subtlety

[steel jolt]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[limber relic]

Relog. Its bugged

[scenic plover]

How does resetting a boss as sub work

[west tide]

shuriken toss vanish

[sinful depot]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LFzaxGnQYdM7N6yc?fight=21&view=rankings

mythic araz log - send help

[daring raptor]

Question guys. i sim 10k less with myth track belt 714ilvl compared to the delve belt.
Would you swap, or ?

[west tide]

probably for the stam if its a big diff 10k is like 0.2%

[barren sandal]

Is there a crazy good rogue sub that can tell me what i am doing wrong i can't get above 90 on hm difficulty and i have no clue why i deal no dmg

[daring raptor]

yeah what i was thinking aswell and just havintg more sustain dmg. like you get 700 more agi and have vers mas stats all the time

[daring raptor]

link logs mate then we can help

[scenic plover]

înstant?

[barren sandal]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/70964107?difficulty=4&spec=Subtlety&class=Rogue

I'm frustrated

[honest dome]

thats your cd window in the first dmg amp, which has serveral mistakes. Backstab into dance/sod > Backstab. (first BS ist useless). You should've pooled coup before entering the dmg amp so use it as first finisher before your first ST - Coup > ST > Coup. And always use CB with your 2nd ST

get the cd basics right and your 90% g2g

[sinful depot]

Thanks dude @honest dome

Doesnt the 2nd ST fall outside of damage amp though? Or does that not matter

[honest dome]

depends when you start, if you start a little bit earlier you get your 2nd ST with CB in there

[sinful depot]

Farming coup makes sense

Ahhh

Yeah thats makes sense

I delayed quite a bit

Thats why there is that random backstab

So you saying to send prior to the dmaage amp cause either way you only get one ST in there, right?

[near rivet]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[tiny mauve]

I keep hearing from guildies that sub is a funnel spec but I'm not seeing it, is this true?

[honest dome]

yep

[wise vortex]

Not anymore

[grim pewter]

what are the factors that lead to a 3rd sectec inside flag window? pooling shadow technique stacks and coup mainly? or is lust required too?

[swift tinsel]

Not since BFA

[smoky geyser]

They may be confused by what funnel means

[tidal marsh]

BfA was just like a month ago, right?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah certainly not like six or seven years

[tidal marsh]

[scenic plover]

how do i disable stealth bar?

[swift tinsel]

Probs an addon

[harsh grotto]

guys im stupid, why do we use bp @ 4 targets? feels like i do no dps when i do

[swift tinsel]

Idk if you can in base ui

Elvui probs has the option too if you’re using that

[smoky geyser]

more dam then nimble on 4

than*

[harsh grotto]

still feels like im griefing when i try it

[tidal marsh]

Just stop feeling that way

[smoky geyser]

Here is my simple likely wrong napkin math, Black Powder is like 75% of an eviscerate

[final pecan]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[smoky geyser]

4x75% = 300% dmg, while 100%+3x60% = 280%

300%>280% bigger number wins

[harsh grotto]

i like big numbers, you convinced me

[final pecan]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[warm marlin]

not far off

[smoky geyser]

yeah its definitely not exactly 75% but eyeballing it looks to be around there

[magic dove]

Is "the first dance" really better than "weaponmaster"?

[slate lantern]

Weaponmaster is awful

[magic dove]

Its so awful that 4 extra seconds on one dance is better?

that's crazy

[random comet]

There are some real stinkers in some of the talent trees masquerading as something useful

[hazy breach]

15% more damage on strike and backstab

And a handful of combo points

Like i checked a 10 min dimmensius log with weaponmaster, he is getting around 12 cps from weaponmaster

[gilded ferry]

times are indeed changing

someone is working on wowanalyzer for sub

i thought i never was going to see that again

[final pecan]

!log

[umbral halo]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[golden totem]

With tfd, do we send 2nd sectec at the end of the first dance if we get it back?
I don't out of habit but that might be wrong

[magic dove]

To be clear, if you have a macro for Symbols + Dance + bs, and also individual keybinds for each of those, that's still good

right?

[hazy breach]

Yeah

[golden totem]

Is that an answer for Andrew or me

[tidal marsh]

Yeah

[hazy breach]

Yeah

But its yeah for both

[golden totem]

Thanks

[alpine wraith]

yea

[magic dove]

ye

[lilac stag]

Yeet

[coarse agate]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rigid delta]

!logs

[granite river]

you saying link the sim made me realize immediately what i did wrong lmao

had it on 3 bosses 5 min

[signal moth]

anyone here play a secondary mmo that is more on the exploring/chill side of the world?

[rustic dagger]

13 keys 2 items this game is shocking

[winged vine]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[winged vine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[west tide]

what do i do when i have max cp flag is available symbols dance

rupture already up bigly

[tepid trellis]

you either flag-rupture-dance-stab
or
flag-dance-sectech

[willow pawn]

How much of a loss is macroing blades + symbols

[west tide]

i see ok

[final pecan]

!wa

[willow pawn]

Or it doesn’t matter

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[sturdy delta]

Why do top log rogues use secret techniques before shadow blades? Just to get more stacks on flag, or because the animation is so slow and the buff will be applied fast enough.

[main tapir]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lusty solar]

Ye the damage increase is applied to secret tech

Its just a better use of GCDs inside shadow blades

[sturdy delta]

Ok 👌

[fast iron]

hi guys! very new to rogue. literally never touched before.

is wowhead good/reliable?

[north schooner]

yes

[fast iron]

thanks 🙂

[slate lantern]

That's not even a macro we don't recommend

[willow pawn]

Kk so good to go

[slate lantern]

Did you mean dance + symbols?

Blades and symbols doesn't even make sense

[willow pawn]

When I press shadow blades, I auto use symbols as well

Works for me idk

[slate lantern]

So you only use symbols every 1.30?

[willow pawn]

No XD

I have a separate button for symbols

But every 1:30 I press macro for shadow + symbols

[supple plinth]

guys when do i send teas in sub +?

[slate lantern]

Oh yeah w.e if you have a second bind

[slate lantern]

Macro with dance and forget it

[unkempt drum]

For that first pull in Streets, do y'all send a non-flag dance and that's it, or just no CDs? Since the lust pull is the second one

[slate lantern]

We don't benefit from lust

I mean I guess better energy regen

[unkempt drum]

But we do benefit from blowing CDs on a larger pack, no? Target caps notwithstanding

[supple plinth]

in aoe do i only shuriken storm only to apply find weakness in more than 4 targets? other deathstrike riught?

[hazy breach]

Yes but you dont want to sit on your cooldowns

Generally if the mobs will live through your cooldowns you should send

[glad rampart]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[lilac stag]

You only storm in dance between coups

[glad rampart]

!atro

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[supple plinth]

ty

[glad rampart]

!cbuf

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[glad rampart]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[supple plinth]

do i use shuriken outside of any cd to build combo points?

[cursive spear]

In AOE as sub how many rupture should I actually worry about spreading before going into cds? Like first pull priory should I just make sure that mini and knight have rupture then send?

[buoyant birch]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[random comet]

It’s not a matter of number, you just rupture until the mobs are stacked basically however long that takes. No point blasting off when half the mobs are still moving to tank

[lethal lark]

But use Flag first?

[karmic harbor]

Depends on the pull

[random comet]

Probably not FIRST but it’ll be safe to start stacking it up once you know where the tank is stopping. You just don’t wanna rip it too early in case tank takes ages and it drops before your second big sectec

[shell willow]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[fast iron]

ok so my friends took me into a random 11 as a 650 sub

i genuinely have no clue whta im doing

any quick tips/comments on like, main generator/spender etc?

[lilac stag]

Nope. It’s not a fly by the seat of your pants to learn the spec.

Just don’t die or stay dead and get carried.

[devout jackal]

heres the trick

read the guide

spend 1 hour read the guide

anytime a question is asked in here that is explicitly in wowhead or iv guides it should be a 1 hour timeout

including my dumbass questions

[lilac stag]

You forgot something

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[fast iron]

well obviously

i got kidnapped as a 645 character lmao

im reading the wowhead guide between deaths

[empty plume]

shuriken storm, black powder

on aoe

[fast iron]

thats just gonna make people not want to interact with the discord/feel bad about even trying to socialize and learn

[empty plume]

dance shadowstrike / sectech / evis on single target

GL

[fast iron]

thank you nutw i ran sims while i was dead on the floor and saw that black powder was clicked a lot

appreciate

[empty plume]

this spec kinda requires a very specific sequence during big CDs to do good damage

so you will be leeching that dungeon no matter what you do

I suggest using feint + cloak + crimson vial to survive and focusing on that part probably

[fast iron]

yeah that worked fine

well, i was just dying to being undergeared

[empty plume]

650 prob has like no HP

[fast iron]

im not a noob player, im just a noob rogue

yeah i have like 7m

8m my bad

[empty plume]

yeah that's gotta be rough in an 11

[fast iron]

yeah

a bit different from my 714 warrior doing 17s

which is why i asked just a general "whats my spam click abilities" since its super convolutedo n wowhead

anyways, ty, ill go read more

^^

[lilac stag]

It’s not a light up and press it spec at all.

[fast iron]

hows that relevant in any capacity to helping me in comparsion to how useful nut's comments were?

[lilac stag]

warrior roll face on keeb and you’re expecting to do that as sub. GL

[fast iron]

where

did i write

that im expecting to do that?

why are u putting some weird words in my mouth?

[empty plume]

my comments were like, not technically accurate - with the intent to be useful instead of being overly specific

[fast iron]

what is this weird hostile mentality

yeah nut that was exactly what i was looking for

[empty plume]

I just tried to help and assume that if u want detail you'll research later

[fast iron]

just to have a general idea so i can begin with even setting up keybinds

then moving from there to target dummies etc

so i know "ok this is my aoe button" in comparison to my muscle memory

yeah ur absolutely right

[glass rune]

anyone know what % dps 4 set is

[fast iron]

i have wowhead + sims open in the background lol

[lilac stag]

Why do you have sims open?

[fast iron]

because a sim can show me the opener, what my character likes to press etc

why are you just being super negative with zero constructive inputs and CLEARLY zero intent to even try and be helpful?

[lilac stag]

It does not. It specifically says not to treat it as such

[fast iron]

its alright man nut answered my question

im not a noob i know how to treat a sim and what to read from it

im not reading it as a bible

im taking it with a grain of salt

and the sim matches the general concept of what nuts said

the sim clicked black powder a lot in aoe

[empty plume]

it's big

[fast iron]

like genuinely your attitude is just weirdly off putting

[empty plume]

like each 2 and 4set individually are big, I can't remember % off the top of my head but 20-30% ish

combined

[lilac stag]

[fast iron]

"hey guys im a new player id like to hear a quick, GENERAL tip about this spec"

"go read the guide u cant just learn how to play"

ive NEVER even written anything within that train of thought

like i didnt even specify "i wanna jump into it and do nothing"

[lilac stag]

I’m in a 11 how do I play.

[fast iron]

i didnt even compare it to fury

[lilac stag]

Kekw

[fast iron]

"i got kidnapped with my friends into an 11"

are u being dense?

[lilac stag]

Mmhm

[fast iron]

its 2am, i just fresh boosted 80 rogue and asked them if they wanna run a key with me. they said sure and i got lodged into an 11

i even told them im 645 lmao

like ur GENUINELY just being an ass

[lilac stag]

Just stay dead and read if you want to learn

[fast iron]

THATS WHAT I DID

nuts helped me

you didnt

your attitude stunk

[lilac stag]

Literally first piece of advice

[fast iron]

while im still reading wowhead

end of story

jfc

[lilac stag]

Once you digest wowhead. Revisit this command.

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

What is your problem exactly? If you aren't willing to help, and be helpful towards others then bugger off. You don't have to respond to anyone and everyone. Let it go, if you're in a terrible mood then go outside. Hopefully, staff see your attitude because it's not very nice, it's super off-putting and it makes others weary of seeking advice!

[autumn flame]

[honest void]

Rare scath coaching moment?

Lucky

[fast iron]

thank you, exactly my point

[short radish]

[honest void]

Wish he'd coach me

[honest void]

He's memeing

[lilac stag]

I love everyone. Beauty is he doesn’t know your sarcastic Aussie humor.

[short radish]

nobody does

[fast iron]

im not

[honest void]

Not u

[lilac stag]

Excuse me. I do ya roo fucker

[short radish]

❤️

[fast iron]

i know, im saying im not memeing regardless of whether or not fimbul was makin a joke

[empty plume]

I feel like the root here was rogue v warrior racism

[honest void]

I'm picking up the shrimp your laying in ur barbie

[fast iron]

which is weird to begin with

[honest void]

Or something idk I don't speak down under

[empty plume]

"my class is actually hard unlike yours, imagine trying to play without a 4year degree"

[fast iron]

like i just pointed out i play another class and he tweaked out on me

i very much see sub is hard

based on just wowhead alone

which is why i asked for those generalized tips :3

and i appreciate them

[honest void]

It's hard cause bursting 60m makes pp hard

[lilac stag]

the real issue now is we’re distracting the new person from focusing on the guide reading. Back to something important like stat weights or double on use vs passive

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

look mate

honestly you just do have to read the guide

youre not going to do shit ona 645 ilvl char

[fast iron]

and i will

holy

[short radish]

no matter what you do

[fast iron]

how is it possible that

only nutz

got the point

of my questions

[honest void]

You could say

That this

Is

A nutz situation

[fast iron]

there is no intention for me to be strong or know everything, i just wanted to know the most basic premise of my class

[honest void]

[fast iron]

so i'll know like, which abilities i should put on my keybinds

for muscle memory

THATS IT

[short radish]

yeah and the basic premise comes from reading the guide

????

what can we say

[empty plume]

https://tenor.com/view/im-the-best-racer-fox-sports-gif-13188343

[short radish]

that the guide isnt going to say in teh rotation page

[fast iron]

except the guide is giga convoluted and nutz wrote in 2 sentences whta u have to go through 15 pages of reading to figure out

[lilac stag]

We each have “our people”

Doing the lords work

[honest void]

What is convoluted?

[fast iron]

idk maybe im just a warrior brain so i roll my head on my keyboard and cant read

[short radish]

oh okay right i see you want a short summary

hold up

[fast iron]

cheerios ty for the assistance @unreal pawn !

[honest void]

The entire class is just shadow dance rotation

[short radish]

i have a 30 second video

[lusty solar]

Use this Discord for news and API updates, 95% of people here dont know shit

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[short radish]

https://www.twitch.tv/casualaddict_/clip/AdventurousHonestPangolinAliens-A3uX_8k-KaiU7_tJ

[honest void]

The rest comes from playing so u know timings and shit

[short radish]

okay thats enough of me being a bully

sub has a rather high skill floor

before it makes sense

you cant even go pressing things off cooldown when you want

[fast iron]

pointless beating a dead horse

cheerios

[short radish]

if you want to press buttons like that

assi is better

because again

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

there are periods of downtime

[empty plume]

unironically good guide from casualaddict

[short radish]

when you dont want to press buttons even though they are up

[fast iron]

yeah ill watch that as well

[lilac stag]

HE JUST WANTED TO SET UP HIS KEEB IN A 11 FFS

[short radish]

don't watch it. i'm being a dickhead

it's going to confuse you even more

[lilac stag]

everyone stop

[fast iron]

im not going to watch it now

[empty plume]

lol it's a meme clip but accurate

[fast iron]

ive got more important things to do

[short radish]

👍

[tepid trellis]

what in the fuck

[fast iron]

like ask scath if he can summarize the entire wowhead guide with chatgpt and neurolink it to my asshole

maybe that way he can teach me sth

[tepid trellis]

am i reading

[lilac stag]

Warrior typing

[fast iron]

anyways cheerios im off to educate myself!

[short radish]

gl

[fast iron]

ty

[empty plume]

avg class discord conversation

[honest void]

Hf

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/party-on-gif-20744725

[honest void]

Bro why is there a fox sitting by me just looking at me

[lilac stag]

what did it say?

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-america-i-understood-that-reference-look-back-gif-14556485

[honest void]

Idk but it sounded like a slur

[honest void]

https://tenor.com/view/ylvis-what-does-the-fox-say-ring-ding-gif-3508190

Man

We allowed this song to happen

And said nothing

[lilac stag]

we need a tribute to walk over to warrior discord and see the response they get in arms if they got kidnapped

For science

[short radish]

made some great parodies though

[honest void]

Trueing

[lilac stag]

Simpler times

[honest void]

Awww the fox has a boyfriend or girlfriend

[short radish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7G59ojfRc4&list=RDW7G59ojfRc4&start_radio=1&ab_channel=JinnyboyTV

i still watch this sometimes

[honest void]

And now their terrorising the trash in my neighbourhood

[short radish]

sure it's not stealthi in a fox suit?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/fox-and-raccoon-ride-silly-goofy-cute-gif-27677917

[honest void]

Nah he'd be in a raccoon suit

[lilac stag]

Why would a raccoon be in a raccoon suit?

[honest void]

He freaky like that

Don't ask Stealthi what happened in the Raccoon City Police Department

[lilac stag]

Sounds like some serial killer shit wearing a skin suit

[limber folio]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tMHaChxyPqznNZrb?fight=29&type=casts&source=3&view=timeline can someone look at my shitty forge log and maybe see what i might be doing wrong, i feel im doing the opener right - but i just cant get dances to work properly, and/or when to use them

[honest void]

These mfers are now street fighting on the road

Damn these are some cool foxes

[short radish]

look at lorgs

look at when you are pressing flag, look at when top logs are pressing flag

[honest void]

Wait 20 secs ez

[short radish]

tell us what you see

[limber folio]

yeah but like

holding cds zzzz

[short radish]

also probably look at when they are pressing sdance

yup

[tepid trellis]

time yo shit for the adds bro

[honest void]

Well u want to parse nice?

Gotta get on ur knees

[short radish]

welcome to ~~padding ~~ parsing

[limber folio]

and beg

[lilac stag]

Send a dance and then opener in 25 seconds.

[tepid trellis]

BANNED

NAH

[honest void]

Illegal that

[honest void]

Bro is sending on pylons

[limber folio]

yes

[short radish]

had to swap around this meme

[limber folio]

i am

[honest void]

Lynchable behaviour

[short radish]

... by force?

or by choice

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/shame-bell-game-of-thrones-walk-of-atonement-cersei-lannister-gif-16635977892557113898

[limber folio]

so

[honest void]

If by force leave

[short radish]

oh boy

[limber folio]

either we wipe

or i use cds

on the collectors

[honest void]

That's not a u issue tbf

[tepid trellis]

huh?

[short radish]

honestly just wipe

[tepid trellis]

they have fcking 0 health

[limber folio]

idk

maybe i am doing too much collector damage

cause sometimes they dont even lineup

[tepid trellis]

i legit just backstab and auto attack them

[honest void]

Bro I send like one dance

[limber folio]

you dont even dance?

[tepid trellis]

no lol

[limber folio]

bruh

[lilac stag]

Do you know our lords and savior lorrgs?

[limber folio]

i do know about lorrgs

[honest void]

Even then its like 50/50

[short radish]

we enjoy a large serving of backstab soup

[limber folio]

i just dont want to be like

told to go check something

when i could ask someone as well

[short radish]

too bad

go check something

[limber folio]

i have checked lorrgs sure

[honest void]

Tell them to check what spec sub is

[lilac stag]

You’re not even close to what is on lorrgs

[limber folio]

always the sub players who are elitists

smh

[honest void]

Have to be

[limber folio]

yeah i know

[short radish]

tell them we gave you permission to try and compete with the healers on pylon damage

[lilac stag]

May as well play assa at that point. Your job be adds

[tepid trellis]

your casts

[short radish]

^

[honest void]

This like the first season this expansion sub has some clout

[tepid trellis]

mine

[limber folio]

unironically

i dont think we have enough add damage

if i dont play sub

i did play FB last week reclear

[honest void]

Playing DS ass and not being able to get ur mark back is so ass

[lilac stag]

But what add dmg are you doing ?

[limber folio]

0

[honest void]

Even though vanish exists

[limber folio]

well

[honest void]

Damn I used ass twice in that sentence

I'm cooked

[limber folio]

what you do is just you troll and put the DS on one of the tank adds

[lilac stag]

@short radish I do enjoy that we get each others sarcasm.

[limber folio]

or you TIME

the last hit

and dont reapply ds

on the collectors

[tepid trellis]

ehm

[short radish]

me too brotherman ❤️

[honest void]

Yeah but at that point I should just go kms

[tepid trellis]

wth

[honest void]

Too much work

[tepid trellis]

is that

[limber folio]

:-3

[honest void]

The famous b4 dance secret tech

[tepid trellis]

pre sectech

[honest void]

Only the elites knoe

[tepid trellis]

tech goes hard

[short radish]

havent we all done that before

by accident

lets not shame too much here

[lilac stag]

If I ever need protection from giant fucking insects and snakes I’m calling you!

[tepid trellis]

but yeh anyways to do good dmg on Araz

[limber folio]

but also im just wondering stealthi

[honest void]

That's why I said it's famous

[tepid trellis]

you need to time everything for adds

and for the dmg amp

[limber folio]

in terms of my gear-wise

im fine

its just i need to play my dances and cds beter

[short radish]

dw insects and snakes are fine. it's the dropbears you gotta worry about

[limber folio]

better

[honest void]

Shit I've pressed sec tech as my last finisher a couple times

[tepid trellis]

yes you gear is fine

[lilac stag]

This is ultimately why I was askin about lorrgs.

[limber folio]

yeye but at most we're just reclearing anyways

like

[lilac stag]

there’s not really wiggle room for sub cds

[limber folio]

if i actually wanted to i could probably fix my logs maybe

[tepid trellis]

also

change your wep enchants

[honest void]

BTW I got myself the prism today but I need forge to really be able to use it in m+ right?

[limber folio]

whar

[short radish]

gem for speed or avoidance. leech is so overrated

[short radish]

no

[tepid trellis]

sim the stat ones

they will likely show a decent gain over radiant

[limber folio]

i literally am using the stat ones wdym

[honest void]

Wished u said yes ngl

[limber folio]

radiant

[lilac stag]

crit / mastery are better enchants

[limber folio]

is stat

hello

are you

[tepid trellis]

its main stat

im talking

secondaries

[short radish]

i can say whatever you want me to say for gold

[limber folio]

yeah but radiant is main stat

[dusk stone]

am i simming gems correctly on top gear? I select the blue icon (equipped?) and then select the others also "replace existing gems/enchants" and hit find top gear right

[limber folio]

oh

jaja

[honest void]

Careful there

[short radish]

i think high keys forge can really pull ahead

[honest void]

I will cash that

[short radish]

but on lower keys where youre in pug hell

prism + passive is better

[lilac stag]

Radiant went 📉

[limber folio]

wait wtf

[short radish]

make sure you also select the other gems

[lilac stag]

Crit Mastery 📈

[limber folio]

people arent using radiant

[lilac stag]

No

[limber folio]

i even see on whispyrs guide

[lilac stag]

lol

[limber folio]

hes using councils guile

😭

[tepid trellis]

nope

[honest void]

Fair

[limber folio]

ive just been using radiant this whole time

[tepid trellis]

secondaries are better

[honest void]

So u just don't use prism till 2nd cds

Can't macro that shit then I guess

[limber folio]

so

i guess im using one each then

one stonebound

and one council

[short radish]

because if youre not getting BIG pull every time your cds are up. your whatever pulls inbetween without flag are going to suck more

[tepid trellis]

sim yo self

[short radish]

and honestly we do ddecent damage out of flag

[tepid trellis]

im using 2x vers

[lilac stag]

I do enjoy multiple suggestions being needed for it to be understood. Hahaha

[limber folio]

ah

i think i prolly need the vers tho

im quite crit stacked

even with the DB ring

[lilac stag]

crit mastery better if you’re playing assa too

Just depends how rich you are

[late bobcat]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[limber folio]

i have 4m

[tepid trellis]

[limber folio]

gold on me

[lilac stag]

Or how poor you are

[limber folio]

its fine

[dusk stone]

that's what i've been doing yeah. I have a 176 vers gem equipped atm and no way thats optional but so far it hasn't simmed any higher options so i am wondering if i'm doing something wrong

[short radish]

i've been unironically doing stat weight sims

[limber folio]

but

[lilac stag]

yeah go versa

[short radish]

just to see how bad things are

[limber folio]

im about spend like 2,5m

on tokens

[short radish]

with main stat

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/expand-on-that-seth-meyers-late-night-with-seth-meyers-tell-me-more-explain-gif-20031393

[short radish]

link sim

[dusk stone]

waiting for it to get done atm but will do

[short radish]

well its just good to visualise how low prio main stat is

and also to target which gems to sim for

which ultimately doesnt matter anyway

[lilac stag]

What’s your mh wdps at?

Vs main stat

[limber folio]

is this you resimming my gear?

or your own

[tepid trellis]

mine

[limber folio]

wait is that the plexus or forge ring you got

[tepid trellis]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e2cdSUY8UdEAauBrZkuw7W

[frail kindle]

yo wth you send 50k more than me

[lilac stag]

what does your assa sim hit now?

[tepid trellis]

dunno

havent simmed assa since week 2

[frail kindle]

based

[limber folio]

i just simmed like

[lilac stag]

curious for giggles

[limber folio]

about the same as stealthi

on FB

[tepid trellis]

if id have to guess

like 400k more

than i do on sub

[honest void]

Ahhh makes semse

[limber folio]

well

you have forge and prism

[lilac stag]

that’s kinda where I’m at, but my sub sim smol. 4.75

[short radish]

big

[limber folio]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ento5aJahoFvNSfViGmARv

[short radish]

i need myth track weap

[limber folio]

nvm i simmed 5.1

[short radish]

but we didnt reclear this week

[tepid trellis]

i have 2x loomithar

[short radish]

[dusk stone]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/raQd8AZLgADsrSiBFFN8id

[tepid trellis]

and 1x nexus king

[limber folio]

ok rich guy

[short radish]

i have loomi bow instead

[lilac stag]

Still running focusing?

[tepid trellis]

ascendance

better dmg wise early season

when it comes to crafting and stuff

[dusk stone]

its actually trying to not use the blasphemite lol

[lilac stag]

ahh. I need to got dawn on wrists apparently when I recraft.

[limber folio]

honestly

[lilac stag]

I need more crit in general

[limber folio]

almost thinking about recrafting writhing armor banding away

[short radish]

hmmm doesnt look that wack

[limber folio]

and crafting wrists

with it

instead

[short radish]

guess stats really dont matter or something

[lilac stag]

Ilvl is king minus the haste joker

[kind river]

weaponmaster better than first dance for forgeweaver M I guess?

[dusk stone]

yeah im legit confused because there's no way a 176 vers gem is correct right?

[kind river]

since your first dance on that boss isn't even using flag

[lilac stag]

It’s still better than the 15 combo points you’ll get from WM

[kind river]

even when it procs during the burn phases?

[short radish]

even if WM pulls ahead after 7 minutes. i'm still ru nning TFD on a 10 min fight

[lilac stag]

WM is absolute garbage

[short radish]

WM is almost as useless as perforated veins

[kind river]

I mean sure, I never said it was good...but you are literally sabotaging your first dance

[tepid trellis]

15 was the number eleem got from a 10min fight lmfao

[kind river]

you don't get flag with it

on forgeweaver

[short radish]

so?

you get more cdr

from that

leading into your flag

leading into future dances

[lilac stag]

I try not to spread misinformation. Thanks for verifying.

[short radish]

i do

[tepid trellis]

wm just does fuck all

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/i-know-star-wars-han-solo-gif-14764428

[short radish]

WM is a rounding error

[tepid trellis]

does work with premed

doesent flurry

[limber folio]

ok but like

[tepid trellis]

so whats the fucking point

[limber folio]

im trying to understand the uh

"saved" cp

i forget whatever the fuck its called

if i have a full bar

[lilac stag]

The point is to drive us nuts in discord

[tepid trellis]

shadow techniques?

[limber folio]

yeah whatever

so i just shuriken

if its full?

[tepid trellis]

wat?

[limber folio]

no but like

[short radish]

we put CP in the bank so then it generates interest and when we withdraw it in the future for our big burst, we have even more CP to spend

[limber folio]

i have sometimes

had a full bar been wasted

or not just sometimes

feels like a lot

[lilac stag]

huh

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tepid trellis]

shadow tech only refunds if you have 7 or more stacks and you press a finisher while symbols is up

[kind river]

I'm not sure this talent choice is as impactful as you are selling it

there are top logs with both

[tepid trellis]

and there is a wa that will give you a sound when it procs

[kind river]

it almost seems like my choice is irrelevant

on this boss

[tepid trellis]

(doesent always work on coup tho)

[limber folio]

like

the thing is

[short radish]

it is

[tepid trellis]

kinda

[limber folio]

either

[tepid trellis]

it horse shit vs cow shit

basically

both shit

[limber folio]

im overlapping and wasting my full bar of shadow technique

[short radish]

but i will not sit here and listen to tfd slander

[limber folio]

cause

i proc it

but since it kind of delays

[kind river]

I'm not slandering first dance in a general sense

[limber folio]

i use a shadowstrike

[lilac stag]

Rng gonna rng. WM is totally useless. TFD gets you some use. Play whatever makes your heart happy.

[kind river]

I was speaking specifically about this boss, ONLY

[limber folio]

so it wastes the whole bar

[kind river]

and no other boss

[tepid trellis]

if it comes in dalyed

delayed*

its on a coup cast

[limber folio]

prolly idk

[tepid trellis]

which you can do nothing about

[limber folio]

imma try to get like

[tepid trellis]

apart from waiting out the global

[limber folio]

footage next reclear

[short radish]

horse shit is better than cow shit. it's easier to transport because it's not nearly as moist

[limber folio]

or i guess you get what im meaning

wait

i could just get footage

from nexus prog

[lilac stag]

And slamming your keeb against the wall

[tepid trellis]

wrong, cow shit dries up very quickly and can even be used as frisbees

[short radish]

[jagged rover]

I played WM on araz because I'm delaying cds anyway, but also it really doesn't matter. Its usually w/e I happen to have in my talents when I get to the fight and swap back from soul hunter talents

[short radish]

maybe im more bias towards horse shit because that's the one we usually get

harder to find cow shit

[jagged rover]

I also sent cds on our 2nd kill on the collector and while it made the 2nd collector phase really fast and smooth, I did fuck all to the boss at the end

and it died fast enough I didn't get another set of cds

[limber folio]

ytou know what

im tired

its 3am

maybe its time for bed

[lilac stag]

Steak taste better than horse meat. Therefore cow shit must be better.

[short radish]

[tepid trellis]

here i just press coup, as you can see no cp refund

0.2 left on the my coup global

bang

cps

are back

shit game

[lilac stag]

not wrong

[jagged rover]

yep, shits annoying. And then you already buffered a shadowstrike half the time that happens

[short radish]

its a magic trick or something

[lilac stag]

wtb a dev

[tepid trellis]

i just track the coup global now so i dont get caught

cuz i dont always look at my cps when i play

[jagged rover]

also learned that the deathmark/kingsbane 4pc bug on assassination is still a thing, shit kept happening last night on our reclear on frac and moth

[tepid trellis]

too many hours in the game is i pretty much know my cp income

[jagged rover]

just going to start playing sub on those

shit class

[kind river]

underwhelming balance patch, BM overbuffed

no bugs fixed

fury has a beneficial bug giving it a lot of dps as well

[kind river]

or a change they made on purpose and didn't document

[short radish]

affi is getting the sub rogue treatment of last tier

nerf'd 3% because old tier too strong or something at the start of patch

and forgotten until half way through turbo boost

[jagged rover]

can't wait for turbo boost, so I can keep falling even farther behind. Eventually we'll have enough gear that kills will be back to a good kill time and I can parse again

[short radish]

as is tradition

[lilac stag]

History of the rogue part 3 TWW

[deft rain]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[fleet wharf]

wait wtf aug is ahead of dev?

[random comet]

Unheard of

[late bobcat]

Anyone hvae a 'best' recommended sub guide for m+, the wowhead guide I find isnt the best

[wicked urchin]

forgot to prism first set rip

gonna lock in purple

[fast iron]

it was a bug hotfix, so its intended

also, ST rotation is fun despite my low ilvl

need 4p 😛

[lilac stag]

What is the issue with it. All three are good. Eleem (IV) may have different insights for m+

[lucid jackal]

Well theres more to this game than fractillus DPS

[fast iron]

target dummy sim 1.3
damage i did 1.2
feelsgood

now to just muscle memory this bih

[tepid trellis]

good shit, keep it up

[fast iron]

now to practice 5tar

rinse repeat

[misty condor]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[swift tinsel]

do I abandon wow and become a BL4 main a week before we start mythic

[slate lantern]

waiting for that review embargo to lift

[swift tinsel]

I know I'm gonna get at least a few hundred hours out of it lol

[lilac stag]

With less bugs

[swift tinsel]

it is a borderlands game so it's a gamble if it has less

expecting some kind of patch in the first couple days lol

[slate lantern]

yeah im just worried about performance

[swift tinsel]

its about time for me to upgrade my gpu anyways

[sullen hare]

I'll pick it up when it's on sale whenever that happens

[swift tinsel]

I've got a Ryzen 9 which should be able to handle it

[slate lantern]

my destiny buddies and i have been looking for our new game since destiny got ruined (waited too long imo) so def was thinking of bl4

[swift tinsel]

since its probs cpu-heavier anyways

[swift tinsel]

I have a few friends that were really turned off by the latest content from destiny 2, sounds like its pretty rough

[heady drum]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[high eagle]

How do we feel about salhadaar's folly neck off nexus king?

would that tip the mastery too far?

[warm marlin]

not if you can reallocate

[high eagle]

yea im just curious if ya got alpha gate ring off first boss and that neck. how to allocate well. guess can recraft a few pieces

think the options to get vers run out. maybe belt is a good option. the BoE vers belt

that neck is ALOT of mastery tho 👀

[keen hare]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[magic coral]

is there any reason why we woulden't enter a raid encounter with 4 stacks of unseen blade and 6 combo points supercharged before pull?

[keen hare]

supercharge resets to 2

what does that first macro do??

[tepid trellis]

binds Tea to dance and makes it so you cannot spam tea charges

[tepid trellis]

unseen resets on pull in raids and supercharge resets to 2

[tribal blade]

lost roll for prism

i'm gonna kms

[icy mulch]

stealthi

do you know if you use secret tech on the masses in p1 dimmy

does it cleave the boss

[tulip token]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[warm marlin]

yes, sectecing adds near a large boss hitbox will always cleave more

[icy mulch]

good comms

[warm marlin]

if you sectec the back add it probably wont

didnt check that one i just assumed it wouldnt

[icy mulch]

I ain't hitting the back add

aint no way

[warm marlin]

ours wont die without it

[winged harbor]

how much vers do i want

[lucid jackal]

I changed my mind maybe dimensius still has hands

Watching these guilds

[cyan cobalt]

its just p3 left tbh, rest of the fight i a nothingburger

[short radish]

we decided to extend on nexus to try make HoF and our mage decided to channel arcane missiles into the boss while ghosts were coming up

multiple times

[cyan cobalt]

sadge extendo

[raven mortar]

Hello, I recently started playing subtlety, was playing sin before, i am having trouble finding a guide like whispyr did on sin

can you help me with that

[magic coral]

does entering a raid encounter reset netherprism stacks as well?

[short radish]

yes

[magic coral]

makes sense

[raven mortar]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[astral axle]

wait did someone hate on tfd?

tfd owns

[viscid mulch]

If I have Nether prisim and lily do i send lily with shadow blades and use prisim in between when I can? or is double on use not great?

[warm marlin]

Cmon man

so toxic

[magic coral]

double on use is great, you start encounters using lily then when your at 18 stacks around 3 mins in you use prism

[viscid mulch]

Does that not desync lily and Shadowblades then at 3min? or does that matter?

[magic coral]

netherprism is gigaburst, we just fill in with lily or other on use trinks. not too sure about araz, but i have lily and prism as well, thats what im noticing.

[woven ruin]

can i cloak ghosts on saladking?

[magic coral]

it doesn't desync, coutn on using lily on the rip, then again at 1:30 then at 3:00 prism, then at 4:30 back to lily

[viscid mulch]

Okay i guess it doesnt dsync you are right, i just skip a use of lily?

[magic coral]

correct

[chrome palm]

that p3 post burn nexus king damage goes crazy

killed before prism

[warm marlin]

Prism passive users win again

[chrome palm]

utter doom when i realized i had to send my prism on shadow dance

hate mages

[warm marlin]

Did you not get autumn?

[high void]

does sectech snapshot the buffs when it is pressed or when the damage goes through? it seemed like the damage popped a bit after i press the button

[chrome palm]

no i think ours uses it himself

[left ledge]

You just need one autumn

If you get first one at like 1 min you should be fine

And then they should be fine too

[edgy zenith]

This spec is so RNG it’s crazy

Doing good damage on Forgeweaver is literally, “did I proc unseen blade enough to get coup ready for first flag”

If no, gg

If yes, blast off

[desert horizon]

anyone know what sub wants as its third craft im just holding onto my spark have weapon and bracers crafted for embelishments

[glass rune]

how does unseen blade work? if i hit a target dummy with 4 backstabs i dont get coup de grace so im confused

[ripe smelt]

what is the best way to spread my find weakness's quicker? any advice im j spamming shuriken for it

[oblique burrow]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[queen kraken]

It got a cd so u build it over time and sectec gives Ur Next two ss or bs the ability to proc unseen regardless of cd

[icy mulch]

this is our first night of real pulls and the only hard part of p1 is that sequence between 1:30-1:50

once thats consistent its waltzing into p2

[hushed roost]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[scenic plover]

Whispyr just build diff

[raven mortar]

Im getting my hand on ST rotation, but aoe is so confusing :p

[short radish]

black powder on 4 targets

thats the only diff

spread rupture when not in dance

[frigid wyvern]

so no BP on Soul Hunters?

[raven mortar]

I am doing like 7m avg on 5 dummis, probably because my versa is too low

still got the sin items rolling lol

[brisk creek]

when do u guys use shuriken tornado? inside dance or outside

and do u BP or rupture spread?

[stoic steppe]

7+ targets, no?

[short radish]

@swift tinsel care to chime in?

[crisp lion]

What changed that we bp at 4 now?

[short radish]

bp damage went up at the start of the season

nimble flurry went down (i think maybe)

[tacit latch]

hey! what sub macros do u use?

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short radish]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[short radish]

!coldblood

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[shrewd lantern]

mythic prism

[tight fjord]

!funnel

[shrewd lantern]

wrong spec

[short radish]

[shrewd lantern]

people think this is legion/bfa

where this spec had funnel

[short radish]

shuriken tornado my beloved

[shrewd lantern]

tornado can die in a hole

[short radish]

or shadowlands (kill me)

[tall girder]

Wooo fimb

[shrewd lantern]

ngl i was about to

quit playing rogue

[short radish]

wait why did i write shuriken tornado

[tall girder]

Funnel is fake

[short radish]

i meant shuriken combo

[shrewd lantern]

if i had to play another season of

[short radish]

woooooo jontic

[shrewd lantern]

sl s4 sub

[tall girder]

I will be black powdering on forgeweaver last phase

[short radish]

i still have traumatic memories of "funneling" into the golems in hoa

meanwhile im still doing less damage to them vs the warlock pressing RoF

[short radish]

based

[shrewd lantern]

real

FUCK LOCKS

[short radish]

FUCK WARLOCKS

[shrewd lantern]

i'd bp on last phase but

[tall girder]

Yea fuck Warlocks

[shrewd lantern]

it died right after my coup

[tall girder]

Fimb don’t snitch

[short radish]

[shrewd lantern]

i do bp before transition

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[shrewd lantern]

rl did say kill adds

so im right

[short radish]

adds need to die

[tall girder]

I think I will get 40% haste surely that makes sub really strong

[short radish]

[shrewd lantern]

can we return to this spec's peak

[tall girder]

I’m currently at 2% I’m halfway there

Dfa gaming

[shrewd lantern]

yeeee

love dfa instant starting avatar p3

while boss is full hp

[tall girder]

I didn’t start playing rogue till the end of legion

[shrewd lantern]

I mean, you could play sub in antorus

you just needed cringe 2p 2p

the real tech was lobbing shuriken toss and stepping boss on pull

[tall girder]

Like I mean like a week before bfa pre patch

[shrewd lantern]

would usually give you concordance

for your burst

[tight fjord]

!plater

!addons

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[scenic plover]

Aoe rota is basically just the same

Not sure what the loss is for not using black powder but you still do aoe even without it

[woeful barn]

Oh how I miss DFA and mantle with Shuriken cape

[worthy harbor]

How many targets is it Worth to rupture in aoe? An is it a dps gain to rupture packs before Sending full cds?

[tender patrol]

Rupture until everything is stacked

[vale pine]

Always, but only if targets don't die instantly. Also don't do so during cooldowns

[glacial stirrup]

So we shadow strike in dance regardless of target count and bp 4+ and coup when up ?

[ornate lake]

Yes

[finite sequoia]

is it advised to pop your third dance right after the first two to take advantage of flawless form? same during minis, two dances in a row better than spacing them out?

[fair cloak]

3th boss hc

My tanks take boss feom adds when they spawn

And instantly run to other carnisters

What to do

[tender patrol]

Tell them to Watch a Guide for the fight

[jade oasis]

before i get ritual forge netherprism what trinkets should i be running and how optimal r they?

trying to regear sub rn and it’s been rough

[west tide]

antenna and an on use like lily

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[glacial stirrup]

only exception is storm between coups

[vale pine]

ritual forge or lily for on use
and in the 2nd slot one of the many passive ones like antena, sulforium, etc

it is also in the pins ^^

tho i would not suggest double on use without prism

prism + forge is probably the only realy good combination for it

[jade oasis]

oh i was abt to just ask that

i’ve seen a lot run prism forge

but im confused on like what’d you’d macro it to or how you’d use them

[vale pine]

ideally

nothing

or well

you can macro it to blades

but have a seperate blades macro

for the first and 2nd trinket

[jade oasis]

ahhh

[vale pine]

the problem is, you need to control the trinket use

[cinder steppe]

!log

[vale pine]

so you want to be able to alter betweeen the use

so forge -> prism -> forge -> prism ...

and you can't rly do that with one macro well

[jade oasis]

yeah true bc netherprism is weird with its cd

i feel like im reverse engineering my brain to learn this spec

it feels so weird

[cinder steppe]

fuu help me improve if u have time 🤓

[haughty mural]

Id suggest you to stay away from double on-use till you’re more comfortable with the spec

My humble opinion

[jade oasis]

i mean with my luck

i don’t have a choice

lol

i haven’t gotten a single raid drop

that’s a lie

boots from void hunters

only

[haughty mural]

Atleast something 😄

[jade oasis]

last time i did void hunters we got 3 tank trinkets

[vale pine]

we haven't had netherprism drop in heroic at all

::/