we have very few macros
#subtlety
lilac stag
upper girder
is there anyone who knows a lot about how warcraftlogs works?
lilac stag
So start by reading one of those guides
so you have a basic understanding
And come ask questions afterwards
hazy breach
Clearly we need to buff sub, look at us near the bottom
earnest harness
is there anyone who knows a lot about how warcraftlogs works?
Using is simple but the actual analytics can go very deep. To start just copy and paste a log at warcraftlogs that’s it.
lilac stag
legit biggest help you can do for yourself.
earnest harness
So start by reading one of those guides
I’ll be doing that right away sir.
fallow nimbus
Rogue is the class where you don't want to macro things, even a spell with 3 charges and 25sec cd that just gives a bit of energy and +%dmg
lilac stag
I’ll be doing that right away sir.
In all honesty this spec plays like nothing else in wow, so take a look at all three. See which method of guide writing resonates with you best.
upper girder
Using is simple but the actual analytics can go very deep. To start just copy an...
could I dm you and ask you some questions about it?
lilac stag
They all have same info presented slightly differently
earnest harness
could I dm you and ask you some questions about it?
Sure, I’m about to log now but can pick up any Q’s early tomorrow.
fallow nimbus
I am scared of what midnight will do to us or perhaps won't do anything at all 
lilac stag
there’s like 12 OTP in here that are mostly useful (or sarcastic) but helpful. 
earnest harness
For the record, I trashed all the macros with SoD in it. Threw them on the floor and never looking back. Next thing 👉 to read them guides!
upper girder
need answers now haha
upper girder
anyone I could dm and ask questions regarding warcraftlogs and my logs?
upper girder
a bit of both
lilac stag
Use log
upper girder
!log
warm marlin
so moonkin buff was that good?
It’s a bit cherry picked data
Boss damage on nexus is gonna favor specs that are just zugging boss
upbeat sorrel
i see
warm marlin
And not helping much on platform
upbeat sorrel
sounds like all 3 rogue specs needs buffs
warm marlin
Clearly we need to buff sub, look at us near the bottom
Real and very true
upbeat sorrel
im glad we are all able to come to a reasonable and logical conclusion
hidden shadow
anyone else having trouble making a macro with coldblood and secret technique?
cold blood wont cast
hidden shadow
it is there
lilac stag
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
hidden shadow
thx guys
upper girder
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
upper girder
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
foggy egret
!wa
wicked joltBOT
cobalt palm
Is there an easy way to track when to storm instead of SS or is it just always in the opener after first coup?
upper girder
Anyone who can explain the coup thing for me?
Im a lil stupid so dont fully understand what Im reading
its like I get dyslexia
it says stop using finishers
hoary lotus
Don't use shadow strike or backstab between coup and free coup
Just press shuriken storm between
You don't want to waste unseen blades procs
sullen hare
it says stop using finishers
When there's like 20 seconds left on your flag and shadow blades you just spam backstab until you go into your dance. It feels like shit and you don't use any finishers so it feels super wasteful but it's doing a couple things
- Farming shadowcraft stacks
- Getting coup ready to fire for dance
upper girder
When there's like 20 seconds left on your flag and shadow blades you just spam b...
ah so thats what Im doing wrong
so I go into dance before using flag and shadowblades?
sullen hare
The bot says 10 seconds but between you, me, and the bushes, it's fine to pad that out just a touch longer. You want to be able to guarantee your two dances
sullen hare
so I go into dance before using flag and shadowblades?
What? No, you still do things the way you normally would with flag -> rupture
upper girder
see me as the most dumb kid in the class, I have no idea wtf Im doing
XD
Im not sure I have my rotation down at all
high eagle
solemn sonnet
Every burst follows the opener
cobalt palm
The bot says 10 seconds but between you, me, and the bushes, it's fine to pad th...
Do you just send dance at ~10 seconds or symbols with it?
signal moth
how do i sim prism so it has a certain amount of stacks immediately?
rocky turret
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tepid trellis
you would need a custom override
would probably have to go to the simc discord for help with that
sullen hare
Do you just send dance at ~10 seconds or symbols with it?
we're talking theoretically about 1:15-1:20 into a pull, right before your 90 second cooldowns are coming up. you dance like you normally would at 1:30, starting with your flag. At 80 seconds (1:20) it's better to just chug backstabs and juice up your next series of cooldown-empowered dances
cold helm
how often do you press black powder as sub
hoary lotus
In keys or raid
cold helm
keys
hoary lotus
A lot
slate lantern
how often do you press black powder as sub
Anytime over 4 targets if you don't care about prio
sullen hare
whenever it's 4+ targets unless coup is ready to send
cold helm
31 cast last key enough?
hoary lotus
No
cold helm
😉
hoary lotus
Ahahaha
signal moth
31 cast last key enough?
in 1 pull?
cold helm
whole key my liver
cold helm
obv i came here to ask lmaoo
tepid trellis
thats in a +10 ara kara, where you have the AoE reduction mobs
cold helm
i've seen a guide saying to press it and another saying to never press it
hoary lotus
They buffed blsckpowder so it's big compared to last season
sullen hare
we're talking theoretically about 1:15-1:20 into a pull, right before your 90 se...
and to elaborate on that, it's [n-10 seconds] where n is your cooldown windows. so 80 seconds, 170 seconds, 230 seconds, etc.
they are wrong then aaron
!guide
tepid trellis
that do be cooked
hoary lotus
Wasn't it like 12 mobs or something before you pressed it
cold helm
Yeah it was a fat pull i used it on
and that was it
so only time im using actual single target abilites is just prio?
other than that im just spamming bp
timid rivet
Stealthi you think antenna is better in m+ ?
upper girder
is there any kind soul who could like jump on a call and guide me step by step about rotation and say whats wrong with mine etc? Ill go through what I do and can show on dummy or something
I really need some guidance on this, reading isnt exactly working well for me
timid rivet
than double on-use with forge+prism?
Ye antenna+prism vs forge+prism
timid rivet
For you forge prism is better
keen monolith
because of this backstab that needs to be casted during dance, I need to have backstaba and shadowstrike both on my stealth bars yeah? And I can't just rely on my backstab turning into shadowstrike and pushing one button
signal moth
do we give a single fuck about slice n dice btw?
like first pull of dungeon
aoe, bp spam with cds
we dont get it up ?
slate lantern
because of this backstab that needs to be casted during dance, I need to have ba...
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
signal moth
unless coup proc
lilac stag
apl looks to storm and one evic before sending cds if i recall
winter ice
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
signal moth
has anyone got the simulationcraft discord?
sand flax
can someone explain me how Shadow Blades deals so much dmg over SecTec and Evis ?
vagrant fulcrum
can someone explain me how Shadow Blades deals so much dmg over SecTec and Evis ...
it applies to other stuff too
unkempt drum
Every time I look through a higher log compared to mine in M+, they cast WAY less black powders, and I'm not sure why. Obviously it seems like I'm overusing it but I'm trying to use SecTec and all my coup procs, idk why the difference is so drastic. Like 80ish for them, over 150 for me. They've also got significantly higher nimble flurry damage
sand flax
it applies to other stuff too
what do you mean
unkempt drum
what do you mean
Because Shadow Blades adds shadow damage to other skills your Details might be categorizing that additional damage under SB
sand flax
this was a 20 sec fight against a rare, ending 40 mil dps, I thought it was a bug
slow gorge
thats in a +10 ara kara, where you have the AoE reduction mobs
you never evicirate on big groups?
lilac stag
!aoe
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
tepid trellis
you never evicirate on big groups?
eh normally no, in ara kara i do cuz they have packs where big fuckers reduce dmg to other mobs
slow gorge
oki
minor bobcat
how are we supposed to pop tea in subs rotation right now? are we popping with every dance letting it auto use when we need the energy or whats the deal with that?
short radish
!tea
wicked joltBOT
Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
graceful rock
how are people casting SB faster than 90s apart? on nexus king
brave harbor
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
graceful rock
oh autum
burnt panther
eh normally no, in ara kara i do cuz they have packs where big fuckers reduce dm...
Hi, Sthalthi one question, if I have the Prisma + Araz trinket, do I always throw them with SB? First Araz + SB, then Prisma + SB, then Araz + SB?
random comet
this was a 20 sec fight against a rare, ending 40 mil dps, I thought it was a bu...
this is a thing with the karesh rares
seems to happen with the warrant ones, and the devourer invasion ones
dense swallow
!bp
random comet
all your damage gets amped to the sky
dense swallow
!blackpowder
brave harbor
4 or more targets
stupid question coming
be ready
I got cringed
I'll delete after
lilac stag
You actually have to play the game
lofty barn
what's the gain to get autumn on nexus king
brave harbor
Okay I got my answer thanks
lilac stag
CDs up faster
brave harbor
so best thing to do is having 2 different macros for blades right?
lilac stag
Huh?
brave harbor
for both use trinkets
warm pond
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
covert meteor
If the trinkets are both 2 mins, add the first one you want to use first in order
lilac stag
people are macro happy. Sub isn’t a macro spec
lilac stag
If the trinkets are both 2 mins, add the first one you want to use first in orde...
We’re only using 2x on use with prism
covert meteor
If the trinket is lily + a 2min trinket, you can either add liky go blades or press both separately
brave harbor
yeah that is actually smart thing to do but on pull with bl I see only slide show
lilac stag
Raid or keys?
lilac stag
Use Kui Nameplates instead of platter in Raid
brave harbor
I dont think it will be enough 😄
covert meteor
We’re only using 2x on use with prism
Was going for that in mind. Although I use lily and prism in keys Edit: misread for araz+prism. 
weary saffron
!wa
wicked joltBOT
lilac stag
are you included in that we
wtf kinda drunkard do you think I am
covert meteor
short radish
oh wait i gaslamped myself into thinking you were using some cursed lily and signet combo
warm marlin
the lily pvp trinket 2x on use combo
short radish
lilac stag
signet convo really did you dirty eh?
mellow gull
!plater
short radish
signet convo really did you dirty eh?
its living rent free
short radish
i just hate it so much
why is that trinket so low stat
i get that it selects any stat or something but like
why is it behind a 1.5min trinket
lilac stag
why is it behind a 1.5min trinket
why does assa get every other spec's niche and still sucks?
short radish
lilac stag
now they're trying to steal our BUG niche. gtfo
signal moth
We’re only using 2x on use with prism
i mean using lily and prism together just feels so bad imo lol
iron ridge
1 dance charge, 45 sec until 2nd, Flag in 15, 2 charges Symbols and SecTec ready. Do i send Symbols into SecTec or do something else
lilac stag
i mean using lily and prism together just feels so bad imo lol
that's a you thing bud
lilac stag
1 dance charge, 45 sec until 2nd, Flag in 15, 2 charges Symbols and SecTec ready...
cast one more finisher and get dance down to 30 seconds and go
warm marlin
by the time flag will be up dance will be 30s away anyway
can pool or send one finisher
short radish
that's a you thing bud
nah having separate binds to use lily + blades and prism + blades is cringe
iron ridge
Okay so always wanna hold SecTec there
lilac stag
1.5 dance and 1.4 sod is kinda your baseline of what you need
signal moth
that's a you thing bud
well yh i didnt say its ass for you lol
lilac stag
nah having separate binds to use lily + blades and prism + blades is cringe
chase balls around or have a 2nd trinket bind.
lilac stag
dingo got his ball
prime ice
I'm loking lorrgs for Salhadaar, how are some people getting Flag again at 1:22? Sorry if this has been asked a bunch, I searched but didn't see anything
short radish
I'm loking lorrgs for Salhadaar, how are some people getting Flag again at 1:22?...
autumn
same for donny dimmy
prime ice
ahhhhhh okay, seems like it doesn't matter cause you end up with a total of 5 presses either way. What's the benefit to autumn?
lilac stag
you get flag up 9 seconds earlier
prime ice
I see, looks like burn in 4:25, so it lines up better. thanks guys!
I don't have holy pally anyway but interesting!
misty hedge
Do sub rouges get execute dmg?
woeful wren
is there actually a diff between rotten and finality for m+? sims showing me both at the same
brisk onyx
I'm loking lorrgs for Salhadaar, how are some people getting Flag again at 1:22?...
u need this one
regal rose
whats the reason we would run first dance talent is it better with or without it
tepid trellis
Do sub rouges get execute dmg?
no
regal rose
?
tepid trellis
talent is very strong, so yes run it in m+ always
regal rose
first dance ?
tepid trellis
yes
lilac stag
yes
regal rose
when do we have down tiem tho with constant chain pulls ?
lilac stag
vanish, or sit back a few seconds
tepid trellis
even just a few resets in a key it will heavily outperform weapon master which is the other option to run
lilac stag
WM is da poop
lilac stag
can add a border to your dance WA
regal rose
i thought we wanna vanish into a shadow strike on aoe so your sayign vanish wait 6 seconds on a aoe pull then dps ?
lilac stag
it's situational. you're likely not chainpulling the entire dungeon
the extra dance is big
so it's a worthwile use to sit back
regal rose
what about on a big aoe pull when vanish is rdy
do i vanish wait 6 secs then dops again ?
lilac stag
or just stay out of combat as the tank is pulling
regal rose
just trying to get an isea and situations when to wait and use it
ok but when i get vanish during a pull its ok to use it right away right
lilac stag
huh?
regal rose
say im on a big pull and vanish is about to pop up in 3 seconds what do i do when vanish is rdy
lilac stag
what
tepid trellis
you can do a vanish reset, if the tank is chaínpulling lets say 3mobs at 15% health into a new pack of 8
then what you would do is walk out from the pack press vanish when the tank walks towards new pack wait 6 seconds come back
send cds
big profit
lilac stag
i need more vodka for this
tepid trellis
its only remotely a thing in a scenario like that
lilac stag
learn how to drop combat as a rogue is the tldr
regal rose
ok so its ok to save vanish for situations like that i shouldnt just use it to keep dpsing right away
lilac stag
the extra strike is near useless
tepid trellis
so might as well use it for that or as a defensive to dodge a mechanic
regal rose
ok perfect ty is that how sub is getting huge burst on pulls ?
cause i dont burst that high
lilac stag
TFD has two buffs on your bar. one is the countdown til its up and another once it's up.
tepid trellis
most times you will see like 60mil bursts is when its a brand new pack so he has TFD up and has an 18 stack prism ready
regal rose
and on aoe we just spam black powder on aoe right ?
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
tepid trellis
on 4 or more targets you press BP over Evis
regal rose
thats what i ment 4 or more spam BP
lilac stag
i can't read your mind
regal rose
so 3 targets or less we jsur eviserate ?
short radish
i can't read your mind
skill issue
lilac stag
when you say spam BP i can only assuming youve got it bound to your foot pedal and you're playing double bass sub rogue
regal rose
lol naw my bad
short radish
my scroll up is bp and my scroll down is evis
regal rose
i dont have that trinket yet the prism thing
regal rose
i wish i had it
is that how sub is getting such high overal in m+ cause thats trinket gives them huge burst ?
tepid trellis
yes
regal rose
im doing like 7mill but the dk im wish is like 8 mill or higher
tepid trellis
well kinda, you can still good overall with just lily
lilac stag
with good routes you have a secondn on use that allows prism to stack to 18
regal rose
with*
rustic geyser
god I wish I could hit up the first pull in gambit with an 18 stacker
lilac stag
unless you're @short radish and can't hit two different trinket binds
tepid trellis
gives you 66k mainstat at 18 stacks
my character at 717 ilvl
has 89k
in total
thats ehm
ALOT
brisk onyx
does unbreakable stride work on any situation in M dimensius?
regal rose
how much overal should i be doing at 709 ilvl
tepid trellis
to many variables
regal rose
without that trinket
tepid trellis
cant say
regal rose
does 7.2 mill seem decent ?
tropic nimbus
when you say spam BP i can only assuming youve got it bound to your foot pedal a...
My foot hurts reading this
lilac stag
My foot hurts reading this
you're welcome
it could be worse, you could have black arrow bound to foot pedal
regal rose
what ilvl
tepid trellis
716.94
regal rose
problem is i dont raid so i dont think ill ever get that damn tinket
lilac stag
no reason not to pug heroic at least
regal rose
i try pugging its constant wiping
lilac stag
do it on reset day
tepid trellis
cant wait for dimmy to die
tribal blade
2nd key of the day with no warr or sham buff
still topped dps in a key without both buffs
but felt poopy
lilac stag
but do you have monk buff to help your feral?
tepid trellis
but do you have monk buff to help your feral?
did you see the funny i did earlier
tribal blade
and arcane intellect, but that's useless
lilac stag
did you see the funny i did earlier
no!
tepid trellis
someone asked me for a log review while i was mid raid
and i managed to sent a screenshot of me fighting p1 dimensiues
mid pull
lilac stag
lol
tepid trellis
quickest alt tabber in the west
lilac stag
i was trying to help topenepneko but raid got in the way
i realized I struggle helping people that struggle with written instruction
log review turns into how do I explain the basics
the entry cost into this spec really is crazy for most people
lilac stag
and you look at some of the cringe shit to bypass bugs and its wtf
ie the macro discussion in research
makes me miss Sephuz
outlaw I think has a high entry cost too, but in a different way. just the speed of it. idk how we ended up here, but here we are.
icy mulch
drowsy moon
do u guys still use black powder
lilac stag
!aoe
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
like paladins
lilac stag
we do prio dmg with everything else
lilac stag
sectech coup are prio
drowsy moon
oh
lilac stag
evis and BP are so close it really doesn't matter. if evis makes you feel better about prio, go for it
drowsy moon
I just odnt like going oom on bosses
D:
so I dont play assa in keys
and sub is super cool
drowsy moon
evis and BP are so close it really doesn't matter. if evis makes you feel bette...
nein is bp
lilac stag
i think people let feels get in the way for the actual difference evis/bp is, but that's just me
warm marlin
if you want actual prio dmg
is it really that bad?
st in keys is relatively high and you're mostly doing st rotation in packs
lilac stag
strike, coup and sectech are the "prio"
warm marlin
youre not a funnel spec obv
lilac stag
but adding evis is whatever imo
and i think people think it's big
idk if that makes sense
strong ingot
Very
short radish
between our ST and M+ builds
lilac stag
toss blades on the prio and just go to town with ST roation + bp
tepid trellis
tbf havoc funnel is actually disgusting
lilac stag
havoc is insane
strong ingot
You just need 1 heavy prio class and enough prio scraped together from the last two DPS to make sure high hp dies at same time as rest of pack ideally
lilac stag
but funnel isnt prio
tepid trellis
well havoc kinda do prio dmg naturally its just their fucking glaive that does infinite funnel
so if you went fel scarred for example
it basically just does single target to do AoE
and does quite alot of it
tribal blade
seems like if you wanna play sub in keys you want 1 funnel spec in the key
arcane/havoc
then the dmg profile becomes healthy
warm marlin
so if you went fel scarred for example
they have a reverse funnel talent in fs like fatebound
its not amazing
plush roost
Youre pretty much mashing powder at all times
tribal blade
but might be playing with bad arcanes
tepid trellis
they have a reverse funnel talent in fs like fatebound
if that wasent a thing
strong ingot
Feel like we should never be close to arcane in prio in a funnel scenario
tepid trellis
fel scarred would do rediculous AoE dmg
plush roost
Shoutout uncapped felscarred in season 1
tepid trellis
surge is still 2nd 3rd on my break down on AoE
strong ingot
I need to get my mitts on a netherprism, this is getting brutal
strong ingot
Make it 2
tepid trellis
Shoutout uncapped felscarred in season 1
like imagine bro
and my DH is piss geared
hoary lotus
can I step the knockback on fractilius with no downside
tepid trellis
yes as long as you let it actually make u fly a tiny bit
then you are fine to step
vernal junco
ye
pulsar hemlock
honest dome
ignore them and let others play them
hoary lotus
sub hitting tangles is int
warm depot
so just send as shit comes up?
hoary lotus
literally don't hit them 😮
tepid trellis
play it like a normal patchwerk fight
warm depot
ight
vernal junco
guys, need some help
I dont quite understand the cooldown arrangement for araz’s second rotation
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gqKbBD4njchzCFYk?fight=6&type=damage-done
this feels wrong
tepid trellis
just remember the boss takes 33% more dmg from 50% onwards
warm marlin
you can try to save a dance for tangles if they are getting close to melee
tepid trellis
(i found out yesterday)
warm marlin
but rogue is just bad at them in general
warm depot
hope my rl doesnt kill me next night
warm marlin
idk tell ele/destro/sp to just annihilate them
warm depot
ya i did notice it felt significantly better on the soaks i had cloak on
i coudl just sit on boss
but idk my sense of duty told me to swap
brisk onyx
!def
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <
timber monolith
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
jovial ginkgo
open vortex
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
light island
time to fullswap to sub and pray it clicks
south sedge
does supercharge with coup matter?
kindred heart
hey can someone help me out on a stat question
tepid trellis
does supercharge with coup matter?
not really, you only care about super charging sectech
kindred heart
i forgot how to sim havent done it since legion or bfa
does this sound bad 20% crit 117% mastery 23% verse 2% haste
tepid trellis
if id have to guess, the robot would tell you to get some crit
but def worth to sit down and learn how to sim again
there aint no breakpoints
its all relative
south sedge
not really, you only care about super charging sectech
Was just thinking since the 2nd coup is 150% effectiveness then the 2 extra cp from supercharger would be worth more. Like in the opener right before your 2nd dance, sometimes you get lucky and proc another coup at the end of you first dance, would it be optimal to try fit in symbols > 2nd coup > cb/sectec > 2nd dance
lucid jackal
There are probably sequences you can do yourself that give you supercharged coups but
tepid trellis
still doesent come close to the DPE of sectech
lucid jackal
The only important part is getting supercharger on sectec
kindred heart
is there an easy mod to sim
south sedge
fair enough
jagged rover
and we started nexus king prog tonight. Fight feels fun, lets see how I feel in another 100+ pulls
coral bear
Hi guys, was curious, what is better to Overcharge 1st,
2nd Coup de Grace or Secret Technique?
Whats stronger
Lets say I have Secret Technique Up, and my 1st Coup de Grace is ready to be used
Would I > Coup de Grace
- Symbols (+ SD if available)
- Then Secret Technique 1st? or Secret Technique
Lets say i was overcapping the CDR on secret Technique
Just wanna know who has the best raw damage
vernal junco
!prekey
slate lantern
Would I > Coup de Grace
- Symbols (+ SD if available)
- Then Secret Technique 1s...
You always supercharge sectec, and inside your cds you are sending it asap, and you want to get the cdr from coup on sectec so it should always be first
vernal junco
!prepull
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
slate lantern
20s before key start
coral bear
You always supercharge sectec, and inside your cds you are sending it asap, and ...
So Secret Technique PRIO?
gOT IT
Thank u
lusty epoch
i feel like the disoriented strikes cheese might only be a slight dps increase, but it also prevents bad rng that reduce your dmg by 50% in the opener
some pulls just are horrible when bad rng strikes
so i always try to do it when wipe is called
coral bear
if u die do u lose the buff doe?
lusty epoch
no
lusty epoch
you have it after death
short radish
!cheese
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
lusty epoch
xD
obtuse shard
pine mirage
Can someone show me the sd + tea macro?
dusk stone
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
short radish
!tea
wicked joltBOT
Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
manic island
bro what is it with HoA that makes people struggle so bad
tepid trellis
they did yes
plush roost
i mean i know, but man it feels eaaasy
tepid trellis
they nerfed the dmg intake quite alot and only having to do 2x gravity on each side is massive
p2 is probs the hardest part of the fight now
lucid jackal
Every part of the fight used to be hard
P1 doesn't cause like, 60-100 wipes
Lol
Post nerf that is
tepid trellis
we are 100 pulls in and we are in p3
we did have 1 night of pre nerf pulls
so it made p1 super consistent for us
after the nerfs
distant vale
I just abandoned assassin and came here...hi
lilac stag
i can sometimes rival arcane mages in prio
are they asleep?
worldly remnant
Hence the sometimes
rotund urchin
!wa
wicked joltBOT
strange chasm
Every part of the fight used to be hard
Fight gets infinitely easier next week with another gear reset and 3% as well
Probably is only a 150 pull fight now if ok
azure thicket
so uh how good are the raid finder version of the reshii shoes
wispy zephyr
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
short radish
so uh how good are the raid finder version of the reshii shoes
about 40% as good as mythic
50% as good as heroic
66.67% as good as normal
azure thicket
ye just simmed it and 4/6 heroic boots are 10k dps higher in a dslice
hollow spear
It's probably as good as it sims
azure thicket
h'weird
fast elbow
I see a lot of people use shadowblades before dance and sod in logs why?
short radish
I see a lot of people use shadowblades before dance and sod in logs why?
which logs
name them
azure thicket
wait no read it again, ye vet reshii and hero boots are the same and it's about 1% overall increase to get hero track
vet track is a 0.2% increase in st over regular hero track shoues
maybe they're using a macro?
gilded ferry
how valuable is the boots
that 40% reshii stuff
i tried to sim, but was like 1% increase?
azure thicket
petpet the sub rogue
tough crypt
Any chance someone who's much better at sub could go threw a few of my worst fight and tell me how to do better? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mhNfFRPWYrxj62ck?fight=5&type=damage-done&modal=fight-selection
unkempt drum
How are you getting flurry this high? I'm having trouble getting the right proportion of that, does it just mean I'm missing the rotation? It tends to land at about 27% of my damage and all good logs are over 30-33% it seems
obtuse orbit
So I have Netherprism and Lilly. How do I play with those two since Lilly is1.5 min and is always up for windows?
shadow lance
iron ridge
If i go with coup + Shadow Tech stacks ready into CDs do i wanna dance -> Symbols -> Backstab -> 2x Coup into SecTec or 1x Coup into SecTech, Storm, Coup? Or play it different
nova cairn
How are you getting flurry this high? I'm having trouble getting the right propo...
Are you comparing priory to priory?
vale pine
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
narrow shadow
Lili with prism sounds like it feels terrible tho
civic lava
Lili with prism sounds like it feels terrible tho
it does
vale pine
its not the best
civic lava
Do you guys have perhaps cookie cutter advice for Sub in M+ ? i'm talking easy mistakes beginner does that gimp dps and such ? Weird question maybe but if you guys have some wisdom i'll take it
short radish
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
short radish
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
short radish
if you get like 80% of use out of your flag/blades just send it dont hold
especially dont hold if they do a small pull
you do big burst but its never worth holding
narrow shadow
I would say 2 things apply in general:
-
Get good game knowledge about all mechanics so you know when something will comes that forces you out of melee to time your burst windows around those mechanics.
-
practice on dummies, or things like delves. Muscle memory is big
unkempt drum
Are you comparing priory to priory?
Yeah, I actually just did one. But also just across keys when I compare logs of a similar level I tend to be lower on flurry. The one I recently ran my flurry damage was like 2.7bn to his 3.8bn or so, maybe it's partly positioning?
vale pine
Do you guys have perhaps cookie cutter advice for Sub in M+ ? i'm talking easy m...
The most common mistake is cooldown management, people don't use cooldowns when they are up or hold them for the perfect opportunity.
In general, its many times better to use cooldowns than to wait on them.
But this high level overview helps for both m+ and raid
civic lava
DO you guys take the time to setup ruptures before blasting with cd ? or if you have cd is it better to just put the one rutpure on your target and go ham ?
narrow shadow
I usually rupture with tricks up whole tank is gathering
vale pine
a few rupture casts don't hurt
especially if you go in a big pull with mobs that don't blow up in a few secs
narrow shadow
I play with a warrior so it takes him ages to gather, in fact I often pull certain packs for him haha. So those moments are good to rupture before all is gathered and u can begin
civic lava
When playing CB in M+ , do you guys try to do the same opener as raid and send it with the second Sec tech or is it really pull dependant and go ham on 1st sec tech ?
fair cloak
When we do raid and i use my burst im only second, below ele feom guild
But when in off cd he is still going strong
How to catch up
plucky parrot
if you're talking about pure single target it's expected to fall behind
sub in sustained st is kinda dookie
civic lava
Do this channel do log review ?
vale pine
type !log and if someone has time he will take a look
civic lava
!log
rotund urchin
know how to remove this
spring elm
why did blizz take away our increased melee range and give it to ret pallys
midnight coral
should i use a 710 lily with netherprism over a 723 antenna for mythic nexus king?
late elm
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TWRjgYt6BnH7zbP1?fight=2&type=casts&source=21&view=timeline how can i check how many CP i have when i used some spells
pure pollen
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
twin trench
How good is double on use ACTUALLY compared to prism/antenna? specifically in keys but both are valuable contributions
mythic antenna*
lavish acorn
especially if you go in a big pull with mobs that don't blow up in a few secs
Hey mate are you doing vod reviews based on paid patreon or something
fair stump
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
fair stump
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
prime glen
!sims
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
vale pine
Hey mate are you doing vod reviews based on paid patreon or something
i don't have a patreon, nor do i offer coaching.
You can do a !log and i might be able to look later. (can post the vod in the thread)
You can also just ask questions, and will get an answer ^^
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fair stump
backstab for danse macabre is a 1% optimization?
vale pine
roughly yes
most optimizations are in the range of ~1-1.5%, sometimes less
tho we have a lot of small optimizations, so it adds up
lavish acorn
Not sure if my question is simple enough to get answered. I rerolled sub last monday. I was generally doing fine on first 6 bosses, and on king i just couldnt do shit.
I compared my casts to the rank 1 guy and literally same sequence on platform intermission yield him 300m more damage
I did a log review and ill be waiting then
Dont want to suck that bad for dimensius 
vale pine
did you have the same gear
trinkets/etc?
because if you did "evetything the same"
it could just come down to him using double on use trinkets
while you used only prism
for example
lavish acorn
I do have forge + prism
vale pine
ah fair
lavish acorn
2 ilvl lower cuz late char
Maybe im coping about same cast sequence but thats why i need help i guess
vale pine
could be down to rng then
vale pine
what logs are good for is to see how people rotate cooldowns
idk how you can copy someones rotation because many things are reactional things
like coup procs ^^
fringe palm
I compared my casts to the rank 1 guy and literally same sequence on platform in...
did you compare titan damage? add dmg varies a lot
lavish acorn
I mean ive had platforms with 800m+ but on kill it was like 550 ish
lavish acorn
did you compare titan damage? add dmg varies a lot
No i didnt actually smart
lavish acorn
But i lacked on amp as well, missing 200-300m 
fringe palm
for prog if youre >300m on titan youre doing ok id say
lavish acorn
I mean i jumped in very late
plucky parrot
But i lacked on amp as well, missing 200-300m <:reallydespair:133280056145556688...
Yeah the amp is significant
lavish acorn
Did 90% of prog as other char
plucky parrot
If you can pull 800m in amp you’re gaming but there’s a lot of variance with coup procs etc
lavish acorn
My titan was 278m
fringe palm
there was a log of one rogue doing 900m a couple weeks ago and i still think it had to be bugged xd
vale pine
the crit one
from fractilus?
he got either a lot of luck
or there was some shananigans with the log
lavish acorn
IDk i posted in log review if anyone wants to help, i did fine first 3 bosses, i need to study araz a lot so lets ignore that, id do like a solid 95+ on soul hunters if i didnt die, my bad 100%, and fract we had a 4:30 kill so i missed 18 prism window
fringe palm
nah 900m in nexus king amp
vale pine
oh wow
fringe palm
he was 707 or smth so i just dont see it
vale pine
insane luck?
fringe palm
was private log so i cant check
fringe palm
but thats still 100-150m above everything i had on prog xd
vale pine
think going for logs becomes more and more difficult
with just how much of logging is padding or luck
lavish acorn
I mean i dont even entirelt care about prog logs but
lavish acorn
Doing 5,2m on king is below expectations
vale pine
assuming you want to go for the rank 1 log
vale pine
lol
oblique burrow
could someone look at my logs to see what i did wrong on the fourth boss on mythic?
lilac stag
Use !log
lavish acorn
I also generally have no clue how people fit 2 st in one sd on pull
I swear i never had enough cdr for it
hoary bloom
Bl maybe ?
lavish acorn
On king
So Nope
Well my biggest difficulty is that im swapping from a character that ive pretty much mastwred all 3 specs and could consistently farm 99s any difficulty
So its hard dropping the bar to gray logs
Especially when i dont understand what am i doing wrong
oblique burrow
what was your previous class ?
vale pine
I also generally have no clue how people fit 2 st in one sd on pull
thats proc dependent
you can disorient pre pull to help
!prepull
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
lavish acorn
what was your previous class ?
Hunter
I dont really mind going melee
I did survival, while its not fully melee it was a start
Im a gm of wr100-150 guild and since we are only polish, its like 7 gazilion times easier to recruit a hunter and our guild never has rogue
So i want to commit and fully main it
fair stump
fuu, what are the optimizations that we have? Is there a l ist s omewhere?
haughty rose
speaking of logs, can someone tell me how to live log this season? I'm too lazy to manually split and upload the logs and seeing my logs change seconds after a kill i assume live logging is possible. anyway, WL's live log feature from the companion app doesn't work for me for whatever reason
fair stump
speaking of logs, can someone tell me how to live log this season? I'm too lazy ...
I just use the standalone app and the live log works just fine
tender patrol
So i want to commit and fully main it
I think sub Rogue is really Hard to Master im having a really hard time as well.
Never was that Hard for me to Play a Class on a Good Level
Don’t Stress yourself out Just Play and practice
fringe palm
So i want to commit and fully main it
takes some time, playing m+ helps a lot with learning any class. if youre consistently doing 280m on titan youre not griefing. youll be fine
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
haughty rose
I just use the standalone app and the live log works just fine
it's the warcraft log companion app in combination either overwolf right? i used that too in s2 and i had no issues but i noticed it's not working for me so i hopped onto their discord and asked and they made it seem like it's not even supposed to work like that. but i got confused with what they actually mean so i abandoned the conversation
vale pine
then there are a lot of small ones
like using backstab in dance once dufing premeditation
refresh rupture early enough to not cast during flag
fair stump
it's the warcraft log companion app in combination either overwolf right? i used...
I'm not sure, I never used warcraft log companion app
I despise overwolf software so I avoid it if possible
haughty rose
I'm not sure, I never used warcraft log companion app
which one are you using?
vale pine
holding coup de grace if you proc it close to flagellation
fair stump
The uploader
fair stump
holding coup de grace if you proc it close to flagellation
yeah, I've been doing that, how close is enough to hold?
like, at 30 seconds should I send?
haughty rose
that was the conversation and i'm too stupid to understand it
vale pine
at max like 20 sec
fair stump
that was the conversation and i'm too stupid to understand it
So first you need to activate the advanced logging in the network tab on the game's settings
vale pine
that was the conversation and i'm too stupid to understand it
what is the question you ask
fair stump
Once you do that, you do /combatlog
And then you press the "Go" button on the second image
That should be enough to live log
vale pine
if you want to combat log for yourself:
- go into network settings and activate advanced logging
- Use an addon to activate logging or type /combatlog to start logging
- Use the wcl uploader on your combat log to upload to the website
fair stump
at max like 20 sec
got it, what if I'm energy starved around 30 seconds? should I stop pressing buttons?
dense mountain
yo fuu whats the condition for the sim to send a dance after the first 2 in the opener? seems pretty natural to send the 3rd as soon as sectec comes off cd but just curious if the sim waits for coup stacks or somethign
vale pine
i don't understand the question
fossil forge
Spam backstab angle to get shadowcraft for cds
vale pine
yo fuu whats the condition for the sim to send a dance after the first 2 in the ...
sim does not wait for coup stacks, but secret cooldown is considered
this is the top level overview of cooldown management for sub
ofc how you do it on a "per boss" basis will differ
brisk creek
Shuriken tornado inside our outside of shjadow dance?
short radish
Shuriken tornado inside our outside of shjadow dance?
never. its a dog shit talent thats overrated
brisk creek
oh rly?
short radish
but probably outside dance to build rupture stacks
yeah
just dont play it man
your life will be so much easier without it
vale pine
Shuriken tornado inside our outside of shjadow dance?
you would typically use it as a filler or on higher target counts during symbols
brisk creek
bro
dense mountain
yeah thanks fuu, i was more trying to see if its better for roll the flawless stacks from the opener into the 3rd dance or wait for coup, assuming no downtime or adds. ty beast ❤️
vale pine
but it might be better to use it instead of shuriken storm between coup procs
brisk creek
i just googled it thats literlaly the dude i copied the talents from thats funny
im not good at sub, should i just not play it
brisk creek
i was trying to shuriken tornado and spread ruptures before going into my go buttons
but it delayerd my dam so much and i was holding onto cds
for seconds i shouldnt in big pakcs
haughty rose
That should be enough to live log
weird that's always how i did it so far and i definitely had 2 or 3 bosses this season where i had a higher dps than previously and nothing was uploaded
all the logs were saved on my pc and pretty much ready to split snd upload manually but yeah, i'm lazy
guess it's some technical fuckery then
topaz egret
Tornado is nice dude why flaem:c
brisk creek
replicating shadows is way more chill
this is the spec i landed on for m+ is this good or do i wan tto go into replicating shadows?
empty plume
isn't that just the ST build
which is fine if u want
I prefer exhilarating execution over ephemeral bond
fossil forge
U swap for finality once u have enough crit no
hazy breach
If you want to
plucky parrot
I honestly find it weirder to play with rotten
Half the time I want to apply fw I'm sitting on UB stacks I wanna use to build to a new coup
hazy breach
The storming in dance rule doesnt change with rotten
You still dont want to do it (unless its with coup ready)
cursive island
Guys, should I do : SD, Symbols, Backstab or Symbols, SD, Backstab
Is kinda all at the same time but on theory what should I do ? 🙂
hazy breach
Guys, should I do : SD, Symbols, Backstab or Symbols, SD, Backstab
Is kinda al...
Literally doesnt matter
cursive island
Ok ty
short radish
You still dont want to do it (unless its with coup ready)
wait so even with TFD and rotten you dont want to dance + symbols +ss to apply FW?
that sounds wack
my feelycraft 
hazy breach
You can do symbols > storm > dance
topaz egret
Play tornado, it auto applies 😉
short radish
Play tornado, it auto applies 😉
begone satan, i reject thee
native hawk
tornado 😡
hazy breach
But yeah nado good
oblique burrow
do we shuriken storm before our dance to apply weakness in aoe?
plucky parrot
So you can sectech > storm > coup
yeah if I have coup this feels nice
but the times where I don't going into a pull it feels a bit jank
fringe mauve
are we supposed to backstab after dance and sod even at full combo point ?
hazy breach
no
oblique burrow
Love you eleem
zinc dagger
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
scarlet oyster
right side should look like this
I don't get why people play rotten and then do dance > symbol > backstab
short radish
gives guaranteed fw with the backstab
scarlet oyster
I took a log to chinese logs, they do dance > symbol > shuriken, which is much more logical as it crits it gives fw in aoe
scarlet oyster
gives guaranteed fw with the backstab
yes but EU ppl do it even in AOE
from most of the log I checked
scarlet oyster
oke
scarlet oyster
The storming in dance rule doesnt change with rotten
I don't get it, it means the 6% bonus from the backstab with dance macabre compensate FW on everyone for 10 seconds ?
scarlet oyster
backstab uses unseen blade yes, but shuriken doesn't waste a proc either, you can always use unseen on the next builder with a shadowstrike
hazy breach
If you have coup up thats fine yes to not waste a stack
But if you dont you want to proc coup asap
scarlet oyster
If you have coup up thats fine yes to not waste a stack
ye either coup up or unseen in cd and no high probability of thousand cuts proc
hazy breach
Most of your finishers in dance are gonna be coup+sectech anyway
So fw doesnt even do that much
But again, you can storm before dance
If you really want to make sure you have fw up on all targets
You just want dances to use globals that actually do damage
scarlet oyster
So fw doesnt even do that much
it depends, during the first dance you can use a lot of bp, this is a log from a chinese guy he always does this xd
hazy breach
And shuriken storm does fuckall damage
vestal escarp
scarlet oyster
If you really want to make sure you have fw up on all targets
ye something good would be to symbol > shuriken > dance -> normal way
hazy breach
But for your big burst you should have coup setup, or nearly setup anyway
vale pine
https://youtube.com/shorts/z-L7EtDTAk4?si=Jn4y73uQG_FtWl5u
to be fair, you can skill into cdr on shroud
hazy breach
So you wouldnt need to
hazy breach
ye aoe blind is ignored because he also ignored boomkins aoe stop which has literally half the cooldown
vale pine
fair
vestal escarp
vestal escarp
They choppin rog so well out there
hazy breach
Casual back on DK 
vale pine
the problem is more that rogues utility was in survivability
queen plinth
fuu would u mind reviewing my loomi log
vale pine
did you !log?
vale pine
Casual back on DK <:antennaglorp:1410496077362364549>
think kush too
tender patrol
How much overall should the 4 set do in a key ?
queen plinth
well i puzgged first 3 mythic yesterday
vale pine
sub probably starts to fall off now
when stuff survives
and our initial burst does not sustain long enough
vestal escarp
Everyone is going dk
tender patrol
DK is giga broken ig
queen plinth
tender patrol
But frost is as boring as it good is
vale pine
i mean dk is:
- Unkillable
- brings grip
- does ungodly amount of damage
- easy to play
vestal escarp
90s cds but
tender patrol
Frost is so boring
karmic harbor
dk grip is so nice man
tender patrol
They should give Warrior grip like they did in SOD 😄
queen plinth
!log
tender patrol
Yeah but i playerd warrior since i started to play wow
and the gameplay loop is the same since idk how long
topaz egret
Frost dk boss damage is just ridiculous in m+ tbh
Can probably play fdk and sub in the same comp in a few dungs
tender patrol
Yeah im wondering that it didnt get nerfed
because it feels very off for me
but im not the one to judge ig
vestal escarp
Not broken in raid so no nerfs
tender patrol
but it felt absurd even with no gear and 690 ilvl i did like 20m burst or smth
fossil forge
so many frost abusers but theres like 1 good frost every 10 keys
topaz egret
Not broken in raid? 
vestal escarp
Sorry brotherimus, not an outlier in statistics on wcl 
hazy breach
Not broken in raid? <a:SUSSY:889019338592485386>
See sub is really bad in raid, we must get buffs
fossil forge
Nerf bp buff evis
oblique burrow
all raid rogues needs a buff
karmic harbor
Nerf bp buff evis
many people are saying this
vale pine
See sub is really bad in raid, we must get buffs <:antennaglorp:1410496077362364...
i mean its essentially every single target boss, not only fractilus
fossil forge
Anyways they will probably look at the chart and buff mage and hunter anyways
Aug hidden op
vale pine
and soul hounters too probably
moment, let me check
ye
we essentially get carried by damage amps and add fights
vale pine
sub should be better here
because of how front loaded we are, so downtime should not matter much
but the fight just isn't well deisgned in general
oblique burrow
Yeah its hectic
but i'll still play sub, easier to target swap/burst down the higher health boss
vale pine
you also kinda see what some others complain about
vestal escarp
You hold a full prism burst for too much on soul hunters, that really tanks dps
vale pine
that simualtions don't matter
fossil forge
Outlaw is fkin blasting on soulhunters though
vale pine
if you limit your fights to the single target ones
you see a very similar picture to sims tho
sullen hare
This warrants at least a 8% evis buff
Best I can do is 12.5% buff to shadowed finisher on black powder only
vestal escarp
K sounds good
steep raven
How can I add multiple soleah buffs into sim?
wet echo
don't think it's possible to have multiple?
i seem to remember in SL that 2 ppl couldn't use so'leah on same target
hazy breach
It also doesnt matter, the ally buff is miniscule and irrelevant
steep raven
Well, it changes which gem im using in cloak, my stats are really close
hazy breach
The only thing the sim has option for is for what stats you get while wearing it
Its not gonna meaningfully change anything no
wet echo
you're digging for margin of error dps gains
tight monolith
yeah
steep raven
Well, I'm dumb. No one has vers as main stat, so I'm not getting it reliably anyways
clever delta
Sadge time to call it
steep raven
Very unlucky to have it as my passive trinket (and it's mythic). Only mythic antenna is upgrade :(
keen dome
time to become a pet battle champion
barren sandal
Hey i'm new to roguesub and wanna improve can someone tell me why i'm bad ? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rGACdwk3HgRthp24?fight=5&type=damage-done
scarlet oyster
The only thing the sim has option for is for what stats you get while wearing it
I had another doubt,
Is it worth to send the 3rd dance after CDs to keep the good flawless form stack, or is it better to rebuild a coup before sending the next dance ?
karmic harbor
Hey i'm new to roguesub and wanna improve can someone tell me why i'm bad ? http...
you're using cb on your first sectec in blades, should be on the 2nd one
cinder idol
hey guys, im on 25% versa 104% mastery should i pot mastery or versa on m+ ?
errant steeple
hey guys, im on 25% versa 104% mastery should i pot mastery or versa on m+ ?
104% mastery 🤨
spring elm
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
spring elm
what causes tricks bug and how do you fix it
short radish
vestal escarp
260 ilvl next expac 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️
barren sandal
you're using cb on your first sectec in blades, should be on the 2nd one
Is that all i do wrong ?
karmic harbor
Is that all i do wrong ?
your firsg gcd after flags seems to be a builder instead of a finisher
i didnt check how many gcds you get in dance but you could check that too
barren sandal
Yeah true make that mistake a lot now that u point it out
Quick question if i have a coup de grace proc like 5 sec before my burst would it be worth it to keep it or should i spend it anyway
vale pine
How can I add multiple soleah buffs into sim?
profileset."haste"+="shadowlands.soleahs_secret_technique_type=haste"
profileset."vers"+="trinket1=soleahs_secret_technique,id=190958,ilevel=723"
profileset."vers"+="shadowlands.soleahs_secret_technique_type=versatility"
profileset."mastery"+="trinket1=soleahs_secret_technique,id=190958,ilevel=723"
profileset."mastery"+="shadowlands.soleahs_secret_technique_type=mastery"
profileset."crit"+="trinket1=soleahs_secret_technique,id=190958,ilevel=723"
profileset."crit"+="shadowlands.soleahs_secret_technique_type=crit"```btu as eleem mentioned, everything not haste is good
barren sandal
And also if i proc one outise of any burst should the second one be spent with any cp
short radish
Quick question if i have a coup de grace proc like 5 sec before my burst would i...
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
steep raven
```profileset."haste"+="trinket1=soleahs_secret_technique,id=190958,ilevel=723"
...
Yeah I know haste=bad, I wanted to check vers/mastery. Thank you :)
vale pine
you need to paste it in advanced sim below your /simc
zinc belfry
!wa
wicked joltBOT
vale pine
(also make sure you have the trinket in slot 1)
hazy breach
I had another doubt,
Is it worth to send the 3rd dance after CDs to keep the go...
If sectech is ready (or has less than 1 finisher left of cdr) you can send your third dance ye
hazy breach
what causes tricks bug and how do you fix it
Not sure what you mean with tricks bug
barren sandal
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
spring elm
I just did a dungeon and mobs melee'd me with tricks up. Never happened before
barren sandal
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
hazy breach
I just did a dungeon and mobs melee'd me with tricks up. Never happened before
Somebody needs to have pulled the mobs before you shadowstrike in
It takes a millisecond or two for the game to transfer the threat so If the mobs havent been touched theyll just whack you once before the threat is transfered
You can open with shuriken storm on them (as its slightly longer range than melee)