probably wont take it 🙂

[vale pine]

yes

take it

forge + prism is rly good in m+

[glossy turtle]

great

what should my macro look like then?

[vale pine]

well

you ideally don't macro them

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[glossy turtle]

damn, I just have soo few keybinds left haha

[vale pine]

don't worry, will get better in Midnight

[glossy turtle]

are the changes good for sub? I quite like the outlaw ones, but havent checked out sub yet

[short radish]

no

[vale pine]

i would just say it seems incomplete

[lethal gale]

I’m usually not a doomer but the changes seem bad all around but we’ll see

[vale pine]

the changes done so far don't fulfill one of the pullet points highlighted in their flavor text

[lethal gale]

Just disappointing cause I’d say this iteration of sub is one of if not the best I’ve played in the past 5 years

[vale pine]

legion and the current one

yes

the problem with the current iteration is just the knowlage required to play it correct

[iron plover]

I liked shadowlands sub :<

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[vale pine]

it was okay in seaosn 2, it had some amount of ups and downs due to flagellation

season 3 was especially boring

[topaz agate]

what can i macro tea to

[vale pine]

shadow dance

[void hound]

https://tenor.com/view/bongo-cat-rogue-gif-24661232

[vale pine]

snake eyes

tho it wasn't backstab

outlaw has a diffrent builder

[raven sail]

Can we macro SD and backstab so we can skip 1 button?

[vale pine]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[muted kindle]

anyone had issues with having cb macroed to ST? it keeps saying spell not learned

[karmic harbor]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[karmic harbor]

stop playing assassination

[raven sail]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[glad rampart]

Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar whats this wa for

[native zodiac]

coups a 1.2 sec gcd with the last hit hitting at 1sec

which can refund your combo points bc of sht

so you wont to kinda not queue a gcd if there could be a refund coming (7 sht stacks) until 1sec after coup kinda

that bar tells you that

[last gate]

I TIMED MY FIRST EVER 15 ATLAST!

IM HAPPY

AND SCARED

16 key in my bag is scary

WTF it took me 40 min to made a gp for 15 and now 16 is like a unicorn lol

[amber sedge]

if we do a bigpull, we do BP or Evis?

[tepid trellis]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[amber sedge]

i got blamed in my last key, becaus i use BP instead of Evis on the packs

big pulls before last boss ara kara

[round latch]

why would you fear about anything

open a guide for your key

que

build a team

play the game and have fun

[iron plover]

I mean depends on the pack

Pulls with the swarm guards for example you’d want to single target

There’s a patrol with one of those down the middle right before the last boss

But haven’t really seen any groups go down the middle in a while

[amber sedge]

it was the pack on the left

[iron plover]

I think it’s better to single target down the casters so you can keep pulling

imo the small guys don’t really matter, how fast you can get through it depends on how fast those casters die

[amber sedge]

yeah, but they blame me for that. i got a whisper, i should do Evis instead of BP on Big Pulls

[iron plover]

Well that as a blanket statement is just wrong

they’re probably just looking for someone to blame

[hidden jetty]

sounds like penis envy on their part, ngl!

[hazy breach]

Its a very small difference either way

[amber sedge]

it came from BM hunter :D

9M over all dps

his damage was insane, but he was toxic as hell

[solid hatch]

I dont get the rotation. How am I supposed to build stacks of unseen blade in AoE Rotation?

[hazy breach]

Shadowstrike

[solid hatch]

But dont I use Shuriken Storm for aoe?

[hazy breach]

Not during dance no

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[solid hatch]

ty

And outside I use storm + powder?

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[topaz agate]

how much mastery is too much in m+

can i legit just keep stacking

[last gate]

ask robot

[topaz agate]

i have 27k mastery

[topaz agate]

im not simming m+ you crazy person

[last gate]

im 28k mastery

[last gate]

then dont ask here

sim is the smartest person in this room

[last gate]

you were right
even tho we failed it
atleast now i know that im better than most of the people in my IO

[topaz agate]

lmao

thanks for that

[hidden jetty]

is 14500 crit "too much" for playing sub in an optimal way?

[naive cedar]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[hoary tendon]

Hey guys, do you know why I sucked on this key ? https://fr.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YtGBFRNnwcqa4bdM?fight=1&type=damage-done
I don't get how to consistently go beyond 10M on big pack - help 😢

[analog granite]

So thistle tea can be macro'd to dance but should you try not to fall below 30 energy so it doesn't auto proc or is that not an optimization

[weary tree]

Youve done BP in like.. 1 pack. You gotta do it at every pack with 4+ mobs

[hoary tendon]

doesnt feel like doing dmg when BP

[weary tree]

Feel might be different than actual numbers

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[hoary tendon]

OK so either coup de grace when up then BP

[shrewd lantern]

Depends if your sim gains a signficant amount dropping crit.

[hoary tendon]

thanks guys, will try

[weary tree]

at 4+ targets yes

[analog granite]

So with nimble flurry active and 4+ targets, BP will do more damage than evis?

[left ledge]

At 4+ you bp

Unless coup is up

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah but the difference is not that massive

but bp is a gain

[analog granite]

But at 4 targets it could be worth to evis if there is a prio target I presume

[left ledge]

You’re already shadow striking it and using sectec on it

But sure if you absolutely want to kill that one target

You can evis

[analog granite]

Okay so then nimble flurry doesn't really affect your rotation? Apart from causing you to use SS instead of shuriken storm on multiple targets

[plush roost]

S-shadow str-ike??? Striking? Stricken?

[hoary lotus]

If overall is less important than a priority target dying, losing aoe is probably worse for damage numbers but better for the group or dungeon timer. Example is priory if you have 0 funnel specs.

[vale pine]

subtleties funnel is not that big

so you don't trade of numbers that make noticable diffrences

[hoary lotus]

I mean surely it's worth something over nothing

[vale pine]

we talk about like 5-10% diffrences

[hoary lotus]

Thats pretty big

[vale pine]

the majority of our priority damage is in coup and secret

[hoary lotus]

10% more st damage if you have literally no other funnel spec on the big target is big.

[vale pine]

5 targets

8 targets

[fleet acorn]

Do I need to spam shuriken Storm to Apply find weakness to mobs around me ?

[vale pine]

so yes, its more than nothing

[left ledge]

No

Just press it while grouping or outside of dance

Don’t press it in dance

You don’t have to aim to apply FW to everything

[fleet acorn]

So always Strike in Dance and evic <= 4 mobs and >=5 bp

[left ledge]

Sure, you can bp at 4

Or evis

Bp is just more damage but at 4 it’s not a big deal

[fleet acorn]

Ty

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[fleet acorn]

How big is the difference on mh and offhand crafted Max or only mh and using a heroic offhand

[left ledge]

Offhand is low value for us

Main hand is big value

[fleet acorn]

Lucky me Grinding the mh then Tomorrow

Used a hc one until now

[left ledge]

Yeah your #1 prio should be main hand wep

[vale pine]

offhand item level is rly minor

mainhand is strong

[fleet acorn]

Do I Go Vers/mastery on mh sub or mastery/crit which is more versatile for raid and m+

[vale pine]

offhand is one of the worse slots you can upgrade usually

you just go vers mastery usually

[solid hatch]

I have 815 haste - 1%. Is this too low?

[vale pine]

we kinda ignore haste

so low haste values are perfectly fine

[solid hatch]

ty

[shrewd lantern]

difference is so tiny

[last gate]

what rating we get title?

[vale pine]

crit/mastery might be good

if you want to play sin too

[last gate]

is it top 0.1% or 1%?

[last gate]

DAMN

[shadow lance]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-tww-3/eu

[last gate]

3600...

[last gate]

THANKS

[shadow lance]

3650 in EU

[solid hatch]

This are my stats atm. Less Mastery and more Versa + a bit crit?

[shrewd lantern]

unemployment buffer /joke

[vale pine]

looks fine

mastery, vers and crit is fine

njust no haste

[solid hatch]

Thanks

[last gate]

does touching the IO gives title?

or i should be 0.1% for the entire season

[shrewd lantern]

no

[last gate]

FK

[shadow lance]

Only in the end

[last gate]

its even harder now lol

[shrewd lantern]

if someone sweats last hr before reset

and pushes you out of 0.1

you wont get

same as pvp

[shadow lance]

You must be in the 0.1% at the end of the season, no?

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah

[last gate]

well

[shrewd lantern]

you have to be as the season ends

[last gate]

the title isnt worth it tbh

who cares about my title anyway

😄

[shadow lance]

M+ nerds

[shrewd lantern]

Even worse than rbg mains

[solid hatch]

Any macros/bindings which are suggested?

[shadow lance]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[last gate]

dude i tried 16

and i felt like mobs arent taking dmg from me

lol

[shrewd lantern]

have you tried doing more damage

I suggest cocaine pre key

[alpine wraith]

get some gummy bears

but specially the purple ones

trust me

[shy flare]

Hello fellow rogues, I haven’t played sub since legion and looking to sink my teeth in. I just wanted to ask if the wowhead guide is up to date? I saw in the pins it was updated a few weeks ago so I assume it is. And if there was a you tube guide most would recommend as I usually learn better from that than just reading off the site.

[alpine wraith]

yea wowhead guide is up to date

patch has been up for a while

any of these or my videos kinda work

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[chilly sage]

Hachadino where do i see your videos :)?

[alpine wraith]

on the sheet in my profile they are kinda indexed or yt

[chilly sage]

sweet! thanks man

[shy flare]

Dope. Thank you

[valid vault]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torn shell]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[onyx mulch]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[onyx mulch]

!shadowblades

!st

!rotation

[vale pine]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[vale pine]

any of them is perfect

[onyx mulch]

thx fuu

[visual widget]

if youre in a spot like outside of symbols/shadow dance where you're only getting a few combo points per backstab cast as opposed to like maxing out your combo point bar immediately, is there generally a threshold of combo points where its more worth it to cast a finisher as opposed to backstabbing more to get up to a full combo point bar? or is maxing out combo points before a finisher always preferred?

[vale pine]

you finish on 6+

you can finish lower with coup de grace up

[visual widget]

thanks

[burnt ridge]

assa player trying to play sub

is there a simplified guide for how to dps

cant understand shit following wowhead guide

[torn shell]

on first boss gambit, i always get purged by fire when i start my cds. What do you guys do on this boss? hold until after that mechanic or just cloak and greed?

[alpine wraith]

you just cloak yes

[lilac stag]

Read one of the other two then. There should be a “simple” version on wowhead as well.

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac stag]

What specifically do you not understand?

[iron plover]

Cloak

You don’t really need it for anything else that fight

[orchid rampart]

is 30% vers 81% Mast aW/ 24% crit pretty low in one i see some rogues 100% mast but sims keep telling me to keep all my gear the same

[hollow snow]

!log

[void ocean]

bruh under 105% is like inting

[orchid rampart]

sims keep telling me not to get more mastery lol

[shrewd lantern]

trust sim

You dont have identical setups to people you look at

racials trinkets etc

[orchid rampart]

yeah im just tryna learn sub, outlaw has been rough getting into groups preciate it

[void ocean]

yea, jokes aside, sims are the way to go, ignore stat weights in general

[shrewd lantern]

sub aint much better

[void ocean]

i mean i dont know what keys u r doing but i have no troubles getting into keys up until +14

[orchid rampart]

need FG for resil 15's and 1 15's than 16's

[shrewd lantern]

yeah make friends if you’re gonna play offmeta

[upbeat parcel]

hey guys in m+ how many ruptures i wanna have applied

[shrewd lantern]

goat sticker

[short radish]

But you apply rupture when not in dance and they live the duration

You also apply when tank is pulling

But dont really wait to send cooldowna

Its not worth

[void ocean]

lol ok this kinda encapsulates

[kind dust]

Can I vanish streets 1st boss Interrogation?

[lilac stag]

Yes and no

You’ll fuck over someone else

[short radish]

So yes

[feral knot]

You can cloak it

[bleak night]

vanish is much more fun

[plain zephyr]

Are the "Entropy" rings from raid unique if you have different stats? IE. Harmonious vs. Peeless?

[merry forge]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[hexed sluice]

I wanna say you can only wield one based on previous expansions that had "Of the ____" boe rings that were unique

[alpine wraith]

they are not unique

[hexed sluice]

thats wild

[plain zephyr]

So I could have two of them as long as the suffix is different?

[radiant schooner]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[flat marsh]

What does the shuriken storm before before second coup do?

[lilac stag]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[limber folio]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[fallow nimbus]

The stats on the boe rings can have different stat distributions + the affix for the stats themselves

Like big versa and low mastery

I read the question wrong

[alpine wraith]

you can even have 2 with the same stats same as crafted rings

i was going to buy 2 full mastery ones for scientific reasons

[ripe flame]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[shy flare]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[daring jasper]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[shy flare]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[lusty solar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[round latch]

should assume that before starting 😉

[plain zephyr]

They're unique so I don't think that statement is true.

[wispy crystal]

Hey guys going to be progressing on Mythic Araz tonight. Anyone have tips on how to do unethical DPS so my raid leader thinks I'm a god amongst men?

[tidal beacon]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[icy pasture]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[fickle jacinth]

ya i need tips also lol all the logs are Sub and its like 7-8 mill. Im guessing its alot of add damage also so holding Sec tech and dance for those? though im not sure how ST dps be compared to say Sin

[wispy crystal]

Any weakaura to track Darkest Night proc?

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[ivory vigil]

I'm starting to enjoy sub even if I do somewhat less damage than assa at the moment. Can someone please explain this sentence from the guide? "During Shadow Blades we want to cast Shuriken Storm in-between your two Coup de Graces, as it minimizes the risk of losing out on a stack for your upcoming Coup de Grace"

[plain zephyr]

It's because of this @ivory vigil

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[ivory vigil]

I see, thanks

So many behind the scenes passive things happening during gameplay it's hard to keep them all in mind

[plain zephyr]

Almost all of them are a super small increase in output. It's more of a lose to screw up big time trying to make these small optimizations.

Don't overthink it too much

[ivory vigil]

Yeah some of them I can't be bothered, I macrod cold blood with ST even if it is a loss

[hollow snow]

dont do what I did and hit CB sectec in between coup expecting your cp to refund, & then hit shuri to generate, wasting CB in a stacked prism dam amp

🙃

[valid ledge]

does anyone know if the runes that drop off of soul hunters are warbound or soulbound?

[echo nebula]

anyone know if find weakness affects nimble flurry? nimble flurry does damage as phys so if you do the rotten -> shuriken storm to fw everything then cleave with nimble flurry does it get amped?

[radiant patio]

how does alpha sub feel to play

[split stirrup]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cursive vapor]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1422984870132580422

[radiant patio]

thanks

[limber nest]

i got the mythic chest boe with heavy mastery/low vers. Use or sell?

[vale osprey]

Do you need gold? Or are you progging king/Dimmy and actually want the slight boost?

[hollow spear]

Just check out lorrgs how people time their CDs

But you usually dance and flag around adds/amp

[tall sky]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[limber nest]

im using the character to go help another guild

[valid vault]

how many seconds does flag get reduced by with blessing of autumn?

[limber nest]

also, does symbols have a macro that stops double presses?

[woeful barn]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[shy flare]

On say a +14 gambit first pull, how many ruptures should I put out before going into cds?

[valid vault]

spread them until the tank is finished grouping and then send

can be a bit rough if your group sends their cds straight away and kills smallies but no point sending cds unless you are hitting everything

[shy flare]

Ok. Is there ever a target count where we stop spreading ruptures outside of cds?

[worn blade]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[worn blade]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[shadow lance]

All

If they live more than +/- 12 sec

[ivory vigil]

Is there a guide that says on which bosses should you hold CDs and when?

[mystic bough]

You could use Lorrgs to see when people tent to delay cds

[last gate]

how to do high end keys

mobs in 16 WONT DIE 😭

[signal lotus]

when do we press backstab in dance rotation?

[last gate]

dance - symb - Backstab - shadowblades - sectec

your first generator after dance and before blades

so you consume [Premeditation] + 1 stack of DM

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[topaz agate]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[short radish]

be prepared to send a flag half way through the pack

its kinda an experience thing

where you start to get a feel how long a pack will die

and whether if you send a flag on it will be worth or not

[velvet hawk]

!sim

[ivory vigil]

I have no idea what number 1 means in the !coup, what do you do if you hold finishers for 10 seconds, or even 20?

Just autoattack.

?

[fleet wharf]

just backstab and don't use a finisher so you keep your sht stacks

having those up going into flag will result in higher peak for your next flag window

[ivory vigil]

That's why sometimes I can use multiple finishers in a row? I have no idea where the combo points come from

[fleet wharf]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[fleet wharf]

the shdowcraft refund sound trigger should help you keep track of it better, but yea, it's this talent. if your shadow technique builds up to 7 and you use a finisher, it'll automatically give you 7 up so you can use a second finisher right away

[ivory vigil]

I see, there's so much bloat on my screen and in the background since I last played. and everything needing weakauras doesn't help

Thanks for the explanation

[raw flicker]

Worth to use only symbols+dance if your flag is up but lets say that Tank bring just a small pack (like 3 mobs)?

I found myself in this situation sometimes while playing sub

[woeful barn]

Last time I looked lorrgs hasn’t been updated in like 5 weeks lol but surely not much has changed in regards to openers right?

[woeful barn]

Timed a 16 HoA today with a 12s freeze on Echelon after using 18 stack prism with pot. Barely timed the damn key I was sweating. But in general just send your cds on cd unless the pack is about to die most tanks seem to chain anyway so just don’t sit on them ever

Aggressive usage of cloak during cds when shit is all over helps also

[last gate]

doing all these

allways top dps

[raw flicker]

Not sure If I was clear in the question but the point is Just use a small burst (symbols+ dance only) and keep flag for a bigger pack.

[last gate]

still mobs not dying

[chrome palm]

Yeah it’s common but there’s no easy answer it’s just depends on many different variables, just wanna make sure it doesn’t mess you up for when you do wanna use blades

[raw flicker]

Topping dps with mobs not dying? If they dont die u go to the "backstab stage" and your dps climbs down

Explain that please

[last gate]

even on backstab stage they dont die 💔

THEY WONT DIE ACTUALY

like

[scenic plover]

lets go

[last gate]

its so much difference between

15

and 16

[last gate]

EZ

[scenic plover]

had a 3% try in the first week of the season as outlaw

took like 8mins

and now 4:30 as sub

[last gate]

raid talents?

[scenic plover]

nexus

[last gate]

nice ty

[summer peak]

!sim

!logs

Anyone have a dance counter or does that even exist 😆

Wa

[last gate]

dance counter?

im using whispyr weakaura it have danse counter built in

[scenic plover]

why do i save on crests here? my rogue has 723/720 weapons

[fallow nimbus]

Another char got a max 2hand weapon?

Or just the 720 av

[scenic plover]

my rogue has the 720 average but why would that allow me to do 723 cheaper? i thought i had to have a 723 for that

[last gate]

its account share

as i know

if you idk have a frost dk with 6/6 myth weapon

it will discount all of your alts

DUDE I NEED THESE RAID FEETS SO BADLY

[opal mantle]

flame the tank

[scenic plover]

[unborn vault]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[last gate]

does speed have cap?

its not getting more than 130% unstealthed

i have 15% speed items stacked

[void ocean]

yea, u cant go faster than the light, if u have a mass

[last gate]

BUT IT SAYS I HAVE 15% speed but my speed isnt getting more than 7%

[hazy breach]

Didnt you say you moved at 130%

Is that not 15% more than 115%

[last gate]

rogue have high passive MS from its talents

wihtout invis or any speed item you run at 123%

[hazy breach]

Its 15% from talents

[plain zephyr]

Soulbound

[lilac stag]

49% according to google

[paper iron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs_JA311zW4

3427% i would assume

that s a really meme thing tho, i think i ve seen the highest being 230% but that s on dh and with stacking multiple speed things. Idk about the gear speed% only cap

[lilac stag]

you had dumb levels of zoom in remix

assuming legion remix will as well

[quaint lodge]

When do you want to get blessing of summer during dimensius

[dense geode]

i believe on the last platform

[signal lotus]

is there a scenario where we press symbols without dance?

[vale pine]

usually not

[signal lotus]

so i macro it with dance?

[lilac stag]

No

You’re still pressing it with dance. Just not at the same time

[short radish]

on the 2nd platform - you also want autumn not summer

[limpid sage]

No there are times when sectec comes up before dance ends

You want to send sectec with symbols

[vale pine]

one of the most asked questions

you can , but its not ideal

[quaint lodge]

ty

[vale pine]

because especially your 2nd dance in cooldowns, you often want to use it delayed

for simplicity, can macro it but you trade of a bit of dps

[tulip portal]

723 mythic lily over 710 hc forge? is it worth to use lily over hc forge? from sims it seems pretty equal but idk lily feels like its worse imo

[shadow snow]

I need some help with araz. I every other add spawn i dont have cds and i dont do much dps. I always send all cds on pull. Should i be keeping my cds at start and send them at the first add spawn ?

[solid hatch]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[dense geode]

it depends for our prog kill dks held CDS until first adds spawn

you could prob do the same

[solid hatch]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[solid hatch]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[solid hatch]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[solid hatch]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[solid hatch]

!atro

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[solid hatch]

Why I'm doing more dmg with eviscerate than black powder on the 5 target dummys?

[shrewd lantern]

Getting PI as a terrible spec for it

[burnt ridge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[daring loom]

Hello guys, i just approched the rogue recently and jumped into sub, there is one thing in particular that tilt me, it's about that everyguide wowhead/icyveins says that you want to cast another SD after the first one ends during the 1.30 CD window, but to wait to cast Symbol untill Shadow Teq reaches 10 sec or less, but i ends up everytime on having the second shadow teq ready before the first SD even fall off and this ends up me pressing simultaniously SoD and SD and right after shadow teq it is me doing something wrong or has to be like this? so realistically i can't physically refresh first SD and wait on the shadow because everything overlap badly

[night rampart]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tiny sierra]

you're using first dance talent so you first SD after leaving stealth last a lil longe

[fossil forge]

finally got hpal

[tiny sierra]

but you should wait to use the 2nd to use the sec tec cuz if you throw it at the end of the 1st you might no get the full SD damage buff for all sectec hits

[fossil forge]

autumn

https://tenor.com/view/xrd-exrd-crypto-btc-eth-gif-23801255

[wispy crystal]

ya its risky throwing the 2nd stec at end of first dance.

really risk missing shadowdance dmg buff, so usually i prefer using it on the second Dance

[tulip portal]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[wispy crystal]

btw can we just play sub for all bosses in manaforge omega. switching to assas feels really tiring

[tiny sierra]

yes

i'm doing this too

[wispy crystal]

and sub isnt like super far behind assas right for pure ST?

i just wanna use the same set of gear and switch to pure ST or cleave with rupture at most.

[tiny sierra]

sub is better for the bosses that matter at this point tbh

[wispy crystal]

ya im progressing Araz now.

the pure faceroll fights like Plexus sentinel usually the DKs or Mages / Hunters are top

[tiny sierra]

yea you should go sub after that

maybe switch for fract

but being really honest i haven't been switching for a while now

guild will start extending on nexus king now

[bleak night]

fract you can swap from literally bottom to being bottom 5

huge stonks

[tiny sierra]

lmao

is just sad