subtlety

[shrewd lantern]

you just follow sims

jewelry with high haste is almost always a loss

[marble sail]

ik, i just dont have the copy paste for it

[shrewd lantern]

however

[lilac stag]

#tc-research

[marble sail]

w mans

[azure crown]

so basically no one can tell me shit, thank you.

On assa im doing 30m dps on 5 dummys

[warm marlin]

my 691 arcane just beat my best 715 sub parse on loomie heroic

[marble sail]

if u want a reference im doing close to 30m burst and holding around 15m with best in slot gear

[azure crown]

while sub is supposed to be bursty class i get only 15m opener

[lilac stag]

Have you tried learning how to play sub?

Or you just a washed up pirate?

https://tenor.com/view/jacksparrow-sinking-gif-19769322

[marble sail]

he might be a literal god on arcane

we will never know

[azure crown]

isnt assa supposed to be bad and sub strong

[warm marlin]

real and true

[marble sail]

[narrow shadow]

What no

[marble sail]

brother they have 0 hp

literally in constant execute

[warm marlin]

spec is kinda insane tho no?

my gear is trash

[marble sail]

when is mage not

[azure crown]

im doing 16m burst and holding 8m

[marble sail]

then there is a chance ur doing something wrong, post a log from a key and we can check

[quaint lodge]

ngl sorta scary that ur 75 parsing 20 ilvl below, think that goes to show the average mage player lmao

[shrewd lantern]

chat what happens if i hit dummies at 0% hp

as a spec with a 35% amp

in execute

[shrewd lantern]

have you seen dh players

[azure crown]

i just done a key in floodgate where i overall 9m as assa and did only 5 as sub

[marble sail]

then ur bad at sub

[quaint lodge]

Post a log man, you're just playing sub really poorly LOL

[narrow shadow]

Assa is easier

[quaint lodge]

ngl every havoc i've seen is a demon

[vale pine]

it is overall easier to do damage on sin

than on sub

[azure crown]

hmm i guess i will practice the rotation more

[marble sail]

i mean if ur doing 5m in floodgate u really do

[quaint lodge]

Im making it happen

[marble sail]

[keen dome]

Don't forget to include ten backstab songs

[shrewd lantern]

when i pug on my alt at 706

and the othr 4 do have 4p

[quaint lodge]

im working on it

[marble sail]

we need a outside of cds playlist aswell

[keen dome]

Hahah

[marble sail]

its just 100 backstabs

[keen dome]

Every song called backstab ever

[fossil frost]

So we only do shuriken storm during Coup de graces during shadowblades, right?

What’s the real benefit of that? I don’t understand how the unseen blade bug thing is a dps loss

[quaint lodge]

i mean lowkey i can finish it out I think, let me just find coup and evisc

[cobalt stump]

thats insane bro

i cant stop laugh

[vale pine]

nice, eviscarate is missing

[cobalt stump]

ahahaha

[keen dome]

Lol that rules so much

[vale pine]

shadow blades too

[azure crown]

so what do u do to have more bursty opener

[shrewd lantern]

5m in fg as sub means severe gameplay issues overall

you could do more never hitting bp

[keen dome]

Post a log

[vale pine]

i don't think it helps by saying something is wrong

most of the time its easier to go from a log or vod

[keen dome]

Random dummy stuff is never going to get good feedback because it doesn't provide good data to feedback on

[shrewd lantern]

log generally

[azure crown]

i just started sub today

im trying to figure out the buttons still

[keen dome]

Read the guides, practice it

[shrewd lantern]

random dummy burst isnt gonna show anything

[quaint lodge]

guys is coup de grace

Without an e at the end

it is just coup de grac right

[vale pine]

like inherently, the problem with postiing a screenshot from details

[azure crown]

thats how i learnd assa

[keen dome]

Perfection 10/10

[shrewd lantern]

also isnt alchemical chaos better

[quaint lodge]

winning

[vale pine]

is something most know if they are not new to wow, so i assume you are very new

a screenshot of a damage breakdown simply does not provide enough information

it does not show rotational mistakes

[marble sail]

thats a great addition actually

[vale pine]

neither does a breakdown of damage rly show you if you made mistakes

[azure crown]

i need to figure out how to get the most damage out of my rotation, i will figure out the rest

[shrewd lantern]

thats why you log

[vale pine]

if you need to figure out how, then read the guides

practice on a dummy

[marble sail]

why figure it out urself when smart people have already done that on the guides

[vale pine]

do some dungeons

[marble sail]

[vale pine]

or a raid

and log the fight

if you know how the spec works, you can analyze your logs yourself

but if you don't you can ask in here for help

for rotaitonal questions, its easier to just ask specific things

i also get a lot of dm's

[shrewd lantern]

fuu is it a loss to storm between coups with only 3t if i have enough sht to have a full bar

with one storm cast

[vale pine]

asking me

"what do i do wrong"

and they don't give me anything

not even a screenshot

[marble sail]

i mean the only answer to that question is not posting a log

[vale pine]

if you ask, well how you play

"i play like guide, no mistakes"

[keen dome]

Time to read minds, fuu

[shrewd lantern]

mr guidewriter how do i convince the game to give me 6 ub resets on first add spawn

on araz

[vale pine]

and i haven't found out in all the years

[shrewd lantern]

[vale pine]

how to answer this correctly

because unless there is a log

[keen dome]

I know how

[vale pine]

or anything detailed

[azure crown]

Is it possible im loosing so much dps on burst cuz of my trinkets

[shrewd lantern]

no

[vale pine]

losing means you had it prior

and not now

[azure crown]

im talking from my assa burst

[keen dome]

This is sub

[shrewd lantern]

assa and sub use same trinkets

so uhh

[vale pine]

assassiantion and sub have the same burst in single target

[shrewd lantern]

wot

[quaint lodge]

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5vtC0QZ4KOPWF0UcSK3NG2?si=472579e217a64592

Okay its done

[azure crown]

there must be something wrong

[marble sail]

[vale pine]

haha, i love it

[keen dome]

Post a log my guy

[azure crown]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cJX8RiYdcFSQi6TBRrKRRn

[shrewd lantern]

no one cares about the gear

its a play issue

[keen dome]

Why are you swimming a 5 patchwork fight lmao

[vale pine]

you have prism

so your burst should be good

[azure crown]

why isnt it simming great then 🙁

[vale pine]

because

[azure crown]

my assa is doing double

[vale pine]

how do we kow what mistakes you make

in terms of gameplay

from a simulation?

[frigid prawn]

!trinkets

!trinket

[keen dome]

5 patchwork 1:30 sim

[vale pine]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[azure crown]

I want the peak of my dmg

so i know what im using

[marble sail]

has to be a troll

[vale pine]

ohh

i already see the problem

[shrewd lantern]

yeah so post a log

[vale pine]

why didn't i think about it in the first place

[frigid prawn]

@vale pine the one command where it explains how to use trinkets correctly? :c

[vale pine]

is it possible that your dummy is in perma execute

[shrewd lantern]

assa is one of the easiest specs

[vale pine]

!prism

[keen dome]

Yes

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[shrewd lantern]

to do basic damage on

[keen dome]

They mentioned it earlier

[vale pine]

maybe

[keen dome]

But also the SIM they're using is useless

[vale pine]

he is using a dummy with perma execute tho

[azure crown]

I mean ive done 40m on moma

[vale pine]

and wonders why sub does less

[azure crown]

and the most burst ive seen on sub so far is 20m

[vale pine]

i mean

[keen dome]

I think you should read the guides, practice and then post a log

[shrewd lantern]

post a log

[azure crown]

stop with the logs dude, i want to know what sub does under 30 seconds

[keen dome]

And also stop simming 5 patchwork 1:30

[azure crown]

not in 30minutes

[shrewd lantern]

flexing peak burst numbers is so weird

[marble sail]

30m dps

[shrewd lantern]

especially since assa takes 0 brain

for it

[vale pine]

i mean

you can go up to 80M dps

[azure crown]

how

[marble sail]

by doing the rotation

[vale pine]

skill issue

[quaint lodge]

😭

[vale pine]

like

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah idk i hit the church db miniboss for 25m

that was only 3 mobs

[marble sail]

imagine what u would do with 100 mobs

[quaint lodge]

i think my pc might explode

[shrewd lantern]

we love the fat 18 stack prism burst

[vale pine]

dps especially on details is a scewed metric, it only measures uptime

[keen dome]

If you hit shadowstrike harder it does more damage

[vale pine]

and for rotaiton, you pre stack prism to 18

and do your burst sequence

have rupture up on all targets

before so

[shrewd lantern]

Is it time for my daily shill

of cb’s superiority

over tea

[vale pine]

reset your detials before doing the burst sequence

[shrewd lantern]

[vale pine]

if we only measure short term burst, setup is important

[marble sail]

im cb enjoyer and im cranking hog in keys

[keen dome]

I should go back to CB in keys

[azure crown]

huh

let me try

[vale pine]

also if you want to cheat burst

get 7 stacks of supercharger

[marble sail]

[vale pine]

get disoriented strikes up

[shrewd lantern]

lmao

[lavish acorn]

how do i

do

[shrewd lantern]

what the helly

[lavish acorn]

560m mythic king

platform

then i go random heroic

and do 950m xdd

[marble sail]

skill issue

[lavish acorn]

goddamn it

[marble sail]

[keen dome]

Everyone else doing less damage

[vale pine]

but i don't rly know what we are discussing anymore

[keen dome]

So you do more damage

It's just maths

[shrewd lantern]

i thiught you can only bank 2 supercharger

on pull

[lavish acorn]

well doesnt matter in mythic tho?

[vale pine]

yes

but he is doing dummy stuff

[lavish acorn]

should be even contrary - should be more in mythic because it lasts longer

[vale pine]

you also can't pre stack prism

[quaint lodge]

showed my friend the rogue playlist, he sent me a warlock one back

[vale pine]

as prism resets on boss start

[keen dome]

I'm shitposting I don't know

[vale pine]

disoriented, you rarely can get

[shrewd lantern]

i forget which ability that is

[vale pine]

because turns out, most whipes are not directly after you cast secret

^^

[azure crown]

28m

[vale pine]

but if we just want to compare the biggest possible burst in 30 secs

[azure crown]

i will try again

[vale pine]

you can cheat as much as you want

[marble sail]

[keen dome]

Don't forget to get all the raid buffs

[marble sail]

what is this dummy burst showing

[keen dome]

And someone to cast hero when you burdt

[narrow shadow]

I this is some trolling or something

[marble sail]

must be

[keen dome]

And pi I guess

[vale pine]

i am not entirely sure tbh

[keen dome]

There's more we can stack

[marble sail]

its a crazy good troll if anything

[azure crown]

i just want to decide if i should commit to sub or stay on assa

[marble sail]

with how u speak stay assa

[narrow shadow]

Or go fury

[vale pine]

^

[keen dome]

Well you won't find out this way

[marble sail]

maybe new bm is good playstyle

[vale pine]

playing assassiantion 100% is the better option for you

[keen dome]

Because you are doing something utterly pointless

[shrewd lantern]

The negative brain effects of extended periods of assa: a case study

[vale pine]

if you only perform 50% of the output on sub

there is no reason to force yourself to play sub

if you can't perform

[narrow shadow]

One question: What motivates you to try sub?

[keen dome]

You could use those delve buff items too for even more burst cheating

[shrewd lantern]

some streamer played it

i bet

[marble sail]

u could go to like mop target dummies and do like 4 trillion dps

[azure crown]

i changed from outlaw to assa and now i find it annoying changing again but cuz meta

[keen dome]

Ah, the meta

[shrewd lantern]

5h a day in casualaddict stream pov

[marble sail]

no rogue spec is meta

[keen dome]

Genius

[narrow shadow]

If anything Assa is always the most meta

[vale pine]

isn't there still the

moral booster dummy in zuldasar

[azure crown]

hm 41m

getting better

[marble sail]

actually getting worse because ur focusing on the wrong stuff

[vale pine]

like inherently, if you want to learn subtlety

[keen dome]

This is entirely pointless and has no real world value

But number big good

[azure crown]

exactly

[marble sail]

??

[vale pine]

this lines out the rough cooldown managament

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah rogue meta

[vale pine]

https://www.lorrgs.io/

[shrewd lantern]

nice joke

[narrow shadow]

When we have raid buff

[vale pine]

^ this website is insanely helpful if you want to learn how to play bosses

[keen dome]

We have a raid buff

[keen dome]

No other spec has as much downtime to post puns to motivate your group

[vale pine]

XD

[keen dome]

The quicker they kill the boss the sooner they are free from the puns

[marble sail]

im so geared they cant afford to bench me

[keen dome]

So much pun power

[cunning notch]

what build do u guys mostly play in m+ ? ive been trying

• Tea with double finality
• Tea with 1 finality
• Tea + the rotten
• Cold blood + the rotten

is there a superior one ? or is it more play what feels good ?

[shrewd lantern]

i spam lyrics to ram ranch in macros

[keen dome]

You could drop the big stuff like is ravioli a poptart

[shrewd lantern]

while in downtime

[marble sail]

im more of a go onto netflix and swap shows during downtime

[vale pine]

all the mentioned are close enough to pick your preference

[eager locust]

does coup de grace count for dance macabre?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[cunning notch]

allrighty !

is finality mostly for more aoe ? and Cold Blood for ST ?

[shrewd lantern]

where tf do all those builds come from

[keen dome]

The internet

[eager locust]

interesting, i guess if i have a coup ready and im sending SD + SoD in like 10 seconds I hold it to send after sec tech?

[vale pine]

cold blood is better for single target and cleave, tea better for consistency and aoe

[cunning notch]

mostly looking at raiderio what people are running and checking archon and wowhead

[shrewd lantern]

I feel like the only relevant switch up from raid builds

is have replicating

everything else largely irrelevant

[cunning notch]

gotcha tnx

[narrow shadow]

I play tea just because vigor makes downtime slightly more bearable

[honest basin]

I'm too lazy to swap to replicating for keys ngl

[eager locust]

is this correct?

[shrewd lantern]

People play tea to press more buttons

for less results

[honest basin]

I just play my raid build and when I do 3mil more DPS than everyone else I pretend I'm some sub rogue sage that knows everything

[shrewd lantern]

unreal

[shrewd lantern]

kind of is the raid build no?

[honest basin]

In reality I'm just spamming shadowstrike black powder

[shrewd lantern]

just swapping pe and imp sht

for replicating+x

[honest basin]

Yeah I literally just don't do that bc I'm lazy lmao

I don't even take numbing cuz who the fuck cares

[shrewd lantern]

I think thats literally the only swap i do

is those 2

[honest basin]

Press button do big dam

[shrewd lantern]

Only reason i have different builds

is i dont use good health pots in keys

[honest basin]

I'm also too lazy to swap my pots so I burn through like 100 r3 tempered pots and 100 r3 invigorating healing pots a week

[shrewd lantern]

yeesh

im cheap in vault keys

wax+r2 whetstone

at most

[karmic harbor]

st build sims higher than the wowhead m+ build for me in dungeon slice

[honest basin]

I just don't wanna carry a bunch of bullshit around tbh, I already waste so much of my week filling vaults and shit lmao I just wanna get in and get the shit done

[shrewd lantern]

there is one nice thing about sub in vault keys

because pugs always have

that one dps who does literal tank dam

as a spec that is good at st

i should not be top dps on 1t as assa

[honest basin]

Bro every single key someone is like "how tf you do 5m DPS on boss" my brother in Christ I'm in my raid build, the cleave is granted to me as a free gift from the hero talent tree devs

[shrewd lantern]

i mean we can end 5m on 1

if the boss dies shortly after a set

[unique hornet]

Hello guys, how important is it to sync CD? How many seconds do we need to delay and sync to make it worth ?

[slate lantern]

that is the whole spec

[frank narwhal]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest basin]

Flag and blades are both 1.5min and you use flag like 3~ secs before blades iirc so they should always be synced unless you fucked up

[slate lantern]

you need to make sure that you're not using shadow dance, symbols of death, and sectec too much in between because you shouldn't delay your cds at all

[honest basin]

If they're not synced you hold as long as you need to in order to press blades with your first sectech after flag

[runic hull]

should I use anythign 30 sec before my cds are back? like dance symbols or sec teq?

[shadow lance]

Yes, no, it depends

[honest basin]

At 30 sec before CDs you stop using dance symbols and sectech, at 20 if you have coup you hold it, otherwise at 10 sec you just kinda sit there and backstab

[queen plinth]

you can not tell me 6.26 for a 16 gambit is okay

[shadow lance]

Not really

[queen plinth]

im doing something wrong 100%

[shadow lance]

If you got 2 stacks up 30 sec before baldes, you send a dance

[dawn summit]

lol same, solution is just to do enough sales you can afford 100k of consumables a week

[runic hull]

ado I backstab at 10sec or do I wait to build reserve points?

[honest basin]

You backstab and just stay at full combo points to keep a hold of shadow techniques

[runic hull]

ok

thx

[honest basin]

Yuh

[shadow lance]

Can't say without logs

[shadow lance]

It's not a exafct rules but yes

[runic hull]

dance only is at max stacks ofc, same for symbols? (eventhough its hard to have 3 stacks up)?

[queen plinth]

it felt like i was on fire and then im dealing 6.26? aint noooo way

and we timed the 16 so

[honest basin]

Probs a little low, mainly just comparing your DPS to the other 2 you should be ahead of the warrior at least so maybe did smth wrong/had bad timings

[hazy breach]

max stacks of what

[runic hull]

of dance bro, charges7stacks I dont know what you call them 🙂

[shadow lance]

You missing something Mango

[hazy breach]

You should symbols and/or dance when sectech has less than 10 seconds left of its cooldown

[shadow lance]

Yu don't have to be at 2 charges when sb is up

[hazy breach]

As long as you can fit 2x of each into blades

So If its like 30s to blades and flag then dont

[shadow lance]

Bro, ot depends pulls and comp

If MM and Fury obliterate AoE too, you won't pump that hard

If timing sucks, you won't either

But 6.3 looks okayish

[queen plinth]

i mean i wasnt padding as much

i was focusing toi evis spirits and casters before third boss etc

was prio dmging af

[shadow lance]

That's why it's hard to say

[honest basin]

That would be why

[shadow lance]

without logs

But if you did prio as much as possible

Sounds correct ,y

[honest basin]

Dw about prio damage as sub, just press black powder when you're supposed to

[shadow lance]

Wtf

[honest basin]

?

[shadow lance]

Goal is timing the key, not padding meter

If you need to do prio to do the key faster, do it

[honest basin]

Evis over BP is such a tiny amount of prio it genuinely doesn't matter

You just send BP when you're at 4+ targets and you'll do fine

If you want actual prio play sin

[queen plinth]

hmmmmm

[shadow lance]

Funnel =/= prio but ok

[queen plinth]

we were chaining af aswell

[shadow lance]

Play sin on gambit is kinda troll

[queen plinth]

wasnt stealthing for longer dances aswell since my cds lined up pretty good the whole time

[honest basin]

???? Funnel and prio are the same thing? The fuck?

[shadow lance]

No xD

You can prio without funneling

Funneling is doing prio

[honest basin]

Yeah and if you don't have funnel when doing prio damage it's bad and not worth it bc you're wasting damage

If you are not a class that gets funnel, you are not a prio class.

[shadow lance]

Who cares about doing damages to not important mobs that you can bring on next pack?

[shrewd lantern]

sub funnel

nice meme

[honest basin]

Arcane mage, assassination rogue, etc, those classes funnel and are therefore good prio damage

[iron plover]

Is BPing that much more damage than evisc?

[shadow lance]

Did I speak about good or bad prio?

I said doing prio

[honest basin]

If you're not doing good prio damage then you shouldn't be trying bc again you are wasting damage

[shadow lance]

Sure Mr big details

[shrewd lantern]

no

[honest basin]

Giving up 5% AOE for 5% st is just never worth it lol

[shadow lance]

It is when you need to kill a fcking mob first

[honest basin]

Let the classes who do it well do it

[shadow lance]

Sure, when your compt doesn't

[honest basin]

Then bring a class that does that?

Otherwise, don't?

[queen plinth]

i mean im kionda on sweethens side here

u dont need a funnel prio class to prio

thats exactly what i did. i danced spirits so the group dont wipe

[shadow lance]

Yes, you chose every group comp

[queen plinth]

and we timed the 16 so it was a good decision

[shadow lance]

You play to time the key, not doing big damages

Maybe you like having big details in your weeklies

Enjoy it

[honest basin]

If you're playing to time the key, you had 3 classes that are heavy cleave correct? BM, fury, and sub all cleave off a specific target. Meaning that so long as you are all cleaving off the correct target, the prio target will always die in a timely manner.

Which means that if you're casting eviscerate to kill 1 guy ~2 seconds faster, you're inting your damage and risking timing the key by not doing the maximum amount of damage you can do.

[shadow lance]

Follow you what you say, people should use BP on Araz adds?

[queen plinth]

yea and i dacned the spirit so its done quick so the other 2 can focus on the fuck oversser

[honest basin]

That's all I'm saying.

[shadow lance]

To do the "maximum damages"

[honest basin]

If you want to, yeah. You can 100% do that.

[empty plume]

funnel and prio are not the same thing

[exotic zephyr]

would a crafted belt be better the delve belt?

[frail kindle]

bro theres basically zero difference between evisc and black powder lol

[honest basin]

As long as you have 4 targets to hit you can just... Press BP and do more damage lol

[frail kindle]

like yall overthink it so much, sure its very slightly more prio to do evisc but like who cares lol its neglible

[karmic harbor]

i aint pressing bp on that sentinel in ecodome

fuck that add

[empty plume]

this whole argument I just read was pedantic in its essence

but if we're defining terms, prio =/= funnel

they are two separate wow terms

sometimes they overlap

[shrewd lantern]

this argument would have more ground

[shadow lance]

5 top logs did 5 BP in whoel fights

[shrewd lantern]

if pressing evis did noticeably more st

[shadow lance]

outside of dance

[shrewd lantern]

than bp

it doesnt

[frail kindle]

thats what im saying

the buttons are basically the exact same

[shrewd lantern]

like if we still had shuriken combo

you’d ge trolling hitting bp

but we dont

[shadow lance]

But I won't waste time with someone that doesn'tget the diff between funnel and prio

[shrewd lantern]

whole point of funnel assumes more targets gives more st

which rn for sub is not really the case

[empty plume]

correct, sub cannot funnel

but it can choose to prio

very light dps difference ofc

but the two are different concepts

[honest basin]

All I said was that good prio comes from funnel, which sub doesn't have. So in a key, you should press black powder when you meet the conditions to do so bc your "prio" is incredibly negligible compared to the AOE you'd realistically lose at a higher target count

[empty plume]

sure, that's a fair and reasonable statement

[shrewd lantern]

sub funnel went away after zul

yet people still think it exists

7 years later

kind of wild

[empty plume]

but do you see how that sentence differs from this one?

the thing that started the argument

[chrome palm]

the difference is that sub kills funnel from other classes faster with bp

[empty plume]

sub can eat the group dps for personal gain

not always better for timing a key

[chrome palm]

so if you pull a single pack onto boss you are not only doing less st but also hurting the st of the other funnel classes

[honest basin]

Sure, I was at work, but my entire argument was not under that premise if you see what I read. The whole premise was that you should just be pressing BP when it's correct to do so lol

[frail kindle]

as it should be

if i cant funnel neither can you

[cunning notch]

a

[honest basin]

Based

[empty plume]

it is correct to BP when it leads to higher total group dps

[hazy breach]

If I BP to kill the other targets my prism proc will hit for more on my main target

[empty plume]

or group safety

[hazy breach]

(this is insanely irrelevant as the damage is so low)

[chrome palm]

i love when my cloak/prism snipes the already dead add on dimensius

[hazy breach]

Prism just splits

[chrome palm]

must be cloak then

[hazy breach]

Ye

[chrome palm]

i just saw a void beam annihilate the respawning add xd

[hazy breach]

The bugfix that made it actually split

Was actually a noticeable nerf in keys

[shrewd lantern]

all im saying is

no one qa tested mythic dimmy

on a melee

[hazy breach]

It went from like 3.5-4% to like 1-1.5%

[shrewd lantern]

and it shows

[empty plume]

dimensius got hands

(inside ur camera box)

and a teeny tiny melee range

[cunning notch]

how much rio do u need for title ?

[honest basin]

Bro all the melee been trying to explain that to our ranged

They're like "wtf do you mean you're out of range" my brother in Christ his hitbox is TINY

[shrewd lantern]

somehow a giant voidlord

smaller hitbox than a mechsuit goblin

[honest basin]

IM SAYING BRO

[cunning notch]

were hitting Gally's aura

he was aura farming for so long

[upper narwhal]

nah it was his extra chins

chinbox was too big

[honest basin]

Gally built like me fr (fat as fuck)

[shrewd lantern]

im probably going to use his mount

until armored sparkle dragon

tbf

[upper narwhal]

gally mount is my favuorite mount in the game

[honest basin]

I like the ASMR thing you got as a special drop

[turbid edge]

3800+

[honest basin]

I feel like I'm playing dj sona

[cunning notch]

gazh damn

[honest basin]

Minigame enjoyers

[turbid edge]

Could be higher too... Changes every season. They're gonna have another turboboost this season too

[cunning notch]

i dont think i care enough to grind that much

[quaint lodge]

this season i bet it'll be above 4k

[runic hull]

if I have peacemaker and nether prism, should I use prism always or just use it above 15 stacks as if I had 2 on use trinkets?

[turbid edge]

Macro with blades

[runic hull]

ok so use every burst, noted

[frigid ingot]

!log

[lunar bluff]

is sub boss dmg even that good in keys

seems super super timer dependent

[silk glacier]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[jade oasis]

yeah... im ready

[signal moth]

with so tricky, the duration is 1 hour... is this constant as in.. 'I will redirect onto tank forever for 1 hour, regardless of boss/m+/anything' or is it 'this lasts 1 hour but is consumed as soon as you attack something' ?

[signal moth]

yeah i mean.. if you go into a boss with flag etc up then noone will outdps you on that boss from what I've seen.. and even if you dont get flag instantly i find im still even/above the others.. sub is just good, the bit that fucks me/us is pug tanks lol

[jade oasis]

whats the rupture macro

uhhh

[lunar bluff]

/cast rupture

[jade oasis]

i hate u

[chrome fern]

What do you mean rupture macro

[jade oasis]

mouseover

[fossil frost]

So we only shuriken storm during Shadowblades between the tier set coup de grace, right? Also, why exactly do we need to do that? I don’t quite understand the interaction/bug issue with unseen blades

[chrome fern]

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead]rupture

[signal moth]

!backstab

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[signal moth]

!dance

ok imma just ask

if the backstab in our opener only in our opener? or are we todo that on all dance/symbols? or only the one after flag/blades?

[chrome fern]

You can’t gain unseen blade stacks while coup is procced. Since during shadow blades you have guaranteed max cp, a shuriken storm will give you both max cp, a danse macabre stack and it won’t put unseen blade on cooldown

[fossil frost]

Got it ty

And when we get a coup stack like 20 sec before major cds we just hold it to send just after the first sec tec of major cds?

[chrome fern]

I’m not 100% on that, but I think fuu did mention that last night

At the very least don’t use finishers at least 10s before

[fossil frost]

That’s for building up shadow techniques cps?

[chrome fern]

Yeah

The coup saving though is for mega bonus cdr from symbols + coups extra cp, will bring back sectec faster

[karmic harbor]

all dances

[signal moth]

i thought this but the dudes log im looking at that is a 99parse hasnt done it outside of his opener

[polar vessel]

hi I'm looking at some logs and was wondering why this guy is pressing eviscerate on the bloodguards

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VcN7ng3fj1KGDZFH?fight=9&type=casts&translate=true&source=330&start=21889419&end=21940298&view=timeline

while this guy is pressing bp on the bloodguards

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mM3bLn4cgKxkjw2P?fight=133&type=casts&translate=true&source=603&start=101352115&end=101491839&view=timeline

this is the same huge pull after first boss so shouldn't you just press bp?

[willow cliff]

how can i sim a fist weapon for sub on top gear

it doesnt work for me

since its a fist

but i want it as an offhand

[short radish]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[willow cliff]

but why does it sim higher then

[short radish]

It shouldn't

A 650 dagger in oh is better than a 723 fist

[teal coral]

I got money on intellect dagger

[short radish]

I bet that's still better than using a fist

[crude zodiac]

Is my mastery too high? Should i have more crit? And if If i lower my Mastery for my Crit, what difference will i see?

[signal moth]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[willow pawn]

im surprised the BoE belt is not one of the BiS for us

mast/vers?

think its a good investment?

to replace delve belt

[alpine wraith]

just do top gears when you want to check which gear is best

there is no too much crit or mastery or anything

[hollow mountain]

Thinking about going back to assa for mythic forge is there any sub Pov gameplays of the fight im struggling get good numbers, haven't made it to p3 yet though

[west tide]

delay ur on pull flag

and then u are chillin bro

[hollow mountain]

I've been delaying flag and blades till 20 seconds

[west tide]

u guys doing pushback strat or walk in strat

as in when u drop the adds do u drop it in front of the zone or behind the zone

[hollow mountain]

Feel like my numbers are low my group might be frying the early adds before I can pad though, dropping adds infront and hitting them with a knock back I think

[west tide]

yeah ok might be the case they might be crankin em

but usually u can crank em first

[hollow mountain]

Highest i hit on the fight was 5mil dps there only 2-3 min pulls atm and I am using nether prism but I feel like I do more then that just on a small pack in m+

Unless most of our dam just comes out p3

[runic hull]

Is dark iron dwarf any good for rogue?

[willow cliff]

is hero prism and mythic pacemaker better than hero prism and hero signet? im already capping on the mastery so i dont know if signet would be a good replacement for araz trinket

and i cant sim the prism since it doesnt stack in the sim

[tepid trellis]

what

prism works in sims like it does ingame

[willow cliff]

the prism inst able to stack in the sim

[alpine wraith]

what

[willow cliff]

the sims are fucked when u try to sim araz and prism

together

[alpine wraith]

they have been fine for a while

[tepid trellis]

it shouldnt be

[willow cliff]

doesnt prism get its value on the 4th cd pop

since it has 3mins to charge

instead of 1.5min

on the 2nd pull

[tepid trellis]

with 2x on-use its used at 1min30 and then again at 4:30

[graceful osprey]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[willow cliff]

what are the simming options for this?

patchwork 10 minutes?

[tepid trellis]

it should do it by itself

just regular 5min patchwerk

[willow cliff]

okay

and we sim on latest right?

not weekly

[tepid trellis]

yes

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4tvxwPC8pMU2EbpMexWatf

works just fine

[earnest canyon]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[willow cliff]

@tepid trellis

[slow atlas]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/omw-to-spread-misinformation-all-over-the-internet-gif-26525511

[sturdy moat]

How would yall go about gearing a new character? are devles a viable way to get hero track pieces before spamming m+

[tepid trellis]

delves to get full 675 or w/e the ilvl is off those

and then just play the game, do some lfr when you can to get tierset

then threaten your friends

so they boost you in +10s

geared my DH from scratch to 711 ilvl in two weeks

[willow cliff]

u think pacemaker is much worse than araz trinket in combination with prism?

in m+

[tepid trellis]

some people hate the 2x on-use but im a big fan of it

[willow cliff]

i imagine it really cool aswell

[tepid trellis]

i think its better personally

[willow cliff]

i mean u get to fully stack prism

every time

and have araz for inbetween

[tepid trellis]

well you can do that with 1x on-use as well you just have to really know the route to line up non trinket blades with less important packs

etc

[willow cliff]

i was thinking of using signet as the 2nd on use until i get araz but 2nd stats are so shit

[willow cliff]

so we dont send on cd?

with only prism as on use

[tepid trellis]

its a choice

you can either send it every 90sec

or hold for 180sec for massive pulls

so its know your route type of deal

[willow cliff]

makes sense

[tepid trellis]

where as i think 2x on use

is a lil bit more braindead in that regard

[willow cliff]

ye

[tepid trellis]

you will always have a quite strong go

[willow cliff]

i feel like pacemaker is like MUCH MUCH worse than araz as a 2nd trinket

but i cant know it since i dont have it

[steel jolt]

you can know because you can sim it, even items you don't have, using the search box on top gear

[grizzled thorn]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hoary lotus]

just loot it

[strong ingot]

Fair

[hallow night]

Are whetstones better than oils?

[random comet]

Mana oil has haste so almost certainly

[signal moth]

does the meta in m+ just stay the same constantly? its always the same classes lol

[jade oasis]

so im confused , I am supposed to only dance and symbols outside of cds for secret tech?

no exceptions?

[lilac stag]

Yes they are

Wax even better

[jade oasis]

i understand my dmg is low outside of cds but it’s too low

it feels like

[lilac stag]

Use consumable sim in #tc-research

[solemn sonnet]

You only get 1-2 uses outside cds there's just no reason to use without secret techniques

[jade oasis]

so im correct yeah

im just clearing up my confusion

:p

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[jade oasis]

thank you

specs been fun so far even though my gear is sub par

40 mill on floodgate first pull was a first for me

[short radish]

based sub enjoyer

[brisk onyx]

[gentle venture]

stupid question I'm sure, but in that mistakes picture, how come flag is the first ability? does sub open with flag from stealth? (I have not played sub)

[obtuse dirge]

shadowstrike flag then rupture

[gentle venture]

ok, thank you. and it's meant to end on a shadowstrike not a finisher?

or is that because dance is the next global and it just rolls into that one?

[obtuse dirge]

rupture is the finisher, after that go into cooldowns

you just want combo points before pressing flag

so you can finisher right away

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#opener-st-opener

that has the sequence for opener

[gentle venture]

ah ok, so it does end on a shadowstrike. after the 10th ability where you end on a shadowstrike, assuming you don't have another dance to roll into, do you just move into backstab/rupture maintance until the next dance window?

[carmine yew]

Anyone know of a good video guide for Sub? I havent played Sub in a Mythic Raid setting for a few expacs. better for me to be tough visually.

[lilac stag]

You could almost say the flood gates open in here when sub does damage.

[gentle venture]

Same Infinite! Sub seems completely different from the last time I played it, trying to wrap my head around it

[obtuse dirge]

yeah pretty much

[gentle venture]

Thanks Scur

[obtuse dirge]

just hit a dummy for a bit following the sequence to learn it. aoe is mostly the same but you black powder on more targets

[lilac stag]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lilac stag]

The tldr for sub

[gentle venture]

yeah, was looking at the ScAth, that's where my question about why it ended on a shadowstrike came from at the 8th global

but Scur cleared it up

[lilac stag]

I see

8 globals can be tricky with cp refunds & coup delay

There’s not really sub videos. None that I would trust anyways.

You really just need to sit down with the guide and smack a training dummy

Figure out the cd window and go from there

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[rocky ocean]

[civic lava]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[severe sluice]

does anyone quickly know if in HoA the wound poison of rogues stack with the Mortal Dance(healreduce) of DH?

[frozen pawn]

Can anybody explain why is it ok to macro thistle and dance?

[short radish]

because the clankers said its fine

and its the best time to press it

!tea

[wicked jolt]

Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```

[short radish]

when else would you press it if not dance

[frozen pawn]

I was thinking manually in dance, is there a chance you miss the energy gain with the macro?
And i literally started playing rogue yesterday after 10year hiatus so im very lost on the class

[misty olive]

did subs get a damage buff?

[chrome palm]

so far no

[plush glen]

Is shadowheart supposed to not work in dance?

[chrome palm]

not sure what is intended but it doesnt

[steel jolt]

Shadowheart? Are we playing BG3?

https://tenor.com/view/shadowheart-baldurs-gate3-bg3-gif-19588257

[tight sequoia]

thoughts

is my sub rogue up to par

am i good

[wintry heart]

I can’t do anything except admire the shamans name

[tight sequoia]

das his ingame too not even details changer

maybe it is not sfw name tbh

dunno how he got past wow

heh

[stiff stirrup]

Only one healing reduction works whichever is highest

[wicked urchin]

life with real trinkets now is good

got heroic forge last night

[jade oasis]

how good is multi dotting on this spec

does it even matter

[dense mountain]

its good when pull is gathering

once stacked send cds

[shrewd lantern]

Over the course of a ruptures duration its more damage than naked evis

hence why spending pts rupturing on the gather is good

[pure pollen]

fuu idk if you're around but I was sitting here reading and found this. we shuriken storm on 2+ targets in m+ as main builder? seems counter intuitive due to 4 set. can someone fill me in on this

ngl i usually only find myself storming at like 4+ targets when im blasting BPs but I'm also new to sub

[shy topaz]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/At4w1gdrZmWVKpyP?fight=27&type=damage-done&source=7 Can someone give me a log review? I've done so much research but I literally can't find an answer as to why my damage is low.

[dense mountain]

do !log and sometimes ppl will help,

[shy topaz]

!log

[dense mountain]

but right off the bat you should move your codl blood to the 2nd sectec in opener

and you have some weird dance stuff ourside opener

you just need to tighten up your cd stuff since thats our entire dmg

[shy topaz]

What is this weird dance stuff?

[dense mountain]

for example you press dance and symbols, then wait a whole gcd to backstab

i didnt go through that detailed but im sure there is more small stuff like this that is adding up

it also looks like you macro dance and symbols

you should not do that

[wicked urchin]

it’s possible to do but it’s a more complicated macro but you should absolutely not do it like this

[wicked urchin]

one important thing to understand with sub is that the vast majority of your damage happens within your burst window and you have to make sure you’re doing that properly

missing a few globals during that time is a huge loss

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[wicked urchin]

Before worrying about anything else make sure you can do this perfectly every time

The next thing that comes is managing your in between dances to make sure that you’re able to fit two full dances into your cooldowns

[lavish acorn]

why do we symbols evis and not st in second shadow dance in the sequence?

[wicked urchin]

you symbols the evis before to give the cdr for your sectech

[lavish acorn]

[wicked urchin]

pretty sure it’s 10s before sectech and 13s if you have coup

[acoustic matrix]

Man HC dimensius sucks so hard as sub

You either throw CDs at 1:30 and pray that you don't get mechanic on you or wait for 1:50 and then you cannot cd again until 5min

Not even sure which one is worse

[sullen oriole]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vale pine]

backstab is fairly weak so 2-3 targets is when you start using storm instead of backstab

[scarlet oyster]

How good find weakness is ? How much damage increase it provides when it's active?

[outer goblet]

for black powder alone it buffs the physical damage (by ignoring armor) and then adds another 30% as shadow, seems pretty big

[pure pollen]

makes sense appreciate you. idk why in my head I figured it'd be more damage to fish for coups

[vale pine]

most of our damage is during cooldowns

where you will mostly use shadowstrike

[short radish]

its probably worth doing a backstab when you know you have an unseen blade up

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[short radish]

there's a WA for it somewhere

[pure pollen]

appreciate you guys

[pure pollen]

pretty much always other than between 4pc coups yeah?

[vale pine]

well backstab and storm between coup

[runic quest]

I have high input lag, sometimes lead me to do double shadowstrike how you deal with it?

[upbeat escarp]

Stop mashing

[hollow spear]

Can't do much about that. Either you gamble and hit the finisher and risk a 5 cp finisher or you try to react with your high input lag.

With how tight things are during our burst window, you kinda have to mash or you will lose a global.

[scarlet oyster]

It ignores a part of the armor, but how does it translate into damages, 10% armor bypass=10% more damages ?

[karmic harbor]

might be worth messing around with your spell queue window

[vale pine]

lower your spell queue window to 250 or 200

[scarlet oyster]

as spell queue window I use 100+ my ping if that can help

[wispy crystal]

Hey guys our Bis Trinket is netherprism and 1 passive trinket like pacemaker ?

[scarlet oyster]

prism + araz 😭

[wispy crystal]

And we should always aim to have 1x on use trinket instead of 2x passive right ?

[wispy crystal]

2x on use trinket is the Bis over 1x on use + 1x passive ?

[fringe palm]

its prism + x. either forge or a passive trinket

[wispy crystal]

Prism + passive

OR

Forge + passive

Is this what you mean ?

[scarlet oyster]

check

[fringe palm]

no

prism + forge or prism + passive

[jade oasis]

prism forge is the only case where you want to go double on use

you use prism on one blades, then you use forge on one blades

[fringe palm]

its relevant for last 2 mythic bosses. if someone asks what bis trinkets are at this point it doesnt matter

[jade oasis]

you cycle between

[wispy crystal]

I'm just a heroic Andy. No way I'm getting mythic level trinkets

[jade oasis]

i think

prism on heroic

is better than any m+ trinket

[wispy crystal]

So to be practical just aim for 1x nether prism and 1x forge ?

[jade oasis]

even on champ it’s really good

[jade oasis]

ye

[wispy crystal]

How big of a DPS increase is having prism over say lily for example?

[jade oasis]

i don’t have a number you’d have to sim

go to droptimizer in raidbots and sim

[wispy crystal]

Right. First I have to get a netherprism before we talk haha

Araz trinket dropped today in heroic. But some healer won the roll

[jade oasis]

no you can sim it if you use droptimizer without having it

[vagrant fulcrum]

I’ve got it, if they decide to let us use bp to spend dn they gota call the extra hero talent blackest powder

[keen dome]

call it pocket sand, imo

[versed sun]

which ability do we supercharge during Dance?

[vale pine]

secret techniques

[scarlet gull]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[scarlet gull]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[scarlet gull]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[scarlet gull]

!atro

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[versed sun]

anyway to see how many flawless form stacks you have on logs?

[shadow lance]

I fell unconfortable seeing discord in web app

[cursive vapor]

baseline @ work

[vale pine]

don't worry, the desktop client is essentially a desktop web app including chrome and nodejs

[versed sun]

Ah okay that way just doesnt work when you use the compare function.

But thank you

[vale pine]

which means that e.g. when chrome has a rce (vulnerability you can run code on your meshine remotely) like it did this and last week, you hope it updates the client fast, e.g. this is the current chromium kernel version used by electron if you use the latest release from 3 days ago

which is still a older build than e.g. the last chrome version

or the slightly newer version my browser uses

point is, its unclear how fastt he update cycle is and it means discord is typically more vulnerable than the browser while using similar or higher amounts of memory/ram.

tho enough nerd talk, back to subtlety 🙂

[shadow lance]

Damn

I love the nerd talk

[jade oasis]

i also run discord on my browser

@vale pine dont let them make you feel alone

[shadow lance]

Nerdtalk me about Sub

To make me sleep well

[runic trail]

They also used an old electron wrapper for linux which fucked up the ability to stream audio for a while

[frigid ingot]

for log review i type !log put log there and jus twait?

[north schooner]

yes

[rancid zephyr]

when should i use bp in aoe? 4+ target or 7+ targets? i am confused cuz guides are diiferent

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[rancid zephyr]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[oblique burrow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[oblique burrow]

can't we macro shadow dance and symbols together ?

[eternal abyss]

Slowly going back into Sub.
So based on Rotation I am not allowed to macro SecTec+CB anymore?

[fierce cedar]

you can but its not optimal by any means

[eternal abyss]

What is the exact reason for CB on 2nd SecTec?

[hazy breach]

Well you want a bind with only sectech too

[hazy breach]

More flawless form stacks, more damage

[marble sail]

bigger dmg

[fierce cedar]

more damage = more better

[eternal abyss]

I'm having such a hard time fitting all buttons for Sub.
Now I gotta add even more. Damn

[oblique burrow]

how is this not optimal?

[marble sail]

dont play other classes 😭

[fierce cedar]

it depends on how you use it

if its the only st button on your actionbar its a dpsloss

[marble sail]

this is the powerful button the guide writers are hiding from u

[eternal abyss]

Considering we use Dance+Symbols almost always together, is it okay to macro those two but having Symbols on another bind when there's downtime?

[marble sail]

ur still using 2 buttons? just have them seperate

[velvet spoke]

"big f*king button" x)

[oblique burrow]

i've never used symbols alone

when should i have ?

[eternal abyss]

Correct, but during burst you wanna be fast, it's easier clicking one button than two

[marble sail]

not if u click the 2 buttons at the same time

🧠

[eternal abyss]

I'm a fat bastard with fat fingers 😂 That would be chaos lol

[marble sail]

based

[hollow spear]

when you have to dance after your first dance during blades ends, but your sectec isn't coming up fast enough

if you press symbols + dance together then, your 2nd sectec will not be supercharged

which is quite a huge damage loss

[limpid sage]

Anyone got a weakaura that checks your gcd against the delayed hits of sectec when remaining dance duration is less than your gcd?

For optimizing dance uptime if sending sectec at the end of your first dance

[zinc wedge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[limpid sage]

One of the class packs has that or was it just for own use?

[honest meteor]

ive been trying to modify fuu shuriken storm weakaura, that shows target count, so that when the target count exceeds 7, an icon of shuriken storm will pop up, helping me to realize i should be using black powder instead of just ST rotation, but not working, anyone succeeded?

[limpid sage]

You should use black powder on 4+ targets

Unless you really need prio dmg

[honest meteor]

i thought it was 7? Nani

[clever delta]

that was two BP buffs ago

[limpid sage]

Ya think it was very early last season, but got changed pretty fast

[short radish]

clearly they havent subscribed to the Black Powder weekly newsletter

[strong ore]

whats the rule for sec tech out of dance? there are occasional moments in my rotation where sectec comes up but I dont have a dance and/or symbols

[short radish]

just dont press it

[strong ore]

ok cool thats what I have been doing

[short radish]

👍

any gains you might get

will j ust be lost if you fuck up

which you probably will

[stone slate]

since im tryin to get used to sub a bit - which macros are kinda the way to go for a "newby"

[limpid sage]

Ig there’s no reason to not have sectec bound to dance

[short radish]

bro what

no

[limpid sage]

The times you’d send it naked you don’t have dances up anyway

[short radish]

do not bind sectech to dance

[limpid sage]

No reverse

Dance bound to sectec sorry

[short radish]

bro what

no

do not bind dance to sectech

[limpid sage]

xd

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short radish]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[warm marlin]

These sorts of things are difficult to make

Quite certain you need to write a custom lua function

[limpid sage]

Ye definitely

[short radish]

your CB bind should also be cb+sectech AND have a separate sectech bind

[warm marlin]

I put a 1.3s bar with a 1s tick mark above my dance bar

And visually compare them

[haughty rose]

would you do this upgrade of so'leah trinket for 75 gilded crests? one is dungeon slice one is 1 target 5 minutes. i compared 723 myth so'leah with 704 champ astral antenna

[limpid sage]

That’s pretty smart actually

[warm marlin]

I’m not entirely convinced it’s better than just instachaining dance though

[limpid sage]

I’m currently tracking flawless form in terms of a bar, but maybe I should change it for dance

[stone slate]

Shuri Tornado + Symbol
Dance + Symbol + Tea
SecTec + Shadowblades

is what im currently felt like im gonna macro is that fine tho?

[warm marlin]

I need to log/vod review to see if I’m hitting it properly

[short radish]

dont play shuri tornado

its not worth it

and no

maybe the sectech shadowblades one is fine

but dont macro dance and symbols

unless you also have separate dance and symbols bind

[stone slate]

i see thanks

i have em spereated binded ofc - as outlaw OTP i just try to get used to a new rotation which allows my brain to find the buttons haha

dance + tea is fin to macro?

[short radish]

dance + tea is fine to macro

but yeah just dont bother with shuri tornado

it's really not worth the hassle

[stone slate]

already changed ye thanks

[short radish]

👍

its so little gain for so much mental effort

[limpid sage]

what’s wrong with this btw

[short radish]

why would you?

answer me that first

[strong ore]

you dont want to sectech immediately in dance

[limpid sage]

For no delay

[short radish]

damn you got answered already

there are maybe occasions where you dance -> sectech

[eternal abyss]

We need backstab before SecTec if I'm not wrong

[short radish]

but usually its dance -> backstab

[limpid sage]

Wat

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[eternal abyss]

For the Danse Macabre stack

[short radish]

its kinda fine to sdance -> sectech if you are already at full cp

but usually you dont

[limpid sage]

Ye but that’s why you bind dance to sectec, not sectec to dance

[short radish]

i mean