subtlety

[last gate]

its 1 target 20 sec

[honest basin]

What the fuck lol

[lilac pendant]

any tips for dimensius phase 1? im struggling a lot

[shadow lance]

Juste put normal sim a check the duration you want to

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-i-am-dead-inside-depressed-sad-apathetic-gif-15213089479568496581

[honest basin]

Heroic or mythic, and struggling with damage or surviving?

[lilac pendant]

damage

heroic

I feel like i cant never burst

[shadow lance]

Press dance when you can hit boss

[lilac pendant]

like

hit

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[honest basin]

You just press dance when you know you'll have some uptime

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

I mean you can do your full opener

once you land

[velvet hawk]

sorry for noob question, but lets say in a large pull, how many targets do we want to rupture before bursting?

[last gate]

until mobs gathered

youre not assassination

when they are gathered you burst

[velvet hawk]

oo

[shadow lance]

At least, I see you understood the statement

[last gate]

IM A QUICK LEARNER 😭

Just need to know whY!

btw is it dumb to macro my prism with vanish?

[shadow lance]

Yes

You do that on ftb assa

[last gate]

i just dragged it from there

xd

[shadow lance]

It's okay to macro prism on blades

[shrewd lantern]

I just have a use 13 and use 14 macro

on bars as every spec

[shadow lance]

I got a Cd +13 and a cd +14 macro

[shrewd lantern]

no the macros are just

/use 13

and /use 14

[shadow lance]

Yes, understood

I got it for others specs / class

[shrewd lantern]

game needs more buttons tbh

[last gate]

same for my keyboard

💔

[shadow lance]

I just put with cd's for sub

[last gate]

when we pot?

both raid and dungeon

[shadow lance]

Always

How to explain that

[last gate]

macro with blades?

[shrewd lantern]

i have pot on its own bind

[shadow lance]

Yes, sending prism every 90 sec is ok

[shrewd lantern]

i took use 13 out of my cds macro

since prism

now its just shb and ancestral call

[shadow lance]

Unless you wanna hold, so you press just blades

[shadow lance]

I don't get why

[last gate]

btw

does maghar sims higher than Dark iron dwarf?

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah

[last gate]

since dark iron dwarf

thingy

[shadow lance]

Yes

[last gate]

gives us

agility?

[hazy breach]

Its also shorter

Only 8s iirc

[lilac stag]

Meghan best race

[last gate]

OH

[shrewd lantern]

and you get less agi

if you dont cleanse anythting

[last gate]

imma level lots of rogues for remix

this belf

looks ass

and im playing male belf

[hazy breach]

Well yeah we assume youre never cleansing anything

[last gate]

and pepole troll mea

[hazy breach]

Just using for dps

[shrewd lantern]

just get a change

[last gate]

im doing it

in FG

but the ammount of trolls not worth it xd

[last gate]

expensive

[hazy breach]

Idk needing a dispel rarely lines up with blades

[last gate]

im farming my gold for game time

[shrewd lantern]

ngl farming gold for gametime soumds unproductive

if you arent selling carries

[hazy breach]

Would be neat if we got more 90/180s racials instead of having 3 different 2 minute ones

[shrewd lantern]

or ah goblin

[last gate]

im selling boosts tho 😄

before that...

....

herb and minining

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah really depends what kind of boosts imo

[last gate]

key stone crusher by day miner by night

[shrewd lantern]

heroic sale gold is awful

and 10 keys

[last gate]

i just boost 10's

not that bad

as long as i dont beg for game time / consumables

[shrewd lantern]

unless its way more expensive nowadays

[last gate]

(i reached 3k without any potion / food / flask)

[shrewd lantern]

i dont recall 10 sales giving more than 100k ish cuts

[last gate]

4x10 is abou 95k

[shadow lance]

Week 1 of expansion

[shrewd lantern]

christ

that is piss

XD

[shadow lance]

It is

[last gate]

💔

any better idea?

[shadow lance]

I stopped after 6 weeks into xpac

[last gate]

dancing naked in goldshire?

[shadow lance]

Cuz it was way too cheap

Selling vip hc boost

[last gate]

live in a 3rd world countery and its more than the hourly salary of 70% of the jobs

xd

[last gate]

250k ish

[gaunt bluff]

begging on the street for 13 euros for a month gametime might lowkey be better than boosting 12 keys

[last gate]

its even harder here 😂

im even boosting for midnight

so yeah anyway

my st still sucks

[shrewd lantern]

i’d do 8 to get paid filling my vault slots

but anything more is just

no

[shadow lance]

Yes, sadly, we're not all equal money speaking

[last gate]

lol

its a good idea

like 200k weekly + full vault and a happy guild master

[shrewd lantern]

even though now m+ vault feels troll

with raid slots starting 714

[last gate]

isnt it 710?

[hazy breach]

Its whatever level drops from the latest bosses youve killed

So If you kill nexus King its 717

[shrewd lantern]

^

either araz or frac makes it 714

[hazy breach]

If you kill fract or soul hunters its 714 etc

Maybe araz is 14 too

Dont remember

[shrewd lantern]

hard to say

alot of guilds kill frac same lockout

they kill araz

[hazy breach]

Well yeah fractilus is a meme unfortunately

[last gate]

DAMN

didnt know that lol

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i saw a guy pull a 717 forge

from vault

[hazy breach]

Its new for this season

[shrewd lantern]

was probably to address

how bad it felt to take an early boss item

[last gate]

do we have new rating system for legion remix?

like IO reset or something like that?

[shrewd lantern]

legion keys arent legion keys

without gearswapping

[last gate]

well isnt the keys only available for time runnerS?

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah

probably undertuned asf

[last gate]

so we are forced to regear EZ

[last gate]

💔

i miss suffering in DHT

xd

[shrewd lantern]

you were running legion keys

without an opie swapping 7 legendary setups

in a key

also last expansion belf was good

[last gate]

will they bring legendarys????

[shrewd lantern]

F

[last gate]

belf always good
BUT UGLY AF

the female is way tooo small

you cant mog it

you just have to make it naked

and the male...

[vale pine]

bloodelf is still good

undead is terrible for a long time now

but well

[last gate]

literaly me (2x rogue 1 undead 1 belf BOTH UGLY AND BAD )

i swear i will level a tauran in remix

[shrewd lantern]

belf looks good

well fem

[gaunt bluff]

this season dwarf feels so good in m+

[last gate]

try to transmog a belf

and we will talk

[gaunt bluff]

but i have to perma use toys cus animations are so bad for rogue imo

[shrewd lantern]

i have

its one of the easiest

[last gate]

its ugly

female is small like transmoging a chicken

[shrewd lantern]

i use t3

[last gate]

its not even visible

[shrewd lantern]

or

mythic t20 pvp

[last gate]

TOS one?

how tf pepole remember tiers

[shrewd lantern]

yeah

[last gate]

i kinda like the mage tower one also

its white but still cool

im just bad at mogging rogues

daggers are bad

havent played legion sadly

were too young 💔

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah idk

[hexed sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/so-old-gif-27277116

[shrewd lantern]

kingslayer skins are some of the best daggers

[hexed sluice]

reading that has me like

[gaunt bluff]

the ones from this raid are pretty good

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah the wep skins this season are nice

[hazy breach]

Male panda is the best model

Their/lean goes hard

[last gate]

they are nice but tbh compare them to others

like swords / polearms

[shrewd lantern]

only real polearm is cloudsong

[vale pine]

female undead still one of the best

[opaque vessel]

Femsaken gang rise up

[gaunt bluff]

I wish i had that for my surv hunter so bad

[last gate]

Female orc >

should i try kitten?

is it like rogue at any kind?

[vagrant fulcrum]

I’m annoyed that it’s normally a choice between a good model and good animation s

[gaunt bluff]

just do night or belf bruh

both good model and animations

[vagrant fulcrum]

Their animations fucking suck

[gaunt bluff]

nahh

eviscerate animation goes hard

[vagrant fulcrum]

There’s no weight in them

[gaunt bluff]

satisfying af

[vagrant fulcrum]

The model is pretty

[jade oasis]

how come we backstab as our first global in dance b4 blades

dance ?

[vagrant fulcrum]

But the actual attack animations suck

[jade oasis]

macabre?

[vagrant fulcrum]

Premeditation

[gaunt bluff]

I lowkey like male tauren animations too cus its funny he doesnt care about doing any tricks/jumps

he just hits

[vagrant fulcrum]

I liked z troll animations and proportions but both the racial and model somewhat sucked for being a rogue

Undead have cool animations but the models are outdated

Orc is just shit model

[jade oasis]

hmmm

im lost

[vagrant fulcrum]

Your first cp generator after entering stealth (which dance counts as) is guaranteed to generate max cp

You backstab since it’s an extra stack of danse macabre

[shrewd lantern]

it has no reason to go as hard as it does

[jade oasis]

yeye ok

[gaunt bluff]

yeah ztroll is good too

unique for a rogue

[jade oasis]

hmmm so you would also want to

shuriken inside dance for a stack of macabre right? over only building with shadowstrike

even in ST?

or no?

[shrewd lantern]

fem orc has one of the best models

for heavier armor

[vagrant fulcrum]

I fuck with crash of tides on my sv hunter, been complimented for the mog a bunch https://www.wowhead.com/item=165602/crash-of-tides

[upbeat sorrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxgRJhezaA

back when jpc was speaking fluent mandarin

and using the best sub gameplay of bp > ss repeated infinitely

[tribal blade]

wHy ArE yOu UsInG BlAcK poWdEr

WhY aReN'T yOu fUnNeLlIng

[karmic harbor]

that ui is so funny

[lilac pendant]

Bis curios for brann?

[vagrant fulcrum]

Honestly

[upbeat sorrel]

I'm using hatarang and the

[vagrant fulcrum]

Fuck blizzard for the free cleave arms race

[upbeat sorrel]

I forgot the name but it's like bat something

[vagrant fulcrum]

It’s degenerated the game

Legit aoe spells are genuinely viewed in a bad light now bc of it

[plain creek]

wsup with the assa invasion

[last gate]

im in love with remornia (sire sword)

[tribal blade]

sub is a good spec right now

[last gate]

its always good

[lilac pendant]

pet¿

[tribal blade]

HAHA

good one

[lucid jackal]

Its only good every single expansion for prog

[last gate]

tbh ive never seen sub as a bad spec

in any season

[tribal blade]

ok

sure thing

[lucid jackal]

It was kinda shit last season when they buffed sin

[lilac pendant]

classic pve

[lucid jackal]

and it was bad in BFA

But other than that, subs always kinda good

[fossil forge]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[last gate]

its being abused like Blood dk

[fossil forge]

what race has the best animations for rogue gang

[lilac pendant]

what a good question

[fossil forge]

tauren has cncr animations i need a change

[warm marlin]

I like human

draenei kinda nice

[gaunt bluff]

human male, female nelf, belf, ztroll, female orc

[fossil forge]

its either good animations or ancestral call

[gaunt bluff]

pileus delight

[fossil forge]

i use tuskarr mufins

[upbeat sorrel]

Yeah but cow rogue is funny

[fossil forge]

bis

it was funny at the start

now the big ahh tauren is making me annoyed

[lilac pendant]

make urself small tauren

[upbeat sorrel]

Nelf isn't bad

[gaunt bluff]

dude worst feeling is when you use some toy to swap to another race and yr normal hairstyle makes the new race bald or weird

[upbeat sorrel]

My other rogue was nelf

[lilac pendant]

I used vanish on last boss of delve

[fossil forge]

i look like i escaped from mental asylum

[lilac pendant]

I just wanted quick cp

now i have long toilet pause

[upbeat sorrel]

My cow don't look like this

[lilac pendant]

Anyone saw the intellect dagger this season?

[upbeat sorrel]

how did you get yours so frightening

[lilac pendant]

they did us dirty

[fossil forge]

wym

[fossil forge]

just visit barber gang

[upbeat sorrel]

yours is so spooky

is white face paint a barber option

[tame terrace]

do i bp on araz

[fossil forge]

i think so

[upbeat sorrel]

the logs i saw dont bp

[fossil forge]

sync ur second sectech into add spawn if u want to pad

[tame terrace]

less pad more just making sure we kill adds

[upbeat sorrel]

if you do your first flag at like 20s in

your second sectech with CB will hit add spawn

unless you get unlucky with combo point returns

[tame terrace]

ye but i mean for when they dont line

[fossil forge]

go first dance send dance symbols then sit still and start cds 2 sec b4 adds spawn

[shrewd lantern]

female human better

[fossil forge]

and u line up exactly for second sectech add spawn

[upbeat sorrel]

dang i kinda miss when my rogue wasnt a fat cow

[fossil forge]

depends on if you spawn adds behind or in front of portal though

[obsidian crag]

if fighting 7 target max, is it better to use EVIS during dance or should use black powder?

[fossil forge]

!bp

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[obsidian crag]

i do much less dmg on those 5 dummy targets when i switch from evis to bp during dance

[fossil forge]

well do you want to do aoe or prio dmg

[shrewd lantern]

i regret not being into pvp really in mop/wod, enchant is so clean with this set

[fossil forge]

u decide

[lilac pendant]

cant u get it now

[shrewd lantern]

no

[lilac pendant]

and then impornt it when pandaria ends?

when the merge happens

[shrewd lantern]

highly doubt that merge is real

[obsidian crag]

but evis will hit up to 7 targets right? edit: during dance

[lilac pendant]

i mean if people vote it

i voted yeah

[shrewd lantern]

gonna get controversy from people who didnt farm corrupted ashbringer etc

[shrewd lantern]

i do miss being a vampire elf

sometimes

[obsidian crag]

the 60% is the key point here i guess

[fossil forge]

I mean nimble flurry is always #1 in damage chart

It really just depends If you want to prio dmg something or kill everything

[shrewd lantern]

difference marginal anyway

the bulk of your damage is the 2 coup hits+sectech

[obsidian crag]

got it

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[honest basin]

Sorry wc

[covert meteor]

If merge is real, I can get mage tower appearances during legion classic

[lilac pendant]

merge is after pandaria XD

[rigid remnant]

can someone explain me why the shurikenstorm with s3 4piece and shadow blades active is a thing in st?

why is it better then shadowstrike

[solemn sonnet]

its just so you dont proc unseen blade when you cant gain any stacks which is between your coup cats

[swift tinsel]

Had to take my pc in for cpu issue and not being able to play wow for the weekend feels pretty nice

Ngl

[rigid remnant]

thanks

[swift tinsel]

Was the impetus for finally doing a hardcore declutterring and reorganizing of the whole apartment

[split shore]

anyone knows why sometimes when i hit shadowdance, i cant use any generators for a few seconds, 3-4

cant use sstrike or bs

[edgy zenith]

noticed sims is holding netherprism (if you're running single on-use) for 3 mins, is this normally?

thought you just sent every set?

[drowsy moon]

does anyone got a goated playlist for doing keys ...

must be fire

I wanna use it for me stream

[tribal blade]

if i can get hero track 704 forge would it be better to run that over 723 antenna on the last 2 bosses

[drowsy moon]

sennd lnk

please

[jade oasis]

https://on.soundcloud.com/jH5G01iUowrInsAtsr
all my 15s were timed listening to this

https://on.soundcloud.com/ordtWOw3nUQbyH8fcm

[warm marlin]

Antenna is more boss damage

On nexus

I think double on use probably always better on dimmy

Unclear though we’ve only seen platform 2 a couple times

[high void]

does sectech snapshot the buffs when it is pressed or when the damage goes through?

[edgy zenith]

probably for 710, not sure about 704

[tepid trellis]

2nd

[edgy zenith]

speaking about that, do you guys risk the dance in the middle of sectech? or just send an extra generator?

[tame terrace]

wtf sub is busted on araz

[vagrant fulcrum]

let me tell you about smolderon

[vagrant fulcrum]

dg reference, based

[tidal marsh]

let me tell you about zul

[vagrant fulcrum]

let me tell you about shuriken combo

[brisk onyx]

[jade oasis]

best key music

[vagrant fulcrum]

it's either unlistenable for a lot of people or litterally the best shit

got tickets to see bladee in december

[jade oasis]

im seeing them in october

[vagrant fulcrum]

bro my friends and i fumbled earlier this year, he was touring in london but tickets got scalped and it was only him and mechatok listed - my friends and I don't fuck with mechatok outside of like 2 songs - we were fuming when ekko was there

[grand glade]

at how many stacks are we supposed to send netherprism? or is it every blades vs every other blades?

[jade oasis]

every other blade if ur running forge

every blade if not right?

[wooden wagon]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[near hemlock]

so I get we used shuriken stormb etween the 4P procs

but why?

i'm not sure what the advantage is

[tepid trellis]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[daring wren]

!MACRO

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[gloomy cradle]

so anyone using vanish during combat for combo points but unable to shadow strike because it says u must be in stealth? is it a known bug?

[zenith hollow]

these mobs respawn infinitely and you can pickpocket them

infinite waste of time infinite gold

[shrewd lantern]

need to be like en launch where you could pickpocket boes

[zenith hollow]

did they give anything good?

[bronze holly]

Am I dense? I see people saying that bs becomes ss when you stealth, but mine doesn't. Is it supposed to?

[dense mountain]

it does not

[bronze holly]

ok thanks

[hushed roost]

For new character probably makes sense to do dagger --> wrist right both with lens. What should I craft 3rd if I have a champion Mast/Vers neck already?

[empty plume]

I crafted a ring because you're less likely to replace a slot that you need two of

[lilac stag]

If it’s on your stealth bar it does

[hushed roost]

does the ring recraft thing still work for saving crests?

[lilac stag]

No

[hushed roost]

painge

[oblique wraith]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[oblique wraith]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tribal blade]

can you guess what happened in this first pull of 17 priory

hint: if the knight lives forever this happens when you run out of defensives

[wispy crystal]

is the DK just cleaving and not doing priority damage?

[oblique burrow]

I'd say priority dmg the miniboss

[scarlet oyster]

You can los the shout and the spear when the overlap is coming, you have to focus the mini-boss if you are aiming for a good timer / something you will do in higher key

[tribal blade]

he's hitting the wrong mob, the knight is the prio target in that pull

[tribal blade]

yeah maybe, i'll have to look into that

[scarlet oyster]

It's not, the overlap happens on the 3rd shout, it's mandatory to los it on the stair at this moment

And then you're fine

[scarlet oyster]

But anyways need to talk about it before the key to let them know

[round abyss]

Question - so i shouldnt cast any finishers ~10 seconds before my next dance window? did i read that right the other day?

[wheat crypt]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[wheat crypt]

before flag and shadowblade window

[vale osprey]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[round abyss]

that makes more sense, ty.

thank you both

[tribal blade]

mm ok yeah looks like that is the play

could also be a hold evasion for that moment angle too

[scarlet oyster]

Ye but you can't do it consistently, sometimes we need to evasion before when we get shot + sully aoe

Usually at this point I never have evasion anymore

[tribal blade]

gotcha good to know

now time to try to los and run into a trap and just die even faster 😉

[neon frigate]

Hey guys i see people running shuriken storm in m+. Is this good? Plus do you use this with dance and symbols and only in groups?

[ancient olive]

Hey guys, I have a question mostly pertaining m+:
Is there any scenario where you should use Shadow Dance + Secret Technique without Symbols of Death?

[tribal blade]

it's preference, most people choose not to run it because it's a pain in the ass

[tribal blade]

yes if you're capped on dance charges but can't use symbols or else you bork your next cd set

you can send a dry dance w/o symbols

but make sure to energy pool a little before it

[ancient olive]

Hmm. That makes a lot of sense, I've seen times where I'm sitting on 2 Shadow Dance charges but if I spent more Symbols of Death, I'd definitely mess up the next 90 sec full burst window or have very few Symbol charges

[tribal blade]

yeah precisely

this situation will only happen in mass aoe usually

[lusty tangle]

gm do you usually play around the 18 prism stacks ?

[mint violet]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[lusty tangle]

ty

[haughty rose]

is antenna a have and forget trinket like pacemaker or do we play around it by collecting orbs or something?

[vale pine]

maghar orc is currently the highest simming

I'm seeing people say that bs becomes ss when stealthed
You can use a macro to do that

#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab```

[limpid sage]

come to think of it, doesn't forge further the gap between maghar and the rest of the races?

[vale pine]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

Prism + antenna

Forge + Prism

if anything, it seems its less and not more

[limpid sage]

yeah weird

[vale pine]

not rly

prism is strong

[limpid sage]

I'd assume it's more

this does make me wanna racechange to maghar though

[fleet wharf]

Prism+Antenna seems p good for most encounters right? just Saladhaar that benefits from having forge+prism or is it also useful for Dimensius?

[fleet wharf]

I'm thinking about racechanging too. I dunno man, .6% doesnt feel like much but 56k feels like a lot lol

[karmic harbor]

Dimensius is also good for double on use

[fleet wharf]

Could you elaborate a bit?

[karmic harbor]

dmg amps that lines up for 90s and has AoE bursts you need to do

[fleet wharf]

damage amp comes at around 6 min 15 ish, seems like it's not like saladhaar where you want two big bursts up back to back

Anyway, another thing I wanted to ask for clarification on, when using TFD, if the 2nd Sec tech comes back off cd before the dance ends, you pre-emptively use symbols and send the CB buffed sec tech asap instead of waiting for the 2nd dance right?

[limpid sage]

yeah

[cobalt stump]

can anyone tell me why i need to press shuriken storm between coup de grace in solo target?

[fleet wharf]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[fleet wharf]

I figured as much. I was doing some log analysis and that seemed to be what other top sub rogues were doing

[nova cairn]

QQ - when you storm in ST for your 2nd coup do you want it to be 5+cp or 6+ cps?

[cobalt stump]

thanks!

[fleet wharf]

coup damage increase linearly with combo points*, so you send the 2nd one asap esp cuz that's the only time you would storm between coups

but it will be max anyway

because SB will be up

[limpid sage]

ya or 4+ targets

[fleet wharf]

I was mistaken but read the pins, reading be hard yo

[nova cairn]

SB sorry?

[fleet wharf]

shadow blades. it makes all cp granting moves grant max and gives like 20% extra damage as shadow

[nova cairn]

Ohh yes of course

I am big dumb dumb

Gear atm is decent just wish I had the 2 trinkets

[fleet wharf]

it's ok. I also often figure out the answer to the question I ask as I ask it too

[fleet wharf]

the only one you really need is the prism

[nova cairn]

I think prism is like a 110k dps increase for me

Forge seems pretty useful

[fleet wharf]

it's nice to have the forge, but you can kind of get away without it

[nova cairn]

I am clearing araz and frac tonight so we pray

We've had 1 prism drop the whole tier

and 1 antenna

[limpid sage]

you say that, but I miss having burst in opener so bad

[fleet wharf]

just crit 4head

[nova cairn]

I feel like every thing is on really rare without being on it on the loot table

[hollow spear]

I can't wait to replace antenna with forge

[fleet wharf]

I mean even if you get gigascrewed by drops, you'll have it by .5

[nova cairn]

Also sims don't sim 2nd on use correctly does it

[hazy breach]

It does

[nova cairn]

Ohh really?

[earnest canyon]

if coup procs outside of shadowblades in ST, the second coup, we backstab until max combo points then send it correct?

[hazy breach]

It rotates between blades as expected

[hazy breach]

You dont want to let the 4p run out but its fine to send coup at lower CP

[nova cairn]

The sim has to be done through top gear rather than droptimiser I presume

[hazy breach]

Yeah

I cant do much about droptimizer

But with topgear it works

[nova cairn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bH9M54We3jvqWgr1A81K5w

This looks correct I think ye

I am in m+ talents but ye

[wispy crystal]

Argh always the guys doing 1.2m DPS on frsctillus that wins the trinket roll

[oblique burrow]

Someone offered 600k for the trinket on fract

[fleet wharf]

If it wasn't on the main, I'd prolly sell it for that price

[oblique burrow]

True, and the main tank got it from the rolls

He was happy to sell it for that much lol

[limpid sage]

ya lowest parse always wins

[wispy crystal]

Yup , what's the point of putting in so much effort carrying the raid

Btw where can we see top rogue logs ?

Like rankings on bosses etc

[fleet wharf]

I mean that's the drawback of pugging

[oblique burrow]

Warcraftlogs

Lorrgs

[oblique burrow]

In guild its the same

[fleet wharf]

Sub should be pretty high on the prio list, no?

[oblique burrow]

Always the RL or RL's girlfriend who gets the tuff

Stuff*

[fleet wharf]

well there's your problem lmao

[oblique burrow]

Assa and sub rare pretty high yes

Are*

[fleet wharf]

I dunno man, try to find a guild that prioritizes efficiency over social connections for prog?

[vale pine]

prio for what?

[fleet wharf]

prism

[vale pine]

prism is a sub trinket, so sub should have highest prio

outside of that, not rly

[fleet wharf]

I've seen mms froth at the mouth for the trinket too

[keen dome]

No other class benefits as much from it, iirc

[vale pine]

^

[wispy crystal]

Why are sub rogues so low?

Heroic prism dropped today and the the assas rogue took it. Saying it's BIS for him in my guild

[vale pine]

also most other classes did not have it on their tier lists

[oblique burrow]

Mm are ready to sell their parents for it

[vale pine]

up till recent

😛

[oblique burrow]

It is BIS for ass rogue too

[fleet wharf]

rip. they should sim better tbh. Like hero lily is just as good for assa. Nothing comes close for sub

[oblique burrow]

True like 0.7 percent difference

[wispy crystal]

Warcraft logs showing that sub is bottom 3 on plexus sentinel what...

[vale pine]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fleet wharf]

if you're walled by plexus, I have news for you...

[vale pine]

prism is like 0.2% above lilly

[latent finch]

sub rogue has not the greatest singletarget. Which is completly a no issue if half the raid is like hand made for sub with add spawns and dmg amps on nearly perfect timing 👍

[vale pine]

so its not as "Bis" as for sub

[wispy crystal]

Okay sorry I'm new to rankings.

But how are sub rogues compared to other classes on raid bosses?

[oblique burrow]

Prism and antenna then? Why not forge ?

[keen dome]

Also, like. Look at the median of those rankings

[wispy crystal]

Oh such a small increase over lily? Didn't know that

[vale pine]

well getting mythic lily is not that easy

but in general, subtlety can utialize it the best

[fleet wharf]

you can check this page out, play with diff buttons at top https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/44

[limpid sage]

did they make backstab crits apply fw from the front on frac and dimensius btw?

[wispy crystal]

Do you mean heroic prism is 0.2% more than a mythic lily?

[fleet wharf]

https://bloodmallet.com/ use this to help yourself next time

[keen dome]

Sub doing pretty well imo

[limpid sage]

idk about well

[keen dome]

And then if you compare the tails on the upper end, it's all pretty balanced.

[limpid sage]

but they're not entirely poo

[feral bluff]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[wispy crystal]

Does anyone run cursed stone idol?

[short radish]

https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/

[wispy crystal]

Had it drop yesterday but gave it away to a tank

[fleet wharf]

I tried for a bit, don't bother

[vale pine]

no

[fleet wharf]

@wispy crystal this is what you should've showed and argued it should go to sub

[dreamy badger]

Normal prism sims better for me than myth lily

🤷‍♂️

[fleet wharf]

Prism is also better than what it sims for because you can abuse the 18 stacks in so many different fights

[vale pine]

why so complicated, when you can just:

[short radish]

what do you use for that?

[vale pine]

the build in winsows snipping

[wispy crystal]

Yeah but it was free roll, oh well better luck next time

[vale pine]

it is what is mentioned in the article

[wispy crystal]

Equally skilled fury warrior Vs sub rogue.

Fury warriors does more single target damage right?

[fossil forge]

Nah fimbul are u still running Windows 7?

[short radish]

you think i've read the article?

[short radish]

yeah

[fossil forge]

lowkey bring back wind 7

Most goated Windows

[keen dome]

Nah, Windows XP

We have to go back

[fleet wharf]

win 10 patches/support going away in a month no?

[limpid sage]

yes

[vale pine]

win +shift + s
but you can just set it up to print in the settings.
But the article then pastes it in paint and snipping tool

instead of just... paste it wherever

[keen dome]

Wait you can set it to printscrn?

Damn that owns I should do that

[fleet wharf]

how do you do that? I'm also curious

[fossil forge]

Idk isnt it a default Windows feature now

Or is it just for 11 idk

[vale pine]

yes, easy to find setting

[keen dome]

Hero, thank you

[wispy crystal]

In my mind I keep thinking sub rogue is top melee DPS.

Until I see fury warrior and realize I feel like a peasant

[fleet wharf]

so w11 only feature? I havne't upgraded yet

[wispy crystal]

They don't even need skill to do high damage as fury lol

2 button rotation or something

[vale pine]

i am on windows 10

[fleet wharf]

nvm

i found it thanks fuu

[keen dome]

Yeah, I don't see it on 11 🙁

[fossil forge]

Nah but fuu the sub support, tech support, sim support

🐐

[fleet wharf]

dunno, typing in screen snipping brought up that option. If you're stuck, you can find it under keyboard settings it seems like?

[keen dome]

I found it

It's under Accessibility -> keyboard

Damn this owns

No longer do I have to open paint constantly

[fossil forge]

Careful because If you screenshot someting in game rn it will freeze for a sec

[keen dome]

Makes sense

[vale pine]

its rly handy unless you use a very small keyboad size

like 60 or 65% usually don't have print (usually need a function key for it)

[fossil forge]

i need all them buttons

[keen dome]

Means I don't have to open paint and crop stuff

[fleet wharf]

What's the appeal of those tiny boards? lighter to carry around?

[keen dome]

Desk space, too

[vale pine]

better for keyboard turning (i am joking)

[fossil forge]

Takes less space

Thats literally just it

i hate small keyboards with a passion

[vale pine]

main benefit is that you can reach certain keys faster and only have the keys you rly need/use set up

drawback is, certain keys need a function key or multi key combo to set up

[wet echo]

more mouse space, especially for shooters

[fleet wharf]

like only for tactical shooters where you want lower sens because ttk is low?

[vale pine]

its fairly common in shooters too

where you often use custom keyboards

[fossil forge]

Yo brevs i lowkey found a gold glitch

Reselling hc boe rings is insane hustle rn

[feral bluff]

are we sending netherprism every 1.30 cd or holding for every 3mins?

[fleet wharf]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[vale pine]

and can then mix switches to have diffrent feedback

e.g. you can have switches that activate faster, have a more cactile feel etc.

especially if you use wasd for movement, mabye want to have other switches for the keys

[keen dome]

Ye, they're huge 'cos they have so much stat. I assume just mindlessly farming BoE groups?

[fossil forge]

No

Go on wowpay2win

[vale pine]

that sounds like a scam site

[fossil forge]

And buy out the cheapest usually into flip it

Nah its legit for boes

[keen dome]

Nah, it's a global list of AH stuff

[fossil forge]

https://www.wowpay2win.com/?tier=t43&region=eu&boes=238036

[keen dome]

It's a terrible, TERRIBLE name but it's a legit site like Undermine Journal but explictly for BoE's

[fleet wharf]

is it true global? I thought NA and EU weren't the same for AH

[vale pine]

interessting

[keen dome]

The site lists global but you have to pick a region

[fossil forge]

I made like 2 mil in the last 2 days

[keen dome]

the 'ol flippity flip. I made my first million doing that with transmog

[fossil forge]

Just selling crit mastery rings

[keen dome]

But ye I get the hustle. Since you can put gold in warbank, go to another realm to buy the item, put it in warbank, sell on X realm, etc

You can do it with battle pets and other shit super easily these days.

[fossil forge]

Exactly

[keen dome]

It's really good

[fossil forge]

Im thinking About buying the 9k crit ring when it drops in price

Its 5 millly atm

[inland plinth]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[keen dome]

Most of my gold is earned via idling and doing crafting but flipping always has a soft spot in my heart

Argent Dawn transmog flipping was such an incredible time pre-Legion haha

[sly kindle]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[gaunt bluff]

why do people still use avoidance enchants if we have feint basically 24/7 in m+?

i felt like leech would be better

[keen dome]

Because they're cowards who fear the almighty power of SPEED and GOING FAST.

AoE damage can't hit you if you outrun it

[fleet wharf]

I'm thinking about switching my wrist enchant to speed actually

[keen dome]

I imagine it's an attitude of every little helps but I'm of the mind speed -> all

[fleet wharf]

do you also use movespeed jewel thing?

[keen dome]

Because leech is w/e and if we're rotting down it won't help enough. And Avoidance is so minimal these days that being able to move out of something faster is probably useful

[keen dome]

Yep

[fleet wharf]

yea, I might do that too

I did it last season but I became chickenshit and went with the "right" thing to do

[keen dome]

The damage on the 0.15 crit one is nonsensically tiny and you won't run different gem sets anyway so just zoom, 2% speed good.

[fleet wharf]

more like 8%

[keen dome]

All my gems are the same so only 2% here haha

[fleet wharf]

i dunno man. 0.6% crit damage sounds nice tho

[keen dome]

But i have 14% speed anyway

[keen dome]

It's exceptionally small

[lilac stag]

Ask the raccoon why he has leech

[keen dome]

He's smarter than I could hope to be so that's probably why

[lilac stag]

hah

I just happen to notice it.

[fleet wharf]

but yea, I also have like a stupidly high vers on my char, I dont know how good avoidance would be for me actually

[lilac stag]

I’m a slave to speed enchants

[keen dome]

Glorious numbers

(+2% speed not showing up so 14% total)

[lilac stag]

Not 34% crit. gtfo

[keen dome]

I'm working on it!

[high copper]

why is there no good sub rotation explanier video on youtube? all of them are just saying what it says on wowhead without much explanation or are straight up uselss

[keen dome]

Shindig has a really good video

[lilac stag]

What more explanation do you need?

[keen dome]

But ultimately it's a ton of work to produce and update versus a text document.

And the guide on WoWhead is extremely good (So are the other two)

[high copper]

wdym what i need? i need someone to actually play the spec and show it live not just regurtitate what wowhead says, i just learn better like that

[fleet wharf]

but you can get hundreds of views slaving away hours of your life into it

[lilac stag]

just randomly firing off on shit not explaining what you don’t understand or what’s missing isn’t helpful

[keen dome]

So you want them to simply play the wowhead guide

BEcause the wowhead guide is what you'll be following regardless.

[fleet wharf]

use a macro bro

[keen dome]

Just go play the spec, push the buttons.

[vale osprey]

I get where he's coming from, if I were you I'd watch the shindig guide a few times and then watch some of his vods, on easy bosses too so it's easy to follow what he's doing

[lilac stag]

I mean you’re watching an ability timeline. Which I’m pretty sure Wowhead and iv have pictures for

[fleet wharf]

Don't actually use a macro, I was meming

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lilac stag]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[fleet wharf]

this can teach you tbh if you're struggling with the written guides

[keen dome]

Also asking questions is a good idea, because people can talk and walk it through. But it has to be an actual question and not a screenshot of details asking if this is accurate without any context.

[high copper]

i dont understand when to actually use shriken storm for aoe and when not to properly. Do i just spam BS/SS evis during flawless form and then switch to shuriken storm/black powder without?

[fossil forge]

What flasks r u guys running rn

[lilac stag]

I get people learn differently, but videos with just reading it allowed ain’t it for this spec. You need to understand the why

[hazy breach]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[fleet wharf]

that's a minor piece of optimization. Forget it for now imo and focus on fundamentals first

[fossil forge]

I wqs simming and chaos simms most but i feel like running crit is the best option ?

[lilac stag]

You only use it as a builder between coups in dance. Otherwise you’re are only using strike

[keen dome]

I still use chaos

Nothing sims better for me so I just follow the clanker

[fossil forge]

I have way too low crit

[fleet wharf]

I feel the only other argument might be fore verse flask if you're scared of dying?

[lilac stag]

if you get a refund you just send back to back coups and continue with strike

[vale osprey]

Sure but the robot told you chaos is better???

[fossil forge]

Yea but the damage change is minimal and u get more coups with crit though

[hazy breach]

You would not get more coups with more crit

[vale osprey]

"hey guys what flasks are you running?"

"What robot tells us"

"Robot tells me not to use crit but I like crit and I will continue to do so"

"Ok"

[lilac stag]

welcome to class discord

[fossil forge]

First day ?

[vale osprey]

As someone said I often run Vers though it's a very small diff on my Sims but defensive value on Nexus King is nice

[fleet wharf]

I mean blindly following something isn't good. I dont think it's bad to ask around for opinions & knowledge

[lilac stag]

never trust the clankers

https://tenor.com/view/roger-roger-roger-roger-that-copy-that-robots-gif-5912820

[vale osprey]

Absolutely, but then to turn around and be like "cool imma do this anyway" is not that

[high copper]

what about black powder?

[lilac stag]

4+ targets

[lilac stag]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[fleet wharf]

I thought it was clanker and not clacker

lmao

[hazy breach]

But chaos provides notably more during your potion burst which is important

[lilac stag]

4am phone fat fingers do happen

[fossil forge]

imma just run the haste flask atp

[fleet wharf]

based

[vale osprey]

Ong, haste flask + pi

[earnest canyon]

if we accidenlty go into a dance/symbol combo with full cp, do we still backstab and waste the cp or just send secret tech

[fleet wharf]

send and then backstab

I thought it wasn't damage loss to go into dance with full cp, can someone clarify?

[hazy breach]

Its not, either is fine

[wispy crystal]

If we have a coup proc ready, and dance is 10s out. Do we hold it and wait for dance e.g. use rupture to reduce dance CD?

Or just send the coup whenever it procs, regardless of combo points ?

[lilac stag]

@high copper if you’re trying to avoid being overwhelmed learning everything. Break it down into parts.
1 - Figure out the 8 globals of shadow dance.
2 - then figure out how to add the opener / burst to that knowledge
3 - then look at what you need to have ready for your cooldowns again later in the fight (holding dance / sod) for flag/blades.

you can practice dance window way more often than just trying to repeat the opener on a dummy

And it should make adding in the opener stuff easier

[void ocean]

and write WA 😄

[fossil forge]

yo chat how do dmg on tetris boss

[vale osprey]

Do you guys play sub with the default value of GCD thing (can't remember what the option is called) or with a lower value? Sorry if I've explained that badly, I just feel like sometimes I'm accidentally missing CP resets and therefore wasting a global

[lilac stag]

You’ll likely need to adjust it. Look at Quazii YouTube on spell que. Maybe 3 months old

[fleet wharf]

Coup seems to fuck up your SHT refunds

[fossil forge]

people cant see logs if they are private even if i post them right

[vale osprey]

Ty I'll check it out, I feel like I am actually pressing a finisher instead of another SS but my SS has been queued already

[lilac stag]

We each spam abilities differently so you have to sort out what you need without losing globals

[fleet wharf]

Didn't the advice basically come down to mess around in 50ms increments to see what works better?

[lilac stag]

And how do you know which works better?

[fleet wharf]

by seeing what you intended to do actually happened or not?

[limpid sage]

Most likely just better killtimer or proc variation

[lilac stag]

That’s usually not the problem

[fleet wharf]

I might need to mess around with it too

[lilac stag]

It’s losing casts

[fleet wharf]

we're talking about spell queuing window right?

[lilac stag]

Mmhm

[fleet wharf]

so what leads to lost casts?

[lilac stag]

a wrong window time

[fossil forge]

it took us 5:07

so thats quite long

[vale osprey]

Good for sub tho

[limpid sage]

SQW should be above 1000/[button presses per second]+ping

[lilac stag]

still can happen with a “gcd locked” spec

[fleet wharf]

I notice similar things Riltro is talking about, in that case, do I lower or increase SQW?

[vale osprey]

We'd lower it, I'll have a play tonight and see what feels best

[fleet wharf]

I might do tests too, but yea, I'd appreciate an update. Cheers mate

[vale osprey]

At least in my case where I'm swapping to pressing a finisher while I still have CP buuuut I'm a bit too late for my queue window and so the SS is locked it

[fleet wharf]

what does SS stand for there?

[vale osprey]

I'll test and let you know, no expert though! I'll just do as Scath said and watch the Quazii video and have a play

[vale osprey]

Shadowstrike

[lilac stag]

His video goes over all of it. Quazii video

Not Kalamazoo

[fossil forge]

could be shadowstrike could be schutzstaffel

you never know

[lilac stag]

Intentional typo

[fossil forge]

🕵️

[fleet wharf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ4gVn2W8v8

[karmic harbor]

you gotta do a little bit of griefing

a little tomfoolery

[fossil forge]

is that the move

[karmic harbor]

just a little

[vale pine]

the video is wrong iirc

[vale osprey]

I did a lottle bit of griefing

[fossil forge]

i started doing the disorienting strikes cheese and its 🔥

[karmic harbor]

@fossil forge are you stepping back to boss on knockback

[fossil forge]

yes boss

[karmic harbor]

hmmst

[fossil forge]

always

[lilac stag]

How so? He plays on both oce and na and goes over how to troubleshoot it

[karmic harbor]

bad rng unlucky

[native hawk]

a lot of the breaks dont need a step back to boss rly

just the ones in cds

[vale osprey]

Bad brain unlucky (also 4:37 kill time)

[fossil forge]

idk my rl assigned my position in front of the boss so i always shadowstepped to the front

[native hawk]

unless nobody is dying to circles then just do it every time ofc

yh mine was the same but I just sat in narnia if I got a break hahaha 😭

but we had a lot of circle incidents

[fossil forge]

we had 2dks on the left stacking on top of eachother with ams

lot of space

[lilac stag]

Fuu coming in with its wrong (likely without watching it) take.

[vale osprey]

Both me and the other rogue just sat on top with feint

[fossil forge]

fortunately im the only rogue

all daggers for me

[nocturne birch]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[gaunt bluff]

swap to assa and turn off brain

[fossil forge]

i never played assa

i am learning outlaw atm

[gaunt bluff]

assa is my worst spec by far and beyond but my first log ever playing fatebound was a 99

[crisp idol]

fent is nice

[gaunt bluff]

fatebound is legit 5 buttons including cds

[fossil forge]

bro is waiting for midnight boost

[crisp idol]

oh you are talking about feint, mb

[gaunt bluff]

[fossil forge]

wtf sigma

[gaunt bluff]

(was first boss cus on frac i already had a bit of xp)

[distant canopy]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[potent breach]

does sub have any bugs like assa does?

also why on the aoe opener on method guid does it want us to start with shadowstrike + eviscerate before SS and spreading ruptures?

[limpid sage]

To get slice n dice running

[tribal blade]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[tribal blade]

sub has always been more of a buggy mess, sin just got a lot of attention over their recent bugs

was interesting getting guildies coming up and asking me if sin was really bugged

[hot creek]

what this is ? didnt know there is a cheese (also maybe why i log green ?)

[tribal blade]

and i said "yes, big bugs, but sub has had em forever and nobody knew"

[potent breach]

ah ok thanks

whats the best way to use vanish? outside of dances to get a free shadowstrike?

[tribal blade]

yeah there's a few different ways to use vanish

one i started doing was vanish>storm between coups outside cds

so you can get a full CP tier set coup off instead of like 1-2 CPs when you're low on energy

[outer goblet]

I like that

[tribal blade]

honestly not sure if it's better than vanish>strike

but it's used outside cds so it's nbd

[vale pine]

the reality with bugs is

[tribal blade]

doesn't make a big difference either way

[vale pine]

the ones that matter are the gameplay affecting ones

[neon wagon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

i know people talk about dps mostly when thinking of bugs tho

because i feel like most of the discussion is just "we would do more damage than others without bugs"

[tribal blade]

i think the biggest sub bug atm is shadowcraft refunds

[vale pine]

and thats tuning...

shadowcraft refund delay is the most annoying

[tribal blade]

yeah it doesn't feel great

[vale pine]

and for assassiantion, the most annoying is the tier bug for fatebound

the rest is just dps

[tribal blade]

i think the momentum one is pretty bad too

[vale pine]

like, nobody complains that CT does not get the correct damage reduction

because it means it does more damage

its not even on the list of bugs in the pin

[tribal blade]

but yeah the FB tier set bug is REALLY annoying

[vale pine]

agree

[potent breach]

i macro tea into my dances, meaning all 3 charges get used pretty quickly. Is that ok? Or should I be manually using them so I always have 1 up (as much as pssible) per dance?

[tribal blade]

it's a pretty major bug

[vale pine]

yes thats fine

the shadowcraft refund bug

[potent breach]

thanks

[vale pine]

does cost us a lot of dps

because we lose casts in dance

or waste procs

[tribal blade]

yeah losing casts in cds is so bad

yeah trying to predict the refunds is turbo cursed

[vale pine]

its just not as obviouse

[nova cairn]

I have to agree the amount of times I have pressed strike and before the global goes off I get a refund

[potent breach]

srry for the questions, switching from assa and havent played sub since shadowlands - should you ever dance + symbols with full combo points? I've been (mainly in ST) between burst windows backstabbing to full, then dance symbols and having a full combo secret technique ready

[tribal blade]

i'm not sure if this is a latency thing on my end, but coup takes too long to proc

like when i proc coup it's not instant

[junior lintel]

yo guys, can anyone tell me why someone is not running the rotten, but a single point in finality instead?

[vale pine]

perfectly fine to do so on full combo points

[potent breach]

or is that bad due to the dance macabre dmg thingy

cause ideally should I be dancing, casting a backstab and at least a shadowstrike before Secret tech?

so maybe dance + backstab then finisher then SS then technique?

[tribal blade]

if you run enough crit finality becomes better than rotten in aoe

[junior lintel]

Thanks! Is there any kind of breakpoint?

[tribal blade]

me and someone else in here compared our builds, his sim prefers rotten and my sim prefered finality

the difference was i sit at 30% crit and he's lower

[tribal blade]

honestly no idea, you can sim and see for yourself

[lilac stag]

Imagine being below 30% crit this day and age

[tribal blade]

but i think the sim difference between rotten and finality in aoe is pretty small

you can use either or and it'll be fine

[junior lintel]

Alright, thanks! ❤️

[nova cairn]

From what I understand there’s 2 ways to dance (someone tell me if I am wrong)

1. Full cps Dance symbols sectech bstav
2. No cps dance symbols bstab sectech

[tribal blade]

finality might have the edge on bigger pulls because you're buffing BP more

rotten only affects nimble which is hard capped

[vale osprey]

I'm starving out here, 25k mast, 25k Vers, like 6k crit or something?

[lilac stag]

Juiced BP pulls on gambit

[potent breach]

hm ok thanks

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/will-ferrell-confused-math-huh-what-gif-10118626

[tribal blade]

oh yeah sexy

[potent breach]

wouldnt casting a shadowstrike and backstab before the secret tech be better tho due to the macarbe stacks?

[tribal blade]

goddamn ok your sim will be starving for crit

whoops replied wrong person

[vale osprey]

Need to get some more crit, it's probably a ring or neck craft angle next week

[vale osprey]

Yeah it's my highest DPS per stat ATM

[tribal blade]

try simming again, i'll bet everything the robot will want crit bad

ring off 1st boss is really easy for that

huge crit

[lilac stag]

Run CB / rotten and sim likely lowers suggestions for crit

if you were running finality from the get go, it more than likely pushed your gearing more towards crit / vers

it’s all minor for the most part

[potent breach]

so does anyone have an answer for how many dance macarbe stacks you should have before you secret tech in dance? Or should you just use tech asap to get it on and off cd as fast as possible?

[lilac stag]

Imagine thinking you’re the only one that needs that ring

[vale osprey]

Yet to get one, but yeah that'll solve a lot of it for me

[lilac stag]

The guides all show the dance rotation

[potent breach]

im aware, but im wondering if there's ever a macarbe stack cap

that you want to aim for

[lilac stag]

you don’t care about macarbe

[potent breach]

so why do we backstab in dance then?

[cunning notch]

yeah i also dont really know why backstab over Shadowstrike in dance if not for Danse Macabre

[lilac stag]

You backstab for macarbe. That’s legit the only management for it.

[warm zinc]

Its only for macabre, cause backstab will get you Full combo points as First builder

[lilac stag]

you’re not playing around it

there’s no min maxing Sectech at the end or whatever else

[cunning notch]

okok

tnx for clearing that out

[lilac stag]

whoops weird ass reply out of nowhere. sorry mate

guide is quite clear about why you're doing it and what the sequence of Dance is

[fossil forge]

can you make a macro that changes the spell when you enter stealth

like backstab into ss

but a different ability

[potent breach]

doesnt method guide say to evis during dance before secret tech too tho?

[vale pine]

i have a "explenation" section in the opener on wowhead

explaining each step

[fossil forge]

i am a bit slow when it comes to macros

[potent breach]

additionally, is this backstab for the dance macarbe stack only during major cds? Or also during in-between dances, like during dances outside of shadow blades

[vale pine]

but all 3 guides should be very similar/the same

[lilac stag]

[potent breach]

hmm it says to use evis before if you dont meet the "requirements for secret technique"

[cunning notch]

how does Dslice work ? does it take all the dungeons or just one ? and what route / packs does it do ?

[lilac stag]

that would be a priority system

[cunning notch]

i dont understand

[lilac stag]

which it lists