subtlety

[sick karma]

With rogues, you pretty much need a physics degree to know how to do everything

[plush roost]

Yeah but thats the fun part, imagine playing fok envenom for an entire season

(Last season xd)

[sick karma]

ye and cry on single still happends actually

[fossil forge]

midnight waiting room zZz

https://tenor.com/view/h2di-squidward-sleeping-angry-in-bed-can't-sleep-gif-15539889049699227351

[sick karma]

I love rogues, but I've been feeling so disappointed lately

[fossil forge]

how come sub is pog rn

assa players are still coping for the bugfixes

[sick karma]

Pretty sure I’m aging—my left hand’s falling apart from all the spamming 😂

[vale pine]

There are fewer and fewer rogue streamers lately.
its not just rogue

[wicked urchin]

Managed to hit an astounding 716.5 ilvl today

(im the lowest in my guild)

kill me

[alpine burrow]

I'm confused - raidbots told me to pick the ilvl 668 pants, but shouldnt i pick one of the tier sets with higher ilvl?

[wind canopy]

Would you get 2/4-set with one of those tier pieces?

[sick karma]

well is a really low vault, maybe u have low pants and that one upgrade u a lot xd

[alpine burrow]

oh yeah my pants is down bad lol

and no i will not @wind canopy

[sick karma]

but is better get more ilvl

and do things to get pants on the week

[wicked urchin]

is the delve belt nerfed next week or when crests are uncapped?

[wind canopy]

Then that’s why. Unless you’re getting one of the bonuses, it just looks at stats of the items

[sick karma]

ye i think next week would be nerfed

[wicked urchin]

trying to figure out how to manage my crests this week

[alpine burrow]

@wind canopy So should I just go with the pants or should i craft my pants to increase it and then recheck it again

[wind canopy]

I don’t know what level content you’re trying to get done, so can’t advise

[limpid sage]

You can grind all of those options, so I'd take tokens

tokens at least give you the option to craft myth items if you really don't want to go for sockets

[wicked urchin]

it's not possible to sim turbo boost ilvls in top gear at the moment is it?

or is there a custom apl string i can use?

[hazy breach]

You can just write a number higher than 723

[limpid sage]

you can always override ilvl on the specific item

[plush roost]

Try ilvl 9999

🙂

[limpid sage]

by writing ",ilevel=x" iirc

[hazy breach]

But if you want to change all of your items its easier to just change it in the thing from /simc

[wicked urchin]

Yknow that makes a lot of sense and now I feel like an idiot

4 and a half hour sleep brain

[urban egret]

any1 have a macro for shadow blades to use on use trinkets?

[swift tinsel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[urban egret]

perfect

[wicked urchin]

Can also just use /use 13 + /use 14

[urban egret]

yeah i normally do

jus had an issue with the macro i made for some reason?

probably jus formatted it wrong

[wicked urchin]

So the play this week is probably to save crests yeah?

[graceful osprey]

Is that possible lol?

[wispy crystal]

At what ilevel do replace the 701 belt?

Eg. 723 then replace or lower is ok?

[swift tinsel]

I replaced mine at like 710ish

[wicked urchin]

Sim but the belts being nerfed next week

[wispy crystal]

Ok nice.. I don't know why Sims tell me to keep it for single target.

It's like 0.2% more or something for 701

[wispy crystal]

Oh is there tuning next week?

[wicked urchin]

.5 patch + turbo boost

[wicked urchin]

belt is being nerfed by 20%

[hushed roost]

i used to pray for these days

[swift tinsel]

I got myth belt in first or second vault so it was replaced fairly early

[leaden nexus]

What secondaries are you guys going for if you're swapping between sub and ass?

Mast/Vers?

[next pulsar]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[wispy crystal]

Oh so next week we get the dinars

Meaning we can buy the trinkets ? ☺️

[swift tinsel]

pretty sure dinars are on the 22nd

unless something changed

[wispy crystal]

Oh right thanks for the timeline

[lusty solar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[knotty vortex]

someone know a discord for rogue transmogs?

[hazy breach]

#transmog perhaps

[swift tinsel]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/226403529894526987

[unborn vault]

guys

we use two on use trinkets?

[swift tinsel]

you can

depending on which ones

[valid vault]

is there anyway to send on cd on dimensius without autumn?

[unborn vault]

its mostly araz+smth

[valid vault]

i get to amp and im waiting for like 5-6s

[swift tinsel]

prism

[unborn vault]

so we always use araz first?

[swift tinsel]

prism is the main trinket you want to get, then either go with passive or forge if you can get it

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[hazy breach]

You could fly faster/send faster and get it to like 2 seconds

[valid vault]

guess im just holding on second platform then

feelsbad

[unborn vault]

ty

how do i use lily+cursed stone?

sim says they r good together for me

[naive hawk]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[plush jackal]

do i go cold blood or thistle tea for demon hunters in raid?

[vague dragon]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vale pine]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ornate lake]

I am genuinely considering moving to fdk because for the love of God I can spend 6 hrs without getting into a single +15 as a 3200 rating sub

[swift tinsel]

do you have a 15 key of your own to list?

[shrewd lantern]

I mean if you hate yourself enough to pug you have to play fotm

how it be

[ornate lake]

It's 14 now

[wheat sentinel]

Quick sub question: if you send sectech on the last global of a dance, does the delayed damage get the dance damage bonus still

[hazy breach]

It does not

[wheat sentinel]

damn, had a feeling

[hazy breach]

Only the buffs active when it does damage is relevant

[shrewd lantern]

if you dance again before the thing hits

[wheat sentinel]

that was the other thing I was wondering. Good to have it cleared up

[shrewd lantern]

its a fresh one though

[ornate lake]

The thing is shamy/fdk comps are so meta right now that the last spot goes to dudus, hunters and dh most of the time

[edgy zenith]

anyone know why these numbers are so different?

rank 2 guy is missing like 200k DPS as well, 3rd place guy has an additional 1M added?

what is the difference between those numbers?

[alpine burrow]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[tropic pier]

I have a couple questions on sub rotation this patch:

1. Do you use shadow blades before sectech to hit both parts of it, or after sectech to hit the 2nd part of sectech going off
2. Do you coup -> shuriken storm-> coup in between every 2 stacks of coup to not waste unseen blade or just during shadow blades. What about on aoe?
3. I find pretty frequently that I get coup in my last 2 globals of shadow dance and so i dont have time to use the 2nd stack of coup before shadow dance expires is this normal

[sick sand]

bubbling wax main hand, mana oil off?

[hazy breach]

1. Right before
2. During shadowblades or on 4+ targets

But third happens

[vale pine]

wax mainhand yes, because it scales with item level

[lofty path]

I've just been using whetstones for weapon stuff, have I been throwing?

[swift tinsel]

nah

its a minor difference in most cases

[storm field]

is one not supposed to use backstab right after first shadow dance?

on first dance

opener

[tropic pier]

Thanks thats very helpful. followup questions:

1. Is there any benefit to backstab for a bit and enter shadowdance with sectech as the first global outside of CDs vs doing SS -> sectech as long as you dont overcap dance/symbols charges. basically do we care about the combo points when you enter dance or you just rip it whenever sectech is available. Maybe beneficial to wait for cold blood on your 2nd dance out of cds?
2. if i start a CD sequence with coup available, do we do flag -> finisher (that isnt evisc) -> dance/symbols/SS -> coup , or do we just rip the flag/blades/dance/symbols and coup first global

[olive jacinth]

You want to either start dance with 0 CB because first backstab gives you max. Or you wanna start with max CB so you can instant sectec after dance/sod.

First CB generator should always be backstab in dance

[cloud cipher]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qrNRYXm7caJCKgkT?fight=last&type=casts&source=5&view=timeline not really clued up on sub but ours seems to be doing zdps but when you check casts it seems similar to other sub rogues just way less damage. Anyone help with some insight?

[storm field]

cold blood on first secret technique is wrong p sure. U wait for 2nd dance window and use it with secret technique

[tropic pier]

yes for the first question im wondering if outside of CDs, like 2 cp, when dance/sectech comes off cd. Should i backstab to max and rip an instant dance/sectech, or i just send dance -> shadowstrike -> sectech

[karmic harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=366&v=FarKSz_OqqM&feature=youtu.be does anyone have the green text wa that tells you what to do in rings?

[swift tinsel]

Liquid WA pack

[olive jacinth]

If you dance at 2 CB you will waste them. Because first generator in dance will give you max CB. Aaaaand we dont want to waste CB 😉

Just go 6+ do a finisher then dance

[swift tinsel]

or its a custom Liquid TR Reminder

[karmic harbor]

i have the liquid wa and it doesnt show

[swift tinsel]

then its a reminder he/someone set up

in the Timeline addon

[karmic harbor]

ait ty

[tropic pier]

this is by default in liquid WA pack. delete the pack and reimport if its not showing for you

[karmic harbor]

huh

doesnt show for me

[tropic pier]

you might have disabled stuff or maybe it requires a MRT note?

i never set up any reminder for this and i get these reminders

[karmic harbor]

hmm

i just see this

😩

[swift tinsel]

The lil map showing where to place them is in the base pack but I'm 95% sure the green text is a custom TR

[tropic pier]

oh this

[swift tinsel]

because that's the default text formatting

for TR

[tropic pier]

i thought you meant drop on star stuff

[karmic harbor]

nah not star

[olive jacinth]

Opener is okay i guess. To optimize we use cold blood on second sectec inside CD window. After that he just sends dance/symbols on cd which is not good. We need 2x dance/symbols every 1:30min with big CDs. So in between should be max 1-2 dance/symbol combos.

[karmic harbor]

the green text

[swift tinsel]

I initially thought they were talking about the little map with the green icon

honestly Liquid TR might be my favorite raid addon ever

absolutely worth the paywall

[tropic pier]

there is this, do you have this

but i think it just says a TTS countdown and move

its not that green text

[cloud cipher]

cheers for this ill forward it on, hes a friend who hasnt played sub in a long time

[olive jacinth]

NP. also check this

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[karmic harbor]

can you link where i buy it pls, the patreon link i found is busted

[tropic pier]

xd

[karmic harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/anonymous-hacker-hack-hacking-vpn-gif-10891422

[olive jacinth]

Every 1:30 CD window should look like that. Coupe can vary

[cloud cipher]

huge ty

[tropic pier]

Ok nvm back to assa i dont like not macroing these anymore haha

Went like 5 years with them macrod

[olive jacinth]

I just made a second keybind with sectec macrod

[tropic pier]

so now i need these keybinds, its kinda too much:
dance
symbols
cold blood
sectech
cold blood + sectech
dance + symbols
either backstab or dance + backstab (stealth bar swaps to SS)

[lucid jackal]

U don't need all those macros lol

[olive jacinth]

I use less then on my lock and blood dk

[tropic pier]

Yes I think its optimal to remove the combo macros now, its too many binds but i have to undo 5years of muscle memory and add an additional 1-2 new key presses to every single dance window

which will make my opener scuffed af and my hand thinking im playing outlaw

whats the loss from just keeping cb + sectech perma macrod, and dance/symbols with a solo symbols bind

if its too much I guess i just stick with assa on last 2 boss prog

[olive jacinth]

I swapped kidney/evis keybind after 15 years. Took me 2 full days of dungeon grinding to re learn that

[lilac stag]

You want Sectech on its owns and macro’d. It’s a 1% dps loss just full sending macro

[tropic pier]

💀

well i guess i wait for midnight sub rework

and play assa + frost dk

its getting a bit too complex now that im hitting 40 haha

[slate lantern]

Neuroplasticity is a good muscle to exercise

[tropic pier]

its not even the additional buttons its some arthritis from pressing so many diff binds close together off gcd

i had no issues with macros to slow down the apm

this will be like 10+ additional apm to unmacro everything

[karmic harbor]

you dont need cb by itself do you?

[olive jacinth]

Its actually really chill to play sub tbh

[tropic pier]

they said they wanted to simplify specs and remove short overlapping cds from specs, im hopeful

[tropic pier]

seperate symbols + dance is +1 per shadow dance window we send 4 per minute, seperate CB is +0.75 per minute, ok so +5apm roughly

[lucid jackal]

Where?

[tropic pier]

dev interview

[lilac stag]

i expect all specs to be playable with an xbox controller

[lucid jackal]

Ppl have said this literally since legion

[lilac stag]

well you weren’t owned by M$ in legion

They have a vested interest to port it

[slate lantern]

Well if you keep the macros and just use the ones properly when you need them, its +0apm

[lilac stag]

if it happens who know. and to be honest I don’t care. lol

[lucid jackal]

They've been owned by Microsoft for what, a year?

[tropic pier]

yeah so thats +3 unique binds as well to duplicate the abilities seperately

less annoying

[lucid jackal]

I don't think they can shit out an Xbox port in a year

An Xbox port feels like an actual expansion feature as well

[swift tinsel]

nah

can just have it macroed to sectech, its two binds either way

[lilac stag]

they could. would if be good? Doubtful. Would it meet current standards of shit games getting released? 100%

[lucid jackal]

Lol

[lilac stag]

from a business strategy it makes sense but lord only knows wtf they’re thinking

[lucid jackal]

I don't think rushing out a half finished port would be a "smart move from a business perspective"

Again, a console port would be an expansion feature, it've been announced by now, no?

[lilac stag]

the no WAs and addons kinda feels like a console port decision (whether it’s now or near future)

[tropic pier]

I played wow with a console controller on my PC its not that bad actually

I can play frost dk no problem since the rotation is pretty simplified and i can still use macros/addons

but some classes are a bit too complex for it

[lilac stag]

I would hope they’d do it proper, but game releases in general are

[tropic pier]

the recent frost/unholy reworks is a good example of the design i think they will take in midnight

[lilac stag]

and I would think they’d do it as a feature but would anyone on PC actually care?

[tropic pier]

what you guys dont realize if it comes to xbox you can play on mobile with a touchscreen to controller button map

can grind out your weekly chores in between sets at the gym

[lucid jackal]

Well one, they would care. There are people that play both consoles and pc

And again, console wow would be a massive fucking deal, it'd be insanely huge for the game in general, there's no way it's a cliffnote in a random 0.5 patch

[tropic pier]

Yeah would be good for the game but i cant wait for LFG discrimination to exclude console players

hahaha

[lilac stag]

boomers fighting their kids to play classic on the console

but dad you have a PC

[lofty path]

they would have to split the playerbase like ffxiv

[lilac stag]

get the fuck out of my basement Jr

[lofty path]

nvm actually I'm wrong they do have cross platform

[lilac stag]

They would not.

[astral axle]

People keep brining up “grind out weekly chores” and bro idk we haven’t really had dailies since… forever. There’s the one weekly if you want to be current on the spark but that’s kinda it

[maiden oar]

in ffxiv console players did fine but i cannot imagine healing in wow on a controller

in raid anyway

[astral axle]

Im prolly crazy but I really don’t get the complaints about sub cd stuff being complicated. Just as with anything you have to make some effort at knowing what to do but it is pretty much muscle memory from there. The rotational conditionals and min/max stuff on even outlaw are arguably more difficult to learn than the sequence of CDs for sub’s burst window

[hoary lotus]

People who talk about rotations being difficult want every class to play like ret or bm

2-3 button rotation that requires 0 thought

[astral axle]

yeah ig why does every class have to play like that xD

[tropic pier]

as long as the rotation is engaging and has some high ceiling, i like having it simplified

[astral axle]

it is cool for things to be a little different

[hoary lotus]

Sub is so simple it's insane

[tropic pier]

Devoker is awesome imo its got some good minmaxes but few buttons

pretty fun rotation

[astral axle]

😵‍💫

Yeah I guess if like there are other specs that are that... why not play those specs? Do you just want that playstyle with shadow flavortext or something?

[tropic pier]

They can do simpler design while still having spec flavor 100%

[fringe void]

guys, anyone have ST rotation guide? really my ST as sub rogue is garbage

its even worse then my ele shaman

[tropic pier]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/subtlety-rogue-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

[astral axle]

idk i'm just skeptical that it really needs to be made even simpler. the ppl who like simpler specs have plenty of choices

[fallow nimbus]

Sub got a few things that could be 1 button like flag and blades or sod+ dance

[astral axle]

sod + dance being the same button sounds kinda weird and bad

[lilac stag]

Rogue ST is garbage

Sub is lowest ST spec sim wise at least

[fallow nimbus]

Why? You dance with sod and dry sods are aweful

If you got sod with every dance then it's a win

Also subs base rotation is what's complicated for new people. The fluctuation in resources between cd sets

[tropic pier]

I think its more the rigid cd windows with lots of diff buttons and cds pressed

you play a different class you just have one cd and blast

[astral axle]

yeah so why does sub need to be that?

[tropic pier]

after not playing sub since amirdrassil and playing other classes its actually crazy complex in comparison

[fallow nimbus]

1 dance or 2 dances between cd sets, oh no you lost uptime too bad now your next cd window is scuffed

[tropic pier]

even compared to stuff like WW which has an involved rotation

[mental kettle]

i dont understand this part about symbols optimisation

am i fucking dense or what

10s left of the buff? 10s until it comes off CD?

[fallow nimbus]

What guide is that?

[mental kettle]

wowhead

[fallow nimbus]

That looks like it's supposed to be sectec and not blades

10sec for blades and sod makes no sense because sod duration is base 8secs and blade 16

[tropic pier]

inevitability

[fallow nimbus]

Even then you want to super charge sectec and get blades up before clones hit

That's why we do the flag rup dance sod build sectec blade combo

[mental kettle]

yeah i dont get it

[clever cradle]

i think it's about having 1 symbols charge and blades ready

[astral axle]

i guess having SOD and dance baked into each other just doesnt allow stuff like this which can be an exciting aspect of the spec

[clever cradle]

and being able to blades if your second symbols are 10s off being ready

[astral axle]

just some texture there

[north schooner]

10 secs until SoD is ready. So if you have 1 charge, and the 2nd is 10s away, you can send blades because you can cover it with 2 SoD casts

[tropic pier]

yeah thats exactly why i dont wanna play sub again and i played it from like legion to dragonflight. Im enjoying my ret paladin and fdk way more than that lately

its bloated

[mental kettle]

aha ok this makes sense

thanks @north schooner

whats the optimal thing to do when you have flag/blades 20-25s away but your sec tec and dance is almost ready

do you hold or send

[astral axle]

then dont? xd not every spec has to be interesting to you!

[fallow nimbus]

But wouldn't the text just say 1 charge ready?

[astral axle]

see im glad you enjoy fdk and ret!

but not every spec has to play the way they do!

[tropic pier]

imo its cool if the spec is accessible and more people can enjoy stabbing things

[fallow nimbus]

Can send a naked sectec if you can get enough cdr like with adds up

[tropic pier]

thats why rogue is one of the least played classes now

only assa is accessible

[mental kettle]

what if you are st

or like araz between adds

[north schooner]

if you are close to just 1 dance charge ready and flag is 20-25s away, then you should hold. If you are close to a second dance charge then you can send a dance. Always make sure that your blade windows are not affected though

[fallow nimbus]

Then hold everything

[mental kettle]

ok makes sense i've been holding dance when i have only 1 charge ready

[twin quartz]

If you don’t overcap, you don’t lose anything

[north schooner]

you can send blades with 1 dance and 30-40s left on the second (your CDR will make it ready in time)

[mental kettle]

yeah

that i know its chill

ty

[north schooner]

you get used to the timings eventually. Sometimes you will overcommit dances but at least you learn from it

[mental kettle]

looking at the cold blodded optimisation, you have a super specific and small window to send it outside of blades/flag

[twin quartz]

Play with it and make mistakes. That’s the best way to learn

[mental kettle]

is it worth sending outside or only worth if you can time it right

[astral axle]

may need to double check but i think plenty of top parses in raid at least

[north schooner]

consider CB a 90s ability

[astral axle]

do not bother with sending cold blood

inetbween the big boop

[mental kettle]

ill need to check it tbh

good idea

[astral axle]

like if you mess it up it will desync from when you actually want it

[north schooner]

the damage you can gain by sending in between is very minimal, but if it's not ready for your 2nd blades sectec you lose more than you gain

[astral axle]

and that will be very bad

[clever cradle]

If you send cb inbetween, then blades on cd and proc big time you may find yourself without cb

[mental kettle]

kk super

[north schooner]

high risk for minimal reward (most of your damage is during flag/blades)

[mental kettle]

getting used to play with manual cb now but this is a super easy lineup

now i just need to get taken out of soak groups on araz

so i'm not #12 on add damage

[astral axle]

you can still do plenty of add damage while being on soak group!

just shadow step wisely

[mental kettle]

they are deleted by dk and warrior

even if i build CP and step back, the adds are dead or so low hp that 1st sec tec barely hits

[astral axle]

can send the sectech before you go soak

the first one

[mental kettle]

ah you mean that way

yeah good idea actually

i forgot you dont need to be in melee anymore for the duration of it

[astral axle]

im no god gamer but that first set you can still hit decently hard

timing just kinda tricky to time the sec tech (not too early to hit while immune or too late to miss soak) -> step out and soak -> and step back

[mental kettle]

yeah i need to try that for the greed

i was like #4 on boss dam and #12 on add damage

disaster parse

but w/e

[elder scaffold]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qC6MjhJNCYXjrg5bai87pd
Idk if I am simming this correctly but for m+ is this trinket angle

[frank harness]

You just need to run dungeon slice

Not 5 target

[subtle jay]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hushed hatch]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[daring jasper]

Question regarding gems, do we use only versatile onyx gems and one culminating balsphmite or do we try to get all four types gems as well (i.e. ruby, saph, emerald)?

[lucid jackal]

1 of each yep

[hazy breach]

The haste one is often whatever

But yeah the other ones go ahead

[hushed hatch]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[hushed hatch]

!BS

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[cedar pebble]

guys sorry for noob question but do i lose dps if i have axe in offhand and not dagger? can i even cast my abillities?

[empty plume]

pretty sure it's bad

[wet echo]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[empty plume]

can prob cast your abilities but bad for... shadow techniques stacks maybe?

ah

[raw flicker]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[topaz agate]

hows my sim for my ilvl?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cDAkKcV7Uc1gghTfMUetSi

i feel like im a bit low

but i have no frame of reference

[lucid jackal]

Sub sims low

[topaz agate]

apl bugs?

[lucid jackal]

But you are 709

Nope spex just doesn't do st

[topaz agate]

wait what

but sub is crazy st

[karmic harbor]

check fractilus

[lucid jackal]

No prism low ilvl no mythic weapon

[karmic harbor]

damn i didnt know even assa was ass

[lucid jackal]

Yeah rogue does no st patchwork

[topaz agate]

wait but

sub pops off hard on so many fights

i dont get it

how can it do zero ST

[north schooner]

damage amps

[lucid jackal]

Damage amps and aoe

[pine mirage]

this the m+ build or finality

[north schooner]

and fights with downtime too

[warm depot]

can swap rotten with finality

if you so choose

[pine mirage]

but which is better

or just pref

[warm depot]

pref mostly

[lucid jackal]

It's like the same

[maiden oar]

can also do veiltouched for tornado if u are like that

[warm depot]

rotten makes it easier to apply fw with first shuri

[maiden oar]

some people are like that

[winter ice]

Would pay for someone
To make me this delulu

[raw flicker]

Just a fragment of a parse from a high lvl key player. is this make sense ?

does not worth to wait that SD to do the sec tech after it?

or its just a mistake

[upbeat cradle]

Maybe he had TFD and was still in the first dance ?

[raw flicker]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gqZGvKMVjLWbQ3mH?fight=3&type=casts&source=2&view=timeline

00:51

[hardy cove]

He uses it at 00:40-00:41 and is running TFD.

[raw flicker]

oh, still under effect of the first one

[hardy cove]

Yep. So what @upbeat cradle said.

[raw flicker]

true

thx thx

[lucid jackal]

@warm marlin add it to the list

[tidal beacon]

What do you think I should craft this week 🙂 https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/illidan/Zeleo

I think I am picking up the heroic interloper sandals from the vault to replace my champion ones.

is it still possiable to craft 2 crafted rings with different stats and then recraft back to same stat?

[lunar rain]

am i using prism at the start at the fight? and then wait 3 min for the next one?

or am i using it everytime shadow blades is up?

[lucid jackal]

w/ every blades

unless u want the big prism for later

[tidal beacon]

is it ok to macro shadow sance and symbols of death?

[warm marlin]

wait fire vault

i need that ring

give it

[hallow night]

Would you guys craft a weapon or a 2nd ring here?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rGEczJ274DN5c7g8FxCxUs

I could always get the dagger from loom'ithar this week, or I could maybe get the ring from the first boss (prolly not, more loot contention)

[opal basalt]

how about a belt?

[wispy crystal]

Elemental focusing lens or ascendance + nerubian writhing?

Or is the gain so tiny you won't be able to tell

[fickle mason]

would I take boots or trink, have myth netherprism and ritual forge

[hallow night]

I haven't simmed belt

[fickle mason]

have normal boots

[prime sable]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tidal marsh]

fuck you

(congrats)

[prime sable]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[prime sable]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fickle mason]

Is The First Dance talent so we can fit 2 Secret Techs in our first shadow dance? with second having dance macabe

[frail kindle]

no

[hazy breach]

Press sectech when its ready

[pure yacht]

What weapon oils/stones/bubbling wax are yall rolling in raid

[warm depot]

wax + whet

[regal sky]

for those who flex to ass or vice versa, what embellishments are you running?

[lucid jackal]

probs t he exact same lol

Ascendance band

[bronze canyon]

Guys, how do I use a backstab while dancing?

[short radish]

separate bind

[bronze canyon]

with mod macro? or can you do it without

[short radish]

you just make your stealth bar

the same binds as your regular bar

[nocturne shard]

myth lily or hc forge for m+

what we thinking

[short radish]

whatever the clanker says

[cedar willow]

!CB

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[cedar willow]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[cedar willow]

whats the cb fix when switching from assa again?

[short radish]

!feint

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[dusk stone]

relog

at what ilvl do i swap disc belt i have a myth one waiting atm

[thorny stump]

its crazy how bad my dmg feels yet my parses r still blue XD

[heady shell]

Does forge and prism sim properly with the double on use on raidbots?

[silk kayak]

is there a spot for log reviews or do people just throw their logs in their respective spec disc channel

[tepid trellis]

Yes

[solemn lance]

Is forge and prism the play in all content now? I have both in mythic and the ole antenna mythic

[still depot]

for that ! CB command... i still macro it but put it on a different keybind so i only use it if its my 2nd sectech - is that okay?

[tepid trellis]

Yes

[plush roost]

nerf dk ongod

They cant keep getting away with ittttt

[cedar willow]

And that’s prob with 1 button rotation

[proper vortex]

when is the vault in EU?

what time

[thorny stump]

how tf do i stop my dmg from falling off a cliff in raid when i dont have cds

i guess theres a reason every rogue i see in raid is outlaw LOL

[plush roost]

Weird raids youre a part of if thats the case

Sub just has bad ST and is based alround cds

Sub is great this tier

[pine mirage]

Does sqw matter for sub?

or default is better

[plush roost]

sqw?

[pine mirage]

Spell queue window

[plush roost]

Small window better

i play 180

lets you react to shadowcraft procs better

or double unseens

etc

matters a lot since your globals in cds and dance really matter

[still depot]

whats the command to change it?

/console SpellQueueWindow #

is that it?

hmm ima go try

[thorny stump]

the dmg spikes so much on like araz and soulbinder with aoe

like i litrally beat a 712 outlaw rogue at 692 XD

[lucid jackal]

that is how the spec works

It does 0 damage outside of CDs

its thanos in CDs

[warm marlin]

I apologize for my sins

i have sinned on nexus king

i am a criminal

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

what did you do

what the fuck did you do

oh

[warm marlin]

in my defence

[short radish]

i see what the fuck you did

[warm marlin]

we did not think we would kill

and i was just testing

[short radish]

uhuh

[warm marlin]

"last pull"

it was not intended

[short radish]

just a happy little accidental 18 stack netherprism on adds

[warm marlin]

do u see the flag timings

thats the sin

[short radish]

wait

waht

?????????????????

[warm marlin]

oh thats a log bug

it was 0:01, 2:50, 4:24

[short radish]

yeah

[warm marlin]

and then on cd approx

[short radish]

casual missed flag

i assume because no autumn

i hate that log bug

[warm marlin]

yea and adds will die too fast in farm to wait

prob even for autumn

[short radish]

i dont like this

[silk kayak]

is m frac a good boss to see my general gameplay habits for this spec that is kinda fight independent? I can copy some CD timings for the last two fights but I think I am just failing at something fundamental with the ST because my parse compared to my ilvl is a little doodoo

[warm marlin]

its decently patchwerk yes. most top logs will also be cancelling mechanics with step so its 99% patchwerk

[silk kayak]

I'm going to throw it in here just in case anyone gets to it(and thank you for whoever looks at it):

[short radish]

do a !log

unluggy kill timing

[silk kayak]

!log

[lucid jackal]

I did fast flag on dimesnius and I still missed the sectec on 1 pull

But more consistent

[prime glen]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chrome fern]

what's cursed / forbidden about these timings?

[warm marlin]

Well you’re not casting flag for a minute and 20 seconds

Holding the 1:30 flag for 2:50

[chrome fern]

ahh yep, i mean that's the heroic strat now lol

[warm marlin]

yes but it felt a bit more troll on mythic

Still got a 92 boss damage though

[chrome fern]

fair fair

[warm marlin]

Maybe it’s not too bad

[chrome fern]

dragon ramp timing too strong ig

[warm depot]

is there a way to sim for the nerfed belt

i wanna know if i craft belt this week or not

[copper tusk]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[willow mantle]

!log

any time would be appreciated ^ ❤️

[waxen matrix]

Ive seen in a lot of logs people casting ST slightly before Blades. I know that ST explodes a bit later, but doesnt it also do initial damage? And if so why not have it inside blades?

Can someone explain this to me?

[steel sierra]

Am I dumb? On M salad, how are people getting Flag off in 1min 20sec

[maiden oar]

blessing of autumn

[steel sierra]

Ahh, makes sense

[warm marlin]

its approximately equal to cast blades after sectec but before the clones hit, the idea is that you get 1 more global of blades that should be around the same value as the physical hit of sectec getting buffed

mostly a muscle memory thing from back when blades did not buff sectec

[waxen matrix]

So on paper is it better to cast blades before or after atm?

do we know?

[warm marlin]

they are equal IF you can time casting it after properly

i.e. as close to your gcd being ready as possible

its easier to do blades-> sectec

harder to mess up

[chrome fern]

I just macro both

[waxen matrix]

ok i see. thanks for response :)

[left topaz]

Someone from reddit wanted to see my keybinds so I'm putting it here, not trying to interrupt your discussion.

[rancid crow]

That was me haha

Do you use the action bar too? Or do you keep the default action bar?

Oops, thought I had a screenshot of my sub rogue bars. I’ll have to get that tomorrow, for now you can see my sin binds lol

[left topaz]

I use the consoleport orthodox layout

I think its called

[civic lava]

Wait holdup, i thought all this time that the recommended flask was versatility, it's not the case ? or is it a " sim it" ?

[frosty bramble]

No way you have SBA for assa bound haha

[rancid crow]

It’s not bound to any key I use. I don’t use a keyboard when I play

It’s there to remind me when I need poisons

[left topaz]

Honestly... I could probably rebind my poison key to sba... I didnt think about that... is it smart enough to put wound on in pvp?

[rancid crow]

You do PvP? Or am I tripping

[left topaz]

I mostly pve but I dabble in pvp

[rancid crow]

No it’s not 😂 it just shows the poison icon, and I know it’s time to reapply

The screenshot is a little outdated now, I got rid of obr when I got the poison reminder addon

[frosty bramble]

Tbf I never thought it did that - I just have the “you need poisons forehead” weak aura with 100pt font on my screen

[left topaz]

Consoleport does a good job tho, it gives you like a little opie wheel for your poisons

[rancid crow]

Console port is so good for menus an ui in general

[left topaz]

I just thought might be a fun way to use the one button assistant

[rancid crow]

I think it will always put crippling and instant

[wheat sentinel]

Friends, why am I dogshit at this spec lol https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wgdyHaKY6n4xWLDc?fight=4&type=damage-done&source=9

I feel like I do good in dungeons but I'm turbo ass in raid.

[rancid crow]

Thanks for sharing fel, not many play with controller, so it’s always fun to find people especially in your spec haha

[left topaz]

Ty to u as well. I usually dont advertise and im sure lots of people don't. Sometimes when I do 360's in keys ppl ask and I tell them.

[rancid zephyr]

what do we play in M+? the rotten or finality?

[left topaz]

My char is felygos-spinebreaker US if u want to msg in game or anything. Im probably going to bed tho now. ❤️

[rancid crow]

Same, I’ll hit you up tomorrow

[civic lava]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quartz cedar]

Whats the best belt for sub if you arent getting mythic off of saladhar

[lucid jackal]

plexus

a boe belt

[maiden oar]

can sim it with this string (ill get it in a sec) but for me its been alchemical chaos all patch

#tc-research message

[quartz cedar]

the phasebelt? i do have a mythic one of those. Better than a disc belt already? I assume it will be next week for sure

[frosty bramble]

Just me but start looked ok - later in the fight you didn’t sectec for 1m20s
At 1:35 you started strong but 1:45 you missed your symbols/cb/sectec (2nd) - 2:25 you went sym into sectec into dance where you could have evis then did the right combo - overall dance w/ sym sec would be ideal

[lucid jackal]

at mythic ilvl yeah

[wheat sentinel]

Thanks chief

[kindred stirrup]

Hello everyone, I am helping one of my raiders with Sub rouge and working to improve damage. Upon looking closely on his logs I am seeing he is missing a couple of casts of Coup and ST but not by many (15 casts compared to 17 on ST and 32 coups to 36) but on the Coup de Grace he is losing about 600k dps comparatively. is there something I am missing or is being not taken into account? This fight is done on Loomithar (Comparison is done with similar fight times and no outside buffs like PI with a top 50 log): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VcjH29NpGy3DFtnh?fight=19&type=damage-done&source=3

[empty plume]

coup is the result of RNG procs

and behaves as an eviscerate with +5 combo points, which leads to CD refunding, which can lead to extra secret techniques/dances etc

[tepid trellis]

my DH going to the moon

mythic prism last week now this

[empty plume]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[empty plume]

your guy is using shadowblades at the same time as dance, not capitalizing on Premeditation combo points

looks like not doing coup storm coup optimization, !coup if curious

[autumn glade]

Looks like there's a few times they just don't use their second coup cast either from tier set and it expires

[empty plume]

switching to web tangles like a team player, possibly losing damage for that

this backstab is quite bad, and he did it a few times I think

if backstabbing in dance it has to be the first builder of the dance

well

I guess he is also using blades

so idk

[shrewd lantern]

*swapping because ranged incompetent

[empty plume]

it's normally dance-bs-sectech-blades

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah this is insanely troll

[kindred stirrup]

thank you for all of the info I appreciate it!

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[shrewd lantern]

fulltime FS gamer?

[tepid trellis]

i only touch aldrachi when i absolutely have to

[vale pine]

nice, congrats on the antenna

[shrewd lantern]

they’re patching cycle prestack

apparently

[tepid trellis]

i saw

good

fck that shit

[shrewd lantern]

it was pretty annoying

[wispy crystal]

you cant cast shadowdance while one is active right?

sometimes there is a small gap from the 1st ending to the 2nd one

[tepid trellis]

correct, u cannot dance while dance is up

[fringe void]

Sub rogue is not alt friendly class when you play main Ele shaman. Spamming chain lighting from range without any hassle

[shrewd lantern]

and thats bad how

[short radish]

are you saying that ranged classes have an easier time vs melee classes?

[fringe void]

I mean holding buff, look for charge. Don’t use before 30 sec before 10 sec bla bla bla 😆😆 it’s complicate for someone like me

[tall girder]

Hit buttons win

[fringe void]

I mean for me all my 7 years been playing range ele and mage.

[short radish]

welcome to melee

[native zodiac]

I think sub is generally a bit confusing for people coming from other classes, thats just normal

[short radish]

its rough

[wispy crystal]

when i played my ele shaman.

compared to sub rogue.

its night and day

button light up = press button

[tall girder]

Woo fimb

[wispy crystal]

5M DPS

[fringe void]

Exactly

[proper latch]

Holy fuck... What do I do now?

[short radish]

woooooo jontic

[tall girder]

Im in for first 4 tonight

[fringe void]

And then we see them pumping in Keys’ omg let’s reroll to sub. And doing less dps then tank dps

[shrewd lantern]

lowk what i do

[short radish]

prism probably

as always sim yourself

[tall girder]

There is never a thought about what to do I just hit my buttons right and win

[shrewd lantern]

[proper latch]

I won't take anything until reclear

[tall girder]

And if I lose probs tank or healer fault

[wispy crystal]

for Dawnbreaker, any idea which is the mob i can shiv off the enrage?

[shrewd lantern]

yall have shiv talented

[tall girder]

Hell nah

[fringe void]

From where I can find macro for sub?

[shrewd lantern]

theres like no macros worth using

besides macro racial to blades

[fleet ermine]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[fringe void]

Oh damn

[shrewd lantern]

yeah ig theres that

[fringe void]

Damn a lot of work to do,

Also sitting 3% haste is fine ? Am not lucky with gear

Sub literally sitting at 1% haste

27% versa 101% master 22% crit I got. Look like dream stats

[shrewd lantern]

stats dont matter as much as people pretend they do

haste isnt great thats about it

[glacial kraken]

you should have 500% haste actually

(who will you believe)

[fringe void]

Also I have forge, prisim still not drop for me.. so holding my cds for forge is right thing. To do?

[shrewd lantern]

farm a lily

forge is literally only good paired with prism

[glacial kraken]

u hold forge, not shadowblades

[fringe void]

Ye. So I’ll get hand on lily and better pair with peacemaker till I get prsim right ?

[shrewd lantern]

pace soleah antenna

i mean all are kind of fine

[glacial kraken]

peacemaker?

[fringe void]

Sorry, that improvised pacemaker

[scenic plover]

is there a way to sim the belt nerfs coming next week?

[stone patrol]

How many trinkets? Yes!

[vale pine]

and boom, i am swimming in haste

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

but lets evaluate.
I simply switch the highest and lowest secondary:
Simulation

[willow bobcat]

Same bro

[vale pine]

so while stats on one piece arn't that impatful, you have certain specs like subtlety/outlaw they matter quite a bit

[shrewd lantern]

isnt sub more

haste a stinker

[proper latch]

This is even harder choice

[vale pine]

it was typically like this:

• Outlaw -> Don't get haste or mastery
• Subtlety -> Don't get haste
• Assassination -> Get highest item level

[shrewd lantern]

yeah

[vale pine]

however, even assassiantion has slightly better benefits from certain stats atm, the diffrence is still not that big

[shrewd lantern]

nah between the two prism is better

[tall girder]

mr robot tells me what stats to put on

[vale pine]

the entire topic is just difficult

because item level matters too

like on subtlety

a 720 ring will beat a 680 one with perfect stats easily

[tepid trellis]

we are getting close to the ceiling

[vale pine]

thats very close to bis

[scenic plover]

@vale pine how dead will disc belt be next week?

[vale pine]

its 20% worse

but also

we have more upgrade tracks

[scenic plover]

than now or compared to mythic belt

[tepid trellis]

its dead with a mythic belt already

[vale pine]

it can be worse on heroic already

the additional tracks just mean you likely replace it earlier

[tepid trellis]

714 was when it broke for me

[vale pine]

as well as the nerf

[carmine portal]

Gang what are we thinking

Is suicide an option this week?

[tall girder]

mr robot

[carmine portal]

(i have crafted wrists)

[scenic plover]

i got that mythic belt from first boss on 707 laying around and probably will have to socket that today :(

[tepid trellis]

i stopped using the DISC belt after our mythic saladbar kill

cuz belt dropped

[tall girder]

stam kinda op too

[tepid trellis]

eh so minor

[shrewd lantern]

its like a 30k loss for me

[tepid trellis]

[native zodiac]

707 with socket beat the delve belt for me

[shrewd lantern]

jfc no hole even

[native zodiac]

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i think delve belt is holding up my crit

my sim only wants my 4k crit setup

with disc

and yes i tried simming logic alpha with plexus belt

also a loss

[native zodiac]

4k sounds insanely low even with belt on crit ngl

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i only have 4k base

before antenna or disc

[stone patrol]

wtf

[scenic plover]

sadly loss for me

[tepid trellis]

margin

[wispy crystal]

guys next week, the belt will be nerfed right?

[shrewd lantern]

ok 4k aint shit

[tepid trellis]

yes

[wispy crystal]

so we should get used to using mythic belt going forward

sweet! 701 VS 720 and the 701 still shows 0.6% increase on Dungeon Slice

the 720 just gives so much fatty HP and agility

[native zodiac]

Can also just buy a mythic belt

They are down to like 300k already

[karmic harbor]

forge in my hc slot aha

[limpid sage]

:)

[short radish]

2nd week of tokens

that i cant even use yet

[karmic harbor]

guess its a socket angle for when i replace disc

[scenic plover]

belt socket gang

[short radish]

worst thing is that i can't even use my sockets yet

helm is heroic track

not worth using crests to upgrade mythic belt

[compact violet]

missing araz mm still

[short radish]

and im gonna craft shoulders this week as well

[plush roost]

🙂

i got to sockey my helmet

[short radish]

gz

[tepid trellis]

ring is missing cuz i just sent it in for recrafting

gonna be roughly 722 after crests

[compact violet]

ye im a bit lower, got to much item from mm+ vault

like my 3 first 707 instead of juicy 714

ho im a big dumbo, forgot to switch my embelish after the crafted neck

[karmic harbor]

not in for fractilus this reclear and we're extending next week so ig i just dont get mythic netherprism during prog

[limpid sage]

that's crazy

[winter elbow]

Do I get punished for stacking toooo much of a stat? Do we have something like DR on vers/mast - coz all my items are vers/mast and now i'm worried. 😄

[native zodiac]

Just sim and wtv the robot tells you is correct

Do not judge gear by stat breakpoints

[vale pine]

nicuu

[winter elbow]

Do breakpoints still exist tho? Or is it smth from the past.

[limpid sage]

not for us

I'm sure there are some breakpoints for haste classes

[vale pine]

there was no breakpoint for over 10 years on subtlety, maybe this helps answer your question

[native zodiac]

Yeah for other classes it does, i just meant that in general

[vale pine]

if we talk in general

i am not even sure if its on other classes

[limpid sage]

I mean obvious breakpoints would be something like getting 2k extra haste and just barely being able to fit another ability in cds

[vale pine]

classes with hasted gcd's typically want a certain amount of hate to get more casts during specific cooldowns

but you could also argue, that due to lag and human error

these breakpoints are still set too low

tho rogue has a fixed gcd, so we just don't need to worry about that

[scenic plover]

outlaw has a haste breakpoint

[pearl swan]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aMPMKaDGGtgRrXuJPSQn8w

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

kinda, probably the closest we have to something

[willow egret]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/akxKBN1FPYdw8jVJ/MHArbFZnK36aPYvR?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=3&comparesearchmetric=dps Any tips on how to improve dps please

[limpid sage]

you used all 3 of your symbols after your first global

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[limpid sage]

also your opener is pretty scuffed

I can recommend checking out the wowhead guide, most of the stuff you need will be in there

[north schooner]

imagine if the damage amp and supercharger bonus stacked though

[limpid sage]

[north schooner]

1 billion sectec

[limpid sage]

sending 8 supercharged combo points on first sectec

[north schooner]

take notes for midnight, blizzard

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/todo-truth-nuke-jjk-gif-11709807718918957458

[north schooner]

they will double down on sub's burst and you only get 1 attack per 90s

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-already-dead-omae-wa-mou-shindeiru-fist-of-the-north-star-gif-14326210

[compact violet]

first flag at 6mn uu_u

[scenic plover]

if that attack nukes i am fine with that

[limpid sage]

it will be a 3 part move with 30 seconds between each hit

[lime stump]

Haii guyys, just got the fractilus prism from the camera, was wondering when to use it, should I just link it with flaggelation?

[scenic plover]

camera

[slate lantern]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[lime stump]

thanks!

I didn't know you could do that!

[north schooner]

it does but then you get a 90s debuff called Refractory Period during which you have -100% damage done

[scenic plover]

i am already sold

but maybe we call that post cd clarity and give us way more energy in those 90s?

[north schooner]

more energy and no cd on feint

[limpid sage]

what backstab soup feels like

[scenic plover]

even better, 90s forced turtle + invis on us

[limpid sage]

free tfd reset

[scenic plover]

then you press cds, and go afk for a minute and a half

follow tank macro stonks

[north schooner]

you get a 15 character sequence on your screen and if you input it correctly with no typo you get TFD back up yes

[ivory vigil]

I have a question regarding rupture on sub, single target you should have it up, refreshing it outside of shadow dance, but what about aoe in m+ for example? Do you use rupture on multiple targets? maybe while the tank is collecting the mobs?

[north schooner]

yes

you still don't rupture in dances but you have many opportunities to spread it while the mobs are being gathered

[scenic plover]

woudl that ilvl get rounded up btw?

[scenic plover]

or just a peggle level

[ivory vigil]

even the 719,56 should get rounded up

[scenic plover]

?

i am talking for the 720 ach

not mathematically

[north schooner]

what if you played peggle and the more points you got the more flag stacks you'd have for your CDs

[scenic plover]

sub weakaura creators really sleeping on those 20s ad breaks that could be added in the rotation

[karmic harbor]

dont think ilvl gets rounded up

[scenic plover]

that would be very sad

does 720 achievement allow me to upgrade 714 items for less crests or only if another char has that slot upgraded already?

[queen plinth]

If I don’t get forge this weak I might sec tech my wrist

What would u do if your guild starts progging nexus and u have no chance of killing araz with your alt rogue to get forge mythic ?

[limpid sage]

ikwym

I'm stuck on myth soleahs

[lunar folio]

Hey guys, maybe it's been asked already, I'm terrible with finding it, but anyone got a fix for the Macro of Cold Blood and Secret Technique? It just says Spell not learned for CB. Thanks!

[queen plinth]

I don’t want to play myth antenna it feels awful

Need forge so I can do big dam

Is their pugs doing 4-5/8 runs?

[north schooner]

I would share some trinkets but that would communism sorry

[queen plinth]

Mythic frac

[scenic plover]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[scenic plover]

ah wrong command

try relogging

[north schooner]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[lunar folio]

Tyvm, will try that

[lilac stag]

Not give a shit

Use another trinket

[queen plinth]

No

I want brrr brrr big dam forge

[north schooner]

leave an empty trinket slot to protest

[queen plinth]

Well My guild wouldn’t care cause I play mage on our raid so I don’t have the opportunity to kill araz in reclears atm

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/want-some-tissue-principal-figgins-glee-need-this-you-can-cry-gif-25902522

[queen plinth]

😭

[lilac stag]

You’re missing the sarcasm

[buoyant birch]

when are they nerfing the delve belt?

[lilac stag]

Patch

[keen dome]

Which is next week... With..

LEMIX

[queen plinth]

So Legion Remix comes with turboboost?

Or when is turbo start

[compact grotto]

so what are we macroing cb to now, if anything?

[queen plinth]

Most people play with 2 sec tech keys

1 normal and 1 sec tech cb macro

Since u want to cb the second sec tech during your cds

Or u just play it normally and press it as a normal keybind

[limpid sage]

cb sectec macro to clarify

[queen plinth]

Yes

[limpid sage]

just so someone doesn't do

/cast secret technique
/cast cold blood

[queen plinth]

It has to be the other way around no?

[limpid sage]

.

ye you don't wanna do it like what I mentioned above

[north schooner]

"don't do this" and posting the wrong macro is a sure way to have someone copy this

[limpid sage]

survival of the fittest

[north schooner]

tbh

[compact grotto]

lmfao, gotcha then, ill just bind a second then. havent played sub in years, so situating my bars now

[limpid sage]

imma start posting cursed macros to sabotage the competition

[karmic harbor]

i did a cold blood kick in keys yesterday

💪

[north schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/kung-pow-kung-fu-trained-wrong-wimp-lo-gif-27152837

[limpid sage]

how long was it interrupted for

[karmic harbor]

it just never casted again

definitely gonna see rogue in mdi i think

[queen plinth]

Ngl would be a stonks mechanic

[north schooner]

remember when kick did like 50 damage 40 years ago?

[limpid sage]

would actually be giga cool if cold blood added secondary effects based on which ability it was used on

[queen plinth]

Well we could start dreaming about cool rogue stuff again

Or we just realise blizzard hates us

[north schooner]

CB shroud makes it so that you can skip more than 1 pack in each dungeon

[limpid sage]

true stealth

[autumn pawn]

hey! whats better in m+ high key? tea or cb ?

[north schooner]

CB backstab instantly depletes your key

[limpid sage]

cb is better for prio dmg, tea is better for high target counts

[queen plinth]

Cb blind makes mobs blind af so they start attacking each other

[autumn pawn]

thanks:)

[limpid sage]

also cb is cooler while tea is for nerds

[north schooner]

also the difference between CB and tea is extremely minor, just play whatever you prefer

[queen plinth]

Yea easier to play aswell

[glad raven]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[queen plinth]

Cause ain’t no way it’s not a dmg loss if u don’t watchout for wasting tea during downtime

[north schooner]

it's a dps loss to try to not autoproc it

[limpid sage]

ye I don't get how it's not either

[queen plinth]

So if I autoproc it
And I go int my cds without 2-3 teas u wanna tell me it’s dmg gain to autoproq that shit during downtime

When all we Do is dmg during dances or cds

[limpid sage]

surely it would make sense to bind it to sectec like this instead?

/cast [stance:2] Thistle Tea

[queen plinth]

That doesn’t make logical sense to me

[north schooner]

well, sim says so

[queen plinth]

Wouldn’t be suprised if even sim is confused about sub rogue

Ngl

[north schooner]

if you think it's a sim bug you can always contribute

for now that's more trustworthy than feelscraft

[limpid sage]

not when I'm doing the feelscrafting

[wraith sphinx]

its cause the tea goes cold while ur not drinking it and trying to avoid the auto proc

so its less effective

rly simple

[limpid sage]

^this is true

[queen plinth]

Feelcraft tells me a 100% crit sec tech in aoe does more than 19% mastery

[limpid sage]

tea does go cold when you don't drink it

[north schooner]

cold (not ice) tea is horrible yes

[karmic harbor]

i think i only play cb in floodgate

[limpid sage]

cold blood + tea should give you infinite energy

and mastery

[north schooner]

cb + tea should cancel CB because it warms your blood

[queen plinth]

Watch us get tea and cb in midnight

[north schooner]

that could've been the case if CB converted superfluous crit to crit damage

it's annoying that it doesn't

you have like what, 40% crit more or less as trickster

[queen plinth]

Maaaan sub rogue feels so incomplete

IMO it feels like someone shit on the table and say there u go a rogue spec

[limpid sage]

I'm sitting on 21% crit rn

[queen plinth]

Im at like 17 maybe

[north schooner]

+10% from trickster, +6% if you have Planned Execution

[limpid sage]

wdym +10% from trickster

what have I missed

[karmic harbor]

sub would be fine if there was more leeway during dance and no coup refund bug

[limpid sage]

lol

I forgot that was even a thing

[queen plinth]

Rework rogue

Make it play like Mara from fellowship

[north schooner]

the devs also trolled when they made CB work on any ability instead of just finishers tbh

[karmic harbor]

yes for assa it is just for finishers

no bias here

[queen plinth]

Cb 4 set coup worth?

[limpid sage]

ye it's the same if you have find weakness up I found

(low sample size though)

[queen plinth]

Have never been frustrated in wow btw

Since I play rogue

Im like that the whole time

As mage I just switch spec

And am fine

[karmic harbor]

easiest class ive played is balance druid

most fun prolly demo lock or sub rogue tbh

[queen plinth]

Owl is piss easy

[limpid sage]

fury warrior goes hard as well

[karmic harbor]

i'd main lock if destro didnt exist, fuck that spec tbh