subtlety

[acoustic matrix]

Don't think so, it doesn't allow us to dash through

[north schooner]

it's only when you tp (stealth proper)

[acoustic matrix]

yeah

so if I'm at melee range in stealth i'm actually losing dps ?

I do that on frac dimi cause dashing through is dangerous

[north schooner]

no I think it will still do that 25%

[hazy breach]

You get the damage bonus during vanish either way

[acoustic matrix]

Would you guys take lily or mythic pants ? Pants sim better but I feel like Pacemaker is better in sims than in game since we often don't flag on cd

[lucid jackal]

huh

[empty plume]

are u playing for like... the 3minutes flag seaforium alignment

[acoustic matrix]

that's the thing, I'm often not

In many fight it's better to keep flag for a while and i'm not sure if it will align with cds or not

[empty plume]

couple things:

• I vote pants
• I hate lily (because it has a 3 minute cooldown)
• I flag on cd often

extremely often

[short radish]

[empty plume]

there are fights where double on-use is good, but I feel like araz trinket is better for those

dunno

[acoustic matrix]

Like first boss you delay for intermission, second boss you delay for bl, 3rd boss you delay for adds phase, 4th boss you delay for amp, 5th boss you don't delay, 6th boss you don't delay, 7th boss you delay for adds phase, last boss you delay for amp phase and mechanics

[short radish]

lily doesnt have a 3min cd?

[acoustic matrix]

with prism it does

[empty plume]

lily is used at 0:00, 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and so on

in a boss fight it's not that bad

[acoustic matrix]

in M+ I also often delay cause the pack is just close to die

[wispy crystal]

For soulbinder the add phase is when all of them come out at the same time? The add spawn in middle of room?

[acoustic matrix]

yeah you have to hold 30secs

but tbf pacemaker aligns at 2min

[wispy crystal]

Sure tyvm. This is for heroic right?

I'm only on heroic soulbinder

[acoustic matrix]

yes

[tribal blade]

just don't track pacemaker

therefore it's always aligned in your head

[acoustic matrix]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/soulbinder-naazindhri?difficulty=heroic
Check this if you want to know when to use CDs

[acoustic matrix]

Lol or don't play it ? Would you take myth lily or myth pants in my place ?

[empty plume]

in casual (pug) M+, one passive trinket does quite well IMO

[tribal blade]

honestly not sure

myth lily is way harder to get though

if that makes a difference

[acoustic matrix]

yeah true

loom is actually puggable now

[tribal blade]

oh is it? nice

we've gotten enough ilvl

[acoustic matrix]

Aight freak it i'm taking lily

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah but pacemaker is quite unique as it has a deterministic proc

If it was antenna I wouldn't think twice

[short radish]

just run mythic lily + mythic pacemaker honestly

lily isnt a terrible trinket

[acoustic matrix]

It sims worse than prism tho

[karmic harbor]

i have mythic lily mythic pacemaker and heroic prism

[empty plume]

prism just transcends ilvl track

[acoustic matrix]

and what do you find the most success with ?

[short radish]

on shorter fights it doesnt

which is what heroic is atm

on 4min it's neutral

[acoustic matrix]

Well as long as you can send at 3min you have a full stacked prism

[karmic harbor]

i dont play without prism tbh, im running lily/prism rn because im running that for nexus mythic

[short radish]

yeah but you're also essentially running trinketless for 3 minutes until then

or

with 1 trinket

[acoustic matrix]

Let me sim on shorter fights

[short radish]

like the first 4 fights are now sub4min

same with frac

[zinc scaffold]

How op are double on use (Prism/Araz) on Nexus-King and Dimensius?

[hazy breach]

Not that much better

[karmic harbor]

ive been told their opness is greatly exagerrated

[hazy breach]

Its mostly more pad nowadays

[zinc scaffold]

I was just wondering cause almost all kills on Nexus-King have double on use

[karmic harbor]

loads of classes wanted antenna at the start

[acoustic matrix]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fL6HvdnJZE1XhY6dJRd612

yeah prism is neutral at 4min

[signal gazelle]

Hello there, any rotation guide for single target please?

[hazy breach]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[raven maple]

Apparenly Prism and forge is optiaml but it sims like crap for me, am I missing something?

[acoustic matrix]

How many talent page do you have ? xD

[acoustic matrix]

It's mostly good on amp phases which you have a lot in this raid

[karmic harbor]

a couple

[raven maple]

Im just trying to pull out specific numbers so I can show raid lead as proof of bis

[acoustic matrix]

That's gonna be hard on sims cause you don't have those amp phase. you can show him top logs though

[raven maple]

Hmm okay. Guess thats all I can do

[hazy breach]

Not quite, its good for add phases

During the amps you want prism anyway

And you would get stronger damage in the amps with prism+passive than forge

And short fights before prism has the chance to stack

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah but it allows you to stack it without doing trash damage on your no on use

You send prism on adds anyway

I mean it's fight dependent

[hazy breach]

Its good for damage on nexus king platform and second platform on dimensius

But for p3 on dimensius (which is generally the part where dps matters, as you tend to stop dps on the other phases)

You'd typically do more with passive

Since most guilds are aiming to kill before 3 min

[acoustic matrix]

Passive or antenna specifically ?

[hazy breach]

Either

[acoustic matrix]

Cause not all passives are equal

[hazy breach]

Pacemaker is probably the best

For dimensius specifically

[raven maple]

I don't suppose you know how I could sim it to see how good it is?

[hazy breach]

Wdym

[acoustic matrix]

He wants to show proof to his GM that Araz is worth giving to him

[raven maple]

I was mentioning earlier that I'm trying to see a specific number of how good prisim and ritual is. But if it's only good in certain phases I guess it's not simable?

[hazy breach]

Whats wrong with a regular sim

[acoustic matrix]

Araz Prism is not simming well for many people

[surreal cedar]

I haven't played sub since S1 DF.. is trickster with nimble flurry almost make it better to focus on a single target attack and let the nimble flurry spread damage for AOE???

I think I have been using black powder way too much

[hazy breach]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[surreal cedar]

ty ty ty

[short aurora]

Wasnt there this atleast 4 targets with fw you bp?

[surreal cedar]

I think my issue might be using shuriken storm instead of shadowstrike to build CP

[short aurora]

Ye thats cursed

[surreal cedar]

during dance

so im not building my coup

[hazy breach]

Yeah thats my point

Its fine, but its vastly overglazed

[acoustic matrix]

It does better in game than in sims imo. That's because we don't have scenarios with damage amps or adds phase like raid bosses have this tier

[raven maple]

It sims ass lol

[acoustic matrix]

I guess you could do dungeon slice but it's more adds than boss

[hazy breach]

Sims about the same as passives

[acoustic matrix]

sims well for me
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e8NuaKDeUWrwHMAMMGaosW

[rose kraken]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[raven maple]

Sims -220,322 if I were to replace heroic antenna for heroic araz(I have champ prism for both).

[hazy breach]

Sim it in topgear

[raven maple]

In dungeon slice

[hazy breach]

Droptimizer usually gets a stroke and cant handle double on-uses well

Well yeah in dslice its not simming well

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1417985473544192070/image.png?ex=68cc7961&is=68cb27e1&hm=8074cf01b9872dddd3b06a9d6dc9692969595f062de8bbb604c103f2caf495ae&

[raven maple]

So patchwork? Even tho there's ads in the area's it's good in?

[hazy breach]

Like people do this stuff holding their trinkets for 6 minutes, which at that point makes me wonder why theyre even running it

[tepid trellis]

just dont hold

all gas

[hazy breach]

Well for padding on adds on boss fights

You want prism for the amps anyway

But idk

I cba

[raven maple]

okay it sims better in ST. But not an improvement even tho its bis

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/arFECvCAE8DoBZZxqU4aGh

[acoustic matrix]

Sometimes the meta is not bis

Sometimes sims don't accurately represent what's happening in game too

Showing this to your gm is your best bet

[warm marlin]

prism antenna was great on nexus for me

we had enough add damage already and it gave me more boss dmg

[tepid trellis]

forge was great for me cuz i wanted to pad on platforms

went hard

[raven maple]

Thanks, good enough lol

[hazy breach]

I almost hit 70m on the big momma pull earlier but hc prism keeping me down

Mind if i borrow your mythic one for a bit?

[lucid jackal]

Normal prism ☑️
Heroic forge ☑️
Mythic mount ☑️

[hazy breach]

[tepid trellis]

[signal moth]

@hazy breach what is this opener?

[tepid trellis]

thats the season 1 opener, that goes crazy

[signal moth]

Hes using it this season lol

Muscle memory? 😂

[tepid trellis]

doesent really matter

[signal moth]

Well is it better?

[tepid trellis]

most neutral shit you can find

[signal moth]

Also I noticed some people backstab after every symbols and then some never do it outside of CDs. Why?

Neutral shit too?

[tepid trellis]

you should always backstab in dance as first builder

its like 0.7% to never ever do it

so a bit lower to only do it sometimes

[signal moth]

This log eleem only does it in his CDs

Never out of it from what I can tell

[karmic harbor]

i think if fw isnt up youre meant to shadowstrike

[tepid trellis]

that is true

[signal moth]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Va96PXMgBKhw1vxY?fight=44&type=casts&source=585&view=events

Is it cause he backstabs before every dance?

[hazy breach]

Either fw wasnt up

Or im dumb

[lucid jackal]

bro is pocket watching

[tepid trellis]

nooba

[karmic harbor]

who do i have to spam at blizzard to get the refund bug fixed

[tepid trellis]

the ingame bug report tool

go of king

[signal moth]

I’m just checking eleem as I know he is good to see how I can improve. Just noticed in this one log that he doesn’t do it lol

So is it dance - symbols - backstab or can you dance backstab symbols?

Checking some of my logs and input or latency or something making it switch between them lol

[hazy breach]

You want the symbols before the backstab

[tidal beacon]

is 2 rotations of coup de gace during shadow blades a garuntee if done right?

[hazy breach]

No

[tidal beacon]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tidal beacon]

I see I was missing this entire shadow technique mechanic

do you try and build a 10point secret tech in m+/aoe as well?

[little scaffold]

is there a place to stand so i wont get ported to the middle on dimensius when i shadowstep?

[hazy breach]

Youre not aiming for any number in particular

But no

It specifically says singletarget for a reason

[hazy breach]

No

You have to step somebody else if you dont want to end up there

[open glade]

Friend looking to craft his first weapon as sub, no interest in playing assassin. Wowhead says elemental focusing lens, top rogue players using a mix of other ones but I assume there is a reason for that and not elemental. What’s the right guidance if friend is playing mostly m+ and the occasional raid for loot chance for bis gear

[hazy breach]

It literally doesnt matter

[manic salmon]

guys, has anyone noticed that cut the grass can give you 2 stacks of dance macabre

[hazy breach]

Theyre all inconsequential and pissweak anyway

[dusk stone]

i honestly wouldnt pay too much attention to top logs all that much

they all seem to have no idea of sub TC

[karmic harbor]

They all rerolled from assa and cba recrafting

[open glade]

Got it thank you

[manic salmon]

mages having friends

x to doubt

[hazy breach]

No, do you have a log

[manic salmon]

even better

i have a video

but i could upload it to a log

[steel jolt]

Logs are better than videos

[manic salmon]

basically

[open glade]

Y u say dis

[manic salmon]

if you coup de grace and then enter shadow dance

it counts 1 stack of dance macabre

[open glade]

I heff friend i promise

[manic salmon]

but if you do the 2nd coup, you get another stack

[steel jolt]

Why you heff to be mad? Is only game.

[dusk stone]

that sounds cursed

[manic salmon]

if you do 2 coups normally, both within the dance window, you only get 1 stack of dance

[hazy breach]

Ah the secondary hits give an extra stack i see

[short radish]

oh no

[hazy breach]

Doubt thats worthwhile anyway

[manic salmon]

pardon my UI, i can create a log of this as well

[short radish]

thank fuck

[hazy breach]

Or well, worthwhile to force

[manic salmon]

i track dance in the middle of my UI

check the first 5 seconds

[warm marlin]

completely planned

[dusk stone]

well we add another bug to the spreadsheet

[warm marlin]

the coup dance/symbols cook

gg

[manic salmon]

i saw this during the dungeon i did just before

so i had to test it

[pine mirage]

do we like secondary or main stat food

[short radish]

but secondary

[swift tinsel]

For me I think they’re within margin

[short radish]

i found has overtaken primary

by like 0.2%

[swift tinsel]

I just carry hearty beledars bounty as a convenience anyways

[short radish]

same

theyre so cheap

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, I think I had like 200 hearty ones going into the season

Tangential point, consumable duration should be tweaked so it doesn’t last 1.5 keys

But they probs never will bc it’s a gold sink

[signal moth]

Make it one key

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I wouldn’t be mad with that

[signal moth]

Make it ‘until dungeon completion’ 😂

Every reset on pushing = new food lol

[swift tinsel]

It’s a minor inconvenience but it’s annoying enough to notice lol

[dusk stone]

100% agreed

[swift tinsel]

not inky black potions though I have many thousands of those to sell

[wispy crystal]

How do we interpret this photo?

[muted salmon]

should i be running antenna/prism in raid or forge/prism?

double on use is infuriating tbh especially with how awkward they are

[smoky fern]

i just watched a dimensius rogue pov and it looked like they were almost controlling their shadowstep in p3 to teleport left or right no matter how the boss was facing. how is this done?

kinda similar in p1 too

[hazy breach]

Shadowstepping somebody else

[open vortex]

finally, pugging all of this has been so draining

[muted salmon]

focus macro to shadowstep prob

[open vortex]

idk how people even higher maintain the sanity

[smoky fern]

ah, makes sense thanks

[left ledge]

yes my precious nullbinders

[muted salmon]

is prism/antenna or prism/forge better in raid

[warm marlin]

W nullbinder butchering

[bold mist]

hi gang, starting soul hunters prog, can cloak immune the hunt?

[cyan cobalt]

yes

[bold mist]

o7

[brisk creek]

Do you guys have netherprism macrod with blades? If not how many stacks do you wait until using it?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[brisk creek]

Ty

[fallen depot]

do yall get frame drops on M Soul Hunters?

[muted salmon]

thank you ❤️

[pine mirage]

!vanish

[hollow merlin]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yb6wTAKRWcCfjNLz?fight=last&type=summary

can someone help, I sent my log of the dungeon I just did. any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated

[dusk stone]

anyone having issues with their ui randomly resizing in keys?

[brisk onyx]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[dense mountain]

anyone have their shadowcraft refund sound keep going off during intermission on nexus king?

[short radish]

yes

[buoyant gale]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[open vortex]

yup

[hollow merlin]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yb6wTAKRWcCfjNLz?fight=last&type=summary Not sure what im doing wrong, my dps seems really low for the ilvl. I sent a log of a dungeon above

[dense mountain]

any fix? lmaoo

[charred kestrel]

!log

[short radish]

seethe and cope

[slate lantern]

You really should have an on use trinket as sub. Farm lily, or pvp trinket but ideally you get any netherprism. That will make a large difference in your damage output

[hollow merlin]

Am I making other rotational mistakes or is it just mostly not having netherprism?

[tribal blade]

0.9% wipe on frac

[short radish]

just admit you're really a red name

assi is bugged and you're still going back to it!

also unluggy

[warm marlin]

why do wipes be lying like this tho

[tribal blade]

haha with how badly my guild is doing on the rekill

[warm marlin]

r1 assa is like 5700k

[tribal blade]

we need all the dmg we can get

[short radish]

mage pressing 1 defensive
difficulty: impossible

[tribal blade]

oh nvm then haha

[brittle wadi]

can i ask for some help with subtely rogue i can post my log

[tribal blade]

wait why is it lying then

i'm confused

[warm marlin]

wipe parses be griefing

its trying to hype you up

[tribal blade]

HAHA true

[slate lantern]

You should be casting flag before shadow blades, in almost all windows you're casting them together. Read the wowhead guide on rotation and get that down. Using too much shuriken storm in dance windows, it only should be between coups. I'd you're not using shadowstrike you're not advancing to next coup, less damage. Macro tea to shadowdance, boom you have one less bind. Probably spreading too much ruptures, hard to tell on gather times but you should never be delaying too much to spread rupture

[brittle wadi]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aCRBPgJ8fMjvyFhp?fight=25&type=damage-done&source=14

plz help

[zinc venture]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow merlin]

thank you very much, will fix those mistakes and doing fractillus rn

[vernal hull]

does raidbots just not know how to sim two on-use trinkets? is there a special header to use Lily 2x then Prism at 16+ stacks?

when i sim, it looks like it just never uses lily and saves prism for every 3rd set of cds which is correct, but ignores lily

[slate lantern]

You need to go back to the drawing board on this one chief

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[slate lantern]

Read up, especially the opener/cd window inforgraphic on wowhead and practice on dummies til you can do it in your sleep.

[sullen hare]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[sullen hare]

This macro will probably help too so you don't accidentally double cast symbols

[lofty path]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[tribal blade]

my guild has spent over an hour tryign to rekill frac

is this real life

is the WA boss this hard

[sullen hare]

Painsge

[chrome fern]

kick ur lowest dps and get me in, i need a myth netherprism

[whole patio]

how bad is antenna if you let the orbs come to you lol

[left ledge]

anyone have dimensius damage amp WA?

[warm marlin]

^would be nice as well

[ripe flame]

doesn't the NS pack have one?

[left ledge]

i dont use the NS pack so idk

[chrome fern]

i could try and strip it outta the liquid auras

[warm marlin]

i have liquid pack and theres no timer as far as i can tell

[chrome fern]

hmm

i'll check my other auras then

[tribal blade]

dw we killed it on the worst pull i had of the night where i got mechanics at the worst possible times

and no prisms dropped

[pliant gyro]

hey guys, i am currently using heroic netherprism+antenna. I got Mythic Lily from the vault. Should I get Lily? (I am trying to get heroic ritual forge, will take some time to get mythic version).

I can use 3min netherprism and 3min Lily? hmm

[signal moth]

is there an ability/something that extends symbols/dance when you backstab or I am confusing it?

[chrome fern]

https://pastebin.com/idAc5DWR

from the regular raid WA

https://wago.io/twwraid3

[warm marlin]

inevitability talent

[warm marlin]

not found?

[chrome fern]

how tf do i use pastebin

lol

[warm marlin]

its all good i can extract one at some point

[edgy zenith]

why does shadowstep sometimes knock you back on fract and sometimes not

is it just random?

or?

[chrome fern]

it dis

[edgy zenith]

also, I haven't tried but can you step mid flyback on the breaks or nah?

gotta wait to collide?

[azure mauve]

YO WHOS DONE MYTHY DIMENSIUS

[warm marlin]

we had some p3 wipes today

[azure mauve]

on platform 2

do you send netherprism?

[warm marlin]

prism plat1 forge plat2

[lucid jackal]

skip prism in p1

[warm marlin]

ye forge forge prism forge prism

with the second p1 forge being a shitty second half of blades forge

because why not

[flint furnace]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[flint furnace]

Is it better to run prism plus lily or prism plus antena assuming all on hero track i ran a Sim and its close with prism and antena ahead

[tepid trellis]

fwiw its very quick to make since its already in BW itself (im prolly making one)

also it is already in the liquid pack it just not showing

[left ledge]

tomorrow kill

[tepid trellis]

no idea why its not showing tho

[left ledge]

weird

maybe i have to enable it or something

[kind river]

damn, my stonks are UP right now

got our first forgeweaver kill and then went to fractillus to collect free mythic loot

[obtuse orbit]

black powder or evis for Araz when adds are up?

[deep comet]

Should I be macroing Tea and Symbols into my Shadow Dance?

[worldly remnant]

Tea yes, symbols no

[chrome fern]

if you have to macro it into something, macro it with sectec

optimal is to keep it free so you can pull sec tecs with coups etc

[deep comet]

I havent had it macro'd before so i should be fine, but i havent been using backstab as my first ability off of SD so now its throwing me off

[cosmic ermine]

Hey, I usually run Assassin but decided to try out sub, are my stats okay?

[lucid jackal]

maybe

As long as u dont have a lot of haste its fine

[hushed roost]

!log

[narrow shadow]

Too much haste and too little vers

[cosmic ermine]

that was all from gear stats no chants or gems

[wheat elk]

something like this

tho simming is always the best

[frail kindle]

https://gyazo.com/90dcdd29a52fb17f173d61ac57717ffc

WAY TOO MANY PULLS BUT HES DEAD

[tulip trail]

gz

[teal prawn]

can you ask reemer if he will carry me for free

[wild hornet]

Would the araz trinket be anywhere close to bis at like 3rd/4th spot

[dense mountain]

its only good with double on use

[rigid pasture]

Can someone review a log on mythic frac?

I parsed terribly but idk why

[meager delta]

Is lily / prism good on double use too ?

[vale pine]

nicu, congrats

[vale pine]

its okay, not as strong as prism + forge

[crisp lion]

Grats dude

Was watching a bit tn those low wipes were heartbreaking

[wild hornet]

I already have prism, I can replace cosmic hunt

[azure thicket]

i saw shindigg say to use a shuriken storm during cooldowns, ik that you use it for coup but is that still true or like a rotten optimization or etc

[tepid trellis]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[brisk thunder]

Is it better to stack things like combo points, UB and SHT stacks before sending non-blades dance?

[haughty rose]

i just learned about this and it's hillarious

[cedar iron]

Ye but plexus should loot a belt at some point. Also I had a brain fart yesterday and forgot the crest cost 60.

[near jetty]

is rotten better or the talent we shared here in discord for m+?

[marble sail]

anyone know the rough estimate of dps+ from pot?

[limpid sage]

You can sim it on raidbots with/without

[fathom surge]

hello, i have just started playing SUB but after a couple of weeks trying to learn, I still can not make it. my stats look ok. here is a 2 min try. is someone able to help ?

[hardy agate]

Hi guys how do you manage your cooldowns in m+? Lets say pack is half hp and your cds come up. Do you just send it or hold for next pack?

Im having quiet a hard time since you rarely know your pug tanks next pulls. I feel like sub is not a pug spec

[azure thicket]

if cds are coming in 40 seconds hold

i've sent at 41 and if you're not missing globals it should line up

[narrow shadow]

Is it m+ or raid?

Because if it's M+ you can likely squeeze in one more dance And have both by 40 seconds

Depending on the state of the packs, what pulls are coming, etc

Provided you can also spread rupture on a new pack and get a lot of cdr

[haughty mural]

Clean ui

[daring marlin]

whats happening i am getting no invites

is rogue dead class

[short radish]

yeah

[lunar warren]

Me too, if someone helps you... Tell me know please

[open vortex]

well technically the dead class would be death knight

[short radish]

not according to turn evil

[open vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/wait-nowords-nathan-fillion-nevermind-gif-13280051

[short radish]

idk i just applied to a +15 with the note "wooooo rogue"

and got insta invited

[vestal escarp]

0 invites for 16s

It's over

Literally 4 weeks of glory

[daring marlin]

what should i reroll into

[vestal escarp]

Fdk

[daring marlin]

i have ele alt is it good

[open vortex]

im a big fan of survival hunter

[vale pine]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[vestal escarp]

[daring marlin]

i know my resume is weak, but i expect to get some invites in the mornin

now I have an invite, I will punish them by starting this dungeon knowing food will arrive in 15 min

[tight monolith]

dont know if you got replied to but yeah think you can, I at least stepped our fdk on breaks yday on reclear and dont think it messed with anything and walls still got broken

seems to be safe and also based on stuff I read in this server before but on "prog" I just ate the uptime loss just since I am a coward and just wanted to kill and take no chances

[limpid sage]

fury warr so you can buff your fellow rogues

[civic lava]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[azure thicket]

ye just bank a key higher than ur resil

[queen kraken]

Yo i got another rather stupid question, how do you guys handle shadow technique resets? do you just act with a little delay not spamming buttons in dances? sometimes it feels like the last procc comes in just as u press ur finisher and im already pressing a generator since im spamming and it was at 6

[azure thicket]

realistically im not getting into a 14 without a 14 done

[queen kraken]

the shotgun sound doesnt catch up as quick (also had some weird shotgun interaction on nexus king plattforms...)

[karmic harbor]

damn i didnt even know destro pumped like that

[short radish]

wooooo warrior buff

15 dawny

[shadow snow]

Hello everyone i am trying to go from assa to sub in m+ and i struggle a lot. I am providing here a log from a +10 ecodome to help me understand what i do wrong.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2hYR4AVJ1M3Wjd8p?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=5

[cursive island]

This, i feel you

Those delay are so annoying

[queen kraken]

like especially in flag windows u wanna be as quick as possible

[short radish]

i yell at the screen when that happens

[queen kraken]

ahh

so its just an accept this thing

and move on

[short radish]

some people have weakauras but i dont think they are public

[queen kraken]

dont tilt?

[short radish]

yup

you just seethe and cope

[queen kraken]

f

[cursive island]

When you send SS between coup

And ni you have a pric

ff

[queen kraken]

yep

but i see alot of players just press ss instead of shuriken

like just saw kush do it in a key on a boss

[karmic harbor]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[karmic harbor]

spam ingame reports at blizzard

[queen kraken]

😂

[short radish]

sub is a lot of min/maxxy stuff thats like small 0-1% increments

but in m+

its kinda just

press buttons

do damage

[queen kraken]

hmk

[short radish]

pull big

dont hold cds

[karmic harbor]

i see a lot of players press ss instead of ss between coup

[queen kraken]

how do you handle lasers on nexus in dances? i feel like sometimes i have to accept 1 cast loss or delay the whole dance which means u might drop some flawless stacks

[half plaza]

Hey, any1 can explain me the netherpsim tech to leave dg and 1st pull with full stacks? When to leave exact?

[short radish]

get a better trinket

you have no on use

[cursive island]

https://wago.io/kMjREfxUo
This one might help ?

[short radish]

no idea i dont use it

wait are you talking about the random coup proc

or just

regular shadow techniques

[shadow snow]

i changed that i got myth lily. Still i am behind in dps compared to when i play assa rogue.

[cursive island]

Shindigw use it, itnjust glow when you gonna have a cp refund

Regular

[short radish]

oh

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[short radish]

there's teh refund sound trigger WA

[short radish]

you dont press rupture enough

[shadow snow]

yeah kinda bad in that especially when i spread it

[short radish]

you press it out of dance

[cursive island]

My point is that the sound trigger is delayed aswell

[shadow snow]

does it seem like i am missing any cds? Like i dont press something?

[short radish]

idk it looks not terrible

i dont like shuri tornado but thats tomato tomato

your flurry damage seems low

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/MhYLVr7nRxgfvPBZ/2hYR4AVJ1M3Wjd8p?fight=1%2C1&type=damage-done&source=50%2C5

i also have more black powder presses

even though we have the same amount of evis casts

[limpid sage]

dawn feels amazing for sub

[short radish]

and i also have more rupture casts

[limpid sage]

if it wasn't because of all the bugs I'd love the dungeon

[short radish]

enforced TFD ftw

[shadow snow]

thats for sure

[limpid sage]

fr fr

something I didn't realize when I racechanged to maghar orc yesterday

is how many things you can use nelf racial for

[short radish]

wouldn't know, i'm human

gotta get out of those stuns

[limpid sage]

if only you could pick racials from other races while looking like another

[vale pine]

i don't like the dungeon

people keep flying through boats

enemies keep bugging out

[limpid sage]

yes exactly

that's why I hate the dungeon in itself

but sub dmg profile is just a perfect fit

[vale pine]

just don't run with a arcane mage

they have their cooldowns ready to lower your damage

when you want to pad

[short radish]

[queen kraken]

im talking about any refund in sod cuz its either coup the rnd b***h or u sometimes get scammed by last second proccs of shadow tech which throws u up to 7 when u already thin u have to generate

[snow talon]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[short radish]

fuck mages

[queen kraken]

no fuck evokers

😂

[short radish]

nah just aug

devokers are chill

[queen kraken]

whenever i run with a dev

[snow talon]

why is the suggest to send coup whenever its ready? isn't it beneficial to hold for cd windows if you're not building towards the next one anyway in aoe? (not pressing backstab)

[queen kraken]

they just nuke the shit out of small adds

[solemn sonnet]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[queen kraken]

i think u dont want to overcap energy and just send on 7cp a bs whenever its capping, so ur collecting shadow technique proccs. that just applies to either 10s (thats what the moroes recommends) but i also heard about 20 secs before to hold coup

[limpid sage]

you hold coup for 20 seconds

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[queen kraken]

and u use coups outside of those 20 or 10s for dps and refund cd

[short radish]

@dim adder

[snow talon]

ah okay holding up to x time makes more sense to me thanks boys

[lavish rose]

is there a good way to accelerate shadowblades window for 10s damage amps?

curious how ppl are doing it on forge and dimmy

[queen kraken]

i think theres only either send earlier or just cb the first sectec

[lavish rose]

wdym by send earlier

[queen kraken]

i feel like on forge u can send ur first sectec before the amp starts like 0.5 or so before cuz they then hit into the amp cuz sectec dmg is delayed

[lavish rose]

like just pre-ramp your flag

[queen kraken]

for example

on dimmy i think its just

accept

idk

maybe cb the first sectech

didnt check logs so far

cuz we stuck on king

[lavish rose]

progging forge right now

we havent gotten to dmg amp yet but i want a plan for when we do

[latent finch]

be kinda afk on pylons prestack your stuff and send a bit before the dmg amp start so the sec tec already hits the dmg amp and you are fine

[queen kraken]

depending on raid dps u might need to send just a dance into pylon

even when ur flag and blades are up

but u wanna have everything ready for nuke

[short radish]

i'd rather wipe for 2 hours than send dance into pylon

[queen kraken]

xD

[lavish rose]

kinda feels like i dont need to send anything in pylons

[queen kraken]

ye then just keep

[lavish rose]

we dying to other stuff during intermission

[short radish]

healers heal

[lavish rose]

yup

[latent finch]

locks and sp go brrr

[queen kraken]

i had to cuz our pylon dmg was yikers

[lavish rose]

and tanks tank

[queen kraken]

but when adds spawned

they insta died

😂

[lavish rose]

we had two rogues on one pylon at the start which was a mistake lol

but after that swap it was fine

we have a comp where we cant push adds into the soak so we're just kinda progging the movement

[karmic harbor]

i send dance into pylon sometimes

but we're pretty slow on them get up to ~8 stacks

[lavish rose]

im out of dances after last adds

so i kinda cant

[queen kraken]

we make fimbu very sad 😂

we also got up to 8 or 9 stacks idk

[karmic harbor]

💪

[latent finch]

the second dmg amp in our progress kill lasted like 3 sec was fun

[queen kraken]

but we also got a dk who refuses to play frost and just plays uh

[latent finch]

Pls say the hunter was dead

[karmic harbor]

but they did parse 96 so they must be doing something right

[latent finch]

Bold to assume that the hunters he is compared with are doing something right

[rigid delta]

Are there any sub rogue streamers who upload their mythic kill videos to YouTube?

I know there's shindig but he plays assa on a lot of them

[lilac stag]

There’s a number of sub rogue pov vids for mythic kills. There are not exactly a lot of “sub rogue streamers”.

[azure thicket]

i hit 30 mil on the left path in priory before ripping aggro and dying

[outer goblet]

how do you rip aggro with perma tricks?

[azure thicket]

it happens a lot on outlaw on floodgate

surprisingly

blade flurry rips aggro before threat gets redirected and you get slapped

[fossil forge]

Didnt u just die to spell reflect

[clever delta]

Gramhehe he is nice guy

[azure thicket]

did i?

there's a spell reflect in that pack?

[fossil forge]

Yea the miniboss on the left

[queen plinth]

antenna good in m+?

[azure thicket]

someone else said redirect and i didn't know what it meant

[outer goblet]

left path in prio is not very specific but the priestess there has a reflect

[fossil forge]

U cloak there when in cds

[azure thicket]

there's a weast path

good to know

but yeah 30 mil

[lilac stag]

Yeah that’s not threat that’s spell reflect.

[azure thicket]

but yeah you can go to melee something the tic before tricks converts to a 60m buff and rip aggro

that's what i was confused about

[lilac stag]

what?

[azure thicket]

hopefully bank a 14 halls and start getting invites

really

i play with 200ms though

[vale pine]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[queen plinth]

would u use a 704 forge over a myth antenna in m+?

[maiden oar]

no

[half osprey]

hey lads. how much crit should I run as sub? I currently have 20%

[alpine wraith]

as long as you have more than 10 it is fine

trust me

[lilac stag]

we don’t do break points

[vale pine]

good morning, it does not matter as much

just get crit/vers/mastery and you are fine

[lilac stag]

Avoid haste. Put on ilvl.

[vale pine]

just don't get haste, its not that good

[half osprey]

I raided yesterday, and a rogue had 32% crit - his ST blasted way more then me on crits

[lilac stag]

How far down the mastery 🐇🕳️ did you go?

[alpine wraith]

dont have the gear yet

because i have to craft helmet and wrist and get 2 boe rings

[lilac stag]

or they played better or had better rng. There’s no magic crit number

[junior kite]

Having some trouble with sub wondered if you guys might be able to help, feel like I'm missing something obvious. Moved over from sin so my stats aren't ideal but still feel like I'm missing something obvious, particularly in aoe.

I can't seem to get the CD of ST down enough to get a 2nd one in my SB window

[remote shuttle]

Too much haste, crit ok, very low versa and low mastery

[ornate lake]

Is ST your first spender in your big CDs?

You would normally go flag, rup, dance,backstab(or not),symbol, blades and then ST

[lilac stag]

Post a log. !log

[errant steeple]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[junior kite]

So I don't really care about macabre stacks in that first ST? I'd normally get anotehr finisher in to go into with with like 4/5 stacks

[lilac stag]

You ignore DM

Dance + Backstab is only thing we do for stacks

[junior kite]

Ohhh ok that makes sense, just tried it out now and going SB straight into ST does give enough time for a 2nd round. Will try a key/raid later and post some logs

[ornate lake]

Backstab after dance.

That's it.

Having 2 STs in CDs is much more important

[junior kite]

Thanks all

[errant steeple]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[errant steeple]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[feral knot]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hearty flint]

Hi, quick question in opener is it a dps gain using blades before your first sectech

I’ve been using it after currently as I’m sure I read in a guide, but I see a lot of people popping before

[errant steeple]

if u are talking of shadow blades its mandatory to use it before secret tech y

[junior kite]

It's a damage amp, so definitely want it before

[vagrant fulcrum]

the first hit still does damage

you blades before

[hearty flint]

Fk me

[vagrant fulcrum]

xd

[hearty flint]

I’ve been playing wrong this whole time

[vagrant fulcrum]

it's never too late to fix things

also most of sectec is the clones which you're probably still buffing

[limpid sage]

not mandatory

[hearty flint]

[vagrant fulcrum]

but ye it isn't great

[limpid sage]

you can also send it before your clone hits

[hollow spear]

It doesn't matter

[junior kite]

Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.

Can anyone elaborate on this one a bit, my dumb ass doesn't get it. When it says 'with 4 set buff active' does it mean after your first coup in the 5 seconds you've got for a 2nd?

[hollow spear]

Before or after is the same

[vagrant fulcrum]

yes

[hearty flint]

Ok so

Who is right

🙏🏼😂

[limpid sage]

colo

[hearty flint]

It’s literally my next gcd press instantly after tech

[errant steeple]

quick sim never told me to send it after

[hollow spear]

Have you read the disclaimer?

[limpid sage]

as long as you do it before the 2nd and 3rd hit of sectec you're gucci

[errant steeple]

which one ?

[hearty flint]

Cheers boss

[limpid sage]

the reason you see people do it in logs is muscle memory from when sectec wasn't buffed by shadow blades

[hollow spear]

The one that says that you shouldn't use the quick sim as guidance for your rotation

You trade the extra damage on your first sectec hit vs another global in blades

[vale pine]

alright let me quick explain how quick sim works

[limpid sage]

you could make iterations of the APL that would play very differently but still sim the same

[hollow spear]

Which is essentially damage neutral

[vale pine]

A sim basically does 10.000 figths, the fight lengh varies by ~20% each iteration

the sequence you see when you run in quick sim is one of these 10.000 fights simulated

if you want to be nerdy about it, its the 2nd iteration run

given these 10k iterations, you can have certain problems with the sequence

the actor can have a lot of luck or very bad luck

there could be a very special case where the sim missbehaves, which was not considered in the apl

(which many times does not lead to damage gains, but just makes the sim run slower)

So while quick sim is a good way to look at the rotation

you need to keep in mind that it might have some mistakes due to what i mentioned above

[errant steeple]

y ofc but there is no luck in this opener

[dusk stone]

for mythic soulbinder do you generally hold flag for the big pile of adds in the center? it seemed to work out but i'm not sure

[errant steeple]

like u can do that every try u do

[vale pine]

yes

most of the top logs also hold flag at the start of combat

[dusk stone]

i think its for the second big pile of adds, i have to hold flag for 20 seconds so i wasnt sure

yeah hold flag for 1 dance

[vale pine]

and send a dance blank at the start of the fight

[dusk stone]

i ended up with a heroic forge, aside from last 2 bosses of raid, whats the use case for it?

[wicked urchin]

Have a macro with Sectech and blades and bind for just sectech

Just press the macro before your gcd cooldown is off and blades will go off first

[wicked urchin]

pair with prism

[steel jewel]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[round charm]

Thought all 3 hits do same damage, is the first one so weak that one more evis/ss in blades will have same dmg outcome? 😮

[limpid sage]

the fact that the first one has the lowest amount of flawless form stacks in your burst window and deals phys dmg (iirc?) is prob why

in exchange you get either a turbobuffed evis or another full cp bar

[rancid spade]

in between every major cooldown how many shadow dances can u get in again? is it 2 after first, then 1 after second and repeat?

[hollow spear]

Roughly yes

[vale pine]

ofc you get more cdr in aoe ^^

[limpid sage]

I think you accidentally replied to the wrong one :D

[vale pine]

ohh ye

my bad

wanted to replay to sal

[limpid sage]

but ye I just look at my symbols charges in relation to flagellation cd

with the amount of cdr from extra coups you don't send naked symbols anymore anyway

[wild hornet]

What's the most accurate sim type for soul hunters?

[scarlet oyster]

Patchwerk 3, 6 minutes I'd say 😅

[vale pine]

patchwerk 3 targets

[cosmic shell]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

does heavy movement not work?

or does it just not matter

[vale pine]

doesen't matter for evaluation

[limpid sage]

do you know how to use stuff off the gcd in the APL btw?

[placid crown]

Hello, I don't see the weakening icon of Crippling poison on mobs in dgns, whereas i can see the numbing poison icon. Is it because of my UI or mobs cant be affected by crippling poison?

[vale pine]

yes

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

you add use_off_gcd=1 to the cast action

[limpid sage]

and where do I specify the amount of seconds into the gcd it should be? Just through a condition like gcd<0.2?

[maiden oar]

!feint

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[limpid sage]

damn atrophic poison is horrible on araz

[maiden oar]

is there a way i can figure this out myself

i want to figure out the perfect dimmy feint mapping

guess i could just steal someone elses but id like to be sure its correct

[vale pine]

you juts use feint ^^

and see if it works

[maiden oar]

oh do i have to check log

or can details tell me

[vale pine]

you should notice things on details too, in terms of how much damage you got but log is easier

[maiden oar]

ty

[vale pine]

you can also be stupid like me

and just test stuff on reclears when the pull is called a whipe or just for fun

e.g. i did wonder if i can survive the aoe with feint on moth

i learned that it does more than twice my hp even with feint that pull

[maiden oar]

yea i just wanna be the tankiest guy i can in dimmy p3 and i feel like the devil testing stuff in that situation

i guess i can check peoples logs bc surely some guy has attempted to feint each thing once

[raw wadi]

for every knockback + every antimatter spawn (p1)

[maiden oar]

yeah i just mean p3

p1 p2 is locked

[cyan slate]

hi, where can i get some WeakAuras for sub ?

[maiden oar]

also if i get the answer for every mech can i submit them to the sheet someh9w

[raw wadi]

mhh i did it for rings + groupsoak

[vale pine]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[raw wadi]

but i played with elu

[cyan slate]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[cyan slate]

thanks

[maiden oar]

rn its devour gravity ring and im playing w cheat

vialing ring too

[placid crown]

Sorry to re-ask, can we slow basic mobs in dungeons with the crippling poison? And ultimately, can we stack it with Shiv + Master poisoner extra effects (84% slow) + the Night terrors talent (50% slow) ===> 134% slow in total?

[maiden oar]

but im not sure if i should also be doing the planet pops

[raw wadi]

last rings should be cloaked in my opinion

[maiden oar]

yeah

i plan to when i get there

[raw wadi]

i mean i died to "devour in 0,3 seconds"

[vale pine]

one thing thats somewhat cool on dimmy is

you can still auto attack/attack the boss in p1 when you stand close enough as he starts transition

[limpid sage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/edLQacTZeR1diGy2Goqaz5 @vale pine did I do something wrong or is it just that much of a decrease to use it later

[maiden oar]

u can step when he lifts u up

[raw wadi]

you should load CP + Symbols before intermission

[maiden oar]

and it puts u on the ground

u still go to dragon riding

[raw wadi]

to have big juice pump at plattform 1 😄

[maiden oar]

but it looks really funny

if he lifts u out of melee range its useful i guess

[astral compass]

I'm wondering...why is it that all the top rated rio rogues are running that much vers while my sims are telling me to invest in cit. Is it only because of survivability?

[limpid sage]

OHHH I just realized I need to fix the delaying of flag with 3 sec till sblades

mb

[maiden oar]

did u wait for 2nd nova cast to finish on pargoth platform before danci g

im not sure if thats good or if i should start dance and then step out and storm bp while im forced out of melee

[vale pine]

you can check how its used in the report

[maiden oar]

rn im waiting to run back in and then i pop dance but maybe starting it and doing some bp stuff while im out of melee and the orbs are going and hes got the circle around him is gaming

[raw wadi]

i send 1x Symbols/Dance there (after first knockback)... after that i load for next plattform/p3 amp

[maiden oar]

the nullbinders dont rlu get gripped in until the circles gone and melees safe

so maybe waiting to dance after circles best but ive got no idea

[raw wadi]

first nova you use cloak?

[maiden oar]

yea

[raw wadi]

ok

[maiden oar]

found out u can vanish to remove the slow on first one too today

so strong

[limpid sage]

ty appreciate it

that does indeed help with tc xd

[raw wadi]

thats my most uncomfortable moment of the fight

[maiden oar]

yea i was trying to find a good focus target for step

[raw wadi]

you know "meteroid is coming" and you move and move and nothing happens

[maiden oar]

but vanish makes it comfy

can just walk

[lilac stag]

DKs

[maiden oar]

ud think so but they were sometimes not ahead

i went w my mage

[raw wadi]

i just stepped all the time... will test that later

[maiden oar]

until i tried vanish

[maiden oar]

how much brain power does it take to step over the rings

ive been trying it but idk if i can always trust that my guy will be where i expect

and keeping them in corner of vision maybe too annoying?

[raw wadi]

i tried it -> wiped my group because i had to dodge last ring (got debuff from second) was not in time in front of locus walker with group soak.

[maiden oar]

hehe

[raw wadi]

after that i just took the rings

[maiden oar]

yeah im considering stepping them before 2nd devour and just being normal after that bc the stakes are too high

but i dont want to die and look like a dumb guy

[raw wadi]

yeah just dont step and move with the group

it does not deal that much dmg anymore (with feint)

[maiden oar]

ill maybe just try it if like 10 people are dead

but yea probably can just eat them w feint

[raw wadi]

me first or second progress day prenerf dimensius

[maiden oar]

yea....

[raw wadi]

you should set up Liquid Reminders. Its so nice that you can have timers related to phasestarts.

[maiden oar]

i should

im a ffxiv refugee and this is likr my 2nd tier playing so im just doing what i did in xiv

where id write a macro that echos my timers into my chat and pop a chat tab out into the lower middle of my screen

and i do that now but w a mrt note

i should try liquid reminders but i come from no addon game and im a creature of habit

[raw wadi]

And in my opinion you should try elusiveness because most of the deaths you cant do shit with cheatdeath.
Having Evasion and Feint powered up is way better.

[maiden oar]

i was considering it but cheat helps alot if there are p2 incidents and in p1 i feel unkillable without it

i might try if i feel like its good in p3

but some random thing going wrong in p2 procs it and i live somewhat often which is nice

[hazy breach]

mrt has the timeline thing too

[maiden oar]

oh huh ill try and figure out how to do it

[raw wadi]

true and with patreon you can get dynamic timers on lorrgs also.

[maiden oar]

bc i do feel like im handicapping myself just writing timers on my screen

[raw wadi]

you can TTS 2 Seconds before usage.... its so good

[hazy breach]

But idk i dislike putting everything on like a tts it kinda gets too spammy for me

[maiden oar]

yea im sure theres a balance

[hazy breach]

Esp feint which is pretty much just "feitn when you take damage"

[maiden oar]

but i think its bad for my cognitive load to be remembering all my timers myself

[raw wadi]

cooldown usage for sub is anway pretty straight.
2 usages at P1, every plattform and thats it.

[maiden oar]

and id probably be like 2% better if i didnt think about it at all

[limpid sage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fa7ghQuQMaA5TpccoM65Mx looks like you have to use sblades just barely before the 2 clones hit for it to be neutral to just using it before

[hazy breach]

Yeah my point is that theres barely any timers at all to worry about

[mystic ether]

Can someone help me decide this vault please? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qbsyzNhCAUpYfxRwyUMaJC

[maiden oar]

yea on dimmy i dont think dmg cd reminders are needed

[mystic ether]

I play mostly sub, but would play assa if mythic boss needs it

[raw wadi]

forge

[maiden oar]

except maybe the 2nd forge usage in p1 if u want to be super perfect with it but thats not so bad to do natty

[mystic ether]

Even if I got myth track lily?

[raw wadi]

oh well mhh

[mystic ether]

Take a look* at the options below please

Also, I have hero prism. Wouldn't that make it very awkward to use both?

[maiden oar]

idk actually i think we push fast enough for getting back half of flag 2 + dance into 2nd forge kinda cuts it close on a really gaming pull

so maybe its just flag 2 fast and forge a dance after

6% buff goes crazy

[hazy breach]

Dont you stop dps for like 20 seconds anyway

[maiden oar]

nk

no

we just hit him

well im like farming stuff for platform flag

but people do not care they hit

actual question why do people say to hold til 2:50 or so

is it a healer cd thing

or an unnerfed dimmy cd requirement thing

[mystic ether]

anyone please? 🙂

[maiden oar]

the only person who complained when we pushed at like 2:30 was our evoker wanting stasis

and he said its not that big a deal

[raw wadi]

p1?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[raw wadi]

yes i fly with full cp storage+actice cps+supercharger to first plattform

[maiden oar]

i do like how if u get to a point in reclear where the platforms push too fast u can just not grab the dragonriding orbs

instead of holding

thats kind of clever design

[raw wadi]

imagine full raidbuff+turboseason

[maiden oar]

im scared of not being able to flag plat 2 and amp

i love feeling like im contributing

[warm marlin]

We already have too much damage

I’m afk in my second flag, I hit ranged add the entirety of p1, im skipping dances

I have 4 supercharger, coup, predisorient, 14 sht I’m genuinely pooling for 45 seconds straight

Crazy work

[hazy breach]

It shouldnt be too bad to push p1 earlier so you land around 3 min on the platform

But obviously not something you would change however many pulls in you are rn if youre progressing

But the platforms you kinda cant do faster

Unless you do them WAY faster

Which aint happening soon

[warm marlin]

like 50% p3 best

It’s hold central

[maiden oar]

yea this is more or less how it is for us rn

its fine minus the evoker thing (i dont know what that button does)

[maiden oar]

predisorienting platforms is so cool i have not considered that

so genius guy

[hazy breach]

Later on in farm you can skip orbs so you dont have to stop as much on platforms

Silly boss

[dusty totem]

Yeah is always gonna be an issue with %hp phasing

[hazy breach]

Yeah but also the flying is static

Its gonna take the same amount of time regardless of gear

[warm marlin]

it’s not even a big deal really because you already have coup prepped

[maiden oar]

yea but that is a smart use of hold time to get a tiny bit extra

i would not have had that idea i am too noob

much to think about!

[plush roost]

Mfw boss is 15% and the 4th add set isnt even out yet

Preramp for days

[maiden oar]

yea he punches the ground and hes at like 10%

[sullen yarrow]

hey

[maiden oar]

die noob die

[sullen yarrow]

anyone can review my log

[maiden oar]

i say die to dimensius not u

sorry for any possible confusion!

[sullen yarrow]

wym die noo. 🙁

[maiden oar]

i can look if you want but im not the wisest guy

so it wont be as thorough as it could

[wispy crystal]

hi fellow sub rogues, for soul hunters, which boss do you usually stick on?

[tribal blade]

you want to start on the tank

[earnest prairie]

Darksorrow the vengeance DH boss, it has the most health out of of the three

[wispy crystal]

Darksorrow, got it tyvm!

[tribal blade]

your entire raid should be focusing that boss on pull to even out the hp

[wispy crystal]

also for soulbinder, do we hold our CDs until the adds pop up then we full send?

[tribal blade]

or at least most of your raid

[tribal blade]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/soulbinder-naazindhri check this out

pretty simple

[earnest prairie]

You usually send one Shadowdance+symbols on pull and then once first set of double adds spawns you pop your cds and then it will be back up for the big AoE parts of the fight

[wispy crystal]

yeah i see the top 3 guys holding blades + flag for like 30s

so shadowdance + symbols on pull got it

[tribal blade]

for ook ook parsing yeah

since you're sending your 2nd cd set at 2 mins anyways

[maiden oar]

this is roughly what i did for soulbinder

[wispy crystal]

ya i got to ook ook parsing if not my raid leader may not invite me to mythic raid for low DPS

got to keep up with those frost DKs

[maiden oar]

the dance timings arent exact you want to send the first sectech like the instant the orbs collide w/ the canisters

since they die fast

i think thats the secret to big dam on that fight

like ill usually be at 7 cp and then just instantly dance symbols sectech right when the orbs go

[wispy crystal]

oh so dont want for adds to pop out.
press sTec the moment orbs collide with canisters?

[maiden oar]

i mean the 2 big orbs that actually break it

[wispy crystal]

sick, love that tip

[maiden oar]

not the 5 mini orbs

[wispy crystal]

ya i know what u referring to. this is for mega zug DPS to pad the metres

got to do some padding

[maiden oar]

yea like right this instant

or rather a small fraction of a second before this

[wispy crystal]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/forgeweaver-araz?difficulty=heroic

noticed for forgeweaver araz, rogues are holding flag+blades till the 2min mark (delay 30s)

did i understand correctly?

use on pull.
then use again at 2mins

[maiden oar]

this is a better photo actually

its when i sent the dance

[maiden oar]

for heroic i dont know whats optimal

i think it depends on your killtime

[karmic harbor]

Forgeweaver lust on pull strat is kinda op

[karmic harbor]

Idk about use on pull

[wispy crystal]

ahhh ok ty for the timing. i understand better now

[karmic harbor]

P.sure people send flag at 20s on forgeweavrr

Well 22-24 ish

[wispy crystal]

oh just as the adds spawn?

[karmic harbor]

Yus

[maiden oar]

for mythic yea

but they linked heroic lorrgs

[wispy crystal]

ya i think you are right (this is for heroic)

[maiden oar]

and i think knowing when to send it on heroic is based on when u expect the boss to die

delaying it is good unless ud lose a cast of flag and then its bad and in heroic the odds of losing a cast can be higher

like the top guy on heroic sent it on pull and got an extra cast right before it died

so that was good in their circumstances

[wispy crystal]

oh yes you are right

[stark aurora]

Does it matter if we get stealth betwween trash pulls or only matters before bosses?

[wispy crystal]

its tough to estimate the raids DPS,

[karmic harbor]

it matters for the first dance

[maiden oar]

doesnt really matter but if you want to guarantee first dance you can vanish towards the end of a trash pull